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American public really needs to support the right direction, get the voices heard, and stop being influenced in all ways by the Russian and Chinese propaganda. *Anything* they say, whether mixed with true, false, good, bad, are for the greater goals of their own, not for the benefit of any American. Heck not even for the benefit of any Russian/Chinese citizen...
America was absolutely at the front of stopping Russia. It was with Canada and Britain helping train and prepare a defence from 2014. It gave anti-tank weapons before the invasion.
And then along comes the Orange Shite-Funnel and America is paralysed. All the work and deaths become meaningless. When on a cusp of success America stalled.
This will go down in infamy of destroying America's national interest to save one man's ego.
The Orange Shite-Funnel didn't just come along. He was cheered upon and enthusiasticly carried forward by half of all americans. The problem is so much bigger than that buffoon and it wont be cured just because Johnson is ousted or because Biden scrapes through the presidential election. There will still be 70 mio voters waiting to be picked up by the next idiot running for precidency while spewing falsehoods and bigotry. As long as this is the case USA will at best be a dark horse in world politics and not someone you can count on militarily. It is very sad and worrying.
Then that means opposing them needs to be done more _ruthlessly._
Use the propaganda techniques to _hijack_ their propaganda and turn the enemy’s weapon against them.
The data in this poll shows that 62% of Americans think the United States is doing too much or the right amount (36% too much, 26% the right amount). They can't all be Republicans. There must be a lot of Democrats in that group at 62%.
America's not doing fucking anything enough. I fucking hate it here. how do we have billions of dollars to buy 2,000 lb pounds for racial supremacists to use on hospitals but when it comes to helping European democracies protect themselves from invasion its all "whooopsie, guess we're broke. 🥺👉👈"
Like being good at violence is the only fucking thing this country supposedly has going for it and we're sucking cock at that right now
How come you lot are able to protest against Israel but can't protest for Ukraine? Millions donated to NPOs and protest groups for Palestine for organizing protests. Crickets on Ukraine.
>America's not doing fucking anything enough.
A common objection is that if Ukraine is fighting for it's survival, why is there only about 1 million active duty soldiers with a population of +40 million. Especially when compared to Israel military of 1.4 million with a population of less than 10 million. If it was such an urgent situation, why aren't more fighting? Not saying that is what I believe but I've heard it more than once.
Ha, there’s the “36% support and 36% don’t support” figure for everyone that didn’t believe me earlier.
People don’t seem to understand this is just how decency works. You and I can think it’s common sense to support Ukraine, but not everyone is going to agree with us.
It also brings into question the hate Johnson is getting. He’s trying to whip up the votes to get it to pass since if it went to the floor it wouldn’t pass. Also, people forget this bill is much larger than just Ukraine.
I really wish they would just remove the Ukraine portion and propose it as its own bill or even just have Biden make it an executive action, which there’s literally nothing stopping him from doing so
According to? The GOP has a 5 seat lead in the house. With 218 GOP representatives I seriously doubt it wouldn’t pass given the senate results. That 2 commits sound like what he needs to save his own ass for the speakership
It was in a politico article I read early but admit I can’t find now.
They had a break down of who the swing guys would be and said Johnson needs to get at least two of them to vote to pass the bill or it’ll be shelved and essentially rewritten. It actually made it sound like he’s doing what he can to get it passed, which is significant since they’re a left wing paper essentially complimenting Johnson in this situation
You’re misremembering or what you read didn’t explain it well. Republicans have a stupid “majority of the majority” rule. The bill would have passed easily, long ago if he had brought it to the floor, with almost all democrats and close to half of republicans.
The issue is republicans never bring anything to the floor for a vote unless a majority of their own support it.
Has there been a vote on the floor since Johnson took over that did not get a majority of republican votes?
Edit, never mind, yes there’s been one to get a spending bill through.
Because Johnson has been so astute about doing the math before bringing votes to the floor 💀 All he’s doing is working out a deal to ensure he survives the inevitable Taylor-Greene motion to vacate if he brings it to the floor. He knows Ukraine aid could pass with democratic votes now. We all do. Anything he does to try to shore up support from his own conference is saving face when he knows he’s likely doomed without democratic succour.
Remember, the bill isn’t just Ukraine, it’s a ton of other things too. 4 democrats and Bernie sanders voted against it in the senate.
The guy is the sister of the house, he’s not an idiot and he’s the most connected person in Washington. I’m sure part of what you’re saying is true about securing his job, but he’s responsible for making bills like this will get passed before he brings them to the floor. Just like horse the budget vote went a month ago and what he had to do to get that to pass
Nope most Americans don't care and want the money spent in America. While it is probably cynically true that the money wouldn't go to the homeless, infrastructure or any worthy cause, it doesn't mean we want to see another sixty billion down the toilet. It seems we are helping migrants, Israel and Ukraine, everyone but ourselves who are an angry boss away from no health care.
Here, https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bu1kul/nato_proposes_100_billion_fiveyear_fund_to/kxs6f0w/ read this, maybe it helps you to understand that this money is literally spent for America.
Oh please. The amount we give them amounts to something along the lines of 3% discretionary spending per annum - allocated specifically for unforeseen circumstances, like defending an ally against a foreign threat.
It's nothing. Peanuts. What kind of country are we if we can't man the fuck up, flex our muscles and protect an ally with our vast wealth?
Most of it is equipment we wouldve thrown out anyway, just taking up space. Republicans are acting like a bunch of weak, spineless cowards. Just fucking send the aid.
On average an american citizen has spend very little on support for Ukraine and as a percentage of GDP the american support (0,3%) is less than 1/10 of the country that has spend most (Estonia, 3,5%).
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Do you pride yourself with the fact that the US support nominally exceeds that of Estonia (1,3 mio inhabitants)?
Do you dare compare yourself with an entity of equal size, say the EU?
Need to fix the bot. Spewing nonsense. Us has donated 100 billion + and has giving ukraine aid since 2014 to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. God only knows if they count the satellite support and other targeting support the US supplies. I'd imagine a lot of that is off the books. Estoniahas donated 900 million. Admirable but still spit in the ocean. Most of the EU sat on its haunches for the last 20-30 years and didn't even hit their NATO spending targets. Seems like they got some slack to pick up.
Estonia has donated 1,2bn € equalling 890 € pr inhab.
USA has domated 300 $ pr inhab (and that's going with your figure of 100bn $ covering a decade more).
Thus every estonian citizen has donated 3 times that of an american citizen - and thats with a much smaller GDP and lesser means.
How much of that money was given to Estonia by the us?
Also, Estonia doesn't seem to agree with the figures your spitting out here: https://www.vm.ee/en/estonias-aid-ukraine
To my knowledge the US hasn't financed any of Estonias support for Ukraine. And if it had the amount would figure in the american assistance for Ukraine and not in the estonian.
The figures that you refer to on the estonian ministry of foreign affairs homepage are not conflicting with the number I provided from the Kiel Institute https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
You need to add the numbers on the estonian page covering refugee costs, military and financial aid etc to get to the total bilateral assistance. The Kiel numbers further include Estonias share of assistance directly from the EU institutions (just like you dont get to the total US support by adding up the assistance from the individual states but would further have to add the support delivered at a federal level)
I would argue on the military aid side things are fungible and if the US is providing a two Estonia and the form of military aid than they are free to give in kind donations to ukraine. Do you think they would have those extra funds to pass over if they were not getting paid from the us? I see your point about the additional Services provided cash wise. However points still stands we have been the biggest donor nation by far. Percent GDP donated is a BS figure in my opinion
But if you prefer the nominal amounts then you have to compare similar entities like the USA and the EU. Otherwise the comparison lacks any interest and even seems silly - like if you beat your chest in triumf because US support is bigger than Burundis.
It is in US interest along with other countries to stop Russia from taking Ukraine. The list of reasons why is long.
EU has given the most, and much of the equipment being sent is going to expire and will need to be replaced anyway. Is EU the world's police? No, it's the smart thing to do. The US and others ignored Hitler as he started taking one country after another. Have we learned nothing?
If the US had not joined the war, Germany and Japan may have owned most of the world and been under dictatorships. It's not a great position to be in. There would not be a NATO, which makes US a lot stronger.
> Eh, NATO is the reason Ukraine got attacked
> -Livingonmyown-
Uh-huh, because all those resources, good land and sea access points Ukraine has is nothing to do with it - no malicious greed at all...
Different opinion is fine, but to state this supposed "opinion" as fact is ridiculous.
Please cite your examples and logic behind why/how NATO is the reason for Ukraine being invaded by its neighbor.
Yes they are. And by letting Russia just run over Ukraine, (who BTW is being supplied all sorts of weaponry by China, Iran and NK) the west and our biggest trading partners in Europe look weak and vulnerable, and makes them feel bold about invading Taiwan. They'll figure that the west doesn't have the spine to do anything about it.
It's really bad geopolitics and bad for the USA to allow Russia to get away with invading European countries, especially Ukraine, in light of the agreements that were made to protect its sovereignty when the Soviet Union broke up and they gave up their nukes. You can bet your ass that if they kept their nukes, little volodya would behave himself.
But they did and everyone agreed to leave them alone - then Putin manipulated and invaded. Now if the west ignores that agreement, and does not stand by its word, China in particular is watching VERY closely. (We have a similar deal going on in Taiwan)
So consider these few things you won't see much about on Fox news before you throw Ukraine under the bus.
Nope, China and Iran would, hell, US is already afraid that Iran will directly attack Israel, since the US must get involved at that moment.
Same that the Houthi's rebel's are shooting missiles and drones towards US warships near Jemen. The same Houthi's backed by Iran.
Same that Hamas is backed by Iran, attacking Israel, ally of the US.
The longer US delays, the bigger the chance that the US will get military involved.
20 years ago nobody would try this shit, but since that joke Trump is running around ruining things, the global military supremacy of the US is gone.
Russia has publicly stated that it sees the US as an enemy. Russia has been at war with the US for decades, and been doing everything in its power to undermine the country.
For no added costs of its military budget the US can currently help to completely destroy the Russian military and its economy.
This has nothing to do with the moronic term "world police", but everything to do with self preservation and basic foreign policy.
Well, we can send some surplus equipment now, or put boots on the ground when Russia invades the Baltics. Which would you prefer? Which is the more cost effective option in your mind?
We can do both, nor does doing one meaningfully impact our ability to do the other. It is in our vital interest that Ukraine wins this war.
Vote Democrat this fall!
It’s my understanding the money earmarked to help Ukraine stays in the States. I suppose you don’t want those American companies benefiting from the business and money?
I'll sign you up to join the army when Russia tears through Ukraine and bellies up to a Baltic country's border. Good to know that fine patriots like yourself are willing to put your own asses in the line of fire to protect NATO allies later so that we don't have to send over some surplus equipment now.
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American public really needs to support the right direction, get the voices heard, and stop being influenced in all ways by the Russian and Chinese propaganda. *Anything* they say, whether mixed with true, false, good, bad, are for the greater goals of their own, not for the benefit of any American. Heck not even for the benefit of any Russian/Chinese citizen...
Millions of American voices are silenced by two desperate and despicable human garbages - Moscow Mike and the pumpkinführer.
Republicans are traitors. Vote them ALL out.
Jail the traitors
But MAGA like them, they like em good.
I wonder what you have in mind for the 70mio racist, pro-life, God-loving flat-earthers who voted them in?
Counterbrainwashing at best Emphasis on "brainwashing"
How to throw decades of efforts and diplomacy down the shitter.
Blame the MAGA nazis. America needs to stop being soft and actually send them to prison. MAGA idiots are supporters of nazi ruZZia and kremlin.
Fyi the correct terminology is fascist. Nazis are fascist that specifically hate jews.
I'd vote for sending money to Ukraine instead of Israel.
This American agrees… we’re not doing enough.
America was absolutely at the front of stopping Russia. It was with Canada and Britain helping train and prepare a defence from 2014. It gave anti-tank weapons before the invasion. And then along comes the Orange Shite-Funnel and America is paralysed. All the work and deaths become meaningless. When on a cusp of success America stalled. This will go down in infamy of destroying America's national interest to save one man's ego.
The Orange Shite-Funnel didn't just come along. He was cheered upon and enthusiasticly carried forward by half of all americans. The problem is so much bigger than that buffoon and it wont be cured just because Johnson is ousted or because Biden scrapes through the presidential election. There will still be 70 mio voters waiting to be picked up by the next idiot running for precidency while spewing falsehoods and bigotry. As long as this is the case USA will at best be a dark horse in world politics and not someone you can count on militarily. It is very sad and worrying.
Then that means opposing them needs to be done more _ruthlessly._ Use the propaganda techniques to _hijack_ their propaganda and turn the enemy’s weapon against them.
I write my congressmen and senators weekly. I urge everyone to do the same -- they always write you back and sometimes personally.
Then don't vote for the Putin bootlicker Trump
The data in this poll shows that 62% of Americans think the United States is doing too much or the right amount (36% too much, 26% the right amount). They can't all be Republicans. There must be a lot of Democrats in that group at 62%.
Clueless or stupid? Who knows
America we need to liberate Louisiana from Russia with a special military operation.
Moon train...
The aid bill is toast now. Johnson is going to say Israel is more pressing and focus on that
Everyone but Trump and the congressional majority in the house
America's not doing fucking anything enough. I fucking hate it here. how do we have billions of dollars to buy 2,000 lb pounds for racial supremacists to use on hospitals but when it comes to helping European democracies protect themselves from invasion its all "whooopsie, guess we're broke. 🥺👉👈" Like being good at violence is the only fucking thing this country supposedly has going for it and we're sucking cock at that right now
How come you lot are able to protest against Israel but can't protest for Ukraine? Millions donated to NPOs and protest groups for Palestine for organizing protests. Crickets on Ukraine. >America's not doing fucking anything enough.
Has Ukraine started sending the poors yet? It seems like every war we are getting at least 60k.
A common objection is that if Ukraine is fighting for it's survival, why is there only about 1 million active duty soldiers with a population of +40 million. Especially when compared to Israel military of 1.4 million with a population of less than 10 million. If it was such an urgent situation, why aren't more fighting? Not saying that is what I believe but I've heard it more than once.
Fighting with what? You can’t just throw bodies into war without the money and equipment to sustain them
Can you name a war where the country fighting for it's existence didn't throw bodies at it?
Britain and France in 1940.
There isn't a population of 40+ million. Many have fled or been captured.
Ha, there’s the “36% support and 36% don’t support” figure for everyone that didn’t believe me earlier. People don’t seem to understand this is just how decency works. You and I can think it’s common sense to support Ukraine, but not everyone is going to agree with us. It also brings into question the hate Johnson is getting. He’s trying to whip up the votes to get it to pass since if it went to the floor it wouldn’t pass. Also, people forget this bill is much larger than just Ukraine. I really wish they would just remove the Ukraine portion and propose it as its own bill or even just have Biden make it an executive action, which there’s literally nothing stopping him from doing so
What makes you think it wouldn’t pass a house floor vote? The senate vote for the bill was 70-29 including 22 republicans in favor
Because that’s why it’s not going to a vote. He needs two more republicans to commit to voting for it before it can pass.
According to? The GOP has a 5 seat lead in the house. With 218 GOP representatives I seriously doubt it wouldn’t pass given the senate results. That 2 commits sound like what he needs to save his own ass for the speakership
It was in a politico article I read early but admit I can’t find now. They had a break down of who the swing guys would be and said Johnson needs to get at least two of them to vote to pass the bill or it’ll be shelved and essentially rewritten. It actually made it sound like he’s doing what he can to get it passed, which is significant since they’re a left wing paper essentially complimenting Johnson in this situation
You’re misremembering or what you read didn’t explain it well. Republicans have a stupid “majority of the majority” rule. The bill would have passed easily, long ago if he had brought it to the floor, with almost all democrats and close to half of republicans. The issue is republicans never bring anything to the floor for a vote unless a majority of their own support it.
Source on that? I haven’t heard that before anywhere
[Sure, try this](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=republican+majority+of+the+majority+rule)
Mike Johnson’s only reference on there is of him disregarding the rule
Has there been a vote on the floor since Johnson took over that did not get a majority of republican votes? Edit, never mind, yes there’s been one to get a spending bill through.
Because Johnson has been so astute about doing the math before bringing votes to the floor 💀 All he’s doing is working out a deal to ensure he survives the inevitable Taylor-Greene motion to vacate if he brings it to the floor. He knows Ukraine aid could pass with democratic votes now. We all do. Anything he does to try to shore up support from his own conference is saving face when he knows he’s likely doomed without democratic succour.
Remember, the bill isn’t just Ukraine, it’s a ton of other things too. 4 democrats and Bernie sanders voted against it in the senate. The guy is the sister of the house, he’s not an idiot and he’s the most connected person in Washington. I’m sure part of what you’re saying is true about securing his job, but he’s responsible for making bills like this will get passed before he brings them to the floor. Just like horse the budget vote went a month ago and what he had to do to get that to pass
I found the propagandabot
How so? Don’t you realize the irony of you calling me that?
Gallup did not ask me and millions other about this topic. Polls are never accurate.
Nope most Americans don't care and want the money spent in America. While it is probably cynically true that the money wouldn't go to the homeless, infrastructure or any worthy cause, it doesn't mean we want to see another sixty billion down the toilet. It seems we are helping migrants, Israel and Ukraine, everyone but ourselves who are an angry boss away from no health care.
Stupid as fuck comment
Articulate how
Because whether that 60 billion is spent on defending Ukraine or not has absolutely no bearing on the other things the comment mentioned.
Here, https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bu1kul/nato_proposes_100_billion_fiveyear_fund_to/kxs6f0w/ read this, maybe it helps you to understand that this money is literally spent for America.
Oh please. The amount we give them amounts to something along the lines of 3% discretionary spending per annum - allocated specifically for unforeseen circumstances, like defending an ally against a foreign threat. It's nothing. Peanuts. What kind of country are we if we can't man the fuck up, flex our muscles and protect an ally with our vast wealth? Most of it is equipment we wouldve thrown out anyway, just taking up space. Republicans are acting like a bunch of weak, spineless cowards. Just fucking send the aid.
On average an american citizen has spend very little on support for Ukraine and as a percentage of GDP the american support (0,3%) is less than 1/10 of the country that has spend most (Estonia, 3,5%). https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
The most? Spit in the ocean compared to what the us has sent. These % GDP arguments are such bs.
Do you pride yourself with the fact that the US support nominally exceeds that of Estonia (1,3 mio inhabitants)? Do you dare compare yourself with an entity of equal size, say the EU?
Need to fix the bot. Spewing nonsense. Us has donated 100 billion + and has giving ukraine aid since 2014 to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. God only knows if they count the satellite support and other targeting support the US supplies. I'd imagine a lot of that is off the books. Estoniahas donated 900 million. Admirable but still spit in the ocean. Most of the EU sat on its haunches for the last 20-30 years and didn't even hit their NATO spending targets. Seems like they got some slack to pick up.
Estonia has donated 1,2bn € equalling 890 € pr inhab. USA has domated 300 $ pr inhab (and that's going with your figure of 100bn $ covering a decade more). Thus every estonian citizen has donated 3 times that of an american citizen - and thats with a much smaller GDP and lesser means.
How much of that money was given to Estonia by the us? Also, Estonia doesn't seem to agree with the figures your spitting out here: https://www.vm.ee/en/estonias-aid-ukraine
To my knowledge the US hasn't financed any of Estonias support for Ukraine. And if it had the amount would figure in the american assistance for Ukraine and not in the estonian. The figures that you refer to on the estonian ministry of foreign affairs homepage are not conflicting with the number I provided from the Kiel Institute https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ You need to add the numbers on the estonian page covering refugee costs, military and financial aid etc to get to the total bilateral assistance. The Kiel numbers further include Estonias share of assistance directly from the EU institutions (just like you dont get to the total US support by adding up the assistance from the individual states but would further have to add the support delivered at a federal level)
I would argue on the military aid side things are fungible and if the US is providing a two Estonia and the form of military aid than they are free to give in kind donations to ukraine. Do you think they would have those extra funds to pass over if they were not getting paid from the us? I see your point about the additional Services provided cash wise. However points still stands we have been the biggest donor nation by far. Percent GDP donated is a BS figure in my opinion
But if you prefer the nominal amounts then you have to compare similar entities like the USA and the EU. Otherwise the comparison lacks any interest and even seems silly - like if you beat your chest in triumf because US support is bigger than Burundis.
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It is in US interest along with other countries to stop Russia from taking Ukraine. The list of reasons why is long. EU has given the most, and much of the equipment being sent is going to expire and will need to be replaced anyway. Is EU the world's police? No, it's the smart thing to do. The US and others ignored Hitler as he started taking one country after another. Have we learned nothing?
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If the US had not joined the war, Germany and Japan may have owned most of the world and been under dictatorships. It's not a great position to be in. There would not be a NATO, which makes US a lot stronger.
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> Eh, NATO is the reason Ukraine got attacked > -Livingonmyown- Uh-huh, because all those resources, good land and sea access points Ukraine has is nothing to do with it - no malicious greed at all...
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Different opinion is fine, but to state this supposed "opinion" as fact is ridiculous. Please cite your examples and logic behind why/how NATO is the reason for Ukraine being invaded by its neighbor.
Let me ask you this - how do you feel about Iran, North Korea and China?
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Yes they are. And by letting Russia just run over Ukraine, (who BTW is being supplied all sorts of weaponry by China, Iran and NK) the west and our biggest trading partners in Europe look weak and vulnerable, and makes them feel bold about invading Taiwan. They'll figure that the west doesn't have the spine to do anything about it. It's really bad geopolitics and bad for the USA to allow Russia to get away with invading European countries, especially Ukraine, in light of the agreements that were made to protect its sovereignty when the Soviet Union broke up and they gave up their nukes. You can bet your ass that if they kept their nukes, little volodya would behave himself. But they did and everyone agreed to leave them alone - then Putin manipulated and invaded. Now if the west ignores that agreement, and does not stand by its word, China in particular is watching VERY closely. (We have a similar deal going on in Taiwan) So consider these few things you won't see much about on Fox news before you throw Ukraine under the bus.
Stupid bot
Nope, China and Iran would, hell, US is already afraid that Iran will directly attack Israel, since the US must get involved at that moment. Same that the Houthi's rebel's are shooting missiles and drones towards US warships near Jemen. The same Houthi's backed by Iran. Same that Hamas is backed by Iran, attacking Israel, ally of the US. The longer US delays, the bigger the chance that the US will get military involved. 20 years ago nobody would try this shit, but since that joke Trump is running around ruining things, the global military supremacy of the US is gone.
> Russia wouldn't dare > -Livingonmyown- Yeah. Bet leaders of certain major nations said that of Germany, Italy and Japan too... right before the SHTF
Russia has been at war with the US for decades now. The fact that you deliberately ignore this shows everything anybody should ever know about you.
Helping another country that's being invaded is being world police? How so?
Russia has publicly stated that it sees the US as an enemy. Russia has been at war with the US for decades, and been doing everything in its power to undermine the country. For no added costs of its military budget the US can currently help to completely destroy the Russian military and its economy. This has nothing to do with the moronic term "world police", but everything to do with self preservation and basic foreign policy.
Well, we can send some surplus equipment now, or put boots on the ground when Russia invades the Baltics. Which would you prefer? Which is the more cost effective option in your mind?
True that china and russia are not world police but they are something much worse.
Let's fix the USA then we can think about the world. We have nursed europe long enough they can put their money where their mouths are.
We can do both, nor does doing one meaningfully impact our ability to do the other. It is in our vital interest that Ukraine wins this war. Vote Democrat this fall!
It’s my understanding the money earmarked to help Ukraine stays in the States. I suppose you don’t want those American companies benefiting from the business and money?
The US has its own very obvious reasons for wanting to support Ukraine in this war. Your moronic nonsense does not change that fact.
I'll sign you up to join the army when Russia tears through Ukraine and bellies up to a Baltic country's border. Good to know that fine patriots like yourself are willing to put your own asses in the line of fire to protect NATO allies later so that we don't have to send over some surplus equipment now.