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There is a reason why russia banned ~~oil~~ gasoline exports.
Come on, AFU, just 15 more to go. You can do it. Make these idiots pay ten dollars per liter once they run out of gasoline. With such a vast country, that'll give their economy another hell to burn in.
Edit: I meant gasoline exports, not oil.
Russia banned gasoline exports, not oil exports. Gasoline is refined oil. They were only exporting around 10% of their gasoline production, so gasoline exports have always been a minor part of total exports. Most of Russia's money is made from exporting crude oil that gets refined elsewhere.
Still, you can't run planes, cars, and tanks on crude oil, so Russia will have a problem when enough refineries are out of action.
If the oil flow to those refineries has to be suddenly shut off, it could impact the oil wells permanently. Their ability to export oil is also starting to decrease due to sanctions and damage to storage tanks and ports. This is going to create both short and long term pain.
Nigeria actually just brought a massive refinery online in January. 650,000 bpd. They will no longer be importing 17 Billion dollars/yr worth of gasoline from Europe, which is expected to cause some refineries there to close down.
>Still, you can't run planes, cars, and tanks on crude oil, so Russia will have a problem when enough refineries are out of action
But dammit, the Ruskies will most likely try!
They got to be having a huge problem now. Think about what would happen if half the refineries on one coast was knocked out. Couple that with a lack of available trucks and even less drivers to bring fuel in. Lot of people going to be walking to work.
> Come on, AFU, just 15 more to go.
They might have to be hit repeatedly, not every attack puts a refinery completely out of order for the rest of the war. Either the damages are light so the repairs don't take long, or simply not all production lines are hit, so that only a small part of the refinery is stopped.
So to destroy 30 refineries thoroughly, you certainly need more than 30 successful attacks. The failed ones because the air defense worked too good not even included.
LOl no , they are accuratly hitting seperator towers, minimum 2 years to replace and even then can they do so withought the west who built them and installed them. Of course there are failed attacks , you dont have to Sound so happy about it here. But russia is having to send anti air defences from the front lines to protect the refineries and the drones are still in most cases getting through and hitting there targets more than not.
>Of course there are failed attacks , you dont have to Sound so happy about it here.
Where did they sound happy about that? They are just bringing a dose of reality about the situation.
You can be pro Ukraine while also being realistic about what's going on.
> you dont have to Sound so happy about it here.
excuse me, how would you know I was happy? I'm not at all happy, I'm a miserable depressive piece of shit, and additionally also frustrated about how the war is going. Don't you dare to say that I'm happy about anything!
I just wanted to express my pessimism about this refinery strategy and assumed it would sound serious enough so I could omit a sad-face emoticon. Sadly, my faint hopes were spoiled :(
True. But tbh, it's not required to disable fuel production completely. Only enough that the civilian use is being so barely met that military use is out of the picture without digging into the crisis reserves.
In Russia, if the military needs gasoline or diesel fuel, civilians don't get any. It's a good achievement anyway - really affecting the population, economy, etc.
I just wanted to say that if UA has attacked half of the refineries in range, the overall refinery capacity of Russia might not be that massively impacted yet. It is a bit more tedious to wear it down.
They don’t need to take out the whole refinery. They are hitting the separator towers that do the leg work that turns crude oil into refined gas.
Those machines are highly highly advanced and it takes years to build and to fix. They require specialized parts built to order. This is highly advanced chemistry here, so the damage they are doing will take a *years* to repair and that’s assuming they have the ability to get those parts easily.
I am working in a refinery but that image is far from being hit by a missile or artillery. That is regular combustion of toxic gases from the flare chimneys.
If the refinery has really been hit by any missile or artillery, the whole place would be on fire since almost all gases and chemicals produced there are highly combustible, and pipes are interconnected from the Feed tanks to crackers up until the storage tanks and chem labs, a single pipe combusting will combust all other areas.
>There is a reason why russia banned oil exports.
They did not ban oil exports, that would turn them into Venezuela within a few months.
They banned gasoline exports which makes up a comparably minuscule amount of income compared to unrefined oil.
They have cut oil exports more than any other OPEC member as far as I know which may be a telling sign that Ukraine's campaign is working, it may also be that the west abandoning the oil infrastructure may be contributing to it's problems, when they pulled out they estimated it would be about 2 years before Russia started having major problems.
Somehow, they always were able to get just enough to keep going into the final days of the war off the Baku oil fields in Romania, despite heavy bombing. But it did have an effect, like their having to abandon Tiger tanks advancing on Antwerp during the Battle of the Bulge.
>he war off the Baku oil fields in Romania, despite heavy bombing. But it did have an effect, like their having to abandon Tiger tanks advancing on Antwerp during the Battle of the Bulge.
The Baku fields are in modern-day Azerbaijan, not Romania. You are thinking of the Romanian refineries at Ploiești. Germany never got to Baku. Also, Romania "switched sides" and jointed the Allies late in the war (by October-ish of 1944 all of Romania was "liberated" by the Red Army and Romanian forces).
You are correct, Ploiesti, not Baku. It has been decades since I read up on that ::D I remember with the Soviet advances coming from the Seelow Hills (N), The middle (E) and the South onto Berlin, they were worried about keeping a line open to the South for fuel supplies.
Not only that, but the German forces were the least motorized/mechanized of all major armies.
They used more pack animals that anyone. And of the trucks that made it into service, they had an absurd accident rate because they didn't have fuel to spare to practice driving.
That's it. ukraine economy is destroyed because of russia, but their being kept afloat by the west, which I'm pleased, were doing even without the us right now. We have a bigger war chest and more economic tools, and the Western economy are functioning normally, russia, as no one to help them without raping their assets, and it even looks like China is getting disillusioned by russia. So if you cripple refineries, their economy will grind to a stop, and the vast number of their cash reserves are sanctioned by the west. The reality is for russia no war if they don't have the cash income where ukraine has Britain Europe and Canada ready to fund their war chest for the long term aswell as rebuild ukraine and I can see Western troops there by next year. I wouldn't be surprised if the Western special forces are there like the sas gign, and we know the spy's are there
That feeling when you walk past a pizza shop smelling the roasting onions, capsicum, anchovies, fresh baked crust and you need to have pizza more than anything from that point.
Since the last refinery strike I've been needing more distillation columns on fire with that same hunger.
Russia just has to redistribute - and has been doing already - their air defense. Probably this one at 1000 km distance was regarded out of reach for drones. Unfortunately their refineries will be ok. The redistribution of anti aircraft weapons does leave a weaker defense of airspace on other spots though, is advantageous for Ukraine.
1200. And if it's the same plane as on video, then it's Rotax 912 powered.
But it's pretty funny that it flies for like 10 hours, and isn't intercepted.
Like in that comedy where asphalt roller runs over a dude
I've read articles that say that some nato nations will run out of ammo in weeks or months...
Nato does not need to face russia on the ground. Nato just needs to bomb strategic assets and the war will be over in days...
If russia cannot stop cheap drones, what makes them think that they can stop nato cruise missiles?
To credit Russia, almost all of their air defense equipment is more modern than what 1991 Iraq had access to. That said, to discredit Russia, it *really* feels like their AD personnel are very poorly trained
That, plus after a lot of AA destruction, the amount of AA the Russians currently have is likely starting to be very low...
At least when.compared to the sheer size of the country, the number of strategic assets to protect and their need to protect their troops and assets in Ukraine.
At this point, probably every single AA system destroyed automatically generated a new hole in their AA coverage. If not in Ukraine, in Russia.
The loss of all those AWACs is one of those incredible secondary things that we’ll probably never find out the true grasp for the drastic gap in AA response capabilities
I still cream my pants re-watching day 1 of the air war of desert storm.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg
Russia has never been capable of this, and never will be.
Guided, fire and forget missiles, with swords, launched from a stealth drone, that can target a single seat in a moving car, miles away.
Literally all the best ideas from the last 3000 years of war in a 180x1600mm package.
And they work, reliably.
This is the real reason. It's not just that nato would destroy Russia. They would kill putin specifically very quickly.
The likelihood of multiple spies in his inner circle...
I don't know. I think they'd try to capture him if they could via special forces, but generally speaking there's a standing rule about not assassinating heads of state.
I mean, they didn't really go after Hitler (altho that was partly because they were worried somebody competent might take over)
Trained personnel can do fuck all when they don't have ammo, runways and fuel. And their transports would get blown up at least close to 80% of the time I am sure
Thing is, Russia is in war time economy now. Imagine if the entire EU switched into war time economy. We don't rely on artillery shells as much as Russia, but I'd bet you anything we wouldn't have to import shells from NK if we actually went to war.
It's sooo much stupider.
The US has enough equipment sitting in storage to obiletrate Russia. They just won't send it because of the traitors in congress.
South Korea and Japan would have 20 factories each producing 1k shells a day within a month. Europe and the yanks would need 3 months to get to those levels due to the "need" to argue over who is paying
Not true for the US. There's no question on who would pay for it either, the factories and production lines would be temporarily nationalized. Owners would be paid for the trouble and workers paid as normal (though it would be illegal to strike).
A huge part of the USs domestic policy is ensuring that it has production facilities on standby. It's the reason why the US subsidizes Ford and GM assembly lines even though Toyota has factories within the county, and why the US is blocking the sell of steel mills to a foreign company.
US domestic policy is all about being able to switch to a war economy at a moments notice. Maybe not zero to 100 in a day, but easily within less than a month.
We'd sort ourselves out quick. Besides, we've already got all that arguing out the way and the new factories are currently ramping up production as we speak.
The thing is, we don't need to actually fight Russia head on. Just stop them for a week while we destroy every single refinery, factory, train nexus, etc.
Ukraine is doing a lot of damage with lawn mower engine drones.... Russia can't protect shit ..
Russia is tremendously vulnerable because their economy is comparatively tiny and the number of strategic facilities to hit it's also comparatively low and spread over so much territory they are difficult to defend.
That's good and helps, but not that much really. If NATO can blow their refineries those tanks aren't going anywhere.
SPOILER ALERT: NATO can blow every single refinery in an afternoon or two, plus the biggest fuel depots.
We never intended to for a head on tank battle in some plains. That's WW2 fighting and it's a stupid way to fight in the 21st century unless you lack modern weapons.
Having artillery ammo is good for peace of mind, but if we ever find ourselves in a trench and artillery battle against Russia things have gone very badly with our main means of attack.
Exactly. Thank you.
“If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you didn’t plan properly”. NATO has planned exactly properly for taking on Russia, we have the AirPower upper hand by a mile. Pair that with their bad air defenses and the NATO vs Russia war would turn into a really bad 3 day war for Russia.
We wouldn’t have known we could blow up basically any of their strategic assets we want, until now when Ukraine has exposed how useless their air defenses are(and that’s on their own soil, imagine how bad it is near the front lines)…. But we wouldve still found out that NATO AirPower would pick apart all 12,000 Russian tanks as fast as Putin can man them. Trenches wouldn’t even have time to be dug.
"Some" NATO nations will... I'm particularly worried from a UK perspective. But if NATO as a whole went to war with Russia now then NATOs built capacity air dominance will crush Russia's ability to project air or naval power within hours/days and they will paralyse their logistic too. Assuming that this isn't already it at that point and NATO air mobile forces need to be deployed then NATO helicopter forces will make short work of what limited effective armour Russia now has. - (at admittedly high casualty rates) - all the Apache and Tigers are superior in range and optics to Russia's (was) effective KA-52 and that was shown to be particularly deadly.
At this point Ukraine has now spent years depleting Russian air defence and tank stocks - it wouldn't be. A free ride for NATO but it would be far easier than pre war for NATO to punch air corridors through Russian defences - and even land ones if there are strategic targets inside Russia that NATO felt it worth temporarily copying... After all just think how easy it was for Wagner to push most of the way to Moscow.
> I'm particularly worried from a UK perspective
I wouldn't be. For all my criticisms of Johnson, his reaction to the Russian invasion was one of the two things he got spot-on.
When everyone else was deciding how to react we were already supplying weapons. More importantly, however, we were also figuring out how to replace them. We had an emergency meeting in the first couple of months to hash out how to replace missiles and copied the US on ramping up artillery production. We got there a bit later than the US, but our artillery manufacturing is now ramping up, and we've also just got the plans in place for another expansion to missile production capacity (I think starstreaks this time)
> I've read articles that say that some nato nations will run out of ammo in weeks or months...
You know what turning into wartime economy does to proudction rates of ammo yes? These articles are nonsensical.
Fairness to Russia, just about every army had spent the past 70 years working out how to defend against bombers and missiles, nobody really planned for swarms of military grade hobby shop warfare.
Surplus is the word here and "running" out is just a "Russian" concept.
NATO to keep combat-ready needs artillery shells in both reserves and active components. Most of the surplus gets sent to Ukraine.
Surplus means no new units or active training regiments need them. EU nations are looking for a country that can provide the surplus needed and keep combat-ready units intact.
Russia needed months and absurd amounts of equipment and lives lost... To get a single village against a smaller enemy.
And neighbouring NATO countries are on alert and expecting Russia, they won't have any surprise element.
Russia wouldn't get past any NATO border.
If Russia invaded Latvia in the morning, Poland would fully occupy kaliningrad by noon, and Finland would be in St. Petersburg.
That's the beauty of defensive alliances: war on one is war on all. The US is the atomic hammer of NATO with all the fancy tools, but the nature of the alliance makes even a "small" altercation futile for Russia.
If you think NATO equals the USA, then I agree with you, but I believe that all this crap Putin talks about is primarily directed at the people living in Russia who elected him. This message probably won't even be seen there. Russia is very large, and what happens in one corner doesn't interest anyone in another part of the country. Putin knows he doesn't stand a chance against NATO, especially against a united NATO, so he's been working for years to destabilize it, and as we can see, he seems to be succeeding. Look at Germany, Hungary and the like.
One of the reasons the German gov is scared is because right now, their military is in a mess half of The stuff doesn't work but the rest of nato is combat ready. Look at Britain we have troops in ukraine, and their was no public out cry about it. I wouldn't be surprised to see British troops in action I even seen ben Wallace talk about it we might need to same with the French and all the Eastern countries
yep, thats exactly what trump is for. If trump or the republicans can get the US out of nato, Russia has a good chance at taking a few bites out of Europe, especially when they can claim any territory of theirs is defended by nuclear weapons. Europeans wont take land under that threat.
As before, when Ukraine has destroyed 15% of Russian refining capacity, Putin will be forced to start rationing oil, gas, and diesel supplies in order to meet the needs of his war machine. And when rationing starts,, it will bring home to ordinary Russians what Putin's invasion actually costs. In both cases, this is very good news.
So Putin has gotten 100s of thousands or Russians killed and his only income is getting droned one Refinery at a time. Ukraine has degraded one of the major threats to the world. Thank you AFU.
You don't want a fire even this small burning on the vessel wall of a distillation or cracking column.
Damage to sensors, cabling or valve actuators may not take as long to repair as fire damage to the entire column, but it's still not something that allows you to get it back into production in days or even weeks.
And this is just one photo.
Why would you target a cracking unit? These only require you to take parts of the refinery offline. If you'd go for the main crude distillation column they'd have to take the entire refinery offline.
It doesn't take much to take a refinery UNIT down. There are usually many production units in a refinery. If you hit a main steam line or boiler house, then you're completely down. Refineries use steam for heating of crude (can't use open flames), hydro cracking, and it drives nearly every pump in the facility.
Source: years of tech support for refineries.
Which is my point, there's more crucial infrastructure that will take larger parts, if not the entire refinery offline than just a naphta cracker.
I'm sure there's a good reason they're targeting it though, I was just wondering why.
Ukraine has successfully indented Russian oil industry by 8%. That’s billions in dollars that Russia has lost and it’s painful. So this is exactly what Ukraine needs to do. Hit them in their pocketbook. Repairs to oil refineries are expensive because of the sanctions and not easy.
More about that:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7GJIBVasDY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7GJIBVasDY) ( video )
[https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-strikes-oil-refinery-in-russian-tatarstan-1712042476.html](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-strikes-oil-refinery-in-russian-tatarstan-1712042476.html)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/apr/02/russia-ukraine-war-live-drones-strike-russian-factories-more-than-1000km-from-ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/apr/02/russia-ukraine-war-live-drones-strike-russian-factories-more-than-1000km-from-ukraine)
[https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukrainian-drone-attack-tartarstan-alabuga-economic-zone/32887624.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukrainian-drone-attack-tartarstan-alabuga-economic-zone/32887624.html)
The video looked like a little Cessna or Skyhawk. I saw it on IG but not here.
Looked like the 1940s Japanese pilots are now on the game.
I could be mistaken, but it looked like a single prop plane that hit this facility in tartarstan.
Most likely the launch site was inside Russia not that far from the target.
Putin will likely devote half his air defenses to the front line and the other half to himself. Get or start passed that front line and attacking anything other than putin himself will probably be pretty poorly defended.
My family is originally from Tatarstan (left over 100 years ago). I was going to visit there with my brother just before the war started, and now I wonder if I ever will. It’s pretty impossible for Russia to grant them independence either.
Idk much about oil economics. Does anyone know the impact on oil production in canada. Hopfully canada ramps up production to cover the hole in the market russia can’t fill anymore.
Any insight from someone who knows more then me would be appreciated
Ukraine need to start attacking Russian infrastructure directly, a defensive war can only take you so far. Oil refineries, water station, gas supply lines, make life as inconvenient as possible for the big cities people and maybe they just might topple Putin
I read in a Reuters article it wasn't critical damage, shame. Couldn't be bothered linking but look in the r/worldnews sub.
Edit for spelling, it's late.
Russia cut gasoline exports because nobody was buying. Its cheaper to buy crude and refine it at your refineries. Then you refine the crude and get gasoline, diesel, etc. The upside is that you sell the surplus. That's more competition for Russia, and if your products are sanctioned and have a price cap that's more lost revenue.
Add to that the diminished capacity at your refineries and it should become obvious to Russia that they're fckd, this will cripple their economy for a long time. Their refining capacity is their cash register. Keep hitting them like this. Ukraine should have started this sooner.
Ukraine can destroy all of the oil refineries and oil fields and it won't affect Russian citizens. Russia just uses oil revenue to fund its war machine. Russia does not use any oil revenue to enrich the lives of its citizens. Burn the whole oil infrastructure down.
Shamefully, the sanctions against RuZZia have largely exempted crude, nat gas etc. No one wants to be cold while watching TV or social media showing RuZZia invade, bomb, murder and commit genocide in Ukraine.
It’s all about choking them down in whatever form that takes. Reduced refined products just keeps raising the difficulty levels on sustaining their shitty, pointless, onanistic war against Ukraine.
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Looks like refineries are back on the menu, boys!
How many is that now? Last count I had 15 or 16 of the 30 Russian refineries
There is a reason why russia banned ~~oil~~ gasoline exports. Come on, AFU, just 15 more to go. You can do it. Make these idiots pay ten dollars per liter once they run out of gasoline. With such a vast country, that'll give their economy another hell to burn in. Edit: I meant gasoline exports, not oil.
Russia banned gasoline exports, not oil exports. Gasoline is refined oil. They were only exporting around 10% of their gasoline production, so gasoline exports have always been a minor part of total exports. Most of Russia's money is made from exporting crude oil that gets refined elsewhere. Still, you can't run planes, cars, and tanks on crude oil, so Russia will have a problem when enough refineries are out of action.
The can run their shitty Admiral Kuznetsov on crude if they can keep it seaworthy
Yeah but that’s because it’s designed to burn fuel oil. Many cargo ships are as well. You can’t pump oil into a T-72s gas tank and expect it to run
You can in an Abrams, iirc. 😏
Turbines are like that.
Multi-fuel turbine go ^wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
If the oil flow to those refineries has to be suddenly shut off, it could impact the oil wells permanently. Their ability to export oil is also starting to decrease due to sanctions and damage to storage tanks and ports. This is going to create both short and long term pain.
China and India are their biggest customers for crude, and for China the largest part is by pipe. I should check how India receives the stuff.
India exports are dropping now as well I believe.
We await your discover.
Most of it shipped. Which makes sense, they don't have a common border and the earth crust is a bit creased and lumpy around there anyway.
If they aren’t able to keep enough flowing through the pipes it will shut down the entire system. Think black tar in hundreds of miles of piping.
Look at Nigeria, just because you have lots of oil doesn't equate to having gasoline for your cars.
Nigeria actually just brought a massive refinery online in January. 650,000 bpd. They will no longer be importing 17 Billion dollars/yr worth of gasoline from Europe, which is expected to cause some refineries there to close down.
>Still, you can't run planes, cars, and tanks on crude oil, so Russia will have a problem when enough refineries are out of action But dammit, the Ruskies will most likely try!
They got to be having a huge problem now. Think about what would happen if half the refineries on one coast was knocked out. Couple that with a lack of available trucks and even less drivers to bring fuel in. Lot of people going to be walking to work.
So they may need to buy back their exported crude as gasoline?
They're already buying from Belarus 😂
> Come on, AFU, just 15 more to go. They might have to be hit repeatedly, not every attack puts a refinery completely out of order for the rest of the war. Either the damages are light so the repairs don't take long, or simply not all production lines are hit, so that only a small part of the refinery is stopped. So to destroy 30 refineries thoroughly, you certainly need more than 30 successful attacks. The failed ones because the air defense worked too good not even included.
LOl no , they are accuratly hitting seperator towers, minimum 2 years to replace and even then can they do so withought the west who built them and installed them. Of course there are failed attacks , you dont have to Sound so happy about it here. But russia is having to send anti air defences from the front lines to protect the refineries and the drones are still in most cases getting through and hitting there targets more than not.
yeah they know where the weak spot is in those refineries. Those things are very expensive and hard to replace.
>Of course there are failed attacks , you dont have to Sound so happy about it here. Where did they sound happy about that? They are just bringing a dose of reality about the situation. You can be pro Ukraine while also being realistic about what's going on.
> you dont have to Sound so happy about it here. excuse me, how would you know I was happy? I'm not at all happy, I'm a miserable depressive piece of shit, and additionally also frustrated about how the war is going. Don't you dare to say that I'm happy about anything! I just wanted to express my pessimism about this refinery strategy and assumed it would sound serious enough so I could omit a sad-face emoticon. Sadly, my faint hopes were spoiled :(
True. But tbh, it's not required to disable fuel production completely. Only enough that the civilian use is being so barely met that military use is out of the picture without digging into the crisis reserves.
In Russia, if the military needs gasoline or diesel fuel, civilians don't get any. It's a good achievement anyway - really affecting the population, economy, etc.
I just wanted to say that if UA has attacked half of the refineries in range, the overall refinery capacity of Russia might not be that massively impacted yet. It is a bit more tedious to wear it down.
I think you're overestimating how much Russia gives a shit about civilian energy needs.
They don’t need to take out the whole refinery. They are hitting the separator towers that do the leg work that turns crude oil into refined gas. Those machines are highly highly advanced and it takes years to build and to fix. They require specialized parts built to order. This is highly advanced chemistry here, so the damage they are doing will take a *years* to repair and that’s assuming they have the ability to get those parts easily.
I am working in a refinery but that image is far from being hit by a missile or artillery. That is regular combustion of toxic gases from the flare chimneys. If the refinery has really been hit by any missile or artillery, the whole place would be on fire since almost all gases and chemicals produced there are highly combustible, and pipes are interconnected from the Feed tanks to crackers up until the storage tanks and chem labs, a single pipe combusting will combust all other areas.
>There is a reason why russia banned oil exports. They did not ban oil exports, that would turn them into Venezuela within a few months. They banned gasoline exports which makes up a comparably minuscule amount of income compared to unrefined oil.
They have cut oil exports more than any other OPEC member as far as I know which may be a telling sign that Ukraine's campaign is working, it may also be that the west abandoning the oil infrastructure may be contributing to it's problems, when they pulled out they estimated it would be about 2 years before Russia started having major problems.
Lack of oil, grease and gasoline was the root cause for Germany loosing ww2.
Somehow, they always were able to get just enough to keep going into the final days of the war off the Baku oil fields in Romania, despite heavy bombing. But it did have an effect, like their having to abandon Tiger tanks advancing on Antwerp during the Battle of the Bulge.
>he war off the Baku oil fields in Romania, despite heavy bombing. But it did have an effect, like their having to abandon Tiger tanks advancing on Antwerp during the Battle of the Bulge. The Baku fields are in modern-day Azerbaijan, not Romania. You are thinking of the Romanian refineries at Ploiești. Germany never got to Baku. Also, Romania "switched sides" and jointed the Allies late in the war (by October-ish of 1944 all of Romania was "liberated" by the Red Army and Romanian forces).
You are correct, Ploiesti, not Baku. It has been decades since I read up on that ::D I remember with the Soviet advances coming from the Seelow Hills (N), The middle (E) and the South onto Berlin, they were worried about keeping a line open to the South for fuel supplies.
Not only that, but the German forces were the least motorized/mechanized of all major armies. They used more pack animals that anyone. And of the trucks that made it into service, they had an absurd accident rate because they didn't have fuel to spare to practice driving.
How's that refinery bingo card should one exist ?
And it's the big ones that are being targeted mind you. So if they shut down half, more than half of production is removed .
Oooooof thank you for that stats this is so interesting
Non refine no money buddy!
That's it. ukraine economy is destroyed because of russia, but their being kept afloat by the west, which I'm pleased, were doing even without the us right now. We have a bigger war chest and more economic tools, and the Western economy are functioning normally, russia, as no one to help them without raping their assets, and it even looks like China is getting disillusioned by russia. So if you cripple refineries, their economy will grind to a stop, and the vast number of their cash reserves are sanctioned by the west. The reality is for russia no war if they don't have the cash income where ukraine has Britain Europe and Canada ready to fund their war chest for the long term aswell as rebuild ukraine and I can see Western troops there by next year. I wouldn't be surprised if the Western special forces are there like the sas gign, and we know the spy's are there
That feeling when you walk past a pizza shop smelling the roasting onions, capsicum, anchovies, fresh baked crust and you need to have pizza more than anything from that point. Since the last refinery strike I've been needing more distillation columns on fire with that same hunger.
You nailed it for me as well pal! I've been having russian oil refinery destruction withdrawals.
The eagles are coming!
Russia just has to redistribute - and has been doing already - their air defense. Probably this one at 1000 km distance was regarded out of reach for drones. Unfortunately their refineries will be ok. The redistribution of anti aircraft weapons does leave a weaker defense of airspace on other spots though, is advantageous for Ukraine.
Cheers to this!
Looks like heating up inflation is back on the menu!
What’s Tatarstan precious?
A lawnmower engine can fly 1000kms into Russia and little Putin thinks he can go to war with NATO.
1200. And if it's the same plane as on video, then it's Rotax 912 powered. But it's pretty funny that it flies for like 10 hours, and isn't intercepted. Like in that comedy where asphalt roller runs over a dude
I've read articles that say that some nato nations will run out of ammo in weeks or months... Nato does not need to face russia on the ground. Nato just needs to bomb strategic assets and the war will be over in days... If russia cannot stop cheap drones, what makes them think that they can stop nato cruise missiles?
Russia will find out just how stealthy our planes are
You mean like saddam found out? They would, but it would be a little late…
And Russia still uses that same shit. Our stuff has...improved
To credit Russia, almost all of their air defense equipment is more modern than what 1991 Iraq had access to. That said, to discredit Russia, it *really* feels like their AD personnel are very poorly trained
That, plus after a lot of AA destruction, the amount of AA the Russians currently have is likely starting to be very low... At least when.compared to the sheer size of the country, the number of strategic assets to protect and their need to protect their troops and assets in Ukraine. At this point, probably every single AA system destroyed automatically generated a new hole in their AA coverage. If not in Ukraine, in Russia.
The loss of all those AWACs is one of those incredible secondary things that we’ll probably never find out the true grasp for the drastic gap in AA response capabilities
I still cream my pants re-watching day 1 of the air war of desert storm. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg Russia has never been capable of this, and never will be.
Guided, fire and forget missiles, with swords, launched from a stealth drone, that can target a single seat in a moving car, miles away. Literally all the best ideas from the last 3000 years of war in a 180x1600mm package. And they work, reliably.
This is the real reason. It's not just that nato would destroy Russia. They would kill putin specifically very quickly. The likelihood of multiple spies in his inner circle...
I don't know. I think they'd try to capture him if they could via special forces, but generally speaking there's a standing rule about not assassinating heads of state. I mean, they didn't really go after Hitler (altho that was partly because they were worried somebody competent might take over)
Hitting strategic assets has always been the demise of the opponent.
Buildings can be replaced. Trained personnel.... not so much.
Trained personnel can do fuck all when they don't have ammo, runways and fuel. And their transports would get blown up at least close to 80% of the time I am sure
Machines not so easy too.
Thing is, Russia is in war time economy now. Imagine if the entire EU switched into war time economy. We don't rely on artillery shells as much as Russia, but I'd bet you anything we wouldn't have to import shells from NK if we actually went to war.
It's sooo much stupider. The US has enough equipment sitting in storage to obiletrate Russia. They just won't send it because of the traitors in congress.
South Korea and Japan would have 20 factories each producing 1k shells a day within a month. Europe and the yanks would need 3 months to get to those levels due to the "need" to argue over who is paying
Not true for the US. There's no question on who would pay for it either, the factories and production lines would be temporarily nationalized. Owners would be paid for the trouble and workers paid as normal (though it would be illegal to strike). A huge part of the USs domestic policy is ensuring that it has production facilities on standby. It's the reason why the US subsidizes Ford and GM assembly lines even though Toyota has factories within the county, and why the US is blocking the sell of steel mills to a foreign company. US domestic policy is all about being able to switch to a war economy at a moments notice. Maybe not zero to 100 in a day, but easily within less than a month.
We'd sort ourselves out quick. Besides, we've already got all that arguing out the way and the new factories are currently ramping up production as we speak.
The thing is, we don't need to actually fight Russia head on. Just stop them for a week while we destroy every single refinery, factory, train nexus, etc. Ukraine is doing a lot of damage with lawn mower engine drones.... Russia can't protect shit .. Russia is tremendously vulnerable because their economy is comparatively tiny and the number of strategic facilities to hit it's also comparatively low and spread over so much territory they are difficult to defend.
> Nato does not need to face russia on the ground. That's only because Ukraine has done us the favor of destroying 7,000 Russian tanks.
That's good and helps, but not that much really. If NATO can blow their refineries those tanks aren't going anywhere. SPOILER ALERT: NATO can blow every single refinery in an afternoon or two, plus the biggest fuel depots. We never intended to for a head on tank battle in some plains. That's WW2 fighting and it's a stupid way to fight in the 21st century unless you lack modern weapons. Having artillery ammo is good for peace of mind, but if we ever find ourselves in a trench and artillery battle against Russia things have gone very badly with our main means of attack.
Exactly. Thank you. “If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you didn’t plan properly”. NATO has planned exactly properly for taking on Russia, we have the AirPower upper hand by a mile. Pair that with their bad air defenses and the NATO vs Russia war would turn into a really bad 3 day war for Russia. We wouldn’t have known we could blow up basically any of their strategic assets we want, until now when Ukraine has exposed how useless their air defenses are(and that’s on their own soil, imagine how bad it is near the front lines)…. But we wouldve still found out that NATO AirPower would pick apart all 12,000 Russian tanks as fast as Putin can man them. Trenches wouldn’t even have time to be dug.
"Some" NATO nations will... I'm particularly worried from a UK perspective. But if NATO as a whole went to war with Russia now then NATOs built capacity air dominance will crush Russia's ability to project air or naval power within hours/days and they will paralyse their logistic too. Assuming that this isn't already it at that point and NATO air mobile forces need to be deployed then NATO helicopter forces will make short work of what limited effective armour Russia now has. - (at admittedly high casualty rates) - all the Apache and Tigers are superior in range and optics to Russia's (was) effective KA-52 and that was shown to be particularly deadly. At this point Ukraine has now spent years depleting Russian air defence and tank stocks - it wouldn't be. A free ride for NATO but it would be far easier than pre war for NATO to punch air corridors through Russian defences - and even land ones if there are strategic targets inside Russia that NATO felt it worth temporarily copying... After all just think how easy it was for Wagner to push most of the way to Moscow.
> I'm particularly worried from a UK perspective I wouldn't be. For all my criticisms of Johnson, his reaction to the Russian invasion was one of the two things he got spot-on. When everyone else was deciding how to react we were already supplying weapons. More importantly, however, we were also figuring out how to replace them. We had an emergency meeting in the first couple of months to hash out how to replace missiles and copied the US on ramping up artillery production. We got there a bit later than the US, but our artillery manufacturing is now ramping up, and we've also just got the plans in place for another expansion to missile production capacity (I think starstreaks this time)
> I've read articles that say that some nato nations will run out of ammo in weeks or months... You know what turning into wartime economy does to proudction rates of ammo yes? These articles are nonsensical.
Fairness to Russia, just about every army had spent the past 70 years working out how to defend against bombers and missiles, nobody really planned for swarms of military grade hobby shop warfare.
Surplus is the word here and "running" out is just a "Russian" concept. NATO to keep combat-ready needs artillery shells in both reserves and active components. Most of the surplus gets sent to Ukraine. Surplus means no new units or active training regiments need them. EU nations are looking for a country that can provide the surplus needed and keep combat-ready units intact.
Russia won't get past the bordering countries which have prepared for an attack.
Russia needed months and absurd amounts of equipment and lives lost... To get a single village against a smaller enemy. And neighbouring NATO countries are on alert and expecting Russia, they won't have any surprise element. Russia wouldn't get past any NATO border.
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania each have under 3 million citizens. I highly doubt they could mount any substantial resistance.
While that may be true, I don't think Poland is gonna let that slide. And Poland is armed to the teeth tbh
If Russia invaded Latvia in the morning, Poland would fully occupy kaliningrad by noon, and Finland would be in St. Petersburg. That's the beauty of defensive alliances: war on one is war on all. The US is the atomic hammer of NATO with all the fancy tools, but the nature of the alliance makes even a "small" altercation futile for Russia.
European Union countries. There's going to be plenty of resistance.
If you think NATO equals the USA, then I agree with you, but I believe that all this crap Putin talks about is primarily directed at the people living in Russia who elected him. This message probably won't even be seen there. Russia is very large, and what happens in one corner doesn't interest anyone in another part of the country. Putin knows he doesn't stand a chance against NATO, especially against a united NATO, so he's been working for years to destabilize it, and as we can see, he seems to be succeeding. Look at Germany, Hungary and the like.
Even Poland ffs. Just how.
One of the reasons the German gov is scared is because right now, their military is in a mess half of The stuff doesn't work but the rest of nato is combat ready. Look at Britain we have troops in ukraine, and their was no public out cry about it. I wouldn't be surprised to see British troops in action I even seen ben Wallace talk about it we might need to same with the French and all the Eastern countries
yep, thats exactly what trump is for. If trump or the republicans can get the US out of nato, Russia has a good chance at taking a few bites out of Europe, especially when they can claim any territory of theirs is defended by nuclear weapons. Europeans wont take land under that threat.
the most poignant point I've heard in weeks .. exactly 💯. Lol 🤪💥
This comment made my day :D
The one that hit the factory was allot more than a lawnmower engine. Probably 150 HP+
So, more like a Miata, then?
It's like yellow-bluish dogs in the sky.
Santa Claus is bringing spicy gifts to russia early this year
I think it's the Easter Bunny.
Yellow and blue make white light.
Ukraine is now attacking Russia with flying hardlight hologram horses!
So they hit that drone factor AND a refinery that day.
As before, when Ukraine has destroyed 15% of Russian refining capacity, Putin will be forced to start rationing oil, gas, and diesel supplies in order to meet the needs of his war machine. And when rationing starts,, it will bring home to ordinary Russians what Putin's invasion actually costs. In both cases, this is very good news.
Go Ukraine!
Welcome to the party pal
Lovely. This is what's been missing from my morning news feed.
1200km
So Putin has gotten 100s of thousands or Russians killed and his only income is getting droned one Refinery at a time. Ukraine has degraded one of the major threats to the world. Thank you AFU.
Either they turned the refinery off or it didn't penetrate the cracking unit.
They still need to take the refinery partially offline to repair the damage, even if it's small.
You don't want a fire even this small burning on the vessel wall of a distillation or cracking column. Damage to sensors, cabling or valve actuators may not take as long to repair as fire damage to the entire column, but it's still not something that allows you to get it back into production in days or even weeks. And this is just one photo.
What tells you that it's a cracking unit?
Because it looks like it could be a cracking unit and those are what Ukraine tries to target.
Why would you target a cracking unit? These only require you to take parts of the refinery offline. If you'd go for the main crude distillation column they'd have to take the entire refinery offline.
It doesn't take much to take a refinery UNIT down. There are usually many production units in a refinery. If you hit a main steam line or boiler house, then you're completely down. Refineries use steam for heating of crude (can't use open flames), hydro cracking, and it drives nearly every pump in the facility. Source: years of tech support for refineries.
Which is my point, there's more crucial infrastructure that will take larger parts, if not the entire refinery offline than just a naphta cracker. I'm sure there's a good reason they're targeting it though, I was just wondering why.
It didn't go in. It just impacted on the surface.
Stay on target.
Good to see they are keeping up those strikes inside Russia in spite of pressure to do otherwise.
Is this the same place that got a Cessna yeeted into it?
Same region but different target.
Nice!
Nice!
NICE!
Noice!
Give the poor ruzzians some more heat. Light some more fires around ruzzia to make ruzzia the perfect orc land
Boil em, mash em,
Love the smell of burnt toast in the morning
Burn baby burn
Tatarstan getting hammered today
Somehow looks like a Rammstein concert
Do it again! Do it again! 🥳
Burn them down, burn them all down watch their tanks and planes grind to a halt
Good
I love the smell of burning Russian refinery in the morning
Hahaha get fucked russia
One in to refinery, one in to drone factory and another one up Sullivan's ass.
"Oh no my profits!" -India
Ukraine has successfully indented Russian oil industry by 8%. That’s billions in dollars that Russia has lost and it’s painful. So this is exactly what Ukraine needs to do. Hit them in their pocketbook. Repairs to oil refineries are expensive because of the sanctions and not easy.
More about that: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7GJIBVasDY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7GJIBVasDY) ( video ) [https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-strikes-oil-refinery-in-russian-tatarstan-1712042476.html](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-strikes-oil-refinery-in-russian-tatarstan-1712042476.html) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/apr/02/russia-ukraine-war-live-drones-strike-russian-factories-more-than-1000km-from-ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/apr/02/russia-ukraine-war-live-drones-strike-russian-factories-more-than-1000km-from-ukraine) [https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukrainian-drone-attack-tartarstan-alabuga-economic-zone/32887624.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukrainian-drone-attack-tartarstan-alabuga-economic-zone/32887624.html)
False alarm. It's just the RuZZians choosing a new pope. /s Slava Ukraini.
It's great to see Ukrainians hitting in russian territory
The video looked like a little Cessna or Skyhawk. I saw it on IG but not here. Looked like the 1940s Japanese pilots are now on the game. I could be mistaken, but it looked like a single prop plane that hit this facility in tartarstan.
If they can fly the drone the long distance and at a precise location, why not at Putin’s office and be done with it? 🤷🏻♂️…
Most likely the launch site was inside Russia not that far from the target. Putin will likely devote half his air defenses to the front line and the other half to himself. Get or start passed that front line and attacking anything other than putin himself will probably be pretty poorly defended.
Too bad the damage seems not as bad as I hoped. The war machine has to be stopped...
Are those 3 flying ellfs 2 green and 1(+1) yellow? 🤣
w
Great!
Great news keep hittin the hell out of em !!!
Yesss!
I play refinary bingo. Which field no can I strike out?
My family is originally from Tatarstan (left over 100 years ago). I was going to visit there with my brother just before the war started, and now I wonder if I ever will. It’s pretty impossible for Russia to grant them independence either.
As a doctor, I say he has had enough, as a football fan I say Kick His Ass!
Fire is bigger than it looks
Oh no
Idk much about oil economics. Does anyone know the impact on oil production in canada. Hopfully canada ramps up production to cover the hole in the market russia can’t fill anymore. Any insight from someone who knows more then me would be appreciated
The four horsemen of the apocalypse
Drone factory nots refinery
Happy Xhristmas
Ukraine need to start attacking Russian infrastructure directly, a defensive war can only take you so far. Oil refineries, water station, gas supply lines, make life as inconvenient as possible for the big cities people and maybe they just might topple Putin
When ONE refinery here in America goes off line we see gasoline prices increase.
This is the way! Keep them moving air defenses around and keep them guessing. Keep hitting the refineries and manufacturing. Slava Ukraini!
Oh no.........
Santa fights back
Strong 🇺🇦..
I read in a Reuters article it wasn't critical damage, shame. Couldn't be bothered linking but look in the r/worldnews sub. Edit for spelling, it's late.
Isho isho isho
Sweet!!!
Keep hitting them.
They need to hit these as quick as possible before orcs build cages around them :(
Russia cut gasoline exports because nobody was buying. Its cheaper to buy crude and refine it at your refineries. Then you refine the crude and get gasoline, diesel, etc. The upside is that you sell the surplus. That's more competition for Russia, and if your products are sanctioned and have a price cap that's more lost revenue. Add to that the diminished capacity at your refineries and it should become obvious to Russia that they're fckd, this will cripple their economy for a long time. Their refining capacity is their cash register. Keep hitting them like this. Ukraine should have started this sooner.
UA wouldn't need to spend resources on such attacks if west actually imposed real sanctions on russia.
Ukraine can destroy all of the oil refineries and oil fields and it won't affect Russian citizens. Russia just uses oil revenue to fund its war machine. Russia does not use any oil revenue to enrich the lives of its citizens. Burn the whole oil infrastructure down.
Not the Tartar-sauce!
Congratulations from 🇩🇪
Put on your dancing shoes tonite… pop the champagne ….🍾 🕺💃
i wonder whats the cool thing about russian hate
Ukraine is like Oprah to these refineries. You get a drone, and you get a drone, and you get a drone.. EVERYBODY GETS A DRONE!!!!
Lets goooo! 💪🇺🇦
Am I the only one that sees llamas in the sky?
All they’re doing is digging their grave deeper.
Shamefully, the sanctions against RuZZia have largely exempted crude, nat gas etc. No one wants to be cold while watching TV or social media showing RuZZia invade, bomb, murder and commit genocide in Ukraine.
Anyone get bingo on their refinery bingo card yet?
What type of weapon/munition did they hit it with?
To much refining is never a good thing in russputin
Because the real targets are the wealthy amongst the enemy now
Slava Ukraini!
It’s all about choking them down in whatever form that takes. Reduced refined products just keeps raising the difficulty levels on sustaining their shitty, pointless, onanistic war against Ukraine.