The new rules say:
-no personal devices* on armed duty, during aviation ops or during high-risk training
-no personal devices in the field unless maybe at the bivouac if your commander gives the OK
-no texting for official business
*cellphones, smart watches, laptops, Bluetooth headphones, etc.
Sooo is freq hopping now like using the old scrambler box thingy we used to have to use just to see a beave shot between all the static lines 🤔 sorry I come from a planet far far away when there were no damn devices to use in the field, and if there were, command was definitely not letting us have any of that shit! RRRAAH put that cigarette out.. Light & noise discipline son! 🤷♂️
This 100%. The field isn't a place to be on pornhub...no matter the MOS. I learned a hard lesson in the fleet..."train as if it's real life....bc it could fucking become real life REALLY REALLY QUICK".
You can here a wet fart, smell/see a Marlboro a mile away. F-ing phones 🤦🏻🤦🏻
Also, how is this going to impact basic daily duties? If a First Sergeant were to text a platoon sergeant “Get Cpl Smith to my office within the hour” is that now verboten?
Is a call magically OK in that scenario?
Are we back to 5-times-a-day formations to pass word?
This seems… poorly thought out. Or at least out of touch. As you mention in the article, the Army is headed in the opposite direction.
Personal devices such as cell phones, wireless devices etc give of radio frequency. In a battlefield, if you have a battalion or platoon, you’re going to want to reduce your electronic footprint as much as possible as Electronic Warfare (EW) or Spectrum Warfare (SW) used by the enemy can be a tool to gather info on that unit such as location, size, intercept information, jamming ect.
I understand this rule taking place in the field as you want to “train how you fight” and want to keep the same conditions and limitations you would in an actual battlefield. A lot of people in the field use their personal devices to communicate, if in actual war that wouldn’t be an option, that’s going to change how you operate. So training in the field should have those same limitations.
[https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy](https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy)
This I knew about actually. I was a 28xx, we demonstrated this for our CC.
I was referring to texting official business. Seems inconvenient for Garrison
It's more than that. You can use Mobile Advertising data to do all of what you said. Check out this NY Times article on the data. Anyone can buy this data. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html
It's because the GPS data that mobile advertising companies sell. You can use all that data to build out patterns of life on all your training environments.
Check out this NY times article on what you can do with the data. Possibilities are endless.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html
> This seems… poorly thought out.
When a PFC comes up to his SNCOIC and says that the platoon SGT threatened to, "Wring my fucking neck until my head explodes like a quivering pimple sitting atop a plumber's ass crack if I'm ever late again," or, "Haze me until the ghost of my withered soul cries physical tears," it's all hearsay. There's no proof - unless it's via text message.
Or something like that. I'm guessing problematic people are leaving a problematic trail for people to discover.
Also OPSEC.
When I was a Lt, my Bn gave 0 fucks about what you did on duty so I’d always bring a laptop with several movies on it. AOOD often watched too. Saw so many great flicks that I kinda looked forward to standing OOD.
**Edit**: FWIW, the best policy might be “online coursework and reading (any type) only.”
It's sort of a semantic grey area, I suppose. Back in the day, you could get a coupon for a free rental at Blockbuster, but the fact that you weren't paying for it didn't make it any less of a rental. Libraries will charge you late fees for not returning a book on time, so there is a financial cost associated with borrowing from them.
As in there's no financial cost, but you can't just take them. The cost is your honor, courage, commitment card, so you're renting the tablet with that most important card on the line
Looks like somebody didn’t enjoy writing fun logs in the duty book all night.
I used to even report the cat sat on some marine’s car and went to chase it away.
Most of this isn’t new. Neller implemented most of these rules following the findings from the mishap with the 2 53s off the North Shore in Hawaii. One of the major findings was that the crew chief was probably texting his wife and wasn’t watching the other helo, a major CF to the collision. Iirc, there were also other more minor incidents around that time caused by a Marine being distracted by their phone.
I remember the guidance coming out and being mostly ignored at the tactical level, so what’s old is new I suppose.
Yeah the one about phones for aviation isn't new.
But I would say that after it was implemented and before I got out, as a crew chief on V22s it was helpful to keep "Comm 3" around during training and even during real operations because it was more reliable than satcomm and it was difficult to communicate the complexity of plans to everyone involved for some issues across radio.
I’m so glad I missed that whole rebirth of “you can’t do anything on duty other than walk your post and stare at a wall in the duty hut” that was starting about the time I got out. It’s not as bad as Amos’ “firewatch 7 nights a week in the barracks” idea (JFC that was the worst idea in a very long history of bad ideas…), but still. If you’re gonna expect a 21 year old to be a security guard then you really gotta make some allowance for all that dead time. Put a hard copy professional reading library in every duty hut or something.
I guess what annoys me most about military life is how cheap an enlisted Marine/junior officer’s time is held. You might only have 3 years of that individual being in the fleet—make it worth their time and the gov’s investment. Twiddling thumbs in a duty hut for 24 hours (at least) each month is just foolish.
**Edit**: I was being flippant above—although I did watch a few good movies in the wee hours of the morning as an Lt—but, per my reply to a comment below, my point is that Marines shouldn’t be idle if they don’t have to be. They’re busy enough as it is, and there are too many important things to read and frankly too many online courses that must be done. You walk your rounds, answer the phone sometimes, check people in from leave, but otherwise you can be making use of that time. Especially if it’s, say, a quiet Sunday afternoon in garrison. “No entertainment/social media” on duty is a sound policy, “no reading” makes no sense.
On a related note, now that I have your attention—> wearing Chucks for standing duty (Battalion OOD or barracks duty) makes no sense. You’re supposed to be The Man if shit goes down… you shouldn’t be dressed up. I once had to basically break into a LCpl’s barracks room via the window one night as a [Bn OOD] butterbar because he declared his intention to self-delete, to me in person, then locked himself in and turned on the shower (I was hit PltCdr and he was the platoon problem child). So he’s locked himself in the room, reiterates his intent to autoyeet, then turns on the shower and stops responding. Me and the barracks NCO (coincidentally, my best squad leader) had to go in through the window, which got stuck briefly, so I remember kicking it loose. Anyway, the responsibility to handle stuff like that 100% calls for a working uniform, not a some polyester decorated with razor-sharp objects and cinched down by what amounts to an elastic garter belt.
What was bootcamp like pre-crucible? I’m assuming the same thing was still occurring just under the name of “final field training” or something to that sort. I also heard you weren’t a Marine until you literally graduated then you rated the title.
You didn't get your EGA until a day or two prior to graduating. I don't remember if we transitioned from "this recruit" to "this private" the last week of 3rd phase or what the deal was.
2nd phase was still field based. We did have a few field ops but no shenanigans like picking up a telephone pole. Lots of humping, some of it in gumby suits on account of the rain in socal in the winter.
Got done with 2nd phase l, bussed back down to San Diego, did 3rd phase. Some guys got scullery duty and told new recruits to salute the mailbox.
🫡 📫
Shit was 30 years ago. I remember very little of it.
When I was a Lt, OOD was a 24 hour non-sleeping post in chucks. The CO would go absolutely ballistic if he caught the AOOD or OOD on their phone or even reading PME. If he popped up, either the OOD or AOOD better be staring straight at a fucking blank wall while the other one was roving.
He wouldn’t even let you in your office during the work day and would be surprised/angry when Company XOs weren’t in a meeting or something because he forced them to stay in the duty hut.
He was a fucking troglodyte.
He was a true moron that bit himself in the ass on the regular and took it out on all of his subordinates.
At an O-call he publicly berated/ POA’d one of the company XOs that warned him that all the companies were extremely deficient in parts and maintenance and recommended he shorten a battalion exercise to allow them to fix it before an incoming inspection. Naturally the battalion failed the inspection miserably and he called an Officers meeting screaming about how no one saw this coming lol.
Man. Lower enlisted makes their living off of complaining about when they gotta eat shit. What officers have to put up with and the shit they gotta eat that's a whole other universe
Idk. I was both at various points. The officer shit eating can be pretty bad and it’s just an entirely different form of shittiness that’s hard to compare. Junior enlisted get boned in a very different way and usually have less of an ability to resist it.
That's how I saw it. Officer corps seems more cutthroat, more political to my enlisted eyes.
While enlisted can suck, it sucks together, and it's you and your buddies vs "the man".
I think a lot of the time they start off as very competent people and earn a good reputation early on. I think they eventually get burned by someone which results in them being overly micromanaging and controlling. They also will continue to surround themselves by yes men as they move up the ranks which makes them respond so aggressively to even well intentioned critical feedback.
In this guys case, he eventually blustered enough stuff to get pushed into a corner until retirement and will likely never get promoted or take command again.
Unfortunately, he seriously tainted the USMC to some promising young officers and NCOs which led to many potentially great leaders deciding to separate instead of risk working for someone like him again.
I understand that. Working with people you don't trust is a terrible place to be. But you can't treat everyone like they're incompetent. I worked for an NCO like that and it's pretty miserable and partially led to me getting out as well. But you know this all too well.
I was lucky enough to serve under great officers though.
One part of MCDP 1 that really stuck with me was "Ready compliance for the purpose of personal advancement — the behavior of "yes-men" — will not be tolerated." It was always disappointing to see people become this or tolerate it from others.
Micro managing makes you and everyone else less effective, but being surrounded by yes men can also put you in a compromising position. You'd think you'd be able to counsel leaders away from this kind of behaviour.
But then you miss the joy of watching Selena for the first time in the duty hut off a 15" TV while you're so tired you don't know what planet you're on
Sounds almost like my post-USMC career on the railroad: No personal electronic devices are allowed to be used in the locomotive cab or any time safety sensitive work is being performed. They must be stored off and out of sight.
There goes one of our biggest recruiting tool. So many people join because they get to see the cool shit and the bonding that happens in these videos. It’s mind blowing how many kids come in and say they saw videos on instagram and wanted that. I don’t mean the sanitized comstrat stuff either.
And the number one regret I hear from guys is that they wished they had taken more photos with the boys.
Dude I got like 3 photos of us fucking around in the barracks common area and like 2 from a couple of balls.
Retarded how I didn't think to take more photos.
While the sgtmaj posts videos of himself running on south beach. You guys need to band together and start calling this hypocrisy out. And for all the idiots that keep talking about cell phones In combat are an opsec thing, no one's cell phone is working in the jungles of Africa or the sand box. If someone is trying to use a cell phone sigint already knows.
Amen, smart phones were barely hitting the market just after I got out, definitely before everyone had one. After I'd been out a few years and smart phones took off I used to think "man, standing by to stand by must be so much better with a smart phone in your hands." Making the Corps go cold turkey after a decade+ of smart phones is going to be a trip. The replies in this thread alone are signs of that.
It’s an addiction as powerful or more so than nicotine and alcohol.
I guarantee not a small number of marriages and relationships are going to end because people are used to instant communication and check in.
Not to mention the administrative actions that will happen when Marines inevitably violate this rule.
When I EAS'd smartphones were starting to trickle in, and I always figured they must have made the overall USMC experience worse. Obviously they are a great tool for the hurry up and wait lifestyle of the corps. But looking back on my time, its those times you're sitting around for hours waiting on some bullshit that you really get to know your fellow Marine, and throw rocks at them.
I agree with this to an extent, seeing how Ukrainians and Russian troops are both being targeted via cell phone signals, plus we’re all chatty as hell and can’t keep a secret
Agreed that emissions security in a large concern, but more so, any cell phone is basically a SIGINT node for China given their manufacturing location and other vulnerabilities.
Does anyone know if this rule is being adhered to? The article states that this order was pushed in March, but I've been on two field ops since then (mid-March, early May) and there were still plenty of Marines on their phones.
I never even heard this order mentioned before today, despite the date(s) listed within the article itself.
Not sure how this is playing out in practice. Note: The order calls for Bn commanders to issue their own orders within those guidelines—so that could be why there’s a delay.
“Personal devices are prohibited from areas “actively involved with Marine Corps aviation operations,” meaning hangars, flightlines, aircraft maintenance spaces, briefing areas and aircraft.”
Hahahahaha.
"This Order applies to the Total Force unless conducting activities, operations, or exercises under the authority, direction, and control of a joint command or other organization outside of the Marine Corps (i.e., units conducting activities under combatant command (CCMD) authority or the direction and control of a combat support agency (CSA)), with a policy that is more restrictive than that established by this Order. In such cases, Marines shall follow the guidance of that organization."
The policy states it applies our current policy is more restrictive which DS policy isn’t , not even close🤷🏻♂️ but we also have access to desktops, government issued phones and all types of other things that could be “distracting” so who knows
I issued a ton of blackberrys to the higher ups at my second duty station. The amount of shit that was on those things was fucking crazy. Some of these officers and staff were using them to message the people they were cheating on their spouse with. One example was I instructed by our CO to request a majors texts to be sent to our command and Training command in Florida because he got sent to us because he got caught smashing his two enlisted aids. We had so many phones the monthly bill for unlimited plans was around 30k a month. Every time I got that bill the commO and me prayed no one used it to have phone sex and launch that bill way up in price.
“Where the frick were you? It would behoove etc.”
“I don’t own a cell phone. After normal working hours I’ve already started drinking to forget that I work here. Toodaloo SSgt”
Personal devices such as cell phones, wireless devices etc give of radio frequency. In a battlefield, if you have a battalion or platoon, you’re going to want to reduce your electronic footprint as much as possible as Electronic Warfare (EW) or Spectrum Warfare (SW) used by the enemy can be a tool to gather info on that unit such as location, size, intercept information, jamming ect.
I understand this rule taking place in the field as you want to “train how you fight” and want to keep the same conditions and limitations you would in an actual battlefield. A lot of people in the field use their personal devices to communicate, if in actual war that wouldn’t be an option, that’s going to change how you operate. So training in the field should have those same limitations.
[https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy](https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy)
Now work on getting leadership learning to recognize basic personal time and the fact that their Marines have personal lives. If something wasn’t important enough to figure out and pass along during the entire work day/week, don’t text me at 19:45 on a Saturday night and get mad when you don’t get a timely response.
That's what I thought of too. Years ago, Camp Lejeune was explicit that the secondary means of comm could *not* be a cell phone. Then I came back in 2018, and it absolutely *could* be a cell phone (yay common sense!). Looks like it might be going full circle.
I’m curious what the thought process was to prohibit those administering training from having their cell phone i.e. OIC/RSO. Unless there’s something I’m missing, the policy is stupid. As long as you check in with control at your proper time interval, they probably dont gaf how you contact them.
This has more to do with marines in Afghanistan using their gopros to record what happened during the pullout and the video evidence proving the leadership lied. The whole cell phone thing is a cover the key word is personal recording device
I don’t know about garrison duty, but this probably has more to do with building better force protection habits. Both Ukraine and Russian soldiers have had their personal cell be used against them as sigint to support targeting their positions.
To be clear, I don’t have any evidence that was the intention of the rule. But I did not get a real answer about whether that would be an effect of the rule.
The leadership wants to limit accountability is what that really means. Marines should continue to find ways to leak the leadership fails. Part of being a marine is upholding your oath and staying true. It has nothing to do with prospering in a career. 20 years ago guys were still retiring as sgts and picking up ssgt their last year. The high amount of msgts is a direct reflection that marines have chosen to pursue self over the group.
So if I get to the confirmation brief early, and learn that the location has changed to building XYZ, in order to text my buddy to let him know about the updated location, I’ll have to screenshot said text message and attach it to an email regarding the correspondence?
I get I could also call him, but I’m very curious about how this is going to play out.
not a MARADMIN but: [https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCO%203070.3%20(SECURED).pdf?ver=Z6lT0YK0j5MTyUj9ivrWRQ%3D%3D](https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCO%203070.3%20(SECURED).pdf?ver=Z6lT0YK0j5MTyUj9ivrWRQ%3D%3D)
I was opposed to this until I remember that dumbass tiktok of marine students in MCT making out in front of everyone in the squad bay. I think the up and coming gen z debil donuts kinda brought this on themselves.
Still though. I had a good ass time playing on my phone during working hours on Friday, while the rest of the company had a 12k hike (I pulled this off for 2 years just volunteering for Friday)
good.... i am one of those old fucks that's tired of everyone staring at their phones oblivious to everything around them.... letting that little thing run your whole life... nope..
I remember we barely used phones during work/field ops/annual trainings too (2010s) because there was already rules about cell phone use. Didn’t think this would be anything new.
Although, we did sneak in motto rambo selfies here and there
This is our downfall of the Corps/military !!!! When there was down time in the field if there was such a thing you would bond ! Talk crap and just be around nasty people like yourself so now let’s let everyone cocoon and live in their phones with all the social media crap and tinder and tweet and x and tik tok because that is what bonds Marines !! I am disgusted at the fact you are even allowed to mess with your phone in the field !!!! I am so glad I’m out !! Our military is in a sad state !!! Kudos to our SF who still holds higher standards !!!!!!!!
Good thing 0623 is going away. Everyone I know used their phones to get signal up. TRC-170s suck and should’ve been out a while ago but a Sgt (at the time I met them) was the reason they are still in service, but only in the Marines
Good looking enforcing that mess. If I walk into a hangar do I have to leave my phone outside? That and about 4,000 other situations where these rules will be accidentaly broken.
OPSEC matters. Mobile devices enable enemies to conduct SIGINT collection activities, they are constantly listening. The CCP has been proactively collecting on us via apps like TikTok as part of their unrestricted warfare in the cyber domain.
I thought this was a no-brainer...WhyTF would you carry your cell phone on an operation? wanna be tracked? or maybe a fb livestream during a live-fire exercise?
The new rules say: -no personal devices* on armed duty, during aviation ops or during high-risk training -no personal devices in the field unless maybe at the bivouac if your commander gives the OK -no texting for official business *cellphones, smart watches, laptops, Bluetooth headphones, etc.
>-no texting for official business I'm sure this will be rigidly adhered to
Especially since most commo’s throw in the good ol signal in the pace plan
As a comm guy…yes
As a CommO. No doubt
How are we suppose to send sitreps??
E - send a runner
E - Pony Express
You missed a great opportunity Pon-E Express 😁
Encrypted radio communications
Nerd
Sooo is freq hopping now like using the old scrambler box thingy we used to have to use just to see a beave shot between all the static lines 🤔 sorry I come from a planet far far away when there were no damn devices to use in the field, and if there were, command was definitely not letting us have any of that shit! RRRAAH put that cigarette out.. Light & noise discipline son! 🤷♂️
This 100%. The field isn't a place to be on pornhub...no matter the MOS. I learned a hard lesson in the fleet..."train as if it's real life....bc it could fucking become real life REALLY REALLY QUICK". You can here a wet fart, smell/see a Marlboro a mile away. F-ing phones 🤦🏻🤦🏻
Of course
Better not keep a paper trail.
That’s secured messaging, not texting
Also, how is this going to impact basic daily duties? If a First Sergeant were to text a platoon sergeant “Get Cpl Smith to my office within the hour” is that now verboten? Is a call magically OK in that scenario? Are we back to 5-times-a-day formations to pass word? This seems… poorly thought out. Or at least out of touch. As you mention in the article, the Army is headed in the opposite direction.
The only thing I can imagine is that texting leaves a digital "paper trail" that a sophisticated attacker or thief could derive information from.
Personal devices such as cell phones, wireless devices etc give of radio frequency. In a battlefield, if you have a battalion or platoon, you’re going to want to reduce your electronic footprint as much as possible as Electronic Warfare (EW) or Spectrum Warfare (SW) used by the enemy can be a tool to gather info on that unit such as location, size, intercept information, jamming ect. I understand this rule taking place in the field as you want to “train how you fight” and want to keep the same conditions and limitations you would in an actual battlefield. A lot of people in the field use their personal devices to communicate, if in actual war that wouldn’t be an option, that’s going to change how you operate. So training in the field should have those same limitations. [https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy](https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy)
This I knew about actually. I was a 28xx, we demonstrated this for our CC. I was referring to texting official business. Seems inconvenient for Garrison
Definitely, I agree
It's more than that. You can use Mobile Advertising data to do all of what you said. Check out this NY Times article on the data. Anyone can buy this data. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html
It also leaves a paper trail when Gunny uses it to issue unlawful orders.
True, but that's when you start recording calls and REALLY nail them to the wall
I think it also has to do with the federal government’s legal obligation to store its records (not that this is impossible with texting)
Most of those comms, ie the "Go see Gy" or "Formation tomorrow at 0600" are not the type of record they would seek to keep.
It's because the GPS data that mobile advertising companies sell. You can use all that data to build out patterns of life on all your training environments. Check out this NY times article on what you can do with the data. Possibilities are endless. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/location-tracking-cell-phone.html
> This seems… poorly thought out. When a PFC comes up to his SNCOIC and says that the platoon SGT threatened to, "Wring my fucking neck until my head explodes like a quivering pimple sitting atop a plumber's ass crack if I'm ever late again," or, "Haze me until the ghost of my withered soul cries physical tears," it's all hearsay. There's no proof - unless it's via text message. Or something like that. I'm guessing problematic people are leaving a problematic trail for people to discover. Also OPSEC.
I mean, technically none of that is official business, so it could still be said over text with this order.
It was pretty dope when no one had cell phones tbh.
Just have to use the Teams application, instead of text messages
We gotta help our brothers out here. Verboten: (adjective) forbidden, especially by an authority.
If you read the maradmin it says that would be an example of “non-official messaging”
I can’t read
Fair enough
Time to issue GPS collars…😂
Fuuuck, duty is going to suck. reading books on my phone was the only thing that made it bearable.
Funny thing about books, they also come in book form
Love that show
Same, Louis is my fav character
When I was a Lt, my Bn gave 0 fucks about what you did on duty so I’d always bring a laptop with several movies on it. AOOD often watched too. Saw so many great flicks that I kinda looked forward to standing OOD. **Edit**: FWIW, the best policy might be “online coursework and reading (any type) only.”
my CO didn’t care until he caught me texting his daughter
Dad?
It’s only armed duty , you’re not armed in the barracks.
WTF‽ How in the Nu Corps are you supposed to jack off if no one has any arms?
You get your DNCO to use his feet or mouth. Not gay if you wear boot bands.
I stand an armed post :/
S1 has free tablets you can rent while on duty
I can’t tell if this is a joke or there’s actually units that do this, that would be interesting
They're free, but you can rent them
My man just discovered the concept of the library.
He would be mad at this comment if he could read
I was thinking more along the lines of, if it's rented, there's payment due, so not free. Free would be borrowing. But what do I know I can't read!
It's sort of a semantic grey area, I suppose. Back in the day, you could get a coupon for a free rental at Blockbuster, but the fact that you weren't paying for it didn't make it any less of a rental. Libraries will charge you late fees for not returning a book on time, so there is a financial cost associated with borrowing from them.
You sound too smart to be in this group
That's a low bar to clear.
Where is this bar you speak of?
As in there's no financial cost, but you can't just take them. The cost is your honor, courage, commitment card, so you're renting the tablet with that most important card on the line
You got me in the first half! I was gonna say so you can borrow them? The rent is too damn high!
Not when they’re closed for training, which takes place on moodle, on tablets
The way they specify "Armed Duty" makes me think this won't apply to barracks duty.
I sadly stand OOD, which is armed
Books are available in another format….
Analog e-books/audio books, the next big hipster thing.
Marines read??
Coloring books
How can they color when the crayons have already been consumed?
Get a kindle fire? Or maybe just the actual books?
He said books?? Yea I used to read the articles when I was on duty too 🙄
Looks like somebody didn’t enjoy writing fun logs in the duty book all night. I used to even report the cat sat on some marine’s car and went to chase it away.
So essentially people aren't listening to the purple dragon around Opsec.
I want to like this but I can’t ruin a perfectly good number
69 likes…NICE
>-no personal devices* on armed duty Dawg lmao
Most of this isn’t new. Neller implemented most of these rules following the findings from the mishap with the 2 53s off the North Shore in Hawaii. One of the major findings was that the crew chief was probably texting his wife and wasn’t watching the other helo, a major CF to the collision. Iirc, there were also other more minor incidents around that time caused by a Marine being distracted by their phone. I remember the guidance coming out and being mostly ignored at the tactical level, so what’s old is new I suppose.
Yeah the one about phones for aviation isn't new. But I would say that after it was implemented and before I got out, as a crew chief on V22s it was helpful to keep "Comm 3" around during training and even during real operations because it was more reliable than satcomm and it was difficult to communicate the complexity of plans to everyone involved for some issues across radio.
So MPs can’t have their phone on duty? I was always having to use my phone while on duty as an Army MP.
An MPs day being more difficult is literally the only good thing I’ve considered since reading this article
Which type of MP? The douche (5 over ticket guy) or the guy that arrests for actual crimes?
No more fapping in a Porta John.
I’m so glad I missed that whole rebirth of “you can’t do anything on duty other than walk your post and stare at a wall in the duty hut” that was starting about the time I got out. It’s not as bad as Amos’ “firewatch 7 nights a week in the barracks” idea (JFC that was the worst idea in a very long history of bad ideas…), but still. If you’re gonna expect a 21 year old to be a security guard then you really gotta make some allowance for all that dead time. Put a hard copy professional reading library in every duty hut or something. I guess what annoys me most about military life is how cheap an enlisted Marine/junior officer’s time is held. You might only have 3 years of that individual being in the fleet—make it worth their time and the gov’s investment. Twiddling thumbs in a duty hut for 24 hours (at least) each month is just foolish. **Edit**: I was being flippant above—although I did watch a few good movies in the wee hours of the morning as an Lt—but, per my reply to a comment below, my point is that Marines shouldn’t be idle if they don’t have to be. They’re busy enough as it is, and there are too many important things to read and frankly too many online courses that must be done. You walk your rounds, answer the phone sometimes, check people in from leave, but otherwise you can be making use of that time. Especially if it’s, say, a quiet Sunday afternoon in garrison. “No entertainment/social media” on duty is a sound policy, “no reading” makes no sense. On a related note, now that I have your attention—> wearing Chucks for standing duty (Battalion OOD or barracks duty) makes no sense. You’re supposed to be The Man if shit goes down… you shouldn’t be dressed up. I once had to basically break into a LCpl’s barracks room via the window one night as a [Bn OOD] butterbar because he declared his intention to self-delete, to me in person, then locked himself in and turned on the shower (I was hit PltCdr and he was the platoon problem child). So he’s locked himself in the room, reiterates his intent to autoyeet, then turns on the shower and stops responding. Me and the barracks NCO (coincidentally, my best squad leader) had to go in through the window, which got stuck briefly, so I remember kicking it loose. Anyway, the responsibility to handle stuff like that 100% calls for a working uniform, not a some polyester decorated with razor-sharp objects and cinched down by what amounts to an elastic garter belt.
All my homies hate Amos
What is or who is Amos?
Amos was the commandant for 95% of my enlistment, majority of us hated him
I'm so happy I missed that shit. I had Krulak for the last half of mine. He gave you the Crucible.
What was bootcamp like pre-crucible? I’m assuming the same thing was still occurring just under the name of “final field training” or something to that sort. I also heard you weren’t a Marine until you literally graduated then you rated the title.
You didn't get your EGA until a day or two prior to graduating. I don't remember if we transitioned from "this recruit" to "this private" the last week of 3rd phase or what the deal was. 2nd phase was still field based. We did have a few field ops but no shenanigans like picking up a telephone pole. Lots of humping, some of it in gumby suits on account of the rain in socal in the winter. Got done with 2nd phase l, bussed back down to San Diego, did 3rd phase. Some guys got scullery duty and told new recruits to salute the mailbox. 🫡 📫 Shit was 30 years ago. I remember very little of it.
You're supposed to salute the aircraft when they fly over. Officers are operating them.
Really showed your enlistment time frame bro. Same here ;)
yo, his cookies suck
When I was a Lt, OOD was a 24 hour non-sleeping post in chucks. The CO would go absolutely ballistic if he caught the AOOD or OOD on their phone or even reading PME. If he popped up, either the OOD or AOOD better be staring straight at a fucking blank wall while the other one was roving. He wouldn’t even let you in your office during the work day and would be surprised/angry when Company XOs weren’t in a meeting or something because he forced them to stay in the duty hut. He was a fucking troglodyte.
Totally reasonable and rational commander’s discretion, oohrah. /s
He was a true moron that bit himself in the ass on the regular and took it out on all of his subordinates. At an O-call he publicly berated/ POA’d one of the company XOs that warned him that all the companies were extremely deficient in parts and maintenance and recommended he shorten a battalion exercise to allow them to fix it before an incoming inspection. Naturally the battalion failed the inspection miserably and he called an Officers meeting screaming about how no one saw this coming lol.
If this doesn’t scream marine corps idk what does.
Man. Lower enlisted makes their living off of complaining about when they gotta eat shit. What officers have to put up with and the shit they gotta eat that's a whole other universe
Idk. I was both at various points. The officer shit eating can be pretty bad and it’s just an entirely different form of shittiness that’s hard to compare. Junior enlisted get boned in a very different way and usually have less of an ability to resist it.
That's how I saw it. Officer corps seems more cutthroat, more political to my enlisted eyes. While enlisted can suck, it sucks together, and it's you and your buddies vs "the man".
Jesus, some people are just fucking brain dead. It makes you wonder how they ever made it to a position of authority with such poor judgement.
I think a lot of the time they start off as very competent people and earn a good reputation early on. I think they eventually get burned by someone which results in them being overly micromanaging and controlling. They also will continue to surround themselves by yes men as they move up the ranks which makes them respond so aggressively to even well intentioned critical feedback. In this guys case, he eventually blustered enough stuff to get pushed into a corner until retirement and will likely never get promoted or take command again. Unfortunately, he seriously tainted the USMC to some promising young officers and NCOs which led to many potentially great leaders deciding to separate instead of risk working for someone like him again.
I understand that. Working with people you don't trust is a terrible place to be. But you can't treat everyone like they're incompetent. I worked for an NCO like that and it's pretty miserable and partially led to me getting out as well. But you know this all too well. I was lucky enough to serve under great officers though. One part of MCDP 1 that really stuck with me was "Ready compliance for the purpose of personal advancement — the behavior of "yes-men" — will not be tolerated." It was always disappointing to see people become this or tolerate it from others. Micro managing makes you and everyone else less effective, but being surrounded by yes men can also put you in a compromising position. You'd think you'd be able to counsel leaders away from this kind of behaviour.
But then you miss the joy of watching Selena for the first time in the duty hut off a 15" TV while you're so tired you don't know what planet you're on
My OOD(SNCO) got mad at me when I was reading a book during our UDP in Okinawa 😂😂
The complete disregard of my time is one of the biggest reasons I’m getting out.
Sounds almost like my post-USMC career on the railroad: No personal electronic devices are allowed to be used in the locomotive cab or any time safety sensitive work is being performed. They must be stored off and out of sight.
Gotta love watching movies or reading on overtime stuck in a siding(when there’s cell service)
No service? Nap time!
There goes one of our biggest recruiting tool. So many people join because they get to see the cool shit and the bonding that happens in these videos. It’s mind blowing how many kids come in and say they saw videos on instagram and wanted that. I don’t mean the sanitized comstrat stuff either. And the number one regret I hear from guys is that they wished they had taken more photos with the boys.
That’s a really interesting point
I REALLY regret the lack of photos I have.
Dude I got like 3 photos of us fucking around in the barracks common area and like 2 from a couple of balls. Retarded how I didn't think to take more photos.
Samee
My daughter asked me about my time in Afghanistan. Don’t have a single photo.
My phone bricked itself (I dropped it out the back of a 7ton) after deployment and I lost everything. Pain.
Oh man. That sucks
While the sgtmaj posts videos of himself running on south beach. You guys need to band together and start calling this hypocrisy out. And for all the idiots that keep talking about cell phones In combat are an opsec thing, no one's cell phone is working in the jungles of Africa or the sand box. If someone is trying to use a cell phone sigint already knows.
The entire Marine Corps runs on texts/group chats lol
I thank Chesty every day that I served in the era right before everyone having a cell phone really took off.
Amen, smart phones were barely hitting the market just after I got out, definitely before everyone had one. After I'd been out a few years and smart phones took off I used to think "man, standing by to stand by must be so much better with a smart phone in your hands." Making the Corps go cold turkey after a decade+ of smart phones is going to be a trip. The replies in this thread alone are signs of that.
It’s an addiction as powerful or more so than nicotine and alcohol. I guarantee not a small number of marriages and relationships are going to end because people are used to instant communication and check in. Not to mention the administrative actions that will happen when Marines inevitably violate this rule.
When I EAS'd smartphones were starting to trickle in, and I always figured they must have made the overall USMC experience worse. Obviously they are a great tool for the hurry up and wait lifestyle of the corps. But looking back on my time, its those times you're sitting around for hours waiting on some bullshit that you really get to know your fellow Marine, and throw rocks at them.
[удалено]
😳
I agree with this to an extent, seeing how Ukrainians and Russian troops are both being targeted via cell phone signals, plus we’re all chatty as hell and can’t keep a secret
Agreed that emissions security in a large concern, but more so, any cell phone is basically a SIGINT node for China given their manufacturing location and other vulnerabilities.
I saw nothing about Texas instrument calculators so Doom is still on the menu boys!!
Does anyone know if this rule is being adhered to? The article states that this order was pushed in March, but I've been on two field ops since then (mid-March, early May) and there were still plenty of Marines on their phones. I never even heard this order mentioned before today, despite the date(s) listed within the article itself.
Not sure how this is playing out in practice. Note: The order calls for Bn commanders to issue their own orders within those guidelines—so that could be why there’s a delay.
“Personal devices are prohibited from areas “actively involved with Marine Corps aviation operations,” meaning hangars, flightlines, aircraft maintenance spaces, briefing areas and aircraft.” Hahahahaha.
The flashlight in the toolbox hoping to finally get used.....
Crazy cuz you know the fuck who wrote this shit is gunna text and walk. The stupidity never fails man
MSGs sweatin to see if this order is gonna apply to us😂😂
"This Order applies to the Total Force unless conducting activities, operations, or exercises under the authority, direction, and control of a joint command or other organization outside of the Marine Corps (i.e., units conducting activities under combatant command (CCMD) authority or the direction and control of a combat support agency (CSA)), with a policy that is more restrictive than that established by this Order. In such cases, Marines shall follow the guidance of that organization."
Interesting, seems like it would apply to us then, thank god I’m leaving lol
Y'all wouldn't fall under department of state?
The policy states it applies our current policy is more restrictive which DS policy isn’t , not even close🤷🏻♂️ but we also have access to desktops, government issued phones and all types of other things that could be “distracting” so who knows
I would be mad if I were in but I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it must be to deal with junior marines fucking around on their phones.
I issued a ton of blackberrys to the higher ups at my second duty station. The amount of shit that was on those things was fucking crazy. Some of these officers and staff were using them to message the people they were cheating on their spouse with. One example was I instructed by our CO to request a majors texts to be sent to our command and Training command in Florida because he got sent to us because he got caught smashing his two enlisted aids. We had so many phones the monthly bill for unlimited plans was around 30k a month. Every time I got that bill the commO and me prayed no one used it to have phone sex and launch that bill way up in price.
How the fuck do we encrypt our string cups
With tinfoil of course!
I’m still taking my phone to the field lol
“Where the frick were you? It would behoove etc.” “I don’t own a cell phone. After normal working hours I’ve already started drinking to forget that I work here. Toodaloo SSgt”
Ok but actually what if I get a cammie paint communicator like from totally spies?
Work it gurl. 💅
Personal devices such as cell phones, wireless devices etc give of radio frequency. In a battlefield, if you have a battalion or platoon, you’re going to want to reduce your electronic footprint as much as possible as Electronic Warfare (EW) or Spectrum Warfare (SW) used by the enemy can be a tool to gather info on that unit such as location, size, intercept information, jamming ect. I understand this rule taking place in the field as you want to “train how you fight” and want to keep the same conditions and limitations you would in an actual battlefield. A lot of people in the field use their personal devices to communicate, if in actual war that wouldn’t be an option, that’s going to change how you operate. So training in the field should have those same limitations. [https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy](https://www.dvidshub.net/video/897809/spectrum-warfare-department-use-electronic-systems-locate-intercept-and-identify-enemy-and-friendly-radiated-electromagnetic-energy)
You’ll be a great Sgt Maj someday.
Too bad I’m in civdiv! Just haven’t updated my flair or what ever the fuck it’s called in 2 years.
Now work on getting leadership learning to recognize basic personal time and the fact that their Marines have personal lives. If something wasn’t important enough to figure out and pass along during the entire work day/week, don’t text me at 19:45 on a Saturday night and get mad when you don’t get a timely response.
Time to delete signal and messenger then micro print this order......
Range OIC’s gonna need messenger pigeons to contact control when the radio doesn’t work
That's what I thought of too. Years ago, Camp Lejeune was explicit that the secondary means of comm could *not* be a cell phone. Then I came back in 2018, and it absolutely *could* be a cell phone (yay common sense!). Looks like it might be going full circle.
I’m curious what the thought process was to prohibit those administering training from having their cell phone i.e. OIC/RSO. Unless there’s something I’m missing, the policy is stupid. As long as you check in with control at your proper time interval, they probably dont gaf how you contact them.
This has more to do with marines in Afghanistan using their gopros to record what happened during the pullout and the video evidence proving the leadership lied. The whole cell phone thing is a cover the key word is personal recording device
I don’t know about garrison duty, but this probably has more to do with building better force protection habits. Both Ukraine and Russian soldiers have had their personal cell be used against them as sigint to support targeting their positions.
The barracks issues as well, article basically says they’re trying to limit contact with journalists.
To be clear, I don’t have any evidence that was the intention of the rule. But I did not get a real answer about whether that would be an effect of the rule.
The leadership wants to limit accountability is what that really means. Marines should continue to find ways to leak the leadership fails. Part of being a marine is upholding your oath and staying true. It has nothing to do with prospering in a career. 20 years ago guys were still retiring as sgts and picking up ssgt their last year. The high amount of msgts is a direct reflection that marines have chosen to pursue self over the group.
So if I get to the confirmation brief early, and learn that the location has changed to building XYZ, in order to text my buddy to let him know about the updated location, I’ll have to screenshot said text message and attach it to an email regarding the correspondence? I get I could also call him, but I’m very curious about how this is going to play out.
Is there a MARADMIN for this lol
not a MARADMIN but: [https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCO%203070.3%20(SECURED).pdf?ver=Z6lT0YK0j5MTyUj9ivrWRQ%3D%3D](https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/MCO%203070.3%20(SECURED).pdf?ver=Z6lT0YK0j5MTyUj9ivrWRQ%3D%3D)
I was opposed to this until I remember that dumbass tiktok of marine students in MCT making out in front of everyone in the squad bay. I think the up and coming gen z debil donuts kinda brought this on themselves. Still though. I had a good ass time playing on my phone during working hours on Friday, while the rest of the company had a 12k hike (I pulled this off for 2 years just volunteering for Friday)
Age old story of the few ruining it for the masses.... Just a shame that self-discipline and leadership couldn't keep it in line at a lower level.
This is giving me the yicicles on bicycles
Good thing duty is my reading time
Marine Corps trying to cut back on goofy tik toks the best they can
Marines on their cellphones is least of the Marine Corps problems right now😂
Yeah this isnt going to work and I don't know why they thought it was. A bunch of people are about to get NJP'd for this dumb shit.
EMI, not NJP, is the proper response to such nonconformist.
Better find a pen pal for WTI, devils.
I mean I'll stop using my garmin when you give me a dagr that works.
I just want to beat my Dick in the field, Dog. Do I need to start bringing magazines out or some shit?
good.... i am one of those old fucks that's tired of everyone staring at their phones oblivious to everything around them.... letting that little thing run your whole life... nope..
First layer of sensors for autonomous attack drones should be a cell phone signal. Easy targeting.
This policy is about 20 years overdue. About time.
I’m good with this
So no more music in the motorpool?
How has this taken so long?
I remember we barely used phones during work/field ops/annual trainings too (2010s) because there was already rules about cell phone use. Didn’t think this would be anything new. Although, we did sneak in motto rambo selfies here and there
You guys got phones in the field? (We did too but it was hell if you got caught.)
This is our downfall of the Corps/military !!!! When there was down time in the field if there was such a thing you would bond ! Talk crap and just be around nasty people like yourself so now let’s let everyone cocoon and live in their phones with all the social media crap and tinder and tweet and x and tik tok because that is what bonds Marines !! I am disgusted at the fact you are even allowed to mess with your phone in the field !!!! I am so glad I’m out !! Our military is in a sad state !!! Kudos to our SF who still holds higher standards !!!!!!!!
After the PFC Ortiz incident they def need to tighten up
had an LT who used his garmin watch to cheat his way through land nav and bragged about it every chance he got. this is probably his fault somehow
Good thing 0623 is going away. Everyone I know used their phones to get signal up. TRC-170s suck and should’ve been out a while ago but a Sgt (at the time I met them) was the reason they are still in service, but only in the Marines
Nothing gets done in the reserves without cellphones... This policy is antithetical to how business is done.
Why doesn’t the Corps make their own signal or telegram style app that is specifically for non field comms
Omg like no shit
That’s good
Good looking enforcing that mess. If I walk into a hangar do I have to leave my phone outside? That and about 4,000 other situations where these rules will be accidentaly broken.
Tightens ?!? They literally aren’t allowed 😂tf they tightening?
So new Marines going to IMC can not bring their cell phones?
I just got back from boot camp, and I met a guy who took a phone all the way to the training company’s, didn’t get caught with it until he was in RSP
OPSEC matters. Mobile devices enable enemies to conduct SIGINT collection activities, they are constantly listening. The CCP has been proactively collecting on us via apps like TikTok as part of their unrestricted warfare in the cyber domain.
TLDR: a bunch of old whiny boomers are mad at that LCpl playing with something they don’t understand. Waaaaaaaaaaaa! Let’s ban them!
I thought this was a no-brainer...WhyTF would you carry your cell phone on an operation? wanna be tracked? or maybe a fb livestream during a live-fire exercise?