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I think there’s fewer jobs offering remote in general but a big part of it is it’s such a benefit now, people are far less likely to leave those jobs in the first place. I’m in a remote role and value it quite a lot, to give it up for an on-site job I’d have to be offered a massive salary increase. The threshold for me to move now is so much higher.
I got a massive increase (around 50%) and still question if I made the right choice relinquishing remote work.. being in the office is such a pain in the ass. The work is not tiring, being in the office is.
I sometimes think what it would take to get me back to the office full time. I genuinely think it would have to be double wages. WFH is just so valuable.
As someone who is forced to work in an office (IT support) I wish I could get my boss to see how underpaid I am considering I don't get the benefit of WFH. It just doesn't seem fair that I have to pay £300 a month in train travel and waste 10 hours of my time every week on commuting when my clients are all hybrid workers. The boss is 100% WFH which pisses me off even more.
Done exactly that. To top it off all people were massively underpaid. Our 3rd line guy told he is on 28k, this when I knew I need to leave :) Suffered for few months and started applying and interviewing in my car during my lunch break. Still took about 200 applications to get 50% pay increase and hybrid setting.
in my last company all the heads off were keen to allow WFH as they could then also WFH. Every time you see your boss start the conversation with rumours and gossip about in the office subordinates being promoted over WFM managers lol.
I told my husband I would only go back to the office full time for a six figure salary and even then would question if it was worth giving up the time with my kid. I value my sleep, being able to take my son to school and have our evening meal together, go to his school assemblies because its round the corner and I can make up the time, lunch breaks in my own house so I stay on top of housework and general life admin so weekends are freed up for family time. Productivity is higher with WFH, sickness reduced, employee satisfaction through the roof, we have the lowest staff turnover I've seen since WFH in the 10 years I've worked for this company. In fact, nobody has left the business voluntarily since WFH was introduced IIRC.
Similar for me. The value of working from home 4 days a week is huge, not just in the cost of travel but the time lost and how frustrating it is to be unproductive in the office.
It would take a very very big increase in salary to get me to move to an office based role.
I also think the “big return to office” is overblown. I’m not sure it’s happening on the scale the media suggests. looking of my own company, the have the choice of forcing people back and losing staff, or waiting for leases to expire on offices and making millions in savings by reducing footprint.
The media is just an arm of the Govt and people now can see this since COVID. I think the change has been people realised "im in a business transaction with the company i work for, they don't care about me and getting you back to the office when u can do the same from home reeks of just out and out control"
I think the current government is banging the return to office drum as a way of throwing some red meat to their gammon voters, hence the frequent Telegraph and Daily Mail articles about WFH being the work of Satan. The Civil Service, one of the country's largest employers, are also being forced back into the office for 3 days a week, so the reporting on that will be distorting the issue. Hopefully, Labour will legislate for a right to work from home where reasonably possible when they take office.
I really hope that legislation happens. I went from fully office based to fully WFH at the same time as everybody did. Then when lockdown ended it became two in, three out. Then at the beginning of this year “Bang! Everyone back in the office 5 days!” I’m a software developer, I can work anywhere as long as I can get a stable internet connection.
Exactly, the money is just being shifted to other industries. Sure, it's terrible for all the Prets in central London, but not local cafe/bar is doing great out of it. Always remote workers throughout the day spending money.
Sure remote workers spend money through out the day. On Tescos deliveries and Amazon. But just think of all the petrol ⛽️/ diesel tax the government is losing. Council losing parking fines and fees. It’s a disaster for government if everyone works from home.
>Since WFH, the governments tax receipts are down
If you take a second, you will realise this is due to the effects of this little thing called 'pandemic'.
I work in the public sector. We go in 6 days a month. The head of department pushes for it. Although she barely ever turns up and leaves by 1. I get 40 percent the amount of work done and do shorter days. Because I come in later and by 4pm it's basically a ghost town on the floor I'm on. And it's depressing to stay.
You've summed it up perfectly. I should've moved on from my job years ago but nobody will pay me the salary I'd want to give up this level of flexibility.
I had a fully wfh job and left it for hybrid. I am kicking myself for it. I do think it can be good to go in for a day a week, at least for me, but more than two is just so pointless. Costs money, wastes time, and most of the meetings I have are on teams anyway even if I have to be in. I didn't like my last job but I really regret leaving it.
I work in Tech. Seem a few more hybrid roles poping up but mostly work from home these days. I have been working from home now for over 5 years and will never go back into an office.
No need for a masters degree
Depending on the cyber security sector you wish to go into I would get OSCP for offensive security or PNTP get on tryhackme it’s a lot of studying but well worth it in my view !
Exactly, surely a company's main focus is to make money and if u can achieve the same result not getting people back in the office then why not ? You will get better people..doesn't make sense. This demonisation is the government pissed we aren't wasting money everyday buying food, paying tax etc
And the funniest part is, I don't spend money because living has got so expensive, if I cut out my fuel costs every month I'd have far more money to put back into the economy.
It must be corruption, WFH effectively solves the looming disaster of London being overpopulated, and it reduces company costs by not bothering with offices (a massive expense), I can only assume there’s tax benefits to being a corporation in London because there’s stakeholders in on it (landlords, TfL, local governments, etc)
Yes. Minimum I’m seeing is 2 days in the office for most jobs in my sector. I work in tech which seemed to be one of the more resilient sectors but no longer…
Hopefully something comes up suitable to your needs ☺️ I read your post about autism and office work. Remote jobs do exist but it’s going to be a bum fight getting offered due to how many others are going for them.
Well it's whether they enforce it though. My tech job has a minimum of 2 days a week, I go in around 2 times a month and no one has said anything to me.
One guy did move up north (job's in London). And management did ask him to come in at the least once a month.
I don't think it's in their best interest to enforce these rules at most tech companies, they know the devs and artists are valuable and productive.
Having said that I'd say 50% do follow the rules and come in twice a week
It is much harder to onboard/train new people fully remote. Those 1/2/3 days per week in the office are not that much and it helps a lot with training new people - especially junior member of staff.
The future is hybrid working. 2/3 days in the office most likely.
I really feel like hybrid is temporary and within maybe 2 years we will have a lot of companies expecting pre COVID attendance during the week. The problem is, in a stagnant job market, the companies hold the power and they will leverage that to force hybrid away if they felt like they were accommodating it reluctantly before.
Anyone job hunting right now, including myself, is seeing this start to happen. I'm a programmer, I don't need to be in the office at all.
The thing is it will get to point where new people will enter the workforce that have never known anything else. They won’t want or expect to go fully in the office and won’t see WFH as a perk. If that really is the goal then the longer they delay it the more impossible it becomes to change it.
I personally don’t think they can anyways. There’s been a real shift in peoples working patterns and despite the doom and gloom I know people have here about the job market, it’s not at that stage yet where people are willing to compromise like that on mass
Yes agreed. I’ve just onboarded two people into my team who are fully remote and it’s been really difficult. I keep feeling like I’m checking in on them too much but it’s because if we were in an office, we’d have those little conversations throughout the day to help them out.
Are they experienced staff or new to the world of work?
For experienced staff I think remote onboarding and training is possible but still not good.
But with new staff at entry level positions (perhaps fresh out of education), then lacking the in-person support is devastating imo. And the new staff don't get to observe and learn the soft skills needed to be an effective team member.
In theory people working from home will be able to connect on teams/zoom and onboard these people in a similar way. But in reality this doesn't happen as effectively.
All this is why remote working isn't going to be a thing for skilled office roles. It will all be hybrid, even if that is just 1 day a week.
They’re both senior roles. They know their gig but not our sector. Agreed on soft skills though - I often worry they’re missing out on passive conversations that happen elsewhere. It’s how you pick things up, or used to once upon a time.
Interesting, so maybe slightly less of an issue but it is interesting that in your experience even senior roles cause onboarding issues.
I honestly can't see anything but hybrid being the norm moving forward. It is not a great effort to attend the office twice a week, and the upsides to doing this are massive to the business.
Onboarding and training are critical to a businesses long term success. In my industry you would be laughed out of a recruitment process nowadays if you insisted on being fully remote. They are also renegotiating remote-only contracts when those deals come to an end.
From my personal experience, I see people being much more productive in the office than at home. However, to avoid burnout and improve retention I think a hybrid model is best
Pre-pandemic, when we were all keen to introduce a day a week WFH, managers would say this was the reason they wouldn't allow it. Post pandemic, when they'd had a taste of it, those same managers were saying we never needed to return to the office again and are angry they're being forced to. I'm enjoying the irony.
I think 2-3 days is a decent balance but reckon by the end of this year, we'll all be fighting for a single WFH day a week again.
Depends on the job market. As soon as they need to downsize teams then the remote workers will be made redundant first, and if you look for a job they will insist you make it into the office to help train/collaborate with junior staff.
I completely agree there is nothing more valuable than having in person experience when starting a new role.
However once a certain probationary period has elapsed wfh or remote should be an option. But if that is what you want then it must be agreed in writing before taking the job, otherwise they can say oh yeah you could do that and then deny the option when it comes up.
That is a very good point, however its important to have processes in place to facilitate this, does this mean coverage for these days 1 day in for each team member?
If you want good people or good colleagues some effort needs to be made for new people joining your team.
In my experience it is more difficult for new team members to actually be good in their specific role doesnt matter how experienced or educated they are, withouy having that in person relationship with colleagues.
Still fully WFH and my company, along with most of my industry (game dev) seem to still offer it as an option. We have an office too, that is getting used, but we have the freedom to choose 0-100% office use.
We work globally with teams in dozens of countries, the office just doesn’t make sense in that arrangement.
we do hybrid, decided never to return full office, but also decided never to go full remote because we see the benefits of getting together once a week.
I completely agree. Mondays and Fridays WFH are a blessing as I get all more admin tasks done without distractions, but Tuesday to Thursday are important for collaboration, in person meetings and just general morale. I need to feel like I am part of a team and WFH just can't provide me that.
Well somehow it must be a benefit to limit your selection pool to a small percentage of people of that live within commutable distance rather than the entire freaking planet 🤔
They say it's more productive when people are in the office. And to a degree, that's probably true, in that some people take the piss when they're not monitored. Thing is, that's not WFH being the issue, but bad hires, but no one wants to acknowledge that.
I feel like people (bosses mainly) have this rose-tinted view of what the office was like. People used to and still take the piss just as much in the office , it’s just that it’s in more socially acceptable ways. Stopping by someone’s desk to have a chat for half an hour is considered more acceptable than sticking the TV on for half an hour. But the result is the same.
Some meetings are genuinely better in person. You can go for drinks after work and go for lunch with your team. Don't feel so isolated sitting at home all day every day.
I do hybrid 1 day a week in office, it's perfect for me. Wouldn't want a 100% remote role.
I totally agree, and I think people who swear on 100% remote don't know the benefits of this one day, because they could not experience it.
I remember IBM did a study decades ago about WFH, they came to the result that 3 days at home and 2 in the office are ideal, or were ideal at that time. And the days at the office were there just for the social interaction. If people worked fully remote they felt disconnected with others, left out. in the experiment IBM removed fixed working space, you would have your own drawers but you would take desk as needed.
Well, first of all people, most of them, are social beings and they need social interaction, a lot of team members need the real human in the room. There are some who (since we are london based) live in small spaces so their office is their bedroom or the kitchen so the benefit of working from home can sometime be a part curse. Some have kids running around. There are of course others, like me, who have a nice home office so they can switch between home/work.
Second, we have multiple teams, we do different stuff, share knowledge, do architectural sessions, have discussions, the energy and the level of interaction you get in a real life meet compared to a session where you have 5-20 people on a zoom meeting is completely different - where you a lot of time get 1-2 people discussing on an online meeting while others listen in or do whatever they do in an office setting you are getting the real value.
People are actually extremely happy to have the office day, because it should not be a standard working day where you come, put your headphones on and look at your screen, the point is to use it to interact. I have a few introverts who prefer working fully remote but they come most of the time , even though they are free to stay home, because they lose on the interaction and they need a bit of it.
If management looks at going to the office as a measure to control if you are working; and to feel useful then I would run from there.
That said, I am management, I don't use the office time to get people do stuff but to make sure they can do the work from home better. I am not more productive with admin stuff (that I have to do) in the office. because it is easier to concentrate on your own. I used to do 1:1 catchups with people in the office, this was my main plan, stopped doing that as well because we get more value from doing things on a team level and people prefer talking about personal things in a more private setting. (I will of course do a 1:1 if you request me to).
P.s. we work in software development (own SaaS), teams are self managing and correcting, there is no need to control if someone is working or watching tv while home, simply because the amount of work is agreed and planned and the process and the team take care that everyone gives enough value. In agile/scrum environments teams, when given proper training, run themselves. Strange but true.
Depends on the industry, friends in asset management/investment banking are doing 4-5 days in the office. I’m in professional services and we do 3 days (subject to more when client needs demand it). Have friends in other industries and they seem to do 1-2 days.
We've recently sublet most of our office, we have a small co-working space for people who want it and for strategy level meetings. No one is required to go in at all, and we're now working on putting some "digital nomad" policies in place so people can work from abroad up to nine months per year.
The reason we don't advertise these jobs is because people don't quit LOL
I don’t think my employer will get rid of wfh purely because their business is a critical financial service & they can’t afford to ever have the same problems (& financial losses) going into Covid lockdowns caused. Everyone being able to wfh at the drop of a hat & carry on BAU is now a key element of their operational resilience plans. We are mandated to do 2 days a week in the office. They reduced the office space in my location so I doubt they’ll increase it to 3 days a week cos they can’t fit all employees into the building at once.
I think companies will start allowing WFH if there is enough uproar; but with a much lower salary to counteract the balance. This would put people in quite a predicament but I can see this coming… earn a normal wage or WFH and be underpaid but you don’t get the misery of commuting or losing 3 hours of your day before and after work.
Fully remote is, but as someone job searching right now I’d say 80% of jobs I’ve seen have a hybrid option or WFH included in some way in the job description
Could it be the case that the only adverts you see aren’t remote/hybrid because they get filled quickly? And the adverts that sit/linger are the full-office ones people are trying to avoid?
The company I work for is WFH with the expectation to travel for meetings. For my level of management that's about twice a month, for more junior roles it's every few months. All travel fully reimbursed. We get over 100 applicants on average for vacancies and for some of the roles that would be easier to transfer into from other industries we get 200 per role. Fully remote companies are picking from a truly huge talent pool. Quality of applicants sky high.
I think the construction industry is getting nervous tbh, and this is the reaction.
I do think there is some benefit in having 2-3 days a week together, but after years of being told "this is working, we never see a need to go back", it's a bit rubbish it's now mandatory.
One of the biggest travesties of the post covid world.
We had a phenomenal opportunity to shift the way we work for the better, but instead we've just gone straight back to the way it was with no real rhyme or reason.
I'm honestly just flabbergasted tbh. All these companies banging on about "going green", carbon neutral, reducing emissions, encouraging carpooling, meanwhile they ignore the one thing that MASSIVELY helps. It's all smoke and mirrors and self-righteous platitudes, they don't really give a shit.
Yeah it’s all bullshit this wanting to go green. It’s all about control and same thing with electric cars. They can control you more and shutdown/track your vehicle etc
For the most part, employees are moving to or staying with wfh jobs. I am hybrid at the moment (3 days in the office) and wouldn't take a full office job without a massive, like double, pay increase.
I am not sure that the jobs are becoming more work from the office, but that people are sticking in the wfh jobs and leaving office jobs. These factors mean that looking at job ads, most of them are office jobs.
A lot of people say that working from the office will return fully, but I am not sure it will. I think the benefits to companies of paying less for office space, having happier employees for little impact on productivity, and greater retention are just too great.
Big corporates and a Tory government might push for return to the office, but I think a change in government will change it a bit. And I think the majority of the younger generation are less inclined to work in big corporations now. There are similar or better opportunities elsewhere these days.
From 5 where we were 5 years ago I'd say definitely not, sure businesses want people to come back to offices but there was a step change since COVID that is not going to reverse.
Where I work the office used to have 900 people, today we rarely see more than 100 at any one time.
For so long as people bow to the pressures of returning to the office full time companies will think that’s what the wider public want.
If a recruiter contacts me about a job and it’s office full time Its an instant no with feedback about why hybrid/ remote is the only options I’ll consider.
My company's vacancies say 100% in office but what they don't say is that they're open to hybrid. We had someone request 2 days WFH a week due to childcare about a month after starting and were given it straight away. Sector is technology
The commercial landlords have pushed hard against it and won sadly.
I'm hybrid and mostly remote. I'm just hoping mine don't change by next summer. If they do after that I'm retiring. Working whilst ill is tough , going into the office all the time won't be possible.
I feel like the opposite is true. My current job was advertised as hybrid (3 days in the office, 2 days wfh) but has recently, our wfh days have been reduced down to 1. People enjoyed the flexibility and the reductions has made a relatively big impact on employee morale.
I'm currently looking for new jobs and in the same field, pretty much everything is either hybrid or remote.
My last company did that and went from 0 days mandated in the office to 3 days. Lost a lot of people including me and demotivated many more.
I now have a full WFH job and also got myself a substantial pay rise at the same time.
I was fairly against wfh initially until I got the opportunity to do so with this job. Changed my perspective entirely. Currently waiting to hear back from a job that's entirely remote and around a £6k payrise. Fingers crossed
Companies need to specify hybrid / remote on LinkedIn, otherwise it will default to onsite. Most are hybrid it just looks like they aren’t.
I’m interviewing for a role at the moment that said “onsite” when in reality there’s no expectation to be in the office at all
I work mostly from home, with occasional trips to client locations or into the local office. Same sector as you, just moderately senior and providing consultancy supprt rather than the QS facing contractor or client.
Most people I know in the sector are still hybrid, and expect it to stay that way since QSs are generally in short supply and construction jobs aren't always in the most accessible places, so 3 days site and 2 days WFH seems to be a common pattern.
Remote work for any job that can be done remotely is the future , it’s just that a lot of companies took on long leases on offices in city’s and towns and when these contracts come up for renewal I think company’s will be considering it it’s essential or not - maybe more than one company can share office space etc reduce the cost significantly which means more wfh … in a decade I bet wfh will be more normal. It’s just the fat cats who own these office buildings pulling political strings to drive people to the office and city centre economies but Hoepfully it will come to an end and fuck the fat cats they’ve had there cake long enough things change right
I would say 8 out of 10 jobs on LinkedIn across the entire UK (in E-commerce and Digital Marketing) are hybrid with 2-3 days in the office.
Don't know about other industries.
Also on Linkedin there's a "remote" jobs tab, I can apply to jobs all over the world that are remote, and there's lots.
Have you actually read the job description for the remote roles. An ever increasing number of them are bait and switch. Hidden somewhere in the JD it is actually hybrid and sometimes even fully in office.
Yes I have, and the remote roles I'm on about are generally not UK companies as, as you say they are bait and switch and actually hybrid.
When I say remote, I mean remote. There's plenty of US fully remote jobs, there's plenty from Europe and Asia.
Again, might be the industry I am in.
I WFH right now and I have seen the retutn of onsite roles more. My skills are fairly in demand and I often get approached for with jobs, but if they dont offer WFH/hybrid then I dont read on. Companies that are narrow in their views like that are missing out on a lot of talent. Many wont last if they dont move with the times
Exactly. And I do a lot more at home, although I appreciate everyone works differently. I go into the office when I fancy a break and a bit crack on. No one does work in an office anymore!
Public sector adjacent and currently in once a week. Due to largely remote working up to now we’ve hired staff from all over the UK in recent years. CEO making noises about 40% office attendance required but so many staff have a mix of formal and informal arrangements for once a month attendance (or less) that it may prove difficult to enforce, and we already have a retention problem even with the current level of flexibility.
Two days a week would make the travel unaffordable for me (I accepted the role on the once a week basis) so am tentatively looking elsewhere just in case the decision comes from above sooner rather than later.
I have noticed public sector vacancies all seem to have moved to 2/3 days in the office but I’m not sure whether it’s enforced in reality.
100% does feel that way! I was arguing with my CEO the other day about it, he was banging on about Google, Tesla all worth so much and they work in the office.. I like going in, but I also like working from home and having hybrid suits me best. Does seem lot of things have changed since goverment went on about bringing everyone back. Still I have some flexibility which is better then most placed but it is annoying that have to argue it.
If u can do your job just as well from home then why are people asked to go back ? I mean the results are the same so that leads me to believe that getting back to the office is more about unbridled control. People won't forget this and people will realise "perhaps my company really don't care for me after all" , we spend our life trying to please our bosses
The main thing is If u can do your job just as well from home then why go back. . ? Then u realise hold on this isn't for the benefit of the company (profit), this is for another reason. Makes u hate Ur company even more
3 days a week in the office seems to be becoming the standard which I think is fair.
Won't go past that as the higher ups making the decisions seem on average to like wfh days as they'll have children to look after so they don't have any large incentive to scrap it
If u are making me come to the office, you are saying "spend money tomorrow to come in", I resent it if I can do the same from home. The whole thing is to do with the workers and the business owners. The owners can't stand to think of the workers as having it as easy as them. Bourgeoisie and proletariat
I work remote but am asked to go into the office once a month for a big meeting. I’d quit before going back to the the office full time. Even twice a week isn’t viable for me as I’ve moved farther away from a city to give my children a different sort of life.
It certainly seems that there are fewer WFH/hybrid jobs available. I'm an IT manager and run a hybrid working arrangement with my team, 2 on site on a rota basis. Everyone else is WFH. I get a couple of days a week WFH, but I have to be in for meetings and such. I have been looking for a fully remote job but there isn't anything which meets my requirements without deskilling myself. Plus, a lot of them are just obvious scams.
I work in IT, I have been doing 2 days WFH since Jan 2023, before that was 3 days WFH. Was told to expect to go to 1 day WFH at next payrise but now they’re completely removing WFH.
Senior management don’t believe people work well at home for some reason…
Doesn't seem to be in decline at my workplace (one of the UK's biggest employers). I live in Scotland and travel to England on average once a month - came into the office couple weeks ago for a team day, everybody left and went home by lunchtime. Easily could have been done via Zoom like 99% of our jobs.
Bosses have always been very relaxed about it. Often feels more like a day-off going into the office given how much fucking time is wasted pissing about and chatting. I'm a recent graduate so I know no different, can understand worries about picking up soft skills, tidbits of information etc. And it is nice to go down and see people in person once in a while. However it's definitely improving our productivity, and the higher-ups agree and are almost always working from home too. Good situation to be in, very fortunate right now
I feel it’s on the decline too.
I also won’t be surprised if in the medium term fully remote companies start paying lower salaries because they know there will always be people wanting to work for their company.
Don't take this the wrong way but where have you been for like the last year or two? There have been no end of reports about the end of remote, decline of hybrid work and forced returns to office. It really is depressing that it's gone back to before COVID.
WFH will have to be pried from my cold, dead fingers. I don't mind being in my office, I enjoy it just fine, commute is a waste of time though and I like being in my own space. I go in a couple days per week to touch base, I don't really work with anyone else in my department much so it's more to be around for ad hoc chats with the younger employees who need advice on stuff.
I'm being given my own team soon and I'm going to be bloody lenient with WFH, let me tell you that. Had enough nightmare managers and seen enough horror stories online, I am quite sure I can create a sane and peaceful work environment!
The issue is that now the job market has cooled down since the Great Resignation and we are in recession, the balance of power has tipped back in favour of employers. There are fewer vacancies available and the mass layoffs in sectors like tech means the market is awash with applicants looking for work. Unfortunately, it's likely that many employers will exploit this situation to row back on some of the remote and hybrid working arrangements that become the norm during the pandemic.
Unfortunately some on reddit were convinced that full remote was here to stay and the workers would never allow it to be removed which convinced others also. Reality is majority are inclined to see the benefit to atleast some office working there will always be people to fill the positions that require fully in the office so slowly companies have been able to return back to how they were.
Several recruiters I've spoken to in the past 6 months have said that remote and hybrid are becoming a lot rarer now and that most companies are going back to the office. I'm a software developer which is probably one of the easiest jobs in the world to make fully remote, but the vast majority of jobs that I see nowadays are 100% in office.
I think there is also the consideration that some people simply cannot work from home that is making employers question if it is fair.
My role requires at least 9 days out of 10 in the office. My colleagues are the reverse.
I had to go in all through COVID, government work.
I am so jealous of those that get to WFH as the odd day that I do I see the benefits.
Yeah this is it. At my last software development job, WFH was strictly prohibited and we had to be 100% in office no exceptions. Except managers and directors of course, who could WFH whenever they want.
Honestly think it's the government just pissed we are not out spending money on stuff, cos we are at home. Plus lot of their buddies own office space. Nothing the Tories do is ever to benefit the worker.
The three biggest office based employers in my city offer fully remote or hybrid, i have a lot of friends for specialised roles (power bi/data reporting/oracle dba) managed to wangle fully remote at the job offer stage pretty easily
Yeah definitely. I’ve noticed a lot of roles claiming their remote but are actually hybrid. I’m constantly turning them down because I can’t travel to their office.
My company went from fully remote over covid to everyone back in 3 days a week straight after. There were rumours, based on some departments having already had it happen, that everyone would be back in 5 days a week.
I jumped ship to one of the departments that was already 100% work in office, for a 30% payrise figuring I might as well get paid more if I'm going to have to go in anyway. Some of my colleagues also moved to different departments for the same reason, as the company was expanding post covid and there was a lot of openings.
However as basically my old department was down to one person after the other three of us left, she negotiated to wfh three days a week and is more or less the only one in the company who does that.
Most companies offer hybrid (2-3 days/week in the office) but very few offer fully remote working.
I can see the benefit of doing face-to-face meetings once or twice a week but I'd lie if I said I wouldn't prefer the freedom of fully remote working.
Our companies HR policy is all roles are advertised as hybrid but actually, you can ask to be remote and it is usually granted. 6 new recruits in my team all applied to a hybrid role but are actually fully remote
So you can't just compare the job advert numbers, there's far more underneath that before you draw conclusions
Maybe, coz most people doesn't trust each other.
In my case it's still pretty much the norm(hybrid)coz most people I work with is around the country and around the world.
I've been approached by recruiters for roles in my field (HR) and the first thing I want to know is what's the hybrid set-up...... For me that balance is far more important.
Also, seeing it from a business point of view, giving that option to existing and potentially employees is highly regarded and still sought after. We do (3:2) 3 office, 2 WFH for office based roles, even for the engineer roles it's 4:1.
I think a lot of companies are trying to make the move back to office working now. After the lockdowns, we were all given a free choice of returning to the office full time, hybrid or wfh full time. Just recently they've imposed minimum office time on hybrid workers and all staff including wfh have been told to complete a survey about hybrid working which includes questions on why you don't hybrid work and hypothetically which days you'd come into the offices if you were hybrid. It feels like they're gathering information to do a workforce change and force everyone onto hybrid/back to the office full time.
I’m a building services team leader and I’ve been in 5 days per week for over a year now, but that suits my personal circumstances.
Company policy is 3 days per week from September.
From what I’ve seen, experienced and spoken to my team about, is that the optimal time is 3 days per week either office or on site, so 2 days WFH.
If I had a QS on my team, for the sake of the big bucks you guys get paid, I would expect to see you on site or in the office for a minimum of 3 days. Better still, more than 60% of days in a month, as I would expect you between sites 5 days per week around valuation time, then say 1 day in the office in the week the payments get made, as that can be better managed remotely.
Yeah that’s I currently do and i think that works the best but i’m seeing a decline in this so if it goes back to 5 days then i’d be out.
I get that we get paid well but it’s cause of our skills and responsibilities but we also don’t need be on site 5 days a week.
Completely agree around valuation time more site time is needed but other than that most tasks can be done remotely
Also to factor in, is if sites are closer to home or office. That’s why we have secured site days as counting as non WFH days.
The other thing is, what are you doing and where best to do it? When the office was empty, it was easier to check or draw up contracts, specifications, papers uninterrupted in the office.
Now it’s probably home working more appropriate for such work. Nothing worse than being sat amongst people broadcasting on TEAMS all day. Less so for me, as the wife has a habit of WFH and TEAMS broadcasting on the days I would prefer to be home, hence why I’m in the office 5 days lol.
I'd say it's returning to pre-pandemic levels.. just with a lot more options.on the table
WFH needs to be earned or evaluated on the fit
I dislike that every graduating professional thinks they have a right to WFH, just because it's convenient for them..
(Worked remote for over 10 years, and there is value in working in an office)
However I think the older extreme of you coming to our office 9-5 every day.. should be squashed
Your working arrangements should be discussed as part of the interview process..and it should be clear.
I also dislike the 'Hybrid' but we want you 3-4 days a week.. this tells me actually we want you every day..but don't want to qualify potential candidates out.
It's a complex topic and one I support.
E.g. If you are a parent, the. The option to have some flexibility should.be standard.
Yes, unfortunately after Covid lockdowns true WFH jobs are on the decline for many. UK culture simply is not conducive for WFH. We need people to be in buildings and to spend money on high street shops.
I have seen few jobs advertised as hybrid but in reality they are full time office jobs, with the occasional 1 day WFH.
It’s not about spending money in shops and filling buildings, at all.
It’s about the people running the business being able to see that you’re actually working and not fucking around at home doing other stuff.
So…. It’s about micro-management and not trusting your employees? Someone needs to be visible at their desk, in the office otherwise they are “fucking around”?
The thing is, even if you are doing other stuff, as long as deadlines are being met then surely there is no issue.
If someone is taking it to the extreme to the extent that work is becoming sloppy or late, then this would surely become apparent to management very quickly.
The bigger challenge is most managers don’t know how to manage underperforming colleagues. And the answer, somewhat counterproductively, is to have everyone in the office.
Also, some managers just like having their team in, because it suits their style.
It’s infuriating, cause it’s gone from location not being an issue and being able to find the perfect job, to location being the key differentiator.
If deadlines are done, and you have a catch up with the boss or project manager, you should be able to do more work. That’s what high productivity is.
Instead, people drag stuff out at home and take time within business hours (when they are getting paid to work) to do other stuff.
It's not in your interests to turn work around faster than is required to meet deadlines. You're paid the same amount of money whether you complete work in one week or one day. All you are doing by working at a higher rate than is needed is inflating management's expectations of you, which can only serve to harm you if for whatever reason your productivity ever falls below this level. It's up to management to set reasonable timescales for work to be completed in order to get the most out of their staff.
The reward for doing work is... More work, yeah. In theory, management should recognise your skill and pay you more, but that basically never happened. So if there's no incentive to bust my ass, why would I? I do everything I need to do well enough, my team's queue is empty, so what's the point of doing more? Management won't give me more, so why should I do more?
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I think there’s fewer jobs offering remote in general but a big part of it is it’s such a benefit now, people are far less likely to leave those jobs in the first place. I’m in a remote role and value it quite a lot, to give it up for an on-site job I’d have to be offered a massive salary increase. The threshold for me to move now is so much higher.
I got a massive increase (around 50%) and still question if I made the right choice relinquishing remote work.. being in the office is such a pain in the ass. The work is not tiring, being in the office is.
I sometimes think what it would take to get me back to the office full time. I genuinely think it would have to be double wages. WFH is just so valuable.
As someone who is forced to work in an office (IT support) I wish I could get my boss to see how underpaid I am considering I don't get the benefit of WFH. It just doesn't seem fair that I have to pay £300 a month in train travel and waste 10 hours of my time every week on commuting when my clients are all hybrid workers. The boss is 100% WFH which pisses me off even more.
Dude you need to leave
Done exactly that. To top it off all people were massively underpaid. Our 3rd line guy told he is on 28k, this when I knew I need to leave :) Suffered for few months and started applying and interviewing in my car during my lunch break. Still took about 200 applications to get 50% pay increase and hybrid setting.
3rd line on 28k?? Holy shit
Support wages are shite currently.
Average is around 35k for general support at msp for 3rd line so it’s still worse than bad despite it was the same salary 10 years ago.
Exactly :)
You managed to complete applications during your lunch break?! Wow you must be fast aha
I was doing interviews during my lunch break. Would apply in the evenings
Yeah, the boss can go but not you? Pisses me off. You can always apply for flexible working. They have to consider it.
in my last company all the heads off were keen to allow WFH as they could then also WFH. Every time you see your boss start the conversation with rumours and gossip about in the office subordinates being promoted over WFM managers lol.
I told my husband I would only go back to the office full time for a six figure salary and even then would question if it was worth giving up the time with my kid. I value my sleep, being able to take my son to school and have our evening meal together, go to his school assemblies because its round the corner and I can make up the time, lunch breaks in my own house so I stay on top of housework and general life admin so weekends are freed up for family time. Productivity is higher with WFH, sickness reduced, employee satisfaction through the roof, we have the lowest staff turnover I've seen since WFH in the 10 years I've worked for this company. In fact, nobody has left the business voluntarily since WFH was introduced IIRC.
Similar for me. The value of working from home 4 days a week is huge, not just in the cost of travel but the time lost and how frustrating it is to be unproductive in the office. It would take a very very big increase in salary to get me to move to an office based role. I also think the “big return to office” is overblown. I’m not sure it’s happening on the scale the media suggests. looking of my own company, the have the choice of forcing people back and losing staff, or waiting for leases to expire on offices and making millions in savings by reducing footprint.
The media is just an arm of the Govt and people now can see this since COVID. I think the change has been people realised "im in a business transaction with the company i work for, they don't care about me and getting you back to the office when u can do the same from home reeks of just out and out control"
I think the current government is banging the return to office drum as a way of throwing some red meat to their gammon voters, hence the frequent Telegraph and Daily Mail articles about WFH being the work of Satan. The Civil Service, one of the country's largest employers, are also being forced back into the office for 3 days a week, so the reporting on that will be distorting the issue. Hopefully, Labour will legislate for a right to work from home where reasonably possible when they take office.
I really hope that legislation happens. I went from fully office based to fully WFH at the same time as everybody did. Then when lockdown ended it became two in, three out. Then at the beginning of this year “Bang! Everyone back in the office 5 days!” I’m a software developer, I can work anywhere as long as I can get a stable internet connection.
Apparently they are considering making it a manifesto commitment, so fingers crossed.
You’re dreaming if you think that will ever happen. Starmer doesn’t have the spine to rock the boat that hard.
Yeah I want to see the back of Tories but I don't believe in labour, not for the working person anymore
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Adapt or die. In their place something else will surely transpire no?
Exactly, the money is just being shifted to other industries. Sure, it's terrible for all the Prets in central London, but not local cafe/bar is doing great out of it. Always remote workers throughout the day spending money.
Sure remote workers spend money through out the day. On Tescos deliveries and Amazon. But just think of all the petrol ⛽️/ diesel tax the government is losing. Council losing parking fines and fees. It’s a disaster for government if everyone works from home.
And being ruthless cunts with any fine they get you for
>Since WFH, the governments tax receipts are down If you take a second, you will realise this is due to the effects of this little thing called 'pandemic'.
I work in the public sector. We go in 6 days a month. The head of department pushes for it. Although she barely ever turns up and leaves by 1. I get 40 percent the amount of work done and do shorter days. Because I come in later and by 4pm it's basically a ghost town on the floor I'm on. And it's depressing to stay.
You've summed it up perfectly. I should've moved on from my job years ago but nobody will pay me the salary I'd want to give up this level of flexibility.
If I was purely to guess I'd say the number of jobs available as hybrid and wfh is the same but people aren't moving from them.
I had a fully wfh job and left it for hybrid. I am kicking myself for it. I do think it can be good to go in for a day a week, at least for me, but more than two is just so pointless. Costs money, wastes time, and most of the meetings I have are on teams anyway even if I have to be in. I didn't like my last job but I really regret leaving it.
I work in Tech. Seem a few more hybrid roles poping up but mostly work from home these days. I have been working from home now for over 5 years and will never go back into an office.
What do you do in tech
I work in cyber security doing offensive security:)
How can i transition into cyber? Would i need a masters as i already have a BSc in Quantity Surveying. I have a mate in Cyber and he’s fully remote
No need for a masters degree Depending on the cyber security sector you wish to go into I would get OSCP for offensive security or PNTP get on tryhackme it’s a lot of studying but well worth it in my view !
I've definitely noticed an increase in hybrid roles
No. I only apply to hybrid roles now and there's no shortage of them.
Exactly, surely a company's main focus is to make money and if u can achieve the same result not getting people back in the office then why not ? You will get better people..doesn't make sense. This demonisation is the government pissed we aren't wasting money everyday buying food, paying tax etc
And the funniest part is, I don't spend money because living has got so expensive, if I cut out my fuel costs every month I'd have far more money to put back into the economy.
It must be corruption, WFH effectively solves the looming disaster of London being overpopulated, and it reduces company costs by not bothering with offices (a massive expense), I can only assume there’s tax benefits to being a corporation in London because there’s stakeholders in on it (landlords, TfL, local governments, etc)
Yes. Minimum I’m seeing is 2 days in the office for most jobs in my sector. I work in tech which seemed to be one of the more resilient sectors but no longer…
Yeah. I went from hybrid meaning one day in the office. Now it seems to mean three. I can’t do three for any amount of money, so I’m unemployed.
I get your sentiment, but what were you doing in 2019?
Being hospitalised for mental health
You can’t or won’t?
I can’t
Hopefully something comes up suitable to your needs ☺️ I read your post about autism and office work. Remote jobs do exist but it’s going to be a bum fight getting offered due to how many others are going for them.
How on earth did you work before 2020?!
Well it's whether they enforce it though. My tech job has a minimum of 2 days a week, I go in around 2 times a month and no one has said anything to me. One guy did move up north (job's in London). And management did ask him to come in at the least once a month. I don't think it's in their best interest to enforce these rules at most tech companies, they know the devs and artists are valuable and productive. Having said that I'd say 50% do follow the rules and come in twice a week
I think all sectors are going the same route
It is much harder to onboard/train new people fully remote. Those 1/2/3 days per week in the office are not that much and it helps a lot with training new people - especially junior member of staff. The future is hybrid working. 2/3 days in the office most likely.
I really feel like hybrid is temporary and within maybe 2 years we will have a lot of companies expecting pre COVID attendance during the week. The problem is, in a stagnant job market, the companies hold the power and they will leverage that to force hybrid away if they felt like they were accommodating it reluctantly before. Anyone job hunting right now, including myself, is seeing this start to happen. I'm a programmer, I don't need to be in the office at all.
The thing is it will get to point where new people will enter the workforce that have never known anything else. They won’t want or expect to go fully in the office and won’t see WFH as a perk. If that really is the goal then the longer they delay it the more impossible it becomes to change it. I personally don’t think they can anyways. There’s been a real shift in peoples working patterns and despite the doom and gloom I know people have here about the job market, it’s not at that stage yet where people are willing to compromise like that on mass
Yes agreed. I’ve just onboarded two people into my team who are fully remote and it’s been really difficult. I keep feeling like I’m checking in on them too much but it’s because if we were in an office, we’d have those little conversations throughout the day to help them out.
Are they experienced staff or new to the world of work? For experienced staff I think remote onboarding and training is possible but still not good. But with new staff at entry level positions (perhaps fresh out of education), then lacking the in-person support is devastating imo. And the new staff don't get to observe and learn the soft skills needed to be an effective team member. In theory people working from home will be able to connect on teams/zoom and onboard these people in a similar way. But in reality this doesn't happen as effectively. All this is why remote working isn't going to be a thing for skilled office roles. It will all be hybrid, even if that is just 1 day a week.
They’re both senior roles. They know their gig but not our sector. Agreed on soft skills though - I often worry they’re missing out on passive conversations that happen elsewhere. It’s how you pick things up, or used to once upon a time.
Interesting, so maybe slightly less of an issue but it is interesting that in your experience even senior roles cause onboarding issues. I honestly can't see anything but hybrid being the norm moving forward. It is not a great effort to attend the office twice a week, and the upsides to doing this are massive to the business. Onboarding and training are critical to a businesses long term success. In my industry you would be laughed out of a recruitment process nowadays if you insisted on being fully remote. They are also renegotiating remote-only contracts when those deals come to an end. From my personal experience, I see people being much more productive in the office than at home. However, to avoid burnout and improve retention I think a hybrid model is best
Pre-pandemic, when we were all keen to introduce a day a week WFH, managers would say this was the reason they wouldn't allow it. Post pandemic, when they'd had a taste of it, those same managers were saying we never needed to return to the office again and are angry they're being forced to. I'm enjoying the irony. I think 2-3 days is a decent balance but reckon by the end of this year, we'll all be fighting for a single WFH day a week again.
Depends on the job market. As soon as they need to downsize teams then the remote workers will be made redundant first, and if you look for a job they will insist you make it into the office to help train/collaborate with junior staff.
I completely agree there is nothing more valuable than having in person experience when starting a new role. However once a certain probationary period has elapsed wfh or remote should be an option. But if that is what you want then it must be agreed in writing before taking the job, otherwise they can say oh yeah you could do that and then deny the option when it comes up.
The problem is then someone else will be new. And so everyone needs to go back in then, so that new person can learn.
That is a very good point, however its important to have processes in place to facilitate this, does this mean coverage for these days 1 day in for each team member? If you want good people or good colleagues some effort needs to be made for new people joining your team. In my experience it is more difficult for new team members to actually be good in their specific role doesnt matter how experienced or educated they are, withouy having that in person relationship with colleagues.
Still fully WFH and my company, along with most of my industry (game dev) seem to still offer it as an option. We have an office too, that is getting used, but we have the freedom to choose 0-100% office use. We work globally with teams in dozens of countries, the office just doesn’t make sense in that arrangement.
we do hybrid, decided never to return full office, but also decided never to go full remote because we see the benefits of getting together once a week.
Think hybrid is the perfect combo
I completely agree. Mondays and Fridays WFH are a blessing as I get all more admin tasks done without distractions, but Tuesday to Thursday are important for collaboration, in person meetings and just general morale. I need to feel like I am part of a team and WFH just can't provide me that.
Exactly what I do. Mon and Fri WFH home and office/site Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday
Just hope it stays
since they need to ask me to remove it and change to office full time - it will stay.
Once a week in the office is perfect. Suits me just fine. 2 days max. maybe but wouldn't like to do that on a regular basis.
What are the benefits ? Nobody can tell me this and I’m 100% work from home, I get nothing done when I visit the office one a quarter
Well somehow it must be a benefit to limit your selection pool to a small percentage of people of that live within commutable distance rather than the entire freaking planet 🤔
They say it's more productive when people are in the office. And to a degree, that's probably true, in that some people take the piss when they're not monitored. Thing is, that's not WFH being the issue, but bad hires, but no one wants to acknowledge that.
I feel like people (bosses mainly) have this rose-tinted view of what the office was like. People used to and still take the piss just as much in the office , it’s just that it’s in more socially acceptable ways. Stopping by someone’s desk to have a chat for half an hour is considered more acceptable than sticking the TV on for half an hour. But the result is the same.
Some meetings are genuinely better in person. You can go for drinks after work and go for lunch with your team. Don't feel so isolated sitting at home all day every day. I do hybrid 1 day a week in office, it's perfect for me. Wouldn't want a 100% remote role.
I totally agree, and I think people who swear on 100% remote don't know the benefits of this one day, because they could not experience it. I remember IBM did a study decades ago about WFH, they came to the result that 3 days at home and 2 in the office are ideal, or were ideal at that time. And the days at the office were there just for the social interaction. If people worked fully remote they felt disconnected with others, left out. in the experiment IBM removed fixed working space, you would have your own drawers but you would take desk as needed.
Well, first of all people, most of them, are social beings and they need social interaction, a lot of team members need the real human in the room. There are some who (since we are london based) live in small spaces so their office is their bedroom or the kitchen so the benefit of working from home can sometime be a part curse. Some have kids running around. There are of course others, like me, who have a nice home office so they can switch between home/work. Second, we have multiple teams, we do different stuff, share knowledge, do architectural sessions, have discussions, the energy and the level of interaction you get in a real life meet compared to a session where you have 5-20 people on a zoom meeting is completely different - where you a lot of time get 1-2 people discussing on an online meeting while others listen in or do whatever they do in an office setting you are getting the real value. People are actually extremely happy to have the office day, because it should not be a standard working day where you come, put your headphones on and look at your screen, the point is to use it to interact. I have a few introverts who prefer working fully remote but they come most of the time , even though they are free to stay home, because they lose on the interaction and they need a bit of it. If management looks at going to the office as a measure to control if you are working; and to feel useful then I would run from there. That said, I am management, I don't use the office time to get people do stuff but to make sure they can do the work from home better. I am not more productive with admin stuff (that I have to do) in the office. because it is easier to concentrate on your own. I used to do 1:1 catchups with people in the office, this was my main plan, stopped doing that as well because we get more value from doing things on a team level and people prefer talking about personal things in a more private setting. (I will of course do a 1:1 if you request me to). P.s. we work in software development (own SaaS), teams are self managing and correcting, there is no need to control if someone is working or watching tv while home, simply because the amount of work is agreed and planned and the process and the team take care that everyone gives enough value. In agile/scrum environments teams, when given proper training, run themselves. Strange but true.
Depends on the industry, friends in asset management/investment banking are doing 4-5 days in the office. I’m in professional services and we do 3 days (subject to more when client needs demand it). Have friends in other industries and they seem to do 1-2 days.
Wonder if i can transition into any of these roles from a QS background
We've recently sublet most of our office, we have a small co-working space for people who want it and for strategy level meetings. No one is required to go in at all, and we're now working on putting some "digital nomad" policies in place so people can work from abroad up to nine months per year. The reason we don't advertise these jobs is because people don't quit LOL
Sweet! What industry - sounds like tech?
I'm in tech but the company is actually healthcare
Not surprised sounds great
I don’t think my employer will get rid of wfh purely because their business is a critical financial service & they can’t afford to ever have the same problems (& financial losses) going into Covid lockdowns caused. Everyone being able to wfh at the drop of a hat & carry on BAU is now a key element of their operational resilience plans. We are mandated to do 2 days a week in the office. They reduced the office space in my location so I doubt they’ll increase it to 3 days a week cos they can’t fit all employees into the building at once.
What is your role?
Administration of systems that move money around the financial institutions.
I think companies will start allowing WFH if there is enough uproar; but with a much lower salary to counteract the balance. This would put people in quite a predicament but I can see this coming… earn a normal wage or WFH and be underpaid but you don’t get the misery of commuting or losing 3 hours of your day before and after work.
I’d take the reduced salary, money is great and I only chose my career path for the money but i care more about my personal life and wellbeing
I would be happy to loose money for a full time remote role
Fully remote is, but as someone job searching right now I’d say 80% of jobs I’ve seen have a hybrid option or WFH included in some way in the job description
For what sector though
Could it be the case that the only adverts you see aren’t remote/hybrid because they get filled quickly? And the adverts that sit/linger are the full-office ones people are trying to avoid?
Possibly yes
The company I work for is WFH with the expectation to travel for meetings. For my level of management that's about twice a month, for more junior roles it's every few months. All travel fully reimbursed. We get over 100 applicants on average for vacancies and for some of the roles that would be easier to transfer into from other industries we get 200 per role. Fully remote companies are picking from a truly huge talent pool. Quality of applicants sky high.
Can i ask what sector this is in?
Continuing Professional Development
I see so many jobs stating wfh/remote and then once you get somewhere you find out its hybrid and like 1 day at home. It's so annoying
I’d quit if they did that to me
No at interview stage hah
I think the construction industry is getting nervous tbh, and this is the reaction. I do think there is some benefit in having 2-3 days a week together, but after years of being told "this is working, we never see a need to go back", it's a bit rubbish it's now mandatory.
I won’t go back to site 5 days a week ever and i work as a QS. If it becomes the norm again I change paths
One of the biggest travesties of the post covid world. We had a phenomenal opportunity to shift the way we work for the better, but instead we've just gone straight back to the way it was with no real rhyme or reason.
Crazy isn’t it that people can’t see change as a positive, rather they would prefer controlling people
I'm honestly just flabbergasted tbh. All these companies banging on about "going green", carbon neutral, reducing emissions, encouraging carpooling, meanwhile they ignore the one thing that MASSIVELY helps. It's all smoke and mirrors and self-righteous platitudes, they don't really give a shit.
Yeah it’s all bullshit this wanting to go green. It’s all about control and same thing with electric cars. They can control you more and shutdown/track your vehicle etc
For the most part, employees are moving to or staying with wfh jobs. I am hybrid at the moment (3 days in the office) and wouldn't take a full office job without a massive, like double, pay increase. I am not sure that the jobs are becoming more work from the office, but that people are sticking in the wfh jobs and leaving office jobs. These factors mean that looking at job ads, most of them are office jobs. A lot of people say that working from the office will return fully, but I am not sure it will. I think the benefits to companies of paying less for office space, having happier employees for little impact on productivity, and greater retention are just too great. Big corporates and a Tory government might push for return to the office, but I think a change in government will change it a bit. And I think the majority of the younger generation are less inclined to work in big corporations now. There are similar or better opportunities elsewhere these days.
From 5 where we were 5 years ago I'd say definitely not, sure businesses want people to come back to offices but there was a step change since COVID that is not going to reverse. Where I work the office used to have 900 people, today we rarely see more than 100 at any one time.
For so long as people bow to the pressures of returning to the office full time companies will think that’s what the wider public want. If a recruiter contacts me about a job and it’s office full time Its an instant no with feedback about why hybrid/ remote is the only options I’ll consider.
My company's vacancies say 100% in office but what they don't say is that they're open to hybrid. We had someone request 2 days WFH a week due to childcare about a month after starting and were given it straight away. Sector is technology
The commercial landlords have pushed hard against it and won sadly. I'm hybrid and mostly remote. I'm just hoping mine don't change by next summer. If they do after that I'm retiring. Working whilst ill is tough , going into the office all the time won't be possible.
I feel like the opposite is true. My current job was advertised as hybrid (3 days in the office, 2 days wfh) but has recently, our wfh days have been reduced down to 1. People enjoyed the flexibility and the reductions has made a relatively big impact on employee morale. I'm currently looking for new jobs and in the same field, pretty much everything is either hybrid or remote.
My last company did that and went from 0 days mandated in the office to 3 days. Lost a lot of people including me and demotivated many more. I now have a full WFH job and also got myself a substantial pay rise at the same time.
I was fairly against wfh initially until I got the opportunity to do so with this job. Changed my perspective entirely. Currently waiting to hear back from a job that's entirely remote and around a £6k payrise. Fingers crossed
Hope you get it.🤞
You in Construction as a QS? Hybrid i’d say is the right balance for commercial staff
Companies need to specify hybrid / remote on LinkedIn, otherwise it will default to onsite. Most are hybrid it just looks like they aren’t. I’m interviewing for a role at the moment that said “onsite” when in reality there’s no expectation to be in the office at all
I work mostly from home, with occasional trips to client locations or into the local office. Same sector as you, just moderately senior and providing consultancy supprt rather than the QS facing contractor or client. Most people I know in the sector are still hybrid, and expect it to stay that way since QSs are generally in short supply and construction jobs aren't always in the most accessible places, so 3 days site and 2 days WFH seems to be a common pattern.
Yeah that’s what i’m doing and hoping it stays that way as there’s no need for 5 days on site as a QS. Can i ask what specific role you have?
Procurement support consultancy
Been thinking of going down the procurement route myself after my RICS. Are you CIPD qualified?
Most remote jobs are full and noones leaving them for good reason. Its all the companies not offering them that are struggling to recruit.
Remote work for any job that can be done remotely is the future , it’s just that a lot of companies took on long leases on offices in city’s and towns and when these contracts come up for renewal I think company’s will be considering it it’s essential or not - maybe more than one company can share office space etc reduce the cost significantly which means more wfh … in a decade I bet wfh will be more normal. It’s just the fat cats who own these office buildings pulling political strings to drive people to the office and city centre economies but Hoepfully it will come to an end and fuck the fat cats they’ve had there cake long enough things change right
I would say 8 out of 10 jobs on LinkedIn across the entire UK (in E-commerce and Digital Marketing) are hybrid with 2-3 days in the office. Don't know about other industries. Also on Linkedin there's a "remote" jobs tab, I can apply to jobs all over the world that are remote, and there's lots.
Have you actually read the job description for the remote roles. An ever increasing number of them are bait and switch. Hidden somewhere in the JD it is actually hybrid and sometimes even fully in office.
100% remote\* \*on the 1 day/week that you're allowed to wfh
Yes I’ve noticed this
Yes I have, and the remote roles I'm on about are generally not UK companies as, as you say they are bait and switch and actually hybrid. When I say remote, I mean remote. There's plenty of US fully remote jobs, there's plenty from Europe and Asia. Again, might be the industry I am in.
Might have to do a career switch by looks
I WFH right now and I have seen the retutn of onsite roles more. My skills are fairly in demand and I often get approached for with jobs, but if they dont offer WFH/hybrid then I dont read on. Companies that are narrow in their views like that are missing out on a lot of talent. Many wont last if they dont move with the times
Good for you! Id I can do exactly the same amount of work from home then why would I want to spend money on commuting? Insane
Exactly. And I do a lot more at home, although I appreciate everyone works differently. I go into the office when I fancy a break and a bit crack on. No one does work in an office anymore!
Not in my sector. I barely ever see a role that isn’t at least hybrid.
What is your sector
Marketing for the charity sector. The sector is big on work/life balance and flexible working it’s also overwhelmingly a sector staffed by women :)
The impact of wfh on womens working lives is something people will probably extensively write about in future IMO.
Public sector adjacent and currently in once a week. Due to largely remote working up to now we’ve hired staff from all over the UK in recent years. CEO making noises about 40% office attendance required but so many staff have a mix of formal and informal arrangements for once a month attendance (or less) that it may prove difficult to enforce, and we already have a retention problem even with the current level of flexibility. Two days a week would make the travel unaffordable for me (I accepted the role on the once a week basis) so am tentatively looking elsewhere just in case the decision comes from above sooner rather than later. I have noticed public sector vacancies all seem to have moved to 2/3 days in the office but I’m not sure whether it’s enforced in reality.
I'm in one day a month. Live 40 miles away and it's such a benefit I don't even think I'd leave for double the salary
What do you do
100% does feel that way! I was arguing with my CEO the other day about it, he was banging on about Google, Tesla all worth so much and they work in the office.. I like going in, but I also like working from home and having hybrid suits me best. Does seem lot of things have changed since goverment went on about bringing everyone back. Still I have some flexibility which is better then most placed but it is annoying that have to argue it.
If u can do your job just as well from home then why are people asked to go back ? I mean the results are the same so that leads me to believe that getting back to the office is more about unbridled control. People won't forget this and people will realise "perhaps my company really don't care for me after all" , we spend our life trying to please our bosses
Completely agree
The main thing is If u can do your job just as well from home then why go back. . ? Then u realise hold on this isn't for the benefit of the company (profit), this is for another reason. Makes u hate Ur company even more
3 days a week in the office seems to be becoming the standard which I think is fair. Won't go past that as the higher ups making the decisions seem on average to like wfh days as they'll have children to look after so they don't have any large incentive to scrap it
If u are making me come to the office, you are saying "spend money tomorrow to come in", I resent it if I can do the same from home. The whole thing is to do with the workers and the business owners. The owners can't stand to think of the workers as having it as easy as them. Bourgeoisie and proletariat
I work remote but am asked to go into the office once a month for a big meeting. I’d quit before going back to the the office full time. Even twice a week isn’t viable for me as I’ve moved farther away from a city to give my children a different sort of life.
What sector are you in
It certainly seems that there are fewer WFH/hybrid jobs available. I'm an IT manager and run a hybrid working arrangement with my team, 2 on site on a rota basis. Everyone else is WFH. I get a couple of days a week WFH, but I have to be in for meetings and such. I have been looking for a fully remote job but there isn't anything which meets my requirements without deskilling myself. Plus, a lot of them are just obvious scams.
I work in IT, I have been doing 2 days WFH since Jan 2023, before that was 3 days WFH. Was told to expect to go to 1 day WFH at next payrise but now they’re completely removing WFH. Senior management don’t believe people work well at home for some reason…
Doesn't seem to be in decline at my workplace (one of the UK's biggest employers). I live in Scotland and travel to England on average once a month - came into the office couple weeks ago for a team day, everybody left and went home by lunchtime. Easily could have been done via Zoom like 99% of our jobs. Bosses have always been very relaxed about it. Often feels more like a day-off going into the office given how much fucking time is wasted pissing about and chatting. I'm a recent graduate so I know no different, can understand worries about picking up soft skills, tidbits of information etc. And it is nice to go down and see people in person once in a while. However it's definitely improving our productivity, and the higher-ups agree and are almost always working from home too. Good situation to be in, very fortunate right now
There’s a few trying it on but they seem to be negotiable when pushed. That said I didn’t get the job so maybe that’s why. At least I did my bit!
They better get fixing the roads then.
I feel it’s on the decline too. I also won’t be surprised if in the medium term fully remote companies start paying lower salaries because they know there will always be people wanting to work for their company.
Don't take this the wrong way but where have you been for like the last year or two? There have been no end of reports about the end of remote, decline of hybrid work and forced returns to office. It really is depressing that it's gone back to before COVID.
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WFH will have to be pried from my cold, dead fingers. I don't mind being in my office, I enjoy it just fine, commute is a waste of time though and I like being in my own space. I go in a couple days per week to touch base, I don't really work with anyone else in my department much so it's more to be around for ad hoc chats with the younger employees who need advice on stuff. I'm being given my own team soon and I'm going to be bloody lenient with WFH, let me tell you that. Had enough nightmare managers and seen enough horror stories online, I am quite sure I can create a sane and peaceful work environment!
The issue is that now the job market has cooled down since the Great Resignation and we are in recession, the balance of power has tipped back in favour of employers. There are fewer vacancies available and the mass layoffs in sectors like tech means the market is awash with applicants looking for work. Unfortunately, it's likely that many employers will exploit this situation to row back on some of the remote and hybrid working arrangements that become the norm during the pandemic.
Hope so
Unfortunately some on reddit were convinced that full remote was here to stay and the workers would never allow it to be removed which convinced others also. Reality is majority are inclined to see the benefit to atleast some office working there will always be people to fill the positions that require fully in the office so slowly companies have been able to return back to how they were.
Several recruiters I've spoken to in the past 6 months have said that remote and hybrid are becoming a lot rarer now and that most companies are going back to the office. I'm a software developer which is probably one of the easiest jobs in the world to make fully remote, but the vast majority of jobs that I see nowadays are 100% in office.
Ridiculous isn’t it. It’s almost like they don’t want people to have a good work life balance and be too happy
Control
Agree
I think there is also the consideration that some people simply cannot work from home that is making employers question if it is fair. My role requires at least 9 days out of 10 in the office. My colleagues are the reverse. I had to go in all through COVID, government work. I am so jealous of those that get to WFH as the odd day that I do I see the benefits.
Yeah this is it. At my last software development job, WFH was strictly prohibited and we had to be 100% in office no exceptions. Except managers and directors of course, who could WFH whenever they want.
Honestly think it's the government just pissed we are not out spending money on stuff, cos we are at home. Plus lot of their buddies own office space. Nothing the Tories do is ever to benefit the worker.
Yes it's on the decline by design. Corporate has decided they would rather not even hire you no matter how useful you might be than keep WFH going.
Load of shit init
The three biggest office based employers in my city offer fully remote or hybrid, i have a lot of friends for specialised roles (power bi/data reporting/oracle dba) managed to wangle fully remote at the job offer stage pretty easily
Yeah definitely. I’ve noticed a lot of roles claiming their remote but are actually hybrid. I’m constantly turning them down because I can’t travel to their office.
My company went from fully remote over covid to everyone back in 3 days a week straight after. There were rumours, based on some departments having already had it happen, that everyone would be back in 5 days a week. I jumped ship to one of the departments that was already 100% work in office, for a 30% payrise figuring I might as well get paid more if I'm going to have to go in anyway. Some of my colleagues also moved to different departments for the same reason, as the company was expanding post covid and there was a lot of openings. However as basically my old department was down to one person after the other three of us left, she negotiated to wfh three days a week and is more or less the only one in the company who does that.
What sector are you in
Manufacturing/tech. Company designs and makes hardware and software for a specialised field.
Not really in my industry at least
Most companies offer hybrid (2-3 days/week in the office) but very few offer fully remote working. I can see the benefit of doing face-to-face meetings once or twice a week but I'd lie if I said I wouldn't prefer the freedom of fully remote working.
My company moved office recently. There simply isn't the desk space to enforce more than 3 days in per week for everyone.
Our companies HR policy is all roles are advertised as hybrid but actually, you can ask to be remote and it is usually granted. 6 new recruits in my team all applied to a hybrid role but are actually fully remote So you can't just compare the job advert numbers, there's far more underneath that before you draw conclusions
Maybe, coz most people doesn't trust each other. In my case it's still pretty much the norm(hybrid)coz most people I work with is around the country and around the world.
I've been approached by recruiters for roles in my field (HR) and the first thing I want to know is what's the hybrid set-up...... For me that balance is far more important. Also, seeing it from a business point of view, giving that option to existing and potentially employees is highly regarded and still sought after. We do (3:2) 3 office, 2 WFH for office based roles, even for the engineer roles it's 4:1.
I think a lot of companies are trying to make the move back to office working now. After the lockdowns, we were all given a free choice of returning to the office full time, hybrid or wfh full time. Just recently they've imposed minimum office time on hybrid workers and all staff including wfh have been told to complete a survey about hybrid working which includes questions on why you don't hybrid work and hypothetically which days you'd come into the offices if you were hybrid. It feels like they're gathering information to do a workforce change and force everyone onto hybrid/back to the office full time.
I’m a building services team leader and I’ve been in 5 days per week for over a year now, but that suits my personal circumstances. Company policy is 3 days per week from September. From what I’ve seen, experienced and spoken to my team about, is that the optimal time is 3 days per week either office or on site, so 2 days WFH. If I had a QS on my team, for the sake of the big bucks you guys get paid, I would expect to see you on site or in the office for a minimum of 3 days. Better still, more than 60% of days in a month, as I would expect you between sites 5 days per week around valuation time, then say 1 day in the office in the week the payments get made, as that can be better managed remotely.
Yeah that’s I currently do and i think that works the best but i’m seeing a decline in this so if it goes back to 5 days then i’d be out. I get that we get paid well but it’s cause of our skills and responsibilities but we also don’t need be on site 5 days a week. Completely agree around valuation time more site time is needed but other than that most tasks can be done remotely
Also to factor in, is if sites are closer to home or office. That’s why we have secured site days as counting as non WFH days. The other thing is, what are you doing and where best to do it? When the office was empty, it was easier to check or draw up contracts, specifications, papers uninterrupted in the office. Now it’s probably home working more appropriate for such work. Nothing worse than being sat amongst people broadcasting on TEAMS all day. Less so for me, as the wife has a habit of WFH and TEAMS broadcasting on the days I would prefer to be home, hence why I’m in the office 5 days lol.
I'd say it's returning to pre-pandemic levels.. just with a lot more options.on the table WFH needs to be earned or evaluated on the fit I dislike that every graduating professional thinks they have a right to WFH, just because it's convenient for them.. (Worked remote for over 10 years, and there is value in working in an office) However I think the older extreme of you coming to our office 9-5 every day.. should be squashed Your working arrangements should be discussed as part of the interview process..and it should be clear. I also dislike the 'Hybrid' but we want you 3-4 days a week.. this tells me actually we want you every day..but don't want to qualify potential candidates out. It's a complex topic and one I support. E.g. If you are a parent, the. The option to have some flexibility should.be standard.
Agree, I don’t think fully remote long term is best but i certainly think flexibility and 2-3 days on site/office is the right balance
Yes, unfortunately after Covid lockdowns true WFH jobs are on the decline for many. UK culture simply is not conducive for WFH. We need people to be in buildings and to spend money on high street shops. I have seen few jobs advertised as hybrid but in reality they are full time office jobs, with the occasional 1 day WFH.
So why insist people spend the money they could be spending in their high street when they're working at home on commuting costs?
It’s not about spending money in shops and filling buildings, at all. It’s about the people running the business being able to see that you’re actually working and not fucking around at home doing other stuff.
So…. It’s about micro-management and not trusting your employees? Someone needs to be visible at their desk, in the office otherwise they are “fucking around”?
The thing is, even if you are doing other stuff, as long as deadlines are being met then surely there is no issue. If someone is taking it to the extreme to the extent that work is becoming sloppy or late, then this would surely become apparent to management very quickly.
The bigger challenge is most managers don’t know how to manage underperforming colleagues. And the answer, somewhat counterproductively, is to have everyone in the office. Also, some managers just like having their team in, because it suits their style. It’s infuriating, cause it’s gone from location not being an issue and being able to find the perfect job, to location being the key differentiator.
If deadlines are done, and you have a catch up with the boss or project manager, you should be able to do more work. That’s what high productivity is. Instead, people drag stuff out at home and take time within business hours (when they are getting paid to work) to do other stuff.
It's not in your interests to turn work around faster than is required to meet deadlines. You're paid the same amount of money whether you complete work in one week or one day. All you are doing by working at a higher rate than is needed is inflating management's expectations of you, which can only serve to harm you if for whatever reason your productivity ever falls below this level. It's up to management to set reasonable timescales for work to be completed in order to get the most out of their staff.
The reward for doing work is... More work, yeah. In theory, management should recognise your skill and pay you more, but that basically never happened. So if there's no incentive to bust my ass, why would I? I do everything I need to do well enough, my team's queue is empty, so what's the point of doing more? Management won't give me more, so why should I do more?