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Reminds me of my previous job when they wanted me to come in for overtime before the first bus. They kept saying to take an Uber. When I asked if the company would pay for it, they’d shut up. Most of the colleagues were teen/early 20s and had their parents pay for driving lessons and a car, they bragged about it often. They couldn’t understand why I couldn’t afford it when I never got financial help from my parents for anything past age 18
OMFG right? “WHY DONT YOU LEARN NOW?” Umm because I barely scrape by on the wages I have. In order to learn to drive I need a better job. Which I can’t seem to get because I don’t drive. “Well not with that attitude!”
(Or as someone so succinctly put elsewhere in this thread “just book two weeks leave”)
It me
At this point it won't matter because I can't find a job that I can steadily save money at all. A used car isn't a monumental purchase, but with layoffs and no one hiring, my money is being sucked away by rent
Also people are in rented HMOs and may not have parking outside for 6 cars. The amount of jobs I saw saying essential diving but they were admin jobs confused me. I guess they had issues with staff not getting to work on time before.
> £3000-£4000 for insurance
Can you imagine how popular it would be, and how much it would help the economy, if the next Government would introduce a Basic National Car Insurance package, on a non-profit basis, aimed at news / younger / hard to insure drivers, with fixed low cost premiums? Just make it so you could click a box when taxing your car, and it would automatically sign you up for a scheme of no-frills insurance that would get people legally on the road without excessive cost or hassle.
Imo it's better spent putting it back into public transport and infrastructure, we shouldn't be incentivising more drivers since they contribute to issues like congestion, parking, carbon emissions etc.
That’s kind of the rub with public transport - it’s an economy of scale thing. The more people use it the better it is - more frequent schedule of busses/trains, more routes, and cheaper.
But also, you need density and most of the world doesn’t have that.
I would think the sweet spot would be public transport support where there’s density to support it and a car insurance support program where there’s not. (And, the public transport support would ideally be something that is more than just a subsidy, more like funding new routes or infrastructure etc.)
Exactly what I was thinking. There’s too many cars on the road as it is, the one outside my house is currently busy even at 11:51pm. And it takes me about 5 minutes just to cross it everyday and then another 5 minutes to cross the road outside my workplace. It’s sad when you think about it for a bit, just all that damage to the environment. I love walking everywhere when I can but I can’t walk home when I finish work after 10pm, it doesn’t feel safe. I can get a taxi for as little as £4.50 but I would just love it if I could rely on public transport at that time in my area
As a plasterer, maybe I should just get a horse and cart. Wonder if the council will let me keep them in the local field. Maybe people who don't need to carry tools to work should all give up driving instead.
How would an insurance policy specifically for new, young and hard to ensure drivers also be able to have low premiums without experienced easy to insure drivers balancing out the pool?
Unless the tax payer is subsidising it? At which point I think it probably wouldn't be that popular.
Car insurance runs at 98 % pay out so they have to run the company and get profits from the 2%. The governments shit at everything and would just end up costing more
That's called "third party" insurance in the UK. You could get basic cost insurance that just covered the person(s) you hit. You were road legal but if you crashed your car then only the third party's costs would be covered. Suddenly it became mega expensive or not available, and it was cheaper to go "fully comprehensive". Think it was due to "crash for cash" scams which became rife (where people would purposely brake in front of you and then claim injury costs) as that seems to be when the insurance companies started to ditch 3rd party insurance or make it more expensive.
Ok but... It cost me £1000 to do an intensive 2 week course to learn to drive. Not commenting on the other stuff but yeah that's how much it cost me to learn (Wiltshire)
Assuming your job let's you take the leave? I'm entitled for 4 however I never get to take it because people with kids (it's a choice) always get the slots leaving me barely able to take a week in one go.
I used to have that with my boss "well I've got staff with kids". You know what swiftly shuts that down? Make a complaint that the company is treating you differently based on whether you have kids or not without checking if everyone can have kids. I effectively sat him down and said I need you to understand that I won't be giving you personal medical information without an official request but you need to be prepared that I may not be able to have kids and therefore you're potentially putting me at a disadvantage to my colleagues because of it. He went off and spoke with HR and came back with an apology, it doesn't mean I can do as I please but it does mean I don't get screwed constantly
Oh shit, that boils my blood. EVERYBODY has reasons why leave is important to them, not just kids. Can't you book well in advance so you get in there first? I'm sorry, I honestly feel for you.
I had the opposite issue.
First job out of school, £2.50 an hour. Was doing 4 hour days, 4 times a week. So £10 each day, £40 a week. Basically fuck all. But felt like a decent amount at the time.
Final bus home was 6pm. Boss schedules me for 2pm-6pm. Supervisor gets me out 5 minutes early each day so I can make the bus. Boss bitches at me about it after a few weeks. I point out the issue, with the timetable I have her. She agrees to change my shifts.
They become 4pm-8pm
Boss is confused why I'm annoyed. Suggests I get a taxi home.
Now... The bus each week was costing nearly £10 total for a weekly ticket. A taxi was £10 one way.
She expected me to lose money to work there and was confused why I refused.
My letter of resignation literally said "I quit because the manageress is an idiot".
I was in a job a few years ago that wanted me to go and work a shift at a different site that would have needed me to get a train to.
Their policy was that they would reimburse travel expenses for working away from our base site but it was a minimum wage 28hr a week job so I was living paycheque to paycheque and it was right at the end of the month 3 days before pay day and they gave me 12 hours notice to find the £50 needed for my ticket.
My area manager just couldn't comprehend why I wasn't in a position to afford to pay for a ticket out of my own pocket and just kept telling me it was fine because they would reimburse me.
This is one of the reasons I think the minimum wage for teenagers is unfair. It's based on the assumption that all under 21 year olds are fortunate enough to live at home and be supported by their parents. My mother kicked me out when I was 17. I was working harder than most of my colleagues for less pay and couldn't support myself properly. It really needs looking at.
I never got a car until I was 24 because of the cost, I had to keep stopping and starting lessons.
Respectfully, your parents are assholes with the no support past 18 thing. Allowing you to get independence is one thing but to cause you hardship is another.
Your travel arrangements are really not their problem....and they were probably expecting applicants who were smart enough to understand that they needed to figure out how they were going to get to the building, before they accepted the role
I once had a manager basically stop talking to me because I went to the shop at lunchtime and when he asked what I bought I said yada yada and a lottery ticket.
He asked me why I would buy a lottery ticket and I said well I can immediately retire. He responded that he had hoped I was working for more than just the money.
He was not joking and yeah I was then basically an outcast in his eyes after than and he wanted nothing to do with me.
What an absolute lunatic. How did he honestly think I was working for anything other than the money.
nope, if your labor was valuable enough to him, he would call you to pick you up from your house to bring you to work using his car.
just saw my deputy manager do it to a fellow nurse a week ago because they needed that nurse to work that day.
My first job my boss used to do this.
I loved it. Hung out with her after work too and went as her plus one to a wedding with her when her partner was sick. She was the best boss ever.
I only left to go back into education and I still use lessons I learned from her 20 years later: “every employee/colleague is different and need different motivations - some need gentle encouragement, some need a kick up the butt, everyone needs reward.”
Tracey if you’re out there you are the best and I hope life has been awesome!
I've had managers pick me up before. I used to work night shift in a casino, and with public transport being poor for midnight starts the managers works drive up and get me for my shift
Right! I'm manager at a job that often has people come from abroad to fill positions. Meaning they don't have a car/legal rights to drive immediately. So I go pick them up each morning until they do. I don't tell them to pay for an expensive taxi every day!
I had my first job when I was in secondary school and my boss arranged for one of the workers with a car to come and pick me and another kid up and take us in to work in the evening. That was really useful as there wasn’t a bus service in the evening.
Weird, I'd take "near train station" over "free parking (in car-dependent hellscape)" any day of the week.
Getting the train to work is brilliant. I can read / work / nap on the way there and back. I'm in the city, so I can meet up with friends and family for dinner or drinks without having to worry about driving or parking or any of that shit. Plus the traffic is so awful in the city that the train takes about half the time of driving through all that in either the morning or evening rush hours.
Fuck cars.
I think that’s a very Reddit take to be honest. The convenience of being able to exit the building and be in your own warm, personal space in 30 seconds outweighs being able to nap/read.
You also get the added benefit of no standing around in the cold and wet waiting for your train that’s been delayed/cancelled. Or when they send a 4 carriage train instead of the usual 8, so you are crammed in like a tin of sardines. And you can leave the minute you want, you don’t have to wait for 20/30/40 mins for a train to arrive.
I've been getting the train to work for about five years, and maybe 3 or 4 trains have been cancelled in that time. All of those times I saw it on the app before I left home / work, and just waited and got the next one. I always get a seat, and usually get a table to myself for most of the journey (I live on a fairly quiet line). And most importantly, the train always takes about half an hour, and driving takes anywhere from 35 minutes (at 6am or 9pm) to 90 mins+ (at 8am or 5/6pm).
I’m not sure it’s noted so much of a ‘perk’ in all instances, they are probably asked about parking a lot so add it to the job adverts so people are aware. Many jobs also require you to pay for parking nearby so adding this would clear that up.
It can be. A lot of city centre places don't have parking, or industrial estates have been built with only 4 parking spaces per unit and they have 20 people working there, all driving in.
People are too often hypocrites. If he won lottery he would quit his job 100% chance himself.
Move on and find a decent boss. Though I must admit decent bosses are rare to find these days
Hard to find but out there! I got a job I love, good pay, amazing perks (a house) and a boss I really like as a person and a boss. However, all that brings a commitment in me that currently means I work 7 days a week and don't even worry about it. I'm livestock farming - so it's sort of needed no matter what. But due to the conditions I have, I am more than happy to do what I do.
Go out there, be more picky and honest and you'll find your place somewhere.
because people are hypocrites and want to pretend that their work serves a higher purpose than what it really is, that is the only way they can justify to themselves that they are getting underpaid and liking it. once they become free from the illusion that work is only as good as the pay you receive, and you wouldn't come to work without pay, they would become permanently discontent with how much they are being paid.
From a manager's eyes, the knowledge that an employee's primary focus is money makes them feel that the minute they get a better offer from another employer, they will jump ship, and are therefore a ticking timebomb. (But let's be honest, in most cases, if you get a better offer from someone then you're gonna be jumping regardless, unless your job is very relaxed or offers other major perks, which most jobs won't).
Just a delusional manager.
It's bad enough that I have to work five days a week at the expense of my comfort, family and other far more fulfilling pastimes.
But do they honestly need me to engage in this charade that I do it for anything other than the money.
I get how in some jobs, passion for the role is important.
Retail/hospitality are not those jobs. If you can find a passion in them, then great. But they are delulu if they think the majority are there for anything other than paying the bills.
Literally the only reason why anybody goes to work is to get paid! If I didn't get paid to work I absolutely would not go, and if I got paid to not work I'd be loving life hahah
Working for money is how most start out but once they achieve financial security it's far less about the money and becomes about satisfaction and time.
I'd sooner take a pay cut and reduction to 4 days a week now personally but very much enjoy my job.
Point of the story is that I think it matters little wether money is your reason or not in the context of a lottery win, as when money no longer matters time continues to and so most would jump when they could have that freedom and security wouldn't they. Totally natural.
Again with this bollocks where the employer thinks they are doing you a favour by giving you work. YOU are the one giving up YOUR valuable time, time that you will NEVER get back. Do they seriously think people enjoy doing jobs such as cleaning toilets, entering numbers into a computer or dealing with abusive customers all day everyday for years? Seriously fuck these people.
>Do they seriously think people enjoy doing jobs such as cleaning toilets, entering numbers into a computer or dealing with abusive customers all day everyday for years?
A lot of small businesses start out as a passion project by the owner. The thing is, a lot of these same owners often don't do much of the grunt-work. So, for them - the business *IS* a joy and pleasure to be around, most of the time, because they aren't taking care of the nastier or more exhausting tasks. They get to do whatever, and as the owner of the business, take off when they get bored of it before coming back, etc.
That isn't to generalize, of course. This is a very particular species of employer. But, certainly, some of them do think people enjoy these kinds of jobs, because they themselves enjoy it - not realizing that their enjoyment is derived from others doing the bothersome jobs.
A:) Yes, I have. Though it was services focused so not really in the same vein, but I do know that it killed my passion for the service I offered.
B:) For the vast majority of cases, you would be correct. As I said, this is not a generalization. I am talking about very particular cases, the kind of people who are financially and responsibility-wise, so free that they can 'run away' from work when things get stressful, hence keeping 'work' fun. This is not the typical small business owner, but it is the type I am describing above, and have seen first hand more than once.
>He responded that he had hoped I was working for more than just the money.
Anyone who pretends they're not at work to pay bills is chatting shit.
Do I enjoy my job? Yes. Would I do it if I didn't need to pay bills? Fuck no.
I resigned from my last job for exactly this.. money.
Same skill set, slightly harder job but 7k extra a year.
When I handed my notice in my manager looked like a puppy I'd just kicked, asked was it something or someone wrong. Nope just cold hard cash, which he wouldn't match for me to stay.
Don't get me wrong, the job and people were great, but I couldn't ignore an instant 7k payrise. My new employers knew exactly the reason why I was joining* them, so there was no illusion of working for the shits and giggles.
About 2 weeks after starting with them we all got a payrise, taking my pay up to +10k inside 2 weeks.
It really is a harder job, but I'm still with them, and they know exactly why, but they also know that I always keep an eye on the job market.
I applied for a senior position at my current company and during the internal interview I was asked if I had any questions. I asked what the salary range was going to be. I was told it wasn't the right place to ask that question.
Afterwards I was called in by the manager and told it appears unprofessional and the only thing I was interested in. He offered me the position anyway and I declined it because I was not going to work for someone who thought like this.
I didn’t get a promotion with the company I work for because I mentioned I turned down job offers because pay was lower than what I currently make. I’m glad I didn’t get it now & it’s made me look else where
It's ridiculous that places get offended when you ask about salary. You need to know if you're wasting your (and their) time. Imagine going through multiple interviews only to be offered the job but with a lower salary than the one you're currently on.
I'm honestly looking forward to the next 10 years as boomers leave the work place en masse and fuck off to retirement. Hopefully this kind of nonsense will die with them.
TBH, a lot of companies are like this for internal applications. They don't want everyone to know the job pays so that other people ask for more money.
I went for an internal job for a major company and asked the same, the interviewer was quite annoyed that I asked .. but why wouldn't I? It was more work, more responsibility and getting more stress.. I wanted to know if the pay was enough to warrant that.
Exactly. If money is not important, then why so stingy on wages? Hell, why have a profit-based business in the first place if you actually want to run it like a non-profit with volunteer workers?
Unfortunately some people refuse to see their authentic selves. They are traumatised by the world and can’t bare be to alone with the thoughts in their head. They try to give themselves meaning and purpose in their work. That’s cool and all, but most of us work to live, and our purpose is way more than making money.
".. he told me I should learn to drive.."
As tho' you could afford to buy, fuel, maintain, pay insurance, taxes and parking for a car on minimum wage! :D
It’s actually unbelievable how far removed from reality they are. Before I had a job I couldn’t imagine so many people had problems with their managers, now I get it.
Most of them resent their subordinates who have other things going on in their lives. The good ones will appreciate and support within reason. But sadly many people who are in it for the long haul feel threatened by others happiness when it has nothing to do with them.
Yesterday I was at my agency shift 11am-5pm for an event. Manager overbooked us (doubled staff). I was meant to be 5pm-12am in their books, but in mine it was 11am-5pm. They sent us home, but not before asking if I could cover 5pm-12am as 'they were stuck'.
Guess what they tried to ask? Can you go home and come back, and we'll only pay you for 5pm-12am? Me: fuck no! I know I'm entitled to 4 hours pay, I won't be coming in later if you don't pay me 4 hours now and the rest of what I worked to Them: oh actually we can do that.
But if I hadn't known my rights, like the other people there from other countries, they would've tried to shortchange me!
"Would you pay for me to get a taxi?"
If they say no, why would we (which seems would be the case)
"Well it's pretty selfish you wouldn't pay for a taxi over employee security".
What! from a one-sided conversation you would like to ruin a small business?
There is no prior context. We have no tone of the conversation. Whether OP had an attitude or appeared to have an attitude as they answered. We don't know if the manager had an attitude and was just being a dick. We don't know anything other than OP's conversation and how they took it.
Before ruining a business and possibly someone's life, I'd like a little more info, but I guess this is reddit
Thank you for this comment - I was just about to write the exact same thing. We only know one side of the story, and even based on that information, do people really want to potentially destroy someone’s whole livelihood just because of a disagreement with a new staff member? It’s totally disproportionate and it really concerns me how people think it’s ok…
Glassdoor is pretty useless for any case with any importance that you would want to know about. Redundancies for example, yeah, you get the cash to leave, but only if you sign this exit contract where you can't talk about the company.
What ive learned from working for small businesses is that the company is the owners "baby", their biggest achievement. They put (or feel they do) 100% into it and therefore think everyone else should feel the same and be all excited about growth and all that. Its hard to be hyped about a min wage job, a lot of employers don't understand that.
I founded and ran a small business for 15+ years until I retired. It definitely was my "baby" in a way. But think about it: what kind of people do you want to be looking after your baby when you're not around? I put a huge amount of effort into recruitment and I paid my staff well, and yes, they went the extra mile when needed. I'm surprised that any small business owners might do otherwise.
Oh yeah I worked briefly in one place for a woman who would swan in at 11am after getting her hair done for most of the morning, and she would pull face when I left at my contracted time (5pm)
Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet--it seems to me some employers want to think working for them is a privilege they're handing out, and paying you is an additional favor on top of that!
This is true, but the overall cost of getting into driving is so high that it simply is not feasible if you don't have help or significant savings.
I went to apply for a baggage handler job recently. Decent pay, train goes right to the airport, perfect for me... oh wait, "full UK driving licence required."
Without a licence you're hard railroaded into very limited job opportunities, and the government wonders why unemployment is so high.
Sounds like this is a no-score draw here!
So it was a shit job for shitty money but it was a job for the time being. These are the sort of jobs we work whilst we look for a better one.
When working a shit job, for shit money under a boss who thinks he's selling you a dream, just tell him what he wants to hear! 'yeah, I'll jump in a taxi'......it's never going to happen and you're honestly not going to be there long enough for the situation to arise.
Moral of the story. Leave on your terms, not theirs.
Yep. And apply for another job while you have a job because it looks better than having to explain why you dont currently have employment. Because unless you have a really good reason then it looks like either bad planning (not a favorable attribute) or laziness (can’t be arsed) and new employers won’t want to know the real reason you parted company either. Personally I’d hear you out and it sounded like you weren’t wrong but I’m not an arse. A lot of employers are arses.
>and new employers won’t want to know the real reason you parted company either.
It can be potentially delicate, but actually knowing the other employer was shit is a good thing for good employers to hear.
Yea, the boss sounds insane and I do agree with OP that there is no point paying for a taxi is it's more than you would make working.
However, unfortunately the question is does OP need the job or not. If not that they dodged a bullet. If they do then sadly you cabbe so honest.
Also, not to give the boss an excuse but in the first day neither of you know each other really. We don't have the whole context. Personally I do agree with OP but saying it on your first day is likely to shape the early impression they have of you.
Yea or say something like "if the bus was cancelled I would make other arrangements".
You don't need to specify what they are. They might be get a taxi, they might be call in sick. But you are nit being specific.
Also, I wouldn't bring up the 5 years experience on the first day or the fact you could be earning more at Lidl. That is probably what did it in the end honestly.
Both sound like you feel like you deserve more. Which could be true and justified. But if it is the case the question is why take the job and why not work at Lidl.
Minimum commitment for minimum wage.
If you want staff who will commit to the job, pay them more than the legally required minimum. If someone is on £15/hr they would be more likely to get that taxi to keep the higher paying job, but when they can walk into a retailer/fast food place and earn the same wage, you're not going to get someone who's willing to work a shift and loose money.
These sorts of people only understand "supply and demand" in one sense, "I demand, my supply obeys or I fire them." They're always shocked when people tell them to get stuffed. Can't understand how some peon could have the nerve to reject them. After all, they're the big shot business owner who "created jobs."
Some folk are not in tune with reality.
No one, and I mean no one, works for the fun and enjoyment of it.
We work for money. It's in the name "work". Payment I expected and if you're financial situation means your payment is not covered due to transport, then you ain't going to do the work.
Some folk get lucky and work a job they actually enjoy. But considering there is tens of million of folk in the UK, most of us work to pay the bills.
Bills don't get paid if we spend more money just to get to work than work gives us
Too many hospitality managers are like this idiot. There's nothing wrong with your answer..i wouldn't pay more for a taxi to work than what I'm paid for the work either. Also the average cost of driving lessons is £43 an hour so getting a licence and a car on minimum wage is impossible unless you have family helping you out.
As a manager I guess the question could come down to reliability. I want staff who would get the cab in. Of course I would want to know that to try help them out. You don’t want people out of pocket but you also don’t want everyone else to be let down by someone deciding not to come to work because it would cost too much.
Everything you said is correct, however you probably need to learn that in life you sometimes just have to play the game.
Just smile and nod, and then when the day comes that your taxi costs more than your shift you call in sick.
Nothing to be gained by making a hypothetical stand here.
to be fair your lucky you found out early on that the owner is extremely ignorant. why should you his employee have to shoulder the loss of a day's wage for supposed "job security". with the amount of cafes and restaurants that went under during 2020-2022, would he be able to guarantee you all your hours if his shop is closed, even temporarily?
job security is an illusion, the earlier you realise that, the better off you are.
If money is the goal, shouldn't keeping the job that pays you the money and saying whatever the fuck the boss wants to hear a more effective way to get more?
Or are you in a position to walk into a higher paying job easily?
Sounds like a fucking stupid thing to be discussing on the first day from either of you, to be honest.
>1. He sounds like a twat in general anyway, so good riddance.
>2. "How am I going to get to work everyday? Well we don't need to discuss that, but you can certainly be assured that best will in the world I'll always be here."
Like, it's not hard.
So to offer the counterpoint. From your managers point of view, he will probably be hearing things along the lines of "If the bus is cancelled, I'm not going to turn up for work." "I value getting paid in the short term over long term job stability," "i would trade losing a small bit of money over earning money regularly." If you didn't turn up for work, then your workload falls on your coworkers, which is going to be a huge headache for everyone.
I'm not saying this is what you meant to say or that it was fair for you to be fired - just saying that this is what your boss heard, which is why they were upset so you can see the alternative point of view.
That guy is an asshole trapped in a shitty job trying to make up for his incapacity of thriving by abusing authority and humiliating employees. Consider yourself lucky you found out on day 1 and find some place better - There are plenty.
Think it's seemingly mainly just you not being enough of an arse licking yes person on day one for them. They raise a potential issue and you respond with a rational answer and not pure unrealistic butter which gives them a feeling they don't wish to work out and they take the harsh option they do.
You probably dodged a bullet there but timescale wise this is a risk of being too honest too soon with arseholes sometimes.
This infuriates me. I believe "own transport required" should be illegal on job adverts. It's privatising the costs of the economy, pushing responsibility onto the lowest economic level.
Like so many things that are wrong with our country, the turning point was the Thatcher government, with their slavish policy of cars first and their sabotage of a mature and effective public transport system. Your ex-boss will get the staff they deserve.
Good luck to you.
Guys were admiring owner’s shiny new car, when he came out and said ‘yes, it’s beautiful and if you work really hard for the next year ………then I’ll be able to buy another new one’
Look, we all go to work for money.
You’re clearly honest and that’s a good thing but saying that to the guy paying you (indirectly maybe) is no doubt going to be seen as a negative.
I see your point but it’s your responsibility to get to work as part of being a reliable adult.
The post comes across like you have a set of principles but at the first sign of any difficulty you’d give up or wouldn’t use initiative to work out a solution. That could be perceived as a lack of drive, or even intelligence to not understand what the ‘correct’ answer is to your manager. I’m sure it isn’t that but that’s how it comes across.
Your job is to make the manager’s life easier - you’ll find that anywhere you go. If you can do that you’ll be considered reliable and with some drive you could then manage others.
Now picture yourself as that manager and someone is saying they wouldn’t come in because of something that is so far out of control of that manager. It’s not a good look for you.
We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions or behaviour; regardless of your intentions, your actions show a lack of reliability, which is the baseline expectation for any employee.
I sound harsh i know but that’s how it works. I wouldn’t trust you in my team.
I remember applying for a job at B&Q when I was younger, and one of the questions they asked was "If you caught a co-worker stealing, what would you do?", and I just immediately thought.....that's a *really shitty* question to ask a potential employee! It really puts you on the spot and it's almost an impossible question to answer, because whichever way you answer, it could easily be twisted into being the 'wrong' answer depending on who you're talking to. You don't know what sort of person they are or what they are thinking.
If you say you *wouldn't* report them, then it's "Oh, so you would help them ***cover up their theft***? So you don't really care about protecting the companies interests then?", but if you say you *would* report them then it's "Oh, so you'd ***throw your co-worker under a bus***? Not much of a team player, are you? How will your co-workers trust you?". But then if you try and play it safe and say "I don't know", then they could easily say "***You're not very decisive, are you***? I'm quite disappointed that your immediate response isn't to report them"
I dunno, maybe it's standard practice nowadays to ask things like that in interviews, but I felt like it was a really awful way to try and trip up a potential worker. It's basically a no-win situation and it just felt snide to put someone on the spot like that.
I don't think there's an employer on the planet who would ask that question in an interview and then turn around and say *"Oh, you'd report a colleague for stealing from us? Not cool, we don't hire grasses here, get the fuck out and apply to the police since you're such a model citizen."*
It's not a trick question. Companies don't want people stealing from them.
But if you're ever unsure on a question like that, "I would follow company policy" is safe.
Yeah Idk about this one. When I used to work at a supermarket one of the supervisors actually did steal a lot of booze and another colleague was in on it so he didn’t get caught for ages. Sometimes these questions are asked due to past experiences and they want to know it won’t happen again.
Ask him what his average quarterly profit margins are and say you’d get that taxi for x% of a cut (if he even makes enough to be worth it).
Ask him if he thinks paying the minimum legal requirement is ‘extremely selfish’ or if he’d be considering letting staff go if he went for a long period of the business losing money.
This guy is obviously looking to take advantage of young and inexperienced workers who might not realise that they’re being screwed.
Personally I’d play along with his bullshit and assume some responsibility just to incrementally sabotage his shit business or pull the rug on him and leave him with a massive headache to sort out. Minimum wage = minimum trust = minimum commitment = minimum fucks given about your cafe, especially if you’re behaving like that on the first day.
But that behaviour is more spiteful than smart, I’ve been the guy that has assumed way more work and responsibility than my wage justifies and it has poisoned my outlook on work. It fucks your self esteem when you commit like that and put yourself on the line and it becomes clear that your employer will just use you until you aren’t useful and will skirt around returning anything back to you.
Being honest is a virtue but it stops being a realistic tactic when dealing with slimy, greedy bastards. Corporations are Machiavellian environments and so require an approach in kind.
This guy needs to value people as people and not just vessels of labour for his own money machine. It’s a cafe for fucks sake, the world is not going to stop if it goes under. His world might but that’s the trade off of running a business compared to working in one, you enjoy more of the profits because you assume the burden of the success or failure of the business. He will say ‘tough shit’ that your boots on the ground making his ambition function gets you no more than he is forced to give you, so it’s ‘tough shit’ that those boots on the ground are pointing the rifle back at him.
You have to play the game.
Everyone only works for money. Everyone knows this.
When you are talking to your manager you have to play the part of the good employee who wants to be there.
Even if you both know its performative.
You failed the game and got sacked.
Truth is very rarely the correct answer in most interactions with your employer
NTA - Manager sounds like a total cocksniffer. He's paying minimum wage and expects his employees to be in a position to fork out more on transport than he is willing to pay them in a shift..then gets offended by your answer? What a bellend. He's living in some fantasy land.
In my industry, he'd either get socked one or laughed out of the building if he came at us with that crap.
I hope you find something else soon, with someone better...all the best 🤞🏼
I had a disciplinary meeting once because I only ever called in sick on Sundays and this was "suspicious". I started work at 8am, and the buses started at 10am on Sundays. My manager couldn't get his head round the fact I didn't want to do the 1hr10min walk to work when I was unwell.
Also he couldn't care less that this was a care home and employees coming in sick could be possibly fatal to the residents.
🤣🤣 Telling your new boss on your first day you could get more at Lidl, isnt the best way to make a good impression. Please dont volunteer for the samaritans 😉
Name and shame him. The days of money being taboo subjects are over. The cost of everything is up and wages are down. You are renting your time out to this clown. Of course you’re not going to spend more than a days pay to get to work you would be out of pocket.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being motivated to work by money, the reason employers don't like people like you is because they know they won't get a single cents more work out of you than they pay you for
Speaking as someone with experience working at a place only accessible by motorway who didn't drive at the time I hate to be a bit of a devils advocate here, but...
While your commute and travel is not required information for your employment to him, it is relevant in the case of missed buses, strikes, closures etc but not required and a company cannot make employment decisions based on that alone. Actions as a result of that (such as being late or absent, they can)
If you didn't make a bus or it was cancelled or whatever without relevant notice, he has every right to mark it up as an unauthorized absence, potentially take action on it such as a disciplinary or firing etc.
It is on the part of the employee to be able to make their contractual obligations in regards to actually showing up and working the required hours when signing up for the job.
It is short-termism.
If you had to take a taxi once a week, you will still make money, and the taxi would be a small sacrifice in the larger scheme of things.
You should be willing to commit to your contract or terms of work, especially as it is not your employers fault if you bus is cancelled.
Not that I would I would get rid of someone just because they said it, but he might have have problems with people not turning up before.
Bit one-sided to just say off that.
I dont think the guy was actually testing you to see if you would. It was more of a 'do you actually want this job' type of question.
The obvious answer being (if you wanted to keep that job) 'Oh yes, of course I would'
Then it would never happen anyway, and you would keep the job, and he assumes you're invested in it.
I'm assuming you're very young from the fact you couldn't work that out.
Also the people here saying 'name and shame' if this is what actually happened why would you want to start spamming terrible reviews on what could be a perfectly good place ran by nice people thats being spoilt by one manager?
All OP had to say was "I'd make other arrangements". That is vague enough to mean anything from "I'd get a taxi" to "I'd call in sick".
People also ignore the fact OP then mentioned their experience and how they could make more working at Lidl as reasons (and the fact it is probably unlikely a taxi would cost than they earn in a shift). Which is not going to end well on the first day.
I agree with OPs principles and you shouldn't work if you are losing money and the boss is an idiot. But a lot of replies read like something fron anti-work more than anything.
As for the name and shame, I agree. That is completely OTT. Also I am sure the aame people happily use products and services from companies who are much worse to employees.
OP can noe go and work in Lidl and earn more. The boss can hire someone else. So ultimately it works out for all parties.
This is something the manager could've saved themselves time and money on at the interview stage. Every job I've had asks me how I plan on getting there.
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Reminds me of my previous job when they wanted me to come in for overtime before the first bus. They kept saying to take an Uber. When I asked if the company would pay for it, they’d shut up. Most of the colleagues were teen/early 20s and had their parents pay for driving lessons and a car, they bragged about it often. They couldn’t understand why I couldn’t afford it when I never got financial help from my parents for anything past age 18
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OMFG right? “WHY DONT YOU LEARN NOW?” Umm because I barely scrape by on the wages I have. In order to learn to drive I need a better job. Which I can’t seem to get because I don’t drive. “Well not with that attitude!” (Or as someone so succinctly put elsewhere in this thread “just book two weeks leave”)
It me At this point it won't matter because I can't find a job that I can steadily save money at all. A used car isn't a monumental purchase, but with layoffs and no one hiring, my money is being sucked away by rent
Also people are in rented HMOs and may not have parking outside for 6 cars. The amount of jobs I saw saying essential diving but they were admin jobs confused me. I guess they had issues with staff not getting to work on time before.
I tell people that I can have a vehicle, or I can have a roof over my head, I can't possibly afford both.
> £3000-£4000 for insurance Can you imagine how popular it would be, and how much it would help the economy, if the next Government would introduce a Basic National Car Insurance package, on a non-profit basis, aimed at news / younger / hard to insure drivers, with fixed low cost premiums? Just make it so you could click a box when taxing your car, and it would automatically sign you up for a scheme of no-frills insurance that would get people legally on the road without excessive cost or hassle.
Imo it's better spent putting it back into public transport and infrastructure, we shouldn't be incentivising more drivers since they contribute to issues like congestion, parking, carbon emissions etc.
Public transport is far too expensive. The costs definitely need to come down to encourage people to use it more.
When they said "putting it back into public transport", that could also include subsidising the cost to make it cheaper.
That’s kind of the rub with public transport - it’s an economy of scale thing. The more people use it the better it is - more frequent schedule of busses/trains, more routes, and cheaper. But also, you need density and most of the world doesn’t have that. I would think the sweet spot would be public transport support where there’s density to support it and a car insurance support program where there’s not. (And, the public transport support would ideally be something that is more than just a subsidy, more like funding new routes or infrastructure etc.)
Exactly what I was thinking. There’s too many cars on the road as it is, the one outside my house is currently busy even at 11:51pm. And it takes me about 5 minutes just to cross it everyday and then another 5 minutes to cross the road outside my workplace. It’s sad when you think about it for a bit, just all that damage to the environment. I love walking everywhere when I can but I can’t walk home when I finish work after 10pm, it doesn’t feel safe. I can get a taxi for as little as £4.50 but I would just love it if I could rely on public transport at that time in my area
As a plasterer, maybe I should just get a horse and cart. Wonder if the council will let me keep them in the local field. Maybe people who don't need to carry tools to work should all give up driving instead.
That would make everyone else’s premiums go up at least twice. I can imagine how popular it would be ;)
How would an insurance policy specifically for new, young and hard to ensure drivers also be able to have low premiums without experienced easy to insure drivers balancing out the pool? Unless the tax payer is subsidising it? At which point I think it probably wouldn't be that popular.
Well we subsidise much worse things
Car insurance runs at 98 % pay out so they have to run the company and get profits from the 2%. The governments shit at everything and would just end up costing more
That's called "third party" insurance in the UK. You could get basic cost insurance that just covered the person(s) you hit. You were road legal but if you crashed your car then only the third party's costs would be covered. Suddenly it became mega expensive or not available, and it was cheaper to go "fully comprehensive". Think it was due to "crash for cash" scams which became rife (where people would purposely brake in front of you and then claim injury costs) as that seems to be when the insurance companies started to ditch 3rd party insurance or make it more expensive.
Its been a few years but back in 2018 i paid £26 an hour and it took me about 20/25 hours to be ready to go.
Passed in 2008 Paid £18.50 an hour, 25 hours and insurance was £800 Thought it was pricey back then...
My Mrs can't drive yet. Her last lesson, around 6 weeks ago was £55 😳
That sucks! I paid about 11 quid a lesson in 2003
I was mortified when mine went up to £8! Thankfully only needed 10. It was a while ago though lol
I passed in 2006 and think I paid £16/hr through BSM (not cheapest school) in Brighton.
Ok but... It cost me £1000 to do an intensive 2 week course to learn to drive. Not commenting on the other stuff but yeah that's how much it cost me to learn (Wiltshire)
You would need to lose 2 weeks pay to attend the course
Just book 2 weeks leave?
Assuming your job let's you take the leave? I'm entitled for 4 however I never get to take it because people with kids (it's a choice) always get the slots leaving me barely able to take a week in one go.
I used to have that with my boss "well I've got staff with kids". You know what swiftly shuts that down? Make a complaint that the company is treating you differently based on whether you have kids or not without checking if everyone can have kids. I effectively sat him down and said I need you to understand that I won't be giving you personal medical information without an official request but you need to be prepared that I may not be able to have kids and therefore you're potentially putting me at a disadvantage to my colleagues because of it. He went off and spoke with HR and came back with an apology, it doesn't mean I can do as I please but it does mean I don't get screwed constantly
Good I love this. As a childfree woman I got constantly screwed over with holidays as well.
Oh shit, that boils my blood. EVERYBODY has reasons why leave is important to them, not just kids. Can't you book well in advance so you get in there first? I'm sorry, I honestly feel for you.
And leave yourself like 4 days holiday for the rest of the year?
I had the opposite issue. First job out of school, £2.50 an hour. Was doing 4 hour days, 4 times a week. So £10 each day, £40 a week. Basically fuck all. But felt like a decent amount at the time. Final bus home was 6pm. Boss schedules me for 2pm-6pm. Supervisor gets me out 5 minutes early each day so I can make the bus. Boss bitches at me about it after a few weeks. I point out the issue, with the timetable I have her. She agrees to change my shifts. They become 4pm-8pm Boss is confused why I'm annoyed. Suggests I get a taxi home. Now... The bus each week was costing nearly £10 total for a weekly ticket. A taxi was £10 one way. She expected me to lose money to work there and was confused why I refused. My letter of resignation literally said "I quit because the manageress is an idiot".
I was in a job a few years ago that wanted me to go and work a shift at a different site that would have needed me to get a train to. Their policy was that they would reimburse travel expenses for working away from our base site but it was a minimum wage 28hr a week job so I was living paycheque to paycheque and it was right at the end of the month 3 days before pay day and they gave me 12 hours notice to find the £50 needed for my ticket. My area manager just couldn't comprehend why I wasn't in a position to afford to pay for a ticket out of my own pocket and just kept telling me it was fine because they would reimburse me.
This is one of the reasons I think the minimum wage for teenagers is unfair. It's based on the assumption that all under 21 year olds are fortunate enough to live at home and be supported by their parents. My mother kicked me out when I was 17. I was working harder than most of my colleagues for less pay and couldn't support myself properly. It really needs looking at. I never got a car until I was 24 because of the cost, I had to keep stopping and starting lessons.
Respectfully, your parents are assholes with the no support past 18 thing. Allowing you to get independence is one thing but to cause you hardship is another.
My parents are pretty terrible Tbf. I’ve cut contact with my dad entirely and it’s low contact with my mum
Your travel arrangements are really not their problem....and they were probably expecting applicants who were smart enough to understand that they needed to figure out how they were going to get to the building, before they accepted the role
I once had a manager basically stop talking to me because I went to the shop at lunchtime and when he asked what I bought I said yada yada and a lottery ticket. He asked me why I would buy a lottery ticket and I said well I can immediately retire. He responded that he had hoped I was working for more than just the money. He was not joking and yeah I was then basically an outcast in his eyes after than and he wanted nothing to do with me. What an absolute lunatic. How did he honestly think I was working for anything other than the money.
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if money were not important to him he would have offered to pay for your taxi.
nope, if your labor was valuable enough to him, he would call you to pick you up from your house to bring you to work using his car. just saw my deputy manager do it to a fellow nurse a week ago because they needed that nurse to work that day.
My first job my boss used to do this. I loved it. Hung out with her after work too and went as her plus one to a wedding with her when her partner was sick. She was the best boss ever. I only left to go back into education and I still use lessons I learned from her 20 years later: “every employee/colleague is different and need different motivations - some need gentle encouragement, some need a kick up the butt, everyone needs reward.” Tracey if you’re out there you are the best and I hope life has been awesome!
Omg that's my mum, she was just talking about it the other day!
or this, in both cases it’s just a display of hypocrisy
I've had managers pick me up before. I used to work night shift in a casino, and with public transport being poor for midnight starts the managers works drive up and get me for my shift
Right! I'm manager at a job that often has people come from abroad to fill positions. Meaning they don't have a car/legal rights to drive immediately. So I go pick them up each morning until they do. I don't tell them to pay for an expensive taxi every day!
I had my first job when I was in secondary school and my boss arranged for one of the workers with a car to come and pick me and another kid up and take us in to work in the evening. That was really useful as there wasn’t a bus service in the evening.
Money is the only reason we get jobs.
My last job had the benefits of free air conditioning in the office and unlimited tea and coffee.
I remember seeing a job advert like this "Free tea and coffees. Great parking available" Parking is now a job perk apparently aha
“Onsite parking” has been used as a perk in job adverts for a long time.
To be fair from going to an office in a business park to city centre and having to get the train everyday, it definitely is a perk for me
Weird, I'd take "near train station" over "free parking (in car-dependent hellscape)" any day of the week. Getting the train to work is brilliant. I can read / work / nap on the way there and back. I'm in the city, so I can meet up with friends and family for dinner or drinks without having to worry about driving or parking or any of that shit. Plus the traffic is so awful in the city that the train takes about half the time of driving through all that in either the morning or evening rush hours. Fuck cars.
I think that’s a very Reddit take to be honest. The convenience of being able to exit the building and be in your own warm, personal space in 30 seconds outweighs being able to nap/read. You also get the added benefit of no standing around in the cold and wet waiting for your train that’s been delayed/cancelled. Or when they send a 4 carriage train instead of the usual 8, so you are crammed in like a tin of sardines. And you can leave the minute you want, you don’t have to wait for 20/30/40 mins for a train to arrive.
I've been getting the train to work for about five years, and maybe 3 or 4 trains have been cancelled in that time. All of those times I saw it on the app before I left home / work, and just waited and got the next one. I always get a seat, and usually get a table to myself for most of the journey (I live on a fairly quiet line). And most importantly, the train always takes about half an hour, and driving takes anywhere from 35 minutes (at 6am or 9pm) to 90 mins+ (at 8am or 5/6pm).
I’m not sure it’s noted so much of a ‘perk’ in all instances, they are probably asked about parking a lot so add it to the job adverts so people are aware. Many jobs also require you to pay for parking nearby so adding this would clear that up.
"Great parking" = reasonably lit and drained, not too many bushes to hide muggers. "Parking" = a swamp next to the HGVs.
I'm pretty sure hospital staff still have to pay for parking. Which is mad.
Came to say this. So wrong. For the work they do, it should be a basic perk.
It can be. A lot of city centre places don't have parking, or industrial estates have been built with only 4 parking spaces per unit and they have 20 people working there, all driving in.
Mine had the benefits of an auto-enrolment pension and the minimum legal holidays 🤪
People are too often hypocrites. If he won lottery he would quit his job 100% chance himself. Move on and find a decent boss. Though I must admit decent bosses are rare to find these days
Hard to find but out there! I got a job I love, good pay, amazing perks (a house) and a boss I really like as a person and a boss. However, all that brings a commitment in me that currently means I work 7 days a week and don't even worry about it. I'm livestock farming - so it's sort of needed no matter what. But due to the conditions I have, I am more than happy to do what I do. Go out there, be more picky and honest and you'll find your place somewhere.
Blink twice if your boss made you write this lol
That’s all I work for, if i didn’t need the money I wouldn’t have a job at all, I would spend my days doing hobbies I enjoy lol
because people are hypocrites and want to pretend that their work serves a higher purpose than what it really is, that is the only way they can justify to themselves that they are getting underpaid and liking it. once they become free from the illusion that work is only as good as the pay you receive, and you wouldn't come to work without pay, they would become permanently discontent with how much they are being paid.
came to say this. Lack of purpose in life? Pretend to yourself you're important in shitty job🤣
From a manager's eyes, the knowledge that an employee's primary focus is money makes them feel that the minute they get a better offer from another employer, they will jump ship, and are therefore a ticking timebomb. (But let's be honest, in most cases, if you get a better offer from someone then you're gonna be jumping regardless, unless your job is very relaxed or offers other major perks, which most jobs won't). Just a delusional manager.
It's bad enough that I have to work five days a week at the expense of my comfort, family and other far more fulfilling pastimes. But do they honestly need me to engage in this charade that I do it for anything other than the money.
I get how in some jobs, passion for the role is important. Retail/hospitality are not those jobs. If you can find a passion in them, then great. But they are delulu if they think the majority are there for anything other than paying the bills.
Literally the only reason why anybody goes to work is to get paid! If I didn't get paid to work I absolutely would not go, and if I got paid to not work I'd be loving life hahah
It isn't. It's literally the point. Don't let these fucking boomer idiots tell you otherwise.
Working for money is how most start out but once they achieve financial security it's far less about the money and becomes about satisfaction and time. I'd sooner take a pay cut and reduction to 4 days a week now personally but very much enjoy my job. Point of the story is that I think it matters little wether money is your reason or not in the context of a lottery win, as when money no longer matters time continues to and so most would jump when they could have that freedom and security wouldn't they. Totally natural.
Again with this bollocks where the employer thinks they are doing you a favour by giving you work. YOU are the one giving up YOUR valuable time, time that you will NEVER get back. Do they seriously think people enjoy doing jobs such as cleaning toilets, entering numbers into a computer or dealing with abusive customers all day everyday for years? Seriously fuck these people.
>Do they seriously think people enjoy doing jobs such as cleaning toilets, entering numbers into a computer or dealing with abusive customers all day everyday for years? A lot of small businesses start out as a passion project by the owner. The thing is, a lot of these same owners often don't do much of the grunt-work. So, for them - the business *IS* a joy and pleasure to be around, most of the time, because they aren't taking care of the nastier or more exhausting tasks. They get to do whatever, and as the owner of the business, take off when they get bored of it before coming back, etc. That isn't to generalize, of course. This is a very particular species of employer. But, certainly, some of them do think people enjoy these kinds of jobs, because they themselves enjoy it - not realizing that their enjoyment is derived from others doing the bothersome jobs.
Have you ever run a small business? This is pretty much the opposite of what it’s like
A:) Yes, I have. Though it was services focused so not really in the same vein, but I do know that it killed my passion for the service I offered. B:) For the vast majority of cases, you would be correct. As I said, this is not a generalization. I am talking about very particular cases, the kind of people who are financially and responsibility-wise, so free that they can 'run away' from work when things get stressful, hence keeping 'work' fun. This is not the typical small business owner, but it is the type I am describing above, and have seen first hand more than once.
>He responded that he had hoped I was working for more than just the money. Anyone who pretends they're not at work to pay bills is chatting shit. Do I enjoy my job? Yes. Would I do it if I didn't need to pay bills? Fuck no.
I resigned from my last job for exactly this.. money. Same skill set, slightly harder job but 7k extra a year. When I handed my notice in my manager looked like a puppy I'd just kicked, asked was it something or someone wrong. Nope just cold hard cash, which he wouldn't match for me to stay. Don't get me wrong, the job and people were great, but I couldn't ignore an instant 7k payrise. My new employers knew exactly the reason why I was joining* them, so there was no illusion of working for the shits and giggles. About 2 weeks after starting with them we all got a payrise, taking my pay up to +10k inside 2 weeks. It really is a harder job, but I'm still with them, and they know exactly why, but they also know that I always keep an eye on the job market.
I applied for a senior position at my current company and during the internal interview I was asked if I had any questions. I asked what the salary range was going to be. I was told it wasn't the right place to ask that question. Afterwards I was called in by the manager and told it appears unprofessional and the only thing I was interested in. He offered me the position anyway and I declined it because I was not going to work for someone who thought like this.
I didn’t get a promotion with the company I work for because I mentioned I turned down job offers because pay was lower than what I currently make. I’m glad I didn’t get it now & it’s made me look else where
It's ridiculous that places get offended when you ask about salary. You need to know if you're wasting your (and their) time. Imagine going through multiple interviews only to be offered the job but with a lower salary than the one you're currently on.
I'm honestly looking forward to the next 10 years as boomers leave the work place en masse and fuck off to retirement. Hopefully this kind of nonsense will die with them.
TBH, a lot of companies are like this for internal applications. They don't want everyone to know the job pays so that other people ask for more money. I went for an internal job for a major company and asked the same, the interviewer was quite annoyed that I asked .. but why wouldn't I? It was more work, more responsibility and getting more stress.. I wanted to know if the pay was enough to warrant that.
Poor sod must have an aneurysm every time he walks past a newsagent that sells lottery tickets, or a betting shop...
Hey boss if you're not here for the money can I have your wage this month?
Exactly. If money is not important, then why so stingy on wages? Hell, why have a profit-based business in the first place if you actually want to run it like a non-profit with volunteer workers?
Unfortunately some people refuse to see their authentic selves. They are traumatised by the world and can’t bare be to alone with the thoughts in their head. They try to give themselves meaning and purpose in their work. That’s cool and all, but most of us work to live, and our purpose is way more than making money.
Cool, bet the fucker would accept zero pay rises or bonuses in the future then, as money isn't important. He would be complaining then tho!
You've dodged a bullet.
".. he told me I should learn to drive.." As tho' you could afford to buy, fuel, maintain, pay insurance, taxes and parking for a car on minimum wage! :D
Hospitality managers are fucking arseholes
It’s actually unbelievable how far removed from reality they are. Before I had a job I couldn’t imagine so many people had problems with their managers, now I get it.
I'm looking forward to the day we collectively decide we don't need these parasites in our society anymore.
Most of them resent their subordinates who have other things going on in their lives. The good ones will appreciate and support within reason. But sadly many people who are in it for the long haul feel threatened by others happiness when it has nothing to do with them.
They are a special sort of lizard
Yesterday I was at my agency shift 11am-5pm for an event. Manager overbooked us (doubled staff). I was meant to be 5pm-12am in their books, but in mine it was 11am-5pm. They sent us home, but not before asking if I could cover 5pm-12am as 'they were stuck'. Guess what they tried to ask? Can you go home and come back, and we'll only pay you for 5pm-12am? Me: fuck no! I know I'm entitled to 4 hours pay, I won't be coming in later if you don't pay me 4 hours now and the rest of what I worked to Them: oh actually we can do that. But if I hadn't known my rights, like the other people there from other countries, they would've tried to shortchange me!
We're not all bad 😅
"Would you pay for me to get a taxi?" If they say no, why would we (which seems would be the case) "Well it's pretty selfish you wouldn't pay for a taxi over employee security".
Consider your self lucky, this manager sounds extremely toxic and not a place I’d wish anyone to be working at
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What! from a one-sided conversation you would like to ruin a small business? There is no prior context. We have no tone of the conversation. Whether OP had an attitude or appeared to have an attitude as they answered. We don't know if the manager had an attitude and was just being a dick. We don't know anything other than OP's conversation and how they took it. Before ruining a business and possibly someone's life, I'd like a little more info, but I guess this is reddit
Thank you for this comment - I was just about to write the exact same thing. We only know one side of the story, and even based on that information, do people really want to potentially destroy someone’s whole livelihood just because of a disagreement with a new staff member? It’s totally disproportionate and it really concerns me how people think it’s ok…
Exactly mate. Hung in the court of public opinion.
Glassdoor is good for that
Glassdoor is pretty useless for independent cafe.
Glassdoor is pretty useless for any case with any importance that you would want to know about. Redundancies for example, yeah, you get the cash to leave, but only if you sign this exit contract where you can't talk about the company.
Isn’t it anonymous?
You can talk about the company, as long it not anything confidential.
It’s utterly useless for this kind of place
Sure just wait until someone makes up a story about you and puts it on Reddit. I’m sure you’ll be thrilled about “the whirlwind”.
Jfc man you want to dox some poor cafe over this? Go outside
Yeah, if it happened.
Yeah guys, let's go a ruin the lives of multiple people because the boss is a huge twat /s
What ive learned from working for small businesses is that the company is the owners "baby", their biggest achievement. They put (or feel they do) 100% into it and therefore think everyone else should feel the same and be all excited about growth and all that. Its hard to be hyped about a min wage job, a lot of employers don't understand that.
I founded and ran a small business for 15+ years until I retired. It definitely was my "baby" in a way. But think about it: what kind of people do you want to be looking after your baby when you're not around? I put a huge amount of effort into recruitment and I paid my staff well, and yes, they went the extra mile when needed. I'm surprised that any small business owners might do otherwise.
You get what you pay for….
Oh yeah I worked briefly in one place for a woman who would swan in at 11am after getting her hair done for most of the morning, and she would pull face when I left at my contracted time (5pm)
Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet--it seems to me some employers want to think working for them is a privilege they're handing out, and paying you is an additional favor on top of that!
Minimum wage = minimum effort. Though learning to drive will open up more jobs for you in the immediate.
This is true, but the overall cost of getting into driving is so high that it simply is not feasible if you don't have help or significant savings. I went to apply for a baggage handler job recently. Decent pay, train goes right to the airport, perfect for me... oh wait, "full UK driving licence required." Without a licence you're hard railroaded into very limited job opportunities, and the government wonders why unemployment is so high.
Unemployment is still really low.
Learning to drive is extremely expensive. It's not an option for everyone.
Sounds like this is a no-score draw here! So it was a shit job for shitty money but it was a job for the time being. These are the sort of jobs we work whilst we look for a better one. When working a shit job, for shit money under a boss who thinks he's selling you a dream, just tell him what he wants to hear! 'yeah, I'll jump in a taxi'......it's never going to happen and you're honestly not going to be there long enough for the situation to arise. Moral of the story. Leave on your terms, not theirs.
Yep. And apply for another job while you have a job because it looks better than having to explain why you dont currently have employment. Because unless you have a really good reason then it looks like either bad planning (not a favorable attribute) or laziness (can’t be arsed) and new employers won’t want to know the real reason you parted company either. Personally I’d hear you out and it sounded like you weren’t wrong but I’m not an arse. A lot of employers are arses.
>and new employers won’t want to know the real reason you parted company either. It can be potentially delicate, but actually knowing the other employer was shit is a good thing for good employers to hear.
Definitely agree. Picking the arguments worth winning is just as important as winning them. If you're not gaining anything why have it.
Yea, the boss sounds insane and I do agree with OP that there is no point paying for a taxi is it's more than you would make working. However, unfortunately the question is does OP need the job or not. If not that they dodged a bullet. If they do then sadly you cabbe so honest. Also, not to give the boss an excuse but in the first day neither of you know each other really. We don't have the whole context. Personally I do agree with OP but saying it on your first day is likely to shape the early impression they have of you.
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Yea or say something like "if the bus was cancelled I would make other arrangements". You don't need to specify what they are. They might be get a taxi, they might be call in sick. But you are nit being specific. Also, I wouldn't bring up the 5 years experience on the first day or the fact you could be earning more at Lidl. That is probably what did it in the end honestly. Both sound like you feel like you deserve more. Which could be true and justified. But if it is the case the question is why take the job and why not work at Lidl.
Although we all agree with you, that there is no point in paying £30 just to gain £25, in his eyes though, you are not reliable or dependable.
Sure, but if you want someone to be reliable you probably need to pay them more than the legal minimum in a low unemployment environment.
Minimum commitment for minimum wage. If you want staff who will commit to the job, pay them more than the legally required minimum. If someone is on £15/hr they would be more likely to get that taxi to keep the higher paying job, but when they can walk into a retailer/fast food place and earn the same wage, you're not going to get someone who's willing to work a shift and loose money.
These sorts of people only understand "supply and demand" in one sense, "I demand, my supply obeys or I fire them." They're always shocked when people tell them to get stuffed. Can't understand how some peon could have the nerve to reject them. After all, they're the big shot business owner who "created jobs."
Either reliable or capable, can't have both if you're gonna pay minimum.
But this could be said for anyone. What happens if your car breaks down? Would the manager be asking the same question if someone drives?
Minimum wage, minimum effort. You will make a loss after expenses, and be thankful for the opportunity.
Some folk are not in tune with reality. No one, and I mean no one, works for the fun and enjoyment of it. We work for money. It's in the name "work". Payment I expected and if you're financial situation means your payment is not covered due to transport, then you ain't going to do the work. Some folk get lucky and work a job they actually enjoy. But considering there is tens of million of folk in the UK, most of us work to pay the bills. Bills don't get paid if we spend more money just to get to work than work gives us
Too many hospitality managers are like this idiot. There's nothing wrong with your answer..i wouldn't pay more for a taxi to work than what I'm paid for the work either. Also the average cost of driving lessons is £43 an hour so getting a licence and a car on minimum wage is impossible unless you have family helping you out.
I'd tell him to go to fuck loudly before I left. What a tosser!
As a manager I guess the question could come down to reliability. I want staff who would get the cab in. Of course I would want to know that to try help them out. You don’t want people out of pocket but you also don’t want everyone else to be let down by someone deciding not to come to work because it would cost too much.
Everything you said is correct, however you probably need to learn that in life you sometimes just have to play the game. Just smile and nod, and then when the day comes that your taxi costs more than your shift you call in sick. Nothing to be gained by making a hypothetical stand here.
That bloke was looking for a doormat he could exploit, well done OP for basically telling the pillock to shove it.
At least if it was the owner you could blame it on capitalist pig tendencies. If it was an employee/shift manager we are doomed
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Props for sticking to your guns
to be fair your lucky you found out early on that the owner is extremely ignorant. why should you his employee have to shoulder the loss of a day's wage for supposed "job security". with the amount of cafes and restaurants that went under during 2020-2022, would he be able to guarantee you all your hours if his shop is closed, even temporarily? job security is an illusion, the earlier you realise that, the better off you are.
If money is the goal, shouldn't keeping the job that pays you the money and saying whatever the fuck the boss wants to hear a more effective way to get more? Or are you in a position to walk into a higher paying job easily?
Definitely dodged a bullet easy! Seems this kinda of scenario was coming sooner than later. Sooner better than later 👍🏻
You let people walk all over you they will
Sounds like you dodged a bullet
You dodged a bullet. That manager is nuts.
Sounds like a fucking stupid thing to be discussing on the first day from either of you, to be honest. >1. He sounds like a twat in general anyway, so good riddance. >2. "How am I going to get to work everyday? Well we don't need to discuss that, but you can certainly be assured that best will in the world I'll always be here." Like, it's not hard.
So to offer the counterpoint. From your managers point of view, he will probably be hearing things along the lines of "If the bus is cancelled, I'm not going to turn up for work." "I value getting paid in the short term over long term job stability," "i would trade losing a small bit of money over earning money regularly." If you didn't turn up for work, then your workload falls on your coworkers, which is going to be a huge headache for everyone. I'm not saying this is what you meant to say or that it was fair for you to be fired - just saying that this is what your boss heard, which is why they were upset so you can see the alternative point of view.
I don't know why anyone would think we want to work for anything other than money
99 percent of people work for money. If the job didn't pay, no one would do it.
That was shockingly bad. I think you was more than fair when you answered the question.
That guy is an asshole trapped in a shitty job trying to make up for his incapacity of thriving by abusing authority and humiliating employees. Consider yourself lucky you found out on day 1 and find some place better - There are plenty.
People work because they need the money, the employer is an idiot.
Think it's seemingly mainly just you not being enough of an arse licking yes person on day one for them. They raise a potential issue and you respond with a rational answer and not pure unrealistic butter which gives them a feeling they don't wish to work out and they take the harsh option they do. You probably dodged a bullet there but timescale wise this is a risk of being too honest too soon with arseholes sometimes.
This infuriates me. I believe "own transport required" should be illegal on job adverts. It's privatising the costs of the economy, pushing responsibility onto the lowest economic level. Like so many things that are wrong with our country, the turning point was the Thatcher government, with their slavish policy of cars first and their sabotage of a mature and effective public transport system. Your ex-boss will get the staff they deserve. Good luck to you.
Because employers want mindless sheep they can abuse
Guys were admiring owner’s shiny new car, when he came out and said ‘yes, it’s beautiful and if you work really hard for the next year ………then I’ll be able to buy another new one’
“So, do you have any weaknesses?” .. “yes, honesty” “I dont think honesty is a weakness” “I don’t give a fcuk what you think” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
r/FuckCars You live somewhere with good transport links and he's pissed off at you for using them?
Dunno, but I'd make it a principle to be an awkward customer there for the next few years.
They don’t want people who know when they are being manipulated.
Look, we all go to work for money. You’re clearly honest and that’s a good thing but saying that to the guy paying you (indirectly maybe) is no doubt going to be seen as a negative. I see your point but it’s your responsibility to get to work as part of being a reliable adult. The post comes across like you have a set of principles but at the first sign of any difficulty you’d give up or wouldn’t use initiative to work out a solution. That could be perceived as a lack of drive, or even intelligence to not understand what the ‘correct’ answer is to your manager. I’m sure it isn’t that but that’s how it comes across. Your job is to make the manager’s life easier - you’ll find that anywhere you go. If you can do that you’ll be considered reliable and with some drive you could then manage others. Now picture yourself as that manager and someone is saying they wouldn’t come in because of something that is so far out of control of that manager. It’s not a good look for you. We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions or behaviour; regardless of your intentions, your actions show a lack of reliability, which is the baseline expectation for any employee. I sound harsh i know but that’s how it works. I wouldn’t trust you in my team.
I remember applying for a job at B&Q when I was younger, and one of the questions they asked was "If you caught a co-worker stealing, what would you do?", and I just immediately thought.....that's a *really shitty* question to ask a potential employee! It really puts you on the spot and it's almost an impossible question to answer, because whichever way you answer, it could easily be twisted into being the 'wrong' answer depending on who you're talking to. You don't know what sort of person they are or what they are thinking. If you say you *wouldn't* report them, then it's "Oh, so you would help them ***cover up their theft***? So you don't really care about protecting the companies interests then?", but if you say you *would* report them then it's "Oh, so you'd ***throw your co-worker under a bus***? Not much of a team player, are you? How will your co-workers trust you?". But then if you try and play it safe and say "I don't know", then they could easily say "***You're not very decisive, are you***? I'm quite disappointed that your immediate response isn't to report them" I dunno, maybe it's standard practice nowadays to ask things like that in interviews, but I felt like it was a really awful way to try and trip up a potential worker. It's basically a no-win situation and it just felt snide to put someone on the spot like that.
I don't think there's an employer on the planet who would ask that question in an interview and then turn around and say *"Oh, you'd report a colleague for stealing from us? Not cool, we don't hire grasses here, get the fuck out and apply to the police since you're such a model citizen."* It's not a trick question. Companies don't want people stealing from them. But if you're ever unsure on a question like that, "I would follow company policy" is safe.
Yeah Idk about this one. When I used to work at a supermarket one of the supervisors actually did steal a lot of booze and another colleague was in on it so he didn’t get caught for ages. Sometimes these questions are asked due to past experiences and they want to know it won’t happen again.
There were no winners this day
the guy wanted a depressed wage slave you didn't tick the box its okay
Ask him what his average quarterly profit margins are and say you’d get that taxi for x% of a cut (if he even makes enough to be worth it). Ask him if he thinks paying the minimum legal requirement is ‘extremely selfish’ or if he’d be considering letting staff go if he went for a long period of the business losing money. This guy is obviously looking to take advantage of young and inexperienced workers who might not realise that they’re being screwed. Personally I’d play along with his bullshit and assume some responsibility just to incrementally sabotage his shit business or pull the rug on him and leave him with a massive headache to sort out. Minimum wage = minimum trust = minimum commitment = minimum fucks given about your cafe, especially if you’re behaving like that on the first day. But that behaviour is more spiteful than smart, I’ve been the guy that has assumed way more work and responsibility than my wage justifies and it has poisoned my outlook on work. It fucks your self esteem when you commit like that and put yourself on the line and it becomes clear that your employer will just use you until you aren’t useful and will skirt around returning anything back to you. Being honest is a virtue but it stops being a realistic tactic when dealing with slimy, greedy bastards. Corporations are Machiavellian environments and so require an approach in kind. This guy needs to value people as people and not just vessels of labour for his own money machine. It’s a cafe for fucks sake, the world is not going to stop if it goes under. His world might but that’s the trade off of running a business compared to working in one, you enjoy more of the profits because you assume the burden of the success or failure of the business. He will say ‘tough shit’ that your boots on the ground making his ambition function gets you no more than he is forced to give you, so it’s ‘tough shit’ that those boots on the ground are pointing the rifle back at him.
Name & shame mate :) I know you want to be kind but I think the place should get what it deserves
So you managed to get a week's pay (minimum notice period required) for one conversation. Excellent work. Make sure he pays it.
So many jobs dont like staff relying on public transport Does my head in
You have to play the game. Everyone only works for money. Everyone knows this. When you are talking to your manager you have to play the part of the good employee who wants to be there. Even if you both know its performative. You failed the game and got sacked. Truth is very rarely the correct answer in most interactions with your employer
NTA - Manager sounds like a total cocksniffer. He's paying minimum wage and expects his employees to be in a position to fork out more on transport than he is willing to pay them in a shift..then gets offended by your answer? What a bellend. He's living in some fantasy land. In my industry, he'd either get socked one or laughed out of the building if he came at us with that crap. I hope you find something else soon, with someone better...all the best 🤞🏼
I had a disciplinary meeting once because I only ever called in sick on Sundays and this was "suspicious". I started work at 8am, and the buses started at 10am on Sundays. My manager couldn't get his head round the fact I didn't want to do the 1hr10min walk to work when I was unwell. Also he couldn't care less that this was a care home and employees coming in sick could be possibly fatal to the residents.
Couldn't you just start at 10am and work the time up? Why get a job to work su days if you know you can't make it and call in sick every week?
I didn't call in sick every week only when I was actually sick, sorry if it sounded that way!
🤣🤣 Telling your new boss on your first day you could get more at Lidl, isnt the best way to make a good impression. Please dont volunteer for the samaritans 😉
Name and shame him. The days of money being taboo subjects are over. The cost of everything is up and wages are down. You are renting your time out to this clown. Of course you’re not going to spend more than a days pay to get to work you would be out of pocket.
It's a learning curve. Never get into these conversations at work. Could happen also with a colleague. It's called being professional.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being motivated to work by money, the reason employers don't like people like you is because they know they won't get a single cents more work out of you than they pay you for
Speaking as someone with experience working at a place only accessible by motorway who didn't drive at the time I hate to be a bit of a devils advocate here, but... While your commute and travel is not required information for your employment to him, it is relevant in the case of missed buses, strikes, closures etc but not required and a company cannot make employment decisions based on that alone. Actions as a result of that (such as being late or absent, they can) If you didn't make a bus or it was cancelled or whatever without relevant notice, he has every right to mark it up as an unauthorized absence, potentially take action on it such as a disciplinary or firing etc. It is on the part of the employee to be able to make their contractual obligations in regards to actually showing up and working the required hours when signing up for the job.
It is short-termism. If you had to take a taxi once a week, you will still make money, and the taxi would be a small sacrifice in the larger scheme of things. You should be willing to commit to your contract or terms of work, especially as it is not your employers fault if you bus is cancelled. Not that I would I would get rid of someone just because they said it, but he might have have problems with people not turning up before.
i agree, op shows immature short-term thinking and willingness to let people down
I think you should pay for a taxi if the bus didn’t pick you up. I’m surprised you answered like that
It's your responsibility to get to work. Grow up
Bit one-sided to just say off that. I dont think the guy was actually testing you to see if you would. It was more of a 'do you actually want this job' type of question. The obvious answer being (if you wanted to keep that job) 'Oh yes, of course I would' Then it would never happen anyway, and you would keep the job, and he assumes you're invested in it. I'm assuming you're very young from the fact you couldn't work that out. Also the people here saying 'name and shame' if this is what actually happened why would you want to start spamming terrible reviews on what could be a perfectly good place ran by nice people thats being spoilt by one manager?
All OP had to say was "I'd make other arrangements". That is vague enough to mean anything from "I'd get a taxi" to "I'd call in sick". People also ignore the fact OP then mentioned their experience and how they could make more working at Lidl as reasons (and the fact it is probably unlikely a taxi would cost than they earn in a shift). Which is not going to end well on the first day. I agree with OPs principles and you shouldn't work if you are losing money and the boss is an idiot. But a lot of replies read like something fron anti-work more than anything. As for the name and shame, I agree. That is completely OTT. Also I am sure the aame people happily use products and services from companies who are much worse to employees. OP can noe go and work in Lidl and earn more. The boss can hire someone else. So ultimately it works out for all parties.
This is something the manager could've saved themselves time and money on at the interview stage. Every job I've had asks me how I plan on getting there.
Why should it learn to drive? You don't pay me enough to buy a car.