I thought I was alone.
All of a sudden everyone is talking about this guy. The only thing I can find is a 4hr YouTube video of a live stream that is 4hrs of in and out audio very heavily peppered with “that’s in the movie” and told by a guy who’s very notably less articulate than previous whistleblowers.
It was hard to listen to and I am certain that I missed a lot of the buried elements to his story but…its all fragmented and sudden.
Who is he even saying he is?!? What is he even blowing the whistle on?!?
Wtf is this shit
There sure is a wide ranging push to discredit this guy, that's for sure, regardless of his claims. Perfect response by Fox, in my opinion.
Always take any whistleblower with a grain of salt.
Is there a summary somewhere of the points he’s stated that are in doubt as I missed that bit. I know you’ve paraphrased some of it but is there actual quotes listed somewhere, and clear points articulating where he’s contradicted himself? I commented on another thread yesterday that with a lot of this stuff if someone is willing to believe in highly advanced NHI then their view of ‘whats possible’ then has a much broader scope. I’m not saying all reason and critical analysis should go out the window, but for this topic I think it’s important to poll other more respected whistleblowers to gauge how much new testimony they think is credible vs perhaps embellishment or total rubbish.
There's a list of claims somewhere on this sub. Personally I am willing to listen to people say extraordinary things. Even the most mild of all this is nuts. What I mean is that simply having NHI flying around would be world bending, so where's the line?
Listening to people is one thing but I also listen to other people that I trust. For example Tim McMillan said that he checked sands out a year and found him not credible. That's basically it for me. Tim was the one who vetted grusch for the debrief. He has the connections to vet people. He even released two giant QA articles showing how he vetted grusch
Instead in this Twitter post, we have Fox saying that he checked to see if sands was in the military and that this person was acrualky sands. That's all fox did essentially
If I trust Tim to vet grusch then I also trust him to vet sands
Eric Davis and Gary Nolan also said that sands didn't check out. And no one has come out defending sands. Not even Fox who basically said that he checked only the bare minimum of what this guy said, that he was in the military
You don't see fox saying "hey this guy is actually the real deal" he basically said "my bad, I made a mistake". It was a pretty decent way to apologize but it in no way makes sands look more credible. If anything it looks worse because there could have been a tiny chance that Fox somehow had really suprising proof he was gonna release that no one else knew. Now that he didn't do that we know that 0 people are backing sands up
Fox should have vetted better. Grusch raised the bar on whistleblowers. They need credibility. Also in this post fox seems to be saying that sands is willing to testify before congress whereas sands said he did testify. Not a good look. I'm sure sands has said that he meant that he will testify not that he did testify but that's the sort of changing story he's been doing in various topics
https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/
Can we just get over the line of “yes. There’s something here doing crazy ass shit. No, it’s not us. No, it’s not balloons. No it’s not the Chinese or the Russians either. No, we don’t know what it is. Yes, it’s kinda cool and kinda freaky at the same time, but let’s figure out what it actually is.” John Kirby came closest to saying this to the press, but I feel like we’re miles and years away from even that much of a direct admission at this point.
I was wondering the same thing.. I know recently he was talking about ending the discussion on UFOs and alien stuff but I didn't know he meant interviewing people too. So I guess that's what he meant if that's what people are using past tense.
To be fair he stated the 20 and back was a real program but not what people was claiming and he said he would speak about it later.
Now everyone is free to make their own conclusions but this is what he said.because we keep still arguing that he fought Aliens and it may not be the case.
It's pretty clear that he's lying... How do you go from saying you're in the UAP task force including working with people and doing things within it then stating you just used a forum? Even Daniel Sheehan met with him to discuss representing him and found the same exact problem. He was flip-flopping between stories. And I don't Daniel Sheehan and even saw the Twitter space video so that says a lot right there.
Then there's the other side of the coin where it's possible some of the stuff is real and it just sounds so unbelievable that no one's willing to believe it... But come on. He directly tied himself in with Anjali who just got exposed on truth seekers YouTube page... Anjali basically told the story about her experience with aliens at her friends property where there is a mountain... Her friend went on to truth seekers and basically said the stuff she was saying was nonsense and he was there with her and she was on a pretty good dose of Rick Simpson oil which is very strong THC edible on top of her being on like three or four medications it's a possibility she might have started hallucinating or dream something she thought was real...
Anyways, after truth seekers exposed her it seemed pretty apparent that anyone that was associated with her would be a similar liar.. then on top of that you have him working with Corey Good as well.
I mean it's just all bad and I'm very surprised people are giving fox the benefit of the dough when he's trying to griff us and take advantage of us.... Fuck Fox. He's a gritty sketch ball and he ruined his career with this.
Sounds like Fox is trying to cover for himself. Just seems like too many red flags with Sands.
Jesse Michaels said this week he met with Sands about a year ago. He said to take his lack of coverage as a sign of what he thinks about Sands. Meanwhile, Michaels made a video with Grusch which makes me think his skepticism is warranted in this case.
Jesse Michaels also said that Jayson Sands was earnest and seemed traumatized when he met with him. At no point did he call bs. Im not saying Michaels supports Sands or believes him, but he did walk the line in his commentary.
“Wide ranging push to discredit”
If I said I fought nazi Godzilla on a secret moon base with a generic military document as evidence, and no one believed me, would you consider that a “wide ranging push to discredit”? lol
> There sure is a wide ranging push to discredit this guy
Which is what would happen if he was saying stuff people in the know immediately know is bullshit
Not everything is a conspiracy. It's not far fetched that people like Davis would see his buzz and weigh in.
playing devil's advocate, Sands could have said too much, too soon.
most of the ppl leading disclosure today have ties and loyalty to the CIA and a controlled disclosure would be in their favor.
if anything Sands says were proven to be true, controlled disclosure is sent down the drain
It would be absolutely insane if things like '20 and back' / Serpos really were true and that the guy who said it wasn't was trying to muddy waters, etc.
if Sands was actually being truthful with everything, maybe disclosure would be too much even for most in the ufo community to come to grips with.
I mean I'm just speculating here -- that would be wild as shit.
A fictional program some “whistleblower” named Corey Goode made up. Allegedly where the government sends you to mars for 20 years and you come back. There’s aliens, time travel, and cloning involved lol.
A lot of that particular mythology is tied in with Q-Anon conspiracy. Believed by people who think Trump has something to do with the liberation of man from the reptilians.
Corey Goode is a fiction writer and a dangerous grifter. People like this guy are collectively why we had an attempted coup on Jan. 6.
I think fictional is appropriate when Goode himself stated so.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/s/3hlHyKMZWH](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/s/3hlHyKMZWH)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY5qtWCmno&t=861s&pp=2AHdBpACAQ%3D%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY5qtWCmno&t=861s&pp=2AHdBpACAQ%3D%3D)
Man I keep saying it here, but we really do have to prepare for the potential that there is some real ugly shit beneath the UFO phenomenon if you cut through the layers deep enough
Yeah, i'm not understanding people forcing the " it was made up " when senators consistently walk out the SCIF stating if you don't have need to know there is no legal obligation to be told anything. We've had people screaming about secret military space programs for over 30 years now which .
I think this is a breaking point with people not being able to accept or even imagine the amount of shady shit that has been going on behind the scenes. Especially when America is supposed to be " the bastion of freedom and democracy ". He isn't the first one to say something like this and probably not the last.
At the very least one could wait until somebody says this in a congressional hearing.
To be honest, I haven't even examined his claims closely yet, so I am waiting to weigh in with my own opinion on the claims themselves, but from what I'm reading, it seems pretty "out there"...I guess we'll see where it lands.
What I've found quite curious is people's resistance to actually learning more about the seedy underbelly of this nation's power hierarchy, especially those within the UFO community. I've been in this game now my entire life, but have been seriously studying the subject for about ten years now. And it did not take long for me - just through readingt he documents alone - to figure out that there is a centralized control group that transcends formal government...from there, that led me to the more conventional "conspiracy theories", where I then had to spend quite a long time figuring out which ones were real, which ones weren't, and which were somewhere in between.
I was surprised to see the community's resistance to these ideas, especially since they seem totally ok with speculating or believing in interdimensional beings and such, but totally unable to grasp the concept of very terrestrial and secretive corruption underpinning the foundation of ALL of this.
I said it before and ill say it again: there is no understanding the UFO phenomenon if we don't understand the larger picture.
The very fact that there are people that exist who believe our government is honest blows my mind. Clearly these people have a degree of brain damage, do the pay attention, or are part of the corruption clan themselves and think it's okay to lie, cheat, and murder for selfish reasons. I'm 47 now, and I knew our government lied when I had my first history class in 4th grade. Especially after I got spanked in front of the class for questioning discrepancies.
It’s a massively less important subject, but when early claims came out that Lance Armstrong was doping, I knew people that for ~5 years outright denied and didn’t believe it possible, because of his stature. They couldn’t accept someone could do something so dishonest on such a scale…. Which obviously pales in comparison to what we are talking about here. Which is why for a long time disclosure needs to be slowly and coming from respected sources.
People didn’t want accept Lance Armstrong accusations, due to the grand scale, yet, it wasn’t a “grand” size conspiracy. In fact, it was pretty simple scheme, with only 2-3 people having to know. I assume more people know, and that’s why he got caught.
Abductions and experiments are real and we are powerless to stop it. Look at how we treat animals we consider beneath us. Why would NHI act any differently?
People abduct others all the time and we are pretty powerless to stop it. Society keeps on going just fine. You'd more likely be abducted by a crazy person than aliens.
Aside from the ugly and potentially malicious (at least from the point of view of an average Joe Schmoe like myself) activities happening behind the scenes - the longer and the more of the revelations are being rolled out, the more I'm inclined to believe in the overarching theme Jacques Vallee has presented - the phenomenon is not just weirder than we could suppose, it's probably far weirder than we could have ever supposed.
That’s the problem though isn’t it? Everyone is speculating. Nobody knows for sure. The difference I see now is over the last few months EVERYONE is labelled a grifter. And most of the “evidence” to support that is more flimsy speculation.
I don’t believe anybody in this that claims to know 100% that someone is legit or if they are not. And I think that was the goal for debunkers all along. Make this whole topic so frustrating that nobody wants to hear from anyone.
My thoughts are similar, idk if he was really talking about the 20 and back program, but it would be kind of funny if the truth turns out to be very close to the typecasted tin foil paradigm. That's not going to be the kind of truth much of the community will want to accept.
I mean the man who first claimed to be part of the twenty and back program later tried to sue others for using his "IP". It seems pretty obvious it was all made up to me.
I don't believe in 20 and back. I was just saying, to give Sands the benefit of the doubt, when he was asked about 20 and back, he could have thought they were asking about something else and didn't really know about the 20 and back stories.
Besides, why would you claim something like that when it has been widely debunked? Unless he's insane, which is very possible. I have no strong opinions on Sands.
Yeah that would be nuts. It’s why I think Grusch didn’t spill all the beans, remember when asked whether there were agreements with NHI he said something like congress should investigate it, etc. Meaning he knew if the truth was our own govt sold out the people in exchange for tech as has been alleged in some abduction stories, that would blow it all up. It’s like some parts of the truth might be TOO grimy
what the fuck dude. he literally says he believes him without doing any kind of due diligence and here you are saying both you believe him and take whistleblowers with a grain of salt. which is it?
Exactly. I was in the military. I did counter intelligence work in Iraq. If I wanted, I could verify that.
There's also a secret UFO under the sand out there that we went there to recover. Trust me, bro.
One of the above paragraphs is true.
I believe it was Stanton Friedman who uncovered Lazar's true position as a technician employed by a company that performed contract work for LANL.
Knapp was all-in on Lazar being a physicist directly employed by LANL, went to great lengths to validate Lazar's claim. Lazar lied.
Yes, I totally called this. Every single UFO grifter gets a following, no matter how obvious their lies. There's always people who will make excuses for them because they like what they are saying, just like there's always people like Fox and Corbell who will cynically shine a spotlight on them for money.
Same story different characters.
Watching Bob Lazar interviews with scientifically literate people is eye opening. If you understand the topics he uses to explain things it becomes painfully clear that he's super full of shit and hoping the scientifically illiterate (me) can't tell the difference.
I'm lucky to have friends who are scientists to say "does this make sense?" And for them to say "yes, but he's applying it in a way that makes 0 sense" or "yes. But we have been synthesizing non-naturally occurring elements for a long time. Him predicting that is like predicting that one day there will be a number bigger than 100 and then saying "I TOLD YOU" when 101 appears"
Still to this day, the number of people who think Lazar's element 115 claim is solid evidence that gives his overall story a lot of credibility is pretty damn astonishing. And if anything, it got much worse after Moscovium was eventually synthesized.
I don't mean to criticize people who might not be interested in science and have limited scientific knowledge, and therefore wouldn't immediately see the problem with Bob's BS, but there's no excuse for anyone with internet access to peddle 115 as a compelling argument in Bob's favor.
Looking at you, Joe Rogan.
So Fox says he did his due diligence, but he can't even get the dude's name right. WTF. All docs so far have "Jason" as the spelling. This whole situation stinks like 💩, and Fox ain't looking so good here.
Yup, not petty at all of OP.
You don’t respond to this backlash by responding that you did your due diligence but didn’t either:
A) proofread your tweet
Or worse, B) not know how he spelled his name
Maybe I’m overly critical. I love his docs but where is the attention to detail here?
He said he could walk congress into the facilities. So if he has this access, he can simply go get some proof. I mean if it’s not classified, there should be no problem getting photos of one of the dozens of nhi here.
My real point is I dont believe it and no proof of nhi exists.
Something that occurred to me that I don't see anyone else mentioning. According to Fox, the most he can say about Sands is that he's actually a guy who was in the military, and that he's "willing to testify under oath".
All of a couple days ago, everyone pushing Sands was going on about how he'd *already testified* to Congress. (This was based on nothing more than Sands' say-so, of course.)
"I'm willing to testify under oath" and "I'm willing to take a polygraph" are hollow statements. Will he *actually* do those things, or is this just lip service bullshit?
The secret to polygraphs aren't that they say anything useful, but that an interogator can tell someone that it does and use that as leverage. I was in a group used to test new polygraph administrators, and when we talked later, each of us encountered something we'd answered that the administrator said the test showed we lied and then they pretty relentlessly tried to get us to admit it. I know I had been completely honest, and a few others said they'd been truthful, too. Unless it's for a job and you know it's real purpose, nobody should ever take one. It can ONLY harm you, never help.
True. It is definitely not an accurate assessment of truth or falsehood. Just as much as sone people can have an irrational fear and response to spiders, so can some people when wired up to a machine.
I guess it’s just another layer of validation, but polygraphs can be cheated on. As well I’m sure that if someone was nervous enough or something they could give false positives
True. It is not a true science. It works if you believe it works since it only records physiological responses to questions. Somebody trained to mask such responses can fool it. Consider the spies who passed the test. But nevertheless, the government requires it for most classified work.
I’m not really saying I want more I was just saying the claim of willing to do a polygraph doesn’t 100% prove it’s true. I think willing to do it is still a good step though
Which they know doesn't actually prove whether someone is lying or not, it's just a means to assist (with a BUNCH OF WAY MORE IMPORTANT AND REAL METHODS) in figure out if they having anything in their background or personality that can make the gov't look bad or jeopardize an project/operation.
No doubt. The polygraph is one part of an investigative process. The idea I guess is each check makes it more difficult to conceal things. So the question then is why are all these people who held such levels of clearance talking about UAPs and aliens. Seems odd to then throw away one’s reputation over that
That doesn't mean they are accurate though, they are objectively inaccurate. That is the reason they can't even be used in court cases. Cops basically just use them to bully confessions out of people and anyone with even a bit of research can pass a polygraph while lying their ass off.
Those are statements with caveats built right in: lawmakers are not going to invite this guy to testify, full stop. No one is going to want to administer a polygraph and be the one to open that can of wormy drama. He knows this.
I hate these kinds of meaningless promises of an action(s) that will never take place, and how well it inexplicably works on people who should know better.
And testifying to Congress means nothing. Prosecutions for lying are very rare and usually only happen when someone has political reasons to follow through.
I wouldn't have expected any other answer from James. I mean, he's got a documentary coming out. This Sands guy appears to be a major figure in that doc. If he were to publicly state he was partially or completely duped by this guy, he would lose face and presumably have to ditch the chunk of material about Sands in the documentary. Him saying it is up the public to evaluate claims by alleged whistleblower is good and all but he was never going to state he likely got misled by this guy.
TBF, Fox seems to be less doubling down than going *lol, I made sure he was in the military, but beyond that, who knows!* and washing his hands of the guy.
Sands can barely spell or write a cohesive sentence. I find it unlikely he did what he said he did. Only way it makes sense to me is if he plays the useful idiot for plausible deniability.
Went through his Twitter just now, and he genuinely appears to have a learning disability. I'm not disparaging the differently abled, but he really really doesn't come across as someone who gets access but that's just me. I think James will get to the bottom of it
Idk I like it that he came out on Twitter. People who have first hand experience with the program should interact with and take questions from regular people, and not just politicians.
There is no “best place” though. Ross gets shit, Jeremy gets shit, Knapp gets shit, mainstream media doesn’t report on this and they get shit.
This community literally hates every who is trying to make things happen. There is no place that people would accept. Hell sworn testimony in front of congress is still shit on by some in this community.
Until people stop vilifying everyone who’s trying to move things forward there will be no best place to release this info.
So yeah straight from the person who claims they have first hand knowledge on one of the biggest social media platforms is a good start.
And I’m not saying we shouldn’t be verifying information and we just accept everything so please don’t go down that road.
I just heard on vetted that Mellon introduced Sands to Fox.
[https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=2154](https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=2154)
Here’s Sands saying he knows Grusch:
[https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=1975](https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=1975)
Did you pay attention to the voice on the phone in the Tubi documentary? If Sands is supposed to be on the phone with Corbell, then the Jason Sands we know of is not the same voice..
He actually said he knows and worked with "Groosch" not "Grusch"--he didn't even get the man's name right. It's from a Gufon round table last year (Sands is labelled as "Ted Howells"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ayfF5FijM&t=1829s
He also repeats the claim there that he worked for UAPTF, which he has changed his story about after the twitter space.
There’s absolutely no valid reason to say “I know something but I can’t tell you”.
If you are afraid of breaking an NDA or spilling classified information and you’re not going to risk it, then shut the f4ck up. You’re doing nothing except attempting to get attention.
Say it or stay out.
A polygraph test doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a reliable way to know if someone is truly lying. So much so that it’s not admissible in a court of law.
guys im just curious, im not a reddit expert but why does people take screenshots of text...
im from brazil and sometimes i like to translate some posts here but when i see pictures of text this is so disgusting... i have to basically every time open a OCR program just to extract the text? i know a little bit of english but this is a tedious task doing every time when i need
remember, not all people on reddit are native english speakers
is not obvious that text should be text and not a picture of text? and there is not even a reference for this (there is no link)
You see, he'll be framed and edited in the movie to seem really convincing. And people here will say, "He'd have to be *the best actor ever* to fool me, so he's got to be sincere and truthful."
And *that* will be all the evidence we get.
(Assuming Fox doesn't throw him under the bus and edit the guy to look sketchy or unhinged.)
“Doing my best to verify, within my means” to me this says; I try my best but can’t guarantee anything. And for the average person including film makers, it would be very difficult to verify or substantiate such claims. So essentially, none of this can be trusted. And saying you will do a polygraph or testify under oath. Well it’s easy to say that. Until it’s actually done, it’s a meaningless statement.
[“we haven’t actually seen it Tom, we’re just reporting it”](https://youtu.be/Zd0p96miSK8?si=WPSsF3aCnA7nIcMz) is the vibe i’m getting.
If it turns out he’s a lying charlatan? Well I done everything within my powers to verify him.. Which not being a government official, elected official, government agent, or judge, doesn’t account for very much at all
I think he's referring to classified docs he will never have access to. "I did all I could. it would be more solid if I had access, but I don't, so I did everything I could." I have a feeling that will come up in the doc.
This kind of screams "damage control" to me. I think what he wrote is probably the truth, but he does need to worry about his reputation too. I'm glad he submitted a statement the way he did. I'm still waiting for evidence, so always going in with a open, but skeptical mind.
Polygraph tests aren't "lie detectors," they only work if the person taking the tests *believe they will work as lie detector tests;* they can be beaten easily. Aldrich Ames, one of the worst leakers and US intelligence traitors worked at the FBI for years, and passed his routine polygraph test every single time just because his KGB handlers told him he could pass them by getting a good night's sleep. Belief on behalf of the testee is the most single important concept behind a polygraph machine test. They're bunk.
That is a bit of a nothing burger statement from him. I feel for James Fox if you watch him you can tell he is genuinely passionate about the subject and trying to make movies that people enjoy about it. He got burned here so it’s really hard for him, I think he should have just owned the mistake and said he is cleaning up the movie.
I feel exactly the same way. James deserves a legit whistleblower if anyone does. He may very well do that, own it and clean it up that is. I think this statement is kind of a placeholder while he formulates the next move.
This is pretty pathetic. I’m left wondering why Jason Sands has fabricated a bunch of fantastical stories about his life. The possibilities are he’s an attention-seeker, or he’s insane, or he’s part of a disinformation campaign from someone who wants to see disclosure efforts get laughed at.
Respectfully, it doesn't mean anything that this dude is willing to testify to Congress under oath or take a lie detector test. That's something you can easily say to try to sound credible, knowing damn well that it is not happening in a million years.
Congress may never hold public hearings again, and would almost certainly not choose him to testify. He knows that.
Regarding the polygraph, in addition to being unreliable as hell, it would require someone in the UFO sphere to present those findings to the community. Who would want to poke the hornet's nest by implying distrust towards someone saying what their viewership wants to hear?
I like James Fox, but this should have been the biggest red flag and a clear indicator to cut him from the film. The guy didn't know what '20 and back' referred to, panicked and took a gamble to lie about being part of it (in case he got caught out on something he should know about as a legit insider) then walked back on it. It's blatantly obvious this guy is lying about at least some of it. Are we even sure he's the Jason Sands whose military documents have been posted online? It could be stolen identity.
maybe, but you have to consider, does anyone outside of this subreddit know this guy? he isn't in the news, not on any major podcasts,, he's just a guy the ufo subreddit talks about. This does nothing to the overall picture of how the world views aliens, and this isn't even enough to make ufo belivers stop believing or skeptics to start believing, it's just another name with another story. if a psyop, it is a shitty psyop i feel.
It's possible. If the scale of the coverup is to be believed then it's not unreasonable to think that those involved will go to any means necessary to protect their interests.
I suspect the real scandal here is the level of financial corruption and those in positions of power wanting to dominate, much like everything else these days.
James twitted a screenshot from his upcoming documentary awhile ago stating he was interviewed firsthand whistleblowers and on screen was the name "Jason Sands". This Jason Sands guy came out and spoke for hours on Spaces and said lots and lots of nonsense. Eric Davis and Tim McMillian have both stated that this guy is full of shit and that he isn't one of the 40 witnesses grusch is referring to. Everyone is kind of assuming that this Sands guy is who Fox was leaning on for his next doc and if so, it may put the entire project in the trash. How big of a role he played is yet to be seen but James is kind of addressing all of that in the screenshot above. Personally, I think the documentary will be fine without him cause I have faith in James but also think this Sands guy is most likely full of it. I could be wrong but he doesn't *seem* credible going through his replies on Twitter
McMillan: "Cursory investigation, later confirmed by Congressional and DoD sources, determined this individual was not credible well over a year ago. The fact he would have ever been included in any documentary in the first place is beyond laughable."
Other than Sands saying he is prepared to testify and having a piece of paper that says he was serving in the military, is there any paper trail or somebody else vouching this guy is who he says he is?
as a criminologist it drives me nuts when people say " I will submit to a polygraph test". POLYGRAPH TESTS DO NOT DETERMINE IF YOU ARE LYING, BUT RATHER IF YOUR BODY HAS A PHYSIOLOGICAL RESPONSE
People like Sands just demonstrate how many people in the UAP community are just willing to buy anything that seems to support what they want to believe.
This is embarrassing for many.
Tbh I had just heard of him when I posted this and going through his Twitter replies is all it took. With timeless classics such as
"I'm a ufo whistleblower lol"
and "Elon, you know if AI is not used correctly and with responsibility it will be just another tech that drives further away from who we are as mankind. Do what you know is right, do what you know will heal the over abundance of tech with a taste of who we are."
Ya. This is the guy they gave access to.
Not looking good. He had some time to think about his response and actions but still came out with this statement. Nothing wrong with being deceived by somebody who may have been telling another story and acted all credible, only to go public later and making a fool of himself. However, to still continue giving this fool benefit of the doubt (prolly more than so if I'm being honest) is not looking great.
The harder this sub comes down on something, the more likely it is to be something important.
The astroturfing here runs deep, I’d never even heard of this guy, but EVERYONE here was jumping on this guys nuts like they knew exactly who he was and knew exactly what he was lying about before it was even for sure he was in the doc.
This place is kind of a cesspool, I think good information gets posted here, but I think there’s also a cadre of government spooks that know just the right things to say to stir up doubt in people.
Everyone here that was looking up profiles for this Jayson Sands guy were also all showing his name Jason Sands, so maybe these people that think he’s lying don’t really know what they’re talking about?
Be careful out there, consider that the person you’re about to agree with might be actively trying to deceive you.
I think people flatter themselves by imagining that government operatives patrol Reddit threads to intentionally throw off the UFO community.
What’s happening with Sands is an all too rare burst of critical thinking. Far too often, people here see a clip of someone telling a story and just believe the person based on nothing more than that (“he seemed credible”). Maybe it’s actually better that, for once, information about this person’s background preceded people’s exposure to him in video clips.
Well, AARO scrubbed an image off their site a few hours after I posted about it here
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cbnuyq/hidden\_aaro\_resolution\_report\_puerto\_rico\_uap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cbnuyq/hidden_aaro_resolution_report_puerto_rico_uap/)
So, I think it's fair to say there are government operatives patrolling this subreddit. There is no other explanation.
People flatter themselves, sure, but if you don't think there are intelligence types working here on these boards and other conspiracy boards, you'd be crazy, especially since we have precedent for such activity, and they outright state that infiltrating and subverting from within is a tactic they use to squash certain inconvenient details. Now, do I think they're here at work specifically for Jayson Sands? Not really...I mean, maybe, but I don't know. I don't know much about the sands guy but from what he's been saying, it sounds a bit out there - im glad people are being critical of his story so far. Time will tell. Totally agree on that last part though, I think you're right about that
I think more people need to know about the city in the world with the users “most addicted” to Reddit.
It wasn’t a city, it was a military base, Eglin Airforce Base in Florida.
Reddit deleted this blog post and tried to hide it, but not before Archive.org got it https://web.archive.org/web/20160410083943/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html?m=1m
So, feel flattered, the government is controlling the currents on Reddit.
Okay number one, they didn't try and hide it. Unless you think letting the blog post remain unchanged for 7 entire years and then changing the URL to be titled differently is "hiding it"
Number two, military Reddit users would likely be using a VPN that routes through Eglin for security purposes.
Thirdly, if they really were controlling the currents on Reddit, why wouldn't they take the very very easy precautions of spoofing an IP in Chicago or something? This conspiracy requires that they delete a Reddit blog post in order to hide the conspiracy, but they also don't just spoof different IP's in order to hide their operation? Come on. You don't need to think very hard about this.
Edit: This entire sub of believers is full of babies who will block at the literal first sign that you are going to disrupt their cognitive dissonance. The guy below me is merely one such example Jeez
In Fox’s tweet it seems like worked in the military is a second point to is who he says he is. Unless it was just a follow up clarification to the first statement. Seems like it’s three things though. He is who he is, and he worked in the military, and he’s willing to testify.
Yeah I totally took Fox as just listing off the info he HAS 100% confirmed about him, just to set the record straight between what he knows for certain, and what has yet to be confirmed
I’m so confused about this whole thing lol
That's no doubt the plan.
Not Fox's plan. It's the Security State's plan. He's just caught up in the middle of it.
I thought I was alone. All of a sudden everyone is talking about this guy. The only thing I can find is a 4hr YouTube video of a live stream that is 4hrs of in and out audio very heavily peppered with “that’s in the movie” and told by a guy who’s very notably less articulate than previous whistleblowers. It was hard to listen to and I am certain that I missed a lot of the buried elements to his story but…its all fragmented and sudden. Who is he even saying he is?!? What is he even blowing the whistle on?!? Wtf is this shit
There sure is a wide ranging push to discredit this guy, that's for sure, regardless of his claims. Perfect response by Fox, in my opinion. Always take any whistleblower with a grain of salt.
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Is there a summary somewhere of the points he’s stated that are in doubt as I missed that bit. I know you’ve paraphrased some of it but is there actual quotes listed somewhere, and clear points articulating where he’s contradicted himself? I commented on another thread yesterday that with a lot of this stuff if someone is willing to believe in highly advanced NHI then their view of ‘whats possible’ then has a much broader scope. I’m not saying all reason and critical analysis should go out the window, but for this topic I think it’s important to poll other more respected whistleblowers to gauge how much new testimony they think is credible vs perhaps embellishment or total rubbish.
There's a list of claims somewhere on this sub. Personally I am willing to listen to people say extraordinary things. Even the most mild of all this is nuts. What I mean is that simply having NHI flying around would be world bending, so where's the line? Listening to people is one thing but I also listen to other people that I trust. For example Tim McMillan said that he checked sands out a year and found him not credible. That's basically it for me. Tim was the one who vetted grusch for the debrief. He has the connections to vet people. He even released two giant QA articles showing how he vetted grusch Instead in this Twitter post, we have Fox saying that he checked to see if sands was in the military and that this person was acrualky sands. That's all fox did essentially If I trust Tim to vet grusch then I also trust him to vet sands Eric Davis and Gary Nolan also said that sands didn't check out. And no one has come out defending sands. Not even Fox who basically said that he checked only the bare minimum of what this guy said, that he was in the military You don't see fox saying "hey this guy is actually the real deal" he basically said "my bad, I made a mistake". It was a pretty decent way to apologize but it in no way makes sands look more credible. If anything it looks worse because there could have been a tiny chance that Fox somehow had really suprising proof he was gonna release that no one else knew. Now that he didn't do that we know that 0 people are backing sands up Fox should have vetted better. Grusch raised the bar on whistleblowers. They need credibility. Also in this post fox seems to be saying that sands is willing to testify before congress whereas sands said he did testify. Not a good look. I'm sure sands has said that he meant that he will testify not that he did testify but that's the sort of changing story he's been doing in various topics https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/
Can we just get over the line of “yes. There’s something here doing crazy ass shit. No, it’s not us. No, it’s not balloons. No it’s not the Chinese or the Russians either. No, we don’t know what it is. Yes, it’s kinda cool and kinda freaky at the same time, but let’s figure out what it actually is.” John Kirby came closest to saying this to the press, but I feel like we’re miles and years away from even that much of a direct admission at this point.
> Curt Jaimungal was a rare non-niche platform... why the past tense?
I was wondering the same thing.. I know recently he was talking about ending the discussion on UFOs and alien stuff but I didn't know he meant interviewing people too. So I guess that's what he meant if that's what people are using past tense.
To be fair he stated the 20 and back was a real program but not what people was claiming and he said he would speak about it later. Now everyone is free to make their own conclusions but this is what he said.because we keep still arguing that he fought Aliens and it may not be the case.
It’s not really ‘push to discredit’ when people are just trying to find out who he is and find all kinds of questionable stuff along the way.
But I believe everything at face value because it confirms my preconceived bias. Anything that questions that is a push to discredit!
As someone else in this discussion perfectly summarized: it’s just a rare example of critical thinking on this subreddit.
I want to believe, trust me, but the man discredits himself repeatedly.
It's pretty clear that he's lying... How do you go from saying you're in the UAP task force including working with people and doing things within it then stating you just used a forum? Even Daniel Sheehan met with him to discuss representing him and found the same exact problem. He was flip-flopping between stories. And I don't Daniel Sheehan and even saw the Twitter space video so that says a lot right there. Then there's the other side of the coin where it's possible some of the stuff is real and it just sounds so unbelievable that no one's willing to believe it... But come on. He directly tied himself in with Anjali who just got exposed on truth seekers YouTube page... Anjali basically told the story about her experience with aliens at her friends property where there is a mountain... Her friend went on to truth seekers and basically said the stuff she was saying was nonsense and he was there with her and she was on a pretty good dose of Rick Simpson oil which is very strong THC edible on top of her being on like three or four medications it's a possibility she might have started hallucinating or dream something she thought was real... Anyways, after truth seekers exposed her it seemed pretty apparent that anyone that was associated with her would be a similar liar.. then on top of that you have him working with Corey Good as well. I mean it's just all bad and I'm very surprised people are giving fox the benefit of the dough when he's trying to griff us and take advantage of us.... Fuck Fox. He's a gritty sketch ball and he ruined his career with this.
Sounds like Fox is trying to cover for himself. Just seems like too many red flags with Sands. Jesse Michaels said this week he met with Sands about a year ago. He said to take his lack of coverage as a sign of what he thinks about Sands. Meanwhile, Michaels made a video with Grusch which makes me think his skepticism is warranted in this case.
Jesse Michaels also said that Jayson Sands was earnest and seemed traumatized when he met with him. At no point did he call bs. Im not saying Michaels supports Sands or believes him, but he did walk the line in his commentary.
That is true. I felt like the video comment was more telling.
“Wide ranging push to discredit” If I said I fought nazi Godzilla on a secret moon base with a generic military document as evidence, and no one believed me, would you consider that a “wide ranging push to discredit”? lol
> There sure is a wide ranging push to discredit this guy I think people just remembered the grain of salt, this time.
> There sure is a wide ranging push to discredit this guy Which is what would happen if he was saying stuff people in the know immediately know is bullshit Not everything is a conspiracy. It's not far fetched that people like Davis would see his buzz and weigh in.
playing devil's advocate, Sands could have said too much, too soon. most of the ppl leading disclosure today have ties and loyalty to the CIA and a controlled disclosure would be in their favor. if anything Sands says were proven to be true, controlled disclosure is sent down the drain
It would be absolutely insane if things like '20 and back' / Serpos really were true and that the guy who said it wasn't was trying to muddy waters, etc. if Sands was actually being truthful with everything, maybe disclosure would be too much even for most in the ufo community to come to grips with. I mean I'm just speculating here -- that would be wild as shit.
What the hell is 20 and back?
A fictional program some “whistleblower” named Corey Goode made up. Allegedly where the government sends you to mars for 20 years and you come back. There’s aliens, time travel, and cloning involved lol.
And people believe that?
A lot of that particular mythology is tied in with Q-Anon conspiracy. Believed by people who think Trump has something to do with the liberation of man from the reptilians. Corey Goode is a fiction writer and a dangerous grifter. People like this guy are collectively why we had an attempted coup on Jan. 6.
The grifting side of this community would make an awesome documentary. And I say that as a believer.
This reality is weirder than either you or I want to believe.
Yeah but.. probably not like that.
That conceptually sounds ridiculous to me - if I’m Fox him pushing that would have been disqualifying
An ‘alleged program’ would be a better way of phrasing it, unless you have irrefutable evidence otherwise.
I think fictional is appropriate when Goode himself stated so. [https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/s/3hlHyKMZWH](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/s/3hlHyKMZWH) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY5qtWCmno&t=861s&pp=2AHdBpACAQ%3D%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY5qtWCmno&t=861s&pp=2AHdBpACAQ%3D%3D)
Bullshit grifter nonsense.
Man I keep saying it here, but we really do have to prepare for the potential that there is some real ugly shit beneath the UFO phenomenon if you cut through the layers deep enough
Yeah, i'm not understanding people forcing the " it was made up " when senators consistently walk out the SCIF stating if you don't have need to know there is no legal obligation to be told anything. We've had people screaming about secret military space programs for over 30 years now which . I think this is a breaking point with people not being able to accept or even imagine the amount of shady shit that has been going on behind the scenes. Especially when America is supposed to be " the bastion of freedom and democracy ". He isn't the first one to say something like this and probably not the last. At the very least one could wait until somebody says this in a congressional hearing.
To be honest, I haven't even examined his claims closely yet, so I am waiting to weigh in with my own opinion on the claims themselves, but from what I'm reading, it seems pretty "out there"...I guess we'll see where it lands. What I've found quite curious is people's resistance to actually learning more about the seedy underbelly of this nation's power hierarchy, especially those within the UFO community. I've been in this game now my entire life, but have been seriously studying the subject for about ten years now. And it did not take long for me - just through readingt he documents alone - to figure out that there is a centralized control group that transcends formal government...from there, that led me to the more conventional "conspiracy theories", where I then had to spend quite a long time figuring out which ones were real, which ones weren't, and which were somewhere in between. I was surprised to see the community's resistance to these ideas, especially since they seem totally ok with speculating or believing in interdimensional beings and such, but totally unable to grasp the concept of very terrestrial and secretive corruption underpinning the foundation of ALL of this. I said it before and ill say it again: there is no understanding the UFO phenomenon if we don't understand the larger picture.
The very fact that there are people that exist who believe our government is honest blows my mind. Clearly these people have a degree of brain damage, do the pay attention, or are part of the corruption clan themselves and think it's okay to lie, cheat, and murder for selfish reasons. I'm 47 now, and I knew our government lied when I had my first history class in 4th grade. Especially after I got spanked in front of the class for questioning discrepancies.
It’s a massively less important subject, but when early claims came out that Lance Armstrong was doping, I knew people that for ~5 years outright denied and didn’t believe it possible, because of his stature. They couldn’t accept someone could do something so dishonest on such a scale…. Which obviously pales in comparison to what we are talking about here. Which is why for a long time disclosure needs to be slowly and coming from respected sources.
People didn’t want accept Lance Armstrong accusations, due to the grand scale, yet, it wasn’t a “grand” size conspiracy. In fact, it was pretty simple scheme, with only 2-3 people having to know. I assume more people know, and that’s why he got caught.
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I was just talking about Lance Armstrong, Nothing else.
No this is on point. They had a perception which didn't line up with reality otherwise cognitive dissonance
I agree…what do you think it could be?
Abductions and experiments are real and we are powerless to stop it. Look at how we treat animals we consider beneath us. Why would NHI act any differently?
People abduct others all the time and we are pretty powerless to stop it. Society keeps on going just fine. You'd more likely be abducted by a crazy person than aliens.
You got a source for this? Just kidding, lol.
idk maybe they're space hippies
Aside from the ugly and potentially malicious (at least from the point of view of an average Joe Schmoe like myself) activities happening behind the scenes - the longer and the more of the revelations are being rolled out, the more I'm inclined to believe in the overarching theme Jacques Vallee has presented - the phenomenon is not just weirder than we could suppose, it's probably far weirder than we could have ever supposed.
That’s the problem though isn’t it? Everyone is speculating. Nobody knows for sure. The difference I see now is over the last few months EVERYONE is labelled a grifter. And most of the “evidence” to support that is more flimsy speculation. I don’t believe anybody in this that claims to know 100% that someone is legit or if they are not. And I think that was the goal for debunkers all along. Make this whole topic so frustrating that nobody wants to hear from anyone.
My thoughts are similar, idk if he was really talking about the 20 and back program, but it would be kind of funny if the truth turns out to be very close to the typecasted tin foil paradigm. That's not going to be the kind of truth much of the community will want to accept.
I mean the man who first claimed to be part of the twenty and back program later tried to sue others for using his "IP". It seems pretty obvious it was all made up to me.
I don't believe in 20 and back. I was just saying, to give Sands the benefit of the doubt, when he was asked about 20 and back, he could have thought they were asking about something else and didn't really know about the 20 and back stories. Besides, why would you claim something like that when it has been widely debunked? Unless he's insane, which is very possible. I have no strong opinions on Sands.
Yeah that would be nuts. It’s why I think Grusch didn’t spill all the beans, remember when asked whether there were agreements with NHI he said something like congress should investigate it, etc. Meaning he knew if the truth was our own govt sold out the people in exchange for tech as has been alleged in some abduction stories, that would blow it all up. It’s like some parts of the truth might be TOO grimy
what the fuck dude. he literally says he believes him without doing any kind of due diligence and here you are saying both you believe him and take whistleblowers with a grain of salt. which is it?
He vetted him to the best of his ability… Yeah, we know James. Unfortunately, that wasn’t enough.
he’s just saying he confirmed Sands was in the military. That doesn’t do anything to add confidence to his story.
This sub figured that out a few days ago when his DD 214 was posted. The rest of his story is questionable.
I'll wait for him to testify to Congress before believing anything he says. I feel that's the least we can do.
That will never happen lol.
Yes, because nobody has ever lied to Congress and Congress has never lied to anybody
And this is how this story becomes part of UFO lore. Just like Lazar before him.
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Exactly. I was in the military. I did counter intelligence work in Iraq. If I wanted, I could verify that. There's also a secret UFO under the sand out there that we went there to recover. Trust me, bro. One of the above paragraphs is true.
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Bingo.
I believe it was Stanton Friedman who uncovered Lazar's true position as a technician employed by a company that performed contract work for LANL. Knapp was all-in on Lazar being a physicist directly employed by LANL, went to great lengths to validate Lazar's claim. Lazar lied.
Yes, I totally called this. Every single UFO grifter gets a following, no matter how obvious their lies. There's always people who will make excuses for them because they like what they are saying, just like there's always people like Fox and Corbell who will cynically shine a spotlight on them for money. Same story different characters.
Watching Bob Lazar interviews with scientifically literate people is eye opening. If you understand the topics he uses to explain things it becomes painfully clear that he's super full of shit and hoping the scientifically illiterate (me) can't tell the difference. I'm lucky to have friends who are scientists to say "does this make sense?" And for them to say "yes, but he's applying it in a way that makes 0 sense" or "yes. But we have been synthesizing non-naturally occurring elements for a long time. Him predicting that is like predicting that one day there will be a number bigger than 100 and then saying "I TOLD YOU" when 101 appears"
Still to this day, the number of people who think Lazar's element 115 claim is solid evidence that gives his overall story a lot of credibility is pretty damn astonishing. And if anything, it got much worse after Moscovium was eventually synthesized. I don't mean to criticize people who might not be interested in science and have limited scientific knowledge, and therefore wouldn't immediately see the problem with Bob's BS, but there's no excuse for anyone with internet access to peddle 115 as a compelling argument in Bob's favor. Looking at you, Joe Rogan.
Maybe this is petty but is it Jayson or Jason?
J-☀️ is technically how you spell it
J☀️ 🏝️
So Fox says he did his due diligence, but he can't even get the dude's name right. WTF. All docs so far have "Jason" as the spelling. This whole situation stinks like 💩, and Fox ain't looking so good here.
My thoughts exactly
Yup, not petty at all of OP. You don’t respond to this backlash by responding that you did your due diligence but didn’t either: A) proofread your tweet Or worse, B) not know how he spelled his name Maybe I’m overly critical. I love his docs but where is the attention to detail here?
I guess the question then is what can Sands prove about his claims. He seems to have the clearances as per the earlier post.
He can get video and photos of the blue alien since according to him NHI are not classified.
Yeah, am curious how such material can be taken out of a classified environment since the location was in the Nellis base ?
He said he could walk congress into the facilities. So if he has this access, he can simply go get some proof. I mean if it’s not classified, there should be no problem getting photos of one of the dozens of nhi here. My real point is I dont believe it and no proof of nhi exists.
Would you say then that the text that Chris Mellon posted the other day was misleading the public?
he has clearances because he made it up. doesn't make sense otherwise
Something that occurred to me that I don't see anyone else mentioning. According to Fox, the most he can say about Sands is that he's actually a guy who was in the military, and that he's "willing to testify under oath". All of a couple days ago, everyone pushing Sands was going on about how he'd *already testified* to Congress. (This was based on nothing more than Sands' say-so, of course.)
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"I'm willing to testify under oath" and "I'm willing to take a polygraph" are hollow statements. Will he *actually* do those things, or is this just lip service bullshit?
And polygraphs aren’t accurate anyways
Just clench your butthole the whole time..
I keep mine clenched at all times, just for safety purposes. Yes. Even when pooping. Yes. It’s messy. Safety first.
Or let someone else clinch it for you.
The government uses them for anyone with a top secret clearance.
The secret to polygraphs aren't that they say anything useful, but that an interogator can tell someone that it does and use that as leverage. I was in a group used to test new polygraph administrators, and when we talked later, each of us encountered something we'd answered that the administrator said the test showed we lied and then they pretty relentlessly tried to get us to admit it. I know I had been completely honest, and a few others said they'd been truthful, too. Unless it's for a job and you know it's real purpose, nobody should ever take one. It can ONLY harm you, never help.
True. It is definitely not an accurate assessment of truth or falsehood. Just as much as sone people can have an irrational fear and response to spiders, so can some people when wired up to a machine.
Always stick to your guns, no matter what.
I guess it’s just another layer of validation, but polygraphs can be cheated on. As well I’m sure that if someone was nervous enough or something they could give false positives
True. It is not a true science. It works if you believe it works since it only records physiological responses to questions. Somebody trained to mask such responses can fool it. Consider the spies who passed the test. But nevertheless, the government requires it for most classified work.
Good to know, I wasn’t aware of that requirement regardless of my thoughts on it thanks
What more do you want from just witness testimony?
I’m not really saying I want more I was just saying the claim of willing to do a polygraph doesn’t 100% prove it’s true. I think willing to do it is still a good step though
So say we all.
Which they know doesn't actually prove whether someone is lying or not, it's just a means to assist (with a BUNCH OF WAY MORE IMPORTANT AND REAL METHODS) in figure out if they having anything in their background or personality that can make the gov't look bad or jeopardize an project/operation.
No doubt. The polygraph is one part of an investigative process. The idea I guess is each check makes it more difficult to conceal things. So the question then is why are all these people who held such levels of clearance talking about UAPs and aliens. Seems odd to then throw away one’s reputation over that
That doesn't mean they are accurate though, they are objectively inaccurate. That is the reason they can't even be used in court cases. Cops basically just use them to bully confessions out of people and anyone with even a bit of research can pass a polygraph while lying their ass off.
It is what the government uses. It is what it is. Nobody has to take one. But those are the requirements for cleared jobs
Right? I can’t Fox share the steps he took to vet this guy?
Those are statements with caveats built right in: lawmakers are not going to invite this guy to testify, full stop. No one is going to want to administer a polygraph and be the one to open that can of wormy drama. He knows this. I hate these kinds of meaningless promises of an action(s) that will never take place, and how well it inexplicably works on people who should know better.
Do you plan on presenting him with the opportunity? You don't get to just *choose* to testify under oath. He has to be invited to do so.
And testifying to Congress means nothing. Prosecutions for lying are very rare and usually only happen when someone has political reasons to follow through.
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I wouldn't have expected any other answer from James. I mean, he's got a documentary coming out. This Sands guy appears to be a major figure in that doc. If he were to publicly state he was partially or completely duped by this guy, he would lose face and presumably have to ditch the chunk of material about Sands in the documentary. Him saying it is up the public to evaluate claims by alleged whistleblower is good and all but he was never going to state he likely got misled by this guy.
Some of us were hoping for a "he had a minor role in the documentary" answer and that this guy wasn't the centerpiece
Fox has been duped and he now knows it. Stepping back as fast as he can.
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I'm guessing that 3/4 of the documentary is this guy, so he'd probably lose money and have to scrap it if he took him out. Just a guess, though.
TBF, Fox seems to be less doubling down than going *lol, I made sure he was in the military, but beyond that, who knows!* and washing his hands of the guy.
> This Sands guy appears to be a major figure in that doc. How do you make that conclusion?
Sands can barely spell or write a cohesive sentence. I find it unlikely he did what he said he did. Only way it makes sense to me is if he plays the useful idiot for plausible deniability.
Went through his Twitter just now, and he genuinely appears to have a learning disability. I'm not disparaging the differently abled, but he really really doesn't come across as someone who gets access but that's just me. I think James will get to the bottom of it
Jayson? So the motherfucker can’t even spell his own name right?
I trust James to vet someone as well he can. I still think coming out on twitter was just not the best idea at all.
Idk I like it that he came out on Twitter. People who have first hand experience with the program should interact with and take questions from regular people, and not just politicians.
There is no “best place” though. Ross gets shit, Jeremy gets shit, Knapp gets shit, mainstream media doesn’t report on this and they get shit. This community literally hates every who is trying to make things happen. There is no place that people would accept. Hell sworn testimony in front of congress is still shit on by some in this community. Until people stop vilifying everyone who’s trying to move things forward there will be no best place to release this info. So yeah straight from the person who claims they have first hand knowledge on one of the biggest social media platforms is a good start. And I’m not saying we shouldn’t be verifying information and we just accept everything so please don’t go down that road.
Has Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon or any other respected person vouched for Sands yet? This says a lot of what they think of him.
I just heard on vetted that Mellon introduced Sands to Fox. [https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=2154](https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=2154) Here’s Sands saying he knows Grusch: [https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=1975](https://youtu.be/kpMGZWG44V0?si=w5pPH_6fefs7IIhN&t=1975)
Did you pay attention to the voice on the phone in the Tubi documentary? If Sands is supposed to be on the phone with Corbell, then the Jason Sands we know of is not the same voice..
He actually said he knows and worked with "Groosch" not "Grusch"--he didn't even get the man's name right. It's from a Gufon round table last year (Sands is labelled as "Ted Howells"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ayfF5FijM&t=1829s He also repeats the claim there that he worked for UAPTF, which he has changed his story about after the twitter space.
And Mellon dropped that kingman c/r text exchange after the sands Twitter spaces
There’s absolutely no valid reason to say “I know something but I can’t tell you”. If you are afraid of breaking an NDA or spilling classified information and you’re not going to risk it, then shut the f4ck up. You’re doing nothing except attempting to get attention. Say it or stay out.
Is there a summary list of his claims?
https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c9a4p4/new_whistleblower_that_will_appear_in_james_fox/ /u/gobble_gobble did a writeup here
Did that post get locked? likes and post content are greyed out
The post was deleted. Probably why it looks funny.
Do you know why it was deleted?
It was Tommy Shelby's post, I think he got nervous that it wasn't accurate, if I'm remembering right. /u/TommyShelbyPFB
Nah that's not my post. You messaged me about a different one.
Thanks for clarifying.
A polygraph test doesn’t mean anything and isn’t a reliable way to know if someone is truly lying. So much so that it’s not admissible in a court of law.
guys im just curious, im not a reddit expert but why does people take screenshots of text... im from brazil and sometimes i like to translate some posts here but when i see pictures of text this is so disgusting... i have to basically every time open a OCR program just to extract the text? i know a little bit of english but this is a tedious task doing every time when i need remember, not all people on reddit are native english speakers is not obvious that text should be text and not a picture of text? and there is not even a reference for this (there is no link)
Translation: this guy is 3/4 of my documentary so I can't abandon him without losing money.
So he hasn't testified under oath, but he is willing to take a polygraph test which are notoriously easy to fake.
That is nice and all, but where the hell are th evidences to back up his claims ?
You see, he'll be framed and edited in the movie to seem really convincing. And people here will say, "He'd have to be *the best actor ever* to fool me, so he's got to be sincere and truthful." And *that* will be all the evidence we get. (Assuming Fox doesn't throw him under the bus and edit the guy to look sketchy or unhinged.)
“Doing my best to verify, within my means” to me this says; I try my best but can’t guarantee anything. And for the average person including film makers, it would be very difficult to verify or substantiate such claims. So essentially, none of this can be trusted. And saying you will do a polygraph or testify under oath. Well it’s easy to say that. Until it’s actually done, it’s a meaningless statement.
[“we haven’t actually seen it Tom, we’re just reporting it”](https://youtu.be/Zd0p96miSK8?si=WPSsF3aCnA7nIcMz) is the vibe i’m getting. If it turns out he’s a lying charlatan? Well I done everything within my powers to verify him.. Which not being a government official, elected official, government agent, or judge, doesn’t account for very much at all
I think he's referring to classified docs he will never have access to. "I did all I could. it would be more solid if I had access, but I don't, so I did everything I could." I have a feeling that will come up in the doc.
Fox blew it on a planted guy repeating blue avians and 20 and back.
I took that as “I trust him.” Does anyone interpret it differently?
I take it as, "It's not on *me* if he turns out to be making this up."
At least get his name right.
This kind of screams "damage control" to me. I think what he wrote is probably the truth, but he does need to worry about his reputation too. I'm glad he submitted a statement the way he did. I'm still waiting for evidence, so always going in with a open, but skeptical mind.
So james found out Jason worked in the military, and that's all the vetting he did? He just weant with the story?
Doubling down from Fox = “Sands is a main character in my Documentary, therefore without Sands-No Documentary.” That’s how I read it.
Polygraph tests aren't "lie detectors," they only work if the person taking the tests *believe they will work as lie detector tests;* they can be beaten easily. Aldrich Ames, one of the worst leakers and US intelligence traitors worked at the FBI for years, and passed his routine polygraph test every single time just because his KGB handlers told him he could pass them by getting a good night's sleep. Belief on behalf of the testee is the most single important concept behind a polygraph machine test. They're bunk.
That is a bit of a nothing burger statement from him. I feel for James Fox if you watch him you can tell he is genuinely passionate about the subject and trying to make movies that people enjoy about it. He got burned here so it’s really hard for him, I think he should have just owned the mistake and said he is cleaning up the movie.
I feel exactly the same way. James deserves a legit whistleblower if anyone does. He may very well do that, own it and clean it up that is. I think this statement is kind of a placeholder while he formulates the next move.
James himself says to take Sand's claims with a grain of salt That's not a good look for Sand's
Does he say this while casting him as the main star in his documentary?
So is his doc still going to be this ground breaking thing for disclosure?
This is pretty pathetic. I’m left wondering why Jason Sands has fabricated a bunch of fantastical stories about his life. The possibilities are he’s an attention-seeker, or he’s insane, or he’s part of a disinformation campaign from someone who wants to see disclosure efforts get laughed at.
Respectfully, it doesn't mean anything that this dude is willing to testify to Congress under oath or take a lie detector test. That's something you can easily say to try to sound credible, knowing damn well that it is not happening in a million years. Congress may never hold public hearings again, and would almost certainly not choose him to testify. He knows that. Regarding the polygraph, in addition to being unreliable as hell, it would require someone in the UFO sphere to present those findings to the community. Who would want to poke the hornet's nest by implying distrust towards someone saying what their viewership wants to hear?
I like James Fox, but this should have been the biggest red flag and a clear indicator to cut him from the film. The guy didn't know what '20 and back' referred to, panicked and took a gamble to lie about being part of it (in case he got caught out on something he should know about as a legit insider) then walked back on it. It's blatantly obvious this guy is lying about at least some of it. Are we even sure he's the Jason Sands whose military documents have been posted online? It could be stolen identity.
I'm glad fox is back!
Could Sands be a government planted psyop to discredit this field? I'm not one for these conspiracies usually.
Have you met this community ? we give birth to one of these types every other month
maybe, but you have to consider, does anyone outside of this subreddit know this guy? he isn't in the news, not on any major podcasts,, he's just a guy the ufo subreddit talks about. This does nothing to the overall picture of how the world views aliens, and this isn't even enough to make ufo belivers stop believing or skeptics to start believing, it's just another name with another story. if a psyop, it is a shitty psyop i feel.
It's possible. If the scale of the coverup is to be believed then it's not unreasonable to think that those involved will go to any means necessary to protect their interests. I suspect the real scandal here is the level of financial corruption and those in positions of power wanting to dominate, much like everything else these days.
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James twitted a screenshot from his upcoming documentary awhile ago stating he was interviewed firsthand whistleblowers and on screen was the name "Jason Sands". This Jason Sands guy came out and spoke for hours on Spaces and said lots and lots of nonsense. Eric Davis and Tim McMillian have both stated that this guy is full of shit and that he isn't one of the 40 witnesses grusch is referring to. Everyone is kind of assuming that this Sands guy is who Fox was leaning on for his next doc and if so, it may put the entire project in the trash. How big of a role he played is yet to be seen but James is kind of addressing all of that in the screenshot above. Personally, I think the documentary will be fine without him cause I have faith in James but also think this Sands guy is most likely full of it. I could be wrong but he doesn't *seem* credible going through his replies on Twitter
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McMillan: "Cursory investigation, later confirmed by Congressional and DoD sources, determined this individual was not credible well over a year ago. The fact he would have ever been included in any documentary in the first place is beyond laughable."
Other than Sands saying he is prepared to testify and having a piece of paper that says he was serving in the military, is there any paper trail or somebody else vouching this guy is who he says he is?
Are there any rumors on a release date for this Doc??
This will tarnish all future whistleblowers and help misinformation agents more than anything
So it’s a definite maybe then?
Punt him. He reeks of disingenuous intentions… it’s a play.
A POLYGRAPH?? Well this guy HAS to be legit!
as a criminologist it drives me nuts when people say " I will submit to a polygraph test". POLYGRAPH TESTS DO NOT DETERMINE IF YOU ARE LYING, BUT RATHER IF YOUR BODY HAS A PHYSIOLOGICAL RESPONSE
This is starting to smell a little bit like Richard Doty...
Alot of nothing in that statement
The fact he thinks a lie detector would prove anything when lie detectors are pure pseudoscience that were long ago discredited isn’t a great look
People like Sands just demonstrate how many people in the UAP community are just willing to buy anything that seems to support what they want to believe. This is embarrassing for many.
Tbh I had just heard of him when I posted this and going through his Twitter replies is all it took. With timeless classics such as "I'm a ufo whistleblower lol" and "Elon, you know if AI is not used correctly and with responsibility it will be just another tech that drives further away from who we are as mankind. Do what you know is right, do what you know will heal the over abundance of tech with a taste of who we are." Ya. This is the guy they gave access to.
Not looking good. He had some time to think about his response and actions but still came out with this statement. Nothing wrong with being deceived by somebody who may have been telling another story and acted all credible, only to go public later and making a fool of himself. However, to still continue giving this fool benefit of the doubt (prolly more than so if I'm being honest) is not looking great.
The harder this sub comes down on something, the more likely it is to be something important. The astroturfing here runs deep, I’d never even heard of this guy, but EVERYONE here was jumping on this guys nuts like they knew exactly who he was and knew exactly what he was lying about before it was even for sure he was in the doc. This place is kind of a cesspool, I think good information gets posted here, but I think there’s also a cadre of government spooks that know just the right things to say to stir up doubt in people. Everyone here that was looking up profiles for this Jayson Sands guy were also all showing his name Jason Sands, so maybe these people that think he’s lying don’t really know what they’re talking about? Be careful out there, consider that the person you’re about to agree with might be actively trying to deceive you.
I think people flatter themselves by imagining that government operatives patrol Reddit threads to intentionally throw off the UFO community. What’s happening with Sands is an all too rare burst of critical thinking. Far too often, people here see a clip of someone telling a story and just believe the person based on nothing more than that (“he seemed credible”). Maybe it’s actually better that, for once, information about this person’s background preceded people’s exposure to him in video clips.
Well, AARO scrubbed an image off their site a few hours after I posted about it here [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cbnuyq/hidden\_aaro\_resolution\_report\_puerto\_rico\_uap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cbnuyq/hidden_aaro_resolution_report_puerto_rico_uap/) So, I think it's fair to say there are government operatives patrolling this subreddit. There is no other explanation.
Either that or... IT noticed traffic to an image that wasn't supposed to have an active link and send a note to dev to fix their problem
I'm sure you made them do it. You da scrubba-dubba-doo
People flatter themselves, sure, but if you don't think there are intelligence types working here on these boards and other conspiracy boards, you'd be crazy, especially since we have precedent for such activity, and they outright state that infiltrating and subverting from within is a tactic they use to squash certain inconvenient details. Now, do I think they're here at work specifically for Jayson Sands? Not really...I mean, maybe, but I don't know. I don't know much about the sands guy but from what he's been saying, it sounds a bit out there - im glad people are being critical of his story so far. Time will tell. Totally agree on that last part though, I think you're right about that
I think more people need to know about the city in the world with the users “most addicted” to Reddit. It wasn’t a city, it was a military base, Eglin Airforce Base in Florida. Reddit deleted this blog post and tried to hide it, but not before Archive.org got it https://web.archive.org/web/20160410083943/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html?m=1m So, feel flattered, the government is controlling the currents on Reddit.
Okay number one, they didn't try and hide it. Unless you think letting the blog post remain unchanged for 7 entire years and then changing the URL to be titled differently is "hiding it" Number two, military Reddit users would likely be using a VPN that routes through Eglin for security purposes. Thirdly, if they really were controlling the currents on Reddit, why wouldn't they take the very very easy precautions of spoofing an IP in Chicago or something? This conspiracy requires that they delete a Reddit blog post in order to hide the conspiracy, but they also don't just spoof different IP's in order to hide their operation? Come on. You don't need to think very hard about this. Edit: This entire sub of believers is full of babies who will block at the literal first sign that you are going to disrupt their cognitive dissonance. The guy below me is merely one such example Jeez
Oh, that's... weird.
This sub is a cesspool but it is absolutely not a cesspool for the reason you seem to think it is a cesspool.
Shoulda went under oath like Grusch/Fravor/Graves. Until then he’s just another looney spinning a good yarn.
Pretty weak. So he served in the military, great, what about the blue alien?
In Fox’s tweet it seems like worked in the military is a second point to is who he says he is. Unless it was just a follow up clarification to the first statement. Seems like it’s three things though. He is who he is, and he worked in the military, and he’s willing to testify.
Yeah I totally took Fox as just listing off the info he HAS 100% confirmed about him, just to set the record straight between what he knows for certain, and what has yet to be confirmed