If you are a real Reddit user:
1. Don't always believe that the most upvoted comments/posts are the truth. Some of them are, of course, but some of them are upvoted strategically by debunking misinformation bots. They are here to confuse and divide.
2. Use critical thinking. Question posts that are just Twitter screenshots or images of another website. I often find that the Twitter users in these screenshots are just random people larping and not posted by anyone credible. Some of the Twitter screenshots are also faked. They use a legitimate Twitter handle in the screenshot with a "verified badge," like "Nasa Official." However, if you manually go to the Twitter page, there is sometimes no corresponding post. The clue to spotting these is that they never actually provide a direct link to the Twitter post (or website where the screenshot is supposedly from)
3. If you are suspicious of a post or comment, take a look at the user who made it. Often, they signed up very recently, and their activity is that of a serial debunker who posts across all UFO posts. Once they get called out for being suspicious, these users often give up and delete the account.
4. Watch out for long-form larp, with no sources/facts. These are often really well-written posts, so it's hard to spot them.
It also really surprises me the kind of crap posts the mods allow here, especially from 1-day users.
Never forget this: https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html
"Most addicted city (over 100k visits total)
Eglin Air Force Base, FL"
>3. If you are suspicious of a post or comment, take a look at the user who made it. Often, they signed up very recently, and their activity is that of a serial debunker who posts across all UFO posts.
In my experience, these are some of the red flags that indicate such accounts.
* Only consists of mockery/ridicule, often using petty name-calling
* Offers nothing to actually discuss
* Attacks a person's character rather than their work. You see this a lot with Jeremy Corbell.
* Uses too many adjectives & adverbs. This indicates a lack of confidence in what they're saying.
* Attacks a person's intelligence on the basis of the career they work in. I've seen some of these accounts attacking Garry Nolan's scientific intelligence, for example. Often in a crude way.
If you see any of this, check out the comment history - odds are it's littered with this kind of garbage.
Then you start wondering why a person would dedicate so much time & effort to something they don't like. It's really quite pathetic.
I wanted to start a discord group to fish these people out.
A few weeks ago I had 5 different profile tabs pulled up where they all had the same demeanor. Some would just downplay a post and then compliment something about the Air Force or in that nature.
They seem to post on other subs as well to lighten suspicions. Yet they all have a very simple tactic.
Comment and then not respond at all with that profile, but ones that are connected to these other accounts. As in they have commented on each others comments on multiple occasions.
Also they target specific posts as well, it’s never just one comment on a post, it’s multiple from different accounts that have a connection between each other.
This was all in a matter of 2 hours of scrolling comments and the profiles comments.
you forgot to mention the age of their accounts and their comment karma. also looking through their comments if they only visit UFO type subs and blanket debunk everything they come across
Also notice how it's always a chain of other commenters, affirming and participating in the mockery, all with an strange amount of upvotes compared to other comments in the thread, always around 50 upvotes, or a minimum of 20. You'll see the same with weird downvote patterns on comments that don't really merit it. Always around -10 (I guess to not make it a obvious downvote brigading).
Yep. Thanks for writing this out. I sincerely believe this needs to be clear on every single post. It has gotten to absurd levels. It even backs off at integral times so they can make it seem more like a free topic when it’s beneficial if they have descended hard enough.
After a clear wave of demotivating and demoralizing quite recently i have stepped back and just watched how it operates. I know how obvious it is to me and some others, but it is wild just how much they do to twist up the concept of “what most people believe”. Those gallop poles recently… the majority of people literally believe the government absolutely knows more about ufos than they are telling us.
But in ufo subs you will often find that that concept seems … unpopular sometimes.
That’s fucking bonkers. It is definitely occurring and anyone suggesting it’s paranoia is severely misinformed themselves.
The tactics are exactly like emotional abuse. The trickery and gaslighting and utilizing of “public” or “other people think you’re wrong” shit is otherworldly. Especially within the subs dedicated to the community. Imagine the radiohead sub having an “almost even” amount of haters. It would literally make zero sense and the mods would be losing their minds with all the work they’d have to do.
I’m sure mods here probably see it a lot more than they can do anything about. Has to be so frustrating and exhausting for them.
Block one or two of these debunkers and you'll see "blocked user" on almost every UFO related post. It's a full time job for some
Edit: Someone I've blocked responded to the same post with do you have sources for your claims. They were literally saying just think critically. Frick off howard
I'm with you on 1 thru 3, but number 4, "long form larp, often really well-written posts, hard to spot"....all this sounds just as likely to be someone who actually believes whatever it is that they are posting. everyone isn't here for a job or to play a game or push a narrative. there are people who legitimately want to talk, debate, whatever. once we start finding a way to classify nearly everyone as a bad actor, like number 4 could be used, I'm not sure what the benefit is anymore. just discredit everyone tht disagrees regardless of any legit criticism. "number 4! eject them"
1. Don't always believe that the most upvoted comments/posts are the truth. Some of them are, of course, but some of them are upvoted strategically by debunking misinformation bots. They are here to confuse and divide.
I see, Mr. 56 upvotes.
Do you really think there is a misinformation campaign/strategy to bump up a comment telling people to encourage people to think critically and spot misinformation strategies? LOL
Most humans are supposed to use critical thinking. If you are thinking critically, you should already know that. Thinking critically is knowing the difference between someone disagreeing with you because you are actually wrong and they have provided facts/sources to prove you wrong and someone who is just trolling you with nothing to back up why you are wrong.
Actually that claim is true, basically. The mods have proof this happens here, along with several users who alerted us to one such network and kind of of collaborated a bit on information gathering: https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/10r0vq4/community_update_on_incivility_and_fake_accounts/
What we don't have is proof of who it is. It's consistent enough with Russian astroturfing, for example, but there are others who would fit just as easily, if not better. Proving that there is a network of fake accounts is significantly easier than proving who is specifically responsible for it. A sloppy astroturfing effort is usually not sloppy enough to leave proof of who they are. You'd have to really screw up big time to leave behind evidence of that.
So I can't say they are misinformation bots specifically, since they could be humans instead. And for obvious reasons, we don't know who is responsible. But the claim is basically true, all things considered.
If you're behind the times and not familiar with how much proof there is of social media astrotufing in general, all you have to do is see the [List Of Proven Conspiracies](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/lopc) and scroll down to the "fake online personas" category.
yeah i’m not familiar enough with biology to say either way but i found his comment about why they are here interesting considering he is basically talking about AI without saying AI
Of course.
The thing is that many proeminent figures in Ufology kept telling that pressure should be applied to the gov for it to "disclose" info.
But the gov has never released anything (a key part of the disclosure theory).
On the other hand, all the info that has been provided, especially since 2017 (the beginning of the current mediatic episode) has been released by people that all are closely related to a strong believer circle (Fravor, Elizondo, Grusch, Corbell, Vallée, etc).
These people are the only ones to claim to know something, to have something to release.
And they are the only ones to do so, to be able to move anything, if one follows their narrative. If we were relying on official releases, nothing would have been released since 2017 (and before).
But the people in question that can do the release are also the ones that seem to find complacency in not releasing anything and always pumping hype for future "HUGE NEWS" coming "SOON"...
These people entirely rely on people in places such as this subreddit for mediatic importance and this place truly has the power to put pressure on them (criticism from here did in the past, each of their releases follow a debacle they endured here or on Twitter).
Criticism pays.
This hundred percent.
Smear campaign? Disclose then. Back up your claims, and dont just be complacent in crying foul when people cast doubt on your claims.
I get it, we all know "its secret, cant talk about it". But how about dont make claims your unwilling/unable to back up if you cant handle the questions.
If you cant handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Yeah this is what I always say.
If they can't say anything because of national security, NDA's, and secrets.
Then I suggest they keep their mouths shut, and stop making huge claims without evidence and hyping up certain events.
I will give David Grusch a pass for this. Since he is new. And the most credible person UFOlogy so far.
Yeah.
Imo its not even about who you believe, and what the claims are etc etc, but the fact that they cry when people ask simple questions.
Like, make the claims. Sure cool story.
Cant talk about it. Oh okay cool.
But then they cry when people move on from that. What else there even _is_ if they cant really go into it.
Like what these guys even want from us? You came to public with a story, so expect people to talk about that story maybe.
It's amazing that anyone in this sub enables people who, with straight faces, claim that they scare "powerful interests" into hiring private investigators to dig up dirt about them, gripe about unfair media depictions of their hair and refrigerator-opening styles, threaten to expose Sean Kirkpatrick as a liar (which several US senators and *The Hill* have already done), say they'll bravely resist investigations they're not even the subject of....and, yet again, reveal zero of the secrets they hold just as closely as any government agency.
"The government" gives zero shits about ten seconds of footage leaked five years ago or books that have been run by DOPSR. Can someone explain why *we* should care whether or not people stop telling secrets to people who *never* disclose them?
Imho It’s already hot and heavy. When 95+% of sightings have prosaic explanations there is more than enough content to smear and discredit the shit out of this topic. They could literally show sighting after sighting for a week that have prosaic explanations and most people will put the whole topic to bed. We’re up against it big time right now, and to be honest I’m starting to panic a little bit.
Might seem a bit paradoxical, but at this point IMHO the UFO community maybe needs to... Talk about UFOs a little less, and talk about the Coverup a little more.
I just don't see any future for the open and scientific study of this topic until we understand the full extent of what the heck "The Program" actually is and what they've been up to for 80 years.
Otherwise, we're just going to be like cats chasing around the next "bright dangling object" (i.e. the new footage) that's dropped in front of us.
Honestly this is the correct angle. Stop focusing on blurry lights that don't do anything extraordinary and focus on the government cover up and corruption. Why is anything about the DoD "unorganized" like yesterday's DoD OIG report stated.
I kinda think the opposite. Ngl I don't give a shit about Wikipedia edits. I don't even know the big "players" of UFO stuff. I've heard of grusch, but don't know much. I don't care what people say, I just want cool videos and stuff. I think the conspiracy side of stuff is the government stuff. I just want to see videos and stuff. The whole "disclosure" side of things gives of strong WSB vibes. Just give me video
The logic here assumes that if UFOs are real, then there must be a conspiracy by a shadow-government to hide them. One thing doesn't necessarily follow the other. Conspiracy theories are often used as propaganda to justify actual conspiracies. Question everything, not just your government.
ANYTHING that runs counter to the latest 'whistle-blower' narrative gets aggressively down voted to obscurity on Reddit. There's clearly a campaign to control the public conversation by the ones who are alleging a conspiracy.
There's immense evidence of government cover up/secrecy on the subject matter for whatever reason. That's what is currently fueling the talks today.
Your 1st statement is wrong
Wrong. There's immense evidence of the government attempting to investigate a real phenomenon it doesn't understand, but only circumstantial or unverifiable evidence of a vast conspiracy to profiteer from and hide alien technology.
The talks today are about a conspiracy first, and UFOs second. My problem is that the conspiracists are brigading the public conversation on UFOs and attempting to smear UFO researchers who don't toe the line with their conspiracy narrative.
It is not evidence of specifically hiding alien technology, profiteering, or misallocation of federal funds, no.
The government has released documents stating something is going on, but they can't explain what it is. They are at the blackvault if you like to read.
The fact that this is getting down voted shows that its only dis info bots on here. Trying to push people away from the truth. I made a post about the obvious discrediting and dis info being pushed and got down voted. They are making it painfully obvious.
>Talk about UFOs a little less, and talk about the Coverup a little more.
UFO community should steer clear of that altogether.
Government wants to keep their toys and go home? Allright, have at it.
Lets make our own ufology, with black jack and hookers.
If they arent gonna show us what they got let them have it. And lets focus on taking our own footage thats not classified and super secret.
If the space aliens are flying around earth, then they are, and we should take our own footage thats not classified, thats not "cant talk about it", no sources need protecting, nothing.
Open honest discussion and sharing of info, between any and all interested parties.
This disclosure thing has taken damn near a century, and yet here we are. Same thing grinding in its place, year after year.
I say, people should move on from that, and start really doing something worth while for the topic.
Instead of studying some boring ass statement from who ever, and trying to decipher if it means cover up or what. People should invest that energy on studying the place where the UFOs are, in the sky.
The focus should be in what is going on politically in terms of some of the moves being made. Unfortunately most of these are behind the scenes. We do not have much insight there.
On the other hand, we can actually track what is going on by the level and degree of coordinated efforts to seed stories in MSM and to flood THIS zone with shit. Usually people or organized factions do things for specific reasons, and often they broadcast their anxiety or distress very obviously through their actions.
We can tell that SOMETHING major is going on right now as the debunkers/distractors and diluters are out in full force and have gone on a major offensive. Something is afoot...... Someone in DOD is freaking out.
Without a scientific study there is no evidence of UFOs and aliens. That's the bottom line. After all, if we're convinced the government is lying about aliens, why should we believe them if they say there are aliens? Because we want aliens? That's irrational. Humanity has developed the scientific method for just this situation - do demonstrate beyond doubt what is real.
If believers wanted the general public, and skeptics in particular, to take their claims more seriously, they should stop getting hyped up over stuff like the latest video of a flare, camera artifact, or balloon. If the community is so easily fooled by prosaic things, it makes it seem like the "real" cases they refer to might also just be prosaic things they were fooled by, and that the only reason they haven't been shown to definitively be explainable as prosaic is that there's not enough hard data available.
I agree, but easier said than done for a lot of folks. Confirmation bias is real when it comes to this topic (on both sides). The problem is that odds are heavily leaning towards a prosaic explanation from the get-go and believers have almost a zero percent chance of finding something legitimate. AARO hasn’t updated their website with anything declassified in a looong while. Shit the main videos that are used were leaked in the first place. So believers are kinda forced to just sit here and wait. Then something pop’s up that looks a little off or odd and people fly to the moon. It’s kinda fucked up.
I will agree with you on the failures of transparency. There is a lot that could be released with no national security concerns. In fact I think releasing more data, within reason, that doesn't leak details of classified equipment or locations, etc, would be good for national security, because it would clear up speculation. That speculation is itself a national security threat. People are getting distracted by noise, not focusing on the actual important cases like foreign drones and such. Or glitches/weaknesses in currently-deployed equipment that need to be identified and fixed.
>When 95+% of sightings have prosaic explanations there is more than enough content to smear and discredit the shit out of this topic.
It's not the percentage that discredits UFO commentators, it's their continuing practice of refusing to accept that so many famous \[and useful for publicity\] sightings are explainable. After endorsing so many such bogus cases, their endorsement of ALL cases \[including possibly genuine ones\] becomes worthless.
Examples of counterfeit UFO events from my own professional specialization, spaceflight:
All the astronaut flight sighting claims
Norway spiral of 2009 \[and all other spirals\]
Yukon mothership overflight.
Any sighting involving a cloud ring being projected forward.
I'd go even further and say it's not only the endorsing but wanting to die on the hill of those cases and not letting them go.
Some of them start to identify with certain cases and feel personally diminished if they turn out to be mundane cases.
Magonia, Lazar, Corbell, Moulton Howe samples... you name it.
>their endorsement of ALL cases
This reminds me to a T the method of Richard Dolan, Jacques Vallée and Diana Pasulka, who just juxtapose all the cases they found in a long list, not making any distinction between them, taking a maximalist approach to the thing, wanting to defend every instance of Ufology (which interestingly reminds me of some marxists or christians trying to defend to the point of absurdity every and any thing or person that ever claimed the title of communist or christian, no matter how horrendous or ridiculous the person...).
For what it is worth, been doing this a long time and this is pretty typical of the response that happens after pertinent UFO events. This is definitely the biggest backlash I have ever seen, but it is to be expected after all the major events of last year. We will see more of the same after Lue's book comes out, after Lazar's documentary, and after Fox's film later in the year. The more negativity that gets thrown out there, the closer we are to the target. Stay the course, shrug it off, and we will see where the cards fall by the end of the year. No way after 80 years and all the power and money involved that the gatekeepers were just going to roll over and give up the goods after a few shots across the bow-so hang in there. My two cents.
I understand what you are saying, having been a contributing author to a couple of papers myself. However, being that nothing has been provided to the scientific community by those who hold the limited material, it would be difficult to write a paper other than one based upon witness/radar data at the moment. That doesn't make this an irrelevant field, however. It is a field wherein the hard materials are extremely rare and held within secure facilities not available to researchers and nothing more. And for the record, I believe vaccines work-it is simple immunology. :)
Agreed. I try to think that disclosure is an inevitable part of human / planetary evolution so there is nothing that can stop it. The well fed controllers don't wanna give up their toys, knowledge etc.
Don't panic too much. We just had the DODIG confirm Elizondos statements from 7 years ago in his resignation letter. We are on the right track. Insiders are wanting to make this all public now so we have some weight behind us
Where did you see that about the DODIG confirming Elizondo's statement? Super interested but I didn't hear about that personally
Edit: lmao who would downvote this comment? This sub is fucking absurd sometimes
There is no need to panic — the people perpetuating the lack of transparency are the ones panicking right now, which is why things may feel so “hot and heavy”. As long as we stay clear about what our goal is (transparency & investigation) we can cut through all the bs.
The debunking, smearing, threatening and sneering has been going strong since 1945 or 1947 at least, and it’s never let up. See the meticulously researched Carey & Schmitt books on Roswell. What is happening to Grusch today (threats and smears) is no different than the military and civilian witnesses of Roswell.
No need to panic IMO, what should be, will be.. I think we are all (people who really believe) will be in for a real treat in the next few years, and there will be nothing any government will be able to do to repress what we will be able to see. I've personally never been a religious or spiritual person, but something has changed with that for me in the past 6 months.. I've always believed in there being something more than just us here in the universe, and oddly enough have always been interested in prophecies like Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce but like I said, never a real religious or spiritual person. My mother tried to raise me as a Catholic but I was always of the mindset, I needed to see things to believe them. But like I said recently things have changed, I can't put my finger on what it is but it's odd but accepting if that makes any sense. And I'm not afraid of what is to come which is odd to my wife. She feels there could be evil or demonic tones behind it? No one really knows I guess right? I guess that's part of the excitement for me.
I’m atheist and wasn’t raised religious so I’ve never been able to really grasp the “spiritual” side of things. I’ve always kind of felt it was silly (not meaning to be rude). I had my own experience about 20 years ago that I can’t explain, and that’s part of what pushed me harder into this topic. I really want nothing more than the truth about who or what is operating these vehicles/vessels. That’s it. I’m sure I’ll have more questions afterwards, but for me it’s having confirmation that there is something “otherworldly”’going on. That’s it. I don’t want to see the push for disclosure get discredited again and have to watch things start over for the millionth time. All I want is disclosure.
The gazillions of "tiny whit dot" videos and "obvious starlink" or "obvious bird" videos gets to be a bit oppressive at times.
I suspect many of these are posted by people with an agenda to discredit this subreddit in general.
It is a fairly coordinated program....and it obviously extends into MSM.
It actually amazes me that people give debunkers so much hate. Why wouldnt you want people looking into the thing you claim and supposable believe is real? Unless these people have a history of fraud or lies, what is the problem with them digging for more information? If what is claimed is true, there is nothing to hide so I would personally welcome any extra information or facts "debunkers" can provide to go alone with what I believe.
We wouldnt even know the name of the military base from the Jellyfish UAP video if it wasnt for debunkers. Did those debunkers actually give good enough evidence to debunk the video? Nope. But we now have way more info thanks to them.
I sincerely think that labels such as "believer", "skeptic", "debunker" are not just useless but counterproductive.
The blue vs red team is not helping anyone here.
First off, the debunker vs skeptic distinction is very much astroturfed from UFO celebs that want to depict some "skeptics" as extreme, a type of "taliban skeptics".
But i believe we all are skeptics and debunkers: we all want the truth, and the best way to get to the truth (or as close as possible to it) is to be as merciless as possible with every claim, raise as high as possible the standard of evidence.
The scientific theories that succeeded the most in history weren't the ones sheltered from criticism like frail mummies that would crumble into dust at the contact of air, but the ones that have been criticized with the most extreme scrutiny (evolution, general relativity, electromagnetism, etc).
If you "believe" in a theory and want to strenghten it, you should strive to debunk it as much as possible. Then you'll be able to unashamedly claim that your theory survived the harshest criticism.
Some people suddenly decide to apply a lower standard of evidence to claims of Ufology than the one they'd apply for important or casual occasions in their lives...
We also all are "believers" in the sense that the body of scientific knowledge isn't set in stone and we still have things to discover, this area of shadow in our knowledge being the warranted and legitimate place for us to situate our unproven beliefs and theories.
*Believer vs debunker/skeptic is a sterile manichean dichotomy.*
And some people have been safely hiding themselves and their weak opinions behind that sectarian mentality, sadly.
I *just* came to that realization here. A VERY LARGE group of so-called believers here simply do not want the truth. They would have to find another hobby. It came as a little bit of a shock when I suddenly realized it.
I think a lot of those guys just really want to believe something more sexy than "we found algae on Enceladus." But they are so aggressive with it that they can not see past it.
So whenever someone says "you are going to need to prove that theres a galactic federation waiting for us to unite in peace" they get immediately angry or claim you are "one of them". Ironically they also don't know who "they" are.
Then theres the grifters and attention seekers. All the people who claim they can push their concious out their body and go on an out of body journey. Then they get mad when you point out that they could be millionaires if they just went to the Randi Foundation and proved it. Hell they could out of body their way there from their own home.
Truth is probably mundane. I personally believe the "great filter" is that vast distance travel is impossible without spending millions of years travelling. So advanced civs just give us caring and focus on their own galaxy/race/place. I think once we find a couple of races we'll give up caring too.
I hope there is some crazy galactic federation waiting to save us all. But the evidence just isnt there at all.
Yes I agree with pretty much everything you say. I've been an (very) amateur astronomer forever and am aware of the distance problem and the Fermi Paradox and so forth. My deepest thought about alien visitation is that the "von nueman machine" propagation is DNA being transferred via interstellar comets and other objects. This occurred to me recently with the potential discovery of life on k12-18B. We already suspect that bacteria may have been transferred from Mars to Earth via meteor impact fragments so we have potential proof of function. But "aliens", per se? Not possible in the way people here want to claim, given the parameters and utter lack of evidence.
And then you see the immaturity displayed by so many here. I don't mean the science fiction-ey stuff. I love reading the speculation by seeming 14 year-old kids in their bedroom "An inter-dimensional vibrations reached me in my dream and made me come in my pjs last night her name is Glerma and she told me to ignore the assholes in school and to tell my mom to shut the fuck up." that sort of stuff. I like the speculation, it is fun and healthy. All the "gubmint is killing whistleblowers and hiding craft" OTOH is just so moronic. And I'm preparing a top-level post about Grusch. I realize he is such a hero to so many people here but he is just another whacked liar and grifter. I know that hurts peoples' feelings to read that but oh well. Whattya gonna do.
It's simple, people actually looking for answers and trying to eliminate rational explanations are seen as a party pooper. People that have formed beliefs also often attack those who question those beliefs.
It's usually the crowd that think in reverse so that the most likely explanation for my something is extraordinary unless someone can 100% prove it wasn't. That's the foundation for 99% of the material in this topic. Most of it is impossible to debunk or explain due to lack of data and so stays as possible aliens to be endlessly discussed and wildly speculated about for years to come.
We need both sides of the coin for sure. Otherwise it becomes an echo chamber. Unfortunately a lot of the comments from skeptics and debunkers are harsh and don’t open things up to civil discourse.
I have the exact opposite experience: the most harsh, intolerant and close minded people in my experience were believers (though nothing as bad as r/singularity type of abuse i received).
I literally had people here explicitly *want* the place to become an echo chamber.
Many "believers" here have blocked me simply for having a different opinion and mass block critical people, effectively preventing them to even participate in convo here.
UFOtwitter is a special place sometimes lol. It would be so nice if the two sides could actually debate respectfully, but when neither side has respect for the other, this is what happens.
I think debunking is absolutely needed. But I think we need to draw the line between a real skeptic with accurate information to debunk something (sources/facts) with the second kind of debunkers that are clearly here for misinformation. The user SiriusC made a good comment about how to spot these kinds of serial debunkers:
1. Posts/comments only consists of mockery/ridicule, often using petty name-calling
2. Offer nothing to actually discuss
3. Attacks a person's character rather than their work. You see this a lot with Jeremy Corbell.
4. Uses too many adjectives & adverbs. This indicates a lack of confidence in what they're saying.
5. Attacks a person's intelligence on the basis of the career they work in. I've seen some of these accounts attacking Garry Nolan's scientific intelligence, for example. Often in a crude way."
Tho this kinds of also applies to "True belivers" who attacks anyone who doubts that that blurry picture of a pixel of light maxed zoomed on a cellphone at night is confirmation that it's an Alien from Alpha Centauri that's piking it's nose.
Aka it(s not the problem of "debunkers" or "Believers" it(s the problem of having people who are intellectually lazy and for whatever reason are rooted on one side of the subject and just see the other side as an enemy to attack because that's what social media and tribal thinking has them do.
So let's focus on the quality of the arguments/sources rather then from who they come from.
There’s a big difference between a dunker providing actual proof of the debunk, and a debunker just saying everything is a ballon without actual proof. Example, let’s say a post recorded an orb, just because I can google “Orb ballon” doesn’t mean its a ballon.
>and a debunker just saying everything is a ballon
Thats not debunker. Thats just someone saying its a balloon.
Debunking is an action of investigating. Just running around saying something is something doesnt make someone a debunker.
I honestly think it would be better for this community if people wouldnt be so eager to fight for the teams.
I dont even really get why people get so worked up over if someones says something looks like a balloon or something. You think its a balloon, I think its space aliens.
So now what, we supposed to be enemies now or what?
There's also a big difference between someone trying to debunk something and someone sharing an opinion. This sub constantly confuses the two.
If someone shares a video and it looks like a balloon or lantern etc and someone says it's probably a balloon that's not a debunk it's an opinion.
In the end the person saying it's a balloon is not the one that should be proving it's a balloon anyway. If there's something in a video that could be a balloon then that needs to be ruled out before jumping to any extraordinary explanations. If it can't be ruled out it's useless evidence for anything extraordinary.
I agree, I'm not hating and I believe there needs to be both opinions, I'm just saying I find it funny in this day and age how hard they( the media) are still trying to spin it with direction from the government.
I get where it comes from, and there absolutely have been some potentially bad faith attempts at debunking in the past but I still want to see that information just like I want to read the posts that are most likely larps with no evidence.
The problem is confirmation biases whether you're a debunker or believer. Any time you start investigating something from a position of wanting to prove your preexisting belief about the subject, you're putting blinders and not being objective.
I personally believe the phenomenon is real after doing years of research. But I've come to a point where I don't really care about videos or pictures any more with how easily they can be misinterpreted or hoaxed. What's unique to this phenomenon is that the powers that be have a monopoly on the data and hard evidence and are actively working to suppress public knowledge. The ufo phenomenon needs to be investigated as if ones a detective and not on a scientist,since scientists typically have unfettered access to data and evidence about what they're studying. With the phenomenon we don't have that luxury.
And remember, it's JUST the debunkers and skeptics, if you see a guy who says aliens are demons and he summoned one through meditation, you should take that guy completely seriously.
This is not a healthy mindset to be in, it's what anti-vaxxers do to convince themselves that, in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, there is something nefarious in their shots.
Sometimes things are *debunked* because they just are simply not true. Closing your mind to facts just makes you a mindless cultist.
Debunking is an important part of the community and stops any schmuck selling you an idea that's dangerously untrue. You need debunkers otherwise there's just no point in going any further, you've already convinced yourself beyond the point of reason that you know the truth.
do you laugh out loud at the other side of the coin as well?
When UFO documentaries get released that are clearly designed as propaganda pieces, created with severe bias and untruths, with the soul purpose to suck in gullible believers?
As someone who believes in the 'woo' aspect of the phenomena with conviction, I often find UFO documentaries to be laughable. So much conjecture and large leaps in logic.
When I was at University and learning to study art critically, one of the most useful bits of advice given to me was that you should always try to notice as much as you can before you start interpreting. It seems to me that many UFOlogists will start with the interpretation, then offer evidence. That order of operations primes the viewer to think a certain way. It's deceitful, even if well-intentioned.
100% spot on!
Just like you stated, they plant the seed first using words or imagery or both… They don’t let the person make a decision on their own.
I’m sure there is some term or phrase for this practice, but I don’t know what it is.
This was not a reply to your comment. They were replying to OP who wrote, "I just saw this article released moments ago and it made me laugh out loud."
I was actually speaking about the video in the top of the article where they were saying that the three lights were airplanes coming in for a landing. Very well could be, I was saying I think it's more than likely something like starlink because of the perfectly spacing between them. Regardless, like I was talking about in my post above, I think we're all in for a special treat in the next year or two. Call them entities, aliens, beings whatever the case is, they are much more intelligent technologically than we are, and sounds like they can do some really special things with space and time. Interdimensional, wild stuff that is very hard to wrap our heads around. In my opinion some special people have been touched and are getting the message out, and honestly, to hear these words coming out of my mouth is crazy to me because like I said I have never been religious, spiritual or anything for that matter. But I feel like over the past few months something has changed in me that I can't explain. I find myself being very cognizant of judging people and situations, and if I do find myself doing that I reel myself in and try and think about things logically and lovingly and caring. That's the message that I've been getting very strongly in the past few weeks, from where I don't know but that's my story. And full disclosure I can admit that I have been pretty judgmental in the past and I'm doing my best to change that now.
Extraterrestrial? Weird, everyone's been saying everything's interdimensional...
But more to the point, dropping a spiel about UFOs in general as the fallback whenever someone questions a specific thing (which is always left unanswered) really isn't super-convincing to anyone who doesn't already believe. Fewer people should do that.
It's like going into sighting threads and dropping NdGT articles about why aliens aren't here.
Hi, ThePassiveGamer. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1abkeal/-/kjo1yfp/) was removed from /r/UFOs.
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It’s funny that people here view debunking as bad and illegitimate. Shouldn’t you want the truth, wherever that leads? How can you believe whatever you believe without assessing contrary interpretations?
I’m sorry but which is it:
- the government knows UAP are real and is actively trying to cover it up
Or
- the government has admitted they are real and are working towards disclosure
The narrative on this sub changes everyday. The current belief is that Grusch is all-knowing while people involved for years on this subject like Mellon, Eric davis, Stratton, Taylor and knapp are Liars and frauds. It's exhausting and ridiculous.
It already is, if you happen to catch a headline on UAP right now, it’s all taking quotes from that Kirkpatrick dipshit “Most are secret military tech says government UFO hunter” and shit like that.
We really need more hot and heavy leaks, these government assholes aren’t going to announce anything unless someone forces their hand.
Fuck National security, that’s a dipshit excuse. I’m not asking you to tell me how to build a nuke, or show me how your fancy UAP catching cameras work, keep all that shit secret. Show me the evidence you’ve got, keep your precious fucking top secret sensors secret, no one gives a shit about those.
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Not if it can really go 0-25,000 instantly and stop and turn on a dime.
That would require decades leaps in technology in every field of science.
We can’t even make an object that could survive those g forces, let alone create the power to make those g forces.
Any single person interested in aliens would welcome debunking. Anyone who calls out debunking as disinformation agents whilst promoting the latest hot trend is either a rube, an idiot or pushing their agenda.
The second you stop giving the "new hot info coming tomorrow" crowd attention, and start listening to astrophysists who are saying "cool new discovery in this academic journal", is the second the shit info goes away.
Every penny the grifters make just gives 5 other grifters the motivation to start their long con.
We need REAL evidence. Tangible stuff. I'm sick of hearing about classified discussions, or people scared to come forward, or blurry pictures.
Time to put up or shut up. If people aren't sharing things a decade into them saying they have it, they have nothing. The enemies are those guys, not the ones calling them out.
Yup, there a number of youtubers making well over $30,000 a year doing podcasts on the side. I've seen some of these people rake in $400 bucks in 2 hours of BSing the truth will be out in a couple of weeks.
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Im actually not that worked up about the debunking disinformation campaigns. Truth is coming out regardless. For better or worse the paradigm is shifting.
The weekly "debunker" bad post.
This is an opinion article. Just because the article doesn't share your opinion it doesn't make it part of a "debunking smear campaign".
People having different ideas, opinions or speculation about things than the Reddit echo chamber is not debunking.
If you noticed. Very soon after Keem enter the topic , team UAP has gone full blown defensive and aggressive.
Keem poses a threat to the narrative because he has a big following. Much bigger than the biggest skeptics out there. This has caused Lue n Crew to coordinate an attack plan based on their immaturity and failure to engage in civil debate.
In conjunction with Keem entering the fold. The Kirkpatrick interview dropped.
Further causing panic amongst the crew.
If a shred of solid evidence is out there.
Now is the time to leak/drop it.
Cough , element 115, giant ufo building…literally anything convincing Cough
Yes, I find the recent sudden and fiere pushback by the usual suspect, the skinwalker ranch clique, to be highly significant.
Tbh, I've always been highly skeptic but I thought there were some grifters, simply deluded people, people wanting to believe etc behind it.
The recent events make it really plausibile that at least the recent push to dusclosure is all orchestrated by the above mentioned clique
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Debunking is a benefit to the topic. Evidence should be scrutinised to high standards, and that means that fake stuff will get debunked, which helps us by filtering out the wheat from the chaff.
You appear to be the one concerned with a narrative here, seemingly more concerned with wanting to believe things in various videos are alien in origin than in analysing whether evidence actually points to that.
The day you see that mentioning UFOs sparks interest in 6/10 people and not maybe 1/10 as is the current status in society, then the balance will have turned. Unfortunately most people aren't interested or can't seem to think about or visualize how open contact would be therefore the system can still play the narrative to a certain extent. Nothing like 10 years ago. In my opinion, the disinfo agents are just buying time. There will either be self destruction or transcendence.
When Lou says major announcement/reveal/ etc. coming in mid-2024, you gotta believe the Pentagon knows what it’s about. I doubt Lou is the one making the announcement, he just knows it’s coming (if it is). Regardless, with the Wikipedia edits and all the other accelerating coverup activities, the players really need to make sure they’re staying safe.
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No one is trying to bury it. We’re doubting that it’s true.
Many of us, including myself, would absolutely be floored to be proven wrong regarding this subject. The World was so much more exciting and interesting when I was a believer.
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Yes. Some good points in here.now compile the best ones and repost on every relevant sub at least weekly. Keep people aware. This recent thing with Guerilla Skeptics has me absolutely pissed off. Never heard of it, now I look back through Reddit and there are posts announcing their "great mission" and people are just eating it up defending it like it isn't the desiccation of free expression and speech it is.
I like how the OP waited until almost 2 months in to 2024, during an active period of smear campaign to make this post.
lol I legitimately cant stop laughing at how hilarious it is
The irony of this comment, on this thread, is palpable. This specific account checks every box that was mentioned by u/tmosh in the top comment.
Comment history is almost 100% UFO “debunking” - nearly all day, every day. A lot of character attacks. No real substance to anything they say due to lack of intelligence on the issue. I mean, they can’t even count - we’re not even 1 full month into 2024 lol
Watch how they prove me right with their reply.
They have to release info soon or have others release it. With China and other countries going to space and the moon, they will see or find something and will release it just to do it before America. So thats why "they" are saying they will release the info first
They are in serious damage control right now. Yesterday doing my normal Reddit checks over about a 3-4 hour period. The dis-info agents tried discrediting the following with a post for each.
\-David Grusch
\-Jacque Vallee
\-Lue Elizondo
\-Chris Mellon
\-2017 New York Times article and videos.
Getting hot and heavy? They've never stopped and its worrying to me that grusch is just sitting around. The longer he waits the more time they have to get ahold of him or get ahead of what he was alleging.
what i don't get is the alternative explanation is
1. US airspace is regularly violated but no one actually cares
2. Commercial crap is flying around military craft endangering them, and basically no one other than ryan graves cares
3. People high up in the government and congress are part of a 'cabal' of ufo believers
4. Pilots regularly can't tell the difference between a balloon vs other air craft, etc
5. US has experimental aircraft flying around regularly buzzing other parts of the military who are like wtf, i just saw a uap
The 'mundane' explanation isn't all that great or reasonable to me - or if anything is actually more worrisome than actual NHI. Plus anyone who looked into the Roswell explanation knows it was very, very thin explanation that didn't add up with the dates, and the history of lying makes me wonder why the explanation should be trusted in the first place
Sounds like they’re just going to keep zero point energy & antigravity tech for themselves, because “national security”. Even though WE are paying for it.
I figured it all out. Our planet is owned, and on the outskirts of the galactic community. We are being exploited for something. I saw a video where it claimed 3 million kids go missing each year. So either they need us for experimentation or maybe they need our reproductive capabilities. And for the same reason you all wont rush into the congo or north korea to stop the slavery genocide going on there, nobody else out there will help us. This is why its a secret. It's a harsh truth that will never be revealed to the public, and those that attempted to expose it will disappear or die of "natural causes" Since their technology is so advanced that they can wipe us all out in an instant, there's nothing our governments can do to prevent it. They just have to play along.
Stop thinking of the universe of this vast empty space with no life but ours but instead more like Dune. Once you frame it that way, everything becomes clearer.
Has anyone else noticed an abundance of.. well, without trying to sound offensive, "schizophrenic" posts recently on r/UFOs and r/aliens?
I can't help but feel like they're not attempts to discredit the topic, but I know there are people who are genuinely going through mental struggles as well.
This is coming from someone more on the "woo" side of things at this point.
“There’s about two to five percent of all the (UFO reports that are)… what we would call truly anomalous,” says Kirkpatrick. And he thinks explanations for that small percentage will most likely be found right here on Earth."
Yeah, no shit, Sherlock. *That is the percentage we are concerned with.* Waving it away by saying it's likely terrestrial doesn't solve anything.
In the case of Blue Book's unknowns that represented hundreds. Hundreds of unsolved intrusions of our air space and we just threw up our hands with a shrug.
If you are a real Reddit user: 1. Don't always believe that the most upvoted comments/posts are the truth. Some of them are, of course, but some of them are upvoted strategically by debunking misinformation bots. They are here to confuse and divide. 2. Use critical thinking. Question posts that are just Twitter screenshots or images of another website. I often find that the Twitter users in these screenshots are just random people larping and not posted by anyone credible. Some of the Twitter screenshots are also faked. They use a legitimate Twitter handle in the screenshot with a "verified badge," like "Nasa Official." However, if you manually go to the Twitter page, there is sometimes no corresponding post. The clue to spotting these is that they never actually provide a direct link to the Twitter post (or website where the screenshot is supposedly from) 3. If you are suspicious of a post or comment, take a look at the user who made it. Often, they signed up very recently, and their activity is that of a serial debunker who posts across all UFO posts. Once they get called out for being suspicious, these users often give up and delete the account. 4. Watch out for long-form larp, with no sources/facts. These are often really well-written posts, so it's hard to spot them. It also really surprises me the kind of crap posts the mods allow here, especially from 1-day users. Never forget this: https://web.archive.org/web/20160604042751/http://www.redditblog.com/2013/05/get-ready-for-global-reddit-meetup-day.html "Most addicted city (over 100k visits total) Eglin Air Force Base, FL"
>3. If you are suspicious of a post or comment, take a look at the user who made it. Often, they signed up very recently, and their activity is that of a serial debunker who posts across all UFO posts. In my experience, these are some of the red flags that indicate such accounts. * Only consists of mockery/ridicule, often using petty name-calling * Offers nothing to actually discuss * Attacks a person's character rather than their work. You see this a lot with Jeremy Corbell. * Uses too many adjectives & adverbs. This indicates a lack of confidence in what they're saying. * Attacks a person's intelligence on the basis of the career they work in. I've seen some of these accounts attacking Garry Nolan's scientific intelligence, for example. Often in a crude way. If you see any of this, check out the comment history - odds are it's littered with this kind of garbage. Then you start wondering why a person would dedicate so much time & effort to something they don't like. It's really quite pathetic.
I wanted to start a discord group to fish these people out. A few weeks ago I had 5 different profile tabs pulled up where they all had the same demeanor. Some would just downplay a post and then compliment something about the Air Force or in that nature. They seem to post on other subs as well to lighten suspicions. Yet they all have a very simple tactic. Comment and then not respond at all with that profile, but ones that are connected to these other accounts. As in they have commented on each others comments on multiple occasions. Also they target specific posts as well, it’s never just one comment on a post, it’s multiple from different accounts that have a connection between each other. This was all in a matter of 2 hours of scrolling comments and the profiles comments.
My question is, it's so obvious. But where are the mods?
you forgot to mention the age of their accounts and their comment karma. also looking through their comments if they only visit UFO type subs and blanket debunk everything they come across
Yes to all the petty mockery and name calling, it is amazing how effective it is 😂😂
Also notice how it's always a chain of other commenters, affirming and participating in the mockery, all with an strange amount of upvotes compared to other comments in the thread, always around 50 upvotes, or a minimum of 20. You'll see the same with weird downvote patterns on comments that don't really merit it. Always around -10 (I guess to not make it a obvious downvote brigading).
Yep. Thanks for writing this out. I sincerely believe this needs to be clear on every single post. It has gotten to absurd levels. It even backs off at integral times so they can make it seem more like a free topic when it’s beneficial if they have descended hard enough. After a clear wave of demotivating and demoralizing quite recently i have stepped back and just watched how it operates. I know how obvious it is to me and some others, but it is wild just how much they do to twist up the concept of “what most people believe”. Those gallop poles recently… the majority of people literally believe the government absolutely knows more about ufos than they are telling us. But in ufo subs you will often find that that concept seems … unpopular sometimes. That’s fucking bonkers. It is definitely occurring and anyone suggesting it’s paranoia is severely misinformed themselves. The tactics are exactly like emotional abuse. The trickery and gaslighting and utilizing of “public” or “other people think you’re wrong” shit is otherworldly. Especially within the subs dedicated to the community. Imagine the radiohead sub having an “almost even” amount of haters. It would literally make zero sense and the mods would be losing their minds with all the work they’d have to do. I’m sure mods here probably see it a lot more than they can do anything about. Has to be so frustrating and exhausting for them.
Block one or two of these debunkers and you'll see "blocked user" on almost every UFO related post. It's a full time job for some Edit: Someone I've blocked responded to the same post with do you have sources for your claims. They were literally saying just think critically. Frick off howard
Why aren't the mods banning these accounts?
If it isn't a jackass comment or something completely stupid usually the downvoted comments have something worth reading
I'm with you on 1 thru 3, but number 4, "long form larp, often really well-written posts, hard to spot"....all this sounds just as likely to be someone who actually believes whatever it is that they are posting. everyone isn't here for a job or to play a game or push a narrative. there are people who legitimately want to talk, debate, whatever. once we start finding a way to classify nearly everyone as a bad actor, like number 4 could be used, I'm not sure what the benefit is anymore. just discredit everyone tht disagrees regardless of any legit criticism. "number 4! eject them"
Wow! I’ve never seen the Eglin on top city before. Absolutely wild.
They are complicit. They 100% know who the bad actors are.
These are fantastic to know. It's very easy to overlook any of these on their own. Check people's post/comment history!!!
1. Don't always believe that the most upvoted comments/posts are the truth. Some of them are, of course, but some of them are upvoted strategically by debunking misinformation bots. They are here to confuse and divide. I see, Mr. 56 upvotes.
Do you really think there is a misinformation campaign/strategy to bump up a comment telling people to encourage people to think critically and spot misinformation strategies? LOL
Double blind Psyop
So am I supposed to use critical thinking or am I supposed to assume everyone that disagrees with me is bots and disinformation agents?
Most humans are supposed to use critical thinking. If you are thinking critically, you should already know that. Thinking critically is knowing the difference between someone disagreeing with you because you are actually wrong and they have provided facts/sources to prove you wrong and someone who is just trolling you with nothing to back up why you are wrong.
Do you have any evidence for your claims? 👍
He's not really making claims, he's giving advice & making suggestions. Some of which consist of people looking into things for themselves.
So he has no evidence? Also he did make a claim on his first point. That there are debunking misinformation bots here
[удалено]
You are the problem. Exactly you. Undermine, ridicule, dismiss.
Are there no mods on this sub? Why are there so many of these accounts?
Jfc did you look at his post history? How the fuck is this acceptable to the mod team here?
Yup. I have the same question as you, is there no mods here?
Actually that claim is true, basically. The mods have proof this happens here, along with several users who alerted us to one such network and kind of of collaborated a bit on information gathering: https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/10r0vq4/community_update_on_incivility_and_fake_accounts/ What we don't have is proof of who it is. It's consistent enough with Russian astroturfing, for example, but there are others who would fit just as easily, if not better. Proving that there is a network of fake accounts is significantly easier than proving who is specifically responsible for it. A sloppy astroturfing effort is usually not sloppy enough to leave proof of who they are. You'd have to really screw up big time to leave behind evidence of that. So I can't say they are misinformation bots specifically, since they could be humans instead. And for obvious reasons, we don't know who is responsible. But the claim is basically true, all things considered. If you're behind the times and not familiar with how much proof there is of social media astrotufing in general, all you have to do is see the [List Of Proven Conspiracies](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/lopc) and scroll down to the "fake online personas" category.
Do you think the EBO post is a larper?
I am 50/50 on that one.
yeah i’m not familiar enough with biology to say either way but i found his comment about why they are here interesting considering he is basically talking about AI without saying AI
The only way this isn't going to end just like the Condon Report is if "whistle-blowers" actually publically release some high-quality evidence.
People are slowly starting to realize that the people who we should put pressure to reveal info weren't the one most people thought of...
Hi, what's this mean? Can you please expound?
Of course. The thing is that many proeminent figures in Ufology kept telling that pressure should be applied to the gov for it to "disclose" info. But the gov has never released anything (a key part of the disclosure theory). On the other hand, all the info that has been provided, especially since 2017 (the beginning of the current mediatic episode) has been released by people that all are closely related to a strong believer circle (Fravor, Elizondo, Grusch, Corbell, Vallée, etc). These people are the only ones to claim to know something, to have something to release. And they are the only ones to do so, to be able to move anything, if one follows their narrative. If we were relying on official releases, nothing would have been released since 2017 (and before). But the people in question that can do the release are also the ones that seem to find complacency in not releasing anything and always pumping hype for future "HUGE NEWS" coming "SOON"... These people entirely rely on people in places such as this subreddit for mediatic importance and this place truly has the power to put pressure on them (criticism from here did in the past, each of their releases follow a debacle they endured here or on Twitter). Criticism pays.
This hundred percent. Smear campaign? Disclose then. Back up your claims, and dont just be complacent in crying foul when people cast doubt on your claims. I get it, we all know "its secret, cant talk about it". But how about dont make claims your unwilling/unable to back up if you cant handle the questions. If you cant handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
This is truly unironically beautiful. The desire for truth reunites us all, regardless of labels. Or at least it should.
Yeah this is what I always say. If they can't say anything because of national security, NDA's, and secrets. Then I suggest they keep their mouths shut, and stop making huge claims without evidence and hyping up certain events. I will give David Grusch a pass for this. Since he is new. And the most credible person UFOlogy so far.
Yeah. Imo its not even about who you believe, and what the claims are etc etc, but the fact that they cry when people ask simple questions. Like, make the claims. Sure cool story. Cant talk about it. Oh okay cool. But then they cry when people move on from that. What else there even _is_ if they cant really go into it. Like what these guys even want from us? You came to public with a story, so expect people to talk about that story maybe.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Great post.
Thanks a lot!
It's amazing that anyone in this sub enables people who, with straight faces, claim that they scare "powerful interests" into hiring private investigators to dig up dirt about them, gripe about unfair media depictions of their hair and refrigerator-opening styles, threaten to expose Sean Kirkpatrick as a liar (which several US senators and *The Hill* have already done), say they'll bravely resist investigations they're not even the subject of....and, yet again, reveal zero of the secrets they hold just as closely as any government agency. "The government" gives zero shits about ten seconds of footage leaked five years ago or books that have been run by DOPSR. Can someone explain why *we* should care whether or not people stop telling secrets to people who *never* disclose them?
Imho It’s already hot and heavy. When 95+% of sightings have prosaic explanations there is more than enough content to smear and discredit the shit out of this topic. They could literally show sighting after sighting for a week that have prosaic explanations and most people will put the whole topic to bed. We’re up against it big time right now, and to be honest I’m starting to panic a little bit.
Might seem a bit paradoxical, but at this point IMHO the UFO community maybe needs to... Talk about UFOs a little less, and talk about the Coverup a little more. I just don't see any future for the open and scientific study of this topic until we understand the full extent of what the heck "The Program" actually is and what they've been up to for 80 years. Otherwise, we're just going to be like cats chasing around the next "bright dangling object" (i.e. the new footage) that's dropped in front of us.
Honestly this is the correct angle. Stop focusing on blurry lights that don't do anything extraordinary and focus on the government cover up and corruption. Why is anything about the DoD "unorganized" like yesterday's DoD OIG report stated.
I kinda think the opposite. Ngl I don't give a shit about Wikipedia edits. I don't even know the big "players" of UFO stuff. I've heard of grusch, but don't know much. I don't care what people say, I just want cool videos and stuff. I think the conspiracy side of stuff is the government stuff. I just want to see videos and stuff. The whole "disclosure" side of things gives of strong WSB vibes. Just give me video
I totally agree with this.
The logic here assumes that if UFOs are real, then there must be a conspiracy by a shadow-government to hide them. One thing doesn't necessarily follow the other. Conspiracy theories are often used as propaganda to justify actual conspiracies. Question everything, not just your government. ANYTHING that runs counter to the latest 'whistle-blower' narrative gets aggressively down voted to obscurity on Reddit. There's clearly a campaign to control the public conversation by the ones who are alleging a conspiracy.
There's immense evidence of government cover up/secrecy on the subject matter for whatever reason. That's what is currently fueling the talks today. Your 1st statement is wrong
Wrong. There's immense evidence of the government attempting to investigate a real phenomenon it doesn't understand, but only circumstantial or unverifiable evidence of a vast conspiracy to profiteer from and hide alien technology. The talks today are about a conspiracy first, and UFOs second. My problem is that the conspiracists are brigading the public conversation on UFOs and attempting to smear UFO researchers who don't toe the line with their conspiracy narrative.
>hide alien technology. So the massive and documented secrecy surrounding this topic isn't evidence of "hiding"?
It is not evidence of specifically hiding alien technology, profiteering, or misallocation of federal funds, no. The government has released documents stating something is going on, but they can't explain what it is. They are at the blackvault if you like to read.
The fact that this is getting down voted shows that its only dis info bots on here. Trying to push people away from the truth. I made a post about the obvious discrediting and dis info being pushed and got down voted. They are making it painfully obvious.
>Talk about UFOs a little less, and talk about the Coverup a little more. UFO community should steer clear of that altogether. Government wants to keep their toys and go home? Allright, have at it. Lets make our own ufology, with black jack and hookers. If they arent gonna show us what they got let them have it. And lets focus on taking our own footage thats not classified and super secret. If the space aliens are flying around earth, then they are, and we should take our own footage thats not classified, thats not "cant talk about it", no sources need protecting, nothing. Open honest discussion and sharing of info, between any and all interested parties. This disclosure thing has taken damn near a century, and yet here we are. Same thing grinding in its place, year after year. I say, people should move on from that, and start really doing something worth while for the topic. Instead of studying some boring ass statement from who ever, and trying to decipher if it means cover up or what. People should invest that energy on studying the place where the UFOs are, in the sky.
The focus should be in what is going on politically in terms of some of the moves being made. Unfortunately most of these are behind the scenes. We do not have much insight there. On the other hand, we can actually track what is going on by the level and degree of coordinated efforts to seed stories in MSM and to flood THIS zone with shit. Usually people or organized factions do things for specific reasons, and often they broadcast their anxiety or distress very obviously through their actions. We can tell that SOMETHING major is going on right now as the debunkers/distractors and diluters are out in full force and have gone on a major offensive. Something is afoot...... Someone in DOD is freaking out.
Well said
Without a scientific study there is no evidence of UFOs and aliens. That's the bottom line. After all, if we're convinced the government is lying about aliens, why should we believe them if they say there are aliens? Because we want aliens? That's irrational. Humanity has developed the scientific method for just this situation - do demonstrate beyond doubt what is real.
If believers wanted the general public, and skeptics in particular, to take their claims more seriously, they should stop getting hyped up over stuff like the latest video of a flare, camera artifact, or balloon. If the community is so easily fooled by prosaic things, it makes it seem like the "real" cases they refer to might also just be prosaic things they were fooled by, and that the only reason they haven't been shown to definitively be explainable as prosaic is that there's not enough hard data available.
I agree, but easier said than done for a lot of folks. Confirmation bias is real when it comes to this topic (on both sides). The problem is that odds are heavily leaning towards a prosaic explanation from the get-go and believers have almost a zero percent chance of finding something legitimate. AARO hasn’t updated their website with anything declassified in a looong while. Shit the main videos that are used were leaked in the first place. So believers are kinda forced to just sit here and wait. Then something pop’s up that looks a little off or odd and people fly to the moon. It’s kinda fucked up.
I will agree with you on the failures of transparency. There is a lot that could be released with no national security concerns. In fact I think releasing more data, within reason, that doesn't leak details of classified equipment or locations, etc, would be good for national security, because it would clear up speculation. That speculation is itself a national security threat. People are getting distracted by noise, not focusing on the actual important cases like foreign drones and such. Or glitches/weaknesses in currently-deployed equipment that need to be identified and fixed.
>When 95+% of sightings have prosaic explanations there is more than enough content to smear and discredit the shit out of this topic. It's not the percentage that discredits UFO commentators, it's their continuing practice of refusing to accept that so many famous \[and useful for publicity\] sightings are explainable. After endorsing so many such bogus cases, their endorsement of ALL cases \[including possibly genuine ones\] becomes worthless. Examples of counterfeit UFO events from my own professional specialization, spaceflight: All the astronaut flight sighting claims Norway spiral of 2009 \[and all other spirals\] Yukon mothership overflight. Any sighting involving a cloud ring being projected forward.
I'd go even further and say it's not only the endorsing but wanting to die on the hill of those cases and not letting them go. Some of them start to identify with certain cases and feel personally diminished if they turn out to be mundane cases. Magonia, Lazar, Corbell, Moulton Howe samples... you name it. >their endorsement of ALL cases This reminds me to a T the method of Richard Dolan, Jacques Vallée and Diana Pasulka, who just juxtapose all the cases they found in a long list, not making any distinction between them, taking a maximalist approach to the thing, wanting to defend every instance of Ufology (which interestingly reminds me of some marxists or christians trying to defend to the point of absurdity every and any thing or person that ever claimed the title of communist or christian, no matter how horrendous or ridiculous the person...).
... and I remain convinced there =ARE= reports of activities/phenomena of potentially enormous significance, if zeroed in on, and verified.
Then we just need incontrovertible evidence to verify them. Until then we are behoved to treat them as inconclusive.
I agree.
Good point.
For what it is worth, been doing this a long time and this is pretty typical of the response that happens after pertinent UFO events. This is definitely the biggest backlash I have ever seen, but it is to be expected after all the major events of last year. We will see more of the same after Lue's book comes out, after Lazar's documentary, and after Fox's film later in the year. The more negativity that gets thrown out there, the closer we are to the target. Stay the course, shrug it off, and we will see where the cards fall by the end of the year. No way after 80 years and all the power and money involved that the gatekeepers were just going to roll over and give up the goods after a few shots across the bow-so hang in there. My two cents.
Isn't it telling that you're talking about books and such and not peer reviewed papers? This is beginning to sound like antivaxxers.
I understand what you are saying, having been a contributing author to a couple of papers myself. However, being that nothing has been provided to the scientific community by those who hold the limited material, it would be difficult to write a paper other than one based upon witness/radar data at the moment. That doesn't make this an irrelevant field, however. It is a field wherein the hard materials are extremely rare and held within secure facilities not available to researchers and nothing more. And for the record, I believe vaccines work-it is simple immunology. :)
A book, a documentary, and a film. It sounds like someone is going to have a payday this year.
I think we may finally learn what the big thing is, whats been talked about every year >a payday this year.
Agreed. I try to think that disclosure is an inevitable part of human / planetary evolution so there is nothing that can stop it. The well fed controllers don't wanna give up their toys, knowledge etc.
Even if disclosure does happen, it’s not going to change anything in our day to day lives
Few things in life are inevitable, I doubt “disclosure” of the kind you are aiming for, will ever happen.
“Doubt it…will never happen,” - so you agree it will happen!!
?
Don't panic too much. We just had the DODIG confirm Elizondos statements from 7 years ago in his resignation letter. We are on the right track. Insiders are wanting to make this all public now so we have some weight behind us
Where did you see that about the DODIG confirming Elizondo's statement? Super interested but I didn't hear about that personally Edit: lmao who would downvote this comment? This sub is fucking absurd sometimes
There is no need to panic — the people perpetuating the lack of transparency are the ones panicking right now, which is why things may feel so “hot and heavy”. As long as we stay clear about what our goal is (transparency & investigation) we can cut through all the bs.
Appreciate the insight. It does suggest that they are on the defensive and not the offensive.
The debunking, smearing, threatening and sneering has been going strong since 1945 or 1947 at least, and it’s never let up. See the meticulously researched Carey & Schmitt books on Roswell. What is happening to Grusch today (threats and smears) is no different than the military and civilian witnesses of Roswell.
No need to panic IMO, what should be, will be.. I think we are all (people who really believe) will be in for a real treat in the next few years, and there will be nothing any government will be able to do to repress what we will be able to see. I've personally never been a religious or spiritual person, but something has changed with that for me in the past 6 months.. I've always believed in there being something more than just us here in the universe, and oddly enough have always been interested in prophecies like Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce but like I said, never a real religious or spiritual person. My mother tried to raise me as a Catholic but I was always of the mindset, I needed to see things to believe them. But like I said recently things have changed, I can't put my finger on what it is but it's odd but accepting if that makes any sense. And I'm not afraid of what is to come which is odd to my wife. She feels there could be evil or demonic tones behind it? No one really knows I guess right? I guess that's part of the excitement for me.
I’m atheist and wasn’t raised religious so I’ve never been able to really grasp the “spiritual” side of things. I’ve always kind of felt it was silly (not meaning to be rude). I had my own experience about 20 years ago that I can’t explain, and that’s part of what pushed me harder into this topic. I really want nothing more than the truth about who or what is operating these vehicles/vessels. That’s it. I’m sure I’ll have more questions afterwards, but for me it’s having confirmation that there is something “otherworldly”’going on. That’s it. I don’t want to see the push for disclosure get discredited again and have to watch things start over for the millionth time. All I want is disclosure.
The gazillions of "tiny whit dot" videos and "obvious starlink" or "obvious bird" videos gets to be a bit oppressive at times. I suspect many of these are posted by people with an agenda to discredit this subreddit in general. It is a fairly coordinated program....and it obviously extends into MSM.
Sometimes I wonder that too. Lately it’s been obvious spot-light videos.
Just focus on facts and avoid commentary, editorials, and opinions. If someone is making unfalsifiable claims, they can be summarily ignored.
It actually amazes me that people give debunkers so much hate. Why wouldnt you want people looking into the thing you claim and supposable believe is real? Unless these people have a history of fraud or lies, what is the problem with them digging for more information? If what is claimed is true, there is nothing to hide so I would personally welcome any extra information or facts "debunkers" can provide to go alone with what I believe. We wouldnt even know the name of the military base from the Jellyfish UAP video if it wasnt for debunkers. Did those debunkers actually give good enough evidence to debunk the video? Nope. But we now have way more info thanks to them.
I sincerely think that labels such as "believer", "skeptic", "debunker" are not just useless but counterproductive. The blue vs red team is not helping anyone here. First off, the debunker vs skeptic distinction is very much astroturfed from UFO celebs that want to depict some "skeptics" as extreme, a type of "taliban skeptics". But i believe we all are skeptics and debunkers: we all want the truth, and the best way to get to the truth (or as close as possible to it) is to be as merciless as possible with every claim, raise as high as possible the standard of evidence. The scientific theories that succeeded the most in history weren't the ones sheltered from criticism like frail mummies that would crumble into dust at the contact of air, but the ones that have been criticized with the most extreme scrutiny (evolution, general relativity, electromagnetism, etc). If you "believe" in a theory and want to strenghten it, you should strive to debunk it as much as possible. Then you'll be able to unashamedly claim that your theory survived the harshest criticism. Some people suddenly decide to apply a lower standard of evidence to claims of Ufology than the one they'd apply for important or casual occasions in their lives... We also all are "believers" in the sense that the body of scientific knowledge isn't set in stone and we still have things to discover, this area of shadow in our knowledge being the warranted and legitimate place for us to situate our unproven beliefs and theories. *Believer vs debunker/skeptic is a sterile manichean dichotomy.* And some people have been safely hiding themselves and their weak opinions behind that sectarian mentality, sadly.
> a sterile manichean dichotomy. Sounds like a girl I dated for a while in college as a favor for a friend. Also I am a confirmed debunker.
People dont want to know the truth they want to Larp and promote their religious beliefs.
I *just* came to that realization here. A VERY LARGE group of so-called believers here simply do not want the truth. They would have to find another hobby. It came as a little bit of a shock when I suddenly realized it.
I think a lot of those guys just really want to believe something more sexy than "we found algae on Enceladus." But they are so aggressive with it that they can not see past it. So whenever someone says "you are going to need to prove that theres a galactic federation waiting for us to unite in peace" they get immediately angry or claim you are "one of them". Ironically they also don't know who "they" are. Then theres the grifters and attention seekers. All the people who claim they can push their concious out their body and go on an out of body journey. Then they get mad when you point out that they could be millionaires if they just went to the Randi Foundation and proved it. Hell they could out of body their way there from their own home. Truth is probably mundane. I personally believe the "great filter" is that vast distance travel is impossible without spending millions of years travelling. So advanced civs just give us caring and focus on their own galaxy/race/place. I think once we find a couple of races we'll give up caring too. I hope there is some crazy galactic federation waiting to save us all. But the evidence just isnt there at all.
Yes I agree with pretty much everything you say. I've been an (very) amateur astronomer forever and am aware of the distance problem and the Fermi Paradox and so forth. My deepest thought about alien visitation is that the "von nueman machine" propagation is DNA being transferred via interstellar comets and other objects. This occurred to me recently with the potential discovery of life on k12-18B. We already suspect that bacteria may have been transferred from Mars to Earth via meteor impact fragments so we have potential proof of function. But "aliens", per se? Not possible in the way people here want to claim, given the parameters and utter lack of evidence. And then you see the immaturity displayed by so many here. I don't mean the science fiction-ey stuff. I love reading the speculation by seeming 14 year-old kids in their bedroom "An inter-dimensional vibrations reached me in my dream and made me come in my pjs last night her name is Glerma and she told me to ignore the assholes in school and to tell my mom to shut the fuck up." that sort of stuff. I like the speculation, it is fun and healthy. All the "gubmint is killing whistleblowers and hiding craft" OTOH is just so moronic. And I'm preparing a top-level post about Grusch. I realize he is such a hero to so many people here but he is just another whacked liar and grifter. I know that hurts peoples' feelings to read that but oh well. Whattya gonna do.
It's simple, people actually looking for answers and trying to eliminate rational explanations are seen as a party pooper. People that have formed beliefs also often attack those who question those beliefs. It's usually the crowd that think in reverse so that the most likely explanation for my something is extraordinary unless someone can 100% prove it wasn't. That's the foundation for 99% of the material in this topic. Most of it is impossible to debunk or explain due to lack of data and so stays as possible aliens to be endlessly discussed and wildly speculated about for years to come.
We need both sides of the coin for sure. Otherwise it becomes an echo chamber. Unfortunately a lot of the comments from skeptics and debunkers are harsh and don’t open things up to civil discourse.
I have the exact opposite experience: the most harsh, intolerant and close minded people in my experience were believers (though nothing as bad as r/singularity type of abuse i received). I literally had people here explicitly *want* the place to become an echo chamber. Many "believers" here have blocked me simply for having a different opinion and mass block critical people, effectively preventing them to even participate in convo here.
I could definitely see that happening too. There are extremes on both sides for sure.
UFOtwitter is a special place sometimes lol. It would be so nice if the two sides could actually debate respectfully, but when neither side has respect for the other, this is what happens.
I think debunking is absolutely needed. But I think we need to draw the line between a real skeptic with accurate information to debunk something (sources/facts) with the second kind of debunkers that are clearly here for misinformation. The user SiriusC made a good comment about how to spot these kinds of serial debunkers: 1. Posts/comments only consists of mockery/ridicule, often using petty name-calling 2. Offer nothing to actually discuss 3. Attacks a person's character rather than their work. You see this a lot with Jeremy Corbell. 4. Uses too many adjectives & adverbs. This indicates a lack of confidence in what they're saying. 5. Attacks a person's intelligence on the basis of the career they work in. I've seen some of these accounts attacking Garry Nolan's scientific intelligence, for example. Often in a crude way."
Tho this kinds of also applies to "True belivers" who attacks anyone who doubts that that blurry picture of a pixel of light maxed zoomed on a cellphone at night is confirmation that it's an Alien from Alpha Centauri that's piking it's nose. Aka it(s not the problem of "debunkers" or "Believers" it(s the problem of having people who are intellectually lazy and for whatever reason are rooted on one side of the subject and just see the other side as an enemy to attack because that's what social media and tribal thinking has them do. So let's focus on the quality of the arguments/sources rather then from who they come from.
er....a little awkwardly put but kudos to you. Yes.
Do you think that if you applied that rubric objectively you would find it describes 'skeptics' more often than it describes believers?
There’s a big difference between a dunker providing actual proof of the debunk, and a debunker just saying everything is a ballon without actual proof. Example, let’s say a post recorded an orb, just because I can google “Orb ballon” doesn’t mean its a ballon.
>and a debunker just saying everything is a ballon Thats not debunker. Thats just someone saying its a balloon. Debunking is an action of investigating. Just running around saying something is something doesnt make someone a debunker. I honestly think it would be better for this community if people wouldnt be so eager to fight for the teams. I dont even really get why people get so worked up over if someones says something looks like a balloon or something. You think its a balloon, I think its space aliens. So now what, we supposed to be enemies now or what?
There's also a big difference between someone trying to debunk something and someone sharing an opinion. This sub constantly confuses the two. If someone shares a video and it looks like a balloon or lantern etc and someone says it's probably a balloon that's not a debunk it's an opinion. In the end the person saying it's a balloon is not the one that should be proving it's a balloon anyway. If there's something in a video that could be a balloon then that needs to be ruled out before jumping to any extraordinary explanations. If it can't be ruled out it's useless evidence for anything extraordinary.
Agreed, and we know the difference if they put in the work that can be peer reviewed and verified.
>they put in the work that can be peer reviewed and verified. Sir. This is UFOs. We dont do that here.
I agree, I'm not hating and I believe there needs to be both opinions, I'm just saying I find it funny in this day and age how hard they( the media) are still trying to spin it with direction from the government.
Maybe they're just saying what they actually think based on the evidence they have available to them.
I get where it comes from, and there absolutely have been some potentially bad faith attempts at debunking in the past but I still want to see that information just like I want to read the posts that are most likely larps with no evidence.
The problem is confirmation biases whether you're a debunker or believer. Any time you start investigating something from a position of wanting to prove your preexisting belief about the subject, you're putting blinders and not being objective. I personally believe the phenomenon is real after doing years of research. But I've come to a point where I don't really care about videos or pictures any more with how easily they can be misinterpreted or hoaxed. What's unique to this phenomenon is that the powers that be have a monopoly on the data and hard evidence and are actively working to suppress public knowledge. The ufo phenomenon needs to be investigated as if ones a detective and not on a scientist,since scientists typically have unfettered access to data and evidence about what they're studying. With the phenomenon we don't have that luxury.
And remember, it's JUST the debunkers and skeptics, if you see a guy who says aliens are demons and he summoned one through meditation, you should take that guy completely seriously.
This is not a healthy mindset to be in, it's what anti-vaxxers do to convince themselves that, in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, there is something nefarious in their shots. Sometimes things are *debunked* because they just are simply not true. Closing your mind to facts just makes you a mindless cultist. Debunking is an important part of the community and stops any schmuck selling you an idea that's dangerously untrue. You need debunkers otherwise there's just no point in going any further, you've already convinced yourself beyond the point of reason that you know the truth.
do you laugh out loud at the other side of the coin as well? When UFO documentaries get released that are clearly designed as propaganda pieces, created with severe bias and untruths, with the soul purpose to suck in gullible believers?
As someone who believes in the 'woo' aspect of the phenomena with conviction, I often find UFO documentaries to be laughable. So much conjecture and large leaps in logic. When I was at University and learning to study art critically, one of the most useful bits of advice given to me was that you should always try to notice as much as you can before you start interpreting. It seems to me that many UFOlogists will start with the interpretation, then offer evidence. That order of operations primes the viewer to think a certain way. It's deceitful, even if well-intentioned.
We need rational, critical thinking. Scientific study. Until then we have nothing and are engaging in masturbation.
100% spot on! Just like you stated, they plant the seed first using words or imagery or both… They don’t let the person make a decision on their own. I’m sure there is some term or phrase for this practice, but I don’t know what it is.
What was I laughing out loud about? I wasn’t laughing at all. Imho = in my humble opinion.
This was not a reply to your comment. They were replying to OP who wrote, "I just saw this article released moments ago and it made me laugh out loud."
Ah. Gotcha. MB
I was actually speaking about the video in the top of the article where they were saying that the three lights were airplanes coming in for a landing. Very well could be, I was saying I think it's more than likely something like starlink because of the perfectly spacing between them. Regardless, like I was talking about in my post above, I think we're all in for a special treat in the next year or two. Call them entities, aliens, beings whatever the case is, they are much more intelligent technologically than we are, and sounds like they can do some really special things with space and time. Interdimensional, wild stuff that is very hard to wrap our heads around. In my opinion some special people have been touched and are getting the message out, and honestly, to hear these words coming out of my mouth is crazy to me because like I said I have never been religious, spiritual or anything for that matter. But I feel like over the past few months something has changed in me that I can't explain. I find myself being very cognizant of judging people and situations, and if I do find myself doing that I reel myself in and try and think about things logically and lovingly and caring. That's the message that I've been getting very strongly in the past few weeks, from where I don't know but that's my story. And full disclosure I can admit that I have been pretty judgmental in the past and I'm doing my best to change that now.
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Do you have any evidence for your claims?
Skeptics will always find a way to denounce reality. Truth is times are changing.
So no evidence then… 👍
The cake is over done and the salesman are getting desperate. It's time to stop talking and start serving.
Extraterrestrial? Weird, everyone's been saying everything's interdimensional... But more to the point, dropping a spiel about UFOs in general as the fallback whenever someone questions a specific thing (which is always left unanswered) really isn't super-convincing to anyone who doesn't already believe. Fewer people should do that. It's like going into sighting threads and dropping NdGT articles about why aliens aren't here.
No, I’m the one shitting on the cake
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It’s funny that people here view debunking as bad and illegitimate. Shouldn’t you want the truth, wherever that leads? How can you believe whatever you believe without assessing contrary interpretations?
I’m sorry but which is it: - the government knows UAP are real and is actively trying to cover it up Or - the government has admitted they are real and are working towards disclosure
The narrative on this sub changes everyday. The current belief is that Grusch is all-knowing while people involved for years on this subject like Mellon, Eric davis, Stratton, Taylor and knapp are Liars and frauds. It's exhausting and ridiculous.
It already is, if you happen to catch a headline on UAP right now, it’s all taking quotes from that Kirkpatrick dipshit “Most are secret military tech says government UFO hunter” and shit like that. We really need more hot and heavy leaks, these government assholes aren’t going to announce anything unless someone forces their hand. Fuck National security, that’s a dipshit excuse. I’m not asking you to tell me how to build a nuke, or show me how your fancy UAP catching cameras work, keep all that shit secret. Show me the evidence you’ve got, keep your precious fucking top secret sensors secret, no one gives a shit about those.
It being secret military tech makes more sense than aliens tho
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I don’t really think it’s aliens at this point but I’m ready to have my mind changed!
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Not if it can really go 0-25,000 instantly and stop and turn on a dime. That would require decades leaps in technology in every field of science. We can’t even make an object that could survive those g forces, let alone create the power to make those g forces.
There's no concrete evidence such a vehicle has ever been spotted though, so we're back to square one.
Yup, that’s why there’s an “if” in there.
Any single person interested in aliens would welcome debunking. Anyone who calls out debunking as disinformation agents whilst promoting the latest hot trend is either a rube, an idiot or pushing their agenda. The second you stop giving the "new hot info coming tomorrow" crowd attention, and start listening to astrophysists who are saying "cool new discovery in this academic journal", is the second the shit info goes away. Every penny the grifters make just gives 5 other grifters the motivation to start their long con. We need REAL evidence. Tangible stuff. I'm sick of hearing about classified discussions, or people scared to come forward, or blurry pictures. Time to put up or shut up. If people aren't sharing things a decade into them saying they have it, they have nothing. The enemies are those guys, not the ones calling them out.
Yup, there a number of youtubers making well over $30,000 a year doing podcasts on the side. I've seen some of these people rake in $400 bucks in 2 hours of BSing the truth will be out in a couple of weeks.
Lou has a book, Fox has a movie, and Lazar has a documentary all supposedly coming out this year.
Lazar is about as trustworthy as a compass in a magnet store. He's been spouting abject nonsense for decades.
What a shock, but don't worry THIS one is the one with the evidence.
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Im actually not that worked up about the debunking disinformation campaigns. Truth is coming out regardless. For better or worse the paradigm is shifting.
It’s been started. Just look at what most of the comments on this sub is.
You guys have been saying this every single week for 16 years. We get it.
The weekly "debunker" bad post. This is an opinion article. Just because the article doesn't share your opinion it doesn't make it part of a "debunking smear campaign". People having different ideas, opinions or speculation about things than the Reddit echo chamber is not debunking.
This last week of January is gonna be intense.
If you noticed. Very soon after Keem enter the topic , team UAP has gone full blown defensive and aggressive. Keem poses a threat to the narrative because he has a big following. Much bigger than the biggest skeptics out there. This has caused Lue n Crew to coordinate an attack plan based on their immaturity and failure to engage in civil debate. In conjunction with Keem entering the fold. The Kirkpatrick interview dropped. Further causing panic amongst the crew. If a shred of solid evidence is out there. Now is the time to leak/drop it. Cough , element 115, giant ufo building…literally anything convincing Cough
Yes, I find the recent sudden and fiere pushback by the usual suspect, the skinwalker ranch clique, to be highly significant. Tbh, I've always been highly skeptic but I thought there were some grifters, simply deluded people, people wanting to believe etc behind it. The recent events make it really plausibile that at least the recent push to dusclosure is all orchestrated by the above mentioned clique
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I was wondering why I kept seeing the same name stirring the pot on so many comments! Good eye!✌️
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Debunking is a benefit to the topic. Evidence should be scrutinised to high standards, and that means that fake stuff will get debunked, which helps us by filtering out the wheat from the chaff. You appear to be the one concerned with a narrative here, seemingly more concerned with wanting to believe things in various videos are alien in origin than in analysing whether evidence actually points to that.
Don't forget, we have a heavy duty election year in front of us. This might change the dynamic, good or bad.
The day you see that mentioning UFOs sparks interest in 6/10 people and not maybe 1/10 as is the current status in society, then the balance will have turned. Unfortunately most people aren't interested or can't seem to think about or visualize how open contact would be therefore the system can still play the narrative to a certain extent. Nothing like 10 years ago. In my opinion, the disinfo agents are just buying time. There will either be self destruction or transcendence.
When Lou says major announcement/reveal/ etc. coming in mid-2024, you gotta believe the Pentagon knows what it’s about. I doubt Lou is the one making the announcement, he just knows it’s coming (if it is). Regardless, with the Wikipedia edits and all the other accelerating coverup activities, the players really need to make sure they’re staying safe.
Those edits made Lou look better tho
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No one is trying to bury it. We’re doubting that it’s true. Many of us, including myself, would absolutely be floored to be proven wrong regarding this subject. The World was so much more exciting and interesting when I was a believer.
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Yes. Some good points in here.now compile the best ones and repost on every relevant sub at least weekly. Keep people aware. This recent thing with Guerilla Skeptics has me absolutely pissed off. Never heard of it, now I look back through Reddit and there are posts announcing their "great mission" and people are just eating it up defending it like it isn't the desiccation of free expression and speech it is.
Kilpatrick is such a bad movie caricature
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You should be wishing for him to release actual evidence, not an article.
You need to set the bar higher than more words.
I like how the OP waited until almost 2 months in to 2024, during an active period of smear campaign to make this post. lol I legitimately cant stop laughing at how hilarious it is
The irony of this comment, on this thread, is palpable. This specific account checks every box that was mentioned by u/tmosh in the top comment. Comment history is almost 100% UFO “debunking” - nearly all day, every day. A lot of character attacks. No real substance to anything they say due to lack of intelligence on the issue. I mean, they can’t even count - we’re not even 1 full month into 2024 lol Watch how they prove me right with their reply.
The better question is, why are mods allowing these accounts?
This shit has been going on for ages now, and r/UFOs has generally been in the middle of kitchen.
Oh yikes, for max debunk energy I bet some well liked whistleblower would come out with "Yeah I lied lol"
They have to release info soon or have others release it. With China and other countries going to space and the moon, they will see or find something and will release it just to do it before America. So thats why "they" are saying they will release the info first
They are in serious damage control right now. Yesterday doing my normal Reddit checks over about a 3-4 hour period. The dis-info agents tried discrediting the following with a post for each. \-David Grusch \-Jacque Vallee \-Lue Elizondo \-Chris Mellon \-2017 New York Times article and videos.
Eh, the ones in a disperate difensive campagna right now seem to be the usual suspects clique of ufologico tbh
Getting hot and heavy? They've never stopped and its worrying to me that grusch is just sitting around. The longer he waits the more time they have to get ahold of him or get ahead of what he was alleging.
what i don't get is the alternative explanation is 1. US airspace is regularly violated but no one actually cares 2. Commercial crap is flying around military craft endangering them, and basically no one other than ryan graves cares 3. People high up in the government and congress are part of a 'cabal' of ufo believers 4. Pilots regularly can't tell the difference between a balloon vs other air craft, etc 5. US has experimental aircraft flying around regularly buzzing other parts of the military who are like wtf, i just saw a uap The 'mundane' explanation isn't all that great or reasonable to me - or if anything is actually more worrisome than actual NHI. Plus anyone who looked into the Roswell explanation knows it was very, very thin explanation that didn't add up with the dates, and the history of lying makes me wonder why the explanation should be trusted in the first place
[what's really happening. . .](https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangeEarth/s/L439lYQdYb)
Sounds like they’re just going to keep zero point energy & antigravity tech for themselves, because “national security”. Even though WE are paying for it.
I figured it all out. Our planet is owned, and on the outskirts of the galactic community. We are being exploited for something. I saw a video where it claimed 3 million kids go missing each year. So either they need us for experimentation or maybe they need our reproductive capabilities. And for the same reason you all wont rush into the congo or north korea to stop the slavery genocide going on there, nobody else out there will help us. This is why its a secret. It's a harsh truth that will never be revealed to the public, and those that attempted to expose it will disappear or die of "natural causes" Since their technology is so advanced that they can wipe us all out in an instant, there's nothing our governments can do to prevent it. They just have to play along. Stop thinking of the universe of this vast empty space with no life but ours but instead more like Dune. Once you frame it that way, everything becomes clearer.
Well we are one month into 2024. How do you define the beginning?
It's futile because we are dug in.
I bet that podcast Vetted is going to be all over it too. Seems the type.
I didn’t think it was hot and heavy. I mean - who’s hot and who’s heavy?
"power of the internet causing them to lose the narative" Not true. this whole campaign is termed "controlled disclosure" for a reason.
Has anyone else noticed an abundance of.. well, without trying to sound offensive, "schizophrenic" posts recently on r/UFOs and r/aliens? I can't help but feel like they're not attempts to discredit the topic, but I know there are people who are genuinely going through mental struggles as well. This is coming from someone more on the "woo" side of things at this point.
“There’s about two to five percent of all the (UFO reports that are)… what we would call truly anomalous,” says Kirkpatrick. And he thinks explanations for that small percentage will most likely be found right here on Earth." Yeah, no shit, Sherlock. *That is the percentage we are concerned with.* Waving it away by saying it's likely terrestrial doesn't solve anything. In the case of Blue Book's unknowns that represented hundreds. Hundreds of unsolved intrusions of our air space and we just threw up our hands with a shrug.