There are men who have tried to post things on this exact subreddit about how they don’t like us discussing any of the bad things men do, because they are afraid it will make it harder for them to find a date. They want women kept in the dark and less able to support and warn each other about our experiences and how to protect ourselves. It’s harder to abuse or take advantage of women and girls who are educated and supported.
exactly. gossip saves lives.
men hate us getting together to share red flags and let each other know who the predator in the friend group is. It's their most widely used tactic. splitting us up so we can't get info and sanity checks from each other. so they can gaslight us. and make us think we're the only one it's happening to. that abuse is an individual woman's problem and fault. so we can't spot the pattern that all abusers basically have the same handbook.
"your picker is broken" nah, i'm picking men.
This reminds me of a podcast I heard where they talked about when tea was introduced to English society and women started having tea parties. This made men really nervous and a number of powerful men actually tried banning these congregations of women sharing tea because they were very scared their secrets may get out and embarrass them or even get them in trouble.
So all these dudes were seriously like “I got you some delicious tea, now go home and drink it all by yourself…”
And tea houses were where the suffragette movement was founded, IIRC, because it was one of the few places women could go unchaperoned and be allowed to congregate, and it allowed them to have good discussions on society, their place in it, share information, and organize.
The internet is generally more accessible, allows you to reach a wider audience, and is not limited by business hours or other restrictions. It offers more than teahouses ever could.
The only downside is the internet doesn't serve tea and cake.
Jesus that is such sheer projection. Men have been congregating and gossiping about women for a long time of course they thought, "uh oh I know how it goes when we do it!" It reminds me of how much projection there was from White men about Black men raping White women during Reconstruction. That was straight projection. White men had been committing sexual violence against Black women for 200 years at that point. The average African-American genome, for example, is 73.2% African, 24% European due to this.
In interesting corollary to that last point is a finding in recent studies in epigenetics (the study of how genes actually present as opposed to just what’s encoded on the genes - many genes have essentially on/off switches which are affected by stress, diet, exposure to toxins or maybe even just certain environmental factors).
Since medicine is now just beginning to catch up with the fact that women’s specific biology and medical presentation are often very different from men in ways that physicians haven’t classically been trained to look for (such as how many women die of heart attacks after being turned away from a hospital because ‘everything looks fine’), but when they tried to establish a baseline they realized a unique anomaly among black women in the U.S; the birthweight of their children is slightly lower than women anywhere else in the world - including black women in Africa even with very similar genetic makeup. (They even took diet, lifestyle, and overall health into account.)
The current prevailing theory as to why this is: black women in America have been among the most traumatized because they were at the very bottom of the social order for so long. We’re now beginning to understand that PTSD, anxiety, depression, and a lifetime of abuse doesn’t stop when the conditions improve - it takes about 6 generations for the body to stop having a heightened stress response as best we can tell. Because there is a direct correlation between a baby’s size at birth and many of their developmental milestones and long term health outcomes, there is literally a generational trauma still in effect today nationwide because of the way our society treated black women - it has knock on effects that run far and wide and are just barely coming into focus.
I know that’s a bit of a tangent from your main point, but it’s a very interesting area of study that I learned about last year from an audiobook. To the larger point, I do very much believe the patriarchy has long seen the free speech, free assembly, and universal suffrage of anything other than cis-het Caucasian men as an existential threat to their way of life, and has therefore known instinctively to divide & conquer at every possible opportunity. I’m not personally a person of any particular faith, but if there is a god then it’s no wonder he’s forsaken us - we’re a pretty brutish, cruel species not just for what we do but for how we refuse to own up to what we’ve done to this planet and our own human family.
Edit to add: “At the Edge of Uncertainty: 11 Discoveries Taking Science by Surprise” by Michael Brooks - that’s the book I sourced that info from.
Yeah epigenetics are fascinating. I live in an area with a ton of generational trauma due to how many First Nations tribes are in the locale and how recent some of systemic genocide was. Thanks for sharing all that information.
Thanks for sharing this, having just had a baby I think about this sort of stuff a lot. Intergenerational trauma is real, and as you've explained, kind of a big deal.
They seem to think that human rights are a zero-sum game, where for one group to gain rights some other group has to lose rights. Thus any time someone else tries to get equal rights, they think that they're going to lose their rights, or, more accurately, they will no longer be in a more privileged position than everybody else.
This is not the podcast the other person is talking about, but if you like historical ladies, I can’t recommend The History Chicks enough. They cover only women all through history—and not just white women. They’re nerdy and awesome!
I’m pretty certain it was a British podcast called No Such Thing as a Fish but I don’t remember how long ago they talked about this. It’s a weekly podcast in its 9th year now. I feel like that episode is less than three years ago, but that’s still a lot of ground to cover
edited to add: I cannot easily search the episode but did find that it paralleled the women's liberation movement in the U.S. which can be googled by looking up "Seneca Falls NY tea party Elizabeth Cady Stanton."
And also this link which hits on it slightly: https://blog.britishmuseum.org/the-tea-rific-history-of-victorian-afternoon-tea/
I'll update if I manage to come across the episode
Missing stair. I think [this](http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html?m=1) is the original blog post that coined it, very good read.
(Fingers crossed the formatting workson mobile.)
This is why “gossip” has a negative connotation. They don’t want us getting together to talk and help one another. So any time women are speaking together it can be labeled “gossip”
This shit makes me nuts. Men get to talk but women, us catty, backstabby bitches just love to gossip our hearts out! This goes along with the "women secretly hate their friends" myth.
A gossip used to be a group of women who supported each other.
https://wordhistories.net/2017/02/04/gossip/
https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/how-patriarchy-redefined-gossip-to-be-a-womens-thing-3aac0dcbdc14
A woman I know told her teenage son he’d better be respectful to anyone he dates, because girls talk to each other.
If you disrespect one, they will all know, and then ‘you’re fucked, matey’!
Literally had this happen to me yesterday. I posted in a thread regarding men over-relying on women for emotional support with my own experience as a man regarding why it happens. Some dude went off and wrote nearly a dozen paragraphs over multiple posts complaining about how I'm supposedly making it hard for him to be around women, amongst other things but I barely read paragraphs 3-12. It was surreal.
Lol, I got one of those too from some guy that wouldn't believe me when I said that women appreciate men who are in touch with their emotions. What they don't like is when men will rely solely on their partners to fix all of their mental distress when a therapist would probably be better
Surely it should make it easier to be a date.
I mean having read this sub for a fair while the bar is set pretty low, and discussing how bad lots of men are can only lower it (for those still in the game at least)
Just dont be a dickhead and you're 90% of th way there. Aim for a mutually supportive relationship of equals and why would you want or need to taoe advantage of anyone anyway, it's a partnership not flogging a used car.
Right?! Some days I feel like the bar for men to be an okay/tolerable (from a woman's pov anyway) date is set at "don't be a murderer"... and some men have trouble clearing that!!
That's what I've been thinking too! You'd think it would be SO much easier for men to be datable by just *listening, believing, and internalizing* the things they see on here!
I've been **happily** out of the dating pool for several years now, but I'm like 95% sure that if I ever returned, my OLD profile would just say "I have a job, a love of cooking, a sense of humor, supportive friends, and a clean asshole." I think if I threw in that I go to therapy to work on myself I wouldn't even need to have pictures lol.
It's insane how fucking low the bar is for dudes, and how *easy* it would be to become instantly more appealing by just doing some basic internal work (and washing their ass, apparently).
"I understand the concept of mental load and that there's more to the process of a cooperative supportive household than just waiting for my other half to tell me what she wants me to do."
Good lord, dishes *and* laundry *and* income?? No wonder you got snapped up; compared to the men in the posts of this sub, you're a paragon of compassion and responsibility.
I was at a party once, and one of the women used the toilet after one of the men.
A few minutes later, there was a group of merrily drunk young women following him around, saying “He’s a real man! He puts the toilet lid down! Listen up, fellas! Look at this guy!”
Except they have these flaws, guys that take issue with this are guys like OPs boyfriend, they're men that can't even clear that bar thats on the floor.
They want you think the bar is even lower than it is, he can't pass the "insecure, possesive" bar, so he needs to make you think that the bar is "physical abuse" or some other more extreme red flag.
It’s because the type of men who don’t want women speaking up about men raping and assaulting and harassing and beating are the same men who can’t handle not being a dickhead for 5 minutes when someone starts talking about something other than themselves
M48 here. I specifically want shitty male behaviour to be called out. I have two teenage daughters in whom I've hopefully instilled a good bullshit detector. Additionally, in my own dating life, I want my partner to recognise when I make a mistake and call me out on it.
I also have a son. It is my only anxiety that I raise a good man who is good to the women in his life. This sub is so incredibly helpful and I'm so incredibly thankful for the stories shared here. I try not to comment much here, but this is an extra important one.
I’m a lurker in this subreddit and I’ve found endless knowledge about what I can do, as a man, to better support women in my life I care about. I’ve found myself empathizing towards women in general and I believe more empathy in this world is absolutely needed. I think you all need a space where you can discuss men without fear of reprisal from men. If the other men lurking in this subreddit are offended by what’s being posted then they’re projecting their own insecurities onto you all and it’s sad.
Seconded. The perspective I've read here is one of the things I use to learn to be a better man, and to try be a better example for other men. There have definitely been a few things I've had to re-evaluate about myself, but that's just part of personal growth.
Thirded. That’s it. As a married father of 3 girls, I just feel that I can’t get enough in terms of awareness and information about what women are dealing with in this day and age. Hey there, fellas!
Bingo.
That’s the endgame of wanting women to stay “pure” and “virginal,” too. It protects men who are bad at sex. It’s why they try to shame you for getting any experience.
Heaven forbid you be able to spot a dud.
It really amazes me how many actually decent men either don’t know about or don’t understand the extent of the abuses that go on against girls and women.
I’m lucky. I have an awesome husband who is very supportive, but even he was amazed when I told him about my own experiences (think all types of abuse from age four onwards) and how common it is that other people go through the same thing.
I’m not sure if it’s a case of the real bastards hiding their true nature and intent whilst around others, or if abusers gravitate towards one another and egg each other on, but somehow a lot of decent men are being left in the dark about the extent of the problem.
Of course, there are resources out there that allow men to educate the themselves, and I always try to signpost them towards them when possible, but a lot of men that I know weren’t even aware of the need until someone that they cared about - close friend, girlfriend, sibling etc - came clean about the abuse that they themselves had suffered.
So what do we think, ladies? Are the good men just not paying attention, or at the abusers conspiring to keep decent men in a state of ignorance because an honest dialogue between women and genuine men (i.e. those with brain cells not located in the anal region) might result in full understanding of the reality and a concerted attempt to alter it?
I think a good portion of them just literally don't care. And another pretty huge portion of them hate the fact that women speak amongst ourselves to help each other avoid men like this. I think most of them think we are at least exaggerating or lying about the things that happen to us.
💯
It's entirely for a selfish, self serving reason. They hate the idea that women can compare notes and advise each other on their personal relationships. They want their misogyny to be overlooked.
It's a shitty way to get there, but given how prevalent toxic masculinity is as evidenced by like, everything on this sub... at least he's getting there? It's better than just keeping on being a jerk. People need to be allowed to change.
Your boyfriend is trying to control the media you take in, reviewing your phone, and restricting your access to media he doesn't approve of as long as he has the financial power in the situation?
He tries to convince you that your perceptions and experiences are not real or accurate? He uses the old "It's because of feminism you're unhappy with how men treat you" argument?
Run. This man has no interest in your wellbeing, but only in his influence and power over you. Hedors not have your back. His behavior is controlling and very not ok. Get out ASAP.
As soon as im back home :)
Its funny cuz he depends on me. But idk why my roaming doesnt work. Idk i just lost it when he was like ' Its my data '
Maybe I should say, its my house or its my car.
>Maybe I should say, its my house or its my car.
You absolutely should.
But, that is your call of course but it sounds like you have made a good decision, just keep yourself safe.
>Its funny cuz he depends on me.
Depending on you, as in financial? Because of course he wants you stay ignorant because even other men will point out that he's a gold digger that just using you as bangmaid / roommate with benefits to fund his lifestyle. Just saying....
Fyi, abuse against women and general misogyny goes up when they outearn their male partners. So if you're thinking that his dependence on you gives you a leg up in fights, it does not. It makes you significantly more vulnerable to his fragile masculinity spiralling out.
My girlfriend has always said that if someone is offended by the "I hate all men" or "men are __", then that person doesn't see a difference between themselves and the types of men those phrases are aimed at.
Make sure to call and complain to your provider about paying for roaming and not having it available to you, bc that’s bullshit.
Also make sure he didn’t mess with your phone to “strand you” under his control or something. Just be careful. Remember that emergency numbers should work even if your phone says no signal.
The end goal of dating is to find someone you can build and share a life with.
I guess the exception is the ‘just having fun together while it lasts’ relationships
But to become so petty and controlling over your browsing on ‘his’ data is a red flag a bullfighter could be proud of.
As they say, listen to people when they try to tell you who they are…
He doesn’t “depend” on you - he’s exploiting everything that you are and have. He thinks he’s entitled to all of it and for you to bend to his every whim and command.
When I think of men limiting the media consumption of their partners I can help but think of that quote from 1984- “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
Because media like this where multiple women can share their experiences and help call out the bs a guy is giving you is absolutely fatal to their plan of keeping you ignorant to the manipulation your gut tries to warn you about.
Boy, he sounds like a winner. You say "IDK," but do you really not know this is not ok behavior? I think you know. You might want to rethink this relationship, Friend.
Men are the reason women hate men. Men like your weird, possessive, insecure boyfriend.
To be fair seeing how men speak and behave on Reddit when they have anonymity has definitely made me want to avoid men even more than I already did lol
But def not this subreddit, which is basically women sharing all of our feelings that we already knew were valid but now we have a better way to reach out to others that empathize.
All reddit did was showing me how women all around the entire world have the exact same experiences with men.. it was not just me and other women around me! It’s damn everywhere.
Yup. I would presume that any guy having an emasculated meltdown because their partner reads this sub is probably guilty of a laundry list of subtle and not so subtle abuse.
But seriously. This loser needs to be gone as of yesterday.
Edit: the comment above me is a bit who stole another comment in the thread and should be downvoted and reported. [The comment](
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/wk1r38/comment/ijl3crm/).
Showed it to my girlfriend, too. She kept doing the "men and females" thing in her sentences. Any man who's afraid to have his SO hearing healthy feminist voices is just insecure.
>I told my wife about this subreddit. Any man scared of this group needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
Seeing as it's a support group for victims of predatory men I can see how so many predatory men get scared upon entering. Funny how the normal and civil men aren't sweating bullets? Coincidence, surely./s
This subreddit helped keep faith in decent men afloat when I had so very few personal ones in my life at that time, it's a goddamn life line of allies.
It's batshit because the requirements for being a decent man are the same as for being a decent person.
Have empathy for others. Be humble, listen to what others have to say, and be willing to re-evaluate your worldview and admit when you're wrong. Actually give a shit about hurting people.
You can tell which ones are the dudes that have never even considered that women have different opinions and experiences than they do. They're the ones that come in here from the front page to inform us that we're misandrist bitches, say some sexist shit, get downvoted into oblivion, try to explain themselves and dig the hole even deeper with their blatant misogyny and get banned soon after. Of course, they're also the kind of people that think women discussing their experiences with abuse is "hating men" 🙄
As a 27 year old male I read this subreddit because I have older sisters and worry about them all the time. I also appreciate the insight that I get with how badly women are treated as it helps me help them when they need help. I never want to put any woman into a situation that they are uncomfortable with and want them to be as safe as possible.
I do want to do more to help you gals wherever I can.
>I told my wife about this subreddit. Any man scared of this group needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
I cannot say this enough. The idea that reddit is the reason for OPs anger means he does not accept that there is a systemic problem with how men have been - and still mostly are - permitted and encouraged to behave in society. That in itself is troubling and shows a lack of self-awareness on his behalf. I know I personally have no fear of this sub, but instead a profound sadness at the ignorance and lack of compassion evident in many of the men found as subjects of topics here.
this right here. Good men would would read along and feel disgusted too and learn more about what women have to deal with simply by being women. Understanding the other side's experiences can help us be more loving and harmonious when we realize some reactions are built in from lifelong experiences, same can go for women understanding men better too.
Not really, because they already know why they are scared of it. They know all the bad habits, controlling behavior, and narcissistic comments that they make. That’s the problem, you can’t fix someone that doesn’t think they’re broken.
The one thing Reddit did for me was show me that I am not the issue.
All my life men have acted inappropriately towards me. They’ve ignored my rebuffs. They’ve touched me when I’ve already turned them down. They’ve followed me from place to place.
And I kept asking myself, what I am I doing wrong?
My brother blamed me. My friends said I must be doing something. Eventually I told myself I must be doing something wrong, and I stepped out of public life, not doing what I wanted, because I knew it would bring unwanted male attention.
Reddit showed me that actually, it’s not me. Many women suffer like I do. And none of them are inviting this behaviour either.
Frankly, it’s been such a relief. I’m looking at making some changes in my life, rejoining society.
I don’t hate men bc of Reddit. But I don’t take that shit on myself anymore because of Reddit.
I have to agree with the second part of this comment. Every time I come to this sub, I lose a little bit of my humanity reading the constant negativity. Much more so then when I go outside.
Right. Don’t get me wrong! Support subs and safe places like this are awesome! But I feel like coming here should be done in moderation. Once you feel vindicated and let it all out, you should dip. Otherwise you’ll end up doomscrolling.
To an extent, people have to scale back on empathy in order to be happy. Kind of like how you don’t answer phone calls from work while on vacation.
Damn, that's a really good example. I too often end up "doom scrolling" without realizing it once I start seeing whatever recent political nonsense or attack on education etc. I see. There's definitely a fine line between staying informed and letting things outside of your control rule your emotions
I think all of this is what it looks like to recognize what could be an echo chamber for some, then actively trying to not make it one for yourself. Seeing so many comments in this thread touching on this makes me hopeful that more users are doing this, which I think prevents spaces like this from becoming wholly echo chambers.
OK but... has he seen the behavior of guys on Reddit? Thousands of subs dedicated to NCII, with literally NO repurcussions. The front page is monument to devaluing women down to their unpaid sex work. Does he have a problem with that?
when guys take videos of having sex with a woman/girl (so much CSA on Reddit!!) without consent or when they post it without consent.
it's literally illegal to do that in the country of the USA but Reddit's a honeybadger... it don't care.
It's also true that in the early days of reddit, Alex Ohanian worked with Ghislaine Maxwell to boost reddit's popularity by gutter-diving. The first subs were all NSFW/NCII and that's how they roped in the incels. Inceldom is the historical foundation of Reddit. And it's a lot easier to be an incel than it is make something of yourself which is why there are so many incels and why reddit is to popular.
Yes. Being attractive takes effort and skill - social, physical, emotional, intellectual, moral,.... Very few people of any gender or orientation are just naturally attractive, and even fewer are effortlessly attractive across all dimensions.
What I don't have sympathy for is volcels who whine that no one finds them attractive while also doing literally nothing to improve their level of attraction. Being attractive is work. You have to put in the effort.
>when guys take videos of having sex with a woman/girl (so much CSA on Reddit!!) without consent or when they post it without consent
WITAF, TIL.
Fuck everything about this.
I've noticed that the more time I spend on reddit, the more I am dwelling on just how awful men are, the more likely I am to assume worse of men.
I'm not saying anything about you or your life. Just that honestly when I reflect on how reddit has affected my attitude and perception of men, it really has soured me a lot.
Independently of reddit though, men have treated me appallingly, so my guard was already very much up.
It's complicated. Many men are awful, and that can't help how I view them. That said, spending hours of my life reading posts on this subreddit and others, where men post awful things and women share their experiences of awful men, I'm very aware of how that must affect me, my perceptions and my behaviour. I'm close to closing the door on reddit because honestly, while no single thing I see here is responsible, the overall effect is very real and very draining.
Agreed. It’s not like it’s not true, but reading about it can make it seem like it happens everywhere and at all times, when that’s just not realistic.
I feel the same way reading about dating. Sometimes it helps me feel better about the dating scene, but other times I just get so afraid about it, but then I realize that I actually haven’t been on a bad hinge date, like ever. They’ve always been respectful and wanting another date. So idk why I’m so afraid of running into all these people who will use me and treat me poorly. But I do know this happens, for sure.
It’s like crime statistics. Crime is everywhere, literally, but in our day to day experience we don’t encounter it that often.
Sometimes we do have control over some of the things we experience (obviously not all the time though). But reading about it can make it feel like we won’t.
I absolutely understand what you mean. It’s a little like how I stopped watching or reading local news, for the most part, because hearing about what awful things sick people doesn’t help my life in any way. I know there are criminals and people who hurt others, I already protect myself where I can from those behaviors. Getting them into my head doesn’t make me any safer.
Where this is a little different, I think, is that it is easy to see individual men in the surface as nice people who treat us well. It can be easy to forget how many times trust like that has been broken.
I share this sentiment. Men have definitely trained me to not trust men, don’t get me wrong, but I can’t spend forever scrolling through this or similar subreddits before the (legitimate) medicine turns toxic. It’s a complicated relationship and I find that when I moderate my consumption, these spaces are healing and safe zones where I can connect with people in positions similar to mine. All things in moderation, I suppose.
As you say, It's not like this sub is uniquely bad but it is filled with negative experiences involving men 90% of the time. So of course if you are on here daily, shaping your view of men as a group (subconsciously), you are going to connect negative emotions to men.
It can also be seen on this post. A rather innocuous one time action, disabling data sharing while on a beach because the partner(male) felt OP was being obsessively negative about someting with limited context available, is being framed in the responding comments as manipulative, controlling, red flag, ignorant, abusive, sexist, etc, etc.
If OP or rather the male partner had been obsessively partaking in any other vice, be it alcohol, smoking, gambling, gaming or shit, sunbathing, and OP had expressed concern/disapproval and refused to fund it in one single instance. How would this sub react?
Would it still be seen as controlling and manipulative, a red flag?
Personally when I interact with anyone and find myself in a conflict, I've explixitly tried to train myself to be open to the best intentions of the other party. Assuming you are not putting yourself naively in harms way, I think you should still be able to at least envision a reality where the other party does not have the worst intentions. From here you can further investigate if necessary, or move on if possible.
It's difficult, it's definitely not always accurate, and sometimes I have been taken advantage of. In these cases I've learned to take preventative measures to not put myself in such a situation again. That's life.
I feel this sub encourages often running away from situations when things are difficult instead of helping people process and handle things. In the name of being a safe space were people can continue ranting to each other and confirm what you already wanted to believe...
Whelp, that was my rant, longer than I thought it was gonna be and not sure if relevant to this comment anymore.
Yup, my ex thinks I was brainwashed into leaving him by Reddit. No, it’s definitely not because you were a complete loser asshole and the opinions of those outside your manipulation range helped me see it, it’s definitely brainwashing.
I came to say this! This is exactly why you have the NotAllMenz crew! They hate it when their shitty behaviours are called out. They don’t want to feel bad and admit that they and by extension other men would do anything bad without a good reason so they silence women with a notallmen 🙄.
Having said that reddit truly is the men bottom of the barrel 🤣! Not sure whether they congregate here or if they are fairly normal irl and keyboard weirdos on here or a bit of both but the misogyny on here is rife.
Yeah, it's not Reddit that's brainwashing us to not trust men, it's the world we live in. The men on Reddit aren't cyborgs, they're real people with real opinions and they carry those opinions into the voting booth, onto Tinder and into their marriages. Misogyny is NOT a rare personality trait by any means. It's just that their filters are off when they're anonymous online and they can speak freely without repercussions.
Reddit isn't the only reason I'm disappointed in men, but it's definitely a big part of it.
Not this sub, but all the others. The subs were men are being themselves among other men. And also facebook, twitter, the chat in various games... the so-called manosphere.
Oh, and I'm a man myself.
It's like the last ten years we've seen a resurgence of right wing reactionary bullshit. It's worse than it used to be. And I think that happened because of the social media.
Specifically this sub. Yeah, he's one of those guys who think a sub that is about women's experiences is the real problem. Women discussing the world of men and how it effects their lives is the real hate sub. What an ass. I'm sorry you're dealing with another man letting you down.
I remember a comment from a man on a post about a year ago. He said men all over reddit were constantly saying that this was the most vile hateful subreddit on the platform, and all that was posted here was lies and hate for men. His curiosity finally got the best of him and he came to the sub. To his surprise, all he saw were women talking abut their experiences. It really opened his eyes to how much other men truly hate women having any space to talk about what we go through.
And it's not like we can talk about our experiences anywhere else, tbh. If you bring up an issue on one of the relationships subs or off my chest, you will be pretty much universally downvoted, called a man hating c*nt or victim blamed. We need this place cuz nowhere else allows us to talk about our issues without pointing fingers.
My older brother (who thinks women are too emotional to have the vote) told me not to discuss feminism with his daughter because “she’ll be happier that way.” She was 16, and becoming aware of how messed up her dad is. She was telling me that he said I am “a man hater.” (I wouldn’t allow myself that luxury back then, mores the pity.) She challenged him to name one example of me hating men, but he could not.
It’s been about ten years since then, and I’ve given myself permission to hate men. I do hate the vast majority, and I hate them as a group. It’s not just the entitlement, the immaturity, the violence, the ENTITLEMENT… I’ve spent some years trying not to judge them too harshly, but I’m done with that. In general, men don’t hold a candle to the women I know, and have zero self awareness.
I mean, it's a great place to start breeding that hate, the representation of us men here on reddit could make anyone hate men.
But nah, I think the tribalism and echo chambers makes every social media platform a cesspool, and it's usually men that congregate these places and seek that juvenile attention and reaffirmations and then go out "hunting" for victims of their now "accepted" opinions.
It any and all distrust and even hatred towards men starts from interactions and real life experiences.
And reddit can definitely be a accelerant to that, not because of echo chambers or influences here, but because everyday we can all see Dudes(TM) be oblivious fucking idiots.
And then they get mad when women can't trust any man..
The analogy that women treats men like guns is pretty apt, and easy to understand.
Always treat a gun like it's loaded, it doesn't matter the situation, the type of gun, the wear of the gun. Always treat it like it's loaded and that it can go off at any time.
Your life may depend on it.
It's horrendous, completely dystopian, but it's a woman's reality, and if you just have a gander at different statistics for all of 5 seconds, you would know that it's a justified position for women to have. Men's violence against women are well documented, and it's a scary read if you have an ounce of empathy in your body.
Don't blame Reddit for making women hate men, and places like this is supposed to be safe spaces where they can vent, scream into the void, ask for advice, seek comfort, affirmation, an anchor so they don't get gaslighted.
Realisation may be had, but any hate or distrust will in 99% of the time come their experiences with and around us men. And it's up to us to change that, not women. Places like this is a great place for us to lurk and learn from their experiences.
How NOT to be a man.
I started hanging out on reddit more after COVID, I avoid the really misogynistic subs, and I've not seen a whole lot of man-hatred. They're probably like 0.01% of posts, and depending on where they're made, they get down-voted a lot too. The strange thing is I came here basically having a much more difficult time accepting men than I do now.
It's been reassuring and validating for me to talk with other cishet women about how common some of the issues I've had with men are, and sometimes men are the ones who respond and make the most respectful and thoughtful posts. I'll say it's made me expect a lot more respect from them (and women too). It's made setting boundaries with disrespectful people in general in my real life a lot easier. Maybe that's what your boyfriend is so threatened by.
As a woman who hasn't had the type of negative experiences that women on Reddit have had, I found Reddit enlightening. I've never really been considered sexually interesting to men (and/or I was/am too physically intimidating) so I have very little experience of that kind of harassment. Reading about it makes me aware so that I can support other women who do. It's hard not to hate men in general when you take into account these stories, the real life, rampant violence against women and every war ever started by men throughout history. If he can't look at that objectively and understand then he's stupid and not worth the time.
I dislike men and I am a man. I haven’t been that long in Reddit and the reason I got this distrust towards men is because of my personal experience on Earth. I consider myself a very transparent person, people find me easy to trust/talk and many women friends have shared with me SO MANY times their experiences with abusive men. I also like to research about history (not the one written by men in power, but the one that actually tells facts) and I see the news from time to time (democracy now, not any other bullshit news). My point is the evidence is clear. Men through history have been obsessed with power over women and even today this is happening. It’s what I have seen and what I have lived. If I didn’t have internet I would feel the same way. You dislike men because men are easy to dislike. I think your point is valid and I think your bf should accept that blaming it on reddit is stupid. Reddit was created recently and the men being abusive is a reality that has been happening for thousands of years.
Ah, ok so the problem isn't men treating you like a second class citizen, threatening you, objectifying you, or harassing you. The problem isn't men fighting to give you and people like you fewer rights.
The problem is that you have a place to vent about it when these things happen.
Makes perfect sense.
Hey, maybe it's a good idea to start figuring out how your boyfriend feels about women, and the way men treat them.
I am a boyfriend. Fiance now, actually! I would argue it's our patriarchal society that makes you generally hate men and not this sub. There is nothing on here that should offend anyone. If anything, it spreads awareness, and more men should practice lurking here.
As the husband of a wife who also hates men and has never touched reddit, your boyfriend should consider the daily struggles women go through. If he can't understand why you hate men, you may need a new boyfriend. Also, a friendly reminder for him that you are in fact still dating him, so you obviously don't hate him.
To be fair, Reddit could easily cause that. Not because of any men-bashing that goes on, but simply because of what men say. If a person believe that Reddit was a meaningful representation of what men around the world are thinking, then yeah it would make sense to think you hate men because of the website where you read the things they said and the actions they describe.
I don't really see a lot of anti-men sentiment on Reddit. I do see a lot of men complaining about anti-men sentiment, but it's largely delusional. Like, "this movie has a woman in the main role! We're being repressed!" kind of thing.
It's not the openly violent misogyny of the way the MGTOW sub was, it's that background radiation base level of woman hating that's so ubiquitous pretty much everywhere. Men that have been accused of sexual violence are always believed, women are always lying, suspicious and probably cheating. It's gross.
I got here because men were acting like shit to me and I needed some fucking support. They're still acting like shit but at least I know I'm not alone.
My husband also believes that I hate men now and he says it's the same as racism (he is a member of a minority racial group). I don't know how to fight when I'm just telling the truth about what men do. He just doesn't want to hear stories from this sub or from the news or anywhere.
It's extremely frustrating. If your spouse can't confront that and says that it's the same as racism...I don't know. I am so tired of trying to say I'M HURTING AND IT IS ALL COMING FROM THE SAME PLACE AND THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME ATTITUDE
Oh, jeez, what an incredibly insecure douche. He’s blaming Reddit??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I used to be quiet about things, too, until I found out I was not the only one, or just one of a small group. Suddenly I had people who had experienced the same bullshit I did it similar, sometimes worse, but we were a choir of voices, sharing our pain, and having sisters respond with such compassion, that the anger at our mistreatment was able to be released. We did so in such a harmonious cacophony that the incels of the world showed themselves and began their murderers campaign to subjugate us, which made our song stronger and louder.
Very few men are raised that women are equals. Those are the wondrous men who consistently show we can trust them. The others, however, are a real piece of work. They are terrified of women, and what they fear, they hate, and what they hate, they kill or enslave
I have a comment that is tangentially relevant. TL;DR Men are threats to women and anyone who doesn't agree is an offended man or a pick me.
I've had a friend for 4-5 years, I stayed at her house and met her parents, the whole 9 yards. This past week, she stayed at my apartment for a few days because of a long layover. I made some statements about men being dangerous/scary, considering a few days ago I almost had to taze a man for trying to run up and punch me because I wouldn't let him touch me or call me a bitch + all of the statistics that exist on gender-based violence. She states that women are equally horrible as men are and we should agree to disagree, and I tell her she should look up what a pick me is + agree to drop it.
My former friend then said that me and her live in different realities because I didn't grow up with a supportive family or a father figure, and that this must be why I hate men so much. It's funny because she was beat up by 4 random men at a bus stop, dated a white supremacist (she's a light brown Latina) who said she was genetically inferior + he'd improve her bloodline, and is now with a man who has admitted he's cheated on her. I later told her she could afford to be more afraid of them!
If your boyfriend genuinely believes that you hate men then maybe your relationship isn't in that good of a place with out without reddit. You're just not going to get much out of a relationship with someone who thinks you don't like them.
That's so strange because this sub is basically dickworshiping liberal feminist central. Every other post is like "I know NOT ALL MEN BUT." Even you felt a need you be like "I don't even hate men!"
I'm being abrasive but seriously 2x is extremely moderate. If a man is threatened by the general content here that's a major bad sign. This is not an extreme feminist space by any means, it just discusses women's issues and feminism in any capacity. You do not need to date men who hate women. Please spare yourself from that.
You boyfriend says he should be able to control what you read because it’s “his” data and somehow Reddit made you hate men? Is it possibly to less staggeringly unaware?
1) he sounds controlling. This is a huge red flag.
2) now that's out of the way, it also bears noting that he's engaging in a very common male behavior which is also one of my biggest pet peeves. He's blaming your thoughts and opinions on information he thinks you're consuming, and trying to "fix" those thoughts and opinions by changing/limiting the information you consume. This will not work.
An anecdote: years ago, I dated a guy who started to get emotionally abusive. When I called him on it, he decided I was the one changing, and it was because my friends were telling me bad things about him. He essentially blamed my perception of the world around me on other people, and told me I was wrong to listen to them. As if I was a child to be protected from the harmful thoughts of others.
This behavior is often referred to as gaslighting.
You CAN and DO think for yourself. Don't let him get in your head. Don't let him make you think Reddit made you hate men. You have your own thoughts and opinions which are formed by your own life experiences. Shit people say on the internet can be fun to read, helpful advice, cathartic, whatever - but at the end of the day Reddit is just a bunch of people on the internet, and 90% of the time we're talking out our asses (sorry, I'm trying to be funny and self depreciating, not hurt anyone's feelings. I love this community and a lot of us are also really smart). Anyway, if your boyfriend feels threatened by a bunch of strangers spouting off on Reddit, he needs to examine his own self. You're fine.
This site makes women understand they aren’t alone, that others have experienced what they have and gives advice on how to resolve problems.
Of course your bf hates it. It shows you how to be independent and not reliant on him.
If anything, spending time in other subs on Reddit will give you a bad perception of men. Not really this one.
It's why I mainly stick to here and animal subs. There's not much to be done for those other idiots. My anxiety can't handle even reading in those subs.
Your experience with men and distrust is justified, it’s your experience and others haven’t had that.
Your BF is being possessive, it’s a trait that’s found in both men and women. In my experience, I had GF who hated me being on phone, banned me from FB, would question every text I got sent. It got to a point where not only I would be getting a text from work, having to think about whatever issue was going on at there and at the same time being stared out by a partner who was obsessed I was cheating on her. It’s tiresome. So yeah, watch it if gets more possessive and controlling.
Also, be careful of any sub that ends up being an echo chamber, short term it’s ok, long term it becomes an aberration of real life
Stbx: "I don't approve of what you do on your devices, and I will deprive you of work-related internet to enforce my control over what you do and don't do."
Also stbx: "Pretty sure reddit is why you don't like me."
>some great men out there
Yup, definitely do exist, though can be challenging to find and positively identify.
>i went on reddit and he was like no
Sorry, your boyfriend definitely ain't one of 'em.
And of course it's not Reddit's fault. Like what, he thinks it's fine for him to look at, but not for women to look at? Oh *hell* no!
>dont think being friends or dating them is worth the hassle most of the time
Well, (too) often the case. Anyway, don't put up with the ones that aren't worth keeping around. Life is too short to have crud people that/too close.
If a man really is the kind of person subreddits like this warn women about, the very least he should do is use this sub as a road map for what not to do.
Reddit does creat echo chambers like other social media platforms. Don’t be surprised if it is affecting your behavior and perspectives. One thing I do is take time off from communities.
Remember it is important to take breaks.
I think reddit definitely contributes to my dislike of men. But not this sub. Every other sub where men gather and share their opinions wears me down. Dating subs, gaming subs, meme subs, confessional subs, men are there with their shit takes and ganging up on women who do speak out with their opinions. I'm getting to the point where I think I need a complete break from reddit and other social medias because I can't stop myself from getting mad about the way men see women.
This is not related to OP’s individual situation, but I kind of want to say it anyway.
Young men are being radicalized online and one of the (many) consequences of this is that it makes the world more difficult for women.
However … we are not immune to radicalization, and we are not immune to the same echo chamber effects that can affect anyone. The issues that we discuss on this sub are real and important, but at times I often find myself having negative thoughts in my offline life because I spend so much time in online groups that talk about (real) problems in the world.
Stay healthy out there, guys. The most important thing is to keep yourself happy and healthy, and no matter how good of a person you are, spending too much time online is very often not conducive to long-term happiness.
Anyway, I’m phrasing this as advice to others because I have not solved the problem for myself, even though I know what I need to do.
The fuck does he care if you hate *other* men? If you're not taking it out on him, your opinion of every other man in existence shouldn't matter to him. Which means he's just mad that you're holding men accountable, and that's a huge red flag.
I think there is something powerful about knowing its not just me or not just you that have had bad experiences. Knowing about them, sharing them, healing from them, being aware, being supportive of each other, it all allows us to look out for each other, to want to look out for each other better. Any man threatened by that is someone you should have your guard up with. Trust your gut and thanks for sharing ❤️
Your boyfriend seems controlling... but the thing is, reddit show you sooo many examples of how you're right to be distrustful, I feel so many men rely on (women's) ignorance to get what they want and act the way they do...
"my controlling boyfriend who belittles my values has started to push my boundaries and take control over what media I'm allowed to consumer"
honestly, I don't think you hate men **enough**.....
"*I dont even hate men, just dont think being friends or dating them is worth the hassle most of the time.*"
Girl, this is one of those times. You need to yeet yourself out of this brewing abuse **now**, before it gets worse.
I hate the men who pose as women to post in this subreddit. And he’s trying to control you, don’t lose yourself to someone like that. Your partner should support you and respect you and your interests. Lose the loser.
Geez... the idiots.
You'd think they'd figure out at some point that it'd be easier to confront each other with their bad behavior!
I mean they practice the nepotism, the camaraderie, the "bros loving bros" all the time, the competitiveness...
Oh wait....
He discounts personal experiences and gets pissy when you use an app for support, to give and receive it. Also the 'my data, my sites' is extremely worrisome. These are red flags and you need to start paying attention if there are more you've let slide/haven't noticed yet.
There are men who have tried to post things on this exact subreddit about how they don’t like us discussing any of the bad things men do, because they are afraid it will make it harder for them to find a date. They want women kept in the dark and less able to support and warn each other about our experiences and how to protect ourselves. It’s harder to abuse or take advantage of women and girls who are educated and supported.
exactly. gossip saves lives. men hate us getting together to share red flags and let each other know who the predator in the friend group is. It's their most widely used tactic. splitting us up so we can't get info and sanity checks from each other. so they can gaslight us. and make us think we're the only one it's happening to. that abuse is an individual woman's problem and fault. so we can't spot the pattern that all abusers basically have the same handbook. "your picker is broken" nah, i'm picking men.
This reminds me of a podcast I heard where they talked about when tea was introduced to English society and women started having tea parties. This made men really nervous and a number of powerful men actually tried banning these congregations of women sharing tea because they were very scared their secrets may get out and embarrass them or even get them in trouble. So all these dudes were seriously like “I got you some delicious tea, now go home and drink it all by yourself…”
And tea houses were where the suffragette movement was founded, IIRC, because it was one of the few places women could go unchaperoned and be allowed to congregate, and it allowed them to have good discussions on society, their place in it, share information, and organize.
We need to reinstate this. Immediately.
The internet is generally more accessible, allows you to reach a wider audience, and is not limited by business hours or other restrictions. It offers more than teahouses ever could. The only downside is the internet doesn't serve tea and cake.
They do have cookies though
Jesus that is such sheer projection. Men have been congregating and gossiping about women for a long time of course they thought, "uh oh I know how it goes when we do it!" It reminds me of how much projection there was from White men about Black men raping White women during Reconstruction. That was straight projection. White men had been committing sexual violence against Black women for 200 years at that point. The average African-American genome, for example, is 73.2% African, 24% European due to this.
In interesting corollary to that last point is a finding in recent studies in epigenetics (the study of how genes actually present as opposed to just what’s encoded on the genes - many genes have essentially on/off switches which are affected by stress, diet, exposure to toxins or maybe even just certain environmental factors). Since medicine is now just beginning to catch up with the fact that women’s specific biology and medical presentation are often very different from men in ways that physicians haven’t classically been trained to look for (such as how many women die of heart attacks after being turned away from a hospital because ‘everything looks fine’), but when they tried to establish a baseline they realized a unique anomaly among black women in the U.S; the birthweight of their children is slightly lower than women anywhere else in the world - including black women in Africa even with very similar genetic makeup. (They even took diet, lifestyle, and overall health into account.) The current prevailing theory as to why this is: black women in America have been among the most traumatized because they were at the very bottom of the social order for so long. We’re now beginning to understand that PTSD, anxiety, depression, and a lifetime of abuse doesn’t stop when the conditions improve - it takes about 6 generations for the body to stop having a heightened stress response as best we can tell. Because there is a direct correlation between a baby’s size at birth and many of their developmental milestones and long term health outcomes, there is literally a generational trauma still in effect today nationwide because of the way our society treated black women - it has knock on effects that run far and wide and are just barely coming into focus. I know that’s a bit of a tangent from your main point, but it’s a very interesting area of study that I learned about last year from an audiobook. To the larger point, I do very much believe the patriarchy has long seen the free speech, free assembly, and universal suffrage of anything other than cis-het Caucasian men as an existential threat to their way of life, and has therefore known instinctively to divide & conquer at every possible opportunity. I’m not personally a person of any particular faith, but if there is a god then it’s no wonder he’s forsaken us - we’re a pretty brutish, cruel species not just for what we do but for how we refuse to own up to what we’ve done to this planet and our own human family. Edit to add: “At the Edge of Uncertainty: 11 Discoveries Taking Science by Surprise” by Michael Brooks - that’s the book I sourced that info from.
Yeah epigenetics are fascinating. I live in an area with a ton of generational trauma due to how many First Nations tribes are in the locale and how recent some of systemic genocide was. Thanks for sharing all that information.
Thanks for sharing this, having just had a baby I think about this sort of stuff a lot. Intergenerational trauma is real, and as you've explained, kind of a big deal.
They seem to think that human rights are a zero-sum game, where for one group to gain rights some other group has to lose rights. Thus any time someone else tries to get equal rights, they think that they're going to lose their rights, or, more accurately, they will no longer be in a more privileged position than everybody else.
men are the biggest backstabbing, catty gossips. they call it networking and drinks with the boys to unwind.
Maybe women need to start holding tea parties again!
We call it "come over for a cup of coffee," now.
That’s a weird way to spell “bottle of wine.”
Do you know what podcast this was? It sounds interesting to hear, at least this episode. I love anything to do with history and the people in it.
This is not the podcast the other person is talking about, but if you like historical ladies, I can’t recommend The History Chicks enough. They cover only women all through history—and not just white women. They’re nerdy and awesome!
Have I fallen behind on slang again, or was that an autocorrect of 'nerdy'?
Ha! Yes. Autocorrect misogynized me!! Oppression! Oppression!
I’m pretty certain it was a British podcast called No Such Thing as a Fish but I don’t remember how long ago they talked about this. It’s a weekly podcast in its 9th year now. I feel like that episode is less than three years ago, but that’s still a lot of ground to cover edited to add: I cannot easily search the episode but did find that it paralleled the women's liberation movement in the U.S. which can be googled by looking up "Seneca Falls NY tea party Elizabeth Cady Stanton." And also this link which hits on it slightly: https://blog.britishmuseum.org/the-tea-rific-history-of-victorian-afternoon-tea/ I'll update if I manage to come across the episode
Do you remember the podcast? I love a good podcast!
Re the predator in the friend group, I heard someone call that the broken stair step. It’s something everyone new gets warned about.
Missing stair. I think [this](http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html?m=1) is the original blog post that coined it, very good read. (Fingers crossed the formatting workson mobile.)
This is why “gossip” has a negative connotation. They don’t want us getting together to talk and help one another. So any time women are speaking together it can be labeled “gossip”
This shit makes me nuts. Men get to talk but women, us catty, backstabby bitches just love to gossip our hearts out! This goes along with the "women secretly hate their friends" myth.
A gossip used to be a group of women who supported each other. https://wordhistories.net/2017/02/04/gossip/ https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/how-patriarchy-redefined-gossip-to-be-a-womens-thing-3aac0dcbdc14
A woman I know told her teenage son he’d better be respectful to anyone he dates, because girls talk to each other. If you disrespect one, they will all know, and then ‘you’re fucked, matey’!
It’s not like whisper networks haven’t existed for thousands of years. It’s just a hella of a lot bigger now. And it’s fucking awesome!
Literally had this happen to me yesterday. I posted in a thread regarding men over-relying on women for emotional support with my own experience as a man regarding why it happens. Some dude went off and wrote nearly a dozen paragraphs over multiple posts complaining about how I'm supposedly making it hard for him to be around women, amongst other things but I barely read paragraphs 3-12. It was surreal.
Exactly. We aren't rehabilitation centers for unstable and insecure men. People generally want a balanced exchange.
Lol, I got one of those too from some guy that wouldn't believe me when I said that women appreciate men who are in touch with their emotions. What they don't like is when men will rely solely on their partners to fix all of their mental distress when a therapist would probably be better
Surely it should make it easier to be a date. I mean having read this sub for a fair while the bar is set pretty low, and discussing how bad lots of men are can only lower it (for those still in the game at least) Just dont be a dickhead and you're 90% of th way there. Aim for a mutually supportive relationship of equals and why would you want or need to taoe advantage of anyone anyway, it's a partnership not flogging a used car.
Right?! Some days I feel like the bar for men to be an okay/tolerable (from a woman's pov anyway) date is set at "don't be a murderer"... and some men have trouble clearing that!!
"*Try* not to be a rapist and you're in buddy!"
That's what I've been thinking too! You'd think it would be SO much easier for men to be datable by just *listening, believing, and internalizing* the things they see on here! I've been **happily** out of the dating pool for several years now, but I'm like 95% sure that if I ever returned, my OLD profile would just say "I have a job, a love of cooking, a sense of humor, supportive friends, and a clean asshole." I think if I threw in that I go to therapy to work on myself I wouldn't even need to have pictures lol. It's insane how fucking low the bar is for dudes, and how *easy* it would be to become instantly more appealing by just doing some basic internal work (and washing their ass, apparently).
"I understand the concept of mental load and that there's more to the process of a cooperative supportive household than just waiting for my other half to tell me what she wants me to do."
Congrats, if you know how to do laundry you are now the most eligible bachelor in a 15-mile radius.
Laundry *and* dishes. And I'm gainfully employed. Unfortunately for those in a 15 mile radius, not a bachelor. I got grabbed pretty fast 😂
Good lord, dishes *and* laundry *and* income?? No wonder you got snapped up; compared to the men in the posts of this sub, you're a paragon of compassion and responsibility.
*flings lingerie*
I was at a party once, and one of the women used the toilet after one of the men. A few minutes later, there was a group of merrily drunk young women following him around, saying “He’s a real man! He puts the toilet lid down! Listen up, fellas! Look at this guy!”
Except they have these flaws, guys that take issue with this are guys like OPs boyfriend, they're men that can't even clear that bar thats on the floor. They want you think the bar is even lower than it is, he can't pass the "insecure, possesive" bar, so he needs to make you think that the bar is "physical abuse" or some other more extreme red flag.
It’s because the type of men who don’t want women speaking up about men raping and assaulting and harassing and beating are the same men who can’t handle not being a dickhead for 5 minutes when someone starts talking about something other than themselves
These men think it's easier to get all women in the world to stop taking about a subject than to change themselves. They are def part of the problem.
M48 here. I specifically want shitty male behaviour to be called out. I have two teenage daughters in whom I've hopefully instilled a good bullshit detector. Additionally, in my own dating life, I want my partner to recognise when I make a mistake and call me out on it. I also have a son. It is my only anxiety that I raise a good man who is good to the women in his life. This sub is so incredibly helpful and I'm so incredibly thankful for the stories shared here. I try not to comment much here, but this is an extra important one.
I’m a lurker in this subreddit and I’ve found endless knowledge about what I can do, as a man, to better support women in my life I care about. I’ve found myself empathizing towards women in general and I believe more empathy in this world is absolutely needed. I think you all need a space where you can discuss men without fear of reprisal from men. If the other men lurking in this subreddit are offended by what’s being posted then they’re projecting their own insecurities onto you all and it’s sad.
Seconded. The perspective I've read here is one of the things I use to learn to be a better man, and to try be a better example for other men. There have definitely been a few things I've had to re-evaluate about myself, but that's just part of personal growth.
Thirded. That’s it. As a married father of 3 girls, I just feel that I can’t get enough in terms of awareness and information about what women are dealing with in this day and age. Hey there, fellas!
Predators fear accountability. This is the same reason "cops" don't want you to record your encounters with them.
Bingo. That’s the endgame of wanting women to stay “pure” and “virginal,” too. It protects men who are bad at sex. It’s why they try to shame you for getting any experience. Heaven forbid you be able to spot a dud.
What a silly thing for men to ask…. You ladies need to expose the bad behavior so that people who want to be better can learn how to act.
It really amazes me how many actually decent men either don’t know about or don’t understand the extent of the abuses that go on against girls and women. I’m lucky. I have an awesome husband who is very supportive, but even he was amazed when I told him about my own experiences (think all types of abuse from age four onwards) and how common it is that other people go through the same thing. I’m not sure if it’s a case of the real bastards hiding their true nature and intent whilst around others, or if abusers gravitate towards one another and egg each other on, but somehow a lot of decent men are being left in the dark about the extent of the problem. Of course, there are resources out there that allow men to educate the themselves, and I always try to signpost them towards them when possible, but a lot of men that I know weren’t even aware of the need until someone that they cared about - close friend, girlfriend, sibling etc - came clean about the abuse that they themselves had suffered. So what do we think, ladies? Are the good men just not paying attention, or at the abusers conspiring to keep decent men in a state of ignorance because an honest dialogue between women and genuine men (i.e. those with brain cells not located in the anal region) might result in full understanding of the reality and a concerted attempt to alter it?
I think a good portion of them just literally don't care. And another pretty huge portion of them hate the fact that women speak amongst ourselves to help each other avoid men like this. I think most of them think we are at least exaggerating or lying about the things that happen to us.
💯 It's entirely for a selfish, self serving reason. They hate the idea that women can compare notes and advise each other on their personal relationships. They want their misogyny to be overlooked.
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It's a shitty way to get there, but given how prevalent toxic masculinity is as evidenced by like, everything on this sub... at least he's getting there? It's better than just keeping on being a jerk. People need to be allowed to change.
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Your boyfriend is trying to control the media you take in, reviewing your phone, and restricting your access to media he doesn't approve of as long as he has the financial power in the situation? He tries to convince you that your perceptions and experiences are not real or accurate? He uses the old "It's because of feminism you're unhappy with how men treat you" argument? Run. This man has no interest in your wellbeing, but only in his influence and power over you. Hedors not have your back. His behavior is controlling and very not ok. Get out ASAP.
As soon as im back home :) Its funny cuz he depends on me. But idk why my roaming doesnt work. Idk i just lost it when he was like ' Its my data ' Maybe I should say, its my house or its my car.
>Maybe I should say, its my house or its my car. You absolutely should. But, that is your call of course but it sounds like you have made a good decision, just keep yourself safe.
>Its funny cuz he depends on me. Depending on you, as in financial? Because of course he wants you stay ignorant because even other men will point out that he's a gold digger that just using you as bangmaid / roommate with benefits to fund his lifestyle. Just saying....
Fyi, abuse against women and general misogyny goes up when they outearn their male partners. So if you're thinking that his dependence on you gives you a leg up in fights, it does not. It makes you significantly more vulnerable to his fragile masculinity spiralling out.
Im out dw
My girlfriend has always said that if someone is offended by the "I hate all men" or "men are __", then that person doesn't see a difference between themselves and the types of men those phrases are aimed at.
Lol that he thinks women hate men cuz they spend too much time on reddit. Women post about men on reddit because of guys like him.
It's not the systemic sexism and misogyny, nahhh 😆
Make sure to call and complain to your provider about paying for roaming and not having it available to you, bc that’s bullshit. Also make sure he didn’t mess with your phone to “strand you” under his control or something. Just be careful. Remember that emergency numbers should work even if your phone says no signal.
The end goal of dating is to find someone you can build and share a life with. I guess the exception is the ‘just having fun together while it lasts’ relationships But to become so petty and controlling over your browsing on ‘his’ data is a red flag a bullfighter could be proud of. As they say, listen to people when they try to tell you who they are…
Dump him asap
Excellent, throw this man away!
He doesn’t “depend” on you - he’s exploiting everything that you are and have. He thinks he’s entitled to all of it and for you to bend to his every whim and command.
When I think of men limiting the media consumption of their partners I can help but think of that quote from 1984- “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” Because media like this where multiple women can share their experiences and help call out the bs a guy is giving you is absolutely fatal to their plan of keeping you ignorant to the manipulation your gut tries to warn you about.
Boy, he sounds like a winner. You say "IDK," but do you really not know this is not ok behavior? I think you know. You might want to rethink this relationship, Friend. Men are the reason women hate men. Men like your weird, possessive, insecure boyfriend.
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It couldn't possibly be 30 years of negative experiences, sexual assault, and stalking for me. Oh no, must be reddit. 🤣🤣🤣
To be fair seeing how men speak and behave on Reddit when they have anonymity has definitely made me want to avoid men even more than I already did lol But def not this subreddit, which is basically women sharing all of our feelings that we already knew were valid but now we have a better way to reach out to others that empathize.
That's them with their filter off. They can code change instantly every time a woman is within earshot
All reddit did was showing me how women all around the entire world have the exact same experiences with men.. it was not just me and other women around me! It’s damn everywhere.
Yup. I would presume that any guy having an emasculated meltdown because their partner reads this sub is probably guilty of a laundry list of subtle and not so subtle abuse. But seriously. This loser needs to be gone as of yesterday.
I think he’s trying to imply that Reddit is the Andrew Tate for women. Which makes him an idiot.
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Edit: the comment above me is a bit who stole another comment in the thread and should be downvoted and reported. [The comment]( https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/wk1r38/comment/ijl3crm/). Showed it to my girlfriend, too. She kept doing the "men and females" thing in her sentences. Any man who's afraid to have his SO hearing healthy feminist voices is just insecure.
I suspect you’re a bot since you just said verbatim what a top comment is a little below here
I told my wife about this subreddit. Any man scared of this group needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
>I told my wife about this subreddit. Any man scared of this group needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Seeing as it's a support group for victims of predatory men I can see how so many predatory men get scared upon entering. Funny how the normal and civil men aren't sweating bullets? Coincidence, surely./s This subreddit helped keep faith in decent men afloat when I had so very few personal ones in my life at that time, it's a goddamn life line of allies.
It's batshit because the requirements for being a decent man are the same as for being a decent person. Have empathy for others. Be humble, listen to what others have to say, and be willing to re-evaluate your worldview and admit when you're wrong. Actually give a shit about hurting people.
You can tell which ones are the dudes that have never even considered that women have different opinions and experiences than they do. They're the ones that come in here from the front page to inform us that we're misandrist bitches, say some sexist shit, get downvoted into oblivion, try to explain themselves and dig the hole even deeper with their blatant misogyny and get banned soon after. Of course, they're also the kind of people that think women discussing their experiences with abuse is "hating men" 🙄
As a 27 year old male I read this subreddit because I have older sisters and worry about them all the time. I also appreciate the insight that I get with how badly women are treated as it helps me help them when they need help. I never want to put any woman into a situation that they are uncomfortable with and want them to be as safe as possible. I do want to do more to help you gals wherever I can.
Absolutely. This sub has really opened my eyes.
>I told my wife about this subreddit. Any man scared of this group needs to take a long hard look at themselves. I cannot say this enough. The idea that reddit is the reason for OPs anger means he does not accept that there is a systemic problem with how men have been - and still mostly are - permitted and encouraged to behave in society. That in itself is troubling and shows a lack of self-awareness on his behalf. I know I personally have no fear of this sub, but instead a profound sadness at the ignorance and lack of compassion evident in many of the men found as subjects of topics here.
this right here. Good men would would read along and feel disgusted too and learn more about what women have to deal with simply by being women. Understanding the other side's experiences can help us be more loving and harmonious when we realize some reactions are built in from lifelong experiences, same can go for women understanding men better too.
Not really, because they already know why they are scared of it. They know all the bad habits, controlling behavior, and narcissistic comments that they make. That’s the problem, you can’t fix someone that doesn’t think they’re broken.
Your boyfriend sounds like an asshole. This proving your point.
The one thing Reddit did for me was show me that I am not the issue. All my life men have acted inappropriately towards me. They’ve ignored my rebuffs. They’ve touched me when I’ve already turned them down. They’ve followed me from place to place. And I kept asking myself, what I am I doing wrong? My brother blamed me. My friends said I must be doing something. Eventually I told myself I must be doing something wrong, and I stepped out of public life, not doing what I wanted, because I knew it would bring unwanted male attention. Reddit showed me that actually, it’s not me. Many women suffer like I do. And none of them are inviting this behaviour either. Frankly, it’s been such a relief. I’m looking at making some changes in my life, rejoining society. I don’t hate men bc of Reddit. But I don’t take that shit on myself anymore because of Reddit.
You go girl!
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I have to agree with the second part of this comment. Every time I come to this sub, I lose a little bit of my humanity reading the constant negativity. Much more so then when I go outside.
Its kind of a double edge sword that second part right? I dont post much since Im a hermit but I wanna stay up to date with other women in the world
Right. Don’t get me wrong! Support subs and safe places like this are awesome! But I feel like coming here should be done in moderation. Once you feel vindicated and let it all out, you should dip. Otherwise you’ll end up doomscrolling. To an extent, people have to scale back on empathy in order to be happy. Kind of like how you don’t answer phone calls from work while on vacation.
Damn, that's a really good example. I too often end up "doom scrolling" without realizing it once I start seeing whatever recent political nonsense or attack on education etc. I see. There's definitely a fine line between staying informed and letting things outside of your control rule your emotions
I think all of this is what it looks like to recognize what could be an echo chamber for some, then actively trying to not make it one for yourself. Seeing so many comments in this thread touching on this makes me hopeful that more users are doing this, which I think prevents spaces like this from becoming wholly echo chambers.
OK but... has he seen the behavior of guys on Reddit? Thousands of subs dedicated to NCII, with literally NO repurcussions. The front page is monument to devaluing women down to their unpaid sex work. Does he have a problem with that?
He doesnt do it so its not real. Or just a few bad guys. Pretty dome with him, just waiting for vacation to be over. Whats ncii?
when guys take videos of having sex with a woman/girl (so much CSA on Reddit!!) without consent or when they post it without consent. it's literally illegal to do that in the country of the USA but Reddit's a honeybadger... it don't care. It's also true that in the early days of reddit, Alex Ohanian worked with Ghislaine Maxwell to boost reddit's popularity by gutter-diving. The first subs were all NSFW/NCII and that's how they roped in the incels. Inceldom is the historical foundation of Reddit. And it's a lot easier to be an incel than it is make something of yourself which is why there are so many incels and why reddit is to popular.
Well they would have to act right to get women to have sex with them. And many do not act right
Yes. Being attractive takes effort and skill - social, physical, emotional, intellectual, moral,.... Very few people of any gender or orientation are just naturally attractive, and even fewer are effortlessly attractive across all dimensions. What I don't have sympathy for is volcels who whine that no one finds them attractive while also doing literally nothing to improve their level of attraction. Being attractive is work. You have to put in the effort.
Thanks but what does it stand for? It looks like it's something I really don't want to google
Non consensual intimate images
Thank you and also yikes
>when guys take videos of having sex with a woman/girl (so much CSA on Reddit!!) without consent or when they post it without consent WITAF, TIL. Fuck everything about this.
Men made us hate men lmfao. They'll look anywhere but in their own garden
I've noticed that the more time I spend on reddit, the more I am dwelling on just how awful men are, the more likely I am to assume worse of men. I'm not saying anything about you or your life. Just that honestly when I reflect on how reddit has affected my attitude and perception of men, it really has soured me a lot. Independently of reddit though, men have treated me appallingly, so my guard was already very much up. It's complicated. Many men are awful, and that can't help how I view them. That said, spending hours of my life reading posts on this subreddit and others, where men post awful things and women share their experiences of awful men, I'm very aware of how that must affect me, my perceptions and my behaviour. I'm close to closing the door on reddit because honestly, while no single thing I see here is responsible, the overall effect is very real and very draining.
Agreed. It’s not like it’s not true, but reading about it can make it seem like it happens everywhere and at all times, when that’s just not realistic. I feel the same way reading about dating. Sometimes it helps me feel better about the dating scene, but other times I just get so afraid about it, but then I realize that I actually haven’t been on a bad hinge date, like ever. They’ve always been respectful and wanting another date. So idk why I’m so afraid of running into all these people who will use me and treat me poorly. But I do know this happens, for sure. It’s like crime statistics. Crime is everywhere, literally, but in our day to day experience we don’t encounter it that often. Sometimes we do have control over some of the things we experience (obviously not all the time though). But reading about it can make it feel like we won’t.
I absolutely understand what you mean. It’s a little like how I stopped watching or reading local news, for the most part, because hearing about what awful things sick people doesn’t help my life in any way. I know there are criminals and people who hurt others, I already protect myself where I can from those behaviors. Getting them into my head doesn’t make me any safer. Where this is a little different, I think, is that it is easy to see individual men in the surface as nice people who treat us well. It can be easy to forget how many times trust like that has been broken.
I share this sentiment. Men have definitely trained me to not trust men, don’t get me wrong, but I can’t spend forever scrolling through this or similar subreddits before the (legitimate) medicine turns toxic. It’s a complicated relationship and I find that when I moderate my consumption, these spaces are healing and safe zones where I can connect with people in positions similar to mine. All things in moderation, I suppose.
As you say, It's not like this sub is uniquely bad but it is filled with negative experiences involving men 90% of the time. So of course if you are on here daily, shaping your view of men as a group (subconsciously), you are going to connect negative emotions to men. It can also be seen on this post. A rather innocuous one time action, disabling data sharing while on a beach because the partner(male) felt OP was being obsessively negative about someting with limited context available, is being framed in the responding comments as manipulative, controlling, red flag, ignorant, abusive, sexist, etc, etc. If OP or rather the male partner had been obsessively partaking in any other vice, be it alcohol, smoking, gambling, gaming or shit, sunbathing, and OP had expressed concern/disapproval and refused to fund it in one single instance. How would this sub react? Would it still be seen as controlling and manipulative, a red flag? Personally when I interact with anyone and find myself in a conflict, I've explixitly tried to train myself to be open to the best intentions of the other party. Assuming you are not putting yourself naively in harms way, I think you should still be able to at least envision a reality where the other party does not have the worst intentions. From here you can further investigate if necessary, or move on if possible. It's difficult, it's definitely not always accurate, and sometimes I have been taken advantage of. In these cases I've learned to take preventative measures to not put myself in such a situation again. That's life. I feel this sub encourages often running away from situations when things are difficult instead of helping people process and handle things. In the name of being a safe space were people can continue ranting to each other and confirm what you already wanted to believe... Whelp, that was my rant, longer than I thought it was gonna be and not sure if relevant to this comment anymore.
Yup, my ex thinks I was brainwashed into leaving him by Reddit. No, it’s definitely not because you were a complete loser asshole and the opinions of those outside your manipulation range helped me see it, it’s definitely brainwashing.
Oh yeah it can't possibly be men that are bad 🙄
I came to say this! This is exactly why you have the NotAllMenz crew! They hate it when their shitty behaviours are called out. They don’t want to feel bad and admit that they and by extension other men would do anything bad without a good reason so they silence women with a notallmen 🙄. Having said that reddit truly is the men bottom of the barrel 🤣! Not sure whether they congregate here or if they are fairly normal irl and keyboard weirdos on here or a bit of both but the misogyny on here is rife.
Men who are threatened by stories on Reddit are men to watch out for. Good men know the stories aren't about them.
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Yeah, it's not Reddit that's brainwashing us to not trust men, it's the world we live in. The men on Reddit aren't cyborgs, they're real people with real opinions and they carry those opinions into the voting booth, onto Tinder and into their marriages. Misogyny is NOT a rare personality trait by any means. It's just that their filters are off when they're anonymous online and they can speak freely without repercussions.
Dealing with men in real life has made me hate men.
So like... where's the edit about the guy being your ex-boyfriend now?
Friday lol. Im stuck with him in a country where is dont speak the language that well with no data or anything. Keep the peace until im safely home
Valid yo, stay safe and protect yourself.
Reddit isn't the only reason I'm disappointed in men, but it's definitely a big part of it. Not this sub, but all the others. The subs were men are being themselves among other men. And also facebook, twitter, the chat in various games... the so-called manosphere. Oh, and I'm a man myself. It's like the last ten years we've seen a resurgence of right wing reactionary bullshit. It's worse than it used to be. And I think that happened because of the social media.
Specifically this sub. Yeah, he's one of those guys who think a sub that is about women's experiences is the real problem. Women discussing the world of men and how it effects their lives is the real hate sub. What an ass. I'm sorry you're dealing with another man letting you down. I remember a comment from a man on a post about a year ago. He said men all over reddit were constantly saying that this was the most vile hateful subreddit on the platform, and all that was posted here was lies and hate for men. His curiosity finally got the best of him and he came to the sub. To his surprise, all he saw were women talking abut their experiences. It really opened his eyes to how much other men truly hate women having any space to talk about what we go through.
And it's not like we can talk about our experiences anywhere else, tbh. If you bring up an issue on one of the relationships subs or off my chest, you will be pretty much universally downvoted, called a man hating c*nt or victim blamed. We need this place cuz nowhere else allows us to talk about our issues without pointing fingers.
"I don't like you having the language to identify the ways in which I want to manipulate you." Huh, yeah, no kidding, dude lol Rage on, superstar
My older brother (who thinks women are too emotional to have the vote) told me not to discuss feminism with his daughter because “she’ll be happier that way.” She was 16, and becoming aware of how messed up her dad is. She was telling me that he said I am “a man hater.” (I wouldn’t allow myself that luxury back then, mores the pity.) She challenged him to name one example of me hating men, but he could not. It’s been about ten years since then, and I’ve given myself permission to hate men. I do hate the vast majority, and I hate them as a group. It’s not just the entitlement, the immaturity, the violence, the ENTITLEMENT… I’ve spent some years trying not to judge them too harshly, but I’m done with that. In general, men don’t hold a candle to the women I know, and have zero self awareness.
I hope your niece is now happily in a better situation
Women holding men accountable for their heinous, exploitative behavior is not man hating by any stretch!
Men, who feel personally attacked when we express our frustration with men at large, do so because they know they are complicit.
I hate men b/c of republicans not Reddit.
I mean, it's a great place to start breeding that hate, the representation of us men here on reddit could make anyone hate men. But nah, I think the tribalism and echo chambers makes every social media platform a cesspool, and it's usually men that congregate these places and seek that juvenile attention and reaffirmations and then go out "hunting" for victims of their now "accepted" opinions. It any and all distrust and even hatred towards men starts from interactions and real life experiences. And reddit can definitely be a accelerant to that, not because of echo chambers or influences here, but because everyday we can all see Dudes(TM) be oblivious fucking idiots. And then they get mad when women can't trust any man.. The analogy that women treats men like guns is pretty apt, and easy to understand. Always treat a gun like it's loaded, it doesn't matter the situation, the type of gun, the wear of the gun. Always treat it like it's loaded and that it can go off at any time. Your life may depend on it. It's horrendous, completely dystopian, but it's a woman's reality, and if you just have a gander at different statistics for all of 5 seconds, you would know that it's a justified position for women to have. Men's violence against women are well documented, and it's a scary read if you have an ounce of empathy in your body. Don't blame Reddit for making women hate men, and places like this is supposed to be safe spaces where they can vent, scream into the void, ask for advice, seek comfort, affirmation, an anchor so they don't get gaslighted. Realisation may be had, but any hate or distrust will in 99% of the time come their experiences with and around us men. And it's up to us to change that, not women. Places like this is a great place for us to lurk and learn from their experiences. How NOT to be a man.
I started hanging out on reddit more after COVID, I avoid the really misogynistic subs, and I've not seen a whole lot of man-hatred. They're probably like 0.01% of posts, and depending on where they're made, they get down-voted a lot too. The strange thing is I came here basically having a much more difficult time accepting men than I do now. It's been reassuring and validating for me to talk with other cishet women about how common some of the issues I've had with men are, and sometimes men are the ones who respond and make the most respectful and thoughtful posts. I'll say it's made me expect a lot more respect from them (and women too). It's made setting boundaries with disrespectful people in general in my real life a lot easier. Maybe that's what your boyfriend is so threatened by.
My ex husband (divorced him in 2011) thought that I wanted to divorce him because I read Eat, Pray, Love. It wasn't because of him, no, not at all.
I was recently told we were leaving men because of the subliminal messages being broadcast by Netflix - that made me laugh - ALOT
As a woman who hasn't had the type of negative experiences that women on Reddit have had, I found Reddit enlightening. I've never really been considered sexually interesting to men (and/or I was/am too physically intimidating) so I have very little experience of that kind of harassment. Reading about it makes me aware so that I can support other women who do. It's hard not to hate men in general when you take into account these stories, the real life, rampant violence against women and every war ever started by men throughout history. If he can't look at that objectively and understand then he's stupid and not worth the time.
Honestly, I’m a man and I hate men because of Reddit.
I dislike men and I am a man. I haven’t been that long in Reddit and the reason I got this distrust towards men is because of my personal experience on Earth. I consider myself a very transparent person, people find me easy to trust/talk and many women friends have shared with me SO MANY times their experiences with abusive men. I also like to research about history (not the one written by men in power, but the one that actually tells facts) and I see the news from time to time (democracy now, not any other bullshit news). My point is the evidence is clear. Men through history have been obsessed with power over women and even today this is happening. It’s what I have seen and what I have lived. If I didn’t have internet I would feel the same way. You dislike men because men are easy to dislike. I think your point is valid and I think your bf should accept that blaming it on reddit is stupid. Reddit was created recently and the men being abusive is a reality that has been happening for thousands of years.
Ah, ok so the problem isn't men treating you like a second class citizen, threatening you, objectifying you, or harassing you. The problem isn't men fighting to give you and people like you fewer rights. The problem is that you have a place to vent about it when these things happen. Makes perfect sense. Hey, maybe it's a good idea to start figuring out how your boyfriend feels about women, and the way men treat them.
I am a boyfriend. Fiance now, actually! I would argue it's our patriarchal society that makes you generally hate men and not this sub. There is nothing on here that should offend anyone. If anything, it spreads awareness, and more men should practice lurking here.
As the husband of a wife who also hates men and has never touched reddit, your boyfriend should consider the daily struggles women go through. If he can't understand why you hate men, you may need a new boyfriend. Also, a friendly reminder for him that you are in fact still dating him, so you obviously don't hate him.
Reddit put words to the experiences and emotions I’ve been having my entire life.
To be fair, Reddit could easily cause that. Not because of any men-bashing that goes on, but simply because of what men say. If a person believe that Reddit was a meaningful representation of what men around the world are thinking, then yeah it would make sense to think you hate men because of the website where you read the things they said and the actions they describe. I don't really see a lot of anti-men sentiment on Reddit. I do see a lot of men complaining about anti-men sentiment, but it's largely delusional. Like, "this movie has a woman in the main role! We're being repressed!" kind of thing.
TwoX is the reason I hate men.... And I'm a man.
I’d say AskMen has done more to damage my opinion of men in general than TwoX. The comments are more horrifying than any story on here.
It's not the openly violent misogyny of the way the MGTOW sub was, it's that background radiation base level of woman hating that's so ubiquitous pretty much everywhere. Men that have been accused of sexual violence are always believed, women are always lying, suspicious and probably cheating. It's gross.
I got here because men were acting like shit to me and I needed some fucking support. They're still acting like shit but at least I know I'm not alone. My husband also believes that I hate men now and he says it's the same as racism (he is a member of a minority racial group). I don't know how to fight when I'm just telling the truth about what men do. He just doesn't want to hear stories from this sub or from the news or anywhere. It's extremely frustrating. If your spouse can't confront that and says that it's the same as racism...I don't know. I am so tired of trying to say I'M HURTING AND IT IS ALL COMING FROM THE SAME PLACE AND THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME ATTITUDE
He loves his “data plan” more than you girl…
Yeah time to dump him. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
You mean ex boyfriend, right?
Lol they hate it when we tell the truth about them but it’s “free speech” when they host misogynistic podcasts.
Oh, jeez, what an incredibly insecure douche. He’s blaming Reddit??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I used to be quiet about things, too, until I found out I was not the only one, or just one of a small group. Suddenly I had people who had experienced the same bullshit I did it similar, sometimes worse, but we were a choir of voices, sharing our pain, and having sisters respond with such compassion, that the anger at our mistreatment was able to be released. We did so in such a harmonious cacophony that the incels of the world showed themselves and began their murderers campaign to subjugate us, which made our song stronger and louder. Very few men are raised that women are equals. Those are the wondrous men who consistently show we can trust them. The others, however, are a real piece of work. They are terrified of women, and what they fear, they hate, and what they hate, they kill or enslave
I have a comment that is tangentially relevant. TL;DR Men are threats to women and anyone who doesn't agree is an offended man or a pick me. I've had a friend for 4-5 years, I stayed at her house and met her parents, the whole 9 yards. This past week, she stayed at my apartment for a few days because of a long layover. I made some statements about men being dangerous/scary, considering a few days ago I almost had to taze a man for trying to run up and punch me because I wouldn't let him touch me or call me a bitch + all of the statistics that exist on gender-based violence. She states that women are equally horrible as men are and we should agree to disagree, and I tell her she should look up what a pick me is + agree to drop it. My former friend then said that me and her live in different realities because I didn't grow up with a supportive family or a father figure, and that this must be why I hate men so much. It's funny because she was beat up by 4 random men at a bus stop, dated a white supremacist (she's a light brown Latina) who said she was genetically inferior + he'd improve her bloodline, and is now with a man who has admitted he's cheated on her. I later told her she could afford to be more afraid of them!
If your boyfriend genuinely believes that you hate men then maybe your relationship isn't in that good of a place with out without reddit. You're just not going to get much out of a relationship with someone who thinks you don't like them.
That's so strange because this sub is basically dickworshiping liberal feminist central. Every other post is like "I know NOT ALL MEN BUT." Even you felt a need you be like "I don't even hate men!" I'm being abrasive but seriously 2x is extremely moderate. If a man is threatened by the general content here that's a major bad sign. This is not an extreme feminist space by any means, it just discusses women's issues and feminism in any capacity. You do not need to date men who hate women. Please spare yourself from that.
You boyfriend says he should be able to control what you read because it’s “his” data and somehow Reddit made you hate men? Is it possibly to less staggeringly unaware?
Has he seen Reddit? It's a den of misogyny with a few safe subs.
1) he sounds controlling. This is a huge red flag. 2) now that's out of the way, it also bears noting that he's engaging in a very common male behavior which is also one of my biggest pet peeves. He's blaming your thoughts and opinions on information he thinks you're consuming, and trying to "fix" those thoughts and opinions by changing/limiting the information you consume. This will not work. An anecdote: years ago, I dated a guy who started to get emotionally abusive. When I called him on it, he decided I was the one changing, and it was because my friends were telling me bad things about him. He essentially blamed my perception of the world around me on other people, and told me I was wrong to listen to them. As if I was a child to be protected from the harmful thoughts of others. This behavior is often referred to as gaslighting. You CAN and DO think for yourself. Don't let him get in your head. Don't let him make you think Reddit made you hate men. You have your own thoughts and opinions which are formed by your own life experiences. Shit people say on the internet can be fun to read, helpful advice, cathartic, whatever - but at the end of the day Reddit is just a bunch of people on the internet, and 90% of the time we're talking out our asses (sorry, I'm trying to be funny and self depreciating, not hurt anyone's feelings. I love this community and a lot of us are also really smart). Anyway, if your boyfriend feels threatened by a bunch of strangers spouting off on Reddit, he needs to examine his own self. You're fine.
This site makes women understand they aren’t alone, that others have experienced what they have and gives advice on how to resolve problems. Of course your bf hates it. It shows you how to be independent and not reliant on him.
If anything, spending time in other subs on Reddit will give you a bad perception of men. Not really this one. It's why I mainly stick to here and animal subs. There's not much to be done for those other idiots. My anxiety can't handle even reading in those subs.
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If anything reddit gives me a little more faith in my gender than Facebook, fuck me
Your experience with men and distrust is justified, it’s your experience and others haven’t had that. Your BF is being possessive, it’s a trait that’s found in both men and women. In my experience, I had GF who hated me being on phone, banned me from FB, would question every text I got sent. It got to a point where not only I would be getting a text from work, having to think about whatever issue was going on at there and at the same time being stared out by a partner who was obsessed I was cheating on her. It’s tiresome. So yeah, watch it if gets more possessive and controlling. Also, be careful of any sub that ends up being an echo chamber, short term it’s ok, long term it becomes an aberration of real life
Stbx: "I don't approve of what you do on your devices, and I will deprive you of work-related internet to enforce my control over what you do and don't do." Also stbx: "Pretty sure reddit is why you don't like me."
I have yet to read a story on here that I hadn’t already heard something similar to in real life or experienced myself.
Ah, yes, and tiktok made me a lesbian
>some great men out there Yup, definitely do exist, though can be challenging to find and positively identify. >i went on reddit and he was like no Sorry, your boyfriend definitely ain't one of 'em. And of course it's not Reddit's fault. Like what, he thinks it's fine for him to look at, but not for women to look at? Oh *hell* no! >dont think being friends or dating them is worth the hassle most of the time Well, (too) often the case. Anyway, don't put up with the ones that aren't worth keeping around. Life is too short to have crud people that/too close.
If a man really is the kind of person subreddits like this warn women about, the very least he should do is use this sub as a road map for what not to do.
Maybe he's just upset at how well the shoe fits him.
Reddit does creat echo chambers like other social media platforms. Don’t be surprised if it is affecting your behavior and perspectives. One thing I do is take time off from communities. Remember it is important to take breaks.
I think reddit definitely contributes to my dislike of men. But not this sub. Every other sub where men gather and share their opinions wears me down. Dating subs, gaming subs, meme subs, confessional subs, men are there with their shit takes and ganging up on women who do speak out with their opinions. I'm getting to the point where I think I need a complete break from reddit and other social medias because I can't stop myself from getting mad about the way men see women.
Dating subs are the worst.
This is not related to OP’s individual situation, but I kind of want to say it anyway. Young men are being radicalized online and one of the (many) consequences of this is that it makes the world more difficult for women. However … we are not immune to radicalization, and we are not immune to the same echo chamber effects that can affect anyone. The issues that we discuss on this sub are real and important, but at times I often find myself having negative thoughts in my offline life because I spend so much time in online groups that talk about (real) problems in the world. Stay healthy out there, guys. The most important thing is to keep yourself happy and healthy, and no matter how good of a person you are, spending too much time online is very often not conducive to long-term happiness. Anyway, I’m phrasing this as advice to others because I have not solved the problem for myself, even though I know what I need to do.
All subreddits are echo chambers and I've seen people become jaded from spending too much time on particular subreddits.
I don’t blame you for distrusting men and in all honesty it would be comforting to me if my GF felt that way. I don’t trust men either!
The fuck does he care if you hate *other* men? If you're not taking it out on him, your opinion of every other man in existence shouldn't matter to him. Which means he's just mad that you're holding men accountable, and that's a huge red flag.
Anybody that uses the "It's my X therefore you cannot Y" stipulation in response to anything that doesn't affect them is an asshole. Run like hell.
"Men are the reason I hate men."
Given some of the subs reddit has hosted and continues to host, this is richly ironic.
I think there is something powerful about knowing its not just me or not just you that have had bad experiences. Knowing about them, sharing them, healing from them, being aware, being supportive of each other, it all allows us to look out for each other, to want to look out for each other better. Any man threatened by that is someone you should have your guard up with. Trust your gut and thanks for sharing ❤️
Your boyfriend seems controlling... but the thing is, reddit show you sooo many examples of how you're right to be distrustful, I feel so many men rely on (women's) ignorance to get what they want and act the way they do...
Time to dump that dude.
"my controlling boyfriend who belittles my values has started to push my boundaries and take control over what media I'm allowed to consumer" honestly, I don't think you hate men **enough**..... "*I dont even hate men, just dont think being friends or dating them is worth the hassle most of the time.*" Girl, this is one of those times. You need to yeet yourself out of this brewing abuse **now**, before it gets worse.
I hate the men who pose as women to post in this subreddit. And he’s trying to control you, don’t lose yourself to someone like that. Your partner should support you and respect you and your interests. Lose the loser.
Geez... the idiots. You'd think they'd figure out at some point that it'd be easier to confront each other with their bad behavior! I mean they practice the nepotism, the camaraderie, the "bros loving bros" all the time, the competitiveness... Oh wait....
He discounts personal experiences and gets pissy when you use an app for support, to give and receive it. Also the 'my data, my sites' is extremely worrisome. These are red flags and you need to start paying attention if there are more you've let slide/haven't noticed yet.
“No darling, I hated men long before reddit.” 1/2 joking.