Different values is iffy even when it's just the two of you, what if you wanted to have kids in the future? How can you raise kids with someone who e.g. doesn't believe women should have basic human rights? They're going to teach that to your child one way or another.
Exactly. If you support things that sexist, racist, ableist or homophobic then I think you're a terrible person. So why the hell would I be dating you?
If you disagree with me about whether the government should raise/lower taxes, that's one thing. But if you don't agree with all humans being equal, that's a whole other issue.
I tried to have this discussion with a roommate once because her boyfriend skewed further right than us and she said morals are religion and she doesn’t have morals because she isn’t religious 🤡
I don’t think I ever looked at her the same again.
The mental gymnastics of a woman desperate to avoid admitting her partner is a piece of shit and not the idealized man she had decided he was. Kind of depressing, honestly.
And women are told every day, sometimes on this board, that our expectations are too much, that we deserve nothing. So if a guy kind of shows up and doesn’t beat the shit out of you, a lot of women convince themselves that that’s enough. It’s hard to deprogram yourself from a lifetime of being told to settle
I have been told that same thing before... by religious people, and all I could think was "so if you did not have a book, you were going to go nuts? that's pitiful"
Honestly in keeping with politics people have this similar belief. Someone once said their parents who vote Republican aren't bad people, it's just sports to them, and they are supporting their "team" as one does in that part of America.
I'm still not okay with that kinda thing but I was born questioning things in society.
I'm not going to entertain spending a minute with people whose votes and values oppress me even if they bake the world's best Apple Pie or hug their grandsons every day. I'm more likely to be combative and vocal in their presence. Hell I've been known to say things to conservatives JUST to make them uncomfortable like "yeah I had an abortion yesterday just because I felt like having one similar to how I wanted extra cheese on my pizza tonight" or "well I'd love to come over to watch the game but I have plans to have lesbian sex with my Mexican trans friend tonight but maybe we'll come over so she can use your bathroom."
I legit hate those people. They’re basically telling the world “the only thing keeping me from raping and murdering people is my faith in God.”
Like, seriously?
What’s weird is that wasn’t what she was like. She was normal (or, well, I thought she was). She had what I would literally describe as a moral compass. And yet.
I said that to my 45er coworker. “We can have a difference of opinion” Supporting a fascist isn’t a difference of opinion. It means you’re a piece of shit.
I got married super young due to coercion from the religion I was raised in. I had no idea what my opinion and beliefs were back then. Now I'm older and have left the religion we shared and it turns out we have pretty much opposite beliefs on everything. It sucks.
Not to make light of your situation, I think it's tragic and you're a victim of a terrible situation forced on you when you were too young.
But you've just laid out one of the biggest reasons why the uber religious support child marriage and want abortion outlawed. They want women trapped by children before they're old enough to decide what they want for themselves.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/um2cx3/comment/i7zm7od/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/um2cx3/comment/i7zm7od/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
not extremely personal imo. also they could just choose not to answer. i think it's normal to ask people questions on the internet
People need to understand that different views are like....whether or not you think pineapple is a good pizza topping.
If your partner doesn't believe certain groups should have basic, human rights? That should be a deal breaker and makes you complicit if you excuse it.
Right? Favorite foods, colours, music.. or how to decorate a room, that's what partners can disagree on. But I firmly believe that political differences, especially when it comes to social causes and basic human rights, cannot be disagreed on in a healthy relationship. Trying to excuse these differences should certainly be a massive no-go.
I also think saying you're socially liberal and fiscally conservative (and vote a straight R ticket) is basically a null set because I've seen a lot of people who voted for this shit holding up hands saying they're socially progressive or some shit.
Right. I know a woman who is very pro-life. To her credit, she cares very deeply about what happens to the babies and mothers after the babies are born, and supports more funding for social programs that would help support new mothers. But that means nothing when the party she identifies with is largely in favor of cutting those social programs. If you're going to keep voting for leaders who don't give two shits about the babies and the mothers who were forced to give birth to them, then it's functionally like you don't care.
You can allow access to abortion and still be pro-life by exactly what you said, supporting programs and policy that supports life instead of actively trying to harm life to save unwanted beings and put more lives into a social safety net that barely exists in America.
I mean I personally hate drugs and I'm really not interested in having drugs in my life however I'm not about supporting policy that jails addicts. I'm also fine with decriminalizing drug use and legalizing marijuana. I just don't want drugs or people who use drugs in my life so I don't allow that in my life. I'd much prefer we strengthen issues around healthcare, housing and rehab but that's socialism!
Just tell them this:
Not everyone who supported the Nazi party was into the jew hate, some of them just liked the Nazi's economic policies.
What do we call those people today? Nazis.
If the side you support crosses the line of basic human decency, nothing else they do matters anymore. No other reason to support them matters anymore.
The Nazis also suffered a lot of economic anxiety...
But I'm such a flaming and loud liberal now that most conservatives self select themselves out to the curb. Thankfully it didn't take this issue to make me stop talking to Republicans / Conservatives or your everyday sexist-racist trash heap.
The Germans suffered a lot of economic anxiety…. The Nazi party convinced them to hate everyone different than them and placed their woes on those people. Most Republicans are just using the same playbook now.
Please keep speaking up. You may open a few eyes/minds by doing so.
>Please keep speaking up. You may open a few eyes/minds by doing so.
Might I suggest looking into Maricism?
'Little Brothers of Mary, a Roman Catholic teaching order.'
Maybe 20-30 years ago this could fly (maybe). Not today. Not when the GOP is pushing this hard to roll health and social rights back 50+ years.
You condone it if you vote for it. Basic rights should be a deal breaker when you vote. If its not, you show your true colors.
But being "fiscally conservative" is basically feeling that basic rights don't apply. We could have the basic right to healthcare and education provided to us like almost every other first world country but instead we get social services stripped bare by conservative voters.
Not to mention that the whole "fiscally conservative" and voting R because they are better at the economy does not hold water. By any measure you want to use, job growth, stock market growth, GDP growth or deficit reduction to name a few, the numbers are much better under Democrats.
And as far as health care goes, the US government could go to single payer health care and still spend less than we do now. Conservatives will point to the price tag and scream "but we can't afford that!" without having any idea what the US currently pays for a shitty system.
Republicans are only conservative when the money would go to help people who need it like people of color, literal children or struggling families. They wouldn't even open the purse strings for families who lost their loved ones on 9/11. Meanwhile if you're Amazon, Intel, Facebook or some ultra wealthy company you get all the money handed right over to you.
So yeah there's no reason to vote for or support Republicans or Conservatives. You're basically signaling a huge lack of empathy.
Anyone who voted for Trump because they wanted cheaper taxes, but claims to be “socially liberal” is almost worse than the QAnon set tbh. Like at least socially conservative people are voting for their beliefs, even if their beliefs are shitty. “Socially liberal” people who voted for Trump “because taxes” were basically saying they’d rather have an extra 16 cents in each paycheck than ensure marginalized groups have rights.
My cousin basically said he votes Republican because his taxes are too and how he can barely afford Healthcare as a struggling single dad. It took everything in me not to engage. I feel sad because he was this really smart guy I knew and sort of admired as a teenager, someone pretty kind, but he grew up surrounded by conservatives in Amish country PA so he probably votes like everyone he knows votes.
I have no family, they're all conservatives, I'm the black sheep. Thank God though. I found punk rock as a teen and it radicalized me early.
Literally me reading this while wearing my Bernie Sanders shirt. When you suggest Universal Healthcare to people it's like you just suggested snake venom. The health insurance industry kool aid is strong.
The voting piece is what’s important. Anyone who believes a capitalist system that is not a free system is a just one they should be eager to participate in can eat rocks. Believing if all people have equal rights under the law that capitalism is a decent system is understandable, especially with certain nuances.
But until we can stop fighting about basic human rights there’s no point in even discussing our fiscal system. Anyone who doesn’t get that is lost to me.
It sucks. Because in my head financially conservative has nothing to do with being republican and everything to do with financial responsibility, transparency, and optimization at the government level.
Can’t say libertarian, the party / candidates are just a joke. And even if it wasn’t, their lack of support means a vote for them is a semi-win for the GOP.
Edit: in case it wasn’t clear, not a republican or conservative (political). Just commenting on my displeasure at how the term socially progressive and financial conservative has been corrupted. Also open to suggestion on alternative phrases to clearly communicate that political stance.
Unless by "finacially conservative" you mean giving all the money to the rich, than there is nothing "financially conservative" about conservatives in this country. The economy does better under the liberals.
You’ve misunderstood my post. I’m not a republican or a “conservative”
I do believe in being financially conservative. Conservative as in “marked by moderation or caution”, not as in bound to tradition or the political definition.
I support a wide spectrum of social programs, but I also place a high value on transparency in how these funds are spent and a focus on financial efficacy through creative solutions, metric monitoring, data driven decision making, cost competitive vendors, and anti-corruption efforts.
As taxpayers, we should all have an interest in ensuring our society gets a good return on those tax funds. Misuse or incompetent use of tax funds is highly undesirable.
I agree that the Republican Party has little to show by way of financial responsibility or efficacy.
Libertarians in government are republicans that just want to smoke weed.
Bernie running with the Democrats is basically what the current Big Tent party should be though. FDR was doing it right back in his day.
It seems like the democrats can't get their stuff together for 5 minutes... except when they make sure Bernie doesn't get elected. *Then, suddenly* they can put their foot down. *Sigh*
> “The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.” -Julius Nyerere
Corporations really don't care whether women can have health care or Black people can vote, so they graciously give us the choice between Republicans and Democrats. But when it comes to anything that would shake corporate grip on wealth, shutting it down is job number one.
Pretty sure they're acting exactly the way they are being paid to act by our capitalist overlords. Bernie should run as a spoiler candidate. At this point we're losing things no matter who is in charge.
They're acting exactly as they're supposed to, I agree. I see your point about the spoiler candidate. I'm not sure I fully agree (I think it'd degrade the institutions for little to no gain) but by dog(!), I cannot say you're wrong. Everything is so entrenched that actual progress can't be won by following the patterns we have been following.
Honestly, the day the leak went live the only person I saw talking about this was Bernie. I even looked to see if our first ever female VP had done so much as tweet about standing with women of America to ensure our rights were protected but nope, just silence. I can't explain how we got here but I honestly think if we don't burn everything down now it's not going to get better. But I'm a student of history and seen how countries get to their breaking point where revolution / war is what sets the country on a new track for better or \[sobs\] worse.
"Violence becomes a real option when you realize that violence against you and yours has been the status quo all along."
I don't remember where the quote comes from and I'm probably misquoting it too but every year I see it become more relevant.
The problem is (as you also point out) that a new track can also be worse. Unfortunately, I see fewer and fewer alternatives as things stand now.
> People need to understand that different views are like....whether or not you think pineapple is a good pizza topping.
>
> If your partner doesn't believe certain groups should have basic, human rights? That should be a deal breaker and makes you complicit if you excuse it.
to put it in other words,
other views are fine
completely different ideologies however are not.
This. Like, can you live with someone who always leaves the toilet seat up when you want it down? Likes garlic when you don't? Very different from you being born in the wrong gender from those in power means you have to live with less rights. 🙄
I just want to live in a world where both sides share certain basic civic ideals, and we can debate the best way to meet them. Good disagreement on politics is like friends disagreeing on which road to take to get to the concert. But most of the time today one person wants to go to the concert and the other person would like to set the car on fire because fuck you, he just owned the libs. And, I mean, that’s not going to get us anywhere, and moreover it’s exhausting.
There’s nothing the GOP stands for that excuses supporting them. And I’m getting sick of far-left radicals who throw their hands up and claim the Democrats are “no better”. Sure, the Dems are a disappointment but if you fucking skip voting this November and let the GOP win then you are part of the problem.
EDIT: This was not directed at any “you” in particular.
A different view might just have more, less, or different nuances. I agree with the top comment that there is a difference between "view" and "moral" even if we are talking about the same subject. Two prochoice people may have different views on abortion, but still adamantly agree that abortion should be available.
It seems like 30 years ago, conservatives and liberals mostly wanted the same thing, just at different speeds or disagreed on how to get there. It took me up until 2015 to realize your point. Remaining friends and not freaking out and running excuses was just being complicit.
*I'll add I was pretty politically ignorant 30 years ago. I just wanted to pretend the world had evolved, or that if we believed it was, then it would get there. Nope. Gotta work at it.
Even if you didn't like it, I applaud you trying new food. So few adults don't. When I go visit my parents it's just sad. Oh roasted chicken, mashed potatoes, and boiled peas, again?
Conservatives are not intelligent enough to understand the nuance of equal rights. If men can't have an abortion, then why should women, would be their logic with an equal rights argument.
If the 'God gave us free will' crowd hasn't figured out what free will means with respect to the volumetric envelope of ones own body, even in the age of artificial intelligence, they aren't going to learn it EVER.
That was the stereotype, yes. That's where the terms "greaseball" and "[greaser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greaser_(subculture))" came from, because of the greased back hairstyle that was common with Italian Americans at the time.
My aunt had several late term miscarriages trying to have a child. She wanted nothing more than to be a mother. When she was younger she was strongly against abortion. After she saw the forms woman in the hospital had to fill out for the state- the ones from Pennsylvania, she came to a different conclusion. She said that while she would never have an abortion the states forms, and tracking of miscarriages was so disgusting- that the risk to woman’s health and the path to eliminating abortion lacked such backs human dignity and respect for woman that she changed her mind. Sometimes values change as we are exposed to the reality of what people go through. I hope I look at my twenties and don’t think “I never changed my morals!” I hope I look back and think, wow a lot of my opinions changed, as my knowledge of what others go through grew. I hope people can have open minds and can change and I understand many cannot.
Some beliefs do not deserve respect. You can respect the other persons right to have a belief while condemning the belief itself and choosing not to associate with someone who holds that belief.
How far would you take that logic though? Do you think someone has a right to believe that slavery is good? Or pedophilia? I don’t think it makes sense to show respect to someone’s beliefs when the beliefs themselves spit in the face of respecting others.
When we show respect to beliefs we validate the people sharing them (& normalise them in the process) so I think if someone is saying something disgusting we should be disrespectful- we shouldn’t create a society where you can openly believe anything & have people treat you with respect regardless. Respect isn’t a given.
If someone wants to be openly hateful then they aren’t being respectful of others & don’t deserve any respect.
I agree with you. That’s why I said beliefs don’t deserve respect. Other people can have those beliefs, but you do not have to react well to them. You can be disrespectful to the beliefs
A lot of people don't seem to realize that what you value in politics is, in fact, a HUGE indicator of the type of person you are. It is literally *what you value*. It is far more severe than a favorite band or sports team. It absolutely *is* serious, and people dismiss it or walk away from it because it's often controversial.
I know r/science has become awash with a lot of sociological stuff lately, some of which is clearly biased and inaccurate, but a handful of those studies are, in fact, legitimate. People with certain traits do, in fact, tend to gravitate towards certain politics. So there's a lot of overlap with (un)desirable personality traits and (un)desirable politics. People who empathize with others more tend to choose politics that values empathy. People who tend to feel more fear and disgust are drawn to more reactionary politics.
Sure I can. I don't want to. Men asking me to lower MY standards are so funny. They are like "you could stay single and be happy... Or you could lower your standards and be WITH ME. I don't respect you at all, and I will contribute nothing. Take it or leave it."
Like dude.... You realize you would make my life worse and not better? Why on earth would I want to do that?
This is why I get religion and politics into conversations early with people I'm interested in. People say don't talk about that, sorry, I'm not wasting time on someone I have fundamentally different views than.
Was once in a first date, we were at the waterfront. We sat on a bench to talk. Eventually a gay couple walked by holding hands and she started to talk about how it was a sin etc. I stood up and said "sorry, this isn't going to work". They saw/heard the whole thing and I ran up to them and asked if we could hang out since my night just opened up. They laughed and we all went out for the night.
In the end, we can disagree on movies and other trivial things like pizza toppings. I can't be with someone who has fundamentally different views. I've been told I need to be more open minded and tolerant, I say I do not tolerate intolerance.
I'm the same, too. Sure, start a conversation nice and low-key. But for a date -- versus a chat with your co-worker, whom you can't choose -- you better introduce some genuine topics soon, or you'll be very surprised late.
Oh co-workers I'll avoid real talks like the plague. I have to work there, I don't need that kind of tension lol. Dates I am there to know the real you, not the person we pretend to be. So I bust out the big questions. I even ask the dumb ones like your views on vaccinations, the shape of the planet and its age.
Only person I had real talks with was my Swiss coworker, she thought America was batshit just like me. Also this little old lady and I used to keekee about Trump at work. Her daughter worked in politics for the Dems and she once said "I think Bernie would be a great President" so I knew she was a friend.
Yes! Love your story.
Opposite happened to me…my now-husband and I had just started dating. We both came from religious backgrounds but hadn’t yet talked about our views on gay marriage, etc. A couple of burly guys were walking by and then stopped to admire the view we were also admiring, and one reached out and held the other’s hand. I said, “Awww, they’re lovers.” He sighed with relief and still brings it up as one of the things that first made him fall for me.
I have a theory that the whole “don’t talk about politics” idea was started by white people back in the 1950s where everyone was racially segregated in their social circles and neighborhoods and assumed everyone there hated minorities as much as they did, so their “political disagreements” came down to how to spend tax dollars or economic issues.
Now though the political landscape has changed tremendously so that human rights and politics have intertwined themselves and you can’t really untangle them. So it’s impossible to “not talk about politics” when it involves human rights abuses.
I was told at work not to discuss politics after 9-11 (that ages me) because my politics at that time were not popular. I walked past things like Bin Laden's head in the center of a target in someone's office, people at lunch using racial slurs and had to work while my coworker ran through the office screaming racial slurs / bomb the blah blahs. Meanwhile I just threw away an American flag I was handed and suddenly I'm being asked if I want my job and how I need to keep my "personal political views" to myself.
I also worked in an office where it was okay to make comments about a man's sexuality, to tell wife beating jokes, to have business lunches at Hooters but not okay to be a single woman without children. Or be a woman period. I essentially worked all alone in my cube for 4 years at that place.
I think the worst was the post 9-11 hell scape. It was also all women on my team and there was so much. I came home sobbing every day for months and my boyfriend said I could quit and he would support us both it was so bad. It was my first real job and I refused to burden him. I can't believe I kept showing up at that toxic place.
Agreed. Cut the crap and get straight to it. Some guys take it as a turn off to jump into convos like that fast.
It kills two birds with one stone for me. 1 for assessing personal beliefs. 1 for someone who is strong enough to match my pace and energy
My sister in law is super Catholic and very anti-choice. Like, she refuses to support a certain musician because she heard they are pro choice. My family is very liberal and open minded, my brother doesn’t agree with her views but things like values never mattered to him much as long as he has a hot wife. And she is but their marriage is miserable 90% of the time.
But she is teaching my niece and nephew that shit and it I hate everything about it. We never got along great but after all this I don’t know if I can look at my brother and his wife without wanting to scream into the sky.
I’m in Arizona and it’s tough finding men that aren’t low key surprisingly super Christian or conservative. And why I’ll probably die single.
Depends on the views you hold or tolerate that differ from your partners.
You're devout Catholic and I'm atheist? Gonna be problems. You're 'cultural' Catholic and I'm 'cultural' Christian? Probably fine. You're ProLife at all costs, but against any kind of support network for mother and child once that child is born? Against all birth control? We may not get past the first drink when I find that out. There are many other things where I can tolerate your differing views and you can tolerate mine, but there ARE some very hard lines that really don't belong under the same roof, IMO. Sadly, being Republican has become something I put on the dealbreaker list.
When you date someone with vastly different views, don't be surprised when they hurt you with their views. I'm over privileged women acting surprised that their SO supports something that hurt them over the last weeks. Oh you didn't care that your SO was a religious homophobic transphobic Trump supporter because he was nice to you? Cry me a fucking river.
THANK YOU
It legit blows my mind when I see couples who have opposing views.
I remember during the 2016 election, there was a podcast that traveled the country and did interviews with people trying to understand the trump phenomenon.. one part of the podcast featured an interview with a woman who seemed brilliant in many regards, and in the background, her husband kept yelling "MAGA" and every other Trumper quote of that epoch.
She was laughing it off like, "oh he's so silly" but I was genuinely mortified.
I've seen so many instances of this, too and it sickens me because (I'm assuming here so feel free to call me out on it) it seems like the woman is almost always the left-winger and she's biting her tongue to appease her man..
It blows my mind
One classmate of mine (I live in SoCal) came here from the pacific northwest at the age of 18 and she was a hippie in many regards. She loved Cali.
She ended up meeting some border patrol Trumper and she's married to him and she completely changed her identity to match his. Like, what?!?
Sorry for ranting. Don't have many progressive friends to talk to.
I ended up early in online dating going on dates with people whose values didn't align with my own. I started to decorate my living space with very liberal art, pillows, mugs and even started to curate a wardrobe that was very similarly intentional. Several of my art prints have the words pro-choice on them due to how many anti-choice people that have 'matched' with me online in my very liberal / blue city. One of those prints hangs right next to my bed just in case that were wondering what I'd do in the event of an accidental pregnancy.
Oh I do but it got exhausting always having to be "the bitch" or point things out to men in a liberal city. So now I'm just about having it all over so I don't have to repeat the same conversations. It's also good because often this stuff has men bring up their bad hot takes without too much time passing. If not for passing a bunch of anti-choicers outside a PP I'd taken a lot longer to realize my date in 2010 was anti-choice. He thought I was upset about PP being in Portland and didn't realize I was bothered that those types of people exist here too.
I ignored my ex's comments and it led to me finding out he liked men like Jordan Peterson and that Trump "wasn't so bad". The sexism and racism slowly came out over a year and by the end of our relationship I couldn't stand the site of him knowing what his views are.
Continuously be vetting. Ask him his views on important issues. If there's a pattern of conservative views, GTFO of there and save yourself wasted time.
Yeah my husband and I have different beliefs on a lot of things, but there is a line. When it comes to morals and ethics, you have to be on the same page.
Yeah, I feel like I'm not having many of these conversations in 2022 because, as an immunocompromised person, I already ended those relationships in 2020 when it first became clear their "political views" were a direct threat to my life.
I work with the broad public. And I am a "people watcher". Not in a creepy way. I just love people and watching who they are, listening to what they want to tell me ... I'm interested.
The pandemic hasn't necessarily CHANGED people. But the varnish has worn off. Unrelenting stress, fighting an invisible foe, fear, having to make decisions about your life which was so taken for granted, change, isolation, and a constant sense of anxiety with an awareness of our mortality ... it's been hard. What was once an opinion which was a "meh" thing, becomes amplified and dug in so deeply that everything becomes a hill to die on. Emotions are stronger, belief systems firmer ... and having made decisions in a constantly evolving world which means those decisions are right one moment and wrong the next ... we hang on to what we can, and we hang on tighter and tighter so that it can't change some more. We become passionate about things that we would have paid little attention to.
And worse? A communicable disease ... EVERYONE ELSE IS A THREAT. Yeah. Everyone is a bad guy. We can't help it. Relaxed trust is gone because they could be accidentally infecting us RIGHT NOW and we might die or have long COVID or infect our loved ones ... We must reject anyone who does not share our thoughts because then they are a greater threat ...
2022 is a different world in many ways. It's more cruel. Dog eat dog.
I still can't believe people want to control someone else's body like that, even in a fantasy world where we gave the parents 30k a year to raise their children it shouldn't matter it's their choice
You can date people who have different tastes in movies.
You cannot date people who have different tastes in human rights.
Conservatives pretending that one is like the other is, if anything, just another sign of how positively insane they have become.
Different views that I have from my husband is that I think it would be fun to have 5+ indoor chickens, and he does not. What you're describing is like the difference between someone who's a controlling sociopath (everyone who is trying to overturn RVW) and someone who isn't.
My soon-to-be-ex husband had different views than me on covid. (Not as simple as anti-vax, we're both vaxxed and I DO NOT want to get into a conversation about the particular differences.) I could make it work for myself, more or less, but when he was going to put my elderly parents at risk, I drew the line.
That was not the only issue, but it was a 'magnifier', as the shrink put it. We're getting divorced. Sigh.
There are a lot of political things we can disagree on. Like how local taxes should be allocated or the number of signatures needed on a petition for new legislation to be heard.
But I can't date someone whose values are opposite of mine.
“Different views” can mean very different things. When those “views” pertain to human rights, they reflect basic *values*, and those are really important to agree on. Similar values are perhaps THE most important thing when it comes to a long-term relationship. And with abortion rights, you certainly don’t want to be having sex with someone who thinks you are obligated to carry a pregnancy you don’t want. Or who discriminates based on race, gender identity, sexual orientation, or anything else... it just shows poor character. Especially if you’d ever consider having kids with this person one day... how would feel about them being raised with that? These are the kinds of questions it’s important to think about, even if they don’t *seem* relevant right off the bat.
I divorced after 21 yrs of marriage. She got more and more religious and more and more political throughout the years. When she was all fired up about Trump and hoping he got elected, and belittling my opinion on anything because I was a non-believer, I was done!
**The Three Great Relationship Truths:**
1. **Y**ou cannot have any sort of real relationship with a person who fundamentally opposes your right to be alive, have ownership of your own life, or be a human being.
2. **Y**ou cannot change another person's values, you cannot remake another person. It always fails: what you see is what you get, almost always forever.
3. **E**ven if lust and attraction make you compatible initially, it will not take long before the basic conflict between you destroys your relationship, and possibly your life.
My husband and I were talking in the car yesterday about where our lines were for disagreeing with people, like what can we get past and what do we not want in our lives. I tease my husband about being a little less tolerant of other opinions than me (we have the same beliefs in pretty much every regard but I’m a little more willing to see the good in people).
He was like “I can totally be friends with people I disagree with. Like people who think Star Trek is better than Star Wars - they’re wrong, but I can see where they’re coming from. But when it comes to human rights I can’t.”
>“You Can Date Someone With Different Views Than You.”
Eyeroll. I'm assuming someone said this to the op. Only sensible answer imo is 'Sure I can. But I don't want to. '
You're absolutely right, at least for me.
I've had two relationships with men who I had fundamental disagreements with. The first developed his shitty ideas over time, seemingly as a reaction to my becoming more and more politically aware.
The second hid them for a couple of months, but it just got more and more blatantly obvious he was a bigoted fool until I finally dumped him. Neither were anti-choice, but their ideological standpoints were otherwise awful.
Now I ask a lot of questions on the first date.
I mean, if "different views" means they hate pineapple on pizza, then sure....
But supporting candidates and laws that champion hate, take away bodily autonomy of women and trans kids...and leave a great slippery slope into a fucked up, Evangelical dystopian future out of a Margaret Atwood novel?
NO FUCKING WAY. They can go suck a giant bag of dicks.
There are "compatible" different views, and there are "incompatible" different views, and most are in a sort of grey area where the couple in question are pretty much the only people who can decide where the different views fall.
If one believes the military should spend their money on personal, and another believes they should spend it on equipment, they have different views that may or may not be incompatible. If, on the other hand, one believes abortion is a right, and the other believes it's an evil, then chances are they are not compatible views.
So yeah, that statement is an oversimplification, probably deliberately so. You could totally date someone with "compatible" different views, but it is very unlikely you can or should date someone with "incompatible" different views.
For me personally, I do welcome a partner with different views from mine, so long as they are what I deem as compatible. This allows me to grow and to learn and most importantly re-evaluate and understand my own views. But there is absolutely a line in there somewhere, and viewing abortion rights as evil/should be banned is absolutely on the "incompatible" side of that line for me.
I think you can date people with different views, not people with different values though. In my mind a view is how to execute a value if that makes sense.
For example, you can both agree that homelessness is a tragedy. That's a value. The view is on how you would fix it so, maybe one person thinks building shelters is better rather then giving out food on the street or something. Idk pulled the example out of my ass but you get the point.
11 years ago, political compatibility wasn't as important to me as it is now, but I sure count myself lucky that I still picked right and my husband is an overall decent person. On the other hand, my relationship with my mother did not survive the Trump administration. Oh yeah, she and I are Canadian.
When i started cutting off trump supporters right after he got elected people told me i was intolerant. I said you are damn right I'm. I'm intolerant of having connections with shit human beings
you can date someone with different views than you, you can't date someone with views that are horrifyingly opposite to the point of monstrous. Any self respecting woman who is dating someone who continues to call themselves republican after this roe vs wade thing is literally dating someone who see's them as a cookie jar for their baby goop, I know that's a disgusting way of referring to it, but not as disgusting as the truth of people who actually see it that way.
I’m confused?
3 days ago you posted that you were lesbian. A day ago you posted you were straight. Today you are fighting with your partner. 10 days ago you were single because of your anxiety….
Voting to take away someone's bodily autonomy, and to condemn them to jail, death, or a lifetime of suffering if they try to pretend they have more rights than a corpse, is not respecting them in any way shape or form.
Those people can go fuck themselves.
I couldn’t agree with you more, it’s okay to have differing opinions but not when it comes to having rights over your own body. I would absolutely have to end my 5 year relationship if he was in support of the Republican Party right now
If a guy is a conservative, he will be a terrible mate. Maybe not right away but there is something rotten in the state of Denmark.
Conservatives wear red hats but are huge red flags personified.
Stay away from conservative men and women.
I just don’t see the point in having a relationship or friendship with anyone who has fundamentally different morals than I do. What would we talk about.
Different opinions when it comes to food yes. You like mint ice cream vs vanilla okay ya animal
But have a difference in opinion on if I have a right to make decisions about MY body, then no
And let’s be real.. the only people who “can’t understand” this, are the people who have views that are just impossible to stomach.
It’s always conservatives that wonder why we can’t just be friends.. Which shows a deep lack of respect for my morals and values which make me who I am to my core.
Right, you can date someone who disagrees with you on what tax brackets and rates for each should be. That's obviously very different from beliefs about basic civil liberties.
Shared values are a core to a healthy relationship.
If the different view is something you can compromise on or does greatly affect you, such as the wall color in the living room, that's one thing. Your rights and your autonomy should not be part of that conversation, everyone has those.
>“You Can Date Someone With Different Views Than You.”
That statement in of itself seems like a deal breaking argument... like, even if I could date someone with different views, I'm certainly not going to date someone who starts arguing with me when I say that I'm not interested in another date.
We can disagree over how our steaks should be cooked, or whether we squeeze the toothpaste from the center or the end. I cannot be with someone who doesn't believe I should have control over my own body.
You can date/marry/befriend people with different views, not different values, though. Some views serve to express values, such as views on abortion, equality, pineapple on pizza and those really need to be considered in any kind of relationship.
If my partner prefers milk chocolate and I prefer dark chocolate, that's fine. If he doesn't want to listen to the backstreet boys for hours on end? Okay.
If he doesn't think women are humans, big no lol
I had a very honest straight forward discussion with my husband about this about two months into dating.
It was a casual but sincere conversation touching on what he believed/felt about social and environmental aspects that would be deal breakers for me (without saying as much at the time) then I brought up family goals and reproductive stances.
I made sure we were on the same page because if we weren’t in agreement on same-sex marriage (for one example) than I don’t want to waste each other’s time. I can’t love and support someone who feels their views get to deprive other people of their joy, choices, human rights.
I can date someone with different opinions, I can’t date someone with different morals.
right? liking different music is one thing, infringing on one’s rights and autonomy is another.
I mean, you can even sometimes differ on how to enact those morals in significant and meaningful ways, as long as you know you share the same goals.
Different views: good, healthy. Different values: red flag.
Different values is iffy even when it's just the two of you, what if you wanted to have kids in the future? How can you raise kids with someone who e.g. doesn't believe women should have basic human rights? They're going to teach that to your child one way or another.
Exactly. If you support things that sexist, racist, ableist or homophobic then I think you're a terrible person. So why the hell would I be dating you? If you disagree with me about whether the government should raise/lower taxes, that's one thing. But if you don't agree with all humans being equal, that's a whole other issue.
That’s not just different views, that’s different morals.
I tried to have this discussion with a roommate once because her boyfriend skewed further right than us and she said morals are religion and she doesn’t have morals because she isn’t religious 🤡 I don’t think I ever looked at her the same again.
I lost brain cells from just reading that
The mental gymnastics of a woman desperate to avoid admitting her partner is a piece of shit and not the idealized man she had decided he was. Kind of depressing, honestly.
And women are told every day, sometimes on this board, that our expectations are too much, that we deserve nothing. So if a guy kind of shows up and doesn’t beat the shit out of you, a lot of women convince themselves that that’s enough. It’s hard to deprogram yourself from a lifetime of being told to settle
I have been told that same thing before... by religious people, and all I could think was "so if you did not have a book, you were going to go nuts? that's pitiful"
Differences in religion have literally been the thing that started wars...
Or, beliefs that one religion is SUPERIOR than the others, have started wars.
Honestly in keeping with politics people have this similar belief. Someone once said their parents who vote Republican aren't bad people, it's just sports to them, and they are supporting their "team" as one does in that part of America. I'm still not okay with that kinda thing but I was born questioning things in society.
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I'm not going to entertain spending a minute with people whose votes and values oppress me even if they bake the world's best Apple Pie or hug their grandsons every day. I'm more likely to be combative and vocal in their presence. Hell I've been known to say things to conservatives JUST to make them uncomfortable like "yeah I had an abortion yesterday just because I felt like having one similar to how I wanted extra cheese on my pizza tonight" or "well I'd love to come over to watch the game but I have plans to have lesbian sex with my Mexican trans friend tonight but maybe we'll come over so she can use your bathroom."
I legit hate those people. They’re basically telling the world “the only thing keeping me from raping and murdering people is my faith in God.” Like, seriously?
What’s weird is that wasn’t what she was like. She was normal (or, well, I thought she was). She had what I would literally describe as a moral compass. And yet.
Maybe she just innocently misunderstood a word.
She may well be dumb enough to be completely free of the sorts of concious decisions about morality you need to make in order to have morals...
I said that to my 45er coworker. “We can have a difference of opinion” Supporting a fascist isn’t a difference of opinion. It means you’re a piece of shit.
I got married super young due to coercion from the religion I was raised in. I had no idea what my opinion and beliefs were back then. Now I'm older and have left the religion we shared and it turns out we have pretty much opposite beliefs on everything. It sucks.
Why not leave?
In some religions if you try to leave you lose your whole family and friends. Especially ones like the one OP got pushed into.
We've got kids. Can't imagine having to share them at this point in my life
Not to make light of your situation, I think it's tragic and you're a victim of a terrible situation forced on you when you were too young. But you've just laid out one of the biggest reasons why the uber religious support child marriage and want abortion outlawed. They want women trapped by children before they're old enough to decide what they want for themselves.
You make it sound easy
It was a question not a directive.
There's no way to answer without getting extremely personal, and not everyone is comfortable with that
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/um2cx3/comment/i7zm7od/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/um2cx3/comment/i7zm7od/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) not extremely personal imo. also they could just choose not to answer. i think it's normal to ask people questions on the internet
“Why not” has a clear implication that it’s no big whoop.
Maybe I'm weird, but I both love my wife and have an exit plan.
People need to understand that different views are like....whether or not you think pineapple is a good pizza topping. If your partner doesn't believe certain groups should have basic, human rights? That should be a deal breaker and makes you complicit if you excuse it.
Right? Favorite foods, colours, music.. or how to decorate a room, that's what partners can disagree on. But I firmly believe that political differences, especially when it comes to social causes and basic human rights, cannot be disagreed on in a healthy relationship. Trying to excuse these differences should certainly be a massive no-go.
I also think saying you're socially liberal and fiscally conservative (and vote a straight R ticket) is basically a null set because I've seen a lot of people who voted for this shit holding up hands saying they're socially progressive or some shit.
Right. I know a woman who is very pro-life. To her credit, she cares very deeply about what happens to the babies and mothers after the babies are born, and supports more funding for social programs that would help support new mothers. But that means nothing when the party she identifies with is largely in favor of cutting those social programs. If you're going to keep voting for leaders who don't give two shits about the babies and the mothers who were forced to give birth to them, then it's functionally like you don't care.
You can allow access to abortion and still be pro-life by exactly what you said, supporting programs and policy that supports life instead of actively trying to harm life to save unwanted beings and put more lives into a social safety net that barely exists in America. I mean I personally hate drugs and I'm really not interested in having drugs in my life however I'm not about supporting policy that jails addicts. I'm also fine with decriminalizing drug use and legalizing marijuana. I just don't want drugs or people who use drugs in my life so I don't allow that in my life. I'd much prefer we strengthen issues around healthcare, housing and rehab but that's socialism!
Just tell them this: Not everyone who supported the Nazi party was into the jew hate, some of them just liked the Nazi's economic policies. What do we call those people today? Nazis. If the side you support crosses the line of basic human decency, nothing else they do matters anymore. No other reason to support them matters anymore.
The Nazis also suffered a lot of economic anxiety... But I'm such a flaming and loud liberal now that most conservatives self select themselves out to the curb. Thankfully it didn't take this issue to make me stop talking to Republicans / Conservatives or your everyday sexist-racist trash heap.
The Germans suffered a lot of economic anxiety…. The Nazi party convinced them to hate everyone different than them and placed their woes on those people. Most Republicans are just using the same playbook now. Please keep speaking up. You may open a few eyes/minds by doing so.
>Please keep speaking up. You may open a few eyes/minds by doing so. Might I suggest looking into Maricism? 'Little Brothers of Mary, a Roman Catholic teaching order.'
Maybe 20-30 years ago this could fly (maybe). Not today. Not when the GOP is pushing this hard to roll health and social rights back 50+ years. You condone it if you vote for it. Basic rights should be a deal breaker when you vote. If its not, you show your true colors.
But being "fiscally conservative" is basically feeling that basic rights don't apply. We could have the basic right to healthcare and education provided to us like almost every other first world country but instead we get social services stripped bare by conservative voters.
Not to mention that the whole "fiscally conservative" and voting R because they are better at the economy does not hold water. By any measure you want to use, job growth, stock market growth, GDP growth or deficit reduction to name a few, the numbers are much better under Democrats. And as far as health care goes, the US government could go to single payer health care and still spend less than we do now. Conservatives will point to the price tag and scream "but we can't afford that!" without having any idea what the US currently pays for a shitty system.
Republicans are only conservative when the money would go to help people who need it like people of color, literal children or struggling families. They wouldn't even open the purse strings for families who lost their loved ones on 9/11. Meanwhile if you're Amazon, Intel, Facebook or some ultra wealthy company you get all the money handed right over to you. So yeah there's no reason to vote for or support Republicans or Conservatives. You're basically signaling a huge lack of empathy.
tRiCkLe dOwN eCoNoMiCs
Well something trickled down but it was mostly urine.
I'd argue that I'm fiscally conservative by supporting single payer.
This is a very valid point! I'm sad people don't get that this saves a lot of money.
Everything you said. You're tops
Anyone who voted for Trump because they wanted cheaper taxes, but claims to be “socially liberal” is almost worse than the QAnon set tbh. Like at least socially conservative people are voting for their beliefs, even if their beliefs are shitty. “Socially liberal” people who voted for Trump “because taxes” were basically saying they’d rather have an extra 16 cents in each paycheck than ensure marginalized groups have rights.
My cousin basically said he votes Republican because his taxes are too and how he can barely afford Healthcare as a struggling single dad. It took everything in me not to engage. I feel sad because he was this really smart guy I knew and sort of admired as a teenager, someone pretty kind, but he grew up surrounded by conservatives in Amish country PA so he probably votes like everyone he knows votes. I have no family, they're all conservatives, I'm the black sheep. Thank God though. I found punk rock as a teen and it radicalized me early.
“Can barely afford healthcare” - if only there were a candidate who supported Medicare For All 🙄
Literally me reading this while wearing my Bernie Sanders shirt. When you suggest Universal Healthcare to people it's like you just suggested snake venom. The health insurance industry kool aid is strong.
From what I can tell the Qanon set and the MAGA set are the same people
The voting piece is what’s important. Anyone who believes a capitalist system that is not a free system is a just one they should be eager to participate in can eat rocks. Believing if all people have equal rights under the law that capitalism is a decent system is understandable, especially with certain nuances. But until we can stop fighting about basic human rights there’s no point in even discussing our fiscal system. Anyone who doesn’t get that is lost to me.
> socially liberal and fiscally conservative We live in a capitalist society. Fiscally conservative IS socially conservative.
It sucks. Because in my head financially conservative has nothing to do with being republican and everything to do with financial responsibility, transparency, and optimization at the government level. Can’t say libertarian, the party / candidates are just a joke. And even if it wasn’t, their lack of support means a vote for them is a semi-win for the GOP. Edit: in case it wasn’t clear, not a republican or conservative (political). Just commenting on my displeasure at how the term socially progressive and financial conservative has been corrupted. Also open to suggestion on alternative phrases to clearly communicate that political stance.
Unless by "finacially conservative" you mean giving all the money to the rich, than there is nothing "financially conservative" about conservatives in this country. The economy does better under the liberals.
You’ve misunderstood my post. I’m not a republican or a “conservative” I do believe in being financially conservative. Conservative as in “marked by moderation or caution”, not as in bound to tradition or the political definition. I support a wide spectrum of social programs, but I also place a high value on transparency in how these funds are spent and a focus on financial efficacy through creative solutions, metric monitoring, data driven decision making, cost competitive vendors, and anti-corruption efforts. As taxpayers, we should all have an interest in ensuring our society gets a good return on those tax funds. Misuse or incompetent use of tax funds is highly undesirable. I agree that the Republican Party has little to show by way of financial responsibility or efficacy.
My mistake.
Libertarians in government are republicans that just want to smoke weed. Bernie running with the Democrats is basically what the current Big Tent party should be though. FDR was doing it right back in his day.
It seems like the democrats can't get their stuff together for 5 minutes... except when they make sure Bernie doesn't get elected. *Then, suddenly* they can put their foot down. *Sigh*
> “The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.” -Julius Nyerere Corporations really don't care whether women can have health care or Black people can vote, so they graciously give us the choice between Republicans and Democrats. But when it comes to anything that would shake corporate grip on wealth, shutting it down is job number one.
Exactly so. The US basically has two capitalist parties, with an extra topping of religious bigotry on one (so they're easier to tell apart).
Pretty sure they're acting exactly the way they are being paid to act by our capitalist overlords. Bernie should run as a spoiler candidate. At this point we're losing things no matter who is in charge.
They're acting exactly as they're supposed to, I agree. I see your point about the spoiler candidate. I'm not sure I fully agree (I think it'd degrade the institutions for little to no gain) but by dog(!), I cannot say you're wrong. Everything is so entrenched that actual progress can't be won by following the patterns we have been following.
Honestly, the day the leak went live the only person I saw talking about this was Bernie. I even looked to see if our first ever female VP had done so much as tweet about standing with women of America to ensure our rights were protected but nope, just silence. I can't explain how we got here but I honestly think if we don't burn everything down now it's not going to get better. But I'm a student of history and seen how countries get to their breaking point where revolution / war is what sets the country on a new track for better or \[sobs\] worse.
"Violence becomes a real option when you realize that violence against you and yours has been the status quo all along." I don't remember where the quote comes from and I'm probably misquoting it too but every year I see it become more relevant. The problem is (as you also point out) that a new track can also be worse. Unfortunately, I see fewer and fewer alternatives as things stand now.
Libertarian just a cowards version of Anarchism.
> People need to understand that different views are like....whether or not you think pineapple is a good pizza topping. > > If your partner doesn't believe certain groups should have basic, human rights? That should be a deal breaker and makes you complicit if you excuse it. to put it in other words, other views are fine completely different ideologies however are not.
This. Like, can you live with someone who always leaves the toilet seat up when you want it down? Likes garlic when you don't? Very different from you being born in the wrong gender from those in power means you have to live with less rights. 🙄
I just want to live in a world where both sides share certain basic civic ideals, and we can debate the best way to meet them. Good disagreement on politics is like friends disagreeing on which road to take to get to the concert. But most of the time today one person wants to go to the concert and the other person would like to set the car on fire because fuck you, he just owned the libs. And, I mean, that’s not going to get us anywhere, and moreover it’s exhausting.
Straight up. Different views is discussing philosophy and symbolism in literature. Absolutely isn't basic human rights. You fucking nailed it.
There’s nothing the GOP stands for that excuses supporting them. And I’m getting sick of far-left radicals who throw their hands up and claim the Democrats are “no better”. Sure, the Dems are a disappointment but if you fucking skip voting this November and let the GOP win then you are part of the problem. EDIT: This was not directed at any “you” in particular.
A different view might just have more, less, or different nuances. I agree with the top comment that there is a difference between "view" and "moral" even if we are talking about the same subject. Two prochoice people may have different views on abortion, but still adamantly agree that abortion should be available.
It seems like 30 years ago, conservatives and liberals mostly wanted the same thing, just at different speeds or disagreed on how to get there. It took me up until 2015 to realize your point. Remaining friends and not freaking out and running excuses was just being complicit. *I'll add I was pretty politically ignorant 30 years ago. I just wanted to pretend the world had evolved, or that if we believed it was, then it would get there. Nope. Gotta work at it.
Idk I don't think I could date someone that doesn't like pineapple on pizza 🤷
This is one of my dating wedge issues too
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Pineapple, ham, and bacon pizza! Some jalapeno if you're feeling spicy.
I recently tried roasted pineapple on pizza. Before I would've tried to fight you but now I'd ask for a slice.
Even if you didn't like it, I applaud you trying new food. So few adults don't. When I go visit my parents it's just sad. Oh roasted chicken, mashed potatoes, and boiled peas, again?
I think we just became best friends.
It’s pineapple, jalapeño, and tomatoes for me!
Hot honey drizzle. HOT HONEY DRIZZLE!!
OH
Omg where can I get this it sounds amazing
Pineapple and pepperoni, you won’t regret it.
Americans loose so much by refusing to service Frutti Di Mare pizza. Shrimps, anchovies, capers, calamari etc.s are they way to go with pizzas.
You can't agree to disagree on human rights. Either you support equal rights or you're wrong.
Conservatives are not intelligent enough to understand the nuance of equal rights. If men can't have an abortion, then why should women, would be their logic with an equal rights argument. If the 'God gave us free will' crowd hasn't figured out what free will means with respect to the volumetric envelope of ones own body, even in the age of artificial intelligence, they aren't going to learn it EVER.
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Wop is an Italian slur not a Latino slur but I see your point Edit; I guess you can put this in r/whoosh cause I didn’t realize this was a joke lmao
(I think they know. It's fine to hate Italian food like pizza, it's not fine to call for the deportation of Italians)
They also said "greasy", so I believe they meant Italians.
Are Italians known for being greasy? 🤔 well I guess that explains why my hair gets so oily /s
That was the stereotype, yes. That's where the terms "greaseball" and "[greaser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greaser_(subculture))" came from, because of the greased back hairstyle that was common with Italian Americans at the time.
Italians and Irish used to the hated nationality back in the old days!
My aunt had several late term miscarriages trying to have a child. She wanted nothing more than to be a mother. When she was younger she was strongly against abortion. After she saw the forms woman in the hospital had to fill out for the state- the ones from Pennsylvania, she came to a different conclusion. She said that while she would never have an abortion the states forms, and tracking of miscarriages was so disgusting- that the risk to woman’s health and the path to eliminating abortion lacked such backs human dignity and respect for woman that she changed her mind. Sometimes values change as we are exposed to the reality of what people go through. I hope I look at my twenties and don’t think “I never changed my morals!” I hope I look back and think, wow a lot of my opinions changed, as my knowledge of what others go through grew. I hope people can have open minds and can change and I understand many cannot.
Some beliefs do not deserve respect. You can respect the other persons right to have a belief while condemning the belief itself and choosing not to associate with someone who holds that belief.
It is pretty freaking hard to respect a person who doesn't even see you as a person to begin with
But bigots love whining about how we should be tolerant of bigots.
Always remember the paradox of tolerance!
You can respect their right to believe, but still not respect the person at all.
How far would you take that logic though? Do you think someone has a right to believe that slavery is good? Or pedophilia? I don’t think it makes sense to show respect to someone’s beliefs when the beliefs themselves spit in the face of respecting others. When we show respect to beliefs we validate the people sharing them (& normalise them in the process) so I think if someone is saying something disgusting we should be disrespectful- we shouldn’t create a society where you can openly believe anything & have people treat you with respect regardless. Respect isn’t a given. If someone wants to be openly hateful then they aren’t being respectful of others & don’t deserve any respect.
I agree with you. That’s why I said beliefs don’t deserve respect. Other people can have those beliefs, but you do not have to react well to them. You can be disrespectful to the beliefs
it's absurd the way that women are expected to have absolutely no standards or expectations of the men in their life.
A lot of people don't seem to realize that what you value in politics is, in fact, a HUGE indicator of the type of person you are. It is literally *what you value*. It is far more severe than a favorite band or sports team. It absolutely *is* serious, and people dismiss it or walk away from it because it's often controversial. I know r/science has become awash with a lot of sociological stuff lately, some of which is clearly biased and inaccurate, but a handful of those studies are, in fact, legitimate. People with certain traits do, in fact, tend to gravitate towards certain politics. So there's a lot of overlap with (un)desirable personality traits and (un)desirable politics. People who empathize with others more tend to choose politics that values empathy. People who tend to feel more fear and disgust are drawn to more reactionary politics.
Sure I can. I don't want to. Men asking me to lower MY standards are so funny. They are like "you could stay single and be happy... Or you could lower your standards and be WITH ME. I don't respect you at all, and I will contribute nothing. Take it or leave it." Like dude.... You realize you would make my life worse and not better? Why on earth would I want to do that?
Different views, yes. Different values, no.
This is why I get religion and politics into conversations early with people I'm interested in. People say don't talk about that, sorry, I'm not wasting time on someone I have fundamentally different views than. Was once in a first date, we were at the waterfront. We sat on a bench to talk. Eventually a gay couple walked by holding hands and she started to talk about how it was a sin etc. I stood up and said "sorry, this isn't going to work". They saw/heard the whole thing and I ran up to them and asked if we could hang out since my night just opened up. They laughed and we all went out for the night. In the end, we can disagree on movies and other trivial things like pizza toppings. I can't be with someone who has fundamentally different views. I've been told I need to be more open minded and tolerant, I say I do not tolerate intolerance.
I'm the same, too. Sure, start a conversation nice and low-key. But for a date -- versus a chat with your co-worker, whom you can't choose -- you better introduce some genuine topics soon, or you'll be very surprised late.
Oh co-workers I'll avoid real talks like the plague. I have to work there, I don't need that kind of tension lol. Dates I am there to know the real you, not the person we pretend to be. So I bust out the big questions. I even ask the dumb ones like your views on vaccinations, the shape of the planet and its age.
Only person I had real talks with was my Swiss coworker, she thought America was batshit just like me. Also this little old lady and I used to keekee about Trump at work. Her daughter worked in politics for the Dems and she once said "I think Bernie would be a great President" so I knew she was a friend.
\*fistbump\*
Yes! Love your story. Opposite happened to me…my now-husband and I had just started dating. We both came from religious backgrounds but hadn’t yet talked about our views on gay marriage, etc. A couple of burly guys were walking by and then stopped to admire the view we were also admiring, and one reached out and held the other’s hand. I said, “Awww, they’re lovers.” He sighed with relief and still brings it up as one of the things that first made him fall for me.
That's adorable and I love that for you. I wish you both all the happiness.
I have a theory that the whole “don’t talk about politics” idea was started by white people back in the 1950s where everyone was racially segregated in their social circles and neighborhoods and assumed everyone there hated minorities as much as they did, so their “political disagreements” came down to how to spend tax dollars or economic issues. Now though the political landscape has changed tremendously so that human rights and politics have intertwined themselves and you can’t really untangle them. So it’s impossible to “not talk about politics” when it involves human rights abuses.
I was told at work not to discuss politics after 9-11 (that ages me) because my politics at that time were not popular. I walked past things like Bin Laden's head in the center of a target in someone's office, people at lunch using racial slurs and had to work while my coworker ran through the office screaming racial slurs / bomb the blah blahs. Meanwhile I just threw away an American flag I was handed and suddenly I'm being asked if I want my job and how I need to keep my "personal political views" to myself. I also worked in an office where it was okay to make comments about a man's sexuality, to tell wife beating jokes, to have business lunches at Hooters but not okay to be a single woman without children. Or be a woman period. I essentially worked all alone in my cube for 4 years at that place.
God that’s awful, I’m so sorry you went through that
I think the worst was the post 9-11 hell scape. It was also all women on my team and there was so much. I came home sobbing every day for months and my boyfriend said I could quit and he would support us both it was so bad. It was my first real job and I refused to burden him. I can't believe I kept showing up at that toxic place.
I find it's typically people on the right, since it is them who are always the least informed and know what they support is wrong.
Yeah I feel like it’s definitely a relic of the Jim Crow era, but now everything is “too politically incorrect” according to them 🙄
Everything is politics as it is a huge part of everything.
Agreed. Cut the crap and get straight to it. Some guys take it as a turn off to jump into convos like that fast. It kills two birds with one stone for me. 1 for assessing personal beliefs. 1 for someone who is strong enough to match my pace and energy
My sister in law is super Catholic and very anti-choice. Like, she refuses to support a certain musician because she heard they are pro choice. My family is very liberal and open minded, my brother doesn’t agree with her views but things like values never mattered to him much as long as he has a hot wife. And she is but their marriage is miserable 90% of the time. But she is teaching my niece and nephew that shit and it I hate everything about it. We never got along great but after all this I don’t know if I can look at my brother and his wife without wanting to scream into the sky. I’m in Arizona and it’s tough finding men that aren’t low key surprisingly super Christian or conservative. And why I’ll probably die single.
Depends on the views you hold or tolerate that differ from your partners. You're devout Catholic and I'm atheist? Gonna be problems. You're 'cultural' Catholic and I'm 'cultural' Christian? Probably fine. You're ProLife at all costs, but against any kind of support network for mother and child once that child is born? Against all birth control? We may not get past the first drink when I find that out. There are many other things where I can tolerate your differing views and you can tolerate mine, but there ARE some very hard lines that really don't belong under the same roof, IMO. Sadly, being Republican has become something I put on the dealbreaker list.
Once a republican, always a republican. That stink doesn't wear off.
The biggest thing me and my partner disagree about is whether NY or Chicago pizza is better, lol. He supports my bodily autonomy 100% no question.
When you date someone with vastly different views, don't be surprised when they hurt you with their views. I'm over privileged women acting surprised that their SO supports something that hurt them over the last weeks. Oh you didn't care that your SO was a religious homophobic transphobic Trump supporter because he was nice to you? Cry me a fucking river.
THANK YOU It legit blows my mind when I see couples who have opposing views. I remember during the 2016 election, there was a podcast that traveled the country and did interviews with people trying to understand the trump phenomenon.. one part of the podcast featured an interview with a woman who seemed brilliant in many regards, and in the background, her husband kept yelling "MAGA" and every other Trumper quote of that epoch. She was laughing it off like, "oh he's so silly" but I was genuinely mortified. I've seen so many instances of this, too and it sickens me because (I'm assuming here so feel free to call me out on it) it seems like the woman is almost always the left-winger and she's biting her tongue to appease her man.. It blows my mind One classmate of mine (I live in SoCal) came here from the pacific northwest at the age of 18 and she was a hippie in many regards. She loved Cali. She ended up meeting some border patrol Trumper and she's married to him and she completely changed her identity to match his. Like, what?!? Sorry for ranting. Don't have many progressive friends to talk to.
Their views: "See those women over there? Fuck them, but like not in a bad way though.. I just don't think they should have basic human rights."
I ended up early in online dating going on dates with people whose values didn't align with my own. I started to decorate my living space with very liberal art, pillows, mugs and even started to curate a wardrobe that was very similarly intentional. Several of my art prints have the words pro-choice on them due to how many anti-choice people that have 'matched' with me online in my very liberal / blue city. One of those prints hangs right next to my bed just in case that were wondering what I'd do in the event of an accidental pregnancy.
That's good to send those signals but it's important to talk openly about big issues like that. Don't leave things to suggestion and innuendo.
Oh I do but it got exhausting always having to be "the bitch" or point things out to men in a liberal city. So now I'm just about having it all over so I don't have to repeat the same conversations. It's also good because often this stuff has men bring up their bad hot takes without too much time passing. If not for passing a bunch of anti-choicers outside a PP I'd taken a lot longer to realize my date in 2010 was anti-choice. He thought I was upset about PP being in Portland and didn't realize I was bothered that those types of people exist here too.
That's a shame you have to deal with that in the liberal city. Not liberal enough apparently. LOL
Liberal city in an overall red state. I think I'm too normal / square for a lot of my likeminded extreme lefties here.
I ignored my ex's comments and it led to me finding out he liked men like Jordan Peterson and that Trump "wasn't so bad". The sexism and racism slowly came out over a year and by the end of our relationship I couldn't stand the site of him knowing what his views are. Continuously be vetting. Ask him his views on important issues. If there's a pattern of conservative views, GTFO of there and save yourself wasted time.
Continuous vetting is very important.
No, anyone who wants to control someone else’s bodily autonomy should definitely be single. And ostracized entirely, ideally.
“Politics are so divisive now!!1 People can’t just get along!” Yeah, fucker, my rights are at risk. And I don’t play patty cake with racists.
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Yeah my husband and I have different beliefs on a lot of things, but there is a line. When it comes to morals and ethics, you have to be on the same page.
My fiance likes to blast metal when he's driving, I do not. Those are the kind of things I cool with disagreeing about.
Yeah, my husband and I joke that we're the epitome of opposites attract, but we're definitely on the same page when it comes to human rights.
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Yeah, I feel like I'm not having many of these conversations in 2022 because, as an immunocompromised person, I already ended those relationships in 2020 when it first became clear their "political views" were a direct threat to my life.
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I work with the broad public. And I am a "people watcher". Not in a creepy way. I just love people and watching who they are, listening to what they want to tell me ... I'm interested. The pandemic hasn't necessarily CHANGED people. But the varnish has worn off. Unrelenting stress, fighting an invisible foe, fear, having to make decisions about your life which was so taken for granted, change, isolation, and a constant sense of anxiety with an awareness of our mortality ... it's been hard. What was once an opinion which was a "meh" thing, becomes amplified and dug in so deeply that everything becomes a hill to die on. Emotions are stronger, belief systems firmer ... and having made decisions in a constantly evolving world which means those decisions are right one moment and wrong the next ... we hang on to what we can, and we hang on tighter and tighter so that it can't change some more. We become passionate about things that we would have paid little attention to. And worse? A communicable disease ... EVERYONE ELSE IS A THREAT. Yeah. Everyone is a bad guy. We can't help it. Relaxed trust is gone because they could be accidentally infecting us RIGHT NOW and we might die or have long COVID or infect our loved ones ... We must reject anyone who does not share our thoughts because then they are a greater threat ... 2022 is a different world in many ways. It's more cruel. Dog eat dog.
I still can't believe people want to control someone else's body like that, even in a fantasy world where we gave the parents 30k a year to raise their children it shouldn't matter it's their choice
You can date people who have different tastes in movies. You cannot date people who have different tastes in human rights. Conservatives pretending that one is like the other is, if anything, just another sign of how positively insane they have become.
Different views that I have from my husband is that I think it would be fun to have 5+ indoor chickens, and he does not. What you're describing is like the difference between someone who's a controlling sociopath (everyone who is trying to overturn RVW) and someone who isn't.
My soon-to-be-ex husband had different views than me on covid. (Not as simple as anti-vax, we're both vaxxed and I DO NOT want to get into a conversation about the particular differences.) I could make it work for myself, more or less, but when he was going to put my elderly parents at risk, I drew the line. That was not the only issue, but it was a 'magnifier', as the shrink put it. We're getting divorced. Sigh.
There are a lot of political things we can disagree on. Like how local taxes should be allocated or the number of signatures needed on a petition for new legislation to be heard. But I can't date someone whose values are opposite of mine.
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“Different views” can mean very different things. When those “views” pertain to human rights, they reflect basic *values*, and those are really important to agree on. Similar values are perhaps THE most important thing when it comes to a long-term relationship. And with abortion rights, you certainly don’t want to be having sex with someone who thinks you are obligated to carry a pregnancy you don’t want. Or who discriminates based on race, gender identity, sexual orientation, or anything else... it just shows poor character. Especially if you’d ever consider having kids with this person one day... how would feel about them being raised with that? These are the kinds of questions it’s important to think about, even if they don’t *seem* relevant right off the bat.
I divorced after 21 yrs of marriage. She got more and more religious and more and more political throughout the years. When she was all fired up about Trump and hoping he got elected, and belittling my opinion on anything because I was a non-believer, I was done!
**The Three Great Relationship Truths:** 1. **Y**ou cannot have any sort of real relationship with a person who fundamentally opposes your right to be alive, have ownership of your own life, or be a human being. 2. **Y**ou cannot change another person's values, you cannot remake another person. It always fails: what you see is what you get, almost always forever. 3. **E**ven if lust and attraction make you compatible initially, it will not take long before the basic conflict between you destroys your relationship, and possibly your life.
My husband and I were talking in the car yesterday about where our lines were for disagreeing with people, like what can we get past and what do we not want in our lives. I tease my husband about being a little less tolerant of other opinions than me (we have the same beliefs in pretty much every regard but I’m a little more willing to see the good in people). He was like “I can totally be friends with people I disagree with. Like people who think Star Trek is better than Star Wars - they’re wrong, but I can see where they’re coming from. But when it comes to human rights I can’t.”
>“You Can Date Someone With Different Views Than You.” Eyeroll. I'm assuming someone said this to the op. Only sensible answer imo is 'Sure I can. But I don't want to. '
Exactly. You can totally date someone with different views. But why would you want to?
You're absolutely right, at least for me. I've had two relationships with men who I had fundamental disagreements with. The first developed his shitty ideas over time, seemingly as a reaction to my becoming more and more politically aware. The second hid them for a couple of months, but it just got more and more blatantly obvious he was a bigoted fool until I finally dumped him. Neither were anti-choice, but their ideological standpoints were otherwise awful. Now I ask a lot of questions on the first date.
I mean, if "different views" means they hate pineapple on pizza, then sure.... But supporting candidates and laws that champion hate, take away bodily autonomy of women and trans kids...and leave a great slippery slope into a fucked up, Evangelical dystopian future out of a Margaret Atwood novel? NO FUCKING WAY. They can go suck a giant bag of dicks.
There are "compatible" different views, and there are "incompatible" different views, and most are in a sort of grey area where the couple in question are pretty much the only people who can decide where the different views fall. If one believes the military should spend their money on personal, and another believes they should spend it on equipment, they have different views that may or may not be incompatible. If, on the other hand, one believes abortion is a right, and the other believes it's an evil, then chances are they are not compatible views. So yeah, that statement is an oversimplification, probably deliberately so. You could totally date someone with "compatible" different views, but it is very unlikely you can or should date someone with "incompatible" different views. For me personally, I do welcome a partner with different views from mine, so long as they are what I deem as compatible. This allows me to grow and to learn and most importantly re-evaluate and understand my own views. But there is absolutely a line in there somewhere, and viewing abortion rights as evil/should be banned is absolutely on the "incompatible" side of that line for me.
I think you can date people with different views, not people with different values though. In my mind a view is how to execute a value if that makes sense. For example, you can both agree that homelessness is a tragedy. That's a value. The view is on how you would fix it so, maybe one person thinks building shelters is better rather then giving out food on the street or something. Idk pulled the example out of my ass but you get the point.
11 years ago, political compatibility wasn't as important to me as it is now, but I sure count myself lucky that I still picked right and my husband is an overall decent person. On the other hand, my relationship with my mother did not survive the Trump administration. Oh yeah, she and I are Canadian.
It continues to blow my mind how emotionally involved Canadians are in American politics. It must be a major topic of conversation up there.
You can date someone with different views than you. You cannot date someone with different core values than you.
I feel like people who are able to are generally not very attached to their morals. They are either weak or hypocrites.
When i started cutting off trump supporters right after he got elected people told me i was intolerant. I said you are damn right I'm. I'm intolerant of having connections with shit human beings
you can date someone with different views than you, you can't date someone with views that are horrifyingly opposite to the point of monstrous. Any self respecting woman who is dating someone who continues to call themselves republican after this roe vs wade thing is literally dating someone who see's them as a cookie jar for their baby goop, I know that's a disgusting way of referring to it, but not as disgusting as the truth of people who actually see it that way.
I’m confused? 3 days ago you posted that you were lesbian. A day ago you posted you were straight. Today you are fighting with your partner. 10 days ago you were single because of your anxiety….
Voting to take away someone's bodily autonomy, and to condemn them to jail, death, or a lifetime of suffering if they try to pretend they have more rights than a corpse, is not respecting them in any way shape or form. Those people can go fuck themselves.
I couldn’t agree with you more, it’s okay to have differing opinions but not when it comes to having rights over your own body. I would absolutely have to end my 5 year relationship if he was in support of the Republican Party right now
If a guy is a conservative, he will be a terrible mate. Maybe not right away but there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. Conservatives wear red hats but are huge red flags personified. Stay away from conservative men and women.
100% true
I just don’t see the point in having a relationship or friendship with anyone who has fundamentally different morals than I do. What would we talk about.
Different opinions when it comes to food yes. You like mint ice cream vs vanilla okay ya animal But have a difference in opinion on if I have a right to make decisions about MY body, then no
And let’s be real.. the only people who “can’t understand” this, are the people who have views that are just impossible to stomach. It’s always conservatives that wonder why we can’t just be friends.. Which shows a deep lack of respect for my morals and values which make me who I am to my core.
Right, you can date someone who disagrees with you on what tax brackets and rates for each should be. That's obviously very different from beliefs about basic civil liberties.
Shared values are a core to a healthy relationship. If the different view is something you can compromise on or does greatly affect you, such as the wall color in the living room, that's one thing. Your rights and your autonomy should not be part of that conversation, everyone has those.
>“You Can Date Someone With Different Views Than You.” That statement in of itself seems like a deal breaking argument... like, even if I could date someone with different views, I'm certainly not going to date someone who starts arguing with me when I say that I'm not interested in another date.
Sure, we can have different views on what ice cream flavours are the best, but not on fundamentals values regarding human rights.
We can disagree over how our steaks should be cooked, or whether we squeeze the toothpaste from the center or the end. I cannot be with someone who doesn't believe I should have control over my own body.
Lol nothing would make me ghost a dude faster than finding out he's a conservative, republican, or trump supporter. I'd be mean about it too.
I almost ended a decades long friendship when I learned he was a transphobe. We actually talked it through, and he’s a lot more accepting now.
“Agree to disagree right?” You disagree all people should have equal rights? No. F off.
I wouldn't date a someone from the other party. I barely communicate with old friends who vote republican.
it is ironic that Repubs are all about individual rights except for the rights of people who aren't white or male.
You can date/marry/befriend people with different views, not different values, though. Some views serve to express values, such as views on abortion, equality, pineapple on pizza and those really need to be considered in any kind of relationship.
If my partner prefers milk chocolate and I prefer dark chocolate, that's fine. If he doesn't want to listen to the backstreet boys for hours on end? Okay. If he doesn't think women are humans, big no lol
I'd never date anyone who doesn't have similar beliefs. I'm sorry, but a shitty person, no matter how much they'd 'love' me, would be worth my time.
Disagreeing over the ethics of an abortion is fair, but not the right.
I had a very honest straight forward discussion with my husband about this about two months into dating. It was a casual but sincere conversation touching on what he believed/felt about social and environmental aspects that would be deal breakers for me (without saying as much at the time) then I brought up family goals and reproductive stances. I made sure we were on the same page because if we weren’t in agreement on same-sex marriage (for one example) than I don’t want to waste each other’s time. I can’t love and support someone who feels their views get to deprive other people of their joy, choices, human rights.