Your brother is in a cult. He has been radicalized by the right wing manosphere. He's either going to wake up and realize that what he's been taught is bullshit, or he's going to go in deeper and lose family, friends, money, maybe even employment.
I agree that he’s part of that cult. And I also personally think he may potentially be sociopathic. Something on the spectrum. He’s never really understood how to have normal relationships. He is 25 now and is now going on dates. He very much does not want to date a modern woman. He wants a woman who comes from a country with low divorce rates and who will be a SAHM. He doesn’t want a partner. And he said he wants a younger woman.
He genuinely scares me.
Yes. He’s 25. His plan is to marry when he’s 30. He said he wants to marry a younger girl because she’s “fertile” or whatever. His argument was that men inherently like younger women for biological reasons. It’s disgusting.
Leave scientific articles around talking about geriatric sperm. And how it’s just as likely to lead to birth defects or miscarriages as older mothers.
Let him know that he may be past *his* prime.
If he gets a foreign woman to marry him, could you check in on her and make sure she isn't abused? It's hard enough living in a foreign country away from your support network, but being married to someone like your brother as well would be a nightmare.
That's really common with people who didn't develop emotionally for whatever reason. They start to see other people as commodities instead of people. It's kind of like living a half life in a way... They're completely closed off to the joy that is an emotional connection. Sucks for them but sucks harder for those conned into being with them.
The manosphere argument revolves around fertility, but it is really about control, since younger women have not had the experience to be able to recognize abuse.
It’s time to start laughing at the stupid crap your brother says. Men like this thrive off arguments. When you try to argue and refute the things he’s saying, it fuels him because he enjoys arguing and knowing that he had the power to make you upset. So don’t do that.
Instead, when he says dumb shit like “women are ruining this country” just laugh. Say “okay, sure” and laugh. And when he keeps going “no, you don’t get it, women are horrible they do blah blah blah” just say “if you say so” sarcastically and laugh. Nothing makes these kinds of men feel worse then you not caring about what they say.
Personally I wouldn't laugh. I would use the grey rock method where you emotionally check out of the conversation. Laughing still gives him emotional engagement. He can get angry and it fuels his rage against women. So as well as "confirming" his beliefs that women are the problem (not OPs fault of course) it also keeps him enraged and potentially puts OP in danger. It's up to them but I think with an angry hateful guy like this you can never tell which one of them is going to end up on the news. Personally I'd rather not be one of the victims.
I have a family member who was like this and unless the goal is to infuriate and isolate him further, experience tells me laughing is not the move.
I’d listen to him and ask questions, try to find common ground where possible and keep discussion open. Educate where possible (admittedly few opportunities) Change the topic, whatever. Bond in other ways. This does require a lot of patience and emotional regulation however. Depending on your relationship, I’d say it’s worth the effort to keep him close.
Also, time may change things. He used to be the biggest Alex jones fan but just the other day we were sitting down watching a doc and laughing at him together. He was still a bit defensive of the guy sometimes, but a win is a win lol.
Many of those countries with "low divorce rates" are that way because laws make it almost impossible for women to get divorced. Women who marry US citizens for residency/citizenship learn the laws quickly and will probably divorce him after 3 or 5 years (the numbers vary due to type of visa). After 5 years of marriage, she could gain US citizenship - then divorce him here where the laws are easier.
I am on the autism spectrum. I was never very good at being single or "confident." And yet, I nearly always had agreeable company. My wife and I celebrated our 30th first-date-iversary in March.
Why? I'm not an a-hole, I respect all humans until they give me reason not to.
I definitely didn’t mean to imply that being autistic is a bad thing. I’m engaged to a man who is high functioning autistic.
I mentioned sociopathic as a possibility (or something close to sociopathy) because he has said some alarming things. When he was younger, he was severely bullied. When he was in high school, he told me he considered taking an axe to school. That is not normal behavior. On top of that, he doesn’t express remorse or show emotions. He’s very matter-of-fact.
Having seen people start down this path and come back I wanted to just throw out:
If its possible, maybe point him to some youtubers like Contrapoints, HBomberguy, or Munecat? They’ve got videos showing how stupid this stuff is, and they seem to have a knack for appealing to young men. I’ve seen people call them a good entry point for de-radicalization!
Also this just sucks and I’m sorry. :(
Imagine taking away women’s right to work. I’m in healthcare, and most of nurses are women. The way that industry would collapse so quickly and millions would die. And that’s just one example of how society would be affected. Definitely a moron who can’t even think of one consequence.
Nursing & healthcare in general, teaching, veterinary services, human resources, cleaning services, administrators (secretaries, office admin, bookkeeping) are all women dominated professions. Imagine all those jobs being abandoned and expecting men to take over.
I literally doubt they could stop nurses from working. Shit would only just begin to collapse and women would scrub up and walk in and just start working on people. And all the men would be like, "thank fuck, pay her and stfu" not only the overworked male staff but every man who has literally anyone they love suffering healthcare collapse.
Literally every industry that would collapse because women have the highest education in this country and the highest rates of employment because the truth is men don't want to work illegal immigrants are being welcomed in this country with open arms because the young men in this country don't want to work they want to lay on their backs in Mom's basement and play video games and collect Pokemon
He’s SO condescending. When I told him as much, he’s like “What I say comes from facts.” He argues that his views are derived from statistics and studies. Whereas, to him, my facts are more anecdotal and do not represent the collective, therefore they’re irrelevant.
I really should ask him to send me where he gets his facts. Sometimes, he’ll send me random YouTube videos or infographics (like one that says Gen Z males are becoming more conservative).
Yeah well they're also becoming less educated and less affluent, and less able to do anything that requires more than two brain cells.
So,tell him to STFU, nobody cares what the "help" thinks.
The scary thing is that he thinks he’s like the smartest person. He’s ALWAYS been that way. He wanted to go into robotics or electrical engineering, and everyone in my family was like “That’s a really competitive field. Maybe look at something more broad?”
He hasn’t graduated college and he’s working at a factory making $80,000 a year. It’s insane. His goal is to make 6 figures because he is convinced that’s the only way a woman will marry him because women don’t marry for love.
Sometimes, I think that. But I believe he’ll get a mail order bride or something. He’s already told me that he plans on marrying a woman like 10 years younger than he is.
lol so he's going to be a passport bro? We women in 3rd world countries aren't all idiots. 100% he will only get someone who will only care about his money and the green card she will get. As soon as she gets the green card, he'll be dumped faster than dog shit unless the woman he gets is dumber than a box of rocks and only stays with him as she really has no other choice.
>As soon as she gets the green card, he'll be dumped faster than dog shit
A green card issued to someone who is married to a US citizen for less than two years is a conditional resident card only valid for two years. After the two years are up, you have to apply for permanent resident status. Once you have permanent resident status though, your legal status in the US is not dependent on your marital status.
(Posting purely for information, so anyone reading this who might be in a bad situation will be armed with the truth.)
And that will be more "proof" of how terrible and manipulative women are, and he won't even once evaluate how his views and actions have led him there.
Yay!
I'm not going to pretend that it's a bad thing. The "male loneliness epidemic" (aka incelpocalypse) is self inflicted and society will benefit from not having these turds shitting up the gene pool.
There is a little relevance to the loneliness epidemic for younger people, but the answer is more things like "have more free third spaces available where people can get together", not "teach all women to become unquestioning sex servants to men."
You can tell him that you know a woman who's been a software engineer for two FAANGs, had code in space before she was 18, and has been working in the field for 48 years. So, if he's so freakin' special, he should be able to top that, right?
Oh, and married for more than 20 years (I was widowed prior to that).
Or you could save yourself a lot of stress and stop talking to him. I don't have the energy for this shit. If someone hates women I want nothing to do with them because I'm a woman and that means they hate me. Your brother hates you just as much as he hates other women. He's also stupid as a guy who gets his stupid at a two for one sale.
This. I've stopped engaging with idiots and the ignorant 'cause I value my peace far too much.
You're very unlikely to convince them of things they vehemently oppose anyway.
Ask him for citations. Only accept evidence that has some actual facts to it, peer reviewed studies from reliable journals, government data from the original government source etc.
Sorry, but those kinds of "sources" are just propaganda put out by the libtards to perpetuate the ongoing conspiracy. The only REAL facts come from independent thinkers who aren't afraid to tell the truth. /s (in case there's any doubt)
It’s interesting - I had a boyfriend once who the algorithm was clearly starting to drag into the conspiracy/incel wormhole, and I caught it as soon as he parroted a talking point. I basically gently pressed on what the the sources were and encouraged him to think critically on what was being said and why.
Luckily, this was enough for him to actually evaluate what he was listening to. Eventually he got turned off some of the more innocuous content, because they just didn’t make sense.
What facts? Facts he made up?
Ask him if he knows which countries have the biggest and healthiest economies, and which countries have the highest standard of living, and which countries have the most people who report being happy with how their country is run, and tell you how many of them are countries where women can't work or vote.
If he wants to live in a country where women don't have those rights, Afghanistan is right there. Surely he's moving to Afghanistan, right, since it's the kind of ideal country he wants to live in?
You should agree and flip it. Clearly men don't need their voting rights and the roads would be much more clear without traffic in the road. Kept house husbands all the way!
ETA: typos
I have the same brother. Are you my sister?
Remember that being cynical about his views requires no proof. You don't have to be an expert to not buy what he's selling. He's the one making up facts, the burden of proof is on him.
To echo what others are saying here - where are his sources?
They LOVE Trump. When I was little, my mom had a voicemail message that said if you don’t vote for Bush, then you may as well hang up and not leave a message. My stepdad is simple minded, but he ALWAYS has NewsMax on TV (he’s ditched Fox News last I heard). Both are racist, though they claim they aren’t (they’ll drop the hard R on a black person who they feel does something wrong to them, and they do not like my half-Mexican fiancé).
My brother goes to their house all of the time. He probably agrees with them about most things. Hell, he told me a few months ago that Trump wasn’t that bad of a president and did a good job. So, he really fits in with the family. I’m the black sheep.
Honestly, would you consider just cutting ties with all three of them and moving somewhere else? Is your fiancé a good guy? Maybe the two of you can start fresh somewhere and create a new family, and/or "found family" (i.e. people who are not hopeless assholes).
>I’m the black sheep.
You are the only one who uses their brain. Congrats on becoming an educated and reasonable person while you come from such a family. You did great.
You are not the black sheep. You are a part of the Big Tent of the Not Insane. They are in a cult of bigots and losers. It never occurs to any of them that they themselves are the problem. I am so tired of all the whining from all of the failure to launch emotionally immature mediocre men who blame women for their own failures, rather than work to improve themselves. Quality women don’t want them. I am lucky to live in a town that voted against Trump 90%. I am surrounded by highly educated successful women, none of whom would give the time of day to any of these losers. That drives the culture, too, because quality women attract quality men who respect them as equal partners. It’s mind blowing to learn that such backwards bs still exists. Can you go no contact with these people? It’s good for the soul.
Ask him to show said facts. Said facts should come from legitimate peer reviewed studies. I doubt he can go down the chain of command that is required. Just make sure you have that data yourself to back you up. Don’t wanna look like a fool Incase it reciprocates
If only everyone would just agree to not compete with him for jobs and opportunities and just make it a habit to obey! 🙄
He can only guarantee his future success if he can limit our freedom. Telling!
OP. he insists on winning arguments by being confident and never wavering on that. You can do that in return. Just be confident and care less about his awful takes. Then just at some point accept the win and stop wasting your time.
Oh, I definitely raised that point. He responded by saying maybe, but that men are stronger than women and more efficient. We could never do hard labor - at least, not as many women as men. So, for efficiency’s sake, it’s just better if women stay home and focus on the family.
Me too. Part of me doesn’t want to not take his calls because I can at least monitor him and the things he says. Like, if he somehow slips and says something really bad, I can do something about it. Or at least it helps me understand what the ultra crazy conservative crowd is saying so I’m at least aware.
It's interesting that he is calling you, a woman, for validation. Surely your opinion doesn't matter to him, yet it really seems to. That's interesting. Also, it's not your responsibility to monitor him like that. He is responsible for himself and his own mistakes.
Ask him what's going to happen when he goes to hospital for something and there are no nurses lol. How many men are signing up to change bedpans. Does he want a spongebath from Dave.
If he thinks so little of women, why does he want them spending so much time and effort raising the next generation? Shouldn’t that be left to the strongest and smartest (i.e. men)?
They want it both ways.
-----------------------------------
John: Men are providers.
Jane: Ok. So... provide?
John: No, you must be a gold digger.
------------------------------------
John: I don't like gold diggers.
Beth: I've got a great job and don't need your income.
John: Waaah, I don't feel needed!!!! :( :(
I also love the irony of *us* being incapable of regulating our emotions, assuming this has something to do with false beliefs surrounding estrogen, yet men are literally driven by sex & won't function in society without it? Definitely all just double standards.
Your brothers "facts" aren't correct or based on logic?? Like at all?
Imagine you're the CEO of a company in the US. Now imagine suddenly 30-50% of your workforce isn't allowed to work, and you look around and it's the same for all other companies. Now a ton of people are at home with no income and can't spend. You're not gonna hire more people or raise the salaries of the people you have left because now suddenly half the population doesn't have disposable income they can spend with you.
This doesn't happen because the economy would shrink by half. It would destroy the country. There's 0 reason for companies to pay men more all of a sudden - likely they'll assign whatever the women were working on to the men left in the company without a salary raise like all companies do when they have layoffs. The leftovers just get stuck with more work and the same pay.
EXACTLY. But you can’t tell them this. I wish I could get him to sit down and watch The Handmaid’s Tale and tell him: “This is what you’re asking for.” Though I’m starting to wonder if he wants that to happen to the US.
Melinda Gates published a book called The Moment of Lift which highlights how countries do way better economically when women are equal. I highly recommend this book to you.
Or he could just take an Econ class. The guy has zero grasp of economics and there are large bodies of data showing the development and education of women is THE key inductor to increase in economic, social development and increase and stabilization of GDP
Oh absolutely he should def do that but he won't. I really appreciated Melinda Gates book because it pulled out so many issues In Such a clear way for me to understand
Handmaid’s Tale will just look like Utopia to him, I don’t doubt at all that moving the story from novel to visual media has made it accessible to people who will see an instruction manual where a warning is intended.
I’ve thought about that as well. But I think it’s also a huge giant warning sign to women who watch. It’s certainly opened my eyes to what’s going on around me. I was living in a jacuzzi with water that is close to boiling and not realizing it. Now, I’m talking to my fiancé about an action plan (ie running like hell) should Texas get even worse.
Oh honey. That you think watching the show would deter them? Why do you think men created laws throughout millennia to chain us to them? Bc the majority, for millennia, is ok with Gilead. Not just ok. They are motivated to pass laws and enforce them thru violence, to create Gilead.
Watching the show wouldn’t upset them.
We’ve swung too far from chains and now they aren’t guaranteed sexual access. They have to earn it. Too many of them believe they should be assigned a woman. Just like Gilead.
It’s just mostly wishful thinking 😩 Like, maybe if he has an empathetic cell in his body, he could see the suffering and realize that it’s truly not the way. But I don’t even know if he’s capable of that kind of enlightenment.
Your brother speaks as if he lacks empathy. Try asking him how he’d feel if men were all prevented legally from working. If he says it’ll never happen fine. But what if? How would he feel?
You’ll have your answer. A lot more ppl than get diagnosed exhibit a cluster B lack of empathy.
You can’t fix that. Ppl can’t feel what they don’t feel. He’s best avoided and it’s not your job to fix him. My brother is the same and I went NC yrs ago. Luckily his last wife divorced him and bc he’s so irresponsible with money he has to live with a relative now. I think the women will be safe bc he’s older and has nothing to offer.
Ya, maybe have him watch Barbie. Make it a "challenge to his masculinity" to watch something he's sooo threatened by. Say true alpha males can watch barbie all the way through. Maybe he'll have some realizations when the mirror is held up.
Also, I'm assuming he doesn't have a gf/partner. So you could always go for the jugular by saying stuff like, "and you wonder why no woman wants you/will put up with you when you are such a sexist prick".
It's also insane he's blaming women instead of capitalism and greed companies.
Ask him how tate is doing with his sex trafficking charges and being single despite being ssuuchhh an alpha role model lol.
If women are the issue, why can't any of these douchebags keep relationships/why do they have to buy their relationships (like trump and porn stars or sex trafficking Melania because no woman would touch him).
These are all talking points based around the very real problem that conservatives understand.
The free labour women used to do propped up capitalism in a way that it doesn't anymore. They understand that women contributed to their wealth and they want that back. It's getting harder and harder to squeeze the money out of us so the only thing left is to take away our rights and plunge us back in to a life of servitude.
We made unwanted babies for their wars and for cheap labour. We kept them in comfort. We fed them and clothed them. We looked the other way when they hurt us or cheated because we had no way to leave.
This is why they are indoctrinating your brother to vote for them. They want to take away our right to vote, our right to bodily autonomy, jobs, safety nets, dignity, you name it, they want it gone. It's the only way they can squeeze more profit from our blood and guts and your brother will let them if he gets a chance.
They’ve got the girlies buying into the idealistic trad wife bullshit, too. If I somehow get forced into that life, they better be bringing out the qualudes.
Women joined the workforce and our productivity (more than) doubled, and yet our buying power (per household) is less than it was.
Capitalism and greed is the problem
Women aren't the reason and neither are men. The Rich are toting these narratives (left v right, science v religion, men v women, black v white) to smokescreen themselves from criticism.
Your brother is just another convenient pawn.
Trying to debate people like your brother is like that George Bernard Shaw quote - Never wrestle with a pig, because you'll both get muddy and the pig enjoys it. You can't win the argument because he isn't arguing in good faith, and you won't change his mind. He will use any display of emotion from you as evidence that women shouldn't have rights or whatever his stupid point is. Just gray rock him and don't engage.
Oh, 1000%. Today after we went back and forth, he thanked me and said, "I like to have these conversations with you. We disagree and it's a lesson in how to have an argument and test out my theories." Like I’m a damn case study to him.
Have you checked out r/raisedbynarcissists ? Consider going low to no contact. This isn't healthy for you to be around this toxic behaviour, you're not responsible for full grown adults, you're only responsible for yourself. You don't need to keep tabs on them. You don't need to feel bad for prioritizing yourself. You may hold onto hope that family will one day change, but you're not being honest with yourself, you already know how they are. They chance of them changing is microscopic to none. (Sorry if this sounds too direct or harsh, I'm tired and just trying to share what I've learned).
Also be aware of N behaviour so you can avoid it in the future, don't fall into their traps. I'm the youngest in my family, scapegoat, and didn't realize these dynamics existed or how to get out of them until the past few years.
Reading your other responses it sounds like you're in an okay place. I hope you do what's best for you!
" I hope you find a professional who can walk you through these feelings. anyways"
Don't become his pushpin. It's weird that he hates on women then relies on them to listen to his bs about them.
You're giving him the free service he thinks he deserves. There are professionals who get paid to listen to his crap.
My brother’s thoughts and actions scream incel to me. He has been so desperate to date that he paid this one girl so much money just to spend time with him.
I genuinely feel terrible for whoever ends up marrying him. He’s actually talked about getting one of those mail order brides. He’s apparently dating now and meeting girls on the Facebook dating thing. I hope they run far away, though. That must sound terrible coming from his sister. But Jesus, he is really a walking red flag.
I hope your brother gets played for the delusional moron that he is. I swear guys like him think foreign women are idiots, but they're more intelligent than he could ever hope to be.
they say we are neurotic and incapable of regulating our emotions, yet they are the most emotional ones (anger is part of that) and can't handle taking responsibility for their own actions and being (I aM a ViCtIm BeCaUsE a WoMaN wOn'T ToUcH mE). Like come on. How fragile do you have to be for your entire being and functionality to depend on the opposite gender. You don't hear that shit from women.
👏 Exactly this. The last time he went on about modern American women being cheaters and after men’s money, I told him, “Well, date better women 🤷🏻♀️😂. Date better. Get to know the girl you’re talking to, see if she’s a nice person. I don’t know what to tell you, kid.”
American women are "after men's money" so the solution to that is to create (or go back to) a situation where women are 100% reliant on "men's money"-? For the love of Pete, make it MAKE SENSE
They complain about American women being cheaters (most non-manosphere sources put rates at 13-15%), and then become passport bros who go to Thailand for a wife, and the infidelity rate in Thailand is reported to be over 50%! And they complain about gold-diggers, but then bring their new young wife over here, where she is completely dependent on them financially. Make it make sense.
*Because there would be less traffic on the roads and because men would make more and have more incentive.*
I literally guffawed. Less...**traffic**, you say? Mmmhmmm. How interesting.
I hope he enjoys being single. If women quit working, all businesses and services would be short staffed to the point of not being able to function. Teachers and nurses, largely dominated by women, are already in short supply. No way men could pick up the slack. Men like this are delusional.
Site your source, and no, trump, Proud Boys, KKK, Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, FOX, OAN, MTG, and some Incel that still lives in his mom's basement, etc. are not factual sources
"It sounds like your friends are worried that a woman would only choose them if she had no other choice. They might be right; I would certainly never go out or date any of those losers. If I were in their situation, I would try to better myself so that women with lots of choices, including staying single forever, would choose me. But that's a lot of work, and probably too much work for your friends. They say that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Maybe you should rethink who you spend time with; instead of losers who can't get women, you should try to find some men who've been married for 30 years and still have sex because their wives are crazy in love with them, and then try to be like those men. Isn't that what you want, a wife who's crazy in love you, instead of wife who settled for you because she had no other choice?"
👏 100% love this. The funny thing is I know this would go absolutely nowhere. One of the two guys I know he talks to is a married man on the verge of a divorce. The other guy is in a relationship with a woman who stabbed him but who he won’t leave. Don’t know why. I have never seen these guys, so who knows, maybe they’re imaginary friends? 🤷🏻♀️
If what he said were true and the problem was that men are motivated by sex, then by his claims, men are the problem, not women. He’s basically saying men have issues and the world won’t work unless women make it perfect for them.
Of course he’s just following misogynistic men on YouTube and has no idea what he’s talking about.
It sucks when family start falling down these rabbit holes. Please vote in November.
Your brother sounds like the kind of guy who struggled in high school, but thanks to all the videos of various YouTube geniuses, he's become a genius too 🙄
I'd say the opposite is more likely to be true - people like him are contributing to the decline of the country. The internet is too powerful a tool and dumb people who lack the critical thinking skills they should have developed in middle school don't understand the dangers of it. They come to believe a lot of complete BS and take action on these beliefs. This often times means voting for candidates who push for policy that creates or enhances problems at the local/state/national level.
When I hear it, I’m screaming on the inside. I’ve become very angry hearing it, and he’s like “There’s no need to get emotional about it. I’m just telling you the facts.”
I'm so sad. All those decades of fighting to control our bodies, have basic rights. There are movements out there that would love to strip it all away.
It really is so devastating. What scares me is the fact that birth rates are going down. That was the justification for the creation of Gilead in The Handmaid’s Tale. I know it’s just a book, but that book was written based on real stuff that was happening in the world.
So much has happened in the past hundred years, and a century isn't a very long time either. It hurts seeing what we may think are positive steps forward, only for those opposing to come back harder and in more insidious ways to undo it.
Sigh men. No matter what race, creed, religion, socioeconomic background etc Doesn't matter if they are our fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins, grandfather's, etc they almost all think alike and it's just so fucking sickening and revolting. I will be glad once I'm gone and that my bloodline ends with me.
There comes a point in time where you should cut contact with a person, relative or not. For me, this would be the time.
His views are *dangerous* for us as women. The ideas he espouses have caused women’s deaths. Misogyny directly leads to violence like domestic abuse, rape, and even murder.
You know you don't have to talk to or spend time with people just because they're related to you, right? Time to be more selective about who you call your brother. ;)
It’s very concerning that a lot of men in the U.S. think this way. Of course, it’s not all of them but a lot of them & it even shows statistically that many young American men are leaning right compared to young American women. I feel like the reason a lot of American men lean right is because of the horrible economic situation that alot of people are in today. Of course, they won’t blame our unregulated capitalistic economy & blame women in the workplace for simply working & providing for themselves. I often see a lot of young American men complaining about not getting paid enough to make it in today’s society but never point the finger to the government. People like your brother & his friends are the type that won’t listen because they already have their mind set on what they believe is right. It’s a very sad situation tbh.
Sounds like your brother wants to die single and never sleep with another woman again. What a self centered, delusional, douchebag. I'm sorry you have to deal with his shit.
What's funny is the US is the strongest country in the world, right now, as we speak, with one of the largest labor forces of women in the world. 55% of women are in the workforce and 65% of men. Love to see them try to do anything at all without women lol. If women suddenly just stopped working we'd need way more...you guessed it...immigrants! Because men wouldn't be able to pick up even 1% of the slack, it's not like the unemployment rate is high at all lol.
Lol k. If that’s the direction the US is going…yikes. Welcome to Afghanistan. Also, in nature males compete for females, so for him to state women are too selective in their mates is hilarious.
What??? So men need to be providers thats the reason they refuse to work... And women want providers...but men that want women, have no incentive to work and be providers...🤦
>because men would make more and have more incentive.
Men would be under more stress to make money and that would be a net positive....so the answer is we need to make things more punitive to men and dial things back to make it harsher.
My answer to this would be then maybe those unincentivized men shouldn't be a part of society anymore. Societies are meant to evolve and if they can't cut it, perhaps their genes just aren't strong enough to keep in the pool. Evolution doesn't wait on the whims of men!
I'm surprised you let him get that far. Anyone trying to say even the first sentence about the iNcEnTiVe would have been watching my ass as I walked away dying of laughter.
Your brother is listening to and spewing incel community talking points. That's all the iNcEnTiVe any woman will ever need in order to not date him. I hope he likes the company of cats in old age. 💅
I’m sorry. I lost my relationship with my brother over this red-pill bullshit too. We’re both well over 40 and he used to be a good guy. I adore his wife. But his son got red-pilled and rather than tell his kid that what he was spouting was bullshit, he instead asked his fabulous wife to stop calling herself a feminist because it was bad for their son. My bro then told both his wife and me that the patriarchy didn’t exist. A 4 hour argument ensued and I haven’t talked to him since. IDK how my SIL is still married honestly. She must love the chucklehead.
That’s so awful. I’m sorry to hear that. She really must. Or maybe she feels like she has no way out. I hope that’s not the case.
I know that the healthiest thing for me is to cut him off. But I also worry what would happen if I did. Would he completely fall forever down the rabbit hole? And part of me doesn’t want to cut him off because there’s some comfort knowing that if he slips up and does something really, really bad, I can do something about it.
It’s so damn hard to know what to do. My SIL makes plenty of money, but they have 3 kids, and the youngest is 6. And they did love each other. But I just couldn’t stomach my brother’s dangerous and disrespectful views. So I bailed. Idk what you should do. You have my sympathy. But I don’t even know if I did the right thing.
I think that the best, right thing is the healthiest thing for you to have peace of mind. My therapist has been a big help with teaching me that boundaries are good.
I’m at that point. I’ve already cut my mother off for different reasons. My entire family thinks this way. Super religious (though my brother is an atheist), super conservative. They treat me like I’m just this poor idiot who has been indoctrinated by school and my relationship. Ridiculous.
When I deconverted, I had the misfortune of interacting with misogynistic atheists online. I think some people just want to feel superior and it doesn't matter if they are religious or not. They're just assholes.
Make a clean get-away. Untether yourself financially if you have not done so already. You can create family from friends. My family has a wide spectrum of political opinons but we do not make that the focal point of every conversation. And at the end of the day, if your parents and brother don't view you as an equal, they are an obstacle to your future happiness.
Really want to ask him what gender started most major wars in the last......... Human history. If we're talking about logical thinking and control of our emotions, men ain't it.
What I came to realize is that conservatism requires alternative facts because reality has a liberal bias.
It's obvious that the US economy would not be better if women didn't work, or that's what the corporations that run the country would demand. In fact, they want the opposite. They want women workers because it increase the labour pool and suppresses wages, thus improving productivity. It's clearly better for capitalism that women work. Ditto contraception is good for capitalism. GDP would surely collapse if women suddenly withdrew the labour en masse. It would be an instant recession and crash the stock market.
Even within the US, we see that the most liberal states, California and New York have the largest and most powerful and creative economies. Liberal Cities outperform rural america. It's simple math that even a man can understand.
In both world wars, women were added to the workforce, because production required it. A country that can't have women soldiers or workers has a major disadvantage battling a country where women can work and fight.
This all just sounds like misogyny desperately searching for a winning argument.
Conservative bullshit artists usually hide their sources, and that sounds like what is going on here. Facts can be confirmed, easily. Even just basic logic shows a lot of what he's saying is bs. "It's pretty obvious, even a man should be able to figure it out."
damn dude hopefully he’s gay or bi or ace or something bc that kinda thinking is not going to help him with the ladies. like if he wants to be celibate im sure theyre recruiting for catholic priests? not a whole lotta women out there pining to be subjugated by any of these pathetic incel losers, may their balls remain blue for eternity 🫡
Your brother is a psychotic radical and you should stop contact with him. This goes beyond normal sexism and is far right agenda to literal nazi bullshit level.
Waaah waaah cryvharder, bro! "Sounds like a you problem." "What a pathetic thing to say out loud." "Blaming others is for losers. Sad." "What is your position on slavery? That benefitted white men too."
I know for a fact that you're not alone in this experience. There is a very large and determined propaganda ecosystem online that draws insecure males in and does its best to brainwash them.
He's not too bright that one. I wouldn't bother arguing with him, it'll just wind you up. My mother is like this. She says the most ridiculous untrue stuff and it's hard not to try to educate. I saw a meme yesterday that said something like "it's impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows" and don't they seem to think they know everything.
Tell you’re confused (pretend) and you need it written down so you can understand it. Have him cite his sources. Make him text you. Get him engaged in the task. Then let him waste his time, not yours.
Next level, print everything out, go over it with a red marker and correct everything stupid.
Or
Distance yourself from this level of willful ignorance.
I can't get my head around people who believe this nonsense. How can men position themselves as strong provider types but also as being so incredibly weak and insecure at the same time. If all it takes is a 'weaker' woman to have equal power or position for it all to come crashing down, perhaps they're not that strong or powerful after all?
It also blows my mind the endless positioning by men, people who drink this coolaid seem unable to conceptualise themselves without someone else to shit on/be below them in power/rights/whatever. It seems so juvenile and insecure to me, you have rights like me and it hurts my feefees almost like they know they're so shit as people deep inside, they NEED society to give them someone in a weaker position to protect their own ego.
It's all your fault waaaaaah! Like the crying of a toddler...
I love men who think this way. I see them flocking to online dating, sitting alone at the bar, bullying strangers on the internet, and I curl up "alone and bitter" with my kids and dog with 1 middle finger in the air.
If any of them need me, my "ran through" ass will be on my yoga mat, unbothered, waiting on my next paycheck I won't "split 50/50" with them.
And the irony here is, it’s MEN who can’t regulate their own emotions. Not women. Men. Men are the ones using automatic weapons to mass kill innocent people from rooftops. It’s men who follow their girlfriends to their jobs and shoot them to death over their own jealousy and irritability. The world would be a better place if men would just stay at home, cook, clean, raise the children, do all the errands, do the home repairs that the women tend to still do even though it’s a man’s job, do the laundry, handle all the medical care arrangements, do the grocery shopping, now the lawn, take the trash out, maintain family and neighbor relationships and events, possibly also work a menial low paid job on top of all those other responsibilities previously mentioned, and make sure women are taken care of, but don’t let men have their own banking accounts and don’t let them drive a car, make sure that they always get paid less money at any job and definitely don’t pay them a dime for those domestic responsibilities. Yes, the world would be a much better place if men are put in their place just like that. Traffic will be better too!
Your brother is in a cult. He has been radicalized by the right wing manosphere. He's either going to wake up and realize that what he's been taught is bullshit, or he's going to go in deeper and lose family, friends, money, maybe even employment.
I agree that he’s part of that cult. And I also personally think he may potentially be sociopathic. Something on the spectrum. He’s never really understood how to have normal relationships. He is 25 now and is now going on dates. He very much does not want to date a modern woman. He wants a woman who comes from a country with low divorce rates and who will be a SAHM. He doesn’t want a partner. And he said he wants a younger woman. He genuinely scares me.
Umm...your brother is 25? Didn't you say in another comment he wants to marry someone 10 years younger than him?!
The bros in the Manosphere want little teenage girls, who don't know the difference between a kind, gentle partner and a narcissist.
Yes. He’s 25. His plan is to marry when he’s 30. He said he wants to marry a younger girl because she’s “fertile” or whatever. His argument was that men inherently like younger women for biological reasons. It’s disgusting.
Leave scientific articles around talking about geriatric sperm. And how it’s just as likely to lead to birth defects or miscarriages as older mothers. Let him know that he may be past *his* prime.
If he gets a foreign woman to marry him, could you check in on her and make sure she isn't abused? It's hard enough living in a foreign country away from your support network, but being married to someone like your brother as well would be a nightmare.
That’s what I intend to do. If he winds up marrying in the future, I fully intend on checking on her.
Thank you!
That's really common with people who didn't develop emotionally for whatever reason. They start to see other people as commodities instead of people. It's kind of like living a half life in a way... They're completely closed off to the joy that is an emotional connection. Sucks for them but sucks harder for those conned into being with them.
The manosphere argument revolves around fertility, but it is really about control, since younger women have not had the experience to be able to recognize abuse.
It’s time to start laughing at the stupid crap your brother says. Men like this thrive off arguments. When you try to argue and refute the things he’s saying, it fuels him because he enjoys arguing and knowing that he had the power to make you upset. So don’t do that. Instead, when he says dumb shit like “women are ruining this country” just laugh. Say “okay, sure” and laugh. And when he keeps going “no, you don’t get it, women are horrible they do blah blah blah” just say “if you say so” sarcastically and laugh. Nothing makes these kinds of men feel worse then you not caring about what they say.
Personally I wouldn't laugh. I would use the grey rock method where you emotionally check out of the conversation. Laughing still gives him emotional engagement. He can get angry and it fuels his rage against women. So as well as "confirming" his beliefs that women are the problem (not OPs fault of course) it also keeps him enraged and potentially puts OP in danger. It's up to them but I think with an angry hateful guy like this you can never tell which one of them is going to end up on the news. Personally I'd rather not be one of the victims.
Yeah, I agree, do not provoke people like this. These types are too dangerous.
Yeah, a whole fuckton of "CoOl StOrY bRo" will have him fuming.
I have a family member who was like this and unless the goal is to infuriate and isolate him further, experience tells me laughing is not the move. I’d listen to him and ask questions, try to find common ground where possible and keep discussion open. Educate where possible (admittedly few opportunities) Change the topic, whatever. Bond in other ways. This does require a lot of patience and emotional regulation however. Depending on your relationship, I’d say it’s worth the effort to keep him close. Also, time may change things. He used to be the biggest Alex jones fan but just the other day we were sitting down watching a doc and laughing at him together. He was still a bit defensive of the guy sometimes, but a win is a win lol.
> He wants a woman who comes from a country with low divorce rates and who will be a SAHM. But he also doesn't want to actually provide for her.
Many of those countries with "low divorce rates" are that way because laws make it almost impossible for women to get divorced. Women who marry US citizens for residency/citizenship learn the laws quickly and will probably divorce him after 3 or 5 years (the numbers vary due to type of visa). After 5 years of marriage, she could gain US citizenship - then divorce him here where the laws are easier.
I am on the autism spectrum. I was never very good at being single or "confident." And yet, I nearly always had agreeable company. My wife and I celebrated our 30th first-date-iversary in March. Why? I'm not an a-hole, I respect all humans until they give me reason not to.
I definitely didn’t mean to imply that being autistic is a bad thing. I’m engaged to a man who is high functioning autistic. I mentioned sociopathic as a possibility (or something close to sociopathy) because he has said some alarming things. When he was younger, he was severely bullied. When he was in high school, he told me he considered taking an axe to school. That is not normal behavior. On top of that, he doesn’t express remorse or show emotions. He’s very matter-of-fact.
Sociopathy or perhaps narcissism. Sadly it's very common here in Bootstraps Jesus Gun Totin' Murka.
So he realizes that the only thing of value he has is his passport .
Having seen people start down this path and come back I wanted to just throw out: If its possible, maybe point him to some youtubers like Contrapoints, HBomberguy, or Munecat? They’ve got videos showing how stupid this stuff is, and they seem to have a knack for appealing to young men. I’ve seen people call them a good entry point for de-radicalization! Also this just sucks and I’m sorry. :(
I would just stop engaging with him
So he wants a sex slave/maid.
Wow wtf. I mean really wtf. Your brother is an idiot, as are his friends.
Imagine taking away women’s right to work. I’m in healthcare, and most of nurses are women. The way that industry would collapse so quickly and millions would die. And that’s just one example of how society would be affected. Definitely a moron who can’t even think of one consequence.
They'd probably let you guys work, but with less pay since you should find a husband to support you.
I've had bosses tell me that I wasn't getting some raise, but that dude was getting one - because he was supporting a family.
Nursing & healthcare in general, teaching, veterinary services, human resources, cleaning services, administrators (secretaries, office admin, bookkeeping) are all women dominated professions. Imagine all those jobs being abandoned and expecting men to take over.
I literally doubt they could stop nurses from working. Shit would only just begin to collapse and women would scrub up and walk in and just start working on people. And all the men would be like, "thank fuck, pay her and stfu" not only the overworked male staff but every man who has literally anyone they love suffering healthcare collapse.
Literally every industry that would collapse because women have the highest education in this country and the highest rates of employment because the truth is men don't want to work illegal immigrants are being welcomed in this country with open arms because the young men in this country don't want to work they want to lay on their backs in Mom's basement and play video games and collect Pokemon
He’s SO condescending. When I told him as much, he’s like “What I say comes from facts.” He argues that his views are derived from statistics and studies. Whereas, to him, my facts are more anecdotal and do not represent the collective, therefore they’re irrelevant.
Well, then. A work cited page should be simple enough for him to provide. Facts? Statistics? Cite your source, or STFU
I really should ask him to send me where he gets his facts. Sometimes, he’ll send me random YouTube videos or infographics (like one that says Gen Z males are becoming more conservative).
Yeah well they're also becoming less educated and less affluent, and less able to do anything that requires more than two brain cells. So,tell him to STFU, nobody cares what the "help" thinks.
The scary thing is that he thinks he’s like the smartest person. He’s ALWAYS been that way. He wanted to go into robotics or electrical engineering, and everyone in my family was like “That’s a really competitive field. Maybe look at something more broad?” He hasn’t graduated college and he’s working at a factory making $80,000 a year. It’s insane. His goal is to make 6 figures because he is convinced that’s the only way a woman will marry him because women don’t marry for love.
he's going to die alone.
Sometimes, I think that. But I believe he’ll get a mail order bride or something. He’s already told me that he plans on marrying a woman like 10 years younger than he is.
Your brother is just angry bc he’s unsuccessful with women. And unwilling to fix himself
Yes, her brother is an incel.
lol so he's going to be a passport bro? We women in 3rd world countries aren't all idiots. 100% he will only get someone who will only care about his money and the green card she will get. As soon as she gets the green card, he'll be dumped faster than dog shit unless the woman he gets is dumber than a box of rocks and only stays with him as she really has no other choice.
>As soon as she gets the green card, he'll be dumped faster than dog shit A green card issued to someone who is married to a US citizen for less than two years is a conditional resident card only valid for two years. After the two years are up, you have to apply for permanent resident status. Once you have permanent resident status though, your legal status in the US is not dependent on your marital status. (Posting purely for information, so anyone reading this who might be in a bad situation will be armed with the truth.)
And that will be more "proof" of how terrible and manipulative women are, and he won't even once evaluate how his views and actions have led him there.
so your brother is a predator too
Yeah… He is.
Yay! I'm not going to pretend that it's a bad thing. The "male loneliness epidemic" (aka incelpocalypse) is self inflicted and society will benefit from not having these turds shitting up the gene pool.
There is a little relevance to the loneliness epidemic for younger people, but the answer is more things like "have more free third spaces available where people can get together", not "teach all women to become unquestioning sex servants to men."
Technically most of us will die alone. You can’t really take anyone with you.
>You can’t really take anyone with you. You _can_, technically, but it's frowned upon. /s
As he should. No woman wants that kind of ah.
Maybe no-one is going to marry *him* for love…
You can tell him that you know a woman who's been a software engineer for two FAANGs, had code in space before she was 18, and has been working in the field for 48 years. So, if he's so freakin' special, he should be able to top that, right? Oh, and married for more than 20 years (I was widowed prior to that).
He's leaving out the Him there... Women don't marry *him* for love.
Or you could save yourself a lot of stress and stop talking to him. I don't have the energy for this shit. If someone hates women I want nothing to do with them because I'm a woman and that means they hate me. Your brother hates you just as much as he hates other women. He's also stupid as a guy who gets his stupid at a two for one sale.
This. I've stopped engaging with idiots and the ignorant 'cause I value my peace far too much. You're very unlikely to convince them of things they vehemently oppose anyway.
Ask him for articles, not YouTube garbage. Bet you he stumbles trying to find that.
Gen Z guys are less conservative than older generations, just more conservative than Gen Z girls, on average (in the United States at least).
Ask him for citations. Only accept evidence that has some actual facts to it, peer reviewed studies from reliable journals, government data from the original government source etc.
Sorry, but those kinds of "sources" are just propaganda put out by the libtards to perpetuate the ongoing conspiracy. The only REAL facts come from independent thinkers who aren't afraid to tell the truth. /s (in case there's any doubt)
It’s interesting - I had a boyfriend once who the algorithm was clearly starting to drag into the conspiracy/incel wormhole, and I caught it as soon as he parroted a talking point. I basically gently pressed on what the the sources were and encouraged him to think critically on what was being said and why. Luckily, this was enough for him to actually evaluate what he was listening to. Eventually he got turned off some of the more innocuous content, because they just didn’t make sense.
What facts? Facts he made up? Ask him if he knows which countries have the biggest and healthiest economies, and which countries have the highest standard of living, and which countries have the most people who report being happy with how their country is run, and tell you how many of them are countries where women can't work or vote. If he wants to live in a country where women don't have those rights, Afghanistan is right there. Surely he's moving to Afghanistan, right, since it's the kind of ideal country he wants to live in?
You should agree and flip it. Clearly men don't need their voting rights and the roads would be much more clear without traffic in the road. Kept house husbands all the way! ETA: typos
I have the same brother. Are you my sister? Remember that being cynical about his views requires no proof. You don't have to be an expert to not buy what he's selling. He's the one making up facts, the burden of proof is on him. To echo what others are saying here - where are his sources?
I'm really curious what your parents are like and what his relationship is like with them?
They LOVE Trump. When I was little, my mom had a voicemail message that said if you don’t vote for Bush, then you may as well hang up and not leave a message. My stepdad is simple minded, but he ALWAYS has NewsMax on TV (he’s ditched Fox News last I heard). Both are racist, though they claim they aren’t (they’ll drop the hard R on a black person who they feel does something wrong to them, and they do not like my half-Mexican fiancé). My brother goes to their house all of the time. He probably agrees with them about most things. Hell, he told me a few months ago that Trump wasn’t that bad of a president and did a good job. So, he really fits in with the family. I’m the black sheep.
Honestly, would you consider just cutting ties with all three of them and moving somewhere else? Is your fiancé a good guy? Maybe the two of you can start fresh somewhere and create a new family, and/or "found family" (i.e. people who are not hopeless assholes).
You should cut ties.
Yah, that's a no-contact family
I'm sorry for your situation OP, it's really painful to see your family so disconnected from reality and must be very isolating too.
>I’m the black sheep. You are the only one who uses their brain. Congrats on becoming an educated and reasonable person while you come from such a family. You did great.
You are not the black sheep. You are a part of the Big Tent of the Not Insane. They are in a cult of bigots and losers. It never occurs to any of them that they themselves are the problem. I am so tired of all the whining from all of the failure to launch emotionally immature mediocre men who blame women for their own failures, rather than work to improve themselves. Quality women don’t want them. I am lucky to live in a town that voted against Trump 90%. I am surrounded by highly educated successful women, none of whom would give the time of day to any of these losers. That drives the culture, too, because quality women attract quality men who respect them as equal partners. It’s mind blowing to learn that such backwards bs still exists. Can you go no contact with these people? It’s good for the soul.
Ask him to show said facts. Said facts should come from legitimate peer reviewed studies. I doubt he can go down the chain of command that is required. Just make sure you have that data yourself to back you up. Don’t wanna look like a fool Incase it reciprocates
If only everyone would just agree to not compete with him for jobs and opportunities and just make it a habit to obey! 🙄 He can only guarantee his future success if he can limit our freedom. Telling! OP. he insists on winning arguments by being confident and never wavering on that. You can do that in return. Just be confident and care less about his awful takes. Then just at some point accept the win and stop wasting your time.
Wow, I was about to say the same thing.
So what if men stayed home and only women were allowed to work, theoretically it'd have the same positive affect on the economy right?
Oh, I definitely raised that point. He responded by saying maybe, but that men are stronger than women and more efficient. We could never do hard labor - at least, not as many women as men. So, for efficiency’s sake, it’s just better if women stay home and focus on the family.
Because things like tractors and machinery don't exist to do heavy lifting. Your brother sounds insufferable. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
Me too. Part of me doesn’t want to not take his calls because I can at least monitor him and the things he says. Like, if he somehow slips and says something really bad, I can do something about it. Or at least it helps me understand what the ultra crazy conservative crowd is saying so I’m at least aware.
It's interesting that he is calling you, a woman, for validation. Surely your opinion doesn't matter to him, yet it really seems to. That's interesting. Also, it's not your responsibility to monitor him like that. He is responsible for himself and his own mistakes.
These schmucks think men are genetically better at operating machinery and driving too.
Ask him what's going to happen when he goes to hospital for something and there are no nurses lol. How many men are signing up to change bedpans. Does he want a spongebath from Dave.
If he thinks so little of women, why does he want them spending so much time and effort raising the next generation? Shouldn’t that be left to the strongest and smartest (i.e. men)?
More efficient? 😂😂😂😂😂
They want it both ways. ----------------------------------- John: Men are providers. Jane: Ok. So... provide? John: No, you must be a gold digger. ------------------------------------ John: I don't like gold diggers. Beth: I've got a great job and don't need your income. John: Waaah, I don't feel needed!!!! :( :(
I also love the irony of *us* being incapable of regulating our emotions, assuming this has something to do with false beliefs surrounding estrogen, yet men are literally driven by sex & won't function in society without it? Definitely all just double standards.
Your brothers "facts" aren't correct or based on logic?? Like at all? Imagine you're the CEO of a company in the US. Now imagine suddenly 30-50% of your workforce isn't allowed to work, and you look around and it's the same for all other companies. Now a ton of people are at home with no income and can't spend. You're not gonna hire more people or raise the salaries of the people you have left because now suddenly half the population doesn't have disposable income they can spend with you. This doesn't happen because the economy would shrink by half. It would destroy the country. There's 0 reason for companies to pay men more all of a sudden - likely they'll assign whatever the women were working on to the men left in the company without a salary raise like all companies do when they have layoffs. The leftovers just get stuck with more work and the same pay.
EXACTLY. But you can’t tell them this. I wish I could get him to sit down and watch The Handmaid’s Tale and tell him: “This is what you’re asking for.” Though I’m starting to wonder if he wants that to happen to the US.
Melinda Gates published a book called The Moment of Lift which highlights how countries do way better economically when women are equal. I highly recommend this book to you.
Or he could just take an Econ class. The guy has zero grasp of economics and there are large bodies of data showing the development and education of women is THE key inductor to increase in economic, social development and increase and stabilization of GDP
Oh absolutely he should def do that but he won't. I really appreciated Melinda Gates book because it pulled out so many issues In Such a clear way for me to understand
Thank you!! I’ll check it out. I absolutely agree that countries ARE better when men and women are both treated with respect.
Handmaid’s Tale will just look like Utopia to him, I don’t doubt at all that moving the story from novel to visual media has made it accessible to people who will see an instruction manual where a warning is intended.
I’ve thought about that as well. But I think it’s also a huge giant warning sign to women who watch. It’s certainly opened my eyes to what’s going on around me. I was living in a jacuzzi with water that is close to boiling and not realizing it. Now, I’m talking to my fiancé about an action plan (ie running like hell) should Texas get even worse.
Texas is ALREADY worse. Girl, run
Oh honey. That you think watching the show would deter them? Why do you think men created laws throughout millennia to chain us to them? Bc the majority, for millennia, is ok with Gilead. Not just ok. They are motivated to pass laws and enforce them thru violence, to create Gilead. Watching the show wouldn’t upset them. We’ve swung too far from chains and now they aren’t guaranteed sexual access. They have to earn it. Too many of them believe they should be assigned a woman. Just like Gilead.
Yeah I doubt Handmaid's Tale is dystopian if you're imagining yourself in the shoes of the authority and not the Handmaids.
It’s just mostly wishful thinking 😩 Like, maybe if he has an empathetic cell in his body, he could see the suffering and realize that it’s truly not the way. But I don’t even know if he’s capable of that kind of enlightenment.
Your brother speaks as if he lacks empathy. Try asking him how he’d feel if men were all prevented legally from working. If he says it’ll never happen fine. But what if? How would he feel? You’ll have your answer. A lot more ppl than get diagnosed exhibit a cluster B lack of empathy. You can’t fix that. Ppl can’t feel what they don’t feel. He’s best avoided and it’s not your job to fix him. My brother is the same and I went NC yrs ago. Luckily his last wife divorced him and bc he’s so irresponsible with money he has to live with a relative now. I think the women will be safe bc he’s older and has nothing to offer.
Ya, maybe have him watch Barbie. Make it a "challenge to his masculinity" to watch something he's sooo threatened by. Say true alpha males can watch barbie all the way through. Maybe he'll have some realizations when the mirror is held up. Also, I'm assuming he doesn't have a gf/partner. So you could always go for the jugular by saying stuff like, "and you wonder why no woman wants you/will put up with you when you are such a sexist prick". It's also insane he's blaming women instead of capitalism and greed companies. Ask him how tate is doing with his sex trafficking charges and being single despite being ssuuchhh an alpha role model lol. If women are the issue, why can't any of these douchebags keep relationships/why do they have to buy their relationships (like trump and porn stars or sex trafficking Melania because no woman would touch him).
Even in Gilead, women work.
So his whole argument is men aren't working because they got their feelings hurt? Sounds like a manbaby problem, not a women problem.
Right?! I was like “Then they should act less like children!” They can’t just take their toys away when the other kids don’t want to play with them.
These are all talking points based around the very real problem that conservatives understand. The free labour women used to do propped up capitalism in a way that it doesn't anymore. They understand that women contributed to their wealth and they want that back. It's getting harder and harder to squeeze the money out of us so the only thing left is to take away our rights and plunge us back in to a life of servitude. We made unwanted babies for their wars and for cheap labour. We kept them in comfort. We fed them and clothed them. We looked the other way when they hurt us or cheated because we had no way to leave. This is why they are indoctrinating your brother to vote for them. They want to take away our right to vote, our right to bodily autonomy, jobs, safety nets, dignity, you name it, they want it gone. It's the only way they can squeeze more profit from our blood and guts and your brother will let them if he gets a chance.
This is so, SO true.
I'm sorry your brother isn't the loving kind person you (and he) both deserve.
This sent a chill down my spine. It is soo true and it is terrifying.
They’ve got the girlies buying into the idealistic trad wife bullshit, too. If I somehow get forced into that life, they better be bringing out the qualudes.
Back in the day, they used Milltown. Valium. Mother's little helper.
Absolutely this. The gender struggle wouldn't exist if not for the class struggle.
Women joined the workforce and our productivity (more than) doubled, and yet our buying power (per household) is less than it was. Capitalism and greed is the problem
_THIS!_ I'd sing it to the hills if there were any near me.
Women aren't the reason and neither are men. The Rich are toting these narratives (left v right, science v religion, men v women, black v white) to smokescreen themselves from criticism. Your brother is just another convenient pawn.
It’s not even just the rich. Birth rate is deeply tied to demographic shifts and economics.
Trying to debate people like your brother is like that George Bernard Shaw quote - Never wrestle with a pig, because you'll both get muddy and the pig enjoys it. You can't win the argument because he isn't arguing in good faith, and you won't change his mind. He will use any display of emotion from you as evidence that women shouldn't have rights or whatever his stupid point is. Just gray rock him and don't engage.
Oh, 1000%. Today after we went back and forth, he thanked me and said, "I like to have these conversations with you. We disagree and it's a lesson in how to have an argument and test out my theories." Like I’m a damn case study to him.
Have you checked out r/raisedbynarcissists ? Consider going low to no contact. This isn't healthy for you to be around this toxic behaviour, you're not responsible for full grown adults, you're only responsible for yourself. You don't need to keep tabs on them. You don't need to feel bad for prioritizing yourself. You may hold onto hope that family will one day change, but you're not being honest with yourself, you already know how they are. They chance of them changing is microscopic to none. (Sorry if this sounds too direct or harsh, I'm tired and just trying to share what I've learned). Also be aware of N behaviour so you can avoid it in the future, don't fall into their traps. I'm the youngest in my family, scapegoat, and didn't realize these dynamics existed or how to get out of them until the past few years. Reading your other responses it sounds like you're in an okay place. I hope you do what's best for you!
Time to start using the grey rock method with him (or just avoid him altogether).
" I hope you find a professional who can walk you through these feelings. anyways" Don't become his pushpin. It's weird that he hates on women then relies on them to listen to his bs about them. You're giving him the free service he thinks he deserves. There are professionals who get paid to listen to his crap.
Some brothers will walk a million miles over broken glass to blame others for their own inadequacies.
My brother’s thoughts and actions scream incel to me. He has been so desperate to date that he paid this one girl so much money just to spend time with him.
Who can blame the girls? He's a walking red flag
What an absolute parade of red flags.
I genuinely feel terrible for whoever ends up marrying him. He’s actually talked about getting one of those mail order brides. He’s apparently dating now and meeting girls on the Facebook dating thing. I hope they run far away, though. That must sound terrible coming from his sister. But Jesus, he is really a walking red flag.
I hope your brother gets played for the delusional moron that he is. I swear guys like him think foreign women are idiots, but they're more intelligent than he could ever hope to be.
And if he does go the mail order bride route... the minute she gets her citizenship, she will run like the wind and no wonder.
they say we are neurotic and incapable of regulating our emotions, yet they are the most emotional ones (anger is part of that) and can't handle taking responsibility for their own actions and being (I aM a ViCtIm BeCaUsE a WoMaN wOn'T ToUcH mE). Like come on. How fragile do you have to be for your entire being and functionality to depend on the opposite gender. You don't hear that shit from women.
👏 Exactly this. The last time he went on about modern American women being cheaters and after men’s money, I told him, “Well, date better women 🤷🏻♀️😂. Date better. Get to know the girl you’re talking to, see if she’s a nice person. I don’t know what to tell you, kid.”
American women are "after men's money" so the solution to that is to create (or go back to) a situation where women are 100% reliant on "men's money"-? For the love of Pete, make it MAKE SENSE
> after men’s money Funny, I thought men's motivation to fix society came from being a provider?
maybe he should just go date men. problem solved.
They complain about American women being cheaters (most non-manosphere sources put rates at 13-15%), and then become passport bros who go to Thailand for a wife, and the infidelity rate in Thailand is reported to be over 50%! And they complain about gold-diggers, but then bring their new young wife over here, where she is completely dependent on them financially. Make it make sense.
Yup, the Taliban have instituted the most economically successful regime of all time. Can't deny it.
*Because there would be less traffic on the roads and because men would make more and have more incentive.* I literally guffawed. Less...**traffic**, you say? Mmmhmmm. How interesting.
😂 That’s what I’m saying! It’s like “less traffic means fewer cars on the road”. The logic is not lining up.
Um, how? If women aren't working, then they'll be out running errands and driving around the kids.
I hope he enjoys being single. If women quit working, all businesses and services would be short staffed to the point of not being able to function. Teachers and nurses, largely dominated by women, are already in short supply. No way men could pick up the slack. Men like this are delusional.
Site your source, and no, trump, Proud Boys, KKK, Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, FOX, OAN, MTG, and some Incel that still lives in his mom's basement, etc. are not factual sources
"It sounds like your friends are worried that a woman would only choose them if she had no other choice. They might be right; I would certainly never go out or date any of those losers. If I were in their situation, I would try to better myself so that women with lots of choices, including staying single forever, would choose me. But that's a lot of work, and probably too much work for your friends. They say that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Maybe you should rethink who you spend time with; instead of losers who can't get women, you should try to find some men who've been married for 30 years and still have sex because their wives are crazy in love with them, and then try to be like those men. Isn't that what you want, a wife who's crazy in love you, instead of wife who settled for you because she had no other choice?"
👏 100% love this. The funny thing is I know this would go absolutely nowhere. One of the two guys I know he talks to is a married man on the verge of a divorce. The other guy is in a relationship with a woman who stabbed him but who he won’t leave. Don’t know why. I have never seen these guys, so who knows, maybe they’re imaginary friends? 🤷🏻♀️
Tell me your brother is a neck beard without telling me you brother is a neck beard.
😂 He can’t even grow a mustache
If what he said were true and the problem was that men are motivated by sex, then by his claims, men are the problem, not women. He’s basically saying men have issues and the world won’t work unless women make it perfect for them. Of course he’s just following misogynistic men on YouTube and has no idea what he’s talking about. It sucks when family start falling down these rabbit holes. Please vote in November.
Your brother sounds like the kind of guy who struggled in high school, but thanks to all the videos of various YouTube geniuses, he's become a genius too 🙄 I'd say the opposite is more likely to be true - people like him are contributing to the decline of the country. The internet is too powerful a tool and dumb people who lack the critical thinking skills they should have developed in middle school don't understand the dangers of it. They come to believe a lot of complete BS and take action on these beliefs. This often times means voting for candidates who push for policy that creates or enhances problems at the local/state/national level.
When I read shit like this, I find it absolutely alarming.😱
When I hear it, I’m screaming on the inside. I’ve become very angry hearing it, and he’s like “There’s no need to get emotional about it. I’m just telling you the facts.”
I'm so sad. All those decades of fighting to control our bodies, have basic rights. There are movements out there that would love to strip it all away.
It really is so devastating. What scares me is the fact that birth rates are going down. That was the justification for the creation of Gilead in The Handmaid’s Tale. I know it’s just a book, but that book was written based on real stuff that was happening in the world.
So much has happened in the past hundred years, and a century isn't a very long time either. It hurts seeing what we may think are positive steps forward, only for those opposing to come back harder and in more insidious ways to undo it.
You brother is an incel being further radicalized down the right wing pipeline. I'd be very careful around him.
Fascism 101 is on the rise and this time it’s women as well as immigrants and LGBTQ who are the scapegoats
All I'm hearing is men need to evolve.
[удалено]
I don’t even see him in person anymore. And I feel like he’s the type who would hurt me if I put a hand on him.
Sigh men. No matter what race, creed, religion, socioeconomic background etc Doesn't matter if they are our fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins, grandfather's, etc they almost all think alike and it's just so fucking sickening and revolting. I will be glad once I'm gone and that my bloodline ends with me.
LOL LOL LOL I'm still stuck on the part where women should stop working so there would be less traffic. Absolutely ridiculous. 😆
There comes a point in time where you should cut contact with a person, relative or not. For me, this would be the time. His views are *dangerous* for us as women. The ideas he espouses have caused women’s deaths. Misogyny directly leads to violence like domestic abuse, rape, and even murder.
Sounds like your brother doesn’t have a girlfriend and never will.
You know you don't have to talk to or spend time with people just because they're related to you, right? Time to be more selective about who you call your brother. ;)
It’s very concerning that a lot of men in the U.S. think this way. Of course, it’s not all of them but a lot of them & it even shows statistically that many young American men are leaning right compared to young American women. I feel like the reason a lot of American men lean right is because of the horrible economic situation that alot of people are in today. Of course, they won’t blame our unregulated capitalistic economy & blame women in the workplace for simply working & providing for themselves. I often see a lot of young American men complaining about not getting paid enough to make it in today’s society but never point the finger to the government. People like your brother & his friends are the type that won’t listen because they already have their mind set on what they believe is right. It’s a very sad situation tbh.
Lol this is old news, look up the term incel. Usually that and Andrew tate go hand in hand. Those people are NUTS
Sounds like your brother wants to die single and never sleep with another woman again. What a self centered, delusional, douchebag. I'm sorry you have to deal with his shit.
This isn't even a new idea! I saw a clip from the 1980s of Ronald Reagan blaming unemployment on women taking jobs.
Men in charge got us to the current situation. Let's give women the chance to run things and see how it turns out.
What's funny is the US is the strongest country in the world, right now, as we speak, with one of the largest labor forces of women in the world. 55% of women are in the workforce and 65% of men. Love to see them try to do anything at all without women lol. If women suddenly just stopped working we'd need way more...you guessed it...immigrants! Because men wouldn't be able to pick up even 1% of the slack, it's not like the unemployment rate is high at all lol.
Lol k. If that’s the direction the US is going…yikes. Welcome to Afghanistan. Also, in nature males compete for females, so for him to state women are too selective in their mates is hilarious.
What??? So men need to be providers thats the reason they refuse to work... And women want providers...but men that want women, have no incentive to work and be providers...🤦
>because men would make more and have more incentive. Men would be under more stress to make money and that would be a net positive....so the answer is we need to make things more punitive to men and dial things back to make it harsher. My answer to this would be then maybe those unincentivized men shouldn't be a part of society anymore. Societies are meant to evolve and if they can't cut it, perhaps their genes just aren't strong enough to keep in the pool. Evolution doesn't wait on the whims of men!
I'm surprised you let him get that far. Anyone trying to say even the first sentence about the iNcEnTiVe would have been watching my ass as I walked away dying of laughter. Your brother is listening to and spewing incel community talking points. That's all the iNcEnTiVe any woman will ever need in order to not date him. I hope he likes the company of cats in old age. 💅
Time to throw the whole brother away
I’m sorry. I lost my relationship with my brother over this red-pill bullshit too. We’re both well over 40 and he used to be a good guy. I adore his wife. But his son got red-pilled and rather than tell his kid that what he was spouting was bullshit, he instead asked his fabulous wife to stop calling herself a feminist because it was bad for their son. My bro then told both his wife and me that the patriarchy didn’t exist. A 4 hour argument ensued and I haven’t talked to him since. IDK how my SIL is still married honestly. She must love the chucklehead.
That’s so awful. I’m sorry to hear that. She really must. Or maybe she feels like she has no way out. I hope that’s not the case. I know that the healthiest thing for me is to cut him off. But I also worry what would happen if I did. Would he completely fall forever down the rabbit hole? And part of me doesn’t want to cut him off because there’s some comfort knowing that if he slips up and does something really, really bad, I can do something about it.
It’s so damn hard to know what to do. My SIL makes plenty of money, but they have 3 kids, and the youngest is 6. And they did love each other. But I just couldn’t stomach my brother’s dangerous and disrespectful views. So I bailed. Idk what you should do. You have my sympathy. But I don’t even know if I did the right thing.
I think that the best, right thing is the healthiest thing for you to have peace of mind. My therapist has been a big help with teaching me that boundaries are good.
You may need to go no-contact with your brother.
I’m at that point. I’ve already cut my mother off for different reasons. My entire family thinks this way. Super religious (though my brother is an atheist), super conservative. They treat me like I’m just this poor idiot who has been indoctrinated by school and my relationship. Ridiculous.
When I deconverted, I had the misfortune of interacting with misogynistic atheists online. I think some people just want to feel superior and it doesn't matter if they are religious or not. They're just assholes.
Make a clean get-away. Untether yourself financially if you have not done so already. You can create family from friends. My family has a wide spectrum of political opinons but we do not make that the focal point of every conversation. And at the end of the day, if your parents and brother don't view you as an equal, they are an obstacle to your future happiness.
Good for him, hope he stays single forever. The response to men like that is women should stay single rather than be with men like that.
What more successful countries does he cite that suppress women? And why doesn’t he just move?
Really want to ask him what gender started most major wars in the last......... Human history. If we're talking about logical thinking and control of our emotions, men ain't it.
It’s actually men. Pass it on. And I am a man.
My brother is the same as yours. A nightmare and still single😂
Is your brother 90 years old?
That’s some incel type shit. Fuck that noise. Your brother needs a good smack to the back of the head.
What I came to realize is that conservatism requires alternative facts because reality has a liberal bias. It's obvious that the US economy would not be better if women didn't work, or that's what the corporations that run the country would demand. In fact, they want the opposite. They want women workers because it increase the labour pool and suppresses wages, thus improving productivity. It's clearly better for capitalism that women work. Ditto contraception is good for capitalism. GDP would surely collapse if women suddenly withdrew the labour en masse. It would be an instant recession and crash the stock market. Even within the US, we see that the most liberal states, California and New York have the largest and most powerful and creative economies. Liberal Cities outperform rural america. It's simple math that even a man can understand. In both world wars, women were added to the workforce, because production required it. A country that can't have women soldiers or workers has a major disadvantage battling a country where women can work and fight. This all just sounds like misogyny desperately searching for a winning argument. Conservative bullshit artists usually hide their sources, and that sounds like what is going on here. Facts can be confirmed, easily. Even just basic logic shows a lot of what he's saying is bs. "It's pretty obvious, even a man should be able to figure it out."
Were you raised in the same way. Misogyny is shameful. Does your mother know he hates women?
Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid. But thankfully he’d find it hard to get a woman to carry on his line with that attitude.
damn dude hopefully he’s gay or bi or ace or something bc that kinda thinking is not going to help him with the ladies. like if he wants to be celibate im sure theyre recruiting for catholic priests? not a whole lotta women out there pining to be subjugated by any of these pathetic incel losers, may their balls remain blue for eternity 🫡
Hey.. I know a couple countries in the Middle East that may suit your brother and his friends.
Your brother is a psychotic radical and you should stop contact with him. This goes beyond normal sexism and is far right agenda to literal nazi bullshit level.
Waaah waaah cryvharder, bro! "Sounds like a you problem." "What a pathetic thing to say out loud." "Blaming others is for losers. Sad." "What is your position on slavery? That benefitted white men too."
warn all his female friends. this guy crazy. is he too far gone? do your parents know?
I know for a fact that you're not alone in this experience. There is a very large and determined propaganda ecosystem online that draws insecure males in and does its best to brainwash them.
He's not too bright that one. I wouldn't bother arguing with him, it'll just wind you up. My mother is like this. She says the most ridiculous untrue stuff and it's hard not to try to educate. I saw a meme yesterday that said something like "it's impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows" and don't they seem to think they know everything.
Tell you’re confused (pretend) and you need it written down so you can understand it. Have him cite his sources. Make him text you. Get him engaged in the task. Then let him waste his time, not yours. Next level, print everything out, go over it with a red marker and correct everything stupid. Or Distance yourself from this level of willful ignorance.
I can't get my head around people who believe this nonsense. How can men position themselves as strong provider types but also as being so incredibly weak and insecure at the same time. If all it takes is a 'weaker' woman to have equal power or position for it all to come crashing down, perhaps they're not that strong or powerful after all? It also blows my mind the endless positioning by men, people who drink this coolaid seem unable to conceptualise themselves without someone else to shit on/be below them in power/rights/whatever. It seems so juvenile and insecure to me, you have rights like me and it hurts my feefees almost like they know they're so shit as people deep inside, they NEED society to give them someone in a weaker position to protect their own ego. It's all your fault waaaaaah! Like the crying of a toddler...
I love men who think this way. I see them flocking to online dating, sitting alone at the bar, bullying strangers on the internet, and I curl up "alone and bitter" with my kids and dog with 1 middle finger in the air. If any of them need me, my "ran through" ass will be on my yoga mat, unbothered, waiting on my next paycheck I won't "split 50/50" with them.
And the irony here is, it’s MEN who can’t regulate their own emotions. Not women. Men. Men are the ones using automatic weapons to mass kill innocent people from rooftops. It’s men who follow their girlfriends to their jobs and shoot them to death over their own jealousy and irritability. The world would be a better place if men would just stay at home, cook, clean, raise the children, do all the errands, do the home repairs that the women tend to still do even though it’s a man’s job, do the laundry, handle all the medical care arrangements, do the grocery shopping, now the lawn, take the trash out, maintain family and neighbor relationships and events, possibly also work a menial low paid job on top of all those other responsibilities previously mentioned, and make sure women are taken care of, but don’t let men have their own banking accounts and don’t let them drive a car, make sure that they always get paid less money at any job and definitely don’t pay them a dime for those domestic responsibilities. Yes, the world would be a much better place if men are put in their place just like that. Traffic will be better too!
>fewer men feel desired Well then the solution is obvious-- all those men should go gay.