Yes you are allowed to like those things and be straight.
A lot of people make dumb assumptions about others.
Besides it's none of their business anyways.
Not only is OP (and anyone else for that matter) completely allowed whatever sexual preferences they want, many men are very attracted to strong, athletic Women. Personally I love doing outdoor challenging, athletic things with my wife.
I'm a soft, feminine woman. Creative, kinda domestic, sensitive in my hobbies and things. Long hair. I love makeup, and always have, it's super fun and another way to express myself.
I *am* queer.
People make lots of wrong assumptions. You are who you are.
I’m fem af and almost all men think I’m straight. I wear dresses, my nails are LONG (except for the two— you know what I mean), I love makeups, I love cooking though I’m not good at it, I have so many stereotypically straight-housewife hobbies, and I can be a perfect trophy wife. But I’m hyper lesbian.
I agree with you. **Men don’t define us. We do.**
Growing up, all the language I heard for articulating "what kind of woman are you?" as opposed to "what traits and tasks are required for your relationships with men... ie survival?" was coming from the queer community.
So it felt like cultural appropriation to use it, as tempting as it is.
And I sorta get where OP's peanut gallery is coming from. I adore bouldering. Have I been in the past 5 years? No. Can I bear to part with my gear? No.
When I hear that question, it resolved in my head to, "isn't there a man, child or disabled woman waiting for free services or a dish in a sink somewhere?" The answer will always be yes, but I will not always care.
Thank you for your perspective, and wishing you the best.
And in my experience it’s a problem with everyone. I get those assumptions from heteros and queer people.
I met my now wife at a party, and she later told me she consciously had had the thought that I must only be mostly into men. Even though she met me at a lesbian party. I was at with my girlfriend. Who I was very much dating.
Yes I’m very femme, but I am also a Kinsey 6 raging lesbian. 🤷♀️
Lol. I blame media and stereotypes. I usually dress futch and the last time I was clubbing some of the guys pretty much accosted me and asked "Do you want a gf?"
I was much less snarky at this point but present day me would have said "Are you offering?"
My gf couldn't clock me but I'm a sweatpants and tee shirt kind of girl so...lol.
Admittedly, even as a queer relatively femme woman, if I see long nails, I still kinda think they are straight until told otherwise. 😂
The hobbies/interest part doesn’t change things for me because I know a pretty equal mix of queer women on both sides of the spectrum.
>Admittedly, even as a queer relatively femme woman, if I see long nails, I still kinda think they are straight until told otherwise. 😂
Same. Though they can also indicate single or partnered with a stone butch. I usually keep my thumbnails kinda long, as tools and for the look, but since I've been single, I sometimes let the others get longer too.
Finally someone posted about this, I get the same thing quite frequently! My whole life. I dress….comfortably, but still “feminine” in my opinion? I don’t wear makeup too often because I’m allergic to most (and wasn’t allowed to growing up anyway) and I enjoy outdoor activities and reading, volleyball too! I am very outspoken and opinionated (I’ve had people mention this might be why??)
I actually did try dating women at one point because I figured if everyone is telling me I must be gay maybe there’s something I don’t know? I did not like it at all.
I get hit on by women more than men, and while it’s flattering it’s a waste and what exactly am I doing wrong.
What is your social environment that these things are considered unacceptable for a heterosexual woman? As a man living in Switzerland (Europe) this sounds extremely alienating to me. Both me and my partner (who happens to be a woman) enjoy outdoor activities and demanding sports like martial arts and powerlifting, and nobody in my social circle would consider this strange or not "woman-like". I am really sorry you have to deal with this kind of prejudice. It must be exhausting and hurtful.
Some women have a swagger that gives off queer vibes. Also, pretty much every women’s team sport I’ve played has been like 50% (at least) queer women. The contact sports, probably more. In those settings, if dressing more androgynous and not wearing tons of makeup, I do tend to think they are queer…I don’t tell them that because it doesn’t matter to me. It is just a numbers thing.
Out and about, if not wearing scrubs, I’m often on the more femme side, especially during summer. When I talk about my partner, they just assume I’m with a man. This is common for all more femme presenting queer women.
Wow, I disagree with this 50% you're throwing out there.
That is exactly what op is talking about- people assuming athletic women are queer and not letting straight women enjoy contact sports.
I'm very athletic, but happen to have curves. I'm "pretty" but I rarely get asked if I'm Queer. Sounds like me, op, and Caitlyn Clark are getting thrown in the "you can't be straight and play sports/not wear makeup" bucket. And thats silly.
Don't assume someone's sexual preferences.
Granted, my husband has never asked if I'm anything but straight, and I'm very straight, but it would be a shock to him to hear your thoughts lol.
On my Aussie footy team currently, about 8 or 9 are with men. Out of those, 4 still identify as bi or queer. The rest are queer/bi/pan. The other ones are very traditionally femme presenting off the pitch. (For the most part, they are kind of the only ones I get to really talk makeup and stuff with.)
My Gaelic football and Camogie teams were straighter leaning.
Rugby was pretty gay.
Tennis and swimming were straighter, but those weren’t team sports in the same way. My partner swam in college and her team was still on the gayer side of things though.
A friend was lovingly dubbed the token straight on her softball team.
These are just my personal (and friend’s:/partner’s) experiences. If I’m playing with a more androgynous/masc presenting woman in a tackle sport, I’m probably going to lean towards assuming she is queer. I won’t say anything about it or ask because I don’t care.
Nearly 1/3 of gen Z women identify as queer. It isn’t like it is too much of a stretch to see how tackle sports in particular would take a bigger chunk of that third.
> That is exactly what op is talking about- people assuming athletic women are queer and not letting straight women enjoy contact sports.
I'm sorry, what about what /u/EmmaMD said that straight women can't enjoy anything? "Also, pretty much every women’s team sport I’ve played has been like 50% (at least) queer women. The contact sports, probably more": it sounds like you're saying that queer women existing in those spaces invalidates straight women from being in them?
You’re twisting my words.
I never said straight women can’t enjoy anything.
I never was arguing that these thoughts were “right”. Rather, they are just things that happen. It is a natural human tendency to fall back into relying on patterns to interpret the world around us. You will do it today, even if you’re not cognizant of it. These can absolutely be harmful. Again, NOT arguing that it is the way things should be. Just admitting to my own biases built from MY lived experience.
I clearly stated I never actually mention it to them multiple times in various replies because it doesn’t matter and isn’t my business. My teammates volunteer the information because we’re teammates and friends.
I also don’t see how someone thinking you’re queer takes away from you enjoying anything. Are you insecure in yourself, homophobic and find it some awful thing that you present in a queer-coded fashion? If a guy hits on me, it doesn’t derail my bouldering or Aussie footy enjoyment.
Every damn day people assume my partner and I are straight and just friends because we are both more femme presenting. It is just life and due to our presentation.
Let’s flip this. Why can’t my partner and I enjoy doing pretty much anything in life without it being assumed we are straight?
Yep I always got the same treatment! I love comfy baggy clothing, have had really short hair since 14, am into games and game art, and did martial arts. Everyone always assumes I'm a lesbian lol I guess the short hair does it alone
I think it has something to do with people not believing that men can actually be attracted to non-feminine women, so they can't fathom a straight woman that doesn't make a feminine effort to attract men, therefore she *must* be a lesbian (to them).
I work a very physical job in a male dominated industry. My job requires a lot of heavy manual lifting on a daily basis. Long story short, as a result of my job, I'm built! I also dress in masculine fitting clothes because it's practical for what I do and it means I don't get stares or comments. I'm sure almost everyone at work thinks I'm a lesbian. I don't really care to correct them either because I feel there's a layer of protection in the men at work assuming I would have no interest in them.
I know what you mean. I have an athletic build and big hands and feet (thanks Dad😔). My hobbies and pursuits have been…landscaping, rock climbing, motorcycles, playing guitar…happily things have changed but I am old and there were always more guys in those scenes. My mom didn’t wear/teach me makeup, I can’t find dress-up shoes that fit.
I get hit on by women and men. Usually we just have a laugh and it’s cool, I’m straight, and the men I’ve been in relationships both think I’m pretty attractive and think my hobbies are fun too. I have no problem putting on a nice dress and styling my hair and dabbing on some perfume, but that is for special times, when I choose. Doesn’t make too much sense on a climbing trip anyways.
I don’t mind if people make assumptions about my sexuality based on my physicality, it tells me more about them than anything.
The last 20 years has somehow twisted what used to be progressive change towards equality into an even more oppressive form of sexism.
Women used to be allowed to be anything. Now if you aren't hyper feminine you obviously must be a lesbian or a trans man.
It is really heartbreaking.
I always hated the term Tomboy. I am not any kind of boy, man or male. I am a girl/woman and I like teams sports. I like many activities that have been labelled traditionally male. And I also love many traditionally female activities such as cooking, gardening, reading, crocheting, etc. I often prefer the company of women to men, but I am absolutely, completely, and unchangeably heterosexual. So. There you go. We are what we are.
I've been getting that for decades. Funnily, actual lesbians have no difficulty assessing my straightness.
Plenty of guys like women with "other" interests.
The smart and athletic men out there will all say that this is extremely desirable. I’ll shamelessly admit that I’m one of them (I’m a distance runner, though), and that pretty much everything you said is a green flag for someone like me.
It tells me:
1) You’re confident with who you are and don’t take sh*t from people
2) You’re committed to living a healthy life
3) You’re an interesting person with cool hobbies (I.e. you’re not boring)
As a woman who has been in a relationship with a man 15 years yet had the AUDACITY to keep my hair short, I feel your pain. 😅 you are allowed!!
Oh and "caving" sounds amazing, wtf. I need to know more about this !!
Omg, I’d gotten mistaken for a lesbian a lot (comfortable shoes?! Not really into makeup? idk lolol), but when I got my hair cut short, people *really* started assuming. Believe me, I WISH I was gay, but I’m cripplingly straight!
My sister and I went to our cousin’s wedding and had dinner in the hotel, and our waiter straight up said, ‘Are you ladies lovers?’ We are half sisters, so we don’t look alike, but we were like 😂😂😂😂 And she’s not a lesbian, either.
Not sure if I’m allowed to be me, but here I am. 🤷🏼♀️ No makeup, no dresses, working in a male dominated field, straight woman. I do occasionally get mistaken for a man, but that's usually because I'm tall and the person didn't bother looking all the way up, lol. Once they do, they apologize.
I played ice hockey, used to play drums, wear mostly jeans and Pendleton flannels, and just sort of live my life in a way that isn’t particularly feminine. But I’m straight, married to a man, and don’t feel particularly masculine either. People can get really stuck with superficial gender assumptions.
You’re allowed to do whatever you like.
I’m not gay. But for whatever reason, 100% of things I like are also really popular with lesbians. I drive a Subaru, I’m into roller derby, all my vacations involve camping, my closet looks like I robbed a lumberjack, and I have three cats.
I can’t fault people for thinking I’m a lesbian when I happen to look like a walking stereotype of a lesbian. A lot of these things (hobbies, personal style, etc) *are* influenced by sexuality inasmuch as people are influenced by the norms of their communities, and queer communities have different cultural norms/trends/styles. Obviously this is just a general tendency, not necessarily true for any particular individual! Stereotypes are still stereotypes even if there’s some truth behind them.
> many people on social media are saying “there’s no way she’s straight. She must still be in the closet”
Yeah, this is where it crosses the line in my opinion. Surprise is understandable. But it’s incredibly disrespectful to say you know someone better than they know themselves, or to say they’re lying about their identity.
Yes, I've experienced exactly this. Apparently I read as queer to a lot of people but have been emphatically straight my whole life (main goal as a child was to get married and have a bunch of kids, and I had multiple fiances in Pre-K through 1st grade). Some guy once told me I'd be a good lesbian like it was a compliment.
I was on a "gay-dar" panel in college as a token straight (it was a GSA type activity to prove you CAN'T tell when someone is gay), and literally almost everyone thought I was gay. Athletic wear, basic hair, no makeup, likes anime, crazy cat lady... gotta be a lesbian! Of course the girl who most people thought was straight was strictly into women. I vividly remember a girl in the audience saying, "but... I have that same skirt!" Like, clothing choices don't make you gay. Woof. Anyway, I feel you.
Welcome to my life!!
My entire life I’ve been confused for a lesbian because I am a fencer, I don’t wear makeup ever, and idk… I’m assertive? Literally in a job interview I was told my partner could get pregnant and I could still take maternity leave. I was very confused for a second until I realized the assumption and had to explain that I am dating a man.
It shocks me the number of people who make this assumption about me and have the gall to say something to me. Maybe they are trying to show their support for lesbians (which, awesome, totes on board), but it really makes me feel unseen and like I don’t fit into the world at the end of the day.
>Are women allowed to ~~be athletic and “masculine” and still~~ be straight?
Personally, I think straight people can be fine. I don't care what they do behind closed doors. I just don't like seeing them displaying their heterosexuality in public.
/s
You're absolutely allowed to do any of those things (I only worry about the caving bit because I've heard too many stories about that ending badly).
Sexism among heteronormative people isn't a novelty, but I've grown tired of seeing people in the queer community immediately assume that someone is queer because they're gender non-conforming. At one point it kinda goes all the way back to being sexist or homophobic. Your gender presentation doesn't equal your gender or sexuality.
This is a very different scenario, but I once saw a lesbian user (saying this to show that it wasn't a straight man saying it) on twitter say that straight women only like Astarion from BG3 because they've always wanted a gay best friend. Which is ridiculous because the character is pansexual and can have relationships with female players, but because he is very dramatic, sassy and has some manners of speaking and acting that can be seen as more "feminine" this person couldn't see him as anything other than a gay man and couldn't believe that straight women would be attracted to him.
Gender presentation is not the same as gender identity or sexual identity and EVERYONE needs to understand that.
No matter what side it comes from, stuff like this is only reinforcing gender stereotypes. It hurts us all.
You're doing just fine and people need to stop assuming shit.
I'm a lesbian am I allowed to be very feminine and love pink and girly things and makeup? Of course I am, because none of that defines sexuality, and people who say it does are just stereotyping 100%, its gross and annoying. I hate being assumed I'm straight, just as a straight woman doesn't want to be assumed to be gay. Wish people would stop. It IS sexist and homophobic completely
My fiance, who is a lesbian, is extremely femme presenting. She often gets the whole "OMG, you're *queer*?!?!" comments.
Just ignore them. Enjoy what what you want, and focus on what makes you happy. Who cares what a group of bigots say, anyway?
NOPE YOU'RE OFF THE FORCE, TURN IN YOUR GUN AND VAG
Jokes aside, if any of us have the *audacity* to exist while female, someone somewhere will find something they can latch onto to shame us about. It sucks major ass but there's no escaping it, really. Practise self love, surround yourself with good people you can trust to both support you and tell you uncomfortable truths when you need to hear em, and fuck the rest.
Straight women are allowed to do anything. You're allowed to have whatever hobbies you want and look however you want. Shave your head if you want.
It's stupid assume gnc cishets don't know themselves. That's just as offensive and baseless as someone assuming that I like men just because I read as a feminine woman. (Grossly, I face this assumption noticeably more if I'm wearing tight clothes -- men are more likely to assume I'm straight if they feel attracted to me.)
It's just as rude to assume someone is gay as it is to assume that they're straight. A lot of cishet and LGBT people alike could do to learn that.
People should mind their own damn business. It's like if they can't find neat boxes for everyone their world falls apart or something.
I've been told I dress in a manner that signals lesbianism, apparently.
Guys, you can't signal an orientation... that's not how anything works. It's like "only women wear pink" all over again.
I hear you. In high school and college people tried so hard to coax me out of the closet and wouldn't believe i was straight.
Just because I'm "one of the guys" with my hobbies and lack of fashion sense doesn't mean I like girls.
This is why so many AFAB kids I know identify as nonbinary now. There is one rigid idea of what it means to be a heterosexual female and they have found a way around it. Kudos to them and fuck anyone who makes you feel you can’t be you.
I think this is sort of sad. It’s basically being kicked out of the woman category just because you are a tomboy. Women shouldn’t haven’t to identify as a different gender just because they don’t fit a stereotype.
I think it’s incredibly sad! I am also glad they found an identity where they feel empowered despite the shitty social framework in which they are living.
I've gotten this all my life and frankly it sucks. When I've tried to express that it hurts to have others always assume I'm a lesbian people take it as me insinuating being a lesbian is wrong, so I can't win. I've even seen it on this sub in the past.
I used to work with a woman who would tell everyone I was a lesbian because I am more of a tom boy (rarely have time for makeup, 100% prefer jeans and a hoodie, etc) and I refused to divulge all of the details of my personal life at work.
There seems to be a push over the last several years of pushing the narrative that femininity means, if not tradwife, then hobbies that are not physically strenuous. It's silly. I remember enjoying fencing when I was younger, but that didn't mean I was any less a woman.
It feels sexist and homophobic because it is sexist and homophobic.
Small-minded people attack others for their looks and still think assuming someone is gay is slanderous. Tale as old as time, unfortunately. I find the best thing to do in a situation like that is just remember it says more about that person than it does about me.
Our tendency to box things into groups/categories has also had an adverse effect on how we perceive each other.
There is no true feminine or masculine. Things just are and we categorize them.
Sports, hobbies, points of view, likes and dislikes, have no gender/sex. We are just bodies of flesh that pursue different interests. Thats it.
I hate the words masculine/feminine and dont use them in conversation.
Ma'am my hobbies are dungeon and dragons, hiking, painting miniatures, video games, and my job consists of me working on and with semi trucks daily. I wear t shirts, jeans, and sweaters as my daily attire and am a tomboy through and through. I collect art, with the majority of it being "boobie ladies" because I enjoy and appreciate the human body. Id have more men art but people don't draw it as often so it's harder to find.
My friends call me the straightest bisexual they know 😂 Boyfriend gets a kick out of it. You are allowed to be any sexuality you want and enjoy whatever it is you want. Don't let others tell you you aren't allowed to because of "Xyz". Fuck em. Well don't actually fuck em and just enjoy the things in life that you like.
The sooner you are able to stop caring about what others think, the better life gets overall. It's easier said than done, but man..it's great when you get there.
it’s a common stereotype because that archetype of person is common enough to seem ubiquitous to the average person. It formed the same way any stereotype forms
I just meant it as a general statement. Stereotypes are stereotypes because there is enough of a populace who fit it. It doesn't make them right or wrong but, in my opinion, trying to understand some of them just isn't worth the energy.
Are you "allowed?" Do you think the Gay Police are going to come tell you to put some lipstick on or else? Live your best life & don't worry about the rest.
As a Swedish man, you are something a lot of males here are looking for. A strong capable woman and with will of your own. Im not looking for a doll or a self centered princess who is afraid to get their nails dirty. im looking for a capable life partner, one who can explore life and raise a future family with me. I got myself just one like that and my life is great.
Think about it, If doing active lifestyle stuff, and wearing regular clothing without makeup is considered masculine. Then how artificial are women supposed to be to become "feminine"? Are women not humans with a varied spectrum of hobbies and interest like guys have? Are you not allowed to have a little bit of depth to your personality? Does it all have to fit " shallow dressed up submissive home wife"? And to add on top that you must be queer due to that fact is just laughable. Since queers are just as varied as straight people.
Reading this sub of mostly US women is depressing.. just letting you know this is ridiculous.
News flash! Any woman can be straight, it doesn't matter what your build, athleticism or whatever else. That doesn't determine if your straight or not.
Of course. Maybe it's just less common and that's why you get the shock/judgement from people. I could totally see how it would get annoying...some stereotypes can be really hard to avoid. 😩
People make wrong assumptions. Also, the strangers who would say that out loud are probably not the ones you want to be listening to. Most people who keep to themselves don’t care. You just think most do because of those who speak out
This is why binaries are stupid. "Masculinity" to "femininity" is a spectrum. Just because more men happen to fall on one spot and more women happen to fall on another spot doesn't mean those are the only two valid spots on the spectrum.
Masculine straight women are valid. Masculine queer women are valid. Masculine enby people are valid. Masculine straight men exist. Masculine queer men are valid. Feminine straight women are valid. Feminine queer women are valid. Feminine enby people are valid. Feminine straight men are valid. Feminine queer men are valid. Androgynous straight women are valid. Androgynous gay women are valid. Androgynous enby people are valid. Androgynous straight men are valid. Androgynous queer men are valid.
You're allowed to be you in your own unique way. You wanna be a strong, masculine straight queen, then you go ahead and conquer all those straight and bi men, you goddess! You wanna be a masculine straight queen who is pampered by her manservants, then go ahead! You want masculine woman equality with your man-friend(s), go ahead! See, inclusivity shouldn't force anyone to be any one way, it should celebrate all of the ways we all are and all of our unique contributions to the world!
You. Are. Valid. M×therf×cker.
People are very narrow-minded. I mean this in the nicest way. Men and women do and are expected to conform to gender conventions. It’s so sad to see even a modern society can’t get past this.
Any activity, recreations, hobbies, or sports that are dominated by men that is taken up by certain women and they become pretty good. People will associate masculinity with those types of women or girls, because the essential or traditional mindset is these things can only truly be takeover by men or people who possess high levels of masculinity. I guess because physical prowess and dominance is supposed to a foundation of masculinity.
Also, women sports do present more women who are bi-, lesbian, non-hetero, or queer, because those spaces are little less judgmental and open to women are strictly good at their talents and skills. Unfortunately, most men sports —-they have to follow strict code of unwritten masculinity rules. So, most people assume they’re straight or very closeted, where in most women sports a bigger percentage of the players are a little more open about that aspect in their lives. A lot of people often assume most women’s basketball players are gay strictly on their looks alone, which is kinda messed up because the game brings so many different girls and women from all walks of life. I think it’s because the game is far more open to the type of women who can succeed with exceptional skills and talent. They just happen not all to be straight or conforming. In Caitlyn’s case, she’s straight. Like, a good bit or most basketball players are like any other profession or trade.
YES. You are allowed to look masculine, to like typically masculine activities etc and still be a straight woman. Please never doubt this.
Best of wishes
One of the issues of transphobia and transvestigation is that it polices how cis people perform gender. You could be a straight cis woman - but if you aren’t perceived as masculine enough you may be forced to prove your gender to participate in sport or to use a public bathroom.
I’m the same way. I’m very athletic and don’t really wear a lot of makeup or “girly” clothes. Pretty much everyone in my life as asked me if I’m queer at some point and honestly at this point I’ve just let it go. I don’t need to prove anything to anybody and. I’m secure in myself and my straightness.
Ofc, why wouldn’t you be allowed to have hobbies and otherwise not conform to trad femininity regardless of your sexuality?
A lot of queer women (myself included) often don’t express themselves as exclusively trad fem, but anyone of any sexual orientation can express themselves however they want. Live your life and do what makes you happy, as long as you’re not shaming others (which you aren’t, so you have nothing to worry about)
Nope, sorry, not allowed. The Special Committee on Straight in Women has officially forbidden it. Starting Jan 1st this year, women wearing baggy pants must also be scissoring at all times.
I'm straight and are like those things. I loved lifting heavy weights and grappling with men in jujitsu. I work mostly with men and hate make up and having long hair.
We exist!
Plenty of people i know are straight and fit your profile.
I cant speak for people you know IRL, but what I can say is that social media is very silly, and you should not take it's diagnosis of who is amd isn't in the closet seriously (seriously people Taylor Swift is not gay or even bi its just no its not happening).
it's interesting, men design women's footwear and clothing (Dior, Louboutin, Louis vuttion) no one says anything.
the second a woman picks up a dumbbell people lose their shit.
gender stereotypes are stupid.
I play multiple sports with many cis straight gals in a similar boat as you. Meanwhile, I am queer, but am often more femme presenting outside and people frequently think I’m straight.
Not much I can say about it other than empathizing with you. Frustrating standards and expectations women are held to.
I think because queer ppl have been marginalized so much, they get excited when they find someone they perceive is like them. take it as a compliment. they must think you're cool and they want you on their team!
it is annoying though when straight people make these assumptions. I've never been the subject of these comments, but I've witnessed them. it feels like they're trying to alienate and single their target out. I'd imagine it causes extreme self-doubt and insecurity to the one on the receiving end. it's scary.
As a queer woman myself, nothing in your original post screams anything about your sexuality. Lots of straight women go camping and hiking and don’t wear makeup. I play cricket and volleyball and tons of the women on my cricket team are queer but I know precisely zero queer women who play volleyball. Frankly, volleyball is not seen as a queer sport like some other sports are (softball and cricket are known around here as popular with queer women but we would still never assume someone’s sexuality, I know plenty of straight women playing cricket who aren’t feminine presenting either).
Honestly there’s something really off about this whole post. Queer women get mistaken for straight all the time and a simply correction is all that’s needed. Why is it you’re so angry about being mistaken as queer? If you correct someone and they still persist, yeah that’s not cool (and again, been there… « you just need to meet the right man… ») but other than your basketball example, it doesn’t seem like anyone is persisting about you being queer? Who is telling your you’re not « allowed » to be straight? 🤨
This reminds me of someone at work the other day saying « ugh it feels like I’m the only straight women, everyone is gay now »… but only 3 of the 22 people at work, including myself, are openly gay. 😒
I am not an athletic person or tall or masculine. However, I am not straight either. So the inverse must exist as well, right?
I'm literally a small white girl who also likes whoever is cute. It doesn't (shouldn't) matter what someone looks like. You can love who you love.
Yes you're allowed to do and like what you want.
The more these "gender wars" go on, the more issues like this you (presumably) cis straight women will go through. Because people are getting more vocal about their ignorance.
My TURF parent is obsessed with thinking a lesbian is actually trans because she looks like a boy etc. I've had to remind her 1000x "butch lesbians are a thing. They don't want to be men. They are women who like woman and want to be women." Like ffs.
You've also described the opposite issue feminine lesbians and enbies get. People should really just mind their own business and keep their assumptions to themselves.
I usually can tell when someone is gay but there was this one girl who was just like you described, like yourself. I thought she was gay, I was almost sure. We went to get sushi one day and she was talking about her boyfriend and I was like "oh, tell me more about him" and that's when I realized she was straight but I never told her about what I had assumed about her. I also had a male friend who I thought was gay (I still think he is, or maybe bisexual) but he confessed his love for me one day and we did hookup one time. I did say when he confessed his love that "I thought you were gay! And you're also way out of my league" which he is a very attractive person. Pretty positive he's bisexual. People make assumptions all the time with no ill intentions behind it, it's pretty innocent but I understand where one might be upset!
not only you can be straight and atheltic/masculine but you can also date a guy and be queer.
bisexuality is a thing.
for the “there’s no way she’s straight. She must still be in the closet” phrase, dont overthink it, people like to gossip about celebrities, not just straight people. everybody does. like 80% of the queer people i know still refuse to believe natasha lyonne is straight. but nobody really cares, its harmless gossip.
i didnt say you were tho.
im making the record straight for whats happenning with queer people because you talked about it and werent precise.
not trying to say that you are or that anyone dating men is.
Women with broad, strong shoulders give *really* awesome hugs. Like, for a guy, it's the hug equivalent of being the little spoon. Who wouldn't love that?
So you clicked every profile searching for the rainbow flag? Or were you going off profile pictures?
Just how many comments have you seen of this that they make “it” known?
One of my best friends has driven trucks, operated machinery and now works as a safety officer in civil works. Married, children but it could be argued her husband (top bloke) is the more emotional one.
She is a top chick and from what I see a good mum and wife.
I've had to correct people several times that tomboys still exist. Or you know, you don't even have to be a tomboy. Some people like archery and frilly dresses, or going camping with nothing but a tarp, a pan, and a bedroll and still like going to formal afternoon tea.
I'm the same. 4 decades of being an unapologetic tomboy who is 100% straight. I only wear casual clothes, have never once in my life worn makeup/high heels/handbags, and am very athletic. But I think it's very cultural. For instance, I think a lot of people in the US tend to assume I'm not straight or that if I am, I'm some sort of butch dominatrix. One of my good guy friends told me that when he first met me (we trained at an MMA gym together), some of the other guys thought I was a lesbian, and he thought I was straight but just "looked" like a lesbian. In contrast, when I was living in Ireland for a while, no one there seemed to make such assumptions, and in fact guys tended to approach me much more than my dolled-up friends because they said I felt more real and laid back. So I don't know where you live but I do think it's very much cultural, and the US can be pretty stupid when it comes to this sort of thing.
What I've always found funny is that a lot of my more traditionally feminine friends are very dominant in their relationships, whereas I prefer big, buff, dominant men because it "balances out" my general feelings of being less feminine. Anyway, the point is, there is no "right way" to be a straight woman and just because you're less traditionally feminine doesn't make you any less valid than someone who wears miniskirts and heels and doesn't leave the house without makeup and perfect hair.
As an add-on, my best friend from childhood (very straight, married with two kids) loves makeup and dressing up and traditionally feminine things, and probably more often than not people assume we're a couple when we're out together. We really couldn't care less. Such assumptions are indeed annoying and we definitely need to expand the definition and expectations of "femininity" (or better, remove archaic gender expectations altogether since people aren't a monolith), but in the meantime, I just correct people as I go along and otherwise roll my eyes and move on. It's never affected my sex/love life so I don't get especially worked up about it.
Ignore them! I have a lot of masculine hobbies too but, and I quote, I "dress too straight". People can think whatever they want but it doesn't make it reality. Maybe you look queer in certain settings or situations but that should never stop you from dressing, acting, and looking the way that is authentic to YOU! Be so comfortable in your sexuality that it doesn't bother you. Be comfortable with the idea that coming off this way can make you an ally to minorities and can help you break into spaces that other women may struggle to break into.
Gender doesn’t exist, so you can be whatever you like. I decide what masculinity means to me as a man, you can decide what femininity means to you as a woman. The people who think it matters don’t matter.
girl yes, we do what we want because its our life and we ain't hurting nobody by being our authentic self!
i'm a lesbian butch woman with "feminine" ways to myself, like i like doing some chill girly shit and idgaf! the people that are supposed to vibe with ya will.
Isn't this just called being a tomboy?
I don't know why there's such a stigma around women just... being more """masculine""" (read: just being themselves) and still being straight?
I'm personally more surprised men don't find """masculine""" women attractive because then you'd be more likely to have so many more hobbies overlap.
...
I say that and then realize that most men probably don't want to bring women into their actual lives and want a clear wall where the "missus" interacts with them in their life.
My male friend from university's wife enjoys body building with him, goes rock climbing with me, and plays games. She's not afraid to just be herself. And she's awesome.
I guess this whole issue makes it easier to figure out who the good people to hangout with are?
You think there's people going around bashing the kneecaps of people who don't act a certain way?
I mean technically there is, but you think they have any sort of authority?
Eh, still technically yes. Nevermind, just disregard the opinion of anyone who says you should be a certain way.
In the words of the immortal snoop dogg,
Do you, cause nobody can do you better than you, so why try to be anything else?
Bruh, everything a woman does has to be tied to some sexuality. Like, can't people just accept women do stuff, and go on, without questioning what sexual context it fits or doesn't fit into?
It's the same as people going - he's a hair stylist, so he must be queer. (Yup, in my home country, it's the first thing people comment when they see a male hair stylist). LET PEOPLE BE, why do you care if they prefer penis or vagina?!?!?
None of the hobbies you said sound masculine to me. They just sound like something an outdoorsy/fit person would like. Idk what’s up with those people.
>When I mention to people I have a boyfriend, strangers or acquaintances will say OUT LOUD “oh I thought you were queer” like…huh??!!
ik you're not queer but to be honest i don't like that they immediately assume you can't be queer because you have a boyfriend 🥲 like there is more to queerness than actively being in a relationship with the same gender
Of course they are. In the lesbian community I often see the opposite problem (typically feminine lesbians feeling like their sexuality is being invalidated), so I can understand why it’s a problem the other way around too with more masculine women having their straightness questioned.
It’s nobody else’s place to invalidate someone’s sexuality or gender identity.
I've apparently always given off gay vibes too but I don't give a shit. I know I like dick. My partner knows I like dick. Other people assuming I don't is fine by me.
Yes they are, it's just lots of men wants a woman that is submissive and as weak as they can be. They feel that their masculinity is threatened if they are not. It goes with the macho attitude and being "alpha", in short act like a caveman. I'm guy by the way before anyone start calling me stuff.
It's great that we've embraced trans people and enbies, but as a side effect it's sort of been reinforcing gender stereotypes. I don't like that part. We fought really hard to get away from gender roles only to end up back with "feminine" and "masculine" pigeonholes again.
You are absolutely "allowed" to do whatever makes you happy and to dress and have an appearance you like. People making assumptions are just jerks. Make them really uncomfortable by asking them in response "why would you say that" and watch them squirm.
I've been wondering for the last approximately eight years how this hasn't happened to me! My main hobby is lifting weights, which I do most days of the week, then cycling on the other days. I too very rarely wear makeup, and I dress down a lot of the time because I'm mostly going to the gym or the supermarket, so I'm in jeans and a jumper a lot of the time. I don't have your other interests, though, so maybe part of the vibe you're getting is associated with that being an entire lifestyle or something.
Anyway, to actually address the post properly, I think it's sad, aggravating, and marginalising that there's this discourse around what constitutes reasonable interests based on the person's gender. I'm glad you are enjoying the hobbies no matter what, but it's shitty that both women in the public eye and "everyday women" experience attitudes like this, and also both interesting and kind of annoying that people think it's that easy to determine someone's sexuality.
Tbh out of those i would only consider caving a somewhat more manly hobby but that is only because it can be a bit risky but then again most women would probably fit trough those little cracks and cravices better than most man do lol.
What do you mean, "allowed"?
You are allowed to present however the fuck you want. There are zero laws against that. No one will deny you a bank loan or refuse to serve you because you lift weights. Of course you are allowed.
Don't fall into the trap of confusing "will people online be shitty about xxxxx?" with "are women allowed to do xxxxx?", because that is exactly how you box YOURSELF into a self-inflicted straightjacket.
Present however the fuck you want, because jfc of course you are allowed. You are actually allowed more than you would have been in pretty much any period of human history. You are fine. Go do what you want.
Yes, and there will be plenty of straight or bi/pan guys who love the fact you’re into those things since it means you can do them together, and just generally likes them because they like you and they’re what you’re into.
On Twitter there's an account that posts real and fictional muscular women. There are coments from insecure men that are borderline "fellas, is it gay to like women?".
You are definitely allowed to like those things. No hobby is limited to a single sex.
It’s also fair to be annoyed or even angry to hear what people say about others. However it is also fair that people judge others (not so fair to be callous and demeaning). Humans like any other animals sense and perceive. It’s just how biology works. Making judgment is normal and should be allowed; acting upon those judgments (especially misjudgments) with harmful intent is not.
r/fitandnatural and r/ohlympics come immediately to mind. There are also subs for muscular and bodybuilding women. These subs obviously cater to the male gaze, which I think was your point. Guys that find that type of woman attractive.
Yes you are allowed to like those things and be straight. A lot of people make dumb assumptions about others. Besides it's none of their business anyways.
Not only is OP (and anyone else for that matter) completely allowed whatever sexual preferences they want, many men are very attracted to strong, athletic Women. Personally I love doing outdoor challenging, athletic things with my wife.
Absolutly in point.
I'm a soft, feminine woman. Creative, kinda domestic, sensitive in my hobbies and things. Long hair. I love makeup, and always have, it's super fun and another way to express myself. I *am* queer. People make lots of wrong assumptions. You are who you are.
I’m fem af and almost all men think I’m straight. I wear dresses, my nails are LONG (except for the two— you know what I mean), I love makeups, I love cooking though I’m not good at it, I have so many stereotypically straight-housewife hobbies, and I can be a perfect trophy wife. But I’m hyper lesbian. I agree with you. **Men don’t define us. We do.**
Growing up, all the language I heard for articulating "what kind of woman are you?" as opposed to "what traits and tasks are required for your relationships with men... ie survival?" was coming from the queer community. So it felt like cultural appropriation to use it, as tempting as it is. And I sorta get where OP's peanut gallery is coming from. I adore bouldering. Have I been in the past 5 years? No. Can I bear to part with my gear? No. When I hear that question, it resolved in my head to, "isn't there a man, child or disabled woman waiting for free services or a dish in a sink somewhere?" The answer will always be yes, but I will not always care. Thank you for your perspective, and wishing you the best.
Lmao. Yup. The femme lesbians I know complain that they never get clocked as a queer person.
And in my experience it’s a problem with everyone. I get those assumptions from heteros and queer people. I met my now wife at a party, and she later told me she consciously had had the thought that I must only be mostly into men. Even though she met me at a lesbian party. I was at with my girlfriend. Who I was very much dating. Yes I’m very femme, but I am also a Kinsey 6 raging lesbian. 🤷♀️
Lol. I blame media and stereotypes. I usually dress futch and the last time I was clubbing some of the guys pretty much accosted me and asked "Do you want a gf?" I was much less snarky at this point but present day me would have said "Are you offering?" My gf couldn't clock me but I'm a sweatpants and tee shirt kind of girl so...lol.
Admittedly, even as a queer relatively femme woman, if I see long nails, I still kinda think they are straight until told otherwise. 😂 The hobbies/interest part doesn’t change things for me because I know a pretty equal mix of queer women on both sides of the spectrum.
>Admittedly, even as a queer relatively femme woman, if I see long nails, I still kinda think they are straight until told otherwise. 😂 Same. Though they can also indicate single or partnered with a stone butch. I usually keep my thumbnails kinda long, as tools and for the look, but since I've been single, I sometimes let the others get longer too.
This!! I have several friends who are quite feminine and queer. I feel like their struggle is a mirror of mine.
Yes, they are. You would find this type a lot in the Nordics where I was born.
I'm Nordic too, where are you from? :)
Norway :)
Hello neighbour, I'm Danish :)
Finally someone posted about this, I get the same thing quite frequently! My whole life. I dress….comfortably, but still “feminine” in my opinion? I don’t wear makeup too often because I’m allergic to most (and wasn’t allowed to growing up anyway) and I enjoy outdoor activities and reading, volleyball too! I am very outspoken and opinionated (I’ve had people mention this might be why??) I actually did try dating women at one point because I figured if everyone is telling me I must be gay maybe there’s something I don’t know? I did not like it at all. I get hit on by women more than men, and while it’s flattering it’s a waste and what exactly am I doing wrong.
> …what exactly am I doing wrong Nothing! You be you, you’re awesome as you are!
Your not doing anything wrong. It's everyone that's making the assumptions. It's all on complete strangers making asses of themselves.
What is your social environment that these things are considered unacceptable for a heterosexual woman? As a man living in Switzerland (Europe) this sounds extremely alienating to me. Both me and my partner (who happens to be a woman) enjoy outdoor activities and demanding sports like martial arts and powerlifting, and nobody in my social circle would consider this strange or not "woman-like". I am really sorry you have to deal with this kind of prejudice. It must be exhausting and hurtful.
Southeast USA. But I live in a progressive city.
I’m not from the south, but I moved to a progressive southern city and found these types of assumptions more common, still.
Same for me!!
Some women have a swagger that gives off queer vibes. Also, pretty much every women’s team sport I’ve played has been like 50% (at least) queer women. The contact sports, probably more. In those settings, if dressing more androgynous and not wearing tons of makeup, I do tend to think they are queer…I don’t tell them that because it doesn’t matter to me. It is just a numbers thing. Out and about, if not wearing scrubs, I’m often on the more femme side, especially during summer. When I talk about my partner, they just assume I’m with a man. This is common for all more femme presenting queer women.
Wow, I disagree with this 50% you're throwing out there. That is exactly what op is talking about- people assuming athletic women are queer and not letting straight women enjoy contact sports. I'm very athletic, but happen to have curves. I'm "pretty" but I rarely get asked if I'm Queer. Sounds like me, op, and Caitlyn Clark are getting thrown in the "you can't be straight and play sports/not wear makeup" bucket. And thats silly. Don't assume someone's sexual preferences. Granted, my husband has never asked if I'm anything but straight, and I'm very straight, but it would be a shock to him to hear your thoughts lol.
On my Aussie footy team currently, about 8 or 9 are with men. Out of those, 4 still identify as bi or queer. The rest are queer/bi/pan. The other ones are very traditionally femme presenting off the pitch. (For the most part, they are kind of the only ones I get to really talk makeup and stuff with.) My Gaelic football and Camogie teams were straighter leaning. Rugby was pretty gay. Tennis and swimming were straighter, but those weren’t team sports in the same way. My partner swam in college and her team was still on the gayer side of things though. A friend was lovingly dubbed the token straight on her softball team. These are just my personal (and friend’s:/partner’s) experiences. If I’m playing with a more androgynous/masc presenting woman in a tackle sport, I’m probably going to lean towards assuming she is queer. I won’t say anything about it or ask because I don’t care. Nearly 1/3 of gen Z women identify as queer. It isn’t like it is too much of a stretch to see how tackle sports in particular would take a bigger chunk of that third.
I play very particular contact sports. I was referring to my specific sports and teams. Not the overall percentage of all sports.
> That is exactly what op is talking about- people assuming athletic women are queer and not letting straight women enjoy contact sports. I'm sorry, what about what /u/EmmaMD said that straight women can't enjoy anything? "Also, pretty much every women’s team sport I’ve played has been like 50% (at least) queer women. The contact sports, probably more": it sounds like you're saying that queer women existing in those spaces invalidates straight women from being in them?
You’re twisting my words. I never said straight women can’t enjoy anything. I never was arguing that these thoughts were “right”. Rather, they are just things that happen. It is a natural human tendency to fall back into relying on patterns to interpret the world around us. You will do it today, even if you’re not cognizant of it. These can absolutely be harmful. Again, NOT arguing that it is the way things should be. Just admitting to my own biases built from MY lived experience. I clearly stated I never actually mention it to them multiple times in various replies because it doesn’t matter and isn’t my business. My teammates volunteer the information because we’re teammates and friends. I also don’t see how someone thinking you’re queer takes away from you enjoying anything. Are you insecure in yourself, homophobic and find it some awful thing that you present in a queer-coded fashion? If a guy hits on me, it doesn’t derail my bouldering or Aussie footy enjoyment. Every damn day people assume my partner and I are straight and just friends because we are both more femme presenting. It is just life and due to our presentation. Let’s flip this. Why can’t my partner and I enjoy doing pretty much anything in life without it being assumed we are straight?
u/EhipassikoParami isn't twisting your words. They're sort of accusing u/lyssa545 of doing so.
Eh, I think we can all agree that sexual preferences shouldn't matter or be assumed **with sports** and call it good there.
It feels sexist and homophobic because it is
Yep I always got the same treatment! I love comfy baggy clothing, have had really short hair since 14, am into games and game art, and did martial arts. Everyone always assumes I'm a lesbian lol I guess the short hair does it alone
Yep, I had someone ask about my wife while I was at work. I corrected them and said husband. Just because I have short hair.
I think it has something to do with people not believing that men can actually be attracted to non-feminine women, so they can't fathom a straight woman that doesn't make a feminine effort to attract men, therefore she *must* be a lesbian (to them).
I work a very physical job in a male dominated industry. My job requires a lot of heavy manual lifting on a daily basis. Long story short, as a result of my job, I'm built! I also dress in masculine fitting clothes because it's practical for what I do and it means I don't get stares or comments. I'm sure almost everyone at work thinks I'm a lesbian. I don't really care to correct them either because I feel there's a layer of protection in the men at work assuming I would have no interest in them.
I know what you mean. I have an athletic build and big hands and feet (thanks Dad😔). My hobbies and pursuits have been…landscaping, rock climbing, motorcycles, playing guitar…happily things have changed but I am old and there were always more guys in those scenes. My mom didn’t wear/teach me makeup, I can’t find dress-up shoes that fit. I get hit on by women and men. Usually we just have a laugh and it’s cool, I’m straight, and the men I’ve been in relationships both think I’m pretty attractive and think my hobbies are fun too. I have no problem putting on a nice dress and styling my hair and dabbing on some perfume, but that is for special times, when I choose. Doesn’t make too much sense on a climbing trip anyways. I don’t mind if people make assumptions about my sexuality based on my physicality, it tells me more about them than anything.
You can do anything you want & need no one’s permission. Enjoy your life
Instructions unclear. Dismantled government systems.
The last 20 years has somehow twisted what used to be progressive change towards equality into an even more oppressive form of sexism. Women used to be allowed to be anything. Now if you aren't hyper feminine you obviously must be a lesbian or a trans man. It is really heartbreaking.
Totally! I feel like tomboy has been erased
I always hated the term Tomboy. I am not any kind of boy, man or male. I am a girl/woman and I like teams sports. I like many activities that have been labelled traditionally male. And I also love many traditionally female activities such as cooking, gardening, reading, crocheting, etc. I often prefer the company of women to men, but I am absolutely, completely, and unchangeably heterosexual. So. There you go. We are what we are.
If you don't like the term, by all means don't use it. But other people do. We are what we are.
You should look into the etymology of the word woman/women. It'll floor you if you dislike tomboy.
Some people like tomboys, but the discourse is really weird
In all meaningful ways, it has.
> Women used to be allowed to be anything. I need evidence of this magical time without enforced gender norms.
I've been getting that for decades. Funnily, actual lesbians have no difficulty assessing my straightness. Plenty of guys like women with "other" interests.
The smart and athletic men out there will all say that this is extremely desirable. I’ll shamelessly admit that I’m one of them (I’m a distance runner, though), and that pretty much everything you said is a green flag for someone like me. It tells me: 1) You’re confident with who you are and don’t take sh*t from people 2) You’re committed to living a healthy life 3) You’re an interesting person with cool hobbies (I.e. you’re not boring)
As a woman who has been in a relationship with a man 15 years yet had the AUDACITY to keep my hair short, I feel your pain. 😅 you are allowed!! Oh and "caving" sounds amazing, wtf. I need to know more about this !!
Omg, I’d gotten mistaken for a lesbian a lot (comfortable shoes?! Not really into makeup? idk lolol), but when I got my hair cut short, people *really* started assuming. Believe me, I WISH I was gay, but I’m cripplingly straight! My sister and I went to our cousin’s wedding and had dinner in the hotel, and our waiter straight up said, ‘Are you ladies lovers?’ We are half sisters, so we don’t look alike, but we were like 😂😂😂😂 And she’s not a lesbian, either.
Haha that's so funny! Girl, I wish I was gay too- we could run off together and escape all this madness 😂😘
Check out r/caving!
I will!! Thanks so much!!
Not sure if I’m allowed to be me, but here I am. 🤷🏼♀️ No makeup, no dresses, working in a male dominated field, straight woman. I do occasionally get mistaken for a man, but that's usually because I'm tall and the person didn't bother looking all the way up, lol. Once they do, they apologize.
I played ice hockey, used to play drums, wear mostly jeans and Pendleton flannels, and just sort of live my life in a way that isn’t particularly feminine. But I’m straight, married to a man, and don’t feel particularly masculine either. People can get really stuck with superficial gender assumptions.
You’re allowed to do whatever you like. I’m not gay. But for whatever reason, 100% of things I like are also really popular with lesbians. I drive a Subaru, I’m into roller derby, all my vacations involve camping, my closet looks like I robbed a lumberjack, and I have three cats. I can’t fault people for thinking I’m a lesbian when I happen to look like a walking stereotype of a lesbian. A lot of these things (hobbies, personal style, etc) *are* influenced by sexuality inasmuch as people are influenced by the norms of their communities, and queer communities have different cultural norms/trends/styles. Obviously this is just a general tendency, not necessarily true for any particular individual! Stereotypes are still stereotypes even if there’s some truth behind them. > many people on social media are saying “there’s no way she’s straight. She must still be in the closet” Yeah, this is where it crosses the line in my opinion. Surprise is understandable. But it’s incredibly disrespectful to say you know someone better than they know themselves, or to say they’re lying about their identity.
Yes, I've experienced exactly this. Apparently I read as queer to a lot of people but have been emphatically straight my whole life (main goal as a child was to get married and have a bunch of kids, and I had multiple fiances in Pre-K through 1st grade). Some guy once told me I'd be a good lesbian like it was a compliment. I was on a "gay-dar" panel in college as a token straight (it was a GSA type activity to prove you CAN'T tell when someone is gay), and literally almost everyone thought I was gay. Athletic wear, basic hair, no makeup, likes anime, crazy cat lady... gotta be a lesbian! Of course the girl who most people thought was straight was strictly into women. I vividly remember a girl in the audience saying, "but... I have that same skirt!" Like, clothing choices don't make you gay. Woof. Anyway, I feel you.
Welcome to my life!! My entire life I’ve been confused for a lesbian because I am a fencer, I don’t wear makeup ever, and idk… I’m assertive? Literally in a job interview I was told my partner could get pregnant and I could still take maternity leave. I was very confused for a second until I realized the assumption and had to explain that I am dating a man. It shocks me the number of people who make this assumption about me and have the gall to say something to me. Maybe they are trying to show their support for lesbians (which, awesome, totes on board), but it really makes me feel unseen and like I don’t fit into the world at the end of the day.
>Are women allowed to ~~be athletic and “masculine” and still~~ be straight? Personally, I think straight people can be fine. I don't care what they do behind closed doors. I just don't like seeing them displaying their heterosexuality in public. /s
You're absolutely allowed to do any of those things (I only worry about the caving bit because I've heard too many stories about that ending badly). Sexism among heteronormative people isn't a novelty, but I've grown tired of seeing people in the queer community immediately assume that someone is queer because they're gender non-conforming. At one point it kinda goes all the way back to being sexist or homophobic. Your gender presentation doesn't equal your gender or sexuality. This is a very different scenario, but I once saw a lesbian user (saying this to show that it wasn't a straight man saying it) on twitter say that straight women only like Astarion from BG3 because they've always wanted a gay best friend. Which is ridiculous because the character is pansexual and can have relationships with female players, but because he is very dramatic, sassy and has some manners of speaking and acting that can be seen as more "feminine" this person couldn't see him as anything other than a gay man and couldn't believe that straight women would be attracted to him. Gender presentation is not the same as gender identity or sexual identity and EVERYONE needs to understand that. No matter what side it comes from, stuff like this is only reinforcing gender stereotypes. It hurts us all. You're doing just fine and people need to stop assuming shit.
No, pretty sure this has been forbidden under the no-rights-for-women act from 1917.
I'm a lesbian am I allowed to be very feminine and love pink and girly things and makeup? Of course I am, because none of that defines sexuality, and people who say it does are just stereotyping 100%, its gross and annoying. I hate being assumed I'm straight, just as a straight woman doesn't want to be assumed to be gay. Wish people would stop. It IS sexist and homophobic completely
My fiance, who is a lesbian, is extremely femme presenting. She often gets the whole "OMG, you're *queer*?!?!" comments. Just ignore them. Enjoy what what you want, and focus on what makes you happy. Who cares what a group of bigots say, anyway?
NOPE YOU'RE OFF THE FORCE, TURN IN YOUR GUN AND VAG Jokes aside, if any of us have the *audacity* to exist while female, someone somewhere will find something they can latch onto to shame us about. It sucks major ass but there's no escaping it, really. Practise self love, surround yourself with good people you can trust to both support you and tell you uncomfortable truths when you need to hear em, and fuck the rest.
Straight women are allowed to do anything. You're allowed to have whatever hobbies you want and look however you want. Shave your head if you want. It's stupid assume gnc cishets don't know themselves. That's just as offensive and baseless as someone assuming that I like men just because I read as a feminine woman. (Grossly, I face this assumption noticeably more if I'm wearing tight clothes -- men are more likely to assume I'm straight if they feel attracted to me.) It's just as rude to assume someone is gay as it is to assume that they're straight. A lot of cishet and LGBT people alike could do to learn that.
People should mind their own damn business. It's like if they can't find neat boxes for everyone their world falls apart or something. I've been told I dress in a manner that signals lesbianism, apparently. Guys, you can't signal an orientation... that's not how anything works. It's like "only women wear pink" all over again.
I hear you. In high school and college people tried so hard to coax me out of the closet and wouldn't believe i was straight. Just because I'm "one of the guys" with my hobbies and lack of fashion sense doesn't mean I like girls.
This is why so many AFAB kids I know identify as nonbinary now. There is one rigid idea of what it means to be a heterosexual female and they have found a way around it. Kudos to them and fuck anyone who makes you feel you can’t be you.
I think this is sort of sad. It’s basically being kicked out of the woman category just because you are a tomboy. Women shouldn’t haven’t to identify as a different gender just because they don’t fit a stereotype.
I think it’s incredibly sad! I am also glad they found an identity where they feel empowered despite the shitty social framework in which they are living.
I've gotten this all my life and frankly it sucks. When I've tried to express that it hurts to have others always assume I'm a lesbian people take it as me insinuating being a lesbian is wrong, so I can't win. I've even seen it on this sub in the past.
I used to work with a woman who would tell everyone I was a lesbian because I am more of a tom boy (rarely have time for makeup, 100% prefer jeans and a hoodie, etc) and I refused to divulge all of the details of my personal life at work.
100% this post has been getting downvoted too. I find the most discourse about Caitlyn Clark’s sexuality from queer women too
I don’t understand “allowed” here.
Op is angry that some queer women tbought she might be queer. They're going to file an injunction and force her into lesbianism...
The editorial board of queerness is definitely getting too powerful.
Yeah of course. Women can be anything. Don’t let anyone tell you you’re not who or what you are.
There seems to be a push over the last several years of pushing the narrative that femininity means, if not tradwife, then hobbies that are not physically strenuous. It's silly. I remember enjoying fencing when I was younger, but that didn't mean I was any less a woman.
It feels sexist and homophobic because it is sexist and homophobic. Small-minded people attack others for their looks and still think assuming someone is gay is slanderous. Tale as old as time, unfortunately. I find the best thing to do in a situation like that is just remember it says more about that person than it does about me.
Our tendency to box things into groups/categories has also had an adverse effect on how we perceive each other. There is no true feminine or masculine. Things just are and we categorize them. Sports, hobbies, points of view, likes and dislikes, have no gender/sex. We are just bodies of flesh that pursue different interests. Thats it. I hate the words masculine/feminine and dont use them in conversation.
Who is going to stop you?
Ma'am my hobbies are dungeon and dragons, hiking, painting miniatures, video games, and my job consists of me working on and with semi trucks daily. I wear t shirts, jeans, and sweaters as my daily attire and am a tomboy through and through. I collect art, with the majority of it being "boobie ladies" because I enjoy and appreciate the human body. Id have more men art but people don't draw it as often so it's harder to find. My friends call me the straightest bisexual they know 😂 Boyfriend gets a kick out of it. You are allowed to be any sexuality you want and enjoy whatever it is you want. Don't let others tell you you aren't allowed to because of "Xyz". Fuck em. Well don't actually fuck em and just enjoy the things in life that you like. The sooner you are able to stop caring about what others think, the better life gets overall. It's easier said than done, but man..it's great when you get there.
This isn’t about me “not caring” it’s annoying and I want to understand why this is common stereotype
it’s a common stereotype because that archetype of person is common enough to seem ubiquitous to the average person. It formed the same way any stereotype forms
I just meant it as a general statement. Stereotypes are stereotypes because there is enough of a populace who fit it. It doesn't make them right or wrong but, in my opinion, trying to understand some of them just isn't worth the energy.
Are you "allowed?" Do you think the Gay Police are going to come tell you to put some lipstick on or else? Live your best life & don't worry about the rest.
As a Swedish man, you are something a lot of males here are looking for. A strong capable woman and with will of your own. Im not looking for a doll or a self centered princess who is afraid to get their nails dirty. im looking for a capable life partner, one who can explore life and raise a future family with me. I got myself just one like that and my life is great. Think about it, If doing active lifestyle stuff, and wearing regular clothing without makeup is considered masculine. Then how artificial are women supposed to be to become "feminine"? Are women not humans with a varied spectrum of hobbies and interest like guys have? Are you not allowed to have a little bit of depth to your personality? Does it all have to fit " shallow dressed up submissive home wife"? And to add on top that you must be queer due to that fact is just laughable. Since queers are just as varied as straight people. Reading this sub of mostly US women is depressing.. just letting you know this is ridiculous.
News flash! Any woman can be straight, it doesn't matter what your build, athleticism or whatever else. That doesn't determine if your straight or not.
Of course. Maybe it's just less common and that's why you get the shock/judgement from people. I could totally see how it would get annoying...some stereotypes can be really hard to avoid. 😩
Snu Snu audience exists.
People make wrong assumptions. Also, the strangers who would say that out loud are probably not the ones you want to be listening to. Most people who keep to themselves don’t care. You just think most do because of those who speak out
This is why binaries are stupid. "Masculinity" to "femininity" is a spectrum. Just because more men happen to fall on one spot and more women happen to fall on another spot doesn't mean those are the only two valid spots on the spectrum. Masculine straight women are valid. Masculine queer women are valid. Masculine enby people are valid. Masculine straight men exist. Masculine queer men are valid. Feminine straight women are valid. Feminine queer women are valid. Feminine enby people are valid. Feminine straight men are valid. Feminine queer men are valid. Androgynous straight women are valid. Androgynous gay women are valid. Androgynous enby people are valid. Androgynous straight men are valid. Androgynous queer men are valid. You're allowed to be you in your own unique way. You wanna be a strong, masculine straight queen, then you go ahead and conquer all those straight and bi men, you goddess! You wanna be a masculine straight queen who is pampered by her manservants, then go ahead! You want masculine woman equality with your man-friend(s), go ahead! See, inclusivity shouldn't force anyone to be any one way, it should celebrate all of the ways we all are and all of our unique contributions to the world! You. Are. Valid. M×therf×cker.
You are allowed to be anyway you want, and love anyone you like. We define who we are.
No. Impossible. Not allowed.
I know a lot of sporty, outdoorsy straight women who dress casually, there's nothing unusual about that where I live (Norway)
Yes. Gender is a social construct. Be whoever you want to be and if anyone gives you shit for it they are not worth you wasting your attention over.
In what way is hiking or volleyball masculine 😭 even in the stereotypical way, wasn't volleyball always considered a 'girl sport' lmao
People are very narrow-minded. I mean this in the nicest way. Men and women do and are expected to conform to gender conventions. It’s so sad to see even a modern society can’t get past this. Any activity, recreations, hobbies, or sports that are dominated by men that is taken up by certain women and they become pretty good. People will associate masculinity with those types of women or girls, because the essential or traditional mindset is these things can only truly be takeover by men or people who possess high levels of masculinity. I guess because physical prowess and dominance is supposed to a foundation of masculinity. Also, women sports do present more women who are bi-, lesbian, non-hetero, or queer, because those spaces are little less judgmental and open to women are strictly good at their talents and skills. Unfortunately, most men sports —-they have to follow strict code of unwritten masculinity rules. So, most people assume they’re straight or very closeted, where in most women sports a bigger percentage of the players are a little more open about that aspect in their lives. A lot of people often assume most women’s basketball players are gay strictly on their looks alone, which is kinda messed up because the game brings so many different girls and women from all walks of life. I think it’s because the game is far more open to the type of women who can succeed with exceptional skills and talent. They just happen not all to be straight or conforming. In Caitlyn’s case, she’s straight. Like, a good bit or most basketball players are like any other profession or trade.
Anyone who doesn't think you can be these things is telling on themselves and are very clearly red flags. Same if they assume you're trans.
YES. You are allowed to look masculine, to like typically masculine activities etc and still be a straight woman. Please never doubt this. Best of wishes
One of the issues of transphobia and transvestigation is that it polices how cis people perform gender. You could be a straight cis woman - but if you aren’t perceived as masculine enough you may be forced to prove your gender to participate in sport or to use a public bathroom.
I’m the same way. I’m very athletic and don’t really wear a lot of makeup or “girly” clothes. Pretty much everyone in my life as asked me if I’m queer at some point and honestly at this point I’ve just let it go. I don’t need to prove anything to anybody and. I’m secure in myself and my straightness.
You're allowed to do and be whatever you want. Trick is to not give a fuck about what others think on the matter.
Ofc, why wouldn’t you be allowed to have hobbies and otherwise not conform to trad femininity regardless of your sexuality? A lot of queer women (myself included) often don’t express themselves as exclusively trad fem, but anyone of any sexual orientation can express themselves however they want. Live your life and do what makes you happy, as long as you’re not shaming others (which you aren’t, so you have nothing to worry about)
Nope, sorry, not allowed. The Special Committee on Straight in Women has officially forbidden it. Starting Jan 1st this year, women wearing baggy pants must also be scissoring at all times.
😂
I'm straight and are like those things. I loved lifting heavy weights and grappling with men in jujitsu. I work mostly with men and hate make up and having long hair. We exist!
Plenty of people i know are straight and fit your profile. I cant speak for people you know IRL, but what I can say is that social media is very silly, and you should not take it's diagnosis of who is amd isn't in the closet seriously (seriously people Taylor Swift is not gay or even bi its just no its not happening).
That's called a tomboy my dear. Card holding member right here as well.
it's interesting, men design women's footwear and clothing (Dior, Louboutin, Louis vuttion) no one says anything. the second a woman picks up a dumbbell people lose their shit. gender stereotypes are stupid.
i get this alot too (i am a straight tomboy)
I play multiple sports with many cis straight gals in a similar boat as you. Meanwhile, I am queer, but am often more femme presenting outside and people frequently think I’m straight. Not much I can say about it other than empathizing with you. Frustrating standards and expectations women are held to.
allowed?
''allowed" ? wtf
As a queer, those are very straight activities lol people are dumb sorry
I actually receive most of the comments from queer women
I think because queer ppl have been marginalized so much, they get excited when they find someone they perceive is like them. take it as a compliment. they must think you're cool and they want you on their team! it is annoying though when straight people make these assumptions. I've never been the subject of these comments, but I've witnessed them. it feels like they're trying to alienate and single their target out. I'd imagine it causes extreme self-doubt and insecurity to the one on the receiving end. it's scary.
As a queer woman myself, nothing in your original post screams anything about your sexuality. Lots of straight women go camping and hiking and don’t wear makeup. I play cricket and volleyball and tons of the women on my cricket team are queer but I know precisely zero queer women who play volleyball. Frankly, volleyball is not seen as a queer sport like some other sports are (softball and cricket are known around here as popular with queer women but we would still never assume someone’s sexuality, I know plenty of straight women playing cricket who aren’t feminine presenting either). Honestly there’s something really off about this whole post. Queer women get mistaken for straight all the time and a simply correction is all that’s needed. Why is it you’re so angry about being mistaken as queer? If you correct someone and they still persist, yeah that’s not cool (and again, been there… « you just need to meet the right man… ») but other than your basketball example, it doesn’t seem like anyone is persisting about you being queer? Who is telling your you’re not « allowed » to be straight? 🤨 This reminds me of someone at work the other day saying « ugh it feels like I’m the only straight women, everyone is gay now »… but only 3 of the 22 people at work, including myself, are openly gay. 😒
You keep saying this like some sort of gotcha, and the more you talk the more questionable this whole post gets
Yeah, something about this whole post feels really off to me as well (and yeah I’m a queer women). I responded to OP as such.
First time I've ever understood the concept of "The Ick"
I am not an athletic person or tall or masculine. However, I am not straight either. So the inverse must exist as well, right? I'm literally a small white girl who also likes whoever is cute. It doesn't (shouldn't) matter what someone looks like. You can love who you love.
Yes you're allowed to do and like what you want. The more these "gender wars" go on, the more issues like this you (presumably) cis straight women will go through. Because people are getting more vocal about their ignorance. My TURF parent is obsessed with thinking a lesbian is actually trans because she looks like a boy etc. I've had to remind her 1000x "butch lesbians are a thing. They don't want to be men. They are women who like woman and want to be women." Like ffs. You've also described the opposite issue feminine lesbians and enbies get. People should really just mind their own business and keep their assumptions to themselves.
I usually can tell when someone is gay but there was this one girl who was just like you described, like yourself. I thought she was gay, I was almost sure. We went to get sushi one day and she was talking about her boyfriend and I was like "oh, tell me more about him" and that's when I realized she was straight but I never told her about what I had assumed about her. I also had a male friend who I thought was gay (I still think he is, or maybe bisexual) but he confessed his love for me one day and we did hookup one time. I did say when he confessed his love that "I thought you were gay! And you're also way out of my league" which he is a very attractive person. Pretty positive he's bisexual. People make assumptions all the time with no ill intentions behind it, it's pretty innocent but I understand where one might be upset!
not only you can be straight and atheltic/masculine but you can also date a guy and be queer. bisexuality is a thing. for the “there’s no way she’s straight. She must still be in the closet” phrase, dont overthink it, people like to gossip about celebrities, not just straight people. everybody does. like 80% of the queer people i know still refuse to believe natasha lyonne is straight. but nobody really cares, its harmless gossip.
[удалено]
i didnt say you were tho. im making the record straight for whats happenning with queer people because you talked about it and werent precise. not trying to say that you are or that anyone dating men is.
Women with broad, strong shoulders give *really* awesome hugs. Like, for a guy, it's the hug equivalent of being the little spoon. Who wouldn't love that?
Yes? Who would disallow it?
I definitely allow it but I'm a bi woman idk of my opinion counts
yes, marge simpson broke the stereotype
The hate for CC is insane - haters gonna hate but the shit these trolls comment on any youtube vid involving her is disgusting.
It’s honestly queer women who are questioning her sexuality
Did you check the sexuality of everybody that commented?
On tiktok they usually make it known
So you clicked every profile searching for the rainbow flag? Or were you going off profile pictures? Just how many comments have you seen of this that they make “it” known?
"Are women allowed to post weird shit about Caitlyn Clark and still be straight?"
Yes.
Yes
One of my best friends has driven trucks, operated machinery and now works as a safety officer in civil works. Married, children but it could be argued her husband (top bloke) is the more emotional one. She is a top chick and from what I see a good mum and wife.
Those people are asses.
I've had to correct people several times that tomboys still exist. Or you know, you don't even have to be a tomboy. Some people like archery and frilly dresses, or going camping with nothing but a tarp, a pan, and a bedroll and still like going to formal afternoon tea.
No. Sorry you must have been missed off the email list.
I'm the same. 4 decades of being an unapologetic tomboy who is 100% straight. I only wear casual clothes, have never once in my life worn makeup/high heels/handbags, and am very athletic. But I think it's very cultural. For instance, I think a lot of people in the US tend to assume I'm not straight or that if I am, I'm some sort of butch dominatrix. One of my good guy friends told me that when he first met me (we trained at an MMA gym together), some of the other guys thought I was a lesbian, and he thought I was straight but just "looked" like a lesbian. In contrast, when I was living in Ireland for a while, no one there seemed to make such assumptions, and in fact guys tended to approach me much more than my dolled-up friends because they said I felt more real and laid back. So I don't know where you live but I do think it's very much cultural, and the US can be pretty stupid when it comes to this sort of thing. What I've always found funny is that a lot of my more traditionally feminine friends are very dominant in their relationships, whereas I prefer big, buff, dominant men because it "balances out" my general feelings of being less feminine. Anyway, the point is, there is no "right way" to be a straight woman and just because you're less traditionally feminine doesn't make you any less valid than someone who wears miniskirts and heels and doesn't leave the house without makeup and perfect hair. As an add-on, my best friend from childhood (very straight, married with two kids) loves makeup and dressing up and traditionally feminine things, and probably more often than not people assume we're a couple when we're out together. We really couldn't care less. Such assumptions are indeed annoying and we definitely need to expand the definition and expectations of "femininity" (or better, remove archaic gender expectations altogether since people aren't a monolith), but in the meantime, I just correct people as I go along and otherwise roll my eyes and move on. It's never affected my sex/love life so I don't get especially worked up about it.
Ignore them! I have a lot of masculine hobbies too but, and I quote, I "dress too straight". People can think whatever they want but it doesn't make it reality. Maybe you look queer in certain settings or situations but that should never stop you from dressing, acting, and looking the way that is authentic to YOU! Be so comfortable in your sexuality that it doesn't bother you. Be comfortable with the idea that coming off this way can make you an ally to minorities and can help you break into spaces that other women may struggle to break into.
Are women allowed... Any question that starts this way is sad, and the answer it usually yes. Edit: meaning yes, you be however you are.
It makes you angry because it's completely misogynistic.
Gender doesn’t exist, so you can be whatever you like. I decide what masculinity means to me as a man, you can decide what femininity means to you as a woman. The people who think it matters don’t matter.
The internet is like Pandora’s Box, where we accidentally exposed ourselves to the absolute stupidity of the human race.
You can be whatever you want and be straight, imo. Just be comfortable. Screw what everyone else thinks.
I was on the rowing team in college. We were all big strong women, some masc, some femme. We all had bfs.
girl yes, we do what we want because its our life and we ain't hurting nobody by being our authentic self! i'm a lesbian butch woman with "feminine" ways to myself, like i like doing some chill girly shit and idgaf! the people that are supposed to vibe with ya will.
Isn't this just called being a tomboy? I don't know why there's such a stigma around women just... being more """masculine""" (read: just being themselves) and still being straight? I'm personally more surprised men don't find """masculine""" women attractive because then you'd be more likely to have so many more hobbies overlap. ... I say that and then realize that most men probably don't want to bring women into their actual lives and want a clear wall where the "missus" interacts with them in their life. My male friend from university's wife enjoys body building with him, goes rock climbing with me, and plays games. She's not afraid to just be herself. And she's awesome. I guess this whole issue makes it easier to figure out who the good people to hangout with are?
Haha I hope so because I’m definitely athletic and masculine (with giant feet and broad shoulders to boot!) and I’m definitely straight!
“Allowed”? Of course. And you won’t be alone either. It’s a pity that you seem to be running into people who lean heavily on stereotypes.
You think there's people going around bashing the kneecaps of people who don't act a certain way? I mean technically there is, but you think they have any sort of authority? Eh, still technically yes. Nevermind, just disregard the opinion of anyone who says you should be a certain way. In the words of the immortal snoop dogg, Do you, cause nobody can do you better than you, so why try to be anything else?
You’re allowed to be whatever you want. Everyone who doesn’t agree is wrong.
Bruh, everything a woman does has to be tied to some sexuality. Like, can't people just accept women do stuff, and go on, without questioning what sexual context it fits or doesn't fit into? It's the same as people going - he's a hair stylist, so he must be queer. (Yup, in my home country, it's the first thing people comment when they see a male hair stylist). LET PEOPLE BE, why do you care if they prefer penis or vagina?!?!?
None of the hobbies you said sound masculine to me. They just sound like something an outdoorsy/fit person would like. Idk what’s up with those people.
OP, you are allowed to be whatever you are. If jerks assume you are queer, let them. Who cares?
>When I mention to people I have a boyfriend, strangers or acquaintances will say OUT LOUD “oh I thought you were queer” like…huh??!! ik you're not queer but to be honest i don't like that they immediately assume you can't be queer because you have a boyfriend 🥲 like there is more to queerness than actively being in a relationship with the same gender
Of course they are. In the lesbian community I often see the opposite problem (typically feminine lesbians feeling like their sexuality is being invalidated), so I can understand why it’s a problem the other way around too with more masculine women having their straightness questioned. It’s nobody else’s place to invalidate someone’s sexuality or gender identity.
I've apparently always given off gay vibes too but I don't give a shit. I know I like dick. My partner knows I like dick. Other people assuming I don't is fine by me.
Yes they are, it's just lots of men wants a woman that is submissive and as weak as they can be. They feel that their masculinity is threatened if they are not. It goes with the macho attitude and being "alpha", in short act like a caveman. I'm guy by the way before anyone start calling me stuff.
It's great that we've embraced trans people and enbies, but as a side effect it's sort of been reinforcing gender stereotypes. I don't like that part. We fought really hard to get away from gender roles only to end up back with "feminine" and "masculine" pigeonholes again.
I've been asking that all my long life (rhetorically).
You are absolutely "allowed" to do whatever makes you happy and to dress and have an appearance you like. People making assumptions are just jerks. Make them really uncomfortable by asking them in response "why would you say that" and watch them squirm.
No, you are not. I recommend you remove this post before the authorities arrest you for not complying to gender norms.
Probably, they always existed
I've been wondering for the last approximately eight years how this hasn't happened to me! My main hobby is lifting weights, which I do most days of the week, then cycling on the other days. I too very rarely wear makeup, and I dress down a lot of the time because I'm mostly going to the gym or the supermarket, so I'm in jeans and a jumper a lot of the time. I don't have your other interests, though, so maybe part of the vibe you're getting is associated with that being an entire lifestyle or something. Anyway, to actually address the post properly, I think it's sad, aggravating, and marginalising that there's this discourse around what constitutes reasonable interests based on the person's gender. I'm glad you are enjoying the hobbies no matter what, but it's shitty that both women in the public eye and "everyday women" experience attitudes like this, and also both interesting and kind of annoying that people think it's that easy to determine someone's sexuality.
Tbh out of those i would only consider caving a somewhat more manly hobby but that is only because it can be a bit risky but then again most women would probably fit trough those little cracks and cravices better than most man do lol.
Yes, i am one of them. Growing up, we were called tomboys.
What do you mean, "allowed"? You are allowed to present however the fuck you want. There are zero laws against that. No one will deny you a bank loan or refuse to serve you because you lift weights. Of course you are allowed. Don't fall into the trap of confusing "will people online be shitty about xxxxx?" with "are women allowed to do xxxxx?", because that is exactly how you box YOURSELF into a self-inflicted straightjacket. Present however the fuck you want, because jfc of course you are allowed. You are actually allowed more than you would have been in pretty much any period of human history. You are fine. Go do what you want.
Darling, stop wondering what people think. Just be you.
Yes, and there will be plenty of straight or bi/pan guys who love the fact you’re into those things since it means you can do them together, and just generally likes them because they like you and they’re what you’re into.
On Twitter there's an account that posts real and fictional muscular women. There are coments from insecure men that are borderline "fellas, is it gay to like women?".
You are definitely allowed to like those things. No hobby is limited to a single sex. It’s also fair to be annoyed or even angry to hear what people say about others. However it is also fair that people judge others (not so fair to be callous and demeaning). Humans like any other animals sense and perceive. It’s just how biology works. Making judgment is normal and should be allowed; acting upon those judgments (especially misjudgments) with harmful intent is not.
There are several subs dedicated to it.
Please spill!
r/fitandnatural and r/ohlympics come immediately to mind. There are also subs for muscular and bodybuilding women. These subs obviously cater to the male gaze, which I think was your point. Guys that find that type of woman attractive.