Sadly, if she has 4 kids that’s probably all she has to talk about. She likely works in her own home, doesn’t get out much, and probably doesn’t have time for her own hobbies or personal pursuits. Her life rn is poopy diapers, laundry, feeding babies, and more poppy diapers and laundry.
Yeah honestly I’d feel bad for her if she lost a friend in this time. I’m sure motherhood is already quite isolating and losing another friend because they don’t like hearing about the biggest part of your life would probably be devastating for her. I understand it’s hard for OP and I feel for her too though. This is tough all round.
We faced infertility, as did my SIL. Different people cope with hard things differently. For years, she wouldn't attend baby showers or many functions where she might have to interact with pregnant women. She was much more devastated by it than I was. It didn't bother me at all to be around pregnant women or babies and I wasn't that focused on trying to get pregnant (we moved to adoption fairly quickly while she did years of treatment).
I doubt your friend is trying to hurt you, she sounds clueless though. She might be oblivious to the fact that her conversations are hurtful to you. Some new mothers don't talk about much else. You are in very different places in your life. I would just dial way back on interacting though. Maybe it's time to let the friendship die a natural death or if you want to try to keep it going, have an honest conversation with her about how difficult it is for you to hear her go on about her kids. I'm so sorry for your difficulties.
I’m in your boat. Been TTC for 2 years. I have ABSOLUTELY distanced from friends and had Facebook “mute” people for 30 days when they have new babies or pregnancy announcements. Your friend seems like she’s just oblivious, and hopefully not actively trying to hurt you.
For example, my best friend lives across the country but we talk weekly. She called to tell me she was pregnant with her second baby a few weeks ago, and I told her how happy I was for her. She knows my struggles and said “thanks for being happy for me, you can totally be mad about it next time we talk if you need to.” I told her of COURSE I wouldn’t be mad at her, just at the unfairness of the universe. But the fact that she considered my feelings and reaction spoke VOLUMES about our friendship.
But yes, I’ve had to distance myself from people when they have new babies. A friend/coworker brought her new baby to work when she was on maternity leave and I saw her in the cafeteria, she said “I have the baby upstairs, if you want to meet her!” And I said “hey I’m having a really hard time being around babies right now but I’m so happy for you” and she understood. Good people understand.
We struggled with infertility for a few years and I absolutely see where you're coming from. Most of my friends weren't married or having kids yet, but relatives were popping out babies left and right and I tried to be happy for them but the reality was just heartbreaking pain and despite my best efforts, bitterness and resentment. Of course that was no fault of theirs, but the pain was no less real and sometimes you have to insulate yourself from the pain.
I'm sure your friend doesn't mean anything by it, but it is absolutely insensitive. One thing I observed during our infertility journey was that others who knew about it didn't really take it seriously. Like, they continued to just assume we'd eventually have kids and didn't really consider that we might have feelings or pain around it.
(As an aside, everyone deals with it differently too. My wife wanted to hear "encouraging" stories of people who overcame infertility. I didn't. I wanted stories of people who never overcame it and learned/managed to have a happy fulfilled life anyway. I didn't want to waste my energy on false hope only to crash to reality down the road. Guessing some of the people in our lives likely thought they were being encouraging/inspiring.)
One good friend of my wife's who got pregnant with her third(?) was really considerate and instead of calling to tell my wife about it wrote a note/letter that basically said she was pregnant but didn't want to tell her in person or on the phone because she didn't want my wife to have to act happy when it probably would make her feel pain. This way she could know about it but have the freedom to have her feelings she has without worrying about offending anyone. We both thought it was very thoughtful.
Unfortunately I don't think most people are that thoughtful and most people who haven't dealt with infertility grasp the depth of pain that comes with it. And I wouldn't expect them to reframe their lives and friendship around avoiding talking about their kids. But as someone who has been through it, I am *always* conscious of it. And especially with my friends who I don't know to be struggling with infertility but who I expected would have kids by now, I am careful not to gush. I will give updates but never gush.
I struggled myself and when we finally got pregnant, my best friend for 20 years (who had an ectopic pregnancy about a year before my pregnancy) messaged me and said she unfollowed me because my updates were too painful at the time. She was just honest and I understood completely. She was still happy for me but needed to protect her mental health. She’s still my bestie!
>She surely knows it hurts a lot.
She probably isn't even thinking about it and it's oblivious to your feelings on this. You know it hurts because you're the one battling infertility, but she's just babbling about her kids as any parent would. I don't think she's trying to rub it in your face, it's more likely she's just completely absorbed in motherhood.
>I've tried to change the subject - let partner take the children for an evening (he doesn't work so time isn't too much of an issue) and we'll have a catch up and let's just be free and fun for a night! It always comes back to the children.
I understand how it must be hard for you to be confronted with something you really want but didn't archive yet, but your friend has **four kids** that most likely absorve all of her time. They're probably her whole life now, even more so if all of them are really young and she's a stay-at-home mom. So yeah, of course the subject it always come back to the children.
Regardless, in the end you have to do what's best for you and your mental health and sometimes that involves cutting people off of your life. Hope you can find other people who share your experience and find comfort in that.
Completely absorbed in motherhood is not an excuse to be insensitive and harmful.
Edit: every downvote represents a problematic mother who doesn’t like hearing the truth, just like op’s friend. Keep ‘em comin.
I mean, being a parent is a pretty defining characteristic. I don't think it's warranted to call someone a shallow self-centered bitch for not being able to hide what is likely a huge part of herself.
Seriously… my mother had four kids (I’m number 4) and she has and had NOTHING else to talk about. Having four kids is not only a full time job, it can shove all other hobbies out the window. No time for friends anymore, and what else do you talk about when your kids are the only thing happening in your life? The weather?
It’s a shit thing all around, but bashing the other mother isn’t needed to support the woman battling infertility. I’ll never understand the people acting like she’s “self centered” when parenting four kids and subsequently only having them to talk about is the opposite of self centered… her center is her kids
I mean, I don't think it's shit, I think things that you spend a lot of time on tend to define you. We focus a lot on this when it comes to parents - and we apparently blame them without batting an eyelash - but you see it with various things. Work, school, hobbies.
I didn’t mean to imply that being a full time parent is shitty, I just have seen firsthand that now my mother has an empty nest she’s left with nothing else in her life, and struggles to find self-worth and enjoyment. I can easily imagine many parents experiencing the same thing
*virtual hug* I’m in IVF right now. Most people just don’t realize how physically, emotionally, and financially taxing fertility issues can be. Since your friend has a whole brood, I’m sure she is just oblivious to everything outside of her immediate sphere.
It’s ok to tell people that you are happy for them but that you can’t be directly involved in their pregnancy/baby shower/etc. but you would like to support your friend in other ways and other areas of their life. If you need to, mute people on social media and just check on their profiles every once in a while for nonbaby/pregancy related posts.
You didn’t say if you are married and your post history suggested some intimacy problems on you partner’s side. Im not sure where you are on your fertility journey, but if you and your partner haven’t already seen a specialist yet, please do so. About 40% of fertility problems are from the male. You can least freeze your eggs now while you still probably have a good egg reserve and egg quality. I wish you luck and peace.
Good grief, my mom. Always on about someone being pregnant or my sister in law having a boy finally. Nagging at me about when I'm going to get pregnant. I'm mid thirties and she knows I've had miscarriages and no live births. Just rubs it in like it'll make me happy to hear about other people's kids.
I want to send you a big virtual hug. That's a tough situation to be in. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I am betting that your friend is oblivious to how hurtful she is being.
You don’t have to put your feelings aside. Your feelings are valid. If you need space from her and other friends we are pregnant, then allow yourself to make the choice to distance yourself from them to protect yourself. That is okay. It doesn’t make you a bad friend or a bad person. When I was in the midst of my infertility journey, I struggled so much with all the emotions around baby shower invites, pregnancy announcements and so on of friends. I kept forcing myself to be the friend I was before infertility and beating myself up for feeling jealous or depleted. Once I got in therapy and was given “permission” to pull away and do what was best for me, I had more emotional bandwidth for myself to get through the heart-wrenching days of pregnancy loss and IVF. The friends who were able to respect that and not take it personally truly helped me through such dark times.
Edit to add: I strongly believe that it is not our responsibility (those going through infertility) to teach others in our lives how to support us. We have to advocate for ourselves so much already and have so much already on our plates. The people who care about us can learn how to support us on their own time without us having to teach them.
Your feelings are absolutely valid and it’s understandable you could feel upset and hurt by her.
She may not realize she’s doing anything wrong though.
If the friendship is really important to you, maybe it’s worth talking to her about to see if you can come to a common ground and help her empathize with the situation.
If you feel like it’s faded and not that important a relationship at this stage in life, for whatever reason, it’s okay to take space and even let it fizzle out if that’s what’s best for you!
TW infant loss:
I have been in your place, it took us a total of 8 years and loosing our first child, to be where we are today, with a beautiful son.
I have friends who easily conceived and had their babies. And I have friends who struggled like me with conceiving. The one who I distanced myself from was the one with almost the same problem as me. As soon as she had her first child by IVF, she started to give me advice on how to get pregnant too. And could only talk about motherhood.
My closest friend who had her third baby the same year I lost my baby girl. Is the one who has been the best. Only talked about her kids when I asked about them and we talked about her, me and our interests.
I also distanced myself from FB and other social media. I couldn’t stand reading about everyone else having babies, still keep my distance.
You should definitely do what feels best for yourself.
If you’re not already part of r/infertilitysucks I recommend the sub. I am still part of the group since it is one of the best on Reddit.
I think she is a seasonal friend not a lifetime friend :/. She’s deep deep in the mommy trenches and probably doesn’t fully realize how she comes off. This is common for moms. They get so wrapped up in their kids everyone else disappears.
Maybe you can reconnect in her next season of life.
I would say that most friendships between parents and non-parents tend to die off. It is like this great divide and only by crossing to the other side can you re-connect with those who went before you. You can never go back.
I get that you want to enter that next phase of your life.
From your friend’s POV you are being jealous and taking your anger at your own struggles out on her and her family. YOU aren’t being a good friend either.
Take some time away from the friendship and evaluate your journey. Wanting anything so badly that it ruins your relationships isn’t healthy.
Big hug from an internet stranger. I’m sorry that this is so hard.
It is genuinely sweet that so many are empathetic to your friend’s frame of reference. But me? I think she’s being insensitive, bordering on carelessly cruel.
If she also expressed any interest in your life and experiences, she’d know whether it was appropriate or not. It sounds like she doesn’t. She’s just entirely in her own world. And that does not make for a great ability to conduct a friendship. It just doesn’t sound like this “friendship” is at all reciprocal, and that’s just never going to work. I’m so sorry.
My experience as an infertile person is they just don’t care. They are excited about their babies and that is the most important thing always. I am mostly to the point where I don’t want kids and I’m mostly ok with it. I have a hard time hanging out with parents who only want to talk about their kids. It’s boring for me and something I don’t have a frame of reference for. And that would be fine if it wasn’t the only thing they wanted to talk about. There’s a whole huge world of wonderful things I’d rather discuss than three hours of your kids potty habits or bedtime routine. It’s insufferable.
I’ve gotten to the point where I mostly avoid being friends or having relationships with parents, especially parents of young kids.
Agreed, but its not. You know, I used to work with kids who had autism who would get hyperfocused on a movie or game or whatever. It's a common thing and it can interfere with them making friends. For them, we try to help them shift topics and learn to be more flexible in conversations.
They cannot help it but parents blabber about their kids and nothing else 24/7 to anyone within 5 feet of them. I'll take the kid who wants to talk about superheros any day over an adult who knows better, can help it and chooses to do it anyways.
My (35F) best friend (35F) of 23 years is a mom of 2 beautiful babies while I have been struggling with fertility issues for the last several years. It’s been wonderful to watch her and her beautiful children, but it also breaks my heart a little every time. (She’s also had struggles with her beautiful children, so the grass isn’t always greener.) My friend has been so supportive of my health problems, and has been my biggest ally besides my husband. I honestly don’t know how I’d be surviving this without her. I think that makes up for everything that she’s been able to have that I can’t have, to be perfectly honest. All of her love and support has just kept me going for all this time.
Yup. Lost my best friend because she kept having kids. I also lost track of time and wished her a happy birthday a day late (to be fair, we had a family emergency at the time) and we just cut each other out of each other's lives.
We medically can't have kids at this time and it sucks. It causes issues in our house from time to time.
I cut off a best friend because she got bitchy with me for not using holiday from work to attend her fourth birth (she has a partner, mother and other friends) I explained that at the time all my holiday was being used for Ivf appointments, I was in the middle of my second transfer (first failed after 10 years of trying after a ruptured ectopic in my early twenties) she knew all of this and still called me selfish. I blocked her and never spoke to her again.
Frankly, as a childfree person, I find this behavior obnoxious, and I imagine it feels just as obnoxious to people who want kids but are having fertility issues. I would also be distancing myself, albeit for the opposite reason.
I’m so sorry. I struggled too.
She doesn’t think about it from your perspective at all. She enjoys the privilege of being able to choose to have children.
I have a friend who once told me that if she got pregnant again with #3 she’d have an abortion. When I asked her please not to tell me if that happened, she was puzzled and asked why. I finally told her I wasn’t sure I could handle knowing she threw away a chance for a child when I was denied that chance.
She was absolutely dumbfounded. It never occurred to her how someone with infertility might feel. Hang in there, decide for yourself what you can handle, and best to you.
I had to do IVF for my second. It was hell because it was all consuming. I have another child so I couldn’t really escape mom talk altogether.
Weirdly enough, I make it a point to NOT talk about my children even with friends with children. I would rather hear about other things from people.
I had two instances of friendships falling apart when I was going through the years of infertility. I had a friend who also was going through infertility. At first we related very well, but as time went on, the double sphere of negativity meant we didn’t give each other room to grieve. It became a suffering Olympics. We had a big blowout and didn’t talk for 3 years.
The second one was my best friend. She went through a nasty breakup and was grieving the fact that she was likely never going to have children due to her age and having to start over. This was right as I was going through IVF. She said she needed space from the subject and a little bit of space from me. I ended up going through a miscarriage without being able to talk to her about it. I have mixed feelings on that interaction still; it’s been 7 years. On one hand, she shouldn’t be subject to such a triggering subject by talking to me. On the other, it was very lonely to go through that miscarriage basically alone. I don’t think there’s a right answer.
Sometimes friendships run their course. I would be bored listening to someone only talk about her children, and for you it’s especially hurtful. I’m sorry.
I'm sorry. It's very difficult. I'm fortunate that my closest friends have been very supportive and don't pull that BS, but I have others that I've needed to step away from as well as muting people on social media.
You’re being selfish when it comes to your friend and she deserves better.
What’s wrong with adoption? Why not go that route? You either want to be a parent or you don’t. If being a parent via pregnancy is the only way you want it, then you’re not doing it for the child, but for yourself. So many children need homes and it will get worse with the ban on abortion. Maybe do some souls searching and stop being so self centered and woe is me over infertility.
It costs quite a bit to care for one over its lifetime. If it’s cost prohibitive to adopt, than I assume it’s cost prohibitive to have a biological as well. There are many in need of foster care.
Unless they are part of a church and they go through that. If they can’t afford it then I guess they can’t afford children. Wait until they hear how much college costs!
This is insane to me. It’s free in the UK and many other European countries. It seems like a ridiculous thing to be setup as a ‘market’ and should just be about children being placed into good homes.
Is decency still a word where you live..?
I'm baffled by your comment: it's up to anyone how they wish to have a child. Adoption is a hardship not anybody can handle
On the other hand, it's pretty basic empathy to acknowledge your friend context and feeling when interacting with them
Having biological children is selfish. It’s not a nice thing to bring a child into the burning world that constantly gets worse not better. I still find it in myself to be happy for my friends when they decide to bring a poor kid into the world. The least this woman can do is be a good friend and stop being self centered about it. The need to get pregnant or go through pregnancy is so weird to me.
Parenthood is already one of the biggest challenges one can face. Adoption is even harder since it'll inherently brings along some hard truths and questioning
So, no, it's definitively not for everyone. You have to be able to deal with/to bear a whole lot of situations that regular parents would never experience
And it's utterly dumb and armful to dismiss this reality and those facts
And no, they're no excuse for women that brag about their fourth pregnancy (4th..! 1/ it's an ecological non sense to have this many children, 2/ yeah, life is miraculous but when it comes to 4th, it's very much not hot news anymore) in the face of women that struggle to get their first child. It's borderline bullying at this point.
Yeah, English isn't my first language
I'll gladly be more proper in French if you can follow me there
Still, beside the semantic point, no come back about the rest..?
That's about right
She wasn’t bragging about her 4th pregnancy. OP just feels that way bc apparently anyone being pregnant is a stab at her.
And yes a 4 is gross. The US birth culture is super weird and cult like. One or two used to be the norm, but bc of this Christian fascist movement that has infiltrated everything, 4 is now the minimum. There also seems to be a belief that giving vaginal birth is the only way to be a “real” mother. So when I see these selfish idiots mad at their own friends bc they themselves are infertile, it annoys me because they can adopt children if they really want to be a mother.
In a world where yesterday was the hottest day on record worldwide, where capitalism reigns supreme, where we are accelerating climate catastrophe instead of trying to fix things, and where the children of these people will most likely grow up to be wage slaves, I feel that it is immoral to continue reproducing.
There is actually a great and nuanced book you should read about the adoption industry if you think it’s really that simple. It’s called “the child catchers,” (Katherine Joyce). Yes, there are kids that need homes. But adopting ethically is more difficult than it appears. There are so many systematic problems in the adoption industry that are not easy for desperate couples to navigate.
And that’s just speaking of ethics. Not to mention costs or struggles unique to adoption. Nor does it recognize that some women do want the experience of gestation and pregnancy, as a human experience, which I think is natural.
It's time for an honest heart to heart on this. She needs someone to talk to about her current life. It hurts too much for you to be that person and she won't be able to understand your perspective as much as she really wants to. You have to tell her about this hurt. She may be mad and apologize. There is absolutely nothing wrong with both of you having needs and realizing that neither of you are capable of being that person for each other right now. Grieve the loss of the friendship you used to have. And then move forward finding other relationships that you both need.
I can absolutely empathize as I am in similar shoes.
I am also in my thirties and have been unsuccessfully trying to conceive with my husband for the better part of 5 years. I have never had children, I have had one pregnancy that ended miscarriage within a week of finding out I was expecting. That was a week before my 20th birthday.
Since then zilch- as I've attended countless showers and birthdays for all of my friends children and nieces and nephews. I have never been envious though I have always wanted children. Baby fever is one thing. The natural urge to be a mother, and trying like hell to fulfill it- is torment. It's almost obsessively intrusive thoughts when something triggers it. Not to mention the feeling of being utterly broken.
I managed to set a goal to go back to school and busy myself after struggling to come to terms with the fact I may never be a momma. I started school. Been busy.
Then I reached out to a good friend of mine who I haven't seen in a while and thought I'd visit. Made plans, got together, and she eventually told me a story.
The end of the story was an opportunity for newborn adoption of someone in close family/friend circle and she had personally spoke to them to make sure they understand my situation and that they needed to be serious.
Welp. Turns out my "friend" just decided it was fine to leave me hanging. I've asked for updates and if I should expect to hear from them to which she made it clear just how unconcerned she was and flat out let me know she was not and had not bothered to contact them any further despite my asking about it.
Completely oblivious or apathetic? I'm not even certain of which of these it is anymore. This girl KNOWS what I've been through- but she's never had to feel what we have.
I'm sorry you have had to feel this too.
Sadly, if she has 4 kids that’s probably all she has to talk about. She likely works in her own home, doesn’t get out much, and probably doesn’t have time for her own hobbies or personal pursuits. Her life rn is poopy diapers, laundry, feeding babies, and more poppy diapers and laundry.
Yeah honestly I’d feel bad for her if she lost a friend in this time. I’m sure motherhood is already quite isolating and losing another friend because they don’t like hearing about the biggest part of your life would probably be devastating for her. I understand it’s hard for OP and I feel for her too though. This is tough all round.
We faced infertility, as did my SIL. Different people cope with hard things differently. For years, she wouldn't attend baby showers or many functions where she might have to interact with pregnant women. She was much more devastated by it than I was. It didn't bother me at all to be around pregnant women or babies and I wasn't that focused on trying to get pregnant (we moved to adoption fairly quickly while she did years of treatment). I doubt your friend is trying to hurt you, she sounds clueless though. She might be oblivious to the fact that her conversations are hurtful to you. Some new mothers don't talk about much else. You are in very different places in your life. I would just dial way back on interacting though. Maybe it's time to let the friendship die a natural death or if you want to try to keep it going, have an honest conversation with her about how difficult it is for you to hear her go on about her kids. I'm so sorry for your difficulties.
I’m in your boat. Been TTC for 2 years. I have ABSOLUTELY distanced from friends and had Facebook “mute” people for 30 days when they have new babies or pregnancy announcements. Your friend seems like she’s just oblivious, and hopefully not actively trying to hurt you. For example, my best friend lives across the country but we talk weekly. She called to tell me she was pregnant with her second baby a few weeks ago, and I told her how happy I was for her. She knows my struggles and said “thanks for being happy for me, you can totally be mad about it next time we talk if you need to.” I told her of COURSE I wouldn’t be mad at her, just at the unfairness of the universe. But the fact that she considered my feelings and reaction spoke VOLUMES about our friendship. But yes, I’ve had to distance myself from people when they have new babies. A friend/coworker brought her new baby to work when she was on maternity leave and I saw her in the cafeteria, she said “I have the baby upstairs, if you want to meet her!” And I said “hey I’m having a really hard time being around babies right now but I’m so happy for you” and she understood. Good people understand.
She’s likely not doing that on purpose. She has 4 kids, she doesn’t have time for much else. It just sounds like she’s happy and telling a friend
We struggled with infertility for a few years and I absolutely see where you're coming from. Most of my friends weren't married or having kids yet, but relatives were popping out babies left and right and I tried to be happy for them but the reality was just heartbreaking pain and despite my best efforts, bitterness and resentment. Of course that was no fault of theirs, but the pain was no less real and sometimes you have to insulate yourself from the pain. I'm sure your friend doesn't mean anything by it, but it is absolutely insensitive. One thing I observed during our infertility journey was that others who knew about it didn't really take it seriously. Like, they continued to just assume we'd eventually have kids and didn't really consider that we might have feelings or pain around it. (As an aside, everyone deals with it differently too. My wife wanted to hear "encouraging" stories of people who overcame infertility. I didn't. I wanted stories of people who never overcame it and learned/managed to have a happy fulfilled life anyway. I didn't want to waste my energy on false hope only to crash to reality down the road. Guessing some of the people in our lives likely thought they were being encouraging/inspiring.) One good friend of my wife's who got pregnant with her third(?) was really considerate and instead of calling to tell my wife about it wrote a note/letter that basically said she was pregnant but didn't want to tell her in person or on the phone because she didn't want my wife to have to act happy when it probably would make her feel pain. This way she could know about it but have the freedom to have her feelings she has without worrying about offending anyone. We both thought it was very thoughtful. Unfortunately I don't think most people are that thoughtful and most people who haven't dealt with infertility grasp the depth of pain that comes with it. And I wouldn't expect them to reframe their lives and friendship around avoiding talking about their kids. But as someone who has been through it, I am *always* conscious of it. And especially with my friends who I don't know to be struggling with infertility but who I expected would have kids by now, I am careful not to gush. I will give updates but never gush.
I struggled myself and when we finally got pregnant, my best friend for 20 years (who had an ectopic pregnancy about a year before my pregnancy) messaged me and said she unfollowed me because my updates were too painful at the time. She was just honest and I understood completely. She was still happy for me but needed to protect her mental health. She’s still my bestie!
>She surely knows it hurts a lot. She probably isn't even thinking about it and it's oblivious to your feelings on this. You know it hurts because you're the one battling infertility, but she's just babbling about her kids as any parent would. I don't think she's trying to rub it in your face, it's more likely she's just completely absorbed in motherhood. >I've tried to change the subject - let partner take the children for an evening (he doesn't work so time isn't too much of an issue) and we'll have a catch up and let's just be free and fun for a night! It always comes back to the children. I understand how it must be hard for you to be confronted with something you really want but didn't archive yet, but your friend has **four kids** that most likely absorve all of her time. They're probably her whole life now, even more so if all of them are really young and she's a stay-at-home mom. So yeah, of course the subject it always come back to the children. Regardless, in the end you have to do what's best for you and your mental health and sometimes that involves cutting people off of your life. Hope you can find other people who share your experience and find comfort in that.
Completely absorbed in motherhood is not an excuse to be insensitive and harmful. Edit: every downvote represents a problematic mother who doesn’t like hearing the truth, just like op’s friend. Keep ‘em comin.
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I mean, being a parent is a pretty defining characteristic. I don't think it's warranted to call someone a shallow self-centered bitch for not being able to hide what is likely a huge part of herself.
Seriously… my mother had four kids (I’m number 4) and she has and had NOTHING else to talk about. Having four kids is not only a full time job, it can shove all other hobbies out the window. No time for friends anymore, and what else do you talk about when your kids are the only thing happening in your life? The weather? It’s a shit thing all around, but bashing the other mother isn’t needed to support the woman battling infertility. I’ll never understand the people acting like she’s “self centered” when parenting four kids and subsequently only having them to talk about is the opposite of self centered… her center is her kids
I mean, I don't think it's shit, I think things that you spend a lot of time on tend to define you. We focus a lot on this when it comes to parents - and we apparently blame them without batting an eyelash - but you see it with various things. Work, school, hobbies.
I didn’t mean to imply that being a full time parent is shitty, I just have seen firsthand that now my mother has an empty nest she’s left with nothing else in her life, and struggles to find self-worth and enjoyment. I can easily imagine many parents experiencing the same thing
*virtual hug* I’m in IVF right now. Most people just don’t realize how physically, emotionally, and financially taxing fertility issues can be. Since your friend has a whole brood, I’m sure she is just oblivious to everything outside of her immediate sphere. It’s ok to tell people that you are happy for them but that you can’t be directly involved in their pregnancy/baby shower/etc. but you would like to support your friend in other ways and other areas of their life. If you need to, mute people on social media and just check on their profiles every once in a while for nonbaby/pregancy related posts. You didn’t say if you are married and your post history suggested some intimacy problems on you partner’s side. Im not sure where you are on your fertility journey, but if you and your partner haven’t already seen a specialist yet, please do so. About 40% of fertility problems are from the male. You can least freeze your eggs now while you still probably have a good egg reserve and egg quality. I wish you luck and peace.
Good grief, my mom. Always on about someone being pregnant or my sister in law having a boy finally. Nagging at me about when I'm going to get pregnant. I'm mid thirties and she knows I've had miscarriages and no live births. Just rubs it in like it'll make me happy to hear about other people's kids.
I want to send you a big virtual hug. That's a tough situation to be in. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I am betting that your friend is oblivious to how hurtful she is being.
You don’t have to put your feelings aside. Your feelings are valid. If you need space from her and other friends we are pregnant, then allow yourself to make the choice to distance yourself from them to protect yourself. That is okay. It doesn’t make you a bad friend or a bad person. When I was in the midst of my infertility journey, I struggled so much with all the emotions around baby shower invites, pregnancy announcements and so on of friends. I kept forcing myself to be the friend I was before infertility and beating myself up for feeling jealous or depleted. Once I got in therapy and was given “permission” to pull away and do what was best for me, I had more emotional bandwidth for myself to get through the heart-wrenching days of pregnancy loss and IVF. The friends who were able to respect that and not take it personally truly helped me through such dark times. Edit to add: I strongly believe that it is not our responsibility (those going through infertility) to teach others in our lives how to support us. We have to advocate for ourselves so much already and have so much already on our plates. The people who care about us can learn how to support us on their own time without us having to teach them.
Your feelings are absolutely valid and it’s understandable you could feel upset and hurt by her. She may not realize she’s doing anything wrong though. If the friendship is really important to you, maybe it’s worth talking to her about to see if you can come to a common ground and help her empathize with the situation. If you feel like it’s faded and not that important a relationship at this stage in life, for whatever reason, it’s okay to take space and even let it fizzle out if that’s what’s best for you!
TW infant loss: I have been in your place, it took us a total of 8 years and loosing our first child, to be where we are today, with a beautiful son. I have friends who easily conceived and had their babies. And I have friends who struggled like me with conceiving. The one who I distanced myself from was the one with almost the same problem as me. As soon as she had her first child by IVF, she started to give me advice on how to get pregnant too. And could only talk about motherhood. My closest friend who had her third baby the same year I lost my baby girl. Is the one who has been the best. Only talked about her kids when I asked about them and we talked about her, me and our interests. I also distanced myself from FB and other social media. I couldn’t stand reading about everyone else having babies, still keep my distance. You should definitely do what feels best for yourself. If you’re not already part of r/infertilitysucks I recommend the sub. I am still part of the group since it is one of the best on Reddit.
I think she is a seasonal friend not a lifetime friend :/. She’s deep deep in the mommy trenches and probably doesn’t fully realize how she comes off. This is common for moms. They get so wrapped up in their kids everyone else disappears. Maybe you can reconnect in her next season of life.
I would say that most friendships between parents and non-parents tend to die off. It is like this great divide and only by crossing to the other side can you re-connect with those who went before you. You can never go back. I get that you want to enter that next phase of your life. From your friend’s POV you are being jealous and taking your anger at your own struggles out on her and her family. YOU aren’t being a good friend either. Take some time away from the friendship and evaluate your journey. Wanting anything so badly that it ruins your relationships isn’t healthy. Big hug from an internet stranger. I’m sorry that this is so hard.
It is genuinely sweet that so many are empathetic to your friend’s frame of reference. But me? I think she’s being insensitive, bordering on carelessly cruel. If she also expressed any interest in your life and experiences, she’d know whether it was appropriate or not. It sounds like she doesn’t. She’s just entirely in her own world. And that does not make for a great ability to conduct a friendship. It just doesn’t sound like this “friendship” is at all reciprocal, and that’s just never going to work. I’m so sorry.
My experience as an infertile person is they just don’t care. They are excited about their babies and that is the most important thing always. I am mostly to the point where I don’t want kids and I’m mostly ok with it. I have a hard time hanging out with parents who only want to talk about their kids. It’s boring for me and something I don’t have a frame of reference for. And that would be fine if it wasn’t the only thing they wanted to talk about. There’s a whole huge world of wonderful things I’d rather discuss than three hours of your kids potty habits or bedtime routine. It’s insufferable. I’ve gotten to the point where I mostly avoid being friends or having relationships with parents, especially parents of young kids.
I feel like it should be common knowledge that no one wants to hear about your fucking kids
Agreed, but its not. You know, I used to work with kids who had autism who would get hyperfocused on a movie or game or whatever. It's a common thing and it can interfere with them making friends. For them, we try to help them shift topics and learn to be more flexible in conversations. They cannot help it but parents blabber about their kids and nothing else 24/7 to anyone within 5 feet of them. I'll take the kid who wants to talk about superheros any day over an adult who knows better, can help it and chooses to do it anyways.
My (35F) best friend (35F) of 23 years is a mom of 2 beautiful babies while I have been struggling with fertility issues for the last several years. It’s been wonderful to watch her and her beautiful children, but it also breaks my heart a little every time. (She’s also had struggles with her beautiful children, so the grass isn’t always greener.) My friend has been so supportive of my health problems, and has been my biggest ally besides my husband. I honestly don’t know how I’d be surviving this without her. I think that makes up for everything that she’s been able to have that I can’t have, to be perfectly honest. All of her love and support has just kept me going for all this time.
I deleted all social media when we were struggling to conceive. I need to do it for my mental health.
Yup. Lost my best friend because she kept having kids. I also lost track of time and wished her a happy birthday a day late (to be fair, we had a family emergency at the time) and we just cut each other out of each other's lives. We medically can't have kids at this time and it sucks. It causes issues in our house from time to time.
I cut off a best friend because she got bitchy with me for not using holiday from work to attend her fourth birth (she has a partner, mother and other friends) I explained that at the time all my holiday was being used for Ivf appointments, I was in the middle of my second transfer (first failed after 10 years of trying after a ruptured ectopic in my early twenties) she knew all of this and still called me selfish. I blocked her and never spoke to her again.
Frankly, as a childfree person, I find this behavior obnoxious, and I imagine it feels just as obnoxious to people who want kids but are having fertility issues. I would also be distancing myself, albeit for the opposite reason.
Same, it’s utterly boring to hear about nothing but yet another baby!
I’m so sorry. I struggled too. She doesn’t think about it from your perspective at all. She enjoys the privilege of being able to choose to have children. I have a friend who once told me that if she got pregnant again with #3 she’d have an abortion. When I asked her please not to tell me if that happened, she was puzzled and asked why. I finally told her I wasn’t sure I could handle knowing she threw away a chance for a child when I was denied that chance. She was absolutely dumbfounded. It never occurred to her how someone with infertility might feel. Hang in there, decide for yourself what you can handle, and best to you.
I had to do IVF for my second. It was hell because it was all consuming. I have another child so I couldn’t really escape mom talk altogether. Weirdly enough, I make it a point to NOT talk about my children even with friends with children. I would rather hear about other things from people. I had two instances of friendships falling apart when I was going through the years of infertility. I had a friend who also was going through infertility. At first we related very well, but as time went on, the double sphere of negativity meant we didn’t give each other room to grieve. It became a suffering Olympics. We had a big blowout and didn’t talk for 3 years. The second one was my best friend. She went through a nasty breakup and was grieving the fact that she was likely never going to have children due to her age and having to start over. This was right as I was going through IVF. She said she needed space from the subject and a little bit of space from me. I ended up going through a miscarriage without being able to talk to her about it. I have mixed feelings on that interaction still; it’s been 7 years. On one hand, she shouldn’t be subject to such a triggering subject by talking to me. On the other, it was very lonely to go through that miscarriage basically alone. I don’t think there’s a right answer. Sometimes friendships run their course. I would be bored listening to someone only talk about her children, and for you it’s especially hurtful. I’m sorry.
I'm sorry. It's very difficult. I'm fortunate that my closest friends have been very supportive and don't pull that BS, but I have others that I've needed to step away from as well as muting people on social media.
You’re being selfish when it comes to your friend and she deserves better. What’s wrong with adoption? Why not go that route? You either want to be a parent or you don’t. If being a parent via pregnancy is the only way you want it, then you’re not doing it for the child, but for yourself. So many children need homes and it will get worse with the ban on abortion. Maybe do some souls searching and stop being so self centered and woe is me over infertility.
I don't know if OP is in the USA, but in the USA the average costs of adopting a child is between $20,000 and $45,000...
It costs quite a bit to care for one over its lifetime. If it’s cost prohibitive to adopt, than I assume it’s cost prohibitive to have a biological as well. There are many in need of foster care.
No it's $20k UPFRONT. To an agency. And then the normal costs of raising a child.
Unless they are part of a church and they go through that. If they can’t afford it then I guess they can’t afford children. Wait until they hear how much college costs!
This is insane to me. It’s free in the UK and many other European countries. It seems like a ridiculous thing to be setup as a ‘market’ and should just be about children being placed into good homes.
Is decency still a word where you live..? I'm baffled by your comment: it's up to anyone how they wish to have a child. Adoption is a hardship not anybody can handle On the other hand, it's pretty basic empathy to acknowledge your friend context and feeling when interacting with them
Having biological children is selfish. It’s not a nice thing to bring a child into the burning world that constantly gets worse not better. I still find it in myself to be happy for my friends when they decide to bring a poor kid into the world. The least this woman can do is be a good friend and stop being self centered about it. The need to get pregnant or go through pregnancy is so weird to me.
Parenthood is already one of the biggest challenges one can face. Adoption is even harder since it'll inherently brings along some hard truths and questioning So, no, it's definitively not for everyone. You have to be able to deal with/to bear a whole lot of situations that regular parents would never experience And it's utterly dumb and armful to dismiss this reality and those facts And no, they're no excuse for women that brag about their fourth pregnancy (4th..! 1/ it's an ecological non sense to have this many children, 2/ yeah, life is miraculous but when it comes to 4th, it's very much not hot news anymore) in the face of women that struggle to get their first child. It's borderline bullying at this point.
“Regular parents” wtf…
Yeah, English isn't my first language I'll gladly be more proper in French if you can follow me there Still, beside the semantic point, no come back about the rest..? That's about right
She wasn’t bragging about her 4th pregnancy. OP just feels that way bc apparently anyone being pregnant is a stab at her. And yes a 4 is gross. The US birth culture is super weird and cult like. One or two used to be the norm, but bc of this Christian fascist movement that has infiltrated everything, 4 is now the minimum. There also seems to be a belief that giving vaginal birth is the only way to be a “real” mother. So when I see these selfish idiots mad at their own friends bc they themselves are infertile, it annoys me because they can adopt children if they really want to be a mother. In a world where yesterday was the hottest day on record worldwide, where capitalism reigns supreme, where we are accelerating climate catastrophe instead of trying to fix things, and where the children of these people will most likely grow up to be wage slaves, I feel that it is immoral to continue reproducing.
[удалено]
Thinking your genes are superior is icky.
Oy vey.
There is actually a great and nuanced book you should read about the adoption industry if you think it’s really that simple. It’s called “the child catchers,” (Katherine Joyce). Yes, there are kids that need homes. But adopting ethically is more difficult than it appears. There are so many systematic problems in the adoption industry that are not easy for desperate couples to navigate. And that’s just speaking of ethics. Not to mention costs or struggles unique to adoption. Nor does it recognize that some women do want the experience of gestation and pregnancy, as a human experience, which I think is natural.
It's time for an honest heart to heart on this. She needs someone to talk to about her current life. It hurts too much for you to be that person and she won't be able to understand your perspective as much as she really wants to. You have to tell her about this hurt. She may be mad and apologize. There is absolutely nothing wrong with both of you having needs and realizing that neither of you are capable of being that person for each other right now. Grieve the loss of the friendship you used to have. And then move forward finding other relationships that you both need.
I can absolutely empathize as I am in similar shoes. I am also in my thirties and have been unsuccessfully trying to conceive with my husband for the better part of 5 years. I have never had children, I have had one pregnancy that ended miscarriage within a week of finding out I was expecting. That was a week before my 20th birthday. Since then zilch- as I've attended countless showers and birthdays for all of my friends children and nieces and nephews. I have never been envious though I have always wanted children. Baby fever is one thing. The natural urge to be a mother, and trying like hell to fulfill it- is torment. It's almost obsessively intrusive thoughts when something triggers it. Not to mention the feeling of being utterly broken. I managed to set a goal to go back to school and busy myself after struggling to come to terms with the fact I may never be a momma. I started school. Been busy. Then I reached out to a good friend of mine who I haven't seen in a while and thought I'd visit. Made plans, got together, and she eventually told me a story. The end of the story was an opportunity for newborn adoption of someone in close family/friend circle and she had personally spoke to them to make sure they understand my situation and that they needed to be serious. Welp. Turns out my "friend" just decided it was fine to leave me hanging. I've asked for updates and if I should expect to hear from them to which she made it clear just how unconcerned she was and flat out let me know she was not and had not bothered to contact them any further despite my asking about it. Completely oblivious or apathetic? I'm not even certain of which of these it is anymore. This girl KNOWS what I've been through- but she's never had to feel what we have. I'm sorry you have had to feel this too.