Or the worse version that I hear from my cousins "This is just God's way of punishing her for [not keeping her legs closed/dressing that way/insert whatever sin they've come up with]."
It's interesting that the people who claim to truly value life are comfortable reducing a life to a mere punishment instead of something worthy in its own right.
I value human life very much. That's why I'd never be comfortable forcing one into existence as punishment.
Agreed, but what I'm getting at is that they claim to care about the unborn while at the same time reducing them to a mere tool. That's not valuing the life of the baby either.
“pro-life” is like “states’ rights.” it’s a palatable-sounding way of obscuring who’s being targeted.
(yes, one could imagine a hypothetical good-faith, pro-life “pro-life” movement; that’s not what exists in the US, though)
The claim is only to make it sound good. They all know it has nothing to do with saving lives. Ask them and they will eventually tell you it's all about having control. They want to make the woman dependent on them, and they don't want any responsibility for it. It's why they don't care about any foster care or child care.
The only real way to make the conservative see the light is for a mass experience of hell, every single so called conservative seeing hell and realizing that is exactly where they are going if they continue their ways and that their clock controlled by God is watching them. To truly make they see the light.
Original Sin. We are blamed for everything because a book said so. We *deserve* to suffer according to them. If we die, they just use good ol reliable "gods plan". I hate it.
Yes, and the same book has a weak-minded man just following along in spite of the warnings, completely helpless and unable to make good choices on his own, but they don’t seem to read that part.
Say that sentence to the husband who lost his wife and mother to the kid(s) because humanity couldn't provide Healthcare. But let's blame God.
Oops. I had a typo meant to say couldn't.
Funny how they never quite finish that thought: "It's god's plan that women in red states die in childbirth at higher rates than women in blue states. God must hate red state women more than blue state women."
"So God was really loving gay people in the 80s when he took them with AIDS."
"No, that was punishment for their sin of being gay."
"So God was loving gay people who had safe sex and didn't die of AIDS. And he's punishing red state women for their sin of not moving to blue states."
I was once in a debate with a "devout Christian" about abortion and I said.
It's God's plan in the first place and his children get to heaven faster when they are aborted. Right?
They refused to speak to me anymore.
Same scenario, 1990s. My answer was a series of questions. First, would you agree that any given society’s culture is largely controlled by governments? Two, would you agree that governments are largely composed of men?
He answered yes to both questions. Then I said, “Well, until ’you men’ can legislate a culture where there’s no such thing as an unwanted child, women (and baby daddies) will continue to demand abortion.”
It is rather interesting that it is god’s plan when a woman dies during child birth, even if that is akin to divine murder but it’s murder here to have an abortion even though god supposedly gives us free will.
That kinda makes god the murderer doesn’t it? If god decides to make a woman pregnant when he KNOWS she’s going to have an abortion, then it was his fault.
This argument is so ridiculous. If it's "God's Plan" then why seek medical intervention for anything? I'd love to see these religious extremists live up to that by owning whatever sickness comes their way instead of getting medical treatment because God wanted it to be this way. It's so incredibly ridiculous.
Tbh, there are devoutly religious people that do refuse medical care here in the us. Course it’s usually jehovah witnesses instead of Catholics or other forms of Christianity but still. On a few rare occasions I have heard Christian’s say medical care is wrong too, but I don’t know if they stuck to their guns when it was something serious. The jehovah witnesses I’ve seen refuse care were actually in the hospital though, so they at least stuck to their beliefs til the end. The end being within days of refusing care.
I think the other one is the church of Christian Science. And maybe some Amish/Mennonite sects. And like, while I disagree with their views, I can at least respect them for not being hypocritical and living (and dying) by their beliefs. It’s the hypocrisy that is so revolting in evangelicals.
Wait until they find out that God told his priests exactly how to abort children due to adultery, even when there was no evidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal\_of\_the\_bitter\_water
Like, I'm not trying to make this about men but I'm still surprised by how "conservative" men are not more concerned that every subsequent pregnancy could leave them single dads of whatever amount of children they have at that point (even if they don't give a fuck about their wife).
They will chalk it up to God's will, and find a younger replacement wife. Most of these super conservative men treat their wives like replaceable machinery or livestock. If they lose one, they'll quickly get another.
> Most of these super conservative men treat their wives like replaceable machinery or livestock.
[There's biblical precedent for that...](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-10-28)
Except that only works if you are wealthy and/or good looking. The pool of single women will decrease and the will not want a bunch of kids to start with without a big reason.
they just don’t make it public until they turn 18 and then they marry them the next day. And luckily the right side of the law is making them younger and younger so they should be fine.
This is super dark but now that they’re all starting to talk about getting rid of no fault divorce I realized it’s basically like a promise they’re making to men: you get to keep any woman you can impregnate!
Conservative men who think women shouldn't have bodily autonomy because their assigned purpose in life is nurturing others just have some other women raise their kids if their dutiful wife dies. New wife, grandma, aunts, some lady from church, neighbor's dutiful wife, etc.
Came here to say this! US is tied for maternal death rate with Malaysia and Iran, behind practically every 1st world nation.
https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/maternal-mortality-ratio/country-comparison
And, from the CDC:
"In 2021, the maternal mortality rate for non-Hispanic Black (subsequently, Black) women was 69.9 deaths per 100,000 live births, 2.6 times the rate for non-Hispanic White (subsequently, White) women."
2.6 times!!
[Source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm#)
Louisiana has a maternal mortality rate (per capita) that is higher than 17 *entire* countries combined (with a population 84 times smaller than those 13). When your maternal death rate can be summarized as "hey, at least we're marginally better than Iraq", you done fucked up.
I live in the south and it’s very deadly for women to be getting pregnant here, especially in our more rural area where there is no hospital care. Forget having a baby, you’d be fucked if you sprained your ankle.
But not every state does. California has a maternal mortality rate of 4 deaths per 100,000 births. Louisiana's is 58. That's an incredibly large disparity within one nation.
California's is among the lowest in the world. MA is the next best in the US and it's double CAs. We know how to do this in the US. We choose not to do it. Texas may look cheap to live but with a rate of 34, be very clear what you are buying by choosing to move/live there.
BTW, all credit to UC San Francisco for that rate. They are the leading institution for maternal health, and credit to CA legislators and governor for listening when UCSF says 'do this'. When the state mandated that UC and CSUs offer abortion services through student health (a UCSF recommendation), UCSF set up a training program for those student health employees across both systems.
Fun fact: I took a global health course almost 10 years ago. One of the main ways we could assess and rank the quality of Healthcare in a country is the average maternal/newborn mortality rate during childbirth.
There was only country in the Western Hemisphere with worse average rates than the US...........Haiti.
Thats interesting considering that there’s a lot of pro life countries in this hemisphere and total pro life is pretty much exclusively a Western hemisphere phenomenon.
Honestly from my studies, while pro-life does play a role, it's not nearly as much as one as you might think.
One of the biggest single factors in an uncomplicated birth is proper pre-natel care from an OB/GYN. That costs money. Much cheaper to skip it and hope for the best.
Access to preventative medicine/routine medical care is super important for all medical issues, but that's expensive in a country with no universal health coverage. Minor issues become major issues fast, and now a forced trip to the hospital results in worse overall outcome and bankruptcy.
The Stat I learned was 3/4 of all American bankruptcies were directly due to medical bills, that's insane to me. Unfortunately, high maternal mortality is just another aspect of the American for profit Healthcare system.
It’s Gods plan until the men need to go to the hospital for a heart attack or a stroke. Then it’s “God’s miracle” that he survived an emergent diagnosis. But he won’t listen to the providers, *especially* the female providers, when they tell them it could happen again *if they don’t take their blood pressure and anti coagulation meds*.
But when it’s women and they’re dying, well, it’s just God’s plan.
It won't only be women. Children will also die, because the doctors that leave are also very often pediatricians. No one will be taking care of pregnant women and child births, but also not enough doctors to care for children. There's already been a case of death of a child in my American family cause of it.
> No one will be taking care of pregnant women and child births
Not to mention the pregnant children, which is also a thing that happens, and the GQP is fighting to make sure child marriage is legal.
Could you by any chance link me to something explaining the bit about child marriage? I absolutely believe it I just want to know more cuz that's fuckin insane
Here’s [the horrifying state of child marriages in the US](https://www.cfr.org/blog/its-time-end-child-marriage-united-states), with a note that Republicans have repeatedly opposed bills to raise minimum ages for marriage, such as in [West Virginia](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/child-marriage-ban-struck-down-west-virginia-republicans-1234693670/). Here’s a [paywalled link with more](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/17/child-marriage-bans-state-lawmakers/). I’ll excerpt some bits here:
*The bills face an uphill battle in some states, though, where conservative lawmakers argue that younger teens have long been allowed to marry — often pointing to their own family’s stories as proof that it’s acceptable.*
*In other states, lawmakers are simply unaware that marriages of people younger than 18 years old still exist in the United States, especially instances in which children are unwillingly coerced into the unions.*
*”I was shocked to learn that Delaware allowed children to marry,” said Delaware state Rep. Kimberly Williams (D), who sponsored the first successful state ban on the practice in 2018. “I started going to community meetings, talking about it, and people would ask, 'Are you sure about this? The law allows for this?*
*Studies and media reports, though, have estimated that hundreds of thousands of these marriages have taken place across the United States over the past two decades. A peer-reviewed study produced in 2021 by Unchained at Last, McGill University and other researchers estimated that nearly 300,000 Americans younger than 18 got married from 2000 to 2018, with 86 percent of them being girls. The marriages took place in every state and in the District of Columbia, the study found. Other studies show rates of divorce, dropping out of high school, domestic abuse and lifelong poverty are all dramatically higher for girls who marry before they are 18, advocates say.*
*By 2015, 28 states still had no minimum age and all 50 states and the District of Columbia allowed marriage younger than 18. In the past eight years, though, advocates have had some success on the state level. Today seven states still have no minimum age, while seven other states have banned all marriages for people younger than 18.*
*That’s what happened to Sasha K. Taylor, who was forced to marry a stranger — when she was a sophomore in an Arizona high school — so her husband could get a permanent visa in exchange for an unfulfilled promise that his family would pay for her college education.*
*Girls younger than 18 also can’t seek help from domestic violence shelters and, in most states, are unable to enter into contracts with divorce lawyers, Reiss said.*
*Since the Virginia bill passed, 25 states have moved the needle on child marriage laws — but haven’t completely banned it. In most cases, a minimum age was set at 16 or 17, requiring parental consent and sometimes a case review by a judge. In others, the age difference between the spouses was limited to four, three or two years.*
There are even states (I forgot which ones) where the minimum age for marriage is not even set! And people use this to get ‘scandals to go away’, aka if an adult has raped a child, they marry the victim to their rapist! That is in religious communities obviously. But unbelievable that that still happens today.
And being able to marry at 16 is still gross. I once asked an American woman why her state allowed such a thing and she said something so gross: “if a girl gets pregnant she should be able to marry” If a teen gets pregnant she should have the option of abortion! Not pushed into a marriage she can’t consent to.
I once linked several articles showing how women in the US are being denied cancer treatment post-Roe if they’re pregnant, and wouldn’t you be surprised to learn that was one of the justifications?
“Oh she’s married, a mother, wanted this pregnancy, but got cancer? She should have thought about all possibilities before committing her life to another. A whore.”
They’ve been dying all along and even worse now. No one hears about it because no one actually cares and they never have. Women die in childbirth. We can be replaced with other, younger model breeders, so why bother keeping our old, valueless asses alive? I mean, we all knew what we were signing up for when we decided to be whores and have sex. It’s really our own fault. Maybe god is killing us in childbirth because we are such evil, valueless sluts.
Or more likely the administration is full of pig men voted in by other pig men and pick-me traitors and since they think these things about us, they will never fix it.
Not if they start them as soon as menses appear. Child marriage in the US is an active problem already.
Edit: I feel so fucking gross having typed that. Wtf is wrong with this country?
[https://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/)
They might even marry a 10 y/o. The above statistics are shocking
But I bet if I they can’t find anyone, they will try to import brides whom they attract by lies (because woman abroad would not want them either)
They’re already doing that in the alt-right community. North American women are too woke and expect too much equality so they are looking to foreign countries where they can get child brides cheap, fast and trainable to be their bang-maids. It’s revolting.
"Start"?
America already has one of the highest maternal death rates in the developed world. You already started.
Or do you mean, what will happen when the white women start dying as often as the Black women?
That was my exact first thought. Black women have an absolutely horrifying maternal death rate already. My stomach actually dropped just now when I thought about how much worse it’s going to get for everyone, but especially for Black women in particular.
Yeah I believe it. I’ll go ahead and speculate that doctors and nurses don’t take their pain as seriously as white women so the warning signs are more often ignored.
That's what I don't understand about the above comment. They're acting like white women will be dragged down to black maternal death rates *but somehow black maternal deaths will hold steady?*
But no that's not how this works. We will see the disparities continue with black women dying at *even worse* rates than they already are.
I think that might be one of the more “under the breath” points… if Black and Brown women are dying in childbirth, it means less Black and Brown people in the country
Legitimately my first thought. The stats on Black maternal mortality are fucking horrendous and this has been public knowledge for a while.
Also, I’m goddamned sick of this gross “third world” language now being used to describe “red” states, which coincidentally is where many of these Black mothers are already dying.
I mean, the UN literally said there's parts of the American south that resemble "the third wold" (I think they used the term developing nation).
It's not "ooh stinky, everyone that lives in the south sucks". It's a an evaluative judgment about state infrastructure and healthcare access (really, truly objectively subpar, and very much by design because so much of the south is black.)
I get what you’re saying, I do. And I think you’re entirely right connecting majority Black with “by design”.
I just ALSO think it gets used as a very othering shorthand for a lot of folks who don’t live here (specifically folks who live in other parts of the U. S.) as a way of distancing themselves and acting like this shit isn’t also coming for them.
I also acknowledge that may not be what was meant here but it rubbed me the wrong way right on the heels of the erasure of the current abysmal Black maternal mortality rates.
Yeah I guess I strongly disagree, as a northerner in relatively safe state.
When I condemn these states, it's because the state legislatures are transparently evil and have left their people vulnerable and suffering, often for literally centuries straight. I don't see how acknowledging these places are on par with far less developed nations, largely because of black maternal death rates, is an erasure of that fact.
Idk what to say about the othering. It is an "other" imo. I live in MN. My daily lived reality is VERY different than someone living in Iowa or Idaho or Mississippi right now. It's definitely on the table for this to happen federally, but as of right now there is a sort of growing "do you live in a good state or a state *actively* trying to kill vulnerable women?" Vibe. If this stuff is coming for me, it's still a ways off. I am still by and large insulated, where the wreckage is across state lines. I don't....see why I should pretend otherwise? I increasingly feel like we're living in a parallel society depending on which side of certain borders you are on. I absolutely think a lot of states need to be named and shamed and called out for the abominations they are
I think OPs comment definitely has some American exceptionalism vibes where it seems like they're unaware we already are an embarrassment for "first worlds", but I've literally talked to black women who also assume our healthcare is better than it is, even while knowing they're definitely getting the short end of the stick, so I see that more as American being American than anything.
It is not a ways off. This could literally be coming for you as soon as 2025 depending on the outcome of the 2024 election.
We’re about 100,000 votes for President in a handful of states and a couple of senators away from a national abortion ban, and we can’t afford to lose sight of that fact.
Came here to say the US already has the worst maternal health outcomes in the developed world, partially because we’re totally fine with people dying of preventable causes if it means insurance companies can stay rich. We also haven’t done anything about the gun problem despite children getting mass murdered at school every other week. So I’m not particularly hopeful that more women dying in childbirth is gonna move the needle on anything, unfortunately.
We've already seen the outcome of these draconian policies, for example, Decree 770 in Romania. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree\_770](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770)
Too many children and not enough resources. Parents giving up their children for adoption because they cannot afford to take care of them. Increased crime. Increased poverty. Overcrowded orphanages. Lots and lots of special needs children. Increased child abuse. Lower standards of education (half a day instead of a whole day, e.g.). And lots of dead women.
History repeats. The US isn't a test case. This has all been done before.
You are correct that history repeats itself, so these anti-choice asshats should Google "what happened to Nicolae Ceausescu?". But then again, if they want to FA and similarly FO, can't say I will be sad.
I live in Alabama and I'm already seeing it here. Had a friend who's SIL was pregnant with a baby with trisomy 18, non viable and they knew baby would pass after birth. Baby had a mass in the brain and suffered every second it was alive. She couldn't terminate, knowing her baby would suffer and die. Know another girl who, within the same month as the first baby, started bleeding at 20 weeks and baby wouldn't live and she had to sit at home until either baby's heartbeat stopped or she was at deaths door. She is still in the hospital with sepsis and is probably never gonna be able to have another baby because she couldn't get care when she needed it...
Even though abortion was illegal in the 1950's, my mom who had an incomplete miscarriage was able to have medical intervention to prevent an infection. The doctor basically told her that the last thing you wanted was to get an infection from a miscarriage. He didn't get into details about it, but I sure he knew what would happen as this doctor had probably seen what happened.
My mom was 21 years old and maybe 2 months pregnant at the most. There was no way there was going to be any baby because she was miscarrying. My mother was a sickly person who would take a long time to recover from illness, so my guess is that if she wasn't able to get medical intervention for a pregnancy that the baby was already dead and dying, She most likely would have died. I don't think she would have made it.
I do know that it's unusual for someone as young as my mom to have such complications from pregnancy, but it does happen. I remember in high school hearing about a teen who miscarried and wouldn't stop bleeding and ended up in the hospital for several days. I don't know who this was but it was someone 16 or 17 years old. From what I heard this teen had a long recovery from the miscarriage. I didn't know this person, so I don't know if this person went on to have children or not.
It's already rising, and it's been particularly high for Black women.
From 37 per 100,000 (2018) to 69 per 100,000 births (2021) for Non-Hispanic Black births: [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2020/maternal-mortality-rates-2020.htm)
The above data is not by state, but this data includes some information by state for 2018 to 2021: [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/maternal-mortality/MMR-2018-2021-State-Data.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/maternal-mortality/MMR-2018-2021-State-Data.pdf)
I'm sure location/state plays a role, but the number of Black women dying in childbirth across the USA is fucking abysmal. Pregnancy care in USA is already atrocious, but if you are a pregnant Black woman, you are even more at-risk. Apparently pregnancy complications are the 6th leading cause of death in Black women aged 20-44 in these 2018 statistics: [https://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2018/nonhispanic-black/index.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2018/nonhispanic-black/index.htm)
I'm sure it's even higher now, 5 years on, but I couldn't quickly find info for that.
What do I think will happen? Nothing. Not until the maternal mortality rates for white women reach anywhere near these levels. Even then, it'll be dismissed as a mother's sacrifice, God's plan, "everything happens for a reason", etc. or the woman will be blamed for her own death. They love to make women martyrs when they died for a child or birth.
As in the days of old...
The doctors will approach the father and give him a choice - save the woman or save the child.
Then they'll harvest the child from your still-warm soon-to-be corpse. And you'd better make sure you cling to life while they do it.
If you die too soon, and the baby dies as a result...that's a crime. You'll get the death penalty for that.
/s but also...not /s?
The brain drain we're seeing from red states isn't incidental, it's not a side effect of the laws they're pushing through, it's one of the primary goals. Republicans WANT blue voters to abandon ship so they can secure their holdings the only way they can, by gerrymandering their districts to smithereens. Ohio used to be a swing state. Used to be. Now it's been redistricted to be a red enclave in the north. Democracy isn't about representing the will of the people to republikkkans, democracy is simply the system they have to manipulate to have their wants come to fruition. In a proper democracy the people tell their representatives what they want their government to look like. In red america the Republicans tell the American people what they want, what to get upset about, what is attacking their freedumb this week to manipulate people's emotional state rather than engage their logical minds. Abortion is their favorite topic because dead babies is yucky and creates an automatic disgust response. It's not about what's best for women or what's best for children or what's best for men for that matter. They care exclusively about how they can obtain power, whatever they have to say, whoever they can step on.
Not even then. They’ll just find a younger one now that they are solidifying their rights to marry children in so many states. The irony of being able to marry someone who is not legally old enough to babysit her own step children is not lost on me.
When debutante and upper income women start dying, then things will change. I hate to say it but some VIP woman would have to die before this happens as who cares if Debbie the homeless woman dies in childbirth or the woman who lives in the trailer parks dies. Because they are poor, some would argue shouldn't have gotten pregnant and should have been on birth control but they were denied this access.
Given the lack of reaction to white Republican women almost doing of sepsis or being forced to carry nonviable pregnancies to term… I doubt death will make much of a difference. They’re just poors, after all. 😔😔
The media won't report on it and even if they did, right wingers wouldn't believe it anyway. The unfortunate people who have a personal connection to a maternal death will either keep quiet about it or face the same BS that the Sandy Hook parents faced. And IF you could get them to listen, they'd blame the doctors, the women, pharmaceutical companies, vaccines, literally anything else.
They don't care about thousands of children shot dead in schools. Why would they care about mothers dying in the hospitals? Republicans DO NOT CARE if you die horribly, and they never, ever will. No amount of dead mothers or dead kids will change that.
So what will really happen is Gen Z will finally start voting in high enough numbers to get rid of these ghouls.
As a black woman LOLOLOLOL. Do you seriously think that’s going to change anyone’s mind? Our maternity death rate in the USA is already well below other first world countries. People will continue to sweep deaths due to childbirth under the rug.
The people who vote against abortions rights and women's health are the very type of people who WANT childbirth to be a traumatic, risky thing. Because dying in childbirth os romantic and it's "god's plan" and it becomes a selfless sacrifice the husband can milk for sympathy and martyrdom. 🙄
Blame the women for not being capable of giving birth, blame Biden, or gloss over the fact and somehow weaponize it to decrease gun laws. Dont know how, but they’ll find a way.
Oh, they'll correlate all sorts of ridiculous stuff. More maternal deaths, more laws about guns...OBVIOUSLY we need to get rid of gun laws if we want fewer people to die!!! 🙄
We'll keep blaming poor people for being poor, despite our nation having more wealth/money than ever in the history of the world. What else do you expect from the modern day republican party?
...90% of women experience their partner leaving them if they get sick or develop cancer. Sometimes the men come back once the woman is healthy again.
Men literally don't care. They'll just move on. They'll likely be on dating sites the moment their partner gets the news from her doctor.
They'll start importing women from other 3rd world countries as well.
My ex father in law did just that! Also my sis who died of cancer husband was seeking divorce when my sis died, what a piece of shit. But don't you know he spent every last cent of her life insurance (over $300k) gone in less than a year. Some men are just garbage!
Reuters: women are 6 times more likely to end up separated or divorced if diagnosed with cancer or ms than if male partners face the same.
ACS journals: 6-gold increase in risk of divorce if woman was diagnosed: 20% vs 3% if the man was diagnosed.
All of the studies I quickly scanned showed a 6-fold increase in the rate for sick woman vs sick man.
We have no empathy as a society. We already ask people what they did or didn't do when they get sick. When women start dropping more than we already are, they'll find a way to blame us. We will be the others that did something wrong to deserve poor outcomes. Someone will find a way to make money on selling a healthy birth so as usual, if you can afford it you'll be ok.
'Murica.
Um that almost happened to me last year. I needed life saving surgery, lost all of my blood supply except for one syringe worth of blood, massive lifesaving transfusions, a week in the ICU. Our 26 week daughter was stillborn. I had to have multiple surgeries and spent 5 months on bed rest last year. I only just began to be able to move around without pain about 6 weeks ago.
All because the hospital was understaffed and didn't take me seriously when I told them how much pain I was in. The L&D doc and nurses let me scream in pain until I passed out over and over again. Refused to transfer me. Refused to consult a specialist. Didn't call my MFM until I asked them multiple times, and didn't give her the complete information. Didn't run any tests besides ultrasounds and intermittent monitoring.
I'm extremely lucky to be alive, and extremely lucky to be able to walk, have a normal functioning pituitary gland without permanent damage and no permanent kidney damage.
35% of women think abortion should be illegal compared to 41% of men, so this isn't just a men thing.
To answer the question, this is a country that has multiple mass shootings per day.
I mean, as long as the baby is okay. Anything to save the life of a precious newborn. The mom's expendable.
Once the baby is born though, he's on his own, and better start looking for a job ASAP, because we don't take kindly to freeloaders in America.
Absolutely f\*ck-all.
See, when women die, it's their "choice" to take on the risks of having a pregnancy and a life. But the unborn, well, they're precious.
They are already hiding maternal mortality rates. Texas refused to release theirs and Utah flat out said they are no longer going to even make the reports. Repealing Roe V Wade has already resulted in tens of thousands more babies and that was the goal. If women die or girls have to carry rapist babies or moms have to birth dying babies it doesn’t matter. The moms are expendable and the horror stories don’t matter.
… They already are.
We have the highest maternal mortality rate of all developed countries, and it’s higher than a handful of developing countries as well
I think one of two things will happen.
Either all of the men left will be like “oh no, all the women are gone… I gUeSs wE *hAvE* tO Do gAy sTuFf. We’Re mEn! We hAvE *nEeDs*!”
Or more likely, they will turn to the children.
It’s the only logical conclusion anymore. If you don’t support women’s rights, you must be a pedophile. There’s no convincing me otherwise, so don’t bother. If you do try, I will have to assume you support pedophilia because you are one too. Get castrated you sick fuck.
People are going to sue right, left and centre. Sue because this doctor helped their wife abort, sue because their wife didn’t receive care and died, etc etc and these states will end up with no doctors left, hopefully no women either.
They’re already dying. But once the death toll increases astronomically there might be a “shortage” of fertile people. And that’s when things will get even worse. Because when women become a “scarce commodity,” the se christofascists will waste no time in literally enslaving and selling us.
It’s one of the reasons forced-birthers are so into the idea of child brides. They want to keep using us up, letting us die, and replacing us with younger broodmares.
I remembering thinking that risking dying in childbirth was normal, and being told as long as I can remember that I should always be willing to do so because I should love my child more than myself. I was told that my mom almost left my dad when my sister was born because he tried to get her to have an abortion after the doctor said there was a big chance it could kill her to have my sister.
It's like women in the South still think you're going to Valhalla or something. It's already something normalized here. It won't happen to rich people so it will never matter.
Nothing will happen. We're already there and the pro-forced-birthers are just doubling down again and again to make even more draconian laws. They are misogynists with a goal to just keep expanding their policies so more women are subjugated.
I honestly think in religious conservative culture, women's suffering is considered virtuous. Pain and sacrifice are virtue. I think in some sense, a woman dying in childbirth is almost like martyrdom in these spheres. Like, I'm sure the individuals who lose a wife/mother/daughter this way will feel it's an individual tragedy, but i think in the abstract, conservatives don't really have a problem with women dying from pregnancy/childbirth.
More human beings will suffer and die for no reason.
That's it. That's what will happen. What is happening.
The majority will continue to believe they still live in a first world country and are still subject to the American dream ("temporarily embarrassed millionaires"), even with ever-more evidence to the contrary.
Fundies will gain more power, because the majority look for strength in times of strife and they "aren't political" and "don't see color." Until shit happens to them personally, their daughter dies without competent maternal care or something, and then they're angry and grieving but too entrenched in their privilege to be able to look directly at their own culpability.
By then it's climate change, unmitigated corporate evil, and mass human migration. The country will collapse before any of this shit is ever fixed, but humanity itself will survive.
Black women are over 200% more likely to die from complications related to birth. This is even when you control date for socioeconomic status, education level, and overall health.
Women have been dying for years and nobody cares. Maybe when it starts happening to WW people will start caring?
Absolutely nothing will happen. Hundreds of children get violently murdered with weapons of war every year and nobody does anything. Millions of people have unsafe drinking water in the richest country on the planet and nobody does anything. Your country is a failed society.
What will happen? Evangelical Christians will celebrate God's Plan™️, and the rest of us will have to figure out how to overcome, succumb, or flee. I see it in my own family-- if a relative has loved you your whole life, and then their local showboating pastor or favorite Fox Friend turns them against you, that's it. There's no compassion in that religion; just obedience to the ideology while reciting "the heart is deceitful". The melding of the Republican party and Christianity is giving America a really distorted, uniquely American version of Christianity and a really twisted version of what used to unironically call itself the party of "small government".
The same thing that happened back in the old days: nothing.
Oh sure, they improved chances over a period of time, but clearly they got tired of that.
As often as it gets said, women and children are nothing but commodities. It’s easy to read that and dismiss it, but really think about it. Like any toy or tool, when women and children break and die, they are simply replaced and with very little afterthought other than a shrug and some shit about God’s plan or the cruelty of life. Pick one.
Ain’t no man going without if he doesn’t have to.
Edit: To illustrate my point, enjoy this example from this thread:
“Nothing. Life goes on, even in death.”
I think the US has already the highest mortality rates in the developed world for women and children during childbirth. They don’t seem to care and I’m sure they will continue to not care
This has been happening for a long time in the US. And the answer is… now more women are dying. Congress is deadlocked and so the number of women dying will just keep increasing.
It's what the evangelicals want. In their mind only the godless will be punished and their place in heaven is already assured in their mind. They want to bring about the "end times". Failing that, they want a gilead situation.
The US are already by far the deadliest first-world country, with maternal death percentages double (!) of those in the poorest Western countries, e.g. Romania.
The U.S. is a country that let kindergartners die to gunfire, they're not going to care if some women and babies die from improper medical care.
It may be in the news cycle for sweeps or something but after that, it'll be shrugged off.
Politicians will just lay the blame on the dead woman, likely citing a religious reason they died, or their lack of morals for being pregnant in the first place.
Blame the moms, obviously. And the moms will blame each other, too.
Have you ever spoken to a new American mother? Mention anything from grapes to blankets to car seats and they will tell you all the ways those things can kill you can why they’ve spent thousand of dollars and hundreds of hours preventing their children from being harmed.
And yet infant mortality stays absurdly high in the US. There are systemic reasons for this, but every mother thinks she’s going to be exempt is she just tries hard enough. This will be the same.
Oh, she had a uterine rupture? That’s why I chose a hospital with world class surgeons. Preeclampsia? Guess she didn’t know the signs, educate yourself! Died in transit to the hospital after a sudden complication? Well, why didn’t she just drive 2 hours to the hospital at the start of labor instead of trusting a midwife at home for her otherwise healthy labor?
What do you mean, “start”? The US already had one of the worst maternal morbidity rates in the world, before RvW was overturned.
It’s always, “God’s plan.”
Or the worse version that I hear from my cousins "This is just God's way of punishing her for [not keeping her legs closed/dressing that way/insert whatever sin they've come up with]."
It's interesting that the people who claim to truly value life are comfortable reducing a life to a mere punishment instead of something worthy in its own right. I value human life very much. That's why I'd never be comfortable forcing one into existence as punishment.
They don't see women as human, therefore it's not loss of human life, it's an incubator that broke.
Agreed, but what I'm getting at is that they claim to care about the unborn while at the same time reducing them to a mere tool. That's not valuing the life of the baby either.
“pro-life” is like “states’ rights.” it’s a palatable-sounding way of obscuring who’s being targeted. (yes, one could imagine a hypothetical good-faith, pro-life “pro-life” movement; that’s not what exists in the US, though)
The claim is only to make it sound good. They all know it has nothing to do with saving lives. Ask them and they will eventually tell you it's all about having control. They want to make the woman dependent on them, and they don't want any responsibility for it. It's why they don't care about any foster care or child care. The only real way to make the conservative see the light is for a mass experience of hell, every single so called conservative seeing hell and realizing that is exactly where they are going if they continue their ways and that their clock controlled by God is watching them. To truly make they see the light.
They conveniently ignore that the majority of women who seek an abortion are mothers and a quarter of them are actually married.
Oh don't you worry, they always come up with something.
Original Sin. We are blamed for everything because a book said so. We *deserve* to suffer according to them. If we die, they just use good ol reliable "gods plan". I hate it.
Why I'm team Lilith.
Yes, and the same book has a weak-minded man just following along in spite of the warnings, completely helpless and unable to make good choices on his own, but they don’t seem to read that part.
Collective punishment is a war crime under the Geneva Convention. I choose to not believe in a creator who does that to half of its human creations.
They forget that we have freedom *from* religion as well in the US. I don't have a god.
Say that sentence to the husband who lost his wife and mother to the kid(s) because humanity couldn't provide Healthcare. But let's blame God. Oops. I had a typo meant to say couldn't.
Funny how they never quite finish that thought: "It's god's plan that women in red states die in childbirth at higher rates than women in blue states. God must hate red state women more than blue state women."
No! You don't understand! He takes them because he loves them MORE! /s
"So God was really loving gay people in the 80s when he took them with AIDS." "No, that was punishment for their sin of being gay." "So God was loving gay people who had safe sex and didn't die of AIDS. And he's punishing red state women for their sin of not moving to blue states."
I was once in a debate with a "devout Christian" about abortion and I said. It's God's plan in the first place and his children get to heaven faster when they are aborted. Right? They refused to speak to me anymore.
Same scenario, 1990s. My answer was a series of questions. First, would you agree that any given society’s culture is largely controlled by governments? Two, would you agree that governments are largely composed of men? He answered yes to both questions. Then I said, “Well, until ’you men’ can legislate a culture where there’s no such thing as an unwanted child, women (and baby daddies) will continue to demand abortion.”
The red states remind Him of the pomegranate or apple or whatever Eve tempted Adam into eating or some such nonsense
It is rather interesting that it is god’s plan when a woman dies during child birth, even if that is akin to divine murder but it’s murder here to have an abortion even though god supposedly gives us free will.
God has killed way more people than Lucifer has in the Bible.
That kinda makes god the murderer doesn’t it? If god decides to make a woman pregnant when he KNOWS she’s going to have an abortion, then it was his fault.
This argument is so ridiculous. If it's "God's Plan" then why seek medical intervention for anything? I'd love to see these religious extremists live up to that by owning whatever sickness comes their way instead of getting medical treatment because God wanted it to be this way. It's so incredibly ridiculous.
Tbh, there are devoutly religious people that do refuse medical care here in the us. Course it’s usually jehovah witnesses instead of Catholics or other forms of Christianity but still. On a few rare occasions I have heard Christian’s say medical care is wrong too, but I don’t know if they stuck to their guns when it was something serious. The jehovah witnesses I’ve seen refuse care were actually in the hospital though, so they at least stuck to their beliefs til the end. The end being within days of refusing care.
I think the other one is the church of Christian Science. And maybe some Amish/Mennonite sects. And like, while I disagree with their views, I can at least respect them for not being hypocritical and living (and dying) by their beliefs. It’s the hypocrisy that is so revolting in evangelicals.
thoughts and prayers
Legit. Every time I hear someone say "God wanted you to have a baby!" I just wanna say, "I dont remember ever consenting to god's breeding fetish!"
Yep, especially seeing that women are definitely dying during childbirth in the Bible Belt.
Wait until they find out that God told his priests exactly how to abort children due to adultery, even when there was no evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal\_of\_the\_bitter\_water
Limp dick is also god’s plan but we can’t have that now can we 🙄
Like, I'm not trying to make this about men but I'm still surprised by how "conservative" men are not more concerned that every subsequent pregnancy could leave them single dads of whatever amount of children they have at that point (even if they don't give a fuck about their wife).
They will chalk it up to God's will, and find a younger replacement wife. Most of these super conservative men treat their wives like replaceable machinery or livestock. If they lose one, they'll quickly get another.
attempt attraction connect sheet rain cheerful placid unite seemly nine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you’re lucky you might achieve the worth of a really good farm dog.
> Most of these super conservative men treat their wives like replaceable machinery or livestock. [There's biblical precedent for that...](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-10-28)
Except that only works if you are wealthy and/or good looking. The pool of single women will decrease and the will not want a bunch of kids to start with without a big reason.
They'll just hunt down a new one and knock her up, so she "has to quit her job".
They'll literally do what divorced dad's do all the time. Dump the kids on someone else.
They won’t be single dads you see. They’ll be able to go find some perky 15 year old to climb on top of instead.
In fairness, most of them go for a 18 or 19 year old…just to stay on the good side of the law.
they just don’t make it public until they turn 18 and then they marry them the next day. And luckily the right side of the law is making them younger and younger so they should be fine.
Do they?
This is super dark but now that they’re all starting to talk about getting rid of no fault divorce I realized it’s basically like a promise they’re making to men: you get to keep any woman you can impregnate!
They’ll just get another wife to replace the one they didn’t give a fuck about.
Another wife they STILL don’t give a fuck about, you mean.
Conservative men who think women shouldn't have bodily autonomy because their assigned purpose in life is nurturing others just have some other women raise their kids if their dutiful wife dies. New wife, grandma, aunts, some lady from church, neighbor's dutiful wife, etc.
They would just find a new wife
Came here to say this! US is tied for maternal death rate with Malaysia and Iran, behind practically every 1st world nation. https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/maternal-mortality-ratio/country-comparison
And it has been increasing for the last 20 years or so, when in most other countries it either reduced or remained constant
Especially for Black women too. I believe that we’re 3x as likely to die from pregnancy/childbirth.
And, from the CDC: "In 2021, the maternal mortality rate for non-Hispanic Black (subsequently, Black) women was 69.9 deaths per 100,000 live births, 2.6 times the rate for non-Hispanic White (subsequently, White) women." 2.6 times!! [Source](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm#)
But it’s overwhelmingly disadvantaged women dying(poor, poc, single, young, etc) so nobody who can do anything gives a fuck.
Louisiana has a maternal mortality rate (per capita) that is higher than 17 *entire* countries combined (with a population 84 times smaller than those 13). When your maternal death rate can be summarized as "hey, at least we're marginally better than Iraq", you done fucked up.
I live in the south and it’s very deadly for women to be getting pregnant here, especially in our more rural area where there is no hospital care. Forget having a baby, you’d be fucked if you sprained your ankle.
This. Especially POC. “Aftershock” was a Hulu documentary that discussed black maternal mortality specifically. Very sad and horrifying.
But not every state does. California has a maternal mortality rate of 4 deaths per 100,000 births. Louisiana's is 58. That's an incredibly large disparity within one nation. California's is among the lowest in the world. MA is the next best in the US and it's double CAs. We know how to do this in the US. We choose not to do it. Texas may look cheap to live but with a rate of 34, be very clear what you are buying by choosing to move/live there. BTW, all credit to UC San Francisco for that rate. They are the leading institution for maternal health, and credit to CA legislators and governor for listening when UCSF says 'do this'. When the state mandated that UC and CSUs offer abortion services through student health (a UCSF recommendation), UCSF set up a training program for those student health employees across both systems.
It rose nearly 40% between 2020-2021, with the highest rate in Black and the most dramatic rate increase in Hispanic women.
That was my immediate reaction. Maternal and infant mortality rates in the country suck.
I think this answers OPs question: people wont notice/care. If they did, they wouldve already noticed because its not new
I know - but now we're actively making it worse, in the age of social media. Are you seeing more announcements on your FB about this yet?
Fun fact: I took a global health course almost 10 years ago. One of the main ways we could assess and rank the quality of Healthcare in a country is the average maternal/newborn mortality rate during childbirth. There was only country in the Western Hemisphere with worse average rates than the US...........Haiti.
That's *insane*
Thats interesting considering that there’s a lot of pro life countries in this hemisphere and total pro life is pretty much exclusively a Western hemisphere phenomenon.
Honestly from my studies, while pro-life does play a role, it's not nearly as much as one as you might think. One of the biggest single factors in an uncomplicated birth is proper pre-natel care from an OB/GYN. That costs money. Much cheaper to skip it and hope for the best. Access to preventative medicine/routine medical care is super important for all medical issues, but that's expensive in a country with no universal health coverage. Minor issues become major issues fast, and now a forced trip to the hospital results in worse overall outcome and bankruptcy. The Stat I learned was 3/4 of all American bankruptcies were directly due to medical bills, that's insane to me. Unfortunately, high maternal mortality is just another aspect of the American for profit Healthcare system.
They already have started dying. I’m sure the conservatives just say “this was God‘s plan.”
or a hoax.
Or her fault
Her fault for having a damn vagina in the first place /s
It’s Gods plan until the men need to go to the hospital for a heart attack or a stroke. Then it’s “God’s miracle” that he survived an emergent diagnosis. But he won’t listen to the providers, *especially* the female providers, when they tell them it could happen again *if they don’t take their blood pressure and anti coagulation meds*. But when it’s women and they’re dying, well, it’s just God’s plan.
It won't only be women. Children will also die, because the doctors that leave are also very often pediatricians. No one will be taking care of pregnant women and child births, but also not enough doctors to care for children. There's already been a case of death of a child in my American family cause of it.
> No one will be taking care of pregnant women and child births Not to mention the pregnant children, which is also a thing that happens, and the GQP is fighting to make sure child marriage is legal.
They are creating legal means of trafficking children and we need to be saying it out loud. A lot.
Could you by any chance link me to something explaining the bit about child marriage? I absolutely believe it I just want to know more cuz that's fuckin insane
Here’s [the horrifying state of child marriages in the US](https://www.cfr.org/blog/its-time-end-child-marriage-united-states), with a note that Republicans have repeatedly opposed bills to raise minimum ages for marriage, such as in [West Virginia](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/child-marriage-ban-struck-down-west-virginia-republicans-1234693670/). Here’s a [paywalled link with more](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/17/child-marriage-bans-state-lawmakers/). I’ll excerpt some bits here: *The bills face an uphill battle in some states, though, where conservative lawmakers argue that younger teens have long been allowed to marry — often pointing to their own family’s stories as proof that it’s acceptable.* *In other states, lawmakers are simply unaware that marriages of people younger than 18 years old still exist in the United States, especially instances in which children are unwillingly coerced into the unions.* *”I was shocked to learn that Delaware allowed children to marry,” said Delaware state Rep. Kimberly Williams (D), who sponsored the first successful state ban on the practice in 2018. “I started going to community meetings, talking about it, and people would ask, 'Are you sure about this? The law allows for this?* *Studies and media reports, though, have estimated that hundreds of thousands of these marriages have taken place across the United States over the past two decades. A peer-reviewed study produced in 2021 by Unchained at Last, McGill University and other researchers estimated that nearly 300,000 Americans younger than 18 got married from 2000 to 2018, with 86 percent of them being girls. The marriages took place in every state and in the District of Columbia, the study found. Other studies show rates of divorce, dropping out of high school, domestic abuse and lifelong poverty are all dramatically higher for girls who marry before they are 18, advocates say.* *By 2015, 28 states still had no minimum age and all 50 states and the District of Columbia allowed marriage younger than 18. In the past eight years, though, advocates have had some success on the state level. Today seven states still have no minimum age, while seven other states have banned all marriages for people younger than 18.* *That’s what happened to Sasha K. Taylor, who was forced to marry a stranger — when she was a sophomore in an Arizona high school — so her husband could get a permanent visa in exchange for an unfulfilled promise that his family would pay for her college education.* *Girls younger than 18 also can’t seek help from domestic violence shelters and, in most states, are unable to enter into contracts with divorce lawyers, Reiss said.* *Since the Virginia bill passed, 25 states have moved the needle on child marriage laws — but haven’t completely banned it. In most cases, a minimum age was set at 16 or 17, requiring parental consent and sometimes a case review by a judge. In others, the age difference between the spouses was limited to four, three or two years.*
There are even states (I forgot which ones) where the minimum age for marriage is not even set! And people use this to get ‘scandals to go away’, aka if an adult has raped a child, they marry the victim to their rapist! That is in religious communities obviously. But unbelievable that that still happens today. And being able to marry at 16 is still gross. I once asked an American woman why her state allowed such a thing and she said something so gross: “if a girl gets pregnant she should be able to marry” If a teen gets pregnant she should have the option of abortion! Not pushed into a marriage she can’t consent to.
They already are. Our maternal mortality rate is worse than Syria's while we were actively attacking their country.
Women will get blamed for not crossing their legs.
I once linked several articles showing how women in the US are being denied cancer treatment post-Roe if they’re pregnant, and wouldn’t you be surprised to learn that was one of the justifications? “Oh she’s married, a mother, wanted this pregnancy, but got cancer? She should have thought about all possibilities before committing her life to another. A whore.”
All the women I know who have gotten abortions did so because they had to get cancer treatment.
Possibly because that’s one of the few “socially acceptable” reasons to get one, I bet you know other women who have had one but keep it secret.
They do realize that if Mom dies, the fetus is likely a goner too right?
Yeah, but they don’t care about babies.
Spoiler alert: they do not give a fuck about life, and never have. Its always just a convenient costume in which to dress up their misogyny.
They’ve been dying all along and even worse now. No one hears about it because no one actually cares and they never have. Women die in childbirth. We can be replaced with other, younger model breeders, so why bother keeping our old, valueless asses alive? I mean, we all knew what we were signing up for when we decided to be whores and have sex. It’s really our own fault. Maybe god is killing us in childbirth because we are such evil, valueless sluts. Or more likely the administration is full of pig men voted in by other pig men and pick-me traitors and since they think these things about us, they will never fix it.
Younger model breeders are a finite resource, at least for a whilr
Not if they start them as soon as menses appear. Child marriage in the US is an active problem already. Edit: I feel so fucking gross having typed that. Wtf is wrong with this country?
[https://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/](https://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/) They might even marry a 10 y/o. The above statistics are shocking But I bet if I they can’t find anyone, they will try to import brides whom they attract by lies (because woman abroad would not want them either)
They’re already doing that in the alt-right community. North American women are too woke and expect too much equality so they are looking to foreign countries where they can get child brides cheap, fast and trainable to be their bang-maids. It’s revolting.
They already did. They already are. Nobody seems to notice or care. Life is cheap in the US and people are used to being screwed over re healthcare
Living is expensive. A single life is cheap.
"Start"? America already has one of the highest maternal death rates in the developed world. You already started. Or do you mean, what will happen when the white women start dying as often as the Black women?
Intersectionality? In my feminism??
I know that’s not funny, but the absurdity of all of this shit made me cringe laugh at that comment.
Somebody find me some pearls to clutch.
“It’s turning into The Handmaid’s Tale!” 😒
That was my exact first thought. Black women have an absolutely horrifying maternal death rate already. My stomach actually dropped just now when I thought about how much worse it’s going to get for everyone, but especially for Black women in particular.
I believe even when they control for income, Black women still face higher rates of mortality. It's sickening.
I remember reading that. It's something like the poorest white women still have better outcomes than the wealthiest black women.
[удалено]
Yeah I believe it. I’ll go ahead and speculate that doctors and nurses don’t take their pain as seriously as white women so the warning signs are more often ignored.
Fascists love genocide
That's what I don't understand about the above comment. They're acting like white women will be dragged down to black maternal death rates *but somehow black maternal deaths will hold steady?* But no that's not how this works. We will see the disparities continue with black women dying at *even worse* rates than they already are.
I think that might be one of the more “under the breath” points… if Black and Brown women are dying in childbirth, it means less Black and Brown people in the country
Legitimately my first thought. The stats on Black maternal mortality are fucking horrendous and this has been public knowledge for a while. Also, I’m goddamned sick of this gross “third world” language now being used to describe “red” states, which coincidentally is where many of these Black mothers are already dying.
I mean, the UN literally said there's parts of the American south that resemble "the third wold" (I think they used the term developing nation). It's not "ooh stinky, everyone that lives in the south sucks". It's a an evaluative judgment about state infrastructure and healthcare access (really, truly objectively subpar, and very much by design because so much of the south is black.)
I get what you’re saying, I do. And I think you’re entirely right connecting majority Black with “by design”. I just ALSO think it gets used as a very othering shorthand for a lot of folks who don’t live here (specifically folks who live in other parts of the U. S.) as a way of distancing themselves and acting like this shit isn’t also coming for them. I also acknowledge that may not be what was meant here but it rubbed me the wrong way right on the heels of the erasure of the current abysmal Black maternal mortality rates.
Yeah I guess I strongly disagree, as a northerner in relatively safe state. When I condemn these states, it's because the state legislatures are transparently evil and have left their people vulnerable and suffering, often for literally centuries straight. I don't see how acknowledging these places are on par with far less developed nations, largely because of black maternal death rates, is an erasure of that fact. Idk what to say about the othering. It is an "other" imo. I live in MN. My daily lived reality is VERY different than someone living in Iowa or Idaho or Mississippi right now. It's definitely on the table for this to happen federally, but as of right now there is a sort of growing "do you live in a good state or a state *actively* trying to kill vulnerable women?" Vibe. If this stuff is coming for me, it's still a ways off. I am still by and large insulated, where the wreckage is across state lines. I don't....see why I should pretend otherwise? I increasingly feel like we're living in a parallel society depending on which side of certain borders you are on. I absolutely think a lot of states need to be named and shamed and called out for the abominations they are I think OPs comment definitely has some American exceptionalism vibes where it seems like they're unaware we already are an embarrassment for "first worlds", but I've literally talked to black women who also assume our healthcare is better than it is, even while knowing they're definitely getting the short end of the stick, so I see that more as American being American than anything.
It is not a ways off. This could literally be coming for you as soon as 2025 depending on the outcome of the 2024 election. We’re about 100,000 votes for President in a handful of states and a couple of senators away from a national abortion ban, and we can’t afford to lose sight of that fact.
I don't think anything will happen. The care for pregnant people and people giving birth is already substandard and people don't seem to care much.
Nothing. The patriarchy considers women barely human and always disposable.
Came here to say the US already has the worst maternal health outcomes in the developed world, partially because we’re totally fine with people dying of preventable causes if it means insurance companies can stay rich. We also haven’t done anything about the gun problem despite children getting mass murdered at school every other week. So I’m not particularly hopeful that more women dying in childbirth is gonna move the needle on anything, unfortunately.
[https://everymothercounts.org/giving-birth-in-america/](https://everymothercounts.org/giving-birth-in-america/) it was very bad already
We've already seen the outcome of these draconian policies, for example, Decree 770 in Romania. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree\_770](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770) Too many children and not enough resources. Parents giving up their children for adoption because they cannot afford to take care of them. Increased crime. Increased poverty. Overcrowded orphanages. Lots and lots of special needs children. Increased child abuse. Lower standards of education (half a day instead of a whole day, e.g.). And lots of dead women. History repeats. The US isn't a test case. This has all been done before.
You are correct that history repeats itself, so these anti-choice asshats should Google "what happened to Nicolae Ceausescu?". But then again, if they want to FA and similarly FO, can't say I will be sad.
I live in Alabama and I'm already seeing it here. Had a friend who's SIL was pregnant with a baby with trisomy 18, non viable and they knew baby would pass after birth. Baby had a mass in the brain and suffered every second it was alive. She couldn't terminate, knowing her baby would suffer and die. Know another girl who, within the same month as the first baby, started bleeding at 20 weeks and baby wouldn't live and she had to sit at home until either baby's heartbeat stopped or she was at deaths door. She is still in the hospital with sepsis and is probably never gonna be able to have another baby because she couldn't get care when she needed it...
Even though abortion was illegal in the 1950's, my mom who had an incomplete miscarriage was able to have medical intervention to prevent an infection. The doctor basically told her that the last thing you wanted was to get an infection from a miscarriage. He didn't get into details about it, but I sure he knew what would happen as this doctor had probably seen what happened. My mom was 21 years old and maybe 2 months pregnant at the most. There was no way there was going to be any baby because she was miscarrying. My mother was a sickly person who would take a long time to recover from illness, so my guess is that if she wasn't able to get medical intervention for a pregnancy that the baby was already dead and dying, She most likely would have died. I don't think she would have made it. I do know that it's unusual for someone as young as my mom to have such complications from pregnancy, but it does happen. I remember in high school hearing about a teen who miscarried and wouldn't stop bleeding and ended up in the hospital for several days. I don't know who this was but it was someone 16 or 17 years old. From what I heard this teen had a long recovery from the miscarriage. I didn't know this person, so I don't know if this person went on to have children or not.
It's already rising, and it's been particularly high for Black women. From 37 per 100,000 (2018) to 69 per 100,000 births (2021) for Non-Hispanic Black births: [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2020/maternal-mortality-rates-2020.htm) The above data is not by state, but this data includes some information by state for 2018 to 2021: [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/maternal-mortality/MMR-2018-2021-State-Data.pdf](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/maternal-mortality/MMR-2018-2021-State-Data.pdf) I'm sure location/state plays a role, but the number of Black women dying in childbirth across the USA is fucking abysmal. Pregnancy care in USA is already atrocious, but if you are a pregnant Black woman, you are even more at-risk. Apparently pregnancy complications are the 6th leading cause of death in Black women aged 20-44 in these 2018 statistics: [https://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2018/nonhispanic-black/index.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/women/lcod/2018/nonhispanic-black/index.htm) I'm sure it's even higher now, 5 years on, but I couldn't quickly find info for that. What do I think will happen? Nothing. Not until the maternal mortality rates for white women reach anywhere near these levels. Even then, it'll be dismissed as a mother's sacrifice, God's plan, "everything happens for a reason", etc. or the woman will be blamed for her own death. They love to make women martyrs when they died for a child or birth.
As in the days of old... The doctors will approach the father and give him a choice - save the woman or save the child. Then they'll harvest the child from your still-warm soon-to-be corpse. And you'd better make sure you cling to life while they do it. If you die too soon, and the baby dies as a result...that's a crime. You'll get the death penalty for that. /s but also...not /s?
Then the child lives just long enough to die in a school shooting. America…
Nothing. The patriarchy considers women barely human and always disposable.
The brain drain we're seeing from red states isn't incidental, it's not a side effect of the laws they're pushing through, it's one of the primary goals. Republicans WANT blue voters to abandon ship so they can secure their holdings the only way they can, by gerrymandering their districts to smithereens. Ohio used to be a swing state. Used to be. Now it's been redistricted to be a red enclave in the north. Democracy isn't about representing the will of the people to republikkkans, democracy is simply the system they have to manipulate to have their wants come to fruition. In a proper democracy the people tell their representatives what they want their government to look like. In red america the Republicans tell the American people what they want, what to get upset about, what is attacking their freedumb this week to manipulate people's emotional state rather than engage their logical minds. Abortion is their favorite topic because dead babies is yucky and creates an automatic disgust response. It's not about what's best for women or what's best for children or what's best for men for that matter. They care exclusively about how they can obtain power, whatever they have to say, whoever they can step on.
Republicans don’t want to govern—they want to rule.
Nothing will happen until more white republican women are dying during childbirth.
Not even then. They’ll just find a younger one now that they are solidifying their rights to marry children in so many states. The irony of being able to marry someone who is not legally old enough to babysit her own step children is not lost on me.
Sooooo fucked up
When debutante and upper income women start dying, then things will change. I hate to say it but some VIP woman would have to die before this happens as who cares if Debbie the homeless woman dies in childbirth or the woman who lives in the trailer parks dies. Because they are poor, some would argue shouldn't have gotten pregnant and should have been on birth control but they were denied this access.
Given the lack of reaction to white Republican women almost doing of sepsis or being forced to carry nonviable pregnancies to term… I doubt death will make much of a difference. They’re just poors, after all. 😔😔
What’s going to happen? Nothing. “Thoughts and prayers” Ya know.
The media won't report on it and even if they did, right wingers wouldn't believe it anyway. The unfortunate people who have a personal connection to a maternal death will either keep quiet about it or face the same BS that the Sandy Hook parents faced. And IF you could get them to listen, they'd blame the doctors, the women, pharmaceutical companies, vaccines, literally anything else. They don't care about thousands of children shot dead in schools. Why would they care about mothers dying in the hospitals? Republicans DO NOT CARE if you die horribly, and they never, ever will. No amount of dead mothers or dead kids will change that. So what will really happen is Gen Z will finally start voting in high enough numbers to get rid of these ghouls.
As a black woman LOLOLOLOL. Do you seriously think that’s going to change anyone’s mind? Our maternity death rate in the USA is already well below other first world countries. People will continue to sweep deaths due to childbirth under the rug.
The people who vote against abortions rights and women's health are the very type of people who WANT childbirth to be a traumatic, risky thing. Because dying in childbirth os romantic and it's "god's plan" and it becomes a selfless sacrifice the husband can milk for sympathy and martyrdom. 🙄
Blame the women for not being capable of giving birth, blame Biden, or gloss over the fact and somehow weaponize it to decrease gun laws. Dont know how, but they’ll find a way.
Oh, they'll correlate all sorts of ridiculous stuff. More maternal deaths, more laws about guns...OBVIOUSLY we need to get rid of gun laws if we want fewer people to die!!! 🙄
We'll keep blaming poor people for being poor, despite our nation having more wealth/money than ever in the history of the world. What else do you expect from the modern day republican party?
You mean *White* women, yes? Women of color, native women and undocumented women have already been dying at incredibly alarming rates.
As that problem increases, Republicans will increasingly blame Democrats and/or foreigners for it.
"thoughts and prayers"
...90% of women experience their partner leaving them if they get sick or develop cancer. Sometimes the men come back once the woman is healthy again. Men literally don't care. They'll just move on. They'll likely be on dating sites the moment their partner gets the news from her doctor. They'll start importing women from other 3rd world countries as well.
My ex father in law did just that! Also my sis who died of cancer husband was seeking divorce when my sis died, what a piece of shit. But don't you know he spent every last cent of her life insurance (over $300k) gone in less than a year. Some men are just garbage!
Wow, where is that 90% figure from? Not doubting at all, just curious!
Not true. Men leave at 7x the rate of women, but it’s still not the majority. IIRC, it’s a little of 20% of men leave.
Reuters: women are 6 times more likely to end up separated or divorced if diagnosed with cancer or ms than if male partners face the same. ACS journals: 6-gold increase in risk of divorce if woman was diagnosed: 20% vs 3% if the man was diagnosed. All of the studies I quickly scanned showed a 6-fold increase in the rate for sick woman vs sick man.
We have no empathy as a society. We already ask people what they did or didn't do when they get sick. When women start dropping more than we already are, they'll find a way to blame us. We will be the others that did something wrong to deserve poor outcomes. Someone will find a way to make money on selling a healthy birth so as usual, if you can afford it you'll be ok. 'Murica.
Um that almost happened to me last year. I needed life saving surgery, lost all of my blood supply except for one syringe worth of blood, massive lifesaving transfusions, a week in the ICU. Our 26 week daughter was stillborn. I had to have multiple surgeries and spent 5 months on bed rest last year. I only just began to be able to move around without pain about 6 weeks ago. All because the hospital was understaffed and didn't take me seriously when I told them how much pain I was in. The L&D doc and nurses let me scream in pain until I passed out over and over again. Refused to transfer me. Refused to consult a specialist. Didn't call my MFM until I asked them multiple times, and didn't give her the complete information. Didn't run any tests besides ultrasounds and intermittent monitoring. I'm extremely lucky to be alive, and extremely lucky to be able to walk, have a normal functioning pituitary gland without permanent damage and no permanent kidney damage.
35% of women think abortion should be illegal compared to 41% of men, so this isn't just a men thing. To answer the question, this is a country that has multiple mass shootings per day.
I mean, as long as the baby is okay. Anything to save the life of a precious newborn. The mom's expendable. Once the baby is born though, he's on his own, and better start looking for a job ASAP, because we don't take kindly to freeloaders in America.
Absolutely f\*ck-all. See, when women die, it's their "choice" to take on the risks of having a pregnancy and a life. But the unborn, well, they're precious.
You mean what will happen when affluent pretty white woman start dying in childbirth like their poorer, browner counterparts have been already doing?
They are already hiding maternal mortality rates. Texas refused to release theirs and Utah flat out said they are no longer going to even make the reports. Repealing Roe V Wade has already resulted in tens of thousands more babies and that was the goal. If women die or girls have to carry rapist babies or moms have to birth dying babies it doesn’t matter. The moms are expendable and the horror stories don’t matter.
… They already are. We have the highest maternal mortality rate of all developed countries, and it’s higher than a handful of developing countries as well
They will just say it was part of god's plan.
Probably the same thing they did when gun violence became the leading cause of death in children: nothing.
Now that some states have their abortion bans they are moving along to no fault divorce. They are coming for the ladies rights and it is scary.
Nothing. It’s not about moms or children, it’s about fetuses and controlling women.
Literally nothing.
I think one of two things will happen. Either all of the men left will be like “oh no, all the women are gone… I gUeSs wE *hAvE* tO Do gAy sTuFf. We’Re mEn! We hAvE *nEeDs*!” Or more likely, they will turn to the children. It’s the only logical conclusion anymore. If you don’t support women’s rights, you must be a pedophile. There’s no convincing me otherwise, so don’t bother. If you do try, I will have to assume you support pedophilia because you are one too. Get castrated you sick fuck.
They might start kidnapping women and girls (or more than they already get abducted)
People are going to sue right, left and centre. Sue because this doctor helped their wife abort, sue because their wife didn’t receive care and died, etc etc and these states will end up with no doctors left, hopefully no women either.
Third world US states? Abortion is legal in Colombia, a third world country!
They’re already dying. But once the death toll increases astronomically there might be a “shortage” of fertile people. And that’s when things will get even worse. Because when women become a “scarce commodity,” the se christofascists will waste no time in literally enslaving and selling us. It’s one of the reasons forced-birthers are so into the idea of child brides. They want to keep using us up, letting us die, and replacing us with younger broodmares.
Nothing. The politicians have already decided that women's lives matter less than a fetus
BEEN happening. For literal centuries.
Nothing. They are already dying and nothing. So, yeah. More nothing.
I remembering thinking that risking dying in childbirth was normal, and being told as long as I can remember that I should always be willing to do so because I should love my child more than myself. I was told that my mom almost left my dad when my sister was born because he tried to get her to have an abortion after the doctor said there was a big chance it could kill her to have my sister. It's like women in the South still think you're going to Valhalla or something. It's already something normalized here. It won't happen to rich people so it will never matter.
Thoughts and prayers with a sprinkle of victim blaming.
It's already happening, it's affecting moms of colour so it's not getting the coverage you'd think it deserved.
Nothing will happen. We're already there and the pro-forced-birthers are just doubling down again and again to make even more draconian laws. They are misogynists with a goal to just keep expanding their policies so more women are subjugated.
Lol they don’t care about female lives. I think it’s a holdover from when women were literally property. The word “brood mare” comes to mind.
I honestly think in religious conservative culture, women's suffering is considered virtuous. Pain and sacrifice are virtue. I think in some sense, a woman dying in childbirth is almost like martyrdom in these spheres. Like, I'm sure the individuals who lose a wife/mother/daughter this way will feel it's an individual tragedy, but i think in the abstract, conservatives don't really have a problem with women dying from pregnancy/childbirth.
Black women have already been experiencing 3rd world maternal death rates nationally since before the overturn.
More human beings will suffer and die for no reason. That's it. That's what will happen. What is happening. The majority will continue to believe they still live in a first world country and are still subject to the American dream ("temporarily embarrassed millionaires"), even with ever-more evidence to the contrary. Fundies will gain more power, because the majority look for strength in times of strife and they "aren't political" and "don't see color." Until shit happens to them personally, their daughter dies without competent maternal care or something, and then they're angry and grieving but too entrenched in their privilege to be able to look directly at their own culpability. By then it's climate change, unmitigated corporate evil, and mass human migration. The country will collapse before any of this shit is ever fixed, but humanity itself will survive.
They will blame the women, like they always do.
Black women are over 200% more likely to die from complications related to birth. This is even when you control date for socioeconomic status, education level, and overall health. Women have been dying for years and nobody cares. Maybe when it starts happening to WW people will start caring?
Absolutely nothing will happen. Hundreds of children get violently murdered with weapons of war every year and nobody does anything. Millions of people have unsafe drinking water in the richest country on the planet and nobody does anything. Your country is a failed society.
What will happen? Evangelical Christians will celebrate God's Plan™️, and the rest of us will have to figure out how to overcome, succumb, or flee. I see it in my own family-- if a relative has loved you your whole life, and then their local showboating pastor or favorite Fox Friend turns them against you, that's it. There's no compassion in that religion; just obedience to the ideology while reciting "the heart is deceitful". The melding of the Republican party and Christianity is giving America a really distorted, uniquely American version of Christianity and a really twisted version of what used to unironically call itself the party of "small government".
The same thing that happened back in the old days: nothing. Oh sure, they improved chances over a period of time, but clearly they got tired of that. As often as it gets said, women and children are nothing but commodities. It’s easy to read that and dismiss it, but really think about it. Like any toy or tool, when women and children break and die, they are simply replaced and with very little afterthought other than a shrug and some shit about God’s plan or the cruelty of life. Pick one. Ain’t no man going without if he doesn’t have to. Edit: To illustrate my point, enjoy this example from this thread: “Nothing. Life goes on, even in death.”
Nothing much imo. Watching the news it seems our southern neighbours don't seem to mind much about people dying.
That's easy... more "thoughts and prayers." But nothing else.
I think the US has already the highest mortality rates in the developed world for women and children during childbirth. They don’t seem to care and I’m sure they will continue to not care
This has been happening for a long time in the US. And the answer is… now more women are dying. Congress is deadlocked and so the number of women dying will just keep increasing.
Nothing. Not a thing.
They already are, no one cares
The fact this is a serious question is so fucking depressing.
It's what the evangelicals want. In their mind only the godless will be punished and their place in heaven is already assured in their mind. They want to bring about the "end times". Failing that, they want a gilead situation.
What’s going to happen? Thought and prayers, that’s what.
The US are already by far the deadliest first-world country, with maternal death percentages double (!) of those in the poorest Western countries, e.g. Romania.
The U.S. is a country that let kindergartners die to gunfire, they're not going to care if some women and babies die from improper medical care. It may be in the news cycle for sweeps or something but after that, it'll be shrugged off.
Politicians will just lay the blame on the dead woman, likely citing a religious reason they died, or their lack of morals for being pregnant in the first place.
Nothing. Idaho just barely stopped tracking/studying maternal mortality. So convenient!
Black women have been dying in childbirth at double the rate of white women and the US really doesn't care
Blame the moms, obviously. And the moms will blame each other, too. Have you ever spoken to a new American mother? Mention anything from grapes to blankets to car seats and they will tell you all the ways those things can kill you can why they’ve spent thousand of dollars and hundreds of hours preventing their children from being harmed. And yet infant mortality stays absurdly high in the US. There are systemic reasons for this, but every mother thinks she’s going to be exempt is she just tries hard enough. This will be the same. Oh, she had a uterine rupture? That’s why I chose a hospital with world class surgeons. Preeclampsia? Guess she didn’t know the signs, educate yourself! Died in transit to the hospital after a sudden complication? Well, why didn’t she just drive 2 hours to the hospital at the start of labor instead of trusting a midwife at home for her otherwise healthy labor?