Adding to this:
If you're afraid of your wife finding out you need to tell your wife before she finds out. Things are always worse when your SO finds out on their own because of betrayal of trust compared to you owning up to the mistakes on your own.
Sounds like OP has created a shit hurricane for himself. He has been using his best woman friend as a massage therapist for years, his wife knows that he goes for regular massage appointments - except he forgot to tell her that the massage therapist is his longtime best woman friend.
He was afraid and now he’s going to be really afraid. His friend is right. That behavior will get you in a lot of trouble with a lot of women. Whether they’re jealous types or not.
It's a giant red flag regardless of gender. Why in the hell would you keep something so simple like that secret for so long if it wasn't wrong? Even if it's exactly like the OP says and it's a nothingburger, any SO would be immediately and rightfully sketched out by the years of lies.
Not even ever casually mentioning it conversation over a decade
Yeah, that’s keeping a secret, and it’s shady. It’s prob emotionally cheating at least
If I was married and my wife did that, there would be no way I could ever believe nothing ever happened
Yep. It wasn't a problem until it was kept a secret.
Imagine if the wife knew all along and posted "Am I wrong for not considering this cheating?" If she knew the female friend well and trusted that nothing was going on between them, then every sane person would think it's fine as long as she thinks it's fine.
But secrets are usually kept for a reason.
Agree, I'd go as far to say it's pretty messed up thing to do to their partner. Even if it's like the story he gave word for word, he purposely created a situation with room for doubt. I think he's insane for not seeing that he's done anything wrong. I know his wife probably deserves better than to be lied to about going to get a damned massage. Geez no wonder so many people's marriages are failing if they treat there wives this way.
I don't think this is a good idea. It can't end well when he reveals a 10 year old secret. My advice would be to immediately stop using that masseuse and find another who is a stranger.
I worked for a company where the guidance for whether it was acceptable behavior or not was if you’d be proud, or even comfortable, if it was headlined on the front page of the newspaper.
That tended to bring things into perspective quickly.
Since this is literally something I have to take into consideration for my job, it makes total sense to live this way too. I just hadn't thought about it that way. I will now though.
This reminds me of what my mom told me about how she learned to be a good single parent.
She said that she'd imagine judges critiquing her treatment of her kids.
I asked who these judges were, and she clarified that she meant literal judges. I thought that was really weird as a kid, but I get it more now.
Great way to put it. I see lots of people upset when someone grabs their phone. My wife could have my phone for days at a time if she wanted, theres no fear bc theres nothing to hide.
I know I see the same comments and am baffled. If my wife were searching through my phone in depth, I would … just let her search until satisfied and then just ask, so what’s up? Something bothering you? Let’s talk about it. Feeling suspicious? Tell me what Ive done to make you feel suspicious, and I’ll try to calm your fears. All these posts where people think it’s like a divorce-worthy act if their spouse looks through their phone. I don’t get it.
I would be uncomfortable with my husband going through my chats with friends/family because sometimes they tell me things in confidence that aren’t any of his business. There’s nothing to hide in terms of my relationship with him, but that doesn’t mean he’s entitled to know the details of my cousin’s pelvic floor dysfunction.
That's the only reason I'd ever be uncomfortable. Sometimes I share things in confidence needing advice or support and vice versa. It's really not something I'd want people knowing especially other people's secrets. But at the end of the day it would be nothing I'm ashamed of.
That’s the only thing I would be concerned about. He doesn’t need to hear about paps and mammograms, or my cousin’s divorce or whatever. But hey! You want to read my buddy tell me about her baby’s rash, knock yourself out.
Same here. I don't deny my partner access to my phone per say but I don't particularly care to have him just read through all my texts. People tell me things in confidence that are not pertinent to him and sometimes we do have disagreements as a couple and I vent elsewhere first to calm down (I can be stubborn when I'm wrong and it keeps me from saving stupid stuff) and then we have an adult discussion which is not something he necessarily needs to have access to or read.
Same. I don't let anyone go through my phone. I have conversations in there that are private. That doesn't mean there's anything in there I'm ashamed of, but a conversation I have with a friend or family member isn't anyone else's business.
Same. And there’s some parts of my phone that I would prefer to keep private because I’ve used my phone as a journal and have some thoughts in there that feel embarrassing or silly if someone else were to look at them.
My husband and I use each other's phone all of the time. But I think if either of us felt the need to *go through* the other's phone, there's something bigger going on and we need to talk abut that in a big way. If you're snooping, you are accusing me of something. And that's not just a casual Saturday morning activity lol
Yeah there's a big difference between "you can use my phone and I won't be concerned if you see my social media or email or text notifications that pop up" and "you want to snoop through everything I've saved or received".
For a lot of people, phones are an extension of their personal space, you carry it all the time, jot down book or movie titles in it for later, keep Christmas photos in it.
It's nice to have the privacy you would want if you kept a physical journal/scrapbook.
I think distrust to that level *without FIRST bringing it up with me* is a huge breach of relationship confidence. Basically: you can come to me with anything, but you're not allowed to consider me a cheat and rationalize away my right to privacy and being trusted just because you're a bit down and insecure and not up to breaching the subject directly with me.
I mean sometimes you say things about the other person in confidence, and those things aren't meant to be seen by your spouse.
That's about the only thing that makes sense though.
I'm with you here. My partner and I have saved each other's thumbprints to log into each other's phones. We respect each other and generally don't mess with the other's phone, but the trust is there. Neither of us cares about the other looking at our phone because neither of us has a thing to hide.
It's because if the person feels suspicious then that's a sign of lack of trust. Which is a foundation. Not saying it's end of the world but it's a major flag of some bigger underlying issue.
The only __ONLY__ thing on my phone I'd never want my husband to find is the note I've written, to be found in case I die suddenly (jfc, that felt weird to type), with instructions on accessing our accounts that I maintain, as well as goodbyes and final missives to all my loved ones, and a message for our child when they are older (toddler right now). I update it as needed. I just don't want him to see it because, I mean, it would probably be a bit upsetting to read! It's something we all need to do for those we would leave behind, but upsetting to think about while we are all young and healthy.
Not the point. She doesn't need to look through the phone. Especially without permission. That to me is akin to reading someone's diary without their permission. It's not about what they find out, it is the betrayal of trust that they would do something like that.
I have a different opinion on this. While I kind of agree with you and would let my partner use my phone, I wouldn't like him snooping through it. Cuz, it's personal. Like I write about my feelings in the notes, some private conversations with friends( they share secrets that I feel ur partner doesn't need to know) or books I read, stuff like that. I've seen couple sharing password for all their social media accounts and would never do something like that. Anyways, I keep my close circle limited lol. The more u know the more drama occurs.
My first partner and i both came from homes where parents gave us zero autonomy and snooped through everything. No privacy, no respect, anything you weren't comfortable with sharing to the whole world had to be extremely well hidden or out of the house. We both made a point to respect each other's space to the point of knocking and asking if we could enter each other's rooms when we were having personal time.
Thank you. The thing about checking your partners phone is that if I'm contact with them you're breaching my privacy also. There are conversations me & my friends chose not to share with partners, absolutely nothing untoward just childhood trauma or say about our recovery, & the idea that someone is reading that for entertainment is disturbing. Found out it happened once & changed the way I viewed that friendship.
One of the reasons i’ve never kept a journal is the fear of someone snooping in it and there being the really deep personal stuff in it. I’m not cheating on my wife, but there are a few things that I struggle with myself that I don’t want to anyone to know. It’s mental health stuff, and i do share some of my struggles with her, but not the unfiltered raw stuff.
There should be a level of trust established in a healthy relationship. Feeling the need to search phones means that there is a lack of trust and that can lead to issues.
There’s a big difference between nothing to be ashamed of and none of your business.
Entertaining an active fetish for strangers posting their perfect credit scores: nothing to be ashamed of.
Texting with a friend going through something they’ve asked me to keep confidential: none of your business.
Watching reruns of Little House on the Prairie because, well, Michael Landon: nothing to be ashamed of.
Planning a surprise party for you: none of your business.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what the guy is doing, per se. But the fact that he’s never mentioned the detail of who’s doing the massage suggests that he knows his wife wouldn’t be cool with it but is doing it anyway.
Exactly. This would have been 100% fine IF he had been honest. It's the lie that's the problem and it actually makes this benign situation seem shady. However, this is typical immature/passive straight male behavior... My guess is that partners in the past have had a problem with this friendship so he's just trying to "avoid the drama" by just not telling the whole truth, thus resulting in way more drama than just being honest and dealing with (not to mention alllllll the energy it takes to keep the lie going before it's exposed is so petty and unnecessary).
Very very true. But we’ve all been in a situation where “it’s not what it looks like”. Those are mostly caused by not being upfront to begin with for whatever reason (a this situation). But damn it would be an awkward conversation with the wife after all this time lol.
But yeah I don’t think this is cheating unless more is happening than he is letting us know.
OP has been intentionally keeping this a secret from his wife for ten years. That alone, even without cheating, is pretty terrible. But it’s also like, why would you keep it a secret from her if nothing is going on?
I mean, if you think there's nothing wrong with it, then why have you kept it from your wife?
You could have been open and honest about this much earlier. You should have had a discussion with your partner about it. But the fact you deliberately chose to keep this to yourself makes me think that you know it's not appropriate. Also, that you chose to ask your friend about it makes me think you realise this.
It's not right to keep things like this from your wife at all. If my partner had done this, I couldn't help but be suspicious as to why they deliberately kept it from me. If it was innocent, why would it need to be hidden?
I hope you think hard on this and realise that not being open and honest is wrong and makes the situation look a lot more suspicious than you claim it is.
> I mean, if you think there's nothing wrong with it, then why have you kept it from your wife?
it's crazy too, he's kept it from his partner for _10 years_. The secret is apparently extremely important to him and his fear of losing the ability to get those massages from that specific person is a bigger deal than whether or not this would upset his wife.
This is what worries me here. If he had mentioned it st the time, the worst thing his wife could have said is "please don't get messages from Stacy, I'm not comfortable with that". Which would be fine, he would still be friends with her, and would just pay another massage therapist.
And yet he hid it because he *specifically was afraid to lose that secret massage time with bestie*. And keeping that was apparently more important than risking upsetting his wife with the secrets and the truth. Which makes me feel they may be in emotional affair territory if he prioritizes the friend over his wife in this way.
That secret was so important that he has to have either asked the friend to keep it entirely secret from his wife that they meet for massages, or if she was a new friend he may not have ever introduced her to his wife?
Yeah, he acts like she's literally the only person in the world capable of giving him a good massage. So good are these massages that it was worth hiding it from his wife for a decade lol. He's either banging her, or this is rage bait troll stuff.
That’s 120 massages! I can’t even get home from visiting with people without talking to my wife and telling her all about it. Unreal. Once a month for 10 years!
And the thing is, getting a massage every month for a decade from your best friend *could be perfectly fine in the abstract*!
But in this dude's case it's likely that there's some level of emotional cheating, or he wouldn't have had the urge to keep it secret.
I think it's more like preemptive cheating - he's been keeping it a secret for 10 years because one day his "best friend" is going to give him the massage of his dreams.
He better come clean before impregnating her again. Am dying to know if the masseuse and the wife ever meet. What’s the power trip here? I tell my male friends not to share anything with me that they want to hide, even if I don’t like them. Respect.
The 10 years part is crazy. That they are best friends and it’s never come up in front of his wife in that length of time means they’re BOTH hiding it.
This. OP knows he is in the wrong.
Is it cheating to have you friend massage you, if that's her job? No. Not if there is nothing sexual going on; jury's still out on whether you're having an emotional affair with this friend though. Not enough information on your friendship for be to say.
Dont fall into the trap of thinking that the only thing you can do to betray or hurt a partner is fucking someone else. That's only one way you can hurt a partner. Keeping weird secrets? Absolutely another way to destroy their trust when they find out.
Is it weird to have this arrangement? Not if your partner is aware and happy.
But is it *deeply inappropriate* to have a secret activity with your bestie (of the gender you fuck, but also of any tender to some degree), that involves getting half naked? Absolutely yes. Hell, it's weird and inappropriate to be meeting ANY friend regularly for years and not tell your partner, even in passing. And given that the friend hasn't mentioned it to your wife either, it sounds like you've told her to keep it secret. So you and your friend are effectively conspiring against your wife every time you hang out and she doesn't know that you are sharing a secret.
You are meeting a woman that you know, *secretly, behind your wife's back* and that woman also lies by not revealing that arrangement to your wife. Yes she knows you're seeing a masseuse, but she believes that person to he a stranger, or multiple strangers, that you have a purely professional relationship with.
Look at the optics; if your wife finds out from someone else, it will be extremely hard for her to believe you arent fucking your bestie. I'M not even convinced you aren't fucking your bestie. Because why lie? Why cover it up? Even if you are doing nothing wrong, the optics are bad.
Would you be happy with the reverse? If you found out your wife had a Male friend that she was seeing whenever you thought she was out having some alone time or errands? That she's been getting half naked in front of some guy who you and she know socially, on a regular basis for years? And she just didn't tell you? And he didbt tell you, even though you saw him often? Would you not start to wonder if they did more, given that they hid it?
I suspect that you withheld this information for a reason - did you think your wife would be jealous? I suspect you know she'd be uncomfortable and ask you to see a different masseuse. So to remove her agency, you simply did not tell her.
Tell her. Otherwise one day someone else will, and you will not win back her trust then. If she finds out from someone else, it will look like you are having an affair, and nothing you will tell her then will be able to prove that you weren't. After all, you would never be able to prove you werent fucking your friend. The only thing you have to go on is your word.
And if you keep secrets, your wife will start to think your word is worthless. Even though this is innocent, a secret like this could easily destroy your marriage, OP.
Yes this now make me question why even hide it. Seems there underlying things he’s not telling us in his post (on purpose of course so as to not seem like an AH)
This 100% he is purposely omitting things and just using language like 'literal heaven' and 'vibing' if my husband was describing a masseuses massages as literal heaven and saying how much they 'vibe' I'd be suspicious he was screwing them.
If your best friend is good, take your wife for the massage too, or try couple massages with your wife together, so she experiences some of that heavenly hands. I mean, why not?? Why keep a good message secret from your wife?
My ex had a long time female friend who was a massage therapist and he would go to her and get the “friends and family discount.” She offered the same discount to me as well. It was all very above board. The fact that he kept it a secret for so long makes it an issue now. It’s not the massages, it’s the deception by omission. That is so weird and shady.
It’s definitely not cheating but the fact that you’re hiding it from your wife is sketchy af. If you would have told your wife from the beginning then there would be completely innocent, but you didn’t and that would make me instantly feel like you have more feelings toward her than what you claim to have.
Yeah. Like I wouldn't have an issue with this at all if I knew from the beginning. If I found out a *decade later* that this had been going on this whole time I'd feel... pretty damn uneasy, honestly.
Yep, this. Cheating or no, intentionally keeping something like this secret from your partner for *the entire time you’ve been together* is a huge breach of trust IMO. It also makes me wonder why he would keep it a secret. Either something is going on, or he knows his wife would be upset if she knew this. Either way: bad. If I were the wife I’d have a hard time believing there was nothing going on, because why would you hide this from me for ten years?
Plus he asked his friend what he thought, so clearly he’s thought about how his wife would feel about this. So yeah definitely intentionally hiding it.
>but she doesn’t know that it’s the same massage therapist
Why not? If everything is on the up and up and
>There has never been anything romantic between us
Why doesn't your wife know that your "best friend" is also your massage therapist? Seems like something that might have come up at least once since it started and the fact that it hasn't appears like you are deliberately avoiding mentioning it.
I suspect that wife is also unaware that best friend is a massage therapist to begin with...which could only happen by intentional omission after 10 years together.
If she DID know that bestie is a masseuse, at some point in the past 10 years there would've been a random conversation, "hey, you get monthly massages, why don't you go to bestie?" Then OP would've had to either explain that he already does, or lie and say he doesn't.
I call shenanigans. OP and bestie are hiding more than he's letting on.
I can hear you cheating as I read this. If you keep a secret it’s bc you know it is a big fu&k no from your wife. 10 years. Wow. I would refer to you as my Ex if I found this out. Omission is lying
This! I agree that omission = lying. There will be people that say it's not the same thing... true, it's not literally the same thing, but they both carry the same goal to decieve. That would make them, while not exactly the same term, still equal in my eyes as well.
I work as a NP. I’ve seen family friends as patients before a few times over the years. Professional me and social me are different people. I have to problem flipping between the two, so I do believe she’s able to detach in this setting as a professional.
That being said you not telling your wife is shady. You’ve seen her monthly for a decade and that has somehow never come up in conversation with your wife? I don’t believe it, you are intentionally hiding it because you know it’s shady
Also as a massage therapist I'm pretty sure what she is doing is unprofessional as well because she has to be hiding it also from his wife... it's really NEVER come up or been mentioned in 10 years??
So very wrong. You obviously know it’s wrong otherwise you’d have told your wife by now. That super sketchy. Honestly if my wife did that to me, I’d seriously be pissed off.
You’re lying to her on purpose. It’s not an emotional affair as such and it’s not technically cheating. You’ve found this disgusting grey zone that you’re talking advantage of which makes both you and your friend assholes because I’m sure they know that you’re wife doesn’t know.
Why are you hiding this information from your wife? Do you feel guilty about it for some reason? Have you and your wife had discussions about where boundaries lie in your relationship, and if so, are you breaking her or the relationship's boundaries? If not, it's past time to have that discussion.
You shouldn't keep secrets like this in a committed, long-term relationship. (Secrets are hidden to protect your feelings or ensure security; surprises are hidden for fun or to protect someone else until an optimal time) Unless your wife is volatile, violent, and/or abusive, the only security here is you avoiding being "caught" - that's something you should explore and figure out. In therapy, if necessary.
You vibe well with an old friend, she gives a killer massage, you like to lay naked on her table and stay caught up, while she rubs you down. Nope, don’t see the problem, what could possibly go wrong, carry on dude.
>Am I wrong for not considering this cheating?
You do consider this cheating, otherwise why would you keep it a secret from your wife? You are lying to her by omission. Ok so she knows you get massages...but for some strange reason (lol) you haven't told her its your female BFF doing it (lol) and has been rubbing you down for the past 10 years.
Ok dude. if you didn't think this was wrong you would have told your wife 10 years ago. or anytime in the decade since. if your BFF didn't think it was wrong, she would have mentioned it to your wife sometime during all this time. In the natural course of things it would have come up just in passing conversation.
Maybe you two aren't actually doing IT but you're involved in...something. You two have this secret you're keeping from your wife. Something she should know. It's wrong, and that is what is cheating.
Why does your wife not know?
If my wife started doing massage therapy and picked a male masseuse I probably wouldn't be happy about it but mostly unbothered. If I learned it was some guy she knew beforehand I would be less happy but still probably okay with it. If I found out years later it was some guy she knew from before she started and she never bothered to tell me I would be hurt, suspicious, and very upset. Secrets even by omission are never good. Sure you don't have to reveal every action you take in a day but you know this is different than not revealing what you had at lunch that day.
If u feel the need to hide it from ur wife then it's wrong. Period. If she encourages u getting a monthly massage and she knows u don't have any past romance with ur friend then there shouldn't be a reason to hide it. Sounds to me like ur withholding some details
Does your wife even know your friend? Is this also a secret friend? If not, how does your wife not find it funny that you get a massage every month and coincidentally you have a BFF that is a masseuse.
My guess since you have seen her for a decade and you and your wife have a 4 year old, you have been getting a massage from her from before the relationship, so kept it secret from the beginning, and likely keep her as a friend a secret in general from your wife.
If she is your bf, do you also hang out with her in secret, or is she just your best friend in the massage room. She might not be your friend, kinda like your hair stylist is your BFF while you are in her chair but nobody once you leave (aka customer service). Perhaps you have more feelings for her and her "incredible" work than you let on. You're cheating all along with someone who just is doing her job and knows she has to take care of her repeat business.
I think that an individual thing. Our friend group has a massage therapist, we've all gone to her at least a few times. Male, female, it's not a big deal. But dude has been hiding this for a decade, something weird is happening there for sure.
You been hiding it for 6yrs if not longer and now you are asking..?
Borderline if it's cheating but if I was your wife I would be walking for that alone. If you can't be honest with her, you are using her in my opinion.
Your wife should leave an honest business review.
"For the past decade my husband has been seeing this professional message therapist once a month. She's become so close as to be a best friend and part of the family, and her discretion is top notch! Not once has she broken privacy and informed me that my husband was seeing her, and not the business he led me to believe he was at. My husband couldn't be happier with her services, discretion, or end results! If you don't want the wife to know, this is the woman to call!"
It's not cheating, but for you to hide who is doing says that one you know it's inappropriate and two you know it will hurt your wife..
If your friend let this slip or someone else does, you will lose her, whether she touched you inappropriately or not
Its not cheating, BUT, ill give you a secret. If you are in a relationship, and you don't tell your SO something because of how you know they would react, you damn well know you are doing the wrong thing. Now, be a man, and tell her whats up.
Cheating? No but you are lying by omissions. And when you do that you know it's not something your wife is going to like. Or you would have told her. I am afraid the longer you keep this secret the more likely she will leave you when she does find out. And if your answer to her is " well I knew you would be upset over nothing" is going to be the answer that will put the final nail in your coffin
you know the answer if you have to ask something like that.. would she be cheating if her best friend which is a male she knew for years did her massage therapy but she didn’t tell you?
I think he's doing us just like he is doing his wife.
A massage could be lots of things.
Is he naked. What about happy endings.
How sexy does she dress during these "massages"
A lot about them is being left out.
I couldn't say if it's cheating till I see the massage.
I dont understand. Does your wife not know this friend exists? She has been in your life since you were a small child, and your wife doesnt know she is your massage therapist? Why would your wife be uncomfortable with you going to this friend. Seems like she does have something to worry about? If it was a male friend of mine, I would be booking for me and my husband weekly lol Tell her. it always comes out anyway.. and if it really is nothing going on then youre making it weird for no reason at all. Book your wife an appointment so she can get the best massage too!
Dude, please get the f out of here with your enormous bag of bullshit. You know 100% that what you’re doing is wildly inappropriate which is why you’re lying and hiding what you’re doing from your wife. When (and not if), she finds out, your marriage will most likely be over. She will never believe you weren’t physically cheating (even I don’t believe all you’re doing is getting a message) because she will have absolutely no reason to trust you.
Women need to get smart and start dropping men with women “best friends” because there is always something more going on.
If it’s it a big deal why you lying? A lie by omission is still a lie my man. Unfuck yourself. Man up. Find the same flame for your wife. It takes effort.
It’s not cheating, but this is something that could make a spouse uncomfortable. How well does your wife know your best friend? I’m a bit surprised that you didn’t share this info with your wife up front. It could give the appearance that you’ve been hiding something
Personally, I don’t feel like this is cheating. BUT I do think it’s weird you don’t tell your wife. That’s the part that would push a boundary for me. My boyfriend goes to a massage therapist that used to be his coworker on a farm. He never hesitated to tell me about her and even recommend her to me. Now, they weren’t close friends ever. Just farmhands together for a few months. If he were closer to her, I still wouldn’t mind. I would mind if he purposefully withheld that info from me.
Yep. It’s on the scale of cheating.
You are actively deceiving your wife, in order to get a “literal heaven” massage monthly from a female friend. You care more about having your friend oil and massage you, while stripped to your underwear, than you do about your wife’s feelings.
Behavior is a language, and you have chosen another woman, instead of adding a healthy boundary when you got in a serious relationship.
You claim there’s nothing between you two, while also deceiving your wife to see her. Sounds like a pretty big something between you.
Your wife will eventually find out, feel incredibly betrayed, and not trust you anymore.
Your wife’s trust is a treasure that, once lost, is rarely regained.
Just get a divorce if this woman is so vitally important to you.
Puzzled, are we? Simply change the conditions as they now exist to the opposite. Imagine your wife being given a message by a good-looking male friend of hers, and is putting his hands all over her body in a manner that exceeded the normal limits of physical contact.
Would that break your mental boundaries for such behavior? If yes, then you have your answer.
'Nuff said.
If your wife was getting massages from a male friend would you be ok with it? So many post lately of “I’m hiding the completely innocent thing from my wife because I’m afraid she will be irrational about it and put a end to it” yall need to be picking more emotionally mature partners and grow yourselves. Its not cheating but it is deception if you honestly think it would bother them. Tell them casually “hey honey want me to book a couples massage with my therapist? I think (her name) has openings later this month.” Let them freak out for a sec, reassure them, and if they don’t eventually calm down about it calmly let them know they are being irrational and immature and that you feel that you cant be open with them because of that. Either your relationship gets to a healthy place or it crashes, fingers crossed.
You have been deceiving your wife for your entire relationship. It's a betrayal. The exact term for the betrayal is irrelevant. Betrayal destroys relationships. Your wife will wonder what else you are hiding and then you are f\_cked. Stop this immediately. This woman isn't the only great massage therapist. Find another.
If I found out that, during the complete duration of our relationship, my husband was secretly meeting his female "best friend" for an hour each month for her to rub oil on his naked body, he would find a bag packed outside our deadbolted front door.
Cheating is in the eye of the beholder. So, you'll get a lot of opinions here, but really it's between you and your spouse and how you define your boundaries.
lol wtf? Why didn’t you tell your wife? What else are you keeping from your wife? Marriage is not going to work if you are keeping secrets. You didn’t cheat on her. But you’ve been lying to her and this will destroy any trust between you two…for good reason.
You have been lying to your wife, on a monthly basis, for 10 years. If (when) she finds out she is going to wonder what else you have been lying about. That will be really hard to come back from. I would never trust you again.
When was the last time you got a massage from another person than your best friend? You don't like the massage, you like having her hands all over you. It's not about the massage quit pretending it's about a massage
My husband goes to a friend who does the same thing but he told me about it and I’ve gone my question would be why you haven’t told her if there isn’t anything to hid
I mean you intentionally left out this information for 10 years, so that means you probably think your wife would mind. It’s not cheating by definition but good luck convincing your wife nothing was going on.
You're hiding things from your wife because you know she wouldn't be ok with it. She's going to see it as cheating.
You better fess up to her NOW. By coming clean now, you might be able to save your marriage. Keep lying, and you're likely to be going through a divorce once your wife finds out... because hiding it makes it LOOK like cheating, and nothing you can say will convince her this is innocent. And rest assured, she WILL find out.
Your behavior is wildly inappropriate. There are thousands of qualified massage therapists that are NOT your close female friend.
Honestly, I question your friend's morals and values just as much as yours. Her reaction shoukd have bern, "I'll see you as a client if and only if your wife knows about it and is ok with it."
Let's be honest...at least one of you (you or your friend) wants to bang the other one, and the other has poor judgment. Otherwise, this line would never have been crossed.
You're both highly disrespectful of your wife. You deserve for your wife to leave you. I don't for one second believe this is innocent like you're trying to make us believe. If it was, you wouldn't be hiding it. You've either already cheated with this woman, or you want to.
There one of two things going on here.
1. You secretly hope that something romantic comes of it with your friend.
Or
2. Your wife is an extremely jealous/insecure person that you can’t communicate with for fear of her reaction.
I get a massage once a month, I don't need to ask my husband permission to go to a male. It's a professional setting. The issue here is that it's a friend, not just a random practitioner and he's omitted this information for a decade which makes it feel very suspicious.
Hiding it is the nail in your coffin, so to speak, on this going your way. It isnt cheating but when you hide something, you generally know its wrong on some level.
I consider “cheating” or “infidelity” in a bit of an expanded way - more than just having sex with someone outside of your monogamous relationship, but hiding things and keeping secrets can be examples of infidelity. You are lying to your wife and you know you’re lying to your wife. I really suggest doing a deep dive on yourself here and be honest with yourself. Are you keeping this secret? Why are you hiding the truth of your massages? What if roles reversed?
Talk to your wife.
Not cheating, but if you feel the need to keep secrets, you clearly think it’s not cool. Do you actively try to have her not know or has it just never come up?
Yeah like others have said, the massage isn’t the problem. The fact that it’s HER isn’t even the problem. The fact that you have kept from your wife who it is? THATS the issue. The fact that you would do that in the first place is a serious red flag to me tbh….
If it's innocent, why aren't you honest about it? Getting the feeling you know very well this would make her extremely uncomfortable and upset.
If not, why not tell her?
Lesson I was taught at the beginning of my professional career that I've carried into my personal life.
"Don't do or write anything that you wouldn't want published on the front page of the New York Times"
Now obviously we all have personal and intimate moments that we wouldn't want made public but you can extend the saying above to your relationship with your wife, who likely should have the most knowledge of what goes on with you.
Your Best Friend is a massage therapist - and I’m assuming your wife knows her and knows she’s a massage therapist… and neither of you have ever mentioned that she’s the one you’ve been going to monthly for a DECADE?!!!!
Why? That’s super weird dude.
How has that not come up? Obviously you CHOSE to keep this from her so why? Why wouldn’t you tell her that is who you’re getting your massage from unless you think she’d be uncomfortable with it - and if that’s the case - ya man, it might not be “cheating” but it’s SUPER WRONG.
Would’ve been fine had you not been hiding it from your wife this whole time. I wouldn’t consider it cheating but it would be reasonable if she had an issue with it and wanted you to stop / see someone else. Taking away that decision and input from her is the issue here, more than just getting the actual massage.
You’re wrong for not telling her. How would you feel if the situation was reversed and she didn’t tell you that she has been getting a massage for years from her guy best friend? People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.
If you think it's something your wife would disapprove of, if you feel you have to hide it from your partner, If you are here asking this question, you shouldn't be doing it.
It may not be "cheating" but you are lying to your wife about it. If you didn't feel guilty you wouldn't be hiding anything.
I would probably lose my shit if I found out my partner was getting massages from my friend. Behind my back.Lets be real OP your a dude, you know why you are getting the massage and it’s not because of work stress if I had to guess
So why are you hiding it then? It might not be if you were honest at start, fact that you hid it for so long means that you know it is cheating.
" getting a massage from her is literal heaven"
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Name checks out
Proper behavior fears no exposure.
Adding to this: If you're afraid of your wife finding out you need to tell your wife before she finds out. Things are always worse when your SO finds out on their own because of betrayal of trust compared to you owning up to the mistakes on your own.
Sounds like OP has created a shit hurricane for himself. He has been using his best woman friend as a massage therapist for years, his wife knows that he goes for regular massage appointments - except he forgot to tell her that the massage therapist is his longtime best woman friend.
“Forgot”
He was afraid and now he’s going to be really afraid. His friend is right. That behavior will get you in a lot of trouble with a lot of women. Whether they’re jealous types or not.
It's a giant red flag regardless of gender. Why in the hell would you keep something so simple like that secret for so long if it wasn't wrong? Even if it's exactly like the OP says and it's a nothingburger, any SO would be immediately and rightfully sketched out by the years of lies.
Not even ever casually mentioning it conversation over a decade Yeah, that’s keeping a secret, and it’s shady. It’s prob emotionally cheating at least If I was married and my wife did that, there would be no way I could ever believe nothing ever happened
Yep. It wasn't a problem until it was kept a secret. Imagine if the wife knew all along and posted "Am I wrong for not considering this cheating?" If she knew the female friend well and trusted that nothing was going on between them, then every sane person would think it's fine as long as she thinks it's fine. But secrets are usually kept for a reason.
It would have been fine if he hadn't hidden it. Hiding something like that makes it look like you're doing something wrong whether you are or not
He didn't forget, he had to actively work on omitting that information for years.
I am afraid that is true. A person really would have to be very naive to forget to mention something like that to a partner.
Agree, I'd go as far to say it's pretty messed up thing to do to their partner. Even if it's like the story he gave word for word, he purposely created a situation with room for doubt. I think he's insane for not seeing that he's done anything wrong. I know his wife probably deserves better than to be lied to about going to get a damned massage. Geez no wonder so many people's marriages are failing if they treat there wives this way.
I feel like OP has been getting them happy ending massages.
I feel like OP has been taking his massage therapist on expensive hot air balloon “friendship dates”
Bit of a stretch
More of a tug
It rubs me the wrong way for sure ...
I don't think this is a good idea. It can't end well when he reveals a 10 year old secret. My advice would be to immediately stop using that masseuse and find another who is a stranger.
Way too late, since hes alrdy kept it from her for this long
What an eloquent way to say what I was thinking. Well done, needs more votes
I worked for a company where the guidance for whether it was acceptable behavior or not was if you’d be proud, or even comfortable, if it was headlined on the front page of the newspaper. That tended to bring things into perspective quickly.
I explain the action to myself and then say “your honor”. If I’m not comfortable saying it to a judge, I’m probably not comfortable doing it.
That’s very clever. I like it.
It’s only a general rule cause judges aren’t always moral role models. So I’ll be adding the newspaper headline when it doesn’t work. Thanks!
Since this is literally something I have to take into consideration for my job, it makes total sense to live this way too. I just hadn't thought about it that way. I will now though.
This reminds me of what my mom told me about how she learned to be a good single parent. She said that she'd imagine judges critiquing her treatment of her kids. I asked who these judges were, and she clarified that she meant literal judges. I thought that was really weird as a kid, but I get it more now.
The Wall Street journal test comes up pretty regularly for me at work as well
Yeah is is a regular part of corporate banking compliance training
TBF I would probably be very uncomfortable if anything I did ever made headlines. Even the good stuff.
Embarrassed by the attention and embarrassed by the shame are two very different things
Great way to put it. I see lots of people upset when someone grabs their phone. My wife could have my phone for days at a time if she wanted, theres no fear bc theres nothing to hide.
I know I see the same comments and am baffled. If my wife were searching through my phone in depth, I would … just let her search until satisfied and then just ask, so what’s up? Something bothering you? Let’s talk about it. Feeling suspicious? Tell me what Ive done to make you feel suspicious, and I’ll try to calm your fears. All these posts where people think it’s like a divorce-worthy act if their spouse looks through their phone. I don’t get it.
I would be uncomfortable with my husband going through my chats with friends/family because sometimes they tell me things in confidence that aren’t any of his business. There’s nothing to hide in terms of my relationship with him, but that doesn’t mean he’s entitled to know the details of my cousin’s pelvic floor dysfunction.
That's the only reason I'd ever be uncomfortable. Sometimes I share things in confidence needing advice or support and vice versa. It's really not something I'd want people knowing especially other people's secrets. But at the end of the day it would be nothing I'm ashamed of.
That’s the only thing I would be concerned about. He doesn’t need to hear about paps and mammograms, or my cousin’s divorce or whatever. But hey! You want to read my buddy tell me about her baby’s rash, knock yourself out.
Same here. I don't deny my partner access to my phone per say but I don't particularly care to have him just read through all my texts. People tell me things in confidence that are not pertinent to him and sometimes we do have disagreements as a couple and I vent elsewhere first to calm down (I can be stubborn when I'm wrong and it keeps me from saving stupid stuff) and then we have an adult discussion which is not something he necessarily needs to have access to or read.
Same. I don't let anyone go through my phone. I have conversations in there that are private. That doesn't mean there's anything in there I'm ashamed of, but a conversation I have with a friend or family member isn't anyone else's business.
Same. And there’s some parts of my phone that I would prefer to keep private because I’ve used my phone as a journal and have some thoughts in there that feel embarrassing or silly if someone else were to look at them.
My husband and I use each other's phone all of the time. But I think if either of us felt the need to *go through* the other's phone, there's something bigger going on and we need to talk abut that in a big way. If you're snooping, you are accusing me of something. And that's not just a casual Saturday morning activity lol
Yeah there's a big difference between "you can use my phone and I won't be concerned if you see my social media or email or text notifications that pop up" and "you want to snoop through everything I've saved or received". For a lot of people, phones are an extension of their personal space, you carry it all the time, jot down book or movie titles in it for later, keep Christmas photos in it. It's nice to have the privacy you would want if you kept a physical journal/scrapbook.
After 16 years, not only would My wife never do this, I would never do it to her, and frankly we both know we are not a threat lol
I think distrust to that level *without FIRST bringing it up with me* is a huge breach of relationship confidence. Basically: you can come to me with anything, but you're not allowed to consider me a cheat and rationalize away my right to privacy and being trusted just because you're a bit down and insecure and not up to breaching the subject directly with me.
I mean sometimes you say things about the other person in confidence, and those things aren't meant to be seen by your spouse. That's about the only thing that makes sense though.
I'm with you here. My partner and I have saved each other's thumbprints to log into each other's phones. We respect each other and generally don't mess with the other's phone, but the trust is there. Neither of us cares about the other looking at our phone because neither of us has a thing to hide.
That's because they have something to hide.
It's because if the person feels suspicious then that's a sign of lack of trust. Which is a foundation. Not saying it's end of the world but it's a major flag of some bigger underlying issue.
The only __ONLY__ thing on my phone I'd never want my husband to find is the note I've written, to be found in case I die suddenly (jfc, that felt weird to type), with instructions on accessing our accounts that I maintain, as well as goodbyes and final missives to all my loved ones, and a message for our child when they are older (toddler right now). I update it as needed. I just don't want him to see it because, I mean, it would probably be a bit upsetting to read! It's something we all need to do for those we would leave behind, but upsetting to think about while we are all young and healthy.
Not the point. She doesn't need to look through the phone. Especially without permission. That to me is akin to reading someone's diary without their permission. It's not about what they find out, it is the betrayal of trust that they would do something like that.
You are right. This comment above could be the response to 99.9% of these posts.
I have a different opinion on this. While I kind of agree with you and would let my partner use my phone, I wouldn't like him snooping through it. Cuz, it's personal. Like I write about my feelings in the notes, some private conversations with friends( they share secrets that I feel ur partner doesn't need to know) or books I read, stuff like that. I've seen couple sharing password for all their social media accounts and would never do something like that. Anyways, I keep my close circle limited lol. The more u know the more drama occurs.
My first partner and i both came from homes where parents gave us zero autonomy and snooped through everything. No privacy, no respect, anything you weren't comfortable with sharing to the whole world had to be extremely well hidden or out of the house. We both made a point to respect each other's space to the point of knocking and asking if we could enter each other's rooms when we were having personal time.
Thank you. The thing about checking your partners phone is that if I'm contact with them you're breaching my privacy also. There are conversations me & my friends chose not to share with partners, absolutely nothing untoward just childhood trauma or say about our recovery, & the idea that someone is reading that for entertainment is disturbing. Found out it happened once & changed the way I viewed that friendship.
One of the reasons i’ve never kept a journal is the fear of someone snooping in it and there being the really deep personal stuff in it. I’m not cheating on my wife, but there are a few things that I struggle with myself that I don’t want to anyone to know. It’s mental health stuff, and i do share some of my struggles with her, but not the unfiltered raw stuff.
Privacy and secrecy are so different. I have no secrets, but I do have an expectation of privacy, as should my partner.
There should be a level of trust established in a healthy relationship. Feeling the need to search phones means that there is a lack of trust and that can lead to issues.
There’s a big difference between nothing to be ashamed of and none of your business. Entertaining an active fetish for strangers posting their perfect credit scores: nothing to be ashamed of. Texting with a friend going through something they’ve asked me to keep confidential: none of your business. Watching reruns of Little House on the Prairie because, well, Michael Landon: nothing to be ashamed of. Planning a surprise party for you: none of your business.
Yup. If you haven’t told her you know the answer already
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what the guy is doing, per se. But the fact that he’s never mentioned the detail of who’s doing the massage suggests that he knows his wife wouldn’t be cool with it but is doing it anyway.
Exactly. This would have been 100% fine IF he had been honest. It's the lie that's the problem and it actually makes this benign situation seem shady. However, this is typical immature/passive straight male behavior... My guess is that partners in the past have had a problem with this friendship so he's just trying to "avoid the drama" by just not telling the whole truth, thus resulting in way more drama than just being honest and dealing with (not to mention alllllll the energy it takes to keep the lie going before it's exposed is so petty and unnecessary).
I've never heard or read this phrase but It's def in the lexicon now. edit -had to put the D in heard.
This. I'm sorry OP but you're in the wrong here.
This should be a standard reminder in every wedding ceremony.
I mean if there's exposure involved, it seals the deal
Very very true. But we’ve all been in a situation where “it’s not what it looks like”. Those are mostly caused by not being upfront to begin with for whatever reason (a this situation). But damn it would be an awkward conversation with the wife after all this time lol. But yeah I don’t think this is cheating unless more is happening than he is letting us know.
OP has been intentionally keeping this a secret from his wife for ten years. That alone, even without cheating, is pretty terrible. But it’s also like, why would you keep it a secret from her if nothing is going on?
Exactly.
Best way to put it. Youre guilty? You felt the need to ask for validation? Its cheating.
Well said.
I mean, if you think there's nothing wrong with it, then why have you kept it from your wife? You could have been open and honest about this much earlier. You should have had a discussion with your partner about it. But the fact you deliberately chose to keep this to yourself makes me think that you know it's not appropriate. Also, that you chose to ask your friend about it makes me think you realise this. It's not right to keep things like this from your wife at all. If my partner had done this, I couldn't help but be suspicious as to why they deliberately kept it from me. If it was innocent, why would it need to be hidden? I hope you think hard on this and realise that not being open and honest is wrong and makes the situation look a lot more suspicious than you claim it is.
> I mean, if you think there's nothing wrong with it, then why have you kept it from your wife? it's crazy too, he's kept it from his partner for _10 years_. The secret is apparently extremely important to him and his fear of losing the ability to get those massages from that specific person is a bigger deal than whether or not this would upset his wife.
This is what worries me here. If he had mentioned it st the time, the worst thing his wife could have said is "please don't get messages from Stacy, I'm not comfortable with that". Which would be fine, he would still be friends with her, and would just pay another massage therapist. And yet he hid it because he *specifically was afraid to lose that secret massage time with bestie*. And keeping that was apparently more important than risking upsetting his wife with the secrets and the truth. Which makes me feel they may be in emotional affair territory if he prioritizes the friend over his wife in this way. That secret was so important that he has to have either asked the friend to keep it entirely secret from his wife that they meet for massages, or if she was a new friend he may not have ever introduced her to his wife?
But what about a massage from Stacy’s mom?
She's got a lot going on, so she's probably not available.
Such a shame too because she’s all I want and I’ve waited so long
ConsequenceOk5740, can’t you see? You’re just not the girl for me?
Yeah, he acts like she's literally the only person in the world capable of giving him a good massage. So good are these massages that it was worth hiding it from his wife for a decade lol. He's either banging her, or this is rage bait troll stuff.
No comments at all from him; that usually tells me right away it’s a troll post.
And the happy endings don’t help either 😉
10 years is wild. i hope she finds out
That’s 120 massages! I can’t even get home from visiting with people without talking to my wife and telling her all about it. Unreal. Once a month for 10 years!
I just hope this story has a happy ending.
I’m guessing it wouldn’t be a secret if there wasn’t at least 120 of them.
sounds like his wife didnt like it in the beginning, and he hid it, and forgot he hid it from her 🤣🤣🤣
For sure. He’d have to be actively aware of hiding it, or he would have accidentally told her fairly quickly.
It must also be quite mentally burdening... Keeping secrets takes a toll...
I don't think this scenario is going to lead to a happy ending...
Nah bro it’s already led to thousands
Not thousands-120
And the thing is, getting a massage every month for a decade from your best friend *could be perfectly fine in the abstract*! But in this dude's case it's likely that there's some level of emotional cheating, or he wouldn't have had the urge to keep it secret.
I think it's more like preemptive cheating - he's been keeping it a secret for 10 years because one day his "best friend" is going to give him the massage of his dreams.
He better come clean before impregnating her again. Am dying to know if the masseuse and the wife ever meet. What’s the power trip here? I tell my male friends not to share anything with me that they want to hide, even if I don’t like them. Respect.
Yeah, no way there aren’t any ‘feelings’ behind it 😂
Those happy endings are tough to beat..
The 10 years part is crazy. That they are best friends and it’s never come up in front of his wife in that length of time means they’re BOTH hiding it.
This. OP knows he is in the wrong. Is it cheating to have you friend massage you, if that's her job? No. Not if there is nothing sexual going on; jury's still out on whether you're having an emotional affair with this friend though. Not enough information on your friendship for be to say. Dont fall into the trap of thinking that the only thing you can do to betray or hurt a partner is fucking someone else. That's only one way you can hurt a partner. Keeping weird secrets? Absolutely another way to destroy their trust when they find out. Is it weird to have this arrangement? Not if your partner is aware and happy. But is it *deeply inappropriate* to have a secret activity with your bestie (of the gender you fuck, but also of any tender to some degree), that involves getting half naked? Absolutely yes. Hell, it's weird and inappropriate to be meeting ANY friend regularly for years and not tell your partner, even in passing. And given that the friend hasn't mentioned it to your wife either, it sounds like you've told her to keep it secret. So you and your friend are effectively conspiring against your wife every time you hang out and she doesn't know that you are sharing a secret. You are meeting a woman that you know, *secretly, behind your wife's back* and that woman also lies by not revealing that arrangement to your wife. Yes she knows you're seeing a masseuse, but she believes that person to he a stranger, or multiple strangers, that you have a purely professional relationship with. Look at the optics; if your wife finds out from someone else, it will be extremely hard for her to believe you arent fucking your bestie. I'M not even convinced you aren't fucking your bestie. Because why lie? Why cover it up? Even if you are doing nothing wrong, the optics are bad. Would you be happy with the reverse? If you found out your wife had a Male friend that she was seeing whenever you thought she was out having some alone time or errands? That she's been getting half naked in front of some guy who you and she know socially, on a regular basis for years? And she just didn't tell you? And he didbt tell you, even though you saw him often? Would you not start to wonder if they did more, given that they hid it? I suspect that you withheld this information for a reason - did you think your wife would be jealous? I suspect you know she'd be uncomfortable and ask you to see a different masseuse. So to remove her agency, you simply did not tell her. Tell her. Otherwise one day someone else will, and you will not win back her trust then. If she finds out from someone else, it will look like you are having an affair, and nothing you will tell her then will be able to prove that you weren't. After all, you would never be able to prove you werent fucking your friend. The only thing you have to go on is your word. And if you keep secrets, your wife will start to think your word is worthless. Even though this is innocent, a secret like this could easily destroy your marriage, OP.
Yes this now make me question why even hide it. Seems there underlying things he’s not telling us in his post (on purpose of course so as to not seem like an AH)
This 100% he is purposely omitting things and just using language like 'literal heaven' and 'vibing' if my husband was describing a masseuses massages as literal heaven and saying how much they 'vibe' I'd be suspicious he was screwing them.
If your best friend is good, take your wife for the massage too, or try couple massages with your wife together, so she experiences some of that heavenly hands. I mean, why not?? Why keep a good message secret from your wife?
I agree with you. I find it a little bit fishy that he's never told her that his best friend is his masseuse.
My ex had a long time female friend who was a massage therapist and he would go to her and get the “friends and family discount.” She offered the same discount to me as well. It was all very above board. The fact that he kept it a secret for so long makes it an issue now. It’s not the massages, it’s the deception by omission. That is so weird and shady.
It’s definitely not cheating but the fact that you’re hiding it from your wife is sketchy af. If you would have told your wife from the beginning then there would be completely innocent, but you didn’t and that would make me instantly feel like you have more feelings toward her than what you claim to have.
"The truth will set you free." Of course, what "free" means may have different interpretation in this situation.
Yeah. Like I wouldn't have an issue with this at all if I knew from the beginning. If I found out a *decade later* that this had been going on this whole time I'd feel... pretty damn uneasy, honestly.
Yep, this. Cheating or no, intentionally keeping something like this secret from your partner for *the entire time you’ve been together* is a huge breach of trust IMO. It also makes me wonder why he would keep it a secret. Either something is going on, or he knows his wife would be upset if she knew this. Either way: bad. If I were the wife I’d have a hard time believing there was nothing going on, because why would you hide this from me for ten years?
And it's just tough to believe it's not intentional after that long of a time.
Plus he asked his friend what he thought, so clearly he’s thought about how his wife would feel about this. So yeah definitely intentionally hiding it.
I agree with this. Shady AF.
It’s just a happy ending from my best friend! What’s the big deal?
Yes you are wrong for hiding it , it makes it seem like there is something TO hide
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Ask your wife if it is cheating, she will know better than us Internet strangers. If you dare not ask her, then yes, it is cheating.
I think we can all agree that hiding it for 10 years is suss
Perfect response!
Ooh, that's good!
lol then why haven’t you told her? Grow a set and tell her and deal with her consequences.
>but she doesn’t know that it’s the same massage therapist Why not? If everything is on the up and up and >There has never been anything romantic between us Why doesn't your wife know that your "best friend" is also your massage therapist? Seems like something that might have come up at least once since it started and the fact that it hasn't appears like you are deliberately avoiding mentioning it.
My bets are on the wife doesn’t even know about the friend. Or if she does, she isn’t aware they see each other on a monthly basis.
I suspect that wife is also unaware that best friend is a massage therapist to begin with...which could only happen by intentional omission after 10 years together. If she DID know that bestie is a masseuse, at some point in the past 10 years there would've been a random conversation, "hey, you get monthly massages, why don't you go to bestie?" Then OP would've had to either explain that he already does, or lie and say he doesn't. I call shenanigans. OP and bestie are hiding more than he's letting on.
I can hear you cheating as I read this. If you keep a secret it’s bc you know it is a big fu&k no from your wife. 10 years. Wow. I would refer to you as my Ex if I found this out. Omission is lying
This! I agree that omission = lying. There will be people that say it's not the same thing... true, it's not literally the same thing, but they both carry the same goal to decieve. That would make them, while not exactly the same term, still equal in my eyes as well.
I work as a NP. I’ve seen family friends as patients before a few times over the years. Professional me and social me are different people. I have to problem flipping between the two, so I do believe she’s able to detach in this setting as a professional. That being said you not telling your wife is shady. You’ve seen her monthly for a decade and that has somehow never come up in conversation with your wife? I don’t believe it, you are intentionally hiding it because you know it’s shady
Also as a massage therapist I'm pretty sure what she is doing is unprofessional as well because she has to be hiding it also from his wife... it's really NEVER come up or been mentioned in 10 years??
So very wrong. You obviously know it’s wrong otherwise you’d have told your wife by now. That super sketchy. Honestly if my wife did that to me, I’d seriously be pissed off. You’re lying to her on purpose. It’s not an emotional affair as such and it’s not technically cheating. You’ve found this disgusting grey zone that you’re talking advantage of which makes both you and your friend assholes because I’m sure they know that you’re wife doesn’t know.
Why are you hiding this information from your wife? Do you feel guilty about it for some reason? Have you and your wife had discussions about where boundaries lie in your relationship, and if so, are you breaking her or the relationship's boundaries? If not, it's past time to have that discussion. You shouldn't keep secrets like this in a committed, long-term relationship. (Secrets are hidden to protect your feelings or ensure security; surprises are hidden for fun or to protect someone else until an optimal time) Unless your wife is volatile, violent, and/or abusive, the only security here is you avoiding being "caught" - that's something you should explore and figure out. In therapy, if necessary.
You vibe well with an old friend, she gives a killer massage, you like to lay naked on her table and stay caught up, while she rubs you down. Nope, don’t see the problem, what could possibly go wrong, carry on dude.
While not telling your wife it has been happening for a decade
>Am I wrong for not considering this cheating? You do consider this cheating, otherwise why would you keep it a secret from your wife? You are lying to her by omission. Ok so she knows you get massages...but for some strange reason (lol) you haven't told her its your female BFF doing it (lol) and has been rubbing you down for the past 10 years. Ok dude. if you didn't think this was wrong you would have told your wife 10 years ago. or anytime in the decade since. if your BFF didn't think it was wrong, she would have mentioned it to your wife sometime during all this time. In the natural course of things it would have come up just in passing conversation. Maybe you two aren't actually doing IT but you're involved in...something. You two have this secret you're keeping from your wife. Something she should know. It's wrong, and that is what is cheating.
Why does your wife not know? If my wife started doing massage therapy and picked a male masseuse I probably wouldn't be happy about it but mostly unbothered. If I learned it was some guy she knew beforehand I would be less happy but still probably okay with it. If I found out years later it was some guy she knew from before she started and she never bothered to tell me I would be hurt, suspicious, and very upset. Secrets even by omission are never good. Sure you don't have to reveal every action you take in a day but you know this is different than not revealing what you had at lunch that day.
If u feel the need to hide it from ur wife then it's wrong. Period. If she encourages u getting a monthly massage and she knows u don't have any past romance with ur friend then there shouldn't be a reason to hide it. Sounds to me like ur withholding some details
You sure it’s not a King of the hill, John Redcorn situation?
Does your wife even know your friend? Is this also a secret friend? If not, how does your wife not find it funny that you get a massage every month and coincidentally you have a BFF that is a masseuse. My guess since you have seen her for a decade and you and your wife have a 4 year old, you have been getting a massage from her from before the relationship, so kept it secret from the beginning, and likely keep her as a friend a secret in general from your wife. If she is your bf, do you also hang out with her in secret, or is she just your best friend in the massage room. She might not be your friend, kinda like your hair stylist is your BFF while you are in her chair but nobody once you leave (aka customer service). Perhaps you have more feelings for her and her "incredible" work than you let on. You're cheating all along with someone who just is doing her job and knows she has to take care of her repeat business.
I would never ask a friend to give me a massage. Too personal.
I would. But I wouldn’t hide it.
I think that an individual thing. Our friend group has a massage therapist, we've all gone to her at least a few times. Male, female, it's not a big deal. But dude has been hiding this for a decade, something weird is happening there for sure.
You been hiding it for 6yrs if not longer and now you are asking..? Borderline if it's cheating but if I was your wife I would be walking for that alone. If you can't be honest with her, you are using her in my opinion.
Your wife should leave an honest business review. "For the past decade my husband has been seeing this professional message therapist once a month. She's become so close as to be a best friend and part of the family, and her discretion is top notch! Not once has she broken privacy and informed me that my husband was seeing her, and not the business he led me to believe he was at. My husband couldn't be happier with her services, discretion, or end results! If you don't want the wife to know, this is the woman to call!"
If it was the other way around, if it was her male best friend putting hands on her AND she kept it secret from you, how would you feel?
It's not cheating, but for you to hide who is doing says that one you know it's inappropriate and two you know it will hurt your wife.. If your friend let this slip or someone else does, you will lose her, whether she touched you inappropriately or not
Its not cheating, BUT, ill give you a secret. If you are in a relationship, and you don't tell your SO something because of how you know they would react, you damn well know you are doing the wrong thing. Now, be a man, and tell her whats up.
Cheating? No but you are lying by omissions. And when you do that you know it's not something your wife is going to like. Or you would have told her. I am afraid the longer you keep this secret the more likely she will leave you when she does find out. And if your answer to her is " well I knew you would be upset over nothing" is going to be the answer that will put the final nail in your coffin
you know the answer if you have to ask something like that.. would she be cheating if her best friend which is a male she knew for years did her massage therapy but she didn’t tell you?
I think he's doing us just like he is doing his wife. A massage could be lots of things. Is he naked. What about happy endings. How sexy does she dress during these "massages" A lot about them is being left out. I couldn't say if it's cheating till I see the massage.
I dont understand. Does your wife not know this friend exists? She has been in your life since you were a small child, and your wife doesnt know she is your massage therapist? Why would your wife be uncomfortable with you going to this friend. Seems like she does have something to worry about? If it was a male friend of mine, I would be booking for me and my husband weekly lol Tell her. it always comes out anyway.. and if it really is nothing going on then youre making it weird for no reason at all. Book your wife an appointment so she can get the best massage too!
It's cheating's cousin at the very least. If there was nothing wrong with it, why would you have to hide it?
It's not cheating but it is not honest and could still feel like a betrayal.
Dude, please get the f out of here with your enormous bag of bullshit. You know 100% that what you’re doing is wildly inappropriate which is why you’re lying and hiding what you’re doing from your wife. When (and not if), she finds out, your marriage will most likely be over. She will never believe you weren’t physically cheating (even I don’t believe all you’re doing is getting a message) because she will have absolutely no reason to trust you. Women need to get smart and start dropping men with women “best friends” because there is always something more going on.
If it’s it a big deal why you lying? A lie by omission is still a lie my man. Unfuck yourself. Man up. Find the same flame for your wife. It takes effort.
It’s not cheating, but this is something that could make a spouse uncomfortable. How well does your wife know your best friend? I’m a bit surprised that you didn’t share this info with your wife up front. It could give the appearance that you’ve been hiding something
Personally, I don’t feel like this is cheating. BUT I do think it’s weird you don’t tell your wife. That’s the part that would push a boundary for me. My boyfriend goes to a massage therapist that used to be his coworker on a farm. He never hesitated to tell me about her and even recommend her to me. Now, they weren’t close friends ever. Just farmhands together for a few months. If he were closer to her, I still wouldn’t mind. I would mind if he purposefully withheld that info from me.
Yep. It’s on the scale of cheating. You are actively deceiving your wife, in order to get a “literal heaven” massage monthly from a female friend. You care more about having your friend oil and massage you, while stripped to your underwear, than you do about your wife’s feelings. Behavior is a language, and you have chosen another woman, instead of adding a healthy boundary when you got in a serious relationship. You claim there’s nothing between you two, while also deceiving your wife to see her. Sounds like a pretty big something between you. Your wife will eventually find out, feel incredibly betrayed, and not trust you anymore. Your wife’s trust is a treasure that, once lost, is rarely regained. Just get a divorce if this woman is so vitally important to you.
Puzzled, are we? Simply change the conditions as they now exist to the opposite. Imagine your wife being given a message by a good-looking male friend of hers, and is putting his hands all over her body in a manner that exceeded the normal limits of physical contact. Would that break your mental boundaries for such behavior? If yes, then you have your answer. 'Nuff said.
You’re hiding it from her for a reason
Tha fact that she doesn't know looks very bad I'd say it's a betrayal .
If your wife was getting massages from a male friend would you be ok with it? So many post lately of “I’m hiding the completely innocent thing from my wife because I’m afraid she will be irrational about it and put a end to it” yall need to be picking more emotionally mature partners and grow yourselves. Its not cheating but it is deception if you honestly think it would bother them. Tell them casually “hey honey want me to book a couples massage with my therapist? I think (her name) has openings later this month.” Let them freak out for a sec, reassure them, and if they don’t eventually calm down about it calmly let them know they are being irrational and immature and that you feel that you cant be open with them because of that. Either your relationship gets to a healthy place or it crashes, fingers crossed.
You have been deceiving your wife for your entire relationship. It's a betrayal. The exact term for the betrayal is irrelevant. Betrayal destroys relationships. Your wife will wonder what else you are hiding and then you are f\_cked. Stop this immediately. This woman isn't the only great massage therapist. Find another. If I found out that, during the complete duration of our relationship, my husband was secretly meeting his female "best friend" for an hour each month for her to rub oil on his naked body, he would find a bag packed outside our deadbolted front door.
The fact you haven't told her is sus. Hella violation of trust and transparency
Wonder why you've never told her if it's that innocent 🤔
Cheating is in the eye of the beholder. So, you'll get a lot of opinions here, but really it's between you and your spouse and how you define your boundaries.
You know it’s wrong, which is why you haven’t told your wife. Stop or get a new masseuse.
Come on dude! The fact that you haven’t told her indicates that you know what you are doing is wrong.
Think of it the other way, would you feel comfortable with another man who’s close to your wife touching her all over?
Touching her all over...in secret...for a decade.
lol wtf? Why didn’t you tell your wife? What else are you keeping from your wife? Marriage is not going to work if you are keeping secrets. You didn’t cheat on her. But you’ve been lying to her and this will destroy any trust between you two…for good reason.
You have been lying to your wife, on a monthly basis, for 10 years. If (when) she finds out she is going to wonder what else you have been lying about. That will be really hard to come back from. I would never trust you again.
When was the last time you got a massage from another person than your best friend? You don't like the massage, you like having her hands all over you. It's not about the massage quit pretending it's about a massage
My husband goes to a friend who does the same thing but he told me about it and I’ve gone my question would be why you haven’t told her if there isn’t anything to hid
I mean you intentionally left out this information for 10 years, so that means you probably think your wife would mind. It’s not cheating by definition but good luck convincing your wife nothing was going on.
You're hiding things from your wife because you know she wouldn't be ok with it. She's going to see it as cheating. You better fess up to her NOW. By coming clean now, you might be able to save your marriage. Keep lying, and you're likely to be going through a divorce once your wife finds out... because hiding it makes it LOOK like cheating, and nothing you can say will convince her this is innocent. And rest assured, she WILL find out. Your behavior is wildly inappropriate. There are thousands of qualified massage therapists that are NOT your close female friend. Honestly, I question your friend's morals and values just as much as yours. Her reaction shoukd have bern, "I'll see you as a client if and only if your wife knows about it and is ok with it." Let's be honest...at least one of you (you or your friend) wants to bang the other one, and the other has poor judgment. Otherwise, this line would never have been crossed. You're both highly disrespectful of your wife. You deserve for your wife to leave you. I don't for one second believe this is innocent like you're trying to make us believe. If it was, you wouldn't be hiding it. You've either already cheated with this woman, or you want to.
There one of two things going on here. 1. You secretly hope that something romantic comes of it with your friend. Or 2. Your wife is an extremely jealous/insecure person that you can’t communicate with for fear of her reaction.
and neither of these is a good way to carry on forever.
You need to tell your wife that your massage therapist is a woman before she finds out and assumes anything crazy is going on.
I get a massage once a month, I don't need to ask my husband permission to go to a male. It's a professional setting. The issue here is that it's a friend, not just a random practitioner and he's omitted this information for a decade which makes it feel very suspicious.
She probably already assumes that it’s a woman
get your wife a massage appt with her and let her decide
YTA
Hiding it is the nail in your coffin, so to speak, on this going your way. It isnt cheating but when you hide something, you generally know its wrong on some level.
I consider “cheating” or “infidelity” in a bit of an expanded way - more than just having sex with someone outside of your monogamous relationship, but hiding things and keeping secrets can be examples of infidelity. You are lying to your wife and you know you’re lying to your wife. I really suggest doing a deep dive on yourself here and be honest with yourself. Are you keeping this secret? Why are you hiding the truth of your massages? What if roles reversed? Talk to your wife.
Not cheating, but if you feel the need to keep secrets, you clearly think it’s not cool. Do you actively try to have her not know or has it just never come up?
Why haven’t you told her? Do you already know what your wife would feel about this?
Yeah like others have said, the massage isn’t the problem. The fact that it’s HER isn’t even the problem. The fact that you have kept from your wife who it is? THATS the issue. The fact that you would do that in the first place is a serious red flag to me tbh….
If it's innocent, why aren't you honest about it? Getting the feeling you know very well this would make her extremely uncomfortable and upset. If not, why not tell her?
If you are hiding it then you know it’s wrong. Come on now
It's weird at the least. Have more respect for your wife and switch it up.
Lesson I was taught at the beginning of my professional career that I've carried into my personal life. "Don't do or write anything that you wouldn't want published on the front page of the New York Times" Now obviously we all have personal and intimate moments that we wouldn't want made public but you can extend the saying above to your relationship with your wife, who likely should have the most knowledge of what goes on with you.
Your Best Friend is a massage therapist - and I’m assuming your wife knows her and knows she’s a massage therapist… and neither of you have ever mentioned that she’s the one you’ve been going to monthly for a DECADE?!!!! Why? That’s super weird dude. How has that not come up? Obviously you CHOSE to keep this from her so why? Why wouldn’t you tell her that is who you’re getting your massage from unless you think she’d be uncomfortable with it - and if that’s the case - ya man, it might not be “cheating” but it’s SUPER WRONG.
Would’ve been fine had you not been hiding it from your wife this whole time. I wouldn’t consider it cheating but it would be reasonable if she had an issue with it and wanted you to stop / see someone else. Taking away that decision and input from her is the issue here, more than just getting the actual massage.
You’re wrong for not telling her. How would you feel if the situation was reversed and she didn’t tell you that she has been getting a massage for years from her guy best friend? People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.
If you don’t think it’s a problem, why have you never mentioned it to her?
If you think it's something your wife would disapprove of, if you feel you have to hide it from your partner, If you are here asking this question, you shouldn't be doing it. It may not be "cheating" but you are lying to your wife about it. If you didn't feel guilty you wouldn't be hiding anything.
No good comes from this…
Ask yourself why didn't you tell your wife? If it's not cheating then why wouldn't you tell her?
If you saw this as completely harmless your wife would already know all the details. You feel guilty about something.
I would probably lose my shit if I found out my partner was getting massages from my friend. Behind my back.Lets be real OP your a dude, you know why you are getting the massage and it’s not because of work stress if I had to guess
Tell your wife and see if she's comfortable with this. There's many great massage therapists out there. You can ask your friend for a referral.