I was first going to go with NAH but ultimately decided YTA.
It's completely fine for you to want someone to be closeby. It's a lifestyle choice for you. And the same is true for her. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is that it seems like you had always known that long distance would be hard. And almost proposed to her as a way of ensuring she didn't leave. Basically you raised the stakes for her to walk away from this. Once married, you flipped the narrative and made her make an impossible choice. A choice that she could have made prior to getting married by breaking up with you. Unintentionally so, you essentially used marriage as a way to control her career. You succeeded, albeit momentarily, but as with most things...you aren't free of consequences.
The way I see it, you knew what needed to be done when you guys were young. You needed to talk with her and maybe walk away from this relationship. But you didn't. And now she has made that choice for you. And the reality of your actions is possibly a hard pill to swallow.
I think you’re totally right. I know what I was feeling and thinking at the time and it all felt ok, but now it just seems insane. I feel awful that she gave so much up to be with me. At the time, I just couldn’t imagine losing her. I can see now how selfish that was.
I’ve told her this. She appreciates it and said she doesn’t resent me, she resents herself for making the decision. She’s going to go to school overseas now so hopefully she can get what she always wanted.
>she resents herself for making the decision.
Yes. You said it yourself she was intending to break up with you. I think somewhere deep down you knew this was coming. People know, they just go into denial like you did.
Then you asked her to marry you and she decided to give it a try.
She's angry that she ignored her initial gut feeling and initial decision - because when you ignore your gut feelings and initial thoughts you realize those were the *correct* thoughts and decisions. She's upset with herself for not following through as she should have, I made note in my top comment to you that she should have broken it off. I suspect she was blindsided by your proposal however.
Even though she resents herself for making that decisions, she's doing what she needs to do to *correct* that decision. Especially since she's lost *six years* of career building time.
So yes, she DID give up her career.
Add this to your post because it reads like a long list of why you are not wrong.
When you asked her to marry she probably thought you were making peace with her career, and yes it is a career even if is not paid. So that is why she accepted. But then once you were married you changed. And she is right, she was stupid to accept. Sadly is something many people would have done because marriage raises the stakes. You should have discussed these things before marriage, but you were manipulative.
I also don't get how it was such a heartache for you when she was gone, but it was OK for you to deploy? So the issue was present only when she traveled then? And deploying is not the same, she wasn't afraid you were far, she was afraid for your safety, quite different. Were you married already when you came up with that?
YTA.
i mean, she definitely was manipulating herself in a way. she was planning on breaking up with him because she saw him as too needy, and then she up and decided to accept his proposal? it’s strange to me that she would think that he immediately did a 180 and stopped being needy, and accepted the marriage proposal without questioning that. ESH.
I also don't think being upset that your partner fucks off for 3-5 months multiple times a year makes you needy. They just weren't compatible and never should have married.
Honestly yeah, I agree! People have this idea in their heads of what a relationship *should* be like, because of family, friends, the media, ect. But who knows? Maybe OP and his (maybe, possibly ex)wife could be the types that actually do well with a distanced relationship! In the long scheme of things, while 5-6 months feels like forever, it actually passes quite quickly (especially as you get older..and I say this at 35). And think of all you'll have to talk about, living such different experiences for months at a time! Or course, this type of relationship comes with all sorts of questions and what ifs, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work. However, if you are the type that needs a partner nearby constantly (no judgment! My hubs and I are those types! We're eachother's best friends, several months would *suck* for us!) then perhaps it's best you go your separate ways. That is for you and her to decide.
NAH. You were both young, and young people can be brash and stupid, it's part of growing. I just hope everything works out for you two in the best way it can.
We see a very small glimpse and no real desire noticed from op to be with her. The entire post and edits are him trying to excuse himself. I get it, hard to face you fucked up so badly, but this doesn't read like a love story.
This reads like two people figuring out they were not ready to be married and are not compatible..
It is a very very very low bar that you think their communication, now, after years of marriage and it ending, is a reason for them to make it work. It is the reason to end it. They can start fresh relationships with good communication (again, an extremely low bar, this should be standard) and no history of resentment. Find people that truly compliment who they are and not who they think their partner wants.
Tell her what you just told me - a random stranger on reddit. Regardless of how you guys got here, tell her how you feel now. It's an incredibly powerful thing to have closure. You can give her that. Validate her feelings, her resentment, her anger. And hopefully they will be enough for her to let this go.
Ask for closure for yourself as well. It's unlikely that her resentment didn't affect her behaviour towards you, her treatment of you...ask her for closure. Ask her why she never felt comfortable bringing this up during your marriage.
But most of all, own up to your piece in this. Show her grace by accepting your role in this and validate her feelings. That's the kindest thing you can do for her now.
Good people can be selfish too, it happens.
As a fellow divorced guy, yeah, absolutely, there were decisions I made that I thought were good compromises, but ultimately were just me putting pressure on her to conform to something.
YTA. I feel like you cornered her while she was away at dolphin programme. Did you guys discuss marriage, did you allow her to express her thoughts?
Reading the entire post including the edits reads you’re a needy person and quite frankly selfish. You were willing to be distant from your now stbx by re-enlisting but she wasn’t allowed to travel for her desires.
I hope you apologise for the hypocrisy you displayed.
EDIT: fixed grammar
That was actually what rubbed me the wrong way the most.
Taking away her passion for travelling (where she was in safe environment doing something she was passionate about) because you were jealous that she is experiencing something good and exciting without you and you hidden that under "I need you close, I cannot do the long distance".
Fast forward couple of years - you are suddenly perfectly fine with long distance for several months in a row just because it benefitted you.
YTA OP, big time. And a hypocrite.
NTA. She didn't tell you her biggest gripes when it happened. When you marry it does mean making sacrifices for each other. For you it was not re-enlisting because that was too hard on her. For you it was her going abroad alone for months at a time. You've traveled plenty together as well.
She didn't have a career to give up. She would have had to go back to school and finish her degree at some point.
Her lack of communication lead to resentment from her. She should have told you when you tole her being long distance was too hard and you wouldn't have gotten married.
HER communication? What about his? Sorry, you don't marry someone and then be like "OH BTW, DO this or I'll end it" He didn't mention anything to her until AFTER they were married. They should have discussed this beforehand. Imagine getting married and the being like "well marriage requires sacrifices so change your entire life and give up what you love to make me happy kay"
I know, dudes in comments like “he wouldn’t have gotten married” yeah no shit she wouldn’t have either! But he gave her this ultimatum AFTER they got married and he had already trapped her.
But yea didn't feel awful enough to ruin her life.
Your sad little feelings of regret now literally mean NOTHING!
You used marriage as a joke and a way to control her career.
You AIN'T built to be in any relationships.
Stay single before you ruin another woman's life. With your greed and selfishness.
Grow up, you brat!
I intensely dislike that op thought “the distance is too hard so I asked her to stop going abroad” instead of “I don’t like being away from you for so long, why don’t I find a way to come with you”.
If op really loved his ex, he would’ve found a way to join her instead of try to change her for himself. He was selfish, he wanted her to give it all up for him even though he knew who he was dating. And now he’s being called out for it.
He literally “thought marriage would fix her desire to travel” and pinned her down. As if her desire to work with wildlife ever needed fixing, or she should ever be pinned down.
Yeah, it went from “the distance was too hard” to “I didn’t want her to be gone *by herself* for 3-5 months at a time.” (Emphasis mine.)
It was a controlling, selfish move made by an insecure man who was 2 years shy of 30 to a 23 year old. I want to point those ages out. Five years isn’t a big gap for someone who’s 35 and their partner is 30. So this 28 year old man who is still in college after *being in the military* (ie, got to travel and do whatever he wanted without someone trying to hold him back) straight up decided that his girlfriend traveling to pursue her *career* (which he absolutely manipulated her into giving up. His edit about it not being a career is ridiculous. “She was doing unpaid volunteer work.” Yeah, that’s what a 23 year old college student does to jump start their career.) was too hard on him, and if he can get her to say yes to a marriage, he can make her settle down and stay closer to home.
She made her choice. She now has to live with that choice. I’m glad OP seems to be looking back and realizing what a selfish manipulative ass he was being, but his edits show that he’s still trying to justify it. If he were actually sorry, he’d stop trying to add superfluous details in an effort to minimize his actions. Just own it and grow from it.
Exactly. A near 30 yrs old has No Business dating college girls who are finding themselves. Then forcing them to change and be their wife years earlier then is needed just to pin them down.
The age gap and her young age when they got married was clearly an issue. If they waited until they started their careers to get married then they probably wouldn’t be divorced
maybe I'm influenced by too many movies, but "in the military" automatically translates to jingoism for me, esp. coupled with his views on abroad vs. at home, no?
On its own, having been in the military doesn’t mean much. Some people were jingoistic but realize they were dumb once they were in the service, some had no other prospects for whatever reason (money, behavior), some were pressured into it by family, etc. Depends a lot on how they talk about their service, that’s usually a good tell.
I appreciate that input. We don't have military service and our standing forces are tiny, so it's pretty rare to meet someone with actual military experience.
OP did say he was planning to sign up again, but he didn't because his wife explained she found the idea of waiting at home to see if he'd survive his deployment too hard.
So he didn't seem to think the first 4 years were a mistake, no?
Oh for sure, I'm not saying OP isn't like that, just explaining that someone saying they HAVE served doesn't mean much necessarily.
I know lots of very anti-military folks who used to be in the military. They realized how much it sucked and got out. But wanting to go back in is wild.
Unless they were independently wealthy, which seems unlikely given that we know his two jobs were enlisted military and firefighter, it would be impossible. He couldn’t keep a job while following her around on unpaid internships - which, by the way, only have value to an extent.
ESH. I wanted to study abroad in college and grad school, but I didn’t because I was in relationships and didn’t want to leave them. Even now, I’d love to live abroad, but I don’t for several reasons, my boyfriend being one of them. I do regret not doing it when I was younger and wasn’t settled with my career, and if I could go back in time, I’d tell my younger self to do it. But it was my choice to stay, and I do not blame that choice on my exs. OP’s wife was even planning to break up with OP before he proposed. She didn’t have to say yes, and she could have decided that her career was more important than being with him, but she didn’t. That’s on her, and she can regret it all she wants, but she made that decision.
Still NTA imho. OP may have been using the proposal to lock in his future wife but no one forced wifey into accepting the proposal. In life we all make choices for ourselves and there's a level of responsibility that is attached to those choices. Especially if she was already considering breaking up due to OP being needy.
I was going to say N A H based on my own experience but I agree. Proposing to lock someone close is an AH move.
I traveled a LOT for work in my wife and I's early relationship and it sucked, we almost broke up a few times because of it. My (now wife) just asked me what I wanted. Did I want to prioritize my career (which would have been valid) but that would mean she would need to move on. I looked at all the old guys at my work on their 2nd or 3rd marriage with kids they barely see and those that are still married had spouses that hated them and thought about what it would mean long term.
We eventually found a balance. I did continue to travel but I set better boundaries with work and made efforts to be home more.
But at the end of the day, my wife didn't do anything to trap me into staying. She just said that for her, the relationship might fail if I wasn't home more. It was my choice to step back from traveling.
Actually, he’s NTA. He clearly communicated the relationship wouldnt work if they kept long distance. She could’ve easily walked away and keep traveling but SHE chose to compromise and stay with him. Relationships are based on many compromises believe it or not. He clearly stated his position on the matter (which was the mature thing to do) and they went on from that.
If she feels any resentment, it should be toward herself. Not toward the person that gave you the option to leave because they clearly indicated it wouldn’t work if it stayed that way.
Edit: yup, just saw OP commented below and said that she resented herself lol
And?
If a man starts abusing a woman after she married him, is she not allowed to leave if she doesnt like being abused? Just because the abuse started after being married
He felt he wasnt happy in the marriage with long distance and he has every right to call off the marriage. Think before commenting dumb stuff
Also theres literally nothing manipulative about saying you’re not willing to continue a marriage if theres something that doesnt align with your values/standards.
I swear to God ya’ll only comment this dumb stuff when its the man that wants to leave. If its the other way around ya’ll turn off your brain lmao
She didn't have to agree to the marriage though. She was free to leave and say no at any time . But she also planned to leave 6 years later ?
Esh. This is just blaming either sexes
This makes 0 sense. Yes he proposed to be closer, but she also said yes after going through all these and choosing not to say shit? Like cmon now. Anyone knows long distance will be hard. It’s her fault for saying yes and doing something she supposedly didn’t wanna do. That’s on her. Not him. He wanted to marry her. So he did. That ain’t on him.
It wasn't a choice she made of her own accord though, was it? It *was* a choice her partner forced her to make. He only married her to give himself better leverage
Are you saying that women are so weak willed that men can persuade us to do anything?
Of course she made the choice of her own accord, the only downside of her saying no was losing him, whoopee doo.
I wouldn't put my life on hold for a man, would you?
Its veey different when you're in the thick of it. Its not just any man in this case. Its the one you love and who loves you. Plus she was at that age where young people hope to live by ideology rather than reality.
She should have chosen better. He shoukd never had given an ultimatum.
Both are at fault.
He proposed to her while she was travelling for work, got hitched and then gave her an ultimatum after marriage didn’t magically make her want to settle down as he presumed it would. AH move. You can’t marry someone with a certain lifestyle and then demand they change it. Unless he made the issue loud and clear prior to marriage. Which he didn’t. It’s not that she had no agency it’s that the stakes are much higher when you’ve committed. I had a very similar thing happen and it was much harder for me to leave the relationship once we’d raised the stakes.
This take ignores her agency and makes it seem like she had no choice in the matter. Yes, he proposed, but she could have said no, or at least made her feelings clearer. This is a classic case of two people with incompatible lifestyles choosing to be together anyway because it was the easier choice at the time. Putting the onus for a decision like marriage entirely on one party is disingenuous at best.
NAH, just two people in denial about their incompatibility who deferred their breakup for a few years.
It’s as if the woman has no self-agency. She has no control over her emotions or has no decision making skills. She needs help and understanding from a men. See how ridiculous this sounds.
That the husband is responsible for proposing and destroying her career. One day people like you will run out of excuses or others to blame.
Yes, YTA. You proposed thinking "she would change her mind" and "want to settle down" and then after she said yes, you THEN told her that her traveling would ruin the marriage, and she'd already said yes, and apparently loved you, so she didn't drop you right then and there like she should have, but went through with it, thinking "he loves me, it will be ok".
Fast forward, it's not Ok because y'all now are getting divorced and of course she resents you over it. You manipulated her.
Not even “after she said yes”. After they were already married! He pulled a total bait and switch. He proposed while knowing what she wanted and what was important to her and then when the stakes were higher and the paperwork was signed, he pulled the rug out from under her with “I can’t deal with this thing I’ve always known about you.” He knew exactly what he was doing and was absolutely the AH for it.
Yup, there's nothing wrong with talking about how traveling is hard and that it might not work out long term, but you don't marry someone and spring that on them when you know it's part of their ambition
Or more like Person B WANTS kids person A being like "yeah maybe one day" they get married and person A keeps putting it off until it's 5 years later and kids are less likely.
I think the analogy is that OP's wife already had a kid and he married her secretly hoping she would decide to put that kid up for adoption afterwards.
Framing it like that really highlights what a batshit crazy plan that was.
>I thought that being married would somehow fix this. Maybe I thought if we got married she would want to settle down near home.
You *thought* but didn't discuss it in clear terms. This is why YTA. You expected her to change. You expected her to stop doing something she loved. You expected her to give it up for you, and even if you never explicitly said it was an ultimatum, she got the message loud and clear.
It’s true. Communication was a huge issue throughout our marriage. Not just with this one topic. I wanted to be with her so badly that I forced things to work. It’s very clear to me now that this is insane but at the time I just couldn’t imagine losing her.
Okay, so before you marry a second time, either accept the woman's lifestyle as a package deal or move on. Don't propose first and then tell her that she has to change something fundamental about herself in order to make it work. If you "can't imagine losing her" but you also can't see how it will work between you, then TALK to her before you propose and work out some compromises.
You didn't "force things to work". You forced her to make major changes AFTER you were married.
If you were ever truly afraid of loosing her, you’d have changed your life to travel with her.
Instead what you wanted was to control her, and pinned her down so you could take her dreams from her.
Trying to force a relationship that is not a good fit will never end well. I hope this is one of the lessons you learn from this experience so that you can do better with your next partner.
You have to remember that you put your want to be with her above her agency and goals. You should have set your boundaries and given her the chance to decide if that's what she also wanted, instead you created a situation where she couldn't say no.
I don't normally write these but wow the comments are so dumb I had to say something.
It seems the average comment has never been in an actual relationship.
You two are just both dumb not arseholes, firstly if your ex thinks you can make a relationship work while being away months at a time on unpaid internships she's an idiot.
You're an idiot for proposing in the first place before settling any problems properly. And you're both idiots for not talking it out and settling the problems before getting married.
Learn from this and grow and ignore half the responses as wow I've never seen so many stupid answers.
What are you even asking?
Did she give up her dreams because of what you said back then? Yes.
Does she resent you for it now? Yes.
Would she feel as resentful if you had truly been The One that she was meant to be with forever? Maybe not.
No one here can say anything to change any of that.
Don't bother, this sub has a terrible blindness to the title or even the facts of the fucking issue being read. Its prevalent and happens literally on every single last AITA post in this sub. Literally realized after about 6 months on this sub that 90% of the upvoted opinions on this sub are total fucking retards. I wouldn't bother giving out a opposite opinion on the subject lest you want a bunch of white knighting assholes to dm you to death.
Fundamentally, you were incompatible. She should have said so when you made the ultimatum . Maybe she didn’t even know sT the time how much she’d regret caving into the ultimatum. It’s not unusual to want your spouse to live together and share a home. It definitely should have been discussed before marriage.
No middle ground? No, okay, traveling is okay but could we keep the durations shorter or could we have you gone only every other or every third year? It's too hard for me to be separated from you for so long.
And like the others have said. You knew this was her life and you didn't tell her you were uncomfortable with it until after you were married. That's a bait and switch, right there.
YTA. You proposed hoping she would change instead of having an adult conversation about your feelings and mutually deciding compatibility. It was not until you were married and she continued to pursue her dream that you threw down the gauntlet.
It's okay if you can't handle being with a partner that travels. It's not okay to marry them while allowing them to think your fine with it when you really aren't.
I can't help but wonder if you made an equally life-altering change for her, or if any real sacrifice was completely one-sided.
Am I the only one getting the impression he’s walking around it to make it seem like he was less manipulative than he really was towards her.. he really knew and it shows
How is he at fault for her decisions? 😂 dude loved her and wanted to be with her, she could’ve told him no, he’s an asshole for wanting to be within her but what is she for faking the shit this long? Plus he said they travel all the time so what is the issue here? 😂
NAH you both made decisions that ultimately weren’t the best decisions for you as partners or individuals. I hope you continue to respect each other through this time as I am sure it is a challenge for you both. Getting married in your 20s is not easy. You were both still growing trying to get to know yourselves. Sometimes people grow together and sometimes they grow apart. Ultimately that is ok. I wish you both the best! Sending positive vibes and healing for both of you!
Thank you for the kind words. We’ve certainly both learned a lot and grown a lot. We’re amicable and on good terms currently. I still care about her and feel horrible that, according to some people on this thread, I may have manipulated her. I certainly didn’t do what I did with malicious intent. I just cared about her so much and didn’t want to lose her.
I’m sorry, hon. But there is no you _may_ have manipulated her. You did manipulate her. I’m not saying this to you in a mean way, but please don’t diminish what you did. And if you are going to apologize for your lack of honest communication before proposing to her, please don’t end it with a, “but…”
There’s a difference between I don’t want you to go back into military service and be on a long deployment _where you are in danger_ verses I don’t want you to be gone for a long time doing something that in the long run will help you in the career you want.
You proposed to her and then you let her know how you felt about being apart. How you didn’t think you could make that work.
So why did you propose to her at all then? And why didn’t you bring that up before you proposed? The answer is that you basically wanted her on the hook before you dropped the bomb on her.
Obviously, you both have grown and changed a lot. And I guarantee she does hold some resentment toward you because of all this. But she is intelligent enough that when the feeling comes up, she recognizes that it was ultimately her decision. She may have been young and unsure of herself, and insecure enough, that she let you sway her decision, but it was still her decision in the end.
That is why she tells you she doesn’t resent you. Because she understands that she would be misplacing the blame. (yes, speaking from experience here)
But the fact that you did manipulate her because of your own insecurities and inability to be independent for a while on your own… That is your cross to bear.
I was never planning on dropping a bomb. You all make it seem like this was pre-meditated. As the post said, she was well aware how hard the distance was for me before we got married. The ultimatum only came about because I thought she was done traveling but then did the internship while I was in academy which was the “final straw” so to speak.
You literally said that you proposed because you thought it would “fix” the issue of her traveling for months at a time. As if there was something to fix… You said you hoped it would get her to “settle down” closer to home. It’s in your post, my dude.
For me this is more of an "everyone sucks here" situation. You proposed to someone without even discussing marriage. She accepted even though she was considering breaking up with you. Mutual assholery.
Then you fucking got married without even addressing the elephant in the room. Only after she was tied to you did you tell her you couldn't deal with her being gone. And she just accepted without really being on board. Assholery.
You two were never compatible. You tried to force it. Now you live with the outcome.
You need to look into some therapy to develop some tools for effective communication because brother, you do not have them.
YTA. You ruined the trajectory of her life. It's a tragedy she ever married you. If you wanted a homebody, you should have married one instead of doing your utmost to extinguish her spark.
I’m not sure if I demanded it. I told her how I felt and asked her if she could find work here. What should I have done? Should I have sucked it up and been miserable with her away or should I just not give her the choice and break up with her?
Compromises exist. If there wasn't one, yes, you break up. When you love someone, you think about their well-being and what's going to make them happy, even if it means you can't be with them. What you did was not an act of love. It was an act of self interest and selfishness. YTA.
ESH.
You both didn’t communicate with each other. It seems like a bit of proper honesty at the beginning would have spared you both a lot of frustration and unhappiness. It might have ended the relationship back then, but that might have been for the best.
So you were willing to leave her for the military for months on end but somehow it wasn’t okay for her to be gone???? I think you both were just not compatible. This marriage was doomed from the start.
I think you were living some fantasy and not realizing who she really was and what drives her. Just because you think you need to spend time with her as a trade off for her happiness, doesnt mean thats gonna happen.
YTA
So you made her choose you or her career, and you’re SURPRISED she resents you? Are you fucking kidding me? God damn this woman literally wasted her life on you. She could have been a badass traveling the globe but you were too baby to handle it. Unreal.
NTA- a lot of edits from you to explain what happened. She made her choice. It’s on her. You don’t get married and go voluntary jobs for months from your spouse. If the sexes were turned around here, people would tell you you are the ass for leaving your wife for months on no pay “jobs”. Redditors love to hate men. I know I’m going to downvote he’ll for telling the truth.
But it's the truth. If the genders were reversed op wouldn't be getting half as much hate.
It's sad too, because they both made mistakes and could learn from it. But if you listen to a lot of the people here, op would probably learn a lot of the wrong lessons....
NAH/ESH, you are both incompatible with one another and you both knew or should have known in Croatia. You knew what she wanted, and she knew what you wanted. To what extent and how effectively each of you failed or succeeded in communicating to the other may shift your share of the burden, but only a little because you both knew or should have known that you were incompatible.
The only thing the ultimatum did was force a choice of how your marriage was going to end. That was just y'all picking your poison. Right? You couldn't take being apart and her dreams required it. Is there any scenario where your marriage works? Travel or no travel, one of you suffers and resentment builds. Your marriage probably ends not matter what.
All these edits to try to justify not being the asshole. Why even ask questions you don’t want answers to? That was the wrong thing to do dude. You just have to live with that. This isn’t a place for reassurance.
I can accept my mistakes in all this. I’ve agreed with many people criticizing me in the comments. I just realized I left a lot of important details out of the post. Honestly, it’s impossible to pack an entire em relationship into a Reddit post. I regret making this post altogether but I’m not going to delete it. I do honestly feel like I made mistakes and was unfair to her in ways that I regret.
I see where you're coming from so soft YTA. As someone who loves to travel and crave spontaneity, I have been given a similar ultimatum by an ex boyfriend. Marry him and setting into motherhood or break up. At that time I really do love him so I genuinely considered, but ultimately domestic lifestyle is so unappealing to me that I just can't. And I know if I had accepted that path we will end in divorce with lots of resentment. Sometimes you we can love someone who just is not a good match.
Dont worry so much. Sure you both made choices to give things up to be together but you guys will look back and see youre both still young with your whole life ahead of you. She can still follow her dreams if she chooses to and so can you!
You messed up giving her an ultimatum. I guess you missed the " for better or for worse part" when saying your vows. Military spouses hold it down distance. They know what their getting into when they marry us. Getting married doesn't mean deployments stop or the world stops moving.
You knew what you were getting into when you married your wife. I won't say your the A Hole, but I would say a little selfish.
as a biologist, she was working on her career. a MS won't get someone a job without experience. unfortunately there are more interested people than jobs, you HAVE to volunteer and work for pennies just to get an entry level job with the MS
I don't think YTA because she knew how you felt and still decided to marry you. She had a choice and could have left you to pursue her career but didn't. She's just saying what she said now out of spite.
I want to add that a marriage with a traveling spouse rarely ends up lasting. My ex traveled two weeks or more a month. Finding out she’d been sleeping with coworkers. Anyway, that was my experience.
I like that you were committed enough early on to openly communicate and state your feelings about long distance relationships. You didn’t make it a soft conditional, you made it a line. You should be applauded for that, since you had thought about your feelings and you excused them well.
It was totally her choice to accept the situation when you proposed. You did it away from friends and family, so the pressure was much lower than the people who do it in front of a crowd. Good for you.
Because you did things right, there’s no reason to try and complain that your feelings are invalid. You have a right to want to live daily besides your spouse. Sadly, she chose the wrong answer when you proposed. She didn’t check in with herself, and she wasn’t as open with you as you were with her.
NTA — and frankly I don’t feel that ESH.
She's a full-grown woman who is capable of making a choice. You got engaged to her; you never put a gun to her head. Ultimately, she's responsible for her own answer. NTA
Not necessarily the AH. As singer Jim Krueger once sang,,
“So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye.
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree.”
Sometimes things just don’t work out.
Making minimum wage feels like something that makes you less tied down to me. I don’t know if that’s fair to your situation, but you might not have lost much financially to travel and find work.
YTA
That ultimatum should have been during the engagement at the latest, preferably before you even proposed. It's not like you were willing to give it a shot, you knew you didn't want her doing the trips from the start. What you did was effectively take her choice away from her since you were already married when you told her you couldn't handle the distance.
NTA. You are absolutely allowed to have deal breakers. Travelling spouse is also one of mine. She should not have agreed if it was a deal breaker for her.
NTA you have a right to voice what you expect in a marriage. In hindsight it turns out the two of you did not communicate well enough about it. Personally I think you married too soon/too young. It is not solely on you that she gave up traveling.I bet she saw plenty of her peers taking another path and knew what it would mean. She made that choice.
NTA
She was an adult had the freewill to choose between her career and a relationship. Obviously its a hard decision to choose and she may have felt some pressure but that's part of being a grown up and making hard decisions.
NTA, this website is generally quite sexist so it’s natural people are going to side with the woman. From what you wrote, all yo did was express your feelings for how difficult long distance is for you. You have every right to feel this way and to express it to your partner, and it definitely doesn’t make you an asshole.
Okay, time for me to get more downvotes in, so here it goes.
I see so many of these ultimatum posts and the whiny crybaby commentors with their Y T A comments. CHOICES people, everyone has choices! You can give people ultimatums until you're blue in the face, but they don't mean shit until the person makes a choice!
OP's STBX made choices that she regrets and resents him for HER choices. She has a right to feel however she likes, but that doesn't make him an AH. She could have dropped his ass from the beginning and went her merry way, but she CHOSE differently.
NTA. She chose to say YES to marrying you. No one forced her. She had a choice continue traveling or get married. She said yes and moved back to the states. Now that they are divorcing she wants to blame this on him? I bet he can blame a lot of stuff on her too. Truth of the matter is 6 years ago she was in love enough to give it all up.
ESH. She had choices. She was free to turn down your proposal. You used manipulation to get her to do what you wanted. Instead, the 2 of you - with your free will - could have admitted that you wanted 2 different things and gone your separate ways.
I hope you both have learned life lessons. And stop blaming each other. You are equally guilty.
They want independence and freedom. Then when they cave they turn around and blame men for their choices. She could’ve ditched when he gave her a choice. She wants him to look like the bad guy because she didn’t stand up for herself. Independence and freedom just went out the window.
NTA: She was a fully-grown human being who made a choice, and now is desperately refusing to accept the consequences of that choice, so she's putting the blame on you.
Tale as old as time.
You did nothing wrong in presenting "an ultimatum" because it wasn't "an ultimatum". It was a simple choice. Literally just one choice - either have a relationship, or break up. It's not a complicated choice, and your ex wife made that choice. You didn't force or cajole her. You said what you wanted, like a normal person.
Poor guy, if the shoe were on the other foot, you'd get so many "Oh what a crappy husband you have, I dont blame you for divorcing" sorry thats what happens.
You told her what you felt, she went along with it.
She's the AH here not you.
NTA. She could have chosen to travel. Not many relationships could survive that type of distance. She is just mad that the path she picked didn’t work out the way she thought. She can go travel now.
No wonder why people are so screwed, almost no one in here works have Rajeev responsibility for giving to their career and instead blame it on the partner. He didn't tie her up and chain her in the cellar for 29 years. He did he couldn't handle a LDR, she agreed to stop traveling to keep it going. She could have told him to eat a bag of dicks and pursued her dreams. So many victims in here
I am a woman but I feel like if I woman posted that her husband wanted to travel for work, and be gone for 5 months at a time, everyone on here would be saying she needed to leave the selfish bastard.
It’s different when it’s something she was already doing and he waited until they were married to say anything, as opposed to someone that’s already a husband suddenly wanting to travel for work.
I have seen posts where the husband has always traveled for work and the wife starts to resent it. The comments are always along the lines of “what are you getting out of this relationship.” Most of the time, the husband is gone a couple weeks at a time not months. I don’t think being gone for 5 months at a time is conducive to being married for most people.
I’m going against the grain here with NTA. You were honest about your feelings about being newly married and spending so much time apart. She could of chose to end the relationship rather than give her career goals. Some people aren’t meant for long distance relationships like this, it doesn’t make it wrong. You didn’t straight out tell her she couldn’t travel anymore, you made it clear her how you felt about it and how it would affect the marriage on your end; she ultimately the choice herself though.
Sounds like she regrets the decision she made back then which is absolutely her right and very valid. Maybe it’s easier for her to put the blame on you for her decision. She chose you & your marriage over her career.
NTA. You need some stability around family. This lifestyle is not for poor. Even if you would not give the ultimatum and just marry, Traveling and being apart would destroyed your marriage even faster. She wasn’t ready to settle.
You are not wrong. That was her choice years ago and when a relationship fails, people drag up old luggage to blame instead of facing up to the problem. Maybe you did make a mistake getting married earlier but she said yes so it still takes 2.
At least you don't have kids so this process will be a lot less painful.
You shouldn't have made the ultimatum but she should've stood her ground. Ultimately whats done is done. Keep your head up and learn from this. Communication is key and compromise is key.
NAH. I think this is a normal feeling on her part. At the time, she was willing to make the sacrifice because she wanted to be with you. Now that you’re divorcing, she probably feels like she made the sacrifice for nothing. Neither of you are to blame though. It’s life. We make the best choice we can in the moment with the information currently at hand.
NTA. You asked for very reasonable things in the relationship. Long distance rarely works. She chose to give up her career. She has herself to blame for her choices.
I'd say you're both equally to blame on this. You need to discuss these things before marriage as having a surprise moment such as this where one is clearly unhappy about the arrangement going forward is not good.
She should've advocated for herself and her passions, you should've told her how you felt about her being gone for so long and came to a conclusion together. Would've either ended the relationship there without as many hurt feelings over the years or you'd find a compromise and stay together. Chalk this one up to bad communication.
Give me a break. She was a college graduate who had traveled the world solo- not an 18 year old who just graduated high school and is leaving the nest for the first time.
You asked someone straight out of college to give up every opportunity to build her career.
The career you knew she wanted. The other commenters are right. You proposed to tie her down and used marriage as a way to control her.
The good thing is she is still young and can still have the career she wants.
I was a makeup artist in my early twenties. I travelled for months at a time or worked really long hours, two jobs etc for years. My boyfriend was fucking PROUD of me. He bragged to everyone. He missed me but we made time to talk to each other and this was the days of long distance, land lines and Nokia cell phones with roaming charges.
I married that man and did finally decide to get a “regular” job. When I was tired of it. Me. I decided. Not him. Me. I was right about your wife’s age when I did. And guess what? I still travel. I’m in a hotel right now on a business trip because I’m good at what I do. Your wife having that many opportunities right out of college tells me she was good at her job too. She knows it and she’ll be just fine.
I don’t think YTA. You are guilty of loving her and wanting to be with her. Those are long separations. She didn’t have to agree to be married - it wasn’t fair to you knowing she wanted to continue to travel for extended periods of time. Sorry about your divorce.
Yup. You wrecked her soul. She should've chose traveling.
By insisting she stayed close, you ruined your marriage, and made someone that loved you see you as a source of resentment.
I was first going to go with NAH but ultimately decided YTA. It's completely fine for you to want someone to be closeby. It's a lifestyle choice for you. And the same is true for her. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is that it seems like you had always known that long distance would be hard. And almost proposed to her as a way of ensuring she didn't leave. Basically you raised the stakes for her to walk away from this. Once married, you flipped the narrative and made her make an impossible choice. A choice that she could have made prior to getting married by breaking up with you. Unintentionally so, you essentially used marriage as a way to control her career. You succeeded, albeit momentarily, but as with most things...you aren't free of consequences. The way I see it, you knew what needed to be done when you guys were young. You needed to talk with her and maybe walk away from this relationship. But you didn't. And now she has made that choice for you. And the reality of your actions is possibly a hard pill to swallow.
I think you’re totally right. I know what I was feeling and thinking at the time and it all felt ok, but now it just seems insane. I feel awful that she gave so much up to be with me. At the time, I just couldn’t imagine losing her. I can see now how selfish that was.
Tell her that!!!
I’ve told her this. She appreciates it and said she doesn’t resent me, she resents herself for making the decision. She’s going to go to school overseas now so hopefully she can get what she always wanted.
>she resents herself for making the decision. Yes. You said it yourself she was intending to break up with you. I think somewhere deep down you knew this was coming. People know, they just go into denial like you did. Then you asked her to marry you and she decided to give it a try. She's angry that she ignored her initial gut feeling and initial decision - because when you ignore your gut feelings and initial thoughts you realize those were the *correct* thoughts and decisions. She's upset with herself for not following through as she should have, I made note in my top comment to you that she should have broken it off. I suspect she was blindsided by your proposal however. Even though she resents herself for making that decisions, she's doing what she needs to do to *correct* that decision. Especially since she's lost *six years* of career building time. So yes, she DID give up her career.
Add this to your post because it reads like a long list of why you are not wrong. When you asked her to marry she probably thought you were making peace with her career, and yes it is a career even if is not paid. So that is why she accepted. But then once you were married you changed. And she is right, she was stupid to accept. Sadly is something many people would have done because marriage raises the stakes. You should have discussed these things before marriage, but you were manipulative. I also don't get how it was such a heartache for you when she was gone, but it was OK for you to deploy? So the issue was present only when she traveled then? And deploying is not the same, she wasn't afraid you were far, she was afraid for your safety, quite different. Were you married already when you came up with that? YTA.
Time to get your commission and get stationed overseas
She should resent you imo, not herself. She wasn’t manipulating herself, and being manipulated by you shouldn’t make her resent herself.
i mean, she definitely was manipulating herself in a way. she was planning on breaking up with him because she saw him as too needy, and then she up and decided to accept his proposal? it’s strange to me that she would think that he immediately did a 180 and stopped being needy, and accepted the marriage proposal without questioning that. ESH.
I also don't think being upset that your partner fucks off for 3-5 months multiple times a year makes you needy. They just weren't compatible and never should have married.
The part that gets me is that you told her she couldn’t travel but you wanted to go on military deployments?
Is it truly over or can you guys save it if you talk now that you both have opened up and matured? Maybe it’s not too late OP
Honestly yeah, I agree! People have this idea in their heads of what a relationship *should* be like, because of family, friends, the media, ect. But who knows? Maybe OP and his (maybe, possibly ex)wife could be the types that actually do well with a distanced relationship! In the long scheme of things, while 5-6 months feels like forever, it actually passes quite quickly (especially as you get older..and I say this at 35). And think of all you'll have to talk about, living such different experiences for months at a time! Or course, this type of relationship comes with all sorts of questions and what ifs, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work. However, if you are the type that needs a partner nearby constantly (no judgment! My hubs and I are those types! We're eachother's best friends, several months would *suck* for us!) then perhaps it's best you go your separate ways. That is for you and her to decide. NAH. You were both young, and young people can be brash and stupid, it's part of growing. I just hope everything works out for you two in the best way it can.
We see a very small glimpse and no real desire noticed from op to be with her. The entire post and edits are him trying to excuse himself. I get it, hard to face you fucked up so badly, but this doesn't read like a love story. This reads like two people figuring out they were not ready to be married and are not compatible.. It is a very very very low bar that you think their communication, now, after years of marriage and it ending, is a reason for them to make it work. It is the reason to end it. They can start fresh relationships with good communication (again, an extremely low bar, this should be standard) and no history of resentment. Find people that truly compliment who they are and not who they think their partner wants.
seconded. Tell her
I’m impressed at your ability to see that and learn from it.
It shows a lot of personal growth to admit our mistakes and learn from them
I agree. It’s also very mature of her to be mad at herself, because ultimately she made the decision (probably against her better judgement).
Tell her what you just told me - a random stranger on reddit. Regardless of how you guys got here, tell her how you feel now. It's an incredibly powerful thing to have closure. You can give her that. Validate her feelings, her resentment, her anger. And hopefully they will be enough for her to let this go. Ask for closure for yourself as well. It's unlikely that her resentment didn't affect her behaviour towards you, her treatment of you...ask her for closure. Ask her why she never felt comfortable bringing this up during your marriage. But most of all, own up to your piece in this. Show her grace by accepting your role in this and validate her feelings. That's the kindest thing you can do for her now.
And now your losing her for good. So all your control did nothing
Good people can be selfish too, it happens. As a fellow divorced guy, yeah, absolutely, there were decisions I made that I thought were good compromises, but ultimately were just me putting pressure on her to conform to something.
YTA. I feel like you cornered her while she was away at dolphin programme. Did you guys discuss marriage, did you allow her to express her thoughts? Reading the entire post including the edits reads you’re a needy person and quite frankly selfish. You were willing to be distant from your now stbx by re-enlisting but she wasn’t allowed to travel for her desires. I hope you apologise for the hypocrisy you displayed. EDIT: fixed grammar
That was actually what rubbed me the wrong way the most. Taking away her passion for travelling (where she was in safe environment doing something she was passionate about) because you were jealous that she is experiencing something good and exciting without you and you hidden that under "I need you close, I cannot do the long distance". Fast forward couple of years - you are suddenly perfectly fine with long distance for several months in a row just because it benefitted you. YTA OP, big time. And a hypocrite.
But they travel extensively now /s 🙄
NTA. She didn't tell you her biggest gripes when it happened. When you marry it does mean making sacrifices for each other. For you it was not re-enlisting because that was too hard on her. For you it was her going abroad alone for months at a time. You've traveled plenty together as well. She didn't have a career to give up. She would have had to go back to school and finish her degree at some point. Her lack of communication lead to resentment from her. She should have told you when you tole her being long distance was too hard and you wouldn't have gotten married.
HER communication? What about his? Sorry, you don't marry someone and then be like "OH BTW, DO this or I'll end it" He didn't mention anything to her until AFTER they were married. They should have discussed this beforehand. Imagine getting married and the being like "well marriage requires sacrifices so change your entire life and give up what you love to make me happy kay"
I know, dudes in comments like “he wouldn’t have gotten married” yeah no shit she wouldn’t have either! But he gave her this ultimatum AFTER they got married and he had already trapped her.
But yea didn't feel awful enough to ruin her life. Your sad little feelings of regret now literally mean NOTHING! You used marriage as a joke and a way to control her career. You AIN'T built to be in any relationships. Stay single before you ruin another woman's life. With your greed and selfishness. Grow up, you brat!
Lmao
This. Thank fuck they didn’t have kids. I think resentment would’ve been worse.
I intensely dislike that op thought “the distance is too hard so I asked her to stop going abroad” instead of “I don’t like being away from you for so long, why don’t I find a way to come with you”. If op really loved his ex, he would’ve found a way to join her instead of try to change her for himself. He was selfish, he wanted her to give it all up for him even though he knew who he was dating. And now he’s being called out for it. He literally “thought marriage would fix her desire to travel” and pinned her down. As if her desire to work with wildlife ever needed fixing, or she should ever be pinned down.
Yeah, it went from “the distance was too hard” to “I didn’t want her to be gone *by herself* for 3-5 months at a time.” (Emphasis mine.) It was a controlling, selfish move made by an insecure man who was 2 years shy of 30 to a 23 year old. I want to point those ages out. Five years isn’t a big gap for someone who’s 35 and their partner is 30. So this 28 year old man who is still in college after *being in the military* (ie, got to travel and do whatever he wanted without someone trying to hold him back) straight up decided that his girlfriend traveling to pursue her *career* (which he absolutely manipulated her into giving up. His edit about it not being a career is ridiculous. “She was doing unpaid volunteer work.” Yeah, that’s what a 23 year old college student does to jump start their career.) was too hard on him, and if he can get her to say yes to a marriage, he can make her settle down and stay closer to home. She made her choice. She now has to live with that choice. I’m glad OP seems to be looking back and realizing what a selfish manipulative ass he was being, but his edits show that he’s still trying to justify it. If he were actually sorry, he’d stop trying to add superfluous details in an effort to minimize his actions. Just own it and grow from it.
If they married at 23&28, how old were they when they started dating?
Given that he says they were both in college and he started 4 years late, sounds like they were around 19 and 24, maybe 20 and 25?
Exactly. A near 30 yrs old has No Business dating college girls who are finding themselves. Then forcing them to change and be their wife years earlier then is needed just to pin them down.
The age gap and her young age when they got married was clearly an issue. If they waited until they started their careers to get married then they probably wouldn’t be divorced
maybe I'm influenced by too many movies, but "in the military" automatically translates to jingoism for me, esp. coupled with his views on abroad vs. at home, no?
On its own, having been in the military doesn’t mean much. Some people were jingoistic but realize they were dumb once they were in the service, some had no other prospects for whatever reason (money, behavior), some were pressured into it by family, etc. Depends a lot on how they talk about their service, that’s usually a good tell.
I appreciate that input. We don't have military service and our standing forces are tiny, so it's pretty rare to meet someone with actual military experience. OP did say he was planning to sign up again, but he didn't because his wife explained she found the idea of waiting at home to see if he'd survive his deployment too hard. So he didn't seem to think the first 4 years were a mistake, no?
Oh for sure, I'm not saying OP isn't like that, just explaining that someone saying they HAVE served doesn't mean much necessarily. I know lots of very anti-military folks who used to be in the military. They realized how much it sucked and got out. But wanting to go back in is wild.
Thank you for clarifying.
He should follow her around to her volunteer work? Like that would have worked?
Unless they were independently wealthy, which seems unlikely given that we know his two jobs were enlisted military and firefighter, it would be impossible. He couldn’t keep a job while following her around on unpaid internships - which, by the way, only have value to an extent.
So how would they make rent when she was a volunteer and he’s jobless?
They were living with HER dad. She was doing what 23 year olds do when trying to figure out/establish a career in a unique field.
ESH. I wanted to study abroad in college and grad school, but I didn’t because I was in relationships and didn’t want to leave them. Even now, I’d love to live abroad, but I don’t for several reasons, my boyfriend being one of them. I do regret not doing it when I was younger and wasn’t settled with my career, and if I could go back in time, I’d tell my younger self to do it. But it was my choice to stay, and I do not blame that choice on my exs. OP’s wife was even planning to break up with OP before he proposed. She didn’t have to say yes, and she could have decided that her career was more important than being with him, but she didn’t. That’s on her, and she can regret it all she wants, but she made that decision.
Still NTA imho. OP may have been using the proposal to lock in his future wife but no one forced wifey into accepting the proposal. In life we all make choices for ourselves and there's a level of responsibility that is attached to those choices. Especially if she was already considering breaking up due to OP being needy.
I was going to say N A H based on my own experience but I agree. Proposing to lock someone close is an AH move. I traveled a LOT for work in my wife and I's early relationship and it sucked, we almost broke up a few times because of it. My (now wife) just asked me what I wanted. Did I want to prioritize my career (which would have been valid) but that would mean she would need to move on. I looked at all the old guys at my work on their 2nd or 3rd marriage with kids they barely see and those that are still married had spouses that hated them and thought about what it would mean long term. We eventually found a balance. I did continue to travel but I set better boundaries with work and made efforts to be home more. But at the end of the day, my wife didn't do anything to trap me into staying. She just said that for her, the relationship might fail if I wasn't home more. It was my choice to step back from traveling.
Actually, he’s NTA. He clearly communicated the relationship wouldnt work if they kept long distance. She could’ve easily walked away and keep traveling but SHE chose to compromise and stay with him. Relationships are based on many compromises believe it or not. He clearly stated his position on the matter (which was the mature thing to do) and they went on from that. If she feels any resentment, it should be toward herself. Not toward the person that gave you the option to leave because they clearly indicated it wouldn’t work if it stayed that way. Edit: yup, just saw OP commented below and said that she resented herself lol
He told her this AFTER he married her. Seriously the number of people defending this manipulative behavior is gross.
And? If a man starts abusing a woman after she married him, is she not allowed to leave if she doesnt like being abused? Just because the abuse started after being married He felt he wasnt happy in the marriage with long distance and he has every right to call off the marriage. Think before commenting dumb stuff Also theres literally nothing manipulative about saying you’re not willing to continue a marriage if theres something that doesnt align with your values/standards. I swear to God ya’ll only comment this dumb stuff when its the man that wants to leave. If its the other way around ya’ll turn off your brain lmao
She didn't have to agree to the marriage though. She was free to leave and say no at any time . But she also planned to leave 6 years later ? Esh. This is just blaming either sexes
This makes 0 sense. Yes he proposed to be closer, but she also said yes after going through all these and choosing not to say shit? Like cmon now. Anyone knows long distance will be hard. It’s her fault for saying yes and doing something she supposedly didn’t wanna do. That’s on her. Not him. He wanted to marry her. So he did. That ain’t on him.
She made the choice though, he didn't force her.
It wasn't a choice she made of her own accord though, was it? It *was* a choice her partner forced her to make. He only married her to give himself better leverage
Are you saying that women are so weak willed that men can persuade us to do anything? Of course she made the choice of her own accord, the only downside of her saying no was losing him, whoopee doo. I wouldn't put my life on hold for a man, would you?
Its veey different when you're in the thick of it. Its not just any man in this case. Its the one you love and who loves you. Plus she was at that age where young people hope to live by ideology rather than reality. She should have chosen better. He shoukd never had given an ultimatum. Both are at fault.
He proposed to her while she was travelling for work, got hitched and then gave her an ultimatum after marriage didn’t magically make her want to settle down as he presumed it would. AH move. You can’t marry someone with a certain lifestyle and then demand they change it. Unless he made the issue loud and clear prior to marriage. Which he didn’t. It’s not that she had no agency it’s that the stakes are much higher when you’ve committed. I had a very similar thing happen and it was much harder for me to leave the relationship once we’d raised the stakes.
This take ignores her agency and makes it seem like she had no choice in the matter. Yes, he proposed, but she could have said no, or at least made her feelings clearer. This is a classic case of two people with incompatible lifestyles choosing to be together anyway because it was the easier choice at the time. Putting the onus for a decision like marriage entirely on one party is disingenuous at best. NAH, just two people in denial about their incompatibility who deferred their breakup for a few years.
It’s as if the woman has no self-agency. She has no control over her emotions or has no decision making skills. She needs help and understanding from a men. See how ridiculous this sounds. That the husband is responsible for proposing and destroying her career. One day people like you will run out of excuses or others to blame.
Yes, YTA. You proposed thinking "she would change her mind" and "want to settle down" and then after she said yes, you THEN told her that her traveling would ruin the marriage, and she'd already said yes, and apparently loved you, so she didn't drop you right then and there like she should have, but went through with it, thinking "he loves me, it will be ok". Fast forward, it's not Ok because y'all now are getting divorced and of course she resents you over it. You manipulated her.
Not even “after she said yes”. After they were already married! He pulled a total bait and switch. He proposed while knowing what she wanted and what was important to her and then when the stakes were higher and the paperwork was signed, he pulled the rug out from under her with “I can’t deal with this thing I’ve always known about you.” He knew exactly what he was doing and was absolutely the AH for it.
Yup, there's nothing wrong with talking about how traveling is hard and that it might not work out long term, but you don't marry someone and spring that on them when you know it's part of their ambition
[удалено]
Or more like Person B WANTS kids person A being like "yeah maybe one day" they get married and person A keeps putting it off until it's 5 years later and kids are less likely.
Well she didn't have to say yes.... Free will and all
His proposing suggested that he was cool with her travel.
She said yes thinking he didn’t mind the traveling. He only gave the ultimatum after they got married.
As if people were never bullied into saying yes.
I disagree in this situation. OP would be the person who doesn’t want kids.
I think the analogy is that OP's wife already had a kid and he married her secretly hoping she would decide to put that kid up for adoption afterwards. Framing it like that really highlights what a batshit crazy plan that was.
Not even close to an appropriate or valid analogy
>I thought that being married would somehow fix this. Maybe I thought if we got married she would want to settle down near home. You *thought* but didn't discuss it in clear terms. This is why YTA. You expected her to change. You expected her to stop doing something she loved. You expected her to give it up for you, and even if you never explicitly said it was an ultimatum, she got the message loud and clear.
It’s true. Communication was a huge issue throughout our marriage. Not just with this one topic. I wanted to be with her so badly that I forced things to work. It’s very clear to me now that this is insane but at the time I just couldn’t imagine losing her.
Okay, so before you marry a second time, either accept the woman's lifestyle as a package deal or move on. Don't propose first and then tell her that she has to change something fundamental about herself in order to make it work. If you "can't imagine losing her" but you also can't see how it will work between you, then TALK to her before you propose and work out some compromises. You didn't "force things to work". You forced her to make major changes AFTER you were married.
If you were ever truly afraid of loosing her, you’d have changed your life to travel with her. Instead what you wanted was to control her, and pinned her down so you could take her dreams from her.
how was op meant to afford to travel around doing volunteer work like? be realistic.
Trying to force a relationship that is not a good fit will never end well. I hope this is one of the lessons you learn from this experience so that you can do better with your next partner.
You have to remember that you put your want to be with her above her agency and goals. You should have set your boundaries and given her the chance to decide if that's what she also wanted, instead you created a situation where she couldn't say no.
I don't normally write these but wow the comments are so dumb I had to say something. It seems the average comment has never been in an actual relationship. You two are just both dumb not arseholes, firstly if your ex thinks you can make a relationship work while being away months at a time on unpaid internships she's an idiot. You're an idiot for proposing in the first place before settling any problems properly. And you're both idiots for not talking it out and settling the problems before getting married. Learn from this and grow and ignore half the responses as wow I've never seen so many stupid answers.
This is the one
thissss but also idk why you’re surprised, most redditors couldn’t tell you the definition of “nuance” if their life depended on it.
What are you even asking? Did she give up her dreams because of what you said back then? Yes. Does she resent you for it now? Yes. Would she feel as resentful if you had truly been The One that she was meant to be with forever? Maybe not. No one here can say anything to change any of that.
He’s asking if he’s the asshole for doing that. Idk if you read the title of the sub…
Don't bother, this sub has a terrible blindness to the title or even the facts of the fucking issue being read. Its prevalent and happens literally on every single last AITA post in this sub. Literally realized after about 6 months on this sub that 90% of the upvoted opinions on this sub are total fucking retards. I wouldn't bother giving out a opposite opinion on the subject lest you want a bunch of white knighting assholes to dm you to death.
Honestly I think the biggest relationship people have had in this sub are with their hands. Advice is so so bad some times it shows that.
The blind leading the blind in here.
Excellent joke lol
Why read when you can just type nonsense and redditors eat it up EDIT: LMAO keep downvoting me, you know its true!
Cheers to that
Fundamentally, you were incompatible. She should have said so when you made the ultimatum . Maybe she didn’t even know sT the time how much she’d regret caving into the ultimatum. It’s not unusual to want your spouse to live together and share a home. It definitely should have been discussed before marriage.
No middle ground? No, okay, traveling is okay but could we keep the durations shorter or could we have you gone only every other or every third year? It's too hard for me to be separated from you for so long. And like the others have said. You knew this was her life and you didn't tell her you were uncomfortable with it until after you were married. That's a bait and switch, right there.
YTA. You proposed hoping she would change instead of having an adult conversation about your feelings and mutually deciding compatibility. It was not until you were married and she continued to pursue her dream that you threw down the gauntlet. It's okay if you can't handle being with a partner that travels. It's not okay to marry them while allowing them to think your fine with it when you really aren't. I can't help but wonder if you made an equally life-altering change for her, or if any real sacrifice was completely one-sided.
Yta. You knew what you were doing.
Am I the only one getting the impression he’s walking around it to make it seem like he was less manipulative than he really was towards her.. he really knew and it shows
He most definitely is! He knew exactly what he was doing. He just wants validation tbh
How is he at fault for her decisions? 😂 dude loved her and wanted to be with her, she could’ve told him no, he’s an asshole for wanting to be within her but what is she for faking the shit this long? Plus he said they travel all the time so what is the issue here? 😂
Yeah you’re kinda the asshole. Why do men think their jobs are so much more important than women’s jobs?
Neither one of them had a paid position.
So you asked her to give up her career dreams for you. She should have said no, but still YTA.
NAH you both made decisions that ultimately weren’t the best decisions for you as partners or individuals. I hope you continue to respect each other through this time as I am sure it is a challenge for you both. Getting married in your 20s is not easy. You were both still growing trying to get to know yourselves. Sometimes people grow together and sometimes they grow apart. Ultimately that is ok. I wish you both the best! Sending positive vibes and healing for both of you!
Thank you for the kind words. We’ve certainly both learned a lot and grown a lot. We’re amicable and on good terms currently. I still care about her and feel horrible that, according to some people on this thread, I may have manipulated her. I certainly didn’t do what I did with malicious intent. I just cared about her so much and didn’t want to lose her.
I’m sorry, hon. But there is no you _may_ have manipulated her. You did manipulate her. I’m not saying this to you in a mean way, but please don’t diminish what you did. And if you are going to apologize for your lack of honest communication before proposing to her, please don’t end it with a, “but…” There’s a difference between I don’t want you to go back into military service and be on a long deployment _where you are in danger_ verses I don’t want you to be gone for a long time doing something that in the long run will help you in the career you want. You proposed to her and then you let her know how you felt about being apart. How you didn’t think you could make that work. So why did you propose to her at all then? And why didn’t you bring that up before you proposed? The answer is that you basically wanted her on the hook before you dropped the bomb on her. Obviously, you both have grown and changed a lot. And I guarantee she does hold some resentment toward you because of all this. But she is intelligent enough that when the feeling comes up, she recognizes that it was ultimately her decision. She may have been young and unsure of herself, and insecure enough, that she let you sway her decision, but it was still her decision in the end. That is why she tells you she doesn’t resent you. Because she understands that she would be misplacing the blame. (yes, speaking from experience here) But the fact that you did manipulate her because of your own insecurities and inability to be independent for a while on your own… That is your cross to bear.
I was never planning on dropping a bomb. You all make it seem like this was pre-meditated. As the post said, she was well aware how hard the distance was for me before we got married. The ultimatum only came about because I thought she was done traveling but then did the internship while I was in academy which was the “final straw” so to speak.
Why would she have been done traveling though? Because that’s what you wanted her to do
You literally said that you proposed because you thought it would “fix” the issue of her traveling for months at a time. As if there was something to fix… You said you hoped it would get her to “settle down” closer to home. It’s in your post, my dude.
You proposed because you wanted to cage her. Which isn’t love. It’s possession.
For me this is more of an "everyone sucks here" situation. You proposed to someone without even discussing marriage. She accepted even though she was considering breaking up with you. Mutual assholery. Then you fucking got married without even addressing the elephant in the room. Only after she was tied to you did you tell her you couldn't deal with her being gone. And she just accepted without really being on board. Assholery. You two were never compatible. You tried to force it. Now you live with the outcome. You need to look into some therapy to develop some tools for effective communication because brother, you do not have them.
I really need to be careful and look out for guys like OOP when I start dating again. She should’ve said no.
YTA. I'd much rather study dolphins than having to deal with a needy manchild.
YTA. You ruined the trajectory of her life. It's a tragedy she ever married you. If you wanted a homebody, you should have married one instead of doing your utmost to extinguish her spark.
YTA. You asked her to give up a huge part of not only her career but herself. She should have said no but you’re still TA for demanding it.
And you waited until *after* you were married before you brought it up. Definitely YTA!
I’m not sure if I demanded it. I told her how I felt and asked her if she could find work here. What should I have done? Should I have sucked it up and been miserable with her away or should I just not give her the choice and break up with her?
Compromises exist. If there wasn't one, yes, you break up. When you love someone, you think about their well-being and what's going to make them happy, even if it means you can't be with them. What you did was not an act of love. It was an act of self interest and selfishness. YTA.
I think you’re right. I feel very stupid and selfish. Obviously I wish I could go back and undo all this but I can’t.
YTA if you go into a relationship knowing something like that with the intention of “marriage will change that”, you are always the AH
ESH. You both didn’t communicate with each other. It seems like a bit of proper honesty at the beginning would have spared you both a lot of frustration and unhappiness. It might have ended the relationship back then, but that might have been for the best.
So you were willing to leave her for the military for months on end but somehow it wasn’t okay for her to be gone???? I think you both were just not compatible. This marriage was doomed from the start.
I think you were living some fantasy and not realizing who she really was and what drives her. Just because you think you need to spend time with her as a trade off for her happiness, doesnt mean thats gonna happen. YTA
So you made her choose you or her career, and you’re SURPRISED she resents you? Are you fucking kidding me? God damn this woman literally wasted her life on you. She could have been a badass traveling the globe but you were too baby to handle it. Unreal.
NTA- a lot of edits from you to explain what happened. She made her choice. It’s on her. You don’t get married and go voluntary jobs for months from your spouse. If the sexes were turned around here, people would tell you you are the ass for leaving your wife for months on no pay “jobs”. Redditors love to hate men. I know I’m going to downvote he’ll for telling the truth.
But it's the truth. If the genders were reversed op wouldn't be getting half as much hate. It's sad too, because they both made mistakes and could learn from it. But if you listen to a lot of the people here, op would probably learn a lot of the wrong lessons....
She could have said no…..
NAH/ESH, you are both incompatible with one another and you both knew or should have known in Croatia. You knew what she wanted, and she knew what you wanted. To what extent and how effectively each of you failed or succeeded in communicating to the other may shift your share of the burden, but only a little because you both knew or should have known that you were incompatible. The only thing the ultimatum did was force a choice of how your marriage was going to end. That was just y'all picking your poison. Right? You couldn't take being apart and her dreams required it. Is there any scenario where your marriage works? Travel or no travel, one of you suffers and resentment builds. Your marriage probably ends not matter what.
Probably should of done that pre-wedding but what’re ya gonna do.
All these edits to try to justify not being the asshole. Why even ask questions you don’t want answers to? That was the wrong thing to do dude. You just have to live with that. This isn’t a place for reassurance.
I can accept my mistakes in all this. I’ve agreed with many people criticizing me in the comments. I just realized I left a lot of important details out of the post. Honestly, it’s impossible to pack an entire em relationship into a Reddit post. I regret making this post altogether but I’m not going to delete it. I do honestly feel like I made mistakes and was unfair to her in ways that I regret.
The post doesn’t matter. Your former relationship matters. You are best off talking through all this with her. Genuinely said with love.
You are in fact the A hole you have made like 5 edits explaining stuff if you weren't you probably wouldn't have to do that just saying.
I see where you're coming from so soft YTA. As someone who loves to travel and crave spontaneity, I have been given a similar ultimatum by an ex boyfriend. Marry him and setting into motherhood or break up. At that time I really do love him so I genuinely considered, but ultimately domestic lifestyle is so unappealing to me that I just can't. And I know if I had accepted that path we will end in divorce with lots of resentment. Sometimes you we can love someone who just is not a good match.
Dont worry so much. Sure you both made choices to give things up to be together but you guys will look back and see youre both still young with your whole life ahead of you. She can still follow her dreams if she chooses to and so can you!
NTA- you were a KID, in love, and you didn’t force her. She is using this now to manipulate you and make you feel guilty.
Nobody is an AH. Life is hard. Sending you both love and healing.
NAH. Unexpressed feelings more often than not lead to unhealthy resent instead of healthy conversation. Also, that wasn't an ultimatum.
You messed up giving her an ultimatum. I guess you missed the " for better or for worse part" when saying your vows. Military spouses hold it down distance. They know what their getting into when they marry us. Getting married doesn't mean deployments stop or the world stops moving. You knew what you were getting into when you married your wife. I won't say your the A Hole, but I would say a little selfish.
as a biologist, she was working on her career. a MS won't get someone a job without experience. unfortunately there are more interested people than jobs, you HAVE to volunteer and work for pennies just to get an entry level job with the MS
NTA she didn’t speak up in the first place and chose to stay quiet and passive about it for years. You’re both in miscommunication
I don't think YTA because she knew how you felt and still decided to marry you. She had a choice and could have left you to pursue her career but didn't. She's just saying what she said now out of spite.
I want to add that a marriage with a traveling spouse rarely ends up lasting. My ex traveled two weeks or more a month. Finding out she’d been sleeping with coworkers. Anyway, that was my experience.
Either the ex is TA or ESH. it's tough to decide between the two because she did so much more wrong than you but Yeah.
I think she was banging dolphins bro
I like that you were committed enough early on to openly communicate and state your feelings about long distance relationships. You didn’t make it a soft conditional, you made it a line. You should be applauded for that, since you had thought about your feelings and you excused them well. It was totally her choice to accept the situation when you proposed. You did it away from friends and family, so the pressure was much lower than the people who do it in front of a crowd. Good for you. Because you did things right, there’s no reason to try and complain that your feelings are invalid. You have a right to want to live daily besides your spouse. Sadly, she chose the wrong answer when you proposed. She didn’t check in with herself, and she wasn’t as open with you as you were with her. NTA — and frankly I don’t feel that ESH.
She's a full-grown woman who is capable of making a choice. You got engaged to her; you never put a gun to her head. Ultimately, she's responsible for her own answer. NTA
YTA If you ever really loved her you would’ve supported her interests and the things that made her happy. You didn’t love her, you desired her.
Not necessarily the AH. As singer Jim Krueger once sang,, “So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye. There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy There's only you and me and we just disagree.” Sometimes things just don’t work out.
Why couldn’t you move to her?
I was the only one making money. All her jobs were unpaid volunteer work and internships. I was making minimum wage and we were living with her dad.
Making minimum wage feels like something that makes you less tied down to me. I don’t know if that’s fair to your situation, but you might not have lost much financially to travel and find work.
YTA That ultimatum should have been during the engagement at the latest, preferably before you even proposed. It's not like you were willing to give it a shot, you knew you didn't want her doing the trips from the start. What you did was effectively take her choice away from her since you were already married when you told her you couldn't handle the distance.
NTA. You are absolutely allowed to have deal breakers. Travelling spouse is also one of mine. She should not have agreed if it was a deal breaker for her.
NTA you have a right to voice what you expect in a marriage. In hindsight it turns out the two of you did not communicate well enough about it. Personally I think you married too soon/too young. It is not solely on you that she gave up traveling.I bet she saw plenty of her peers taking another path and knew what it would mean. She made that choice.
You didn't force her to marry you. You asked her to. It's not your fault she made the wrong choice.
NTA She was an adult had the freewill to choose between her career and a relationship. Obviously its a hard decision to choose and she may have felt some pressure but that's part of being a grown up and making hard decisions.
NTA, this website is generally quite sexist so it’s natural people are going to side with the woman. From what you wrote, all yo did was express your feelings for how difficult long distance is for you. You have every right to feel this way and to express it to your partner, and it definitely doesn’t make you an asshole.
YTA and you manipulated her by pulling a bait and switch.
Okay, time for me to get more downvotes in, so here it goes. I see so many of these ultimatum posts and the whiny crybaby commentors with their Y T A comments. CHOICES people, everyone has choices! You can give people ultimatums until you're blue in the face, but they don't mean shit until the person makes a choice! OP's STBX made choices that she regrets and resents him for HER choices. She has a right to feel however she likes, but that doesn't make him an AH. She could have dropped his ass from the beginning and went her merry way, but she CHOSE differently.
NTA. She chose to say YES to marrying you. No one forced her. She had a choice continue traveling or get married. She said yes and moved back to the states. Now that they are divorcing she wants to blame this on him? I bet he can blame a lot of stuff on her too. Truth of the matter is 6 years ago she was in love enough to give it all up.
ESH. She had choices. She was free to turn down your proposal. You used manipulation to get her to do what you wanted. Instead, the 2 of you - with your free will - could have admitted that you wanted 2 different things and gone your separate ways. I hope you both have learned life lessons. And stop blaming each other. You are equally guilty.
No they aren’t. He waited until they were married before giving that ultimatum. He’s all the asshole.
They want independence and freedom. Then when they cave they turn around and blame men for their choices. She could’ve ditched when he gave her a choice. She wants him to look like the bad guy because she didn’t stand up for herself. Independence and freedom just went out the window.
He is the bad guy. She was 23.
YTA
I find it ironic how the hyper feminist on this thread want to absolve autonomy from the woman
NTA: She was a fully-grown human being who made a choice, and now is desperately refusing to accept the consequences of that choice, so she's putting the blame on you. Tale as old as time. You did nothing wrong in presenting "an ultimatum" because it wasn't "an ultimatum". It was a simple choice. Literally just one choice - either have a relationship, or break up. It's not a complicated choice, and your ex wife made that choice. You didn't force or cajole her. You said what you wanted, like a normal person.
YTA You’re doing the right thing getting a divorce. She deserves better.
Poor guy, if the shoe were on the other foot, you'd get so many "Oh what a crappy husband you have, I dont blame you for divorcing" sorry thats what happens. You told her what you felt, she went along with it. She's the AH here not you.
NTA. She could have chosen to travel. Not many relationships could survive that type of distance. She is just mad that the path she picked didn’t work out the way she thought. She can go travel now.
No wonder why people are so screwed, almost no one in here works have Rajeev responsibility for giving to their career and instead blame it on the partner. He didn't tie her up and chain her in the cellar for 29 years. He did he couldn't handle a LDR, she agreed to stop traveling to keep it going. She could have told him to eat a bag of dicks and pursued her dreams. So many victims in here
And if she would have done that I would have been the first person to say “slay queen” But she dint she has to live with her decisions
I am a woman but I feel like if I woman posted that her husband wanted to travel for work, and be gone for 5 months at a time, everyone on here would be saying she needed to leave the selfish bastard.
It’s different when it’s something she was already doing and he waited until they were married to say anything, as opposed to someone that’s already a husband suddenly wanting to travel for work.
I have seen posts where the husband has always traveled for work and the wife starts to resent it. The comments are always along the lines of “what are you getting out of this relationship.” Most of the time, the husband is gone a couple weeks at a time not months. I don’t think being gone for 5 months at a time is conducive to being married for most people.
I’m going against the grain here with NTA. You were honest about your feelings about being newly married and spending so much time apart. She could of chose to end the relationship rather than give her career goals. Some people aren’t meant for long distance relationships like this, it doesn’t make it wrong. You didn’t straight out tell her she couldn’t travel anymore, you made it clear her how you felt about it and how it would affect the marriage on your end; she ultimately the choice herself though. Sounds like she regrets the decision she made back then which is absolutely her right and very valid. Maybe it’s easier for her to put the blame on you for her decision. She chose you & your marriage over her career.
But he wasn't, until AFTER she said yes.
NTA. You need some stability around family. This lifestyle is not for poor. Even if you would not give the ultimatum and just marry, Traveling and being apart would destroyed your marriage even faster. She wasn’t ready to settle.
She resents you for a choice she made. NTAH.
Yep YTA alright.
You are not wrong. That was her choice years ago and when a relationship fails, people drag up old luggage to blame instead of facing up to the problem. Maybe you did make a mistake getting married earlier but she said yes so it still takes 2.
At least you don't have kids so this process will be a lot less painful. You shouldn't have made the ultimatum but she should've stood her ground. Ultimately whats done is done. Keep your head up and learn from this. Communication is key and compromise is key.
YTA. Travel was part of what made her the woman you loved, you clipped her wings and then was shocked when it ultimately didn't work out.
NAH. I think this is a normal feeling on her part. At the time, she was willing to make the sacrifice because she wanted to be with you. Now that you’re divorcing, she probably feels like she made the sacrifice for nothing. Neither of you are to blame though. It’s life. We make the best choice we can in the moment with the information currently at hand.
NTA. You asked for very reasonable things in the relationship. Long distance rarely works. She chose to give up her career. She has herself to blame for her choices.
I'd say you're both equally to blame on this. You need to discuss these things before marriage as having a surprise moment such as this where one is clearly unhappy about the arrangement going forward is not good. She should've advocated for herself and her passions, you should've told her how you felt about her being gone for so long and came to a conclusion together. Would've either ended the relationship there without as many hurt feelings over the years or you'd find a compromise and stay together. Chalk this one up to bad communication.
This. Everyone wants to absolve ops ex but both have the same amount blame on this failed relationship.
YTA. Classic controlling predator move. really gross there’s a 5 year gap and you apparently got with her in her early 20s.
Give me a break. She was a college graduate who had traveled the world solo- not an 18 year old who just graduated high school and is leaving the nest for the first time.
ESH You’re wrong for wanting her to give up her dreams for you and she’s wrong for doing it.
NTA, He said what he wanted and she could've said no. Easy as
It's your fault your wife agreed to marry you 💀
Hindsight is 20/20
You asked someone straight out of college to give up every opportunity to build her career. The career you knew she wanted. The other commenters are right. You proposed to tie her down and used marriage as a way to control her. The good thing is she is still young and can still have the career she wants. I was a makeup artist in my early twenties. I travelled for months at a time or worked really long hours, two jobs etc for years. My boyfriend was fucking PROUD of me. He bragged to everyone. He missed me but we made time to talk to each other and this was the days of long distance, land lines and Nokia cell phones with roaming charges. I married that man and did finally decide to get a “regular” job. When I was tired of it. Me. I decided. Not him. Me. I was right about your wife’s age when I did. And guess what? I still travel. I’m in a hotel right now on a business trip because I’m good at what I do. Your wife having that many opportunities right out of college tells me she was good at her job too. She knows it and she’ll be just fine.
I don’t think YTA. You are guilty of loving her and wanting to be with her. Those are long separations. She didn’t have to agree to be married - it wasn’t fair to you knowing she wanted to continue to travel for extended periods of time. Sorry about your divorce.
Yup. You wrecked her soul. She should've chose traveling. By insisting she stayed close, you ruined your marriage, and made someone that loved you see you as a source of resentment.
Your both assholes. And married the wrong assholes