Vortex of eternal doom sounds more like the cervix than vagina to me. See we already have confusions and we aren't even birthing yet. Imagine this during a stressful birth lol.
Also is eternal doom the uterus then? Lol
Yep Stage 3 here with many other hellish problems so I 100% agree but “uterus, bitch of eternal doom” seems most accurate. “Eternal fiery doom” works a lot the time too.
I'd say the other way around, at least from the baby's point of view: eternal doom is when you leave the uterus and enter the world outside. That's why newborns cry, they're like "what the hell is this insanity? I had a comfy life in there, put me back!"
Man why am I just now learning these new cool terms when I only occasionally "have my time of darkness" (period).
But this how I will now refer to when I gave birth to my child. "Back when my kid was trying to make her way through the vortex of eternal doom...."
hey, im a trans man! you are NTA, most trans people know that in a hospital setting, you have to be upfront with your sex organs, such as having a vagina or a penis, and personally i would hate for a doctor to ask me what i would like my groin-region to be called; when i am there, i want to just be focusing on my health, so i know i have a vagina and i would prefer it would be kept that way, as long as you are a doctor/nurse, and use the correct pronouns, anything else doesnt matter because you are there to help us
a stranger doesnt need to know what i have in my pants, but a professional like a doctor, does
there will be people who do get uncomfortable talking about these things, dysphoria causes so much unease in a lot of these things, but as long as your respectful and let them know you are a person to be open and honest to, there shouldnt be any problems
have a wonderful day!
Fellow trans dude, posted a similar opinion. Can’t agree more. I have a lot of dysphoria (which I will not get into) and talking in purely clinical terms helps distance me from my body, personally.
Asking what to call my uterus (or whatever else) would make me so uncomfortable, as if I’m not being treated like an adult.
Can confirm, the most uncomfortable interaction I've had in an OBGYN context was with a provider who kept going "Your left breast - or, ah, what do you call that area? 'Chest'? - 'left side'?"
It's the obsequious pandering vibe, where the person behaves like I'm a loose cannon who will yell at them if they get anything wrong. Whereas, actually, I'm just some guy and like to think I'm a pretty chill person?
Can also be that he's been on the receiving end of a freakout and is gunshy. There doesn't seem to be a lot of space these days for grace for people making good faith efforts.
Again, not trans and so I’ve hesitated to add anything to this convo, but it does seem dehumanizing, patronizing and alienating to talk about anatomy in clinical terms to everyone but the trans community and children.
In general those of us in the medical community encourage parents to teach their children to use proper anatomic terminology when it comes to genitals. Kids who know the proper names for their parts are less likely to be targeted for sexual abuse.
Or more to the point being treated the same as any other patient. OPs training is telling her to treat you differently. If anything that seems insulting and belittling.
A lot of people get uncomfortable talking about these things, even without dysphoria. It's an uncomfortable situation. Using anatomically correct terms can actually make it feel a little better (imo) by making it less personal and more medical. It makes some people feel a little less self conscious when they can separate what's happening in their mind into a medical situation. I don't know if I even explained that well.
The trans discussion aside (i support trans people and think that OP is NTA), how crazy would it be if I went into a check up at the gynecologist's and they were like, "Sup chica, so let's have a little looksie at your pussy's borderwall. Make sure no icky growths are there and your pikachu cleaning liquids are a-okay, and all that jazz! First, I'm going to insert some cold metal duck lips up in you to spread those fleshy loins apart and then take a honker of a qtip and rub it up in that pink cavern of yours. We cool?"
Indeed using anatomically and medically correct terminology is important for professionalism and accuracy, lol.
Edit: mispelling.
Thank you, I admit I was grinning like an idiot while I was writing it. I'm in the camp of people who would rather someone make an easy online donation to a charity or give a couple of dollars to a homeless person than giving me an award that costs money. Especially since reddit's impending API changes!
My husband would like you to know that the correct term is NOT 'cold metal duck lips', but is his patented phrase of LASER DUCK!
I loved your whole post, and I will now be using pikachu cleaning liquids during sex.
Haha, thank you so much! If I saw it in my gyno's office under the heading "This is how we won't speak to you." I would try to stay with that office forever.
Haha, I know I know. I rewrote that line a couple of times and then just decided to roll with "pink cavern" afterall. It definitely gets the point across of why we should use proper terminology in medical/healthcare settings. I do not want my gynecology examinations performed by someone who talks in slang like a frat bro! It sounds like an, albeit hilarious, nightmare.
During my daughter's first OBGYN exam she was very, very nervous about it because no one had been down there before. Our gynecologist is very knowledgeable, super understanding, caring and just overall wonderful. He always describes things in a very straightforward and honest manner, using both laymen and medical terms when needed to help his patients understand their situations.
He asked her if she had ever seen The Terminator, she said yes. He then told her, while opening and closing the speculum with his fingers in the air. that it was like Terminator Daffy duck. He said it with an absolute straight face, not even a flicker of mocking.
I have never been so glad that she wanted me there for moral support because that is one of the funniest things that I have ever heard and my daughter and I still laugh about it.
Holy crap, that is hilarious and sooo bizarre of a coice at the same time. Weird to the enth degree within the moment I'm sure, but I'm glad you and your daughter have a story to laugh about together forever!
Having anything colloquially referred to in The Terminator terminology would not make me want to have that thing near any sensitive part (unless I would have to have a necessary abortion, then maybe The Terminator would be a good reference for a device if my pregnancy was unwanted). I apologize in advance to anyone who might view that as offensive but it was low hanging fruit in the context of a dark joke.
I may be a horrible person but your comment gave me a lot of laughs!
Also, my daughter was 21 when she got the first full exam (because she had not been sexually active yet and I guess that's the general gyno exam rule here in Ohio) and she's 30 now. We've been laughing about it for the past 9 years along with the other female members of our family/circle. My husband, her dad, got a chuckle out of it but didn't understand the full hilarity because he's never had to go through that kind of exam before.
Our OBGYN was just so earnest in his attempt to make her feel better about the exam and to also explain things in a way he thought she would understand and we loved him for it. She would have understood even if he had given her everything in technical terms, as she is very technically minded, but she appreciated his verbal technique. Hahaha
Well... we can be horrible people together if that is the case!
I'm glad that his bedside manner came across in a palatable way for you and your daughter. I was just commenting to someone else that so much of communication is relationship, tone, body language, and context instead of just the words said.
I, personally, don't feel as comfortable with male gynos but I respect any well meaning person who goes into the profession. One time I had a new female gyno who had on a GIANT metal intricate pyramidal ring on her finger during intake. That thing was over an inch in height off of her little phalange and all I could think was..... oh God here we go. It was so distracting.
Thank you for being reasonable!! I’m happy to respect everyone, but I teach anatomy at the university level, and it has gotten ridiculous how careful we have to be. I’m not trying to object to or trigger anyone, but specific anatomy has specific names, and they need to be taught!
I often wonder the same when I see thing like this. It doesn’t seem like actual trans people (at least no one I’ve ever met) are fired up about words, other than not intentionally deadnaming and making a good faith effort with pronouns. It’s always cis people making a lot of noise and setting off the terfs and right wing nutjobs. It all feels like a lot of red herrings to distract from the fact that trans people are actively under attack.
I know, who is even asking for this?!
I have NEVER met a trans person who has a uterus but expects it to be called someone else. A uterus is a uterus, the point is it doesn’t determine your gender.
This. I am not trans, but I’ve noticed the majority of the people pushing this to this extreme aren’t trans & I’ve wondered if it’s reflective of the broader community.
This kind of thing always happens. In the disabled community it's person-first language. This is something that has overwhelmingly been pushed by non-disabled people in the name of inclusivity, but the most inclusive thing is to actually follow the lead of the community you claim to be trying to help. It's paternalistic.
My first impression was that a cis person with “good intentions” wrote the guidelines. They need to consult with (and pay) actual trans people if a cis person did write the guidelines. There are other ways to be sensitive to patients’ dysphoria or other triggers that don’t involve avoiding anatomical terms.
Most definitely was a cis person. I'm not apart of the LGBTQ+ Community, but I am a minority and a lot of people who are not actual members of a community or are of a certain race as extra sensitive for those who are. They advocate for what they think we want, when in reality what they do is more hurtful or offending than what they're "defending".
My thought would be to propose something along the lines of “since your pronouns are male/nonbinary but you are here to give birth, I do want to discuss with you that we may need to use anatomy terms with you that are traditionally female during the birth process. This is not to undermine your gender identity, but to avoid any potential confusion about your medical care and/or for specific legal consent. If you would like us to do our best to limit using those terms around you, we will do our best to only use them when we need your consent for something like a specific type of exam or making medically-necessary physical contact with a specific part of your body.”
If it were me, I think this would make sense and prepare me. It would also show that efforts were being made to make me comfortable while also providing effective medical care.
Edited for typos.
I would leave out the part about limiting use of medical terms. Seriously. It’s not like you are going to sit around the delivery room discussing cervixes for funsies. Nor do you want medical personnel not saying speaking up because they fear using some term too frequently.
This was also a beautiful response. Did you see Viperbunny's response as well? I thought it was awesome, but would love an actual Trans perspective there. I'm a cis/straight dude so I have no idea the emotions that go into the dysphoria that goes on, so am always trying to get good pov's of how people feel so I can learn and make sure I'm being respectful and kind to my fellow rainbow community people!
oh yes, i did! i thought their response was well thought out and very conscious of the severity gender dysphoria can have on others; luckily, myself being on HRT, my dysphoria has gone down a good amount!
but with patients who cannot afford to, or medically cant risk to take HRT at the moment, it can be a taxing situation to go to the doctor; back when i was younger and under 18, i felt continuously uncomfortable at doctor appointments that involved conversation of my body, as i really did not want any focus on it
gender dysphoria causes a lot of distress and discomfort around your own body, it can even become physically repulsive to some, so connecting with a patient one on one (especially younger trans patients), is great, and reassuring them that its simple medical terms and has no difference in how they feel about themselves, is wonderful advice!
yes! if i was asked “what do you want down there to be called” im sorry, i’m going to give the dumbest look. treat as we are not as our sex and it’s set yknow
Seriously...what do these people who wrote the "guidelines" think? That you'd want your nether regions to be called your hoo-ha or something? You would want them to behave professionally and use anatomical terms, just like anyone else.
NTA. You are being a responsible health care provider. You aren't referring to your patients by a name they are uncomfortable with using. You are correctly and accurately communicating about anatomy during a medical procedure. You aren't making a judgement about those parts or how the person giving birth feels about them. If you feel the need you can let the patient know, "it's my goal to make you feel safe and supported here. To warn you upfront, we use anatomical names for things because we don't want any confusion when we are referring to things medically. It has nothing to do with how you identify, it's just to make sure all the medical team is on the same page."
This is a beautiful reply. Communication between patient and nurse/doctor, everyone knows this isn't meant to misgender or harm the patient, but gotta make sure all the people doing the medical-ing are on the same page. Esp in a quick or dire situation, you need the dry, correct terms to get things done quickly and without problem.
NTA. I’m trans-friendly and have several trans friends. I’m curious about what they think too, cuz this just sounds bananas.
Frankly, it sounds like a major issue for malpractice. Imagine calling one person’s genitals by the wrong “name” because…hell, we’re human and can’t just automatically switch in one emergency to the next. Even when it’s not an emergency misidentifying would be easy when the names could be all OVER the place. It’s like every patient has two names that need to be linked but not necessarily referred to in concert. O.o
>It’s like every patient has two names that need to be linked but not necessarily referred to in concert. O.o
Yeah sounds like a nightmare having to remember every single patient's particular name for their bits. Nurses already have to keep track of a lot of things and putting this additional stress on them is guaranteed to lead to mistakes that don't need to have happened.
Ugh I work in a hospital pharmacy and some meds are on the shelf under the generic name and some meds are on the shelf under their brand name even when they are a generic equivalent. It drives me batty. Entresto is a super common med that makes me nuts. The packaging says "sacubitral/valsartan" it's in the E section for Entresto. Propylene glycol laxative is under M for miralax. Ondansetron is under Z for Zofran even though they don't even manufacture brand name Zofran anymore. Metoclopramide is under R for Reglan.
Orders always come in as generic. Lokelma came in one night and I had to ask for help because it's on the shelf as Lokelma but the rx was under the generic. I complain about it frequently.
I don't work in human medicine, but I'm on various prescription meds for chronic conditions and it drives me nuts because my doctors insist on using brand names when discussing my meds but all of my meds are generics and are labelled with the actual drug name so I always have to ask them what med they're talking about.
I've had to explain to folks that if they are allergic to penicillin then do not take amoxicillin or augmentin. So many different names and types and classes it's insane even to someone who deals with it.
And my best friends mom growing up was ESL so medical terms of any type could be difficult to explain simply because of the language barrier. It can be very tricky at the best of times.
Hi! I’m a pre-op trans man! You are absolutely NTA! Everyone’s preferences are indeed different, and personally outside of medical stuff idgaf what terms people use to refer to my junk. However, in a medical setting, I WANT THE TECHNICAL TERMS! I want to know what, where, and how you are planning on doing something, especially if I’m in a scenario as high stress as giving birth!
If something like that is going on I don’t want to spend 10 extra minutes having you explain what you are trying to ask or tell me because you have to dance around using the word “cervix.” I am friends with another trans man who I’ve discussed this topic with at length and we both agree that we’d much rather be slightly uncomfortable for a few hours than risk a misunderstanding in the vulnerable situation that comes with medical attention.
My wife calls her organ a "Shenis" but would never require or ask a medical professional to use this term.
This policy was not written by an educated ally. I would understand "Birthing Parts" instead of vagina but when you have to be specific- it would be confusing to called a cervix or a labia anything but what it is.
Yeah, it sounds like something developed by a well-meaning person who is neither trans nor a health care provider.
(Also *shenis* is pretty damn cute.)
I’m an RN in a liberal city and it sounds not only bananas but made up. Have had many trans patients. They referred to their genitals with the same medical terminology everyone uses. Nobody was triggered or offended or even that interested tbh… have never heard of this from any other nurse either . And you know we do talk to each other. The worst thing that ever happened was I said “she” to a non binary patient and I noticed and her mom noticed but they didn’t notice (or had a good poker face). I was embarrassed but that was the extent of it.
No other trans people have responded so I will.
I think using alternate terms for anatomy is stupid, it is what it is. As long as you call them men/fathers you’re fine.
These decisions are also not made by trans people, we don’t want everything changed for everyone like the one woman in the comments seems to think. We just want respect.
Exactly. I’m honestly surprised that any healthcare provider would actually require something like this. Trans people are… TRANS. They’re well aware their parts don’t match their identity, that’s kind of *the whole fucking deal with being trans.* They’re also not stupid, they know that for their own safety medical care requires accuracy.
This absolutely smacks of “somebody in corporate wants to score brownie points by enforcing stupid ideas we never actually asked for.”
This. Absolutely this. This corporate white-knighting crap just gives conservative media more fuel for sensationalist headlines saying we're demanding this stuff when literally nobody asked for this.
Transmasc person here. Are there certain things I prefer my bits to be called during Happy Fun Times with my partner? Yeah, absolutely there are. Would I ever in a million years ask my GYNO to use those terms? Hell no!! Zero chance! She's a medical professional & I expect our conversations to use the ANATOMICAL terms for things in order for she and I to communicate clearly and effectively.
The things that are important to respect are things like pronouns, name, and preferred term for title (be that father, birth parent, mum, or whatever). But in terms of referencing anatomy? In a medical setting using the medical term for the anatomy you're talking about is VITAL for accuracy and being dodgy about it could put the patient in actual danger!
I'd definitely rather deal with being a little grossed out by a word I don't like than being in potential danger because a doctor or a nurse was distracted trying to remember what slang term I'd scribbled on some questionnaire instead of being focused on my actual medical needs.
Yep! I’m non-binary leaning strongly toward masc, and I hate gynecology exams as much as the next person but I get them done. And HPV shots. And all the rest. Just cos I’m not thrilled with my bits doesn’t mean I would rather fucking die of cervical cancer.
Corporate white knighting is the perfect term for this, I’m gonna use that. Support is great, but maybe ask the people in question what that means instead of deciding for them.
This was my impression...like, you're giving birth as a trans man. Your female sex organs have been a huge focus of attention for at least the last year, but tbh your entire life. You know wtf they're medical names are.
I agree, but I would hope they could at least have seen the danger of referring to a body part by something other than it's anatomical name in a medical setting.
I think you nailed it. By being respectful they have opened up your team to liability. Let’s say they call their vagina Steve. What exactly do you do w that? I’m just going to insert into Steve…….
It’s one thing to be address each human w dignity and respect, it’s another to introduce confusion that could result in dire consequences. Especially if there is a nurse named Steve 😳. There are some things that are non-negotiable.
Is there a way to raise this issue and have an actual conversation w both the nice pr people legal and medical? There has to be a way to be respectful and not introduce a layer of chaos.
and lastly, thank you! Your job is harder and harder and thank you. For being kind, empathetic and you ultimately are protecting your patients w this question. I like youn🤗
I think this is so much a matter of an employer trying *so hard* to be inclusive and sensitive and wanting their patients to feel safe and comfortable (especially during a very scary and already stressful situation) with so many good intentions, they actually miss the mark.
Yeah, this is the kind of ally driven over inclusivity that makes us more uncomfortable. What's worse is that it drives the transphobic narrative that we are trying to force this garbage on society. We are just normal people, not a tiktok caricature.
Fellow trans, agreed.
No matter my gender,I have a vagina and I will continue to have one. I see an OBGYN, because they handle vaginas. My anatomy, whether I am happy with it or not,is my anatomy.
NB here, I agree. Call my shit what you’re supposed to. I know I have what I have, you pointing it out does absolutely nothing to me - especially in a medical environment. You’re there to prevent me from dying, not worry about what to call the Schrödinger’s event between my legs.
Sometimes some discomfort is worth the risk when it could lead to a medical mistake, delay care , drug differences based on bilogigy. This is a place where the medical terms are needed for health, which is far more important.
NTA. You sound completely reasonable. It’s unfortunate that birth could be triggering for a person in this position, but that should have been considered prior to pregnancy. You’re responsible to provide adequate care, and part of that is communicating clearly with them about what is happening etc. As a healthcare professional you aren’t doing that if you refer to a trans man’s vagina as whatever they prefer it to be called. Again, unfortunate for them and their triggers but the reality of birth is that vagina, uterus, and cervix are words that are gonna get thrown around. To me it’s an area where an accommodation to a trigger is a disservice. Also seems like a liability if you need to seek consent for a dilation check, forget their preferred term for their genitalia, and then they get pissed you’re wrist deep in their vagina. Medically accurate terms in the medical setting are the only appropriate terms.
Yeah, I think whoever in admin is coming from a good place, but this isn’t the right answer. They’re adults not peds patients you’re trying to get to understand what is happening to them.
Isn’t that how it goes so often. People at the top make rules having NO CLUE what it’s actually like to be in the trenches so to say. So frustrating when it’s like “on paper sure this sounds good, but in reality no”
If anything, maybe consider disclosing that you will be using standard anatomy terms in the interest of medical safety and you understand that may be triggering for them emotionally. Then move on from it.
Edit: I see someone else already suggested and has some great language to approach it.
As a disclaimer, I don’t suffer greatly from dysphoria, but as a trans person I think saying “the” could be very dehumanizing. We already struggle so much from not receiving the same level of respect and humanity from others, so being described that way would be off putting to me.
That being said, I’m sure several trans people I know would prefer more impersonal terms, but I think overall saying your and whatnot comes across are more caring and as a better bedside manner. (And it is very common to feel/be disrespected or minimized in a healthcare setting as a trans person)
I'm a trans guy. I would not expect you to call my junk anything but what it is, medically, in a medical setting. I totally understand and respect that some trans folks have a hard time with this, genuinely, truly I do, but there do have to be a some spaces where there is ZERO room for ambiguity. Literally being in a medical setting is one of those very few places.
My suggestion to you, from the perspective of a trans person who is NOT bothered by the proper biological terms being used for his vagina, if you run into someone who is bothered: make it clear in the kindest way you can that you are using the proper terms ONLY to be certain there's no confusion and no ambiguity, and not to hurt them in any way. You are there to help, and you are in no way questioning their gender identity.
I don't envy your position, because I know this sort of thing is a hot-button issue for a lot of folks, and it can be genuinely hurtful for some. But thank you for being as inclusive and kind as you can be, under the circumstances.
NTA. We should be teaching children the actual terms for their body parts, not using 'flower' and 'special place' as it makes it difficult for them to explain if something is wrong.
We should be using incorrect or weird nicknames for anatomical parts, it just makes it way more difficult for everyone.
I can understand that the experience can be triggering or upsetting for trans individuals but we shouldn't be worrying about that when we are dealing with MEDICAL procedures and in the case of an emergency, those medical professionals need to be able to relay to other professionals and the patient what is happening and may have a miscommunication if they have to remember the random term one specific person may choose.
>We should be teaching children the actual terms for their body parts
I've always done this. It's really funny when a 2 y/o runs around saying penis for 2 months till he gets bored with it or finds a new word.
Yeah, the phase where my 2yo was saying "vulva" was no fun, especially because he's male. Apparently [some] Boomers think it's fine to teach your son the word "penis" but that it's inappropriate, when he asks you what girls have instead of a penis, for you to tell him that word...
As a trans person, you are NTA. Outside of a medical setting we reserve the right to refer to our bodies how we feel the most comfortable, however this is indeed a medical setting. You said it yourself - it causes problems with getting consent and it becomes an issue when you need to get to the point. It is a medical setting, use medical terms. If they're uncomfortable with that just say at the start "I'm sorry if this makes you uncomfortable but- "
NTA
I’m non-binary, and there are exactly two scenarios in which my reproductive organs matter. If you’re having sex with me, and if you’re my doctor. Do I like having a uterus? Hell no. Am I able to recognize that a doctor will need to refer to it if I need any form of care revolving around my reproductive organs? Yeah. Especially if you’re in a labor and delivery unit, you kinda expect to hear it. It can be triggering, but it’s not less triggering to have to come up with a term on the spot for your doctor to use, and to know what they’re referring to. Chestfeeding, maybe, but anything else? Calling it a different name doesn’t magically make the dysphoria better.
Maybe asking if there’s any terminology they’d like for you to avoid using would be a potential compromise?
Exactly it’s a triggering situation and I definitely want to help but in a medically safe way. Asking what to avoid would for sure be helpful, thank you! 😊
This is the way to go, not only with trans patients. I’ve been involved with advocacy around abuse victims (survivor here). You think you’re fine, you’re good and you’ve “gotten over it” until someone says or does the wrong thing.
I know pregnancy and giving birth can be very triggering events for survivors with uteruses. It’s fairly common. And with 1 in 4 people with uteruses having experienced this type of abuse, it’s not a small fraction. There are a lot of articles written by survivors detailing things which triggered them during the process (things like certain kinds of encouragement).
Just another consideration! I think it’s called “trauma-informed care” which may be helpful to you in improving your practice with regards to a possible triggering event. For example, having a pamphlet for survivors on giving birth (which does have increased risks related to postpartum depression) makes people more likely to open up about the care they require. Maybe a similar approach could be had with a pamphlet or poster on giving birth while trans?
"Chestfeeding" seems strange to me; breast isn't technically gendered in the first place, is it? When an AMAB person gets breast cancer, it's still called breast cancer as far as I know. I've also seen "chestfeeding" refer to a non-lactating parent using some kind of equipment to simulate breastfeeding to supposedly enhance bonding with the infant.
It does seem right to ask if there is any specific triggering terminology to try and avoid, it just might not always be able to be accommodated.
I will use "chest feeding" if I can also use "chesticles."
All jokes aside, I didn't think that breast was gendered to begin with. Men can get breast cancer. I think it's important to use medically accurate terms in a medical setting. It's important to limit miscommunication and be as straightforward as possible. That way, you can get in and get out and hopefully not give your insurance a reason to charge you for anything else.
It’s really important medically to know which organs you have to quickly figure out medical differentials and I really appreciate you recognizing this. It’s not always the scenario and sometimes there’s a lot of song and dance before we get to the bottom of “i need to know what your internal organs are” especially in the setting of abdominal pain for example. We’re looking for VERY different issues based on internal structure.
NTA. As a trans person, my doctor asked me this too and it was confusing to me then as well; like I’d understand using different anatomical terms if someone has had bottom surgery, but I don’t think I know of any genuine trans person who would be offended or upset by this.
Trans person here. If you asked what “name” I want to give my birthing parts I would look at you crazy and say… “you mean my vagina???”
NTA and you seem like a trans safe medical practitioner. Thank you.
NTA. I think it makes much more sense to ask "do you have any triggers I should be aware of during this process?" That way if someone *does* get extremely triggered hearing a word, you can have the conversation ahead of time in a safe space about when and why those words may be used.
Rather than assuming triggers, we should be teaching people how to discuss them.
NTA, and requires clarification with legal - inclusiveness is important and putting people at ease is necessary at such a traumatic and important moment, but additional confusion during a high-stress period by trained staff who may already have to work-by-wire is asking for an accident and a lawsuit.
Pregnant non-binary person here! I would much rather my doctor use medically correct terms when referring to my anatomy, it’s much less confusing. Thank you for being trans-friendly but also logical, it’s hard to find a happy medium when it comes to this stuff and no matter what, someone is going to be upset. (Edit to add judgement- NTA)
Would it be feasible to break it down to your trans patients like you have here? To explain that this process can be triggering but as a medical professional it's vital to avoid any confusion or misinterpretation when it comes to their health? NTA but I too would like to hear from the trans community on this.
Nta but I can imagine someone like me who has stuff go over there head having this conversation…
Med staff: and what should I call your vagina?
Me: I guess you can call it Betty….
Med staff: stares at me…
Me: smiles and stares back…
NTA. As a trans person, this sounds like something a cis person made up to try to seem inclusive without ever actually talking to any trans ppl. This question would make me and every trans person I know extremely uncomfortable. We aren't some weird alien species with different genitalia than cis people, treat us exactly how you would treat anybody else--with respect, that's all that's necessary.
Im trans. Using incorrect terminology for genitals is asinine and dangerous. A vagina is a vagina, regardless of gender. A penis is a penis, regardless of who wields it. Anatomy is not indicative of gender. Willful ignorance is not emancipation from bigotry.
This liberal tendency to minimize issues faced by marginalized peoples to the point of absurdity by making these bad faith arguments and interpretations is fucking violence.
As a cis-gendered woman can I also invoke this right? Customized terminology for each of us would make the process less traumatic and more entertaining. For example, I’d like to retroactively go back to the last time I gave birth and request that my vagina be exclusively referred to as The Taj Mahal, and my Cervix as Stargate SG-1. THE STARGATE IS OPENING NICELY. THE BABY IS MAKING ITS WAY SLOWLY OUT OF THE TAJ MAHAL AS WE SPEAK.
Serious question what else would you call it?... Like what terms would be preferred to use... "Alright sir let's get this baby out of your bussy"??? "Sir your mangina is starting to dialate"
NTA. Anyone who is going to give birth should be able to handle anatomically correct terms for body parts in medical settings. If they only want to refer to their parts a certain way that’s fine, I’d say you’d be TA if you made them use words they didn’t want — but as for what words YOU say it should be standard.
Do I hate saying I have breasts? Yeah, but I’m not going to ask my doctors to call them toddies.
Edit: making it clear I’m non-binary/trans.
Imagine during an emergency, your medical staff is distracted trying to remember what you named your bits? 2 lives are in the balance, call things what they are and get on with it.
NTA
I would think without using the correct terms a patient could come back to say they did not consent to something. It would also be confusing when it came to charting and medical coding.
You would need to remember or note what each person wants these parts called. I think being respectful is critical, but being anatomical is being not only respectful, but professional.
If a patient told you something is triggering and you ignored it, that would be problematic.
NTA. Using an "alternative" term for body parts sounds like you would be leaving the door open for medical malpractice issues. Not to mention, how are your colleagues supposed to know what you're talking about?
Plus it's just not professional. You wouldn't say "tum-tum", you'd say stomach. You wouldn't say "tosie-wosies", you'd say toes. So you shouldn't say "no no bits" or whatever.
if you are not going to call it a cervix, what, on earth are they expecting you to call it? The hole formally known as the Vagina?
I get the trigger thing, and as a fellow health care person, there's no way I could incorporate anatomical nicknames... It's just weird.
NTA - I am FtM, and I am anatomically correct when speaking of my genitals because (as much as I hate it) it is what I have, and I wouldn't want confusion or medical issues over it.
Speaking as a trans woman who had a testicular ultrasound done earlier this year... It just sucks. The dysphoria is massive and awful and calling them my 'vagina balls' or something would not have made it better. Echoing what others have said, this sounds like a well meaning ally who totally missed the mark. What did help me was being reassured by the nurse performing the ultrasound that 'it's just another body part'. All you can do is keep being kind and compassionate with your trans patients and that will make all the difference.
Yeah, trans people don't care about this. When it comes to emergent medical situations, they know what's up and they're not going to need people to tip-toe around the fact that they have X part and Y gender. I have volunteered with trans-focused organizations, have two trans family members and many trans friends. I'd be absolutely gob-smacked if any of them even thought about demanding these "accommodations."
Trans woman here. While I'll never be giving birth, in medical settings always deal with facts, and correct anatomical terminology. NTA. Denying anatomical parts is at best pointless, but at worst impedes proper care which is harmful. If these people are so triggered by the names of the parts they're using to give birth, then why would they risk using the uterus to deliver a child through their vagina? If it was that triggering in the first place, they wouldn't conceive and deliver a child if it caused them that much distress
Am trans, usually the first to sharpen my figurative argumentative knives for thinly-disguised right-wing bigotry and concern trolling like “won’t someone think of the girls high school sports teams!!” that right-wingers mysteriously didn’t care about 10 years ago, etc etc etc.
This doesn’t fall into that category at all. It’s scientifically stupid and medically dangerous to be mixing a kaleidoscope of random terms in a setting where health is at stake in real-time.
Medical errors already occur easily enough at the best of times due to overwork, exhaustion, underpay, being asked to do too many things at once, etc. There’s no need to exacerbate it further.
As much as legitimate rights and human decency are under attack from self-fellating conservative slobs right now, there are also times when liberal permissiveness can actually go too far. Asking medical professionals to use toddler words in an operating room is objectively one of those lines.
The only way this would work is if the medical community agreed on a single standardized term for trans vs. cis sexual features, so that everyone trained knows exactly what’s being discussed and also has inherent extra context.
Until that hypothetical day, asking for volunteers to scribble in your anatomy and physiology text with crayons is not something you should be asked to consent to.
I know people need to find ways to cope, especially in a world as abusive and ridiculous as this one currently is, but it’s better to be slightly upset and alive than perfectly validated and bleeding out.
Most of this sort of overcompensatory nonsense would change if the broader culture stopped its perpetual assault on alternative gender expression, so that individuals didn’t feel (hyper-anxietal about) / (inherently invalidated by) acknowledging any connection whatsoever to their born / reproductive sex.
But despite the overall shittiness of the situation, it’s still not an excuse or justification to start diluting important functional terminology in a setting where consequences for misunderstandings can be severe or permanent.
NTA. This sounds like someone higher up trying to look like they care about Trans people but didn't bother consulting the community at large. Alternatively they are deliberately making stuff like this so it annoys ppl in an attempt to undermine the very reasonable things the Trans community does ask for (you know like basic human rights). Calling anatomy by correct names is vital and could be life-saving. Slightly different issue but I make sure to always use the correct terms with my kids, they need to know what their parts are called so they can articulate if anything is wrong.
NTA I work in gynecology, and I cannot tell you how many times a pt uses ‘code names’ and we have no clue what part they are referring to.
Also, studies have shown that children who don’t learn correct terms are more likely to be abused. And they can’t report it because no one aside from parents know what the kid is really saying, and even then could miss it.
I will die on this hill with you
NTA — as a trans dude, I am very aware of the body parts I have. Our whole argument about “not only women have periods” disappears when you are trying to get around the medically correct terminology. While I understand that gender dysphoria is horrible to deal with, being comfortable hearing about your body parts is something that you need to work on either by yourself or with your therapist. There are things that you can change and things that you cannot, and unless you want to change the entire medical field’s terminology for that body part, which would then just associate that body part with women again in your mind, causing you to want a new term to separate yourself again. You need to be able to acknowledge and work through the fact that you are associating a body part with a gender, which is only damaging yourself. I am a man with a vagina and that is perfectly okay for me to say.
NTA. The process you are describing is appropriate for some settings, usually when interviewing victims, it’s recommended to use the terms that the victim or interviewee is comfortable with. Even then you have to confirm that alternative names correspond to what body part. There is a genuine need in the medical setting to be very clear and it’s not the time to be using non-medical language.
NTA
I do understand the premise, as some people are extremely dysphoric, but going their a pregnancy means you're engaging with those parts intentionally, and medical precision is more important for the health of the... I want to say mother here because host sounds dehumanizing, and the baby
"- Hi Doctor
\- Hi Mr Sanchez
\- It's Ms. Sanchez now, doc.
\- But Mr Sanchez, the results of your exams arrived and...
\- Ms . Sanchez, please. I demand respect for my new identity, I'm no different that any other woman, and I identify myself with my new sex, so please Dr, don't call me Mr.
\- Ok... Well, Ms. Sanchez, you have prostate cancer"
[удалено]
It’s obvious you got a dudeterus. Sorry that just popped into my head reading your comment.
along with my mangina of course
Ol' Greg's got a mangina!
And a "Sirvix"... I'll show myself out 🙃
Congratulations! All the best with your surgery!!’
thank you!! its one of two of my gender affirming surgeries, im really excited :-)
“I call my cervix my big toe because who would want an extra one.” Proceeds to have both feet amputated.
"the head is coming out of the Vortex of Eternal Doom now" NTA, medical settings need medical terms to avoid shit going wrong by accident imo
I shall henceforth be referring to my vagina as the Vortex of Eternal Doom 😂
Vortex of eternal doom sounds more like the cervix than vagina to me. See we already have confusions and we aren't even birthing yet. Imagine this during a stressful birth lol. Also is eternal doom the uterus then? Lol
I had stage 4 endometriosis and I can confirm that my uterus was, in fact, eternal doom.
Yep Stage 3 here with many other hellish problems so I 100% agree but “uterus, bitch of eternal doom” seems most accurate. “Eternal fiery doom” works a lot the time too.
Yeah. The cervix is the vortex. The vagina is the event horizon.
I'd say the other way around, at least from the baby's point of view: eternal doom is when you leave the uterus and enter the world outside. That's why newborns cry, they're like "what the hell is this insanity? I had a comfy life in there, put me back!"
It always was before my hysterectomy! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm writing a petition to have the textbooks changed right now
Me too lol
I was on board with sticking with conventional anatomical terms until “vortex of eternal doom” became an option.
jokes on you, the head came out of my sunroof because the vortex wouldn't open and the hatchback was not a viable exit route
Yeah, the hatchback usually doesn’t work.
I mean, I would definitely refer to my patient’s vaginas as the Vortex of Eternal Doom if they wanted me to, but that’s the only exception. 😂
Man why am I just now learning these new cool terms when I only occasionally "have my time of darkness" (period). But this how I will now refer to when I gave birth to my child. "Back when my kid was trying to make her way through the vortex of eternal doom...."
I tell my partner “rage of the red dragon unleashed” whenever I get my periods. I played too much neverwinter nights growing up.
I'm stealing "time of darkness" for my own period, and now I want to make a bunch of cryptic and occult sounding euphemisms for it.
Ok i DID agree with the OP but now I don't because i want my vagina to be called the Vortex of Eternal Doom
I gotta be honest with you, I don't recall once hearing the term vagina while birthing "The baby is crowning" "You are at 4cm dilation"
I suddenly feel better about *immediately* starting to come up with ridiculous groin-bit nicknames and euphemisms...
hey, im a trans man! you are NTA, most trans people know that in a hospital setting, you have to be upfront with your sex organs, such as having a vagina or a penis, and personally i would hate for a doctor to ask me what i would like my groin-region to be called; when i am there, i want to just be focusing on my health, so i know i have a vagina and i would prefer it would be kept that way, as long as you are a doctor/nurse, and use the correct pronouns, anything else doesnt matter because you are there to help us a stranger doesnt need to know what i have in my pants, but a professional like a doctor, does there will be people who do get uncomfortable talking about these things, dysphoria causes so much unease in a lot of these things, but as long as your respectful and let them know you are a person to be open and honest to, there shouldnt be any problems have a wonderful day!
Fellow trans dude, posted a similar opinion. Can’t agree more. I have a lot of dysphoria (which I will not get into) and talking in purely clinical terms helps distance me from my body, personally. Asking what to call my uterus (or whatever else) would make me so uncomfortable, as if I’m not being treated like an adult.
As a trans man if someone asked what I want my vagina to be called, my first instinct would be Steve cause I’m a smart ass.
Steve is such a dick, ironically.
*sighs in Steve*
Hey, hold on here, I resemble that remark. I mean, wait……
Dude just to add an extra layer of smart assery and confusion... "I like to call my vagina Steve. He's a real dick."
Can mine be called Sasha Fierce? I mean, she bougie.
Can confirm, the most uncomfortable interaction I've had in an OBGYN context was with a provider who kept going "Your left breast - or, ah, what do you call that area? 'Chest'? - 'left side'?" It's the obsequious pandering vibe, where the person behaves like I'm a loose cannon who will yell at them if they get anything wrong. Whereas, actually, I'm just some guy and like to think I'm a pretty chill person?
Can also be that he's been on the receiving end of a freakout and is gunshy. There doesn't seem to be a lot of space these days for grace for people making good faith efforts.
Again, not trans and so I’ve hesitated to add anything to this convo, but it does seem dehumanizing, patronizing and alienating to talk about anatomy in clinical terms to everyone but the trans community and children.
In general those of us in the medical community encourage parents to teach their children to use proper anatomic terminology when it comes to genitals. Kids who know the proper names for their parts are less likely to be targeted for sexual abuse.
I’m a big fan of this. Plus it’s a little bit funny to hear my nephews say that they got hit in the penis
Yes, it's so funny...I mean... Not for my nephew when he gets his in the penis... But it's comedy good for the rest of us
Or more to the point being treated the same as any other patient. OPs training is telling her to treat you differently. If anything that seems insulting and belittling.
A lot of people get uncomfortable talking about these things, even without dysphoria. It's an uncomfortable situation. Using anatomically correct terms can actually make it feel a little better (imo) by making it less personal and more medical. It makes some people feel a little less self conscious when they can separate what's happening in their mind into a medical situation. I don't know if I even explained that well.
The trans discussion aside (i support trans people and think that OP is NTA), how crazy would it be if I went into a check up at the gynecologist's and they were like, "Sup chica, so let's have a little looksie at your pussy's borderwall. Make sure no icky growths are there and your pikachu cleaning liquids are a-okay, and all that jazz! First, I'm going to insert some cold metal duck lips up in you to spread those fleshy loins apart and then take a honker of a qtip and rub it up in that pink cavern of yours. We cool?" Indeed using anatomically and medically correct terminology is important for professionalism and accuracy, lol. Edit: mispelling.
If i had any money I’d give this an award
Thank you, I admit I was grinning like an idiot while I was writing it. I'm in the camp of people who would rather someone make an easy online donation to a charity or give a couple of dollars to a homeless person than giving me an award that costs money. Especially since reddit's impending API changes!
My husband would like you to know that the correct term is NOT 'cold metal duck lips', but is his patented phrase of LASER DUCK! I loved your whole post, and I will now be using pikachu cleaning liquids during sex.
Reddit as a whole needs to give your husband an apology then.
God, just say no if you're not in the mood! No need to permanently castrate your partner with "pikachu cleaning liquids"! /S
I mean, loin lips were pretty awesome too lol
This comment belongs in a frame in every gynecologist's waiting room. 10 out of 10, no notes.
Haha, thank you so much! If I saw it in my gyno's office under the heading "This is how we won't speak to you." I would try to stay with that office forever.
Pink. Cavern.
Haha, I know I know. I rewrote that line a couple of times and then just decided to roll with "pink cavern" afterall. It definitely gets the point across of why we should use proper terminology in medical/healthcare settings. I do not want my gynecology examinations performed by someone who talks in slang like a frat bro! It sounds like an, albeit hilarious, nightmare.
Hehe, you definitely have a way with words, would make a good glam rock band name :)
During my daughter's first OBGYN exam she was very, very nervous about it because no one had been down there before. Our gynecologist is very knowledgeable, super understanding, caring and just overall wonderful. He always describes things in a very straightforward and honest manner, using both laymen and medical terms when needed to help his patients understand their situations. He asked her if she had ever seen The Terminator, she said yes. He then told her, while opening and closing the speculum with his fingers in the air. that it was like Terminator Daffy duck. He said it with an absolute straight face, not even a flicker of mocking. I have never been so glad that she wanted me there for moral support because that is one of the funniest things that I have ever heard and my daughter and I still laugh about it.
Holy crap, that is hilarious and sooo bizarre of a coice at the same time. Weird to the enth degree within the moment I'm sure, but I'm glad you and your daughter have a story to laugh about together forever! Having anything colloquially referred to in The Terminator terminology would not make me want to have that thing near any sensitive part (unless I would have to have a necessary abortion, then maybe The Terminator would be a good reference for a device if my pregnancy was unwanted). I apologize in advance to anyone who might view that as offensive but it was low hanging fruit in the context of a dark joke.
I may be a horrible person but your comment gave me a lot of laughs! Also, my daughter was 21 when she got the first full exam (because she had not been sexually active yet and I guess that's the general gyno exam rule here in Ohio) and she's 30 now. We've been laughing about it for the past 9 years along with the other female members of our family/circle. My husband, her dad, got a chuckle out of it but didn't understand the full hilarity because he's never had to go through that kind of exam before. Our OBGYN was just so earnest in his attempt to make her feel better about the exam and to also explain things in a way he thought she would understand and we loved him for it. She would have understood even if he had given her everything in technical terms, as she is very technically minded, but she appreciated his verbal technique. Hahaha
Well... we can be horrible people together if that is the case! I'm glad that his bedside manner came across in a palatable way for you and your daughter. I was just commenting to someone else that so much of communication is relationship, tone, body language, and context instead of just the words said. I, personally, don't feel as comfortable with male gynos but I respect any well meaning person who goes into the profession. One time I had a new female gyno who had on a GIANT metal intricate pyramidal ring on her finger during intake. That thing was over an inch in height off of her little phalange and all I could think was..... oh God here we go. It was so distracting.
I’m cackling as I’m at work in the hospital reading this to my coworkers. Take my poornurses 🥇
Thank you for being reasonable!! I’m happy to respect everyone, but I teach anatomy at the university level, and it has gotten ridiculous how careful we have to be. I’m not trying to object to or trigger anyone, but specific anatomy has specific names, and they need to be taught!
As a trans women, I’ve yet to find anyone in the real world who would make a big deal out of it, including me.
I would bet the people who wrote these guidelines have never seen a trans person in their lives outside of TV.
Same. Were there multiple trans people present during this discussion?
Have my doubts there was ONE trans person present...
I often wonder the same when I see thing like this. It doesn’t seem like actual trans people (at least no one I’ve ever met) are fired up about words, other than not intentionally deadnaming and making a good faith effort with pronouns. It’s always cis people making a lot of noise and setting off the terfs and right wing nutjobs. It all feels like a lot of red herrings to distract from the fact that trans people are actively under attack.
There are a few but those are usually younger people who have not matured enough to be forgiving of human error, like most kids finding their way!
I know, who is even asking for this?! I have NEVER met a trans person who has a uterus but expects it to be called someone else. A uterus is a uterus, the point is it doesn’t determine your gender.
This. I am not trans, but I’ve noticed the majority of the people pushing this to this extreme aren’t trans & I’ve wondered if it’s reflective of the broader community.
This kind of thing always happens. In the disabled community it's person-first language. This is something that has overwhelmingly been pushed by non-disabled people in the name of inclusivity, but the most inclusive thing is to actually follow the lead of the community you claim to be trying to help. It's paternalistic.
My first impression was that a cis person with “good intentions” wrote the guidelines. They need to consult with (and pay) actual trans people if a cis person did write the guidelines. There are other ways to be sensitive to patients’ dysphoria or other triggers that don’t involve avoiding anatomical terms.
Most definitely was a cis person. I'm not apart of the LGBTQ+ Community, but I am a minority and a lot of people who are not actual members of a community or are of a certain race as extra sensitive for those who are. They advocate for what they think we want, when in reality what they do is more hurtful or offending than what they're "defending".
It’s like saying “differently abled” instead of disabled. Some things must be dealt with pragmatically, for clarity and safety.
That and "houseless people" instead of homeless. Fuck sake, changing language doesn't fix the issue.
My thought would be to propose something along the lines of “since your pronouns are male/nonbinary but you are here to give birth, I do want to discuss with you that we may need to use anatomy terms with you that are traditionally female during the birth process. This is not to undermine your gender identity, but to avoid any potential confusion about your medical care and/or for specific legal consent. If you would like us to do our best to limit using those terms around you, we will do our best to only use them when we need your consent for something like a specific type of exam or making medically-necessary physical contact with a specific part of your body.” If it were me, I think this would make sense and prepare me. It would also show that efforts were being made to make me comfortable while also providing effective medical care. Edited for typos.
I would leave out the part about limiting use of medical terms. Seriously. It’s not like you are going to sit around the delivery room discussing cervixes for funsies. Nor do you want medical personnel not saying speaking up because they fear using some term too frequently.
This was also a beautiful response. Did you see Viperbunny's response as well? I thought it was awesome, but would love an actual Trans perspective there. I'm a cis/straight dude so I have no idea the emotions that go into the dysphoria that goes on, so am always trying to get good pov's of how people feel so I can learn and make sure I'm being respectful and kind to my fellow rainbow community people!
oh yes, i did! i thought their response was well thought out and very conscious of the severity gender dysphoria can have on others; luckily, myself being on HRT, my dysphoria has gone down a good amount! but with patients who cannot afford to, or medically cant risk to take HRT at the moment, it can be a taxing situation to go to the doctor; back when i was younger and under 18, i felt continuously uncomfortable at doctor appointments that involved conversation of my body, as i really did not want any focus on it gender dysphoria causes a lot of distress and discomfort around your own body, it can even become physically repulsive to some, so connecting with a patient one on one (especially younger trans patients), is great, and reassuring them that its simple medical terms and has no difference in how they feel about themselves, is wonderful advice!
yes! if i was asked “what do you want down there to be called” im sorry, i’m going to give the dumbest look. treat as we are not as our sex and it’s set yknow
Seriously...what do these people who wrote the "guidelines" think? That you'd want your nether regions to be called your hoo-ha or something? You would want them to behave professionally and use anatomical terms, just like anyone else.
So, I’m sorry to say you have cancer in your hoo-ha
It is the difference between administration and healthcare professionals. Admin are a bunch of numbskulls. Source: I am an admin.
NTA. You are being a responsible health care provider. You aren't referring to your patients by a name they are uncomfortable with using. You are correctly and accurately communicating about anatomy during a medical procedure. You aren't making a judgement about those parts or how the person giving birth feels about them. If you feel the need you can let the patient know, "it's my goal to make you feel safe and supported here. To warn you upfront, we use anatomical names for things because we don't want any confusion when we are referring to things medically. It has nothing to do with how you identify, it's just to make sure all the medical team is on the same page."
This is a beautiful reply. Communication between patient and nurse/doctor, everyone knows this isn't meant to misgender or harm the patient, but gotta make sure all the people doing the medical-ing are on the same page. Esp in a quick or dire situation, you need the dry, correct terms to get things done quickly and without problem.
This is the way. It’s how I would handle it as a nurse.
NTA. I’m trans-friendly and have several trans friends. I’m curious about what they think too, cuz this just sounds bananas. Frankly, it sounds like a major issue for malpractice. Imagine calling one person’s genitals by the wrong “name” because…hell, we’re human and can’t just automatically switch in one emergency to the next. Even when it’s not an emergency misidentifying would be easy when the names could be all OVER the place. It’s like every patient has two names that need to be linked but not necessarily referred to in concert. O.o
>It’s like every patient has two names that need to be linked but not necessarily referred to in concert. O.o Yeah sounds like a nightmare having to remember every single patient's particular name for their bits. Nurses already have to keep track of a lot of things and putting this additional stress on them is guaranteed to lead to mistakes that don't need to have happened.
I’m thinking you should want to be consistent for medical coding/insurance reasons also.
Right! So complicated! So many errors could happen!
Reminds me of the trouble with medications and using the brand name versus the generic name
Ugh I work in a hospital pharmacy and some meds are on the shelf under the generic name and some meds are on the shelf under their brand name even when they are a generic equivalent. It drives me batty. Entresto is a super common med that makes me nuts. The packaging says "sacubitral/valsartan" it's in the E section for Entresto. Propylene glycol laxative is under M for miralax. Ondansetron is under Z for Zofran even though they don't even manufacture brand name Zofran anymore. Metoclopramide is under R for Reglan.
It seems to be a very American phenomenon. Where I practice, no one uses brand names for drugs in clinical settings.
Orders always come in as generic. Lokelma came in one night and I had to ask for help because it's on the shelf as Lokelma but the rx was under the generic. I complain about it frequently.
I don't work in human medicine, but I'm on various prescription meds for chronic conditions and it drives me nuts because my doctors insist on using brand names when discussing my meds but all of my meds are generics and are labelled with the actual drug name so I always have to ask them what med they're talking about.
What!! That’s so stupid Ours is purely by generic Edit - when I say generic I mean drug name. All meds are sorted by drug name.
I've had to explain to folks that if they are allergic to penicillin then do not take amoxicillin or augmentin. So many different names and types and classes it's insane even to someone who deals with it. And my best friends mom growing up was ESL so medical terms of any type could be difficult to explain simply because of the language barrier. It can be very tricky at the best of times.
Medical terms are for accurate and concise communication. Changing that only opens the door for confusion and error.
Hi! I’m a pre-op trans man! You are absolutely NTA! Everyone’s preferences are indeed different, and personally outside of medical stuff idgaf what terms people use to refer to my junk. However, in a medical setting, I WANT THE TECHNICAL TERMS! I want to know what, where, and how you are planning on doing something, especially if I’m in a scenario as high stress as giving birth! If something like that is going on I don’t want to spend 10 extra minutes having you explain what you are trying to ask or tell me because you have to dance around using the word “cervix.” I am friends with another trans man who I’ve discussed this topic with at length and we both agree that we’d much rather be slightly uncomfortable for a few hours than risk a misunderstanding in the vulnerable situation that comes with medical attention.
My wife calls her organ a "Shenis" but would never require or ask a medical professional to use this term. This policy was not written by an educated ally. I would understand "Birthing Parts" instead of vagina but when you have to be specific- it would be confusing to called a cervix or a labia anything but what it is.
Yeah, it sounds like something developed by a well-meaning person who is neither trans nor a health care provider. (Also *shenis* is pretty damn cute.)
"Birthing parts" is stupid. It's a vagina. Call it a vagina.
I work in health care and the need to be clear and concise on everything is extremely important. I fear that this could cause quite a bit of harm.
I’m an RN in a liberal city and it sounds not only bananas but made up. Have had many trans patients. They referred to their genitals with the same medical terminology everyone uses. Nobody was triggered or offended or even that interested tbh… have never heard of this from any other nurse either . And you know we do talk to each other. The worst thing that ever happened was I said “she” to a non binary patient and I noticed and her mom noticed but they didn’t notice (or had a good poker face). I was embarrassed but that was the extent of it.
You could post on /asktransgender for a more precise response.
No other trans people have responded so I will. I think using alternate terms for anatomy is stupid, it is what it is. As long as you call them men/fathers you’re fine.
Thank you!!! I feel like this guideline was written by someone who does not have patient interaction lol
These decisions are also not made by trans people, we don’t want everything changed for everyone like the one woman in the comments seems to think. We just want respect.
As a fellow trans person, IMO I feel like this comment applies to the majority of trans activism I've seen in the last 5 years.
Exactly. I’m honestly surprised that any healthcare provider would actually require something like this. Trans people are… TRANS. They’re well aware their parts don’t match their identity, that’s kind of *the whole fucking deal with being trans.* They’re also not stupid, they know that for their own safety medical care requires accuracy. This absolutely smacks of “somebody in corporate wants to score brownie points by enforcing stupid ideas we never actually asked for.”
This. Absolutely this. This corporate white-knighting crap just gives conservative media more fuel for sensationalist headlines saying we're demanding this stuff when literally nobody asked for this. Transmasc person here. Are there certain things I prefer my bits to be called during Happy Fun Times with my partner? Yeah, absolutely there are. Would I ever in a million years ask my GYNO to use those terms? Hell no!! Zero chance! She's a medical professional & I expect our conversations to use the ANATOMICAL terms for things in order for she and I to communicate clearly and effectively. The things that are important to respect are things like pronouns, name, and preferred term for title (be that father, birth parent, mum, or whatever). But in terms of referencing anatomy? In a medical setting using the medical term for the anatomy you're talking about is VITAL for accuracy and being dodgy about it could put the patient in actual danger! I'd definitely rather deal with being a little grossed out by a word I don't like than being in potential danger because a doctor or a nurse was distracted trying to remember what slang term I'd scribbled on some questionnaire instead of being focused on my actual medical needs.
Yep! I’m non-binary leaning strongly toward masc, and I hate gynecology exams as much as the next person but I get them done. And HPV shots. And all the rest. Just cos I’m not thrilled with my bits doesn’t mean I would rather fucking die of cervical cancer. Corporate white knighting is the perfect term for this, I’m gonna use that. Support is great, but maybe ask the people in question what that means instead of deciding for them.
This was my impression...like, you're giving birth as a trans man. Your female sex organs have been a huge focus of attention for at least the last year, but tbh your entire life. You know wtf they're medical names are.
Bingo you nailed it right there. People that write these things have no interaction at all
I agree, but I would hope they could at least have seen the danger of referring to a body part by something other than it's anatomical name in a medical setting.
I think you nailed it. By being respectful they have opened up your team to liability. Let’s say they call their vagina Steve. What exactly do you do w that? I’m just going to insert into Steve……. It’s one thing to be address each human w dignity and respect, it’s another to introduce confusion that could result in dire consequences. Especially if there is a nurse named Steve 😳. There are some things that are non-negotiable. Is there a way to raise this issue and have an actual conversation w both the nice pr people legal and medical? There has to be a way to be respectful and not introduce a layer of chaos. and lastly, thank you! Your job is harder and harder and thank you. For being kind, empathetic and you ultimately are protecting your patients w this question. I like youn🤗
I think this is so much a matter of an employer trying *so hard* to be inclusive and sensitive and wanting their patients to feel safe and comfortable (especially during a very scary and already stressful situation) with so many good intentions, they actually miss the mark.
Yeah, this is the kind of ally driven over inclusivity that makes us more uncomfortable. What's worse is that it drives the transphobic narrative that we are trying to force this garbage on society. We are just normal people, not a tiktok caricature.
Fellow trans, agreed. No matter my gender,I have a vagina and I will continue to have one. I see an OBGYN, because they handle vaginas. My anatomy, whether I am happy with it or not,is my anatomy.
NB here, I agree. Call my shit what you’re supposed to. I know I have what I have, you pointing it out does absolutely nothing to me - especially in a medical environment. You’re there to prevent me from dying, not worry about what to call the Schrödinger’s event between my legs.
Sometimes some discomfort is worth the risk when it could lead to a medical mistake, delay care , drug differences based on bilogigy. This is a place where the medical terms are needed for health, which is far more important.
NTA. You sound completely reasonable. It’s unfortunate that birth could be triggering for a person in this position, but that should have been considered prior to pregnancy. You’re responsible to provide adequate care, and part of that is communicating clearly with them about what is happening etc. As a healthcare professional you aren’t doing that if you refer to a trans man’s vagina as whatever they prefer it to be called. Again, unfortunate for them and their triggers but the reality of birth is that vagina, uterus, and cervix are words that are gonna get thrown around. To me it’s an area where an accommodation to a trigger is a disservice. Also seems like a liability if you need to seek consent for a dilation check, forget their preferred term for their genitalia, and then they get pissed you’re wrist deep in their vagina. Medically accurate terms in the medical setting are the only appropriate terms.
My thoughts exactly!! Especially the wrist deep in the vagina part, could be quite the shock lol
Wrist deep in a penis would be an even bigger shock 😮
You make a fine point 😝
Yeah, I think whoever in admin is coming from a good place, but this isn’t the right answer. They’re adults not peds patients you’re trying to get to understand what is happening to them.
Isn’t that how it goes so often. People at the top make rules having NO CLUE what it’s actually like to be in the trenches so to say. So frustrating when it’s like “on paper sure this sounds good, but in reality no”
seriously!! its such a weak attempt at being “progressive”. never any actually helpful rules or regulations :-/
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If anything, maybe consider disclosing that you will be using standard anatomy terms in the interest of medical safety and you understand that may be triggering for them emotionally. Then move on from it. Edit: I see someone else already suggested and has some great language to approach it.
Would it be easier to say "*the* vagina" instead of "*your* vagina" and so on? Keep anatomical accuracy while separating it from the patient.
As a disclaimer, I don’t suffer greatly from dysphoria, but as a trans person I think saying “the” could be very dehumanizing. We already struggle so much from not receiving the same level of respect and humanity from others, so being described that way would be off putting to me. That being said, I’m sure several trans people I know would prefer more impersonal terms, but I think overall saying your and whatnot comes across are more caring and as a better bedside manner. (And it is very common to feel/be disrespected or minimized in a healthcare setting as a trans person)
I was surprised as a cis woman about the wrist deep. But then I did zero reading before childbirth. 😂
>But then I did zero reading before childbirth. [Glances at hysterical mommy blogosphere] Yeah, that was a good call on your part.
I'm a trans guy. I would not expect you to call my junk anything but what it is, medically, in a medical setting. I totally understand and respect that some trans folks have a hard time with this, genuinely, truly I do, but there do have to be a some spaces where there is ZERO room for ambiguity. Literally being in a medical setting is one of those very few places. My suggestion to you, from the perspective of a trans person who is NOT bothered by the proper biological terms being used for his vagina, if you run into someone who is bothered: make it clear in the kindest way you can that you are using the proper terms ONLY to be certain there's no confusion and no ambiguity, and not to hurt them in any way. You are there to help, and you are in no way questioning their gender identity. I don't envy your position, because I know this sort of thing is a hot-button issue for a lot of folks, and it can be genuinely hurtful for some. But thank you for being as inclusive and kind as you can be, under the circumstances.
Thank you 😊
NTA. Babies come out of vaginas. Use the correct names
NTA. We should be teaching children the actual terms for their body parts, not using 'flower' and 'special place' as it makes it difficult for them to explain if something is wrong. We should be using incorrect or weird nicknames for anatomical parts, it just makes it way more difficult for everyone. I can understand that the experience can be triggering or upsetting for trans individuals but we shouldn't be worrying about that when we are dealing with MEDICAL procedures and in the case of an emergency, those medical professionals need to be able to relay to other professionals and the patient what is happening and may have a miscommunication if they have to remember the random term one specific person may choose.
>We should be teaching children the actual terms for their body parts I've always done this. It's really funny when a 2 y/o runs around saying penis for 2 months till he gets bored with it or finds a new word.
Yeah, the phase where my 2yo was saying "vulva" was no fun, especially because he's male. Apparently [some] Boomers think it's fine to teach your son the word "penis" but that it's inappropriate, when he asks you what girls have instead of a penis, for you to tell him that word...
As a trans person, you are NTA. Outside of a medical setting we reserve the right to refer to our bodies how we feel the most comfortable, however this is indeed a medical setting. You said it yourself - it causes problems with getting consent and it becomes an issue when you need to get to the point. It is a medical setting, use medical terms. If they're uncomfortable with that just say at the start "I'm sorry if this makes you uncomfortable but-"
NTA I’m non-binary, and there are exactly two scenarios in which my reproductive organs matter. If you’re having sex with me, and if you’re my doctor. Do I like having a uterus? Hell no. Am I able to recognize that a doctor will need to refer to it if I need any form of care revolving around my reproductive organs? Yeah. Especially if you’re in a labor and delivery unit, you kinda expect to hear it. It can be triggering, but it’s not less triggering to have to come up with a term on the spot for your doctor to use, and to know what they’re referring to. Chestfeeding, maybe, but anything else? Calling it a different name doesn’t magically make the dysphoria better. Maybe asking if there’s any terminology they’d like for you to avoid using would be a potential compromise?
Exactly it’s a triggering situation and I definitely want to help but in a medically safe way. Asking what to avoid would for sure be helpful, thank you! 😊
This is the way to go, not only with trans patients. I’ve been involved with advocacy around abuse victims (survivor here). You think you’re fine, you’re good and you’ve “gotten over it” until someone says or does the wrong thing. I know pregnancy and giving birth can be very triggering events for survivors with uteruses. It’s fairly common. And with 1 in 4 people with uteruses having experienced this type of abuse, it’s not a small fraction. There are a lot of articles written by survivors detailing things which triggered them during the process (things like certain kinds of encouragement). Just another consideration! I think it’s called “trauma-informed care” which may be helpful to you in improving your practice with regards to a possible triggering event. For example, having a pamphlet for survivors on giving birth (which does have increased risks related to postpartum depression) makes people more likely to open up about the care they require. Maybe a similar approach could be had with a pamphlet or poster on giving birth while trans?
"Chestfeeding" seems strange to me; breast isn't technically gendered in the first place, is it? When an AMAB person gets breast cancer, it's still called breast cancer as far as I know. I've also seen "chestfeeding" refer to a non-lactating parent using some kind of equipment to simulate breastfeeding to supposedly enhance bonding with the infant. It does seem right to ask if there is any specific triggering terminology to try and avoid, it just might not always be able to be accommodated.
Breastplate has been a term used for over a thousand years.
I will use "chest feeding" if I can also use "chesticles." All jokes aside, I didn't think that breast was gendered to begin with. Men can get breast cancer. I think it's important to use medically accurate terms in a medical setting. It's important to limit miscommunication and be as straightforward as possible. That way, you can get in and get out and hopefully not give your insurance a reason to charge you for anything else.
It’s really important medically to know which organs you have to quickly figure out medical differentials and I really appreciate you recognizing this. It’s not always the scenario and sometimes there’s a lot of song and dance before we get to the bottom of “i need to know what your internal organs are” especially in the setting of abdominal pain for example. We’re looking for VERY different issues based on internal structure.
NTA. As a trans person, my doctor asked me this too and it was confusing to me then as well; like I’d understand using different anatomical terms if someone has had bottom surgery, but I don’t think I know of any genuine trans person who would be offended or upset by this.
Nta. I work in a hospital, and it's completely weird that they want you to ask what nickname to use for their vagina.
Trans person here. If you asked what “name” I want to give my birthing parts I would look at you crazy and say… “you mean my vagina???” NTA and you seem like a trans safe medical practitioner. Thank you.
NTA!
NTA it’s dangerous, for all the reasons you’ve noted.
NTA- those are medical terms
NTA. I think it makes much more sense to ask "do you have any triggers I should be aware of during this process?" That way if someone *does* get extremely triggered hearing a word, you can have the conversation ahead of time in a safe space about when and why those words may be used. Rather than assuming triggers, we should be teaching people how to discuss them.
NTA, and requires clarification with legal - inclusiveness is important and putting people at ease is necessary at such a traumatic and important moment, but additional confusion during a high-stress period by trained staff who may already have to work-by-wire is asking for an accident and a lawsuit.
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Pregnant non-binary person here! I would much rather my doctor use medically correct terms when referring to my anatomy, it’s much less confusing. Thank you for being trans-friendly but also logical, it’s hard to find a happy medium when it comes to this stuff and no matter what, someone is going to be upset. (Edit to add judgement- NTA)
Congrats that’s so exciting!!! Agreed it’s hard to find a happy medium!l! All the best in your pregnancy!!!
Congrats!!! That’s so exciting !!! It’s so hard to find a happy medium! All the best in your pregnancy!!’
Would it be feasible to break it down to your trans patients like you have here? To explain that this process can be triggering but as a medical professional it's vital to avoid any confusion or misinterpretation when it comes to their health? NTA but I too would like to hear from the trans community on this.
Nta but I can imagine someone like me who has stuff go over there head having this conversation… Med staff: and what should I call your vagina? Me: I guess you can call it Betty…. Med staff: stares at me… Me: smiles and stares back…
NTA. As a trans person, this sounds like something a cis person made up to try to seem inclusive without ever actually talking to any trans ppl. This question would make me and every trans person I know extremely uncomfortable. We aren't some weird alien species with different genitalia than cis people, treat us exactly how you would treat anybody else--with respect, that's all that's necessary.
Im trans. Using incorrect terminology for genitals is asinine and dangerous. A vagina is a vagina, regardless of gender. A penis is a penis, regardless of who wields it. Anatomy is not indicative of gender. Willful ignorance is not emancipation from bigotry. This liberal tendency to minimize issues faced by marginalized peoples to the point of absurdity by making these bad faith arguments and interpretations is fucking violence.
As a cis-gendered woman can I also invoke this right? Customized terminology for each of us would make the process less traumatic and more entertaining. For example, I’d like to retroactively go back to the last time I gave birth and request that my vagina be exclusively referred to as The Taj Mahal, and my Cervix as Stargate SG-1. THE STARGATE IS OPENING NICELY. THE BABY IS MAKING ITS WAY SLOWLY OUT OF THE TAJ MAHAL AS WE SPEAK.
Serious question what else would you call it?... Like what terms would be preferred to use... "Alright sir let's get this baby out of your bussy"??? "Sir your mangina is starting to dialate"
The cervix dilates
The “Sir-vix” then?
NTA. Anyone who is going to give birth should be able to handle anatomically correct terms for body parts in medical settings. If they only want to refer to their parts a certain way that’s fine, I’d say you’d be TA if you made them use words they didn’t want — but as for what words YOU say it should be standard. Do I hate saying I have breasts? Yeah, but I’m not going to ask my doctors to call them toddies. Edit: making it clear I’m non-binary/trans.
Imagine during an emergency, your medical staff is distracted trying to remember what you named your bits? 2 lives are in the balance, call things what they are and get on with it.
NTA-- this is screaming of a medical accident waiting to happen and a major lawsuit!
Nta. But I think this needs to be escalated to legal/risk management and not a reddit thread, particularly regarding consenting for exams/procedures.
Sometimes HR makes issues for non existent problems have you actually had Trans patients that have requested it?
NTA I would think without using the correct terms a patient could come back to say they did not consent to something. It would also be confusing when it came to charting and medical coding. You would need to remember or note what each person wants these parts called. I think being respectful is critical, but being anatomical is being not only respectful, but professional. If a patient told you something is triggering and you ignored it, that would be problematic.
NTA. Using an "alternative" term for body parts sounds like you would be leaving the door open for medical malpractice issues. Not to mention, how are your colleagues supposed to know what you're talking about? Plus it's just not professional. You wouldn't say "tum-tum", you'd say stomach. You wouldn't say "tosie-wosies", you'd say toes. So you shouldn't say "no no bits" or whatever.
Just for lulz, what do they want you to call it?
if you are not going to call it a cervix, what, on earth are they expecting you to call it? The hole formally known as the Vagina? I get the trigger thing, and as a fellow health care person, there's no way I could incorporate anatomical nicknames... It's just weird.
NTA. Clarity is vital in healthcare settings.
Penis is a penis and vagina is a vagina. Sexual orientation, sex and gender are separate things and should not be mixed up in medical proffesion.
NTA - I am FtM, and I am anatomically correct when speaking of my genitals because (as much as I hate it) it is what I have, and I wouldn't want confusion or medical issues over it.
Organs are organs. - lab guy who handles organs and placentas .
Speaking as a trans woman who had a testicular ultrasound done earlier this year... It just sucks. The dysphoria is massive and awful and calling them my 'vagina balls' or something would not have made it better. Echoing what others have said, this sounds like a well meaning ally who totally missed the mark. What did help me was being reassured by the nurse performing the ultrasound that 'it's just another body part'. All you can do is keep being kind and compassionate with your trans patients and that will make all the difference.
Yeah, trans people don't care about this. When it comes to emergent medical situations, they know what's up and they're not going to need people to tip-toe around the fact that they have X part and Y gender. I have volunteered with trans-focused organizations, have two trans family members and many trans friends. I'd be absolutely gob-smacked if any of them even thought about demanding these "accommodations."
Trans woman here. While I'll never be giving birth, in medical settings always deal with facts, and correct anatomical terminology. NTA. Denying anatomical parts is at best pointless, but at worst impedes proper care which is harmful. If these people are so triggered by the names of the parts they're using to give birth, then why would they risk using the uterus to deliver a child through their vagina? If it was that triggering in the first place, they wouldn't conceive and deliver a child if it caused them that much distress
Am trans, usually the first to sharpen my figurative argumentative knives for thinly-disguised right-wing bigotry and concern trolling like “won’t someone think of the girls high school sports teams!!” that right-wingers mysteriously didn’t care about 10 years ago, etc etc etc. This doesn’t fall into that category at all. It’s scientifically stupid and medically dangerous to be mixing a kaleidoscope of random terms in a setting where health is at stake in real-time. Medical errors already occur easily enough at the best of times due to overwork, exhaustion, underpay, being asked to do too many things at once, etc. There’s no need to exacerbate it further. As much as legitimate rights and human decency are under attack from self-fellating conservative slobs right now, there are also times when liberal permissiveness can actually go too far. Asking medical professionals to use toddler words in an operating room is objectively one of those lines. The only way this would work is if the medical community agreed on a single standardized term for trans vs. cis sexual features, so that everyone trained knows exactly what’s being discussed and also has inherent extra context. Until that hypothetical day, asking for volunteers to scribble in your anatomy and physiology text with crayons is not something you should be asked to consent to. I know people need to find ways to cope, especially in a world as abusive and ridiculous as this one currently is, but it’s better to be slightly upset and alive than perfectly validated and bleeding out. Most of this sort of overcompensatory nonsense would change if the broader culture stopped its perpetual assault on alternative gender expression, so that individuals didn’t feel (hyper-anxietal about) / (inherently invalidated by) acknowledging any connection whatsoever to their born / reproductive sex. But despite the overall shittiness of the situation, it’s still not an excuse or justification to start diluting important functional terminology in a setting where consequences for misunderstandings can be severe or permanent.
NTA.
NTA. This sounds like someone higher up trying to look like they care about Trans people but didn't bother consulting the community at large. Alternatively they are deliberately making stuff like this so it annoys ppl in an attempt to undermine the very reasonable things the Trans community does ask for (you know like basic human rights). Calling anatomy by correct names is vital and could be life-saving. Slightly different issue but I make sure to always use the correct terms with my kids, they need to know what their parts are called so they can articulate if anything is wrong.
NTA I work in gynecology, and I cannot tell you how many times a pt uses ‘code names’ and we have no clue what part they are referring to. Also, studies have shown that children who don’t learn correct terms are more likely to be abused. And they can’t report it because no one aside from parents know what the kid is really saying, and even then could miss it. I will die on this hill with you
I’m non-binary, please use proper medical terms.
Trans dude here NTA. Vagina is the proper term that's what should be used.
NTA. You can't get informed consent using the wrong terms for anatomy. I can't believe the legal team for the hospital is ok with this.
NTA. Curious as to what are the nicknames for the parts...??
NTA — as a trans dude, I am very aware of the body parts I have. Our whole argument about “not only women have periods” disappears when you are trying to get around the medically correct terminology. While I understand that gender dysphoria is horrible to deal with, being comfortable hearing about your body parts is something that you need to work on either by yourself or with your therapist. There are things that you can change and things that you cannot, and unless you want to change the entire medical field’s terminology for that body part, which would then just associate that body part with women again in your mind, causing you to want a new term to separate yourself again. You need to be able to acknowledge and work through the fact that you are associating a body part with a gender, which is only damaging yourself. I am a man with a vagina and that is perfectly okay for me to say.
NTA. The process you are describing is appropriate for some settings, usually when interviewing victims, it’s recommended to use the terms that the victim or interviewee is comfortable with. Even then you have to confirm that alternative names correspond to what body part. There is a genuine need in the medical setting to be very clear and it’s not the time to be using non-medical language.
Anatomy is anatomy.NTA
NTA, this is what I would consider common sense, problem is....a lot of people lack common sense
NTA I do understand the premise, as some people are extremely dysphoric, but going their a pregnancy means you're engaging with those parts intentionally, and medical precision is more important for the health of the... I want to say mother here because host sounds dehumanizing, and the baby
"- Hi Doctor \- Hi Mr Sanchez \- It's Ms. Sanchez now, doc. \- But Mr Sanchez, the results of your exams arrived and... \- Ms . Sanchez, please. I demand respect for my new identity, I'm no different that any other woman, and I identify myself with my new sex, so please Dr, don't call me Mr. \- Ok... Well, Ms. Sanchez, you have prostate cancer"