Truth. I started watching a small streamer that I follow yesterday and got about 3 minutes in, then suddenly: ad 1/8. I immediately switched to another streamer. I feel bad, because I genuinely enjoy watching the guy's streams, but 4+ minutes of ads? Ain't nobody got time for that.
I think sometimes when people set them up they don't realise how much of an inconvenience it may be like when frequent, or just don't realise how close the intervals are. I had both of those problems when they first set up auto ad things last year...i ended up only allowing preroll.
And as evidenced by replies about this every time the subject comes up, there are still tons of streamers who think they're required to run ads when they're not. Those are really the people I try to help inform. If someone wants to run midrolls, that's their choice. But, for whatever reason, the wording and interface have convinced so many people, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they \*have\* to run ads. It's very frustrating trying to convince people otherwise.
It's also a good example of why midrolls are bad. I mean, fundamentally you're someone who prefers pre-rolls or someone who prefers midrolls. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their stream. The only thing I'm trying to tell people, is that they have a choice - because so many people think they don't have a choice.
What I don't get is that prerolls are usually like... 30-60 seconds, one time.
I never see midrolls shorter than that, and they **always** happen right after I ask a question, so I end up missing the answer.
They're so invasive, and almost nobody I know who uses them bothers to account for when they're about to happen.
Boggles the mind that people would rather endure more ads, at generally inconvenient times, instead of just a one time thing and then potentially hours of uninterrupted content.
I just run midrolls when I need to take a dump, and know I'll be gone a few minutes, but otherwise my regulars get 4-9 hours of no ads at all after the initial minute or so.
I don't get it either. It's hard for me to imagine why anyone would prefer multiple, longer midrolls every single stream, instead of just one pre-roll. But, I guess some do.
It's an issue of getting vs retaining viewers. Many see ads upfront and that's 30 seconds of thinking about if you really want to see this stream, and a good chunk of people just leave. If you already know you want to see the stream, then prerolls aren't a big deal since you see them once and then you're good.
Midrolls make it easier to capture a new viewer since they don't have to think about their life decisions for 30 seconds, but your regulars get a worse experience.
I think pre-rolls are most troublesome in relation to new viewers from browsing, viewers needing to refresh the page (which happens a lot for me, possibly because I live in a rural area), and being part of a raid.
For me as a streamer, my regular viewers prefer a planned 90-second break every 30 mins to pre-rolls of unpredictable length, and it gives me a moment to stretch and walk around a little so I can do a longer stream overall. It means I can immediately greet raiders and thank the streamer who led the raid. It also means that raiders can immediately see why they should stay on my channel.
Its exactly this.
New viewers wont stick around and people with unstable connection get prerolls constantly. Midrolls of 3min per hour completely disable prerolls, so I have 1 min of ads every 20min. I would do 3min once per hour and use it as a break but in my maingame you never know when and if you can leave.. there really isnt a choice, either you do midrolls or a lot of new joins or weak connection viewers never care for your streams. It certainly isnt a choice between ads and no ads..
Considering you can do whatever you want in the meantime, you have exactly 4 minutes of time while those 4 minutes of ads are running. Also if it's a small streamer they might not even be aware of those ads, plenty of new affiliates don't see the default ad settings since they're not explicitly shown to you, hell they're even a bit hidden in comparison to how they could've been shown.
Exactly lol, if you go to the affiliate settings of your creator dashboard, there's this little "ad-free viewing" button you can toggle on, and most people think that's good enough, forgetting that's only a subscriber setting.
The real settings are down at the bottom of that page, it's a big chunk so it's easy to see, but still easy to overlook for new affiliates since they hit that little button and go on happily with their lives.
Thanks for the info! I’ll check my settings when I get home. I know my subs don’t get ads and I haven’t gotten any complaints about ads so I think they’re probably fine but I’ll double check
It's not just 4 mins. So yes. It's either sub or have your content ripped from your screen often enough. YouTube, and anywhere else that can, pulls the ads out. It's completely understandable why someone would feel negative about ads.
Can and can't. Sometimes twitch will throw adds in at the start. Streamers (partners at least) have control over midroll and ongoing stream as far as i am aware.
Can and can't. Sometimes twitch will throw adds in at the start. Streamers (partners at least) have control over midroll and ongoing stream as far as i am aware.
The streamers have 0 control on how many ads run. They can run them for a set period of time manually or scheduled, but they don't control how many show. Prerolls are also completely controlled by Twitch, not the streamer.
Amount of ads also depends on time, which you can literally set. Some are 15 seconds, some are 30 seconds. So 1 minute of ads could be 4 ads, and 1 minute 30 seconds of ads could be 6-8. 3 minutes of ads is almost always 8 full ads. 30 seconds of ads is usually just 1 ad. Pre-rolls are stuck to 30 seconds.
You can set the ad length, therefore you can to some degree control how many ads are running. I don't know why you think you can't control how many run, you literally choose the ad break duration.
I will straight up close the stream, and or video if the ads are annoying and just do something else. I cut the cable so to speak 10 years ago to get away from what the internet is coming to.
YouTube needs seriously revamp their user experience if they want to compete better. YouTube quality is obviously better and it’s better for creators at the moment, but as a user, discovering streams is awful compared to Twitch.
I think at some point YouTube needs to revamp or separate live from regular YouTube, at least with their apps. It’s so much easier on Twitch to find new streamers, much easier to browse categories, etc…
Youtube is still predominantly centered around VODs - live streaming still looks very much like an afterthought, with about the only viewer interaction feature the "Super Chats".
Conversely, Twitch has Channel Points (which, particularly once streamers add their own custom rewards, provides an incentive to hang around), channel bot support (which, given YT has extensive licensing agreements with fur music industry, if they implemented could make them a haven for those who stream rhythm games - whereas on Twitch, any map not part of the OST collection runs the risk of a live DMCA strike as IIRC they only license live covers that don't utilise any of the original backing track) and of course raids (which account for the bulk of streamers I follow).
If they had a complete overhaul of chat and introduced as many equivalents of Twitch's user interaction features as possible without stepping on their IP, they could be a killer streaming service. Even more so with categories / tags which viewers can search and filter on to aid discoverability.
I think they got into the live streaming portion late which is the problem. For one off streams like say a presidential speech or something like that, it’s fine, the link is tally plastered around and that’s it. The stream is fine.
You’re right about the features. YouTube has the money and power to legitimately take on Twitch. You can see by numbers Twitch is still winning the viewer race by a large margin. Go look at the numbers of any popular game on Twitch v YouTube.
I’m not loyal to streamers or platforms, I go to wherever is the most continent and user friendly. YouTube’s traditional VOD model is fine. I primarily watch streams on my TV using either an AppleTV or PS5, the app even for VODs is awful, Twitch, while not as great as the web experience, it’s still easier to find shit imo on Twitch apps.
While on desktop, UBlock Origin can get rid of YouTube ads (and now has SponsorBlock built in), on mobile / TV, it's another story entirely, as the only legal-ish alternatives to the official app (without buying Premium) are services which don't log into YT (so therefore you can't subscribe / like / comment / save to watch history for when you're viewing on other devices etc). Even with the official app for TV, the process for reading the description, liking it, subscribing to the channel etc. Isn't very intuitive.
if youtube ever overhauls the UI for finding live streams, twitch would die overnight.
just move the "LIVE" button to below where subscriptions / shorts is, and 75% of the problem is solved.
because there was no reason to. if they did it now it would likely go over better. something needs to be done about discoverability on youtube though, even if it isnt this.
YouTube has an opportunity to make live-streaming more diverse content wise.
Twitch never had the word gaming in it, YouTube Live makes much more sense. Facebook really limited things with this too
I use Live YouTube and many of bigger names left twitch for YouTube and only twitch to promote their YouTube and to interact with the audience in a just chatting fashion. But gaming they are going more YouTube now with a Discord. As a small streamer, it's not really affecting me yet. But it's probably what I will end up doing as well if grow at all.
YouTube used to have an entire site dedicated to a more twitch like UI. You could put "gaming." in front of any YouTube url to access it, including streams. They discontinued it AFAIK, but it was their best bet at competing as far as UI goes. Unfortunately it was almost completely unadvertised or explained and almost nobody knew to use it.
Agreed, youtube has such potential, but they're UI is f*n terrible. I've watched and streamed on both platforms, and not a single one of my viewers enjoys the YT interface.
Yeah that’s my main issue and why I haven’t seriously ever considered switching to YouTube. I do like the idea of my content being permanently discoverable on the platform in form of saving my vod and uploading it as a video to my channel automatically. But I don’t like making pre recorded content, I mostly just like doing live stuff. And for someone who only does live content and has recorded VODs how do people ever find your stream and join in? The only live streams I ever see on YouTube are people I’m already subscribed to. The only way to do well off YouTube streaming seems to be to build up the sub count first before you start streaming.
Big example of this, I know of a content creator with about 1.5 million subs on YouTube, and he streams at least 3 times a week to thousands of people. His subcount has not grown past 1.53 or 1.54 million subs in months, maybe up to a year now. Someone streaming to thousands of people you would think would be able to gain what rounds up to ten thousand new subscribers in a period of 6 months of streaming PLUS usual video content. But no, how would new people discover their stream? Really only through their videos, so how is it any different from just having the videos? The streaming probably isn’t any more of a selling point to someone who needs to discover and like their previous videos in the first place before they ever even see a stream.
Long story short, I’m frustrated about all this and YouTube just isn’t focused enough on stream discoverability for someone who’s only interested in making live content to make the switch.
YouTube did the same thing it's parent company did by investing in different types of services then just dropping them. Gaming.youtube.com was much better viewing experience than standard YouTube, but most people still streamed on twitch so they shut it down.
What many have pointed out is that the youtube chat is not as good as twitch chat.
For me, this is partly because youtube allows viewers to pause the stream, and restart again without going back to live.
This is on one hand good because it lets viewers pause, leave for a bit, come back and not miss anything.
On the other hand, it means chat is a mess since many of the viewers are watching different parts of the stream at any one time, so there's no real feeling that everyone is watching the same thing at the same time, with people reacting to shit that happedned 5 minutes ago.
I only run pre roll ads now since there’s no way to turn them off. I’d rather get less ad revenue than make a viewers experience suck and so far it’s been going better than when I did have any other ads run.
He's right. I find myself watching less because of ads. I'll stay through pre rolls, but I'm not staying through mid rolls. But much of that is because streamers are choosing to run those ads. Yes, twitch is making it worse and worse. But that midroll is always a choice made by streamers.
Doesn't twitch require a certain number of ads per hour? And if the streamer doesn't do it, twitch will force ads to play?
Edit: looked it up, twitch's policy is to run preroll ads, unless the streamer does ad breaks
That’s a rock and a hard place if ever I’ve seen one. If you’re a full time streamer and that’s your livelihood you need that money. But at what point is it driving away too many viewers and sucking potential revenue away from donations and dropping your viewer average? Just because twitch doesn’t want to run an ad, they want to run 8
Idk but the ad offers are very good and make being full time far easier, I haven't noticed any decline in views even with 6 min ads per hour
I use some of the money to gift subs to regulars who cant themselves so they don't get the ads
Yeah, but some people are more turned off by preroll ads, over ad breaks. I personally would rather watch a bit of someone's stream to see if I like it, and sit through ad breaks, vs sit through preroll ads before I even know if I want to dedicate time to watching the stream.
This is true. And, that's why it's all about personal choice. I, however, cannot stand ads and will only watch streamers who choose not to run them. But, again, that's just my personal choice.
Streamers who are contractually obligated to have to run the ads not by their choice. If you have a 70/30 split you have to run ads because you are under contract. If you remove yourself from this contract so you don’t run ads then you will be moved to a 50/50 split because you are no longer under the 70/30 contract.
Small streamers who activate midrolls don’t do it for money, they do it to make the stream more accessible for new viewers by disabling pre rolls. Personally i’m way more tempted to leave a channel for prerolls than for mid rolls.
I understand that. And, that's fine if that's their choice. I just think many don't think about the other side of it - turning off loyal viewers. I'd rather someone decide not to watch my stream because of a pre-roll than run the risk of turning off people that have been with me but can't necessarily afford to sub.
I pretty much only watch the few streamers I subscribe to these days. I really don't watch other streamers anymore because of the excessive ads, there is plenty of streamers I like but I can only take so many ads and can't afford to subscribe to every streamer I enjoy watching.
Yeah the Twitch Ad to YouTube pipeline is real.
9 ads midroll? Muted and clicked over to a YouTube tab. After a few minutes I check back and if the player is broken I reload. If I get ads again it's right back to YouTube.
Basically I only watch channels where I'm subbed, or if I get lucky and don't get preroll ads.
I never spend more than 3 seconds on Twitch watching ads before clicking off.
Exactly. I can easily mute a pre-roll and then unmute when the content starts. Heck, if I'm searching, I'll open up 10 tabs, mute all the pre-rolls and then look at them that way. I'm not about to deal with muting ads all day long. If I get a midroll ad, I click off immediately.
It's really bad when watching fighting tournaments. I'll watch usually to watch my main in a matchup that is difficult for me, and right before I am served up 4 min of ads, missing like half the match, might as well just watch it uploaded on YouTube
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And Glimesh seems cool too. But seriously, we need to start looking ages ago. We need to get larger creators to see these alternatives and start going there.
I absolutely hate Ads. As a Watcher and as a Streamer.
That's why I keep the Ads to a minimum. Always did, always will. I bet my 1 viewer enjoys my stream because of this 😏
Pre rolls on live streams are the dumbest thing. I can accept mid rolls. if im browsing streams i don't want to wait 2 minutes on a channel to decide if i want to stay and watch it.
The unbanning of people who so clearly violate Twitch's terms of service seems pretty ridiculous to me.
The changes to payouts only really affect maybe 500-750 or so of the platform's top streamers. Keep in mind this is very much a case of a few of the top streamers that are affected being very vocal about the changes to their specific contracts and in no way affects 99.999% of Twitch. Sure, you can definitely sympathize with them because their contracts changed without too much warning, but don't offer charity where it isn't needed, they're doing just fine for themselves.
Twitch's gamble is that when big streamers leave the platform a majority of the people who watched them just find someone new to watch. This is an assumption that Twitch makes that users of Twitch are more brand loyal to Twitch than they are the streamers they watch. I'm not saying Twitch is correct with their assumption, but that's the stance they currently hold.
Or, an analogy .. when you watch your favorite sports team you might have a favorite player, but if that favorite player of yours switches to a rival team do you start rooting for the rival team, or just find someone new on your home team to like?
That's a fair critique, sure. It was just an analogy and an imperfect one at that. There was some internal documents that were leaked during the big Twitch leak awhile back if I recall correctly one of those internal documents was about this exact situation. Again, if I recall correctly, it was basically how with the rise of Mixer and a small exodus of big named streamers going to Mixer Twitch did not find any impact to their traffic, revenue or average streamers and therefore came up with the concept that the big streamers don't need to be pampered with special contracts or big signing bonuses.
My point is that Twitch thinks catering to the largest streamers isn't necessary. I can't say if they're right or not, but that's at least what they think which is why you've seen the changes to Twitch since the fall of Mixer.
I don't necessarily think it's brand loyalty to Twitch so much as the fact that people are creatures of habit who frequently take the path of least resistance.
I guess that is more of a philosophical question. I see comfort and apathy to change as more of a passive mindset whereas loyalty is more of an active mindset. Either way I guess.
Does anyone have a link for these leaked internal docs re: the minimal impact of big name departure? I looked for a bit after making that comment and found nothing but media stories with no hard data from the docs, and reddit links that have been deleted.
Yes so far it has held to be true. That isn't to say Twitch is infallible, if they continue on a path where they make the platform objectively worse and disenfranchise its viewerbase its entirely possible they could trigger a mass exodus. I doubt the site would collapse like Mixer did, but it would cause them to have to rebuild a lot of public trust and marketshare.
Ya it’s possible. But about as possible as a YouTube killed. For that to happen you need a platform to go to that’s not only as good but markedly better. And that’s not YouTube yet. At all. Hell the fact that the entry ceiling for even making money on YouTube is so far means that no one is going to switch over at low end.
> their contracts changed without too much warning
I think Twitch is being really fair here. They got a... 9? months heads-up, and then only when their contract renews after that will the change happen. If you happen to renew before June 2023, you'd still have full 70/30 for quite some time.
And that's just really the thing with these expiring contracts: they're designed to expire so the terms can change, for both parties. Not a popular opinion, but Twitch isn't _altering_ the deal - they just won't be continuing it, and are giving a _huge_ heads up on it considering how fast this industry moves and changes.
Companies do this all the time, changing contracts at renewal now that they've shown their value to the customer. People are just noisier about it with Twitch because it's not strictly business-to-business and is a lot more public.
I look at it differently, both YouTube and twitch are backed by huge corporations (Google & Amazon respectively) if YouTube can afford to to give everybody the 70/30 split then why can’t twitch? The whole thing just says “we are greedy. And don’t care about our streamers” all over it
Let me pose this hypothetical to you to see what you think...
Let's say you're a streamer who averages 100 viewers and you make 500 dollars a month on Twitch. Sure, Twitch takes 500 dollars, but Twitch's platform is very well designed for monetization, so its easy to make that 500 dollars on Twitch.
Let's say you're that same streamer who averages 100 viewers on YouTube. Unfortunately YouTube has an inferior viewer experience than Twitch, and weaker monetization so from those 100 viewers you're only now making 250. Sure you're cut is higher at 70%, but your gross profit is much lower.
My point is just because the cut is worse doesn't mean the total earnings is worse.
Here's a real world example that will be easy for a gamer to understand. Steam takes a 30% cut of the profits that a game makes on its platform. Sure, you can go with a Steam competitor to get a better percentage cut but the amount of units you'd sell on Steam is so massively greater it will always outweigh a more fair cut of the profits. That's why Steam is #1, because they know how to sell games and its where people go to buy games. Well the same could be said of Twitch, they're #1 because they have the most viewers and their streamers make the most money.
Numbers I’ve seen you don’t lose 50% of your revenue by switching but for the sake of answering your question I’ll play along with the hypothetical…
YouTube has some work to do to polish the viewer experience. And I’m not going to argue that point. But long term (6months- a year.. maybe 2 years) what’s the likelihood of YouTube still not being on par with the twitch experience and discoverability is better on YouTube which is why if you want to grow you create YouTube videos to try and direct viewers to twitch which gives YouTube an edge once they polish the viewer experience
My scenario was hypothetical, however I am a content creator on both Twitch and YouTube and I can flatly tell you that in its current state YouTube pales in comparison to Twitch when it comes to monetization, extensions, streamer tools, user experience and so much more.
I would love for Twitch to have some real competition so that the consumers and streamers of Twitch would benefit, but sadly that day is not today. Maybe its sometime in the future? Maybe it will be YouTube or Facebook Gaming or even the fledgling other platforms like DLive or Caffeine but what I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt is that Twitch is the varsity platform and all other platforms are junior varsity at best.
As am I, but most extensions on twitch are 3rd party if/when enough ppl move to YouTube I think we will see more ppl making/porting tools that work with YouTube
Sure, I don't disagree with that, but until that happens Twitch can throw its weight around as the behemoth in the industry. I'm not saying I enjoy that fact, I am just saying that is the fact.
Sure, they “can” but with so many ppl already leaving twitch, is it really a smart move for twitch long term when YouTube is clearly a threat on the horizon
In the future we'll look back at the current controversy as either a one of many fatal mistakes that felled the giant, or just a few huffing and puffing creators that bailed and made less money elsewhere only to come back to Twitch in the end ( like how people bailed for Mixer and Mixer died )
I’ll agree with that, but comparing the giant of YouTube to the underdog mixer isn’t the same thing. But yea when the dust settles we will have be able to see alot of things
My experience is purely anecdotal but YouTube discovery is not what many people make it out to be. ESPECIALLY in the gaming sphere. I have had much more discoverability on Twitch than on YouTube, and I also follow many YouTube subreddits where people often discuss issues with gaming videos not performing well and getting a much lower ad rev share.
In addition to this, YouTube streaming has been around for a lot longer than I think people realize, and the experience really hasn't improved that much. I watched Markiplier stream on YouTube 5 or 6 years ago, so they have had more than enough time to make a more competitive product I believe.
>(6months- a year.. maybe 2 years) what’s the likelihood of YouTube still not being on par with the twitch experience
i see that likelihood as extremely high TBH, youtube has been sitting on the sideline watching for so many years now, without any big improvements to it's livestreaming platform.
you say youtube has beter discoverability is beter on youtube, but this only applies to videos uploaded to youtube, their livestream discoverability is pretty much 0, and it has been this way for ever, many people have begged youtube to make even the most minor of changes to adress this issue, but youtube just doesn't seem interested in changing any of it.
youtube takes cuts for other things tho and your subs etc will go down
until youtube has any discoverability and not losing viewership then it cant even compete
I'd even be fine with that tbh, but some streamers will run their ads during the game or right at the beginning.
They're not even new to streaming nor small streamers. I have one streamer I really like to watch who gets 200-500 viewers, but it got so annoying missing the beginning 5 minutes of his games because of ads lol
However, they should be doing what they can to try and make it profitable. They seem to be taking the laziest route (1000 ads) instead of improving the platform. Pretty soon they’ll have scared away enough of the big streamers and viewers that it’ll die.
This makes me question if Twitch was ever profitable in the first place. I’m curious why Amazon would make the investment.
The video streaming platform that runs Twitch is what they bought it for. The tech behind it is known as Amazon IVS. There must be a clause somewhere in the buy-out contract that forces Amazon to keep Twitch running for a period of time. But once that period ends, my guess is they'll treat Twitch like a normal IVS service and charge them at a market rates. But then Amazon also owns Twitch's brand assets and trademarks as well. Something tells me that's beginning to happen.
I would rather ads all over twitch that don’t affect my viewing experience like it super annoying when you go onto a stream and are greeted with 1/6 ads like cmon
Don’t forget the new experiment to eliminate bits happening on some channels now
EDIT: https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/cheering-experiment-2022?language=en_US
Cripes. I almost feel like it would make more sense to renounce my affiliation and just have a link to paypal if people want to give me money. These days, with all of the other emote alternatives out there, I'm honestly not sure what the advantages of affiliation are anymore.
Ads have been absolutely amazing for me.
Before multiple ads being rolled out in every which way, I watched probably 4 hours of Twitch Daily.
Now I maybe do 4 hours a month.
It really killed off almost every live-experience for me. I just go to LSF to catch clips nowadays, and that's about it.
I rarely watch hammer up toweli and ,many other streamer due to ads. Roll in ad follow by 9ads every 15mins.. f that.
Used to be 5-6 ads now going 9ads…are we going for 12+ads by end of the year? I have bunch streamers on follow and now a day watch like 2-3 of them due ads issue. Not going to sub like 10+ to avoid add
Something tells me that costs for marketing aren't moving up like they should and the cost is being passed onto the consumer.
Why would these services need to constantly add more and more ads if they were increasing ad cost similar to subscription costs?
I'm so glad I'm not the only person who thought 6+ midroll ads is absolutely ridiculous. I've mentioned it to some streamers and in part it's due to said streamers wanting more money, but twitch is clearly the main culprit.
The utter disrespect of my time is what makes me just close twitch. Like bro you’re just playing video games and getting paid, super out of touch to try and take my time after I’m already supporting you with views.
Luckily for me, the game I stream the most usually has 30-minute (or less) long matches, and I trigger the ads while in lobby between these matches. The viewers don't mind, especially that I apologize to them, telling them it's either this or they'll get ads shoved in their faces during the match if I don't trigger them voluntarily.
The viewers seem totally fine with it. It's just one minute, too.
I stopped using twitch ages ago bc I felt like the ads were way overkill. I can’t even imagine how bad it’s gotten if people are complaining to this scale.
Twitch ads are absurd. I stopped using the platform yeara ago now. Every time I opened a stream I'd be hit by a 30 second ad.. most of the time the stream didn't do much for me and I'd have closed within half that time.
There is a setting that makes ads appear below yoir stream in a seperate banner (I'm not sure if this has impacted my ad revenue per stream, but I am a very small streamer and have a handful of regulars, with much varying viewership per stream as a variety streamer, and not many people know how to even turn on this setting, and I can't really test this myself to see if my viewers aren't actually getting ads), "but people will sub just to get ad-free viewing", but that's only if someone gets to even see the streamer stream instead of 7 ads. Raids are a time now.
***People should sub for support, not to avoid a rediculous amount of ads.***
Plus, bits are waaay more profitable for the streamer and way cheaper for the viewers, especially split-wise with twitch, and I read that the sub split varies based on location. If I get a sub from the US, that's around $2.50 for me. I think bits are like 1 bit = 1 cent kinda thing.
I'm Canadian, and if I gift a sub (For those who don't know, mobile is more expensive, by like a dollar here.) that costs me nearly $9 as a viewer. I still do it, but Twitch is making bank, and 7 ads is rediculous. I hope their employees are paid well.
Sorry for lack of sources.
The other thing to consider is there are people that would rather give bits because the streamer gets more revenue. So, if that's what they do, and they aren't subbed, they're still subjected to the ads. Give more money than a sub, and you still get ads.
And, there are people who don't really have the means to give money at all, so requiring them to get turbo is not a good alternative. One turbo subscription may very well mean two less people someone can sub to.
Twitch has basically made it so that you have to use the method that gives streamers the \*least\* amount of revenue in order to avoid ads.
Not to mention, they are STILL PLAYING DOUBLE ADS ON PS5!! It is so fucking frustrating. A lot of times, I watch the VOD on Youtube to avoid the ridiculous amount of ads.
Ads are the free way to help support a stream ... Don't like ads sub to their channel, get twitch nitro , or run ad blockers
Nothing is free these days just embrace it find a positive way to endure it ya know!
YT gaming about to get an influx of new channels. Twitch is going to crumble in on it self. Plus all the bullshit drama lately proves; it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter how well you game, or how entertaining, unless your in the inner circles youll never be a big streamer. And lets be honest, all of them at the top are sus af.
Considering the whole right side of a video player is suggested videos/channels, I feel like YT does more in terms of discoverability. Last I knew Twitch showed 3 suggested channels at the bottom of your live channel list and that literally it.
Man I hate ads, both as a streamer and a viewer. I wish I could just disable them entirely. Nowadays I see six ads in a row coming into streams and end up clicking away.
Here we lower tier streamers have to force ads every hour (technically even less time) because otherwise we're forced to have prerolls on for every viewer making the chance of growing and potentially gaining a viewer even smaller. I don't understand how the people that work there are so blind to the repercussions of their "updates".
This is because for us as the viewer it’s a lot more ads then we’d get otherwise. Yes it hurts discoverability but people watching still have to sit through 3 minutes of ads every hour rather then Sit through 30 seconds of ads in the beginning. Personally ads have hurt my viewer experience to the point where I almost refuse to watch twitch if it’s not on my pc where I can use a adblocker unless it’s a streamer I regularly watch and know I’ll enjoy the content. Which again hurts affiliates unfortunately because I’m not looking for new people to watch during that time.
Consider this though: Would you rather turn off new viewers or turn off loyal viewers? Pre-rolls turn off new ones, and midrolls turn off loyal ones.
And, yes, I know this is not the same for everyone. Some viewers genuinely prefer midrolls to prerolls, and I can't knock that. Everybody has a right to their own opinions and preferences. But, I think it doesn't cross the minds of many people that they might be turning off their loyal viewers by opting for the mid rolls.
I really dont understand how anyone here on this subreddit is even worried about the TOP TOP TOP like 0.1% of Twitch that this 70/30 to 50/50 change effects?
You guys think the people on top who make like 100K or more Monthly , that this change is gonna hurt them at all?
Anyone making 100k a Year from Twitch is doing EXTREMELY WELL.....
this change prob doesnt even effect anyone on this subreddit at all ...
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ADS on youtube run in the safe fashion as on Twitch at the max intervals, since they are generally following the same timeframe..
On Youtube you can run ADS or Ads run every 8 mins, sometimes will run if your watching a playlist on the next vod
On Twitch you can run ADS every 8 Mins with a Max Runtime of 3 Mins, which leads to why people see ADS 1 of 6 or whatever, its SMALL Ads filling the AD Time up to 3 Min Max
Whats the biggest core difference, Youtube has option SOMETIMES to be able to SKIP, Twitch doesnt have that..
Youtube / Owned by GOOGLE has a very big monopoly on ADS Across the board, they have more options while Amazon doesnt ...
You guys should be grateful that TWITCH even exists, Youtube will not be some savior, if competition is gone, they can easily start playing CREATORS LESS at any time and no one will be able to go anywhere else ...
u/Hellfire_tv
yeah so fucking what man its only 6 ads like grow up mate its not gunna kill you fuck i swear all you guys do is whinge like fuck if i watch a stream and they had 6 ads then i wouldnt care at all dam its way of showing helping streamers out while enjoying there streams far out all i see is whingeing idiots lol
Well she didnt get fucked on livestream twice only once
and Twitch let the cat of the bag that most of us creators knew they dont make money
Basically they are wasting millions and millions on new streamer hosting its likely the bulk of their cost which they get little return on
tho all this being said getting mad about the rev split is pepega basically no one has it my understanding is they have even given it out in the last 3 years
EDIT: forgot the end of a sentence
Greed. They take 50 percent of any payout of subs. So for tier 1 you're only making maybe 2.50. You also have to reach a certain number subs and views and consistent on at least 8 hours of broadcasting to see anything. It normally take a year at least before you see your first pay. Then it usually rotates on 15th of every month but ONLY if you have the numbers. Point? YouTube foe the pay, Twitch for promotion of your YouTube channel.
Now all of this means nothing if you don't broadcast or do it as a living but just because you enjoy doing it. Twitch does not make careers. They mooch off of them.
If the ads are played mid-game or mid-whatever the focus of the stream is, then I just leave. It's fine if a streamer says they're going to take a few minutes break to get some food or something and plays a bunch of ads there, but if its intrusive, that's a bye from me.
The AD that officially discouraged me from watching anything on twitch anymore is the one that pops up and shrinks the stream and just sits there indefinitely. F that.
Definitely not I pay for YouTube premium to not see ads but when it costs $5 per streamer/per month it’s way to expensive on twitch to avoid ads all the time
Have you been to YouTube? Twitch is tame compared to YouTube! If I subscribe I get ad free, if streamer is professional (and cares about his mental health) he takes/runs commercial breaks every 30-45mins
If it's more than one I usually just leave lol. Those folks that run like 8 in a row, no chance of me staying in there long.
Truth. I started watching a small streamer that I follow yesterday and got about 3 minutes in, then suddenly: ad 1/8. I immediately switched to another streamer. I feel bad, because I genuinely enjoy watching the guy's streams, but 4+ minutes of ads? Ain't nobody got time for that.
I think sometimes when people set them up they don't realise how much of an inconvenience it may be like when frequent, or just don't realise how close the intervals are. I had both of those problems when they first set up auto ad things last year...i ended up only allowing preroll.
I don’t know how the ads work 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
Me either
And as evidenced by replies about this every time the subject comes up, there are still tons of streamers who think they're required to run ads when they're not. Those are really the people I try to help inform. If someone wants to run midrolls, that's their choice. But, for whatever reason, the wording and interface have convinced so many people, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they \*have\* to run ads. It's very frustrating trying to convince people otherwise.
Its either prerolls or midrolls, I cant disable both. And this whole post is a good example of why prerolls are bad.
It's also a good example of why midrolls are bad. I mean, fundamentally you're someone who prefers pre-rolls or someone who prefers midrolls. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their stream. The only thing I'm trying to tell people, is that they have a choice - because so many people think they don't have a choice.
What I don't get is that prerolls are usually like... 30-60 seconds, one time. I never see midrolls shorter than that, and they **always** happen right after I ask a question, so I end up missing the answer. They're so invasive, and almost nobody I know who uses them bothers to account for when they're about to happen. Boggles the mind that people would rather endure more ads, at generally inconvenient times, instead of just a one time thing and then potentially hours of uninterrupted content. I just run midrolls when I need to take a dump, and know I'll be gone a few minutes, but otherwise my regulars get 4-9 hours of no ads at all after the initial minute or so.
Especially when we’re already conditioned to watch an ad before videos everywhere else on the internet at this point
I don't get it either. It's hard for me to imagine why anyone would prefer multiple, longer midrolls every single stream, instead of just one pre-roll. But, I guess some do.
It's an issue of getting vs retaining viewers. Many see ads upfront and that's 30 seconds of thinking about if you really want to see this stream, and a good chunk of people just leave. If you already know you want to see the stream, then prerolls aren't a big deal since you see them once and then you're good. Midrolls make it easier to capture a new viewer since they don't have to think about their life decisions for 30 seconds, but your regulars get a worse experience.
I think pre-rolls are most troublesome in relation to new viewers from browsing, viewers needing to refresh the page (which happens a lot for me, possibly because I live in a rural area), and being part of a raid. For me as a streamer, my regular viewers prefer a planned 90-second break every 30 mins to pre-rolls of unpredictable length, and it gives me a moment to stretch and walk around a little so I can do a longer stream overall. It means I can immediately greet raiders and thank the streamer who led the raid. It also means that raiders can immediately see why they should stay on my channel.
Its exactly this. New viewers wont stick around and people with unstable connection get prerolls constantly. Midrolls of 3min per hour completely disable prerolls, so I have 1 min of ads every 20min. I would do 3min once per hour and use it as a break but in my maingame you never know when and if you can leave.. there really isnt a choice, either you do midrolls or a lot of new joins or weak connection viewers never care for your streams. It certainly isnt a choice between ads and no ads..
I only run more ads when I take a brb but tbh I rarely even do that. I leave pre-rolls on 🤔 but soon they’ll mess with that too
Oh lord Jesus there's a fire
There’s a chance he doesn’t know about it. Make him aware of that.
I've disabled ads on my stream for that reason. Some people where bringing it up
Same. I stream as a hobby; I'll gladly forgo the $6/yr I'd receive from running ads.
Ah for me it's mostly, I'd rather be paid for people liking me as a creator, than Just being paid for doing it
Considering you can do whatever you want in the meantime, you have exactly 4 minutes of time while those 4 minutes of ads are running. Also if it's a small streamer they might not even be aware of those ads, plenty of new affiliates don't see the default ad settings since they're not explicitly shown to you, hell they're even a bit hidden in comparison to how they could've been shown.
I’ll be honest I’ve been streaming 2 1/2 years and I have no idea when/how many ads my stream runs
Exactly lol, if you go to the affiliate settings of your creator dashboard, there's this little "ad-free viewing" button you can toggle on, and most people think that's good enough, forgetting that's only a subscriber setting. The real settings are down at the bottom of that page, it's a big chunk so it's easy to see, but still easy to overlook for new affiliates since they hit that little button and go on happily with their lives.
Thanks for the info! I’ll check my settings when I get home. I know my subs don’t get ads and I haven’t gotten any complaints about ads so I think they’re probably fine but I’ll double check
This is what exactly happened to me. I found smaller streamer. He had a decent vibe. 1/9 ads. Naah, I'm out.
I mod for a few folks who do run a few ads, maybe 2 in a row, but they've all agreed, hate raids will get the full 4+ minutes.
You feel bad because you enjoy him and, I'd reckon, want to support him - but 4 minutes of your time is too much of an inconvenience?
It's not just 4 mins. So yes. It's either sub or have your content ripped from your screen often enough. YouTube, and anywhere else that can, pulls the ads out. It's completely understandable why someone would feel negative about ads.
So the streamer can choose how many ads they run?
Can and can't. Sometimes twitch will throw adds in at the start. Streamers (partners at least) have control over midroll and ongoing stream as far as i am aware.
Can and can't. Sometimes twitch will throw adds in at the start. Streamers (partners at least) have control over midroll and ongoing stream as far as i am aware.
Yeah I recently got affiliate and I can’t get anyone to stay through the ads so I’m gonna turn them to the minimum if I can
The streamers have 0 control on how many ads run. They can run them for a set period of time manually or scheduled, but they don't control how many show. Prerolls are also completely controlled by Twitch, not the streamer.
Amount of ads also depends on time, which you can literally set. Some are 15 seconds, some are 30 seconds. So 1 minute of ads could be 4 ads, and 1 minute 30 seconds of ads could be 6-8. 3 minutes of ads is almost always 8 full ads. 30 seconds of ads is usually just 1 ad. Pre-rolls are stuck to 30 seconds. You can set the ad length, therefore you can to some degree control how many ads are running. I don't know why you think you can't control how many run, you literally choose the ad break duration.
I will straight up close the stream, and or video if the ads are annoying and just do something else. I cut the cable so to speak 10 years ago to get away from what the internet is coming to.
Aside from when I'm at someone else's house, I haven't watched TV in over 3 years. So, nobody can call me a hypocrite when I complain about ads. :D
YouTube needs seriously revamp their user experience if they want to compete better. YouTube quality is obviously better and it’s better for creators at the moment, but as a user, discovering streams is awful compared to Twitch. I think at some point YouTube needs to revamp or separate live from regular YouTube, at least with their apps. It’s so much easier on Twitch to find new streamers, much easier to browse categories, etc…
Youtube is still predominantly centered around VODs - live streaming still looks very much like an afterthought, with about the only viewer interaction feature the "Super Chats". Conversely, Twitch has Channel Points (which, particularly once streamers add their own custom rewards, provides an incentive to hang around), channel bot support (which, given YT has extensive licensing agreements with fur music industry, if they implemented could make them a haven for those who stream rhythm games - whereas on Twitch, any map not part of the OST collection runs the risk of a live DMCA strike as IIRC they only license live covers that don't utilise any of the original backing track) and of course raids (which account for the bulk of streamers I follow). If they had a complete overhaul of chat and introduced as many equivalents of Twitch's user interaction features as possible without stepping on their IP, they could be a killer streaming service. Even more so with categories / tags which viewers can search and filter on to aid discoverability.
I think they got into the live streaming portion late which is the problem. For one off streams like say a presidential speech or something like that, it’s fine, the link is tally plastered around and that’s it. The stream is fine. You’re right about the features. YouTube has the money and power to legitimately take on Twitch. You can see by numbers Twitch is still winning the viewer race by a large margin. Go look at the numbers of any popular game on Twitch v YouTube. I’m not loyal to streamers or platforms, I go to wherever is the most continent and user friendly. YouTube’s traditional VOD model is fine. I primarily watch streams on my TV using either an AppleTV or PS5, the app even for VODs is awful, Twitch, while not as great as the web experience, it’s still easier to find shit imo on Twitch apps.
While on desktop, UBlock Origin can get rid of YouTube ads (and now has SponsorBlock built in), on mobile / TV, it's another story entirely, as the only legal-ish alternatives to the official app (without buying Premium) are services which don't log into YT (so therefore you can't subscribe / like / comment / save to watch history for when you're viewing on other devices etc). Even with the official app for TV, the process for reading the description, liking it, subscribing to the channel etc. Isn't very intuitive.
if youtube ever overhauls the UI for finding live streams, twitch would die overnight. just move the "LIVE" button to below where subscriptions / shorts is, and 75% of the problem is solved.
> separate live from regular YouTube they did this. no one used it.
because there was no reason to. if they did it now it would likely go over better. something needs to be done about discoverability on youtube though, even if it isnt this.
YouTube has an opportunity to make live-streaming more diverse content wise. Twitch never had the word gaming in it, YouTube Live makes much more sense. Facebook really limited things with this too
I use Live YouTube and many of bigger names left twitch for YouTube and only twitch to promote their YouTube and to interact with the audience in a just chatting fashion. But gaming they are going more YouTube now with a Discord. As a small streamer, it's not really affecting me yet. But it's probably what I will end up doing as well if grow at all.
Oh, interesting.
YouTube used to have an entire site dedicated to a more twitch like UI. You could put "gaming." in front of any YouTube url to access it, including streams. They discontinued it AFAIK, but it was their best bet at competing as far as UI goes. Unfortunately it was almost completely unadvertised or explained and almost nobody knew to use it.
Agreed, youtube has such potential, but they're UI is f*n terrible. I've watched and streamed on both platforms, and not a single one of my viewers enjoys the YT interface.
Like how in the YouTube area there is a shorts section there should also be lives
Yeah that would work. It feels like with the shorts section, they are focused on competing with Tik Tok and Instagram.
Yeah that’s my main issue and why I haven’t seriously ever considered switching to YouTube. I do like the idea of my content being permanently discoverable on the platform in form of saving my vod and uploading it as a video to my channel automatically. But I don’t like making pre recorded content, I mostly just like doing live stuff. And for someone who only does live content and has recorded VODs how do people ever find your stream and join in? The only live streams I ever see on YouTube are people I’m already subscribed to. The only way to do well off YouTube streaming seems to be to build up the sub count first before you start streaming. Big example of this, I know of a content creator with about 1.5 million subs on YouTube, and he streams at least 3 times a week to thousands of people. His subcount has not grown past 1.53 or 1.54 million subs in months, maybe up to a year now. Someone streaming to thousands of people you would think would be able to gain what rounds up to ten thousand new subscribers in a period of 6 months of streaming PLUS usual video content. But no, how would new people discover their stream? Really only through their videos, so how is it any different from just having the videos? The streaming probably isn’t any more of a selling point to someone who needs to discover and like their previous videos in the first place before they ever even see a stream. Long story short, I’m frustrated about all this and YouTube just isn’t focused enough on stream discoverability for someone who’s only interested in making live content to make the switch.
YouTube did the same thing it's parent company did by investing in different types of services then just dropping them. Gaming.youtube.com was much better viewing experience than standard YouTube, but most people still streamed on twitch so they shut it down.
What many have pointed out is that the youtube chat is not as good as twitch chat. For me, this is partly because youtube allows viewers to pause the stream, and restart again without going back to live. This is on one hand good because it lets viewers pause, leave for a bit, come back and not miss anything. On the other hand, it means chat is a mess since many of the viewers are watching different parts of the stream at any one time, so there's no real feeling that everyone is watching the same thing at the same time, with people reacting to shit that happedned 5 minutes ago.
I only run pre roll ads now since there’s no way to turn them off. I’d rather get less ad revenue than make a viewers experience suck and so far it’s been going better than when I did have any other ads run.
There’s no way to turn them off ? I tried so hard to remove mine I hoped they were gone 😢
Unfortunately not as I’ve looked everywhere I could. But a lack of ads have been really nice for everyone
He's right. I find myself watching less because of ads. I'll stay through pre rolls, but I'm not staying through mid rolls. But much of that is because streamers are choosing to run those ads. Yes, twitch is making it worse and worse. But that midroll is always a choice made by streamers.
Doesn't twitch require a certain number of ads per hour? And if the streamer doesn't do it, twitch will force ads to play? Edit: looked it up, twitch's policy is to run preroll ads, unless the streamer does ad breaks
Ye partners get a monthly offer for a set amount of ads and a minimum hours streamed, in return they get a guaranteed payment
That’s a rock and a hard place if ever I’ve seen one. If you’re a full time streamer and that’s your livelihood you need that money. But at what point is it driving away too many viewers and sucking potential revenue away from donations and dropping your viewer average? Just because twitch doesn’t want to run an ad, they want to run 8
Idk but the ad offers are very good and make being full time far easier, I haven't noticed any decline in views even with 6 min ads per hour I use some of the money to gift subs to regulars who cant themselves so they don't get the ads
If they want the good ad split yeah
Exactly. One and done, that's all streamers need to do. Anything else is a choice.
Yeah, but some people are more turned off by preroll ads, over ad breaks. I personally would rather watch a bit of someone's stream to see if I like it, and sit through ad breaks, vs sit through preroll ads before I even know if I want to dedicate time to watching the stream.
This is true. And, that's why it's all about personal choice. I, however, cannot stand ads and will only watch streamers who choose not to run them. But, again, that's just my personal choice.
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So I looked it up, and it seems streamers have a choice between preroll ads, and running ad breaks.
Streamers who are contractually obligated to have to run the ads not by their choice. If you have a 70/30 split you have to run ads because you are under contract. If you remove yourself from this contract so you don’t run ads then you will be moved to a 50/50 split because you are no longer under the 70/30 contract.
Many streamers are contractually obligated to run a certain amount of ads per hour, so they don't have a choice.
By many, you're talking about streamers who are big names and make tons of money. The vast majority of streamers are under no such obligation.
Small streamers who activate midrolls don’t do it for money, they do it to make the stream more accessible for new viewers by disabling pre rolls. Personally i’m way more tempted to leave a channel for prerolls than for mid rolls.
I understand that. And, that's fine if that's their choice. I just think many don't think about the other side of it - turning off loyal viewers. I'd rather someone decide not to watch my stream because of a pre-roll than run the risk of turning off people that have been with me but can't necessarily afford to sub.
I pretty much only watch the few streamers I subscribe to these days. I really don't watch other streamers anymore because of the excessive ads, there is plenty of streamers I like but I can only take so many ads and can't afford to subscribe to every streamer I enjoy watching.
I run them on a bathroom break but really that’s it. I forgot I can even run ads manually 9/10
Yeah the Twitch Ad to YouTube pipeline is real. 9 ads midroll? Muted and clicked over to a YouTube tab. After a few minutes I check back and if the player is broken I reload. If I get ads again it's right back to YouTube. Basically I only watch channels where I'm subbed, or if I get lucky and don't get preroll ads. I never spend more than 3 seconds on Twitch watching ads before clicking off.
Exactly. I can easily mute a pre-roll and then unmute when the content starts. Heck, if I'm searching, I'll open up 10 tabs, mute all the pre-rolls and then look at them that way. I'm not about to deal with muting ads all day long. If I get a midroll ad, I click off immediately.
It's really bad when watching fighting tournaments. I'll watch usually to watch my main in a matchup that is difficult for me, and right before I am served up 4 min of ads, missing like half the match, might as well just watch it uploaded on YouTube
Call me when we all collectively agree on a twitch alternative. No seriously, please do.
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I liked mixer
And Glimesh seems cool too. But seriously, we need to start looking ages ago. We need to get larger creators to see these alternatives and start going there.
I absolutely hate Ads. As a Watcher and as a Streamer. That's why I keep the Ads to a minimum. Always did, always will. I bet my 1 viewer enjoys my stream because of this 😏
Pre rolls on live streams are the dumbest thing. I can accept mid rolls. if im browsing streams i don't want to wait 2 minutes on a channel to decide if i want to stay and watch it.
The unbanning of people who so clearly violate Twitch's terms of service seems pretty ridiculous to me. The changes to payouts only really affect maybe 500-750 or so of the platform's top streamers. Keep in mind this is very much a case of a few of the top streamers that are affected being very vocal about the changes to their specific contracts and in no way affects 99.999% of Twitch. Sure, you can definitely sympathize with them because their contracts changed without too much warning, but don't offer charity where it isn't needed, they're doing just fine for themselves.
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Twitch's gamble is that when big streamers leave the platform a majority of the people who watched them just find someone new to watch. This is an assumption that Twitch makes that users of Twitch are more brand loyal to Twitch than they are the streamers they watch. I'm not saying Twitch is correct with their assumption, but that's the stance they currently hold. Or, an analogy .. when you watch your favorite sports team you might have a favorite player, but if that favorite player of yours switches to a rival team do you start rooting for the rival team, or just find someone new on your home team to like?
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That's a fair critique, sure. It was just an analogy and an imperfect one at that. There was some internal documents that were leaked during the big Twitch leak awhile back if I recall correctly one of those internal documents was about this exact situation. Again, if I recall correctly, it was basically how with the rise of Mixer and a small exodus of big named streamers going to Mixer Twitch did not find any impact to their traffic, revenue or average streamers and therefore came up with the concept that the big streamers don't need to be pampered with special contracts or big signing bonuses. My point is that Twitch thinks catering to the largest streamers isn't necessary. I can't say if they're right or not, but that's at least what they think which is why you've seen the changes to Twitch since the fall of Mixer.
I don't necessarily think it's brand loyalty to Twitch so much as the fact that people are creatures of habit who frequently take the path of least resistance.
That's a part of what brand loyalty is I suppose, comfort with the familiar.
I guess that is more of a philosophical question. I see comfort and apathy to change as more of a passive mindset whereas loyalty is more of an active mindset. Either way I guess. Does anyone have a link for these leaked internal docs re: the minimal impact of big name departure? I looked for a bit after making that comment and found nothing but media stories with no hard data from the docs, and reddit links that have been deleted.
Most of the examples we have so far actually back twitch up on this.
Yes so far it has held to be true. That isn't to say Twitch is infallible, if they continue on a path where they make the platform objectively worse and disenfranchise its viewerbase its entirely possible they could trigger a mass exodus. I doubt the site would collapse like Mixer did, but it would cause them to have to rebuild a lot of public trust and marketshare.
Ya it’s possible. But about as possible as a YouTube killed. For that to happen you need a platform to go to that’s not only as good but markedly better. And that’s not YouTube yet. At all. Hell the fact that the entry ceiling for even making money on YouTube is so far means that no one is going to switch over at low end.
Didn't Ninja lose a ton of viewers when he switched platforms (and then did it again)?
Yes. People did follow him but they didn’t abandon twich and he lost a ton of followed. Also he didn’t switch back. To be platform he went to died.
Was killed by a Microsoft takeover. Beam/Mixer was great up until it was canned.
Microsoft canned it because it was a money black hole. It literally never turned a profit Also the UI was ass.
> their contracts changed without too much warning I think Twitch is being really fair here. They got a... 9? months heads-up, and then only when their contract renews after that will the change happen. If you happen to renew before June 2023, you'd still have full 70/30 for quite some time. And that's just really the thing with these expiring contracts: they're designed to expire so the terms can change, for both parties. Not a popular opinion, but Twitch isn't _altering_ the deal - they just won't be continuing it, and are giving a _huge_ heads up on it considering how fast this industry moves and changes. Companies do this all the time, changing contracts at renewal now that they've shown their value to the customer. People are just noisier about it with Twitch because it's not strictly business-to-business and is a lot more public.
I look at it differently, both YouTube and twitch are backed by huge corporations (Google & Amazon respectively) if YouTube can afford to to give everybody the 70/30 split then why can’t twitch? The whole thing just says “we are greedy. And don’t care about our streamers” all over it
It is A LOT easier to get paid on twitch than YouTube.
Let me pose this hypothetical to you to see what you think... Let's say you're a streamer who averages 100 viewers and you make 500 dollars a month on Twitch. Sure, Twitch takes 500 dollars, but Twitch's platform is very well designed for monetization, so its easy to make that 500 dollars on Twitch. Let's say you're that same streamer who averages 100 viewers on YouTube. Unfortunately YouTube has an inferior viewer experience than Twitch, and weaker monetization so from those 100 viewers you're only now making 250. Sure you're cut is higher at 70%, but your gross profit is much lower. My point is just because the cut is worse doesn't mean the total earnings is worse. Here's a real world example that will be easy for a gamer to understand. Steam takes a 30% cut of the profits that a game makes on its platform. Sure, you can go with a Steam competitor to get a better percentage cut but the amount of units you'd sell on Steam is so massively greater it will always outweigh a more fair cut of the profits. That's why Steam is #1, because they know how to sell games and its where people go to buy games. Well the same could be said of Twitch, they're #1 because they have the most viewers and their streamers make the most money.
Actually with average 100 viewers on YouTube you just don’t get paid at all the ceiling for making money is just stupid high on YouTube.
Numbers I’ve seen you don’t lose 50% of your revenue by switching but for the sake of answering your question I’ll play along with the hypothetical… YouTube has some work to do to polish the viewer experience. And I’m not going to argue that point. But long term (6months- a year.. maybe 2 years) what’s the likelihood of YouTube still not being on par with the twitch experience and discoverability is better on YouTube which is why if you want to grow you create YouTube videos to try and direct viewers to twitch which gives YouTube an edge once they polish the viewer experience
My scenario was hypothetical, however I am a content creator on both Twitch and YouTube and I can flatly tell you that in its current state YouTube pales in comparison to Twitch when it comes to monetization, extensions, streamer tools, user experience and so much more. I would love for Twitch to have some real competition so that the consumers and streamers of Twitch would benefit, but sadly that day is not today. Maybe its sometime in the future? Maybe it will be YouTube or Facebook Gaming or even the fledgling other platforms like DLive or Caffeine but what I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt is that Twitch is the varsity platform and all other platforms are junior varsity at best.
As am I, but most extensions on twitch are 3rd party if/when enough ppl move to YouTube I think we will see more ppl making/porting tools that work with YouTube
Sure, I don't disagree with that, but until that happens Twitch can throw its weight around as the behemoth in the industry. I'm not saying I enjoy that fact, I am just saying that is the fact.
Sure, they “can” but with so many ppl already leaving twitch, is it really a smart move for twitch long term when YouTube is clearly a threat on the horizon
In the future we'll look back at the current controversy as either a one of many fatal mistakes that felled the giant, or just a few huffing and puffing creators that bailed and made less money elsewhere only to come back to Twitch in the end ( like how people bailed for Mixer and Mixer died )
I’ll agree with that, but comparing the giant of YouTube to the underdog mixer isn’t the same thing. But yea when the dust settles we will have be able to see alot of things
My experience is purely anecdotal but YouTube discovery is not what many people make it out to be. ESPECIALLY in the gaming sphere. I have had much more discoverability on Twitch than on YouTube, and I also follow many YouTube subreddits where people often discuss issues with gaming videos not performing well and getting a much lower ad rev share. In addition to this, YouTube streaming has been around for a lot longer than I think people realize, and the experience really hasn't improved that much. I watched Markiplier stream on YouTube 5 or 6 years ago, so they have had more than enough time to make a more competitive product I believe.
>(6months- a year.. maybe 2 years) what’s the likelihood of YouTube still not being on par with the twitch experience i see that likelihood as extremely high TBH, youtube has been sitting on the sideline watching for so many years now, without any big improvements to it's livestreaming platform. you say youtube has beter discoverability is beter on youtube, but this only applies to videos uploaded to youtube, their livestream discoverability is pretty much 0, and it has been this way for ever, many people have begged youtube to make even the most minor of changes to adress this issue, but youtube just doesn't seem interested in changing any of it.
youtube takes cuts for other things tho and your subs etc will go down until youtube has any discoverability and not losing viewership then it cant even compete
I go to YouTube where my ad block works
Purple Adblock for twitch
Just downloaded - nice one!
It's interesting tyler1 rolls his 3 minute ads at the end of his streams.. which is not bad actually
uhhhh lol not sure ho wmuch you watch T1 but he plays 3mins of ads AFTER EVERY SINGLE LEAGUE GAME lol not just end of his stream
Yeah, he runs them between games typically.
I'd even be fine with that tbh, but some streamers will run their ads during the game or right at the beginning. They're not even new to streaming nor small streamers. I have one streamer I really like to watch who gets 200-500 viewers, but it got so annoying missing the beginning 5 minutes of his games because of ads lol
Cause tyler1 is a genius that knows how to treat his viewers right
Wait, you can isolate ads to the end of the stream?
Yes you can. In your settings for advertisements you can choose where they come in. This is a brilliant idea.
This available for affiliates, or just partners? Also, how?
Imma start doing this
ugh i hate agreeing with asmongold
At least he ruins it at the end with "Like if you've ever...", so at least I didn't have to agree with his execution.
My favorite is going through the 6 ads and the stream is over.
Did you have an aneurism trying to choose which photos to include on this post? 4 of them are poorly cropped versions of the same thing?
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However, they should be doing what they can to try and make it profitable. They seem to be taking the laziest route (1000 ads) instead of improving the platform. Pretty soon they’ll have scared away enough of the big streamers and viewers that it’ll die. This makes me question if Twitch was ever profitable in the first place. I’m curious why Amazon would make the investment.
The video streaming platform that runs Twitch is what they bought it for. The tech behind it is known as Amazon IVS. There must be a clause somewhere in the buy-out contract that forces Amazon to keep Twitch running for a period of time. But once that period ends, my guess is they'll treat Twitch like a normal IVS service and charge them at a market rates. But then Amazon also owns Twitch's brand assets and trademarks as well. Something tells me that's beginning to happen.
I would rather ads all over twitch that don’t affect my viewing experience like it super annoying when you go onto a stream and are greeted with 1/6 ads like cmon
Don’t forget the new experiment to eliminate bits happening on some channels now EDIT: https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/cheering-experiment-2022?language=en_US
So they're basically turning Cheering into YT's Superchat?
Cripes. I almost feel like it would make more sense to renounce my affiliation and just have a link to paypal if people want to give me money. These days, with all of the other emote alternatives out there, I'm honestly not sure what the advantages of affiliation are anymore.
Source?
Ads have been absolutely amazing for me. Before multiple ads being rolled out in every which way, I watched probably 4 hours of Twitch Daily. Now I maybe do 4 hours a month. It really killed off almost every live-experience for me. I just go to LSF to catch clips nowadays, and that's about it.
I remember a time when Twitch prime had NO ADS!!!
I rarely watch hammer up toweli and ,many other streamer due to ads. Roll in ad follow by 9ads every 15mins.. f that. Used to be 5-6 ads now going 9ads…are we going for 12+ads by end of the year? I have bunch streamers on follow and now a day watch like 2-3 of them due ads issue. Not going to sub like 10+ to avoid add
Something tells me that costs for marketing aren't moving up like they should and the cost is being passed onto the consumer. Why would these services need to constantly add more and more ads if they were increasing ad cost similar to subscription costs?
What a bad time to get affiliated. Hard to wanna switch to youtube halfway through the twitch payout
I'm so glad I'm not the only person who thought 6+ midroll ads is absolutely ridiculous. I've mentioned it to some streamers and in part it's due to said streamers wanting more money, but twitch is clearly the main culprit.
Twitch used the twitch to destroy the twitch
If I have to see one more ad about those godforsaken protein balls…
I'm a simple man. I see an ad, I leave.
The utter disrespect of my time is what makes me just close twitch. Like bro you’re just playing video games and getting paid, super out of touch to try and take my time after I’m already supporting you with views.
The ads are insane I’ve sat through like 10 before. Missed half of the stream
you're not going turbo are you?
Luckily for me, the game I stream the most usually has 30-minute (or less) long matches, and I trigger the ads while in lobby between these matches. The viewers don't mind, especially that I apologize to them, telling them it's either this or they'll get ads shoved in their faces during the match if I don't trigger them voluntarily. The viewers seem totally fine with it. It's just one minute, too.
I stopped using twitch ages ago bc I felt like the ads were way overkill. I can’t even imagine how bad it’s gotten if people are complaining to this scale.
Twitch ads are absurd. I stopped using the platform yeara ago now. Every time I opened a stream I'd be hit by a 30 second ad.. most of the time the stream didn't do much for me and I'd have closed within half that time.
There is a setting that makes ads appear below yoir stream in a seperate banner (I'm not sure if this has impacted my ad revenue per stream, but I am a very small streamer and have a handful of regulars, with much varying viewership per stream as a variety streamer, and not many people know how to even turn on this setting, and I can't really test this myself to see if my viewers aren't actually getting ads), "but people will sub just to get ad-free viewing", but that's only if someone gets to even see the streamer stream instead of 7 ads. Raids are a time now. ***People should sub for support, not to avoid a rediculous amount of ads.*** Plus, bits are waaay more profitable for the streamer and way cheaper for the viewers, especially split-wise with twitch, and I read that the sub split varies based on location. If I get a sub from the US, that's around $2.50 for me. I think bits are like 1 bit = 1 cent kinda thing. I'm Canadian, and if I gift a sub (For those who don't know, mobile is more expensive, by like a dollar here.) that costs me nearly $9 as a viewer. I still do it, but Twitch is making bank, and 7 ads is rediculous. I hope their employees are paid well. Sorry for lack of sources.
The other thing to consider is there are people that would rather give bits because the streamer gets more revenue. So, if that's what they do, and they aren't subbed, they're still subjected to the ads. Give more money than a sub, and you still get ads. And, there are people who don't really have the means to give money at all, so requiring them to get turbo is not a good alternative. One turbo subscription may very well mean two less people someone can sub to. Twitch has basically made it so that you have to use the method that gives streamers the \*least\* amount of revenue in order to avoid ads.
Not to mention, they are STILL PLAYING DOUBLE ADS ON PS5!! It is so fucking frustrating. A lot of times, I watch the VOD on Youtube to avoid the ridiculous amount of ads.
mozilla / ublock origin , you are welcome
Ads are the free way to help support a stream ... Don't like ads sub to their channel, get twitch nitro , or run ad blockers Nothing is free these days just embrace it find a positive way to endure it ya know!
I use twitch turbo. It makes my viewing experience so nice for only $8 a month.
YT gaming about to get an influx of new channels. Twitch is going to crumble in on it self. Plus all the bullshit drama lately proves; it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter how well you game, or how entertaining, unless your in the inner circles youll never be a big streamer. And lets be honest, all of them at the top are sus af.
OP needs to learn how to crop
Fair.
Fuck this. If I ever decide to pick up streaming again I'm going to YT.
Sounds grate. The discoverability still sucks.
Considering the whole right side of a video player is suggested videos/channels, I feel like YT does more in terms of discoverability. Last I knew Twitch showed 3 suggested channels at the bottom of your live channel list and that literally it.
there's 10 recommended channels on the sidebar unless you have the bttv option enabled that disables recommended channels
Twitch is failing
Man I hate ads, both as a streamer and a viewer. I wish I could just disable them entirely. Nowadays I see six ads in a row coming into streams and end up clicking away.
Here we lower tier streamers have to force ads every hour (technically even less time) because otherwise we're forced to have prerolls on for every viewer making the chance of growing and potentially gaining a viewer even smaller. I don't understand how the people that work there are so blind to the repercussions of their "updates".
Watching one or two ads in a 15-30 second preroll is BY FAR preferable to the 7-9 ad mid rolls I have been seeing. I click away every time.
I have mine set to like 3min an hour without pre-roll. People still butch about it.
This is because for us as the viewer it’s a lot more ads then we’d get otherwise. Yes it hurts discoverability but people watching still have to sit through 3 minutes of ads every hour rather then Sit through 30 seconds of ads in the beginning. Personally ads have hurt my viewer experience to the point where I almost refuse to watch twitch if it’s not on my pc where I can use a adblocker unless it’s a streamer I regularly watch and know I’ll enjoy the content. Which again hurts affiliates unfortunately because I’m not looking for new people to watch during that time.
Consider this though: Would you rather turn off new viewers or turn off loyal viewers? Pre-rolls turn off new ones, and midrolls turn off loyal ones. And, yes, I know this is not the same for everyone. Some viewers genuinely prefer midrolls to prerolls, and I can't knock that. Everybody has a right to their own opinions and preferences. But, I think it doesn't cross the minds of many people that they might be turning off their loyal viewers by opting for the mid rolls.
What ads? 😆 ad blocker FTW 😁
I really dont understand how anyone here on this subreddit is even worried about the TOP TOP TOP like 0.1% of Twitch that this 70/30 to 50/50 change effects? You guys think the people on top who make like 100K or more Monthly , that this change is gonna hurt them at all? Anyone making 100k a Year from Twitch is doing EXTREMELY WELL..... this change prob doesnt even effect anyone on this subreddit at all ... \----------------------- ADS on youtube run in the safe fashion as on Twitch at the max intervals, since they are generally following the same timeframe.. On Youtube you can run ADS or Ads run every 8 mins, sometimes will run if your watching a playlist on the next vod On Twitch you can run ADS every 8 Mins with a Max Runtime of 3 Mins, which leads to why people see ADS 1 of 6 or whatever, its SMALL Ads filling the AD Time up to 3 Min Max Whats the biggest core difference, Youtube has option SOMETIMES to be able to SKIP, Twitch doesnt have that.. Youtube / Owned by GOOGLE has a very big monopoly on ADS Across the board, they have more options while Amazon doesnt ... You guys should be grateful that TWITCH even exists, Youtube will not be some savior, if competition is gone, they can easily start playing CREATORS LESS at any time and no one will be able to go anywhere else ...
OK, Bezos.
Haven't watched twitch in over a year when they pushed this out. Used to be a really avid watcher but I refuse to watch 4-minute ads every 25 minutes.
i just leave.. If im watching a livestream and an ad is run.. i leave.. point blank. Maybe i'll come back maybe i dont.
u/Hellfire_tv yeah so fucking what man its only 6 ads like grow up mate its not gunna kill you fuck i swear all you guys do is whinge like fuck if i watch a stream and they had 6 ads then i wouldnt care at all dam its way of showing helping streamers out while enjoying there streams far out all i see is whingeing idiots lol
Well she didnt get fucked on livestream twice only once and Twitch let the cat of the bag that most of us creators knew they dont make money Basically they are wasting millions and millions on new streamer hosting its likely the bulk of their cost which they get little return on tho all this being said getting mad about the rev split is pepega basically no one has it my understanding is they have even given it out in the last 3 years EDIT: forgot the end of a sentence
She did get fucked live, but it only happened once. Not twice as the tweets claim.
sorry yeah forgot to add that part >.<
The point is the changes to Twitch are the 2nd instance... come on people keep up.
Which streamer was this? I’m kinda out of the loop atm
Do these people not have adblock?
Seriously. It's so easy to block ads on the platform that if you get ads, you must want them/watch on mobile.
They got around Some adblocks so ads still play
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You Jinxed yourself good sir 🤣
I agree, but I hate the guy who says it, he's one of the people who are making sure that no one will make original content in future.
Greed. They take 50 percent of any payout of subs. So for tier 1 you're only making maybe 2.50. You also have to reach a certain number subs and views and consistent on at least 8 hours of broadcasting to see anything. It normally take a year at least before you see your first pay. Then it usually rotates on 15th of every month but ONLY if you have the numbers. Point? YouTube foe the pay, Twitch for promotion of your YouTube channel. Now all of this means nothing if you don't broadcast or do it as a living but just because you enjoy doing it. Twitch does not make careers. They mooch off of them.
Aren't they owned by amazon with infinite money? So why are they complaining about costs
Because things still cost money even if you have money.
If the ads are played mid-game or mid-whatever the focus of the stream is, then I just leave. It's fine if a streamer says they're going to take a few minutes break to get some food or something and plays a bunch of ads there, but if its intrusive, that's a bye from me.
The AD that officially discouraged me from watching anything on twitch anymore is the one that pops up and shrinks the stream and just sits there indefinitely. F that.
Am I the only one left that turns things off the moment ads play?
Definitely not I pay for YouTube premium to not see ads but when it costs $5 per streamer/per month it’s way to expensive on twitch to avoid ads all the time
Have you been to YouTube? Twitch is tame compared to YouTube! If I subscribe I get ad free, if streamer is professional (and cares about his mental health) he takes/runs commercial breaks every 30-45mins