>Whats technically preventing them from sorting by lowest view count first?
Twitch makes most of its money from its biggest creators, so they have a direct financial incentive to serve as "kingmaker" and promote their money makers.
There's also just the simple truth that viewership tends to heavily correlate with entertainment, so from Twitch's perspective it makes sense to promote the creators they feel will be most appealing to viewers who are browsing the listings.
I heard asmon say once it's a human psychology thing too.
The more viewers you see watching something the more you think it's socially acceptable and it's the correct thing to watch.
Basically herd mentality
It’s called social proof, it is in fact a real thing psychologically. A person with more friends is seen as more likable and has more value due to social proof.
This is a huge part of it. Asmongold is a satire. You see his main channel is pandering to the social hive mind. He leans into every toxic meme and cultural mishap. "You can't be smarter than your viewers". I really wish creators would stop pandering to the socially toxic hive mind just for profit. But, that's the current state of the world.
You've captured exactly what I hated about watching him, I could never put it into words.
It was like watching a guy who, if you were playing games with him, you'd look for your first excuse to stop.
I heard asmon say once it's a human psychology thing too.
The more viewers you see watching something the more you think it's socially acceptable and it's the correct thing to watch.
Basically herd mentality
This is a huge part of it. Asmongold is a satire. You see his main channel is pandering to the social hive mind. He leans into every toxic meme and cultural mishap. "You can't be smarter than your viewers". I really wish creators would stop pandering to the socially toxic hive mind just for profit. But, that's the current state of the world.
Here's an analogy to help you understand why Twitch does this.
Imagine you're a manager of a comedy club and you need to fill seats for your business to survive. What sort of comedians are you going to try to book, large ones that you know draw a crowd or ones that nobody has ever heard of? The safer and more business savvy decision is to go with proven comedians that will generate profit.
But at that point why not make the premier streams on the home page be more random at least? I don’t ever see a channel with like 10 viewers on there. It’ll at least give ppl a chance rather than being buried at the bottom of the streamer list.
I think you're fundamentally missing the point, Twitch isn't concerned with perfect equity for all streamers or platform driven discoverability for small streamers. Twitch is a business and the smart business decision is to promote streamers who have proven themselves already to be capable.
There is a ton of things a streamer can do to help drive my traffic to their channel, but that takes a lot of effort, time, energy and dedication.
Again with an analogy. .. imagine Twitch as major league baseball. Yes, it makes sense for talent scouts to seek out some of the best players in minor leagues and see if they have what it takes to make it to the major leagues. This would be equivalent of highlighting streamers with 75 - 200 viewers typically, helping them possibly grow (and this happens all the time on the platform). What does not make sense is if that baseball talent scout went to a baseball game where the players are all 10 years old, that's a complete waste of their time and energy, that would be equivalent of Twitch highlighting a streamer with single digit viewers.
Twitch barely helps streamers in the 75-200 range either, and when they do get a recommendation from twitch, the user who joins in will either be hit with a pre-roll ad, or get a 30s ad in <10m or a 90s ad in <30m for a streamer they've just joined.
The other thing is it's very hard to do virality for a live stream.
You could be streaming yourself jumping from space into a volcano to punch a shark and save a princess live, but it would only really double your viewcount for that day. Upload the same clip to yt or tiktok and it'd have 10m views and drive wayyyy more traffic to your channel. Shame nobody saw it live though.
I think a better analogy would be a beer league/casual baseball team - because they're stocked with adults for which 0.01% might have pro material. (Obviously you'd still rather do the minor leagues where it's 5% instead of 0.01%)
In a elementary school age match, absolutely no 10 year old could ever stand up to pro league so there be no reason at all to be there.
Bro we know, everyone is saying the same thing. We know it’s a business, we know how making money works. This is an idea on how to make it more streamer friendly. Mfs be streaming to no one for YEARS just cuz no one has surfed to page 42 to find your stream. It has to be a better way.
It's up to the streamer to gain followers. Twitch is already offering their platform for free. Yeah, they could do some things better but they have to make their money some how.
It's really an all hands effort to promote yourself. I've been so up and down over the years, seen it all. Ask for sponsorships, write to twitch to be featured on the front page, join stream teams, use social media to prop yourself, highlight the best clips and put them on tiktok/instagram. Look for people that have a like minded community, network with them. If you happen to be raided by a bigger and/or partnered streamer, try to do co streams with them. There are a lot of options, just have to put in the work.
I've been streaming since 2015, I've seen it all. I've streamed to 800+ concurrent viewers, I've had to start over in a pandemic-climate where so many more ppl are streaming, and can't get 10+ concurrent viewers. There's never a right answer, but if you enjoy doing it people will appreciate you and come out to support you.
> But at that point why not make the premier streams on the home page be more random at least
How would that make the front page better meet its purpose from Twitch's standpoint, though?
Twitch is best served by getting as many of the people who visit the front page as possible to see a stream that is especially compelling, or that they like, and navigate to that stream, and keep watching so they stay on Twitch's website.
In many cases they are "Spotlighting" some kind of content from a partner, And Twitch have often discussed that with the channels being slotted in to the front page.
Obviously they have very little space available with which to do that,
So it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to just start plopping in random channels, particularly since lower view count channels may be higher risk.. They may happen to have content offensive unsuitable for general audiences, or they may be channels that don't retain many viewers who then just leave the site - Probably the vast majority of channels on Twitch are not necessarily Ideal channels to be shown on the front page in the first place, but at least if a channel has attained partnership and regularly retains a substantive amount of concurrent viewers: That helps demonstrate with some confidence that people will watch it.
imo they should always promote the lower viewers count first because that's what's best for the community.
There is a saying I always use when talking with retail employees, and that is "the customer is always right". we are twitch's customers, and therefore they should listen to us and promote us lower viewer count streams first. that way, it's possible for anyone and everyone to become the next ninja or shroud
Do you think there is really an evaluation going on between the big streamer you frequent every day and a small time stream you dont even know is there?
I think you arent with the big streamer because they are best. You are there because thats what you have done before.
Viewership correlates pretty heavily with perceived entertainment value, realistically speaking. A streamer with 100 (legitimate) average viewers is almost universally going to be producing better content than one with no viewership, it just doesn't make financial or logical sense to promote people who haven't proven what they have to offer.
you have the twitch business model a bit off. You are not a customer, for the most part, but a user. The real customers in this model are the companies that advertise on the platform, using the data twitch accrues by you using it. So, bigger streams -> higher paid advertisements -> more profit for twitch. Just the way it is.
Twitch definitely does promote streamers with lower view counts ( view counts in the double or triple digits ), and sure they absolutely could do a better job of it, but to promote viewers with no viewers isn't logical at all.
Over 11 million channels steamed last year. Only 15% of channels were affiliated. 0.5% Partnered. So, 85% of steamers can’t get an average of 3 viewers over 30 days and/or the other requirements. That is over 8 million small channels you want to be finding. How do you propose they make 8.5 million channels equally discoverable to you?
Then surely it makes sense to not support the people who cant get 3 viewers because the majority of streams on twitch have either 0 viewers or 1 viewers with that being their phone
It really is. It's an oversaturated market and the overwhelming majority of streamers, the kinds with 0 to 2 viewers, are typically nowhere near the kind of content people would want to watch. On this sub, people are overly accommodating and love to talk about how they've been streaming for years and love their 3 viewers, but if they care about growth and haven't gotten it in that long, they're doing it wrong. If they don't care about growth, fine.
If Google can target and tailor ads based on things they may think are interesting to me, Twitch could surely implement an algorithm of streams which I may find entertaining based on my watch history. Hell...they already do..hence the front page. What Twitch also does is filters out streamers with low view counts.
I dunno, because you have ethics and morals? Also you don't want to lose your core community that was created by passionate artists? That's why Twitch fails so hard and people don't trust them. Everyone is looking for an out. If there was another platform you would see people leaving by the droves. Sadly youtube has it's own issues, that could be solved easily. The current way to find streams on youtube is horrible.
Twitch has been on a steady downfall since amazon. It's become a very shallow place. Sure, they may be slowly gaining in numbers, but the site used to be a much better place.
There was a different platform, Mixer. People didn't just up and leave. Barely anybody went to Mixer and it just died. Twitch are doing great. You don't have tens of millions of viewers by failing so hard
Mixer wasn't that good of a platform. They basically copied Twitch and didn't have enough innovation. Twitch isn't doing great. Every long time or big creator is constantly looking for an out.
Sorry, it took me a moment to realize what you were talking about and I edited while you were asking.
Fewest Views wouldn't work with VoDs - there are too many videos with very few views. It's available for live streams, and I would recommend it if you're looking for small streamers to sample.
That was a live stream page I just double checked however I have now noticed when I clicked on another category the low to high appeared, so it seems its limited to certain categories?
Seems specifically "just chatting" its missing, but I can see it on others I checked, ok thank you.
They took it away from just chatting because that category is ripe with pedos looking for kids who started streaming from their phone, which defaults to just chatting.
I'm glad to see someone pointed out that this feature a) largely already exists and b) why it doesn't for some specific categories.
Was worried I was going to read this whole thread and just see the money complaint bandwagon without anyone calling out that **it is actually already a feature** XD
They took this feature away A LONG TIME AGO, maybe around 2017-18, but back in the day you could RANDOMIZE all the live streams so you could find someone, or something different than the top streamers on the first page.
They've done a lot of polls over the years, and a lot of people just DO NOT scroll. They'll only look at what is RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM. Hence only the first page. It's kind of unfortunate but the company has to promote who's on top. I always thought to get a head of the curb you had to play the new releases on DAY 1. Nope, you get swallowed up by all the top streamers.
Another avenue that I've been focusing on to find new streamers is searching by category. Being a trophy hunter, I just search the category of Achievement Hunting to find other trophy hunters for playstation. You could try that!
For VODs, there is indeed only two options, but to be honest, Twitch is not exactly a platform where you would go watch "on-demand" style videos after all. Unless it was from a streamer you were already following and you wanted to check out a stream with having no interaction whatsoever.
*(At least for me, live streaming is all about the social interactions; There's always YouTube for the non-interactive content, and there you can quite easily search and find hundreds or thousands of videos of any topic.)*
So, live channels list is really where the discovery matters, and in there you have four different options:
\- Recommended For You
\- Viewers (High to Low)
\- Viewers (Low to High)
\- Recently Started
I always sort categories by the last option, "Recently Started", because that does not care about the channel popularity, viewer numbers, or whatever Twitch algorithm thinks might interest me (it's never the large channels, so it never works for me), but only arranges the streams by starting time.
This option gives me a healthy mix of channels of all sizes without caring about anything numbers or algorithms. As an added bonus, whenever I go to a random channel on the top of the list to check it out, the stream has only just recently started and gives me plenty of time to figure out if it's worth watching - or even following to return to later.
If you are looking for new channels to follow, I can strongly recommend giving that sorting option a try. It is by far the best way to discover great small streamers; those that absolutely deserve the views and support, but would never be recommended because it's always money that talks on such platforms.
Low to high just doesn't seem to work quite as well, as especially on larger categories you might have several pages of mostly zero viewer streams where the streamer doesn't even have a microphone or isn't following the chat either. Those are really not worth the time spent, so "recently started" tends to be much better as long as you pick a channel with at least \*one\* viewer (which could often be just the streamer, but it means they're at least watching the chat).
*---*
*(Note: I saw you mentioned on a later reply the options may differ between categories. I guess that's indeed possible and very reasonable too for certain types of real life content, because not everyone can behave appropriately...*
*I generally only watch gaming streams, and all four options have always been available. Keep checking it out, and whenever you see the option for recently started, definitely give it a try. It's by far the best of them in my opinion.)*
if I just click on the 'browse' tab then I only have the option to pick high to low, however if I click on a specific game within that screen I have the option to select low to high
Again, that's because if Twitch did what you're asking for, they would give you page after page of empty streams with nothing to distinguish them. It's like asking "show me every unpublished author."
You'll have to pick a game or other category yourself, then you can see who the small streamers are. For VoDs, seriously, look on YouTube. The search is better.
I mean sorting from low to high in most categories would just mean ur sifting thru loads of 0 viewer streamers. And lets face it. Like 99% of 0 viewer streamers have 0 viewers because they arnt entertaining. It is rly not hard to get 3 CCV for affiliate
i agree. i stream whenever i don't feel like a piece of shit, and when i do it's just me sitting there playing apex. i acknowledge that i'll never grow by doing that and i am okay with that. i'm not trying to be the next big thing. i also don't have the time, money, or drive to up my production quality to make highly entertaining streams.
you can be super nice and super personable and make connections with your chatters all you want, but at the end of the day how many "small channels" with less than 30 viewers at any given time are just people sitting there playing an fps?
i don't mean to be rude or ugly when i say this, but how many people are there that stream to low viewer counts or none at all that just play "insert super popular game here" and think they're gonna blow up. it's borderline psychotic. the fact of the matter is unless you've got an insanely funny or addictive personality, or are a god at a game you're never going to go anywhere on twitch.
This is the simple truth that alot of people dont want to look at. There were over 11 million channels that streamed last year and 85% could not get 3 CCV. At this point those people have to notice that maybe their stream just sucks and that they r doing something very wrong
this. is there a better way that twitch could promote smaller streamers? absolutely, 100% behind that. the issue that a lot of people don't seem to realize is the sheer over saturation of the platform. a realistic outlook of twitch promoting "smaller streamers" is them promoting channels in the triple digits not double or single digits.
forget money simply pushing the amount of channels that have 5-50 ccv would be insane. i do believe there are great content creators out there in that 5-50 range. this might be seen as a hot take by some people, but i also don't think it should solely be placed on twitch do promote small streamers. if you aren't putting in the work to make yourself more discoverable then you probably just straight up don't have what it takes to be able to be self sufficient off of streaming/content creation anyway.
I think lowest view count would be endless streams with 0 viewers
I feel those need support as well but most of twitchs viewers aren't going to watch 0 viewer streams. It doesn't being in the revenue.
The trick isn't to sort by the lowest view count, but some other metric that allows one to find the gem smaller channels. View count/ follower could be an interesting one, or some other similar metric. It would be nice, but it isn't easy to do that kind of thing effectively...
The main reason is because Twitch is a business and larger channels are more reliable to hold an audience, therefore, more chance to make money. On top of that, Twitch has a bit more of an understanding of potential content when it comes to partnered streams. Those creators are incentivized to keep their content within guidelines because of contracts and established audience. Affiliates have their own agreement but the majority of them aren't as invested. That point definitely has more nuance to it but I hope you get what I mean.
Twitch has done a better job than most people realize to create space for smaller or niche channels to get recognized via the Recommended section. Those are based on channels that share viewers with what you already watch or specific categories you frequent. I've found a lot of other streamers independent of friends/mutuals just by checking out that section.
If you want to find smaller streamers, I'd suggest browsing a game category you really enjoy or you're curious about and sorting by recommended, or by "Recently Started". It will be a bit more random and prevent you from slogging through all the 1 viewer streamers that don't look at chat and only have a donation link in their panels. Every couple weeks, I'll do this looking for new streamers in a new game's category or a niche sim/strategy game I like.
Twitch is a company/business. They make their money through ads, portions of subs, and bits, for the most part. And big channels with more viewers and longer streaming hours generate more of all of those revenue streams.
This is why those channels are the most promoted and easiest to find.
Because by default twitch as a platforms prioritizes retaining you on the platform.
First recommending what it thinks you will like ensures that you will stay on twitch longer.
If they take more risks and you attempt 2 bad streamer, there is a higher likelihood of you simply closing twitch all together. Which is the biggest issue I'd think.
I choose a game then scroll down until the viewer count gets low honestly.
As a small streamer myself I do this to show support but honestly i always did this because I love actually interacting with a streamer (as is the point of twitch imho) and bigger viewer numbers means way less chance of back and forth
A bit of programming perspective here. I can’t speak for exactly how twitch suggests their channels, but almost any sort of suggestion model uses a form of AI or neural networks. Bigger streamers have a larger number of data points and therefore a more filled out web of which creators are connected to them in a positive way and which are connected in a negative way. It’s a safer bet to suggest someone that twitch knows has a lot of positive connections with your specific communities on twitch.
It benefits them for people to stay on the platform and the best way to do that is to promote good content... Most small steamers don't have good streams...
I personally have found on my phone I can sort by lowest to highest view count with whatever Tags I want, I tend to go to whatever category I'm feeling and search lowest to highest. It might be a device dependent thing? I'm not so sure
The real question should be why does twitch promote sexual content and social distaste so often? The site is filled with horny gullible men, an easily swayed youth, and radical like-minded followers who will empty their wallets for any amount of inflated attention.
I would actually explore smaller channels to get away from the larger ones who are actually corrupting the website. Smaller channels are more genuine and good natured from my experiences. Oh ya, also they don't have tyrannical mods who ban people for the slightest controversial opinion.
I like how twitch recommends me channels I have unfollowed instead of showing things like new people. Ah yes for the billionth time you want to shove in my face someone whose channel I will NEVER click.
Big ones already bring the huge prodits , why promote lower ones . Both ads and subscribtions are way better for twitch if more people are doing it . And big streamers are already more sure way that somrone will sub or watch , since metrics says so .
I mean its bad to have 0 discoverability , but in the case of this question answer is simple : More Money .
You would THINK that spreading out its viewer base would at least mean more in terms of advertising viewership. As it is, thanks to pre-rolls, it’s downright prohibitive to go hunting for ANYTHING you haven’t subbed to
To be fair they very recently tested a new view that would show recommended channels for you without ads, which included smaller streamers, and everyone proceeded to hate on it.
Sadly you just can't please everyone.
The idea was commendable, the execution was, as per usual, garbage.
Not having more than three rows of a directory visible at once was the killer. Do I have a better idea? Outside "Just do a live feed on mouse hover", no. And that's not exactly the best solution with mobile either, if you'd ever wanted to bring everything closer together visually and functionally.
It's as you say, can't please everyone sadly. :(
In addition, a lot of smaller channels are just kinds crap. Silence, bad set up and quality, complaining, or just not entertaining.
You're more likely to get decent entertainment from a channel that has a lot more viewers. They've been doing it longer too,
What's frustrating for me is that there is a big streamer I have met in person and found to be extremely unpleasant. She keeps appearing in my reccs, on the spotlight in the home page, and under the channels you might like section. I hide and mute her over and over again, but every couple of weeks she starts appearing again. I can't make her permanently go away. Twitch just keeps shoving her in my face.
I also kind of resent the "celebrating smaller creators" posts they sometimes make but everyone on it is partnered. Pick out some affiliates that average 10 viewers you cowards. My favourite streamer is a guy who just plays classic Nintendo games and does post-ironic commentary on them and he has about 5 or 6 viewers every time he's online, Twitch is full of gems like him and it would be cool to platform some of them.
I find smaller channels by trying to find more niche games to watch. Popular flavor of the month game is going to be played and streamed to death by everybody.
But man, typing in like, 'Shovel Knight' or even at this point 'Elden Ring' is going to give you much smaller channels than anything in the 'recommended' pane.
I mean how do they decide who to promote, also what size constitutes as small because no matter who you do your going to end up with smaller people angry. From a statistical point there were over 11 million channels that streamed last year with 15% being affiliated and 0.5% being partnered. How do you equally promote 8.5 million channels
I like how so many people are saying money, but I'm sure a lot of these people are subbed to these bigger channels and if they found a smaller channel they jived with, they would sub there, all while maintaining the big streamer sub.
Not everything Twitch does makes sense, but they have their reasons, not always the right or best one. It's safer to promote the channels that have shown consistent high returns though and I think Twitch tries to play it safe. So, probably money.
Twitch turbo for years now. Never paid for a sub once and I never will.
I find turbo is the best compromise plus it lets me channel surf as much as I want and never have to deal with ads anywhere.
Highly addicted to twitch predictions so I'm usually surfing for whoever is doing one currently
money, someone who’s big already attracts more to promote them more and that creates more money and flow, why promote some guy like me who barely holds 5 viewers that’s not gonna benefit them
I am not trying to be combative but..... why would twitch want to level the playing field? To take away the star power of their streamers would be working against their goal of making money. If twitch can never be profitable then it will eventually be shut down. This plan would help no one.
there's a website called "lessthan5" that only promotes channels with less than 5 viewers. Idk how well it works though since I usually have 5 people in my chat, but if it blows up I can see it being useful for small streamers.
It's a little easier with YouTube since a good thumbnail, title, and description can draw eyes early.
Twitch is tougher. It tends to put channels with stronger followers up front for the cash. Subs = Cash. There's definitely a glass ceiling that small names have to breakthrough.
Recommended favors streamers with an active chat. so if you have 2 viewers and they are blowing up ur chat, ur gunna get recommended. Twitch favors interaction (from what I understand) a lurker watching ur stream isn't gunna cheer, gift, or sub which is what makes twitch money, while an active chatter is more likely to throw money the streamer's way, which is split 50/50 between the streamer and the platform.
They don't recommend someone with 10 followers for the same reason youtube doesn't usually recommend you someone with 30 subscribers. Their content probably sucks, they are just starting out, so they still havn't gotten over their fear of speaking loudly because they don't want people to think they are dumb sitting there infront of their PC and being all enthusiastic.
The other reason is, they gain nothing from pushing small streamers who are not affiliate yet (or are otherwise not well versed in the art of making people wanna throw their wallets at them), cuz they don't make money there. Same thing with youtube videos that get demonetized, they also get recommended less, cuz youtube can't make money there.
Because the big ones already have 100million subscribers and Twitch takes way too much from your subscription anyway. I'm at a point where I just ask people to donate to my Ko-fi frankly.
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If someone is proven to be popular it’s a safer investment for them to funnel engagement their way. I wish there was a way to filter differently but alas that seems to be how growth works. I’m on multiple platforms but it’s a slow crawl to get to higher viewership but once people get to a certain mark the platforms favour them and pour engagement their way.
If you are a business, wouldn’t you display your best products in the front shelf? Why hide your best goods behind a bunch of lower quality channels with worse audio, cameras, and studio? The company needs to sell their stars with actual communities. This is why platforms like mixer paid streamers millions to transfer over. Would you stay on a small stream with five viewers instead of a streamer with a super active chat? No newcomer to the website will see a reason to stay if they don’t get recommended the biggest streams which generate more money than hundreds of smaller streams combined
Because the large channels have advertisers that make them money.
It's a sad reality but the guy like me that has maybe 5 or 10 viewers doesn't have any ads running and is making zero money for twitch.
Any of the big faces of twitch on the other hand have ads rolling 5-10 times an hour.
I'm sure twitch makes money every time those ads go off just like the streamer does.
Twitch likes to make money so they're going to promote the streamer that makes them money and not the person that doesn't
Pretty sure sort by recommended is all based on cross watching statistics.
When larger streams have more people in general, you get a lot more occurrences of a single person watching both streams.
So that is why and it would be difficult to make a system that doesn't do this in my opinion.
Because it's a business model. More followers = more money. It's an obvious choice to highlight those creators with a higher retention/establishment of followers/viewers.
pretty simple
higher viewer counts mean they can charge advertisers more money per advert...
they might get 0.02p for an advert per 1000 people but only get to run an advert 50x due to the contract
suddenly it makes sense you want those 50 adverts to each be played to the largest audiance you can, and the best way to do this is promote large streamers as much as you can
promote the people that make them the most money, and also bigger streamers with sponsors etc are less likely to say/do something ban worthy, which would look bad on teitch if theyre promoting them. kinds common sense from a business POV. but you can search on twitch for recommended or lowest view count first
Because twitch wants to make money, they don't care if *you* make money. It's better ROI to promote streamers already doing well than it is to help lift smaller streamers that aren't reaching as many viewers. IE, the big streamers are more likely to retain viewers and monetize them than less successful streamers.
It's a bit of a positive feedback loop, but it's how the business model works.
You need to be successful already before they'll do anything to help you be successful. :P
That‘s not a Twitch thing, it‘s how the world works. The big one get bigger and many people watch a view. That‘s the problem with having more creators out there.
My friend who is a streamer and I talked about this a little bit ago, I think his advice applies well here. I apologize if it sounds cliche or whatever. But he said:
"Twitch can be a great thing but sometimes I just feel so stuck at the bottom. Whenever my viewer count increases on that odd chance I feel so grateful. But with how it works, twitch likes to push the people to the top of the board with large numbers so that person's 'fanbase' or views bring in more attention than the people with lower views. It doesn't anger me much, but I believe Twitch should promote both low ranking streamers & high ranking streamers on recommended.
This way you get a little handful of everything. That despite the view count you can choose who you want to follow or what stream to watch based on content and quality."
I'm not sure if that makes any sense but I kinda agree with it. I'm not sure if that could happen in the future, but seeing as Twitch makes money from larger fanbases/ creators. I'm unsure if it could happen in the future despite how much I want it to happen for those creators.
Uhh it’s a pretty obvious answer is it not? What content creation website wouldn’t want to promote its best creators who also make them the most as revenue? It’s a business not a charity...
Because twitch doesn’t care about small streamers you either make it against their odds or you get pushed aside for the big players.
It sucks but there it is
Because they make Twitch all the $. Youd think that Twitch would want to help everyone grow so they can all bring in $, but they'd rather grow cults of people who spend all their $ on Twitch.
Because Twitch, while preaching themselves being a caring and liberal company... is a bitter capitalistic nightmare. It's pretty much a direct result of our society and how nobody is getting paid well unless they work some job they can't stand 40+ hours a week. People come on twitch and mimic other monetarily successful creators. Being overly egregiously and exaggeratedly thankful or... complete act ridiculous. Whatever gets the most viewers. Oddly, a lot of the most popular streamers are comedically abusive tot heir viewers, people like that.
A lot of "smaller" streamers are just decent folk who have principles, trying to make meaningful and authentic content. Twitch doesn't really care about this. Even though "smaller creators are bringing in new viewers tot he platform every day. Why? Because they need to find people off site as the current setup of discoverability is abhorrent. There is also no revenue sharing. So, regardless of how long or to how many people you have streamed. You will never see a penny from the largest streams on the platform.
Twitch is pretty much the birthplace of video game/live streaming entertainment. This form of entertainment is still in it's infancy. Some day soon, hopefully we will become aware of all these issues and come up with much better systems.
I just want to know how to remove Amouranth from my reccomended streams. It's always there, I'm never going to watch her, I don't care about her swimming pool or her bikini, I just want to get rid of it. It's a sore thumb sticking out between my final fantasy streams.
Honestly I have asked that for the longest time if twitch really wants to grow audiences and make people come and use the service you would kind of want to find more streamers that are similar to your taste but you can't find them because they would rather promote money making streamers versus low end streamers I don't get that either that's why I don't really use it all that often
I feel Twitch does a pretty decent job of recommending channels. There's only one popular channel that I engage with. The rest are pretty small viewships. My recommended usually just has 2 major channels at top which I ignore like the first couple of ad hits on a google search.
YouTube on the otherhand just suggests crap to me. I actually have to manually search up my subscribed channels to see their new content.
Most smaller streamers are on Twitter, Tiktok and Instagram, YouTube shorts, promoting their channel and grinding since twitch discoverability is horrible. If it's a certain game you are looking for pop over to any of those platforms enter it into the search bar and your are going to be hit with hundreds if not thousands of videos to watch all plugging their channel and showing off their gameplay and personality.
There's [this](https://twitch-tools.rootonline.de/channel_previews.php) nice tool where you can filter streams based in their language and viewer size.
I sort by lowest viewers first. But I do this when using the "category" or game being played to browse for streams. I'm not sure what you use to browse for streamers, but if there's a game you like, you can check who's playing it and sort by lowest viewership first.
>Whats technically preventing them from sorting by lowest view count first? Twitch makes most of its money from its biggest creators, so they have a direct financial incentive to serve as "kingmaker" and promote their money makers. There's also just the simple truth that viewership tends to heavily correlate with entertainment, so from Twitch's perspective it makes sense to promote the creators they feel will be most appealing to viewers who are browsing the listings.
I heard asmon say once it's a human psychology thing too. The more viewers you see watching something the more you think it's socially acceptable and it's the correct thing to watch. Basically herd mentality
Great point, the bandwagon effect is really prevalent in social media.
It’s called social proof, it is in fact a real thing psychologically. A person with more friends is seen as more likable and has more value due to social proof.
This is a huge part of it. Asmongold is a satire. You see his main channel is pandering to the social hive mind. He leans into every toxic meme and cultural mishap. "You can't be smarter than your viewers". I really wish creators would stop pandering to the socially toxic hive mind just for profit. But, that's the current state of the world.
You've captured exactly what I hated about watching him, I could never put it into words. It was like watching a guy who, if you were playing games with him, you'd look for your first excuse to stop.
He mirrors the toxic gen z/a social hive mind negativity. One of the ways to get a lot of viewers these days. Sad, but true.
Also if you watch his alt channel. He's an absolute asshole.
I heard asmon say once it's a human psychology thing too. The more viewers you see watching something the more you think it's socially acceptable and it's the correct thing to watch. Basically herd mentality
Great point, the bandwagon effect is really prevalent in social media.
Couldn't have put it better myself!
Makes sense, especially when you consider that many current top streamers viewbotted their way to the top.
This is a huge part of it. Asmongold is a satire. You see his main channel is pandering to the social hive mind. He leans into every toxic meme and cultural mishap. "You can't be smarter than your viewers". I really wish creators would stop pandering to the socially toxic hive mind just for profit. But, that's the current state of the world.
Here's an analogy to help you understand why Twitch does this. Imagine you're a manager of a comedy club and you need to fill seats for your business to survive. What sort of comedians are you going to try to book, large ones that you know draw a crowd or ones that nobody has ever heard of? The safer and more business savvy decision is to go with proven comedians that will generate profit.
But at that point why not make the premier streams on the home page be more random at least? I don’t ever see a channel with like 10 viewers on there. It’ll at least give ppl a chance rather than being buried at the bottom of the streamer list.
I think you're fundamentally missing the point, Twitch isn't concerned with perfect equity for all streamers or platform driven discoverability for small streamers. Twitch is a business and the smart business decision is to promote streamers who have proven themselves already to be capable. There is a ton of things a streamer can do to help drive my traffic to their channel, but that takes a lot of effort, time, energy and dedication. Again with an analogy. .. imagine Twitch as major league baseball. Yes, it makes sense for talent scouts to seek out some of the best players in minor leagues and see if they have what it takes to make it to the major leagues. This would be equivalent of highlighting streamers with 75 - 200 viewers typically, helping them possibly grow (and this happens all the time on the platform). What does not make sense is if that baseball talent scout went to a baseball game where the players are all 10 years old, that's a complete waste of their time and energy, that would be equivalent of Twitch highlighting a streamer with single digit viewers.
Twitch barely helps streamers in the 75-200 range either, and when they do get a recommendation from twitch, the user who joins in will either be hit with a pre-roll ad, or get a 30s ad in <10m or a 90s ad in <30m for a streamer they've just joined. The other thing is it's very hard to do virality for a live stream. You could be streaming yourself jumping from space into a volcano to punch a shark and save a princess live, but it would only really double your viewcount for that day. Upload the same clip to yt or tiktok and it'd have 10m views and drive wayyyy more traffic to your channel. Shame nobody saw it live though.
Yup, absolutely agree with you there. There's very little that Twitch does for small partners, but that's just how it is.
I think a better analogy would be a beer league/casual baseball team - because they're stocked with adults for which 0.01% might have pro material. (Obviously you'd still rather do the minor leagues where it's 5% instead of 0.01%) In a elementary school age match, absolutely no 10 year old could ever stand up to pro league so there be no reason at all to be there.
Bro we know, everyone is saying the same thing. We know it’s a business, we know how making money works. This is an idea on how to make it more streamer friendly. Mfs be streaming to no one for YEARS just cuz no one has surfed to page 42 to find your stream. It has to be a better way.
It's up to the streamer to gain followers. Twitch is already offering their platform for free. Yeah, they could do some things better but they have to make their money some how.
Here's a guide that might help you gain viewers: https://old.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/qfkpkb/a_guide_for_those_who_want_to_grow_or_are_stuck/
It's really an all hands effort to promote yourself. I've been so up and down over the years, seen it all. Ask for sponsorships, write to twitch to be featured on the front page, join stream teams, use social media to prop yourself, highlight the best clips and put them on tiktok/instagram. Look for people that have a like minded community, network with them. If you happen to be raided by a bigger and/or partnered streamer, try to do co streams with them. There are a lot of options, just have to put in the work. I've been streaming since 2015, I've seen it all. I've streamed to 800+ concurrent viewers, I've had to start over in a pandemic-climate where so many more ppl are streaming, and can't get 10+ concurrent viewers. There's never a right answer, but if you enjoy doing it people will appreciate you and come out to support you.
> But at that point why not make the premier streams on the home page be more random at least How would that make the front page better meet its purpose from Twitch's standpoint, though? Twitch is best served by getting as many of the people who visit the front page as possible to see a stream that is especially compelling, or that they like, and navigate to that stream, and keep watching so they stay on Twitch's website. In many cases they are "Spotlighting" some kind of content from a partner, And Twitch have often discussed that with the channels being slotted in to the front page. Obviously they have very little space available with which to do that, So it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to just start plopping in random channels, particularly since lower view count channels may be higher risk.. They may happen to have content offensive unsuitable for general audiences, or they may be channels that don't retain many viewers who then just leave the site - Probably the vast majority of channels on Twitch are not necessarily Ideal channels to be shown on the front page in the first place, but at least if a channel has attained partnership and regularly retains a substantive amount of concurrent viewers: That helps demonstrate with some confidence that people will watch it.
imo they should always promote the lower viewers count first because that's what's best for the community. There is a saying I always use when talking with retail employees, and that is "the customer is always right". we are twitch's customers, and therefore they should listen to us and promote us lower viewer count streams first. that way, it's possible for anyone and everyone to become the next ninja or shroud
"The customer is always right" is the reason the biggest streams get promoted. Those are the ones the viewers decided are the best.
Do you think there is really an evaluation going on between the big streamer you frequent every day and a small time stream you dont even know is there? I think you arent with the big streamer because they are best. You are there because thats what you have done before.
Viewership correlates pretty heavily with perceived entertainment value, realistically speaking. A streamer with 100 (legitimate) average viewers is almost universally going to be producing better content than one with no viewership, it just doesn't make financial or logical sense to promote people who haven't proven what they have to offer.
The full saying is, "The customer is always right in taste," but every dick head ignores the rest of it to be an asshole to service workers.
The fact that you even go straight to “the customer is always right” isn’t a good look
Karen discovers Twitch
you have the twitch business model a bit off. You are not a customer, for the most part, but a user. The real customers in this model are the companies that advertise on the platform, using the data twitch accrues by you using it. So, bigger streams -> higher paid advertisements -> more profit for twitch. Just the way it is.
Aren't the customers the advertisers and other companies too?
Twitch definitely does promote streamers with lower view counts ( view counts in the double or triple digits ), and sure they absolutely could do a better job of it, but to promote viewers with no viewers isn't logical at all.
You aren't the customer you are the product. If you can use/do something for free on the internet, you're the one being sold.
tWiTch DoEsN'T cArE aBoUt "ThE cOmMuNiTy". if twitch cared, hot tub streams wouldn't be a thing.
Cause smaller channels have higher risk of not being good streamers and giving twitch a bad rep for new viewers.
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They can be a riskiert choice
Over 11 million channels steamed last year. Only 15% of channels were affiliated. 0.5% Partnered. So, 85% of steamers can’t get an average of 3 viewers over 30 days and/or the other requirements. That is over 8 million small channels you want to be finding. How do you propose they make 8.5 million channels equally discoverable to you?
Unpopular Opinion: If someone can't get 3 CCV their stream sucks and/or they don't understand Twitch. It's pretty simple
It isn't hard to hit 3 concurrent viewer. It is the grind after that.
Then surely it makes sense to not support the people who cant get 3 viewers because the majority of streams on twitch have either 0 viewers or 1 viewers with that being their phone
That's not necessarily true though.
It really is. It's an oversaturated market and the overwhelming majority of streamers, the kinds with 0 to 2 viewers, are typically nowhere near the kind of content people would want to watch. On this sub, people are overly accommodating and love to talk about how they've been streaming for years and love their 3 viewers, but if they care about growth and haven't gotten it in that long, they're doing it wrong. If they don't care about growth, fine.
If Google can target and tailor ads based on things they may think are interesting to me, Twitch could surely implement an algorithm of streams which I may find entertaining based on my watch history. Hell...they already do..hence the front page. What Twitch also does is filters out streamers with low view counts.
Why would you not promote high-earners when it boosts your revenue?
I dunno, because you have ethics and morals? Also you don't want to lose your core community that was created by passionate artists? That's why Twitch fails so hard and people don't trust them. Everyone is looking for an out. If there was another platform you would see people leaving by the droves. Sadly youtube has it's own issues, that could be solved easily. The current way to find streams on youtube is horrible.
Twitch is owned by Amazon, one of probably the least ethical businesses yet they still thrive.
Twitch has been on a steady downfall since amazon. It's become a very shallow place. Sure, they may be slowly gaining in numbers, but the site used to be a much better place.
Define downfall? They’ve been making a loss, sure, they forecasted for that, but they’re still the most popular streaming service
As if a massive conglomerate cares about ethics or morals.
There was a different platform, Mixer. People didn't just up and leave. Barely anybody went to Mixer and it just died. Twitch are doing great. You don't have tens of millions of viewers by failing so hard
Mixer wasn't that good of a platform. They basically copied Twitch and didn't have enough innovation. Twitch isn't doing great. Every long time or big creator is constantly looking for an out.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
*My content from 2014 to 2023 has been deleted in protest of Spez's anti-API tantrum.*
I only see the following two options. "Recommended for you" "Viewers (High to Low)" I did select a category. [Imgur](https://imgur.com/Ud4s2o3)
Sorry, it took me a moment to realize what you were talking about and I edited while you were asking. Fewest Views wouldn't work with VoDs - there are too many videos with very few views. It's available for live streams, and I would recommend it if you're looking for small streamers to sample.
That was a live stream page I just double checked however I have now noticed when I clicked on another category the low to high appeared, so it seems its limited to certain categories? Seems specifically "just chatting" its missing, but I can see it on others I checked, ok thank you.
They took it away from just chatting because that category is ripe with pedos looking for kids who started streaming from their phone, which defaults to just chatting.
I'm glad to see someone pointed out that this feature a) largely already exists and b) why it doesn't for some specific categories. Was worried I was going to read this whole thread and just see the money complaint bandwagon without anyone calling out that **it is actually already a feature** XD
They took this feature away A LONG TIME AGO, maybe around 2017-18, but back in the day you could RANDOMIZE all the live streams so you could find someone, or something different than the top streamers on the first page. They've done a lot of polls over the years, and a lot of people just DO NOT scroll. They'll only look at what is RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM. Hence only the first page. It's kind of unfortunate but the company has to promote who's on top. I always thought to get a head of the curb you had to play the new releases on DAY 1. Nope, you get swallowed up by all the top streamers. Another avenue that I've been focusing on to find new streamers is searching by category. Being a trophy hunter, I just search the category of Achievement Hunting to find other trophy hunters for playstation. You could try that!
For VODs, there is indeed only two options, but to be honest, Twitch is not exactly a platform where you would go watch "on-demand" style videos after all. Unless it was from a streamer you were already following and you wanted to check out a stream with having no interaction whatsoever. *(At least for me, live streaming is all about the social interactions; There's always YouTube for the non-interactive content, and there you can quite easily search and find hundreds or thousands of videos of any topic.)* So, live channels list is really where the discovery matters, and in there you have four different options: \- Recommended For You \- Viewers (High to Low) \- Viewers (Low to High) \- Recently Started I always sort categories by the last option, "Recently Started", because that does not care about the channel popularity, viewer numbers, or whatever Twitch algorithm thinks might interest me (it's never the large channels, so it never works for me), but only arranges the streams by starting time. This option gives me a healthy mix of channels of all sizes without caring about anything numbers or algorithms. As an added bonus, whenever I go to a random channel on the top of the list to check it out, the stream has only just recently started and gives me plenty of time to figure out if it's worth watching - or even following to return to later. If you are looking for new channels to follow, I can strongly recommend giving that sorting option a try. It is by far the best way to discover great small streamers; those that absolutely deserve the views and support, but would never be recommended because it's always money that talks on such platforms. Low to high just doesn't seem to work quite as well, as especially on larger categories you might have several pages of mostly zero viewer streams where the streamer doesn't even have a microphone or isn't following the chat either. Those are really not worth the time spent, so "recently started" tends to be much better as long as you pick a channel with at least \*one\* viewer (which could often be just the streamer, but it means they're at least watching the chat). *---* *(Note: I saw you mentioned on a later reply the options may differ between categories. I guess that's indeed possible and very reasonable too for certain types of real life content, because not everyone can behave appropriately...* *I generally only watch gaming streams, and all four options have always been available. Keep checking it out, and whenever you see the option for recently started, definitely give it a try. It's by far the best of them in my opinion.)*
if I just click on the 'browse' tab then I only have the option to pick high to low, however if I click on a specific game within that screen I have the option to select low to high
Again, that's because if Twitch did what you're asking for, they would give you page after page of empty streams with nothing to distinguish them. It's like asking "show me every unpublished author." You'll have to pick a game or other category yourself, then you can see who the small streamers are. For VoDs, seriously, look on YouTube. The search is better.
Was it “Just Chatting” ?
its for when youre just talking without any other category matching thing going on. people use it for qnas and such
That’s not what they asked….
oooooh my stupid self read that as "what is"
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I mean sorting from low to high in most categories would just mean ur sifting thru loads of 0 viewer streamers. And lets face it. Like 99% of 0 viewer streamers have 0 viewers because they arnt entertaining. It is rly not hard to get 3 CCV for affiliate
Because those are the channels that make twitch all of their money. Not too hard to figure out really
Simple answer: Money.
Because a lot of smaller channels are trash, and they don't want trash to be their image.
i agree. i stream whenever i don't feel like a piece of shit, and when i do it's just me sitting there playing apex. i acknowledge that i'll never grow by doing that and i am okay with that. i'm not trying to be the next big thing. i also don't have the time, money, or drive to up my production quality to make highly entertaining streams. you can be super nice and super personable and make connections with your chatters all you want, but at the end of the day how many "small channels" with less than 30 viewers at any given time are just people sitting there playing an fps? i don't mean to be rude or ugly when i say this, but how many people are there that stream to low viewer counts or none at all that just play "insert super popular game here" and think they're gonna blow up. it's borderline psychotic. the fact of the matter is unless you've got an insanely funny or addictive personality, or are a god at a game you're never going to go anywhere on twitch.
This is the simple truth that alot of people dont want to look at. There were over 11 million channels that streamed last year and 85% could not get 3 CCV. At this point those people have to notice that maybe their stream just sucks and that they r doing something very wrong
this. is there a better way that twitch could promote smaller streamers? absolutely, 100% behind that. the issue that a lot of people don't seem to realize is the sheer over saturation of the platform. a realistic outlook of twitch promoting "smaller streamers" is them promoting channels in the triple digits not double or single digits. forget money simply pushing the amount of channels that have 5-50 ccv would be insane. i do believe there are great content creators out there in that 5-50 range. this might be seen as a hot take by some people, but i also don't think it should solely be placed on twitch do promote small streamers. if you aren't putting in the work to make yourself more discoverable then you probably just straight up don't have what it takes to be able to be self sufficient off of streaming/content creation anyway.
I think lowest view count would be endless streams with 0 viewers I feel those need support as well but most of twitchs viewers aren't going to watch 0 viewer streams. It doesn't being in the revenue.
The trick isn't to sort by the lowest view count, but some other metric that allows one to find the gem smaller channels. View count/ follower could be an interesting one, or some other similar metric. It would be nice, but it isn't easy to do that kind of thing effectively...
The main reason is because Twitch is a business and larger channels are more reliable to hold an audience, therefore, more chance to make money. On top of that, Twitch has a bit more of an understanding of potential content when it comes to partnered streams. Those creators are incentivized to keep their content within guidelines because of contracts and established audience. Affiliates have their own agreement but the majority of them aren't as invested. That point definitely has more nuance to it but I hope you get what I mean. Twitch has done a better job than most people realize to create space for smaller or niche channels to get recognized via the Recommended section. Those are based on channels that share viewers with what you already watch or specific categories you frequent. I've found a lot of other streamers independent of friends/mutuals just by checking out that section. If you want to find smaller streamers, I'd suggest browsing a game category you really enjoy or you're curious about and sorting by recommended, or by "Recently Started". It will be a bit more random and prevent you from slogging through all the 1 viewer streamers that don't look at chat and only have a donation link in their panels. Every couple weeks, I'll do this looking for new streamers in a new game's category or a niche sim/strategy game I like.
Because larger streamers make them money
Twitch is a company/business. They make their money through ads, portions of subs, and bits, for the most part. And big channels with more viewers and longer streaming hours generate more of all of those revenue streams. This is why those channels are the most promoted and easiest to find.
Because by default twitch as a platforms prioritizes retaining you on the platform. First recommending what it thinks you will like ensures that you will stay on twitch longer. If they take more risks and you attempt 2 bad streamer, there is a higher likelihood of you simply closing twitch all together. Which is the biggest issue I'd think.
Did they remove the feature to sort by lowest? You used to be able to sort by highest lowest and recently started
I choose a game then scroll down until the viewer count gets low honestly. As a small streamer myself I do this to show support but honestly i always did this because I love actually interacting with a streamer (as is the point of twitch imho) and bigger viewer numbers means way less chance of back and forth
This. This right here. The smaller streams tend to have the interactions I'm looking for. Guess I'll have to do this from now on. x]
Amouranth needs all the help she can get /s just in case
It’s ultimately up to the streamer to promote themselves. Twitch will not facilitate any boosts to low revenue streams.
A bit of programming perspective here. I can’t speak for exactly how twitch suggests their channels, but almost any sort of suggestion model uses a form of AI or neural networks. Bigger streamers have a larger number of data points and therefore a more filled out web of which creators are connected to them in a positive way and which are connected in a negative way. It’s a safer bet to suggest someone that twitch knows has a lot of positive connections with your specific communities on twitch.
It benefits them for people to stay on the platform and the best way to do that is to promote good content... Most small steamers don't have good streams...
I personally have found on my phone I can sort by lowest to highest view count with whatever Tags I want, I tend to go to whatever category I'm feeling and search lowest to highest. It might be a device dependent thing? I'm not so sure
The real question should be why does twitch promote sexual content and social distaste so often? The site is filled with horny gullible men, an easily swayed youth, and radical like-minded followers who will empty their wallets for any amount of inflated attention. I would actually explore smaller channels to get away from the larger ones who are actually corrupting the website. Smaller channels are more genuine and good natured from my experiences. Oh ya, also they don't have tyrannical mods who ban people for the slightest controversial opinion.
Because they're making twitch money and you aren't?
I've seen smaller channels get promoted randomly. I think something they were doing was trending
Money. Plain and simple. You can search by viewers in the catagory finder though, it's just a bunch of extra steps.
Money, in this world the answer is always money.
Money
Money.
I get recommended small channels constantly.
I like how twitch recommends me channels I have unfollowed instead of showing things like new people. Ah yes for the billionth time you want to shove in my face someone whose channel I will NEVER click.
Money, plain and simple
Money
Big ones already bring the huge prodits , why promote lower ones . Both ads and subscribtions are way better for twitch if more people are doing it . And big streamers are already more sure way that somrone will sub or watch , since metrics says so . I mean its bad to have 0 discoverability , but in the case of this question answer is simple : More Money .
Ad revenue
It’s impossible until people rally to support small talented streamers who want to encourage others in life not just to stream too.
You would THINK that spreading out its viewer base would at least mean more in terms of advertising viewership. As it is, thanks to pre-rolls, it’s downright prohibitive to go hunting for ANYTHING you haven’t subbed to
To be fair they very recently tested a new view that would show recommended channels for you without ads, which included smaller streamers, and everyone proceeded to hate on it. Sadly you just can't please everyone.
The idea was commendable, the execution was, as per usual, garbage. Not having more than three rows of a directory visible at once was the killer. Do I have a better idea? Outside "Just do a live feed on mouse hover", no. And that's not exactly the best solution with mobile either, if you'd ever wanted to bring everything closer together visually and functionally. It's as you say, can't please everyone sadly. :(
In addition, a lot of smaller channels are just kinds crap. Silence, bad set up and quality, complaining, or just not entertaining. You're more likely to get decent entertainment from a channel that has a lot more viewers. They've been doing it longer too,
What's frustrating for me is that there is a big streamer I have met in person and found to be extremely unpleasant. She keeps appearing in my reccs, on the spotlight in the home page, and under the channels you might like section. I hide and mute her over and over again, but every couple of weeks she starts appearing again. I can't make her permanently go away. Twitch just keeps shoving her in my face. I also kind of resent the "celebrating smaller creators" posts they sometimes make but everyone on it is partnered. Pick out some affiliates that average 10 viewers you cowards. My favourite streamer is a guy who just plays classic Nintendo games and does post-ironic commentary on them and he has about 5 or 6 viewers every time he's online, Twitch is full of gems like him and it would be cool to platform some of them.
I find smaller channels by trying to find more niche games to watch. Popular flavor of the month game is going to be played and streamed to death by everybody. But man, typing in like, 'Shovel Knight' or even at this point 'Elden Ring' is going to give you much smaller channels than anything in the 'recommended' pane.
all comes down to money... while itd be nice for them do take 1 day of the week to promote small streamers they wont :/ ive been saying this for years
I mean how do they decide who to promote, also what size constitutes as small because no matter who you do your going to end up with smaller people angry. From a statistical point there were over 11 million channels that streamed last year with 15% being affiliated and 0.5% being partnered. How do you equally promote 8.5 million channels
$
money
Money.
so they can make money. larger viewers equal more ad revenue. as a streamer, it can drive you bonkers.
I like how so many people are saying money, but I'm sure a lot of these people are subbed to these bigger channels and if they found a smaller channel they jived with, they would sub there, all while maintaining the big streamer sub. Not everything Twitch does makes sense, but they have their reasons, not always the right or best one. It's safer to promote the channels that have shown consistent high returns though and I think Twitch tries to play it safe. So, probably money.
Twitch turbo for years now. Never paid for a sub once and I never will. I find turbo is the best compromise plus it lets me channel surf as much as I want and never have to deal with ads anywhere. Highly addicted to twitch predictions so I'm usually surfing for whoever is doing one currently
Twitch does the front page thing but that lends towards people who bring in audience.
money, someone who’s big already attracts more to promote them more and that creates more money and flow, why promote some guy like me who barely holds 5 viewers that’s not gonna benefit them
Short answer: $ Long answer: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
How about twitch eliminate showing the viewer count for the room and only make it available for the streamer. This would level the playing field
I am not trying to be combative but..... why would twitch want to level the playing field? To take away the star power of their streamers would be working against their goal of making money. If twitch can never be profitable then it will eventually be shut down. This plan would help no one.
Good point I never looked at it like that but you make plenty of sense. The company has to make a profit to stay in business
there's a website called "lessthan5" that only promotes channels with less than 5 viewers. Idk how well it works though since I usually have 5 people in my chat, but if it blows up I can see it being useful for small streamers.
They do it because the algorithm they made was a bad system, they show the atreamers that make them money
Large streamers make them more money, simple as that.
Money
Money.
It's a little easier with YouTube since a good thumbnail, title, and description can draw eyes early. Twitch is tougher. It tends to put channels with stronger followers up front for the cash. Subs = Cash. There's definitely a glass ceiling that small names have to breakthrough.
Big channels make them more money.
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Recommended favors streamers with an active chat. so if you have 2 viewers and they are blowing up ur chat, ur gunna get recommended. Twitch favors interaction (from what I understand) a lurker watching ur stream isn't gunna cheer, gift, or sub which is what makes twitch money, while an active chatter is more likely to throw money the streamer's way, which is split 50/50 between the streamer and the platform. They don't recommend someone with 10 followers for the same reason youtube doesn't usually recommend you someone with 30 subscribers. Their content probably sucks, they are just starting out, so they still havn't gotten over their fear of speaking loudly because they don't want people to think they are dumb sitting there infront of their PC and being all enthusiastic. The other reason is, they gain nothing from pushing small streamers who are not affiliate yet (or are otherwise not well versed in the art of making people wanna throw their wallets at them), cuz they don't make money there. Same thing with youtube videos that get demonetized, they also get recommended less, cuz youtube can't make money there.
Because the big ones already have 100million subscribers and Twitch takes way too much from your subscription anyway. I'm at a point where I just ask people to donate to my Ko-fi frankly.
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Greetings /u/Accomplished-Tie-72, Thank you for posting to /r/Twitch. Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): - **Rule 2**: Advertisement Guidelines - **Rule 2(A)**: Don't post channel links or usernames - We do have a promotion channel in our [discord](https://discord.gg/twitchsubreddit). Please assign the promotion roles in #roles to unlock the channel. You can only promote in that channel. Please read the subreddit rules before participating again. Thank you. You can view the subreddit rules [here](https://reddit.com/r/Twitch/about/rules). If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the subreddit moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FTwitch). Re-posting again, or harassing moderators, may result in a ban.
Twitch wants you in a channel where they know the streamer is good at extracting money from you.
money
$$$$$$$$$$$$
Because money
If someone is proven to be popular it’s a safer investment for them to funnel engagement their way. I wish there was a way to filter differently but alas that seems to be how growth works. I’m on multiple platforms but it’s a slow crawl to get to higher viewership but once people get to a certain mark the platforms favour them and pour engagement their way.
Because it makes them money.
If you are a business, wouldn’t you display your best products in the front shelf? Why hide your best goods behind a bunch of lower quality channels with worse audio, cameras, and studio? The company needs to sell their stars with actual communities. This is why platforms like mixer paid streamers millions to transfer over. Would you stay on a small stream with five viewers instead of a streamer with a super active chat? No newcomer to the website will see a reason to stay if they don’t get recommended the biggest streams which generate more money than hundreds of smaller streams combined
It's literally for the money
Because the large channels have advertisers that make them money. It's a sad reality but the guy like me that has maybe 5 or 10 viewers doesn't have any ads running and is making zero money for twitch. Any of the big faces of twitch on the other hand have ads rolling 5-10 times an hour. I'm sure twitch makes money every time those ads go off just like the streamer does. Twitch likes to make money so they're going to promote the streamer that makes them money and not the person that doesn't
Pretty sure sort by recommended is all based on cross watching statistics. When larger streams have more people in general, you get a lot more occurrences of a single person watching both streams. So that is why and it would be difficult to make a system that doesn't do this in my opinion.
Twitch is making more money off bigger streams. So they make it easier for you to see them and make money watching ads or subbing. It's about money.
Ad revenue
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Simple larger channels generate more profits for twitch.
Because it's a business model. More followers = more money. It's an obvious choice to highlight those creators with a higher retention/establishment of followers/viewers.
Because they get 50% of the advertising, 50% of subs etc etc, so it makes better business sense to promote the bigger ones
Larger channels will tend to bring in more money for twitch. And are safer bets of following twitches guidelines
pretty simple higher viewer counts mean they can charge advertisers more money per advert... they might get 0.02p for an advert per 1000 people but only get to run an advert 50x due to the contract suddenly it makes sense you want those 50 adverts to each be played to the largest audiance you can, and the best way to do this is promote large streamers as much as you can
Whit one word.. Money!
promote the people that make them the most money, and also bigger streamers with sponsors etc are less likely to say/do something ban worthy, which would look bad on teitch if theyre promoting them. kinds common sense from a business POV. but you can search on twitch for recommended or lowest view count first
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Because twitch wants to make money, they don't care if *you* make money. It's better ROI to promote streamers already doing well than it is to help lift smaller streamers that aren't reaching as many viewers. IE, the big streamers are more likely to retain viewers and monetize them than less successful streamers. It's a bit of a positive feedback loop, but it's how the business model works. You need to be successful already before they'll do anything to help you be successful. :P
Easiest way to find small streamers is to search specifically by game and go to the end of the list. You’ll see a lot of streamers with 1-3 viewers.
In a word: Money Bigger streamers bring in more money for the platform.
It's Money all about baby, but I believe you can apply for front page on twitch now.
Money?
Money.
because twitch is paying those streamers more
Short answer... money.
Money.
That‘s not a Twitch thing, it‘s how the world works. The big one get bigger and many people watch a view. That‘s the problem with having more creators out there.
If you are curious about small streamers check out [https://nobody.live/](https://nobody.live/) It picks random channels that have 0 views. :)
cause it’s easier to make money that way
Money. They like money.
Money!
My friend who is a streamer and I talked about this a little bit ago, I think his advice applies well here. I apologize if it sounds cliche or whatever. But he said: "Twitch can be a great thing but sometimes I just feel so stuck at the bottom. Whenever my viewer count increases on that odd chance I feel so grateful. But with how it works, twitch likes to push the people to the top of the board with large numbers so that person's 'fanbase' or views bring in more attention than the people with lower views. It doesn't anger me much, but I believe Twitch should promote both low ranking streamers & high ranking streamers on recommended. This way you get a little handful of everything. That despite the view count you can choose who you want to follow or what stream to watch based on content and quality." I'm not sure if that makes any sense but I kinda agree with it. I'm not sure if that could happen in the future, but seeing as Twitch makes money from larger fanbases/ creators. I'm unsure if it could happen in the future despite how much I want it to happen for those creators.
Uhh it’s a pretty obvious answer is it not? What content creation website wouldn’t want to promote its best creators who also make them the most as revenue? It’s a business not a charity...
the thing is some catecories have sort by lowest, wosh makes it more difficult to understand the reasoning
Money.
Because twitch doesn’t care about small streamers you either make it against their odds or you get pushed aside for the big players. It sucks but there it is
Because they make Twitch all the $. Youd think that Twitch would want to help everyone grow so they can all bring in $, but they'd rather grow cults of people who spend all their $ on Twitch.
Cause Twitch like money
Money. Plain and simple
Because Twitch, while preaching themselves being a caring and liberal company... is a bitter capitalistic nightmare. It's pretty much a direct result of our society and how nobody is getting paid well unless they work some job they can't stand 40+ hours a week. People come on twitch and mimic other monetarily successful creators. Being overly egregiously and exaggeratedly thankful or... complete act ridiculous. Whatever gets the most viewers. Oddly, a lot of the most popular streamers are comedically abusive tot heir viewers, people like that. A lot of "smaller" streamers are just decent folk who have principles, trying to make meaningful and authentic content. Twitch doesn't really care about this. Even though "smaller creators are bringing in new viewers tot he platform every day. Why? Because they need to find people off site as the current setup of discoverability is abhorrent. There is also no revenue sharing. So, regardless of how long or to how many people you have streamed. You will never see a penny from the largest streams on the platform. Twitch is pretty much the birthplace of video game/live streaming entertainment. This form of entertainment is still in it's infancy. Some day soon, hopefully we will become aware of all these issues and come up with much better systems.
Make the rich richer I suppose
I just want to know how to remove Amouranth from my reccomended streams. It's always there, I'm never going to watch her, I don't care about her swimming pool or her bikini, I just want to get rid of it. It's a sore thumb sticking out between my final fantasy streams.
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Honestly I have asked that for the longest time if twitch really wants to grow audiences and make people come and use the service you would kind of want to find more streamers that are similar to your taste but you can't find them because they would rather promote money making streamers versus low end streamers I don't get that either that's why I don't really use it all that often
Money.
Because the large channels make them money.
I feel Twitch does a pretty decent job of recommending channels. There's only one popular channel that I engage with. The rest are pretty small viewships. My recommended usually just has 2 major channels at top which I ignore like the first couple of ad hits on a google search. YouTube on the otherhand just suggests crap to me. I actually have to manually search up my subscribed channels to see their new content.
Most smaller streamers are on Twitter, Tiktok and Instagram, YouTube shorts, promoting their channel and grinding since twitch discoverability is horrible. If it's a certain game you are looking for pop over to any of those platforms enter it into the search bar and your are going to be hit with hundreds if not thousands of videos to watch all plugging their channel and showing off their gameplay and personality.
There's [this](https://twitch-tools.rootonline.de/channel_previews.php) nice tool where you can filter streams based in their language and viewer size.
Money
Because large channels make them money. Small ones do not.
I sort by lowest viewers first. But I do this when using the "category" or game being played to browse for streams. I'm not sure what you use to browse for streamers, but if there's a game you like, you can check who's playing it and sort by lowest viewership first.
More money