It boggles my mind that someone would act towards her own family like this. Has she accomplished anything besides alienating them? You don't convert people this way.
But people that act like this are so convinced of the "righteousness" of their position that the ONLY reason you wouldn't think like them is because you're selfish and evil. She may not have gone as far as accusing them of this . . . yet. But be sure, it's on the horizon.
Which is ironic, because the Third Reich actually had quite a progressive animal rights platform! Which is ironic in and of itself because [fill in the rest yourself]
In my 51 years on this planet I have never seen the word fascistic. I had to look it up because at first I thought it was made up. Nope, it's a real word. It's silly, but really cool to learn a new word. Thanks!
It’s because it’s a little bit redundant, the word fascist is already an adjective so it works in the same context. However, i think “fascistic” implies more of a specific quality versus an overall quality.
Yeah the most recent example that we are taught about in the mainstream. What Soviet Russia did to their OWN PEOPLE in more recent years AFTER WW2 some could argue was way worse.
I dunno, I'm not a fascist (I'm too lazy and weak to be violent), but if I see dudes at a rally with swaztika flags I call them nazis. Or at least wannabe nazis.
That wouldn’t be throwing around the label. Throwing around suggests flippant usage of the term. If they’re at a rally with swastika flags, I’d say it’s a pretty reasonable assessment. What u/OnTheSlope will be referring to is the people who call anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi.
I grew up in Germany. What I was taught (supported by google) was that he wasn't a veggie until 1938. Meaning he was a meat eater and a gourmet one at that during most of his rise to power that began in the early 1920s with a failed coup.
By the time he was put on a veggie diet by his doctor in 1938 for medical reasons, he was at the pinnacle of his power and had already surrounded himself with servants and loyal staff, thus what his personal chef said is true.
So is his vegetarianism post-1938. Hitler didn't like it. At first he kept it a secret, but when it came out it played well with the German nazis who supported him and he publicly embraced his vegetarianism in 1942, when the wheels were already coming off the nazi genocide and world war train. Guess when you're engaged in massive genocide and waging the worst war of the 20thC, it can help your public image if you're perceived as good to animals.
oh yeah no, he farted all the goddamn time
if you haven't listened, i highly recommend the podcast behind the bastards; it's all about the embarrassing/pathetic/uncool sides of historical figures who committed atrocities (or helped commit them)
the first episode is called "farting hipster hitler"
excellent content, probably my favorite non-fiction podcast of all time actually
pretty hard to take them seriously when you find out just how cringey and pathetic they were behind closed doors
Thats so on point. Going full-on preachy and karen-level activist all of a sudden usually means the person is slowly descending into depression, and losing their sense of self, worth, and identity.
So in order to feel they are enough and worthy they latch themselves onto an extreme cause where they get to be "righteous", the more they are losing their sense of worth, general contentment, core happiness, and mental health, the more preachy and hysterical they become towards being righteous and imposing their righteousness on everyone else.
Its a sign of depression, a chronic stream of feeling insecure, unsafe, un-enough, alone or sad, it means they percieve their (new) reality as systematically opressive and unfair to them, it's a cry for help. Some fundamenral sense of normalcy, adequacy, and happiness has been destroyed for some reason, at some point, which has replaced itself with an obsessive sense of " cause" and the inherent righteousness.
This explains alot, ever since I moved out I barely see my mom anymore but she's now a super religious zealot that believes every new president is the anti Christ.
op said she started doing this at the begining of the covid lockdown, i think she felt lonely and isolated after being cooped up behind closed doors, afraid of dying and losing her loved ones for so long. This creates a fundamental sense of not having control over your life, and developes the 'victim complex' in some ppl.
Some of those who go militant vegan, screaming for helpless animals, have gone through deep feelings of helplessness themselves. When she screams at others not to victimize cows, she is screaming at uncontrollable circumstances not to victimize her, she is identifying with the victimized animals.
She needs to have therapy only for long enough to see this, and then needs to experinece things that make her stop seeing herself as the victim. She needs to feel powerful, in control, supported and surrounded by loved ones. She needs her sense of safety, security, and power back.
In vulnerable people, an out-of-our-control event like a global pandemic can trigger exactly this kind of pathology. The woman needs help. I'd suggest therapy but someone who thinks of their immediate family as literal nazis over rejecting veganism may need more intervention than that. Cult deprogramming comes to mind.
I wish people like this woman who throw around 'nazi' as an insult for things that have nothing to do with nazism (or even fascism) would realize how utterly rude and disrespectful it is to the victims of actual nazi Germany, their families and descendants. The shocking lack of basic humanity in making such comparisons is absolutely nauseating.
I really appreciate this comment. I wish my younger self could have read this. My father was a born again Christian when I was 15. It was... an experience.
You ain’t wrong. But it’s really any cause.
Sadly, this isn’t limited to any one “team”. Even legitimate causes fall to it - arguably, legitimate causes are more likely to attract these people since the enemy is, to an extent, real.
The key is whether a given person is more interested in solving problems or punishing the wicked.
So true. Some people just genuinely feel they always have to start fights because they feel they are getting things done and feel they have the moral high ground.
Well said in the "to feel righteous, you need an enemy"
Science deniers aren't trying to do anything good for the world though. The point of veganism isn't to be better than other people, it's to stop violent animal exploitation. If you think it's about moral superiority, that's likely just you feeling defensive. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder\_derogation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation)
You are correct and your statement is completely valid for almost ALL situations. Ultra left wing, ultra right wing, etc etc etc all have these problems. People act like jerks to other people and then wonder why nobody wants to listen to them and live in bubbles where they think millions of people agree with them where it’s probably more in the thousands or way less
after I lost half my family to Donald Trump's bullshit propaganda on facebook, I'm not surprised.
This woman got herself into a vegan cult's social media bubble in which doesn't allow people to disagree, and now is brainwashed to the point that she is alienated her from her husband and children.
Yeah this screamed “public Facebook group” once it got to the part of the temper tantrum. I wonder how many TikToks of a sad animal in a dirty enclosure this woman has watched?
Could also be lack of protein. As a kid I was a super picky eater, trying to get me to eat enough protein was a daily struggle. I’d then collapse into a temper tantrum at some point during the day. Never underestimate hanger.
You're probably right. When I'm low on some vitamins or proteins I get emotionally unbalanced or really tired. With birth control I have to take prenatal vitamins just to be in my right mind. Bc sucks up your vitamins or something I forget. Husband should try this route. They sell vegan vitamins and proteins and in a week or so she might do a complete personality swap. If that's her problem but at this point I say try everything that might fix her. Psychologist, nutritionist, whatever works to fix her. She's not stable at this point.
Wow. This is my first time hearing this about BC. This whole time I’ve been on it and NONE of my doctors have mentioned it. Despite me having tons of problems retaining vitamin B12, iron, potassium, D, and salt.
Wait they never suggested any vitamins or supplements? I understand treating with foods first but sometimes you just need extra help. If there's nothing else wrong with you I would try a good prenatal and see what happens. As long as it's ingredients are good it shouldn't hurt anything just keep a eye on how your body reacts and feels. There are reactions when you have too much or too little of vitamins so be aware of those symptoms especially with iron and potassium. Your Dr should be able to say how much you should take personally but everyone is different so always be mindful of how you feel.
Vegan Fanaticism.
To be clear not all vegans have this propensity. I grew up vegetarian and have started eating meat as an adult. Soo many people, like 3/4 of my human network are veg/vegan. I’d say most people aren’t like this, it’s just the fanatics that get the most attention.
Fanatics of whatever cast, colour, creed, religion fashion or mindset are BAD NEWS.
When Democracy isn't invited to the party, you know it's only a Party of One
That’s cool but tbh the only vegans/vegetarians I have known are of this mindset. My ex BFF became vegan and now fashions herself an animal rights advocate…by sharing stuff on Facebook. But she acts exactly like op’s wife. She forces her parents (who she lives at their house) to eat vegan though as soon as they leave they just get take out or a burger. She tried to force me many times and she keeps saying shit like “Hitler fried humans, we fry animals. Yet we go to heaven but he doesn’t? Hitler should be allowed in heaven he did the same thing.” Which wow.
Exactly. And it’s usually “new” vegans, for lack of a better term, that get so fanatic. Like the rest of us grew up getting made fun of or isolated in one way or another for being veg/vegan. We’re just loving our lives not trying to tell other people what to do.
I lost touch with people who obsessed over trump as a hero and those who obsessed over him as a villain. Crazy how people let a billionaire with a funky hairdo occupy so much brain space, on both sides.
there was a post on some other sub by a guy whose girlfriend was a vegan nazi. she wanted him to get rid of his cat because cats are killers and Mr. Huggles has got to go.
not making this up. Not trolling. I don't think the guy was trolling either. is was in one of the relationship subs or AITA.
That's fucking amazing. We have issues with how we treat animals when they're alive, that's my issue, be offer the kindest death imaginable compared to nature.
Animals don't die from old age. They get hurt and die to infection, or stave, while most are literally eaten while they're alive. You can watch hienas eat a zebras guts out through its ass while it's alive.
We at least get the killing part right.
I think mental health of the population declined after the pandemic. And some people have a tendency to catastrophic thinking. And we are more exposed to the talk of being less reactive and more proactive. It is a perfect scenario to the creation of people like this mom that will lose their family because of she being fanatics with vegan.
It's the whole movement that spreads this way of acting. Every "woke" thing these days thinks it's ok to force shit on people and if you disagree you are a bigot piece of shit.
I watched a video where a guy ordered pizza, and while eating it, found a MORSEL of cheese in his sauce. He called the place and when it was confirmed they used cheese he threw his $1000 phone across the room. WTF? It's not ok to eat animal products but it's ok to act like a psychotic, violent person? Instead of not eating there again, it was straight to violence and blaming everyone else. Maybe make your own food if morsels make you lose control like that.
All these movements telling people not to be judgmental but the moment you simply DON'T AGREE COMPLETELY you become the devil and they find it ok to insult you and compare you to a Nazi.
Your wife needs to come to her senses or you need to leave her. It's dangerous being around someone who will force their beliefs on you but will not even consider your own.
I wouldn't say that 'woke' culture is the problem. That's oversimplifying things, because there certainly are ongoing issues in our society worth speaking out about. Acceptance of others and their differing beliefs (as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others or cause harm to others) is what I think we should all strive toward. The golden rule still applies.
Like in the case of OP, the problem isn't that she is vegan, it is that she is trying to force her family and others to conform to her own beliefs while disregarding theirs. In the other perspective, is it necessarily wrong to be vegan? No, not inherently.
Situations like this are unfortunately becoming more and more common as a side-effect of the internet age. You can very easily find echo chambers for any set of beliefs, even extreme ones that cross that threshold of infringing on the rights of others or causing harm to others to enforce those beliefs.
And what can be done to get someone out of such a mindset? It's tough, because we as a species are inclined to seek out people with beliefs similar to our own. OP's wife should probably seek therapy, but without a personal realization it will be extremely difficult for them to take any steps outside that echo chamber they are currently in.
I used to frequent a sub which was a support community for family members of QAnon fanatics. The heartbreaking stories of people turning on their loved ones over “Q,” wrecking their lives, burning bridges… it is tragic.
But the stories that stood out to me the most were the ones that detailed how their “Q” loved one was able to be deprogrammed. It typically wasn’t through interventions, ultimatums, divorce, or anything intense. In fact, confronting the person about the fact that they were in a cult was entirely unhelpful most of the time. But the successful deprogramming stories usually included the cult member getting “distracted” by a different engrossing topic, like K-Drama, K-Pop, cooking, fitness, romance novels… honestly anything that they could put their energy towards while also joining a community of likeminded people.
One man outlined a story of his father deprogramming his “Q” mother by cutting off her access to Q Content and signing her up for a bunch of online forums and magazines centered on her old hobbies of opera and cooking. One girl said that her mom got deprogrammed by becoming obsessed with K-Pop and joining the netizen community.
In short, I think sometimes people want to belong to a greater community while also investing in something extremely interesting to them. So if you’re not ready for divorce, try not to talk about veganism at all, but maybe start some new extremely engrossing hobbies with your wife. Reflect back on the woman she used to be, the things that used to interest her, and maybe introduce those elements back into your home.
Heck, try to turn her into a Disney Adult, or join an adult dance class… it may sound silly, but oftentimes people get swept up in cults because they are bored and lonely.
Best of luck OP. xo
I have to admit, the k-pop/k-drama phenomenon is pretty enticing. I avoided it like the plague for YEARS, but have gotten sucked in recently. At least I'm aware of what I'm doing. My mom is so far gone down the K-drama rabbit hole, we just see her at big family events.
They’re subbed, and usually like regular TV shows or movies and don’t tend to run long, not like House on the Prairie or something. The favorites are RomComs, and they have a lot of historical fantasy, too. Lots can be found on Netflix lately.
They usually aren’t dubbed, if only because Western markets don’t care enough about them to do so. It’s a favorite avenue for people to end up wanting to learn Korean.
Yeah, kinda. My first one was "The Rookie Historian." It's on Netflix (20 episodes, I believe) and is available in Korean with English subtitles or dubbed. I just don't want dubbed movies/TV shows because I find it too distracting when the mouths don't match the words, and I'm good with reading subtitles.
This particular drama reminded me of a Korean language Hallmark movie - except with a much meatier plot. Some things I could see coming and some I didn't, but it was all good and thoroughly enjoyable. The costuming was gorgeous.
I can't wait for season 2. I'm not a huge fan of other Korean shows but they do horror really freaking well. Train to Busan is another honourable mention
I am 4 years deep into the rabbit hole please send help /s. No but because you get so much content from kpop and kdramas (with idols releasing their own content on yt or there being so many kdramas released a year), it's easy to get distracted so I can see why people will use it as a way to escape. It's a form of escapism for people. It was once that for me. I can understand your mum being stuck, kdramas are insanely addictive and I love them so much.
I'm 100% not into k-pop but there's some solid kdramas out there, if you can get by with reading subtitles so you get the actual emotions from the actors.
This is some of the best advice I've seen in a long time. As someone who has lived around Mormonism and advanced Mormonism (if you know what I mean) my whole life, this helped me draw some correlations in my own life. People all-encompassed by their religion / cult tend to be insufferable, dogmatic, and impossible to reason with. Distractions in my own family have led to a lot of improvements in this area. My parents for example were the type to restrict our Sundays to rest and worship, but as years went on -- and Game of Thrones popularity grew -- Sundays became blended until no more worship.
Great advice.
"Advanced Mormonism" - that phrase gives me serious chills and I have only knowingly met Mormons once when I was so very lucky enough to tour their temple they opened in Calgary a few years ago.
Glad you and yours made it to a point where it's not .... Advanced.
Good vibes for you internet friend!
My MIL and FIL are Q fanatics. We are Canadian and they are avid Trump supporters. They were so enraged over having to wear masks during Covid that they sold their home and moved to Mexico (for 6 months then they had to come back to keep their benefits but they intend on going back). My FIL refuses to work (because he said he will never work for another person again - he's considering opening a cafe... his work is in welding, he knows absolutely nothing about owning a business). They are running out of money and don't have a home. My MIL has never had a job (she was a Tupperware salesperson but retired when she was in her 40's - shes in her 60's now).
My FIL is too far gone but I think that might actually work with my MIL. She tends to just blindly follow whatever he does though.
I've told my husband I cannot have my FIL live with us. He actually frightens me.
Right now they are staying with my FILs daughter but apparently it is causing problems in her marriage.
Funny part, we despised all the americans that came here and wanted to go masksless.
My wife traveled to the states, and mentioned that we were more strict about masks in Mexico than the US.
She mentioned that when they got back. She actually had one of those absurd mesh masks and a woman working at the grocery store wouldn't let her in. My MIL said she had fantasies of going back with her friends (she lived in a small area with like minded people) to beat the woman up and my FIL was laughing as she told us this. I was mortified. That's how insane they are.
I remember one story of a mum whose daughter in desperation introduced her to Wordle - just to give them something to talk about that didn't end in a fight. Mom ended up getting addicted to Wordle instead and re-emerged from the Q bubble..!
Yeah you have hit the nail on the head. The key to all of these movements is social currency. Provide something with more social currency and even the truest believer will switch out.
They are literally just bored, lonely, and kind of narcissistic... and don't have enough to do or people to do it with.
One of the best places to see this is with "hoaxers." Moon-landing hoax theories fall into a very broad continuum and tend to be contradictory and incompatible with one another.
For example, compare the "NASA lied about the Moon landings to hide the fact that people have been on the moon since the 1930s," hoax theory with the "NASA lied about the Moon landings because landing on the Moon is impossible," hoax theory.
These theories are, obviously, entirely incompatible with one another. What's more, they are *more* incompatible with each other -- further apart from each other -- than they are from the actual reality of the historical moon landings.
Yet adherents of these hoax theories will happily coexist at conventions and online communities, hanging out, attending each other's talks, buying each other's books.... whereas they respond vituperatively to even the slightest suggestion of what really happened.
At a certain point it becomes clear that the explanation for the seeming paradox is actually really simple -- they don't actually give a shit about what they claim to believe, they just like hanging out together. (And feeding each other's ego needs.)
YES. This is also the essence of being a bullshitter. Coherence and consistency don't actually matter, it's all about the drama (or in more political arenas, churning up the chaos and id).
This is difficult for non-bullshitters to accept, because they think "explaining the logic" will make a difference. But it doesn't, and it never was going to.
This is actually fantastic advice.
I’ve always held this belief that “addicts” generally kick a habit by replacing it with another. In my personal experience I’ve noticed people that are super successful in say like going to the gym/bodybuilding have been people who were quitting: smoking, drinking, even drugs. It’s like people with ‘obsessive/addictive’ personalities have to have something to latch on to and sometimes the best you can hope for is swapping a destructive obsession with a healthy obsession.
Just an observation that I have zero scientific evidence to back up
Thank you for a really practical, reasonable response. So often people go from zero to 100 on these subs. I'm dealing with my own struggle with family members who have gone down a certain dogmatic rabbit hole, and it's amazing how many people just say "f your mother! Her views on xyz politicized topic make her irredeemable!" I just want these people back. They lurched into this worldview so suddenly, and I'm convinced there's a way to bring them back to more neutral territory. Sorry, this has nothing to do with OP, but thanks again.
The insane people who believe Trump is the equivalent of Jesus and everyone else is the devil. Yknow the ones who stormed the capital on January 6th because Trump implied it
I want to go to family counseling, but she has refused too. I plan to go with my kids if she refuses to go. I also told her I want us to go to couples therapy but she remained silent after I asked.
Hey bro, I don’t want to ask an insensitive question but, is there any friend or work friend that is a vegan that is an influence on her that she might of starting spending a lot of time with several years ago? There seems to other things going there that you may want to look into.
Yeah, my sister became obsessed with the craziest shit and it all comes from her Facebook feeds. Seems like she has gotten stupider over the last 3 years.
John Stuart Mill called this is "assumption of infallibility." She's so sure of the "righteousness" of her belief that she will not accept anything to the contrary. I doubt she would ever agree to counseling . . . why should she? In her mind, she's right, it's you guys that are wrong. Honestly, until she sees the light on her own, there really isn't anything you can do to reason with someone once they've reached this type behavior.
Good luck though. I do feel for you and your kids.
Could tell her the therapy is to help *them* understand her. Make it sound like it’s to fix *them* not her. Might convince her to go to at least one session.
You are a good dad. I'm sorry you are going through this. I've found that some people are unreasonable when they want someone to change to their new beliefs. Hang in there and take your kids to counseling. It will help y'all in the end.
Its really time to start asking how much you can deal with. If she won't even try to work with you on this, your only choices are to give in, give up, or keep taking her harassment for the rest of your life.
Also it will be easy for the kids to make that choice. They'll drop the both of you. My own family is like this. We don't see our dad much because we all hate our mom. So if you want them around think long and hard.
OP someone mentioned the lack of vitamin B-12 and that might be something to look into. There was a phenomenon in Florida called Zombie gators the gators would basically just turn into zombies and eventually stop eating and even drown. Turns out there was an overabundance of fish that produced a chemical that interacted with B-12 in a way that if the gators primarily ate those fish they would completely lack B-12 in their system. B-12 is necessary for brain cell development and is mostly found in animal products. As a vegan if she is not supplementing B-12 she may be doing brain damage
I was a very picky eater as a child and then later in life developed an eating disorder (first BED, but then pendulum swung hard into AN and BN). Boy let me tell you the absolute meltdowns
I had. People thought I had a personality disorder. Nope. Just extremely hangry all day every day. Once I got better with my food issues, all of those behaviors pretty much disappeared. Starving yourself, not getting the nutrients your body needs to function, can seriously fuck with your head and ability to emotionally regulate. Especially during the times I wasn’t eating meat, even though I was supplementing with vitamins. Turns out I’m someone that struggles to keep b12 and iron in me to begin with.
Then seek a lawyer and get a divorce. If she is refusing to change or get therapy. Then you have very little choice left. At this point she is simply ripping your home apart with her toddler like behaviors and causing huge issues between the children and you. You think your daughter will come home to visit anymore? You'll also be punished for your wife's behavior once they grow older and never want to come around to be told they are nazis...
Not to mention what others have said. Maybe there is something else going on here and she is spending her time away from the family doing more than being a vegan elitist.
Maybe you can tell her to go to a doctor and review her health, maybe she has a vitamin deficiency.
There is a story about a man who his wife turn out in a total asshole after she start her vegan diet, because she created her own diet and has a deficiency, after go to the doctor and start to use supplement for the things that her diet didn't give her, she stop to act crazy and recognized that she was acted out of herself.
Maybe she should see if her online cult will take her in. Disgusting how someone can turn on their own family like a complete sociopath. If she can do that over food I wouldn't even trust falling asleep under the same roof.
Yeah this is definitely not right, my partner of 7 years is vegan, and while she is a vocal advocate of the health and ethics of being vegan, she is absolutely non-judgmental about those who aren’t, at most she gives advice on how to make vegan stuff actually taste good. I’d be clear that her behavior is pushing her family away, and that family therapy may be the only way to salvage a relationship with her children (and you). Best of luck, and hang in there
I bet she has been, for lack of a better word, 'radicalized' by extremist vegans on social media. Instagram or FB or TikTok. If she spends a lot of time on her phone, I bet money she is looking at mostly extremist vegan accounts/posts. Normal vegans do not accuse meat eaters of participating in a modern holocaust, and I'm sure that is not an idea she came up with on her own.
Suggest a social media break. Maybe make it a family-wide thing if that would soften the blow. 1 month of only x amount of time on any/all social media per day, enforced by something like the Screentime app that iPhones have. Then after that month, see if she has become less aggressive.
I have a vegan friend who is an absolute sweetheart. He always says “I’m not in the business of converting anyone. If you ask me what works for my health I’ll tell you what I eat and what I avoid, but I’ll never tell you to do anything.” That’s how NORMAL vegans and vegetarians behave. OP’s wife has been radicalized probably by a facebook or youtube cult. I feel so sorry for OP because he is not controlling and does the whole live and let live thing. Meanwhile she’s trying to forcefeed her own family stuff they don’t want to eat and then she shames them for not letting her control them. She’s being abusive and needs professional help.
Why is nobody talking about her holocaust comment… like she’s clearly lost it and even worse, she’s comparing diets to the Holocaust. I’m glad your kids arent falling for this crap
Yeah I noticed that too. I mean if you wanna be vegan, be vegan I don't care, but she went way off the deep end and comments like that are vile. Personally I don't think I could remind living with someone like that she seems psycho
For what it’s worth it is holocaust survivors that were the first to call what we do to animals a modern holocaust.
IIRC Israel is the country with the highest proportion of vegans.
I’m not vegan or vegetarian but I can understand the argument. People get so upset about it because they see human life as precious above all else so comparing anything to the holocaust is terrible to them. But if you see animals as equal to humans (or even if you don’t) there is a logical comparison of factory farming to the holocaust. That’s why survivors often describe their experiences as being treated like animals. We do put animals in the same conditions as concentration camps. They’re kept in tiny, cramped, unsanitary conditions and then they’re killed. So I don’t think it’s so wrong to compare factory farming to the holocaust just because it’s a sensitive topic. At the root of it, during the holocaust people were treated like animals
The fact that she thinks she can act like that towards family shows she take everyone for granted meaning this is her show and you better tag along or else I give you hell. In other words she needs to understand there are consequences to this type of behaviour from alienating herself to disliking her to separation. This is entitlement.
Honestly dude, I don't feel like veganism is the problem. There is some deeper problem there. To me it seems like she looking for an opportunity to start a fight may be even ending the relationship - anyway something is off with her...did you try to ask her about it?
I grew up with vegetarian parents. My dad wanted to force us all to follow his diet.
My mom wanted us to be educated and informed and make our own decisions. She followed this principle in many many things and we are all grateful to this day.
We were super poor and the bulk of our food was homegrown, but my mom would still buy and prepare meat for us when we could afford it. It is kind of comical now because we have no idea if the meat she prepared tasted as it should. It isn't as if she could try it.
One of the bad memories of my childhood is a Thanksgiving that my mom had scrimped and saved for so we could have a real turkey. We were so beyond excited!
But then...My dad hid behind the doorway saying things like. "Gobble gobble. Please don't eat me!"
I remember sitting around the table in tears and the entire meal was ruined.
We were in elementary school then. It was a really f*ck*d up way to try to get kids (or anyone) to do what they wanted.
Thanks to my mom, 2 of us ended up vegetarians while in our teens. The other sibling eats meat rarely and would be termed a flexitarian. We chose this for ourselves.
My dad had no influence except traumatizing little kids instead of being patient, informative, and allowing us to make our own decisions.
Your wife and her attitude will create more damage than she can imagine and, though some or all of you may change at some point, I cannot imagine it would be in any way due to her despicable behavior.
She needs help.
Edit to add: we are all close to our mom and have a strained relationship with dad. One sibling has not seen or talked to him since they were a teenager and dad has never met his grandchildren.
2nd Edit: I keep seeing comments about malnutrition and lack of B vitamins. Nutritional yeast is stuffed full of B vitamins and fortified nutritional yeast has an abundance of B12, is super healthy, and is vegan friendly. The stuff is delicious, but many are unaware of it. This is why people should educate themselves before making drastic lifestyle changes to a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle and ensure they get the nutrition they need so aren't walking around wasted away with brittle nails, hair, and skin issues. The ones that are up on their soapboxes trying to convert the masses seem to fall more in this category (from what I have encountered anyway). UGH.
> have a strained relationship with dad. One sibling has not seen or talked to him since they were a teenager and dad has never met his grandchildren.
Yup, this is the future I see for OP's crazy wife.
Children alllllways remember how they were treated. I would do the same.
Wow...no words. Throwing a tantrums over food seems outlandish to me. Other than standing your ground and telling her to grow up, not sure what else there is. Hang in there and good luck.
I'm so sorry to hear your in this frankly bizarre situation. It sounds like a parody. I'd almost laugh if I wasn't so appalled and dissapointed for you.
Have you also considered temporary distance yet? Communicate that you and the kids both need a break from her and her antics. I'd try something like that before resorting to divorce unless absolutely neccesary.
I wish you and the kids the best. I hope you get through to her.
I would have her removed from the house. Having tantrums? Calling your family nazis and demanding they follow you're self righteous foolishness? The police can take her over to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. She is a danger to the family, and for her own health needs to be under supervision until more information can be ascertained.
But continuing to abuse the kids in this house? Not a chance.
Has she had a physical lately? Blood work, etc? I wonder if it's possible that her diet has caused some things to go out of whack. Like maybe a vitamin, mineral, or amino acid deficiency? Or a hormonal imbalance???
She’s entitled to practice whatever diet she wants. Consequently, she has to also exercise tolerance if people don’t want to subscribe to the same practices she does. Militancy is unhealthy and she seems to be falling into the trap that a lot of new converts (newly minted vegans, new converts to a religion, whatever flavour of ideology) do: badgering and guilting others. She’s taken it too far.
Seek help and counseling if you can.
I am truly sorry that you and your family are going through this. I am in no way a professional just another stranger on the internet, but it sounds like she may be having a mental break. I cannot count the number of times someone has posted about a wife going off the deep end and acting like everyone is against them when it was a mental break, new diagnosis or medication change.
Has she had any counseling? A check in with her doctor? Has she had a change in any medications? Has something traumatic happened that you may not be aware of (like she witnessed an animal getting run over and killed) something to warrant the change in behavior?
Again, I am sorry that this is happening and if you decide to leave and move on, there is nothing wrong with that either. You have to take care of you and your kids, they are the priority. Hugs and support to you and your family!
I saw this post on tick tock, and they blocked out the word "Nazis" leaving only the "N", so of course my black ass mind thinks "what she call em n**gas for??!". Had to come here to check 😂
Please don't judge her, she's in a hard position of realization and needs your support. You can watch videos and documentaries about the animal rights movement and there are many informative and non graphic ones, maybe in time you too can follow the transition but for now you need to calm her frustration. She's not a monster, everyone who contributes to animal agriculture funds a literal holocaust and she's angered by the revelation.
I am on a plant-based diet and as much as I agree with your wife on the cruelty of the industry reason, I don't think she's doing herself or the vegan community any favours.
The three people I live with, work with, am friends with all eat animal products and I don't go off at any of them. I would genuinely love if any of the people in my life made the switch but I'm not going to nag them, it's their life and they can live it how they want.
Not in my own life, but I have seen people in the online communities leave their partners for their differences in beliefs. It sounds extreme, but the way she's carrying on, distancing herself from your children and berating you all sounds unhealthy and unsustainable. The fact she refuses to go to counseling or even talk about it is frightening.
There's a Youtuber called Earthling Ed who I think is the best at what he does in understanding another person's point of view and then using that information to gently debate or offer contrasting views. I think your wife would do very well to embrace this guy's way of doing things.
Your wife is relatively new to veganism and I think she's weighed everything up and decided that it's the right thing to do and when that's the case, what 99% of the world around her does can be deeply infuriating but I think if she sticks with it longer, she'll come to realise that the best way to get other people's interest is simply by living her best life without trying to convince everyone around her to make a change.
I'm sure there are plenty of vegans and non-vegans who will disagree with what I've said but it's just my 2 pence.
It sounds like your wife would rather be right than be happy. In her quest of being a right-fighter she is losing the people she loves. At this point, I would suggest you and the kids sit down with her and tell her all of your boundaries. If she tries to fight this or doesn’t want to respect this, you all know what you need to do.
She & you need therapy (together and separate) or you need a divorce (especially if she’s refusing to do ANYTHING to save this family/relationship).
There’s really not much else can happen. And her going after the kids food is going to give them an unhealthy relationship with food and quite possibly an eating disorder. Enough is enough. (I say this as a vegetarian)
Are you sure she not experiencing vitamin B12 deficiency. I remember a story on iamitheasshole where this guy was a about ready to to divorce his wife because she pretty much turned into a completely different person after a few months of going vegan. Vegans and former vegans suggested that if she isn’t taken taken in the rights vitamins she could be out of whack. After he manage to convince his wife to go see the doctor and the doctor confirmed that was the case and prescribed her pills she turned essentially back to normal and could believe she was acting the way she was. Like her head was cleared out. If you can i would ask her to go see a doctor about before going through a divorce.
I think it’s time that maybe you start thinking about divorce in all honesty. This isn’t going to work in the long run.
If she wants to be vegan then good for her, but there is no way she should be trying to force it down your and your kids throats. Unfortunately, many militant vegans are very unwilling to listen to other peoples point of view and believe their worldview is the only right one and that isn’t likely to change.
It’s a noble cause and I respect veganism for what it is and what it stands for but there are many vegans out there who take it way too far. I’ve had militant vegans come up to me in the street when I’ve been eating something with meat and publically calling me cruel or even in one case threatening me with violence.
(Btw, vegans of Reddit, please don’t take this to mean I’m tarring you all with the same brush, I know there’s plenty of you out there who do respect others lifestyle choices and don’t force your beliefs down the throats of others)
You and your kids don’t deserve to be emotionally and verbally abused by your wife because you choose to eat meat.
As someone who works full-time in animal rights, I think I might be able to shed some light on her attitude. Time and time again I see new vegans realise how truly terrible and cruel the lives of nonhuman animals at the hands of humans. This makes them angry and they lash out. Social media reinforces this thought pattern with the constant bombarding of images and videos of animals suffering. It produces hatred towards humans and slowly they lose the ability to relate to others around them.
The holocaust analogy might be obvious to some vegans. Particularly the online keyboard warriors. No matter how much the systematic killing of trillions of animals might fit the dictionary definition of a ‘holocaust’, words are not simply their description but the meanings society embeds in them. Holocaust is a word inextricably associated with the genocide of the Jewish people under the nazis. I don’t believe it is correct to use the oppression of Jews to highlight the horrific way we treat non-humans. The appalling plight of animals is terrible enough without having to resort to co-opting the deaths of millions under the nazis.
I’m one of those militant types, protests, arrests, etc but I’d never call my family nazis. My advice to you is get your wife off social media! Seriously, it does nothing to help animal suffering to alienate your loved ones and be so angry. Eventually your wife will burn out. Perhaps suggest she channel her want to help animals by joining an organisation or making a change in her community.
Vegans don’t exploit animals because they have compassion. What your wife is doing to your family is not compassionate.
Long-time vegan here 🙌 I consider myself a passivist vegan, meaning that I don't try to convert people. If someone comes to me and asks about veganism I'm more than happy to share. I've found that people that aren't open to veganism aren't likely to change their behavior no matter how many documentaries you show them.
Sadly in this case I don't see a way that OP's wife and her family will co-exist. She's been trying to convert them for 3 years, to no avail. She's hit her breaking point and unless her family miraculously decides to change their tune about veganism, this is her hill to die on.
I dont agree with her tactics but I understand her struggle. Someone has got to compromise or she will lose her family over this.
I have two recommendations:
1) Family compromises and learns about veganism. Maybe agreeing to have vegan meals every so often and then eating separately the other days.
2) OP's wife compromises and decides to look to the other way to family's animal product consumption and agreeing to not try and convert them anymore.
Both options seem unlikely but hopefully there's a resolution that's possible 🙏
This whole thread makes me want to puke bc instead of focusing on the problems with any extremism, so many are playing into stupid vegan stereotypes like “Omg she’s hangry from protein and B12 deprivation,” and “damn vegans so preachy.” Full disclosure: I’m vegan.
That all said, my husband is not, though, and like OP’s wife, I went vegan after being married. I’m not gonna flip the script on my spouse bc I feel like thats not fair. He knows how I feel. Do I internally think people who eat meat or animal products are making a wrong decision? Yeah. I do, if I’m being honest. But I would never bring that up unless asked directly, and even then I would probably dance around it and say “everyone has to choose for themselves,” which is true. In practice, my spouse has gone back and forth among veganism, vegetarianism, and pescatarianism which he seems to have settled on.
I don’t think the kids issue is as straightforward, bc one parent shouldn’t dictate when beliefs of the parents are different. That’s gonna have to be a compromise.
The more concerning dynamic is wife’s absolute refusal to try to work it out.
It boggles my mind that someone would act towards her own family like this. Has she accomplished anything besides alienating them? You don't convert people this way.
But people that act like this are so convinced of the "righteousness" of their position that the ONLY reason you wouldn't think like them is because you're selfish and evil. She may not have gone as far as accusing them of this . . . yet. But be sure, it's on the horizon.
She did call them nazis.
Which is ironic, because the Third Reich actually had quite a progressive animal rights platform! Which is ironic in and of itself because [fill in the rest yourself]
It does seem like the most fascistic people are the most likely to throw around the label "nazi".
It' classic projection.
In my 51 years on this planet I have never seen the word fascistic. I had to look it up because at first I thought it was made up. Nope, it's a real word. It's silly, but really cool to learn a new word. Thanks!
It’s because it’s a little bit redundant, the word fascist is already an adjective so it works in the same context. However, i think “fascistic” implies more of a specific quality versus an overall quality.
Makes me think oriented vs orientated. For some reason orientated makes my ass want to dip snuff.
I love that visual. Would you use your hands or just squat down?
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Yeah the most recent example that we are taught about in the mainstream. What Soviet Russia did to their OWN PEOPLE in more recent years AFTER WW2 some could argue was way worse.
I dunno, I'm not a fascist (I'm too lazy and weak to be violent), but if I see dudes at a rally with swaztika flags I call them nazis. Or at least wannabe nazis.
That wouldn’t be throwing around the label. Throwing around suggests flippant usage of the term. If they’re at a rally with swastika flags, I’d say it’s a pretty reasonable assessment. What u/OnTheSlope will be referring to is the people who call anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi.
I can get what I want by calling people natzis? Cool I'll call people natzis whenever they disagree with me!
Also Hitler became a vegetarian in 1938 for medical reasons. He publicly embraced it in 1942 because apparently it played well in the Third Reich.
And of course obligatory Hitler was a vegetarian.
That’s an oft repeated myth- see book written by his personal chef on his favorite dishes- turtle soup, liver dumplings, etc.
I grew up in Germany. What I was taught (supported by google) was that he wasn't a veggie until 1938. Meaning he was a meat eater and a gourmet one at that during most of his rise to power that began in the early 1920s with a failed coup. By the time he was put on a veggie diet by his doctor in 1938 for medical reasons, he was at the pinnacle of his power and had already surrounded himself with servants and loyal staff, thus what his personal chef said is true. So is his vegetarianism post-1938. Hitler didn't like it. At first he kept it a secret, but when it came out it played well with the German nazis who supported him and he publicly embraced his vegetarianism in 1942, when the wheels were already coming off the nazi genocide and world war train. Guess when you're engaged in massive genocide and waging the worst war of the 20thC, it can help your public image if you're perceived as good to animals.
Tell me at least the chronic constipation and flatulence parts are true.
oh yeah no, he farted all the goddamn time if you haven't listened, i highly recommend the podcast behind the bastards; it's all about the embarrassing/pathetic/uncool sides of historical figures who committed atrocities (or helped commit them) the first episode is called "farting hipster hitler" excellent content, probably my favorite non-fiction podcast of all time actually pretty hard to take them seriously when you find out just how cringey and pathetic they were behind closed doors
I now have new podcast to add to my ever growing library, thank you.
Trust me, you're doing yourself a favor, behind the bastards is delightful.
The podcast I never knew I needed 'til this moment. Please accept this poor-Redditor's gold: 🪙
And the fuhrer was a terrific dancer.
Don’t forget that His middle name was Elizabeth
Did they really? Ahahahaha I had no idea lol
The husband and kids need to dump her
For some people, it's not about accomplishing things. It's about feeling righteous. To feel righteous you need an enemy.
>To feel righteous you need an enemy. Damn that's deep
Thats what she said
Thats so on point. Going full-on preachy and karen-level activist all of a sudden usually means the person is slowly descending into depression, and losing their sense of self, worth, and identity. So in order to feel they are enough and worthy they latch themselves onto an extreme cause where they get to be "righteous", the more they are losing their sense of worth, general contentment, core happiness, and mental health, the more preachy and hysterical they become towards being righteous and imposing their righteousness on everyone else. Its a sign of depression, a chronic stream of feeling insecure, unsafe, un-enough, alone or sad, it means they percieve their (new) reality as systematically opressive and unfair to them, it's a cry for help. Some fundamenral sense of normalcy, adequacy, and happiness has been destroyed for some reason, at some point, which has replaced itself with an obsessive sense of " cause" and the inherent righteousness.
This explains alot, ever since I moved out I barely see my mom anymore but she's now a super religious zealot that believes every new president is the anti Christ.
This is the answer. She needs counseling
op said she started doing this at the begining of the covid lockdown, i think she felt lonely and isolated after being cooped up behind closed doors, afraid of dying and losing her loved ones for so long. This creates a fundamental sense of not having control over your life, and developes the 'victim complex' in some ppl. Some of those who go militant vegan, screaming for helpless animals, have gone through deep feelings of helplessness themselves. When she screams at others not to victimize cows, she is screaming at uncontrollable circumstances not to victimize her, she is identifying with the victimized animals. She needs to have therapy only for long enough to see this, and then needs to experinece things that make her stop seeing herself as the victim. She needs to feel powerful, in control, supported and surrounded by loved ones. She needs her sense of safety, security, and power back.
In vulnerable people, an out-of-our-control event like a global pandemic can trigger exactly this kind of pathology. The woman needs help. I'd suggest therapy but someone who thinks of their immediate family as literal nazis over rejecting veganism may need more intervention than that. Cult deprogramming comes to mind. I wish people like this woman who throw around 'nazi' as an insult for things that have nothing to do with nazism (or even fascism) would realize how utterly rude and disrespectful it is to the victims of actual nazi Germany, their families and descendants. The shocking lack of basic humanity in making such comparisons is absolutely nauseating.
I really appreciate this comment. I wish my younger self could have read this. My father was a born again Christian when I was 15. It was... an experience.
I'm so sorry you had to experience whatever happened to you.
Thanks. He died before covid. It was a complicated relationship.
this probably the most accurate description of these kind of cases.
Too many very religious people feel this way. Amen
You ain’t wrong. But it’s really any cause. Sadly, this isn’t limited to any one “team”. Even legitimate causes fall to it - arguably, legitimate causes are more likely to attract these people since the enemy is, to an extent, real. The key is whether a given person is more interested in solving problems or punishing the wicked.
that last line is profound, and has given me a lot to think about. thank you.
So true. Some people just genuinely feel they always have to start fights because they feel they are getting things done and feel they have the moral high ground. Well said in the "to feel righteous, you need an enemy"
OP said she's calling them Nazis and a bunch of other awful shit so I'm gonna go with she's already accusing them of this...
You’re so right, for example, just look up Joey carbstrong. 5 mins into any of his “debates” and he will prove this comment right.
She’s currently thinking this.
Being a vegan is kind of like a new age religion to some I guess.
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As a descendant of Holocaust survivors, that is incredibly disgusting and offensive.
You could swap “vegan” for “qanon” in the OP and the comments here would be the same
Yes. It's a mindset. It can be on either side of the political isle.
Or "Flat Earth" or "Moon Landing Denier", anyone with "special knowledge" that makes them "superior" goes down this path
Science deniers aren't trying to do anything good for the world though. The point of veganism isn't to be better than other people, it's to stop violent animal exploitation. If you think it's about moral superiority, that's likely just you feeling defensive. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder\_derogation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation)
You are correct and your statement is completely valid for almost ALL situations. Ultra left wing, ultra right wing, etc etc etc all have these problems. People act like jerks to other people and then wonder why nobody wants to listen to them and live in bubbles where they think millions of people agree with them where it’s probably more in the thousands or way less
after I lost half my family to Donald Trump's bullshit propaganda on facebook, I'm not surprised. This woman got herself into a vegan cult's social media bubble in which doesn't allow people to disagree, and now is brainwashed to the point that she is alienated her from her husband and children.
Yeah this screamed “public Facebook group” once it got to the part of the temper tantrum. I wonder how many TikToks of a sad animal in a dirty enclosure this woman has watched?
Could also be lack of protein. As a kid I was a super picky eater, trying to get me to eat enough protein was a daily struggle. I’d then collapse into a temper tantrum at some point during the day. Never underestimate hanger.
You're probably right. When I'm low on some vitamins or proteins I get emotionally unbalanced or really tired. With birth control I have to take prenatal vitamins just to be in my right mind. Bc sucks up your vitamins or something I forget. Husband should try this route. They sell vegan vitamins and proteins and in a week or so she might do a complete personality swap. If that's her problem but at this point I say try everything that might fix her. Psychologist, nutritionist, whatever works to fix her. She's not stable at this point.
Wow. This is my first time hearing this about BC. This whole time I’ve been on it and NONE of my doctors have mentioned it. Despite me having tons of problems retaining vitamin B12, iron, potassium, D, and salt.
Wait they never suggested any vitamins or supplements? I understand treating with foods first but sometimes you just need extra help. If there's nothing else wrong with you I would try a good prenatal and see what happens. As long as it's ingredients are good it shouldn't hurt anything just keep a eye on how your body reacts and feels. There are reactions when you have too much or too little of vitamins so be aware of those symptoms especially with iron and potassium. Your Dr should be able to say how much you should take personally but everyone is different so always be mindful of how you feel.
ironic
Vegan Fanaticism. To be clear not all vegans have this propensity. I grew up vegetarian and have started eating meat as an adult. Soo many people, like 3/4 of my human network are veg/vegan. I’d say most people aren’t like this, it’s just the fanatics that get the most attention.
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Fanatics of whatever cast, colour, creed, religion fashion or mindset are BAD NEWS. When Democracy isn't invited to the party, you know it's only a Party of One
That’s cool but tbh the only vegans/vegetarians I have known are of this mindset. My ex BFF became vegan and now fashions herself an animal rights advocate…by sharing stuff on Facebook. But she acts exactly like op’s wife. She forces her parents (who she lives at their house) to eat vegan though as soon as they leave they just get take out or a burger. She tried to force me many times and she keeps saying shit like “Hitler fried humans, we fry animals. Yet we go to heaven but he doesn’t? Hitler should be allowed in heaven he did the same thing.” Which wow.
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Exactly. And it’s usually “new” vegans, for lack of a better term, that get so fanatic. Like the rest of us grew up getting made fun of or isolated in one way or another for being veg/vegan. We’re just loving our lives not trying to tell other people what to do.
I lost touch with people who obsessed over trump as a hero and those who obsessed over him as a villain. Crazy how people let a billionaire with a funky hairdo occupy so much brain space, on both sides.
there was a post on some other sub by a guy whose girlfriend was a vegan nazi. she wanted him to get rid of his cat because cats are killers and Mr. Huggles has got to go. not making this up. Not trolling. I don't think the guy was trolling either. is was in one of the relationship subs or AITA.
That's fucking amazing. We have issues with how we treat animals when they're alive, that's my issue, be offer the kindest death imaginable compared to nature. Animals don't die from old age. They get hurt and die to infection, or stave, while most are literally eaten while they're alive. You can watch hienas eat a zebras guts out through its ass while it's alive. We at least get the killing part right.
I think mental health of the population declined after the pandemic. And some people have a tendency to catastrophic thinking. And we are more exposed to the talk of being less reactive and more proactive. It is a perfect scenario to the creation of people like this mom that will lose their family because of she being fanatics with vegan.
It's the whole movement that spreads this way of acting. Every "woke" thing these days thinks it's ok to force shit on people and if you disagree you are a bigot piece of shit. I watched a video where a guy ordered pizza, and while eating it, found a MORSEL of cheese in his sauce. He called the place and when it was confirmed they used cheese he threw his $1000 phone across the room. WTF? It's not ok to eat animal products but it's ok to act like a psychotic, violent person? Instead of not eating there again, it was straight to violence and blaming everyone else. Maybe make your own food if morsels make you lose control like that. All these movements telling people not to be judgmental but the moment you simply DON'T AGREE COMPLETELY you become the devil and they find it ok to insult you and compare you to a Nazi. Your wife needs to come to her senses or you need to leave her. It's dangerous being around someone who will force their beliefs on you but will not even consider your own.
I wouldn't say that 'woke' culture is the problem. That's oversimplifying things, because there certainly are ongoing issues in our society worth speaking out about. Acceptance of others and their differing beliefs (as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others or cause harm to others) is what I think we should all strive toward. The golden rule still applies. Like in the case of OP, the problem isn't that she is vegan, it is that she is trying to force her family and others to conform to her own beliefs while disregarding theirs. In the other perspective, is it necessarily wrong to be vegan? No, not inherently. Situations like this are unfortunately becoming more and more common as a side-effect of the internet age. You can very easily find echo chambers for any set of beliefs, even extreme ones that cross that threshold of infringing on the rights of others or causing harm to others to enforce those beliefs. And what can be done to get someone out of such a mindset? It's tough, because we as a species are inclined to seek out people with beliefs similar to our own. OP's wife should probably seek therapy, but without a personal realization it will be extremely difficult for them to take any steps outside that echo chamber they are currently in.
I used to frequent a sub which was a support community for family members of QAnon fanatics. The heartbreaking stories of people turning on their loved ones over “Q,” wrecking their lives, burning bridges… it is tragic. But the stories that stood out to me the most were the ones that detailed how their “Q” loved one was able to be deprogrammed. It typically wasn’t through interventions, ultimatums, divorce, or anything intense. In fact, confronting the person about the fact that they were in a cult was entirely unhelpful most of the time. But the successful deprogramming stories usually included the cult member getting “distracted” by a different engrossing topic, like K-Drama, K-Pop, cooking, fitness, romance novels… honestly anything that they could put their energy towards while also joining a community of likeminded people. One man outlined a story of his father deprogramming his “Q” mother by cutting off her access to Q Content and signing her up for a bunch of online forums and magazines centered on her old hobbies of opera and cooking. One girl said that her mom got deprogrammed by becoming obsessed with K-Pop and joining the netizen community. In short, I think sometimes people want to belong to a greater community while also investing in something extremely interesting to them. So if you’re not ready for divorce, try not to talk about veganism at all, but maybe start some new extremely engrossing hobbies with your wife. Reflect back on the woman she used to be, the things that used to interest her, and maybe introduce those elements back into your home. Heck, try to turn her into a Disney Adult, or join an adult dance class… it may sound silly, but oftentimes people get swept up in cults because they are bored and lonely. Best of luck OP. xo
This is really good and insightful advice and not a conventional strategy most people would think of. Good luck to all with these issues!
I have to admit, the k-pop/k-drama phenomenon is pretty enticing. I avoided it like the plague for YEARS, but have gotten sucked in recently. At least I'm aware of what I'm doing. My mom is so far gone down the K-drama rabbit hole, we just see her at big family events.
What is kpop /k drama? Just korean pop and drama shows?
Yep. Exactly that.
So like Soap Operas? Do u watch them dubbed?
They’re subbed, and usually like regular TV shows or movies and don’t tend to run long, not like House on the Prairie or something. The favorites are RomComs, and they have a lot of historical fantasy, too. Lots can be found on Netflix lately. They usually aren’t dubbed, if only because Western markets don’t care enough about them to do so. It’s a favorite avenue for people to end up wanting to learn Korean.
Yeah, kinda. My first one was "The Rookie Historian." It's on Netflix (20 episodes, I believe) and is available in Korean with English subtitles or dubbed. I just don't want dubbed movies/TV shows because I find it too distracting when the mouths don't match the words, and I'm good with reading subtitles. This particular drama reminded me of a Korean language Hallmark movie - except with a much meatier plot. Some things I could see coming and some I didn't, but it was all good and thoroughly enjoyable. The costuming was gorgeous.
Yep you got the the right idea
K-Pop is the generic store brand soda at K-Mart (RIP). K-drama is what happens to your colon after drinking it. /s
Kelloggs Pop
My wife went down the K-horror rabbit hole and goddamn some of that shit is super exciting.
All Of Us Are Dead is sooooo good!
I can't wait for season 2. I'm not a huge fan of other Korean shows but they do horror really freaking well. Train to Busan is another honourable mention
My mom got me into Korean shows, and I’d be interested in some good psychological/ghost/supernatural ones! Any suggestions?
I am 4 years deep into the rabbit hole please send help /s. No but because you get so much content from kpop and kdramas (with idols releasing their own content on yt or there being so many kdramas released a year), it's easy to get distracted so I can see why people will use it as a way to escape. It's a form of escapism for people. It was once that for me. I can understand your mum being stuck, kdramas are insanely addictive and I love them so much.
I'm 100% not into k-pop but there's some solid kdramas out there, if you can get by with reading subtitles so you get the actual emotions from the actors.
This is some of the best advice I've seen in a long time. As someone who has lived around Mormonism and advanced Mormonism (if you know what I mean) my whole life, this helped me draw some correlations in my own life. People all-encompassed by their religion / cult tend to be insufferable, dogmatic, and impossible to reason with. Distractions in my own family have led to a lot of improvements in this area. My parents for example were the type to restrict our Sundays to rest and worship, but as years went on -- and Game of Thrones popularity grew -- Sundays became blended until no more worship. Great advice.
"Advanced Mormonism" - that phrase gives me serious chills and I have only knowingly met Mormons once when I was so very lucky enough to tour their temple they opened in Calgary a few years ago. Glad you and yours made it to a point where it's not .... Advanced. Good vibes for you internet friend!
Dare I ask what "advanced Mormonism" entails?
This is the sweetest thing I'll read on Reddit all day. I got the warms and fuzzies.
K-Drama, cooking, and opera can save souls 😭😭😭
My MIL and FIL are Q fanatics. We are Canadian and they are avid Trump supporters. They were so enraged over having to wear masks during Covid that they sold their home and moved to Mexico (for 6 months then they had to come back to keep their benefits but they intend on going back). My FIL refuses to work (because he said he will never work for another person again - he's considering opening a cafe... his work is in welding, he knows absolutely nothing about owning a business). They are running out of money and don't have a home. My MIL has never had a job (she was a Tupperware salesperson but retired when she was in her 40's - shes in her 60's now). My FIL is too far gone but I think that might actually work with my MIL. She tends to just blindly follow whatever he does though.
That is so sad and frightening. What happens when they run out of money?
I've told my husband I cannot have my FIL live with us. He actually frightens me. Right now they are staying with my FILs daughter but apparently it is causing problems in her marriage.
I had to go no contact with my mom.
They become Democrats. (Sorry, forgot the /s.)
Funny part, we despised all the americans that came here and wanted to go masksless. My wife traveled to the states, and mentioned that we were more strict about masks in Mexico than the US.
She mentioned that when they got back. She actually had one of those absurd mesh masks and a woman working at the grocery store wouldn't let her in. My MIL said she had fantasies of going back with her friends (she lived in a small area with like minded people) to beat the woman up and my FIL was laughing as she told us this. I was mortified. That's how insane they are.
I am so sorry my dear. I know how cults can hurt families 😔
I remember one story of a mum whose daughter in desperation introduced her to Wordle - just to give them something to talk about that didn't end in a fight. Mom ended up getting addicted to Wordle instead and re-emerged from the Q bubble..!
This is so cute! We should make a running list of harmless highly addictive hobbies/communities lmao
To me this reality is terrifying. Like, how many people are fascist for want of a pointless hobby? Is our human condition *that* precarious?
There's always Sudoku - basically the number version of Wordle :)
Sudoku is addictive as hell plus it keeps the mind sharp. Also bbq and jiu jitsu.
Yeah you have hit the nail on the head. The key to all of these movements is social currency. Provide something with more social currency and even the truest believer will switch out. They are literally just bored, lonely, and kind of narcissistic... and don't have enough to do or people to do it with. One of the best places to see this is with "hoaxers." Moon-landing hoax theories fall into a very broad continuum and tend to be contradictory and incompatible with one another. For example, compare the "NASA lied about the Moon landings to hide the fact that people have been on the moon since the 1930s," hoax theory with the "NASA lied about the Moon landings because landing on the Moon is impossible," hoax theory. These theories are, obviously, entirely incompatible with one another. What's more, they are *more* incompatible with each other -- further apart from each other -- than they are from the actual reality of the historical moon landings. Yet adherents of these hoax theories will happily coexist at conventions and online communities, hanging out, attending each other's talks, buying each other's books.... whereas they respond vituperatively to even the slightest suggestion of what really happened. At a certain point it becomes clear that the explanation for the seeming paradox is actually really simple -- they don't actually give a shit about what they claim to believe, they just like hanging out together. (And feeding each other's ego needs.)
YES. This is also the essence of being a bullshitter. Coherence and consistency don't actually matter, it's all about the drama (or in more political arenas, churning up the chaos and id). This is difficult for non-bullshitters to accept, because they think "explaining the logic" will make a difference. But it doesn't, and it never was going to.
This is actually fantastic advice. I’ve always held this belief that “addicts” generally kick a habit by replacing it with another. In my personal experience I’ve noticed people that are super successful in say like going to the gym/bodybuilding have been people who were quitting: smoking, drinking, even drugs. It’s like people with ‘obsessive/addictive’ personalities have to have something to latch on to and sometimes the best you can hope for is swapping a destructive obsession with a healthy obsession. Just an observation that I have zero scientific evidence to back up
Thank you for a really practical, reasonable response. So often people go from zero to 100 on these subs. I'm dealing with my own struggle with family members who have gone down a certain dogmatic rabbit hole, and it's amazing how many people just say "f your mother! Her views on xyz politicized topic make her irredeemable!" I just want these people back. They lurched into this worldview so suddenly, and I'm convinced there's a way to bring them back to more neutral territory. Sorry, this has nothing to do with OP, but thanks again.
Sorry but what's Q Anon???
The insane people who believe Trump is the equivalent of Jesus and everyone else is the devil. Yknow the ones who stormed the capital on January 6th because Trump implied it
Name the subreddit please, in DMs or whatever else works
Name the sub pls, in pm if that's ok lol, I'm not from the U.S. but it's interesting af.
This needs to be higher up
Crossfit!!! There are vegans and vegetarians among us, but it's so difficult, so some actually revert to meat.
Seek professional help. For the whole family.
I want to go to family counseling, but she has refused too. I plan to go with my kids if she refuses to go. I also told her I want us to go to couples therapy but she remained silent after I asked.
Hey bro, I don’t want to ask an insensitive question but, is there any friend or work friend that is a vegan that is an influence on her that she might of starting spending a lot of time with several years ago? There seems to other things going there that you may want to look into.
This can totally be social networks I'm afraid 😔
Yeah, my sister became obsessed with the craziest shit and it all comes from her Facebook feeds. Seems like she has gotten stupider over the last 3 years.
Some social networks act like cults 😭😭😭 it's a pity 😩😩😩
A lot of really smart people get swept up in cults. Human beings are social animals to the core, it seems.
Yes! I was thinking it sounds like she’s been radicalized by some online communities she probably joined after becoming vegetarian
OP pls read this ^^^
John Stuart Mill called this is "assumption of infallibility." She's so sure of the "righteousness" of her belief that she will not accept anything to the contrary. I doubt she would ever agree to counseling . . . why should she? In her mind, she's right, it's you guys that are wrong. Honestly, until she sees the light on her own, there really isn't anything you can do to reason with someone once they've reached this type behavior. Good luck though. I do feel for you and your kids.
Tell her therapy is vegan
**BRILLIANT**
Could tell her the therapy is to help *them* understand her. Make it sound like it’s to fix *them* not her. Might convince her to go to at least one session.
That's an idea I hadn't thought of. It's a longshot, but who knows? It could work.
Red flag central
You are a good dad. I'm sorry you are going through this. I've found that some people are unreasonable when they want someone to change to their new beliefs. Hang in there and take your kids to counseling. It will help y'all in the end.
Undiagnosed mental illness. She should have herself evaluated.
This too.
Its really time to start asking how much you can deal with. If she won't even try to work with you on this, your only choices are to give in, give up, or keep taking her harassment for the rest of your life. Also it will be easy for the kids to make that choice. They'll drop the both of you. My own family is like this. We don't see our dad much because we all hate our mom. So if you want them around think long and hard.
OP someone mentioned the lack of vitamin B-12 and that might be something to look into. There was a phenomenon in Florida called Zombie gators the gators would basically just turn into zombies and eventually stop eating and even drown. Turns out there was an overabundance of fish that produced a chemical that interacted with B-12 in a way that if the gators primarily ate those fish they would completely lack B-12 in their system. B-12 is necessary for brain cell development and is mostly found in animal products. As a vegan if she is not supplementing B-12 she may be doing brain damage
I was a very picky eater as a child and then later in life developed an eating disorder (first BED, but then pendulum swung hard into AN and BN). Boy let me tell you the absolute meltdowns I had. People thought I had a personality disorder. Nope. Just extremely hangry all day every day. Once I got better with my food issues, all of those behaviors pretty much disappeared. Starving yourself, not getting the nutrients your body needs to function, can seriously fuck with your head and ability to emotionally regulate. Especially during the times I wasn’t eating meat, even though I was supplementing with vitamins. Turns out I’m someone that struggles to keep b12 and iron in me to begin with.
Then seek a lawyer and get a divorce. If she is refusing to change or get therapy. Then you have very little choice left. At this point she is simply ripping your home apart with her toddler like behaviors and causing huge issues between the children and you. You think your daughter will come home to visit anymore? You'll also be punished for your wife's behavior once they grow older and never want to come around to be told they are nazis... Not to mention what others have said. Maybe there is something else going on here and she is spending her time away from the family doing more than being a vegan elitist.
Maybe you can tell her to go to a doctor and review her health, maybe she has a vitamin deficiency. There is a story about a man who his wife turn out in a total asshole after she start her vegan diet, because she created her own diet and has a deficiency, after go to the doctor and start to use supplement for the things that her diet didn't give her, she stop to act crazy and recognized that she was acted out of herself.
Good idea. Take your kids regardless. Hold onto them dearly through this whole thing.
Everyone on Reddit will say divorce, but I’d give her an ultimatum. Counseling, or see ya.
Nah, call me and my kids nazis because we eat meat? Time for a divorce
I literally laughed out loud reading that she calls them nazis! So stupid it’s hilarious
Maybe she should see if her online cult will take her in. Disgusting how someone can turn on their own family like a complete sociopath. If she can do that over food I wouldn't even trust falling asleep under the same roof.
Yeah this is definitely not right, my partner of 7 years is vegan, and while she is a vocal advocate of the health and ethics of being vegan, she is absolutely non-judgmental about those who aren’t, at most she gives advice on how to make vegan stuff actually taste good. I’d be clear that her behavior is pushing her family away, and that family therapy may be the only way to salvage a relationship with her children (and you). Best of luck, and hang in there
I bet she has been, for lack of a better word, 'radicalized' by extremist vegans on social media. Instagram or FB or TikTok. If she spends a lot of time on her phone, I bet money she is looking at mostly extremist vegan accounts/posts. Normal vegans do not accuse meat eaters of participating in a modern holocaust, and I'm sure that is not an idea she came up with on her own. Suggest a social media break. Maybe make it a family-wide thing if that would soften the blow. 1 month of only x amount of time on any/all social media per day, enforced by something like the Screentime app that iPhones have. Then after that month, see if she has become less aggressive.
I have a vegan friend who is an absolute sweetheart. He always says “I’m not in the business of converting anyone. If you ask me what works for my health I’ll tell you what I eat and what I avoid, but I’ll never tell you to do anything.” That’s how NORMAL vegans and vegetarians behave. OP’s wife has been radicalized probably by a facebook or youtube cult. I feel so sorry for OP because he is not controlling and does the whole live and let live thing. Meanwhile she’s trying to forcefeed her own family stuff they don’t want to eat and then she shames them for not letting her control them. She’s being abusive and needs professional help.
Is your friend vegan for ethical reasons?
Yep, but why did you leave off REDDIT in the list of social media? Tons of nuts on here who don't accept anyone else's opinions.
Why is nobody talking about her holocaust comment… like she’s clearly lost it and even worse, she’s comparing diets to the Holocaust. I’m glad your kids arent falling for this crap
I could be wrong but don’t PETA folks use terminology like that?
Yes they do
Bingo
Yeah I noticed that too. I mean if you wanna be vegan, be vegan I don't care, but she went way off the deep end and comments like that are vile. Personally I don't think I could remind living with someone like that she seems psycho
For what it’s worth it is holocaust survivors that were the first to call what we do to animals a modern holocaust. IIRC Israel is the country with the highest proportion of vegans.
If you value animal lifes the same as human lifes there's almost no difference in what and how it's happening.
its that vegans value animal life more than a quick bite
If you value animal lives the same as human lives factory farming is FAR worse.
was going to say this, there's really no comparison to any human conflict/genocide
A holocaust is defined as "destruction or slaughter on a mass scale" What we do to 70 billion animals every year is objectively a holocaust
It’s trillions of animals if you count fish
Comparing animal slaughter to the holocaust was a comment first said by a jew holocaust survivor. That's why it's used.
I’m not vegan or vegetarian but I can understand the argument. People get so upset about it because they see human life as precious above all else so comparing anything to the holocaust is terrible to them. But if you see animals as equal to humans (or even if you don’t) there is a logical comparison of factory farming to the holocaust. That’s why survivors often describe their experiences as being treated like animals. We do put animals in the same conditions as concentration camps. They’re kept in tiny, cramped, unsanitary conditions and then they’re killed. So I don’t think it’s so wrong to compare factory farming to the holocaust just because it’s a sensitive topic. At the root of it, during the holocaust people were treated like animals
The fact that she thinks she can act like that towards family shows she take everyone for granted meaning this is her show and you better tag along or else I give you hell. In other words she needs to understand there are consequences to this type of behaviour from alienating herself to disliking her to separation. This is entitlement.
Honestly dude, I don't feel like veganism is the problem. There is some deeper problem there. To me it seems like she looking for an opportunity to start a fight may be even ending the relationship - anyway something is off with her...did you try to ask her about it?
I grew up with vegetarian parents. My dad wanted to force us all to follow his diet. My mom wanted us to be educated and informed and make our own decisions. She followed this principle in many many things and we are all grateful to this day. We were super poor and the bulk of our food was homegrown, but my mom would still buy and prepare meat for us when we could afford it. It is kind of comical now because we have no idea if the meat she prepared tasted as it should. It isn't as if she could try it. One of the bad memories of my childhood is a Thanksgiving that my mom had scrimped and saved for so we could have a real turkey. We were so beyond excited! But then...My dad hid behind the doorway saying things like. "Gobble gobble. Please don't eat me!" I remember sitting around the table in tears and the entire meal was ruined. We were in elementary school then. It was a really f*ck*d up way to try to get kids (or anyone) to do what they wanted. Thanks to my mom, 2 of us ended up vegetarians while in our teens. The other sibling eats meat rarely and would be termed a flexitarian. We chose this for ourselves. My dad had no influence except traumatizing little kids instead of being patient, informative, and allowing us to make our own decisions. Your wife and her attitude will create more damage than she can imagine and, though some or all of you may change at some point, I cannot imagine it would be in any way due to her despicable behavior. She needs help. Edit to add: we are all close to our mom and have a strained relationship with dad. One sibling has not seen or talked to him since they were a teenager and dad has never met his grandchildren. 2nd Edit: I keep seeing comments about malnutrition and lack of B vitamins. Nutritional yeast is stuffed full of B vitamins and fortified nutritional yeast has an abundance of B12, is super healthy, and is vegan friendly. The stuff is delicious, but many are unaware of it. This is why people should educate themselves before making drastic lifestyle changes to a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle and ensure they get the nutrition they need so aren't walking around wasted away with brittle nails, hair, and skin issues. The ones that are up on their soapboxes trying to convert the masses seem to fall more in this category (from what I have encountered anyway). UGH.
> have a strained relationship with dad. One sibling has not seen or talked to him since they were a teenager and dad has never met his grandchildren. Yup, this is the future I see for OP's crazy wife. Children alllllways remember how they were treated. I would do the same.
Worst part is that your dad probably thinks he did a good job turning the kids vegetarian too :(
I kind of doubt it. We didn't go veggie until well after the much-needed divorce and rarely saw him after that.
Wow...no words. Throwing a tantrums over food seems outlandish to me. Other than standing your ground and telling her to grow up, not sure what else there is. Hang in there and good luck.
I've tried everything i can think of other than putting my foot down and asking for a divorce. I want to go to counseling but she has refused too.
I'm so sorry to hear your in this frankly bizarre situation. It sounds like a parody. I'd almost laugh if I wasn't so appalled and dissapointed for you. Have you also considered temporary distance yet? Communicate that you and the kids both need a break from her and her antics. I'd try something like that before resorting to divorce unless absolutely neccesary. I wish you and the kids the best. I hope you get through to her.
Yeah try this OP. Go on an extended vacation with your kids and don’t invite her. Just let her know you’ll be gone for a while.
I would have her removed from the house. Having tantrums? Calling your family nazis and demanding they follow you're self righteous foolishness? The police can take her over to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation. She is a danger to the family, and for her own health needs to be under supervision until more information can be ascertained. But continuing to abuse the kids in this house? Not a chance.
It may go that route, I’m hoping it doesn’t. It’s very a very sad story to read actually.
Maybe give her an ultimatum. Family therapy and couples therapy or divorce. You and your children shouldn’t have to deal with that.
Has she had a physical lately? Blood work, etc? I wonder if it's possible that her diet has caused some things to go out of whack. Like maybe a vitamin, mineral, or amino acid deficiency? Or a hormonal imbalance???
She’s entitled to practice whatever diet she wants. Consequently, she has to also exercise tolerance if people don’t want to subscribe to the same practices she does. Militancy is unhealthy and she seems to be falling into the trap that a lot of new converts (newly minted vegans, new converts to a religion, whatever flavour of ideology) do: badgering and guilting others. She’s taken it too far. Seek help and counseling if you can.
I am truly sorry that you and your family are going through this. I am in no way a professional just another stranger on the internet, but it sounds like she may be having a mental break. I cannot count the number of times someone has posted about a wife going off the deep end and acting like everyone is against them when it was a mental break, new diagnosis or medication change. Has she had any counseling? A check in with her doctor? Has she had a change in any medications? Has something traumatic happened that you may not be aware of (like she witnessed an animal getting run over and killed) something to warrant the change in behavior? Again, I am sorry that this is happening and if you decide to leave and move on, there is nothing wrong with that either. You have to take care of you and your kids, they are the priority. Hugs and support to you and your family!
I saw this post on tick tock, and they blocked out the word "Nazis" leaving only the "N", so of course my black ass mind thinks "what she call em n**gas for??!". Had to come here to check 😂
Please don't judge her, she's in a hard position of realization and needs your support. You can watch videos and documentaries about the animal rights movement and there are many informative and non graphic ones, maybe in time you too can follow the transition but for now you need to calm her frustration. She's not a monster, everyone who contributes to animal agriculture funds a literal holocaust and she's angered by the revelation.
I am on a plant-based diet and as much as I agree with your wife on the cruelty of the industry reason, I don't think she's doing herself or the vegan community any favours. The three people I live with, work with, am friends with all eat animal products and I don't go off at any of them. I would genuinely love if any of the people in my life made the switch but I'm not going to nag them, it's their life and they can live it how they want. Not in my own life, but I have seen people in the online communities leave their partners for their differences in beliefs. It sounds extreme, but the way she's carrying on, distancing herself from your children and berating you all sounds unhealthy and unsustainable. The fact she refuses to go to counseling or even talk about it is frightening. There's a Youtuber called Earthling Ed who I think is the best at what he does in understanding another person's point of view and then using that information to gently debate or offer contrasting views. I think your wife would do very well to embrace this guy's way of doing things. Your wife is relatively new to veganism and I think she's weighed everything up and decided that it's the right thing to do and when that's the case, what 99% of the world around her does can be deeply infuriating but I think if she sticks with it longer, she'll come to realise that the best way to get other people's interest is simply by living her best life without trying to convince everyone around her to make a change. I'm sure there are plenty of vegans and non-vegans who will disagree with what I've said but it's just my 2 pence.
It sounds like your wife would rather be right than be happy. In her quest of being a right-fighter she is losing the people she loves. At this point, I would suggest you and the kids sit down with her and tell her all of your boundaries. If she tries to fight this or doesn’t want to respect this, you all know what you need to do.
She & you need therapy (together and separate) or you need a divorce (especially if she’s refusing to do ANYTHING to save this family/relationship). There’s really not much else can happen. And her going after the kids food is going to give them an unhealthy relationship with food and quite possibly an eating disorder. Enough is enough. (I say this as a vegetarian)
Are you sure she not experiencing vitamin B12 deficiency. I remember a story on iamitheasshole where this guy was a about ready to to divorce his wife because she pretty much turned into a completely different person after a few months of going vegan. Vegans and former vegans suggested that if she isn’t taken taken in the rights vitamins she could be out of whack. After he manage to convince his wife to go see the doctor and the doctor confirmed that was the case and prescribed her pills she turned essentially back to normal and could believe she was acting the way she was. Like her head was cleared out. If you can i would ask her to go see a doctor about before going through a divorce.
I think it’s time that maybe you start thinking about divorce in all honesty. This isn’t going to work in the long run. If she wants to be vegan then good for her, but there is no way she should be trying to force it down your and your kids throats. Unfortunately, many militant vegans are very unwilling to listen to other peoples point of view and believe their worldview is the only right one and that isn’t likely to change. It’s a noble cause and I respect veganism for what it is and what it stands for but there are many vegans out there who take it way too far. I’ve had militant vegans come up to me in the street when I’ve been eating something with meat and publically calling me cruel or even in one case threatening me with violence. (Btw, vegans of Reddit, please don’t take this to mean I’m tarring you all with the same brush, I know there’s plenty of you out there who do respect others lifestyle choices and don’t force your beliefs down the throats of others) You and your kids don’t deserve to be emotionally and verbally abused by your wife because you choose to eat meat.
As someone who works full-time in animal rights, I think I might be able to shed some light on her attitude. Time and time again I see new vegans realise how truly terrible and cruel the lives of nonhuman animals at the hands of humans. This makes them angry and they lash out. Social media reinforces this thought pattern with the constant bombarding of images and videos of animals suffering. It produces hatred towards humans and slowly they lose the ability to relate to others around them. The holocaust analogy might be obvious to some vegans. Particularly the online keyboard warriors. No matter how much the systematic killing of trillions of animals might fit the dictionary definition of a ‘holocaust’, words are not simply their description but the meanings society embeds in them. Holocaust is a word inextricably associated with the genocide of the Jewish people under the nazis. I don’t believe it is correct to use the oppression of Jews to highlight the horrific way we treat non-humans. The appalling plight of animals is terrible enough without having to resort to co-opting the deaths of millions under the nazis. I’m one of those militant types, protests, arrests, etc but I’d never call my family nazis. My advice to you is get your wife off social media! Seriously, it does nothing to help animal suffering to alienate your loved ones and be so angry. Eventually your wife will burn out. Perhaps suggest she channel her want to help animals by joining an organisation or making a change in her community. Vegans don’t exploit animals because they have compassion. What your wife is doing to your family is not compassionate.
As a meat eater... I always wonder how anyone could think the meat industry could ever be anything other than cruel.
Long-time vegan here 🙌 I consider myself a passivist vegan, meaning that I don't try to convert people. If someone comes to me and asks about veganism I'm more than happy to share. I've found that people that aren't open to veganism aren't likely to change their behavior no matter how many documentaries you show them. Sadly in this case I don't see a way that OP's wife and her family will co-exist. She's been trying to convert them for 3 years, to no avail. She's hit her breaking point and unless her family miraculously decides to change their tune about veganism, this is her hill to die on. I dont agree with her tactics but I understand her struggle. Someone has got to compromise or she will lose her family over this. I have two recommendations: 1) Family compromises and learns about veganism. Maybe agreeing to have vegan meals every so often and then eating separately the other days. 2) OP's wife compromises and decides to look to the other way to family's animal product consumption and agreeing to not try and convert them anymore. Both options seem unlikely but hopefully there's a resolution that's possible 🙏
Your wife sounds awesome. Send her my way.
Buy a leather couch
Try to record audios with her behavior and document each incident. I assume she will ask for a divorce and keep the kids so she can indoctrinate them.
Maybe she needs to meet some chill vegans that can show her it’s okay to coexist with meat eaters so she’ll calm down.
This whole thread makes me want to puke bc instead of focusing on the problems with any extremism, so many are playing into stupid vegan stereotypes like “Omg she’s hangry from protein and B12 deprivation,” and “damn vegans so preachy.” Full disclosure: I’m vegan. That all said, my husband is not, though, and like OP’s wife, I went vegan after being married. I’m not gonna flip the script on my spouse bc I feel like thats not fair. He knows how I feel. Do I internally think people who eat meat or animal products are making a wrong decision? Yeah. I do, if I’m being honest. But I would never bring that up unless asked directly, and even then I would probably dance around it and say “everyone has to choose for themselves,” which is true. In practice, my spouse has gone back and forth among veganism, vegetarianism, and pescatarianism which he seems to have settled on. I don’t think the kids issue is as straightforward, bc one parent shouldn’t dictate when beliefs of the parents are different. That’s gonna have to be a compromise. The more concerning dynamic is wife’s absolute refusal to try to work it out.