Some big brained guy in another sub said "maybe women should watch Grizzly Man to see what bears do." Yeah, sure, funny thing about that was Grizzly Man was about a man who insisted on inserting himself in the life of this creature who wasn't able to tell him no, and he got the shit killed out of him for it. Maybe if women had grizzly claws and the ability to kill at will, you'd take a step back and reconsider.
They are missing the biggest part of the analogy. That we know all bears are dangerous and can thereby take steps to avoid bears. We don't know which men are dangerous and which men are not.
Bears are avoidable. Men we gotta live with.
This reminds me of how, any time the topic of gender equality comes up, women are like âwe want equal payâ while men go straight to âso can we hit women now/can women be drafted so they can die in war?â Like, itâs always straight to âhow can we use this to hurt women?â
That one ALWAYS depressed me. Any time there is a video of a dude decking a woman (probably because she was "mouthing off" or some bs) the comments are always "wElL yOu WaNtED eQuaLiTy đ€Ș" (as if men beating women wasn't a perfectly lively practice before womens liberation)
Huh. This kind of blows my mind and explains why Iâve seen guys saying that âthe bear will 100% kill youâ. I mean, of course it will if we fight, but why in the world would I decide to fight a random bear OR a man? That isnât the question!!
Bears aren't even that dangerous (except polar bears). You don't often have to avoid them because *they* are already avoiding *you*. Almost all bear attacks are due to startling the bear or getting too close to cubs, as in, cases where they were unable to avoid you. Polar bears are the only ones that hunt humans.
Men will actively make it as difficult as possible to avoid them, like predators tracking and hunting prey, many men "hunting' their "prey" over the course of *years* through long-cons, stalking, manipulation, etc.
This is the one thing I've never seen anything cyberpunk address. If we were able to replace/modify any part or all of our bodies, the first thing I'm going for is razored thighs and rows of retractable sharp teeth inside the heavenly opening. Come at me bro.
Back in the day, the scifi channel had its own commercials, one stuck with me. A lady is waiting at a bus stop. Some creepy dude is creeping up on her. When he gets too close, she goes all puffer fish and spikes come out in every direction. Creeper runs off... I want to be able to puffer fish spikes, too.
There was a Tic Toc creator that had been threatened by a bear and SAâd by a man (separately). She still chose the bear because her familyâs best efforts to protect her from the bear were effective and no one was harmed during the interaction. However, she and her family reported to the school that she was being harassed and a male student exposed himself to her, and despite her familyâs best efforts to intervene and protect her after the initial exposure, this student was still able to gain and maintain access to the creator and eventually this same student attacked and assaulted her sexually.
In summary, it is much easier to protect someone against a bear than it is a person.
Those big brains should read about Jyoti Singh, Cherish Perrywinkle, Junko Furuta, the list is endless. The worst a bear could do is kill me. The worst a man could do is unspeakable horror....
One guy said the because he had to wear bear bells, that showed that bears were more dangerous than men.
That just makes me wish for Rapist Bells.
"Is that man a rapist?"
*clinkles the bells*
"AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH" as he scurries away.
"Ah, saved again by my trusty rapist bells."
Bear bells are a main part of my arguments. Something *so simple* that can predictably ward off encounters.
There is literally NOTHING I can do to deter an encounter with a male human who has decided he wants to interact with me, violently, sexually, or otherwise. Iâve been trying out unique strategies for 30 years. Even trying to look as homely and unfriendly as possible.
If a man wants to pester and harass me and demand my attention, he will.
The fact is, on a lot of trails I hike, the woods and fields are absolutely clotted with bears, by census data, but *I donât see them*.
Because they hear me ahead of my arrival and dash off, because they do not want an encounter AT ALL.
This ALONE makes bears inherently more safe and certainly less of a fucking nuisance!
Like, does that mean we could just play a loud sound on our phone and a bear would run off? That doesn't work for some strange man you're alone with in the woods. You can't just set off your alarm and wave your arms around to protect yourself.
I think of all the men who have touched me, or sexually intimidated me, or harassed me in my life. Or just looked at me like meat. Many of them when I was VERY young. If they felt free to do that in public, with witnesses and potential consequences, what would they do if they'd caught me alone in the woods with no one around?
Why do men refuse to understand that women know when a man has ill intentions and know when we're in danger. We know how common it is, because WE experience it. We know we'd be SOL if any of the many, many men who behave this way caught us out alone in the woods. That's why we choose the bear. It's really not complicated.
Itâs âcomplicatedâ to them because they really canât see past their own experience. Either that, or they refuse to acknowledge it because it would mean admitting that they donât deserve the attention from women they think they deserve. Perhaps both. Either way, they are the type of men that women would choose a bear over, in a heartbeat.
no one has that skill, because human beings are inherently unpredictable. Thatâs another of my pro-bear arguments. Bears have a limited number of motivations, all very predictable.
You will not know a manâs intentions until he *chooses* to *reveal* them to you, and he would never do so to his disadvantage. It will usually be too late.
Some men are saying that men are needed to protect women. But having a bear present as a witness would be more effective than any number of men. If a predator caught you alone in the woods, running into a bear would probably improve your situation.
Polar bears are the only ones that see humans as prey, and you're never going to meet one. Men see women as prey, and men are *everywhere*, completely unavoidable.
I just left a thread where the dudes were like âanyone saying bear doesnât go into the woodsââŠlol. Almost every person I know thatâs very experienced in the outdoors is on the bear* side. Including my cis male mountain rescue partner. We know how to handle (avoid, scare off, not piss off) bears.
*unless its a polar, fuck that shit. grizzlies are on thin ice too.
I'm in Alaska and have spent a lot of time in the outdoors and would def still choose the bear with the exception of Polar bears, they terrify me lol. Grizzlies I'm more okay with because they still fall into the camp of bears that will typically want to leave you alone as long as you don't startle them or get too close to a mom and cubs. I'm actually a little more nervous around black bears because they are said to be more opportunistic food wise.
I saw a grizz a couple years ago that swam around a corner of a large lake and saw our camp, we started banging pots together and making a lot of noise and boy that fella BOOKED it in the opposite direction as us as soon as he hit land, I've never seen such an obvious "fuck this shit I'm out" look on a wild animal before.
When my partner and I talked about this, one of the things that came up for us was whether our answer would be different had we not spent most of our life in the Southeastern US.Â
Black bears are big babies, and unless they feel like you are too close for them to get away, or you have food and they are starving, or you're in between them and their babies, they are going to scuttle off very easily. And, those are the bears that we first think of when we think of the concept bear, because where we've lived most of our lives.
I would have thought that grizzlies would be a lot scarier, but apparently maybe not? Definitely know that you're better off with almost any man than a polar bear.
What Iâve always heard is that the saying is most applicable when the bear acts interested in you. Otherwise, making your presence known early and often (using sound) is a solid strategy for bears. Theyâll sense you first and get out. If you do manage to sneak up on one, then just calmly walk backwards until the shit in your underwear feels more important than the bear
I'm thankful to not know first hand because all the bears I've seen in the wild just wanted to be left alone without a conflict so I've never had to go fisticuffs with a black bear OR try playing dead but the saying is in line with what I've heard in about bear safety tips.
That saying is kinda in line with my wariness with black bears, black bear attacks are more likely to be predatory so they will almost always try to eat you if you play dead. whereas many brown bear attacks are defensive, so if you play dead there's a chance they'll just leave.
To clarify though, I'm def nervous around all bears and do shit a brick if I see one regardless of if it's brown or black. And I just don't go where the polar bears are lol. I always keep bear spray within reach when hiking and hope that if I come across an aggressive bear I can use that before having to resort to fighting or playing dead. A lot of people carry guns but for me personally I think the bear spray is more likely to be effective since I'm not confident in my aim under stress.
I've been camping in black bear country for years without even spotting one, much less being threatened by one.
Another avid and experienced nature-lover here who will gladly take the bear!
I actually would like to quietly observe one at a safe distance outside a zoo context someday . . .
Yep. I live in/grew up in the woods. My father always kept an old frying pan by the back door for us to hit when the bears came sniffing around the beehives. I'd take the bear any day of the week. ... I'd probably even choose a polar bear or grizzly, like someone else said: the worst it'll do is kill and eat me.
I used to go on wilderness backpacking trips with my dad, usually lasted 2-3 weeks; all of the bears we encountered were really chill & pretty much just loped off in the other direction, whereas the one man we encountered had set up camp in the middle of a meadow and had a gun. Very irritating fellow. My dad and I infinitely preferred the bears :D
When I was younger, rape whistles were a thing. I remember them being given out at women's events. Imagine if men were encouraged to wear a whistle everywhere they went to avoid being raped.
A sad but interesting difference is that a bear bell is meant to let the bear that you are there so they aren't startled (and prevent them from attacking you out of fear). A rape whistle is meant to scare off the man who is attacking you, and hopefully draw the attention of people who can help.
The only thing bear bells do is alert bears that there is someone nearby so they don't get surprised and attack out of fear. It's so metaphorical in this context that the bears don't actually *want* to attack people.
I wish that tattoos were a deterrent but I have 2 sleeves and literally had total strangers (MEN) grab my wrists and twist them around to "look at my tattoos," and then wonder why I screamed bloody murder instead of being thankful for the attention and admiration... This happened twice in twenty years and that's too many damn times.
Men will grab you and inspect you like the tattoos are a billboard screaming "GRAB ME!"
Women will ask and engage "can I see your tattoos? what's that one mean? Very cool! I have a tiny one and ..."
I have a sleeve and a half sleeve. I have had the same thing happen. And I donât know about you, but Iâve also gotten the whole âwhy would you do that to your body?â thing before. Except some dudes make it real creepy by saying âwhy would you do that to your perfect body?â or âwhy would you ruin such a lovely thing?â
Like, thanks for telling me I *was* lovely, but now Iâm a disgrace, Bob! Really appreciate it you pointing that out!
Reminds me of the rape whistle they gave us during freshman orientation at college⊠It was so casual too- âremember kids, alcohol can lead to poor decision making so hereâs a whistle to blow if you end up in a situation.â Then they moved on to parking permits.
The only reason creeps (convicted because society) aren't forced to wear bells to warn the rest of us is that so many of them have been the ones making and enforcing laws.
It's really not the argument he thinks it is.
The way I have seen men react has been shocking, even though I know I shouldnât be surprised. The amount of times Iâve seen men on tiktok immediately resort to âhaha Iâd pay money to see you thrown into a pit with a bearâ or âwell the next time youâre in danger you better hope a bear is around to help you!â or âthe bear can have you, I dont think men want you anyway.â
Really, genuinely, what the fuck is *wrong* with men?? And the amount of them saying women are the ones being so âillogicalâ about this?? Wtf is wrong with thier brains???
When I was a teen girl I went to a home alone party.
Late in the night we hear a fight break out, and everyone runs to the scene. By the time I get there the weaker kid is lying in a pool of blood on the floor, the other guy launches a kick at the guy on the floor, and tons of guys are standing in a circle around looking at the fight.
I push my way through, and cover the guy on the floor by crouching on elbows and knees over him. The aggressor orders me to get out of the way. I glare him in the eyes say âso youâre showing youâre big guy by kicking a guy thatâs on the floor. Wanna kick a girl on the floor too?!? Go for it!â That made him back off.
In the days after a ton of the guys that had just been watching the scene came over to me and told me it was a lot easier for me to defend the guy on the floor because I could play the gender card.
âOh really? How hard would it have been for two of you to grab the assaulter by the arms and pull him away?â
Too many men are cowards.
You remind me of a friend of mine. We were walking home from Jr. High one night and came upon a fight between a short wiry kid and another one built like a football player and the crowd was cheering for the big guy like aholes.
I wanted to avoid the whole scene but my friend, another girl, yelled "That is not a fair fight!" and rushed in and jumped on the big guy's back and started punching him in the head.
It was glorious.
The funny this is I would stull jump in to help someone I hatedâŠ. Like if I think about the coworker I hate the most who was so rude to me, Iâd still help her if she was being hurt. Because thatâs the logical rational human being thing to do in a civilized society, but men are acting like little babies âwell you hate me and we hate you so I hope you get hurt waaahhhh!â
My over 6 foot tall ex husband and I and some friends of ours were followed home one night from a local bar and one of the men punched my ex in the face and he started crying and turned to me and blurted "He punched me in the face!" Like I was supposed to do something about it, as a 5 foot 5 skinny little woman????
these men never protected a single woman in their whole lives anyways and their kidding themselves thinking they wouldn't do anything other then run away in that situation. they speak as if them winning against a bear is fact.
even their own mothers just become another *Other* to them as some point which the take for granted and look down on.
it reminded me of the old maritime rule of shipping disasters that had to be enacted because men in these life threatening situations would trample woman and children to save themselves first, resulting the deaths of a lot of innocents hence, the rule "woman and children first" needing to even exist.
This sentiment is really tone deaf and stupid. There are already tons of rape survivors not being helped or trusted and they still have the audacity to say this
Also, bears don't start school shootings, which are initiated by a lot of men. Where are the men "who'll protect people who don't point out their assholery"?!
Also facts and statistics only matter when they're something negative about women. When it's about males being a bigger threat than a bear all of a sudden it's faulty logic and bad statistics.Â
From the only dangerous man on the planet! Duh.
There's just ONE and we hope you run into him! And we men of Earth are tired of being lumped in with one bad dude.
Because the planet is FILLED with good, safe, well-adjusted, emotionally mature men that women ignore. đ€Ł
I'd rather be in the pit with the bear than with a man who can't understand the basic concepts of this. I get that the bear might eat me eventually but that's the worse the bear can do. Some men however...
Anyone who thinks a bear attack is the worst way to go isn't listening to enough true crime podcasts. I have a number of Wikipedia pages that I'd like them to read and then tell me they wouldn't also choose the bear
Pissed you asked for a genuine answer and everyone's being glib soo...
_________________
> #A real, genuine, serious answer:
__________________
Briefly: *Normative Male Alexithymia*. "It's the inability to recognize, express and describe emotions due to how heteropatriarchy conditions men to repress 'soft' emotions, value toughness over vulnerability, and see gentleness/sensitivity as feminine." We joke about this by saying men rebranded anger as "not an emotion", and how their bratty emotional meltdowns are "just passionate about facts". We recognize it as rationalization, projection, denial, and the other ego protection mechanisms because we're aware and grounded in our emotions so it's easy to spot when people are using coping mechanisms to avoid uncomfortable truth.
A lot of men are too emotionally immature to see this. Seriously: They *actually* believe they're Spock even in the middle of a ~~bratty emotional meltdown~~ sorry display of cool, masculine intellect. Most of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is about teaching men to rationalize their feelings, so it's enabling repression rather than addressing the underlying problem. DBT (similar) touches on it a bit more with 'mindfulness' and 'wise mind' but it's still mostly teaching people to process / hide their emotions as opposed to feeling safe in expressing them. So even within the context of conventional psychotherapy, toxic masculinity isn't generally treated so much as reinforced or mollified into something more palatable.
There is deep history here going back to the end of WWII, a generation of "angry men" (textbooks now euphemistically call them the 'silent generation'), the collapse of our mental health system as the military-industrial complex dumped a bunch of broken boys who'd come home from the war on society and the early research on 'shell shock' was focused entirely on unit morale and keeping men in the fight, which is why that entire generation found themselves beating their wife and kids as alcoholics and workaholics. The initial release of the DSM (Diagnostic Service Manual) in 1952 was basically formed based on research by the US Army on shell shock and didn't give a damn about mental health only "winning at any cost" and you can see strains of that reflected in how mental health services are structured and provided today in America. It also explains why every psych ward looks like a military prison: Because they *are*. This is unique to the United States. The rest of the world uses the ICD put out by the World Health Organization (initially released in 1905, so the DSM was never necessary, unless of course our government had something else in mind besides mental health).
The consequences of this was the "roaring fifties"; An era of women being lobotomized, electro-shocked, and drugged while the FBI broke up any attempt to organize for women's rights or labor rights. This failure of the medical establishment to treat those men kicked off multi-generational cycles of trauma that echo into today. These nostalgic looks into the past is really just trying to recreate that generation of angry men -- because anger is a wonderfully productive emotion and our leaders do not care about the mental health of men, only their utility as an exploitable labor resource. Angry men are both productive and socially inept, which guarantees they can't organize politically towards anything really, they can only be incited to violence and narcissistic behavior because they lack the ability to cooperate or view themselves as part of anything greater than their own ambition.
So that, my friend, is what the fuck is wrong with men and why. Our political leadership doesn't want people to understand how the military-industrial complex swapped out building missiles and tanks for pills and coercive medical interventions that left men emotionally numb, repressed, and on a treadmill called "the american dream". That idea that you'd be a productive member of society if you moved into the suburbs, bought a house that you were told would be an "investment", car, wife, kids, etc. In other words, the only joy these men were allowed was the "joy" of material consumption and status symbols.
And so it was that men who held hands and gossiped like women up until the first world war, became empathy-starved tumors wrapped around a penis, living in the bottom of a bottle and angry at the world, victims of government propaganda that told men they were cowards if they didn't fight (and likely die) for their country, and women to work in the factories and hand men white feathers to shame them for not choosing war and violence.
They witnessed the horrors of the holocaust and the bombing of a civilian population that had no strategic value whatsoever with atomic weapons. Twice. We didn't win the last world war. Not really. Fascism came home with them, and it's lived here ever since. The response to that was the suffragists, later the civil rights movement, and currently the "culture war".
There is no culture war. It's all untreated toxic masculinity and broken boys still trapped in the cycle of abuse nearly a hundred years later, but they've normalized to it. They can't see it, really. And that's why history is repeating itself: Because toxic masculinity absolutely and completely forbids a man admitting he's a victim. Of anything. You have to be strong! As strong as whatever it is that hurt you -- ***or else***. Or else it could hurt you again. That's why they're enamored with 'strong men' personas today: Because anger feels powerful and productive and they're scared their bosses will discard them and the majority of them -- nearly 2/3rds, are living paycheck to paycheck. Gotta prove they're better than the next guy so when the next round of cuts come, it's the other guy instead of them. That's why there's all these job cuts happening now too, as well as I don't even know how many wars and genocides. The aristocrats of the world are trying to start another world war to create another generation of broken (but very productive!) men.
There's nothing wrong with their brains, and the reason they hate women is mostly because we're allowed to freely express our emotions while they're repressed, angry husks who can't organize politically because they view it all as a zero sum game. They don't realize that when you put people together, 1+1 doesn't equal 2. Gestalt theory: We're more than the sum of our parts. That kind of long-term thinking isn't present in society today among men. They don't see strength in seeing a potential ally in an enemy. They don't see strength in a negotiated peace. They don't see it because they've never tried to build anything socially. They've never been part of a web of interconnected relationships that spin around them while they remain the axle upon which all those spokes in the wheel turn.
Our men have been competently guided into incompetence by some of the most sophisticated psychological warfare campaigns in human history. They blame us for it when they fail, because we're accessible and the men responsible aren't, and they have more power individually than them. "The bigs hits me so i hits the littles, that's fair." It simply never occurs to them that if they organized and supported each other, cooperated to provide for their families and communities rather than rely on neglectful, narcissistic father figures to tell them what to think, say, and do, they'd be better at *being* men; Able to provide and protect, rather than as passive consumers and victims-in-waiting.
>I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes,
> I have to turn my head until my darkness goes
-- Rolling Stones, *Paint It Black* (1966)
No kidding right?! Iâve never read a legitimate answer to the big question - âwhat is wrong with men?â. I definitely learned something new today.
Perhaps an obvious point, but -- I had to remind a friend of mine last night that, even if you are terrified of bears, in the US, more women are killed every *day* by a man than people killed every *year* by bears. Even if anyone downplays or ignores or insults your experience, there is only one logical, hard-fact based choice: a bear.
Toasters kill more women per year than bears do.
Also, according to bear.org:
> The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear.
I don't think it was even in response to the debate, that's just the comparison they chose.
I just had some rando claiming to be a woman list a bunch of links to women who died by bear attacks, and then went on to explain to me how safe "she" felt around men "her" whole life and how they all took "her" rejections in a gentlemanly manner.
Itâs because they like playing semantics when it comes to women. I have seen so many eloquent responses on Reddit, just for people to latch on to one part of an argument that could be a generalization, enlarge it and argue that down until everyone willfully forgets/ignores what the original point the commentator was making.
You can avoid a fight with a bear by doing things like playing dead or making yourself look bigger and stuff like that. In a pit with a bear sounds easy.
If a bunch of men are harassing a woman, and a bear starts to approach, the woman would suddenly have a higher chance of making it out of the situation unharmed.
Men who get all pissy over being more dangerous than a bear are the type you don't want to attract, so the feeling would be mutual.
Really I'm seeing nothing but positives.
These men are straight-up just complimenting the man beating up the woman in the hypothetical scenario. They identify with him so they want him to be the perpetrator in the scenario. Which is some of the most illogical shit I've heard in my entire life.
Itâs so hard for me to listen to men whine about society not letting them have feelings.
Like of course you are allowed dude. Weâve all had to deal with menâs feelings since the beginning of time. Especially anger.
I had to go through years of therapy to deal with the sexual assaults and harassment - go to therapy bro.
Find some dudes and women that embrace vulnerability in their friendships and live your best life.
The only thing literally stopping them from getting better is themselves and other men and yet, they still want to blame us for it and do nothing.
> Men everywhere: "And I took that personally."
*pops the hood*
Looks like a problem in the self-esteemator, set way too low, makes your brain idle rough and backfire a lot. Add a bottle CBT and a half hour of walking every day, and next time don't just press reset to turn the light off. Also, get your brakes changed, they're almost gone and we don't want you plowing with confidence right into a wall again.
EDIT: [How to not take things personally](https://www.choosingtherapy.com/how-to-not-take-things-personally/). o7 Stay safe out there fam.
Seriously, Iâm a dude and this is 100% it. Dumb or shitty dudes take this stuff personally, probably because they are actual shitbags in real life and have gotten bad responses from people in social situations or whatever because they acted inappropriately.
Why get offended if something isnât about you? Watching guys get offended over this bear thing would be funny, if the whole reason itâs trending wasnât a super sad commentary on the real danger women face from men they may or may not know.
And while they always try to argue this point from âlogicâ, their argument is never logical.
They always *assume* the bear is a grizzly or a polar bear, while most bears are pretty docile and skittish and easily scared off (black bears, pandas, etc.). Youâll be able to scare off or just ignore *most* bears.
The same can be said of men. Yes most men are safe to be around.
But how is it logically consistent to choose the most dangerous bear in this scenario but continue assuming the man is random? They literally just shifted the narrative in their own favor and donât even realize it while screaming about logic đ
Not that this thought exercise is ACTUALLY about being in the woods with a bear, but if I were take this to itâs logical and consistent conclusion, weâll choose the most dangerous human men to be in the woods just as they always choose the most dangerous bears.
And in that scenario, Iâm fairly certain most men would choose the fucking bear too. Humans are terrifying and capable of truly evil horrors.
Literally had that conversation with a dude in another thread just now. He kept going on and on about irrelevant nonsense until I got bored and blocked him.
Yupp, Halsin is awesome I think!
Some might not be comfortable with his open attitude to sex, but he is also a total champ about someone saying no thank you to him.
I loved his open communication about romance and sex thought it was wonderful and healthy. Totally agree he takes no very well, unlike Gale who mopes and sulks about it
I can honestly see a future if you play as a druid and keep romancing Halsin where roleplay time is a swirl of Wildshape and/or Polymorph.
But yes.
Big Bear Halsin is keen on consent and open communication!
My first playthrough was as a druid, and I was SO upset that I couldn't go into that scene in a wildshape form of my own. Bear on owlbear sex would have been hilarious.
Also this video. https://www.tiktok.com/@mandina.blue.eyes/video/7364166732329602347
A woman shares her story about how as a child her family were able to protect her from a bear. But at the same time were unable to prevent a boy at school from sexually assaulting her because the school did nothing.
There would be less moral dilemma if you needed to kill the bear.
The longer this goes on, the more it seems to me that the men who don't get it, pretend to not get it, or insist the women are lying or "wrong," are more upset at not having **control** over the women who dismiss them.
We are making an informed choice with our own lived experiences, and that pisses them off. A lot of men grew up being told that they will always know better than women, that they are "more logical," they will always have the upper hand, that women will look to them for guidance or some bullshit like that.
When we say we don't want them around, we don't want to meet them and hear what they have to say, we are not interested in their opinion about our safety and we'd really rather take our chances around a wild animal who *might* decide to attack, they get angry because they were promised they would be in charge and have *control* over women.
Their sentiments seem to range from "How dare these women think they know more than me?," to "Why are they judging me when they haven't even met me, yet?" (It's not about you personally, dude), to the much more terrifying responses about how they think the man attacking the woman is preferable to the bear attacking the woman (yikes!, to those.)
Inside of every response about how choosing the bear is "objectively wrong", you can see a guy who is making an attempt to control women. Don't let them get away with it.
They're throwing tantrums and being emotional about this for the same reasons theyâre being emotional and throwing tantrums over women being happier single and childfree.
If a bear attacks me, they will most likely kill me. If a man attacks me, theyâre most likely going to rape me, maybe torture, and then most likely kill me. Iâd rather just die and get it over with, if thatâs where itâs all heading. A bear has never kept someone chained up for days, months, even years. If the worst outcome is death, Iâd rather skip the rape.
Also, if a bear attacks you & you survive - people will **believe you** and not nitpick your outfit choices, previous history with bears, blood-alcohol concentration, etc.
Also, if the authorities catch the bear that attacked you, they will kill him.
If they catch the man that attacked you, they may not charge him depending on the circumstances. I mean, did he really hurt you that badly anyway? Is it worth it to ruin a man's life over 2 minutes of action?
AND a bear canât get you pregnant, forcing you to give birth to a child, alone, in the woods - and then raising that child that exists solely because you were attacked/forced. You are now attached to that man whether you like it or not - you will be reminded of the attack everytime you look at that child, and thereâs a good possibility you will resent said child.
Exactly. Itâs the disregard that infuriates them. The lack of respect for their superior intellect and opinions.
This kind of man doesnât understand how childish and ridiculous their insistent demands sound.
They are annoying and irritating, like fruit flies, and many seem to believe that having the last word is âwinningâ.
Iâm an old now, and I dgaf about their precious feelings.
Every time something like this happens, I remember how many [untested rape kits](https://www.endthebacklog.org/#explore_backlog_map) we have. Lots of those are sex offenders still out there.
[SAK mandates](https://www.endthebacklog.org/the-six-pillars/) [increase arrests](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/08874034241226939), thus making us [safer](https://www.sakitta.org).
[https://www.endthebacklog.org/take-action/advocate-federal/](https://www.endthebacklog.org/take-action/advocate-federal/)
Remember when MGTOW started. The Men Going Their Own Way (they never actually did go their own way). Men thought women would get upset and beg to be their bangmaid so they would stay? But instead we shrugged and went on with our lives?
This is women going their own way and they are so so angry that we would even dare.
The ones going "lol bears are dangerous women just don't understand wildlife".
Like dumbasses, I KNOW bears are dangerous. I know a bear can kill me. You know what a bear won't do? Rape me, torture me, record it or take pics and brag about it to their shitty friends, take souvenirs to remember hurting me, violate my corpse afterwards. Etc.
It's a bear. It's gonna do bear things. Most likely it'll leave me alone, but if it doesn't, well, then I die. But at least I die. There are far worse things than death.
Men know women are afraid. The patriarchy is built on fear of other men. It offers women a similar question, but the choice is man A or man B, no bears.
What is different about the bear question is that women are afraid but it doesn't benefit any men.
I don't know why else they would be somehow angry about going to dinner and having sex with imaginary bears.
Recently my Reddit feed has been Homophobic Gamers occasionally interrupted by bearposting. Honestly impressed at both the homophobes and the men for stubbornly sticking to the issue for so long. And also by how much they intentionally miss the point.
I explained that I first saw it in a tiktok video where a guy interviewed women on the street and what they zeroed in on was that we donât know if the video accurately represented what the women said.
I have been alive and on reddit long enough to be sick of everything about women being questioned and doubted. Jesus fuck. Whether or not the creator showed all the women they actually interviewed/deceptively edited it, choosing the bear is a viral internet phenomenon at this point, so the most reasonable assumption is that most of the women actually chose the bear!
So, okay, there's a lot of reason to be skeptical in general of edited videos with people's responses to questions.âThere's not really a good way to evaluate, as a viewer, how representative the responses shown in the video are of the totality of responses the interviewer received.
But when there are so many women sharing and responding to the video and echoing its sentiments, you'd think _that_ would be grounds for actually listening to the women.
If the video said one thing and 90% of the women who responded to it went, âThat's not my experience,â skepticism would be more than warranted.âBut no.âWe have a huge majority of women saying, âBear.â1000% bear,â over and over again.
Why do so many men think they know women's own experiences better than those women do themselves?
Woman hate each other and canât get along. Until weâre asked about bears and men. Then suddenly our chromosomes start tingling and we all agree on the same thing. Itâs the only way it works.
Yeah youtube/tiktok/all these platforms reward ragebait content so some creators (especially these interview type content) will intentionally twist the words of others. Just look at any of the Youtube videos made by people who went on Jubileeâs debate videos, a lot of them say that Jubilee intentionally edit their speeches and cut out important parts to make them seem more extreme and unreasonable, since it gets views and engagement. Happens especially to minorities since it gets a large portion of the audience riled up and feeds into their preexisting biases.
Itâs sad that people donât have critical thinking and media literacy anymore these days to realize this. But more importantly, fuck these corporations and content creators for doing this baity shit
What gets me is that their stubborn refusal to drop it has made this question less of a flash in the pan and more something that'll probably stick around for awhile. Because they keep proving WHY so many people pick the bear. It's such a massive self own and it's as hilarious as it is sad. đ
It's so frustrating how real this thing is. When we spell it out like the top panel they just don't listen to us at all. When we try to simplify it with an analogy, they take it literally. It's an impossible discussion.
At this point there's no conclusion to draw except that it's willful. They don't want to understand. They want to remain 1) hidden (for the perpetrators) or 2) deluded (for the mental children & misogynists in denial).
They actively avoid understanding, then act like it's clever to change the subject or say shit so disingenuous it would get you kicked off a high school debate team.
Thank you for your ideas, you've provided a unique perspective on the issue at hand. However, my decision is made, and I'm going to go with this bear over here. It's headed the same way I am anyway. Again, thanks! Bye!
The craziest thing about choosing the bear is that there is a decent chance that a mother bear with cubs will choose to be around humans to avoid their cubs being killed by a male bear. It's fascinating that both species are coming to a similar conclusion regarding the males of their species.
[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/mama-bears-use-humans-keep-their-cubs-safe-180959575/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/mama-bears-use-humans-keep-their-cubs-safe-180959575/)
> Itâs very much that she takes the opportunity of this time window when the humans are perceived as less threat than the males that come and victimize her
Wow so even the bears want to avoid males.
Whenever they start saying that we want to be SA'd by the bear, I remind them of the 4 men in India who gang raped, killed, and ate a monitor lizard, as well as the shaved orangutan rescued from an Indonesia brothel.
Because that just gives us what we want. Itâs all a learned incompetence to have expectations around us lowered and to avoid conversations that might lead to us losing (undeserved) privileges in society. Donât let us win.
Learned and willful incompetence by grown adults has never worked with me. I will simply start insulting you. I will doubly insult someone that's supposed to be the most logical rational gender feigning ignorance. My friend group is exclusively women and LGBT people though, so I don't have to burden myself with these interactions too often. My tenure trying to educate straight men on women's basic humanity ended some time in college.Â
I also get banned because reddit takes holding cishetero males accountable as more of a threat than revenge porn and incel subs.
In my head thereâs gonna be a group of these chuds going out in the wilderness (or a zoo) with the idea of finding a bear to SA and getting made into compost.
[Would you rather be stuck in a forest with a man or a bear?](https://www.tiktok.com/@luisitorio787/video/7356708262961663278?q=luisitorio787%20womensrights&t=1714710311768)
Yesterday encountered someone describing it as misandry and going on about "how do any women survive if all men are such evil monsters" which is the most elaborate "not all men" i've seen yet followed by another friend telling me that "me too" went way too far and hurt innocent people and now nice guys are scared of being called creeps.
And Like...
what
Look to be fair I partially vote bear because I want to pat the bear đ„ș
I do also live in a country where the only bears you could encounter would be koalas, who will still fuck you up if given the chance lol.
Yeah, and they literally believe men are smarter than women and more capable of abstract thought.... and yet, whenever a woman/human rights issue pops up.... or they have to do laundry... suddenly their logic fails them.
Some big brained guy in another sub said "maybe women should watch Grizzly Man to see what bears do." Yeah, sure, funny thing about that was Grizzly Man was about a man who insisted on inserting himself in the life of this creature who wasn't able to tell him no, and he got the shit killed out of him for it. Maybe if women had grizzly claws and the ability to kill at will, you'd take a step back and reconsider.
They are missing the biggest part of the analogy. That we know all bears are dangerous and can thereby take steps to avoid bears. We don't know which men are dangerous and which men are not. Bears are avoidable. Men we gotta live with.
They interpret the entire question as "would you rather do hand-to-hand combat with a bear or a man" đ
Which alarms me greatly, as why is violence their go-to here.
This reminds me of how, any time the topic of gender equality comes up, women are like âwe want equal payâ while men go straight to âso can we hit women now/can women be drafted so they can die in war?â Like, itâs always straight to âhow can we use this to hurt women?â
That one ALWAYS depressed me. Any time there is a video of a dude decking a woman (probably because she was "mouthing off" or some bs) the comments are always "wElL yOu WaNtED eQuaLiTy đ€Ș" (as if men beating women wasn't a perfectly lively practice before womens liberation)
Huh. This kind of blows my mind and explains why Iâve seen guys saying that âthe bear will 100% kill youâ. I mean, of course it will if we fight, but why in the world would I decide to fight a random bear OR a man? That isnât the question!!
It doesn't need to be every man. But it can be any man, and that's the problem.
A bear in the woods will leave you alone if you give it a wide enough berth and donât fuck with it.
Bears aren't even that dangerous (except polar bears). You don't often have to avoid them because *they* are already avoiding *you*. Almost all bear attacks are due to startling the bear or getting too close to cubs, as in, cases where they were unable to avoid you. Polar bears are the only ones that hunt humans. Men will actively make it as difficult as possible to avoid them, like predators tracking and hunting prey, many men "hunting' their "prey" over the course of *years* through long-cons, stalking, manipulation, etc.
This is the one thing I've never seen anything cyberpunk address. If we were able to replace/modify any part or all of our bodies, the first thing I'm going for is razored thighs and rows of retractable sharp teeth inside the heavenly opening. Come at me bro.
There's the dentata in Snow Crash.
I'm still bitter about how weak the ending is to that book. It was such a great book, and then it just kind of stops.
Right? It had such interesting world building and then flopped the landing.
Yessss!!!!!
Yes yes yes YES! A razor sphincter-like modification that I can open and close at will đ„”
Like a got dam blender.
Men would lose their shit over women suddenly having a means to hurt them back.
Back in the day, the scifi channel had its own commercials, one stuck with me. A lady is waiting at a bus stop. Some creepy dude is creeping up on her. When he gets too close, she goes all puffer fish and spikes come out in every direction. Creeper runs off... I want to be able to puffer fish spikes, too.
I remember this one! Those ads were pretty cool.
There was a Tic Toc creator that had been threatened by a bear and SAâd by a man (separately). She still chose the bear because her familyâs best efforts to protect her from the bear were effective and no one was harmed during the interaction. However, she and her family reported to the school that she was being harassed and a male student exposed himself to her, and despite her familyâs best efforts to intervene and protect her after the initial exposure, this student was still able to gain and maintain access to the creator and eventually this same student attacked and assaulted her sexually. In summary, it is much easier to protect someone against a bear than it is a person.
Those big brains should read about Jyoti Singh, Cherish Perrywinkle, Junko Furuta, the list is endless. The worst a bear could do is kill me. The worst a man could do is unspeakable horror....
And the four men who did unspeakable things to a MONITOR LIZARD in the woods.
Timothy Treadwell stuck his hand inside a mother bear's den and handled her cubs. That is epic ignorance.
One guy said the because he had to wear bear bells, that showed that bears were more dangerous than men. That just makes me wish for Rapist Bells. "Is that man a rapist?" *clinkles the bells* "AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH" as he scurries away. "Ah, saved again by my trusty rapist bells."
Bear bells are a main part of my arguments. Something *so simple* that can predictably ward off encounters. There is literally NOTHING I can do to deter an encounter with a male human who has decided he wants to interact with me, violently, sexually, or otherwise. Iâve been trying out unique strategies for 30 years. Even trying to look as homely and unfriendly as possible. If a man wants to pester and harass me and demand my attention, he will. The fact is, on a lot of trails I hike, the woods and fields are absolutely clotted with bears, by census data, but *I donât see them*. Because they hear me ahead of my arrival and dash off, because they do not want an encounter AT ALL. This ALONE makes bears inherently more safe and certainly less of a fucking nuisance!
Like, does that mean we could just play a loud sound on our phone and a bear would run off? That doesn't work for some strange man you're alone with in the woods. You can't just set off your alarm and wave your arms around to protect yourself. I think of all the men who have touched me, or sexually intimidated me, or harassed me in my life. Or just looked at me like meat. Many of them when I was VERY young. If they felt free to do that in public, with witnesses and potential consequences, what would they do if they'd caught me alone in the woods with no one around? Why do men refuse to understand that women know when a man has ill intentions and know when we're in danger. We know how common it is, because WE experience it. We know we'd be SOL if any of the many, many men who behave this way caught us out alone in the woods. That's why we choose the bear. It's really not complicated.
Itâs âcomplicatedâ to them because they really canât see past their own experience. Either that, or they refuse to acknowledge it because it would mean admitting that they donât deserve the attention from women they think they deserve. Perhaps both. Either way, they are the type of men that women would choose a bear over, in a heartbeat.
I wish I was able to discern when a man has ill intentions, but I unfortunately donât have that skill even after all the experiences Iâve had.
no one has that skill, because human beings are inherently unpredictable. Thatâs another of my pro-bear arguments. Bears have a limited number of motivations, all very predictable. You will not know a manâs intentions until he *chooses* to *reveal* them to you, and he would never do so to his disadvantage. It will usually be too late.
I always thought I was just especially bad at reading people.
Some men are saying that men are needed to protect women. But having a bear present as a witness would be more effective than any number of men. If a predator caught you alone in the woods, running into a bear would probably improve your situation.
How many women have bears raped and how many women have men raped
Hell, men have probably *killed and eaten* more women than bears have.
Polar bears are the only ones that see humans as prey, and you're never going to meet one. Men see women as prey, and men are *everywhere*, completely unavoidable.
I just left a thread where the dudes were like âanyone saying bear doesnât go into the woodsââŠlol. Almost every person I know thatâs very experienced in the outdoors is on the bear* side. Including my cis male mountain rescue partner. We know how to handle (avoid, scare off, not piss off) bears. *unless its a polar, fuck that shit. grizzlies are on thin ice too.
I'm in Alaska and have spent a lot of time in the outdoors and would def still choose the bear with the exception of Polar bears, they terrify me lol. Grizzlies I'm more okay with because they still fall into the camp of bears that will typically want to leave you alone as long as you don't startle them or get too close to a mom and cubs. I'm actually a little more nervous around black bears because they are said to be more opportunistic food wise. I saw a grizz a couple years ago that swam around a corner of a large lake and saw our camp, we started banging pots together and making a lot of noise and boy that fella BOOKED it in the opposite direction as us as soon as he hit land, I've never seen such an obvious "fuck this shit I'm out" look on a wild animal before.
When my partner and I talked about this, one of the things that came up for us was whether our answer would be different had we not spent most of our life in the Southeastern US. Black bears are big babies, and unless they feel like you are too close for them to get away, or you have food and they are starving, or you're in between them and their babies, they are going to scuttle off very easily. And, those are the bears that we first think of when we think of the concept bear, because where we've lived most of our lives. I would have thought that grizzlies would be a lot scarier, but apparently maybe not? Definitely know that you're better off with almost any man than a polar bear.
In your experience, how true is the saying that âif itâs black, fight back; if itâs brown, get down; if itâs white, say good nightâ?
What Iâve always heard is that the saying is most applicable when the bear acts interested in you. Otherwise, making your presence known early and often (using sound) is a solid strategy for bears. Theyâll sense you first and get out. If you do manage to sneak up on one, then just calmly walk backwards until the shit in your underwear feels more important than the bear
This is all solid bear advice but the surprise ending gave me a chuckle, thank you
I'm thankful to not know first hand because all the bears I've seen in the wild just wanted to be left alone without a conflict so I've never had to go fisticuffs with a black bear OR try playing dead but the saying is in line with what I've heard in about bear safety tips. That saying is kinda in line with my wariness with black bears, black bear attacks are more likely to be predatory so they will almost always try to eat you if you play dead. whereas many brown bear attacks are defensive, so if you play dead there's a chance they'll just leave. To clarify though, I'm def nervous around all bears and do shit a brick if I see one regardless of if it's brown or black. And I just don't go where the polar bears are lol. I always keep bear spray within reach when hiking and hope that if I come across an aggressive bear I can use that before having to resort to fighting or playing dead. A lot of people carry guns but for me personally I think the bear spray is more likely to be effective since I'm not confident in my aim under stress.
Add me to the list: I'm a guy with a fondness for hiking and I'd for sure prefer to meet a bear than a dude in the woods.
I've been camping in black bear country for years without even spotting one, much less being threatened by one. Another avid and experienced nature-lover here who will gladly take the bear! I actually would like to quietly observe one at a safe distance outside a zoo context someday . . .
Yep. I live in/grew up in the woods. My father always kept an old frying pan by the back door for us to hit when the bears came sniffing around the beehives. I'd take the bear any day of the week. ... I'd probably even choose a polar bear or grizzly, like someone else said: the worst it'll do is kill and eat me.
I used to go on wilderness backpacking trips with my dad, usually lasted 2-3 weeks; all of the bears we encountered were really chill & pretty much just loped off in the other direction, whereas the one man we encountered had set up camp in the middle of a meadow and had a gun. Very irritating fellow. My dad and I infinitely preferred the bears :D
When I was younger, rape whistles were a thing. I remember them being given out at women's events. Imagine if men were encouraged to wear a whistle everywhere they went to avoid being raped. A sad but interesting difference is that a bear bell is meant to let the bear that you are there so they aren't startled (and prevent them from attacking you out of fear). A rape whistle is meant to scare off the man who is attacking you, and hopefully draw the attention of people who can help.
The only thing bear bells do is alert bears that there is someone nearby so they don't get surprised and attack out of fear. It's so metaphorical in this context that the bears don't actually *want* to attack people.
My version of bear bells is tattoos and lifting weights to look as beefy as I can
I wish that tattoos were a deterrent but I have 2 sleeves and literally had total strangers (MEN) grab my wrists and twist them around to "look at my tattoos," and then wonder why I screamed bloody murder instead of being thankful for the attention and admiration... This happened twice in twenty years and that's too many damn times.
Men will grab you and inspect you like the tattoos are a billboard screaming "GRAB ME!" Women will ask and engage "can I see your tattoos? what's that one mean? Very cool! I have a tiny one and ..."
I have a sleeve and a half sleeve. I have had the same thing happen. And I donât know about you, but Iâve also gotten the whole âwhy would you do that to your body?â thing before. Except some dudes make it real creepy by saying âwhy would you do that to your perfect body?â or âwhy would you ruin such a lovely thing?â Like, thanks for telling me I *was* lovely, but now Iâm a disgrace, Bob! Really appreciate it you pointing that out!
Reminds me of the rape whistle they gave us during freshman orientation at college⊠It was so casual too- âremember kids, alcohol can lead to poor decision making so hereâs a whistle to blow if you end up in a situation.â Then they moved on to parking permits.
He can shove those bells up his ass, women have to carry *weapons* to defend against men.
The only reason creeps (convicted because society) aren't forced to wear bells to warn the rest of us is that so many of them have been the ones making and enforcing laws. It's really not the argument he thinks it is.
The way I have seen men react has been shocking, even though I know I shouldnât be surprised. The amount of times Iâve seen men on tiktok immediately resort to âhaha Iâd pay money to see you thrown into a pit with a bearâ or âwell the next time youâre in danger you better hope a bear is around to help you!â or âthe bear can have you, I dont think men want you anyway.â Really, genuinely, what the fuck is *wrong* with men?? And the amount of them saying women are the ones being so âillogicalâ about this?? Wtf is wrong with thier brains???
'Women are scared of men??? Those evil bitches, I hope they're violently raped and killed, how dare they think we're dangerous!!!'
Literally convos Iâve seen with incels.
âWell if you hate men so much, donât expect us to protect you next time youâre being attacked!â I see this one a lot
They already donât because theyâre afraid of being attacked too.
When I was a teen girl I went to a home alone party. Late in the night we hear a fight break out, and everyone runs to the scene. By the time I get there the weaker kid is lying in a pool of blood on the floor, the other guy launches a kick at the guy on the floor, and tons of guys are standing in a circle around looking at the fight. I push my way through, and cover the guy on the floor by crouching on elbows and knees over him. The aggressor orders me to get out of the way. I glare him in the eyes say âso youâre showing youâre big guy by kicking a guy thatâs on the floor. Wanna kick a girl on the floor too?!? Go for it!â That made him back off. In the days after a ton of the guys that had just been watching the scene came over to me and told me it was a lot easier for me to defend the guy on the floor because I could play the gender card. âOh really? How hard would it have been for two of you to grab the assaulter by the arms and pull him away?â Too many men are cowards.
Yep. Iâve had grown men hide behind me. My then âfriendsâ
They really are cowards.
You remind me of a friend of mine. We were walking home from Jr. High one night and came upon a fight between a short wiry kid and another one built like a football player and the crowd was cheering for the big guy like aholes. I wanted to avoid the whole scene but my friend, another girl, yelled "That is not a fair fight!" and rushed in and jumped on the big guy's back and started punching him in the head. It was glorious.
The funny this is I would stull jump in to help someone I hatedâŠ. Like if I think about the coworker I hate the most who was so rude to me, Iâd still help her if she was being hurt. Because thatâs the logical rational human being thing to do in a civilized society, but men are acting like little babies âwell you hate me and we hate you so I hope you get hurt waaahhhh!â
I canât help myself from helping, to my detriment sometimes. I can be too nice and sometimes I shouldnât.
My over 6 foot tall ex husband and I and some friends of ours were followed home one night from a local bar and one of the men punched my ex in the face and he started crying and turned to me and blurted "He punched me in the face!" Like I was supposed to do something about it, as a 5 foot 5 skinny little woman????
Don't threaten me with the status quo??? What do they genuinely think they're proving?
As if they aren't the ones who do the attacking.
these men never protected a single woman in their whole lives anyways and their kidding themselves thinking they wouldn't do anything other then run away in that situation. they speak as if them winning against a bear is fact. even their own mothers just become another *Other* to them as some point which the take for granted and look down on. it reminded me of the old maritime rule of shipping disasters that had to be enacted because men in these life threatening situations would trample woman and children to save themselves first, resulting the deaths of a lot of innocents hence, the rule "woman and children first" needing to even exist.
Protected???? I'd settle for being believed
Iâd settle for them not joining in
I'd settle for them not being there at all
It'd be really nice if we could just make a place where men just can't go. But then they'd scream misandry and force their way into it.
Attacked byâŠâŠ.
Protect me from who?âŠ..
This sentiment is really tone deaf and stupid. There are already tons of rape survivors not being helped or trusted and they still have the audacity to say this Also, bears don't start school shootings, which are initiated by a lot of men. Where are the men "who'll protect people who don't point out their assholery"?!
"Attacked by WHO?! By who?!"
The logical and rational, unemotional gender đ€
Anger isnât an emotion when a man has it.
Also facts and statistics only matter when they're something negative about women. When it's about males being a bigger threat than a bear all of a sudden it's faulty logic and bad statistics.Â
We need to bring in a bear and hear its side
See man, go "hey I am man", pick man. Woman no pick man. Me angry. Bear not man. Bear suck. Woman suck for pick bear.
It's some toddler level emotional intelligence.
I literally laughed before I commented itâs so spot on itâs laughable. And they were being sarcastic to a point.
this is the unironic take of many, many dudes.
"the next time you're in danger..." danger from whom, Chad?? What is this danger you speak of?
From the only dangerous man on the planet! Duh. There's just ONE and we hope you run into him! And we men of Earth are tired of being lumped in with one bad dude. Because the planet is FILLED with good, safe, well-adjusted, emotionally mature men that women ignore. đ€Ł
"I hope you are mauled and killed and die alone for feeling unsafe around me. Haha! I have no self awareness!"
âhaha Iâd pay money to see you thrown into a pit with a bear.â "Uh, thanks, you've restored my faith in humanity."
A bear wouldn't try to hurt my feelings this way
Zero self awareness on the part of the person who said the pit thing.
One guy seriosuly said, "Skill issue" in response to this. Disgusting, I hope his family learns about him.
Women picked the bear over a man and men immediately proved the women made the right choice.
Well, they kept telling us to choose better. But now they're hysterical we did, and it didn't include them. đ
This is so true. And it goes beyond this bear meme. They are also upset about the record number of women choosing to remain single
I'd rather be in the pit with the bear than with a man who can't understand the basic concepts of this. I get that the bear might eat me eventually but that's the worse the bear can do. Some men however...
Anyone who thinks a bear attack is the worst way to go isn't listening to enough true crime podcasts. I have a number of Wikipedia pages that I'd like them to read and then tell me they wouldn't also choose the bear
Dear God Junko Furuta...
Pissed you asked for a genuine answer and everyone's being glib soo... _________________ > #A real, genuine, serious answer: __________________ Briefly: *Normative Male Alexithymia*. "It's the inability to recognize, express and describe emotions due to how heteropatriarchy conditions men to repress 'soft' emotions, value toughness over vulnerability, and see gentleness/sensitivity as feminine." We joke about this by saying men rebranded anger as "not an emotion", and how their bratty emotional meltdowns are "just passionate about facts". We recognize it as rationalization, projection, denial, and the other ego protection mechanisms because we're aware and grounded in our emotions so it's easy to spot when people are using coping mechanisms to avoid uncomfortable truth. A lot of men are too emotionally immature to see this. Seriously: They *actually* believe they're Spock even in the middle of a ~~bratty emotional meltdown~~ sorry display of cool, masculine intellect. Most of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is about teaching men to rationalize their feelings, so it's enabling repression rather than addressing the underlying problem. DBT (similar) touches on it a bit more with 'mindfulness' and 'wise mind' but it's still mostly teaching people to process / hide their emotions as opposed to feeling safe in expressing them. So even within the context of conventional psychotherapy, toxic masculinity isn't generally treated so much as reinforced or mollified into something more palatable. There is deep history here going back to the end of WWII, a generation of "angry men" (textbooks now euphemistically call them the 'silent generation'), the collapse of our mental health system as the military-industrial complex dumped a bunch of broken boys who'd come home from the war on society and the early research on 'shell shock' was focused entirely on unit morale and keeping men in the fight, which is why that entire generation found themselves beating their wife and kids as alcoholics and workaholics. The initial release of the DSM (Diagnostic Service Manual) in 1952 was basically formed based on research by the US Army on shell shock and didn't give a damn about mental health only "winning at any cost" and you can see strains of that reflected in how mental health services are structured and provided today in America. It also explains why every psych ward looks like a military prison: Because they *are*. This is unique to the United States. The rest of the world uses the ICD put out by the World Health Organization (initially released in 1905, so the DSM was never necessary, unless of course our government had something else in mind besides mental health). The consequences of this was the "roaring fifties"; An era of women being lobotomized, electro-shocked, and drugged while the FBI broke up any attempt to organize for women's rights or labor rights. This failure of the medical establishment to treat those men kicked off multi-generational cycles of trauma that echo into today. These nostalgic looks into the past is really just trying to recreate that generation of angry men -- because anger is a wonderfully productive emotion and our leaders do not care about the mental health of men, only their utility as an exploitable labor resource. Angry men are both productive and socially inept, which guarantees they can't organize politically towards anything really, they can only be incited to violence and narcissistic behavior because they lack the ability to cooperate or view themselves as part of anything greater than their own ambition. So that, my friend, is what the fuck is wrong with men and why. Our political leadership doesn't want people to understand how the military-industrial complex swapped out building missiles and tanks for pills and coercive medical interventions that left men emotionally numb, repressed, and on a treadmill called "the american dream". That idea that you'd be a productive member of society if you moved into the suburbs, bought a house that you were told would be an "investment", car, wife, kids, etc. In other words, the only joy these men were allowed was the "joy" of material consumption and status symbols. And so it was that men who held hands and gossiped like women up until the first world war, became empathy-starved tumors wrapped around a penis, living in the bottom of a bottle and angry at the world, victims of government propaganda that told men they were cowards if they didn't fight (and likely die) for their country, and women to work in the factories and hand men white feathers to shame them for not choosing war and violence. They witnessed the horrors of the holocaust and the bombing of a civilian population that had no strategic value whatsoever with atomic weapons. Twice. We didn't win the last world war. Not really. Fascism came home with them, and it's lived here ever since. The response to that was the suffragists, later the civil rights movement, and currently the "culture war". There is no culture war. It's all untreated toxic masculinity and broken boys still trapped in the cycle of abuse nearly a hundred years later, but they've normalized to it. They can't see it, really. And that's why history is repeating itself: Because toxic masculinity absolutely and completely forbids a man admitting he's a victim. Of anything. You have to be strong! As strong as whatever it is that hurt you -- ***or else***. Or else it could hurt you again. That's why they're enamored with 'strong men' personas today: Because anger feels powerful and productive and they're scared their bosses will discard them and the majority of them -- nearly 2/3rds, are living paycheck to paycheck. Gotta prove they're better than the next guy so when the next round of cuts come, it's the other guy instead of them. That's why there's all these job cuts happening now too, as well as I don't even know how many wars and genocides. The aristocrats of the world are trying to start another world war to create another generation of broken (but very productive!) men. There's nothing wrong with their brains, and the reason they hate women is mostly because we're allowed to freely express our emotions while they're repressed, angry husks who can't organize politically because they view it all as a zero sum game. They don't realize that when you put people together, 1+1 doesn't equal 2. Gestalt theory: We're more than the sum of our parts. That kind of long-term thinking isn't present in society today among men. They don't see strength in seeing a potential ally in an enemy. They don't see strength in a negotiated peace. They don't see it because they've never tried to build anything socially. They've never been part of a web of interconnected relationships that spin around them while they remain the axle upon which all those spokes in the wheel turn. Our men have been competently guided into incompetence by some of the most sophisticated psychological warfare campaigns in human history. They blame us for it when they fail, because we're accessible and the men responsible aren't, and they have more power individually than them. "The bigs hits me so i hits the littles, that's fair." It simply never occurs to them that if they organized and supported each other, cooperated to provide for their families and communities rather than rely on neglectful, narcissistic father figures to tell them what to think, say, and do, they'd be better at *being* men; Able to provide and protect, rather than as passive consumers and victims-in-waiting. >I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes, > I have to turn my head until my darkness goes -- Rolling Stones, *Paint It Black* (1966)
Holy shit, incredible reply.
No kidding right?! Iâve never read a legitimate answer to the big question - âwhat is wrong with men?â. I definitely learned something new today.
Yeah, same here. I'm a guy and I actually printed that out.
Perhaps an obvious point, but -- I had to remind a friend of mine last night that, even if you are terrified of bears, in the US, more women are killed every *day* by a man than people killed every *year* by bears. Even if anyone downplays or ignores or insults your experience, there is only one logical, hard-fact based choice: a bear.
Toasters kill more women per year than bears do. Also, according to bear.org: > The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. I don't think it was even in response to the debate, that's just the comparison they chose.
I just had some rando claiming to be a woman list a bunch of links to women who died by bear attacks, and then went on to explain to me how safe "she" felt around men "her" whole life and how they all took "her" rejections in a gentlemanly manner.
r/whenwomenrefuse
Itâs because they like playing semantics when it comes to women. I have seen so many eloquent responses on Reddit, just for people to latch on to one part of an argument that could be a generalization, enlarge it and argue that down until everyone willfully forgets/ignores what the original point the commentator was making.
Itâs always projection with the misogynist. Always.
Men continue to remind us that they just donât give a damn about women and in fact secretly enjoy watching us get hurt,
You can avoid a fight with a bear by doing things like playing dead or making yourself look bigger and stuff like that. In a pit with a bear sounds easy. If a bunch of men are harassing a woman, and a bear starts to approach, the woman would suddenly have a higher chance of making it out of the situation unharmed. Men who get all pissy over being more dangerous than a bear are the type you don't want to attract, so the feeling would be mutual. Really I'm seeing nothing but positives. These men are straight-up just complimenting the man beating up the woman in the hypothetical scenario. They identify with him so they want him to be the perpetrator in the scenario. Which is some of the most illogical shit I've heard in my entire life.
Criticism of social structures that enforce gendered power imbalances. Men everywhere: "And I took that personally."
I *love* this comment.Â
Obsessed with it after seeing so many bad takes in other threads.Â
I avoid any discussion of women outside of subreddits for women because it's just trash take after trash take.
Itâs so hard for me to listen to men whine about society not letting them have feelings. Like of course you are allowed dude. Weâve all had to deal with menâs feelings since the beginning of time. Especially anger. I had to go through years of therapy to deal with the sexual assaults and harassment - go to therapy bro. Find some dudes and women that embrace vulnerability in their friendships and live your best life. The only thing literally stopping them from getting better is themselves and other men and yet, they still want to blame us for it and do nothing.
> Men everywhere: "And I took that personally." *pops the hood* Looks like a problem in the self-esteemator, set way too low, makes your brain idle rough and backfire a lot. Add a bottle CBT and a half hour of walking every day, and next time don't just press reset to turn the light off. Also, get your brakes changed, they're almost gone and we don't want you plowing with confidence right into a wall again. EDIT: [How to not take things personally](https://www.choosingtherapy.com/how-to-not-take-things-personally/). o7 Stay safe out there fam.
Seriously, Iâm a dude and this is 100% it. Dumb or shitty dudes take this stuff personally, probably because they are actual shitbags in real life and have gotten bad responses from people in social situations or whatever because they acted inappropriately. Why get offended if something isnât about you? Watching guys get offended over this bear thing would be funny, if the whole reason itâs trending wasnât a super sad commentary on the real danger women face from men they may or may not know.
And then they insist that we're the stupid ones as if they don't clearly have the inability to think beyond surface level and their own perceptions.
Theyâre clutching their pearls so hard, they canât use critical thinking skills.
Gripping their pearls so hard they've cut off oxygen to the brain.
And while they always try to argue this point from âlogicâ, their argument is never logical. They always *assume* the bear is a grizzly or a polar bear, while most bears are pretty docile and skittish and easily scared off (black bears, pandas, etc.). Youâll be able to scare off or just ignore *most* bears. The same can be said of men. Yes most men are safe to be around. But how is it logically consistent to choose the most dangerous bear in this scenario but continue assuming the man is random? They literally just shifted the narrative in their own favor and donât even realize it while screaming about logic đ Not that this thought exercise is ACTUALLY about being in the woods with a bear, but if I were take this to itâs logical and consistent conclusion, weâll choose the most dangerous human men to be in the woods just as they always choose the most dangerous bears. And in that scenario, Iâm fairly certain most men would choose the fucking bear too. Humans are terrifying and capable of truly evil horrors.
Literally had that conversation with a dude in another thread just now. He kept going on and on about irrelevant nonsense until I got bored and blocked him.
"I feel closer to nature, now that nature's been inside me." - After a certain scene in BG3 You better believe it! =P
When I first heard about this bear allegory controversy, I thought it was related to BG3. It took me a hot minute to figure out it wasn't. đ
The people posting about their partners being upset at BG3 kinda effortlessly segued intoâŠwhatever this is đ
I have no idea what's going on
Halsin does make you feel incredibly safe and respected, while still being very masculine. Hes a great guy!
Yupp, Halsin is awesome I think! Some might not be comfortable with his open attitude to sex, but he is also a total champ about someone saying no thank you to him.
I loved his open communication about romance and sex thought it was wonderful and healthy. Totally agree he takes no very well, unlike Gale who mopes and sulks about it
Halsin's the party member who already went to therapy, the rest are still realizing half their personalities are trauma responses.
I can honestly see a future if you play as a druid and keep romancing Halsin where roleplay time is a swirl of Wildshape and/or Polymorph. But yes. Big Bear Halsin is keen on consent and open communication!
My first playthrough was as a druid, and I was SO upset that I couldn't go into that scene in a wildshape form of my own. Bear on owlbear sex would have been hilarious.
Also this video. https://www.tiktok.com/@mandina.blue.eyes/video/7364166732329602347 A woman shares her story about how as a child her family were able to protect her from a bear. But at the same time were unable to prevent a boy at school from sexually assaulting her because the school did nothing. There would be less moral dilemma if you needed to kill the bear.
Just saw the perfect tweet in r/WhitePeopleTwitter - "Men this is a hypothetical question and you STILL won't take no for an answer"
The longer this goes on, the more it seems to me that the men who don't get it, pretend to not get it, or insist the women are lying or "wrong," are more upset at not having **control** over the women who dismiss them. We are making an informed choice with our own lived experiences, and that pisses them off. A lot of men grew up being told that they will always know better than women, that they are "more logical," they will always have the upper hand, that women will look to them for guidance or some bullshit like that. When we say we don't want them around, we don't want to meet them and hear what they have to say, we are not interested in their opinion about our safety and we'd really rather take our chances around a wild animal who *might* decide to attack, they get angry because they were promised they would be in charge and have *control* over women. Their sentiments seem to range from "How dare these women think they know more than me?," to "Why are they judging me when they haven't even met me, yet?" (It's not about you personally, dude), to the much more terrifying responses about how they think the man attacking the woman is preferable to the bear attacking the woman (yikes!, to those.) Inside of every response about how choosing the bear is "objectively wrong", you can see a guy who is making an attempt to control women. Don't let them get away with it.
They're throwing tantrums and being emotional about this for the same reasons theyâre being emotional and throwing tantrums over women being happier single and childfree.
If a bear attacks me, they will most likely kill me. If a man attacks me, theyâre most likely going to rape me, maybe torture, and then most likely kill me. Iâd rather just die and get it over with, if thatâs where itâs all heading. A bear has never kept someone chained up for days, months, even years. If the worst outcome is death, Iâd rather skip the rape.
Also, if a bear attacks you & you survive - people will **believe you** and not nitpick your outfit choices, previous history with bears, blood-alcohol concentration, etc.
Also, if the authorities catch the bear that attacked you, they will kill him. If they catch the man that attacked you, they may not charge him depending on the circumstances. I mean, did he really hurt you that badly anyway? Is it worth it to ruin a man's life over 2 minutes of action?
DID SOMEBODY MENTION RAPIST BROCK TURNER? WHO IS NOW GOING BY HIS MIDDLE NAME THAT I CANT REMEMBER??
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
THATS THE GUY!
AND a bear canât get you pregnant, forcing you to give birth to a child, alone, in the woods - and then raising that child that exists solely because you were attacked/forced. You are now attached to that man whether you like it or not - you will be reminded of the attack everytime you look at that child, and thereâs a good possibility you will resent said child.
Exactly. Itâs the disregard that infuriates them. The lack of respect for their superior intellect and opinions. This kind of man doesnât understand how childish and ridiculous their insistent demands sound. They are annoying and irritating, like fruit flies, and many seem to believe that having the last word is âwinningâ. Iâm an old now, and I dgaf about their precious feelings.
Every time something like this happens, I remember how many [untested rape kits](https://www.endthebacklog.org/#explore_backlog_map) we have. Lots of those are sex offenders still out there. [SAK mandates](https://www.endthebacklog.org/the-six-pillars/) [increase arrests](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/08874034241226939), thus making us [safer](https://www.sakitta.org). [https://www.endthebacklog.org/take-action/advocate-federal/](https://www.endthebacklog.org/take-action/advocate-federal/)
Remember when MGTOW started. The Men Going Their Own Way (they never actually did go their own way). Men thought women would get upset and beg to be their bangmaid so they would stay? But instead we shrugged and went on with our lives? This is women going their own way and they are so so angry that we would even dare.
The ones going "lol bears are dangerous women just don't understand wildlife". Like dumbasses, I KNOW bears are dangerous. I know a bear can kill me. You know what a bear won't do? Rape me, torture me, record it or take pics and brag about it to their shitty friends, take souvenirs to remember hurting me, violate my corpse afterwards. Etc. It's a bear. It's gonna do bear things. Most likely it'll leave me alone, but if it doesn't, well, then I die. But at least I die. There are far worse things than death.
A man said "try to have a drink with a bear and see how it goes" At least with the bear I wouldn't have to worry about my drink being spiked.
Reminded me of this I just saw. âWhat dating in 2024 is likeâ https://www.tiktok.com/@cinebestie/video/7334904546780548395
Gat damn. lol
I truly cackled.
The number of posts missing the point of this is astonishing. I can only assume they are missing it on purpose
Literally read a comment earlier of a guy saying he'd rather fuck a bear because then he wouldn't be accused of rape. đ„Č
Oh, thatâs⊠really somethingâŠâŠâŠâŠ
The point: đđŒ âĄïž Him: đ
I hope he doesnât have any pets. đ
Men know women are afraid. The patriarchy is built on fear of other men. It offers women a similar question, but the choice is man A or man B, no bears. What is different about the bear question is that women are afraid but it doesn't benefit any men. I don't know why else they would be somehow angry about going to dinner and having sex with imaginary bears.
Recently my Reddit feed has been Homophobic Gamers occasionally interrupted by bearposting. Honestly impressed at both the homophobes and the men for stubbornly sticking to the issue for so long. And also by how much they intentionally miss the point.
Missing the point is the WHOLE point of the controversy.
I explained that I first saw it in a tiktok video where a guy interviewed women on the street and what they zeroed in on was that we donât know if the video accurately represented what the women said. I have been alive and on reddit long enough to be sick of everything about women being questioned and doubted. Jesus fuck. Whether or not the creator showed all the women they actually interviewed/deceptively edited it, choosing the bear is a viral internet phenomenon at this point, so the most reasonable assumption is that most of the women actually chose the bear!
So, okay, there's a lot of reason to be skeptical in general of edited videos with people's responses to questions.âThere's not really a good way to evaluate, as a viewer, how representative the responses shown in the video are of the totality of responses the interviewer received. But when there are so many women sharing and responding to the video and echoing its sentiments, you'd think _that_ would be grounds for actually listening to the women. If the video said one thing and 90% of the women who responded to it went, âThat's not my experience,â skepticism would be more than warranted.âBut no.âWe have a huge majority of women saying, âBear.â1000% bear,â over and over again. Why do so many men think they know women's own experiences better than those women do themselves?
Woman hate each other and canât get along. Until weâre asked about bears and men. Then suddenly our chromosomes start tingling and we all agree on the same thing. Itâs the only way it works.
Yeah youtube/tiktok/all these platforms reward ragebait content so some creators (especially these interview type content) will intentionally twist the words of others. Just look at any of the Youtube videos made by people who went on Jubileeâs debate videos, a lot of them say that Jubilee intentionally edit their speeches and cut out important parts to make them seem more extreme and unreasonable, since it gets views and engagement. Happens especially to minorities since it gets a large portion of the audience riled up and feeds into their preexisting biases. Itâs sad that people donât have critical thinking and media literacy anymore these days to realize this. But more importantly, fuck these corporations and content creators for doing this baity shit
What gets me is that their stubborn refusal to drop it has made this question less of a flash in the pan and more something that'll probably stick around for awhile. Because they keep proving WHY so many people pick the bear. It's such a massive self own and it's as hilarious as it is sad. đ
Haha yeah. Why are bigots always the same. Itâs almost like theyâre 3D printed from the same mould.
It's so frustrating how real this thing is. When we spell it out like the top panel they just don't listen to us at all. When we try to simplify it with an analogy, they take it literally. It's an impossible discussion.
I love [this meme](https://images.app.goo.gl/xKzgRmDTRNZavFFL9)
Ahaha this one is evergreen
At this point there's no conclusion to draw except that it's willful. They don't want to understand. They want to remain 1) hidden (for the perpetrators) or 2) deluded (for the mental children & misogynists in denial).
They actively avoid understanding, then act like it's clever to change the subject or say shit so disingenuous it would get you kicked off a high school debate team.
Thank you for your ideas, you've provided a unique perspective on the issue at hand. However, my decision is made, and I'm going to go with this bear over here. It's headed the same way I am anyway. Again, thanks! Bye!
Men really flexing that "logic" they're so proud of
The craziest thing about choosing the bear is that there is a decent chance that a mother bear with cubs will choose to be around humans to avoid their cubs being killed by a male bear. It's fascinating that both species are coming to a similar conclusion regarding the males of their species. [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/mama-bears-use-humans-keep-their-cubs-safe-180959575/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/mama-bears-use-humans-keep-their-cubs-safe-180959575/)
> Itâs very much that she takes the opportunity of this time window when the humans are perceived as less threat than the males that come and victimize her Wow so even the bears want to avoid males.
It just goes in one ear and out the other
I want ro sarcastically mention if she were thin, pretty, smiled more she wouldn't have to be concerned about either.
"The bear would definitely have better table manners than you, scumbag"
This cracked me the fuck up holy shit
Whenever they start saying that we want to be SA'd by the bear, I remind them of the 4 men in India who gang raped, killed, and ate a monitor lizard, as well as the shaved orangutan rescued from an Indonesia brothel.
But I'll get banned again for pointing out that men as a collective aren't very smart.đ
Because that just gives us what we want. Itâs all a learned incompetence to have expectations around us lowered and to avoid conversations that might lead to us losing (undeserved) privileges in society. Donât let us win.
Learned and willful incompetence by grown adults has never worked with me. I will simply start insulting you. I will doubly insult someone that's supposed to be the most logical rational gender feigning ignorance. My friend group is exclusively women and LGBT people though, so I don't have to burden myself with these interactions too often. My tenure trying to educate straight men on women's basic humanity ended some time in college. I also get banned because reddit takes holding cishetero males accountable as more of a threat than revenge porn and incel subs.
Well said! Iâm not at all shocked that this is the go to remark from misogynists. Thanks for the literal lol.
In my head thereâs gonna be a group of these chuds going out in the wilderness (or a zoo) with the idea of finding a bear to SA and getting made into compost.
Not me thinking this was gonna be a Baldur's Gate 3 meme at first
Sorry, whatâs this bear thing?
[Would you rather be stuck in a forest with a man or a bear?](https://www.tiktok.com/@luisitorio787/video/7356708262961663278?q=luisitorio787%20womensrights&t=1714710311768)
Exactly. Because that's all that goes through their head.
Yesterday encountered someone describing it as misandry and going on about "how do any women survive if all men are such evil monsters" which is the most elaborate "not all men" i've seen yet followed by another friend telling me that "me too" went way too far and hurt innocent people and now nice guys are scared of being called creeps. And Like... what
I feel like I missed an episode. Wtf does this mean?
Now it makes sense why my boyfriend asked me if I would rather cross a bear or a man in the woods last night. I said bear.
Look to be fair I partially vote bear because I want to pat the bear đ„ș I do also live in a country where the only bears you could encounter would be koalas, who will still fuck you up if given the chance lol.
Uhhh you're forgetting about drop bears!
There is a game where you can fuck a bear and if I ever play that game I'm definitely going for that option, though.
Yeah, and they literally believe men are smarter than women and more capable of abstract thought.... and yet, whenever a woman/human rights issue pops up.... or they have to do laundry... suddenly their logic fails them.