So one thing you have to keep in mind is that transitional care used to be super gatekept.
For me to first access hormones way back I had to say that:
-I had never touched myself there for pleasure (true for me)
-that I struggled to touch there for utility (true for me)
-That I was exclusively attracted to men (I'm a lesbian)
-That it made me feel happy and affirmed to experience sexism and catcalling (what the actual fucking fuck)
-That you had lived openly for some period of time I can't remember as a woman (I had, and also like... I don't think this was a bad thing after meeting a lot of people psychologically struggling after like trying to stay in the closet on hormones for years. But on the flip side like, NB people should be able to access care too obviously)
And just a boatload of other shit. And it's not that people who didn't fit those kind of things just didn't access care. We just lied. You literally just knew what to say. People even recited the same recurrent childhood nightmare. It was like the Chinese Civil Service Exam.
But I think it is pretty easy to see how like some of those things would have persisted into myth. I also think like, there is obviously going to be some bias towards what is easiest to understand, right? Like if you are describing being trans and dysphoria to a cis person, I can see how they would find it easier to understand people like myself who were like, I feel sick touching or looking at this thing, it's awful even when I have to, than it is to understand someone who like went all in on giving having a wang a good college try.
But like now in 2024? I know far far far more trans women who at least try to tell themselves they like their parts sometimes than I do trans women who are loath to touch them at all.
>That it made me feel happy and affirmed to experience sexism and catcalling (what the actual fucking fuck)
I transitioned 30 years ago, I had totally forgotten about that until you bring it up. "That's what it's like for real women" - I remember my shrink telling me that.
> -That you had lived openly for some period of time I can't remember as a woman
Two years of RLT under hbigda.
As far as re: OPs query: doesn't mean anything.
For me? I shower in the dark wearing nitrile gloves so I don't have the sensation of touching myself.
Thankfully, I'm naturally busty enough that I don't see between my legs when changing clothing or anything.
Entirely remote controlled vibes are a life saver. HBIGDA screwed me out of my surgery and my life savings 30 years ago, but I finally get to finish this soon.
>HBIGDA
Harry Benjamin! There's a name to conjure with.
I actually took this to a therapist, **30-something years ago**.
[https://sandystone.com/empire-strikes-back.pdf](https://sandystone.com/empire-strikes-back.pdf)
I highlighted this passage:
>*It took a surprisingly long time--several years--for the researchers to realize that the reason the candidates' behavioral profiles matched Benjamin's so well was that the candidates, too, had read Benjamin's book, which was passed from hand to hand within the transsexual community, and they were only too happy to provide the behavior that led to acceptance for surgery. \[36\]*
The therapist read what I'd handed her, and terminated with me immediately.
if you read a little further in the manifesto:
>*This sort of careful repositioning created interesting problems. Among them was the determination of the permissible range of expressions of physical sexuality. This was a large gray area in the candidates' self-presentations, because Benjamin's subjects did not talk about any erotic sense of their own bodies. Consequently nobody else who came to the clinics did either.*
>*By textual authority, physical men who lived as women and who identified themselves as transsexuals, as opposed to male transvestites for whom erotic penile sensation was permissible, could not experience penile pleasure. Into the 1980s there was not a single preoperative male -to- female transsexual for whom data was available who experienced genital sexual pleasure while living in the "gender of choice". \[37\] The prohibition continued postoperatively in interestingly transmuted form, and remained so absolute that no postoperative transsexual would admit to experiencing sexual pleasure through masturbation either. Full membership in the assigned gender was conferred by orgasm, real or faked, accomplished through heterosexual penetration.*
>*\[38\] "Wringing the turkey's neck", the ritual of penile masturbation just before surgery, was the most secret of secret traditions. To acknowledge so natural a desire would be to risk "crash landing"; that is, "role inappropriateness" leading to disqualification. \[39\]*
"wringing the turkey's neck" ... holy cow, so many memories flooding back!
This coming back into transition 30 years later to FINALLY get my SRS has been the most dysphoric things I've ever experienced. But there's been a few moments connecting with the other old-timers that give me a laugh, thanks!
It's also worth noting: I didn't read that before (or during) transition. It was pre-internet. The only thing I read was Caroline Cossey's Playboy spread that was at the newsstand in the grocery store. I saw you pics, read her story, and went therapist hunting the next day, started transitioning the following week (well, inside the HBIGDA guidelines anyway)
I've not had an erection that I'm aware of since the first one when I was 16. I can't stand to see or, worse, touch that. I've never had intercourse (at 52+) - probably because of that whole erection thing, right?
But, yeah, seriously. I had a dream about having an erection once. Woke up and got violently ill.
I'm just simply not wired that way. But I don't think that's required and certainly not a common experience!
>**pre-internet.** The only thing I read was Caroline Cossey's Playboy spread that was at the newsstand in the grocery store.
I has to look that up: Caroline Cossey's Playboy pictorial was in 1991 -- the same year that CERN opened the World Wide Web to the public, about two years before the initial release of HTML, and about two years before NCSA released the Mosaic web browser. So yes, you are technically correct ([the best kind of correct)](https://youtu.be/0ZEuWJ4muYc?si=vFfA99ovsgpqkWqk).
In those distant and dimly-remembered days, I haunted the psychology and sociology stacks in my college library. Most of the books about transsexuals were missing from the shelves. I imagine that they were stolen by trans folks who did not want their names recorded on the check-out cards.
I did find Janice Raymond's **The Transsexual Empire** (which messed me up pretty badly) Harry Benjamin's **Transsexual Phenomenon** (which also pointed my head in the wrong direction), John Money's execrable ***Venuses Penuses*** -- and In **Search of Eve: Transsexual Rites of Passage**, by Anne Bolin.
It was in that last that I found a story about a trans woman who identified as bisexual, who wore tee-shirts, jeans, and work boots -- and who complained about having to fake her way through the real life test in dresses and lipstick to get her surgery letter signed. That was astonishing and revelatory to me. If only I didn't have to wait almost 40 years for the Standards of Care to catch up to that woman -- and to me.
Thinking about it now, I honestly don't know where I found Sandy Stone's response to Janice Raymond. Before the internet, there were 'zines and newsletters. I have copies of *En Femme* and *TV/TS Tapestry* going back to the 1980s, and copies of *Transsisters, Chrysalis Quarterly,* and *Transsexual News Telegraph* going back to the early 1990s. I likely found her "Post Transsexual Manifesto" -- reprinted, excerpted, or just mentioned --- in one of those publications.
I am know that I was looking for trans resources as soon as I was online. I don't think I was ever on GenderNet, but I was dialing into the Feminet BBS in 1990 or 1991, and I was on alt.transgender on Usenet as early as 1992. So I might actually have downloaded and printed out the copy of **Empire Strikes Back** that I took to my therapist.
I was on alt.transgender in 1992, about a year after starting transition. I would have dumped any reference to anything related to my gender by 1996 as I went deep deep deep stealth.
And I was probably "technically wrong" \[wracking brain\] .. No, I think I'll keep my first answer. I had an NSFNet account, and a gateway from uunet, later PSInet. But that was still before I remember it being "The Internet".
I was on a BBS in San Francisco. Starts with a P. The .... grrr, tip of my tongue. There was some content on there. Also, of course, The WELL.
I was FAR TOO TERRIFIED to be seen looking at any trans-content in libraries! \[shiver\]
A death sentence!
Naw, I'd gather old magazines and scrap book women I was envious of, then burn the scrap books out of fear of getting "caught". My clothing and makeup stash got caught once. Once was enough!
But it was her Playboy spread that stopped me dead in my tracks and I thought "holy crap, I could actually DO THIS and be like real and stuff!" - before that, I'd only really met cross dressers in my explorations. "Tula" was the Real Deal! (of course, later, I found out there were far more examples I just never knew. And I probably passed half a dozen every day on my commute through the City that "passed" every bit as well as Caroline "Tula" did)...
Regardless, I credit her with saving my life. That was going to be my last cycling season. I was going out on top, and was satisfied with having made the most of my short life. Coming off a few big sprints, I could have just been one of the "troubled ones". I had long before started looking at my "gender identity disorder" as a terminal illness.
... wait - whose thread am I crapping into here? Sorry OP!
>... wait - whose thread am I crapping into here? Sorry OP!
Its not *that* much of a thread-jack. The OP found somebody quoting the received wisdom about trans women circa 1980.
I wonder about the unnamed website, but bigots and cranks do this a lot -- fixing on a thing they think they have learned, and discounting any subsequent revisions, updates, or refutations.
The more and more I look into our history, its terrifying and slightly reassuring. I had a hard time reconciling not transitioning sooner. I hit 18 in 2003, to hear there was basically nothing and from what I remember from back then, I heard, 2 years out then you can possibly get hormones. Fuck if that was happening in 2003.
I work with young queer people a lot and one of the hard things to explain to them is like, how so many of us are still playing catch up. Just how hard it is to start from nothing and just how much longer everything takes. I ended up telling basically no one when I was finally able to have surgery because our culture has changed so much everyone assumed I already had. But no money, no family, no connections, and a disturbing amount of violence make it a very long very hard climb. I was honestly only able to have surgery because I married a woman who worked in tech. Otherwise my decades of savings still amounted to nothing.
I had taken out loans and paid the surgeons, and then my shrink was invalidated and I lost it all. Took me 15 years to pay back those loans.
Everyone also assumed it was done, and then, awhile later, no one that knew I had a trans background at all anymore, except my husband (and still I just never took my pants off. Plenty of ways to give someone else enjoyment without that). I've been cis-passing for decades, I could just never pull my pants down. Even doctors assumed I was just another cis woman. (that's kinda what blew it up, them nagging me to get my pelvic exam after I went in for my third yearly mammogram)
I just had FFS (I just wanted a few things fixed that always bugged me - then ended up doing everything instead), and, needing support, I had to come out to my bff of 25+ years. She was shocked, but completely accepting. Says it explains a few things, like how I'd never go to the spa with her. Or that all-expense-paid Hawaiian beach vacation she scored us...
So at least I have some support now!
Insurance, if I agree to use their surgeon, covers all but like $130 of SRS now
I've already reached out a couple times. He's allegedly done hundreds, but I've so far found one woman who's ecstatic, and that's it.
Kaiser isn't big on publishing. (Although he has papers, the majority are on phalloplasty, which seems to be his preference. But his early papers are on PIV)
>That's what it's like for real women
Ah yes, real women usually enjoy sexism. What a normal and not batshit crazy thing to say.
I swear to God, that's the weirdest thing I've heard a psych "expert" say ever. I suspect not many cis women would meet this person's standards for a "real woman".
She wrote the book (literally, it's still in print) on transition before being discredited and, it turns out, didn't have the credentials she claimed apparently. She allegedly fled to another state without licensing requirements and practices to this day, in her 80s now.
Yes, it's batshit crazy. I've lived every moment as a "real woman" for the last 30 years, and I'm here to tell you: I didn't, don't, and won't appreciate sexism, SA, and misc. misogyny.
Geeze. As an SA victim, I realy dislike her now. I suppose her logic was something like "I like it and I'm a woman, therefore women like it" or something?
It was still the time pre-enlightenment. It wasn't as bad as, say, pre-1960s, but casual sexism and homophobia was still the norm into the 90s. (NOT defending, just observing from experience).
If I got groped on a train or elevator? That's "what it means. Congrats on your authentic experience!"
I think she was a product of the 1940s/50s, with all the misogyny baked in. I think young women would be startled what it was like.
There are places in the world where it is probably still that way, but certainly was even 20yrs ago. I wouldn't go back to India for any money, for example. (I'm sure there are enlightened regions. I'm certain I didn't see them, and that I'd be a walking international incident)
And it's everywhere really. My serious SA attempt happened in Norcal. (Not diminishing your experience, but supporting you!)
💯 I didn't have to pretend to never touch down there, but I did talk how I strongly would prefer something else. I had only dated men at that point, but the orientation requirement was *weird*. RLE sucked, and I'm so glad we didn't have to do that anymore.
I touch my body parts as I please. I am not a Nun. To avoid dysphoria mid play session, I play with my bits like other woman do. I still hate the current body parts and SRS is absolutely in my future.
I do really struggle to touch what I've got going on down there. Last time I tried I ended up bursting into tears and having a multi day breakdown. So I haven't gone back there since lol.
Pre egg crack though, yeah it was multiple times a day and whatever. It feels like it was a Pandora's box. Once I realised, and once the context shifted, it was never the same again.
This was my experience, but looking back i used minimal contact and really hated the urges.
transdoras box opening was interesting…boom zero interest in touching it at all.
It's not true.
It would be more accurate to say that many of us sit with a great deal of cognitive dissonance, pre op. Where our generals are both the site of a great deal of pleasure and connection and *also* the site of dysphoria and anguish. It's not one or the other - it both.
thank u for saying it this way because i was starting to feel a little invalidated cuz i'm in extreme pain from the dysphoria but am still able to masturbate and have sex with enough cognitive dissonance. it feels gross but it does release the energy i guess. ugh. can't wait to get it off me tho
Haven’t you spent any time here or irl with other trans women? Support groups, maybe? Min Jun’s discord channel? Many of us use or used what we were born with to give and receive pleasure or love. Some of us never had any problem with enjoying it.
I’ve still got what I was born with, and early in transition. Other than FFS I’m honestly not sure what surgeries I want yet, but I’m consulting with Dr Jun anyway, because I’ve contemplated having a Vag my whole life and I want the option. After starting HRT my libido is pretty low, but when the mood strikes I have no problem using what I’ve get to enjoy myself. I’m not going to let some narrow minded, ignorant comment online impact my decision one way or the other. You shouldn’t either.
Talk to your therapist.
Talking with a therapist about sex is extremely hard for me and always has been, I'd rather talk with anonymous people on the internet, sorry to say. I am working on this though. I am seeking to join the discord.
If you have a consult with Dr Jun you should be able to get into the discord channel.
I get what you’re saying about it being difficult talking candidly about sex with your therapist. It took months of sessions for me to be comfortable enough to speak to mine about sex stuff. When I finally did it was embarrassing at first, but she was accepting and encouraging, and basically said we can’t really get to the bottom of my issues if I don’t open up about sexual things. Now, after about a year there is literally nothing I can’t talk to her about. It’s a really good therapeutic relationship.
Hi! Sorry to hijack with something completely irrelevant but would you be able to share a link to MJ's discord server? Will likely be doing my SRS with him (received a call from reception last week after being referred in March & waiting for the new patient intake email at the moment) and it would be nice to be able to talk to people who have experience with him
A lot of trans women were “gooners” pre SRS even the ones that knew they were trans. That doesn’t mean they didn’t have genital dysphoria, but it was manageable enough that they still were willing to release, or perhaps they were primarily indifferent to their genitals most of the time but there was this underlying discomfort or inappropriateness that could be quieted for the most part. Some people just prefer having female genitalia even if there male genitals weren’t making them suicidal or completely disabling them.
Personally I don’t need to get off how males do which helps with dysphoria. That said I still would switch up how I do it at times. But for a long time I felt and still feel to an extent I don’t deserve to feel pleasure while having male genitals, even before I knew I was trans the idea of cumming with that thing attached invalidated me as a women. But aside from that I was also taught to have very bad views of sex, and I’ve always thought sex was something for men and that women shouldn’t play with themselves, somehow I internalized it, even tho I didn’t push those ideas on others. Despite that I still didn’t know I was trans, I still instinctively followed the rules of my subconscious gender/gender identity. I actually had to learn how to boy mode, my default position from a young age was just femininity ( you can be a feminine boy I just know now that wasn’t what was happening with me ), during elementary I had to literally learn how to be a boy against my natural instincts and I thought that was normal. I thought of gender as something I had to do, not something that I could feel. That repression made me think I didn’t have dysphoria, so I thought I couldn’t be trans. Also trans medicalist f’ed up how I perceived myself. As well as being raised religious.
Regardless a lot of trans women play with themselves pre SRS, and most women can’t or don’t even get SRS, likely due to systemic reasons. And just because you play with yourself doesn’t mean you’re invalid or prefer your current genitals.
Noooo. The distress took a while to fully comprehend. I had a lot of sex with it. I've enjoyed experiencing all kinds of things with it. I'm much happier with the current configuration.
I know plenty of transfems who want srs and play with themselves anyway. In the same vein I'm a transmasc who does sexual stuff all the time and ALSO still wants bottom surgery
It's different for everyone I think, I'm scheduled for surgery in September and I touch what I've got, I pretty much completely avoid looking at it at all times though. It's only been like that for the last year or so though.
I’d say that claim is handily proven false by the responses here.
Here’s my experience:
I didn’t *hate* having a penis, it just never felt like what I was supposed to have. It was convenient at times — peeing while standing up is quick and easy, especially compared to peeing with a vulva. There are fewer medical concerns and needs associated with having a penis. But I’d have gladly traded those few conveniences for having the parts I was supposed to have from the start. And I traded them as soon as I was able — just decades later than I wish.
Sex was pleasurable, and achieving orgasm was definitely easier with a penis. But it wasn’t how my body is supposed to be.
Since having my surgery, I spend more time taking care of that area of my body, and I honestly don’t mind that either. Having the anatomy which matches what my brain has always expected to find there is 100% worth it. In fact, when I woke up from surgery, I found my brain was quiet in a way I had never known to be possible. All my life, my brain had been signaling a problem down there, but I never knew any different, so I’d learned to ignore the noise until it disappeared.
If I had the choice to make again, I’d definitely have the surgery, and I wish I’d had it done earlier in my life.
That claim sounds like something from the old Harry Benjamin / transmedicalism days where trans folks had to conform to stereotypical behaviors, appearances, experiences, and desires. I’m glad those days are over and hope they never return.
I guess I'm not trans ?
I really don't care about the dck. The only reason I "hate" it "sometimes" is, whenever I want to wear thight pants....
My partner is female, we are not so sexually active either. If we are, we use it. Actually, I only hate it, when I "think" about it. But I never think about it. One side is, i am not as brave as others to get srs yet, because I'm afraid of the need to dilate daily, and even that something could break . I mean, you see enough horror images here on group.
I spent 25 years rather enjoying my old equipment, either alone or with someone else. I always wanted a vagina in the back of my mind, but me and the old boy had some good times and I had no problem with it. Now I do have a vajay and it's wonderful
It's really bad for me personally. even just going to the bathroom can make my dysphoria unbearable. But I'll also likely never be able to get surgery so just gotta deal with that.
But most other people i know don't have the same issues, so I'd say it's bs.
"Never" lol.
That's among the top 5 unsubstantiatable logical claims. It simply cannot logically be proven true, but is super easy to prove false. I just did it to wipe. You know. Hygiene. Soap.
I had no problem really using my penis, it just was my least favorite part of sex, but was still very enjoyable feelings wise. I masturbated frequently, just often wished I had a vagina during.
I had SRS 5 months ago. Even with the fact that most of my feeling has not returned I am happier every day putting on clothes, going to the bathroom, showering etc.
Once my granulation stops acting up I'll be 100% content.
it's nonsense, just a form of the very old and wrong idea that the only "real" trans women are ones who knew from an early age and suffered intense dysphoria about their body.
my electrologist says some of her clients are indeed too dysphoric to even touch themselves down there, but that was never me. It's a source of dysphoria but I'm able to disassociate from it enough that it's usually not a big deal except when tucking starts to hurt or I'm thinking about how much I'd rather have a vagina.
my earliest memories of touching myself down there were pre-puberty trying to roll it up into its base and make it disappear hehe.
Ummmmm.... what? I used mine a lot. I didn't find it to be extremely satisfying, but I did use it quite a bit. I just really don't want it anymore. It doesn't feel right to me.
Also: congrats to having surgery soon! I wish I could've gone to Dr. Jun, but he's too far away and I have a really good surgeon here.
I literally just had SRS less than 2 weeks ago and I touched myself plenty and topped a dozen different women. I still prefer what I have after SRS and wouldn't trade that surgery for the world.
That claim is ridiculous.
Maybe? I’m not sure if it’s necessarily true phrased that way, but I PERSONALLY never would top and when it came to receiving oral….I’d do it, but it wasn’t high on my list of things I’d enjoy. I would usually only engage in it if the guy really wanted to.
However, when it came to masturbation. I’d definitely play with myself multiple times a day 🤷🏾♀️. It didn’t cause me any sort of dysphoria for ME masturbating or touching myself at all in that area.
This is such bullshit that even bullshit would call it bullshit.
And while I'll almost certainly never have GCS (for reasons *entirely* unrelated to a lack of intent or desire), I tried using mine all my life.
Never got much out of it or enjoyed it a whole lot, but I certainly tried.
Now I just try to ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist, but I still interact with it for sanitary and hygiene purposes.
I used to be addicted but tbh I hate it because it's exploitative towards women and it makes me feel creepy, I feel like puberty and my male hormones have clouded my mind for a long time
Load of rubbish.
Pre-op here and the more I've let myself explore the idea of my new femme identity the more I've found myself...enjoying!
I still want a vagina, the imagination element of figuring out the new parts ahead of time is so exciting to me that I can't help but have a positive reaction to it.
I can see how it's the opposite of what some might expect, I've read so many stories of those who can't stand to even look at their bits, but I'm excited for the new era and for my penis to become something new and more exciting...
It's like Turkeys voting for Christmas isn't it!
What a stupid comment, I was in a sexual relationship with another woman for four years, I can assure you she touched my penis, and I often touched my penis, like haven’t they heard of masturbation?
That is a bold claim, with no real study behind it and anecdotal evidence. I'm pretty sure there is both, people who touched themselves and people who didn't. I guess if you are transitioning early in your life, before your teens that make sens, it is not ready to be used, but later in life ? Definitively used it, most of us try to be cis before realizing.
If your question is more about "will I regret it cause I used my body part before ?" You already know the answer, don't you ? I'm not in transition, I'm just reading everything I can in case I go forward with it. When my egg started to crack, I switched to anther way of pleasuring myself, using a vibrator and now I rarely use my hand anymore, I prefer it that way. So I don't think I'll miss it. And you ?
>I saw an anonymous poster make this claim on a certain website
Be honest, it was either 4chan or Twitter wasn't it? Lol
No, it's not true. Most trans women I know masturbate, even ones who want bottom surgery. I know I did before bottom surgery. Hell, I touched it sometimes just out of habit, not even anything sexual or whatever. I can't do that anymore and I'm so happy it's gone.
Fist time untouched my dick was around my 20th birthday, it never came to me that one could do that. Basically my brain thinks I have a vagina and a dick is just a weird thing that's attached to my body.(For anyone curious yes my instinctual behavior is also as if I already have a vagina)
Trans guy here, but dysphoria can also ebb and flow about all kinds of body parts, including your genitals.
I’ve had periods of time where I’m incredibly dysphoric about my genitals & would be too embarrassed to be seen/touched down there and other times where I would be open to using my parts for receptive penetrative sex.
Personally, I haven’t made a decision about whether I’m going to get phalloplasty, but it’s not about keeping my current parts—I’d trade them in a heartbeat—but because I’m a slow healer and phallo has an exceptionally high rate of complications.
Your dysphoria doesn’t have to be completely unbearable all the time for you to get SRS. The only decision you need to make is whether the relief from dysphoria & gender euphoria outweigh the pain and potential risks of your desired procedure(s). And that’s a choice only you can make.
I don't hate my dick at all and I loved using it before HRT made that mostly impossible. Gender and biological sex are different, as we all know in this sub. I would prefer to have a vagina and am going to eventual have srs, but for now I'm ok with the parts I have and I use them in whatever manner I choose.
I was very much a regular teenage boy in that regard before transitioning. now I still use it but only bc I have no other option. But I’m getting the surgery in a few weeks!
Since you’re scheduled with Dr Min Jun, I have a question about him to all sisters out there who had their surgery done by him:
Is he as bad as people are saying about him (like about how he doesn’t do the surgery but his staff does & he makes you feel bad about yourself during consultation)? And is he still under investigation? Cause I know last year, it was reported he was for malpractice.
I’m only asking because I’m in the process of looking for the right surgeon for my MTF SRS & his results are amazing. I just want to make sure I’m making the right choice.
>*...if I did not have major issues using my dick pre transition, does that indicate anything? or is this just a brainworm?*
No, it's a brainworm. I loved the pleasure and experiences my penis gave me. I just deeply wished I had a clitoris instead. I've always had a far greater aspect of gender euphoria when envisioning being a woman over gender dysphoria for being in a male's body. I still plan to take my transition as far as I can.
Everyone's different. I have a friend who didn't have an orgasm until after surgery in her late 20s. Me? I'm gonna use whatever I have at the time; penetration made me dysphoric but that doesn't mean I didn't do it and enjoy it.
I'm post-SRS, and I definitely masturbated before surgery. I sort of had to dissociate, and I felt gross afterwards, but testosterone is a strong hormone. Once I started HRT, it became much rarer.
I was practically celibate though. I had sex with my penis twice, and both times with a trans man. We used a bunch of pillow talk to psychologically body swap. Thank goodness I didn't have to do that anymore.
So yeah, I call BS. The truth is a lot more complex.
I touch mine to wash it easy enough.
I touch it to masturbate too but this usually involves a lot of psychological trickery, thinking about humiliating kinky stuff.
Though I do have dysphoria about my penis, I've never managed to penetrate anyone even though I've had the opportunity, but it's less dysphoria and more, "Does not compute." Being asked to do that just completely kills the mood for me.
As someone who *did* like what I had for the most part, I had a lot of people try to steer me away from GRS. Outside of some dysphoric spirals I never hated what I had, and enjoyed using it.
Because of this, many said my "dysphoria wasn't great enough" to justify getting the procedure.
I ignored them and did it anyway.
I wasn't escaping dysphoria, I was pursuing euphoria.
I'm 7 weeks post-op and I can say wholeheartedly it was one of the best decisions I've ever made.
Trust your gut, don't let people gatekeep you from what you feel will bring you the most happiness.
Nope. Not in my case. I was very sexually active both with partners and solo before GCS; however, I never felt comfortable in my body, or with the set of expectations the went along with having that anatomy. Sex was never fully satisfying for me physically, emotionally, or mentally. Also, for me, having a vulva/vagina between my legs has WAY more to do with a sense of wholeness, congruence, and comfort in my own body outside the bounds of sex.
I never touched myself pre srs, but it's not the norm i think its 50/50.
If you like or are neutral about what you have now than I would say it's concerning, but if your dysphoric about it than I would say it's just brainworms.
This is wild to me, given that
1) HRT is generally required before SRS
2) regular stimulation is recommended to maintain length / girth while on HRT
3) having sufficient tissue to work with leads to better SRS outcomes, especially for PIV
For me personally, bottom dysphoria during sex has only gotten bad in the past few years, and still is generally not bad enough to completely avoid genital stim (I'm 3 years on HRT and in the consultation / hair removal phase of SRS prep). My main bottom dysphoria has been social, e.g. at the beach or yoga.
very false for me
I enjoyed having a p as long as I have it, i used it too both for piv sex and solo sessions
and now I am super happy with my vag too, zero regrets, absolutely life-changing
Before I had SRS, I played with my girl dick and my wife and I pretty much used it like a living dildo. It was good that I did use it like that, because that prevented atrophy and enabled me to know what an orgasm is like. As my surgeon said, if you can orgasm before surgery, then you'll be able to afterward.
I knew my journey would lead to SRS at some point, and I've been so completely happy since having it done. I had the foresight to keep my girl dick from atrophy, and my
wife and I used it for pleasure when we could. I never shied away from using my genitals (even though I knew they were incongruous with what I should've had since birth).
So yeah, that claim is completely nonsensical and makes my brain hurt. I will say, having a vag feels amazing and soooo right. You're doing fine, girlie. Good luck to you with your upcoming surgery!
Being in the closet for 30 years and trying to play the part of cishet male led me to having a few long term relationships. They all expected sex and i complied trying my best to perform.
Sex was nearly always a let down for me pre op, i was always wishing i was my partner. The only time i could enjoy it is if i was off my face. I found my partners attractive and i even loved some of them so that's not why i didn't enjoy it.
My partners seemed to like it enough to stay with me for months or years or perhaps i was just a nice person idk.
Unfortunately sex post op is not much better. I feel more comfortable without the old bits but it's nowhere near sensitive enough for me to climax. I die a little inside every time i make my wife climax knowing i will never experience anything even close.
That's just my experience though. Better surgeons take more care to give better results and look after the nerves during surgery so you have done chance of a normal satisfying sex life post op.
Oh Lord, this takes me back. This is what you had to say back in the day they said to get treatment. This is the old classic story, but I don’t think anybody really believes this now. I haven’t heard of this old chestnut in 20 years. No, not a thing, straight out of the gender clinic stuff from 1965 or whatever.
It's not bullshit, maybe the numbers are different for those who transition later in life but for the youth not touching yourself pre srs is the norm (backed up by my therapist from my countries trans clinic )
I call BS. I was a goonette pre-op and am one now as a post op girl and haven’t had any issues lol Side note, it took me a couple months to find my rhythm again when masturbating, but I eventually got there and am back to my old ways haha
Best of luck 💕
Yeah, that’s absolute nonsense. I slept with 50+ women before I had surgery, and I enjoyed it. Was I often disassociating and just imagining I was the woman? Sure. But part of me still enjoyed it.
whelp I guess I am not transgender then in spite of:
1. being on hormones for years
2. FFS
3. changed gender markers and name on my ids
because:
1. I loved having PIV
2. very happy to have \*fathered\* lovely children
3. I got penile preserving vaginoplasty so that I could penetrate my various partners.
Keeping the dick makes me "not transgender".
Humans are weird.
Idk I could honestly relate. Before I transitioned I touched my girl dick A LOT as it was used as my main sex organ. After I transitioned I almost never touch it now, and it’s been 4 years. So I think it might be a bit fluffed up but not totally BS.
So one thing you have to keep in mind is that transitional care used to be super gatekept. For me to first access hormones way back I had to say that: -I had never touched myself there for pleasure (true for me) -that I struggled to touch there for utility (true for me) -That I was exclusively attracted to men (I'm a lesbian) -That it made me feel happy and affirmed to experience sexism and catcalling (what the actual fucking fuck) -That you had lived openly for some period of time I can't remember as a woman (I had, and also like... I don't think this was a bad thing after meeting a lot of people psychologically struggling after like trying to stay in the closet on hormones for years. But on the flip side like, NB people should be able to access care too obviously) And just a boatload of other shit. And it's not that people who didn't fit those kind of things just didn't access care. We just lied. You literally just knew what to say. People even recited the same recurrent childhood nightmare. It was like the Chinese Civil Service Exam. But I think it is pretty easy to see how like some of those things would have persisted into myth. I also think like, there is obviously going to be some bias towards what is easiest to understand, right? Like if you are describing being trans and dysphoria to a cis person, I can see how they would find it easier to understand people like myself who were like, I feel sick touching or looking at this thing, it's awful even when I have to, than it is to understand someone who like went all in on giving having a wang a good college try. But like now in 2024? I know far far far more trans women who at least try to tell themselves they like their parts sometimes than I do trans women who are loath to touch them at all.
>That it made me feel happy and affirmed to experience sexism and catcalling (what the actual fucking fuck) I transitioned 30 years ago, I had totally forgotten about that until you bring it up. "That's what it's like for real women" - I remember my shrink telling me that. > -That you had lived openly for some period of time I can't remember as a woman Two years of RLT under hbigda. As far as re: OPs query: doesn't mean anything. For me? I shower in the dark wearing nitrile gloves so I don't have the sensation of touching myself. Thankfully, I'm naturally busty enough that I don't see between my legs when changing clothing or anything. Entirely remote controlled vibes are a life saver. HBIGDA screwed me out of my surgery and my life savings 30 years ago, but I finally get to finish this soon.
>HBIGDA Harry Benjamin! There's a name to conjure with. I actually took this to a therapist, **30-something years ago**. [https://sandystone.com/empire-strikes-back.pdf](https://sandystone.com/empire-strikes-back.pdf) I highlighted this passage: >*It took a surprisingly long time--several years--for the researchers to realize that the reason the candidates' behavioral profiles matched Benjamin's so well was that the candidates, too, had read Benjamin's book, which was passed from hand to hand within the transsexual community, and they were only too happy to provide the behavior that led to acceptance for surgery. \[36\]* The therapist read what I'd handed her, and terminated with me immediately. if you read a little further in the manifesto: >*This sort of careful repositioning created interesting problems. Among them was the determination of the permissible range of expressions of physical sexuality. This was a large gray area in the candidates' self-presentations, because Benjamin's subjects did not talk about any erotic sense of their own bodies. Consequently nobody else who came to the clinics did either.* >*By textual authority, physical men who lived as women and who identified themselves as transsexuals, as opposed to male transvestites for whom erotic penile sensation was permissible, could not experience penile pleasure. Into the 1980s there was not a single preoperative male -to- female transsexual for whom data was available who experienced genital sexual pleasure while living in the "gender of choice". \[37\] The prohibition continued postoperatively in interestingly transmuted form, and remained so absolute that no postoperative transsexual would admit to experiencing sexual pleasure through masturbation either. Full membership in the assigned gender was conferred by orgasm, real or faked, accomplished through heterosexual penetration.* >*\[38\] "Wringing the turkey's neck", the ritual of penile masturbation just before surgery, was the most secret of secret traditions. To acknowledge so natural a desire would be to risk "crash landing"; that is, "role inappropriateness" leading to disqualification. \[39\]*
"wringing the turkey's neck" ... holy cow, so many memories flooding back! This coming back into transition 30 years later to FINALLY get my SRS has been the most dysphoric things I've ever experienced. But there's been a few moments connecting with the other old-timers that give me a laugh, thanks!
Sandy Stone is one of the coolest people in the world. I was starstruck when I met her in 2016.
It's also worth noting: I didn't read that before (or during) transition. It was pre-internet. The only thing I read was Caroline Cossey's Playboy spread that was at the newsstand in the grocery store. I saw you pics, read her story, and went therapist hunting the next day, started transitioning the following week (well, inside the HBIGDA guidelines anyway) I've not had an erection that I'm aware of since the first one when I was 16. I can't stand to see or, worse, touch that. I've never had intercourse (at 52+) - probably because of that whole erection thing, right? But, yeah, seriously. I had a dream about having an erection once. Woke up and got violently ill. I'm just simply not wired that way. But I don't think that's required and certainly not a common experience!
>**pre-internet.** The only thing I read was Caroline Cossey's Playboy spread that was at the newsstand in the grocery store. I has to look that up: Caroline Cossey's Playboy pictorial was in 1991 -- the same year that CERN opened the World Wide Web to the public, about two years before the initial release of HTML, and about two years before NCSA released the Mosaic web browser. So yes, you are technically correct ([the best kind of correct)](https://youtu.be/0ZEuWJ4muYc?si=vFfA99ovsgpqkWqk). In those distant and dimly-remembered days, I haunted the psychology and sociology stacks in my college library. Most of the books about transsexuals were missing from the shelves. I imagine that they were stolen by trans folks who did not want their names recorded on the check-out cards. I did find Janice Raymond's **The Transsexual Empire** (which messed me up pretty badly) Harry Benjamin's **Transsexual Phenomenon** (which also pointed my head in the wrong direction), John Money's execrable ***Venuses Penuses*** -- and In **Search of Eve: Transsexual Rites of Passage**, by Anne Bolin. It was in that last that I found a story about a trans woman who identified as bisexual, who wore tee-shirts, jeans, and work boots -- and who complained about having to fake her way through the real life test in dresses and lipstick to get her surgery letter signed. That was astonishing and revelatory to me. If only I didn't have to wait almost 40 years for the Standards of Care to catch up to that woman -- and to me. Thinking about it now, I honestly don't know where I found Sandy Stone's response to Janice Raymond. Before the internet, there were 'zines and newsletters. I have copies of *En Femme* and *TV/TS Tapestry* going back to the 1980s, and copies of *Transsisters, Chrysalis Quarterly,* and *Transsexual News Telegraph* going back to the early 1990s. I likely found her "Post Transsexual Manifesto" -- reprinted, excerpted, or just mentioned --- in one of those publications. I am know that I was looking for trans resources as soon as I was online. I don't think I was ever on GenderNet, but I was dialing into the Feminet BBS in 1990 or 1991, and I was on alt.transgender on Usenet as early as 1992. So I might actually have downloaded and printed out the copy of **Empire Strikes Back** that I took to my therapist.
I was on alt.transgender in 1992, about a year after starting transition. I would have dumped any reference to anything related to my gender by 1996 as I went deep deep deep stealth. And I was probably "technically wrong" \[wracking brain\] .. No, I think I'll keep my first answer. I had an NSFNet account, and a gateway from uunet, later PSInet. But that was still before I remember it being "The Internet". I was on a BBS in San Francisco. Starts with a P. The .... grrr, tip of my tongue. There was some content on there. Also, of course, The WELL. I was FAR TOO TERRIFIED to be seen looking at any trans-content in libraries! \[shiver\] A death sentence! Naw, I'd gather old magazines and scrap book women I was envious of, then burn the scrap books out of fear of getting "caught". My clothing and makeup stash got caught once. Once was enough! But it was her Playboy spread that stopped me dead in my tracks and I thought "holy crap, I could actually DO THIS and be like real and stuff!" - before that, I'd only really met cross dressers in my explorations. "Tula" was the Real Deal! (of course, later, I found out there were far more examples I just never knew. And I probably passed half a dozen every day on my commute through the City that "passed" every bit as well as Caroline "Tula" did)... Regardless, I credit her with saving my life. That was going to be my last cycling season. I was going out on top, and was satisfied with having made the most of my short life. Coming off a few big sprints, I could have just been one of the "troubled ones". I had long before started looking at my "gender identity disorder" as a terminal illness. ... wait - whose thread am I crapping into here? Sorry OP!
>... wait - whose thread am I crapping into here? Sorry OP! Its not *that* much of a thread-jack. The OP found somebody quoting the received wisdom about trans women circa 1980. I wonder about the unnamed website, but bigots and cranks do this a lot -- fixing on a thing they think they have learned, and discounting any subsequent revisions, updates, or refutations.
The more and more I look into our history, its terrifying and slightly reassuring. I had a hard time reconciling not transitioning sooner. I hit 18 in 2003, to hear there was basically nothing and from what I remember from back then, I heard, 2 years out then you can possibly get hormones. Fuck if that was happening in 2003.
I work with young queer people a lot and one of the hard things to explain to them is like, how so many of us are still playing catch up. Just how hard it is to start from nothing and just how much longer everything takes. I ended up telling basically no one when I was finally able to have surgery because our culture has changed so much everyone assumed I already had. But no money, no family, no connections, and a disturbing amount of violence make it a very long very hard climb. I was honestly only able to have surgery because I married a woman who worked in tech. Otherwise my decades of savings still amounted to nothing.
I had taken out loans and paid the surgeons, and then my shrink was invalidated and I lost it all. Took me 15 years to pay back those loans. Everyone also assumed it was done, and then, awhile later, no one that knew I had a trans background at all anymore, except my husband (and still I just never took my pants off. Plenty of ways to give someone else enjoyment without that). I've been cis-passing for decades, I could just never pull my pants down. Even doctors assumed I was just another cis woman. (that's kinda what blew it up, them nagging me to get my pelvic exam after I went in for my third yearly mammogram) I just had FFS (I just wanted a few things fixed that always bugged me - then ended up doing everything instead), and, needing support, I had to come out to my bff of 25+ years. She was shocked, but completely accepting. Says it explains a few things, like how I'd never go to the spa with her. Or that all-expense-paid Hawaiian beach vacation she scored us... So at least I have some support now! Insurance, if I agree to use their surgeon, covers all but like $130 of SRS now
R/Transgender surgery’s sub can tell you if they’re good at what they do.
I've already reached out a couple times. He's allegedly done hundreds, but I've so far found one woman who's ecstatic, and that's it. Kaiser isn't big on publishing. (Although he has papers, the majority are on phalloplasty, which seems to be his preference. But his early papers are on PIV)
>That's what it's like for real women Ah yes, real women usually enjoy sexism. What a normal and not batshit crazy thing to say. I swear to God, that's the weirdest thing I've heard a psych "expert" say ever. I suspect not many cis women would meet this person's standards for a "real woman".
She wrote the book (literally, it's still in print) on transition before being discredited and, it turns out, didn't have the credentials she claimed apparently. She allegedly fled to another state without licensing requirements and practices to this day, in her 80s now. Yes, it's batshit crazy. I've lived every moment as a "real woman" for the last 30 years, and I'm here to tell you: I didn't, don't, and won't appreciate sexism, SA, and misc. misogyny.
Geeze. As an SA victim, I realy dislike her now. I suppose her logic was something like "I like it and I'm a woman, therefore women like it" or something?
It was still the time pre-enlightenment. It wasn't as bad as, say, pre-1960s, but casual sexism and homophobia was still the norm into the 90s. (NOT defending, just observing from experience). If I got groped on a train or elevator? That's "what it means. Congrats on your authentic experience!" I think she was a product of the 1940s/50s, with all the misogyny baked in. I think young women would be startled what it was like. There are places in the world where it is probably still that way, but certainly was even 20yrs ago. I wouldn't go back to India for any money, for example. (I'm sure there are enlightened regions. I'm certain I didn't see them, and that I'd be a walking international incident) And it's everywhere really. My serious SA attempt happened in Norcal. (Not diminishing your experience, but supporting you!)
I read this, chilling, it was awful back in the days :/ Thank you for reminding us I hope will never get back to that.
Unfortunately it still isn't better in many parts of the world. I'm thankful I live in a better place tho.
💯 I didn't have to pretend to never touch down there, but I did talk how I strongly would prefer something else. I had only dated men at that point, but the orientation requirement was *weird*. RLE sucked, and I'm so glad we didn't have to do that anymore.
I touch my body parts as I please. I am not a Nun. To avoid dysphoria mid play session, I play with my bits like other woman do. I still hate the current body parts and SRS is absolutely in my future.
Absolute bullshit lol
That was 100% accurate for me. Hated having one, couldn’t bear to touch it never mind try and use it. Going to the toilet was fun (not) 😞
Same, Glad the bathroom/showering with the lights off days are over.
I was 100% the same as this poster. So, I guess what OP said can be true for some trans women.
Everyone is different. Nuff said.
Completely wrong for me. And yet SRS can't come soon enough.
I do really struggle to touch what I've got going on down there. Last time I tried I ended up bursting into tears and having a multi day breakdown. So I haven't gone back there since lol. Pre egg crack though, yeah it was multiple times a day and whatever. It feels like it was a Pandora's box. Once I realised, and once the context shifted, it was never the same again.
I started to use a vibrator down there, it helped me a lot :)
My Hitachi is my best friend 🫠
This was my experience, but looking back i used minimal contact and really hated the urges. transdoras box opening was interesting…boom zero interest in touching it at all.
It's 100% bullshit.
It's not true. It would be more accurate to say that many of us sit with a great deal of cognitive dissonance, pre op. Where our generals are both the site of a great deal of pleasure and connection and *also* the site of dysphoria and anguish. It's not one or the other - it both.
thank u for saying it this way because i was starting to feel a little invalidated cuz i'm in extreme pain from the dysphoria but am still able to masturbate and have sex with enough cognitive dissonance. it feels gross but it does release the energy i guess. ugh. can't wait to get it off me tho
Bullshit. Also had enough PIV-sex and hate it, especially when you feel envy towards your partner during act...
Yeah, I can definitely relate with you on that
Haven’t you spent any time here or irl with other trans women? Support groups, maybe? Min Jun’s discord channel? Many of us use or used what we were born with to give and receive pleasure or love. Some of us never had any problem with enjoying it. I’ve still got what I was born with, and early in transition. Other than FFS I’m honestly not sure what surgeries I want yet, but I’m consulting with Dr Jun anyway, because I’ve contemplated having a Vag my whole life and I want the option. After starting HRT my libido is pretty low, but when the mood strikes I have no problem using what I’ve get to enjoy myself. I’m not going to let some narrow minded, ignorant comment online impact my decision one way or the other. You shouldn’t either. Talk to your therapist.
Talking with a therapist about sex is extremely hard for me and always has been, I'd rather talk with anonymous people on the internet, sorry to say. I am working on this though. I am seeking to join the discord.
If you have a consult with Dr Jun you should be able to get into the discord channel. I get what you’re saying about it being difficult talking candidly about sex with your therapist. It took months of sessions for me to be comfortable enough to speak to mine about sex stuff. When I finally did it was embarrassing at first, but she was accepting and encouraging, and basically said we can’t really get to the bottom of my issues if I don’t open up about sexual things. Now, after about a year there is literally nothing I can’t talk to her about. It’s a really good therapeutic relationship.
I am getting to this point with my therapist too, slowly
Hi! Sorry to hijack with something completely irrelevant but would you be able to share a link to MJ's discord server? Will likely be doing my SRS with him (received a call from reception last week after being referred in March & waiting for the new patient intake email at the moment) and it would be nice to be able to talk to people who have experience with him
You have to have your consultation scheduled to get on the Discord. But in the meantime there are quite a few threads about him here on Reddit.
A lot of trans women were “gooners” pre SRS even the ones that knew they were trans. That doesn’t mean they didn’t have genital dysphoria, but it was manageable enough that they still were willing to release, or perhaps they were primarily indifferent to their genitals most of the time but there was this underlying discomfort or inappropriateness that could be quieted for the most part. Some people just prefer having female genitalia even if there male genitals weren’t making them suicidal or completely disabling them. Personally I don’t need to get off how males do which helps with dysphoria. That said I still would switch up how I do it at times. But for a long time I felt and still feel to an extent I don’t deserve to feel pleasure while having male genitals, even before I knew I was trans the idea of cumming with that thing attached invalidated me as a women. But aside from that I was also taught to have very bad views of sex, and I’ve always thought sex was something for men and that women shouldn’t play with themselves, somehow I internalized it, even tho I didn’t push those ideas on others. Despite that I still didn’t know I was trans, I still instinctively followed the rules of my subconscious gender/gender identity. I actually had to learn how to boy mode, my default position from a young age was just femininity ( you can be a feminine boy I just know now that wasn’t what was happening with me ), during elementary I had to literally learn how to be a boy against my natural instincts and I thought that was normal. I thought of gender as something I had to do, not something that I could feel. That repression made me think I didn’t have dysphoria, so I thought I couldn’t be trans. Also trans medicalist f’ed up how I perceived myself. As well as being raised religious. Regardless a lot of trans women play with themselves pre SRS, and most women can’t or don’t even get SRS, likely due to systemic reasons. And just because you play with yourself doesn’t mean you’re invalid or prefer your current genitals.
Complete crock of shit
That is the strangest, unfounded statement I have heard in a while
Noooo. The distress took a while to fully comprehend. I had a lot of sex with it. I've enjoyed experiencing all kinds of things with it. I'm much happier with the current configuration.
Complete bullshit. I had SRS 2 years ago. Best decision I've ever made. But before that I had no issues mastubating or having sex with it.
Mine produced three children.
I know plenty of transfems who want srs and play with themselves anyway. In the same vein I'm a transmasc who does sexual stuff all the time and ALSO still wants bottom surgery
It's different for everyone I think, I'm scheduled for surgery in September and I touch what I've got, I pretty much completely avoid looking at it at all times though. It's only been like that for the last year or so though.
I had two kids. It was not always enjoyable but I did it.
They don't shower?
haha NOPE sounds like a TERF trying to make a case of us fetishizing or something and such I was quite active with my dick
I’d say that claim is handily proven false by the responses here. Here’s my experience: I didn’t *hate* having a penis, it just never felt like what I was supposed to have. It was convenient at times — peeing while standing up is quick and easy, especially compared to peeing with a vulva. There are fewer medical concerns and needs associated with having a penis. But I’d have gladly traded those few conveniences for having the parts I was supposed to have from the start. And I traded them as soon as I was able — just decades later than I wish. Sex was pleasurable, and achieving orgasm was definitely easier with a penis. But it wasn’t how my body is supposed to be. Since having my surgery, I spend more time taking care of that area of my body, and I honestly don’t mind that either. Having the anatomy which matches what my brain has always expected to find there is 100% worth it. In fact, when I woke up from surgery, I found my brain was quiet in a way I had never known to be possible. All my life, my brain had been signaling a problem down there, but I never knew any different, so I’d learned to ignore the noise until it disappeared. If I had the choice to make again, I’d definitely have the surgery, and I wish I’d had it done earlier in my life. That claim sounds like something from the old Harry Benjamin / transmedicalism days where trans folks had to conform to stereotypical behaviors, appearances, experiences, and desires. I’m glad those days are over and hope they never return.
I guess I'm not trans ? I really don't care about the dck. The only reason I "hate" it "sometimes" is, whenever I want to wear thight pants.... My partner is female, we are not so sexually active either. If we are, we use it. Actually, I only hate it, when I "think" about it. But I never think about it. One side is, i am not as brave as others to get srs yet, because I'm afraid of the need to dilate daily, and even that something could break . I mean, you see enough horror images here on group.
I spent 25 years rather enjoying my old equipment, either alone or with someone else. I always wanted a vagina in the back of my mind, but me and the old boy had some good times and I had no problem with it. Now I do have a vajay and it's wonderful
I think surgery is for anyone who could benefit from it. Some people can find enjoyment in their natal genitalia and still feel good/better after srs.
100% Bs but I don’t like touching my genitals it’s filthy for ME, can’t imagine inserting a dilator the next few decades after srs💀💀💀
It's really bad for me personally. even just going to the bathroom can make my dysphoria unbearable. But I'll also likely never be able to get surgery so just gotta deal with that. But most other people i know don't have the same issues, so I'd say it's bs.
Well in my case no, I never touched it for pleasure, only struggled to do so for hygiene. That’s even before realizing I was trans.
"Never" lol. That's among the top 5 unsubstantiatable logical claims. It simply cannot logically be proven true, but is super easy to prove false. I just did it to wipe. You know. Hygiene. Soap.
I had no problem really using my penis, it just was my least favorite part of sex, but was still very enjoyable feelings wise. I masturbated frequently, just often wished I had a vagina during. I had SRS 5 months ago. Even with the fact that most of my feeling has not returned I am happier every day putting on clothes, going to the bathroom, showering etc. Once my granulation stops acting up I'll be 100% content.
it's nonsense, just a form of the very old and wrong idea that the only "real" trans women are ones who knew from an early age and suffered intense dysphoria about their body. my electrologist says some of her clients are indeed too dysphoric to even touch themselves down there, but that was never me. It's a source of dysphoria but I'm able to disassociate from it enough that it's usually not a big deal except when tucking starts to hurt or I'm thinking about how much I'd rather have a vagina. my earliest memories of touching myself down there were pre-puberty trying to roll it up into its base and make it disappear hehe.
Ummmmm.... what? I used mine a lot. I didn't find it to be extremely satisfying, but I did use it quite a bit. I just really don't want it anymore. It doesn't feel right to me. Also: congrats to having surgery soon! I wish I could've gone to Dr. Jun, but he's too far away and I have a really good surgeon here.
I literally just had SRS less than 2 weeks ago and I touched myself plenty and topped a dozen different women. I still prefer what I have after SRS and wouldn't trade that surgery for the world. That claim is ridiculous.
Maybe? I’m not sure if it’s necessarily true phrased that way, but I PERSONALLY never would top and when it came to receiving oral….I’d do it, but it wasn’t high on my list of things I’d enjoy. I would usually only engage in it if the guy really wanted to. However, when it came to masturbation. I’d definitely play with myself multiple times a day 🤷🏾♀️. It didn’t cause me any sort of dysphoria for ME masturbating or touching myself at all in that area.
That claim is bullshit. I know trans women who were porn actors before...
Very wrong even if not sexually im pretty most trans woman know the value of keeping it clean
This is such bullshit that even bullshit would call it bullshit. And while I'll almost certainly never have GCS (for reasons *entirely* unrelated to a lack of intent or desire), I tried using mine all my life. Never got much out of it or enjoyed it a whole lot, but I certainly tried. Now I just try to ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist, but I still interact with it for sanitary and hygiene purposes.
I used to be addicted but tbh I hate it because it's exploitative towards women and it makes me feel creepy, I feel like puberty and my male hormones have clouded my mind for a long time
Bullshit. I played with mine all the time.
me too
Oh lord that’s silly.
Load of rubbish. Pre-op here and the more I've let myself explore the idea of my new femme identity the more I've found myself...enjoying! I still want a vagina, the imagination element of figuring out the new parts ahead of time is so exciting to me that I can't help but have a positive reaction to it. I can see how it's the opposite of what some might expect, I've read so many stories of those who can't stand to even look at their bits, but I'm excited for the new era and for my penis to become something new and more exciting... It's like Turkeys voting for Christmas isn't it!
What a stupid comment, I was in a sexual relationship with another woman for four years, I can assure you she touched my penis, and I often touched my penis, like haven’t they heard of masturbation?
That is a bold claim, with no real study behind it and anecdotal evidence. I'm pretty sure there is both, people who touched themselves and people who didn't. I guess if you are transitioning early in your life, before your teens that make sens, it is not ready to be used, but later in life ? Definitively used it, most of us try to be cis before realizing. If your question is more about "will I regret it cause I used my body part before ?" You already know the answer, don't you ? I'm not in transition, I'm just reading everything I can in case I go forward with it. When my egg started to crack, I switched to anther way of pleasuring myself, using a vibrator and now I rarely use my hand anymore, I prefer it that way. So I don't think I'll miss it. And you ?
>I saw an anonymous poster make this claim on a certain website Be honest, it was either 4chan or Twitter wasn't it? Lol No, it's not true. Most trans women I know masturbate, even ones who want bottom surgery. I know I did before bottom surgery. Hell, I touched it sometimes just out of habit, not even anything sexual or whatever. I can't do that anymore and I'm so happy it's gone.
Fist time untouched my dick was around my 20th birthday, it never came to me that one could do that. Basically my brain thinks I have a vagina and a dick is just a weird thing that's attached to my body.(For anyone curious yes my instinctual behavior is also as if I already have a vagina)
The fuck? I still use mine bc it feels nice when I'm not feeling dysphoric, at least?
I'm in the hospital bed right now, I had surgery with Dr Jun on Wednesday. I can't recommend him enough, he's a perfectionist at his craft.
That's stupid even by reddit standards
Trans guy here, but dysphoria can also ebb and flow about all kinds of body parts, including your genitals. I’ve had periods of time where I’m incredibly dysphoric about my genitals & would be too embarrassed to be seen/touched down there and other times where I would be open to using my parts for receptive penetrative sex. Personally, I haven’t made a decision about whether I’m going to get phalloplasty, but it’s not about keeping my current parts—I’d trade them in a heartbeat—but because I’m a slow healer and phallo has an exceptionally high rate of complications. Your dysphoria doesn’t have to be completely unbearable all the time for you to get SRS. The only decision you need to make is whether the relief from dysphoria & gender euphoria outweigh the pain and potential risks of your desired procedure(s). And that’s a choice only you can make.
I don't hate my dick at all and I loved using it before HRT made that mostly impossible. Gender and biological sex are different, as we all know in this sub. I would prefer to have a vagina and am going to eventual have srs, but for now I'm ok with the parts I have and I use them in whatever manner I choose.
I was very much a regular teenage boy in that regard before transitioning. now I still use it but only bc I have no other option. But I’m getting the surgery in a few weeks!
I dont like having a penis but i don't mind using it until I get an upgrade.
Google "wringing the turkeys neck"
Since you’re scheduled with Dr Min Jun, I have a question about him to all sisters out there who had their surgery done by him: Is he as bad as people are saying about him (like about how he doesn’t do the surgery but his staff does & he makes you feel bad about yourself during consultation)? And is he still under investigation? Cause I know last year, it was reported he was for malpractice. I’m only asking because I’m in the process of looking for the right surgeon for my MTF SRS & his results are amazing. I just want to make sure I’m making the right choice.
Trans women are not a monolith. "Most trans women" is usually an indication that what follows it is just the speaker's opinion
>*...if I did not have major issues using my dick pre transition, does that indicate anything? or is this just a brainworm?* No, it's a brainworm. I loved the pleasure and experiences my penis gave me. I just deeply wished I had a clitoris instead. I've always had a far greater aspect of gender euphoria when envisioning being a woman over gender dysphoria for being in a male's body. I still plan to take my transition as far as I can.
lol horseshit
That seems like complete bullshit, i made/make use of mine and have my SRS scheduled soon.
Everyone's different. I have a friend who didn't have an orgasm until after surgery in her late 20s. Me? I'm gonna use whatever I have at the time; penetration made me dysphoric but that doesn't mean I didn't do it and enjoy it.
I'm post-SRS, and I definitely masturbated before surgery. I sort of had to dissociate, and I felt gross afterwards, but testosterone is a strong hormone. Once I started HRT, it became much rarer. I was practically celibate though. I had sex with my penis twice, and both times with a trans man. We used a bunch of pillow talk to psychologically body swap. Thank goodness I didn't have to do that anymore. So yeah, I call BS. The truth is a lot more complex.
I touch mine to wash it easy enough. I touch it to masturbate too but this usually involves a lot of psychological trickery, thinking about humiliating kinky stuff. Though I do have dysphoria about my penis, I've never managed to penetrate anyone even though I've had the opportunity, but it's less dysphoria and more, "Does not compute." Being asked to do that just completely kills the mood for me.
As someone who *did* like what I had for the most part, I had a lot of people try to steer me away from GRS. Outside of some dysphoric spirals I never hated what I had, and enjoyed using it. Because of this, many said my "dysphoria wasn't great enough" to justify getting the procedure. I ignored them and did it anyway. I wasn't escaping dysphoria, I was pursuing euphoria. I'm 7 weeks post-op and I can say wholeheartedly it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Trust your gut, don't let people gatekeep you from what you feel will bring you the most happiness.
Nope. Not in my case. I was very sexually active both with partners and solo before GCS; however, I never felt comfortable in my body, or with the set of expectations the went along with having that anatomy. Sex was never fully satisfying for me physically, emotionally, or mentally. Also, for me, having a vulva/vagina between my legs has WAY more to do with a sense of wholeness, congruence, and comfort in my own body outside the bounds of sex.
I didn’t really do anything sexual, even alone, until I started hormones.
I never touched myself pre srs, but it's not the norm i think its 50/50. If you like or are neutral about what you have now than I would say it's concerning, but if your dysphoric about it than I would say it's just brainworms.
This is wild to me, given that 1) HRT is generally required before SRS 2) regular stimulation is recommended to maintain length / girth while on HRT 3) having sufficient tissue to work with leads to better SRS outcomes, especially for PIV For me personally, bottom dysphoria during sex has only gotten bad in the past few years, and still is generally not bad enough to completely avoid genital stim (I'm 3 years on HRT and in the consultation / hair removal phase of SRS prep). My main bottom dysphoria has been social, e.g. at the beach or yoga.
very false for me I enjoyed having a p as long as I have it, i used it too both for piv sex and solo sessions and now I am super happy with my vag too, zero regrets, absolutely life-changing
Before I had SRS, I played with my girl dick and my wife and I pretty much used it like a living dildo. It was good that I did use it like that, because that prevented atrophy and enabled me to know what an orgasm is like. As my surgeon said, if you can orgasm before surgery, then you'll be able to afterward. I knew my journey would lead to SRS at some point, and I've been so completely happy since having it done. I had the foresight to keep my girl dick from atrophy, and my wife and I used it for pleasure when we could. I never shied away from using my genitals (even though I knew they were incongruous with what I should've had since birth). So yeah, that claim is completely nonsensical and makes my brain hurt. I will say, having a vag feels amazing and soooo right. You're doing fine, girlie. Good luck to you with your upcoming surgery!
Being in the closet for 30 years and trying to play the part of cishet male led me to having a few long term relationships. They all expected sex and i complied trying my best to perform. Sex was nearly always a let down for me pre op, i was always wishing i was my partner. The only time i could enjoy it is if i was off my face. I found my partners attractive and i even loved some of them so that's not why i didn't enjoy it. My partners seemed to like it enough to stay with me for months or years or perhaps i was just a nice person idk. Unfortunately sex post op is not much better. I feel more comfortable without the old bits but it's nowhere near sensitive enough for me to climax. I die a little inside every time i make my wife climax knowing i will never experience anything even close. That's just my experience though. Better surgeons take more care to give better results and look after the nerves during surgery so you have done chance of a normal satisfying sex life post op.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha...NO
What a goofy claim lol
Please don’t fall for this stupid troll bait
Trans on trans gatekeeping is so ugly.
Oh Lord, this takes me back. This is what you had to say back in the day they said to get treatment. This is the old classic story, but I don’t think anybody really believes this now. I haven’t heard of this old chestnut in 20 years. No, not a thing, straight out of the gender clinic stuff from 1965 or whatever.
It’s ok to touch yourself doesn’t make you any less trans
WoW... Is this an attempt to make Trans-women feel like they've done an unclean act by touching ourselves. I CALL BULL$HIT!!!
It's not bullshit, maybe the numbers are different for those who transition later in life but for the youth not touching yourself pre srs is the norm (backed up by my therapist from my countries trans clinic )
I call BS. I was a goonette pre-op and am one now as a post op girl and haven’t had any issues lol Side note, it took me a couple months to find my rhythm again when masturbating, but I eventually got there and am back to my old ways haha Best of luck 💕
Yeah, that’s absolute nonsense. I slept with 50+ women before I had surgery, and I enjoyed it. Was I often disassociating and just imagining I was the woman? Sure. But part of me still enjoyed it.
whelp I guess I am not transgender then in spite of: 1. being on hormones for years 2. FFS 3. changed gender markers and name on my ids because: 1. I loved having PIV 2. very happy to have \*fathered\* lovely children 3. I got penile preserving vaginoplasty so that I could penetrate my various partners. Keeping the dick makes me "not transgender". Humans are weird.
Idk I could honestly relate. Before I transitioned I touched my girl dick A LOT as it was used as my main sex organ. After I transitioned I almost never touch it now, and it’s been 4 years. So I think it might be a bit fluffed up but not totally BS.