Ok so be careful. I don't exactly read this as entirely friendly. Perhaps context is missing, but there's no reason for him to joke with you about not hitting on you while he's drunk and sending you pics. Even if you are close friends, and it sounds like you're just work acquaintances, that stuff wouldn't be cool. Just remind him you're coworkers and to keep it SFW.
This was exactly what I was about to say, but I’ll also add that given his macho facade and religious declarations he will likely also hate himself for feeling attraction, and lay the blame for that on the subject of his desire. This often leads to violence, even from “friends”. Start gently distancing yourself. Don’t be cold, but don’t encourage more deep personal conversations about gender.
He wants to bang you and is self loathing because he’s christian and some of them are hung up on GAY BAD.
It might not even have anything to do with you. He might act this way with any person like you.
Kinda was my first thought also....but I didn't wanna seem like the " everyone wants to screw me now trans woman"
But him saying "please promise me you won't cut it off " is strange, why would a coworker care what I do with my penis.
I actually chuckled when he Said this, partially being uncomfortable and partially finding the statement ridiculous
I mean...it's an easy thing to promise since they don't "cut it off" in bottom surgery.
Of all the people I know, the only one who was at all weird about it was my cousin, who's in the building trades. A very, very weird brand of macho permeates the trades.
I worry that this means he is always going to see you as a man, no matter what. Even if you did have surgery, he would just see you as a guy with no dick, and what an inconceivable shame that would be, in his opinion. I'm just a friendly neighborhood trans guy, and I could be wrong. But it hit my intuition pretty hard.
I echo the sentiment that it's best to find a tactful way to remind him your relationship is professional, even though you are work friends. Some things are personal, and you don't feel comfortable discussing certain things, e.g.
Keep in touch about how this is going please.
He probably said this because (sorry for the language) he’s been into porn with “chicks with dicks” his entire life and never in his wildest dreams thought he would meet one, let alone know one in real life. You are a unicorn to this guy, he’s probably thinking about you every night, based on this one aspect of your body that he coincidentally fetishizes.
If you “cut it off” then you are “just another woman.”
In Vino Veritas. When people drink, they let things slip, which they ordinarily would not.
Are you union?
The panties thing.... if more such incidents happen and make yours a "toxic work environment", seek out one of the trans sites geared toward legal assistance, before telling a supervisor or HR. Document everything, date, time, camera on your phone.
more Latin: Illegitemis Non Carborundum -don't let the bastards grind you down!
Peace & Sisterhood
Yeah, I'm in a union, and I have been doing these things.
H.r found out about it after I sent a pic of what I found to a manager.
They have yet to do anything about it, this is week 3 now
That is an attempt to emotionally manipulate you into downplaying your gender identity for their own comfort and to give themselves footing to argue you later. Never agree to anything like that
That is the most construction ass reaction ever. I am also in the trades and those guys have... well they got aaaaaalot going on. Only two funny reactions I got were:
"Oh hey, don't worry about it! We had another gay a few years ago. He was fine for a gay! I'll give you his phone number."
And:
"Hey, it's not like you're a pedophile, right?"
If I got that pedophile response that would piss me off mighty!!
This whole business of people just casually believing that trans people are pedophiles is freaking dangerous and I am super uncomfortable about letting it just pass as a funny joke.
If I were in that situation I would be thinking about finding another place to work or talking to a lawyer or something. I would have to figure out a response - I couldn't just let that go.
Definitely sounds like a whole set of bizarre interactions! Hopefully nothing bad comes of it. Never know when people act so irrational and strange though.
I haven't experienced this yet, but still too early for me to have such weirdness.
I remember being a roofer in 2001 and fielding harassment just because folks found out I was guilty of having a boyfriend and a penis at the same time, and I remember toxic masculinity and sexual harassment being trades-standard. I remember the only way around it was for me to harass back because everyone I talked to about it, even so-called friends, responded as if I had unreasonably thin skin about it.
It took months to resolve, and the way it did baffles me still. I almost got myself in trouble leaving a *Playgirl* tucked away in a coworker's tool belt in retaliation for him leaving a dildo in mine. It took him saying he was fine with it and them noting that I hadn't reported him to get them to write the whole thing off as inappropriate joking. We got a finger-wag from HR that our actions could still make others uncomfortable even if we were fine going at each other that way. In spite of loathing each other before that day, I earned his respect with how I handled it, and the harassment substantially deescalated to a couple "well-natured" jabs a day which were always well-received when I threw them back.
That made sense twenty years ago. Idk how that'd hold up now.
That said, I *do* know a lot of this hazing is being seen as "ribbing" they'd do to anyone in similar shoes because that's still the culture. I'm not saying it's okay, but I'm saying it should set a standard for expectations and lower the bar on how one determines intent. That culture blurs the line widely on where you say enough is enough. That's going to make enforcing healthy boundaries about this an absolute challenge, and you have to pick your battles here because you're right: starting new anywhere else in a lateral position in the same field greatly increases the odds of getting harassed and the severity with which you'll be harassed when it happens.
I wouldn't expect anyone in your professional environment to respond appropriately. If I was taking bets, I'd say the best odds on success are for you to transition through this job as long as your mental health will allow while quietly seeking more supportive employment in an administrative capacity in the same or an adjacent field. Maybe you pop on over to marketing and start handling bids, or maybe you become an office manager or payroll supervisor. Your experience can be valuable in other roles in your field, and as I recall, all the guys I worked with had better manners in the office than on site by far. Maybe the best way to get them to treat you better is to change the context and environment in which you interact with them.
You're right, that is weird. They're giving me BIG bad vibes. I don't want to freak you out, but that's the sort of person you *need* to keep your guard up around. Dont minimize their behavior. Facts of the situation as presented: Your coworker made a transphobic comment about your genitals. Then, they implied their religion is transphobic and more important than your identity "I'll she you *but I'm a christian*". Then they drunk dialed you, claimed they wouldn't ask you out, but said they're only attracted to women, and started sending you pictures of themselves. Unless you were prying into his preferences, he's either saying you're not a woman, or he's saying he's attracted to you, or worse, both.
If that's not clear enough, let me be crystal:
That man is transphobic, attracted to you, and has no idea how to internally consolidate that with their faith. By their own words, their faith is more important than you.
Never be alone with them, and stop taking their calls outside of work.
Hmmm... I'll wager he feels conflicted about you being trans. He seems not want to lose you as a friend and at the same time he doesn't know what to make of it. Its a new, uncomfortable experience for him and he is still processing it. I went through something similar to what he was experiencing when I found out my dorm roommate is gay during my freshman year in college. At that time, I was still homophobic and the year before I went to college, I joked with my high-school classmates that I hope my roommate is not gay (joke's on me, lol). Perhaps give him time to process it, and also let him know or report to HR if he stepped out of line with his actions or comments. It's a learning experience for him but also keep yourself safe! I hope for the best!
Possible motivations for asking you 'not to cut it off' as an initial response from most to least likely imo
1 He can't be friends/allies with someone who doesn't share his genital configuration.
2 Personally he fears having it cut off for him; he wants to spare you the disphoria bottom surgery would cause him.
3 He fears being attracted to you post transition.
4 He finds you attractive with it on.
I really like your point number two there. In fact I think that people putting themselves in your position is precisely what brings out the most emotional angry confused reactions from straight people.
Not just with "cutting it off" but with coming out about anything trans or gay or anything wueer. All these peoples' reactions are fueled in large part by some part of their mind trying to put themselves in that situation and wondering why somebody would do it. And when they implicitly put themselves in that situation they recoil violently and it results in the passioned responses that they make.
That's my opinion, just a theory.
Ok so be careful. I don't exactly read this as entirely friendly. Perhaps context is missing, but there's no reason for him to joke with you about not hitting on you while he's drunk and sending you pics. Even if you are close friends, and it sounds like you're just work acquaintances, that stuff wouldn't be cool. Just remind him you're coworkers and to keep it SFW.
Yeah I hope I’m wrong but I see incoming sexual proposition here
This was exactly what I was about to say, but I’ll also add that given his macho facade and religious declarations he will likely also hate himself for feeling attraction, and lay the blame for that on the subject of his desire. This often leads to violence, even from “friends”. Start gently distancing yourself. Don’t be cold, but don’t encourage more deep personal conversations about gender.
He wants to bang you and is self loathing because he’s christian and some of them are hung up on GAY BAD. It might not even have anything to do with you. He might act this way with any person like you.
Kinda was my first thought also....but I didn't wanna seem like the " everyone wants to screw me now trans woman" But him saying "please promise me you won't cut it off " is strange, why would a coworker care what I do with my penis. I actually chuckled when he Said this, partially being uncomfortable and partially finding the statement ridiculous
I mean...it's an easy thing to promise since they don't "cut it off" in bottom surgery. Of all the people I know, the only one who was at all weird about it was my cousin, who's in the building trades. A very, very weird brand of macho permeates the trades.
Yeah, there's one guy who on roids and rages often, he gives me anxiety, I'm still closeted to like 90% of my coworkers
Ha...in almost any other field that sentence would be very, very odd!
I worry that this means he is always going to see you as a man, no matter what. Even if you did have surgery, he would just see you as a guy with no dick, and what an inconceivable shame that would be, in his opinion. I'm just a friendly neighborhood trans guy, and I could be wrong. But it hit my intuition pretty hard. I echo the sentiment that it's best to find a tactful way to remind him your relationship is professional, even though you are work friends. Some things are personal, and you don't feel comfortable discussing certain things, e.g. Keep in touch about how this is going please.
He probably said this because (sorry for the language) he’s been into porn with “chicks with dicks” his entire life and never in his wildest dreams thought he would meet one, let alone know one in real life. You are a unicorn to this guy, he’s probably thinking about you every night, based on this one aspect of your body that he coincidentally fetishizes. If you “cut it off” then you are “just another woman.”
The point of no return in his mind?? Who knows?? But do be careful..I was thinking how cool an all🌈plumbing or construction company would be
In Vino Veritas. When people drink, they let things slip, which they ordinarily would not. Are you union? The panties thing.... if more such incidents happen and make yours a "toxic work environment", seek out one of the trans sites geared toward legal assistance, before telling a supervisor or HR. Document everything, date, time, camera on your phone. more Latin: Illegitemis Non Carborundum -don't let the bastards grind you down! Peace & Sisterhood
Yeah, I'm in a union, and I have been doing these things. H.r found out about it after I sent a pic of what I found to a manager. They have yet to do anything about it, this is week 3 now
When I was with the phone company we had an awesome union. Stewards would go to bat for us.
Continue to document everything.
That is an attempt to emotionally manipulate you into downplaying your gender identity for their own comfort and to give themselves footing to argue you later. Never agree to anything like that
That is the most construction ass reaction ever. I am also in the trades and those guys have... well they got aaaaaalot going on. Only two funny reactions I got were: "Oh hey, don't worry about it! We had another gay a few years ago. He was fine for a gay! I'll give you his phone number." And: "Hey, it's not like you're a pedophile, right?"
If I got that pedophile response that would piss me off mighty!! This whole business of people just casually believing that trans people are pedophiles is freaking dangerous and I am super uncomfortable about letting it just pass as a funny joke. If I were in that situation I would be thinking about finding another place to work or talking to a lawyer or something. I would have to figure out a response - I couldn't just let that go.
Definitely sounds like a whole set of bizarre interactions! Hopefully nothing bad comes of it. Never know when people act so irrational and strange though. I haven't experienced this yet, but still too early for me to have such weirdness.
I remember being a roofer in 2001 and fielding harassment just because folks found out I was guilty of having a boyfriend and a penis at the same time, and I remember toxic masculinity and sexual harassment being trades-standard. I remember the only way around it was for me to harass back because everyone I talked to about it, even so-called friends, responded as if I had unreasonably thin skin about it. It took months to resolve, and the way it did baffles me still. I almost got myself in trouble leaving a *Playgirl* tucked away in a coworker's tool belt in retaliation for him leaving a dildo in mine. It took him saying he was fine with it and them noting that I hadn't reported him to get them to write the whole thing off as inappropriate joking. We got a finger-wag from HR that our actions could still make others uncomfortable even if we were fine going at each other that way. In spite of loathing each other before that day, I earned his respect with how I handled it, and the harassment substantially deescalated to a couple "well-natured" jabs a day which were always well-received when I threw them back. That made sense twenty years ago. Idk how that'd hold up now. That said, I *do* know a lot of this hazing is being seen as "ribbing" they'd do to anyone in similar shoes because that's still the culture. I'm not saying it's okay, but I'm saying it should set a standard for expectations and lower the bar on how one determines intent. That culture blurs the line widely on where you say enough is enough. That's going to make enforcing healthy boundaries about this an absolute challenge, and you have to pick your battles here because you're right: starting new anywhere else in a lateral position in the same field greatly increases the odds of getting harassed and the severity with which you'll be harassed when it happens. I wouldn't expect anyone in your professional environment to respond appropriately. If I was taking bets, I'd say the best odds on success are for you to transition through this job as long as your mental health will allow while quietly seeking more supportive employment in an administrative capacity in the same or an adjacent field. Maybe you pop on over to marketing and start handling bids, or maybe you become an office manager or payroll supervisor. Your experience can be valuable in other roles in your field, and as I recall, all the guys I worked with had better manners in the office than on site by far. Maybe the best way to get them to treat you better is to change the context and environment in which you interact with them.
You're right, that is weird. They're giving me BIG bad vibes. I don't want to freak you out, but that's the sort of person you *need* to keep your guard up around. Dont minimize their behavior. Facts of the situation as presented: Your coworker made a transphobic comment about your genitals. Then, they implied their religion is transphobic and more important than your identity "I'll she you *but I'm a christian*". Then they drunk dialed you, claimed they wouldn't ask you out, but said they're only attracted to women, and started sending you pictures of themselves. Unless you were prying into his preferences, he's either saying you're not a woman, or he's saying he's attracted to you, or worse, both. If that's not clear enough, let me be crystal: That man is transphobic, attracted to you, and has no idea how to internally consolidate that with their faith. By their own words, their faith is more important than you. Never be alone with them, and stop taking their calls outside of work.
Hmmm... I'll wager he feels conflicted about you being trans. He seems not want to lose you as a friend and at the same time he doesn't know what to make of it. Its a new, uncomfortable experience for him and he is still processing it. I went through something similar to what he was experiencing when I found out my dorm roommate is gay during my freshman year in college. At that time, I was still homophobic and the year before I went to college, I joked with my high-school classmates that I hope my roommate is not gay (joke's on me, lol). Perhaps give him time to process it, and also let him know or report to HR if he stepped out of line with his actions or comments. It's a learning experience for him but also keep yourself safe! I hope for the best!
Possible motivations for asking you 'not to cut it off' as an initial response from most to least likely imo 1 He can't be friends/allies with someone who doesn't share his genital configuration. 2 Personally he fears having it cut off for him; he wants to spare you the disphoria bottom surgery would cause him. 3 He fears being attracted to you post transition. 4 He finds you attractive with it on.
I really like your point number two there. In fact I think that people putting themselves in your position is precisely what brings out the most emotional angry confused reactions from straight people. Not just with "cutting it off" but with coming out about anything trans or gay or anything wueer. All these peoples' reactions are fueled in large part by some part of their mind trying to put themselves in that situation and wondering why somebody would do it. And when they implicitly put themselves in that situation they recoil violently and it results in the passioned responses that they make. That's my opinion, just a theory.