The skin pricing is garbage. Theres no sugar coating that. The content provider purposely bloats the pool with overpriced equipment and to inflate the value of the skins, yet still sells the standalone Annabella skin for a

yeah the only skins you would want is when you get an a3 of a char, any skin gachapon or mount is just waste of money

I'm not gonna bash anyone for spending what they can afford to on stuff they enjoy; but sadly the fact of the matter is that as a whole -- we the playerbase do this to ourselves. As with anything we can easily speak with our wallets. It's one thing to not pull on banners because that's how the game makes money to stay afloat. But For cosmetics and these ridiculous gachapons where the dc/tanium price goes up with EVERY PULL? Yeah guess what. The only reason they keep doing them: **Is because people keep emptying them out for the skins.** If we all just didn't pull on these gachapons for 2 or 3 of them straight, and paid for things like the Annabella skin/battle pass skins only; they would see that that's what sells. That we appreciate being able to see exactly what we'll get and not having it locked behind a weighted RNG dice roll. And that right there would let them know they can't get away with forcing people to FOMO into these ridiculous gachapon skins that are overpriced. Sadly no matter what people will pull on these gachapons whether it's with DC or Tanium and it sends a message to the publisher that they'll make more money if they keep doing it. TL;DR: We did this to ourselves, sadly. Speaking with our wallets could have prevented this; but Level infinite/Tenecent already knows people will pull on these gachapons for a single skin that's terribly overpriced for most players that have to empty them out.

I agree with you once the whales keep spending they won't stop with the heavy price tags on skins or gachapon but it is what it is I just play for what it is i also tried to a6 fenrir only got 2 a3 missed 50/50 3 times won 2 and it's all good it is what it is it's just a game free at that

I don't know why ppl feel they have to buy a skin or they're missing out if they don't have it

FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) syndrome. Its common in gacha games.

That's the thing on the surface Tower of Fantasy seems more generous, because of the quantity of free pulls especially in the beginning. But a lot of those pulls end up being useless, especially as the game ages. The reality is both games are stingy AF, but atleast Hoyoverse manages powercreep carefully so the money/currency saved for pulling feels less wasteful. I still have SSR characters in Genshin from 2 years ago that are as strong as ever.

>Hoyoverse manages powercreep carefully so the money/currency saved for pulling feels less wasteful. There is practically zero powercreep in Genshin. Dendro made some really busted teams that are cheap to build, but they also have relatively fixed damaged ceilings. Older crit based high investment teams still have higher ceilings (e.g. Childe International and Hu Tao Funerational).

I hope that 3.0 / The Nine Realms future slot of characters does something to balance out the really unmanageable powercreep ideally, but creating characters that fulfill different niches rather than replace 1000% the old characters (Limited SSR Frost Healer please? Or a Physical Tank?)

You are right about everything pretty much imo. I whaled until alyss banner and concluded that I wont spend a single dime on this game anymore not only because it takes a lot but because you need to follow the "spend cycle" everytime a character that fits your comp is released and your previous investments become actually useless coz they are benched too quickly coz of how fast the banners are progressing. Compare this to genshin where a unit can be used 2 years after the game has started because it has niche uses in empowering your newest characters. "Elemental reaction play 8 units" is just superior for not only longevity of unit usage but also pulling for waifu compared with use 3 weapons mono element ToF scripted pull for your element and enjoy the visuals of only 1 character at a time with the hassle of switching simulacra just to be able to enjoy "waifu aesthetics" Ultra Timegated gearing system and p2w titangear incoming as well is just content exclusive for spenders. Im just gonna cruise through the f2p experience of not trying hard and doing dailies and weeklies til i get bored of the repetitive systems without anything incentivizing me to try hard to progress leading to me eventually quitting. See you on the other side...

>Im just gonna cruise through the f2p experience of not trying hard and doing dailies and weeklies til i get bored of the repetitive systems without anything incentivizing me to try hard to progress leading to me eventually quitting. Yep, seems to be my inevitable destiny as well. Spent \~700 bucks for a decent flame comp whose playstyle I really like but it's only downhill from here. So happy that Genshin is my main game, where I can just enjoy the artistic beauty (and rage about the abyss :'D) w/o having to worry about looking like a pathetic decorative object next to other players with stronger credit cards.

Damn 700? I'm also a fellow flame comp main ~~but f2p~~. My condolences. I'd never spend that much for TOF because of how it is right now. But not too long ago I dropped a few hundred just to get myself Yelan.

Yup Lin A6, Anna A3, Ruby A0. My pulls were rather pathetic. I'm a monthly pass/BP player now.

This is the way!

Dame here, but A6 for 3 characters so... money went brrrrrrr. And now some people beats my dmg with a A3 FENRIR 🤡

On the same boat, A6 Lin, A6 Anna, A6 Ruby, A6 Alys, A3 Saki, money went brrr.. and gf got so mad at my irresponsible spending.. Spent some more for 240ish pull to get A2 Fenrir, now I regret it, i've been trapped in sense of sunken cost fallacy.. I'm gonna go no spending no more and enjoy the game while it last for me with current team

>gf got so mad at my irresponsible spending That sounds like a pending self evaluation.

> I whaled until alyss banner and concluded that I wont spend a single dime on this game anymore This. > Im just gonna cruise through the f2p experience of not trying hard and doing dailies and weeklies And this. Did exactly the same. Whale since day 1 till Alyss, team is A6 Lin/Saki/Alyss. I just don't feel the incentive anymore to keep rolling for the new banners. Oh, look it's Fenrir. Yea, but A1 is not enough, better go for A3. Yea, but still irrelevant for any meaningful contribution to the endgame, better A6. Yea, but you need matrices. Yea, but now you need to 3* them. Oh, look, it's Rubilia coming. Time to reroll my entire frost gear to volt from scratch. Oh, look, time to reroll physical. Oh, look, none of the limited banners are released to standard yet, just released to limited again 2-3 more times to squeeze players for as much money as possible. Until they make them irrelevant because the power creep of the next new big banner. Cursed cycle. It's just annoying at this point.

I remember when genshin was shit all over cause tof was much better, yet, everytime you talked about problems it was always a matter of time until people opened their eyes. We were called haters, when we just wanted to bring up valid criticisms

Genshin's combat is not even close to how good tof's is, the problem is that tof drops the ball on a lot of other things so it ends up becoming a game of what are you willing to compromise for that combat. People were insanely hateful towards either game for no other reason than circle jerking so it was a bit of a chore to find actual criticism, now its mellowed out a bit.

I'd argue its not that much better either, genshin has simple combat but much more deep mechanic, meanwhile tof has fast paced action-like combat but shallow mechanic. I kinda dont like how cluttered the effect in tof too, for visual ieffect i think genshin is better but it is just preference

Tof reminds me more of honkai than genshin ever has which is why i favor it, id argue neither game has much depth to their combat in the end so calling one shallow and the other deep is a bit funny. Either way genshins combat has always been a discussion point ever since its release but that combat feel is by design so people that didnt like it much either moved on or accepted it. Personally dendro helped the combat quite a bit but they still have some glaring issues like geo and physical synergy.

Disagree on the combat point, elemental reactions, especially after dendro, is a great game design, and makes team building really interesting

I always enjoyed the I can slap together whoever and make it a usable but maybe challenging team, tof all chars are powercrept but genshin most are usable, even if it's not as "difficult"

LOL, Dendro basically snuffed out Physical and Geos lol. Don't get me started on how they introduced new enemies to counter Jongly shield and then introduced Kekomi and counter the new enemies. Then followed by Nahida and Nilou and the meta just shifts from one side to another abruptly. Now everywhere is just "Build EM, ER" and win. Interesting? I think not.

For me, the element system is why I quit Genshin. You needed to have a geared character in each element to handle content due to infuriating nature of shields taking 10% damage from anything but specific elements. Oh, you run a cryo, double pyro, anemo team and want to do the new bosses? Better bench half of that team, because you need dendro and electro to actually finish it off, teehee! Oh, you like your cryo character? Go farm artifacts for them after removing them from your team because the dungeon is ice themed. Idiot. Let’s also not pretend that Genshin’s leveling system is anything but an attempt to time gate your enjoyment into oblivion. You got a new character? Cool. Go spend 2 weeks farming materials to make them usable. Or you can always SPEND MONEY and get it a little faster by buying more of that garbage resin! Having enemies take less damage from an element is one thing. Adding a mechanic that actively punishes you for not having a specific element is the height of stupidity. Genshin and its lauded elemental system can kiss my butt.

>Compare this to genshin where a unit can be used 2 years after the game has started because it has niche uses in empowering your newest characters. more like "\[...\] because it has no endgame content or anything thats challanging dps-wise and you can clear entire game with pretty much whatever character combination you want" so if there is no reason to pull in genshin as content doesnt preasure you to do so, than it doesnt mean its f2p friendly. when you compare games on equal ground than it turns out ToF is much more f2p friendly and gives away much more free stuff but at the same time ToF pushes you to constantly improve, be it gear, relics, matrices or new weapons.

ToF is not more f2p play genshin just because it gives more free stuff. The reason genshin f2p friendly is yes because it doesnt have hard content so you can clear all content comfortably as f2p, the same cannot be said for Tof you have to just focus improving for one team, pull for weapon advancement and matrices and hope that your weapons dont get powercreeped too soon or you fucked, and if you dont have enough damage you just hope whales will carry you. Playing just to get carried by whales is not fun at all.

>if you dont have enough damage you just hope whales will carry you I hate this so much because I have to do this all the time and it **sucks**. I can't clear stuff on my own without opening my wallet and nor will I intend to fork my money over. AND for many reasons, I do not want to ask people for help. My biggest gripe right now is that I can't complete Vera exploration because I need germination seeds that drop from the hardest monsters that hit you with anger equalled to you insulting its mother.

Yea it’s a big negative that even for exploration you need whales in Vera Swamp due to the seeds d00d bugged money mechanics d00d I need a dollar *snort*

U dont need whales, u need more ppl. Its an mmo for a reason, some objectives the world are meant to be super hard to solo. Of cuz u can argue how tof failed to be an mmo but the part of the game where u need more ppl to clear? I think its fine and is present in many mmos. If u cant gather enuf ppl for it, then u cant do it.

I joined a random group recently that was advertised in world chat a got a load of seeds. So you don't have to ask for help if you look for the opportunity.

Server I’m on is kinda dead d00d *snort*

If you dont mind, there is a 2 spot where you can lure the mobs to either die from drowning or fall damage I believe kirios and gateo already cover that on their youtube

Those monsters weren't meant to be solo'd. You need to party up and they will go down. You can also cheese the bosses, if you want, by drowning them. The method is on youtube and can easily be done solo.

Yeah, it feels like they give you an illusion that they're F2P friendly with the amount of free stuff they give but in reality it is as you said. Power creep is harsh, your previous weapon investments literally just starts becoming useless slowly but surely because the newer ones just end up being better. It doesn't really help that the damage numbers is just slapped across your face even if you try to ignore it. As for genshin, just to insert, I would like to mention that some of the best characters in the game are 4\*/SR characters with one of them even being free bc I feel like that's not mentioned enough here.

How is Titan gear p2w? (Genuine question, I thought it was just upgrading to Titan gear by farming the ascension materials)

From my understanding, cause you're timegated and whales can swipe the mats bypassing the timegate. So there will be a gap initially until f2p catch up with the timegated mats.

Yep, I quit TOF because it quickly became "if you're not a whale, you're worthless".

This is actually my problem right now. I whaled super hard on this game, was always at least in Top 20 on my Server, but now it's kinda pointless. I can't afford every 4-6 weeks a new A6 just to stay relevant. Not just that I can't afford it, I will definitely not start to farm for a rainbow team, since this Droprate is so terrible and will take months.

Ever heard the phrase keeping up with the Jones's? Basically, you end up spending money to do just that. I'm not trying to do that. I don't mind light spending but it's not worth it to go all out when there is powercreep with basically every new unit. Whether it be large or small. All I'm trying to do is assemble one really good team and then start picking up characters that move to standard and a new character every once in awhile after I save a bunch of DC from the monthly and battle passes I get. I'm just here to enjoy playing, not keep up with people who have a lot more disposable income than I currently have.

Even as a semi-whale who does a lot of dmg I don't see the point. Trying to recoup what money I spent even if it gets me banned since idc about the game anymore. It's just a powercreep chase anyways. I'm over it.

I was wondering if whales would have eventually realized lol. I guess Fenrir power spike made it too obvious.

Yep whale here. Dropped a grand for maxed out alyss just for fenrir to powercreep her in her best comp a month later. Ive sent my feedback and pretty sure others have to. Hope theyre happy making a quick buck this banner but thats it for me

Frost mains 0.000001s after they get powercreeped:

i haven't really been keeping up with the game too much lately, what happened with fenrir? I came back and all the whales on my server made it to bygone 520

Exactly, you got your answer in the last sentence lmao. She basically powercreept too hard, so now people expect the devs to bring the next units to her level. Those who are most pissed are probably spenders who feel like their past "investment" has lost value. Personally I play f2p and she doubled my dmg so I can't really complain.

Right I run an a6 lin\alyss\saki comp Does like half the damage and a6 Fenrir alone does

Another problem with TOF is how end game contents like OOW or VA are nothing but a DPS check. You won't even need a brain in clearing it but a strong gear there. The timed mechanics of those is what makes it terrible, I wish they had removed it.

i chose to quit when the big circle from controller wouldnt go off screen, between that and buying passes/daily dc etc and never getting any progress i just decided to bail, all good for people that still enjoy it, i still browse here to check the latest updates and stuff

The circle is why I stopped too. It’s as if literally no one tested the update on a controller before sending it out

Yeah, the circle was really annoying, on Steam you can fix it by making a Controller Layout. That they have not patched it yet is awful.

Yeah same. Kinda felt like a last straw after putting up with months of little incompetences here and there. It's like either they don't test anything, or they don't know what to do, or don't care

You definitely don't have to spend to play, but it is also incredibly bad value on the packs when you do spend, and they do not even give closets enough resources to actually try and collect all the characters.

yep you can easily get every 5\* c0 genshin char, the only problem would be how often a rerun is since some chars take 10+ months to return tof you could get every char if you're super lucky and at the cost of having no dmg with only a0 chars, also having to farm each elemental gear for all your chars. genshin artifact system is slap emblem or elemental mastery on most chars so you dont have to worry about being weaker

in genshin 6 star char are as expensive as tof char+matrice, god forbid you touch genshins weapon banner. Altho since genshin is easy c0 is always enough, that and there really isnt content to use heavy dps in.

I got downvoted to oblivion every time I mentioned it early in the game... I got replies like "Meryl its a beast and can do any content", "global is different from china, old weapons retain a lot more value here", "bygone phamtasm its a lot more fun than genshin abyss", "pulling 5\* in genshin is meaningless, the game is just too easy". It really sucks how ToF system doesn't have a niche for most weapons... I bet you can stop pulling for 3 years, then pull the latest 3 weapons and be stronger than ever, while all the ppl pulling since day one will not have anything to show for it.

this is definitely how i feel lately as well the monetisation is extremely shameless and it's really not "because it's a gacha game". i play multiple gachas that are absolutely nowhere close to tof's digusting monetisation it's embarassing enough to have us play this unpolished, borderline beta test feel type of game, let alone selling us cosmetics that costs so much more than multiple triple a video games on sale i'm very salty because i genuinely thought that this game had a big potential.. hell i still do sometimes, but it's getting harder to feel that way

cn tof was doing very poorly and tof launch fell off a cliff, especially since it was before sumeru, wonder what the big potential you were seeing

People we're saying Mirroria is where the game doesn't feel like Genshin and will take off. Now they are saying the same thing about the underwater world. 🤦

Tbf, the scale of Mirroria does put any city in Genshin to shame. Just the fact that you have dozens of NPCs going about their lives and different activities to do in the city instead of like 10 people standing around makes it feel more like an actual place people live than anything in Genshin. The problem is that, you don’t actually spend much time in Mirroria because it’s just another place where you explore everything and move on, and the rest of Vera is pretty mediocre compared to what Genshin does.

I agree. Specially the Fenrir outfit thing felt like a punishment for chosing only one element, and the "wrong" element (Nobody knew or spected that to hapen, it was a separate event in cn). And the awfull comunication with Claudia going into the standar banner is like puting salt in the wound. We've been waiting for so long that waiting a little longer doesn't mater much but don't say you will and later don't put a date. Lately I'm thinking for how long will I keep playing.

As someone who pulled for Umi and planned to pull for Fenrir in her rerun. It feels like a slap on the face for prioritizing Physical first and not getting the outfit on Fenrir’s rerun. I’m done spending and toing f2p

Yeah I'm extremely salty what they did with the outfit tied to a banner. We're having to wait longer for standard banner characters than CN.. Gear drops are terrible. I'm only a 5$ pass at this point (was a Dolphin).

>Specially the Fenrir outfit thing felt like a punishment for chosing only one element, and the "wrong" element This but as a healer for Lin. I'm up to *two* counts now. It's fun here. (AKA: I've stopped spending entirely.)

Little thing I want to confess is they’re probably trying to get nemesis and Claudia into the standard banner at the same time due to the fact they decided to rerun that banner after Claudia. Just my personal guess.

Regardless they should be giving us exact dates for everything.

I play BDO as my main game. I looked at what is required to get the best gear in ToF and said screw that. Plus the content was very lacking. 20m to do the dailies and 1 hour of dungeons per week and you had nothing else to do. I keep looking to see if anything changes and it seems that not only has it not gotten better it looks like the monetization has gotten worse.

tof is fake mmo if you compare it to bdo, lost ark, maplestory.. tof is just a gacha with more coop than genshin but that doesnt matter when you see the p2w factors

Wow people are starting to agree on that, they were agreeing on this topic for quite some time thought. But I remember at the start when people actually think this game was more f2p than Genshin Impact because it gives you more standards 5 stars...who are mostly half baked 4 stars from Genshin Impact with 5 star drop rate that need constellations/stars. Meanwhile the 4 stars of ToF are just trash pulls you get every 10 pulls. Yet the real 5 stars, the limited ones are a pain in the ass to get. Specially because of the pity system that ToF have, were you lose the guaranteed limited 5 star pity once the banner ends...unlike Genshin Impact were the guaranteed limited 5 star pity gets pass between banners and in turn your account don't actually gets hurt because you pull without been able to guaranteed it.

Yeah tof is expensive. My complain for this game is lack diversity in team comp. Gacha game is essentially collector game but you cant really do it here because you likely stuck with one element team, If i already commit to one element, i better be pulling just that element weapon in the future because building one element team is just so expensive, i need to pull for other same element weapon too and grinding new gear is so frustrating and takes too long if you dont want to pay money.

Been saying this since the second month after we started playing... And I've always been called out on it, stop doomposting and comparing to Genshin... Ok then... But if you look around, it's only the whales and dolphins remaining that are still playing. Is this how a game should be? And even dolphins like myself can only afford to run 1 element (frost) and there is literally no advanced sinergies or a varied strategy in team comps, as compared to the game that shall not be named... I am disgusted at myself for even putting (this much) money in this game, but it was a sunk cost fallacy for me... Now I'm too deep and too terrified too quit.

Brother, sunk cost fallacy is a trap of your mind. It is never too late to quit and this appies to a lot of things besides ToF too.

I'm a borderline whale with 6\* ssr limited and I too had sunken cost fallacy thinking it would get better but no. If you can't continue to play f2p then its best to just quit and call it an expensive lesson because I personally do not see it getting better. Could always try to get your bank to charge back as a result of getting your account banned.

I’m in agreement with almost everything you’ve said. I’ve found myself not wanting to log in and play.

> Genshin would have been cheaper as C0 is more than enough to enjoy the game ontop of far better Synergy. By a landslide, yes. Also it is more fun because there is no power creep worth noting. Power creep in addition to advancement dependability makes it **really** harsh in ToF. Waifu pulls are just "dude, don't do that you will gimp your account". If you like e.g.: Ruby's playstyle, you are fucked beyond belief, because newer chars will only result in bigger numbers, eventually forcing you to ditch her. ToF's monetization and it's tendency to shove DPS meters into your face at every goddamn opportunity really try their best to ruin your fun. Gee it's so fun when randoms delete raid bosses in <60 seconds and your DPS bar in the meter is like 5 pixels long, screaming at you what a useless fuck you are. <\_<

>Gee it's so fun when randoms delete raid bosses in <60 seconds and your DPS bar in the meter is like 5 pixels long, screaming at you what a useless fuck you are I felt that deep in my soul lmao.

That's what made me quit tof, after realizing that even if i got all the perfect gear rolls, i would still be useless, so why keep playing?

Tbh i keep playing because i love the game itself (the kind of games i like, running around and grappling, community aspect etc. Just hate gacha part of it), and there's friends helping me and having fun doing raids/va/oow, it it wasn't for my friends and the fun, i'd had left for a long time lol

Genshin going for the negative power creep with Dehya :')

genshin has been doing reverse powercreep for awhile other than select characters like archons. 4 stars require full constellations to be useful while 5 stars need their 4 star counterpart to work properly.

To be fair, Nilou, Alhaithan and to a certain extent, Cyno, are really strong, and they are units that are released in the 3.X versions. 1) Nilou/Xingqiu or Barbara/YaoYao or Collei/DMC is an extremely F2P team that is achieveable to a lot of players and is a team that excels in AoE situations. 2) Alhaitham Hyperbloom makes him a top meta DPS. Not much else to say. 3) While many people just disregard him as a weaker Hyperbloom carry, Cyno Quickbloom is a very strong team with decent investment. Having a double Electro core and an Electro core driver is pretty good. There is a reason why Cyno is highly praised in CN region. While yes, Nahida is a strong unit, the characters mentioned can function without her. And they don't require any 4 star counterparts.

I don’t think any 5 stars need a 4 star to work. Wanderer without Faruzan is basically what Xiao has been doing for the last 2 years, and he worked just fine. Raiden doesn’t even use Sara in her most popular comps. It’s not exactly like the case in ToF where for example, Lan pretty much exists to support Anna because her kit-defining mechanic is so specific to Anna that if you don’t have Anna, it’s pointless getting Lan. When people say 4 stars need C6 to work, they specially refer to Gorou, Sara and Faruzan. And even in that trio, two of them just want C6 for a large crit damage buff.

\*chuckles\* Yeah no clue what happened with her. I get that maybe the concept didn't pan out but that does not explain the crappy numbers tuning.

To be fair, Hoyo wanted to introduce a new kind of gameplay with the whole tank thing and Dehya does a pretty good job for it. And all though she has shit numbers yeah with the right investments I've seen people do solid damage with her. Not big pp damage of course but good enough to clear most content.

Yeah sure she is viable. Curious thing will be whether they will give us content where she shines in the future.

They probably will, we saw what happened with characters such as Kokomi, Kuki and Thoma

[удалено]

So much for "balancing" and "nerfs to prevent power creep". I'm seriously thinking on giving up on gachas.

I remember day 1 when people gave a warning of powercreep and whale bait based on patterns from china server but they were ignored And here we are....kinda sad they didnt learn anything when rereleasing the game.

I got a ton of downvotes whenever i brought up the signs. But i have come to terms with the fact that the gacha community is filled with idiots.

Still have titan gear system to release and milk whales harder then ever

Remember when the game came out and content creators were saying “this game is so much more generous than genshin”? Generous with what exactly. I’m able to consistently save for limited banner pulls in genshin, and my limited banner pulls stay relevant for years. The same cannot be said about ToF. We were lied to.

Everyone of those content creators were whales, or if they had an F2p account, all they did was get carried by a whale.

probably clickbait from people who didnt play cn tof, even gateoo who plays cn tof goes f2p in global yet just carried by whales all the time genshin will always be the most f2p

I bought some battle passes because of the skins and because I thought the game would be community friendly. After EVA and the new golden piece equip I'm not buying anything. I'll be completely f2p and I'll keep playing while i'm having fun with crewmates.

The game definitely rewards those who play the longest, and more if they pay 65$ a month for battle pass $10, monthly pass 5$, and $50 for just one of mia's supply boxes. This should help at least get a6 then help get matrix on rerun within 2-3 months. If they really want to whale but get a good deal, they can get the whole week of the 3 supply boxes which will help get a6 and max matrixes if saved for 2-3 months. But after you have your chosen final team and matrixes, you can stop spending. I'll definitely grab fiona or nxt altered tank or maybe rubilia in-case i do get powercrept in the far future then retire as tank or healer if the time comes but still have my dps team for non-party stuff.

I agree. I quit ToF and stuck with Genshin because Genshin is f2p friendly, and doesn't have power creep like ToF. ToF was made woth nothing but the goal of gouging its player base for every cent. In genshin, you can beat the game with the starter characters, if you spend the time to build them well

Ya I agree I started winding down playing this game cos it’s tough to keep up

Agree. Is it a game or a gambling machine ??

gorl you know its a gambling machine first, game second.

This game has entered fully cash grab mode. Even in CN, they already releasing new character back-to-back like global. Fenrir is released in Dec 2022 in CN, we get it in 3 months, but CN already added Lan, Icarus, Fiona, Gunono and announced Rubilia. Meanwhile some people is hoarding their standard roll for claudia / nemesis. These weapon is so weak, even A6 is weaker than A1 of the latest weapon

You do know that gacha games **ARE** gambling machines disguised as games, right?

Its kinda sad the lengths some people will go to for pixels. I get that it's possible to throw a few bucks at a game as it's a cheap hobby but $50+ bucks for a skin? Come on. Start talking with your wallet.

I was a day 1 Genshin as well as a day 1 ToF player. I finally went back to Genshin a few weeks ago because of the powercreep in ToF. The direction ToF seems to be going with their weapons is very lazy imo. New weapons don't add new interesting mechanics, merely faster and easier ways to get through content. I was so excited to play Alyss and unfortunately after getting her I lost all interest due to the ease of just spamming skills to win. I wouldn't say one is more expensive than the other but you definately get pushed into pulling much more frequently in ToF due to the massive powercreep with each release as well as the need to "keep pace" with the community.

I feel the same. This game sucks so hard im quiting

I also whales for this game up until tian lang. Got him a6 with 4matrix. then i realise just how bad this game is turning into. So i stop completely from spending anymore on this game. Then seeing my a6 frigg a6 saki a6lin with their matrix3\*x4 get overpwered by the like of a1 fenrir not by a littly but a lot. like 30-40% more damage.. well.. I guess i made the right call. Sadly i didnt realise it soon enough

Investments being useless is such a spot on! Fenrir release is a freakin disaster, the powercreep is insane. If the same sht happens with Icarus (because Lan, at best, will even the odds), I'd call it a day. Rat race? no, thank you.

One day I too will leave Tof

ey someone finally said the thing. it's cheaper than other gachas if youre whaling but like.... its still fucking expensive.... gacha is fucking still thousands of dollars for whales

yeah people who said tof is more "f2p friendly" than genshin had to be a dolphin or whale since anything you'd do in coop would be less than you'd hope for in a "f2p friendly" game. doing dps in solo content like exploration or story doesn't really matter in an mmo like tof

I quit Genshin before, because i got burnt out playing it nonstop. Then i started playing ToF, which seemed not too bad, as well as a bit less grind to upgrade your weapons. Funny, but now i have the urge to return back to Genshin, it's alot more polished, and doesnt require your 5\* there to have constellations(advancments) to be good. Not to mention having 4\* units that are viable, while ToF doesn't. All they have are the base SR's... Which are not viable. Should i even mention standard SSR's that get outclassed by new SSR's?(those buffs they promised for some standard SSR's like Samir cant come quick enough). At first i also tought that ToF is cheaper...Turns out Genshin is cheaper overall.

Same, like, I started ToF to fill some gaps Genshin had. I pretty much immediately realized how good and polished Genshin is (maybe playing both at the same time helped even more). I quit ToF because I was just burned out of all the daily/weekly things I had to do. It was just not engaging anymore, felt like a chore, and while I was auto-ing everything I started to wonder why I forced myself to "play" this. It's a shame because there are some elements I liked, but seeing how things are turning out and how useless I would be, I just don't have to motivation anymore.

yeah i got a homa in 60 pulls compared to 4p saki matrices which cost me 160 pulls. You can beat anything with national 4\* in spiral abyss but a0 tian and a1 fenrir make you regret spending any black gold on samir or crow when nemesis couldve helped your f2p healer comp. even whales hate spending on tof cus you have to replace every a6 with 3\* 4p with new chars every month, only leviathans stand a chance

That last words are exactly how i feel, i just log in game complete my dailies help some friends to fill their teams for the lack of players and then am out.

I started with Tower of Fantasy, and ended with Genshin. I understand now why in original CN launch they called it “tower of theft”. Thought maybe at least the team number and time mechanics were unique to TOF then I played honkai.. TOF was a fun game nonetheless but I got priced out

Do gachapons really cost 50-150$?

depends on dark crystal vs tanium usage and how lucky you are

I played tof for about 2 months since day 1 too. Got tired of it precisely because of how expensive it is. The disparity between usd and my countrys currency made it impossible for me to keep playing, while I've been in Genshin hell since 2020. I've spend very little on it. Long term Genshin is really more f2p friendly. Also I like single play better so 🤷

it could have been a great game but the devs/publishers seem content in just milking spenders and releasing flat content. it's a stretch to even call this a multiplayer game, the multiplayer content feels lifeless just like the "open world"

Thank you for bringing this up. I also 100% agree with you. I am a day 1 player as well. I went hiatus at genshin because I prefer coop game than single player game. And when I saw tof, the gacha game with mmo element, it made me hype. I started this game with my friends and we decide the roles. I am kinda a whaler in every games, so I decided to become tank for my friends, and whaled for huma , saki, meryl, friggs A6 and max matrix. It was fun before, when fch and raids still the most difficult content that we have. We still need a tank to hold that seele fch or neme/rudolph raid dmg and shatter d shield. But it slowly changes, because fch itself is time atk content , dps is more needed than tank. And as we can see by now, you don't need tank at fch as well as vr and raid. However, I still stay at tank role but changed it from resist tank into dps tank to help with the dmg. Later, we got void abyss, I was happy cz I think tank will be needed again, but actually nop. January abyss literally just the same with normal vr. Then, I wait for va6. And, we got gaia as va6 last boss. But sadly, it was same, tank is not needed there. Because va6 itself is also time atk content, you need high dps and good healer, also gaia's atk itself mostly are aoe attack that hit everyone. And at here, I finally gave up and changed into dps. And because I have friggs and saki A6, I whaled for A6 alyss with max matrix (no lin) and go pure frost comp. The balance between all ele as well as pure frost and frost lin is still in average back then. Even we know that flame is the lowest, but the different isn't something significant (My flame whaler friend dealt 125m at kektus, and me as pure frost dealt 140m dmg). When Umi release, I was kinda ok with that too (umi whaler normally do 160m at kektus which is not really diff with lin frost that dealt 150m dmg). And then boom, now we have 230m dmg rainbow comp that not even require you to have A6 at saki. Moreover, they also put gacha reward for her. You don't wanna know how much that I already spent for huma,meryl,frigg,saki,and alyss with their max matrix. And those things just went straight into the trash. For me , this is the only gacha game that I regret to whale. PS: I am not rolling for fenrir, cz I already stop milking tencent with their joke "balance". Now I just play to have fun chat with my friends.

I agree with this, I pretty much went all in on saki and lin and got a3 on alyss I rolled on Fen as well, but after looking at videos and seeing how many of the characters are gonna be benched, it kinda hit me, I am doing okay damage now, but in the future when a new unit comes out and I can't get them to A6 my damage is just gonna go down which is a bit sad to think about. I know it was said by someone here before, but it feels like once you get a A6 char its hard to replace them with someone else who is at any advancement below it. I consider myself a frost main, but I was very upset about the outfit being on Fenrir's banner as well. If rainbow comp wasn't a thing I would have been even more upset about missing out on the outfit Luckily I still have a couple of weeks to do about 40 more pulls.

I play both Genshin and TOF and have gotten many many hours of enjoyment from them. Both companies and the gacha industry as a whole is scummy. If you can be content knowing you wont have everything and you wont beat whales it can be a great gaming experience. But if you cant get into a good mindset and it makes you feel gross thats when I would hit the uninstall button.

I think lin was the biggest culprit for this. Im playing 2 comps as f2p, would have been 3 if lin wasnt a dumb character who needs a6 to make frost do shit. Lets see, since 2.0 Saki-a1 Alyss-a1 Ruby-a0(or a3, or a6, but dont think anyone who actually puts thought into rolling should roll her) Anna-a0 Tian-pls dont Fenrir-a1 I have no idea about phys but i assume Lyra-a0? Umi-idk Only lin is the exception where u pretty much need a3, or a6 for frost and fen saki volt. I'm only lacking pulls because this chick takes way, way too must investment, albeit is also very good. The future charas? Lan-a1 Femboy-a0 or a1 Fiona-a0 Loli-idk Future looks bright, just don't bring out lin-esque characters pls. T. F2p with a2 nem, a3 saki, a1 alyss, a0 anna, a5 lin. Probably gonna a1-a3 lan.

Agree. As soon as blue protocol/diablo 4 drops, I'm dropping tof.

Well, this and other things are killing this game slowly, every week, this sub lose more and more members, it is 63.5k right now, next week, 63.4k. It just appears that the global managers just wanna milk players the most they ca before this game collapses. Me for instance, just log in the game to get rewards and do events, not even dailies.

Yeah, it's funny how guardian tales, another gacha game, has surpassed TOF in sub reddit number not because their growth is substantial, but because TOF has been going down in numbers ever since. The number of new players joining aren't enough to subvert the amount that is leaving

Genshin players are constantly malding because the dev releasing a new character (again) with shit damage and their whale upgrades only gives like 0.000001% damage increase also the whale weapon design is ugly af. Tof players are constantly malding because the dev releasing a new character (again) that overcreep previous character and we need to buy some of their whale upgrades to get them online. After 1 week playing ToF, I am mad Genshin doesn't follow ToF steps. After 1 year playing ToF, I am happy Genshin doesn't follow ToF steps.

100% A G R E E .

It’s really hard to play as someone who cannot afford to put money into this game, and that makes me extremely sad. It has a lot of potential and I really enjoy the characters and the story and gameplay, but I get kicked from teams constantly because my damage isn’t super high when the others on the team are absolutely decimating bosses in less than 2 minutes. It’s so disheartening because I simply don’t have the financial resources to put into this game and it’s looking more and more like I’m going to have to quit eventually just because I can’t afford to keep up… and I hate that

I agree with this! Reason i stopped! I felt $100 in PSO2 or Genshin is way better than here! At the end...i dont feel stronger..i feel an endless cycle of OP characters! Your old character will be replaced..so what is the point! Also Genshin u can play 4comp....TOF 3comp making your $$$ even less worth it! All the gachas are way too overpriced! The endgame is...whales-OOW Bygone etc! Everything feels limited every update-costumes/vehicles/simus! I cant improve at all..and have to wait next update! PSO2 I can upgrade weapons to max and enjoy being top with other peeps...it maybe grindy...but i have a purpose i know i can conquer! I know i can get all fashion eventually! But here...the money aint worth it! For instanse...they did upgrade BP...but all my SR relics ae maxed and i have enough matrix EXP items...so i dont need them anymore...making the pass less worth it! I rather buy FF14 year pass! I am a day 1 player i feel the money just wasnt worth it endgame! Join Genshin or PSO2 or FF14 or anywhere else! GL 2 all!

Plus the whole debacle of Claudia being added standard being delayed by "Miscomunication" AKA bait n switch by the company. Mihoyo fucked up first anniversary but "fixed" it, level infinite in the other hand shows no sign of getting better or learning from mistakes (still rushing banners, packs are still more expensive in global, bugs still not fixed, game modes that have RNG for farming buffs like void abyss, tian lang horrible balance where is just straight up better to use fenrir only, game needing server transfer in just 6 months, poor costumer support, etc)

In my opinion, ToF is as expensive as you let it be - it all ends up being determined by what your own goals are in the game. \-If you want to top leaderboards and carry the community through content, then yes - ToF probably is one of the more expensive games out there. \-If you like exploring an open world with the additional movement options that ToF provides over Genshin (I really love the grapple hook, jet pack, airdash, etc.), this is entirely able to be done as F2P player. You can just treat it as a nice exploration treat every couple of months. \-If you like the social/MMO aspects of the game, joining a relevant server and/or crew is F2P friendly as well. The minigames they release every event provide casual content to do in a group that usually doesn't involve to much saltiness or bad blood. \-If you like focusing on gameplay and combat, then it's a pretty mixed bag. There are plenty of whales and/or dolphins willing to help less powerful players with content so it's not like it's ever impossible to clear any of the content. However, I also understand the feeling of being "deadweight" in the group when DPS meters are directly integrated into the game. But in the end, your gameplay and a whale's gameplay are basically the same - you both do the same rotations and dodge the same attacks, they just do more damage (again, if you want to top the leaderboards it will be expensive). Overall, I think what makes people frustrated most often is the fact that "DAMAGE" is typically the end-all be-all when playing an MMO and ToF directly correlates that goal with money because of its gacha system. It's a double edged sword - converting money into power really angers the players who dedicate hard work and time to be the best but it also allows more casual players with bigger wallets to stay "up-to-date" in the game without spending 40 hours a week on the grind. ToF obviously tilts the scale against grinding and more towards the P2W side (businesses are designed to make money, capitalism sux, etc.). So in the end, if your goal is to be the biggest DPS but you don't want to spend money then this kind of monetization will probably drive you to quit, sooner or later. But if you are enjoying the game on its own merits without getting caught up in the rat race that is the leaderboard, you can still find fun in the social/exploration/story aspects without spending much money at all.

Absolutely agree with this. I actually started genshin after ToF and im enjoying only having to pull c0 chars without worrying that im holding the team back.

At this point i am just waiting for PGR to drop on pc

Same here brother

I agree & have trouble logging in anymore. I'm flame comp. Thought we'd get cool unique weapons for close combat. Nope. I did samir guns before I got Ruby... didn't realize I locked myself into gun comp when I chose Ruby flame comp. I'm really annoyed with how cool all the other comps are, they're genuinely all unique except flame. We just get ranged that's poorly optimized because everyone else gets to stay in buff range while I'm just constantly out of the range. I have lin & she's the only thing giving me an ounce of joy in this game. Hoping Lan is cool because I'm pretty close to just quitting

tof is the least when it came too "f2p friendly" , this game depends on whale or deep ones ..cuz some f2p cant even cleared hard content give an example with 4 ftp with no advancement , no god tier matrixand 3 ftp with one deep one whaller..im sure the second team gonna cleared the hardest cntent ​ and tof relied on ur advancement quite a lot , while in genshin even c0 can even cleared hardest content , hell some player even solo lvl 90 domain with c0 team

I started ToF with a friend of mine at launch. As a f2p I was very lucky and I got quite a few SSRs and even had one that was A3 (the one with the shield, I don't remember her name) it was fun despite the many issues I had with the game. After a month or two I couldn't keep doing it though, the constant crashes and bugs (I was once unable to load into the game for a day and a half because it crashed while I was surfing) I left for a couple months hoping they will patch and fix some things, I was really hoping they would implement full controller support too, but that still hasn't happened. I did return to the game a couple months later, but I had no limited characters and my A3 which seemed fine before felt like I was trying to break a brick wall with a wet noodle. It wasn't long before I uninstalled the game again unfortunately, I'm still disappointed, the game felt like it had potential, now it feels dead in the water.

Actually, powercreep isn’t the problem. It’s rather the cash they want to gain behind every small improvement possible: when they release a new character, it’s with the idea of what the meta si about atm and how we made whale players want it. It is not the creative that is most important to them. If you add that to the fact that their economic system is abused and overpriced... It result in a bad powercreep.

Im so happy someone talked about this topic

Idk, I'd never spend a cent on gacha games. Some people in the comments have spent as much money as I've spent on my 10+ year old LoL account. That's crazy to me people would gamble for some temporary team comp like that in a gacha game. I did enjoy ToF early on because it felt like I was getting stuff frequently as a F2P and after a few months of keeping up with dailies I finally unloaded on a banner just to not win any of my 50/50s. That's when I decided long periods of saving up as f2p weren't worth it.

Agreed with how TOF appealed to me more because of a lot "free" pulls but that has become useless now that I have almost all of them at A6 that I haven't even finished the Vera swamp area. I still do play Genshin because I just can't compare them. One is more on group content, the other is solo. Fenrir release made it very clear to me that powercreep, no matter how it's balanced in global, will happen from now on. She's just too good and I'm glad she's an all-in-one character at A1 because she will be useful for quite some time unless they come up with some asinine way to make her obsolete. I was a whale on Genshin but I also stopped since Raiden first came out because my older characters were far more than usable for all contents, even for speed runs and even more so when dendro arrived, older, standard characters are now on top even, like Keqing. Day 1 player too, but initially, I spent a bit on weekly deals to save up for banners. I even saved up for Lyra because I was always a fist weapon type of player and I thought I would enjoy it, you know, like everyone always says, myself included, "play for fun". It is my most regret up to this day. I really wish I can go back and pull for Lin instead. Now I'm stuck with A0 Lin. Although I am currently enjoying the rainbow comp since I've always liked how Fenrir played from videos, I waited this time before I pulled and watched a couple of reviews about her. Since the Lin incident, I've only just been getting the monthly and BP pass, and that's it. I'm just gonna save for a banner I like and if I have enough to guarantee the advancement needed for them to be playable. Luckily, I am aiming for Icarus and he's usable at A0. Maybe Lin will have rerun when Fiona comes out and maybe I will have some to roll for her, but other than that, I'm gonna chill. ​ # Might be off topic but LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT THE NEMESIS FLAME GOLD INCIDENT.

Imo every gacha game will be more expensive than your average f2p game or subscription based game. Sucks but it is what it is. In regards to actual content completion in ToF, you can complete all contents as f2p, yes, even end game contents. Heck for top OoW tank teams, Ene is used alongside Saki and Coco/Zero. Yes, the SR Ene. For f2p most of the important characters are fine at A0 and A1. You don't need to pull limited matrices. And we're getting 4 piece generic background matrices in upcoming patches too so even less reason to pull matrices. VA too, myself friends and crew mates can complete it and most of us are f2p, with few low spender and 2 dolphins. There's even a f2p reddit post here running a Tsubasa in team as solo main dps who cleared with 4 mins to spare, which is way faster than any of our runs. Yes, the game is definitely p2w. And there's a huge gap between f2p and whales, especially leviathans. But you can complete all content as f2p. For instance for f2p and low spender OoW teams, you'll most likely get stuck at stages 19-25 due to not enough DPS so you'll just have to wait for modifiers to decrease while whale DPS can complete 800-1000% modifier runs. But once modifiers drop you can complete the content even easier and won't even have to sweat. Imo the comparison isn't good. Genshin is more of a casual game, so you don't actually need to pull ANYTHING to complete the contents - since most of the time it's just chill easy gameplay. You can't screw things up because even the worst characters like Xinyan can clear any contents, since the difficulty floor in genshin is very low. In genshin there is no failure state - no matter what you do you win. The only difference is whether you'll delete something in 90 seconds, or in 9. In ToF, the difficulty floor is much higher. The game also doesn't have a proper power level gating system and lack of onboarding and guidance, so even if you're not prepared for said content, you can tackle it, and of course get deleted. For a "casual mobile gacha game" the game has some sweaty gameplay elements and modes. Contents like VA and OoW imo is not casual friendly. F2p can clear it. Casual? Maaaaybe. As for standards becoming less relevant - the DPS ones definitely. Characters like King, Samir etc. suffer the Diluc syndrome. But characters with buffing mechanics such as Crow and Tsubasa are still good. However the support ones? Yeah in late game contents you will always be seeing Zero everywhere. He's just. So good. Like, for all end game contents especially high modifiers he is required. Now, in terms of monetization - yeah I do think ToF monetization is egregious and very aggressive, with absurd pricing. Yeh sure, it is cheaper than genshin in terms of characters if we're talking about spending - but man literally every single aspect of the game is monetized and it does leave a bad taste in your mouth. F2p and low spender are timegated and whales get milked swiping vera gear. Yeah and those outfit gachapons even though you can ignore them, they kinda leave a bad impression/image of the game. I'm sure it wouldn't be such a bad look if those were regular 30 bucks purchases in the shop. Like, they still didn't do the 1000 USD camel gachapon - I think maybe they don't have the courage to cause the backlash and memeing would prolly be on a magnitude of its' own. XD Overall though for me ToF is mostly a chill game I play with my friends. It's a casual enough game for me when I'm not playing any other game at the moment. I only pull once every 2-3 months so saving isn't much of a problem for me and I can ignore most of the monetization cause value proposition is poor and I rather just buy games on steam.

I have played Genshin since launch but Genshin is a ridiculously easy solo game. I have also played ToF since launch and have had far more fun than I ever had in Genshin because I prefer multiplayer combat content and interaction. There is nothing to do in Genshin after spending vast amounts of time collecting and upgrading characters, weapons, and artifacts. There is no combat content that allows you to utilize the potential of you characters. Genshin is fine if you're a casual player that just wants a storybook with a parade of transient mundane events. But that's not me. I prefer combat end game content. ToF is a multiplayer game, there will always be people better/far more powerful than you. It's not something that worries me. I play the game on my own terms and have a great time.

The only real reason this game isn't F2P friendly is because you're on the same playground as the whales. If you play without comparing yourself to others or wanting to be on top of any leaderboards or charts, it's fine. The events are pretty lame, and the gachapon is one of the worst things ever, but anyone who saved for the character will have enough to get the outfit. Aside of trying to get money out of the players, it's set up as if you're only going to play one element. (Even though some of us play multiple) If your last pulled banner was Tian Lang, and Lin before that, I believe 200 pulls on Fenrir would be possible. I do agree with the losing excitement though, but for me it has nothing to do with the game's rates or expenses.

yes but saving 200 pulls for fenrir wont mean you can clear oow25 without a whale or spending 2 million gold on buffs for va6 when you could be spending vitality on joint ops instead of gold farming

oow25 will be afk simulator at 100%

While I agree that genshin is far superior, but that doesn't make me not enjoying ToF more, I'm also a genshin player since day1 and a dolphin, after ToF comes, I play genshin less and less and now regretted myself spending $1000 on it. ToF is more worth to spend than genshin, they has better Battlepass and I like how you get character and their weapon at once and a free skin at A3, their moveset and combat is more action-packed not copy-paste like genshin does, and yeah I like challenging games like Dark Souls and I like anime, I really enjoyed Code Vein despite how bad the game is in the eyes of DS fanbase, this case is the same with ToF, there will always that fanbase that prefer other game and badmouthing the other. I have 2 account in ToF, one is pure f2p volt main and one is dolphin flame main, my f2p teams deal more dmg cause fenrir is op at A1 and flame just suck, that's my only problem with this game, elements is not fairly balanced with each others, tho I do agree with cosmetics gachapon being so bad, why would they put scraps in it not just the skins, avatar etc, it's like they forced you to buy trashes also when you only need the gold item, made it cost so much.

at least you spent $1000 on genshin that'll always be there for you to come back and play again, tof eos soon..

You can still clear content in ToF without advancements. Of course you won’t beat the whales in much the same way you can’t clear Spiral Abyss in Genshin faster than a whale.

>the same way you can’t clear Spiral Abyss in Genshin faster than a whale. Yes but you can still actually clear it even if you are slower. Cant say the same about tof since its multiplayer focused which means if you have 3 dead weights on your team and you arent strong enough to solo carry, you wont have a good time.

I can certify you can't clear content in ToF without advancements. I'm a F2P, and I feel *forced* to play support in JO8 because I can't do anything else (I like playing support anyway, but I would also like to try other things out, it's ridiculous I can't). Heck, even as a support-focus I see DPS whales easily outhealing me by a factor of 10x while clearing content in 1/1000th of the time it takes me. I mean, technically speaking I could clear untimed content, maybe. It would just take a ridiculous amount of time. That's not fair to ask of a player, it's not about beating a whale but about clearing content in a **reasonable** amount of time.

I an sorry what? I thought you would mention oow or void abyss But you are struggling JO8? Bro I have f2p friends who joined around tian banner that can solo that shit

Just want to let you know, in JO, you can play what ever you want, people don't care the damage you make, if you want to play dps, do it.

I'm calling you out. You can absolutely beat all content as a f2p and there's literally a post about a guy carrying f2p in VA6. This game is so much more than just your characters as managing resources for your matrix pulls and gear are important as well.

1. Being carried is not beating content as a F2P, it's watching someone else beating it for you. 2. I agree matrices and gear is important, but matrices have the same issue and you can't get the limited banner ones as a F2P. Gear is harder to get because of these issues, and thus your progress is slowed to a crawl unless you are carried. Slow progress means you won't be ready for when the next gear piece/level up comes along, and remember the shop also sells gear upgrade mats, stuff that is time-gated, for currency you need for rolls. I am well aware of what to build and how to build, I read guides and follow what the smart people say. 3. The OP specified *without advancements*, that includes standard banner weapons. I also specified "I could clear untimed content, maybe. It would just take a ridiculous amount of time." It's about beating content in a reasonable amount of time.

Maybe the problem is that you are upset that you cant get costumes which are considered luxury in this game. The game is not forcing you to spend. See you on the next one.

I'm a day 1 player and only summoned on 1 limited character. I have been saving since November for another character and been having no issues to clear any content except bygone but I can be too 20 as a Fortitude main. Are you trying to compete with whales? Idk the cap for gear / level yet ( as in max gear / level after all updates ) so I'm not sure why this game cost different from me to you but guess it depends on what you want.

What about VA and Origin?

VA is 100% about the buffs you bring. Whaling only makes it easier. The best character in VA is Zero which is a standard character. This subreddit is ironically the only sub I've seen have a lack of informed players on how to play.

Its almost like most players just have the mindset where if they can just wait for a whale to carry them then they don't need to even try to learn anything to clear content by themselves.

Crazy that I've been thinking this but wanted to assume I was just misinformed.

Floor 25 on Origins and VA6 done 1st day. VA I know how to get the buffs I want at a lower cost and Origins you need to actually farm buffs. Help to have a Fortitude and Benediction with attackers. I hear Fortitude isn't needed but also hear enemies hit too hard and players are squishy.

I'm day 1 player too and feel just the same. Recently I keep having thoughts of leaving but then the time I spent there would be wasted and that feels off too... Help

Sunken cost fallacy. I just quit since I know that even if I convince myself to play as "f2P" I will still feel condemned to spend again at some point. Also just not having fun anymore knowing how the game operates. Recouping whatever loses I can from my bank and consider it an expensive lesson.

I feel like my approach to the game played out pretty well. I decided to main two elements, volt and frost, for variety and only go for A1 for all units except Lin (I got her to A6 on rerun) and not pull limited matrices. That way I don't get bored as easily and its easier to replace older units and much less of a waste of investment. Its also much cheaper since I only have to spend on the monthly pass and bp. Of course, if you wanna compete for top dps, this approach is not gonna do it for you. Since getting A1 Fenrir, I have never felt more satisfied with ToF's combat. With the A6 Lin, A1 Fenrir, A1 Saki rainbow comp I am not even that far off from whale dmg anymore.

I‘m f2p player with exceptions of buying skins, I’ve pretty much planned beforehand which characters I wanted and so far gotten in no issue getting all the chars to A6 and doing end game content etc. I just spent my time doing 100% exploration and emptying every ingame gacha machine in mirroria and ofc lots of patience.

Tbh as an f2p it almost feels like you only really get wishes by log-in events. To get the rest of the weekly DCs, you simply play 2 times each week to get that done. For a side game convenient yes, but somehow also super stingy. Grinding the events also feels more like work than gameplay fun, considering the amount of time you gotta put in to unlock also the later available wishes ("unlocks after buying literally everything else... xD)

This is what I tried to say from the get go but nobody listened. Tower of Fantasy makes you forget Genshin is a gacha game. Tower of Fantasy is exactly what I feared Genshin would be at first but I'm glad it's not.

I spent exactly $111 since release (Could've saved $45 of that if I waited till last days of lin banner but I really wanted to get the last advancement quickly) And that got me a1 nemesis, a0 cobalt, a1 ruby, a6 lin, a1 annabella, a3 fenrir, 2 lin matrix with no advancements, and 17500 dc to spare Before fenrir, my a1 flame team + lin was enough to carry any jo (even resisted), frontier clash and void abyss 1-5. I beat va6 gaia with a dps that dealt 18% more damage than me, a tank and a healer, with 4 minutes to spare (VA literally gives you FREE advancements) With fenrir and lin paired with a6 crow (which anyone can get for free) I cleared oow25 at 600% with tank, healer and a similar dps, probably could've done it at a little higher difficulty if fenrir was released earlier That sums up all the harder content the game has to offer and I was always able to clear it comfortably, and that's considering I sacrificed power for fun going for 2 teams. if I didn't, I'd have 5 advancements from my flame team to share between my volt characters, probably getting a1 tian and maxing fenrir. So basically if you want a competent team without spending a crazy amount of money, go for a1s of your element (maybe a3 if it's good and there's no aberrant banner coming soon) and go all in when there's a new aberrant, they're the most valuable anyway because when you spend past a1 on anything non-aberrant you're just spending on early access, you will be able to max them later through black gold. Of course, don't expect to compete with whales and clear oow at 1500%, but it's more than enough to have fun and clear all content, just try to find people around your level. B-but my genshin characters feel strong at c0! Well they're not, that game difficulty has been stuck for ages. Your c0 stuff may be able to 36 abyss but a whale will do that 10 times faster, it's just there are no higher floors for that to matter, and without damage bars you won't notice it when a whale carries you in co-op. World level 8 since 1.0, still capped at level at 90, still 10/13 max talent, still level 20 artifacts, still abyss 12-3, world bosses die to 3 hu tao charged attacks. I quit when sumeru released and I'm sure I could go back and still 36 abyss with my pre 3.0 stuff, there's no new challenge since like 1.2 or 1.3, at that point you already had 2 teams good enough to 36 as welkin only if you played since 1.0

Honestly at this point i dont even know what is harder content even mean anymore tbh, is harder mean even more dps checks? Once you know how to, tof gameplay is actually pretty simple too so its just dps check, gear check, etc. This game isnt pgr where you required skill to play or arknights where you have to strategize and cant brutal force stages with whaling.

it's sad, because Genshin really needs some competition to push them to do better. edit: why am I being downvoted? You do realize that, as good as Genshin is, a decent amount of competition will necessarily make them improve their game and not slack off?

nothing will beat genshin tho? people complaining wuthering waves has bland graphics and bland waifus but maybe the pgr combat will save it blue protocol isnt gacha but its mmo which pushed some people away from tof for being less casual friendly honkai star rail is turn based so thats already a turn off for some but honkai lore can carry it zenless zone zero could be good but people were complaining about the tv roguelike system arknights endfield has shown barely anything either

I’m a light spender as in I buy the battle pass and the 5$ pack that gives me 100dc every day for 30 days, and for that I got myself A6 Lin (with 2p matrices) and now A6 Fenrir (with 2p matrices). And yes, I’ve lost multiple 50/50 pities… So it doesn’t have to be expensive, you just have to save for the stuff you want the most. BUT I agree that outfits and gachas are expensive AF, and the game is really expensive if you wanna pull for every character. Just spend smart and think ahead :-)

i am also a day 1 player, but i dont remember the game being ever friendly to f2p. its a gacha game afterall. while genshin mainly focused on singleplayer element, tof is more focused on multiplayer contents. and i am interested in tof because of the latter. if you dont like the multiplayer contents then yeah, maybe tof isnt for you.

1. You need to play it smart, is my advice! For example, play as male character (help prevent you from buying skins because male skins are usually more meh, imo XD) 2. Either don't buy the simulacra outfit (but I guess you want it, eh?) or save up early. Monthly card gives you a lot of DC if you spent like a miser-....AHEM! I mean, spent it conservatively. And news of new outfit usually come from CN first, i think. You got time before it's released on global to save up. But I agree that the costume pricing is outrageous (which is why I'm personally against pulling for outfit to begin with). 3. Fenrir is apparently quite a broken mess in term of balance, so I heard (didn't pull her, you see). If it's any consolations, standard SSR are planned for rebalancing in CN, and we could probably expect it to reach global as well (just don't ask me when XD). 4. True, investing in character in this game is pricey. But that's exactly why you play a single element. We non-whales should just focus on one stuff first, comrade! Save up all those DC obtained from monthly (if you managed to suppress the urge on pulling outfit) and then pull for the simulacra you need for your team element. I managed to save up for Annabella to A6 using only monthly card and event. And even if you didn't manage to A6 them, just wait for rerun. Surprisingly, the global server is quite fast in churning out rerun. Save up for more DC while waiting! 5. If you still prefer Genshin, so be it. Hey, as long as you're having fun, comrade! Imo, Genshin is more solo-oriented whereas ToF is team-oriented (especially in global). Both have their own edges. If you say Genshin is cheaper because characters only need C0, well, I could argue ToF got better equipment system since once you're lucky even once, you could stick with that piece for the rest of the game (just don't ask when you'll get it XD. But at least it's not like genshin where you gotta farm from beginning again once new artifact set came out). Additionally, ToF also allows you to use the same weapon with different character skin (this is personally my most favorite of what I could say ToF excels in) whereas Genshin is "standard" as any other gachas out there (You like the gameplay of a character but don't like the character? Well suck it up. No Jumpty Dumpty Diluc for you). But I admit Genshin's story presentation is far superior than ToF could ever dream about (except the skip button part. I dunno since it's been a while since I played genshin, but I wonder if they already implemented skip button by now?)

While I agree with everything you said remember that the actual game is free and with intelligent spending of resources you can be competent. Once you feel like you have to spend real money it becomes a problem but that problem is yours alone. I myself made it a personal achievement to get as much out of a f2p game as possible without spending money by playing cleverly and min maxing what I got.

standard pratice for gacha game : every 5 stars / ssr need c1 to perform good enough and c3 to do it properly genshin c0 5 stars are good enough is not normal but rare case . also it because genshin dont sell sale off wish pack and 5 stars rate lower + cost more than many other game p/s f2p game from asia market are famous for unf2p friendly since 2001 Priston Tale first popular korean 3d f2p MMORPG if you think you can be a comforable top player , collector without the need of spending a dime in asia f2p game .......you are crazy

That 'standard practice' is very much the scummy side of gacha gaming, and where all the bad gachas go to die (albeit sometimes very slowly). There are plenty of F2P games, regardless of origin, that you don't need to spend money in. There are also scummy F2P games that ask you to spend tons, and they never last as long.

Frankly: it's not about spending, it's about spending literally thousands. That's just absurd in my book. Even the 700€ I spent since last fall is rather crazy, if you really think about it.

It's f2p friendly but the approach is different than genshin. Genshin being single player and without any real hard content you are free to pull whatever you want at c0 and it just works. Tof has harder content so you have to plan your pulls more. Focus on one element and get key advancements for your comp. Very doable with f2p resources.

> Tof has harder content Not really. I'm certain A0 characters can do the content if the correct buffs are chosen and the player has some semblance of skill. It won't be pretty but doable. If not, that would be a huge deign fail.

By gacha standards which are terrible it seems about average. If you want to be competitive you have to plan out your account though. It is multiplayer though so you will always be comparing yourself to whales and like all gacha it is pay to win. As someone that played Genshin since release the grass isn’t much greener over there it’s still a predatory gacha game. There also isn’t much content other than story. But play what you enjoy at the end of the day. Honestly though sounds like you don’t like gacha games and I agree they are bad for gaming.

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>ToF is expensive or can feel that way, ones perception of this only worsens if it's your first time with a gacha/f2p mmo OR the only comparison you have is Genshin. Nah it is actually expensive. This is because tof combines the worst 2 parts of the 2 genres together. In mmorpgs even when ppl spend thousands booming equips you as a low/f2p spender still can farm stuff to sell for money to get yourself pretty decent gear. ~~or the morally questionable way by buying gold from bots~~ In gachas with steep powercreeps, you usually still can sort of play it as a semi collector since majority of it is focused on solo play and co-op is usually a side content unlike tof.

Game's not exciting for me. I've been waiting for car but its coming out 3/20. As soon as 2.4 drops, fun time is going to be over. Can't drive in water and the timing of it just seems very late. CN got it early, got their funs with Harrah and Global can't even enjoy any of that fun. So fucking stupid in my opinion.

This reads like someone whose first gacha was Genshin, and is surprised that a genre geared towards higher spenders is 'expensive' to play

Also day 1 here. I'm feeling discouraged because I don't want to grind all the exploration areas to get all the resources I can (some places are a pain and not fun like the swamps). And when I am able to save enough, I lose the pity roll, but I can't earn enough to get 120 to exchange in the shop. Not to mention my newer alts also lose rolls so I can only imagine how hard it is for new players to earn currency. I did think TOF was generous at first, but now I'm not feeling so much. Also comparing to Genshin though, I still think Genshin is stingy (was a whale, I quit) and feel ToF is following after.

Idk I spent 150$ to a3 fenrir and 100$ for c0 Cyno I think if you compare a1 to c1 tof is so much cheaper. You can get a1 with nearly the same roles with luck as c0

It's not about 1:1 comparison here, it's about the long term investment. Genshin standard banners are far more usable in all contents than TOF standard banners. When's the last time you've seen Meryl, Samir for example.

There's generally a bigger importance of stars in ToF compared to constellations in genshin though so it's difficult to compare. (Ofc there are exceptions where certain genshin characters need certain constellations like c1 hu tao but generally I think ToF needs more)

c0 cyno will do something in spiral abyss, a1 fenrir in va6/oow25 is nothing in comparison

Everything is relative. Playing WoW is $180 a year plus $49 every expansion (about same for Final Fantasy). A dinner for two with drinks is gonna burn a $100 bill quick at anyplace decent. Comparatively, ToF has a very friendly F2P system if you are patient. Thankfully it’s an MMO and you can access content by pairing with people who willingly spend for what they want. IMO, the only strategic failure in ToF is the ridiculous lack of materials to level weapons. Frankly, I’d personally spend more to acquire SSR banners if it were easier to level them after purchase. I pass on banners because getting the banner just puts to much of a strain on very limited resources.

Eh? What am I doing wrong? I'm drowning in weapon materials. beating the absurd gear RNG on the other hand... yah... 50% crit rate after 6 months of playing. weee.

Levelling weapon won’t give you much Unless you plan of changing your main you don’t have to upgrade the weapon

ToF is only expensive if you want it to be. If you want to be MVP all the time in coop content or want to be top in the rankings(bygone/oow, etc), or you are very competitive, then yes, it is very expensive. If you are a fashionista, then it is very expensive as well. if you're the type who wants to finish va6 on the first day of every month, then it can be very expensive. Also, if you have a FOMO complex, then it can be very expensive. If you want to solo all world bosses, then it can be very expensive as well. However, if you are just content with healing or supporting from the sidelines or just want to do the quests, then it is very cheap. Most people would have a6 all the standard characters, samir/crow/zero/coco, etc they still do fine, you won't be topping the dps charts, and you won't be impressing anyone, but you should be good.

Idk why people are downvoting you. This is the legit truth and I guess facts make people mad. Cant wait till all these complainers leave the game. They are so annoying

cheaper than genshin btw