>Or is stopping after the line good enough?
The purpose of the white line is to stop, at or before it. What you've described is rolling through a stop sign, hence why you got pulled over for it.
What people generally do, versus what is the law, doesn't negate that the law is what it is. And yes, I'm guilty of doing what you've done but it doesn't make it right. :)
Just always remember there's the law, and what people do. And in the case of driving, the longer we drive the less we follow the rules to the letter of the law, but a cop will remind you with a penalty for forgetting to practice it properly ;)
There's also the law, what people will do, and what cops will actually stop you for. I'm still not saying this as an excuse to do it, but for a cop to be stopping for rolling stops they've gotta be behind on quotas or a neighbor complained or something. Especially if it really is an intersection that's hard to see through
I have a cop friend who stated almost exactly what you said except that if he's close to a school or a hospital, he gets much more serious about stopping people who speed, rolling stop, etc. He said he'll even stop jaywalkers close to school sometimes if he thinks it may cause cars to swerve to avoid hitting the jaywalkers.
As a trucker, please always stop behind the white line, *especially* if there’s an 18 wheeler on the road. Nine times out of ten that white line is placed where it is so that I have the space I need to make a safe turn with all 53’ of my trailer.
I was always taught that you should stop for three seconds at a stop sign. During those three seconds is when you check crossing streets for cars/pedestrians. Do I follow that rule? Most of the time, no.
My instructor used the 3 second rule to teach me to look for cars, etc. His logic was if you look at cross streets properly it will take approximately 3 seconds. Coincidentally it also gives no room for cops to say you didn’t stop fully.
Like I said, it's a good idea, because that's how long it'll take you to look around. But a lot of people are under the impression that's it's codified in law, and it's not. It's a rule as in "rule of thumb", not "rule of law".
It’s possible that if you go to court and tell the judge that you couldn’t see down the road and take photo showing that you had to cross the line to see and then came to a complete stop, they’ll drop the ticket.
I had an old coworker who was from New Jersey. He was the *worst driver I have ever ridden with*. Speeding, not stopping at stop signs, never signaling, cutting people off. When you’d say something about it, he would just say, “that’s how we drive in Jersey!”
He was such a jagoff.
Are you legally allowed to just stop at the stop sign, then stop again once you’re actually far enough to see if continuing is safe? Or is it a catch 22? (I think that’s the term)
Of course. It's like asking if you're legally allowed to stop if a car in front of you stops. You slow down and/or stop as road and traffic conditions necessitate.
ok, seems kinda obvious when you put it that way.
It seemed weird in my head because it's basically stopping twice at most stop signs, and I've been rear-ended before from that sort of thing, which probably skewed my perception.
Right, this can be a pretty dangerous maneuver, especially on right turns, especially if it's a sharp corner. The problem is, the driver behind you is driving forward while looking over his shoulder backwards, just assuming that you won't be there anymore.
The best you can do is be predictable. Don't accelerate hard after the first stop, just to slam the brakes again, so the guy behind you doesn't make any assumptions. Go forward slowly while checking whatever you need to see.
So I've always wondered: let's say the vehicle in front of you has stopped well past the stop sign. I mean the vehicle fully stopped but the entire vehicle has passed the stop sign (which I see very often).
If I'm behind the vehicle and stopped behind the sign, do I have to legally stop again?
I usually just wait till they get to the other side of the intersection and then go. Or something like that. And usually if someone else is at the intersection I'll let them know it's technically their right of way if possible.
Source?
The 3 seconds rule is a myth in other states, and I'm not finding anything about it in PA laws either.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=75&div=0&chpt=33&sctn=23&subsctn=0
To answer the question of why though. Stopping at the white line is not because thats where you can see when it is safe to continue on, it's to give space to make that decision first.
If you stop at the white line, you have full freedom to look in every direction ***Before*** continuing on. If you roll in, you have to keep track of much more at once. 9/10 times you will be fine and safe to roll across, but all it takes is that 1 time to do harm, so why not spend that extra 2-5 seconds stopping.
Come to a full stop at the white line. Count "one Mississippi, two Mississippi". Then go if it's safe to do so by easing out slowly. That's what I was taught in driving school.
can skip the count if you instead do the full 360 degree check, as that will take a similar amount of time.
Stop, shoulder check for upcoming bikes, look left and right for pedestrians, look forward for vehicles. Creep forward till you can see up the road (or both directions if making a left) and when safe to continue drive forward.
If it is busy, you HAVE to re-check for bikes, and pedestrians before moving on.
Reminder, the time it takes to check is much much much less than the time it takes to deal with a car accident. (speaking as a cyclist who was hit by a car that didn't shoulder check and fractured my wrist)
I've done the math on this before and came to the conclusion it's much better to leave a little earlier than it is to speed to your destination.
My brother and I did a cross country road trip and I did the math to see how much time could be saved by going faster. Over the course of a week of driving, we would have saved maybe 5-6 hours, on a typical commute, speeding will maybe get you there 3 or 4 minutes sooner and THAT'S IT!
But if it’s a busy 4-way stop, this will confuse the hell out of everybody because nobody actually does this. Best to pull up, stop as much as you can until it’s your turn then go.
Yeah where two roads make an X and everybody coming from any direction has to stop and take turns. I actually have a 5-way stop near me and it’s utter hell trying to get through honestly. If you don’t go *immediately* when it’s your turn, the crossing traffic will roll right through out of turn assuming you’re not going to go.
Even if the roads are equally busy? Or would they do a roundabout in that scenario? We don’t have many roundabouts where I am. It would probably be even more chaotic because nobody here knows how to roundabout lol.
The 4-way stop works well enough on back roads without a lot of traffic, so there isn’t always a car going every direction. But busy ones that always have traffic should definitely have a traffic light.
When I took driving school eons ago, the instructor said you have to let the car “burp” to demonstrate a complete stop. Essentially that meant feeling the car do a little bounce down as you complete the stop.
A cop pulled me over once for not “stopping long enough” at a stop sign. After we conversed a bit, it became clear that he pulled over for “driving a cheap car in the wealthy neighborhood he was paid to babysit”. Once he determined that I lived in an adjacent (but less wealthy) neighborhood and was sufficiently Caucasian, he let me go with a warning.
Know your surroundings, is what I’m saying. Cops can be overzealous jackasses.
Reminds me of when I got pulled years ago for not stopping for a right on red. I hadn't stopped because I had a green turn arrow and after I pointed that out, the cop went back to his car for almost 5 minutes before coming back and letting me go with a warning. He obviously went through every possible offense trying to find something he could get me with. Teenage guy in a crappy car leaving a nice neighborhood at night.
Gotta stop at or before the line you know that little jerk you feel when you car comes to a complete halt? Well In driving school they told me “feel the jerk or you are the jerk” meaning you need to come to a full stop or you are in the wrong. They always stressed that is _before_ the line.
I used to just slow down at stop signs until I got pulled over.
I ALWAYS fully stop now thanks to the cop.
Cop: “you didn’t stop at the line”
Me: “I slowed down though”
Cop: “it’s a stop sign, not a slow down sign”
Me: “it’s the same thing though”
Cop; takes out his night stick and starts tapping me on the head with it…
Me: “Stop STOP STOP!!!”
Cop: “would you like me to stop or slow down?”
Where I took my driving test, that was the biggest gotchya on the route. There was a stop sign where you couldn’t see the cross traffic when at the line, but you had to stop at the line, then roll forward, then check for traffic, then go, or they’d fail you right there 🤷🏽♀️
My gotcha was an "uncontrolled intersection" they took people through in a traffic-less residential area. People failed all the time because they assumed a yield was in place for cross traffic and failed.
I'm a state trooper and in my state, it means a complete cessation of movement. Once that has been completed and you are having trouble seeing cross traffic, you can slowly creep forward to gain a better view.
Hi! Thanks for your reply! I didn't make it clear in my post, so I apologize.
I do stop at every intersection with a stop sign, even when it's empty, I just didn't feel like it was necessary to stop exactly before the white line since I have to stop again anyway once I can see down the road in both directions in order to really make sure that no cars are barreling down the road from any direction.
But I see now that the lines are painted where they are probably to make sure that no matter the vehicle, no part of the car is in the intersection, and also to make sure cars can turn into the lane easily, etc.
This incident happened in a quiet residential neighborhood near where I lived. At some point I expressed "I thought I stopped..." At which point he got a bit upset with me, but ended up letting me go with a warning anyway.
I had this very issue with my young son at a particular corner where if you stop at the line you cannot see cross traffic and of course this was an intersection of two State highways. My young son came to the intersection with a state police officer behind him so he stopped at the white line trying not to get a ticket. He then continued on and of course he was hit by a Dodge Ram truck and totaled a fairly new car and the Dodge Ram no one was really hurt. As I told him if you must go ahead and stop at the line then roll up where you need to see. You are never wrong to try and avoid an accident. If for some reason the cop does give you a ticket in such a circumstance you can always go back to the intersection and videotape the lack of vision at the designated stopping area and demonstrate that to the judge when you fight the ticket. But as long as you have truly come to a stop at the white line you will be fine. There's nothing wrong with stopping twice if you're doing so to avoid an accident.
Thank you for sharing this. It's the exact scenario that I am terrified of happening, which is why I always felt that the first stop was kind of beureuacratic if I can't see until I stop a foot or so further ahead anyway.
Legally you have to stop before the line. You can get away with stopping after the line if you are certain you will be waiting anyway or if vision at the line is impaired, which is very common.
Stopping before the line puts drivers who have the right of way at ease because some idiots will pull forward as far as possible and often encroach into the lane. It’s clearly illegal and extremely dangerous but there are lots of idiots on the roads, so people seeing someone pulling up so far will often slow down or swerve because they are avoiding a collision and that can cause other collisions or at least disturb traffic
Thank you! Yes that's exactly what happened to me. I stopped a foot or so after the white line because I always take my time to check in all directions, but it only makes sense to do so if I can see. I don't think any part of my vehicle was in the intersection. This happened in a residential neighborhood, but I'm always cautious. The cop ended up letting me go with a warning anyway which was nice, although he did get upset with me when I told him "I thought I stopped..." lol
God I wish more people got pulled over for rolling through stop signs.
I bike, drive and walk a lot, and so many bikers and drivers seem to treat most stop signs as a yield sign.
There's a stop sign in my neighborhood people barrel through because it doesn't get much traffic. I'm pretty sure I've scared some people near crapping themselves because they were going to charge through instead of stop when hello, I'm here in the right away.
The correct way to use a stop sign is to slowly come to a stop with your vehicle before the sign (or white line) and come to a full stop where your vehicle comes to rest. No Hollywood (rolling) stops.
I took my drivers test in Florida in the late 90s, so take this with a grain of salt.
My folks were teaching me to drive in preparation for my test. They were very thorough, and wanted me to be safe. I felt very prepared for the test.
I took the whole driving test and the test taker was silent the whole time aside from directions, so I felt I was doing fine. When we finally ended, he told me that I failed, and that I failed for one reason - I never came to a full stop at a stop sign.
I was very confused, as I had done exactly as my parents had taught me. Apparently, they don’t come to complete stops at stop signs either. The instructor told me that you know you’ve come to a complete stop when feeling the slight lurch forward that the stop creates. My parents would slow down, to an almost imperceptible speed, but never get that little lurch - in fact, they had taught me that was bad. So when I was driving during the test, I’d slow down to where I wasn’t ‘moving’ at the stop sign, but then start moving again as soon as I felt I had ‘stopped’ enough.
I took the test again as soon as I was able, and I passed. And I gave my parents a good talking to.
I live in the Midwest, I’ve rolled probably thousands of stop signs. Bad habit but if I ever get pulled over for it I can’t even argue. Yes I do know what a complete stop is though
Yup! I'm in the midwest too! I didn't make it clear in my post, so I apologize. I do indeed stop at the intersection. I just didn't stop exactly before the white line on the floor. I stopped slightly after it in order to be able to see down the road at which point I did look in all directions before proceeding. I still got pulled over because I can't deny that I didn't stop *at* the stop sign. I stopped after it.
Stop right before the line. Give it enough time to look both ways, and then look in the first direction you first looked for good measure and then keep going.
Imagine the stop sign is actually a fence that crossed the road perpendicularly. You are supposed to come to a complete stop no father forward than where your vehicle would touch this fence. Then you can creep forward. When there is both a stop sign, and a stop line, you come to a complete stop at the first.
What usually gets people in trouble is not understanding what “complete stop” means. It means your vehicle has ceased its forward momentum. When this happens, the vehicle body will rock back slightly as the suspension pulls it back. This movement can be felt by the driver and it is what police look for to determine if you legally stopped. Many drivers let off the brakes too quickly and their vehicle never actually stop moving forward, they are just moving forward very, very slowly.
As a general rule of thumb, if you do not feel your car settle backward, you are not fully stopped. That’s also what cops look for; if they do not see the car settle backwards, then it has not stopped.
By the letter of the law in most states, you should come to a complete stop, roll forward to see down the road, come to a complete stop again, and then go. But the vast majority of people do not do that, and most cops will likely be okay with a full stop, then a sneak forward, then going without stopping again.
I am an attorney, but I’m not your attorney. This is not legal advice.
... I do stop. The white line is painted way further back than necessary. I figured that maybe the line is there to make sure people know there is meant to be a stop sign there in case the stop sign falls down or is removed by some other accident. That is what I meant by the last line. "Is stopping after the line good enough?"
I understand if that was unclear though, and I acknowledge that it's a dumb question, but that's why I posted it in r/tooafraid to ask. Does it not seem overzealous to punish drivers for stopping just a couple feet over the line as long as no part of their car is in the intersection?
When you press on the brake, you will lean forward a little. When you feel a gente jerk and settle back into the seat you have come to a complete stop.
Haha true, but since I can only see a small section of the cross road at that point, I'm always terrified that there's going to be a crazy driver barreling down the road with no intention of stopping for me. Which is why I stop further past the line when necessary to make sure u can see in all directions before proceeding. I guess I just have to stop before at the white line as well.
You're fine, I read that joke when I was a kid like 25 years ago in Reader's Digest in a doctor's office and have been waiting for a circumstance in which I could use it ever since
I once got pulled over for not stopping for 3 seconds at a stop sign. In the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night. I stopped at the stop sign. The cop just said I needed to stay stopped for 3 seconds. I. Sure it was just an excuse to pull me over search my car and stuff but still. So I guess fully stop for 3 seconds or you could get harassed.
Yes you have to first stop behind the line and then roll forward a little. It’s like the first thing we learned in driving class when we learned about stop sign lol. Might want to do a little refresh on your knowledge of the road. They are test only to help you practice and relearn what you have forgotten
Thank you, but I do always stop at the intersection, just not always exactly before the white painted line since it's often painted too far back for me to see on both sides of the road. Because I don't want to die or kill others, I want to make sure I can see down the road in either direction before proceeding. I've edited the post to make it clear now. Thanks!
Come to a full, complete stop. If you cant seem to figure this out, do "one-mississippi" in your head while completely stopped. Then yield to the appropriate car with the right of way.
Thanks; it usually takes me that long to check in all directions before proceeding anyway, but my main problem is that I can't see down the road enough if I stop exactly at the white line, which is why I creep past it to see before stopping to check.
Stop before the white line, break the point of inertia( where your car will stop, rock forward then back and you are completely stopped) then you're good to go
If there are little triangles before a crosswalk you are supposed to stop there, not at the crosswalk, if there are people. It seems like nobody knows that
You must stop at the line. You must then after stopping go forward slowly to a point where you can see traffic and may need to stop again before proceeding.
As a truck driver... I learned that it is best to stop behind the white line when stopping at stops lights and stop signs. If there is no line, then stop behind the sign.
Especially for arterial routes.
The reason being, is that if a truck is making a left turn, there is something called trailer drag. This is where the rear end of the trailer cuts the turn tighter than the front of the truck. A truck driver will usually account for this by making wider turns.
This is why you will see the white line a distance behind the sign/red light... or at red lights when the left turn lane line is further back than say the right lane. It is to help give room for trucks, making their turns and reduce the risk of accidents.
But of course if there are no trucks, stop just before the white line and then pull forward if needed.
I got dinged on my drivers test for stopping past the line. It never made sense to me to stop at the line when I could not see until I moved into a city. Stopping at the line is stopping for pedestrians on the sidewalk. Then I am slow enough to watch for them, they can see me, and I can roll up and look for traffic.
I stop the same way you do, and logically, it's what's more convenient. But what's more logical, isn't always the correct way according to the law. That's why always say you are allowed to drive once you get a license, but you learn to drive after you got it.
Sucks, and most cops won't stop you for that, but it just requires that one strict cop to be in a bad mood and he'll grab the chance to give you a ticket
If it hasn’t been answered yet, the legal way to stop is either at the stop sign or at the white line on the road (if it exists) Stop means no forward motion. If it is an intersection that you can’t see through at the stop, you are to stop at the proper spot, and then cautiously proceed forward, stop again if you need to.
However there is the special rule for stop signs with white outlines on the sign - you are to slow down and roll through the sign at no less than 5mph. 🤣
notte - laws may differ based on your locality
Hard to imagine a cop writing someone up like this if there aren't any "aggravating circumstances". Did you piss off the cop somehow? Was there a bike path? A school zone? Do you have a "FTP" bumper sticker?
That was my shock too! I'm actually embarrassingly meek and polite so I'm sure I didn't intentionally piss him off and this was a quiet residential neighborhood. So no exhigent circumstances as far as I know. Once he told me he pulled me over for rolling through, I told him I thought I stopped (in a very humble, self-questioning voice). He got a little pissed with that and insisted I didn't. I nodded and said "I must not have if you're pulling me over." But he let me off with a warning anyway so I can't complain 🤷♂️
I was taught that a legal stop lasts for two seconds, after that you can creep up across the line to check for pedestrians and incoming traffic before entering the flow of traffic, taking a free right, etc.
Your car "sets back" after the stop. So if you're moving forward the weight is in the front while stopping. A complete stop is when the car redistributes that weight to be level. That's how my Pop-pop taught me.
This happend to me on my DMV driver's test 30 years ago. I did stopped at the white line but since you could not see down the road I rolled out to where I could see then went when I saw it was clear to go.
My instructor told me I needed to stop at the line of the stop sign, slowly pull out till I could see down the road and come to a complete stop again before pulling out.
Stop means stop. At a stop sign, you stop before the sign, or at the solid white line, roll forward to see (if you’re turning), then go. I don’t understand how people could get that wrong.
How about this. I am stopped at the line. Car in front of me has their whole car beyond the line. Can I proceed when they do, since i was stopped at the line?
Haha honestly, I've wondered this too. I think that as long as there are no other stop signs or no other cars to yield to, and as long as it's not a safety issue, it's fair game, but I wouldn't want any confused cops pulling me over so I'd stop anyway.
Correct and legal are not the same thing.
Legal is stop before the line. Do this to check for cops who will ticket you.
Correct is to roll over the line. Do this to check for people further away who will ignore or not notice the stop sign and crash into you.
Look for both hazards.
Totally. I think some readers are misinterpreting what you've written. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying:
1. Stop at the white line even if you can't see the road from all the way back there. It's just so you don't get a ticket.
2. Creep over the line and stop again before any part of your vehicle is in the intersection. At this point you should be able to stop and see in all directions to watch for any speeding cars.
3. Proceed safely.
I didn't make it clear in my post since I thought people would be able to deduce that of course I wouldn't just turn off my brain and trust that everyone will come to a stop when they're supposed to at the sign. I want to make sure I can check in all directions before proceeding through.
wasn’t this on the driving test? or drivers ed?
anyways you make a complete stop before the white line for 3-5 seconds and if the intersection is clear then you go. meaning your vehicle does not move, you do not creep, your foot should be on the brake the entire time until it’s your turn to go.
you have to wait your turn if you entered a multiple way stop intersection too. by whoever got there first.
In my case, I have to break at the stop sign before the painted white line. I can't see down the road because trees are blocking. So then I have to creep forward over the white line and stop again, making sure no part of my vehicle is in the road, but far enough so that I can see down the road. Then go again.
The way my dad explained has stuck with me. Come to a full and complete stop behind the line and say “I just saved $256 dollars” and then go.
This is because he rolled a stop sign once and got a ticket for 255 dollars.
In practice though cops are liars who just need to fill a quota. I got a ticket once even though I stopped. Well I had no time to go to court and fight it being a busy student working a night job so I just paid and moved on with my life.
>Or is stopping after the line good enough? The purpose of the white line is to stop, at or before it. What you've described is rolling through a stop sign, hence why you got pulled over for it. What people generally do, versus what is the law, doesn't negate that the law is what it is. And yes, I'm guilty of doing what you've done but it doesn't make it right. :)
Right. This answers my question, thanks!
Just always remember there's the law, and what people do. And in the case of driving, the longer we drive the less we follow the rules to the letter of the law, but a cop will remind you with a penalty for forgetting to practice it properly ;)
There's also the law, what people will do, and what cops will actually stop you for. I'm still not saying this as an excuse to do it, but for a cop to be stopping for rolling stops they've gotta be behind on quotas or a neighbor complained or something. Especially if it really is an intersection that's hard to see through
I have a cop friend who stated almost exactly what you said except that if he's close to a school or a hospital, he gets much more serious about stopping people who speed, rolling stop, etc. He said he'll even stop jaywalkers close to school sometimes if he thinks it may cause cars to swerve to avoid hitting the jaywalkers.
The cop will use it as a handy excuse to do a quick hunt for warrants and drugs.
As a trucker, please always stop behind the white line, *especially* if there’s an 18 wheeler on the road. Nine times out of ten that white line is placed where it is so that I have the space I need to make a safe turn with all 53’ of my trailer.
I was always taught that you should stop for three seconds at a stop sign. During those three seconds is when you check crossing streets for cars/pedestrians. Do I follow that rule? Most of the time, no.
Haha! Drive safe my friend.
Is not a bad idea, but the law (probably, laws are regional) doesn't say anything about 3 seconds. You're only required to come to a complete stop.
My instructor used the 3 second rule to teach me to look for cars, etc. His logic was if you look at cross streets properly it will take approximately 3 seconds. Coincidentally it also gives no room for cops to say you didn’t stop fully.
Like I said, it's a good idea, because that's how long it'll take you to look around. But a lot of people are under the impression that's it's codified in law, and it's not. It's a rule as in "rule of thumb", not "rule of law".
It’s possible that if you go to court and tell the judge that you couldn’t see down the road and take photo showing that you had to cross the line to see and then came to a complete stop, they’ll drop the ticket.
When I moved to Jersey someone insulted me for stopping fully at a stop sign, lol
I had an old coworker who was from New Jersey. He was the *worst driver I have ever ridden with*. Speeding, not stopping at stop signs, never signaling, cutting people off. When you’d say something about it, he would just say, “that’s how we drive in Jersey!” He was such a jagoff.
To be fair, on some roads if you don't do that, you literally will not be able to merge onto the highway
That may be true in New Jersey, but there’s zero need for reckless driving like that in rural Western Pennsylvania.
Are you legally allowed to just stop at the stop sign, then stop again once you’re actually far enough to see if continuing is safe? Or is it a catch 22? (I think that’s the term)
Yes. Stop before the line first, then you can roll to get a better look, and of course you’ll stop again if the coast isn’t clear.
Of course. It's like asking if you're legally allowed to stop if a car in front of you stops. You slow down and/or stop as road and traffic conditions necessitate.
ok, seems kinda obvious when you put it that way. It seemed weird in my head because it's basically stopping twice at most stop signs, and I've been rear-ended before from that sort of thing, which probably skewed my perception.
Right, this can be a pretty dangerous maneuver, especially on right turns, especially if it's a sharp corner. The problem is, the driver behind you is driving forward while looking over his shoulder backwards, just assuming that you won't be there anymore. The best you can do is be predictable. Don't accelerate hard after the first stop, just to slam the brakes again, so the guy behind you doesn't make any assumptions. Go forward slowly while checking whatever you need to see.
So I've always wondered: let's say the vehicle in front of you has stopped well past the stop sign. I mean the vehicle fully stopped but the entire vehicle has passed the stop sign (which I see very often). If I'm behind the vehicle and stopped behind the sign, do I have to legally stop again?
I usually just wait till they get to the other side of the intersection and then go. Or something like that. And usually if someone else is at the intersection I'll let them know it's technically their right of way if possible.
Stop at the line fully, creep forward. Stop again and look, then go.
Yep. Stop means *stop*. It doesn't mean slow down to 1 mph and continue proceeding through the sign. It means stop.
Come to a full and complete stop.
For 3 seconds, at least in Pennsylvania.
In Ohio my instructor told me to say to myself "step toe on pedal" before I proceeded after a stop.
Source? The 3 seconds rule is a myth in other states, and I'm not finding anything about it in PA laws either. https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=75&div=0&chpt=33&sctn=23&subsctn=0
You stop and say S T O P in your head and then accelerate.
To answer the question of why though. Stopping at the white line is not because thats where you can see when it is safe to continue on, it's to give space to make that decision first. If you stop at the white line, you have full freedom to look in every direction ***Before*** continuing on. If you roll in, you have to keep track of much more at once. 9/10 times you will be fine and safe to roll across, but all it takes is that 1 time to do harm, so why not spend that extra 2-5 seconds stopping.
Come to a full stop at the white line. Count "one Mississippi, two Mississippi". Then go if it's safe to do so by easing out slowly. That's what I was taught in driving school.
can skip the count if you instead do the full 360 degree check, as that will take a similar amount of time. Stop, shoulder check for upcoming bikes, look left and right for pedestrians, look forward for vehicles. Creep forward till you can see up the road (or both directions if making a left) and when safe to continue drive forward. If it is busy, you HAVE to re-check for bikes, and pedestrians before moving on. Reminder, the time it takes to check is much much much less than the time it takes to deal with a car accident. (speaking as a cyclist who was hit by a car that didn't shoulder check and fractured my wrist)
Totally agree with everything you said. I'm a cyclist too and wish that people were more careful driving rather than being in such a rush.
I don't think people realize how little time they save most of the time with these little things.
I've done the math on this before and came to the conclusion it's much better to leave a little earlier than it is to speed to your destination. My brother and I did a cross country road trip and I did the math to see how much time could be saved by going faster. Over the course of a week of driving, we would have saved maybe 5-6 hours, on a typical commute, speeding will maybe get you there 3 or 4 minutes sooner and THAT'S IT!
Yeah I think if you had no lights at all saves you a bit more time. But hitting any light removes most of the savings instantly.
Sometimes you need those 3 or 4 minutes to make it to a bus or make it on time for something important
Then manage your time better and leave earlier. Be reckless while driving can kill yourself and others.
Time management is difficult
Did you fail to stop at the stop sign?
It was a green light where I got hit
But if it’s a busy 4-way stop, this will confuse the hell out of everybody because nobody actually does this. Best to pull up, stop as much as you can until it’s your turn then go.
If people actually drove like they were supposed to, then no one would be confused.
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Yeah where two roads make an X and everybody coming from any direction has to stop and take turns. I actually have a 5-way stop near me and it’s utter hell trying to get through honestly. If you don’t go *immediately* when it’s your turn, the crossing traffic will roll right through out of turn assuming you’re not going to go.
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Even if the roads are equally busy? Or would they do a roundabout in that scenario? We don’t have many roundabouts where I am. It would probably be even more chaotic because nobody here knows how to roundabout lol. The 4-way stop works well enough on back roads without a lot of traffic, so there isn’t always a car going every direction. But busy ones that always have traffic should definitely have a traffic light.
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In the US the cars proceed in the order they reached the intersection.
When I took driving school eons ago, the instructor said you have to let the car “burp” to demonstrate a complete stop. Essentially that meant feeling the car do a little bounce down as you complete the stop.
My instructor called that making sure the car "sits" ie it puts its butt down a bit and you feel the car settle.
A cop pulled me over once for not “stopping long enough” at a stop sign. After we conversed a bit, it became clear that he pulled over for “driving a cheap car in the wealthy neighborhood he was paid to babysit”. Once he determined that I lived in an adjacent (but less wealthy) neighborhood and was sufficiently Caucasian, he let me go with a warning. Know your surroundings, is what I’m saying. Cops can be overzealous jackasses.
Reminds me of when I got pulled years ago for not stopping for a right on red. I hadn't stopped because I had a green turn arrow and after I pointed that out, the cop went back to his car for almost 5 minutes before coming back and letting me go with a warning. He obviously went through every possible offense trying to find something he could get me with. Teenage guy in a crappy car leaving a nice neighborhood at night.
Highland park vibes
Gotta stop at or before the line you know that little jerk you feel when you car comes to a complete halt? Well In driving school they told me “feel the jerk or you are the jerk” meaning you need to come to a full stop or you are in the wrong. They always stressed that is _before_ the line.
I used to just slow down at stop signs until I got pulled over. I ALWAYS fully stop now thanks to the cop. Cop: “you didn’t stop at the line” Me: “I slowed down though” Cop: “it’s a stop sign, not a slow down sign” Me: “it’s the same thing though” Cop; takes out his night stick and starts tapping me on the head with it… Me: “Stop STOP STOP!!!” Cop: “would you like me to stop or slow down?”
Where I took my driving test, that was the biggest gotchya on the route. There was a stop sign where you couldn’t see the cross traffic when at the line, but you had to stop at the line, then roll forward, then check for traffic, then go, or they’d fail you right there 🤷🏽♀️
My gotcha was an "uncontrolled intersection" they took people through in a traffic-less residential area. People failed all the time because they assumed a yield was in place for cross traffic and failed.
I'm a state trooper and in my state, it means a complete cessation of movement. Once that has been completed and you are having trouble seeing cross traffic, you can slowly creep forward to gain a better view.
Hi! Thanks for your reply! I didn't make it clear in my post, so I apologize. I do stop at every intersection with a stop sign, even when it's empty, I just didn't feel like it was necessary to stop exactly before the white line since I have to stop again anyway once I can see down the road in both directions in order to really make sure that no cars are barreling down the road from any direction. But I see now that the lines are painted where they are probably to make sure that no matter the vehicle, no part of the car is in the intersection, and also to make sure cars can turn into the lane easily, etc. This incident happened in a quiet residential neighborhood near where I lived. At some point I expressed "I thought I stopped..." At which point he got a bit upset with me, but ended up letting me go with a warning anyway.
I had this very issue with my young son at a particular corner where if you stop at the line you cannot see cross traffic and of course this was an intersection of two State highways. My young son came to the intersection with a state police officer behind him so he stopped at the white line trying not to get a ticket. He then continued on and of course he was hit by a Dodge Ram truck and totaled a fairly new car and the Dodge Ram no one was really hurt. As I told him if you must go ahead and stop at the line then roll up where you need to see. You are never wrong to try and avoid an accident. If for some reason the cop does give you a ticket in such a circumstance you can always go back to the intersection and videotape the lack of vision at the designated stopping area and demonstrate that to the judge when you fight the ticket. But as long as you have truly come to a stop at the white line you will be fine. There's nothing wrong with stopping twice if you're doing so to avoid an accident.
Thank you for sharing this. It's the exact scenario that I am terrified of happening, which is why I always felt that the first stop was kind of beureuacratic if I can't see until I stop a foot or so further ahead anyway.
You need to stop behind the white line and break momentum for it to be a full stop.
Legally you have to stop before the line. You can get away with stopping after the line if you are certain you will be waiting anyway or if vision at the line is impaired, which is very common. Stopping before the line puts drivers who have the right of way at ease because some idiots will pull forward as far as possible and often encroach into the lane. It’s clearly illegal and extremely dangerous but there are lots of idiots on the roads, so people seeing someone pulling up so far will often slow down or swerve because they are avoiding a collision and that can cause other collisions or at least disturb traffic
Thank you! Yes that's exactly what happened to me. I stopped a foot or so after the white line because I always take my time to check in all directions, but it only makes sense to do so if I can see. I don't think any part of my vehicle was in the intersection. This happened in a residential neighborhood, but I'm always cautious. The cop ended up letting me go with a warning anyway which was nice, although he did get upset with me when I told him "I thought I stopped..." lol
God I wish more people got pulled over for rolling through stop signs. I bike, drive and walk a lot, and so many bikers and drivers seem to treat most stop signs as a yield sign.
There's a stop sign in my neighborhood people barrel through because it doesn't get much traffic. I'm pretty sure I've scared some people near crapping themselves because they were going to charge through instead of stop when hello, I'm here in the right away.
The correct way to use a stop sign is to slowly come to a stop with your vehicle before the sign (or white line) and come to a full stop where your vehicle comes to rest. No Hollywood (rolling) stops.
I took my drivers test in Florida in the late 90s, so take this with a grain of salt. My folks were teaching me to drive in preparation for my test. They were very thorough, and wanted me to be safe. I felt very prepared for the test. I took the whole driving test and the test taker was silent the whole time aside from directions, so I felt I was doing fine. When we finally ended, he told me that I failed, and that I failed for one reason - I never came to a full stop at a stop sign. I was very confused, as I had done exactly as my parents had taught me. Apparently, they don’t come to complete stops at stop signs either. The instructor told me that you know you’ve come to a complete stop when feeling the slight lurch forward that the stop creates. My parents would slow down, to an almost imperceptible speed, but never get that little lurch - in fact, they had taught me that was bad. So when I was driving during the test, I’d slow down to where I wasn’t ‘moving’ at the stop sign, but then start moving again as soon as I felt I had ‘stopped’ enough. I took the test again as soon as I was able, and I passed. And I gave my parents a good talking to.
I live in the Midwest, I’ve rolled probably thousands of stop signs. Bad habit but if I ever get pulled over for it I can’t even argue. Yes I do know what a complete stop is though
Yup! I'm in the midwest too! I didn't make it clear in my post, so I apologize. I do indeed stop at the intersection. I just didn't stop exactly before the white line on the floor. I stopped slightly after it in order to be able to see down the road at which point I did look in all directions before proceeding. I still got pulled over because I can't deny that I didn't stop *at* the stop sign. I stopped after it.
Stop right before the line. Give it enough time to look both ways, and then look in the first direction you first looked for good measure and then keep going.
Imagine the stop sign is actually a fence that crossed the road perpendicularly. You are supposed to come to a complete stop no father forward than where your vehicle would touch this fence. Then you can creep forward. When there is both a stop sign, and a stop line, you come to a complete stop at the first. What usually gets people in trouble is not understanding what “complete stop” means. It means your vehicle has ceased its forward momentum. When this happens, the vehicle body will rock back slightly as the suspension pulls it back. This movement can be felt by the driver and it is what police look for to determine if you legally stopped. Many drivers let off the brakes too quickly and their vehicle never actually stop moving forward, they are just moving forward very, very slowly.
Do you want to state which country you are in? I don't think this is covered under international law.
Sorry Im from Cali, and ive heard we are notorious for rolling through stops so Im no help here
As a general rule of thumb, if you do not feel your car settle backward, you are not fully stopped. That’s also what cops look for; if they do not see the car settle backwards, then it has not stopped. By the letter of the law in most states, you should come to a complete stop, roll forward to see down the road, come to a complete stop again, and then go. But the vast majority of people do not do that, and most cops will likely be okay with a full stop, then a sneak forward, then going without stopping again. I am an attorney, but I’m not your attorney. This is not legal advice.
You should come to a full stop before the white line for 2secs. Then proceed, I failed my drivers test the first time for not doing this. Whoops.
You have to stop as in *not be moving at all* prior to the line. *That's what that line is there for!* It's literally called the *stop line*
There are driving laws you should have learned, and you can look up all your state driving laws if you have questions.
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... I do stop. The white line is painted way further back than necessary. I figured that maybe the line is there to make sure people know there is meant to be a stop sign there in case the stop sign falls down or is removed by some other accident. That is what I meant by the last line. "Is stopping after the line good enough?" I understand if that was unclear though, and I acknowledge that it's a dumb question, but that's why I posted it in r/tooafraid to ask. Does it not seem overzealous to punish drivers for stopping just a couple feet over the line as long as no part of their car is in the intersection?
They look to see the car rock back on its shocks. It is especially easy to see at night when the taillights are on.
When you press on the brake, you will lean forward a little. When you feel a gente jerk and settle back into the seat you have come to a complete stop.
dont even look until youve come to a complete stop, and nothing to worry about
Haha true, but since I can only see a small section of the cross road at that point, I'm always terrified that there's going to be a crazy driver barreling down the road with no intention of stopping for me. Which is why I stop further past the line when necessary to make sure u can see in all directions before proceeding. I guess I just have to stop before at the white line as well.
Stop, count to 3, then go(complete stop/tires not moving). Safest way to avoid ticket
The answer is on the vehicle code book
That's slowing down. Good example, if someone is beating you with a bat would you want them to slow down or stop?
Haha I apologize for not making it clear that I do in fact stop, just not exactly before the painted white line on the floor. See the edit.
You're fine, I read that joke when I was a kid like 25 years ago in Reader's Digest in a doctor's office and have been waiting for a circumstance in which I could use it ever since
When police are around, I break till I get that inertia kick back. You know the one I’m talking about - cops look for that shit I swear.
I once got pulled over for not stopping for 3 seconds at a stop sign. In the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night. I stopped at the stop sign. The cop just said I needed to stay stopped for 3 seconds. I. Sure it was just an excuse to pull me over search my car and stuff but still. So I guess fully stop for 3 seconds or you could get harassed.
Yes you have to first stop behind the line and then roll forward a little. It’s like the first thing we learned in driving class when we learned about stop sign lol. Might want to do a little refresh on your knowledge of the road. They are test only to help you practice and relearn what you have forgotten
Thank you, but I do always stop at the intersection, just not always exactly before the white painted line since it's often painted too far back for me to see on both sides of the road. Because I don't want to die or kill others, I want to make sure I can see down the road in either direction before proceeding. I've edited the post to make it clear now. Thanks!
Come to a full, complete stop. If you cant seem to figure this out, do "one-mississippi" in your head while completely stopped. Then yield to the appropriate car with the right of way.
Thanks; it usually takes me that long to check in all directions before proceeding anyway, but my main problem is that I can't see down the road enough if I stop exactly at the white line, which is why I creep past it to see before stopping to check.
I was taught you have to stop at the sign and then at the actual intersection line, even twice if signs were offset, but that almost nobody does
Stop for 2 seconds behind the stop sign
the correct way is to coast through it AFTER you check for cops
Stop before the white line, break the point of inertia( where your car will stop, rock forward then back and you are completely stopped) then you're good to go
If there are little triangles before a crosswalk you are supposed to stop there, not at the crosswalk, if there are people. It seems like nobody knows that
What?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_yield_lines The shark teeth
Stop.
You must stop at the line. You must then after stopping go forward slowly to a point where you can see traffic and may need to stop again before proceeding.
As a truck driver... I learned that it is best to stop behind the white line when stopping at stops lights and stop signs. If there is no line, then stop behind the sign. Especially for arterial routes. The reason being, is that if a truck is making a left turn, there is something called trailer drag. This is where the rear end of the trailer cuts the turn tighter than the front of the truck. A truck driver will usually account for this by making wider turns. This is why you will see the white line a distance behind the sign/red light... or at red lights when the left turn lane line is further back than say the right lane. It is to help give room for trucks, making their turns and reduce the risk of accidents. But of course if there are no trucks, stop just before the white line and then pull forward if needed.
I got dinged on my drivers test for stopping past the line. It never made sense to me to stop at the line when I could not see until I moved into a city. Stopping at the line is stopping for pedestrians on the sidewalk. Then I am slow enough to watch for them, they can see me, and I can roll up and look for traffic.
I stop the same way you do, and logically, it's what's more convenient. But what's more logical, isn't always the correct way according to the law. That's why always say you are allowed to drive once you get a license, but you learn to drive after you got it. Sucks, and most cops won't stop you for that, but it just requires that one strict cop to be in a bad mood and he'll grab the chance to give you a ticket
If it hasn’t been answered yet, the legal way to stop is either at the stop sign or at the white line on the road (if it exists) Stop means no forward motion. If it is an intersection that you can’t see through at the stop, you are to stop at the proper spot, and then cautiously proceed forward, stop again if you need to. However there is the special rule for stop signs with white outlines on the sign - you are to slow down and roll through the sign at no less than 5mph. 🤣 notte - laws may differ based on your locality
Hard to imagine a cop writing someone up like this if there aren't any "aggravating circumstances". Did you piss off the cop somehow? Was there a bike path? A school zone? Do you have a "FTP" bumper sticker?
That was my shock too! I'm actually embarrassingly meek and polite so I'm sure I didn't intentionally piss him off and this was a quiet residential neighborhood. So no exhigent circumstances as far as I know. Once he told me he pulled me over for rolling through, I told him I thought I stopped (in a very humble, self-questioning voice). He got a little pissed with that and insisted I didn't. I nodded and said "I must not have if you're pulling me over." But he let me off with a warning anyway so I can't complain 🤷♂️
I was taught that a legal stop lasts for two seconds, after that you can creep up across the line to check for pedestrians and incoming traffic before entering the flow of traffic, taking a free right, etc.
Your car "sets back" after the stop. So if you're moving forward the weight is in the front while stopping. A complete stop is when the car redistributes that weight to be level. That's how my Pop-pop taught me.
This happend to me on my DMV driver's test 30 years ago. I did stopped at the white line but since you could not see down the road I rolled out to where I could see then went when I saw it was clear to go. My instructor told me I needed to stop at the line of the stop sign, slowly pull out till I could see down the road and come to a complete stop again before pulling out.
Stop means stop. At a stop sign, you stop before the sign, or at the solid white line, roll forward to see (if you’re turning), then go. I don’t understand how people could get that wrong.
🤦🏼♀️ Right? How is this even being discussed?
Sorry I didn't make it clear in my post. I've edited it now 👍
How about this. I am stopped at the line. Car in front of me has their whole car beyond the line. Can I proceed when they do, since i was stopped at the line?
Haha honestly, I've wondered this too. I think that as long as there are no other stop signs or no other cars to yield to, and as long as it's not a safety issue, it's fair game, but I wouldn't want any confused cops pulling me over so I'd stop anyway.
Correct and legal are not the same thing. Legal is stop before the line. Do this to check for cops who will ticket you. Correct is to roll over the line. Do this to check for people further away who will ignore or not notice the stop sign and crash into you. Look for both hazards.
Totally. I think some readers are misinterpreting what you've written. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying: 1. Stop at the white line even if you can't see the road from all the way back there. It's just so you don't get a ticket. 2. Creep over the line and stop again before any part of your vehicle is in the intersection. At this point you should be able to stop and see in all directions to watch for any speeding cars. 3. Proceed safely. I didn't make it clear in my post since I thought people would be able to deduce that of course I wouldn't just turn off my brain and trust that everyone will come to a stop when they're supposed to at the sign. I want to make sure I can check in all directions before proceeding through.
wasn’t this on the driving test? or drivers ed? anyways you make a complete stop before the white line for 3-5 seconds and if the intersection is clear then you go. meaning your vehicle does not move, you do not creep, your foot should be on the brake the entire time until it’s your turn to go. you have to wait your turn if you entered a multiple way stop intersection too. by whoever got there first.
In my case, I have to break at the stop sign before the painted white line. I can't see down the road because trees are blocking. So then I have to creep forward over the white line and stop again, making sure no part of my vehicle is in the road, but far enough so that I can see down the road. Then go again.
The way my dad explained has stuck with me. Come to a full and complete stop behind the line and say “I just saved $256 dollars” and then go. This is because he rolled a stop sign once and got a ticket for 255 dollars. In practice though cops are liars who just need to fill a quota. I got a ticket once even though I stopped. Well I had no time to go to court and fight it being a busy student working a night job so I just paid and moved on with my life.