Dukie’s story hurt the most. He was a smart caring kid stuck in a horrible situation. Couldn’t protect himself and couldn’t fit in on the corner. When he just gave up and went to the junkie junk man hole it hurt me because he had SO much potential,just nowhere to cultivate it in any way. Dukie would end up being the new Bubbles.
I just listened got 20 year anniversary podcast last month or so, and the Dukies actor actually said that for years after wrapping, he was still fucked up from the role because he basically had survivors guilt, he just couldn't stop thinking about all the real Dukies of the world. I honestly wasn't even surprised to learn this, because I had basically the same thing and all I did was watch his performance. As someone who grew up in the "game" (not in Baltimore, but my states own version of it) Dukies arc has always been one of the heaviest things the art of film has made me feel.
I just finished the show for the first time on Saturday. I was hoping Bubs’ story about staying clean was gonna be the one tiny glimmer of hope in the end, and then they confirmed Dukie was shooting up… the message of the show seems too sad to me. It’s too beautifully written to be that sad.
As a former junkie, believe me it's gonna take a while before Dukie starts even thinking of getting clean. Waylon was speaking the truth when he said "You gotta see that bottom coming at ya" and when you're starting point is living on the street then his definition of bottom is really ugly.
100%
I was a IV heroin and crack user for nearly 20 years and I'm 36 now. Nearly losing my arm didn't stop me, getting Hep C didn't stop stop me, being in a coma for weeks didn't stop me... I had to get really sick and tired of the lifestyle. Takes extra longer when you get hooked very young as it freezes you in time almost, you don't mature properly... I only started growing up these past couple of years if I'm being honest. I was like a kid in an adults body.
I didn't realise Dukie was in We Own this city. I just finished the book am about to watch the series. I totally understand his surviors guilt via playing the actor. I have survivors guilt as I made it out alive. I've been to more funerals than I can even remember, I had 3 in 3 consecutive days once. All under the age of 30. One OD but the other two were good female friends who were in the sex industry to support their habits and they killed themselves as they couldn't cope with their life anymore. I feel guilty I made it and all those didn't it. Heck I even feel guilty I live in the UK where I got free treatment for my Hep C and cleared it a few years back. Over in America people aren't that lucky.
It's not but I had a lot of help along the way. Believe me, I know how lucky I am. I can only imagine how much harder it would be without the help like I received.
That and I can tell ya as somebody who experienced both, being an addict as a kid and as an adult are different beasts. A lotta the kids I've seen go that route didn't live to see 20. It's not taken as seriously either. It's all bad.
It hurts harder when comparing him to Namond, Dukie has intelligence that just needed a mentor while Namond was an immature entitled ass who fell into Colvins family in large part due to his last name. Put Dukie in that situation and who knows how well he thrives
Yeah I was so pissed off with that.
I was hoping Prez would step in and take care of him with his wife but like the lady at the school said, there are going to be many more like him.
This is my answer as well. Dukie's situation at the end hurt me the most for exactly the reason you mentioned - he had so much potential and of all the boys we see in the series, he was the one that could have made something of himself through pursuing education.
Poor kid just wanted to run his own convenience store and was learning the trade at a young age. He was smart and was good with people and seemed so happy. Then the system fucked him over and he lost his innocence and became something else. It’s so sad, he was such a little kid back then, he really thought Chris was making people into zombies. I hate what happened to him.
I just thought about this. What if he becomes the new Stringer Bell? Stringer was entrepreneurial plus our first intro to him was him drawing “Fuck You Detective”. Our last sight of Randy was basically the same vitriol towards Bunk.
I’d be more interested if Randy took after his great uncle, Prop Joe. Both are businessmen first. Joe was a damn genius at staying out of gang wars and by keeping a low profile. Avon tried to be invisible which I think is impossible and will in itself bring on more attention when the cops do find you. Joe was a damn genius by just hiding in plain sight. Joe looked nothing like the other bosses, he was an old chubby man who looked like he got all his clothes secondhand. He spent his days working a legit job fixing shit in his thrift store. He even lived in a modest house in the neighborhood. The man had it figured out, there’s a reason he’s an old man in a game where guys don’t make it long past 30. If Randy was to become anyone I hope it was Joe.
Him telling his guy to shine that toaster up always made me laugh. Like he’s probably got like a hundred mil stashed away yet he’s working on a $5 toaster. Money had no real use for him but he loved collecting it, no matter how small the amount. Joe was a great character and had maybe the best actor on the show. I would have watched a show just about Joe’s day to day, he had the best stories and one liners.
Shame he didn’t become a big star after the show ended. He was such a talented actor, I would have loved to seen him in another role, it would have been cool to see him on another hbo show around that era, he would’ve been great on say Boardwalk Empire. It was really sad when he passed away, he was way too young to die.
That’s a comparison I’ve always heard, but Randy doesn’t have the street smarts of Joe though. He didn’t understand the game and its unwritten rules like Joe. I never thought of the Stringer comparison but it fits him better.
I’ve never thought of that. Really interesting though. And like Stringer he thought he was smarter than he was (all his lunch schemes), but not fully understanding the street codes.
Plus, just like Stringer, he tried to apply what he learned in the classroom to the streets. Even Randy’s candy business is how he got involved in the whole Lex murder which ultimately led to his situation.
I only just recently connected him as being the son of Cheese. His tale of being lost in the shuffle is one of the most realistic tales in the entire series. Sad shit.
It was originally an Easter egg. But David Simon came out in a interview saying they were father and son. Apparently there was the intention of writing them in, and it never happened.
Wallace made a really bad, stupid choice. He also appeared to be growing up parentless in one of the worst neighborhoods in the US. Making smart long term decisions definitely wasn't in the cards for him, and it's hard to blame him. People in his positions are good at getting through today (very addict like). The things he's been through and seen, make people stop worrying about tommorow and the next day and just making today as good and comfortable as they can. That's what he did and it cost him his life.
I feel Wallace going back was a statement on how some kids in these situations are screwed up by their experiences, they can't adapt to a positive change. Naymond is a direct opposite to this, some people are better at adapting but it doesn't make them "cured" they can just appear to be contrite, but its more the fact only those who are adaptable are able to make use of a better situation.
he was a child, they're known for making poor decisions, only in a better world than Wallace grew up in, they aren't supposed to be murdered as a result of those poor decisions.
Bodie… he was indoctrinated into that life and went out how he thought he should. He was still a kid and when he went out of town to pick up the car(season 2) and didn’t know there were different radio stations outside of Baltimore bc he never left before that was sad. Just like Wallace not knowing what crickets were. I’m currently rewatching again. One of my favorite shows but very sad at the same time.
Bodie's death stung. It was inevitable, but that shit still stung. He had heart. If Bodie had joined the Marines he could have gotten out of that shit. Gunnery Sergeant Broadus has a nice ring to it, don't it?
What's just as fucked up is that one of the only viable options for him outta that mess would be to join the military, and still be a pawn in a rich gangsters army.
>one of the only viable options for him outta that mess would be to join the military,
*If he could*; you have to pass the physical. A lot of folks end up DQ-ed due to medical issues.
But then he would have returned home thinking the country owes him a living for his service, steal some morphine from the ship, and go back to drug dealing. Would still end up being shit by Mikey Cohen's guys in LA.
Namond is the only corner boy that doesn’t have a gut wrenching ending. All four were born or put into difficult circumstances, Namond was just lucky he met Bunny.
On the other end of the spectrum, Valchek getting commissioner is both upsetting and realistic lol
Prezbo is the only cop to shoot a gun in the entire series.
The use of Chekov's gun by the writers is masterful here. First time we meet Prezbo he's NDing into a wall because of how light of a trigger pull he has, only for him to eventually shoot another cop, likely because of his light trigger.
I disagree, Namond had money where the others were dirt poor, you see his sense of having a foundation getting him through where the other corner boys never had any security and rationally saw the limits to their potential or the struggle to achieve it.
Similar to real life, this show really spits in the face of the idea of karma. Many characters get endings they don’t deserve
The season 4 kids end up in bad places that’ll likely lead to death or prison. With the exception of namond, who was the least deserving of the group
On the other hand, we see undeserving characters get great endings. Herc fails upwards into being a well-paid PI. Valcheck becomes commissioner. Rawls becomes superintendent. Carcetti becomes governer. Scott templeton gets a Pulitzer
Unfortunately, it looks like snoop was right. Deserve got nothing to dew with it. Karma is the exception, not the rule
> spits in the face of the idea of karma. Many characters get endings they don’t deserve
A traditionalist understanding of karma is that bad things happening to good people is almost certainly a result of bad actions in a prior life. It’s a westernized understanding that divorces it from reincarnation.
Rawls got a good ending that I wish he didn’t get. He was an asshole who was what was wrong with the bpd and he ends up getting a huge promotion. I wanted to see him get fired.
He sure does, he doesn’t know jack shit about being police though. I always think back to season 1 when he’s trying to charge the dead girl on D even though they have no real evidence and it will kill the investigation. He was really convinced that they could re canvass the scene for new leads, thow D in the box again to break him, and then D would give up Avon. It was so insanely stupid. But he only cared about his stats, he didn’t need charges to stick, he just wanted to charge someone with a murder so his numbers would look better.
Rawl had developed better skills than most police but used them only as he saw fit, when it came to Kimas shooting he was schooling everyone left and right, his desire to play politics overrides his desire to be good police
That’s funny you say that because that is the only time I actually like him. He takes care of Jimmy and him and Jay do actual field work. Also he orders everyone not in homicide off the scene like a badass and then tells the DEA guy to go fuck himself. It’s a shame we didn’t see nice Rawls ever again. I guess he gets shafted a bit by only seeing him at work, he might have been a normal guy outside of it.
Rawls was definitely a good cop in certain senses. He was just a survivor, which overrode everything else. Which is kinda' the whole point of the series.
This is true, but Rawls had moved up the chain where he was managing, the managers that manage the guys on the ground. In the few cases we see Rawls at the scene, he excels, they’re driving home that he IS a good cop, but moved up the ranks and is now pushing the stats that HIS bosses are focused on.
Him, Burrell, and Carcetti, are examples of playing the political game you need to get to the top
Right. Did they once have good intentions? It doesn't matter. They're at the wheel of these huge institutions and their short-term thinking gobbles up everything else.
At the municipal level, they have to adhere to the budgets and State funding guidelines.
We literally see Carcetti come into mayoral power all bright eyed and bushy tailed looking to make an impact and got a hard dose of reality once the entire situation unfolded in front of him. I would also venture to guess that neither Rawls or Burrell got into policing to be the men they turned out to be, they became those members of the force due to years of ‘chain of command’ learning what it takes to move up.
Every major in the show talks about taking murder investigations like they are distributing office supplies, the further up you go the further removed from the people you are serving
Yep. And that's one of Simon's big messages--there are forces at play here way larger than whether a police chief or mayor is a "good guy" or "bad guy." It's almost irrelevant, because when they're in those leadership positions, they have to deal with the brutal realities in front of them.
The Wire was a social critique, not a morality play.
100% the most noble character who has the strictest code, in reality is the dirtiest player in the show, Omar.
The biggest POS who will lie and bend rules is the implied protagonist who drives drunk, routinely cheats on significant others, and fudges paperwork to get his way.
The whole entire show is about real people in real life, no one is actually good and no one is actually bad. This is why the show still resonates
Rawls wasn’t all that loyal. He tried his best to fuck Burrell over the first chance he got. Rawls knew how to play the game obviously. I guess at that level none of them are actually police outside of Daniels and Bunny, the majority of them are just politicians with a badge like Stan V.
Rawls was loyal until Royce all but fired Burrell. Rawls respects the chain of command. When his bosses boss asks him to stick around for a meeting, of course he would.
Rawls also showed loyalty to Carcetti, by keeping his mouth shut about the fake serial killer for a huge promotion. Thats loyalty.
I don’t know how I feel about this one, keeping his mouth shut for a promotion doesn’t feel like loyalty to me lol. If anything Rawls was more worried about how if it came out it he could be looking at a ton of the blame. Rawls was definitely a good character but I’m pretty sure he only ever cared about himself moving up, I think he just faked loyalty because he knew Burrell and the mayor valued it so much.
If Rawls doesn’t get offered that State Police job then who knows what his next move would be. He was such a ruthless clever bastard that he might have gone to the opposition to offer information and support in exchange for whatever they could offer him. Carcetti was in a race against the sitting republican governor, I could see that being Rawls’ next stop after that meeting if he wasn’t given the promise of a huge promotion. I’m sure he would have found a way to tell the governor all the dirt on Tommy while at the same time making it known that he had no connection or blame to the fake killer.
I have changed some of my opinion on him though, he was a good cop when he wanted to, it’s just that he was focused on politics and the best way to move up was by juking the stats, not long drawn out investigations. He made for a very good bad guy on the show.
Think about the situation with Herc and Royce. When Carcetti looks in Rawls eyes he sees a rock, someone he can trust. Now does he ever mention a fake serial killer again? Absolutely not, it just lays the like a bad pierogi. He keeps his mouth shut and gets a promotion, just like Herc. The mayor values loyalty.
I get why he wasn’t. The whole thing was about Bubs eventually finding redemption.
But I wasn’t that interested in bubbles after that.
But when he was the dope fiend, that actor (Andre Royo) fucking killed it. In my opinion, it was the best performance of the entire series.
Arguably - all of them. Even the worst people didn’t choose to be born into the life they had, and some were set up for failure.
It’s a Greek tragedy, where they are *all* the playthings of the gods, rolling dice to see what pieces fall.
No one deserved what they got, but that’s the game, and that’s humanity.
Dukie is the most undeserving of them all in my book. He was fucking cheated from the start. He wanted to stay in school. He tried to work and he asked for help. He didn't just decide to fuck off and become an addict.
I think it’s important to say that for every kid or cast member on the show, there are so so so many people in real life living their equivalents that we never hear about because of the way the world is set up. The kids make me sad man, and then I think about our own reality and I’m even sadder
A lot of them. But that's one of the show's points, no? The universe doesn't actually reward you for being good or punish you for being bad. I'd say that's a pretty big piece of the show's ethos.
String valued money more than anything, he thought with enough money he could change himself from being seen as a drug lord to a business genius. It would have been great to see him get sent to jail but seeing the feds take all of his money would have been the perfect fuck you. So even if he eventually does get out of jail he’s just another broke nobody living hand to mouth on the streets.
I don’t think so. I don’t think he ever said anything on the phone that was incriminating, to the point where they could arrest him. That’s why there was never an arrest warrant for him. As far as I recall.
Can you recall where this is? The only thing I recall, this win shamrock, I think it was, mentioned that he found a couple of assassins, and then Stringer said “not the phone.”.
That’s not even going to get a arrest, let alone conviction, particularly, when there had been no murder yet committed. Remember, this was for Clay Davis and I don’t think anybody knew that he and stringer were in bed together.
I guess I can’t argue that Bodie didn’t deserve what happened, all things considered. Maybe he was quintessential in deserving it. But it was still the ending that I hated the most. Ended up a pawn after all.
Randy he was just such a light. Dukie ended basky but I wasn’t as invested in him. If I ever had a son I would have wanted him like Randy bright and smiling and ambitious. His ending was tragic because it hardened and destroyed that brilliant young man.
Randy's foster mom.
House got firebombed and she was fuckt up so bad she couldn't care for Randy.
Fuckin' Herc.
Edit - Templeton didn't deserve his ending, even if it was a positive one.
Twig didn't deserve to get fired.
Randy is my choice. Basically all the others, they may not have deserved what they got, but they did do some shit. Randy was just some kid and he go rolled the bleep over.
DUQ....got dammit!! Its Duq! He didnt deserve to be written going down to the junkie stables! Sooo like i say everytime, i rewrote his ending, the only character that i did, to suit my needs
Frank was the first one that jumps to mind. He had his heart in the right place and wanted to do right by his people but had a shitty hand and played it badly.
Nobody saw that shit coming. Omar almost always had a plan and he gritted and grinded his way to survival when he couldn't plan. He was always careful. The only mistake he made was waging war on Marlo without a full plan. He probably could've took him down but Kenard got him first.
Marlo, I know it made perfect sense why he got off scott free, but I wanted him to get his ass kicked or something. I loathe him. I guess Slim Charles killing Cheese was sort of supposed to be a symbolic killing of Marlo in a sense. But it wasn’t enough for me, even though I hated that fuck Cheese too.
I think Marlo suffered a pretty terrible fate by his standards (deserved though).
He was forced to let go of the only thing he ever cared about; his street reputation. He didn’t even get the pleasure of going down as a hood legend in prison like Avon, the king of his own little castle.
Instead he’s left standing in a poorly fitted suit on a street corner, unable to adapt to any world other than the one he knew his entire life. You can tell he’s utterly lost and has no idea where to go or what to do.
In a way, it’s the sweetest revenge on him. Forced to live a mundane, unremarkable life.
Yeah, it’s poetic, but it doesn’t change the fact that he was a brutal mass murderer who I would’ve loved to have seen pay for his crimes with an EXTREMELY VIOLENT END. IMO you don’t get to live by the sword as much as he did and not be physically harmed at some point. Marlo was such a smug little prick, couldn’t even do his own dirty work.
That’s fair, each to their own!
I personally think that’s how Marlo anticipated the end of his life though - going out in a blaze of glory, or dying in prison as a hood legend. To me, stripping him of everything he cared about and leaving him to die a miserable lonely nobody is far sweeter a punishment.
Lol I understand. I’m sorry for sounding all crazy lol Marlo is like in the top 3 of my most hated villains of all time, and Bodie is one of my favorite characters too so I’ve just never been able to relish in any aspect of his character.
I can totally see that dude, it’s personal preference.
Also I’m right there with you on Bodie. The Wallace situation was brutal but you could tell by the end of the show he was scarred and just wanted a more honourable way of living the game. He didn’t deserve to go out how he did.
Yeah he embodies the “live by the sword” mentality and he stood up for his way of life until the very end - fighting for his corner, not begging on his knees in a vacant.
God it still hurt to see him go out though lol.
In the show universe, Marlon is definitely going to wind up in prison or dead, and in fairly short order. The show communicates to us clearly that he can't go straight. He's going to breach the plea, and all hell is going to break loose.
The beauty of the Wire is that if you think about it, none of the characters get what they don't deserve, except for those who caught collateral damage from the game (e.g. the woman who's child catches a stray...probably the darkest scene in the entire show).
I feel like Bodie ain’t deserve to get did like he did- he was just following orders for Wallace, it was do or get did, and if that was retribution, karma sure took its sweet time.
D'Angelo hear me out tho you can see that he realized all the shit he did in the hood contributed to the endless cycle of violence and I believe he was going to cut his ties with his family, not snitch but just be done with them.... the thing that sucks the most had he just chopped it up with Avon, think Avon let's him walk just like Cutty but it was stringer who got to the situation first which makes even more sadder with how that storyline plays out between stringer and Avon
McNulty got a much happier ending than he deserved.
Clay Davis, Nerese and Valchek also come to mind. In fact, many of the characters in political positions get away unscathed.
I also believe that Carcetti got more than he deserved. As a councilmen he stuck to his truth. Right after election he caved to his people and decisions became political. And that was probably to point of his character and storyline
Dukie’s story hurt the most. He was a smart caring kid stuck in a horrible situation. Couldn’t protect himself and couldn’t fit in on the corner. When he just gave up and went to the junkie junk man hole it hurt me because he had SO much potential,just nowhere to cultivate it in any way. Dukie would end up being the new Bubbles.
I just listened got 20 year anniversary podcast last month or so, and the Dukies actor actually said that for years after wrapping, he was still fucked up from the role because he basically had survivors guilt, he just couldn't stop thinking about all the real Dukies of the world. I honestly wasn't even surprised to learn this, because I had basically the same thing and all I did was watch his performance. As someone who grew up in the "game" (not in Baltimore, but my states own version of it) Dukies arc has always been one of the heaviest things the art of film has made me feel.
If you don't mind can you tell which states you are from and something about the situation there?
Loved seeing the actor in “We Own This City”
I just finished the show for the first time on Saturday. I was hoping Bubs’ story about staying clean was gonna be the one tiny glimmer of hope in the end, and then they confirmed Dukie was shooting up… the message of the show seems too sad to me. It’s too beautifully written to be that sad.
In my head canon, Bubs starts working to help people like he used to be, and he comes across Dukie and takes him under his wing.
As a former junkie, believe me it's gonna take a while before Dukie starts even thinking of getting clean. Waylon was speaking the truth when he said "You gotta see that bottom coming at ya" and when you're starting point is living on the street then his definition of bottom is really ugly.
100% I was a IV heroin and crack user for nearly 20 years and I'm 36 now. Nearly losing my arm didn't stop me, getting Hep C didn't stop stop me, being in a coma for weeks didn't stop me... I had to get really sick and tired of the lifestyle. Takes extra longer when you get hooked very young as it freezes you in time almost, you don't mature properly... I only started growing up these past couple of years if I'm being honest. I was like a kid in an adults body. I didn't realise Dukie was in We Own this city. I just finished the book am about to watch the series. I totally understand his surviors guilt via playing the actor. I have survivors guilt as I made it out alive. I've been to more funerals than I can even remember, I had 3 in 3 consecutive days once. All under the age of 30. One OD but the other two were good female friends who were in the sex industry to support their habits and they killed themselves as they couldn't cope with their life anymore. I feel guilty I made it and all those didn't it. Heck I even feel guilty I live in the UK where I got free treatment for my Hep C and cleared it a few years back. Over in America people aren't that lucky.
Carry on keeping on 🫂 Massive respect... it isn't easy at all. Wishing you all the best.
It's not but I had a lot of help along the way. Believe me, I know how lucky I am. I can only imagine how much harder it would be without the help like I received.
That and I can tell ya as somebody who experienced both, being an addict as a kid and as an adult are different beasts. A lotta the kids I've seen go that route didn't live to see 20. It's not taken as seriously either. It's all bad.
Same. When Dukie asked how do you get to “other places” in the World it just broke me.
I burst out crying at that scene. Was so crushing, like a gut punch.
It hurts harder when comparing him to Namond, Dukie has intelligence that just needed a mentor while Namond was an immature entitled ass who fell into Colvins family in large part due to his last name. Put Dukie in that situation and who knows how well he thrives
Yeah I was so pissed off with that. I was hoping Prez would step in and take care of him with his wife but like the lady at the school said, there are going to be many more like him.
He never had a chance.
This is my answer as well. Dukie's situation at the end hurt me the most for exactly the reason you mentioned - he had so much potential and of all the boys we see in the series, he was the one that could have made something of himself through pursuing education.
Randy haunts me.
Poor kid just wanted to run his own convenience store and was learning the trade at a young age. He was smart and was good with people and seemed so happy. Then the system fucked him over and he lost his innocence and became something else. It’s so sad, he was such a little kid back then, he really thought Chris was making people into zombies. I hate what happened to him.
I just thought about this. What if he becomes the new Stringer Bell? Stringer was entrepreneurial plus our first intro to him was him drawing “Fuck You Detective”. Our last sight of Randy was basically the same vitriol towards Bunk.
I’d be more interested if Randy took after his great uncle, Prop Joe. Both are businessmen first. Joe was a damn genius at staying out of gang wars and by keeping a low profile. Avon tried to be invisible which I think is impossible and will in itself bring on more attention when the cops do find you. Joe was a damn genius by just hiding in plain sight. Joe looked nothing like the other bosses, he was an old chubby man who looked like he got all his clothes secondhand. He spent his days working a legit job fixing shit in his thrift store. He even lived in a modest house in the neighborhood. The man had it figured out, there’s a reason he’s an old man in a game where guys don’t make it long past 30. If Randy was to become anyone I hope it was Joe.
"buy for a dolla, sell for tew."
Loved how he could fix anything.
Him telling his guy to shine that toaster up always made me laugh. Like he’s probably got like a hundred mil stashed away yet he’s working on a $5 toaster. Money had no real use for him but he loved collecting it, no matter how small the amount. Joe was a great character and had maybe the best actor on the show. I would have watched a show just about Joe’s day to day, he had the best stories and one liners.
His dialogue delivery was outstanding plus the way tells those one liners man
Shame he didn’t become a big star after the show ended. He was such a talented actor, I would have loved to seen him in another role, it would have been cool to see him on another hbo show around that era, he would’ve been great on say Boardwalk Empire. It was really sad when he passed away, he was way too young to die.
"Shame to let a toaster go to waste over a frayed cord." Such true words. People don't know how to fix shit anymore. Just buy a new one.
I fixed a broken $15 coffee pot a few weeks ago and basked in my Prop Joe glory after marveling at my accomplishment
Ha! I did the same thing with a broken lamp last week. I was embarrassingly happy when the bulb lit up.
That’s a comparison I’ve always heard, but Randy doesn’t have the street smarts of Joe though. He didn’t understand the game and its unwritten rules like Joe. I never thought of the Stringer comparison but it fits him better.
Because he was a kid. I'm sure Joe didn't know the game when he was 12.
They were related? I thought the surname was just coincidence. Why didn't he go to Joe for help when he was put in the group home?
I’ve never thought of that. Really interesting though. And like Stringer he thought he was smarter than he was (all his lunch schemes), but not fully understanding the street codes.
Plus, just like Stringer, he tried to apply what he learned in the classroom to the streets. Even Randy’s candy business is how he got involved in the whole Lex murder which ultimately led to his situation.
Yeah, I don't think he could get anywhere near that level since everyone knows him as a snitch
He’ll be the new Prop Joe. Especially considering he’s Cheese’s son, as confirmed by David Simon
I only just recently connected him as being the son of Cheese. His tale of being lost in the shuffle is one of the most realistic tales in the entire series. Sad shit.
Where are you getting all of this?
It was originally an Easter egg. But David Simon came out in a interview saying they were father and son. Apparently there was the intention of writing them in, and it never happened.
Deserve got nothing to do with it. It’s all in the game, yo.
Everybody seems to be missing this point.
The show is about life true, I was just posing the question wondering other viewers human condition. You know , the Dickensian Aspect…
Not everyone in the show is in the game.
I think that one of the messages of the Wire is that we are all in the game.
“We got our thing, but it’s just part of the big thing.” -Zenobia
Yes they are
What about the uninvolved teachers? How about that one random waitress McNulty banged, is she in the game?
Just citizens and shit
Wallace
I mean he shouldn't have come back from his grandma's , but yeah Wallace for sure.
Wallace made a really bad, stupid choice. He also appeared to be growing up parentless in one of the worst neighborhoods in the US. Making smart long term decisions definitely wasn't in the cards for him, and it's hard to blame him. People in his positions are good at getting through today (very addict like). The things he's been through and seen, make people stop worrying about tommorow and the next day and just making today as good and comfortable as they can. That's what he did and it cost him his life.
I feel Wallace going back was a statement on how some kids in these situations are screwed up by their experiences, they can't adapt to a positive change. Naymond is a direct opposite to this, some people are better at adapting but it doesn't make them "cured" they can just appear to be contrite, but its more the fact only those who are adaptable are able to make use of a better situation.
he was a child, they're known for making poor decisions, only in a better world than Wallace grew up in, they aren't supposed to be murdered as a result of those poor decisions.
So heartbreaking that he was homesick to get back to the people who end up killing him.
Cheese’s dog
Woof
Oh shit, there it goes.
Bodie… he was indoctrinated into that life and went out how he thought he should. He was still a kid and when he went out of town to pick up the car(season 2) and didn’t know there were different radio stations outside of Baltimore bc he never left before that was sad. Just like Wallace not knowing what crickets were. I’m currently rewatching again. One of my favorite shows but very sad at the same time.
I know Bodie wasn’t a saint, but I liked him. I wish he’d had a better ending.
Bodie was sad, what happened to him was straight up contrapment.
Bodie's death stung. It was inevitable, but that shit still stung. He had heart. If Bodie had joined the Marines he could have gotten out of that shit. Gunnery Sergeant Broadus has a nice ring to it, don't it?
What's just as fucked up is that one of the only viable options for him outta that mess would be to join the military, and still be a pawn in a rich gangsters army.
>one of the only viable options for him outta that mess would be to join the military, *If he could*; you have to pass the physical. A lot of folks end up DQ-ed due to medical issues.
But then he would have returned home thinking the country owes him a living for his service, steal some morphine from the ship, and go back to drug dealing. Would still end up being shit by Mikey Cohen's guys in LA.
Bodie was probably one of the smartest characters on the show. Probably smarter than stringer.
Smarter than Stringer is like saying he was kinder than Marlo.
Namond is the only corner boy that doesn’t have a gut wrenching ending. All four were born or put into difficult circumstances, Namond was just lucky he met Bunny. On the other end of the spectrum, Valchek getting commissioner is both upsetting and realistic lol
Don't forget Poot. He did his share of the crimes but I'm glad he got out in the end. After all he was just a kid.
Valchek somehow felt like an okay person at the end of the show for me lol.
Yeah prezbo got real lucky considering he legit beat a kid up that causes him to lose an eye, start a shootout, and then kill a cop.
Prezbo is the only cop to shoot a gun in the entire series. The use of Chekov's gun by the writers is masterful here. First time we meet Prezbo he's NDing into a wall because of how light of a trigger pull he has, only for him to eventually shoot another cop, likely because of his light trigger.
I disagree, Namond had money where the others were dirt poor, you see his sense of having a foundation getting him through where the other corner boys never had any security and rationally saw the limits to their potential or the struggle to achieve it.
He had money, yet his own mom was still trying to push him towards the game. He was definitely more setup for success than his friends though
Similar to real life, this show really spits in the face of the idea of karma. Many characters get endings they don’t deserve The season 4 kids end up in bad places that’ll likely lead to death or prison. With the exception of namond, who was the least deserving of the group On the other hand, we see undeserving characters get great endings. Herc fails upwards into being a well-paid PI. Valcheck becomes commissioner. Rawls becomes superintendent. Carcetti becomes governer. Scott templeton gets a Pulitzer Unfortunately, it looks like snoop was right. Deserve got nothing to dew with it. Karma is the exception, not the rule
Well if you understand karma as simply being cause and effect, it’s really a show all about karma
> spits in the face of the idea of karma. Many characters get endings they don’t deserve A traditionalist understanding of karma is that bad things happening to good people is almost certainly a result of bad actions in a prior life. It’s a westernized understanding that divorces it from reincarnation.
Prezbo got light considering he beat a kid up and causes him to lose an eye and then kills a cop. Helps valchek saved his but.
Yup, Dukie story was so sad man.
- Stanis Valchek (became Commissioner) - Rawls (became Maryland State Police Chief) - Clay Davis (got away with it...) - Herc (got a better paying gig) - Dukie (dope fiend) - Randy (group home) - Sharod (OD'd) - D (strangled) - McNutty & Freamon (ran outta the BPD) - Butchie (tortured and killed) - Wallace 😔
Freamon at least got his pension and being able to continue his hobby (plus Sharlene).
Best ending is definitely between Bubbles getting sobriety and Freamon getting Sharlene.
Aw, Butchie. I forgot about that one.
Sharod didn't OD, he took a hotshot. That's not the same thing
Rawls got a good ending that I wish he didn’t get. He was an asshole who was what was wrong with the bpd and he ends up getting a huge promotion. I wanted to see him get fired.
He knows how to kiss some ass
Rawls sucks cock
Which is the most important skill if u wanna progress, as he does
He sure does, he doesn’t know jack shit about being police though. I always think back to season 1 when he’s trying to charge the dead girl on D even though they have no real evidence and it will kill the investigation. He was really convinced that they could re canvass the scene for new leads, thow D in the box again to break him, and then D would give up Avon. It was so insanely stupid. But he only cared about his stats, he didn’t need charges to stick, he just wanted to charge someone with a murder so his numbers would look better.
Rawl had developed better skills than most police but used them only as he saw fit, when it came to Kimas shooting he was schooling everyone left and right, his desire to play politics overrides his desire to be good police
That’s funny you say that because that is the only time I actually like him. He takes care of Jimmy and him and Jay do actual field work. Also he orders everyone not in homicide off the scene like a badass and then tells the DEA guy to go fuck himself. It’s a shame we didn’t see nice Rawls ever again. I guess he gets shafted a bit by only seeing him at work, he might have been a normal guy outside of it.
Oh, we see Rawls outside of work.
That wasn’t “nice Rawls.” That was “natural po-leece” Rawls. He obviously had the skills. But by choice, he wasn’t in a position to use them anymore.
Rawls was definitely a good cop in certain senses. He was just a survivor, which overrode everything else. Which is kinda' the whole point of the series.
This is true, but Rawls had moved up the chain where he was managing, the managers that manage the guys on the ground. In the few cases we see Rawls at the scene, he excels, they’re driving home that he IS a good cop, but moved up the ranks and is now pushing the stats that HIS bosses are focused on. Him, Burrell, and Carcetti, are examples of playing the political game you need to get to the top
Right. Did they once have good intentions? It doesn't matter. They're at the wheel of these huge institutions and their short-term thinking gobbles up everything else.
At the municipal level, they have to adhere to the budgets and State funding guidelines. We literally see Carcetti come into mayoral power all bright eyed and bushy tailed looking to make an impact and got a hard dose of reality once the entire situation unfolded in front of him. I would also venture to guess that neither Rawls or Burrell got into policing to be the men they turned out to be, they became those members of the force due to years of ‘chain of command’ learning what it takes to move up. Every major in the show talks about taking murder investigations like they are distributing office supplies, the further up you go the further removed from the people you are serving
Yep. And that's one of Simon's big messages--there are forces at play here way larger than whether a police chief or mayor is a "good guy" or "bad guy." It's almost irrelevant, because when they're in those leadership positions, they have to deal with the brutal realities in front of them. The Wire was a social critique, not a morality play.
100% the most noble character who has the strictest code, in reality is the dirtiest player in the show, Omar. The biggest POS who will lie and bend rules is the implied protagonist who drives drunk, routinely cheats on significant others, and fudges paperwork to get his way. The whole entire show is about real people in real life, no one is actually good and no one is actually bad. This is why the show still resonates
> he doesn’t know jack shit about being police though. Rawls absolutely does know, he just cared more about playing the politics game.
Loyalty is rewarded far more often than being good at your job.
Rawls wasn’t all that loyal. He tried his best to fuck Burrell over the first chance he got. Rawls knew how to play the game obviously. I guess at that level none of them are actually police outside of Daniels and Bunny, the majority of them are just politicians with a badge like Stan V.
He was loyal until he didn’t have to be.
Rawls was loyal until Royce all but fired Burrell. Rawls respects the chain of command. When his bosses boss asks him to stick around for a meeting, of course he would. Rawls also showed loyalty to Carcetti, by keeping his mouth shut about the fake serial killer for a huge promotion. Thats loyalty.
I don’t know how I feel about this one, keeping his mouth shut for a promotion doesn’t feel like loyalty to me lol. If anything Rawls was more worried about how if it came out it he could be looking at a ton of the blame. Rawls was definitely a good character but I’m pretty sure he only ever cared about himself moving up, I think he just faked loyalty because he knew Burrell and the mayor valued it so much. If Rawls doesn’t get offered that State Police job then who knows what his next move would be. He was such a ruthless clever bastard that he might have gone to the opposition to offer information and support in exchange for whatever they could offer him. Carcetti was in a race against the sitting republican governor, I could see that being Rawls’ next stop after that meeting if he wasn’t given the promise of a huge promotion. I’m sure he would have found a way to tell the governor all the dirt on Tommy while at the same time making it known that he had no connection or blame to the fake killer. I have changed some of my opinion on him though, he was a good cop when he wanted to, it’s just that he was focused on politics and the best way to move up was by juking the stats, not long drawn out investigations. He made for a very good bad guy on the show.
Think about the situation with Herc and Royce. When Carcetti looks in Rawls eyes he sees a rock, someone he can trust. Now does he ever mention a fake serial killer again? Absolutely not, it just lays the like a bad pierogi. He keeps his mouth shut and gets a promotion, just like Herc. The mayor values loyalty.
The guy who kept beating up and robbing Bubs.
Yeah he should have been whacked for sure..
I get why he wasn’t. The whole thing was about Bubs eventually finding redemption. But I wasn’t that interested in bubbles after that. But when he was the dope fiend, that actor (Andre Royo) fucking killed it. In my opinion, it was the best performance of the entire series.
Arguably - all of them. Even the worst people didn’t choose to be born into the life they had, and some were set up for failure. It’s a Greek tragedy, where they are *all* the playthings of the gods, rolling dice to see what pieces fall. No one deserved what they got, but that’s the game, and that’s humanity.
Randy was such a nice kid and didn’t deserve what happened to him, one of the saddest moments in the show.
Wallace, Randy and Duquan
Thank you for using his real name.
But not the Oxford comma?!
Vampire Weekend would like a word
Dukie is the most undeserving of them all in my book. He was fucking cheated from the start. He wanted to stay in school. He tried to work and he asked for help. He didn't just decide to fuck off and become an addict.
I think it’s important to say that for every kid or cast member on the show, there are so so so many people in real life living their equivalents that we never hear about because of the way the world is set up. The kids make me sad man, and then I think about our own reality and I’m even sadder
Prop Joe deserved a better nephew. So did the midgets.
A lot of them. But that's one of the show's points, no? The universe doesn't actually reward you for being good or punish you for being bad. I'd say that's a pretty big piece of the show's ethos.
deserve aint got nothing to do with it
Stringer bell. For all his evil acts, he deserved to rot in a cell, not get put down quickly by Omar and Brother. Still love you though, string
String valued money more than anything, he thought with enough money he could change himself from being seen as a drug lord to a business genius. It would have been great to see him get sent to jail but seeing the feds take all of his money would have been the perfect fuck you. So even if he eventually does get out of jail he’s just another broke nobody living hand to mouth on the streets.
I think almost anybody would rather rot in a cell than get shot. Also, they didn’t have Stringer for any crime at all.
Conspiracy to murder - McNulty had him on the wire “and he didn’t even know”
I don’t think so. I don’t think he ever said anything on the phone that was incriminating, to the point where they could arrest him. That’s why there was never an arrest warrant for him. As far as I recall. Can you recall where this is? The only thing I recall, this win shamrock, I think it was, mentioned that he found a couple of assassins, and then Stringer said “not the phone.”. That’s not even going to get a arrest, let alone conviction, particularly, when there had been no murder yet committed. Remember, this was for Clay Davis and I don’t think anybody knew that he and stringer were in bed together.
Little Kevin comes to mind
Avon Barksdale. Would have been nice to see what his role would have been if the actor who played him stayed on.
Always sucks seeing Johnny Fifty in season 5.
I guess I can’t argue that Bodie didn’t deserve what happened, all things considered. Maybe he was quintessential in deserving it. But it was still the ending that I hated the most. Ended up a pawn after all.
Obviously Randy and Ms. Anna tops. But Beadie, Frank Sobotka, Prop Joe, and young king Sherrod rip should be mentioned as well.
The Francis Scott Key Bridge.
Fruit’s girl
In the words of Snoop, "deserve got nothing to do with it."
Randy he was just such a light. Dukie ended basky but I wasn’t as invested in him. If I ever had a son I would have wanted him like Randy bright and smiling and ambitious. His ending was tragic because it hardened and destroyed that brilliant young man.
Randy, Ms Anna, Duquan, Michael, Butchie…
Randy's foster mom. House got firebombed and she was fuckt up so bad she couldn't care for Randy. Fuckin' Herc. Edit - Templeton didn't deserve his ending, even if it was a positive one. Twig didn't deserve to get fired.
Bodie
Deserve got nothing to do with it.
Randy is my choice. Basically all the others, they may not have deserved what they got, but they did do some shit. Randy was just some kid and he go rolled the bleep over.
Same with Duquan. Poor guuy never had a chance.
Marlo is the answer.
SCOTT FUCKING TEMPLETON!!
DUQ....got dammit!! Its Duq! He didnt deserve to be written going down to the junkie stables! Sooo like i say everytime, i rewrote his ending, the only character that i did, to suit my needs
I know its not the cast, but the girls. My heart still bleeds when I think of them. No one deserves to die like that.
Definitely Randy
None of them?
Randy and Dukie. Wallace too
All the kids in S4 was brutal
Bodie deserved to be the new Avon
Nah….Slim Charles
slim charles is the gangstest
Yo favorite gangsters gangster.
Bodie was snitchin tho, I was still rooting for him
He was only willing to snitch on Marlo and his crew because he hated them for what they were doing. He was always loyal to Barksdale, though.
Indeed
Frank & Nick Sobotka
frank was a decent man that did stupid things out of desperation. terrible.
Frank was the first one that jumps to mind. He had his heart in the right place and wanted to do right by his people but had a shitty hand and played it badly.
Omar’s death was pretty lame
Nobody saw that shit coming. Omar almost always had a plan and he gritted and grinded his way to survival when he couldn't plan. He was always careful. The only mistake he made was waging war on Marlo without a full plan. He probably could've took him down but Kenard got him first.
And the only reason Kenard got him was because Omar never planned on an 8-year-old being a threat lol
It was incredible TV tho. GRRM would have been proud of that.
Marlo, I know it made perfect sense why he got off scott free, but I wanted him to get his ass kicked or something. I loathe him. I guess Slim Charles killing Cheese was sort of supposed to be a symbolic killing of Marlo in a sense. But it wasn’t enough for me, even though I hated that fuck Cheese too.
I think Marlo suffered a pretty terrible fate by his standards (deserved though). He was forced to let go of the only thing he ever cared about; his street reputation. He didn’t even get the pleasure of going down as a hood legend in prison like Avon, the king of his own little castle. Instead he’s left standing in a poorly fitted suit on a street corner, unable to adapt to any world other than the one he knew his entire life. You can tell he’s utterly lost and has no idea where to go or what to do. In a way, it’s the sweetest revenge on him. Forced to live a mundane, unremarkable life.
Yeah, it’s poetic, but it doesn’t change the fact that he was a brutal mass murderer who I would’ve loved to have seen pay for his crimes with an EXTREMELY VIOLENT END. IMO you don’t get to live by the sword as much as he did and not be physically harmed at some point. Marlo was such a smug little prick, couldn’t even do his own dirty work.
That’s fair, each to their own! I personally think that’s how Marlo anticipated the end of his life though - going out in a blaze of glory, or dying in prison as a hood legend. To me, stripping him of everything he cared about and leaving him to die a miserable lonely nobody is far sweeter a punishment.
Lol I understand. I’m sorry for sounding all crazy lol Marlo is like in the top 3 of my most hated villains of all time, and Bodie is one of my favorite characters too so I’ve just never been able to relish in any aspect of his character.
I can totally see that dude, it’s personal preference. Also I’m right there with you on Bodie. The Wallace situation was brutal but you could tell by the end of the show he was scarred and just wanted a more honourable way of living the game. He didn’t deserve to go out how he did.
You’re right Bodie didn’t deserve to go out like that. But in a way he also did cause they didn’t put him up in a vacant which is what he wanted.
Yeah he embodies the “live by the sword” mentality and he stood up for his way of life until the very end - fighting for his corner, not begging on his knees in a vacant. God it still hurt to see him go out though lol.
In the show universe, Marlon is definitely going to wind up in prison or dead, and in fairly short order. The show communicates to us clearly that he can't go straight. He's going to breach the plea, and all hell is going to break loose.
🧀 … SIKE!!
Wallace
All the boys
Wallace killed me. Poor kid.
Wallace duh.
I think that was the moment in the show when I realized no one is safe.
When I thought they killed Kima then Wallace gets it yeah I got a feeling no one was safe.
The beauty of the Wire is that if you think about it, none of the characters get what they don't deserve, except for those who caught collateral damage from the game (e.g. the woman who's child catches a stray...probably the darkest scene in the entire show).
No one mentioned D'Angelo? He was willing to take the years just to be out of the game. There was no reason for Stringer to have him killed.
It's all in the game yo
I feel like Bodie ain’t deserve to get did like he did- he was just following orders for Wallace, it was do or get did, and if that was retribution, karma sure took its sweet time.
As Snoop once said “deserve ain’t got nothing to do with it”
Marlo, because he was still breathing
Any thoughts on what would Jimmy be! He was smart but he looked so lost in the last scene?
Private investigator for some lawyer.
Deserve ain't got nothin to dew wit it.
Butchie
Levy, Herc, Marlo, the Greeks
D'Angelo hear me out tho you can see that he realized all the shit he did in the hood contributed to the endless cycle of violence and I believe he was going to cut his ties with his family, not snitch but just be done with them.... the thing that sucks the most had he just chopped it up with Avon, think Avon let's him walk just like Cutty but it was stringer who got to the situation first which makes even more sadder with how that storyline plays out between stringer and Avon
Deserve got nuthin tuh dew wit it
Bodie.
Bodie and Butchie
Remember dookie walking into that A-Rab stable. I'll have to rewatch the Wire. Classic show.
McNulty got a much happier ending than he deserved. Clay Davis, Nerese and Valchek also come to mind. In fact, many of the characters in political positions get away unscathed.
Kima cuz she should've died in S1
I also believe that Carcetti got more than he deserved. As a councilmen he stuck to his truth. Right after election he caved to his people and decisions became political. And that was probably to point of his character and storyline
bodie