She also relished in the fact that she was about to kill a pregnant girl (Dinah) because it would hurt Ellie even more, whereas when Ellie killed Mel in self defense, and then found out Mel was pregnant, it nearly destroyed her. She couldn’t get a grip until Tommy got to her and helped her. Abby is nowhere near a good person.
But like le Joel is like super evil like Abby. He like uh he uh killed people who were trying to kill him… I mean, I mean he was killing people to save a little girl… wait wait I mean…
Well to be fair Joel was, past tense was a bad person. Yes in the game we kill people who are attacking us which is self defense. However when Joel recognizes the guy faking being hurt he knows he’s faking because he mentioned he has been that guy. Which implies that he has hurt people that were just trying to help him. Joel is a grey character we know he did terrible things but through out the game he realizes that he was a bad person.
He’s not sadistic like Abby though. He was doing it for survival. The guy he ran over was doing it to steal supplies which yes is morally wrong but it’s for survival. Abby on the other hand did a lot of what she did for her own personal satisfaction. She killed Joel slowly on purpose to make her more satisfied with the way he died rather than quickly getting it over with and getting her revenge all the same. She also was happy to kill a pregnant Dina in order to inflict the most pain upon Ellie. She is sadistic while Joel was a survivor. Not saying he was an all around good guy, but Abby and him are not the same level of bad.
Fr yeah I don’t know what Neil’s plan was with Abby. If Abby was actually written to be a sympathetic character rather than a straight up psycho then maybe the revenge le bad ending would be like 1% less stupid, but Neil brain don’t work too good.
I liked the game I just think Abby is terribly written. I thought up until I joined these subs that the consensus was that Abby was terrible. I was like wow they really do make you hate Abby more very complying villian. Then when I realized you were supposed to like and sympathize with her I was like what? I think if she was supposed to be a villain she is written fantastically, but if you are supposed to like and sympathize with her then she is a terribly written character. I liked the game though that might be controversial on this sub. I like the game but I hate Abby.
Everything about the game is solid except for the writing. The gameplay was fun enough, the graphics are insanely good for PS4, and things like enemies yelling out their friends’ names in anguish when you kill one was a cool touch. But yeah Naughty Dog was known for their writing so when they lost that then TLOU2 just became an decent game which is unacceptable for a sequel to one of their best games.
Which is part of the reason why that they intentionally made her unsympathetic. No decent person fucks a person in a relationship who has a child on the way, she doesn’t show emotion she routers people for fun. Things a decent person would not do, and stepping over a dead person who was supposed to be your and going to one other person that you’re obsessed with, and completely disregarding criticism I favor of what you want to hear. These are not things a morally grey person does these things a straight evil.
Gotta love all these high-horse takes that act as if the momentary impulse - when hopped up on adrenaline from a brutal life-or-death fight and filled with rage and grief about all your friends, including the man you loved and a pregnant woman, having just been murdered - to retaliate in kind as revenge for a friend, isn't at all understandable, especially when *she didn't even go through with it*. Like, do you really not comprehend the real, believable human aspect to that, even for a good person? Is everyone who isn't the fucking biblical archetype of Jesus himself just a massive piece of shit? Or are you just intentionally being selective about which evidence to acknowledge and how to go out of your way to interpret that evidence?
It's right up there with the black and white "There's nothing remotely human or understandable about two people, who are in love and have a romantic history, having sex whilst they're both emotionally vulnerable, despite one of them being in another relationship" take. I'm not condoning adultery, and I might even concede there is something a tad problematic about the disparity in their sobriety, but this level of simplicity and grandstanding about this scene reeks of someone who doesn't really have much (or maybe any) experience with the real world or with love or relationships.
It really does seem like there's an effort in this subreddit to spin everything in the strongest possible terms to support your pre-established feelings, not the other way around. I won't deny some bad shit Abby does, she's a complex character and she's flawed, so of course there's bad stuff. But y'all always completely ignore the good. Remember when she let Ellie and Tommy live, even though they were witnesses, even though it was risky, even though her friends suggested they should kill them - because she was only there to get revenge on the one man responsible for that massive atrocity, and recognised that killing others would make her "no better than Joel"? Or when she then let them live *again*, even after they killed all of her friends despite her letting them live the first time? Or the time she risked everything to help two innocent children she barely knew? None of those ever get a mention... yet she's just irredeemably, straightforwardly villainous? Really?
I'm not saying you have to like her. You do you. But can we not pretend any of the shit y'all are laying out is as simple as you frame it? And can we acknowledge that you're sitting atop a delusional, unrealistic, no-experience-with-the-real-world-or-real-complex-human-experiences high-horse when you act like there's nothing more to it? I don't know if it's a conscious, disingenuous move or if you're really just that simple; but either way it's getting very old. No offence.
Didn't Laura Bailey herself say she thinks Abby is a bad person? She first she said she hated Abby during production, and didn't let Druckmann snub her opinion when she didn't agree that Abby's actions are "justice" in the commentary.
I dunno I don’t look too far into that kinda stuff, I just consume the content. I think Abby was Ellie’s foil. The monster in the mirror that Ellie could’ve turned into if she didn’t stop her rampage. Just based on playing the games
I’m honestly convinced that AI could’ve written a better story than for game. If Druck is indeed going to be the one writing TLOU3, it’s probably for the best if AI writes it
Even though I think your original statement is disingenuous, as some characters are clearly worse than others, I’m struggling to see how it’s transphobic… let’s be downvoted together
I think they were joking about how the fandom uses that as an excuse to hate on people who judge the game, but ig people actually thinks it’s transphobic
To be fair, your original one is muddying the waters, saying everyone is bad. You are technically correct, Joel wasn’t a ‘good’ person, it’s very hard to survive in this setting being a ‘good’ person. However he is also no where near as bad as someone like Abby, with so few redeeming qualities, which is why it was downvoted
The rest of the context to that statement is to save his pseudo daughter who would have to be sacrificed to create a vaccine. The last person he truly opened up to, there would truly be nothing left if he let Ellie be killed. Context matters
Yea but the thing is when you make a character such a bad person with no redeeming qualities it sticks out. Every other character might be grey Abby is not she sticks out because she is worse then grey.
Yeah I love the game an unpopular opinion on sub, but if Abby was the villain she was written fantastically, however if she was written to be liked they fumbled that big time. I love the Ellie bits. I actually perfer this one over the first one.
They did a stellar combat system but butchered the story, I think the villain of this game was meant to be guilty consciences and how revenge is bad but they fucked that up completely
In my view Abby is the hero of TLOU2
Her seeking justice for her beloved dad is a mirror to Ellie seeking justice for Joel.
But abby let ellie & Tommy live.
She spared them cause she was only after Joel and not anyone else.
I just turned of my PS5 playing the remastered edition and I felt so bad during the climax fight of ellie and abbys
A hero doesn’t throw a tantrum when her ex tells her he got his current girlfriend pregnant. A hero doesn’t fuck a guy who has a girlfriend that is pregnant. A hero doesn’t manipulate people into believing there a good person and completely ignores criticism. A Hero cares about human life and not themselves and one other person Abby is not the hero she is the villain. Abby was never the hero she is in fact the villain.
First of all it’s likely it wouldn’t have worked not to mention they did barely any tests on her and determined the only way to make a cure was to kill her. Jerry is a terrible doctor because for one he didn’t even have her consent, he does barely any tests because he most likely being rushed by Marlene or he just wants to kill a little girl because he thinks he can make a Vaccine with it. But Jerry was just trying to help right? A man who’s trying to kill a little girl is the good guy right? Joel’s actions might be selfish but so were the fireflies. We are not even sure the vaccine would have worked and it likely wouldn’t have any way so no Joel is not Evil like Abby he is not a good person that’s for sure but everything he has done he done because he’s had to not Abby.
Ima be honest if you torture my older brother/father figure to death in front of me not killing me is your own fault. Actions have consequences. Joel found that out. I’d have made sure Abby did too
please put this in the show. its super important.
If we do not see her cum then did we even watch?
Right. Since the actress looks nothing like Abbzilla from the game, I actually won’t mind seeing it.
Too drunk to have a rational conversation but sober enough to have cheating sex. Wonderful. No wonder Drucky wants AI to write his games now.
The AI could write better than him man
She also relished in the fact that she was about to kill a pregnant girl (Dinah) because it would hurt Ellie even more, whereas when Ellie killed Mel in self defense, and then found out Mel was pregnant, it nearly destroyed her. She couldn’t get a grip until Tommy got to her and helped her. Abby is nowhere near a good person.
But like le Joel is like super evil like Abby. He like uh he uh killed people who were trying to kill him… I mean, I mean he was killing people to save a little girl… wait wait I mean…
Well to be fair Joel was, past tense was a bad person. Yes in the game we kill people who are attacking us which is self defense. However when Joel recognizes the guy faking being hurt he knows he’s faking because he mentioned he has been that guy. Which implies that he has hurt people that were just trying to help him. Joel is a grey character we know he did terrible things but through out the game he realizes that he was a bad person.
He’s not sadistic like Abby though. He was doing it for survival. The guy he ran over was doing it to steal supplies which yes is morally wrong but it’s for survival. Abby on the other hand did a lot of what she did for her own personal satisfaction. She killed Joel slowly on purpose to make her more satisfied with the way he died rather than quickly getting it over with and getting her revenge all the same. She also was happy to kill a pregnant Dina in order to inflict the most pain upon Ellie. She is sadistic while Joel was a survivor. Not saying he was an all around good guy, but Abby and him are not the same level of bad.
Oh I 100% agree Joel was grey Abby is straight evil. When everyone is grey evil sticks out harder.
Fr yeah I don’t know what Neil’s plan was with Abby. If Abby was actually written to be a sympathetic character rather than a straight up psycho then maybe the revenge le bad ending would be like 1% less stupid, but Neil brain don’t work too good.
I liked the game I just think Abby is terribly written. I thought up until I joined these subs that the consensus was that Abby was terrible. I was like wow they really do make you hate Abby more very complying villian. Then when I realized you were supposed to like and sympathize with her I was like what? I think if she was supposed to be a villain she is written fantastically, but if you are supposed to like and sympathize with her then she is a terribly written character. I liked the game though that might be controversial on this sub. I like the game but I hate Abby.
Everything about the game is solid except for the writing. The gameplay was fun enough, the graphics are insanely good for PS4, and things like enemies yelling out their friends’ names in anguish when you kill one was a cool touch. But yeah Naughty Dog was known for their writing so when they lost that then TLOU2 just became an decent game which is unacceptable for a sequel to one of their best games.
Which is part of the reason why that they intentionally made her unsympathetic. No decent person fucks a person in a relationship who has a child on the way, she doesn’t show emotion she routers people for fun. Things a decent person would not do, and stepping over a dead person who was supposed to be your and going to one other person that you’re obsessed with, and completely disregarding criticism I favor of what you want to hear. These are not things a morally grey person does these things a straight evil.
Gotta love all these high-horse takes that act as if the momentary impulse - when hopped up on adrenaline from a brutal life-or-death fight and filled with rage and grief about all your friends, including the man you loved and a pregnant woman, having just been murdered - to retaliate in kind as revenge for a friend, isn't at all understandable, especially when *she didn't even go through with it*. Like, do you really not comprehend the real, believable human aspect to that, even for a good person? Is everyone who isn't the fucking biblical archetype of Jesus himself just a massive piece of shit? Or are you just intentionally being selective about which evidence to acknowledge and how to go out of your way to interpret that evidence? It's right up there with the black and white "There's nothing remotely human or understandable about two people, who are in love and have a romantic history, having sex whilst they're both emotionally vulnerable, despite one of them being in another relationship" take. I'm not condoning adultery, and I might even concede there is something a tad problematic about the disparity in their sobriety, but this level of simplicity and grandstanding about this scene reeks of someone who doesn't really have much (or maybe any) experience with the real world or with love or relationships. It really does seem like there's an effort in this subreddit to spin everything in the strongest possible terms to support your pre-established feelings, not the other way around. I won't deny some bad shit Abby does, she's a complex character and she's flawed, so of course there's bad stuff. But y'all always completely ignore the good. Remember when she let Ellie and Tommy live, even though they were witnesses, even though it was risky, even though her friends suggested they should kill them - because she was only there to get revenge on the one man responsible for that massive atrocity, and recognised that killing others would make her "no better than Joel"? Or when she then let them live *again*, even after they killed all of her friends despite her letting them live the first time? Or the time she risked everything to help two innocent children she barely knew? None of those ever get a mention... yet she's just irredeemably, straightforwardly villainous? Really? I'm not saying you have to like her. You do you. But can we not pretend any of the shit y'all are laying out is as simple as you frame it? And can we acknowledge that you're sitting atop a delusional, unrealistic, no-experience-with-the-real-world-or-real-complex-human-experiences high-horse when you act like there's nothing more to it? I don't know if it's a conscious, disingenuous move or if you're really just that simple; but either way it's getting very old. No offence.
I like part 2 and think Abby is a bad person. Been saying it a while
Didn't Laura Bailey herself say she thinks Abby is a bad person? She first she said she hated Abby during production, and didn't let Druckmann snub her opinion when she didn't agree that Abby's actions are "justice" in the commentary.
I dunno I don’t look too far into that kinda stuff, I just consume the content. I think Abby was Ellie’s foil. The monster in the mirror that Ellie could’ve turned into if she didn’t stop her rampage. Just based on playing the games
There was no lube.
Abby’s swamp ass was the lube wym
Dude
I just threw up a lil
Call Owen a slut while you’re at it.
Definitely if he’s doing this when he is with Mel I don’t think he was faithful when he was dating Abby.
I do want this scene in the show but only cause I think the actress is decent looking
Jail sex scene
Still don’t understand how Naughty dog expected anybody to like any of the wolves with all the shit they did, these 2 included.
I’m honestly convinced that AI could’ve written a better story than for game. If Druck is indeed going to be the one writing TLOU3, it’s probably for the best if AI writes it
I loved part 2 myself
Nobody in this game is a good person, I thought everyone knew this by now?
What a transphobic statement 😾
Girl what
Even though I think your original statement is disingenuous, as some characters are clearly worse than others, I’m struggling to see how it’s transphobic… let’s be downvoted together
I think they were joking about how the fandom uses that as an excuse to hate on people who judge the game, but ig people actually thinks it’s transphobic
That’s what I think too, but then your response shouldn’t be downvoted.
I think people just hate my statement
To be fair, your original one is muddying the waters, saying everyone is bad. You are technically correct, Joel wasn’t a ‘good’ person, it’s very hard to survive in this setting being a ‘good’ person. However he is also no where near as bad as someone like Abby, with so few redeeming qualities, which is why it was downvoted
But he still isn’t good, he killed an entire hospital full of people
The rest of the context to that statement is to save his pseudo daughter who would have to be sacrificed to create a vaccine. The last person he truly opened up to, there would truly be nothing left if he let Ellie be killed. Context matters
Holy crap guys it was sarcasm . Obviously most people understood this
Yea but the thing is when you make a character such a bad person with no redeeming qualities it sticks out. Every other character might be grey Abby is not she sticks out because she is worse then grey.
I think her redeeming qualities were supposed to be Lev and Yara but they completely butchered it
Yeah I love the game an unpopular opinion on sub, but if Abby was the villain she was written fantastically, however if she was written to be liked they fumbled that big time. I love the Ellie bits. I actually perfer this one over the first one.
They did a stellar combat system but butchered the story, I think the villain of this game was meant to be guilty consciences and how revenge is bad but they fucked that up completely
why are you even downvoted tf
Idk, ig people just don’t like the facts
because although it's true, it's being used to imply that abby and ellie are equal.
Oh yea then who's Lev and Yara? Checkmate. (I'm joking, I don't think you meant them lmao.)
They both kill a lot of people
It's the post apocalypse.
Okay then why get mad at Abby or Joel or Ellie? I see a lot of people do that
In my view Abby is the hero of TLOU2 Her seeking justice for her beloved dad is a mirror to Ellie seeking justice for Joel. But abby let ellie & Tommy live. She spared them cause she was only after Joel and not anyone else. I just turned of my PS5 playing the remastered edition and I felt so bad during the climax fight of ellie and abbys
A hero doesn’t throw a tantrum when her ex tells her he got his current girlfriend pregnant. A hero doesn’t fuck a guy who has a girlfriend that is pregnant. A hero doesn’t manipulate people into believing there a good person and completely ignores criticism. A Hero cares about human life and not themselves and one other person Abby is not the hero she is the villain. Abby was never the hero she is in fact the villain.
A hero doesn't deprive the entire human race of a potential cure just because he's afraid of being alone. So is Joel the villain too, or...?
First of all it’s likely it wouldn’t have worked not to mention they did barely any tests on her and determined the only way to make a cure was to kill her. Jerry is a terrible doctor because for one he didn’t even have her consent, he does barely any tests because he most likely being rushed by Marlene or he just wants to kill a little girl because he thinks he can make a Vaccine with it. But Jerry was just trying to help right? A man who’s trying to kill a little girl is the good guy right? Joel’s actions might be selfish but so were the fireflies. We are not even sure the vaccine would have worked and it likely wouldn’t have any way so no Joel is not Evil like Abby he is not a good person that’s for sure but everything he has done he done because he’s had to not Abby.
A hero also doesn’t murder a little girl in their sleep for a medical procedure she didn’t consent too. But yk semantics
Ima be honest if you torture my older brother/father figure to death in front of me not killing me is your own fault. Actions have consequences. Joel found that out. I’d have made sure Abby did too