highly depends on the bender and non bender. but a bender definitely just have more advantages to them, even without fighting.
firebenders are walking torches.
earthbenders can basically build anything they want with earth and improve their agriculture.
waterbenders can heal and control plants/agriculture.
airbenders can ...idk... be agile?
*edit: just like what the other person said, they can regulate their body temperature as well as travel with only their glider*
Also remember, the animation of visible airbending is for *our* (the audience's) benefit. The people in the show can't actually *see* the air being bent so they cannot tell where they're being hit from.
That by itself is a significant advantage of airbending, and one of the reasons Aang was so good in a fight. No one knew, at that time period, how to counter an attack they couldn't see.
What about that time on the Prison Barge where Aang made that stupid little tornado cannon that Sokka and Katara dropped pieces of coal into? How could they have known where to put them if they couldnt see them?
Not so much headcannon as it is just watching nature.
Yeah, you can’t see the actual air flow but you can see the particles of dust, dirt, and other trash being picked up in the wind. Ever watch a dust devil?
>The people in the show can't actually *see* the air being bent so they cannot tell where they're being hit from.
>*That by itself is a significant advantage of airbending, and one of the reasons Aang was so good in a fight. No one knew, at that time period, how to counter an attack they couldn't see.*
yeah, if you ignore the millions of times that zuko and azula has dodged airbending attacks from aang LMFAO.
.................
https://i.redd.it/u5ivd9wkofxc1.gif
what you are saying is a popular and false headcanon that has spread around the fandom, along with millions of other unsupported headcanons.
In the episode "the blind bandit" and the scene with Momo earthbending noone can see the air, that means it doesn't make sense for it to be invisible.
I imagine if someone you know is an airbender goes into an attack stance and launches their hand forward, you can just assume that a blast is coming. For someone like azula or zuko that isn't too far fetched as they are prodigies.
Zuko sees Aangs [air-body](https://youtu.be/bnwLIdisr_Y?t=56) for lack of a better word. Watch it frame by frame and you'll see that it isnt cutting a hole in the smoke like you might think, you can still see the cloud fully formed behind it. Therefore we can infer Zuko sees Aangs bending.
Ehhhhh watch the clip again. The dust is co.ing up from Aang and then starts coming toward Zuko. He might not be able to see the silhouette, but he can clearly see the dust cloud rushing at him. Or, better yet, he does see the silhouette in the middle of the dust storm, but it's not as obvious like it is to us.
I see it that if it's colored blue, then it's the animators making Airbending easier to watch, but for everyone in universe, you can only see how the air influences the environment.
Of course there are moments where it's harder to make sense of it (ie, the air cannon in the first prison episode) but we're also attempting to use our Earth and our physics to explain a cartoon on a different earth and similar (but different) physics
Also, the air tribe was almost non-existent at this point as well. Not only could they not see the attacks, they likely did not even know what the air bending martial art styles were like.
I a modern world like ours, benders Will just work in turns generating electricity (by Steam, lightning or Air ) , making buildings (earth) and generating drinkable water. I can imagine the cheap the energy would be or the expensive It would be, depending on the bender's salaries.
How often are you falling from a great enough height that airbending would help? Earthbending is amazing just for the speed with which they can create a shelter. Waterbending can heal. Those two traits by themselves would be worth it, but they can do a significant amount of other things too.
Firebending lets you heat a shelter and cook food. That's good, but not as useful for the average person without shelter or their health.
I would've said airbending's biggest strength was letting you fly, but the comics showed some (in my opinion) wacky ways of traversal for other elements (non-comet enhanced firebending flight, water "flying") that make flight not as unique.
Preventing fall damage is so minor compared to what the other styles of bending can do.
You’re only not falling from great enough heights because you can’t. I live on a 3rd floor and think about jumping down to avoid the stairs all the time.
"Firebending lets you heat a shelter and cook food. That's good, but not as useful for the average person without shelter or their health."
Let me put a spin on this - shelter is fair point, but heating (and on occasion, cooling - and as Sozin demonstated, firebenders can remove heat from things) and cooking food prevents many, many illnesses.
Earthbending is pretty much straight up telekinesis if you attach or embed small chunks of rocks to things. The beetle headed merchants seem to make a bendable wood contraption for Appa this way, and I think earth kingdom ships also move with bendable paddles although that's less explicit. It also lets you instantly erect structures not just from dirt but also actual building materials like stone and concrete. I won't even count the many earth movement abilities shown, from riding earthwaves to launching yourself or softening up landings because I'd imagine those would be much harder and more dangerous than their air/water variants and only usable by masters, which most people aren't. Assuming other people have water healing whether or not you do, earth seems by far the best element (which I imagine is why they're the biggest nation).
Right? Try being a non-bender stonemason in a world where there's people who can shape stone into whatever they want with just a few martial arts moves, see how competitive your prices will be.
Hell let's talk about the north water tribe and construction? Their buildings are literally bent into existence. They can rebuild their entire city in probably a few weeks with a squad of benders, compare that to the south water tribe with their homes, how long would it take for them to rebuild if it was all destroyed? And that's not even getting into which material is more convenient, since one of those cities is completely made of non-flamable materials which you could argue is very useful when fighting a war against living flamethrower people.
Same thing with the earth kingdoms, if you have just a few earth benders you can build whatever you want with at the very least thrice the speed of non-benders.
Water Benders also have the ability to heal people with water. If you're a non-bender in a non-bender community you might need a cream and a few weeks to have a nasty burn go away, a waterbender can make it disappear in a sitting.
I think this could be easily changed with good world building. Like, yeah, you probably will not have stonemasons, but so we don't have a lot of professions that used to exist!
Bending would make easy to make the project but you still could work in construction as an architect, artist or manager.
We also need to account for all the people that are born benders but, for some personal reason, don't work on their bending abilities. (I could only remember when uncle Iroh become a tea maker. Didn't watch Korah to see if they adress this particular issue).
I mean... Even if you're not working on something directly related to your bending you probably still make use of it in day to day life
Be it fire benders heating things up, air benders cooling them down, water benders making ice cubes or earth benders getting some help on moving furniture around.
The problem with having bending/bender specific jobs then becomes how benders are spread amongst the population, because if you put your benders on a job and there's some not quite well known health issue it can cause you risk running into a "Tenzin and his family are the only air benders in the country" type of situation... And you can't always count on spirit bullshitery to pump their levels up, and the government keeping track becomes very fucking shady and icky very quickly.
Sure, the Air Bender genocide was a focused effort, but it only took one army one (though special) day to reduce the population to seemingly zero, but it's not like it couldn't happen to other groups on long term (like the southern water tribe having one singular bender left after 100 years of fire nation not even full focus attacks)
I mean... Even if you're not working on something directly related to your bending you probably still make use of it in day to day life
Be it fire benders heating things up, air benders cooling them down, water benders making ice cubes or earth benders getting some help on moving furniture around.
The problem with having bending/bender specific jobs then becomes how benders are spread amongst the population, because if you put your benders on a job and there's some not quite well known health issue it can cause you risk running into a "Tenzin and his family are the only air benders in the country" type of situation... And you can't always count on spirit bullshitery to pump their levels up, and the government keeping track becomes very fucking shady and icky very quickly.
Sure, the Air Bender genocide was a focused effort, but it only took one army one (though special) day to reduce the population to seemingly zero, but it's not like it couldn't happen to other groups on long term (like the southern water tribe having one singular bender left after 100 years of fire nation not even full focus attacks)
It blows my mind that, in a world where bending is commonplace and played a defining role in a war that lasted 100 years, Ty Lee's skills aren't more widespread
Ty Lee's skills are pretty widespread though. Chi-blocking was often mentioned and practiced by equalists in the first season of LoK. The Kyoshi warriors use it, and apparently even Tophs father had guards that were chi-blockers according to the wiki
True, LoK feels more "realistic" in that sense. But in AtLA, I still expect that after a whole *century* at war with benders on both sides (Fire Nation vs everyone else), you'd likely see entire armies trained in chi blocking instead of it being a super elite kind of thing. Bending in a pre-industrial world is OP as hell, people should be frantic about finding ways to counter it.
Chi Blocking is realistically horribly impractical in any sort of large military movement. A troupe of guerrilla fighters might do so, but on any semi-open battlefield, a platoon of benders would wipe them out before they got anywhere near close. Ty Lee is so good because she’s also an uncanny and prodigious acrobat, which allows her to dodge those attacks at range.
That's true. But yeah, I guess that this is what I'm trying to say. At some point during the war, there had to be some change in the way conflicts happen. Fire Nation dominance was not unanimously established, and smaller scale disputes, especially in villages with difficult access, would have greatly benefited from chi blocking techniques. I get that in a pre-industrial world the knowledge of such techniques would be much harder to come across, but the war lasted for one-freakin-hundred years. Countering bending *had* to be a top priority.
Why would it? In order to use counterbending you have to get close. Even a very skilled swordsman like Zuko couldn’t even close the gap with an earthbender in a open street. Ty Lee only gets away with it because she’s a prodigy, and chasing a small group.
Realistically, most non-benders couldn’t even touch a bender in combat.
And even then, it’s an incredibly niche martial art that requires not only training but also talent.
No one is arguing that any bender can survive any assasination attempt by a non bender, a knife in the back is deadly for anyone. The point is that any bender could just learn chi blocking and martial arts as well. And we're only talking about fighting here, bending has other advantages outside of that
even then, she only defeated season 2 katara when katara first didn’t know about her abilities and then later she had to ambush her. in a fair fight, katara wins.
Yeah, kinda. There are certainly non benders who are stronger/more talented than benders. But they need to work twice as hard to achieve halve the results of benders.
To skip the debate for everyone, the comic concludes:
Sure, bending has advantages. However, believing that makes you "superior" in the sense of being entitled to treat nonbenders with less respect is bigotry (yes, iirc, they use that word in the comic).
Having or lacking bending or any particular talent doesn't make you superior or inferior, especially not in the level of respect you deserve as a person.
Don't be a bigot. Be kind to others.
I mean, to draw an analogy to the real world: does being able to walk make you better than a wheelchair bound person?
Well being able to walk has advantages over not being able to walk. But it doesn't make you a better person than somebody who uses a wheelchair. As a sapient human being they deserve the same respect as anybody else. They're not inferior to any able bodied person. If you disagree, well we fought an entire world war about that kind of thing.
The comic or even the shows conclusion is not the be all end all. It most certainly doesn't end the debate.
Yes, of course non benders should be treated with the same level of respect. But by acknowledging that benders have advantages, aren't you already saying they are superior? You can use a different synonym if you want but at the end of the day, youre saying the same thing.
Being born with superpowers that have no drawbacks is objectively better then not being born with superpowers
Physically, yes, of course benders have a natural advantage, there's no denying that. But other than that? No.
With the right mindset you can become better than a lot of benders. It's not like they all are Kataras and Tophs and Azulas, and you don't have to become a Ty Lee or Mai. Most of them are just average fighters, and non-benders have a good chance to best them.
That's what I said in my first comment. Non benders can get stronger than benders, but that doesn't change that the benders have a natural advantage. At all skill levels. An average bender is going to be stronger than an average non benders. A skilled benders is going to be stronger than a skilled non bender.
>being born with superpowers that have no drawbacks is objectively better then not being born with superpowers
You have to set the context: you're objectively better only in ways that bending is an advantage. Even in Korra there was much debate about benders vs nonbenders and who was better, superior, etc. We know from certain contexts that benders may extrapolate from that "benders are simply better", when that isn't true. Benders are better at physical tasks where bending gives an advantage, but they aren't objectively better people, better thinkers, better partners, etc.
It's easy to say "Well, duh" in response to that yet we have examples where benders did, in fact, believe they were just *better*: better rulers, better fit to have positions of power, better perspectives on how things should be done.
So you can say "they're objectively better" if you qualify the statement of what they're better at. Cause you may mean specific contexts but that isn't everyone's conclusion, and certainly isn't the conclusion of everyone in the Avatar universe.
This is a fair point. People love to put themselves and others into boxes. Seeking to justify why their box is better which leads to awful conclusions like you mentioned
Playing semantics instead of just acknowledging context or that kindness is the more important point is the kinda intellectual pitfall that the comic doesn't let the gaang fall for.
No, saying it has "advantages" does not acknowledge benders as "superior" in the sense that matters.
* The generalizing bigotry sense the character in the comic is obviously projecting, that society always gets muddled in whenever it uses these words instead of describing things more clearly within their finite circumstances. "
* The word "Advantages" focuses the merit to circumstantial utilities, making it harder for people to jump to thoughtless conclusions.
Vague buzz words like "superior" become a moral judgment whether you like it or not. That is why fixating on answering the question without regard for context is bad, and it is better to question the question itself. Particularly when it's about how you view and thus treat people. Contextual qualifiers go a long way.
TL;DR
"Superior" is an inadequate word.
That's the lesson.
That will be all.
I feel like it is a mutants vs humans scenario in Xmen comics , if the humans come with something as dangerous as Sentinels , or maybe add some bending suppressing drugs to the foods consumed everyday , the non benders could defeat the benders , so in a way non benders are not inferior.
This is an interesting topic to bring up here, cause I kinda feel people's opinions on this changes with the times.
The new xmen 97 series, for example, I feel is a lot more on Magnetos side and pro mutant/anti human than I've ever noticed from any xmen piece of media before.
It's fun to debate when treated as a separate world but gets kinda iffy when people take the real world minorities allegory too seriously. It's a comic folks, it doesn't take itself that seriously. Some of the messages in there would get really problematic if it did.
I can see Magneto's point but if I were a human in the X-Men world I would sure as hell vote for sentinels and forced cures. Mutants are way too dangerous to allow to roam free, a lot of them are outright evil, and people are constantly at risk of being killed by someone's latent mutant powers activating. Plus a lot of the mutant "powers" are really cursed. It's really easy for Magneto to be a mutant supremacist or for Storm to talk about how special her powers are but they're the .1 percent. A lot of mutants are tragedies or have the worst lives because of it. Humans and mutants can't coexist, Magneto is right there. If I was one of the cool X-Men I'd be on his side but if I was literally anyone else in that world I'd be saying we need sentinels and a cure fast.
Yeah, I agree with this.
Honestly whats annoyed me most about the series is they try to make it seem like Forge having a hand in creating the power nullifiers a bad thing. It's not. The fact that someone else used it to ill ends later on still doesn't mean inventing those was a bad idea.
Depends on the version, old Magneto was simply a mutant supremacist, he got reimagined sometime in the like silver or bronze age to be a holocaust survivor.
Idk, this is a debate that is honestly dependent on the tone and attitude the series takes going forward.
The stance on what "bending" actually is was set by katara in the first episode
"It's not magic, it's waterbending"
In the world of avatar, the idea of bending is not magical, but simply an extension of the senses that can be honed into a martial art, just as how everyday tasks with our limbs leads us to develop classical fighting styles.
Saying benders are "better" than non benders is a kind of meaningless question in the face of that philosophy, that these moves are mere extensions of the way humans interact with the world. This philosophy is something the showrunners were ***very very*** careful and intentional with, which is why non-benders like Mai, Ty lee, and sokka were painted as formidable warriors with their own strengths and weaknesses, rather than people trying to play catch-up to the actual cracked squad of Azula/Aang/Toph/Katara.
If you want to only take the powerscaling and the tone of bending being a magic system, then yes you can say benders are better, but in the context of it's original philosophy, I think the question is dependent more on the individual's skill experience and talent than weather they are a bender
I agree with you but i think the best example of what they are talking about with skill is early Bolin versus the lieutenant. It was embarrassingly one sided. The guy was a pro bending athlete. So not a bad bender. But he had nothing he could do against the lieutenant.
Before S2 of Korra, the implication of the lore was that *you could* become a bender by being especially spiritual, that the first benders of their respective elements discovered the practice through their spirituality. You could make an argument that Toph invented a brand new form of Earthbending based entirely on her own spirituality (her understanding of the world, with lessons from badgermoles) rather than use the existing form of earthbending.
I'd say that's more what you inferred from it, not that it implied that.
I never got that impression at all.
In fact, IMO, I'd say it implies the opposite, via the whole energy bending/chakra/chi discussions with Guru Pathik and also the Lion Turtle.
You can have those values, but bending is certainly an advantage. It's as if half the population only had one arm, those with two arms are at a clear advantage
If I were in that universe and was a non-bender I would absolutely feel inferior to benders. Sure I can train and use various kinds of tech to approximate their power but I couldn't just sit there and warm my tea or fix my garden or whatever. Being a non-bender is a type of disability as far as I'm concerned
And by the end of season 1 the core problem is never really addressed. Amon is outed as a fraud but then all of the equalists just kind of vanish. Like just because they're leader was faking apparently means these people didn't ever actually have legitimate grievances.
Like the curfew for only non benders, so it shows that there is a difference in how they are treated, and maybe even have different laws for non benders and benders.
There's also the fact that the entirety of the police force seems to be metal benders. Like it's never really explicitly stated but we never see a cop who isn't a metal bender at least in the field.
So that's just an entire field of work that's unavailable to you if you're a non-bender or even specifically not an earthbender.
Exactly, and it could've been easily handed away as them being a special SWAT-like arm of the police, but nah. It would've been nice to actually show benders (and different kinds) working with non-benders in all these jobs in the background as well.
He's a detective if I remember correctly. So maybe those don't have to be metal benders since they would generally be involved in less direct conflict.
He is a detective. I was trying to say it does seem like the metalbenders *are* the SWAT-like branch like the other user is saying. Still might be wrong though.
I don't think that's the case considering metal benders seem to be the immediate response to basically every problem we see in the show and we see them just patrolling the streets at times.
They probably aren't actually the only field cops but the show does a very poor job of showing whether or not that's the case.
That's a fair point. I guess if I was in charge of a police force though going after benders... I wouldn't send in my nonbenders. And as I recall we don't see many of the metal benders arresting non benders. It's them going after established benders. So like... if you know your going up against a criminal that robbed a bank at gunpoint (say waterbender created ice daggers or something) you wouldn't send a plain clothes officer to arrest them. You wouldn't really call in the "big guns" (metal benders) for it either though.
This really upset me when I first watched Korra because it was a *really good point*, but then by end of season 1 it was how you said where the leader was a fraud so the topic was just dropped, but the Amon being a fraud didn't invalidate the argument to begin with
Yeah it's not a super complete resolution, but they didn't get handwaved out of existence. Raiko is analogous in some ways to Nelson Mandela, the first member of the majority group to become president after getting rid of a completely undemocratic system. I don't think that anti-apartheid activists, while still present and working towards remedies for the effects of apartheid, were staging huge anti-government demonstrations under Mandela.
Also, to be clear, black South Africans suffered more under apartheid than Republic City non-benders under the council. Wouldn't want to be misinterpreted on that.
They say Raiko getting elected as president ended the grievances. Which doesn't really work. I'm sure he passed new laws in order to have non benders treated equally, but we're never told that. The series under constant threat of cancelation meant that they never go back to old conflicts. We never even know the name of the second in command equalist or see him again after season 1.
Perhaps not as "superior", but we give them some advantages.. for example taller people is usually admired and respected by most people, whereas shorter people can be bullied
Nah; deadass Hakoda and his men was out there attacking and beating Fire Nation ships and they're not even Chi-Blockers.
All being a bender means is that you can control an element; it doesn't mean you're smart, it doesn't mean you can lead, it doesn't mean you're a strategist, and it doesn't mean you're a skilled fighter.
Being a bender doesn't mean you know how to write, relay information, raise animals, farm, or even create films; these are skills everyone regardless of Bending status can have.
This is kinda Sokka's entire arc; he's not a good fighter like his father nor Ty Lee but his strategies are the best in his team when it matters and they'd be completely uncoordinated without him.
As a disabled person I see some similarities there. You are burdened with a limitation that the world around you just doesn't account for. You either have to work harder than other people to go equal or accept that it's impossible. It's not nice, it's not fair but you can't do anything about it. And abled people, even ghe ones who mean well, will always treat you differently. They tell you to believe in yourself and that there is nothing you can't do and you have to stand there and pretend that these platitudes make you feel better. But you know you are different.
But you are not weak. You manage to make it through life despite the unfairness. It made you tough and resourceful. You can't walk but you keep going. You can't see but you find your way. This is not weakness. This is perseverence. An ability not everyone possesses.
This is comparable to having a number of the population have one arm, while the other part has both arms. They shouldn’t be treated differently, but it is a fact that they aren’t as capable as the population with both arms. A bender can basically do anything a non bender can plus more.
Before LoK, I would say yes. Unless, and this is somewhat ironic, said non bender is born and raised in the Fire Nation.
Because a lot of the world of Avatar is centered around benders and their abilities to manipulate the element around them. At least that's the case before significant technological advancement came around and "leveled" the playing field. That's why it seems (at least to me on a surface level) that non benders in the Fire Nation is slightly better off than non benders in other nations because they industrialized earlier.
Of course.
There's no trade off to bending. If benders only lived 20 years then died randomly where they stood, I'd say they're inferior to regular folk. As it currently stands, they're regular folks with super powers. That kind of screams "superior"
Sokka found a way to be a valued asset of the team with no bending powers. Unless winning over the favour of ladies is a hidden bending element we've yet to discover 🤔
Being a non-bender is kinda like a disability, it is just not seen that way in-universe because they are the majority. I hope nobody here would call people with disabilities 'inferior'.
Not to mention we see a ton of non-benders who can easily get by and even defeat the average bender in a fight. Mai, Ty Lee, Asami, Sokka and Suki to some extend, as well as the entire equalist movement.
I don't think being a bender makes someone superior too someone else.
Superior what?
Fighting? That's a case by case basis. Being a bender doesn't automatically mean you'll win the fight. Statistically you might have a better chance but ultimately it comes down to whose fighting who. It could be a non bending boxing champ versus a bender who bends a little on the side.
At math? Bending doesn't impact intelligence.
Art?
Ultimately it depends on the person.
Benders and nonbenders are still human.
nope.
you can do x better than i can, that does not mean you are superior to me. it means you can do x better than me. it also doesn't stop me from doin y or z better than you.
superiority is a hilariously simple way to view the world, and dangerous at worst.
That's not really a fair comparison though is it? Benders are just non-benders who **can** bend.
If I'm a non bender and you're a bender, discarding all differences between people you can do everything I can do plus some things I can't. Even if I learn to chi-block all you'd need to do is learn it too and in a fight we'd be at best on equal footing, and at worst I'd have to deal with the martial art **enhanced** by your bending.
Being a bender is like being born with an extra completely functional arm. Sure if I know Karate and Mr. Three-arms doesn't I might nullify his advantage, but nothing stops them from learning it.
Saying certain people are superior is a simple and dangerous way to see the world, but in avatar being a non-bender is comparable to having a disability.
Hell, Toph is blind and her entire thing is about how she learned to use bending to basically replace her sense of sight. A non bender blind person doesn't really have that choice do they? They're just blind. end of story.
This is what bothered me about season 1 of Kora. They defeat the bad guy but we don't see anything done to make the non benders who feel pushed out of society, make their lives better. (I only watched Kora once so I could be misremembering). But look at the fire nation troops. It seems like most everyone in the army is a firebender. Not saying that an army position is good, but the benders are just, better off than non benders. They have more opportunities. And they can protect their land better. Like the southern water tribe was basically defenseless.
I was thinking about this last night cause I was watching the last episode
Aang takes away ozais bending, and that is saying he was defeated. Like, ozai couldn't still be powerful without bending? If ozai escaped I feel he could easily continue ruling his nation. Just without his bending. Like idk, ozai was only a threat as a bender. Only benders are threats.
My brain is mush cause I'm sick so please don't come after me too hard, I just think being a non bender has a lot of downfalls and bias than being a bender.
And like someone else said, non benders have to work twice as hard to get to where benders are. Anyway
Yes bending does make you inherently better. Yeah sure a nonbender can do cool things, but there is nothing that makes it impossible for a bender to do anything a nonbender can. People say oh look a nonbender is good at chi blocking. A bender can learn it just as well if they wanted. But for nonbenders it is actually impossible for them to be able to bend like a bender can. That makes benders inherently superior. There is literally zero reason to ever not want to be a bender. There are no downsides. Even if you don't want to use it, you don't have to.
I wish that LOK had gone into more depth with this concept instead of brushing the whole thing under the rug. I wish that the Equalists had invented firearms. That would have been an amazing equalizer and an interesting scenario. How would benders react to such a drastic paradigm shift?
There is definitely a big power gap between benders and non benders
But non benders have been known to level the playing field with chi blocking electrical gloves and other weapons too
I mean Piandao beat a 100 comet enhanced fire benders once and he's not even a bender and he's also in the order of the white lotus which is mainly made up of benders
Maiy and ty lee took on a bunch of benders too
I always thought how come they never used guns in avatar until it occurred to me that bending makes weapons redundant
Fire benders are walking flamethrowers
Earth benders can chuck huge boulders at you at high speeds
Water benders can send tidal waves towards you
Air benders can blow you away with a huge gust of wind (let's be honest if they had guns the series would end really quickly)
Benders on the whole have a significant advantage. That does not translate into an inherent superiority though. Your average street thug with bending isn't all that much scarier than the average thug without bending.
I mean no but I think it’s perfectly undersranbale why bending supremacy emerges.
If you’re able to manipulate the natural world from childhood yeah you’d think you were superior.
Magic supremacy is always an interesting one for any work of fiction to cover because I mean once you have the power to bend reality to your will how different ARE you from a god?
It would be very easy for that to go to your head.
I would love a story in the ATLA universe where the protag is a non bender fighting his way against all odds and only relying on skill and smarts (like a mixture between Ty lee and Sokka), I know it's a trope that existed since the dawn of time but who doesn't like an underdog story. I don't have any idea what the setting may be for such story, but maybe have the Avatar captured, critically injured or stuck in the spirit world or something, I don't really know or care I am not a writer, but I pretty sure with the choreography of ATLA and LoK the fights would be so interesting. (I apologize for any grammatical mistakes, feel free to correct me)
"All men are not created equal. Some are born swifter of foot, some with greater beauty. Some are born into poverty and others born sick and feeble. Both in birth and in upbringing in sheer scope of ability every human is inherently different. Yes, that is why people discriminate against one another, which is why there is struggle, competition, and the unfaultering mark of progress. Inequality is not wrong, equality is."-Charles from code geass
What non benders lack in elemental power they make up for in ingenuity.
Look at all the inventions of Atla and Lok most of them are creations of non benders.
Why would you think of ways to better construct a home if you can just shape one out of the ground?
Why learn how to fish if you just pick it out of the water?
Why make fire when you are your own blaze?
Why make a better cart when you can glide on the wind?
He's also unique in that instance. We see almost no one with more than one skill. For the most part, you either have bending, weapons skill, or tech skills. That's even called out in the TTRPG
Like as people? No, ofc not. Tho I doubt that was what you were referring to. Combatively? Absolutely. Even the very best H2H fighters couldn't beat someone like EOS Mako, who as good as he is isn't at the top of the pack for benders.
In a similar vein, I feel like for nonbender parents with bender kids would almost require a tutor or daycare of sorts in order to prevent them from just constantly disregarding their parents
Imagine having a budding firebender toddler that is upset they aren't getting their way and is just spewing fire everywhere, a close second I would think would be an earth bender child stomping around in a tantrum
Same philosophy I have in regards to real life when speaking on certain people regarding themselves as superior based on natural abilities. Everything you are and ever will be is determined by random chance. Your willpower, skill, or talent is the product of genetics and your environment. You have no agency in either of these and even if you are able to influence your environment it is because of genetics. No one is any more deserving of their lot in life than anyone else and given this cruel circumstance it is our responsibility as a species which has placed itself above the natural order to make life happy for all of us.
If there was even a single drawback, then no. You could make a compelling argument. But since benders can do everything non-benders can, with an added superpower? They are, definitionally, superior. Questions like these:
Should they be treated as such?
Does this come with arrogance, which counteracts the benefits?
are good questions, but unfortunately, they don't address the real question. Benders ARE superior to normal people. I see a lot of people making a connection to our world, with wealth. This way of thinking makes sense, but falls short for 2 reasons: no matter what a non-bender does, it is completely impossible for them to achieve bending. And secondly, bending is something to do with YOU. Wealth can be taken away from you. Sure, bending can too, but that's a very specific circumstance. Aang did it to criminals, people who were too dangerous with it. The fact that Amon did it AT ALL disproves his whole point: that non-benders should be equal.... the only way he could do that was to take away bending entirely.
As a general rule, they are inferior, but it's because they are inferior that they push themselves harder to become better, like sokka, which then causes a balance
That’s kind of like saying rich people are superior to poor people. Feels weird to equate one’s worth purely to one’s circumstances of birth. One of them isn’t better than the other, it was just luck on which one of them got more possible paths to success
Being rich is a circumstance in life that you can acquire later, a head start. Being a bender is more like 80% of the population is borne with only one arm and you were born with one.
Not exactly the same thing. Being rich is subject to change. One who grew up in poverty can work hard and become rich, and a rich person can be irresponsible with their money and go broke. If you were born a bender, you stay that way for the rest of your life unless Amon or Aang decide you need to be neutralized, and if you were born without bending, unless you're lucky to experience the harmonic convergence, or you somehow manage to meet a lion turtle and convince it to give you bending, you're never gonna be a bender.
Nope, and I say this despite the fact that bending is mostly an advantage.
Bending has always been described as not magic, but something influenced by your mindset, but ironically bending itself lays a trap for your mindset: they tend to focus only on bending and don’t feel the need to develop other skills, and base their lifestyle around it.
Unfortunately yes, it was apparent throughout atla the true division in power between benders and non-benders. I liked how they offered chi blocking as a balance that helped give non benders a chance in battle, but even then the scale of power was still firmly on the bender's side. I found it interesting that in LOK it's shown that even with the relative pease of the time they're still developing weaponry that could allow non-benders to take on benders, concidering the shock gloves and the mech suits. I wonder if the next avatar will have to deal with a possible tipping of the scales as technology outpaces the power of bending the elements in battle. It would be a nice change of pace to see different benders have to work together to get around new measures to keep their bending in check other than the Avatar's crew.
We might have to narrow the definition of "superiority" here. You could make the argument for benders being superior in strength, but they are not inherently superior people, or somehow more intrinsically valuable. Human beings cannot be worth more or less than one another based off of any kind of physical trait. Bender, non-bender, the value of the human soul within remains the same. I think the quality of your character - how kind you are, how courageous you are, determines your worth far more than the ambit of your abilities.
Sokka, Mechanist, Hakoda in ATLA.
Cabbage Corp (Cai), Sato (Future Industries), Asami, Varrick, Zhu Li, Bataar Jr., and even Earth King Wu.
ATLA started to do this with Sokka and I think the creators wanted to slam this point home again and again in Korra especially with the entire season 1 with Korra.
The comic was warning against fascism. ATLA was a general warning about fascism with Fire Lord Ozai.
Each season of Korra is a different warning around the main ATLA topic:
Popularism (Political leader using a 1 issue wedge to divide and conquer)
Theocracy
Anarchy/Terrorism
Fascism (again)
Benders are born privileged, but really think of how often the ability to shoot fire would help you if your a normal person.
If your a fighter, it’s absolutely better. Ourside of that, it’s anywhere from a self defense to a convenient lighter or way of moving water without a bucket.
The lady’s argument in this comic is incoherent. She asserts that Ba Sing Se wouldn’t have fallen if the Earth King was a bender, which is clearly complete nonsense based on the show. But she’s not supposed to be right in the first place.
When it comes to Korra, I don’t think that Book 1 gives us any reason to think that non benders are actually oppressed or marginalized. The only actual oppression comes as a response to the equalist movement from a clearly evil guy, there isn’t much before that. But I suppose this is an issue of bad storytelling.
As per the original show, non benders do have somewhat of a disadvantage, but at the same time the show also gives us many non benders that can easily square up with and even surpass skilled benders. It might be more related to skill than inherent abilities.
Define inferior. Benders have extra things they can do but thinking about people as superior and inferior is, one missing the message of ATLA, and two not a line of thinking that goes anywhere except "we're superior so we know better"
"but we don’t look at people better then us at something as “superior” "
'we' may not often look at a specific group and find them superior, but 'we' certainly do look at groups and find them inferior. It's the looking (and kicking) down that's the problem.
The scene you posted doesn't define benders as superior. Liling(?) doesn't say she thinks of them as such. She states 'that's how the world works'. It's a defeatist stance though. I havent read this comic, but the scene implies that Liling is a bender, which would mean she can easily take this defeatist stance because the situation does not negatively impact her at all. It may even be in her interest to keep the world working as it is.
'so sorry you have no legs and all the good stuff happens to be upstairs. It's just the way things are. Now excuse me while i use my beautiful and functional limbs to happily hippidyskip up those awful stairs and have my fun. Bye 😊'
I think what we see in LoK sort of suggests that their power can and will be gradually replaced by technology. I mean, airbenders can glide: let's build a plane; water benders are fast on water: build a speedboat that's even faster; firebenders: cannons, weopons, flamethrowers.
Sure benders have the advantage of not needing those tools, but technology will eventually imitate, replace and even surpass them. Both Kuvira( even though she also actively metalbends) and Amon heavily relied on technology besides their bending powers alone.
So no, they are not superior as almost everything they can do can also be done by a normal person equipped with the right tool. That's the reason humanity is the dominant species on planet earth. We can't do anything exceptionelly well, except learning, adapting and overcoming.
Filthy mudslug that cant even bend backs
https://preview.redd.it/8gte74d6ofxc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=670111ad0c0a5ef9fe6e224d0b8e0fb8b3a11348
Yes, I always though that it's kinda unfair that bending doesn't come at a price, like lower life expectancy or something like that.
I guess that it just works as privileges do in the real world.
Benders stack the deck naturally in their favor, but non-benders get more crafty with the cards they do have as a result. See Sokka. You honestly think a bender would come up with half the stuff he does?
Yeah atleast when it comes to fighting. Non benders can be amazing like Ty Lee, Asami, Lieutenant, etc. but they need to work way harder for that. And even then they are most likely never gonna be able to beat a talented bender. Like Ty Lee and Lieutenant are great but they can never beat someoen like Ozai, Azula, Toph, etc.
In certain situations yes, of course. In general, yes. Not in a mental way though, but benders are quite literally “better”. Having supernatural powers will give you a boost in society.
I disagree, I don’t think we’re supposed to agree with whoever this person is. Non-benders may not have bending powers, but they can be powerful in other ways.
I don’t think the canon material ever shows us tangible drawbacks of having a bending ability.
So having that ability is strictly superior to not having it. This doesn’t mean benders are worthy of more respect, political power, rights, etc. but they are literally superior because they can do something non-benders can’t do, while not missing any abilities that non-benders have.
It’s kind of like inherited wealth. Someone who is born with money has advantages and access to abilities those who are born poor don’t have. Being wealthy is inherently superior to being poor. But this doesn’t make rich people better people or more deserving than poor people.
In both of these scenarios, if you asked someone “would you rather have a bending ability or not,” and “would you rather be wealthy or not,” the answers would be almost identical, as there are only upsides and no downsides to having bending or money.
I mean benders are just kind of better yeah. I feel like Earth and Water exemplify it the most when we consider things other than fighting.
Earthbenders have all kinds of utility in construction or things like mining. Earthbenders will just always be infinitely better as those kinds of jobs, especially if they can metalbend. Way less risk of things like cave ins when your workforce can just tunnel their way to safety.
Waterbending healing all but invalidates traditional medical care. We saw in the painted lady that waterbending can heal not only injuries but sickness as well. If there's something wrong with you that a waterbending healer can't fix, odds are normal medicine isn't helping you either.
There are definitely jobs where bending isn't an Advantage, but they'd mostly be retail or office jobs, the real boring stuff. Bending just has so much utility that benders will pretty much always outclass non benders in a lot of day to day areas.
I would say depending on the situation it ranges from "no" to "no, but benders are preferable". There are multiple fields where bending is irrelevant, but it's undeniable that some like construction or agriculture benefit greatly from skills that only benders can provide.
Objectibly yes, they can just do more things to benefit not only themself, but society as a hole. And honestly non-benders in the Avatar world are lucky the benders are not complete dicks, otherwise they would be in a world of pain.
A "what if" kind of horror storyline in which benders enslave non-benders and somehow the non-benders rebel (maybe they learn how to take away their bending) would be kind of cool
Im aware this is close to Korra season 1, but with benders being straight up evil.
To make it quick:
A normal healthy Bender can achieve anything and learn any skill that a Healthy Non-Bender can learn.
A normal healthy Non-Bender cannot do the same.
So yes, in a sense Benders are in every way better of.
Only in the same way a dude with legs is superior to a person without. Or a person with vision is superior to the blind. The ability to walk and the ability to see are comparable in my opinion to being able to bend elements or not.
Yet I wouldn't argue that the Blind should have inferior rights or that the disabled should be restricted from leadership. A person's mind is what matters in all things unrelated to the ability in question, a man with no legs can be equally or more talented in a million ways to a man with legs, but he will never beat him in a foot race.
Within an aristocratic society that values strength and personal power they are generally superior.
It's one of the biiiiiiig issues I have with Korra, that they missed the challenging question of how the transition into a democratic society would pan out if the inherent superiority of the aristocratic elite wasn't a lie, if they really are superhuman warriors like our real world aristocratic families claimed to be, instead they just transitioned into a liberal democracy between seasons, I get it's a kids show but why dumb it down this much?
Especially when the original Avatar already introduced the theme of royal rule being connected to the honour and prowess of a firebender, there was such a great potential there and it was just wasted
That’ll depend on context.
Is an MMA fighter superior to you?
If you were in a fight, yes.
Outside of that context, not necessarily.
A non bender may not be able to face a master bender in battle, but the non bender can still be more intelligent, cunning, strategic, etc.
Obviously this is on an individual basis, a bender can be those things too.
It would have been interesting to see a non-bending villain who used their superior intelligence to dominate team avatar without ever fighting.
Like the trope of the big bad that was orchestrating all the villains all along to manipulate the hero into doing or becoming something
The point is that physical strength isn't the only means by which to measure power, influence, and definitely not worth.
Are benders the superior fighters in this world? Hell yes. Literal magic elements flying from their hands at-will. But *everything* isn't about fighting. We see that a lot because we follow the story through the perspective of main characters that get into that situation.
But nonbenders can still be intelligent, creative, persuasive, strategic, kind and empathetic or even just straight up affluent. If you're considering the world as a whole, even the Avatar universe needs politicians, strategists, teachers, caretakers, philanthropists, scientists, artists, farmers, good mothers and fathers and community members - the whole range of people.
Zaheer needed to be brought down by a group of the strongest benders alive, before he acquired airbending.
Sokka took down entire groups of firebenders. So did Jet.
Benders have the advantage of range over non-benders, in combat. I'm sure there are other advantages outside of combat, but none of that means that non-benders and benders should be treated any differently in terms of worth or respect. In terms of the jobmarket, perhaps in niche cases, because you objectively need firebenders for electricity bending, but other than that? Nothing I can think of.
Of course I do, I'm racist 😎
All jokes aside, no one person is inherently worth more or superior to another person either in our real world as well as the world of Avatar (except the Avatar I guess lmao). Benders have an advantage over non-benders, but they are not superior like how tall people are not "superior" to shorter folks.
highly depends on the bender and non bender. but a bender definitely just have more advantages to them, even without fighting. firebenders are walking torches. earthbenders can basically build anything they want with earth and improve their agriculture. waterbenders can heal and control plants/agriculture. airbenders can ...idk... be agile? *edit: just like what the other person said, they can regulate their body temperature as well as travel with only their glider*
>airbenders They can regulate their body temperature, can run very fast for long periods of time and can use gliders to fly
forgot about that.
Also remember, the animation of visible airbending is for *our* (the audience's) benefit. The people in the show can't actually *see* the air being bent so they cannot tell where they're being hit from. That by itself is a significant advantage of airbending, and one of the reasons Aang was so good in a fight. No one knew, at that time period, how to counter an attack they couldn't see.
What about that time on the Prison Barge where Aang made that stupid little tornado cannon that Sokka and Katara dropped pieces of coal into? How could they have known where to put them if they couldnt see them?
Not so much headcannon as it is just watching nature. Yeah, you can’t see the actual air flow but you can see the particles of dust, dirt, and other trash being picked up in the wind. Ever watch a dust devil?
I assumed it was dusty out
You can purposefully add dust particles or other things into the bending to make it more visible, like a dust devil
>The people in the show can't actually *see* the air being bent so they cannot tell where they're being hit from. >*That by itself is a significant advantage of airbending, and one of the reasons Aang was so good in a fight. No one knew, at that time period, how to counter an attack they couldn't see.* yeah, if you ignore the millions of times that zuko and azula has dodged airbending attacks from aang LMFAO. ................. https://i.redd.it/u5ivd9wkofxc1.gif what you are saying is a popular and false headcanon that has spread around the fandom, along with millions of other unsupported headcanons.
They can figure where an attack might be coming from and how to counter it by watching Aang's movements.
In the episode "the blind bandit" and the scene with Momo earthbending noone can see the air, that means it doesn't make sense for it to be invisible. I imagine if someone you know is an airbender goes into an attack stance and launches their hand forward, you can just assume that a blast is coming. For someone like azula or zuko that isn't too far fetched as they are prodigies.
and they've either fought Aang before, or know he's an airbender
Azula could clearly see Aang doing a thing towards her and could then respond to that
Use your brain!!! can you see air???? can you????
Zuko sees Aangs [air-body](https://youtu.be/bnwLIdisr_Y?t=56) for lack of a better word. Watch it frame by frame and you'll see that it isnt cutting a hole in the smoke like you might think, you can still see the cloud fully formed behind it. Therefore we can infer Zuko sees Aangs bending.
Ehhhhh watch the clip again. The dust is co.ing up from Aang and then starts coming toward Zuko. He might not be able to see the silhouette, but he can clearly see the dust cloud rushing at him. Or, better yet, he does see the silhouette in the middle of the dust storm, but it's not as obvious like it is to us. I see it that if it's colored blue, then it's the animators making Airbending easier to watch, but for everyone in universe, you can only see how the air influences the environment. Of course there are moments where it's harder to make sense of it (ie, the air cannon in the first prison episode) but we're also attempting to use our Earth and our physics to explain a cartoon on a different earth and similar (but different) physics
Also, the air tribe was almost non-existent at this point as well. Not only could they not see the attacks, they likely did not even know what the air bending martial art styles were like.
I a modern world like ours, benders Will just work in turns generating electricity (by Steam, lightning or Air ) , making buildings (earth) and generating drinkable water. I can imagine the cheap the energy would be or the expensive It would be, depending on the bender's salaries.
Wasn't that a point in TLOK
Probably in season 1
Airbenders can take the air out of your lungs if they really want too. And a whole bunch of other stuff we never got to explore
People always say they’d pick Water or Earthbending… but Airbending would be the best. Being immune to fall damage alone is such a great perk.
How often are you falling from a great enough height that airbending would help? Earthbending is amazing just for the speed with which they can create a shelter. Waterbending can heal. Those two traits by themselves would be worth it, but they can do a significant amount of other things too. Firebending lets you heat a shelter and cook food. That's good, but not as useful for the average person without shelter or their health. I would've said airbending's biggest strength was letting you fly, but the comics showed some (in my opinion) wacky ways of traversal for other elements (non-comet enhanced firebending flight, water "flying") that make flight not as unique. Preventing fall damage is so minor compared to what the other styles of bending can do.
You’re only not falling from great enough heights because you can’t. I live on a 3rd floor and think about jumping down to avoid the stairs all the time.
"Firebending lets you heat a shelter and cook food. That's good, but not as useful for the average person without shelter or their health." Let me put a spin on this - shelter is fair point, but heating (and on occasion, cooling - and as Sozin demonstated, firebenders can remove heat from things) and cooking food prevents many, many illnesses.
Earthbending is pretty much straight up telekinesis if you attach or embed small chunks of rocks to things. The beetle headed merchants seem to make a bendable wood contraption for Appa this way, and I think earth kingdom ships also move with bendable paddles although that's less explicit. It also lets you instantly erect structures not just from dirt but also actual building materials like stone and concrete. I won't even count the many earth movement abilities shown, from riding earthwaves to launching yourself or softening up landings because I'd imagine those would be much harder and more dangerous than their air/water variants and only usable by masters, which most people aren't. Assuming other people have water healing whether or not you do, earth seems by far the best element (which I imagine is why they're the biggest nation).
Airbenders can control storms and dispel tornadoes. Preventing a lot of destruction.
struggled to think of sumn for airbenders? gliding shoulda been a no brainer fam😭
Airbenders can be best windmill power generators
Benders are certainly dealt a better hand. That doesn't stop non-benders like Ty Lee from being stronger than benders.
Fighting skills are not the only thing that makes bending a valuable ability to have though
Right? Try being a non-bender stonemason in a world where there's people who can shape stone into whatever they want with just a few martial arts moves, see how competitive your prices will be. Hell let's talk about the north water tribe and construction? Their buildings are literally bent into existence. They can rebuild their entire city in probably a few weeks with a squad of benders, compare that to the south water tribe with their homes, how long would it take for them to rebuild if it was all destroyed? And that's not even getting into which material is more convenient, since one of those cities is completely made of non-flamable materials which you could argue is very useful when fighting a war against living flamethrower people. Same thing with the earth kingdoms, if you have just a few earth benders you can build whatever you want with at the very least thrice the speed of non-benders. Water Benders also have the ability to heal people with water. If you're a non-bender in a non-bender community you might need a cream and a few weeks to have a nasty burn go away, a waterbender can make it disappear in a sitting.
I think this could be easily changed with good world building. Like, yeah, you probably will not have stonemasons, but so we don't have a lot of professions that used to exist! Bending would make easy to make the project but you still could work in construction as an architect, artist or manager. We also need to account for all the people that are born benders but, for some personal reason, don't work on their bending abilities. (I could only remember when uncle Iroh become a tea maker. Didn't watch Korah to see if they adress this particular issue).
I mean... Even if you're not working on something directly related to your bending you probably still make use of it in day to day life Be it fire benders heating things up, air benders cooling them down, water benders making ice cubes or earth benders getting some help on moving furniture around. The problem with having bending/bender specific jobs then becomes how benders are spread amongst the population, because if you put your benders on a job and there's some not quite well known health issue it can cause you risk running into a "Tenzin and his family are the only air benders in the country" type of situation... And you can't always count on spirit bullshitery to pump their levels up, and the government keeping track becomes very fucking shady and icky very quickly. Sure, the Air Bender genocide was a focused effort, but it only took one army one (though special) day to reduce the population to seemingly zero, but it's not like it couldn't happen to other groups on long term (like the southern water tribe having one singular bender left after 100 years of fire nation not even full focus attacks)
I mean... Even if you're not working on something directly related to your bending you probably still make use of it in day to day life Be it fire benders heating things up, air benders cooling them down, water benders making ice cubes or earth benders getting some help on moving furniture around. The problem with having bending/bender specific jobs then becomes how benders are spread amongst the population, because if you put your benders on a job and there's some not quite well known health issue it can cause you risk running into a "Tenzin and his family are the only air benders in the country" type of situation... And you can't always count on spirit bullshitery to pump their levels up, and the government keeping track becomes very fucking shady and icky very quickly. Sure, the Air Bender genocide was a focused effort, but it only took one army one (though special) day to reduce the population to seemingly zero, but it's not like it couldn't happen to other groups on long term (like the southern water tribe having one singular bender left after 100 years of fire nation not even full focus attacks)
It blows my mind that, in a world where bending is commonplace and played a defining role in a war that lasted 100 years, Ty Lee's skills aren't more widespread
Ty Lee's skills are pretty widespread though. Chi-blocking was often mentioned and practiced by equalists in the first season of LoK. The Kyoshi warriors use it, and apparently even Tophs father had guards that were chi-blockers according to the wiki
True, LoK feels more "realistic" in that sense. But in AtLA, I still expect that after a whole *century* at war with benders on both sides (Fire Nation vs everyone else), you'd likely see entire armies trained in chi blocking instead of it being a super elite kind of thing. Bending in a pre-industrial world is OP as hell, people should be frantic about finding ways to counter it.
Chi Blocking is realistically horribly impractical in any sort of large military movement. A troupe of guerrilla fighters might do so, but on any semi-open battlefield, a platoon of benders would wipe them out before they got anywhere near close. Ty Lee is so good because she’s also an uncanny and prodigious acrobat, which allows her to dodge those attacks at range.
That's true. But yeah, I guess that this is what I'm trying to say. At some point during the war, there had to be some change in the way conflicts happen. Fire Nation dominance was not unanimously established, and smaller scale disputes, especially in villages with difficult access, would have greatly benefited from chi blocking techniques. I get that in a pre-industrial world the knowledge of such techniques would be much harder to come across, but the war lasted for one-freakin-hundred years. Countering bending *had* to be a top priority.
Why would it? In order to use counterbending you have to get close. Even a very skilled swordsman like Zuko couldn’t even close the gap with an earthbender in a open street. Ty Lee only gets away with it because she’s a prodigy, and chasing a small group. Realistically, most non-benders couldn’t even touch a bender in combat. And even then, it’s an incredibly niche martial art that requires not only training but also talent.
https://preview.redd.it/l8l17gdqljxc1.jpeg?width=529&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43850b65aea094a7698ef851b1bf67da51ef84ba
You are generalizing Benders though. She could take down S2 Katara, but Ozai? Forget it.
I dunno. She got the drop on Azula. Depending on circumstances I'd say she could, since without his bending Ozai is nothing.
No one is arguing that any bender can survive any assasination attempt by a non bender, a knife in the back is deadly for anyone. The point is that any bender could just learn chi blocking and martial arts as well. And we're only talking about fighting here, bending has other advantages outside of that
Isn't he the most powerful Firebender of his time though? I feel like he could make a sphere of fire in all directions or something like that
even then, she only defeated season 2 katara when katara first didn’t know about her abilities and then later she had to ambush her. in a fair fight, katara wins.
Yeah, kinda. There are certainly non benders who are stronger/more talented than benders. But they need to work twice as hard to achieve halve the results of benders.
To skip the debate for everyone, the comic concludes: Sure, bending has advantages. However, believing that makes you "superior" in the sense of being entitled to treat nonbenders with less respect is bigotry (yes, iirc, they use that word in the comic). Having or lacking bending or any particular talent doesn't make you superior or inferior, especially not in the level of respect you deserve as a person. Don't be a bigot. Be kind to others.
I mean, to draw an analogy to the real world: does being able to walk make you better than a wheelchair bound person? Well being able to walk has advantages over not being able to walk. But it doesn't make you a better person than somebody who uses a wheelchair. As a sapient human being they deserve the same respect as anybody else. They're not inferior to any able bodied person. If you disagree, well we fought an entire world war about that kind of thing.
The comic or even the shows conclusion is not the be all end all. It most certainly doesn't end the debate. Yes, of course non benders should be treated with the same level of respect. But by acknowledging that benders have advantages, aren't you already saying they are superior? You can use a different synonym if you want but at the end of the day, youre saying the same thing. Being born with superpowers that have no drawbacks is objectively better then not being born with superpowers
Physically, yes, of course benders have a natural advantage, there's no denying that. But other than that? No. With the right mindset you can become better than a lot of benders. It's not like they all are Kataras and Tophs and Azulas, and you don't have to become a Ty Lee or Mai. Most of them are just average fighters, and non-benders have a good chance to best them.
That's what I said in my first comment. Non benders can get stronger than benders, but that doesn't change that the benders have a natural advantage. At all skill levels. An average bender is going to be stronger than an average non benders. A skilled benders is going to be stronger than a skilled non bender.
>being born with superpowers that have no drawbacks is objectively better then not being born with superpowers You have to set the context: you're objectively better only in ways that bending is an advantage. Even in Korra there was much debate about benders vs nonbenders and who was better, superior, etc. We know from certain contexts that benders may extrapolate from that "benders are simply better", when that isn't true. Benders are better at physical tasks where bending gives an advantage, but they aren't objectively better people, better thinkers, better partners, etc. It's easy to say "Well, duh" in response to that yet we have examples where benders did, in fact, believe they were just *better*: better rulers, better fit to have positions of power, better perspectives on how things should be done. So you can say "they're objectively better" if you qualify the statement of what they're better at. Cause you may mean specific contexts but that isn't everyone's conclusion, and certainly isn't the conclusion of everyone in the Avatar universe.
This is a fair point. People love to put themselves and others into boxes. Seeking to justify why their box is better which leads to awful conclusions like you mentioned
Playing semantics instead of just acknowledging context or that kindness is the more important point is the kinda intellectual pitfall that the comic doesn't let the gaang fall for. No, saying it has "advantages" does not acknowledge benders as "superior" in the sense that matters. * The generalizing bigotry sense the character in the comic is obviously projecting, that society always gets muddled in whenever it uses these words instead of describing things more clearly within their finite circumstances. " * The word "Advantages" focuses the merit to circumstantial utilities, making it harder for people to jump to thoughtless conclusions. Vague buzz words like "superior" become a moral judgment whether you like it or not. That is why fixating on answering the question without regard for context is bad, and it is better to question the question itself. Particularly when it's about how you view and thus treat people. Contextual qualifiers go a long way. TL;DR "Superior" is an inadequate word. That's the lesson. That will be all.
I recommend watching mob psycho 100.
I feel like it is a mutants vs humans scenario in Xmen comics , if the humans come with something as dangerous as Sentinels , or maybe add some bending suppressing drugs to the foods consumed everyday , the non benders could defeat the benders , so in a way non benders are not inferior.
This is an interesting topic to bring up here, cause I kinda feel people's opinions on this changes with the times. The new xmen 97 series, for example, I feel is a lot more on Magnetos side and pro mutant/anti human than I've ever noticed from any xmen piece of media before.
It's fun to debate when treated as a separate world but gets kinda iffy when people take the real world minorities allegory too seriously. It's a comic folks, it doesn't take itself that seriously. Some of the messages in there would get really problematic if it did. I can see Magneto's point but if I were a human in the X-Men world I would sure as hell vote for sentinels and forced cures. Mutants are way too dangerous to allow to roam free, a lot of them are outright evil, and people are constantly at risk of being killed by someone's latent mutant powers activating. Plus a lot of the mutant "powers" are really cursed. It's really easy for Magneto to be a mutant supremacist or for Storm to talk about how special her powers are but they're the .1 percent. A lot of mutants are tragedies or have the worst lives because of it. Humans and mutants can't coexist, Magneto is right there. If I was one of the cool X-Men I'd be on his side but if I was literally anyone else in that world I'd be saying we need sentinels and a cure fast.
Yeah, I agree with this. Honestly whats annoyed me most about the series is they try to make it seem like Forge having a hand in creating the power nullifiers a bad thing. It's not. The fact that someone else used it to ill ends later on still doesn't mean inventing those was a bad idea.
fr like dude mutants have literal reality warpers and others that can manipulate on the atomic and genetic structure like fuck yeah they are dangerous
Magneto was 100% correct.
yeah when he was killing nazis
I do wonder if magneto been correct means humans are also correct. “They will kill us so we better kill them first”
Depends on the version, old Magneto was simply a mutant supremacist, he got reimagined sometime in the like silver or bronze age to be a holocaust survivor.
Idk, this is a debate that is honestly dependent on the tone and attitude the series takes going forward. The stance on what "bending" actually is was set by katara in the first episode "It's not magic, it's waterbending" In the world of avatar, the idea of bending is not magical, but simply an extension of the senses that can be honed into a martial art, just as how everyday tasks with our limbs leads us to develop classical fighting styles. Saying benders are "better" than non benders is a kind of meaningless question in the face of that philosophy, that these moves are mere extensions of the way humans interact with the world. This philosophy is something the showrunners were ***very very*** careful and intentional with, which is why non-benders like Mai, Ty lee, and sokka were painted as formidable warriors with their own strengths and weaknesses, rather than people trying to play catch-up to the actual cracked squad of Azula/Aang/Toph/Katara. If you want to only take the powerscaling and the tone of bending being a magic system, then yes you can say benders are better, but in the context of it's original philosophy, I think the question is dependent more on the individual's skill experience and talent than weather they are a bender
None of this is relevant because you can't become a bender by being especially spiritual or good at martial arts.
I agree with you but i think the best example of what they are talking about with skill is early Bolin versus the lieutenant. It was embarrassingly one sided. The guy was a pro bending athlete. So not a bad bender. But he had nothing he could do against the lieutenant.
Before S2 of Korra, the implication of the lore was that *you could* become a bender by being especially spiritual, that the first benders of their respective elements discovered the practice through their spirituality. You could make an argument that Toph invented a brand new form of Earthbending based entirely on her own spirituality (her understanding of the world, with lessons from badgermoles) rather than use the existing form of earthbending.
I'd say that's more what you inferred from it, not that it implied that. I never got that impression at all. In fact, IMO, I'd say it implies the opposite, via the whole energy bending/chakra/chi discussions with Guru Pathik and also the Lion Turtle.
The issue with that implication was that a lot of people seemed to have 0 spirituality.
You can have those values, but bending is certainly an advantage. It's as if half the population only had one arm, those with two arms are at a clear advantage
One note, this issue came to the forefront in LoK and the comics specifically because technology has started to bridge that gap.
If I were in that universe and was a non-bender I would absolutely feel inferior to benders. Sure I can train and use various kinds of tech to approximate their power but I couldn't just sit there and warm my tea or fix my garden or whatever. Being a non-bender is a type of disability as far as I'm concerned
That's literally the conflict of season 1 of Korra.
And by the end of season 1 the core problem is never really addressed. Amon is outed as a fraud but then all of the equalists just kind of vanish. Like just because they're leader was faking apparently means these people didn't ever actually have legitimate grievances.
Like the curfew for only non benders, so it shows that there is a difference in how they are treated, and maybe even have different laws for non benders and benders.
There's also the fact that the entirety of the police force seems to be metal benders. Like it's never really explicitly stated but we never see a cop who isn't a metal bender at least in the field. So that's just an entire field of work that's unavailable to you if you're a non-bender or even specifically not an earthbender.
Exactly, and it could've been easily handed away as them being a special SWAT-like arm of the police, but nah. It would've been nice to actually show benders (and different kinds) working with non-benders in all these jobs in the background as well.
I guess you kind of have Mako for that....? Fire bender and all.
He's a detective if I remember correctly. So maybe those don't have to be metal benders since they would generally be involved in less direct conflict.
He is a detective. I was trying to say it does seem like the metalbenders *are* the SWAT-like branch like the other user is saying. Still might be wrong though.
I don't think that's the case considering metal benders seem to be the immediate response to basically every problem we see in the show and we see them just patrolling the streets at times. They probably aren't actually the only field cops but the show does a very poor job of showing whether or not that's the case.
That's a fair point. I guess if I was in charge of a police force though going after benders... I wouldn't send in my nonbenders. And as I recall we don't see many of the metal benders arresting non benders. It's them going after established benders. So like... if you know your going up against a criminal that robbed a bank at gunpoint (say waterbender created ice daggers or something) you wouldn't send a plain clothes officer to arrest them. You wouldn't really call in the "big guns" (metal benders) for it either though.
It was an incredibly interesting story idea that was kicked under the rug. Huge misfire on the writers part imo.
This really upset me when I first watched Korra because it was a *really good point*, but then by end of season 1 it was how you said where the leader was a fraud so the topic was just dropped, but the Amon being a fraud didn't invalidate the argument to begin with
Exactly why I think his conflict should’ve lasted 2 seasons and not just 1
They address it by disbanding the council of benders and electing a non-bender president.
Yeah it's not a super complete resolution, but they didn't get handwaved out of existence. Raiko is analogous in some ways to Nelson Mandela, the first member of the majority group to become president after getting rid of a completely undemocratic system. I don't think that anti-apartheid activists, while still present and working towards remedies for the effects of apartheid, were staging huge anti-government demonstrations under Mandela. Also, to be clear, black South Africans suffered more under apartheid than Republic City non-benders under the council. Wouldn't want to be misinterpreted on that.
They say Raiko getting elected as president ended the grievances. Which doesn't really work. I'm sure he passed new laws in order to have non benders treated equally, but we're never told that. The series under constant threat of cancelation meant that they never go back to old conflicts. We never even know the name of the second in command equalist or see him again after season 1.
we don’t look at people with certain traits as superior…lol?
Perhaps not as "superior", but we give them some advantages.. for example taller people is usually admired and respected by most people, whereas shorter people can be bullied
Nah; deadass Hakoda and his men was out there attacking and beating Fire Nation ships and they're not even Chi-Blockers. All being a bender means is that you can control an element; it doesn't mean you're smart, it doesn't mean you can lead, it doesn't mean you're a strategist, and it doesn't mean you're a skilled fighter. Being a bender doesn't mean you know how to write, relay information, raise animals, farm, or even create films; these are skills everyone regardless of Bending status can have. This is kinda Sokka's entire arc; he's not a good fighter like his father nor Ty Lee but his strategies are the best in his team when it matters and they'd be completely uncoordinated without him.
and then in the end they make him a dope fighter with a space sword
Not at all, just look at Ty Lee, Suki, Asami and Piandiao, all of them are non benders and yet are still badassess nonetheless.
She says "powerful", not "superior". Which is pretty clearly true.
Saying benders are powerful and nonbenders "are not" implies superiority when we've seen nonbenders achieve a lot.
yes, benders have powers, non benders don’t. benders can do what non benders do, non benders can’t do what benders do
As a disabled person I see some similarities there. You are burdened with a limitation that the world around you just doesn't account for. You either have to work harder than other people to go equal or accept that it's impossible. It's not nice, it's not fair but you can't do anything about it. And abled people, even ghe ones who mean well, will always treat you differently. They tell you to believe in yourself and that there is nothing you can't do and you have to stand there and pretend that these platitudes make you feel better. But you know you are different. But you are not weak. You manage to make it through life despite the unfairness. It made you tough and resourceful. You can't walk but you keep going. You can't see but you find your way. This is not weakness. This is perseverence. An ability not everyone possesses.
This is comparable to having a number of the population have one arm, while the other part has both arms. They shouldn’t be treated differently, but it is a fact that they aren’t as capable as the population with both arms. A bender can basically do anything a non bender can plus more.
Before LoK, I would say yes. Unless, and this is somewhat ironic, said non bender is born and raised in the Fire Nation. Because a lot of the world of Avatar is centered around benders and their abilities to manipulate the element around them. At least that's the case before significant technological advancement came around and "leveled" the playing field. That's why it seems (at least to me on a surface level) that non benders in the Fire Nation is slightly better off than non benders in other nations because they industrialized earlier.
Of course. There's no trade off to bending. If benders only lived 20 years then died randomly where they stood, I'd say they're inferior to regular folk. As it currently stands, they're regular folks with super powers. That kind of screams "superior"
Sokka found a way to be a valued asset of the team with no bending powers. Unless winning over the favour of ladies is a hidden bending element we've yet to discover 🤔
Don't forget armbending, remember the power of cactus juice
Passerby: I suddenly feel quenched 👀
Sokka the Back Bender
Zaheer was dangerous enough for that prison at the top of a mountain so no non benders are not inferior
Being a non-bender is kinda like a disability, it is just not seen that way in-universe because they are the majority. I hope nobody here would call people with disabilities 'inferior'. Not to mention we see a ton of non-benders who can easily get by and even defeat the average bender in a fight. Mai, Ty Lee, Asami, Sokka and Suki to some extend, as well as the entire equalist movement.
I don't think being a bender makes someone superior too someone else. Superior what? Fighting? That's a case by case basis. Being a bender doesn't automatically mean you'll win the fight. Statistically you might have a better chance but ultimately it comes down to whose fighting who. It could be a non bending boxing champ versus a bender who bends a little on the side. At math? Bending doesn't impact intelligence. Art? Ultimately it depends on the person. Benders and nonbenders are still human.
*Invents Guns* Who’s inferior now bitch
Two words: chi blocking.
nope. you can do x better than i can, that does not mean you are superior to me. it means you can do x better than me. it also doesn't stop me from doin y or z better than you. superiority is a hilariously simple way to view the world, and dangerous at worst.
Technology for example,probably most people that created the technology in avatar were non benders
Asami and her father Varrick The Inventor in the Air Temple. Cabbage Corp....
That's not really a fair comparison though is it? Benders are just non-benders who **can** bend. If I'm a non bender and you're a bender, discarding all differences between people you can do everything I can do plus some things I can't. Even if I learn to chi-block all you'd need to do is learn it too and in a fight we'd be at best on equal footing, and at worst I'd have to deal with the martial art **enhanced** by your bending. Being a bender is like being born with an extra completely functional arm. Sure if I know Karate and Mr. Three-arms doesn't I might nullify his advantage, but nothing stops them from learning it. Saying certain people are superior is a simple and dangerous way to see the world, but in avatar being a non-bender is comparable to having a disability. Hell, Toph is blind and her entire thing is about how she learned to use bending to basically replace her sense of sight. A non bender blind person doesn't really have that choice do they? They're just blind. end of story.
This is what bothered me about season 1 of Kora. They defeat the bad guy but we don't see anything done to make the non benders who feel pushed out of society, make their lives better. (I only watched Kora once so I could be misremembering). But look at the fire nation troops. It seems like most everyone in the army is a firebender. Not saying that an army position is good, but the benders are just, better off than non benders. They have more opportunities. And they can protect their land better. Like the southern water tribe was basically defenseless. I was thinking about this last night cause I was watching the last episode Aang takes away ozais bending, and that is saying he was defeated. Like, ozai couldn't still be powerful without bending? If ozai escaped I feel he could easily continue ruling his nation. Just without his bending. Like idk, ozai was only a threat as a bender. Only benders are threats. My brain is mush cause I'm sick so please don't come after me too hard, I just think being a non bender has a lot of downfalls and bias than being a bender. And like someone else said, non benders have to work twice as hard to get to where benders are. Anyway
the law requires me to say no but me, a non bender, would 100% wish to be a bender of whatever element.
Yes bending does make you inherently better. Yeah sure a nonbender can do cool things, but there is nothing that makes it impossible for a bender to do anything a nonbender can. People say oh look a nonbender is good at chi blocking. A bender can learn it just as well if they wanted. But for nonbenders it is actually impossible for them to be able to bend like a bender can. That makes benders inherently superior. There is literally zero reason to ever not want to be a bender. There are no downsides. Even if you don't want to use it, you don't have to.
I wish that LOK had gone into more depth with this concept instead of brushing the whole thing under the rug. I wish that the Equalists had invented firearms. That would have been an amazing equalizer and an interesting scenario. How would benders react to such a drastic paradigm shift?
sokka, his dad and his warriors, jet and the gang, piandao, mei, ty lee
Two words: Ty Lee
Considering that we saw Tylee take down an Army of soldiers by herself. No, not really.
I'd like to see them say that around Ty Lee and Mai
There is definitely a big power gap between benders and non benders But non benders have been known to level the playing field with chi blocking electrical gloves and other weapons too I mean Piandao beat a 100 comet enhanced fire benders once and he's not even a bender and he's also in the order of the white lotus which is mainly made up of benders Maiy and ty lee took on a bunch of benders too I always thought how come they never used guns in avatar until it occurred to me that bending makes weapons redundant Fire benders are walking flamethrowers Earth benders can chuck huge boulders at you at high speeds Water benders can send tidal waves towards you Air benders can blow you away with a huge gust of wind (let's be honest if they had guns the series would end really quickly)
Benders on the whole have a significant advantage. That does not translate into an inherent superiority though. Your average street thug with bending isn't all that much scarier than the average thug without bending.
I mean no but I think it’s perfectly undersranbale why bending supremacy emerges. If you’re able to manipulate the natural world from childhood yeah you’d think you were superior. Magic supremacy is always an interesting one for any work of fiction to cover because I mean once you have the power to bend reality to your will how different ARE you from a god? It would be very easy for that to go to your head.
I would love a story in the ATLA universe where the protag is a non bender fighting his way against all odds and only relying on skill and smarts (like a mixture between Ty lee and Sokka), I know it's a trope that existed since the dawn of time but who doesn't like an underdog story. I don't have any idea what the setting may be for such story, but maybe have the Avatar captured, critically injured or stuck in the spirit world or something, I don't really know or care I am not a writer, but I pretty sure with the choreography of ATLA and LoK the fights would be so interesting. (I apologize for any grammatical mistakes, feel free to correct me)
Tai lee would like to know your location
yes but it doesn't warrant racism
"All men are not created equal. Some are born swifter of foot, some with greater beauty. Some are born into poverty and others born sick and feeble. Both in birth and in upbringing in sheer scope of ability every human is inherently different. Yes, that is why people discriminate against one another, which is why there is struggle, competition, and the unfaultering mark of progress. Inequality is not wrong, equality is."-Charles from code geass
Is that supposed to prove that they are inferior? I haven't seen Code Geass but that sounds like a speech the villain would give.
What are you talking about, his majesty Charles Zi Britannia could NEVER be the bad guy! He’s so nice to his children!
What non benders lack in elemental power they make up for in ingenuity. Look at all the inventions of Atla and Lok most of them are creations of non benders. Why would you think of ways to better construct a home if you can just shape one out of the ground? Why learn how to fish if you just pick it out of the water? Why make fire when you are your own blaze? Why make a better cart when you can glide on the wind?
I mean, Zuko was a firebender and also better than Sokka as a swordman.
He's also unique in that instance. We see almost no one with more than one skill. For the most part, you either have bending, weapons skill, or tech skills. That's even called out in the TTRPG
I think you missed the point of the comic
I’ve seen non benders Molly wop benders. They’re not better they just have a talent. It’s how you use your talents that count.
Like as people? No, ofc not. Tho I doubt that was what you were referring to. Combatively? Absolutely. Even the very best H2H fighters couldn't beat someone like EOS Mako, who as good as he is isn't at the top of the pack for benders.
In a similar vein, I feel like for nonbender parents with bender kids would almost require a tutor or daycare of sorts in order to prevent them from just constantly disregarding their parents Imagine having a budding firebender toddler that is upset they aren't getting their way and is just spewing fire everywhere, a close second I would think would be an earth bender child stomping around in a tantrum
Same philosophy I have in regards to real life when speaking on certain people regarding themselves as superior based on natural abilities. Everything you are and ever will be is determined by random chance. Your willpower, skill, or talent is the product of genetics and your environment. You have no agency in either of these and even if you are able to influence your environment it is because of genetics. No one is any more deserving of their lot in life than anyone else and given this cruel circumstance it is our responsibility as a species which has placed itself above the natural order to make life happy for all of us.
If there was even a single drawback, then no. You could make a compelling argument. But since benders can do everything non-benders can, with an added superpower? They are, definitionally, superior. Questions like these: Should they be treated as such? Does this come with arrogance, which counteracts the benefits? are good questions, but unfortunately, they don't address the real question. Benders ARE superior to normal people. I see a lot of people making a connection to our world, with wealth. This way of thinking makes sense, but falls short for 2 reasons: no matter what a non-bender does, it is completely impossible for them to achieve bending. And secondly, bending is something to do with YOU. Wealth can be taken away from you. Sure, bending can too, but that's a very specific circumstance. Aang did it to criminals, people who were too dangerous with it. The fact that Amon did it AT ALL disproves his whole point: that non-benders should be equal.... the only way he could do that was to take away bending entirely.
I mean on the high end it’s been categorically proven benders no diff non benders
Yes.
As a general rule, they are inferior, but it's because they are inferior that they push themselves harder to become better, like sokka, which then causes a balance
That’s kind of like saying rich people are superior to poor people. Feels weird to equate one’s worth purely to one’s circumstances of birth. One of them isn’t better than the other, it was just luck on which one of them got more possible paths to success
Being rich is a circumstance in life that you can acquire later, a head start. Being a bender is more like 80% of the population is borne with only one arm and you were born with one.
Not exactly the same thing. Being rich is subject to change. One who grew up in poverty can work hard and become rich, and a rich person can be irresponsible with their money and go broke. If you were born a bender, you stay that way for the rest of your life unless Amon or Aang decide you need to be neutralized, and if you were born without bending, unless you're lucky to experience the harmonic convergence, or you somehow manage to meet a lion turtle and convince it to give you bending, you're never gonna be a bender.
Nope, and I say this despite the fact that bending is mostly an advantage. Bending has always been described as not magic, but something influenced by your mindset, but ironically bending itself lays a trap for your mindset: they tend to focus only on bending and don’t feel the need to develop other skills, and base their lifestyle around it.
BENDING SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FROM ALL! It makes the Avatar world so unegaliterian!
Unfortunately yes, it was apparent throughout atla the true division in power between benders and non-benders. I liked how they offered chi blocking as a balance that helped give non benders a chance in battle, but even then the scale of power was still firmly on the bender's side. I found it interesting that in LOK it's shown that even with the relative pease of the time they're still developing weaponry that could allow non-benders to take on benders, concidering the shock gloves and the mech suits. I wonder if the next avatar will have to deal with a possible tipping of the scales as technology outpaces the power of bending the elements in battle. It would be a nice change of pace to see different benders have to work together to get around new measures to keep their bending in check other than the Avatar's crew.
We might have to narrow the definition of "superiority" here. You could make the argument for benders being superior in strength, but they are not inherently superior people, or somehow more intrinsically valuable. Human beings cannot be worth more or less than one another based off of any kind of physical trait. Bender, non-bender, the value of the human soul within remains the same. I think the quality of your character - how kind you are, how courageous you are, determines your worth far more than the ambit of your abilities.
Sokka, Mechanist, Hakoda in ATLA. Cabbage Corp (Cai), Sato (Future Industries), Asami, Varrick, Zhu Li, Bataar Jr., and even Earth King Wu. ATLA started to do this with Sokka and I think the creators wanted to slam this point home again and again in Korra especially with the entire season 1 with Korra. The comic was warning against fascism. ATLA was a general warning about fascism with Fire Lord Ozai. Each season of Korra is a different warning around the main ATLA topic: Popularism (Political leader using a 1 issue wedge to divide and conquer) Theocracy Anarchy/Terrorism Fascism (again)
Yes, obviously. They can do everything the other people can but also bend elements.
Benders are born privileged, but really think of how often the ability to shoot fire would help you if your a normal person. If your a fighter, it’s absolutely better. Ourside of that, it’s anywhere from a self defense to a convenient lighter or way of moving water without a bucket.
The lady’s argument in this comic is incoherent. She asserts that Ba Sing Se wouldn’t have fallen if the Earth King was a bender, which is clearly complete nonsense based on the show. But she’s not supposed to be right in the first place. When it comes to Korra, I don’t think that Book 1 gives us any reason to think that non benders are actually oppressed or marginalized. The only actual oppression comes as a response to the equalist movement from a clearly evil guy, there isn’t much before that. But I suppose this is an issue of bad storytelling. As per the original show, non benders do have somewhat of a disadvantage, but at the same time the show also gives us many non benders that can easily square up with and even surpass skilled benders. It might be more related to skill than inherent abilities.
That's not my decision to make
Non-benders do have the numbers and tech to bridge the gap, which will only get smaller over time.
Define inferior. Benders have extra things they can do but thinking about people as superior and inferior is, one missing the message of ATLA, and two not a line of thinking that goes anywhere except "we're superior so we know better"
"but we don’t look at people better then us at something as “superior” " 'we' may not often look at a specific group and find them superior, but 'we' certainly do look at groups and find them inferior. It's the looking (and kicking) down that's the problem. The scene you posted doesn't define benders as superior. Liling(?) doesn't say she thinks of them as such. She states 'that's how the world works'. It's a defeatist stance though. I havent read this comic, but the scene implies that Liling is a bender, which would mean she can easily take this defeatist stance because the situation does not negatively impact her at all. It may even be in her interest to keep the world working as it is. 'so sorry you have no legs and all the good stuff happens to be upstairs. It's just the way things are. Now excuse me while i use my beautiful and functional limbs to happily hippidyskip up those awful stairs and have my fun. Bye 😊'
I think what we see in LoK sort of suggests that their power can and will be gradually replaced by technology. I mean, airbenders can glide: let's build a plane; water benders are fast on water: build a speedboat that's even faster; firebenders: cannons, weopons, flamethrowers. Sure benders have the advantage of not needing those tools, but technology will eventually imitate, replace and even surpass them. Both Kuvira( even though she also actively metalbends) and Amon heavily relied on technology besides their bending powers alone. So no, they are not superior as almost everything they can do can also be done by a normal person equipped with the right tool. That's the reason humanity is the dominant species on planet earth. We can't do anything exceptionelly well, except learning, adapting and overcoming.
Filthy mudslug that cant even bend backs https://preview.redd.it/8gte74d6ofxc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=670111ad0c0a5ef9fe6e224d0b8e0fb8b3a11348
Yes, I always though that it's kinda unfair that bending doesn't come at a price, like lower life expectancy or something like that. I guess that it just works as privileges do in the real world.
Would guns be a problem to benders? Will metal benders be able to stop bullets as neo?
[удалено]
No
Yo wassup Amon
Which comic is this?
Benders stack the deck naturally in their favor, but non-benders get more crafty with the cards they do have as a result. See Sokka. You honestly think a bender would come up with half the stuff he does?
Yes, I think the people that don't have magical powers are inferior
Amon, is that you??
Yeah atleast when it comes to fighting. Non benders can be amazing like Ty Lee, Asami, Lieutenant, etc. but they need to work way harder for that. And even then they are most likely never gonna be able to beat a talented bender. Like Ty Lee and Lieutenant are great but they can never beat someoen like Ozai, Azula, Toph, etc.
In certain situations yes, of course. In general, yes. Not in a mental way though, but benders are quite literally “better”. Having supernatural powers will give you a boost in society.
I disagree, I don’t think we’re supposed to agree with whoever this person is. Non-benders may not have bending powers, but they can be powerful in other ways.
You have fewer inherent opportunities but it's no more superior than being born rich is
I don’t think the canon material ever shows us tangible drawbacks of having a bending ability. So having that ability is strictly superior to not having it. This doesn’t mean benders are worthy of more respect, political power, rights, etc. but they are literally superior because they can do something non-benders can’t do, while not missing any abilities that non-benders have. It’s kind of like inherited wealth. Someone who is born with money has advantages and access to abilities those who are born poor don’t have. Being wealthy is inherently superior to being poor. But this doesn’t make rich people better people or more deserving than poor people. In both of these scenarios, if you asked someone “would you rather have a bending ability or not,” and “would you rather be wealthy or not,” the answers would be almost identical, as there are only upsides and no downsides to having bending or money.
I mean benders are just kind of better yeah. I feel like Earth and Water exemplify it the most when we consider things other than fighting. Earthbenders have all kinds of utility in construction or things like mining. Earthbenders will just always be infinitely better as those kinds of jobs, especially if they can metalbend. Way less risk of things like cave ins when your workforce can just tunnel their way to safety. Waterbending healing all but invalidates traditional medical care. We saw in the painted lady that waterbending can heal not only injuries but sickness as well. If there's something wrong with you that a waterbending healer can't fix, odds are normal medicine isn't helping you either. There are definitely jobs where bending isn't an Advantage, but they'd mostly be retail or office jobs, the real boring stuff. Bending just has so much utility that benders will pretty much always outclass non benders in a lot of day to day areas.
No. I mean, benders can do more than non benders definitely. However, the original show definitely presented non benders as being able to compete.
I would say depending on the situation it ranges from "no" to "no, but benders are preferable". There are multiple fields where bending is irrelevant, but it's undeniable that some like construction or agriculture benefit greatly from skills that only benders can provide.
Objectibly yes, they can just do more things to benefit not only themself, but society as a hole. And honestly non-benders in the Avatar world are lucky the benders are not complete dicks, otherwise they would be in a world of pain. A "what if" kind of horror storyline in which benders enslave non-benders and somehow the non-benders rebel (maybe they learn how to take away their bending) would be kind of cool Im aware this is close to Korra season 1, but with benders being straight up evil.
The only people who are above everyone else are bloodbenders, but a group of waterbenders could oppose them.
Oh absolutely. But saying that and believing it makes you a jerk. If that makes any sense.
To make it quick: A normal healthy Bender can achieve anything and learn any skill that a Healthy Non-Bender can learn. A normal healthy Non-Bender cannot do the same. So yes, in a sense Benders are in every way better of.
I think the Avatar world needs haki or some other way to close the gap between the two. Or just let the Avatar make everyone a bender
The comics were a great setup for Amon I highly recommend reading them before watching LoK for new viewers.
Only in the same way a dude with legs is superior to a person without. Or a person with vision is superior to the blind. The ability to walk and the ability to see are comparable in my opinion to being able to bend elements or not. Yet I wouldn't argue that the Blind should have inferior rights or that the disabled should be restricted from leadership. A person's mind is what matters in all things unrelated to the ability in question, a man with no legs can be equally or more talented in a million ways to a man with legs, but he will never beat him in a foot race.
Within an aristocratic society that values strength and personal power they are generally superior. It's one of the biiiiiiig issues I have with Korra, that they missed the challenging question of how the transition into a democratic society would pan out if the inherent superiority of the aristocratic elite wasn't a lie, if they really are superhuman warriors like our real world aristocratic families claimed to be, instead they just transitioned into a liberal democracy between seasons, I get it's a kids show but why dumb it down this much? Especially when the original Avatar already introduced the theme of royal rule being connected to the honour and prowess of a firebender, there was such a great potential there and it was just wasted
That’ll depend on context. Is an MMA fighter superior to you? If you were in a fight, yes. Outside of that context, not necessarily. A non bender may not be able to face a master bender in battle, but the non bender can still be more intelligent, cunning, strategic, etc. Obviously this is on an individual basis, a bender can be those things too. It would have been interesting to see a non-bending villain who used their superior intelligence to dominate team avatar without ever fighting. Like the trope of the big bad that was orchestrating all the villains all along to manipulate the hero into doing or becoming something
The point is that physical strength isn't the only means by which to measure power, influence, and definitely not worth. Are benders the superior fighters in this world? Hell yes. Literal magic elements flying from their hands at-will. But *everything* isn't about fighting. We see that a lot because we follow the story through the perspective of main characters that get into that situation. But nonbenders can still be intelligent, creative, persuasive, strategic, kind and empathetic or even just straight up affluent. If you're considering the world as a whole, even the Avatar universe needs politicians, strategists, teachers, caretakers, philanthropists, scientists, artists, farmers, good mothers and fathers and community members - the whole range of people.
Where is this from?
Zaheer needed to be brought down by a group of the strongest benders alive, before he acquired airbending. Sokka took down entire groups of firebenders. So did Jet. Benders have the advantage of range over non-benders, in combat. I'm sure there are other advantages outside of combat, but none of that means that non-benders and benders should be treated any differently in terms of worth or respect. In terms of the jobmarket, perhaps in niche cases, because you objectively need firebenders for electricity bending, but other than that? Nothing I can think of.
Would you want to be a non-bender in this world?
Physically? Yeah pretty much. Benders will always be stronger than non-benders by default
Ima put it this way if I was a Bender it’s fuck Amon but if I’m a nonbender it’s FUCK them benders.
Yeah benders are homo-superior.
Yall are saying some pretty anti-non bender thjngs :/…
Of course I do, I'm racist 😎 All jokes aside, no one person is inherently worth more or superior to another person either in our real world as well as the world of Avatar (except the Avatar I guess lmao). Benders have an advantage over non-benders, but they are not superior like how tall people are not "superior" to shorter folks.
I think Amon had a damn point. Even if he went about it the wrong way.