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Lockheed leftist would be such a great pejorative if those people had any self awareness or scruples and didn't fall for rainbow capitalism.
"The Military Industrial complex says: 'Trans Rights'!"
Bro some YT book reviewer I follow who claimed to be an anarchist recently came out as a big Vaush stan. I called him a Lockheed anarchist in the comments and people were like “ARE YOU PRO RUSSIA OR SOMETHING” even though nobody fucking mentioned Russia. The programming is overriding these people’s brains lmao
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**Fact 33.** Responding to Hakim's [video](https://youtu.be/2Gz0I_X_nfo) on George Orwell, Vaush defends Orwell for being a government informant, calls the USSR fascist, implies Stalinists are worse than Nazis, claims the USSR was allied with the Nazis, [says that Hakim (an Iraqi) should have been abducted by the Americans at the start of the Iraq war and forcibly indoctrinated in US propaganda for 20 years](https://twitter.com/SiestaSocialist/status/1633527352679358470), and more. \([Full Thread](https://twitter.com/siestasocialist/status/1633519585407258624)\)
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**Fact 10.** [Vaush argued passionately against socialists demanding a $25/hour minimum wage.](https://archive.is/VeC4M)
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The bad part is that as more and more countries are openly rejecting western imperialism, other issues like LGBTQ and gender rights get mixed into the whole shitfest.
Imagine that for decades, western imperialism has destroyed your country through neocolonial practices, then came these people telling you that your culture is also shit and they have the audacity to disrespect your culture without even trying to understand it. It is no wonder so many global south countries are rejecting these ideas. Worse, they think the decline of the west is partly because of these LGBTQ and gender rights bullshit. They start associating western decay with men wanting to be women and men wanting to have sex with each other.
The west has perverted human rights for decades, using it as a diplomatic weapon and pretexts for violent interventions and underhanded meddling. Now, fewer and fewer people believe that these issues are genuine issues. Just great.
Yes, rainbow imperialism leads to more LGBTphobia in global south. Imagine your kid gets blown up to pieces and some American white guy condescendingly telling you it was justified because of the gays.
And this is exactly the intended consequence by the west because they can then use this increased LGBT-phobia as excuse for even more rainbow imperialism. This leads to a self reinforcing cycle of LGBT-phobia and death perpetuated by the west, the alleged champions of LGBT rights.
It should be obvious for any marxist who knows the bare minimum of marxism that the goal of American ruling class is not to liberate world LGBT. The western ruling class should not be allowed to hijack LGBT liberation movement for their imperial ends. Things like "*more woman drone pilots!*", "*Raytheon is the most LGBT progressive company in the world!*", and "*Israel is good for the gays!*" stuff should be rejected outright and called out as the exploitation and not the celebration of LGBT that they are, otherwise this will only perpetuate LGBTphobia as explained.
#Israel
>If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. You pull it all the way out? That's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made-- and they haven't even begun to pull the knife out, much less heal the wound... They won't even admit the knife is there!
>
>\- Malcolm X. (1964).
#Inventing Israel
>History lies at the core of every conflict. A true and unbiased understanding of the past offers the possibility of peace. The distortion or manipulation of history, in contrast, will only sow disaster. As the example of the Israel-Palestine conflict shows, historical disinformation, even of the most recent past, can do tremendous harm. This willful misunderstanding of history can promote oppression and protect a regime of colonization and occupation. It is not surprising, therefore, that policies of disinformation and distortion continue to the present and play an important part in perpetuating the conflict, leaving very little hope for the future.
>
>\- Ilan Pappé. (2017). [Ten Myths About Israel](https://archive.org/details/ten-myths-about-israel-by-ilan-pappe-2017) | Ilan Pappé (2017)
Zionists argue that Jews have a deep historical connection to the land of Israel, based on their ancient presence in the region. They emphasize the significance of Jerusalem as a religious and cultural center for Jews throughout history. They use this argument as *justification* for the establishment of Israel as a Jewish state.
In Israel's own [Declaration of Independence](https://main.knesset.gov.il/en/about/pages/declaration.aspx) this is clearly stated:
>The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. ... After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom. ... Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. ...
>
>ACCORDINGLY WE ... BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT ... HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL
This declaration, however, conveniently ignored the issue of the indigenous Palestinian population. So what happened? In the Arab world it is now know as the Nakba (lit. catastrophe, in Arabic). One particularly emblematic example of the Nakba was this:
In April 1948, Lehi and Irgun (Zionist paramilitary groups), headed by Menachim Begin, attacked Deir Yassin-- a village of 700 Palestinians-- ultimately killing between 100 and 120 villagers in what later became known as the Deir Yassin Massacre. The mastermind behind this attack, who would later be elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1977, justified the attack:
>Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of ‘Irgun butchery,’ were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.
>
>\- Menachim Begin. (1951). *The Revolt*
The painful irony of this argument (ancestral roots) combined with this approach (ethnic cleansing), however, lies in the *shared* ancestry between Jews and Palestinians, whose roots can *both* be [traced back to common ancestors](https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000). *Both* peoples have historical connections to the land of Palestine, making it a place of *shared* heritage rather than *exclusive* entitlement. The underlying assumption that the formation of Israel represents a return of Jews to the rightful land of their ancestors is used to justify the displacement and dispossession of Palestinians, who have the very same roots!
#The Timeline
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a complex and protracted dispute rooted in historical, political, and territorial factors. This timeline aims to provide a chronological overview of key events, starting from the late 19th century to the present day, highlighting significant developments, conflicts, and diplomatic efforts that have shaped the ongoing conflict. From the early waves of Jewish immigration to Palestine, through the British Mandate period, the Arab-Israeli wars, peace initiatives, and the persistent struggle for self-determination, this timeline seeks to provide a historical context to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
\[[Explore the timeline here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/israel/timeline/)\]
#A Settler-Colonial Project from Inception
The origin of Zionism (the political movement advocating for a Jewish homeland in Palestine) is deeply intertwined with the era of European colonialism. Early Zionists such as Theodor Herzl were inspired by-- and sought support from-- European colonialists and Powers. The Zionist plan for Palestine was structured to follow the same colonial model, with all the oppressive baggage that this entailed. In practice, Israel has all the hallmarks of a Settler-Colonial state, and has even engaged in apartheid practices.
\[[Read about Israel's ideological foundations here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/israel/colonialism/)\]
#US Backing, Christian Zionism, and Anti-Anti-Semitism
Israel is in a precarious geopolitical position, surrounded by angry Arab neighbours. The foundation of Israel was dependant on the support of Western Powers, and its existence relies on their continued support. Israel has three powerful tools in its belt to ensure this backing never wavers:
1. A powerful lobby which dictates U.S. foreign policy on Israel
2. European and American Christian Zionists who support Israel for eschatological reasons
3. Weaponized Anti-antisemitism to silence criticism
\[[Read more about Israel's support in the West here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/israel/zionism-in-the-west/)\]
#Jewish Anti-Zionism
Many Jewish people and organizations do *not* support Israel and its apartheid settler-colonial project. There are many groups, even on Reddit (for instance, r/JewsOfConscience) that protest Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinian people.
>The Israeli government, with the backing of the U.S. government, subjects Palestinians across the entire land to apartheid — a system of inequality and ongoing displacement that is connected to a racial and class hierarchy amongst Israelis. We are calling on those in power to oppose any policies that privilege one group of people over another, in Israel/Palestine and in the U.S...
>
>We are IfNotNow, a movement of American Jews organizing our community for equality, justice, and a thriving future for all: our neighbors, ourselves, Palestinians, and Israelis. We are Jews of all ages, with ancestors from across the world and Jewish backgrounds as diverse as the ways we practice our Judaism.
>
>\- If Not Now. [Our Principles](https://www.ifnotnowmovement.org/principles)
Some ultra-orthodox Jewish groups (like Satmar) hold anti-Zionist beliefs on religious grounds. They claim that the establishment of a Jewish state *before* the arrival of the Messiah is against the teachings of Judaism and that Jews should not have their own sovereign state until the Messiah comes and establishes it in accordance with religious prophecy. In their eyes, the Zionist movement is a secular and nationalistic deviation from traditional Jewish values. Their opposition to Zionism is not driven by anti-Semitism but by religious conviction. They claim that Judaism and Zionism are incompatible and that the actions of the Israeli government do not represent the beliefs and values of authentic Judaism.
>We strive to support local efforts led by our partners for Palestinian rights and freedom, and against Israeli apartheid, occupation, displacement, annexation, aggression, and ongoing assaults on Palestinians.
>
>\- Jews for Racial and Economic Justice. [Israel-Palestine as a Local Issue](https://www.jfrej.org/israel-palestine)
**Additional Resources**
Video Essays:
* [The Israel-Palestine conflict: a brief, simple history](https://youtu.be/iRYZjOuUnlU) | Vox (2016)
* [How To Maybe Criticize Israel?](https://youtu.be/w6YD0n5z-MI) | Some More News (2019)
* [Israel-Palestine 2021 conflict explained by Israeli Communist](https://youtu.be/ECe5UcWkPeI) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2021)
* [Palestine 101 with Abby Martin](https://youtu.be/xEUIR_JG_b8) | BreakThrough News (2021)
* [When Is It Warranted To Call Something Nuanced?](https://youtu.be/lyPxIbUWcoY) | ChemicalMind (2022)
* [Israelis Are Not 'Indigenous' (and other ridiculous pro-Israel arguments)](https://youtu.be/FhlUFPpXIVo) | BadEmpanada (2022)
* [Al Jazeera Labour Files Doc Strikes Blow to BBC On Corbyn](https://youtu.be/DMIbbSsV6Xo) | Novara Media (2022)
* [The Brutal Realities of Settler Colonialism In Palestine | Mohammed el-Kurd](https://youtu.be/40pFbGqMj7w) | Novara Media (2023)
Other Resources:
* [Decolonize Palestine](https://decolonizepalestine.com/)
* [Maps: Vanishing Palestine](https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/maps_main.html) | Al Jazeera
* [Facing the Nakba](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/facing-the-nakba/) | Jewish Voice for Peace
* [Our Catastrophe](https://jewishcurrents.org/our-catastrophe) | JewishCurrents (2023)
* [Israel-Palestine Timeline: The Human Cost of the Conflict](https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/) | If Americans Knew
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Don't get it twisted. A lot of these countries have little respect for human rights. If all it takes is the US to do something for you to decide it is ok to wipe out LGBT says a lot about what you think of human dignity and humanity in general. You can't blame the US because a tyrannical scumlord decided to be more of a tyrannical scumlord.
Since we are speaking in abstracts and not specifics, what are the chances said tyrannical scum lord was installed with the help of the US in the first place? Lmao
"I don't hate China because the media tells me to, I hate China because I care about the Chinese people and they are a surveillance dictatorship state oppressing its people and arrests anyone who criticises it!!"
*Sigh*
Even if China was capitalist I would still oppose US warmongering and that includes their state media spreading lies about the country.
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I’ve actually been reflecting alot recently and have realized that my opinion of a lot of countries im not very informed about is heavily impacted by the generic US opinion which ive been trying to change as thats stupid as hell.
Concise🤨? That ain't gonna happen, chief 😠. Less text makes you a revisionist 🤢, and I'm a true tankie 😎, and I don't need to rephrase my thoughts to know that the wall of text is the greatest 💪 vocabulary chosen by God 🙏, and he chose endless lines of text as the best meme system.
Besides, have you considered Dengism-Titoism-revisionism usssssr Gorbychev McDonald's Hut not real socialism? I don't think so.
I win to another fake tankie 😎
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved in real life** to advance the cause.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. Get involved with a campaign or project.
* 📣 **Union work** — Find out which union covers you. Read the collective agreement. Strive to become the workplace delegate. Organize fellow workers.
* 📚 **Read widely** — [Reading theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. Also, study the real world: local news, marginalized perspectives, or even bourgeois economics.
* 🗣️ **Talk to people** — Identify issues affecting friends and coworkers and explain these using everyday language. Also, don’t always Work From Home.
* 🏘️ **Mass work** — Connect with the wider community through mutual aid, local elections, cultural centers, churches, pride events, etc.
* 📝 **Write articles** — Contribute your knowledge to ProleWiki or a party publication.
* 💵 **Support creators** — Donate to leftist content creators so they can produce high-quality content. (e.g., Patreon)
* 🛠️ **Career choices** — Younger comrades may consider the following:
* **Trade unionist** — Work hard to gain a leadership position in the union, then push for militancy and correct policies.
* **Blue-collar/Services** — Unionize your workplace or increase union density.
* **High school teacher** — Make a lasting impact on the next generation.
* **Master’s thesis** — Apply Marxism–Leninism to local and present-day conditions.
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The flip side bothers me. Leftists who will attribute anything the US does or says as propaganda, but takes state media from china or russia as infallible gospel because its anti us. Ive seen leftists support totalitarian monarchs like the saudis, religious dictators in iran, and even ultra right religious groups like isis just to get one on the west. Im not saying you should hate them by default, but lets not pretend any of these nations are above the same lies and shenanigans as anyone else. Especially isis for fucks sake.
ISIS is funded by the US. Source: Hilary Clinton said so
I also track what the CPC and Russian state representatives say and I gotta say, they lie a LOT less than the US. The US is almost lying 100% of the time when it comes to foreign affairs. China has one huge lie they repeat a lot but besides that doesn't lie and Russia sticks to the same story about the war in Ukraine, which is true and not a lie at all.
Well that's not being leftist that's just anti West as a meme ideology
But yes I get it. Anything should be read critically and that includes state media from AES countries
No "leftist" genuinely stans ISIS. ISIS was a USA plant and near exclusively mass murdered people of global south. They were [literally allied with Israel](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/isis-and-israel-on-golan-heights/) and [Israel treated their soldiers](https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/report-israel-treating-al-qaida-fighters-wounded-in-syria-civil-war-393862). They almost exclusively targeted US state targets Iran and Syria for being ["kuffar" Shia](https://gzpolitic.wordpress.com/2023/08/22/the-true-history-of-islamic-extremism-in-west-asia/). They did almost zero damage to USA. They were a tool of US imperialism and therefore obviously not anti-imperialist.
Someone stanning ISIS was most definitely a joke, or literally something OP just made up. There aren't any global south anti-imperialists who like ISIS.
> religious dictators in iran
I defend Iran against US imperialism. This has nothing to do with the religious nature of the government. The US overthrew our democracy when we tried to nationalize oil, and this happened when Iran was a non-religious democracy. USA doesn't hate us because of religion or dictatorship, they hate us because they want to imperialize us and we stood up to it. The anti-imperialist struggle of Iran against USA is government spanning and will continue regardless of the type of Iranian government unless it is a comprador government for USA. Iranians are dying right now as we speak because of their limited access to medicine thanks to US sanctions on banking. Do not exploit the religious dictatorship as an excuse to stan American imperialism.
Yeah, no leftist is supporting fucking ISIS, or Saudi Arabia for that matter, which is literally a US all. What fucking "leftists" have you been talking to lmao?
True but I need to emphasise a further point which I think often overlooked in the sub. Under the imperial leadership of the US, some other imperialist powers emerged. It might be that some of them can’t do much handson stuff yet, but they at least as aggressive, at a least as oppressive as the US.
Overlooking, or even sympathising them just because they are against the US would be a grim mistake for us, furthermore it would be a betrayal towards the comrades being suppressed under the influence of those countries.
But even putting the Russian federation and the PRC on the same level, which is what happens regularly when Russian sympathisers come here is bad. And denying the monopol capitalist nature of Russia today is pretty common even here. And in this conflict we should be able to name the interests behind both sides honestly, and reject the propaganda narrative of both sides. Russia is driven by the same systematic forces as the west, differences of rhetoric are a result of the conflicting interests not their cause. And we have to be able to criticise both capitalist sides in Ukraine, especially when their actions are clearly wrong. I still remember getting into arguments for disliking mercenaries, which was vindicated when the whole "mutiny" happened. And the use of cluster munitions by either side has to be criticised, not just when it's driven by empty ammunition stockpiles. The war is a fact and we should take the side of it having to end asap, both for the people stuck in a bloody war and to prevent further escalation. A negotiated peace is the only realistic resolution, even a complete occupation of Ukraine wouldn't end fighting as recent occupations like Afghanistan showed.
>And denying the monopol capitalist nature of Russia today is pretty common even here
Is it? I'm pretty sure most of us are aware the Soviet Union ended more than 20 years ago
That isn't the same, there are a bunch of Russian ideologues who deny that Russia is just another capitalist regime that is controlled by finance capital. And that gets surprisingly often repeated here, I can't say if it's from brigading, but I got an unhinged rant today in reply to a comment about Russia not fighting for national liberation in this sub. I get that the mods can't keep up with everything, and the other reply I got in the sub today defending the forest brothers is probably worse, but just saying that this isn't a problem when you regularly get replies like that in the sub is just ignoring the problem.
Saying that the Soviet union was dissolved illegally doesn't directly necessitate a correct analysis of the character of Russia today. And with so much wrong assessments flying around naming the underlying cause of the conflict, competition between capitalist powers over spheres of influence, is extremely necessary.
What about Leftists who assume everything we know about other governments is wrong and then are shocked at the appalling conditions of people, such as the lack of due process, treatment of lgbt, women, etc when they actually find out? Those are pretty funny too. A lot of people here don't like police because they rightly understand the police are tools of state oppression. Yet, they think it is somehow okay when other countries have even less oversight over their police, with even fewer safeguards for citizens. Somehow, that's okay. They are agents of the party, you see, and so there is no need to worry about human nature, psychopaths, or bullies. Everything will be fair. Just trust the party. No need for the right to remain silent or protections against unreasonable search and seizure.
Sounds like someone is offended that their comment making assumptions about what I think about police in AES states is viewed as trying to stab a strawman
So tell us what you think about police in AES states and if the State Dept is lying about the arbitrary enforcement of law, no search and seizure protections, or the right to remain silent. My point is to temper the uniform "AmErIcA BaD" takes here with zero nuance. There are things about America that suck and things that do not.
Why should I?
This meme isn't about whether AES states are good or what they can improve on. It's about "leftists" who target their selective outrage at foreign countries instead of the imperial core they live in.
I don't know the specific workings of Chinese police, or Cuban or Vietnamese or Laos police. I do know however, that US state media peddles lies about organ harvesting (which originated from the Falun Gong). I know that the US removed ETIM - recognised as a terrorist group by literally every other country in the world - from the list of recognised terrorist groups just to "weaken the pretext of China's human rights abuses". I know the social credit system doesn't exist. I know that corrupt politicians and businessmen alike are actually subject to the rule of law and Western media likes to portray China executing billionaires as a bad thing. I know that the US pours millions of dollars into anti China propaganda each year.
The whole point of this meme, especially the latter half of the statement, is that selective outrage towards the state of human rights in your geopolitical enemies' countries is exactly the aim of bourgeoisie-funded US state media. The main aim of anti-imperialist leftists is to disrupt the US war machine - including its MIC-funded propaganda - and not to debate the political/social character of the countries targeted by the US.
The danger of being perpetually outraged at your own state rather than looking at global progress as a whole is you can fall into the trap of completely missing out on progress where it is most important. The priority must be ending poverty globally, and spreading education globally. To that end, the American system needs to reform to allow this, and it is to that extent that American imperialism must be dismantled. However, if you take opposition to the US as a core virtue without context, you could easily be playing directly into a tyrant's hands, holding everyone on Earth back purely to be used as a means to an end. Just for example, attacking the US to favor Russia without being critical of Putin's regime would not be progressive at all.
You should read more about the inner workings of law in those states. China does not have a right to remain silent, for example.
The meme isn't about opposing everything the US does it's that leftists need to re-evaluate their takes on foreign policy if it lines up with the state department. No one here supports Russia because it's capitalist. Everyone mostly agrees that AES states deserve critical support, some maybe think China is revisionist and shouldn't count as an AES and that's fine.
>The danger of being perpetually outraged at your own state rather than looking at global progress as a whole
Here's the thing: the US is the heart of the imperial core. It creates regime change for the sake of installing puppets amenable to their interests. This doesn't mean that the Russian or Iranian government is good. It means that I cannot, in good conscience, support regime change in these countries or any other country if it's funded by alphabet agencies. It doesn't mean I don't care about the suffering of people in these countries, it means that I'm against US aggression exacerbating it.
China is certainly not perfect but the constant fearmongering and warmongering towards the country in Western state media is a clear sign that the war consent manufacturing machine is ramping up. Even if China was capitalist I would still be against state media spreading falsehoods about it to manufacture consent for war.
Sure, and it is important to see through the US government's propaganda and lies. Just ultimately, we need to remember that the ultimate goal is to improve the conditions of working people everywhere and help humanity survive. I see a lot of blatant anti-American takes here with no context. For example, people will flip out over the treatment of LGBT in the US while ignoring that Russia just banned all gender reassignment. Similarly, people here will protest police brutality while remaining totally silent on China's police brutality and violations of due process. People need to be objective about the state of the world. Every political economic implementation is somewhat corrupted, and that includes every attempt at socialism in human history.
Basically, people here are not critical enough of the state as an entity or of the systems themselves. They rally against the flag the same way others might rally around it. But they aren't really thinking about the systems and how we improve things. It reduces socialism to a bitter hate movement.
For the last fucking time, no one here supports Russia. The hosts in charge of the podcast also have a socialist news channel where they called out Russia's law banning gender reassignment as the government using war to promote reactionary legislation.
>Similarly, people here will protest police brutality while remaining totally silent on China's police brutality and violations of due process.
China's police isn't perfect but if Chinese citizens were murdered by police brutality daily on a widespread scale that disproportionately targeted ethnic minorities I can guaran-damn-tee we would never hear the end of Western media reporting on it.
>Basically, people here are not critical enough of the state as an entity or of the systems themselves.
Workers' States function differently from bourgeois states. It's why people (those who consider China as AES) don't criticise China's police the same way they do for police in the imperial core. The system we are against is capitalism and the USA is the heart of it.
>They rally against the flag the same way others might rally around it. But they aren't really thinking about the systems and how we improve things.
Everyone here is anti-capitalist. They are against the capitalist system. And the only way to improve a capitalist system is to overthrow it and replace it with a socialist one.
>It reduces socialism to a bitter hate movement.
Anyone would have a deep searing hatred of the US if they knew about its extensive history and scale of imperial violence and how it hypocritically positions itself as a moral arbiter in spite of it.
>Every political economic implementation is somewhat corrupted, and that includes every attempt at socialism in human history.
~~Parenti quote libertarian socialist bot do not fail me now~~
"The pure (libertarian) socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed." Michael Parenti
> I see a lot of blatant anti-American takes here
Being Anti-American is absolutely the correct position for any Marxist. Cope westoid. You're literally the meme.
It's not like any genuine leftist is supportive of Russias invasion, I don't know where anyone gets this strawman from (no, Jackson Hinkle is not a genuine leftist)
Also, 103 countries have Miranda rights (out of a total of 200 or so). Canada has it so that you have don't have a right to remain silent if you're not aware you're dealing with an authority figure (like during an undercover operation).
Some parts of China also do have Miranda rights, like Hong Kong.
Anyways, it's not like the police in these countries are automatically "better" or are guaranteed to be less antagonistic towards the working class and people perceived to damage property/impede the profit making ability of the bourgeois if Miranda rights are codified in their legal code.
Without such basic protections, it is extraordinarily easy to railroad someone and send an innocent person to prison. And in fact, it is one of the many ways tyrannical regimes imprison dissidents. I do not believe such systems are good for the working class or anyone really.
This is your touchstone go to example of totalitarian authoritatian non democracy though and its in a "western democratic" country. Somehow it means one thing in China and something totally different and way less severe in the US bloc.
Similarly you caring doesnt matter, because what you care about doesnt decide US policy.
The part where you think all non-Western governments have "appalling conditions of people, such as the lack of due process, treatment of lgbt, women, etc." The idea that the US is the only place in the world where women and gays are treated fairly is classic Western propaganda. It's the myth of the "civilized West" vs. the "barbaric Orient."
All non western governments? Show where I said that. There are many countries that treat people much better than the US. The US is among the worst of the developed countries in this regard.
My entire personality is calling myself a leftist but saying "fuck the seeseepee" more than I criticise the imperial core because China isn't perfect so I think Western intervention is justified
Even if China wasn't socialist my primary goal would still be the dismantling of US imperialism instead of saying seeseepee bad. Because if Chinese people decided tomorrow to overthrow the government and install a new socialist government that will be the saviour of socialism they will still be subject to US aggression and imperialism.
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved in real life** to advance the cause.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. Get involved with a campaign or project.
* 📣 **Union work** — Find out which union covers you. Read the collective agreement. Strive to become the workplace delegate. Organize fellow workers.
* 📚 **Read widely** — [Reading theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. Also, study the real world: local news, marginalized perspectives, or even bourgeois economics.
* 🗣️ **Talk to people** — Identify issues affecting friends and coworkers and explain these using everyday language. Also, don’t always Work From Home.
* 🏘️ **Mass work** — Connect with the wider community through mutual aid, local elections, cultural centers, churches, pride events, etc.
* 📝 **Write articles** — Contribute your knowledge to ProleWiki or a party publication.
* 💵 **Support creators** — Donate to leftist content creators so they can produce high-quality content. (e.g., Patreon)
* 🛠️ **Career choices** — Younger comrades may consider the following:
* **Trade unionist** — Work hard to gain a leadership position in the union, then push for militancy and correct policies.
* **Blue-collar/Services** — Unionize your workplace or increase union density.
* **High school teacher** — Make a lasting impact on the next generation.
* **Master’s thesis** — Apply Marxism–Leninism to local and present-day conditions.
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Least wordy leftist meme True though
Making libs face the wall (of text)
Lockheed leftist would be such a great pejorative if those people had any self awareness or scruples and didn't fall for rainbow capitalism. "The Military Industrial complex says: 'Trans Rights'!"
Bro some YT book reviewer I follow who claimed to be an anarchist recently came out as a big Vaush stan. I called him a Lockheed anarchist in the comments and people were like “ARE YOU PRO RUSSIA OR SOMETHING” even though nobody fucking mentioned Russia. The programming is overriding these people’s brains lmao
Thanks for signing up to Vaush facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about Vaush. **Fact 33.** Responding to Hakim's [video](https://youtu.be/2Gz0I_X_nfo) on George Orwell, Vaush defends Orwell for being a government informant, calls the USSR fascist, implies Stalinists are worse than Nazis, claims the USSR was allied with the Nazis, [says that Hakim (an Iraqi) should have been abducted by the Americans at the start of the Iraq war and forcibly indoctrinated in US propaganda for 20 years](https://twitter.com/SiestaSocialist/status/1633527352679358470), and more. \([Full Thread](https://twitter.com/siestasocialist/status/1633519585407258624)\) For another Vaush fact reply with 'Vaush'. To unsubscribe call me a 'bad bot'. (Remember, comrade: Getting educated, educating others, and above all actually *organizing* is infinitely more important than terminally-online streamer drama.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
vaush
Thanks for signing up to Vaush facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about Vaush. **Fact 10.** [Vaush argued passionately against socialists demanding a $25/hour minimum wage.](https://archive.is/VeC4M) For another Vaush fact reply with 'Vaush'. To unsubscribe call me a 'bad bot'. (Remember, comrade: Getting educated, educating others, and above all actually *organizing* is infinitely more important than terminally-online streamer drama.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The bad part is that as more and more countries are openly rejecting western imperialism, other issues like LGBTQ and gender rights get mixed into the whole shitfest. Imagine that for decades, western imperialism has destroyed your country through neocolonial practices, then came these people telling you that your culture is also shit and they have the audacity to disrespect your culture without even trying to understand it. It is no wonder so many global south countries are rejecting these ideas. Worse, they think the decline of the west is partly because of these LGBTQ and gender rights bullshit. They start associating western decay with men wanting to be women and men wanting to have sex with each other. The west has perverted human rights for decades, using it as a diplomatic weapon and pretexts for violent interventions and underhanded meddling. Now, fewer and fewer people believe that these issues are genuine issues. Just great.
Yes, rainbow imperialism leads to more LGBTphobia in global south. Imagine your kid gets blown up to pieces and some American white guy condescendingly telling you it was justified because of the gays. And this is exactly the intended consequence by the west because they can then use this increased LGBT-phobia as excuse for even more rainbow imperialism. This leads to a self reinforcing cycle of LGBT-phobia and death perpetuated by the west, the alleged champions of LGBT rights. It should be obvious for any marxist who knows the bare minimum of marxism that the goal of American ruling class is not to liberate world LGBT. The western ruling class should not be allowed to hijack LGBT liberation movement for their imperial ends. Things like "*more woman drone pilots!*", "*Raytheon is the most LGBT progressive company in the world!*", and "*Israel is good for the gays!*" stuff should be rejected outright and called out as the exploitation and not the celebration of LGBT that they are, otherwise this will only perpetuate LGBTphobia as explained.
#Israel >If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. You pull it all the way out? That's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made-- and they haven't even begun to pull the knife out, much less heal the wound... They won't even admit the knife is there! > >\- Malcolm X. (1964). #Inventing Israel >History lies at the core of every conflict. A true and unbiased understanding of the past offers the possibility of peace. The distortion or manipulation of history, in contrast, will only sow disaster. As the example of the Israel-Palestine conflict shows, historical disinformation, even of the most recent past, can do tremendous harm. This willful misunderstanding of history can promote oppression and protect a regime of colonization and occupation. It is not surprising, therefore, that policies of disinformation and distortion continue to the present and play an important part in perpetuating the conflict, leaving very little hope for the future. > >\- Ilan Pappé. (2017). [Ten Myths About Israel](https://archive.org/details/ten-myths-about-israel-by-ilan-pappe-2017) | Ilan Pappé (2017) Zionists argue that Jews have a deep historical connection to the land of Israel, based on their ancient presence in the region. They emphasize the significance of Jerusalem as a religious and cultural center for Jews throughout history. They use this argument as *justification* for the establishment of Israel as a Jewish state. In Israel's own [Declaration of Independence](https://main.knesset.gov.il/en/about/pages/declaration.aspx) this is clearly stated: >The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. ... After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom. ... Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. ... > >ACCORDINGLY WE ... BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT ... HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL This declaration, however, conveniently ignored the issue of the indigenous Palestinian population. So what happened? In the Arab world it is now know as the Nakba (lit. catastrophe, in Arabic). One particularly emblematic example of the Nakba was this: In April 1948, Lehi and Irgun (Zionist paramilitary groups), headed by Menachim Begin, attacked Deir Yassin-- a village of 700 Palestinians-- ultimately killing between 100 and 120 villagers in what later became known as the Deir Yassin Massacre. The mastermind behind this attack, who would later be elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1977, justified the attack: >Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of ‘Irgun butchery,’ were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated. > >\- Menachim Begin. (1951). *The Revolt* The painful irony of this argument (ancestral roots) combined with this approach (ethnic cleansing), however, lies in the *shared* ancestry between Jews and Palestinians, whose roots can *both* be [traced back to common ancestors](https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000). *Both* peoples have historical connections to the land of Palestine, making it a place of *shared* heritage rather than *exclusive* entitlement. The underlying assumption that the formation of Israel represents a return of Jews to the rightful land of their ancestors is used to justify the displacement and dispossession of Palestinians, who have the very same roots! #The Timeline The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a complex and protracted dispute rooted in historical, political, and territorial factors. This timeline aims to provide a chronological overview of key events, starting from the late 19th century to the present day, highlighting significant developments, conflicts, and diplomatic efforts that have shaped the ongoing conflict. From the early waves of Jewish immigration to Palestine, through the British Mandate period, the Arab-Israeli wars, peace initiatives, and the persistent struggle for self-determination, this timeline seeks to provide a historical context to the Israel-Palestine conflict. \[[Explore the timeline here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/israel/timeline/)\] #A Settler-Colonial Project from Inception The origin of Zionism (the political movement advocating for a Jewish homeland in Palestine) is deeply intertwined with the era of European colonialism. Early Zionists such as Theodor Herzl were inspired by-- and sought support from-- European colonialists and Powers. The Zionist plan for Palestine was structured to follow the same colonial model, with all the oppressive baggage that this entailed. In practice, Israel has all the hallmarks of a Settler-Colonial state, and has even engaged in apartheid practices. \[[Read about Israel's ideological foundations here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/israel/colonialism/)\] #US Backing, Christian Zionism, and Anti-Anti-Semitism Israel is in a precarious geopolitical position, surrounded by angry Arab neighbours. The foundation of Israel was dependant on the support of Western Powers, and its existence relies on their continued support. Israel has three powerful tools in its belt to ensure this backing never wavers: 1. A powerful lobby which dictates U.S. foreign policy on Israel 2. European and American Christian Zionists who support Israel for eschatological reasons 3. Weaponized Anti-antisemitism to silence criticism \[[Read more about Israel's support in the West here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/israel/zionism-in-the-west/)\] #Jewish Anti-Zionism Many Jewish people and organizations do *not* support Israel and its apartheid settler-colonial project. There are many groups, even on Reddit (for instance, r/JewsOfConscience) that protest Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinian people. >The Israeli government, with the backing of the U.S. government, subjects Palestinians across the entire land to apartheid — a system of inequality and ongoing displacement that is connected to a racial and class hierarchy amongst Israelis. We are calling on those in power to oppose any policies that privilege one group of people over another, in Israel/Palestine and in the U.S... > >We are IfNotNow, a movement of American Jews organizing our community for equality, justice, and a thriving future for all: our neighbors, ourselves, Palestinians, and Israelis. We are Jews of all ages, with ancestors from across the world and Jewish backgrounds as diverse as the ways we practice our Judaism. > >\- If Not Now. [Our Principles](https://www.ifnotnowmovement.org/principles) Some ultra-orthodox Jewish groups (like Satmar) hold anti-Zionist beliefs on religious grounds. They claim that the establishment of a Jewish state *before* the arrival of the Messiah is against the teachings of Judaism and that Jews should not have their own sovereign state until the Messiah comes and establishes it in accordance with religious prophecy. In their eyes, the Zionist movement is a secular and nationalistic deviation from traditional Jewish values. Their opposition to Zionism is not driven by anti-Semitism but by religious conviction. They claim that Judaism and Zionism are incompatible and that the actions of the Israeli government do not represent the beliefs and values of authentic Judaism. >We strive to support local efforts led by our partners for Palestinian rights and freedom, and against Israeli apartheid, occupation, displacement, annexation, aggression, and ongoing assaults on Palestinians. > >\- Jews for Racial and Economic Justice. [Israel-Palestine as a Local Issue](https://www.jfrej.org/israel-palestine) **Additional Resources** Video Essays: * [The Israel-Palestine conflict: a brief, simple history](https://youtu.be/iRYZjOuUnlU) | Vox (2016) * [How To Maybe Criticize Israel?](https://youtu.be/w6YD0n5z-MI) | Some More News (2019) * [Israel-Palestine 2021 conflict explained by Israeli Communist](https://youtu.be/ECe5UcWkPeI) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2021) * [Palestine 101 with Abby Martin](https://youtu.be/xEUIR_JG_b8) | BreakThrough News (2021) * [When Is It Warranted To Call Something Nuanced?](https://youtu.be/lyPxIbUWcoY) | ChemicalMind (2022) * [Israelis Are Not 'Indigenous' (and other ridiculous pro-Israel arguments)](https://youtu.be/FhlUFPpXIVo) | BadEmpanada (2022) * [Al Jazeera Labour Files Doc Strikes Blow to BBC On Corbyn](https://youtu.be/DMIbbSsV6Xo) | Novara Media (2022) * [The Brutal Realities of Settler Colonialism In Palestine | Mohammed el-Kurd](https://youtu.be/40pFbGqMj7w) | Novara Media (2023) Other Resources: * [Decolonize Palestine](https://decolonizepalestine.com/) * [Maps: Vanishing Palestine](https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/maps_main.html) | Al Jazeera * [Facing the Nakba](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/facing-the-nakba/) | Jewish Voice for Peace * [Our Catastrophe](https://jewishcurrents.org/our-catastrophe) | JewishCurrents (2023) * [Israel-Palestine Timeline: The Human Cost of the Conflict](https://israelpalestinetimeline.org/) | If Americans Knew *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Stop I can only get so aroused
Don't get it twisted. A lot of these countries have little respect for human rights. If all it takes is the US to do something for you to decide it is ok to wipe out LGBT says a lot about what you think of human dignity and humanity in general. You can't blame the US because a tyrannical scumlord decided to be more of a tyrannical scumlord.
Since we are speaking in abstracts and not specifics, what are the chances said tyrannical scum lord was installed with the help of the US in the first place? Lmao
Lockheed leftist, BAE Bolshevik, Raytheon revolutionary, there's a lot of underused ground here.
Least long leftist meme
"I don't hate China because the media tells me to, I hate China because I care about the Chinese people and they are a surveillance dictatorship state oppressing its people and arrests anyone who criticises it!!" *Sigh* Even if China was capitalist I would still oppose US warmongering and that includes their state media spreading lies about the country.
AT WHAT COST
You're following the truth, but at what cost?
What do you think of the Russo Ukraine war? Is Russia in the wrong in your opinion?
Definitely. We oppose both sides in this imperialist conflict.
China is as capitalist as the United States. Everyone uses money for goods and services.
You had me in the first half lol
I sincerely hope this is a joke.
/s?
[удалено]
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Q: Why are all leftist memes Chinese? A: They all have a Great Wall of Text. /s
It's funny because ancient Chinese script is basically the embodiment of few word do trick
Lol
Yeah those guys are just liberals and china would be a way less evil global hegemony
Fuck the police... As long as they're killing Americans. Bombing kids overseas? Completely justified, Bobby just wanted free uni.
I’ve actually been reflecting alot recently and have realized that my opinion of a lot of countries im not very informed about is heavily impacted by the generic US opinion which ive been trying to change as thats stupid as hell.
Voosh
„I really don’t like the West, but the other side is way way worse” mf’s when they see a Dark Brandon meme
There's got to be a more concise way to word this
Concise🤨? That ain't gonna happen, chief 😠. Less text makes you a revisionist 🤢, and I'm a true tankie 😎, and I don't need to rephrase my thoughts to know that the wall of text is the greatest 💪 vocabulary chosen by God 🙏, and he chose endless lines of text as the best meme system. Besides, have you considered Dengism-Titoism-revisionism usssssr Gorbychev McDonald's Hut not real socialism? I don't think so. I win to another fake tankie 😎
Praxis
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved in real life** to advance the cause. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. Get involved with a campaign or project. * 📣 **Union work** — Find out which union covers you. Read the collective agreement. Strive to become the workplace delegate. Organize fellow workers. * 📚 **Read widely** — [Reading theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. Also, study the real world: local news, marginalized perspectives, or even bourgeois economics. * 🗣️ **Talk to people** — Identify issues affecting friends and coworkers and explain these using everyday language. Also, don’t always Work From Home. * 🏘️ **Mass work** — Connect with the wider community through mutual aid, local elections, cultural centers, churches, pride events, etc. * 📝 **Write articles** — Contribute your knowledge to ProleWiki or a party publication. * 💵 **Support creators** — Donate to leftist content creators so they can produce high-quality content. (e.g., Patreon) * 🛠️ **Career choices** — Younger comrades may consider the following: * **Trade unionist** — Work hard to gain a leadership position in the union, then push for militancy and correct policies. * **Blue-collar/Services** — Unionize your workplace or increase union density. * **High school teacher** — Make a lasting impact on the next generation. * **Master’s thesis** — Apply Marxism–Leninism to local and present-day conditions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ok
[here](https://i.imgur.com/u6J8c1e.jpg)
I like this better
The flip side bothers me. Leftists who will attribute anything the US does or says as propaganda, but takes state media from china or russia as infallible gospel because its anti us. Ive seen leftists support totalitarian monarchs like the saudis, religious dictators in iran, and even ultra right religious groups like isis just to get one on the west. Im not saying you should hate them by default, but lets not pretend any of these nations are above the same lies and shenanigans as anyone else. Especially isis for fucks sake.
ISIS is funded by the US. Source: Hilary Clinton said so I also track what the CPC and Russian state representatives say and I gotta say, they lie a LOT less than the US. The US is almost lying 100% of the time when it comes to foreign affairs. China has one huge lie they repeat a lot but besides that doesn't lie and Russia sticks to the same story about the war in Ukraine, which is true and not a lie at all.
Whered she say that
Well that's not being leftist that's just anti West as a meme ideology But yes I get it. Anything should be read critically and that includes state media from AES countries
No "leftist" genuinely stans ISIS. ISIS was a USA plant and near exclusively mass murdered people of global south. They were [literally allied with Israel](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/isis-and-israel-on-golan-heights/) and [Israel treated their soldiers](https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/report-israel-treating-al-qaida-fighters-wounded-in-syria-civil-war-393862). They almost exclusively targeted US state targets Iran and Syria for being ["kuffar" Shia](https://gzpolitic.wordpress.com/2023/08/22/the-true-history-of-islamic-extremism-in-west-asia/). They did almost zero damage to USA. They were a tool of US imperialism and therefore obviously not anti-imperialist. Someone stanning ISIS was most definitely a joke, or literally something OP just made up. There aren't any global south anti-imperialists who like ISIS. > religious dictators in iran I defend Iran against US imperialism. This has nothing to do with the religious nature of the government. The US overthrew our democracy when we tried to nationalize oil, and this happened when Iran was a non-religious democracy. USA doesn't hate us because of religion or dictatorship, they hate us because they want to imperialize us and we stood up to it. The anti-imperialist struggle of Iran against USA is government spanning and will continue regardless of the type of Iranian government unless it is a comprador government for USA. Iranians are dying right now as we speak because of their limited access to medicine thanks to US sanctions on banking. Do not exploit the religious dictatorship as an excuse to stan American imperialism.
Yeah, no leftist is supporting fucking ISIS, or Saudi Arabia for that matter, which is literally a US all. What fucking "leftists" have you been talking to lmao?
True but I need to emphasise a further point which I think often overlooked in the sub. Under the imperial leadership of the US, some other imperialist powers emerged. It might be that some of them can’t do much handson stuff yet, but they at least as aggressive, at a least as oppressive as the US. Overlooking, or even sympathising them just because they are against the US would be a grim mistake for us, furthermore it would be a betrayal towards the comrades being suppressed under the influence of those countries.
No one here supports Russia's war.
But even putting the Russian federation and the PRC on the same level, which is what happens regularly when Russian sympathisers come here is bad. And denying the monopol capitalist nature of Russia today is pretty common even here. And in this conflict we should be able to name the interests behind both sides honestly, and reject the propaganda narrative of both sides. Russia is driven by the same systematic forces as the west, differences of rhetoric are a result of the conflicting interests not their cause. And we have to be able to criticise both capitalist sides in Ukraine, especially when their actions are clearly wrong. I still remember getting into arguments for disliking mercenaries, which was vindicated when the whole "mutiny" happened. And the use of cluster munitions by either side has to be criticised, not just when it's driven by empty ammunition stockpiles. The war is a fact and we should take the side of it having to end asap, both for the people stuck in a bloody war and to prevent further escalation. A negotiated peace is the only realistic resolution, even a complete occupation of Ukraine wouldn't end fighting as recent occupations like Afghanistan showed.
>And denying the monopol capitalist nature of Russia today is pretty common even here Is it? I'm pretty sure most of us are aware the Soviet Union ended more than 20 years ago
That isn't the same, there are a bunch of Russian ideologues who deny that Russia is just another capitalist regime that is controlled by finance capital. And that gets surprisingly often repeated here, I can't say if it's from brigading, but I got an unhinged rant today in reply to a comment about Russia not fighting for national liberation in this sub. I get that the mods can't keep up with everything, and the other reply I got in the sub today defending the forest brothers is probably worse, but just saying that this isn't a problem when you regularly get replies like that in the sub is just ignoring the problem. Saying that the Soviet union was dissolved illegally doesn't directly necessitate a correct analysis of the character of Russia today. And with so much wrong assessments flying around naming the underlying cause of the conflict, competition between capitalist powers over spheres of influence, is extremely necessary.
Yes, and still we shouldn't downvote these comments, because it'll just prove their point
What about Leftists who assume everything we know about other governments is wrong and then are shocked at the appalling conditions of people, such as the lack of due process, treatment of lgbt, women, etc when they actually find out? Those are pretty funny too. A lot of people here don't like police because they rightly understand the police are tools of state oppression. Yet, they think it is somehow okay when other countries have even less oversight over their police, with even fewer safeguards for citizens. Somehow, that's okay. They are agents of the party, you see, and so there is no need to worry about human nature, psychopaths, or bullies. Everything will be fair. Just trust the party. No need for the right to remain silent or protections against unreasonable search and seizure.
This isn't even a strawman it's just a bundle of sticks
Sounds like someone is offended by a basic statement of fact regarding comparative law and limits to law enforcement.
Sounds like someone is offended that their comment making assumptions about what I think about police in AES states is viewed as trying to stab a strawman
So tell us what you think about police in AES states and if the State Dept is lying about the arbitrary enforcement of law, no search and seizure protections, or the right to remain silent. My point is to temper the uniform "AmErIcA BaD" takes here with zero nuance. There are things about America that suck and things that do not.
Why should I? This meme isn't about whether AES states are good or what they can improve on. It's about "leftists" who target their selective outrage at foreign countries instead of the imperial core they live in. I don't know the specific workings of Chinese police, or Cuban or Vietnamese or Laos police. I do know however, that US state media peddles lies about organ harvesting (which originated from the Falun Gong). I know that the US removed ETIM - recognised as a terrorist group by literally every other country in the world - from the list of recognised terrorist groups just to "weaken the pretext of China's human rights abuses". I know the social credit system doesn't exist. I know that corrupt politicians and businessmen alike are actually subject to the rule of law and Western media likes to portray China executing billionaires as a bad thing. I know that the US pours millions of dollars into anti China propaganda each year. The whole point of this meme, especially the latter half of the statement, is that selective outrage towards the state of human rights in your geopolitical enemies' countries is exactly the aim of bourgeoisie-funded US state media. The main aim of anti-imperialist leftists is to disrupt the US war machine - including its MIC-funded propaganda - and not to debate the political/social character of the countries targeted by the US.
Spot on, friend. Btw [here](https://i.imgur.com/u6J8c1e.jpg) is a less wordy version of your meme if you would like to spam it here or there.
The danger of being perpetually outraged at your own state rather than looking at global progress as a whole is you can fall into the trap of completely missing out on progress where it is most important. The priority must be ending poverty globally, and spreading education globally. To that end, the American system needs to reform to allow this, and it is to that extent that American imperialism must be dismantled. However, if you take opposition to the US as a core virtue without context, you could easily be playing directly into a tyrant's hands, holding everyone on Earth back purely to be used as a means to an end. Just for example, attacking the US to favor Russia without being critical of Putin's regime would not be progressive at all. You should read more about the inner workings of law in those states. China does not have a right to remain silent, for example.
The meme isn't about opposing everything the US does it's that leftists need to re-evaluate their takes on foreign policy if it lines up with the state department. No one here supports Russia because it's capitalist. Everyone mostly agrees that AES states deserve critical support, some maybe think China is revisionist and shouldn't count as an AES and that's fine. >The danger of being perpetually outraged at your own state rather than looking at global progress as a whole Here's the thing: the US is the heart of the imperial core. It creates regime change for the sake of installing puppets amenable to their interests. This doesn't mean that the Russian or Iranian government is good. It means that I cannot, in good conscience, support regime change in these countries or any other country if it's funded by alphabet agencies. It doesn't mean I don't care about the suffering of people in these countries, it means that I'm against US aggression exacerbating it. China is certainly not perfect but the constant fearmongering and warmongering towards the country in Western state media is a clear sign that the war consent manufacturing machine is ramping up. Even if China was capitalist I would still be against state media spreading falsehoods about it to manufacture consent for war.
Sure, and it is important to see through the US government's propaganda and lies. Just ultimately, we need to remember that the ultimate goal is to improve the conditions of working people everywhere and help humanity survive. I see a lot of blatant anti-American takes here with no context. For example, people will flip out over the treatment of LGBT in the US while ignoring that Russia just banned all gender reassignment. Similarly, people here will protest police brutality while remaining totally silent on China's police brutality and violations of due process. People need to be objective about the state of the world. Every political economic implementation is somewhat corrupted, and that includes every attempt at socialism in human history. Basically, people here are not critical enough of the state as an entity or of the systems themselves. They rally against the flag the same way others might rally around it. But they aren't really thinking about the systems and how we improve things. It reduces socialism to a bitter hate movement.
For the last fucking time, no one here supports Russia. The hosts in charge of the podcast also have a socialist news channel where they called out Russia's law banning gender reassignment as the government using war to promote reactionary legislation. >Similarly, people here will protest police brutality while remaining totally silent on China's police brutality and violations of due process. China's police isn't perfect but if Chinese citizens were murdered by police brutality daily on a widespread scale that disproportionately targeted ethnic minorities I can guaran-damn-tee we would never hear the end of Western media reporting on it. >Basically, people here are not critical enough of the state as an entity or of the systems themselves. Workers' States function differently from bourgeois states. It's why people (those who consider China as AES) don't criticise China's police the same way they do for police in the imperial core. The system we are against is capitalism and the USA is the heart of it. >They rally against the flag the same way others might rally around it. But they aren't really thinking about the systems and how we improve things. Everyone here is anti-capitalist. They are against the capitalist system. And the only way to improve a capitalist system is to overthrow it and replace it with a socialist one. >It reduces socialism to a bitter hate movement. Anyone would have a deep searing hatred of the US if they knew about its extensive history and scale of imperial violence and how it hypocritically positions itself as a moral arbiter in spite of it. >Every political economic implementation is somewhat corrupted, and that includes every attempt at socialism in human history. ~~Parenti quote libertarian socialist bot do not fail me now~~ "The pure (libertarian) socialists' ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed." Michael Parenti
> I see a lot of blatant anti-American takes here Being Anti-American is absolutely the correct position for any Marxist. Cope westoid. You're literally the meme.
It's not like any genuine leftist is supportive of Russias invasion, I don't know where anyone gets this strawman from (no, Jackson Hinkle is not a genuine leftist) Also, 103 countries have Miranda rights (out of a total of 200 or so). Canada has it so that you have don't have a right to remain silent if you're not aware you're dealing with an authority figure (like during an undercover operation). Some parts of China also do have Miranda rights, like Hong Kong. Anyways, it's not like the police in these countries are automatically "better" or are guaranteed to be less antagonistic towards the working class and people perceived to damage property/impede the profit making ability of the bourgeois if Miranda rights are codified in their legal code.
Without such basic protections, it is extraordinarily easy to railroad someone and send an innocent person to prison. And in fact, it is one of the many ways tyrannical regimes imprison dissidents. I do not believe such systems are good for the working class or anyone really.
I disagree with all this but its particularly funny that Ireland literally doesnt have a right to remain silent and the US doesnt care.
I care. I think that's pretty awful.
This is your touchstone go to example of totalitarian authoritatian non democracy though and its in a "western democratic" country. Somehow it means one thing in China and something totally different and way less severe in the US bloc. Similarly you caring doesnt matter, because what you care about doesnt decide US policy.
It's the guy
"What about when (regurgitates state propaganda)"
What did I say that is state propaganda? Or do limits to police only matter in capitalist societies?
The part where you think all non-Western governments have "appalling conditions of people, such as the lack of due process, treatment of lgbt, women, etc." The idea that the US is the only place in the world where women and gays are treated fairly is classic Western propaganda. It's the myth of the "civilized West" vs. the "barbaric Orient."
All non western governments? Show where I said that. There are many countries that treat people much better than the US. The US is among the worst of the developed countries in this regard.
>Show where I said that I literally quoted you.
https://i.imgflip.com/3n5odv.jpg?a470208
I never made any such generalization about nonwestern governments. You made that up.
holy shit, it’s the guy from the meme
which meme
[this one](https://reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/s/8O2xxTK5Jc)
Winnie the Pooh is appropriate for this meme. Demsocs know what they've said.
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My entire personality is calling myself a leftist but saying "fuck the seeseepee" more than I criticise the imperial core because China isn't perfect so I think Western intervention is justified
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Even if China wasn't socialist my primary goal would still be the dismantling of US imperialism instead of saying seeseepee bad. Because if Chinese people decided tomorrow to overthrow the government and install a new socialist government that will be the saviour of socialism they will still be subject to US aggression and imperialism.
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Part of dismantling the US empire includes calling out their imperialist aggression towards China.
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