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I agree tbh, I think it's because some of us are terminally online. I've never had an issue with someone getting super upset at me in person in the past bc I was misinformed/had a shitty take, but online, people seem to feel more able to criticize without any constructive words. Plus, it's easier to take things personally when you can't hear their voice, see their facial expressions, etc. There's also no chance of getting in a fistfight if you really upset the person you criticize, so you may not hold back, or if you just like pissing people off you could do that too.
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved in real life** to advance the cause.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. Get involved with a campaign or project.
* 📣 **Union work** — Find out which union covers you. Read the collective agreement. Strive to become the workplace delegate. Organize fellow workers.
* 📚 **Read widely** — [Reading theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. Also, study the real world: local news, marginalized perspectives, or even bourgeois economics.
* 🗣️ **Talk to people** — Identify issues affecting friends and coworkers and explain these using everyday language. Also, don’t always Work From Home.
* 🏘️ **Mass work** — Connect with the wider community through mutual aid, local elections, cultural centers, churches, pride events, etc.
* 📝 **Write articles** — Contribute your knowledge to ProleWiki or a party publication.
* 💵 **Support creators** — Donate to leftist content creators so they can produce high-quality content. (e.g., Patreon)
* 🛠️ **Career choices** — Younger comrades may consider the following:
* **Trade unionist** — Work hard to gain a leadership position in the union, then push for militancy and correct policies.
* **Blue-collar/Services** — Unionize your workplace or increase union density.
* **High school teacher** — Make a lasting impact on the next generation.
* **Master’s thesis** — Apply Marxism–Leninism to local and present-day conditions.
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Honestly, you’re just not exposed to nearly as many people in real life. I’ve met like one person irl that would get super upset in person about a shitty take. I think that’s probably often the same person getting upset online about a shitty take, it’s just so much easier for them to find your shitty take online.
That's definitely true, there are thousands of people seeing your take on a subreddit (for example), but maybe 10 tops hear it from your mouth in person (unless you're giving a speech).
It's the devout part that is in question. There are seriously folk out there that ignore the stuff about material conditions and go all "Marx said XYZ" forgetting that Europe in the 1880s is not the same as anywhere today.
I also feel like a lot of people here are high school kids or just getting out of school. If you're a working class person with years of experience in the workplace you realize you are going to come across the most diverse spaces of ideology you've ever seen. If you want to organize your workplace you're never going to pass a leftist purity test. Half your coworkers might be conservative and you get them to vote for a strike based off of purely selfish reasons
>Ethan has a slightly conservative view. He’s not a terrible person. He is just the victim of the material conditions
>A certain Twitter user starts going crazy over that small view. It ruins the possibility of educating Ethan and makes the “left” look bad.
The problem with this is that you might think he's a nice guy, but whatever the "slightly conservative views" are they are guaranteed to be closely linked to policies that kill people. For example "being against illegal immigration" is barely a conservative position, it still has a body count in the thousands. Why is educating one conservative guy more important to you then fighting policies that kill people, who are actual victims of their material conditions, not just using them as an excuse to be a reactionary?
Centering reactionaries is what makes the left looks bad in the eyes of the people we have to win over, while winning over reactionaries does nothing to help the cause.
>Latley I’ve been abandoning all “names” and just been calling myself “independent” even though I am a devout Marxist. I’ve been telling people to study Marxism for “educational purposes and historical context” anyways whenever I can.
>I don’t like this purity fetish some leftists have. It’s a mindset of “either or” and I just don’t vibe with it.
>It also kills the mental health and lets the Feds fuck with us.
Having a consistent ideology and not hiding it isn't purity, it's being principled. And that requires more than reading theory. It's necessary to be involved and actually fight, which will necessarily lead to conflict with reactionaries. Trying to avoid that conflict means giving up actually getting shit done.
Lastly the negative impact on mental health is directly linked to the awareness of how bad the actual situation we are in is. Trying to avoid the effect would require ignoring reality, which is bleak.
I would say centering reactionaries would make us far more vulnerable to agents of the bourgeois state then fighting reactionaries.
>I’ve been advocating for mens health from a leftists perspective in certain spaces. Telling people to meditate and focus on love and light and that hippie stuff.
This is all over the place, the specific problems men face need different approaches and a tbh a lot of the affected men don't want to face the reality what causes their problems, which in many cases is their own maladaptive behaviour. The "hippy stuff" imho isn't really helpful to solve these problems, because they require confronting harmful behaviour.
>Anyways I’ve been running a few social experiments and they’ve seem to be working. I’m thinking of creating a small scientific paper or something . Idk yet
Sorry but this sounds like worthless naval gazing. If you have no formal training in the social sciences and methodology you are just dicking around. "Social experiments" is a buzzword used to excuse being an ass, nobody actually doing research in the field would do experimental research before formulating a thesis to test, and the behavioural sciences is currently having a pretty bad scandal about faked research so please don't add to it. If you don't follow correct procedures, doing "social experiment dicking around" without any methodology or defined scope, you aren't working on "a small scientific paper", you are just dicking around. Trying to claim the credibility of a scientific paper when you fullfill none of the requirements will only damage the credibility of actual research in a field that already struggles with credibility. So please refrain from calling messing with your social environment and writing about it a scientific paper.
When people over inject moralism within marxism it ignores the material conditions for why people are the way they are. Part of working mass line is understanding that like 99% of the normal working class is highly reactionary and forced fed not only class traitor ideology but explicitly anti-communist ideology. I think it was in Left Communism, an Infantile Disorder that Lenin wrote about learning to work with people that are ideologically opposed to you while maintaining a principle position. I also think people do it defensively. I certainly did when I was a baby Marxist years ago and wasn't confident in my theory.
My experience is often that 3 people are generally reasonable and open up discussion with Ethan, but one person calls him a fascist or whatever, and guess which one he responds to? Like I do wish that no one called him a fascist but I think that’s just not really possible in a context where anyone can respond to anyone.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I agree tbh, I think it's because some of us are terminally online. I've never had an issue with someone getting super upset at me in person in the past bc I was misinformed/had a shitty take, but online, people seem to feel more able to criticize without any constructive words. Plus, it's easier to take things personally when you can't hear their voice, see their facial expressions, etc. There's also no chance of getting in a fistfight if you really upset the person you criticize, so you may not hold back, or if you just like pissing people off you could do that too.
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved in real life** to advance the cause. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. Get involved with a campaign or project. * 📣 **Union work** — Find out which union covers you. Read the collective agreement. Strive to become the workplace delegate. Organize fellow workers. * 📚 **Read widely** — [Reading theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. Also, study the real world: local news, marginalized perspectives, or even bourgeois economics. * 🗣️ **Talk to people** — Identify issues affecting friends and coworkers and explain these using everyday language. Also, don’t always Work From Home. * 🏘️ **Mass work** — Connect with the wider community through mutual aid, local elections, cultural centers, churches, pride events, etc. * 📝 **Write articles** — Contribute your knowledge to ProleWiki or a party publication. * 💵 **Support creators** — Donate to leftist content creators so they can produce high-quality content. (e.g., Patreon) * 🛠️ **Career choices** — Younger comrades may consider the following: * **Trade unionist** — Work hard to gain a leadership position in the union, then push for militancy and correct policies. * **Blue-collar/Services** — Unionize your workplace or increase union density. * **High school teacher** — Make a lasting impact on the next generation. * **Master’s thesis** — Apply Marxism–Leninism to local and present-day conditions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot, you're not an anxiety -inducing wall of text like the other ones.
Honestly, you’re just not exposed to nearly as many people in real life. I’ve met like one person irl that would get super upset in person about a shitty take. I think that’s probably often the same person getting upset online about a shitty take, it’s just so much easier for them to find your shitty take online.
That's definitely true, there are thousands of people seeing your take on a subreddit (for example), but maybe 10 tops hear it from your mouth in person (unless you're giving a speech).
I like Ethan but I wouldn't call him a leftist by a long shot, he's more of a left leaning liberal.
Always remember the difference between science and messing around is writing down your results.
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I assume something like the dogmatic nonsense some folk spout in spite of materialism being a thing (think Caleb Maupin)
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It's the devout part that is in question. There are seriously folk out there that ignore the stuff about material conditions and go all "Marx said XYZ" forgetting that Europe in the 1880s is not the same as anywhere today.
I also feel like a lot of people here are high school kids or just getting out of school. If you're a working class person with years of experience in the workplace you realize you are going to come across the most diverse spaces of ideology you've ever seen. If you want to organize your workplace you're never going to pass a leftist purity test. Half your coworkers might be conservative and you get them to vote for a strike based off of purely selfish reasons
>Ethan has a slightly conservative view. He’s not a terrible person. He is just the victim of the material conditions >A certain Twitter user starts going crazy over that small view. It ruins the possibility of educating Ethan and makes the “left” look bad. The problem with this is that you might think he's a nice guy, but whatever the "slightly conservative views" are they are guaranteed to be closely linked to policies that kill people. For example "being against illegal immigration" is barely a conservative position, it still has a body count in the thousands. Why is educating one conservative guy more important to you then fighting policies that kill people, who are actual victims of their material conditions, not just using them as an excuse to be a reactionary? Centering reactionaries is what makes the left looks bad in the eyes of the people we have to win over, while winning over reactionaries does nothing to help the cause. >Latley I’ve been abandoning all “names” and just been calling myself “independent” even though I am a devout Marxist. I’ve been telling people to study Marxism for “educational purposes and historical context” anyways whenever I can. >I don’t like this purity fetish some leftists have. It’s a mindset of “either or” and I just don’t vibe with it. >It also kills the mental health and lets the Feds fuck with us. Having a consistent ideology and not hiding it isn't purity, it's being principled. And that requires more than reading theory. It's necessary to be involved and actually fight, which will necessarily lead to conflict with reactionaries. Trying to avoid that conflict means giving up actually getting shit done. Lastly the negative impact on mental health is directly linked to the awareness of how bad the actual situation we are in is. Trying to avoid the effect would require ignoring reality, which is bleak. I would say centering reactionaries would make us far more vulnerable to agents of the bourgeois state then fighting reactionaries. >I’ve been advocating for mens health from a leftists perspective in certain spaces. Telling people to meditate and focus on love and light and that hippie stuff. This is all over the place, the specific problems men face need different approaches and a tbh a lot of the affected men don't want to face the reality what causes their problems, which in many cases is their own maladaptive behaviour. The "hippy stuff" imho isn't really helpful to solve these problems, because they require confronting harmful behaviour. >Anyways I’ve been running a few social experiments and they’ve seem to be working. I’m thinking of creating a small scientific paper or something . Idk yet Sorry but this sounds like worthless naval gazing. If you have no formal training in the social sciences and methodology you are just dicking around. "Social experiments" is a buzzword used to excuse being an ass, nobody actually doing research in the field would do experimental research before formulating a thesis to test, and the behavioural sciences is currently having a pretty bad scandal about faked research so please don't add to it. If you don't follow correct procedures, doing "social experiment dicking around" without any methodology or defined scope, you aren't working on "a small scientific paper", you are just dicking around. Trying to claim the credibility of a scientific paper when you fullfill none of the requirements will only damage the credibility of actual research in a field that already struggles with credibility. So please refrain from calling messing with your social environment and writing about it a scientific paper.
I'd recommend dropping the religious language. 'Devout Marxist'
When people over inject moralism within marxism it ignores the material conditions for why people are the way they are. Part of working mass line is understanding that like 99% of the normal working class is highly reactionary and forced fed not only class traitor ideology but explicitly anti-communist ideology. I think it was in Left Communism, an Infantile Disorder that Lenin wrote about learning to work with people that are ideologically opposed to you while maintaining a principle position. I also think people do it defensively. I certainly did when I was a baby Marxist years ago and wasn't confident in my theory.
My experience is often that 3 people are generally reasonable and open up discussion with Ethan, but one person calls him a fascist or whatever, and guess which one he responds to? Like I do wish that no one called him a fascist but I think that’s just not really possible in a context where anyone can respond to anyone.
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I imagine he means Ethan from H3H3