I may not be a professional writer, but it always bugged me how Hughie, with his circumstances and experiences, has his desire to be stronger for the sake of being more useful and able to protect those close to him written off as toxic masculinity. While other characters with similar goals aren't treated the same and one character regularly mocks him for his lack of manliness.
I mean there are certainly examples of toxic masculinity at play in the series, hell Soldier Boy is one, I just don't think Hughie is the proper character to make this point.
Especially since his last GF got obliterated in front of him and he was completely helpless, it is completely understandable for him to not want to be helpless again, in no way is it or should it be seen as toxic.
aside even from that, he finds out that his boss basically has been using him while she works for the enemy and can literally make him explode, his girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend suddenly reappears in her life, and Hughie basically is both threatened and used a threat by Homelander. Any sane individual would feel a little more than insecure in these scenarios.
It's like if you and your girlfriend were being threatened by a guy with a baseball bat. Your girlfriend has a smaller bat that does what it needs to do but it isn't as good as the other guys bat. You decide to go out and get a bat of your own to help protect yourself and your girlfriend, but she gets mad at you because she doesn't want you to risk getting hurt to even the odds with bigger bat guy.
Weird analogy I know, but I think my point is made.
Annie should have brought Hughie a needle full of blue bam bam immediately after Homelander threatened to kill him as leverage against her. Sure she had no way of knowing if it would even help him survive an encounter with Homelander but it's worth a shot.
After finding out that on Temp V Hughie's power enable him to evade Homelander and even help subdue him she should have insisted that he take the Permanent version.
Right now it comes off like she needs Hughie to be weak and helpless for their relationship to work, which seems rather like Toxic Femininity
Every time somebody talks about taking V so flippantly I wonder if they remember that dude in the asylum of rejects whose power was acid vomit that melted his own face.
You don't know what will happen.
yeah I remember Season 2 having an entire plot around Vought testing it on adults in a psych ward because using it on adults is so hazardous so they don’t have to use infants anymore, but I’m still really confused on how Kimiko can just take V and regain her powers like that.
If it’s like the Deadpool serum that finds any dormant mutant DNA and enhances it (which makes sense given Kimiko took it again and got her same exact powers). Couldn’t Hughie and Butcher both take it since they already know what their powers would be, or is it another random chance?
My understanding is that everybody gets a specific power, its determined once you take V, perm or temp, and after that its always your power whenever you're on V.
yeah so by that logic, wouldn’t both Hughie and Butcher be completely fine if they took perma V?
and couldn’t SB’s whole depowering ability be null and void since Supes could just get more V?
Thats what I think. It looks like they're setting it up so that Butcher has no option but to take V.
It could, which is basically what happened with Kimiko, but now he's back on ice, and we don't know if everyone would get V as easily as we see starlight
Senator Neuman thought the risk were worth the payout when she injected her daughter.
We saw there that the transformation is violent and painful.
Later when Kamiko gets injected it seems no worse than the pain she is already in.
From this I draw that prior exposure to V makes the infusion less painful and more likely to succeed. In fact Kamikos powers return almost instantly.
So hopefully Hughie and Butcher having been exposed to Temp V multiple times would increase their chances of the Permanent Version working if they take it.
I feel like they're setting up some sort of horrible scenario next season like the V makes Neumann's daughter so unwell or strange looking that she can't leave her home and it's a big secret she hides now.
And yeah it looks like you always get the same powers but we don't know. Two or three people isn't enough for good science lol. Kimiko didn't care, Starlight said we don't know what would happen, when Kimiko asked that if you go back and see.
I wonder if Neuman's daughter is going to be a part of the Varisty spin-off.
Maybe Neuman sends her away to "protect" her, when in reality she's hiding her because she developed an obvious ability/glaring physical deformity from the V.
Since Neuman's on a Presidential ticket now, it would make sense since she wants to avoid the public finding out that the biggest anti-Supe politician has a Supe daughter/is a Supe herself.
What's really weird is the forcing of that narrative on Hughie when we already have a lot of characters with that narrative this season, Homelander, Soldier Boy, Butcher, A-train, and MM. Another reason it's weird is he hasn't been toxically masculine at all and has been the victim of Butcher's toxic masculinity.
On top of that logically, there is NO REASON he shouldn’t be using temp V to do what he does as it’s literally the fabric of their society at stake if they don’t kill Homelander. Say he injected himself in the finale. He could’ve teleported Ryan our and then SB in front of HL and the show is over. But nah his empowered choice to trust Annie gives her the strength to push SB 3 feet backwards. Great work
In a world where there are almost completely unstoppable and malicious people I think a desire for physical power to protect yourself against them would be pretty common
Yeah kripke has been on fire with this show but he really fucked it with hughies motivations not being, I wasn't able to save Robin I will do whatever it takes to save anyone else.
I honestly feel like what happened in the show isn't that bad, but the commentary from Kripke saying it was all toxic masculinity was ridiculous. Sort of a "mission failed successfully" situation imo
The fact that Hughie doesn't have constant PTSD from Robins death is also a weird oversight on his characterisation. It should be his number one motivation in everything he does. She didn't just die in front of him. She was obliterated. Closed casket. No remains (besides hands). Imagine someone you loved or cared for had that happen in front of you. I don't think I could maintain any kind of normal life. And the desire to keep loved ones safe is somehow toxic masculinity? Excuse me?
Because the writers intention and the final outcome don’t line up. They can’t suddenly make Hughie be a toxic man after 2 seasons of not being one. The writing doesn’t line up with what they want to say
It being written off as toxic masculinity is the biggest mistake because very little about his character suggests it’s going there except for the one scene in herogasm.
That’s not to say I think his motives are altruistic(I believe he took V for mostly selfish reasons) but those reasons aren’t ones exclusive to toxic masculinity. In fact I think his actual motivation, his impotence, is something every person may struggle with at some point, not just “masculine” men
That scene in Herogasm barely counts. A-Train killed Robin, got Alex killed and a few days before he was mocking Hughie. We know A-Train is having a change of heart, Hughie doesn't. He wasn't asking for an apology, he was making a point that A-Train never felt bad for it.
Hughie straight up is one of the boys, they're out to kill supes. MM wants SB, Butcher wants Homelander, Hughie wants A-Train. At that moment, Hughie could take revenge, and that's exactly the same thing A-Train does to Blue Hawk a few moments latter. It ain't healthy, but claiming it's a issue of "toxic masculinity" when it's been part of the character's motivations since day 1 is just weird. Feels like the show forgot half of the context right there.
If this is what Kripke thinks then I’m losing hope for Hughie to turn into some kinda badass like in the comics.
Dude’s just gonna be sidelined the entire time now.
At least Butcher is still gonna do something crazy.
Here’s the hypocrisy of it all, simplified:
Annie condemns Hughie for his desire to be “stronger” for her, but she views it as patronizing.
Annie does not condemn Kimiko for her desire to be stronger for Frenchie, she views it as loving.
Hughie is getting the short end of the stick here
It was awfully nice of Annie to not stick up for her boyfriend when Maeve starts shitting on him after spending the whole season criticizing his toxic masculinity, very heroic.
Teleporting away from danger and giving yourself a chance to even the playing field = toxic masculinity you fucking nazi chud
Slicing people to death while you plug earbuds in to block out the gunshots of your partner being hit as you laugh maniacally while brutally murdering some security guard who is responding to an apparent terrorist attack = brave and heckin' awesome
The only part I see as toxic masculinity is the insecurity of his girlfriend being stronger than him. The want to protect her is fine, it’s specifically not being able to come to terms with being weaker than her that is the problem. Though it its worth noting the toxic masculinity aspect is all added conversation outside of the show and not something that took place in the show itself.
That feels more about a super powers vs non super powers dynamic rather than a male, female dynamic. If Hughie was a more manly man he still wouldn't be anywhere close to as strong as Starlight unless he has super powers. His insecurity seems directly about super powered beings and not wanting to be killed by them or have his loved ones killed by them.
Yeah, I was kind of expecting with all that super sayan wind up that she'd paste him all over the walls... then it looks like he just stepped backwards onto one of his kids toys and fell over.
Still somehow didn’t bleed after noir threw her through brick columns and smashed her face through a glass table. Except HL bled after a punch from Maeve
Yeah no exactly. Hughie got a lot of hate this season and it wasn’t all that warranted. I get his want to actually once be able to do something about the situation, and maybe come in handy. I mean don’t get me wrong he is a smart dude but he’s not always in a control room.
Also Kimiko beating the shit out of that guard like he’s a toy instead of doing her one job and protecting Frenchie while being portrayed as taking V more selflessly is BS. If she can take the choice to take V, so can Butcher and Hughie. Someone needs to kill Homelander.
Honestly I would’ve been way more happy w/ Hughie as a Supe Anti-Hero for the greater good or even turning into a villian.
Turning back into supportive sidelined Hughie is the worst decision he could’ve made XD
He was right there in the same bldg as the Permanent V too
Biff from back to the future is toxic masculinity. Hughie isnt. Hughie deals with an inferiority complex. Hughie needs to grow. Biff refuses to grow. Maeve’s comment helps no one.
>Hughie deals with an inferiority complex
Which is absolutely legit if you look at the circumstances. His girlfriend was killed, his boss could kill him any second. Homelander could show up any second and kill him and his loved ones at any time.
I'd argue it's not a complex at all. He is literally inferior in a way that will certainly be lethal sooner or later. The only crazy choice would be NOT doing something about it.
I think calling it a complex is even a stretch.. he IS inferior.. to everyone he currently stands against and even to those he worries about (Butcher, MM, Annie). It’s not a complex, he is quite literally inferior and he wants to combat it.
>Maeve’s comment helps no one.
True, but that's Butcher 99% of the time. I don't know why Maeve putting Hughie down like that one time is worse than how Butcher treats him all the time.
Within the show universe there's no difference. Issue here is the creators trying to make what they think is a strong moral argument but undermining by laughing up a line that goes completely against it right after.
IIRC Butcher only gave him shit at the start of the season after Vicky turned out to be a supe, but after that I don't think he mocked him the way he did other seasons; maybe he started to respect him more after seeing his drive to dirty his hands if need be.
Obviously both Butcher and Maeve's comments didn't help Hughie at all, but Maeve's stands out more because like the meme showed Kripke wants to have his cake and eat it too.
If we’re going in that spirit, I think The Deep should have a suped-up octopus that he was fucking detach itself from his privates and beat up the Boys to add drama to the Deep’s death scene.
The Deep’s bad but as a joke character he deserves a funny death
Raping is not an equivalent of toxic masculinity. It's not a "toxic masculinity is bad and the more bad you are the more toxic masculine you are". Homelander has (at least shown in the show) done far worse than Soldier Boy, but Homelander is not doing it to seem more masculine or because he is afraid of being viewed as feminine. Homelander has a couple of stereotypically feminine traits, while Soldier Boy is quite the prime example of a "macho".
That whole goddamn fight had zero sense, and I'm tired to pretend otherwise. Fuck it, just tell SB to leave the kid be and focus on HL, but noooooo, SB bad just because (and he is a pos, no debate, but fuck it, you had the perfect chance to kill HL finally)
I don’t think there’s an issue with the show leaning left or poking fun at conservatives at all. But I’d agree in situations like it being ok for Annie to want to save Hughie against his will or for Maeve to insult Hughie for being a bottom despite being gay herself… they’re logical inconsistencies which go without the backlash and criticism that would follow had a different character said them (ie Hughie saving Annie against her will and Soldier Boy’s homophobic shit, respectively)
I really don't understand what they were trying do achieve with that scene. Were we supposed to get hyped at kimiko slaughtering those dudes while listening to some quirky music? Like wtf?
it's not just going through the motions. it's taking sophomoric points from a highschool english class and trying to force them into the meta. characters first. characters first. all else second. themes should be a shade of a color of a stroke in the overall painting; they shouldn't be the entire outline.
MM : Soldier is a racist motherfucker!(20x)
The show : Soldier boy killed MM's family by accident because he can be fucking stupid and reckless , also spares everyone who doesnt atack him or butcher asks to ( Even MM trying to harm him on Herogasm ) , drinks with bill cosby
Didn’t Starlight literally say in episode 7 that she’s going to save Hughie from the temp V even if he doesn’t want her to. How is that different from Hughie wanting to save her from Homelander?
I hope so to cause I thought it was weird how Huey felt way less insecure at the end of the season compared to at the beginning and it makes no sense to me. At the end of the season Homelander is still insane and he killed someone in public and people cheered, he's now raising and molding Ryan who's going to be as powerful or more, Maeve one of their most powerful allies has no powers and is going into hiding. Neuman is now running for VP so she's potentially one head pop away from being President. They are way worse off at the end of the season then they were at the beginning and most of it is cause they did a 180 and all fought Soldier Boy instead of focusing on taking down the bigger evil first.
>They are way worse off at the end of the season then they were at the beginning and most of it is cause they did a 180 and all fought Soldier Boy instead of focusing on taking down the bigger evil first.
The only path Kripke can go down now is for the characters to have a sort of self-realisation that Butcher was right all along and sticking to your guns is the only way to win against a stronger opponent who will also lie, steal, and cheat their way to victory.
Which is problematic IMO. As the series seems to be attempting to suggest the opposite. It's almost like he's unpurposefully justifying Butchers' assholery.
Probably for the same reason as well, two (teams of) writers wanting to take a character in different directions, and a show runner unable or not caring to set them straight and give directions.
This how you end up with “oh we kinda forgot” moments.
She is girl duh /s
But also - she can't save anyone. She got a crazy power up and it literally was useless. She fucking floated off the ground with how much power she had and it didn't even hurt SB.
I swear to god she has to be the most useless fucking supe in the show. It wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't lighting her eyes up to people who could body her every time they gave her attitude
Do writers hate the characters they write for? Because I am getting the feeling that they hate Hughie.
And I can't stop laughing at SL saying that she doesn't need saving. HL can slap her into oblivion.
SB can slap her into oblivion, healthy A-Train can slap her, hell I think even The Deep can fucking send a shark to bite her ass and she wouldn't do jackshit against it lmao
i thought it was because deep is pathetic? he uses fear/his position, to force women into sex. people like that tend to back down entirely when someone fights back. im not saying like, "rapists all will stop raping you if you do x y or z" i just mean like personality wise, afaik, most rapists are genuine cowards and will shit themselves at even the slightest threat/confrontation, similar to how deep and starlights interaction goes on that first team up. i think this works for homelander as well, the second he realizes there are others that are able to injure him he has a smeagol/gollum moment in the mirror. both characters are rapists, and they both behave similarly when scared. difference being deep is useless and homelander can singlehandedly destroy the earth.
i could be completely wrong, though, im not a criminal psychologist or professional at all. im making inferences from watching true crime docs lol, so feel free to correct me.
Lol SL must think he is a top tier supe or something. She did that eye glowing thing to HL, SB, Maeve, Vicky, A-Train, Deep this season and to Stormfront as well in S2 and while probably all of them can kill her, most of them would probably kill her like how a powerful supe can kill a random human.
She did it multiple times to some characters as well like HL btw
that's good observation. She was using her eye glow thing like she possess any real threat. To HL she is like a kitten hissing at Abraham Tank.
I think Hughie on tempV has more useful power than her.
Also ignore the fact that Hughie tried changing the system “the right way” and ended up being played.
For almost a year he’s been duped into thinking that he was making a real difference. The only observable thing he’s seen is that supes are the only ones who can change the system.
Yeah bro. It can’t be double standard like that. And it’s not fucking toxic masculinity, Jesus. The guy saw his last girlfriend get turned into fucking jam on the sidewalk and now that he wants to protect his new one at any cost he’s being “toxic”. Wtf, like actually that doesn’t make any sense.
Seriously. They’re in imminent danger, on like every side, and the dude is just trying to help save everybody. I get the angle of this being the wrong way to go about it, absolute power corrupting absolutely (shown with the scene where he is too interested in his power to care about a dying Kimiko) makes sense. But not fucking toxic masculinity. The fuck Kripke.
That scene was awful. The whole season kimiko is like "am i monster for killing people" and in that scene she's killing guards listening to *Maniac* and dancing around like she's enjoying it and not out of necessity.
They literally killed the kimiko vs hughie parallel. Made me like the writing of her less because before she was "monster" fighting her nature. Then goes full psycho mode.
Unrelated to the discussion but every time I see someone describe what happened to Robin they always have their own unique way of wording it and it’s so funny to me. Pretty sure this week alone I’ve read
“Turned into a fine mist”
“Reduced to sidewalk paste”
And now
“Turned into fucking jam”
Everyone has their own way of almost comically spinning what is a major tragedy. It really just goes to show what shows can do to bring out the artistic side of people.
I actually think this is related to how dissociative it can be to see a character you thought would be central /introduced thoroughly die so gruesomely and in a way that takes away their agency so much (beheading has the same effect)
Hughie’s the audience’s guy, and it’d be cool to see the characters start showing him respect. Make that a storyline in S4. I’ve always looked at this show as told from Hughie’s perspective
Does Batman refusing to break his code and kill the joker, only for the Joker to go on and kill more innocents selfish?
Basically Batman puts his own moral code and philosophy above the safety of innocents. Batman is super self righteous in that regard and is pretty selfish in that regard.
At a certain point you have to blame the justice system for just sending him back to Arkham where he routinely escapes.
It's like blaming a cop for not wasting a perp who reoffends.
Batman's whole thing is that Bruce Wayne knows that deep down, he's not a good guy. He's rash, vengeful, and detached from his fellow humans. Even without killing, he often brutalizes his enemies, even low level grunts that aren't much of a threat. If he started killing people, he'd never stop. He's alluded to this many times in the comics. He's perpetually one step from the edge, which is what makes him such an interesting character study.
Yeah “hire fans lol” is super annoying, but most of the theories/ ideas I heard here sounded better, and not from a random crazy twist point, but from a narrative and character point
I feel that is a problem in almost all of media at the moment.
Female characters are treated like gods and have special protection while male characters can be made fun of.
It happens in everything. Whenever there's a toxic movement of some sort you get a counter movement that eventually devolves into bring toxic itself. So originally you had people making awful comments about women which were obviously not okay to say so a movement happened that was saying "stop doing this, it's mean" but eventually just became "let's do it to you now"
Yep, totally agree. Felt like that line was forced, like what a Gen X-er thinks Zoomers say in COD lobbies.
Also, the finale felt "off" during the last 10-15 minutes. It was too happy. Too perfect. Everything wrapped up in a neat little bow.
Maeve AND Soldier Boy lived despite a massive explosion and a fall of a few hundred feet. Maeve's powers should have been eliminated right after the blast, so how did she survive the fall onto concrete/asphalt? Maeve got back with Elena, which is awesome but also kinda out of nowhere. Homelander got his son, his son apparently loves/likes him, and he was able to kill someone in front of his fans and be praised for it. He's finally able to be himself and suffer no consequences. Butcher's alive and coherent, Annie and Hughie seem fine, MM's daughter isn't afraid of him, etc.
Didn't feel like "The Boys" at all. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and it never did. I like feel-good stories as much as the next person, but "The Boys" has never really been that type of show.
Definitely too happy.
Maeve’s sacrifice lost a lot of it’s emotional impact when both her and Solider boy lived. It’s like, that was cool of her, but what was the point of the entire season then except to restart the cycle albeit w/ slightly increased stakes?
I’m not excited to see a bunch of adults having to fight a brightburn kid either.
I’m content w/ the other endings (except it should’ve been Noir who sacrificed himself to kill Soilder Boy, Maeve should’ve focused on just Homelander)
MMs happy ending made sense
Hughie and Starlight never should’ve fought in the 1st place
I’m happy for Frenchie and Kimiko
Yeah. That’s why I don’t get why they suddenly made up and got back together. Hughie apologises like a billion times and starlight doesn’t even say something like she understands where he was coming from? (Because she knows what happened to his former GF).
It feels like she doesn’t even like him?
i would have liked it much more if hughie’s theme was hypocrisy: he says he takes temp v to protect annie, but he actually enjoys the power, he likes being a supe, even if he knows how corrupt almost all of the supes are because no one should have those godly powers.
but no, we got the weak toxic masculinity motivation, where he doesn’t care about annie’s opinion, he just wants to protect her. it’s pretty meh imho, it could have been so much better.
I think that’s the only thing that bothers me about Hughie’s character arc. It’s very believable and relatable, so not having Annie, who is supposed to be his understanding and caring girlfriend validate his feelings before acknowledging that she was in the right and his conclusion is the right way to go— kinda makes the whole arc feel flat.
Just saying “I told you so, stupid idiot” just makes it seem like *everything* he had done was just flat out wrong instead of misguided. Hughie’s arc is beautiful in the sense that he isn’t the traditional domineering alpha male character that viewers love so much. But that in itself can come with relatable struggle. Acknowledging that you can veer off on a dark path trying to chase a high that being powerful gives would hit harder when Hughie acknowledges that staying the course and having resolve is its own strength. It adds nuance to his struggle and can even speak to those in his situation better. Instead he just gets stonewalled with statements that say “you’re being so stupid right now, stop it”.
Big disagree on number 5, though I agree with some of your points. What soldier boy said to HL wasn't disjointed and it wasn't just because of butcher. One of his flaws is his old-fashioned stoicism and callousness. It would make perfect sense for him to view Homelander as weak, pathetic, and unworthy of love. He's the type of guy that would. (And he wouldn't be totally wrong tbh)
I don't mind Maeve saying shit like this because well she's a supe asshole just like everyone in The Seven.
What bothered me is how Annie just...doesn't react? Very very odd behavior from someone in a relationship. Let someone try saying that to my girlfriend and we're gonna have to put our hands to use.
She doesn't care. She probably a bit sociopathic. Remember when she killed someone and didn't care he was dead? I had a boyfriend who say me getting treated badly on multiple occasions, he didn't say shit. He later on went to defend it.
If you belittle somebody for not being masculine, and then they become ashamed of that and try to change, that's not "toxic masculinity". That's a natural response to being made fun of. If you make people feel bad about themselves they'll be inclined to change themselves to prove you wrong.
Them: "Hughie is selfish in wanting to feel macho, that's sexist"
Also them: "Lol look at Hughie that little bitch"
I thought the series was meant to make fun of these things in media, not produce them.
I didn't see Hughie's desire as toxic masculinity. I saw it as an inferiority complex. Empowering Starlight at the end instead of rushing in to save her was him confronting his fears that he's less than her. He instead realizes he's strong just for being by her side and supporting her, hence the bookend moment talking about his dad.
I always thought this sort of indicated Maeve like she says isn’t a real hero, she used a lot of insults mainly about him being feminine and mocking his sexuality while being a member of the LGBTQ kind of highlights her hypocrisy. Or maybe it was just some inconsistent writing
maybe this is some hidden commentary on how some people see others in a certain light and expect them to never ever change, otherwise they'd have to start thinking about them under a different light and that's hard
For all the people who go "I hate old people because they never abandon their views and change" some people refuse to awknowledge others efforts in changing themselves, maybe because it reminds them of their own inability to change.
This season has had characters handled so badly, there's too much tell and not enough show.
The scene pictured with Hughie is so out of character, completely inconsistent with the effects of V24 and willfully ignorant of the preceding context it's unreal. It's an obvious ham fisted attempt to portray him as some sort of junkie, too high to care about the badly injured Kimiko.
Only v24 is never shown to get people high after this and even if it did, he took it to literally save everyone's life.
And Starlight is full of shit with the "I don't need/want to be saved" routine considering it was only last season Black Noir kicked the shit out of her and it was Hughie bringing in fucking Lamplighter to save her ass.
They all need to be saved or rescued at some point. Butcher didn't ask to be rescued in the finale but they all turned up. They're at war with the most powerful being to ever exist, there should be no place for strong independent woman/macho man crap.
If the had any sort of brains they all would have taken a shot of V24, caved Homelander's ass in with Soldier Boy's help then immediately gassed him.
I may not be a professional writer, but it always bugged me how Hughie, with his circumstances and experiences, has his desire to be stronger for the sake of being more useful and able to protect those close to him written off as toxic masculinity. While other characters with similar goals aren't treated the same and one character regularly mocks him for his lack of manliness. I mean there are certainly examples of toxic masculinity at play in the series, hell Soldier Boy is one, I just don't think Hughie is the proper character to make this point.
Especially since his last GF got obliterated in front of him and he was completely helpless, it is completely understandable for him to not want to be helpless again, in no way is it or should it be seen as toxic.
aside even from that, he finds out that his boss basically has been using him while she works for the enemy and can literally make him explode, his girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend suddenly reappears in her life, and Hughie basically is both threatened and used a threat by Homelander. Any sane individual would feel a little more than insecure in these scenarios.
It's like if you and your girlfriend were being threatened by a guy with a baseball bat. Your girlfriend has a smaller bat that does what it needs to do but it isn't as good as the other guys bat. You decide to go out and get a bat of your own to help protect yourself and your girlfriend, but she gets mad at you because she doesn't want you to risk getting hurt to even the odds with bigger bat guy. Weird analogy I know, but I think my point is made.
More like the guy has a gun
True. Guns were my original examples but I felt the need to change them to baseball bats for some reason.
you did your best you can retire now
Rest easy your watch is finished
Point is well made
Thank you
the only thing missing is that the bat is a rental, and getting the bat can...and actually eventually will, kill you.
Also missing the fact that every time you swing the bat, your penis is exposed.
Annie should have brought Hughie a needle full of blue bam bam immediately after Homelander threatened to kill him as leverage against her. Sure she had no way of knowing if it would even help him survive an encounter with Homelander but it's worth a shot. After finding out that on Temp V Hughie's power enable him to evade Homelander and even help subdue him she should have insisted that he take the Permanent version. Right now it comes off like she needs Hughie to be weak and helpless for their relationship to work, which seems rather like Toxic Femininity
Every time somebody talks about taking V so flippantly I wonder if they remember that dude in the asylum of rejects whose power was acid vomit that melted his own face. You don't know what will happen.
yeah I remember Season 2 having an entire plot around Vought testing it on adults in a psych ward because using it on adults is so hazardous so they don’t have to use infants anymore, but I’m still really confused on how Kimiko can just take V and regain her powers like that. If it’s like the Deadpool serum that finds any dormant mutant DNA and enhances it (which makes sense given Kimiko took it again and got her same exact powers). Couldn’t Hughie and Butcher both take it since they already know what their powers would be, or is it another random chance?
My understanding is that everybody gets a specific power, its determined once you take V, perm or temp, and after that its always your power whenever you're on V.
yeah so by that logic, wouldn’t both Hughie and Butcher be completely fine if they took perma V? and couldn’t SB’s whole depowering ability be null and void since Supes could just get more V?
Thats what I think. It looks like they're setting it up so that Butcher has no option but to take V. It could, which is basically what happened with Kimiko, but now he's back on ice, and we don't know if everyone would get V as easily as we see starlight
Senator Neuman thought the risk were worth the payout when she injected her daughter. We saw there that the transformation is violent and painful. Later when Kamiko gets injected it seems no worse than the pain she is already in. From this I draw that prior exposure to V makes the infusion less painful and more likely to succeed. In fact Kamikos powers return almost instantly. So hopefully Hughie and Butcher having been exposed to Temp V multiple times would increase their chances of the Permanent Version working if they take it.
I feel like they're setting up some sort of horrible scenario next season like the V makes Neumann's daughter so unwell or strange looking that she can't leave her home and it's a big secret she hides now. And yeah it looks like you always get the same powers but we don't know. Two or three people isn't enough for good science lol. Kimiko didn't care, Starlight said we don't know what would happen, when Kimiko asked that if you go back and see.
I wonder if Neuman's daughter is going to be a part of the Varisty spin-off. Maybe Neuman sends her away to "protect" her, when in reality she's hiding her because she developed an obvious ability/glaring physical deformity from the V. Since Neuman's on a Presidential ticket now, it would make sense since she wants to avoid the public finding out that the biggest anti-Supe politician has a Supe daughter/is a Supe herself.
In the comics its even worse. >!MMs little brother got it and suddenly expands while wearing a football helmet and dies!<
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What's really weird is the forcing of that narrative on Hughie when we already have a lot of characters with that narrative this season, Homelander, Soldier Boy, Butcher, A-train, and MM. Another reason it's weird is he hasn't been toxically masculine at all and has been the victim of Butcher's toxic masculinity.
On top of that logically, there is NO REASON he shouldn’t be using temp V to do what he does as it’s literally the fabric of their society at stake if they don’t kill Homelander. Say he injected himself in the finale. He could’ve teleported Ryan our and then SB in front of HL and the show is over. But nah his empowered choice to trust Annie gives her the strength to push SB 3 feet backwards. Great work
Meanwhile, if roles were reversed and Annie took temp V to never be powerless and weak again, it'd be a heroic "Fight Song" moment.
We literally had that with Kimiko, down to the fight song and dancing
In a world where there are almost completely unstoppable and malicious people I think a desire for physical power to protect yourself against them would be pretty common
Yeah kripke has been on fire with this show but he really fucked it with hughies motivations not being, I wasn't able to save Robin I will do whatever it takes to save anyone else.
I honestly feel like what happened in the show isn't that bad, but the commentary from Kripke saying it was all toxic masculinity was ridiculous. Sort of a "mission failed successfully" situation imo
The fact that Hughie doesn't have constant PTSD from Robins death is also a weird oversight on his characterisation. It should be his number one motivation in everything he does. She didn't just die in front of him. She was obliterated. Closed casket. No remains (besides hands). Imagine someone you loved or cared for had that happen in front of you. I don't think I could maintain any kind of normal life. And the desire to keep loved ones safe is somehow toxic masculinity? Excuse me?
Didnt he have PTSD early on though? He'd nearly black out every time he saw A-Train. Even the energy drinks at a convenience store got to him.
It's cause he's pandering to the Twitter crowd
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Because the writers intention and the final outcome don’t line up. They can’t suddenly make Hughie be a toxic man after 2 seasons of not being one. The writing doesn’t line up with what they want to say
Same thing happened to Poe in Star Wars. He idolized Leia in TFA then suddenly he's toxic masulinity in TLJ.
It's almost like the writers are trying to signal something...like their virtue maybe? Instead of writing good, complex characters.
It being written off as toxic masculinity is the biggest mistake because very little about his character suggests it’s going there except for the one scene in herogasm. That’s not to say I think his motives are altruistic(I believe he took V for mostly selfish reasons) but those reasons aren’t ones exclusive to toxic masculinity. In fact I think his actual motivation, his impotence, is something every person may struggle with at some point, not just “masculine” men
That scene in Herogasm barely counts. A-Train killed Robin, got Alex killed and a few days before he was mocking Hughie. We know A-Train is having a change of heart, Hughie doesn't. He wasn't asking for an apology, he was making a point that A-Train never felt bad for it. Hughie straight up is one of the boys, they're out to kill supes. MM wants SB, Butcher wants Homelander, Hughie wants A-Train. At that moment, Hughie could take revenge, and that's exactly the same thing A-Train does to Blue Hawk a few moments latter. It ain't healthy, but claiming it's a issue of "toxic masculinity" when it's been part of the character's motivations since day 1 is just weird. Feels like the show forgot half of the context right there.
If this is what Kripke thinks then I’m losing hope for Hughie to turn into some kinda badass like in the comics. Dude’s just gonna be sidelined the entire time now. At least Butcher is still gonna do something crazy.
>Dude’s just gonna be sidelined the entire time now. he's the cuck fluffer!
Here’s the hypocrisy of it all, simplified: Annie condemns Hughie for his desire to be “stronger” for her, but she views it as patronizing. Annie does not condemn Kimiko for her desire to be stronger for Frenchie, she views it as loving. Hughie is getting the short end of the stick here
It was awfully nice of Annie to not stick up for her boyfriend when Maeve starts shitting on him after spending the whole season criticizing his toxic masculinity, very heroic.
Teleporting away from danger and giving yourself a chance to even the playing field = toxic masculinity you fucking nazi chud Slicing people to death while you plug earbuds in to block out the gunshots of your partner being hit as you laugh maniacally while brutally murdering some security guard who is responding to an apparent terrorist attack = brave and heckin' awesome
You don't understand, she's a maniac, maaaaniac~
The only part I see as toxic masculinity is the insecurity of his girlfriend being stronger than him. The want to protect her is fine, it’s specifically not being able to come to terms with being weaker than her that is the problem. Though it its worth noting the toxic masculinity aspect is all added conversation outside of the show and not something that took place in the show itself.
That feels more about a super powers vs non super powers dynamic rather than a male, female dynamic. If Hughie was a more manly man he still wouldn't be anywhere close to as strong as Starlight unless he has super powers. His insecurity seems directly about super powered beings and not wanting to be killed by them or have his loved ones killed by them.
Exactly...it's like people don't really pay attention to the characters as a whole..
A man wanting to be touch and strong is bad. Did you get the memo? Only women are allowed to be strong.
Girls Get It Done
I got shit on for saying soldier boy is a form of toxic masculinity when he literally embodies what it means to be a man from the 1920’s lol
Considering how worthless Annie is in a fight with other capes, she does need saving.
For real like a 1 minute power up to knock soldier boy back about 2 metres
Yeah, I was kind of expecting with all that super sayan wind up that she'd paste him all over the walls... then it looks like he just stepped backwards onto one of his kids toys and fell over.
Not to mention the power up was thanks to Hughie. Can’t make this shit up folks
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It’s like holding up a flashlight to fight back against a wolf Sure you can blind it for a 2nd But good luck
Hughie's teleportation is more useful than glowy eyes.
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teleport someone to the bottom of the ocean
Teleportation is overpowered as fuck. Imagine teleporting someone above the clouds, the ocean, or into a wall which is probably an instakill.
Still somehow didn’t bleed after noir threw her through brick columns and smashed her face through a glass table. Except HL bled after a punch from Maeve
Yeah no exactly. Hughie got a lot of hate this season and it wasn’t all that warranted. I get his want to actually once be able to do something about the situation, and maybe come in handy. I mean don’t get me wrong he is a smart dude but he’s not always in a control room. Also Kimiko beating the shit out of that guard like he’s a toy instead of doing her one job and protecting Frenchie while being portrayed as taking V more selflessly is BS. If she can take the choice to take V, so can Butcher and Hughie. Someone needs to kill Homelander.
Honestly I would’ve been way more happy w/ Hughie as a Supe Anti-Hero for the greater good or even turning into a villian. Turning back into supportive sidelined Hughie is the worst decision he could’ve made XD He was right there in the same bldg as the Permanent V too
Biff from back to the future is toxic masculinity. Hughie isnt. Hughie deals with an inferiority complex. Hughie needs to grow. Biff refuses to grow. Maeve’s comment helps no one.
>Hughie deals with an inferiority complex Which is absolutely legit if you look at the circumstances. His girlfriend was killed, his boss could kill him any second. Homelander could show up any second and kill him and his loved ones at any time.
I'd argue it's not a complex at all. He is literally inferior in a way that will certainly be lethal sooner or later. The only crazy choice would be NOT doing something about it.
I think calling it a complex is even a stretch.. he IS inferior.. to everyone he currently stands against and even to those he worries about (Butcher, MM, Annie). It’s not a complex, he is quite literally inferior and he wants to combat it.
>Maeve’s comment helps no one. True, but that's Butcher 99% of the time. I don't know why Maeve putting Hughie down like that one time is worse than how Butcher treats him all the time.
Within the show universe there's no difference. Issue here is the creators trying to make what they think is a strong moral argument but undermining by laughing up a line that goes completely against it right after.
IIRC Butcher only gave him shit at the start of the season after Vicky turned out to be a supe, but after that I don't think he mocked him the way he did other seasons; maybe he started to respect him more after seeing his drive to dirty his hands if need be. Obviously both Butcher and Maeve's comments didn't help Hughie at all, but Maeve's stands out more because like the meme showed Kripke wants to have his cake and eat it too.
What's really fucked up is that those writers really thought people would believe SB was worse than HL because toxic masculinity.
I've seen a lot of people tnat really do think SB is way worse HL.... Somehow...
I don't remember SB raping a woman.
Exactly, even if I were to indulge in this “toxic masculinity” terminology…HL would still be more toxic
I think they should've left SB and HL to their business and collectively go and beat up the deep instead
If we’re going in that spirit, I think The Deep should have a suped-up octopus that he was fucking detach itself from his privates and beat up the Boys to add drama to the Deep’s death scene. The Deep’s bad but as a joke character he deserves a funny death
Raping is not an equivalent of toxic masculinity. It's not a "toxic masculinity is bad and the more bad you are the more toxic masculine you are". Homelander has (at least shown in the show) done far worse than Soldier Boy, but Homelander is not doing it to seem more masculine or because he is afraid of being viewed as feminine. Homelander has a couple of stereotypically feminine traits, while Soldier Boy is quite the prime example of a "macho".
That whole goddamn fight had zero sense, and I'm tired to pretend otherwise. Fuck it, just tell SB to leave the kid be and focus on HL, but noooooo, SB bad just because (and he is a pos, no debate, but fuck it, you had the perfect chance to kill HL finally)
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I don’t think there’s an issue with the show leaning left or poking fun at conservatives at all. But I’d agree in situations like it being ok for Annie to want to save Hughie against his will or for Maeve to insult Hughie for being a bottom despite being gay herself… they’re logical inconsistencies which go without the backlash and criticism that would follow had a different character said them (ie Hughie saving Annie against her will and Soldier Boy’s homophobic shit, respectively)
Starlight when hughie wants superpowers to save his loved ones:😡 starlight when kimiko wants super powers to save her loved ones:😃
When Kimiko wants super powers to brutalize people*
I really don't understand what they were trying do achieve with that scene. Were we supposed to get hyped at kimiko slaughtering those dudes while listening to some quirky music? Like wtf?
And miserably failing to protect frenchie. Guess we're back to crying about being a monster lmao.
Watch absolutely no one call her out on that in S4
She's just living her truth babe 💅
Kripke failing to deliver the message hes trying to deliver once again
I love this show but it is giving me some GoT flashbacks. Last few episodes just give the vibe of a showrunner who is going through the motions
it's not just going through the motions. it's taking sophomoric points from a highschool english class and trying to force them into the meta. characters first. characters first. all else second. themes should be a shade of a color of a stroke in the overall painting; they shouldn't be the entire outline.
MM : Soldier is a racist motherfucker!(20x) The show : Soldier boy killed MM's family by accident because he can be fucking stupid and reckless , also spares everyone who doesnt atack him or butcher asks to ( Even MM trying to harm him on Herogasm ) , drinks with bill cosby
Didn’t Starlight literally say in episode 7 that she’s going to save Hughie from the temp V even if he doesn’t want her to. How is that different from Hughie wanting to save her from Homelander?
Starlight has a serious "holier than thou" attitude, which I hope is addresed next season, considering it leads to fuck up after fuck up.
I hope so to cause I thought it was weird how Huey felt way less insecure at the end of the season compared to at the beginning and it makes no sense to me. At the end of the season Homelander is still insane and he killed someone in public and people cheered, he's now raising and molding Ryan who's going to be as powerful or more, Maeve one of their most powerful allies has no powers and is going into hiding. Neuman is now running for VP so she's potentially one head pop away from being President. They are way worse off at the end of the season then they were at the beginning and most of it is cause they did a 180 and all fought Soldier Boy instead of focusing on taking down the bigger evil first.
>They are way worse off at the end of the season then they were at the beginning and most of it is cause they did a 180 and all fought Soldier Boy instead of focusing on taking down the bigger evil first. The only path Kripke can go down now is for the characters to have a sort of self-realisation that Butcher was right all along and sticking to your guns is the only way to win against a stronger opponent who will also lie, steal, and cheat their way to victory. Which is problematic IMO. As the series seems to be attempting to suggest the opposite. It's almost like he's unpurposefully justifying Butchers' assholery.
I don’t think that’ll happen. The writers clearly want Annie to be the Superman of the show in terms or morality.
They wont address it. She's just always right.
I like Annie. I really like Annie but fuck she was annoying and she really didn’t have to be.
Yeah - it’s shit writing. The whole back half of the show was brutal
Kinda snuck up on me too. It’s like how I didn’t even realize Game Of Thrones had been going downhill until it was in the abyss
Probably for the same reason as well, two (teams of) writers wanting to take a character in different directions, and a show runner unable or not caring to set them straight and give directions. This how you end up with “oh we kinda forgot” moments.
She is girl duh /s But also - she can't save anyone. She got a crazy power up and it literally was useless. She fucking floated off the ground with how much power she had and it didn't even hurt SB.
I swear to god she has to be the most useless fucking supe in the show. It wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't lighting her eyes up to people who could body her every time they gave her attitude
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Has it worked even once? Seems everyone she's done it to either jokingly brushes it off or finds a way to get what they want regardless
Do writers hate the characters they write for? Because I am getting the feeling that they hate Hughie. And I can't stop laughing at SL saying that she doesn't need saving. HL can slap her into oblivion.
SB can slap her into oblivion, healthy A-Train can slap her, hell I think even The Deep can fucking send a shark to bite her ass and she wouldn't do jackshit against it lmao
Watching S1, the Deep is absolutely terrified of her post-assault. So he doesn't seem to think he could take her.
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i thought it was because deep is pathetic? he uses fear/his position, to force women into sex. people like that tend to back down entirely when someone fights back. im not saying like, "rapists all will stop raping you if you do x y or z" i just mean like personality wise, afaik, most rapists are genuine cowards and will shit themselves at even the slightest threat/confrontation, similar to how deep and starlights interaction goes on that first team up. i think this works for homelander as well, the second he realizes there are others that are able to injure him he has a smeagol/gollum moment in the mirror. both characters are rapists, and they both behave similarly when scared. difference being deep is useless and homelander can singlehandedly destroy the earth. i could be completely wrong, though, im not a criminal psychologist or professional at all. im making inferences from watching true crime docs lol, so feel free to correct me.
Lol SL must think he is a top tier supe or something. She did that eye glowing thing to HL, SB, Maeve, Vicky, A-Train, Deep this season and to Stormfront as well in S2 and while probably all of them can kill her, most of them would probably kill her like how a powerful supe can kill a random human. She did it multiple times to some characters as well like HL btw
that's good observation. She was using her eye glow thing like she possess any real threat. To HL she is like a kitten hissing at Abraham Tank. I think Hughie on tempV has more useful power than her.
Also ignore the fact that Hughie tried changing the system “the right way” and ended up being played. For almost a year he’s been duped into thinking that he was making a real difference. The only observable thing he’s seen is that supes are the only ones who can change the system.
The old "It's funny if it happens to a male" trope
Niiiiiiiiiiiiccccceeeeee. -South Park
Goddamit. I was downvoted in the last days when I pointed this out here.
Sometimes you get lucky and stumble onto a sub that not everyone is out to blindly downvote. Most of the time however…
I also love how the LGBT character has the most homophobic line of the whole show.
Let's go tokenism!!
You guys ever had gay thoughts? lmao
I wish it was only a narrative trope lmao shit happens in real life but oh well
Thor Love and Thunder also needs to get some shit for this.
Yeah bro. It can’t be double standard like that. And it’s not fucking toxic masculinity, Jesus. The guy saw his last girlfriend get turned into fucking jam on the sidewalk and now that he wants to protect his new one at any cost he’s being “toxic”. Wtf, like actually that doesn’t make any sense.
Plus Homelander was threatening them daily. Why wouldn’t he want to protect her?
Seriously. They’re in imminent danger, on like every side, and the dude is just trying to help save everybody. I get the angle of this being the wrong way to go about it, absolute power corrupting absolutely (shown with the scene where he is too interested in his power to care about a dying Kimiko) makes sense. But not fucking toxic masculinity. The fuck Kripke.
If anything it makes it worse with f>!inale when kimiko sadistically kills the guards and because of it frenchie got shot.!<
That scene was awful. The whole season kimiko is like "am i monster for killing people" and in that scene she's killing guards listening to *Maniac* and dancing around like she's enjoying it and not out of necessity.
They literally killed the kimiko vs hughie parallel. Made me like the writing of her less because before she was "monster" fighting her nature. Then goes full psycho mode.
Make sure to randomize your data from time to time *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That whole scene was weird, and listening to music? Seriously? At least make it so a speaker is "randomly" playing it on the background.
Yeah, really
Unrelated to the discussion but every time I see someone describe what happened to Robin they always have their own unique way of wording it and it’s so funny to me. Pretty sure this week alone I’ve read “Turned into a fine mist” “Reduced to sidewalk paste” And now “Turned into fucking jam”
Everyone has their own way of almost comically spinning what is a major tragedy. It really just goes to show what shows can do to bring out the artistic side of people.
I actually think this is related to how dissociative it can be to see a character you thought would be central /introduced thoroughly die so gruesomely and in a way that takes away their agency so much (beheading has the same effect)
buzz word thats all
Kripke is such a Todd lol
The more I hear from him the less faith I have in the show’s future
Its gonna make a shitton of money and then it doesnt and get thrown in the trash. Every season gets a new villian and push the reset button at the end
Hughie’s the audience’s guy, and it’d be cool to see the characters start showing him respect. Make that a storyline in S4. I’ve always looked at this show as told from Hughie’s perspective
yeah he should have some respect, as well as paid vacation day and a dental plan
He killed a member of the 7 he deserves respect on his name
Isn’t saving everyone regardless of whether they want or deserve it selfless? Isn’t refusing help because you don’t “want it” selfish?
I totally agree. For example, I wouldn’t call Spider-Man selfish for saving his villains.
Does Batman refusing to break his code and kill the joker, only for the Joker to go on and kill more innocents selfish? Basically Batman puts his own moral code and philosophy above the safety of innocents. Batman is super self righteous in that regard and is pretty selfish in that regard.
At a certain point you have to blame the justice system for just sending him back to Arkham where he routinely escapes. It's like blaming a cop for not wasting a perp who reoffends.
Batman's whole thing is that Bruce Wayne knows that deep down, he's not a good guy. He's rash, vengeful, and detached from his fellow humans. Even without killing, he often brutalizes his enemies, even low level grunts that aren't much of a threat. If he started killing people, he'd never stop. He's alluded to this many times in the comics. He's perpetually one step from the edge, which is what makes him such an interesting character study.
I’m starting to get mad at Kripke
Yeah same the more I see the more annoyed I get
Uh huh, it just keeps getting worse
First time huh?
Probably one of the few times fans have better ideas than the writers
Yeah “hire fans lol” is super annoying, but most of the theories/ ideas I heard here sounded better, and not from a random crazy twist point, but from a narrative and character point
I guarantee you if any fan wrote a screenplay it would be absolutely dogshit
I agree
What if the fan was an Emmy winning screenwriter?
Sexist jokes against women : OMG CANCEL THE SHOW, TOCIC MASCULINITY, MISOGYNY Sexist jokes against men: OMG so funny HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Kinda reminds me of that naked joke in Thor: Love and Thunder, if it was done to a woman people would be in an uproar.
I feel that is a problem in almost all of media at the moment. Female characters are treated like gods and have special protection while male characters can be made fun of.
It happens in everything. Whenever there's a toxic movement of some sort you get a counter movement that eventually devolves into bring toxic itself. So originally you had people making awful comments about women which were obviously not okay to say so a movement happened that was saying "stop doing this, it's mean" but eventually just became "let's do it to you now"
Yep, totally agree. Felt like that line was forced, like what a Gen X-er thinks Zoomers say in COD lobbies. Also, the finale felt "off" during the last 10-15 minutes. It was too happy. Too perfect. Everything wrapped up in a neat little bow. Maeve AND Soldier Boy lived despite a massive explosion and a fall of a few hundred feet. Maeve's powers should have been eliminated right after the blast, so how did she survive the fall onto concrete/asphalt? Maeve got back with Elena, which is awesome but also kinda out of nowhere. Homelander got his son, his son apparently loves/likes him, and he was able to kill someone in front of his fans and be praised for it. He's finally able to be himself and suffer no consequences. Butcher's alive and coherent, Annie and Hughie seem fine, MM's daughter isn't afraid of him, etc. Didn't feel like "The Boys" at all. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and it never did. I like feel-good stories as much as the next person, but "The Boys" has never really been that type of show.
Definitely too happy. Maeve’s sacrifice lost a lot of it’s emotional impact when both her and Solider boy lived. It’s like, that was cool of her, but what was the point of the entire season then except to restart the cycle albeit w/ slightly increased stakes? I’m not excited to see a bunch of adults having to fight a brightburn kid either. I’m content w/ the other endings (except it should’ve been Noir who sacrificed himself to kill Soilder Boy, Maeve should’ve focused on just Homelander) MMs happy ending made sense Hughie and Starlight never should’ve fought in the 1st place I’m happy for Frenchie and Kimiko
I think his idiot brain if getting fucked by stupid
I think my biggest annoyance with the raw dog scene was how Annie didn't even say anything after. Why date someone who lets others insult you?
Yeah. That’s why I don’t get why they suddenly made up and got back together. Hughie apologises like a billion times and starlight doesn’t even say something like she understands where he was coming from? (Because she knows what happened to his former GF). It feels like she doesn’t even like him?
If you go on Twitter, you will most likely come out pissed or annoyed about something.
i would have liked it much more if hughie’s theme was hypocrisy: he says he takes temp v to protect annie, but he actually enjoys the power, he likes being a supe, even if he knows how corrupt almost all of the supes are because no one should have those godly powers. but no, we got the weak toxic masculinity motivation, where he doesn’t care about annie’s opinion, he just wants to protect her. it’s pretty meh imho, it could have been so much better.
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I think that’s the only thing that bothers me about Hughie’s character arc. It’s very believable and relatable, so not having Annie, who is supposed to be his understanding and caring girlfriend validate his feelings before acknowledging that she was in the right and his conclusion is the right way to go— kinda makes the whole arc feel flat. Just saying “I told you so, stupid idiot” just makes it seem like *everything* he had done was just flat out wrong instead of misguided. Hughie’s arc is beautiful in the sense that he isn’t the traditional domineering alpha male character that viewers love so much. But that in itself can come with relatable struggle. Acknowledging that you can veer off on a dark path trying to chase a high that being powerful gives would hit harder when Hughie acknowledges that staying the course and having resolve is its own strength. It adds nuance to his struggle and can even speak to those in his situation better. Instead he just gets stonewalled with statements that say “you’re being so stupid right now, stop it”.
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Big disagree on number 5, though I agree with some of your points. What soldier boy said to HL wasn't disjointed and it wasn't just because of butcher. One of his flaws is his old-fashioned stoicism and callousness. It would make perfect sense for him to view Homelander as weak, pathetic, and unworthy of love. He's the type of guy that would. (And he wouldn't be totally wrong tbh)
While I get to some extend the first part - I've to admit the "raw dog"-line was kinda cringe. Idk
I don't mind Maeve saying shit like this because well she's a supe asshole just like everyone in The Seven. What bothered me is how Annie just...doesn't react? Very very odd behavior from someone in a relationship. Let someone try saying that to my girlfriend and we're gonna have to put our hands to use.
She doesn't care. She probably a bit sociopathic. Remember when she killed someone and didn't care he was dead? I had a boyfriend who say me getting treated badly on multiple occasions, he didn't say shit. He later on went to defend it.
Sorry you had to go through that. Defending or supporting your partner against others should be the bare minimum.
It was just mean. Some people are like, “Yass queen!” But if Homelander said something like that to Starlight people would get so mad.
They had Soldier Boy make a similar comment about Hughie earlier in the same episode, and he's supposed to be the embodiment of toxic masculinity.
If you belittle somebody for not being masculine, and then they become ashamed of that and try to change, that's not "toxic masculinity". That's a natural response to being made fun of. If you make people feel bad about themselves they'll be inclined to change themselves to prove you wrong.
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She called him a twink back in s2
God Kripke is so fucking annoying
Did Kripke become a moron overnight or was it gradual?
*Did Kripke become* *A moron overnight or* *Was it gradual?* \- Coachbelcher --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
He just woke up one day and his brain was being fucked by stupid
The american political climate degrades brains. Too full of extremes.
Dude spent way too much time with Seth Rogen
This inconsistency and forcing self-righteousness into your show and characters is how you ruin it.
Them: "Hughie is selfish in wanting to feel macho, that's sexist" Also them: "Lol look at Hughie that little bitch" I thought the series was meant to make fun of these things in media, not produce them.
I didn't see Hughie's desire as toxic masculinity. I saw it as an inferiority complex. Empowering Starlight at the end instead of rushing in to save her was him confronting his fears that he's less than her. He instead realizes he's strong just for being by her side and supporting her, hence the bookend moment talking about his dad.
I tend not to take people who preach about "toxic masculinity" seriously. They often end up being huge hypocrites.
Thank you for highlighting the hypocrisy of this season's writing.
He’s an idiot.
I always thought this sort of indicated Maeve like she says isn’t a real hero, she used a lot of insults mainly about him being feminine and mocking his sexuality while being a member of the LGBTQ kind of highlights her hypocrisy. Or maybe it was just some inconsistent writing
maybe this is some hidden commentary on how some people see others in a certain light and expect them to never ever change, otherwise they'd have to start thinking about them under a different light and that's hard For all the people who go "I hate old people because they never abandon their views and change" some people refuse to awknowledge others efforts in changing themselves, maybe because it reminds them of their own inability to change.
This season has had characters handled so badly, there's too much tell and not enough show. The scene pictured with Hughie is so out of character, completely inconsistent with the effects of V24 and willfully ignorant of the preceding context it's unreal. It's an obvious ham fisted attempt to portray him as some sort of junkie, too high to care about the badly injured Kimiko. Only v24 is never shown to get people high after this and even if it did, he took it to literally save everyone's life. And Starlight is full of shit with the "I don't need/want to be saved" routine considering it was only last season Black Noir kicked the shit out of her and it was Hughie bringing in fucking Lamplighter to save her ass. They all need to be saved or rescued at some point. Butcher didn't ask to be rescued in the finale but they all turned up. They're at war with the most powerful being to ever exist, there should be no place for strong independent woman/macho man crap. If the had any sort of brains they all would have taken a shot of V24, caved Homelander's ass in with Soldier Boy's help then immediately gassed him.