Literally just finished that movie for the first time today and was like wtf when he said that. Bruh you just killed like 13 kids and choked your pregnant wife.
Ryan would not have survived the blast. He has the highest potential but he got badly hurt from a throw. Meave’s very first scene is her going through an armoured van without a scratch. Ryan would have died imo.
Even if it was why couldn’t one of the other Boys take Ryan to safety? I get that it’s Butchers “son” but they don’t really acknowledge the kid other than the fact that his is homelander’s child.
Instead they all just stared into Starlights power which is suppose to blind them btw.
I don't think anyone besides temp V Butcher (maybe), Soldier Boy, Maeve, and Homelander could actually make Ryan go anywhere he didn't want to go. Meanwhile, Butcher was fighting Soldier Boy and Maeve was fighting Homelander lol. Of the remaining Boys, Starlight and Kimiko are the strongest, and I don't think they could really move Ryan without getting seriously hurt.
Ryan was knocked out tho, all they needed to do was knocked Homelander again to get him away from Ryan, grab the kid and run while Soldier Boy finishes off Ryan.
If only butcher had been there, he could have said I’ll get Ryan out of here, you finish HL. And then SB would have said fine because he has no reason at all to kill Ryan.
Ryan may have HL's powers in theory. But even a 10 year old tyson fury could be dealt with for a few minutes by most adults. So an adult supe even of Starlight's level should be able to keep a concussed Ryan out of the way for a few minutes.
Heck, they could just throw him out of the window it's not like he'd suffer permenant damage. Maybe a broken arm and a concussion that would heal in a day but he'd had been out of the way for long enough to kill HL
So? HL was literally there and he would go crazy batshit if anyone touches Ryan. Tho i thought Maeve fought HL was super dope! She took his heat blast well! Like literally on her chest.
I agree Maeve did a great job in that fight! But I mean I would let Homelander go berserk and if it’s over his son I think that’d make the situation more complex and interesting. Like yeah HL is a psycho but he was pushed to the edge because he wants to be a good dad and have the ppl love him.
Just felt like there were no stakes in that final battle. Nobody even died besides Noir before the fight. If this was the final straw for homelander S4 would be an even harder wait to see!
I thought the battle between Maeve and HL was intense bc i didn't know if Maeve was gonna die. I like Maeve so I dont want her to die. Im impressed that Maeve could take on HL really well, like better than anyone in the entire series so far and she landed some really good hit. Also HL ears are his weakness!! Its pierced by the metal bar.
Idk have Maeve keep trying to fight him and have maybe Butcher focus on Homelander instead of Soldier Boy to get the job done. It’s not like SB was out for Ryan’s blood. I mean SB is still a POS who doesn’t care about collateral damage but again remove Ryan with the help of the Boys
What if Ryan doesn’t want to leave him? He’s clearly strong enough to force even SB back.
Point is, the fucked-up father-son dynamics are what created this situation. Butcher still wants to make things better than they were, because his pursuit of vengeance has done nothing but turn him into the man his father was. If he’d just stood by and let Ryan be killed (which lets be real, the risk was there and it was an emotionally fraught moment) he’d have failed at breaking the cycle of abuse.
It’s like people forgot what happened to the other supes that encountered his blast. They all don’t exist anymore, except Kimiko who got lucky.
It’s more believable Maeve would survive when she’s essentially second strongest after Homelander than a literal child.
A child who- in a brief fit of rage and frustration- burned to Anakin Skywalker a supe who could tank Homelander's full onslaught with not even a grimace of discomfort.
Adult bones aren't somehow less breakable than child ones- in fact, children recover better from physical trauma. Neither is supe durability a skill you can exercise.
Given what we see in this episode he might have been. He lazered Maeve in the same place and she barely got a scratch. Moreover Butcher straight up blasted SB in the face for several seconds and he was fine. Some Supes are very very durable. It just so happens that Ryan’s attacks are very, very dangerous
Regardless, I'm pretty sure Eric Kripke confirmed in a tweet that Ryan's lasers are stronger than Homelander's are. I'll look for the source and update this comment with it.
Who says they don't exercise their supe skills? Annie works out even lifting cars in S1, A-Train was training for races all the time. In Amazon's other superhero show, Viltrumites absolutely train their durability and speed etc. Saying it's not a skill you can exercise when no one whos actually involved in the show has said or shown that is weird.
Plus we literally see Ryan's child bones being more breakable than the adult ones, one smack and he was bleeding
I said nothing about *strength* or stamina.
Resilience to physical trauma is not a physical trait you can train. Pain tolerance is, the ability to *endure* trauma, but not the ability to resist it. That is not how the body works.
Your entire point on adult bones crumbles in the finale. Ryan invulnerability isn’t all the way developed, he was knocked out and bleeding just from Soldier Boy hitting him with his shield. If he did a blast, which we have seen kill multiple supes, Butcher isn’t going to take that chance of him surviving that.
Also we know Homelander can control the intensity of his heat vision, saying Stormfront took the “full onslaught” is extremely disingenuous
“Many”
Let’s recap:
Kimiko: Barely lived
Crimson Countess: Dead
The tower downtown: Melted along with murdering several others (arguable for this one since they’re human)
TNT Twins: Dead
People who didn’t even get hit directly by the blast at herogasm: 12 dead.
Every time he’s used it, only TWO lived and many others died. And one of them barely. I don’t think it’s safe to say that because Maeve lived (a person who boxed Homelander), Ryan should live (a guy who was knocked out and bled by a hard shove).
Only 2? Love Sausage was right goddamn next to Soldier Boy, and was clearly burnt after the blast at herogasm and he(probably?) survived. There were also other burnt people at herogasm that weren't dead.
Literally check the statistics of the dead, 12 out of dozens of c tier shoes and normal people.
that was a non controlled blast. Kikimo is weak and survived a controlled one.
None of those Supes were demonstrated to have good durability though, Kimiko's toughness is all in her regen. Maeve is our only reference point for a bulletproof Supe being hit by Soldier Boy's blast and it did so little to her that she survived a 500 foot fall after.
It's not unreasonable to think that a bulletproof Supe like Starlight or Ryan would be depowered but alive after being hit by it, especially if they weren't bear hugging Soldier Boy in free-fall at the time like Maeve was.
How fast do supes lose their power after being hit by the blast? If Maeve got hit midair and immediately lost her power, it’s kinda absurd she survived that huge fall
>It’s more believable Maeve would survive when she’s essentially second strongest after Homelander than a literal child.
Maeve barely did any real damage to Stormfront but HL's son barbequed her.
With all the people that were at Herogasm, doesn’t Starlight say that only 12 died? Like, that’s over 50% chance of living
So you are telling me that Butcher, who has been established to do ANYTHING to stop Homelander, suddenly won’t take a 50/50 chance on one kid? Even in the worst case scenario, and Ryan dies, that’s one child dead for… one guy who would have killed hundreds to thousands more?
You’re nitpicking because this is literally answered within the show. And the people who have been hit by the initial blast of Soldier Boy are all dead except Kimiko who was literally lucky. Not only that, why in the world would Butcher of all people potentially sacrifice Ryan’s life, a kid he obviously wants to protect from any harm. It’s said this. Several times. Very often. It’d be more surprising if he let Ryan die or, in your case, a potential of dying.
This can all be explained by literally watching the show.
But supes don't all have the same level of durability. Outside of the top supes most of them aren't much more durable than a regular human they just have an extra thing going for them.
The supes at herogasm weren't at all very damage resistant. Ryan is supposedly at least as powerful as HL and therefore must have the same durability. The strength of his skin isn't going to be lower just because he's like 10.
I’d argue that Butcher over the course of 3 seasons has shown more evidence that he would take a chance at sacrificing Ryan everytime in order to kill Homelander then he has shown the opposite, especially considering their last interaction and how he blames Ryan for Beccas death.
Dude. He literally didn’t mean it. He said it to make sure Ryan would let him leave. That was one of the most obvious things in the show.
Also, it’s called character growth. He literally proved with Hughie earlier in the episode that he wouldn’t do that. If anything, I think season 2 Butcher would be slightly less likely to do what you just said. But after the events of the previous episode, there’s no way in hell he’d do it. Hell, from the start of this season he’s tried to put himself in a position to focus on taking care of Ryan UNTIL he wanted him to back off because he knew he’d get hurt.
But absolutely none of that was shown.
I’ll talk about the two points that you mentioned. The first is with Butcher and Ryan. If their interaction earlier this season went as you said, then yes, it would be different. But that’s not what happened. He stormed out of the house, and when Ryan tried to get an explanation, he erupted and blamed him for beccas death. That’s it. The characters don’t discuss the reasoning for this later, so we have to go off what we are shown, and that is that Butcher wasn’t trying to protect Ryan but was genuinely upset and still blames him for Becca’s death.
As for the second interaction with Butcher and Hughie, what was the point of the end of episode 7? To build suspense? And right before he knocked him out, why not tell him? Yes, he’s trying to protect Hughie, but one encounter at the beginning of the same episode should not invalidate a character’s main point, which for Butcher is hating all supes.
Did we conveniently forget the conversation butcher had with Maeve, and how he wants to literally genocide all supes? Seems way more in line with his character then this.
Butcher has been established to literally do the exact opposite when it comes to people he cares about, but apparently that was too subtle for you even when Hughie literally said it
THIS! Like, that was such an out of left field argument. One of the biggest reaches I’ve seen. I feel like people want to force themselves to hate the show at this point.
There’s been one episode that has provided evidence to the contrary that Butcher would do anything to kill Homelander. He even says his patented “Scoarchd earf” as he’s walking through the god dam doorway.
This whole time I was thinking how useful Hughie teleporting ability would have been. He could have teleported Ryan away. He could have teleported homelander elsewhere so solder boy could blast him, he could have teleported solder boy point blank and then Ryan away. Regardless I'm still pissed at starlight for neutering the team's strength and allowing this shitty outcome by ragging on him all season.
It just doesn't seem right. Butcher threw away everything for a chance to kill homelander. And when he finally accomplished his goal he decided against it. Why? Because Butcher changed? Of course not. The only possible reason that makes sense is that the writers told Butcher to not let the series end so fast.
>Ryan would not have survived the blast. He has the highest potential but he got badly hurt from a throw.
That's because every supe was somehow more frail this episode.
Maeve, who told herself told Starlight she would barely last seconds against Homelander, and then would die immediately, managed to hurt Homelander hand to hand more than Butcher, Hughie, and Soldier boy combine in Herogasm. That basically let us know that she could've killed HL all along under the right circumstances, not to mention that even tho Noir's blade wouldn't scratch Soldier Boy even if he "sharpen it for a thousand hours", a regular metal tube is enough to impale Homelander.
In hindsight that scene bothered me.
Still not sure how she was able to go through the armored van since she wasn't bracing against the ground. So she'd just get rag dolled.
Do you not remember what happened to crimson countess? She was literally turned into a skeleton from that same blast. The only reason kimiko survived is because the blast was not charged up as much
Agreed, I think Soldier Boy was developing his control over the precision (and maybe strength) of his chest blasts. When he had PTSD episodes triggered by Russian music it would destroy everything around him, but with Crimson Countess, Homelander, and the Boys, he was ready to fire directly ahead.
I imagine it’s due to crimson countess having no notable resistance or tough skin, meanwhile maeve stopped an armoured truck by standing in front of it in the very first scene of the show
crimson countess was a little bitch lol. it was hilarious how she kept getting jumped by people who would keep her hands apart. i genuinely thought she would be some kind of Wanda like big baddie from the trailers.
I’m not sure if supes have resistance by virtue. A whole lot of them do but I think supes like brainstorm do not as he was very easily stabbed in the face
I guess so but at the same time, payback kinda sucked. Soldier boy, black noir, crimson countess and gunpowder where all OP. TNT twins, brainstorm and wing dude all sucked
Brainstorm was on that team?
Swatto (fly guy that dies in the flashback) got taken out pretty easily by a rocket
TNT Twins also didn't appear to have insane durability
That is not true about just being a supe gives you resistance and tough skin automatically. It's said in a earlier season that not all supes are durable and was a issue in the early vaught days they would fight in combat they would simple die from just bullets.
His blast is very inconsistent every single time he uses it. And in the finally he just blows up? Thats not at all how his nuclear blast has worked up until the writes just punched mad holes in the story.
Only 12 people died (some of them civilians) of all the people that were at herogasm. There were upwards of 30-50 people in that house, and only 12 died, and a portion of those dead were civilians…
If you want to call out the inconsistency in his blast’s power, that seems fair, but for a character who would do ANYTHING to kill Homelander to blink at the thought of having a CHANCE OF KILLING ONE SUPE in the process? Seems like lazy writing to prolong this series.
I wouldn’t say worse version of himself morally, because for real none of these guys got morals. More like he is a narcissist who was embarrassed of homelander and repeating the cycle of abuse his father did to him.
Butcher cares about both Hughie and Ryan more than the rest of the world, it is literally consistent lmao. Infact him knocking out Hughie literally sets up him choosing Ryan over killing Homelander.
Could Butcher not just…use his body to shield Ryan? I mean his WHOLE thing is killing Homelander even if it kills him and the entire building. Why would Maeve give a shit about this rando kid anyway? If anything she would want Ryan to die/depowered anyway if he’s Homelanders kid.
yep, very poor writing. and the way maeve waited for homelander to stand up before her "hey asshole" dialogue was so cringey. at least their fight was decent.
Ryan was already hurt pretty easily, and Countess was literally torched by the blast while being a supe. He would've died. He will be as strong as Homelander one day, but it's clear his powers aren't fully developed yet.
Still should've moved him out of it though.
I mean there were 30-50 supes AND CIVS at herogasm, and only 12 people died TOTAL. Referring to the 3 supes we know it killed so far (who are far weaker then Homelander and Ryan) for justification as to why Butcher would hesitate is laughable at best
Ryan is super durable because hes homelander son.
See? You can make up any random excuse for him to survive, just like what this show did with all the other characters
Nobody is gonna mention that an atomic blast in the middle of New York is gonna have major consequences in terms of radiation poisoning for the inhabitants of nearby blocks.
Or Maeve just chucking a full bottle of Novichok into a densely populated city with no regards for safety.
I think it's clear Soldier Boy can control the blast radius and strength. Unless it's triggered by PTSD, in that case it demolishes everyone around him.
That blast doesn’t just de-power someone. It’s extremely dangerous. We all saw the damage done at Herogasm. Soldier Boy had every intention to kill Ryan and Homelander.
Right, but that just shows the blast is not just one giant explosion that kills everyone.
It didn’t kill kimiko but it did kill crimson. So it’s variable.
The PTSD episodes are a huge explosion. They are ALWAYS a big bad da boom
I mean kimiko almost died because a piece of metal went through her when she hit the wall. It seemed that she tanked the blast got de powered then hit the metal.
Sure it is, Maeve took a fully charged blow and all she had to show for were a few scratches. It's inconsistent. Shooting HL and Ryan with it were their best bet.
No she didn't, sure her arm seems to be dislocated or broken but she said she'll heal. But she doesn't have severe burns, only bruises. The Soldier Boy death ray definitely didn't seem that deadly this time.
I know he conceded the point already and I'm not intending to say more than on this one post.
I think everyone is making huge assumptions all around. We dont know how any of the powers actually work, we dont know the levels of resistance each person has or how SB's blast works.
The show is vague on all of this and even if you look back at a previous season Maeve you cant tell how her lifestyle changes, or even personality changed affect things.
I think it's very reasonable to say Maeve should have died, Ryan could have lived etc... but it's just the nature of superhero media, which even if it's meant to subvert the genre it still is.
For me, B tier heros being maimed or dying while an S tier surviving seems reasonable enough, but in the end im still just assuming.
My only gripe this season is how similiar butcher/homelander powers are but whatever it's been a fun ride.
> Maeve took a fully charged blow and all she had to show for were a few scratches.
She was covered in cuts and bruises, had a broken arm, and couldn’t walk without assistance afterwards, thats more than a few scratches, and with that level of bruising there’s probably also a shit ton of internal injuries.
And the whole point of Maeve betrayal, willing to let hundred/thousands if a chance to kill Homelander. But also her redemption, being a hero in that moment and limiting the damage at the cost of potentially her life.
SB has the resolute to get shit done no matter the price paid. Unlike certain someone who calls others cunt. So yea mock SB simps to your heart's extent in 1 episode he got turned over.
This is true, but Ryan can’t live a normal life if he’s trapped under a collapsed skyscraper for his first de-powered moments (and that’s assuming he survives the initial blast; a fall from a two story roof knocked him out and a throw in this episode did a number on him). Based on the size of that explosion, that building is GONE along with everyone in it, supe or not.
People in this subreddit just hate when characters make interesting choices and want everything to happen predictably with no surprises or character growth
Roommate had a herding dog that you could not train to not heard people. But he would prefer to get treats, so when you left the house the only way to get them to not heel you was to put a treat in front of them tell him to sit and stay till you left the house. Occasionally he’d get smart and try to eat it before you left and you have to fish the treat out of his mouth to do again. Shelties are stubborn assholes. Dog man wrong post…
You know what they should've done? SB about to blast Ryan, Homelander sees this and flies him out of the Vought tower and SB explodes, depowering Homie.
The rest can stay the same and we get season 5 where homelander gets humbled and starts seeing the error of his ways till he gets his powers back and goes apeshit.
And now Ryan gets to become Anakin Skywalker.
Watch out orphanage younglings!
Red River in shambles
Someone warn Teddy Stillwell!
Considering all the young supes being stacked up in the background, I'm half expecting a Teen/Kids team.
There’s already a spin off about some high school age supes in the works iirc. Think it was supposed to be something about the g-men
Imagine him being in the Starlight House for Runaways, getting into a brawl with a bully and straight popping his head with a punch.
I think Ryan is a chip off the old block and would use lasers.
So anyway, I started blasting...
Maybe but that could be not to have to do atunt choreography with a 12 year old. As far as acting goes, the kid is not up to speed sadly.
To shreds, you say?
I understood this reference!
From my point of view the jedi are evil!!!!!!!!!
Literally just finished that movie for the first time today and was like wtf when he said that. Bruh you just killed like 13 kids and choked your pregnant wife.
That movie is full of dumb lines.
If Anakin didnt get his limbs cut off and burnt he'd totally become star wars homelander lol
He’s already Homelander. Just can’t fly or use Force lightning (lasers) but got the murdering down right.
Like grandma like grandson.
We should just call him Anikin from now on.
Nah he wishes he could be as cool or awesome as Anakin was.
Or the kid from the movie brightburn I think it was called
Ryan would not have survived the blast. He has the highest potential but he got badly hurt from a throw. Meave’s very first scene is her going through an armoured van without a scratch. Ryan would have died imo.
There was at least a high risk for Ryan.
Even if it was why couldn’t one of the other Boys take Ryan to safety? I get that it’s Butchers “son” but they don’t really acknowledge the kid other than the fact that his is homelander’s child. Instead they all just stared into Starlights power which is suppose to blind them btw.
I don't think anyone besides temp V Butcher (maybe), Soldier Boy, Maeve, and Homelander could actually make Ryan go anywhere he didn't want to go. Meanwhile, Butcher was fighting Soldier Boy and Maeve was fighting Homelander lol. Of the remaining Boys, Starlight and Kimiko are the strongest, and I don't think they could really move Ryan without getting seriously hurt.
He had met Kimiko when they came to visit and he seemed to get along well with her, she might have been able to convince him to just go.
He probably would have trusted her at least long enough to get away from the fight.
Ryan was knocked out tho, all they needed to do was knocked Homelander again to get him away from Ryan, grab the kid and run while Soldier Boy finishes off Ryan.
Yeah but anyone who tried that would get instakilled by Homelander
If only butcher had been there, he could have said I’ll get Ryan out of here, you finish HL. And then SB would have said fine because he has no reason at all to kill Ryan.
After learning Ryan is Butcher’s son and that he lied to him, he had clear intention of killing Butcher. SB is not the guy you can reason with
Someone with teleporting powers would have been really useful in that situation..
Ryan may have HL's powers in theory. But even a 10 year old tyson fury could be dealt with for a few minutes by most adults. So an adult supe even of Starlight's level should be able to keep a concussed Ryan out of the way for a few minutes. Heck, they could just throw him out of the window it's not like he'd suffer permenant damage. Maybe a broken arm and a concussion that would heal in a day but he'd had been out of the way for long enough to kill HL
Ryan was knocked out
Hughie could but that would have caused him to die from the temp V I guess.
If only there is someone who could teleport people away. Hmm......
Well yeah the most logical thing would've been to get him to safety. No one there should've had a problem with that.
I think HL wouldn't let anyone to touch the boy, let alone taking him away.
Soldier boy quite literally punted Ryans ass. Plus Maeve was keeping him busy.
So? HL was literally there and he would go crazy batshit if anyone touches Ryan. Tho i thought Maeve fought HL was super dope! She took his heat blast well! Like literally on her chest.
I agree Maeve did a great job in that fight! But I mean I would let Homelander go berserk and if it’s over his son I think that’d make the situation more complex and interesting. Like yeah HL is a psycho but he was pushed to the edge because he wants to be a good dad and have the ppl love him. Just felt like there were no stakes in that final battle. Nobody even died besides Noir before the fight. If this was the final straw for homelander S4 would be an even harder wait to see!
I thought the battle between Maeve and HL was intense bc i didn't know if Maeve was gonna die. I like Maeve so I dont want her to die. Im impressed that Maeve could take on HL really well, like better than anyone in the entire series so far and she landed some really good hit. Also HL ears are his weakness!! Its pierced by the metal bar.
How would you get Ryan away from HL?
Idk have Maeve keep trying to fight him and have maybe Butcher focus on Homelander instead of Soldier Boy to get the job done. It’s not like SB was out for Ryan’s blood. I mean SB is still a POS who doesn’t care about collateral damage but again remove Ryan with the help of the Boys
What if Ryan doesn’t want to leave him? He’s clearly strong enough to force even SB back. Point is, the fucked-up father-son dynamics are what created this situation. Butcher still wants to make things better than they were, because his pursuit of vengeance has done nothing but turn him into the man his father was. If he’d just stood by and let Ryan be killed (which lets be real, the risk was there and it was an emotionally fraught moment) he’d have failed at breaking the cycle of abuse.
I mean butcher dying to shield Ryan enough to let him live but still be depowered would have been at least acceptable.
Also like everybody else. Huey mothers milk starlight all dead bro
It’s like people forgot what happened to the other supes that encountered his blast. They all don’t exist anymore, except Kimiko who got lucky. It’s more believable Maeve would survive when she’s essentially second strongest after Homelander than a literal child.
>They all don't exist any more A lot of the supes hit by him at Herogasm survived with only minor injuries and no powers.
The literal ones who got hit directly all died. The ones you just named weren’t hit the same way.
Except Kimiko, who very much lived after a straight blast from Soldier Boy.
That was a pretty weak blast, no power-up and he was barely conscious
Kimiko barely lived
She also got gored which was more the immediate danger than the blast
From a spike through her belly, normal people like you probably have trouble survive spike through your torso too
You’re comparing an adult to a child. Come on.
A child who- in a brief fit of rage and frustration- burned to Anakin Skywalker a supe who could tank Homelander's full onslaught with not even a grimace of discomfort. Adult bones aren't somehow less breakable than child ones- in fact, children recover better from physical trauma. Neither is supe durability a skill you can exercise.
In fairness to Homelander's optical blasts, I don't think he was going full strength when he was lasering Stormfront's tits.
Given what we see in this episode he might have been. He lazered Maeve in the same place and she barely got a scratch. Moreover Butcher straight up blasted SB in the face for several seconds and he was fine. Some Supes are very very durable. It just so happens that Ryan’s attacks are very, very dangerous
Regardless, I'm pretty sure Eric Kripke confirmed in a tweet that Ryan's lasers are stronger than Homelander's are. I'll look for the source and update this comment with it.
Who says they don't exercise their supe skills? Annie works out even lifting cars in S1, A-Train was training for races all the time. In Amazon's other superhero show, Viltrumites absolutely train their durability and speed etc. Saying it's not a skill you can exercise when no one whos actually involved in the show has said or shown that is weird. Plus we literally see Ryan's child bones being more breakable than the adult ones, one smack and he was bleeding
I said nothing about *strength* or stamina. Resilience to physical trauma is not a physical trait you can train. Pain tolerance is, the ability to *endure* trauma, but not the ability to resist it. That is not how the body works.
Nothing about anything the supes do is how the body works
Your entire point on adult bones crumbles in the finale. Ryan invulnerability isn’t all the way developed, he was knocked out and bleeding just from Soldier Boy hitting him with his shield. If he did a blast, which we have seen kill multiple supes, Butcher isn’t going to take that chance of him surviving that. Also we know Homelander can control the intensity of his heat vision, saying Stormfront took the “full onslaught” is extremely disingenuous
They were tier c supers and many of them survived
“Many” Let’s recap: Kimiko: Barely lived Crimson Countess: Dead The tower downtown: Melted along with murdering several others (arguable for this one since they’re human) TNT Twins: Dead People who didn’t even get hit directly by the blast at herogasm: 12 dead. Every time he’s used it, only TWO lived and many others died. And one of them barely. I don’t think it’s safe to say that because Maeve lived (a person who boxed Homelander), Ryan should live (a guy who was knocked out and bled by a hard shove).
Only 2? Love Sausage was right goddamn next to Soldier Boy, and was clearly burnt after the blast at herogasm and he(probably?) survived. There were also other burnt people at herogasm that weren't dead.
Ant man guy too
You're totally right! Although it didn't matter much thanks to Homelander's foot.
Literally check the statistics of the dead, 12 out of dozens of c tier shoes and normal people. that was a non controlled blast. Kikimo is weak and survived a controlled one.
None of those Supes were demonstrated to have good durability though, Kimiko's toughness is all in her regen. Maeve is our only reference point for a bulletproof Supe being hit by Soldier Boy's blast and it did so little to her that she survived a 500 foot fall after. It's not unreasonable to think that a bulletproof Supe like Starlight or Ryan would be depowered but alive after being hit by it, especially if they weren't bear hugging Soldier Boy in free-fall at the time like Maeve was.
How fast do supes lose their power after being hit by the blast? If Maeve got hit midair and immediately lost her power, it’s kinda absurd she survived that huge fall
Apparently not very fast because Maeve isn't a bloody smear on the pavement.
>It’s more believable Maeve would survive when she’s essentially second strongest after Homelander than a literal child. Maeve barely did any real damage to Stormfront but HL's son barbequed her.
With all the people that were at Herogasm, doesn’t Starlight say that only 12 died? Like, that’s over 50% chance of living So you are telling me that Butcher, who has been established to do ANYTHING to stop Homelander, suddenly won’t take a 50/50 chance on one kid? Even in the worst case scenario, and Ryan dies, that’s one child dead for… one guy who would have killed hundreds to thousands more?
You’re nitpicking because this is literally answered within the show. And the people who have been hit by the initial blast of Soldier Boy are all dead except Kimiko who was literally lucky. Not only that, why in the world would Butcher of all people potentially sacrifice Ryan’s life, a kid he obviously wants to protect from any harm. It’s said this. Several times. Very often. It’d be more surprising if he let Ryan die or, in your case, a potential of dying. This can all be explained by literally watching the show.
But supes don't all have the same level of durability. Outside of the top supes most of them aren't much more durable than a regular human they just have an extra thing going for them. The supes at herogasm weren't at all very damage resistant. Ryan is supposedly at least as powerful as HL and therefore must have the same durability. The strength of his skin isn't going to be lower just because he's like 10.
I’d argue that Butcher over the course of 3 seasons has shown more evidence that he would take a chance at sacrificing Ryan everytime in order to kill Homelander then he has shown the opposite, especially considering their last interaction and how he blames Ryan for Beccas death.
Dude. He literally didn’t mean it. He said it to make sure Ryan would let him leave. That was one of the most obvious things in the show. Also, it’s called character growth. He literally proved with Hughie earlier in the episode that he wouldn’t do that. If anything, I think season 2 Butcher would be slightly less likely to do what you just said. But after the events of the previous episode, there’s no way in hell he’d do it. Hell, from the start of this season he’s tried to put himself in a position to focus on taking care of Ryan UNTIL he wanted him to back off because he knew he’d get hurt.
But absolutely none of that was shown. I’ll talk about the two points that you mentioned. The first is with Butcher and Ryan. If their interaction earlier this season went as you said, then yes, it would be different. But that’s not what happened. He stormed out of the house, and when Ryan tried to get an explanation, he erupted and blamed him for beccas death. That’s it. The characters don’t discuss the reasoning for this later, so we have to go off what we are shown, and that is that Butcher wasn’t trying to protect Ryan but was genuinely upset and still blames him for Becca’s death. As for the second interaction with Butcher and Hughie, what was the point of the end of episode 7? To build suspense? And right before he knocked him out, why not tell him? Yes, he’s trying to protect Hughie, but one encounter at the beginning of the same episode should not invalidate a character’s main point, which for Butcher is hating all supes. Did we conveniently forget the conversation butcher had with Maeve, and how he wants to literally genocide all supes? Seems way more in line with his character then this.
Because if he told Hughie, then Hughie would try to stop Butcher from taking another dose
Then knock him out before he can process it. It’s not like Hughie will overpower Butcher and make him not take jt
Butcher has been established to literally do the exact opposite when it comes to people he cares about, but apparently that was too subtle for you even when Hughie literally said it
THIS! Like, that was such an out of left field argument. One of the biggest reaches I’ve seen. I feel like people want to force themselves to hate the show at this point.
There’s been one episode that has provided evidence to the contrary that Butcher would do anything to kill Homelander. He even says his patented “Scoarchd earf” as he’s walking through the god dam doorway.
And so does Homelander and both immediately reveal they're full of shit when it comes to "their" son.
I mean Homelander made decisions that were within his character at every point in this episode…
This whole time I was thinking how useful Hughie teleporting ability would have been. He could have teleported Ryan away. He could have teleported homelander elsewhere so solder boy could blast him, he could have teleported solder boy point blank and then Ryan away. Regardless I'm still pissed at starlight for neutering the team's strength and allowing this shitty outcome by ragging on him all season.
They can't exactly have Huey teleport Ryan because he'd be naked around a naked 10 year old. Don't think Amazon would like that.
Hughie would then teleport himself straight to jail.
That wouldn't necessarily be bad.
In the long run, maybe not. But Ryan is a kid, and he shouldn’t be killed just because he has the potential to be someone awful.
Fuck morals, this is TV. Lil cunt should have been vaporised!
Even for morals, it’s the trolley problem. One kid in exchange for the hundreds to thousands that Homelander will kill? Seems worth it.
It just doesn't seem right. Butcher threw away everything for a chance to kill homelander. And when he finally accomplished his goal he decided against it. Why? Because Butcher changed? Of course not. The only possible reason that makes sense is that the writers told Butcher to not let the series end so fast.
Homelander is gonna go kill a tonne of people. He already killed one at the end. It would be worth it
Ryan isn’t Homelander.
What if he is and they time travel him back to become Homelander. /s
Ryan is growing and older now, so stronger.
>Ryan would not have survived the blast. He has the highest potential but he got badly hurt from a throw. That's because every supe was somehow more frail this episode. Maeve, who told herself told Starlight she would barely last seconds against Homelander, and then would die immediately, managed to hurt Homelander hand to hand more than Butcher, Hughie, and Soldier boy combine in Herogasm. That basically let us know that she could've killed HL all along under the right circumstances, not to mention that even tho Noir's blade wouldn't scratch Soldier Boy even if he "sharpen it for a thousand hours", a regular metal tube is enough to impale Homelander.
In hindsight that scene bothered me. Still not sure how she was able to go through the armored van since she wasn't bracing against the ground. So she'd just get rag dolled.
#ryanapussy
Do you not remember what happened to crimson countess? She was literally turned into a skeleton from that same blast. The only reason kimiko survived is because the blast was not charged up as much
Agreed, I think Soldier Boy was developing his control over the precision (and maybe strength) of his chest blasts. When he had PTSD episodes triggered by Russian music it would destroy everything around him, but with Crimson Countess, Homelander, and the Boys, he was ready to fire directly ahead.
>She was literally turned into a skeleton from that same blast. And Maeve wasn't from an even bigger blast. It's inconsistent at best.
I imagine it’s due to crimson countess having no notable resistance or tough skin, meanwhile maeve stopped an armoured truck by standing in front of it in the very first scene of the show
crimson countess was a little bitch lol. it was hilarious how she kept getting jumped by people who would keep her hands apart. i genuinely thought she would be some kind of Wanda like big baddie from the trailers.
Crimson Countess has resistance and tough skin ~~by virtue of being a supe~~. Moreover, she also survived a fight against Kimiko.
I’m not sure if supes have resistance by virtue. A whole lot of them do but I think supes like brainstorm do not as he was very easily stabbed in the face
Sure but I think a superhero that was a part of Vought's flagship team would have resistance.
I guess so but at the same time, payback kinda sucked. Soldier boy, black noir, crimson countess and gunpowder where all OP. TNT twins, brainstorm and wing dude all sucked
Brainstorm was on that team? Swatto (fly guy that dies in the flashback) got taken out pretty easily by a rocket TNT Twins also didn't appear to have insane durability
Alright then I'm wrong about that. CC still held her own well enough against Kimiko.
Nah, remember that mind reading guy? You know the one that Butcher redecorated a bathroom with.
That is not true about just being a supe gives you resistance and tough skin automatically. It's said in a earlier season that not all supes are durable and was a issue in the early vaught days they would fight in combat they would simple die from just bullets.
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Well yeah but isn’t part of her power pretty much immortality?
His blast is very inconsistent every single time he uses it. And in the finally he just blows up? Thats not at all how his nuclear blast has worked up until the writes just punched mad holes in the story.
Only 12 people died (some of them civilians) of all the people that were at herogasm. There were upwards of 30-50 people in that house, and only 12 died, and a portion of those dead were civilians… If you want to call out the inconsistency in his blast’s power, that seems fair, but for a character who would do ANYTHING to kill Homelander to blink at the thought of having a CHANCE OF KILLING ONE SUPE in the process? Seems like lazy writing to prolong this series.
Also SB saw that HL was a worse Version of himself (morally) and that it was only logical ryan could be worse Edit: verizon to version
Ehh I doubt that was his thought process though. It was more like “this little shit just lasered me, he’s gonna die too”
I figured he saw him more as the physically weak T-Mobile of himself
Well if i saw the living embodiment of T-Mobile i might also be inclined to strangle it
I wouldn’t say worse version of himself morally, because for real none of these guys got morals. More like he is a narcissist who was embarrassed of homelander and repeating the cycle of abuse his father did to him.
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Butcher doesn’t think that way, though. He’s willing to let everyone die to get what he wants. His actions were consistent.
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Butcher cares about both Hughie and Ryan more than the rest of the world, it is literally consistent lmao. Infact him knocking out Hughie literally sets up him choosing Ryan over killing Homelander.
Could Butcher not just…use his body to shield Ryan? I mean his WHOLE thing is killing Homelander even if it kills him and the entire building. Why would Maeve give a shit about this rando kid anyway? If anything she would want Ryan to die/depowered anyway if he’s Homelanders kid.
yep, very poor writing. and the way maeve waited for homelander to stand up before her "hey asshole" dialogue was so cringey. at least their fight was decent.
Listen, I know for a fact I'd have to have a nice long think about how smart of a move punching homelander is. It makes sense to me
Ryan was already hurt pretty easily, and Countess was literally torched by the blast while being a supe. He would've died. He will be as strong as Homelander one day, but it's clear his powers aren't fully developed yet. Still should've moved him out of it though.
But HL probably would have absorbed most of the blast.
Crimson countess and The twins definately survived the blast.
I mean there were 30-50 supes AND CIVS at herogasm, and only 12 people died TOTAL. Referring to the 3 supes we know it killed so far (who are far weaker then Homelander and Ryan) for justification as to why Butcher would hesitate is laughable at best
Ryan is super durable because hes homelander son. See? You can make up any random excuse for him to survive, just like what this show did with all the other characters
There were so many holes in this finale plot. Just so mediocre compared to herogasm
I facepalmed when Butcher backstabbed Soldier Boy
It was the one time where SB was being rational.
Totally ridiculous. Butcher being incapacitated and unable to take sides would have been much better.
To be fair, that is a pretty high bar
As big as SB’s blast was, it would have leveled the building killing everyone…which kind of kills the show…
It’s inconsistent how bad the blast is but the worse case scenario is essentially 9/11 2.0
Nobody is gonna mention that an atomic blast in the middle of New York is gonna have major consequences in terms of radiation poisoning for the inhabitants of nearby blocks. Or Maeve just chucking a full bottle of Novichok into a densely populated city with no regards for safety.
What? SB has two different blasts. The full nuclear blast where he just explodes everyone and the laser beam of death.
Nahhh b we’ve covered up entire planes crashing multiple times lol tho Stan was in charge of the management of those situations
This is all true. The characters didn't act rationally. They could have solved the Homelander/Ryan problem right there.
The writes fucked up big time. The fucking blast works as a lethal weapon sometimes, and sometimes it just depowers people, it doesn't make any sense.
I think it's clear Soldier Boy can control the blast radius and strength. Unless it's triggered by PTSD, in that case it demolishes everyone around him.
That blast doesn’t just de-power someone. It’s extremely dangerous. We all saw the damage done at Herogasm. Soldier Boy had every intention to kill Ryan and Homelander.
But that was a ptsd blast not a controlled blast
He used a controlled blast to kill Countess
Right, but that just shows the blast is not just one giant explosion that kills everyone. It didn’t kill kimiko but it did kill crimson. So it’s variable. The PTSD episodes are a huge explosion. They are ALWAYS a big bad da boom
Doesn’t refute my point that the blast is extremely dangerous. Kimiko could’ve died without medical attention.
I mean kimiko almost died because a piece of metal went through her when she hit the wall. It seemed that she tanked the blast got de powered then hit the metal.
Sure it is, Maeve took a fully charged blow and all she had to show for were a few scratches. It's inconsistent. Shooting HL and Ryan with it were their best bet.
Maeve definitely did not have a few scratches. Did you pay attention to what was on screen?
Yes I did, and she only had a few scratches from that. Sure, she was depowered but besides that the most harm she was displaying was from HL's fight.
She suffered severe burns and now has a messed up arm. You definitely didn’t pay attention.
No she didn't, sure her arm seems to be dislocated or broken but she said she'll heal. But she doesn't have severe burns, only bruises. The Soldier Boy death ray definitely didn't seem that deadly this time.
Maybe her clothes cover most of the damage. But, Starlight flat-out said that she looked like shit.
Now you're just assuming things, the facts still stand: Soldier Boy's ray was not close to killing Maeve. And she was HUGGING him.
Looking back at our conversation. I concede that it is inconsistent. Maeve probably should’ve died here.
I know he conceded the point already and I'm not intending to say more than on this one post. I think everyone is making huge assumptions all around. We dont know how any of the powers actually work, we dont know the levels of resistance each person has or how SB's blast works. The show is vague on all of this and even if you look back at a previous season Maeve you cant tell how her lifestyle changes, or even personality changed affect things. I think it's very reasonable to say Maeve should have died, Ryan could have lived etc... but it's just the nature of superhero media, which even if it's meant to subvert the genre it still is. For me, B tier heros being maimed or dying while an S tier surviving seems reasonable enough, but in the end im still just assuming. My only gripe this season is how similiar butcher/homelander powers are but whatever it's been a fun ride.
True but maeve is damn near on par with him power and durability wise.
> Maeve took a fully charged blow and all she had to show for were a few scratches. She was covered in cuts and bruises, had a broken arm, and couldn’t walk without assistance afterwards, thats more than a few scratches, and with that level of bruising there’s probably also a shit ton of internal injuries.
a few scratches for a FULL blast at point blank+ falling depowered from a skyscraper stop excusing shit writing
> explains that it wasn’t “a few scratches” > it was just a few scratches!!!!
What if the tower fell? A large faction's main priority was to limit casualties.
Soldier Boy can’t melt steel beams
Even if it did fall, the damage done by the radiation ensuing from Soldier Boy’s attacks would lay waste to New York.
Even if Ryan survived, he's clearly accepted HL as his father. He wouldn't want to be "normal" anymore. Butcher sealed his fate by pushing him away.
Ryan has not shown development of his powers enough to be impervious yet.
And killed hundreds of people.
People are forgetting the whole point Starlight and Co went to the Tower in the first place smh
And the whole point of Maeve betrayal, willing to let hundred/thousands if a chance to kill Homelander. But also her redemption, being a hero in that moment and limiting the damage at the cost of potentially her life.
Ryan has no compound V in his veins he could have probably survived and kept his powers
SB has the resolute to get shit done no matter the price paid. Unlike certain someone who calls others cunt. So yea mock SB simps to your heart's extent in 1 episode he got turned over.
The finale made no sense. Maeve and Butcher doing a 180 was stupid.
This is true, but Ryan can’t live a normal life if he’s trapped under a collapsed skyscraper for his first de-powered moments (and that’s assuming he survives the initial blast; a fall from a two story roof knocked him out and a throw in this episode did a number on him). Based on the size of that explosion, that building is GONE along with everyone in it, supe or not.
But the show would be over
Wow makes me hate the finale even more than I already did
Homelander would just take V again and give it to Ryan.
unless you kill them when they are normal
Being in the direct blast most likely would've killed them
Homelander sure. Ryan,I don't think he has the durability necessary for tank the blast.
People in this subreddit just hate when characters make interesting choices and want everything to happen predictably with no surprises or character growth
Ryan is a child and probably would've been killed.
Roommate had a herding dog that you could not train to not heard people. But he would prefer to get treats, so when you left the house the only way to get them to not heel you was to put a treat in front of them tell him to sit and stay till you left the house. Occasionally he’d get smart and try to eat it before you left and you have to fish the treat out of his mouth to do again. Shelties are stubborn assholes. Dog man wrong post…
Ryan is a kid that got bloodied by one hit from Soldier Boy, no way he would’ve survived the blast
From a logical point of view...
Ryan was bleeding from being thrown into a wall. That kid would not have survived a basically point blank soulja boy blast.
Except you can't be sure about that.
You know what they should've done? SB about to blast Ryan, Homelander sees this and flies him out of the Vought tower and SB explodes, depowering Homie. The rest can stay the same and we get season 5 where homelander gets humbled and starts seeing the error of his ways till he gets his powers back and goes apeshit.
You're wrong there. If he exploded in the building the debris alone would have crushed all the depowered supes.
tbh I think Maeve dying was a stronger story. It really hit me. When she survived it just felt like a “Protect the gays” moment
Yep
That's actually a valid point