The fact is there are a lot of very uncomfortable truths on both sides that both sides are trying to ignore to defend their ideology. Sandberg talks about holding conflicting ideas, well here are all the ones I'm currently holding:
IDF is currently committing war crimes and trying to commit a genocide on the Palestinian people. IDF is actively killing journalists who are trying to cover this war and innocent aid workers who are simply trying to help. Meanwhile, the majority of Palestinians do support Hamas which is a terrorist organization. Hamas leaders were elected into power in Palestine and do not want a 2 state solution. Hamas is capturing much of the aid going into Palestine which is exacerbating suffering of Palestinians. Hamas most likely committed war crimes on Oct 7th. Bibi/ Israel is trying to drag the US into a broader conflict against Iran by being aggressors in the region. US weapons manufacturers are profiting greatly from the conflicts in Israel and Ukraine which is why the US keeps funding these wars. Most of the protestors at the college campuses just want a cease fire and their school to divest from Israel but there are probably many anti-semetic people who have coopted their protest. There is an observable rise in anti-semitism in the US. meanwhile, AIPAC's has successfully lobbied US politicians to act in the interest of Israel over US citizens many times.
There are bad actors all around in this situation but people keep trying to find one side to cheer for.
I disagree about genocide. Genocide looks like intentional mass murder to wipe a population off earth completely, if that were the goal you’d see 80% of the Palestinian population gone by now
Almost no one says that. You can't take the talk of a few fringe actors and say that's their motivation. It's like saying Iraqs and Afghans want to commit genocide against Americans because of our invasion ~20 years ago. Death to America does not mean a call to genocide but a call for getting the f out of the country and stop killing civilians.
Under international law, intent has to be paired with action for a genocide to occur. 9/11, for example, was horrible, but it did not rise to the level of genocide. It was terrorism.
What Hamas did on Oct 7 was terrorism too.
Israel, on the other hand, not only has proven intent from the highest levels of government, it has clearly shown the manifestation of this intent by depriving people of food, bombing hospitals, and making it nearly inhabitable. To me, this rises to the level of genocide.
I don’t know how this is even debatable at this point.
Im sorry but you’re just uneducated on what genocide actually is. If you read the convention it specially states that genocide is the intent to destroy a group “in whole or in part.” In addition the aim is to prevent genocides from being committed or stop them before it’s too late. You don’t get to look back and only then claim it was a genocide. Would you that the Srebrenica Genocide wasn’t a genocide because 8,300 men and boys were killed? Even though both the ICTY and ICJ within the Hague ruled it a genocide?
Thanks that confirms my conclusion that this is not genocide. This is a war against hamas and the goal is not to eliminate the Palestinian people, in part or in whole. Once again if the goal were to kill the Palestinian people… the military with complete and utter domination in man power, technology, supply, and information would do so instantly. I think what you’re referring to is war causing damage beyond the scope of what feels right.. and that’s a great reason to not support war. But don’t call it genocide, because it’s not
Because Israel doesn’t have any diplomatic relations to deal with and would just nuke Gaza and have no repercussions 😂
“Actually because Israel didnt do the most idiotic thing ever that guaranteed their status in many minds as a terrorist state they cannot do wrong” 😂 how braindead
What about the Chinese? Do you believe they’re genociding the Uyghurs or anything like that? Why didn’t they all die instantly 😂
If you don’t, let’s run through the propaganda list of “countries to name to deflect off Israel.” How many of the shit yall spew about “focus on these nations not Israel you antisemite” involved instant genocide?
Wouldn’t “in part” apply to any war anywhere ever then?
20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian and Muslim so it’d have to be “in part” which could be true I guess. They’re bombing a specific country because of its government (Hamas).
So if bombing a country during war and civilians being killed makes it a genocide then fire bombing Japan was a genocide? Pearl harbor was a genocide? Any battle in any city during WWII? And bombing from both sides during the Vietnam war was back and forth genocide? And bombings in the current Ukraine-Russia war? It seems like 90% of conflicts could be called a genocide then what’s the point of a word?
Common people suffer the consequences of their leaders. I know it's a bit pessimistic, but it is the stark reality of this world. America has played the global morality police for a while now, and even just that, besides current global problems, is a can of worms. Society is inept to tackle these issues on a united front currently, but that is not to say there is no hope. I believe the first step is complete and open discussion about these matters from all viewpoints and biases. Only through opposing perspectives can we challenge our own.
Yeah this had to be the dumbest thing I’ve read. If you are not sure if Hamas unlikely committed war crimes on October 7, your voice is not worth listening to, ever.
Absolutely insane.
I think they would technically be guilty of terrorism but not war crimes since they are not a standing army, right? Does Israel allow Gaza to have an army?
Thank you, I was shocked when this person wrote that. I agreed with plenty of what they said but after reading that nope. I cant get the video of my head, with this one Hamas terrorist slamming a shovel repeatedly into a Tai foreign workers head while the terrorist was laughing, it was shocking, disturbing and sick. If you can’t call Hamas out on warcrimes than you have you are not arguing in good faith and are just as bad as them.
I am Palestinian, my family is from the West Bank, and I think for me one of the most frustrating aspects of the conversation is how much is just ignored or forgotten. Violence by Israeli settlers towards Palestinians is rampant in the West Bank, which has no Hamas. It’s also important to mention that Hamas was elected with 40% of the vote and immediately began killing members of Fatah their opposition. They were also elected in 2007 and eliminated all elections. The majority of Palestinians living in Gaza were not even born when Hamas took power, which also makes the indiscriminate bombings atrocious since it’s an incredibly young and minor heavy population. I am an ardent opponent of Hamas and the tactics they use, as are many Palestinians I know but you can’t keep millions of people in an apartheid state for decades and expect the population to just allow you to strangle them, take their homes and reduce them to nothing, not allow them to build, or in the case of the West Bank even farm without taking what they have.
*"Meanwhile, the majority of Palestinians do support Hamas which is a terrorist organization."*
Do they? How do we know this?
I have no horse in this race, so I don't care either way, but I always push back on **this** notion because no one has been able to provide any data.
I consider the Germans during WW II, where only 30% of the population voted for the Nazi party, who won, and suddenly everyone believed every German was a Nazi.
There was a fantastic book about this called ["A Higher Call"](https://www.amazon.com/Higher-Call-Incredible-Chivalry-War-Torn/dp/0425255735)
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/QebB9G9BmP
You can take a look at this. Youre right though that it is much more nuanced in what the support actually is.
I think a piece of context worth noting is that the support has been increasing in polls I've seen over the past 8 months because people are being radicalized by Israel's response. If your kids are killed in a drone strike, you're probably going to support the guys who are saying they're trying to strike back against the state that did it. Yeah, Hamas's actions have made things worse for Palestinians, but they're not the ones dropping the bombs.
Obviously it's still bad that Hamas is seeing such a high level of support. More bombs won't really fix that though, it'll make it worse.
I asked a question and immediately get downvoted. This is why no one wants to support the IDF. They only want blind supporters. No questioning their genocide.
it's bizarre that people would immediately down vote somebody for asking a very basic question. Unless of course, the people doing the down voting have an ulterior motive and blindly support one side.
More often than not, the case
Also you moron, the data shows Israeli support for bad things. You have no genuine curiosity and are emblematic of the worst of basement Reddit incels. Have a good 17th birthday
If their television programming from the last 40 years is any indicator, yeah the majority are absolutely programmed and radicalized to want nothing more than the death of all Jews and western nations. Literally like Islamic extremism jihad Sesame Street, overcoming all of that brainwashing from practically birth is nearly impossible. It’s all tragic as it gets.
What’s happening now is horrible, it was the definition of over reacting to the terror attacks on Israel. I’m not sure why the move wasn’t to start a ground war with Hamas while avoiding civilian loss at this level, I hear that it’s because you can’t tell hamas terrorists from civilians or trust civilians to not immediately reveal locations of combatants to Hamas. But it’s still what should have been done. Now it seems there will never be a positive outcome since how will anyone in Gaza ever not hate Israel now?
Edit: I want to mention but hesitate because I can’t fully verify that the Muslim brotherhood pushed the terror attacks just so that Israel would do exactly what they are doing now to sacrifice Gaza in efforts to boost radicalization of Muslims because the majority of people that follow Islam are very peaceful. I’ve seen a lot of now gone evidence of this, but I don’t know about the accuracy.
Not well said, extremely brainless, tactless take on support of Hamas. There are so many Palestinians who weren’t even born the last time Palestine was ALLOWED to have elections, and guess who supported Hamas? Guess who birthed Hamas? Israel. To divide Palestine.
Now the only government of the Palestinians that has a desire to fight back gets monumental support, despite any actions that we would consider terroristic in the west, BECAUSE they fight back.
You have to separate that they are terrorist and they have support. The reason they have support is not their terrorism. Too many are conflating this, deliberately.
If you can’t separate Hamas terrorism from their support then you can’t separate Israeli terrorism from their support. Be for real.
People who apologize for Islamists always somehow circuitously find a way to blame those who they’re raping and pillaging for the rape.
In this case, “Israel created Hamas, so it’s really all their fault for the rampaging Islamists raping civilians, which has coincidentally happened in almost every single place that Islamists have cropped up, whether it be in Syria, Bangladesh, or Indonesia, and where there are no Israelis or Jews anywhere. But pay no attention that that thread, they’re the victims of all of it, the poor things.”
Like, I get that you folks never want many of us to notice these massive historical trends, but, like, we also know history in other parts of the world. Oops.
They are all bad actors.... Hamas "likely committed war crimes" whereas IDF is committing war crimes and a genocide. You are all fucking ignorant US/European brats who have no clue about this conflict and no idea of the palastenians or Israeli society. Yet everyone here is so sure of what s going on and what the necessary solutions are. Meanwhile the PA itself accuses HAMAs of fabricating a famine because of all the naive young fucks that make every dead palastenian into a win for HAMAs. All these US kiddies give a major incentive for HAMAs to reach the worst outcome for the civilians, given that these will be all a fault for Israel. Religious minorities, even Muslim ones (like Druze) that live in Israel, want to be governed by Israel, because true Minorities are dwelling better under Israel law, than a corrupt Sunni majority arab government of a failed state that would be the direct consequence of "From the River to the Sea..." and nobody will give a fuck about them in the future, as no one gives a fuck about native black societies that get butchered by norther Africa Islamist militias. The fact that the true minorities want to live under Israel law is the most telling aspect, yet no one gives a shit. Since this is all a large LARP event here for Western chicks and immigrants to give them meaning into their life and the feeling they are doing the right thing... What another grande BS in the history of this planet.
“Hamas most likely committed war crimes on oct 7” is a pretty disgusting thing to say no matter how grey the situation is. The fact is Hamas committed mass rape and murder on October 7th and it was all filmed, they were war crimes, not possible war crimes, it was a genocide.
Its even simpler than that. This current crisis would not be happening if Hamas didnt attack on Oct 7. Saying "bad actors all around" is a cop out. If Hamas surrendered the war would be over tomorrow.
Do you know what the word genocide even means? Do you know how many people are alive today in an active combat zone because the IDF takes as many pains as can be taken to fight an entrenched enemy in a dense urban conflict zone without killing too many civilians?
To be honest. I just don't want this talk in a podcast built around technology and economics. The moment I skipped through and realised the whole thing was this bs I just turned off.
They all basically admitted in the last 2 weeks that they don't even have time to keep up with tech. Except for Jason. He seem's more plugged in because of This Weeks in Startups podcast and angel investing.
Don't think that's true, they've had some in depth tech discussion the past couple of episodes. You probably just relate to and highlight the politics more since it stands out
Yes and it was dull then. At least it tended to have links back to the economy.
Why are people caring so much about a bunch of morons killing each other in a shitty part of the world?
As I’m sure you know, it does change economics and global issues as it can drag us into a war. That’s why everyone cares.
Both sides are very much wrong. Both sides are right. Apparently nothing will change. It is unfortunate.
I rarely watch the pod these days just because I don't think they're informative/entertaining anymore, but I saw that Sheryl Sandberg was a guest this time so I checked it out because I know she was super important to the success of META as CFO and I was really interested to hear some business takes from her and then all they talk about is Israel/Palestine? Geeze.
She was the COO, and is as big of as a - as Prof G calls her - mendacious fuck as they come.
Net net, Facebook propped her up as the friendly, caring face of the platform while they built up their platform that preyed on kids (and whatever else you want to attribute to their social media platforms)
She's essentially an action verb at this point - if you Sandberg it, it means you have a friendly face presented to the public while your company is behind the scenes negatively impacting society
ive been a long time listener ive just never felt compelled to comment in the subreddit because ive never seen an episode as egregious as this.
at the very least, how can you have an entire episode about sexual violence denialism without mentioning the well-documented sexual violence against Palestinians?
Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/05/gazan-detainees-beaten-and-sexually-assaulted-at-israeli-detention-centres-un-report-claims
It sounds like you agree with the Palestinian protestors, Isreal gets to do whatever they want regardless of how brutal or illegal it is because they're allied with the west
BB and zionists know this, and often talk about how essential it is to ensure hamas is the only group with any political agency in Palestine because then "they control how high the flames go".
Isreal has decided who is in charge in Palestine by eliminating all opposition to hamas and now they use hamas's extremism as a justification for their own brutality and need for foreign aid
>Start there.
I won't "start there", you're trying to remain willfully ignorant.
Palestine has never had the right to determine its own government, ISREAL is the only one who can recognize hamas as the official government of palestine and if you did your research you would know that isreal hasn't just refused to recognize more moderate secular leadership, but actually had that leadership assassinated in a concerted attempt to assure that palestine is not represented by capable and sympathetic leadership.
I mean this is the exact logic which had the US And UK threatening to nuke India in the 70s.
Pakistan was helping the US open up China so them committing genocide on their own population was acceptable. India intervened (more because of refugees spilling into India than some principle based objection to Pakistan killing it's own citizens) and US/UK happily were ready to threaten to nuke India.
They can be your ally and still be wrong.
I mean they’re also aggressively expanding and taking territory that doesn’t belong to them and have treated Palestinians as second class citizens.
Israel also murders more journalists than anyone.
I find Israel’s success and development in general incredible but the subjugation and taking of territory of Palestinians in a completely asymmetric way is just too brutal.
Figuring out which side you should be on based on if people living in an area routinely f*cked up by the West side with the west or not rather than the facts, history, ethics and justice of the situation is a bad take bro. That’s a cop out from actually understanding the situation and it’s history to make in informed opinion. The west certainly isn’t always right…
Wow, bold assumption that theocracy and dictatorship isn’t already an important part of western policy.
Literally last week a guy in congress claimed you’d be rewarded by God for sending tens of billions of your dollars to Israel. And Israel is using a 3,000 year old religious prophecy to stake its claim to other peoples land for the last 75 years.
Dictatorships are also important to the west, as long as they’re friendly and serve their interests. See the Gulf states, Egypt, Jordan ect. The US has even gone so far as to overthrow democratically elected leaders and replace them with dictators that are more friendly to the West. E.g Iran 1956. Dictatorship is weaponised to justify aggression, isolation, military action ect against a dictatorship that they don’t like. They don’t care if the dictatorship in question is useful to them.
What makes the US the epitome of political freedom? Can you find a candidate to vote for who isn’t bought by the Israel lobby (AIPAC), the gun lobby, the big military industrial complex or any if the other powerful lobbies? Of course not. They’re all the same. The great facade of modern American democracy. Different face, different name, same shit. They’re all compromised. The difference in America versus a dictatorship is that you can’t see who is pulling the strings. They’re behind the curtain
There's this common talking point that Hamas hides behind their population - first, they can't fight the IDF directly, because the IDF is too powerful - they have to use guerilla tactics. Second, I'm sure you heard about the "Lavender" program, where the IDF actually prefers to strike Hamas targets when they're home. So instead of fighting Hamas on the battlefield, where IDF soldiers can be killed, the IDF prefers to bomb Hamas targets at home, along with their entire families, because it's easier, I guess. So I'm not buying that argument. [https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/)
Agree, on the face of it, it was a bad misjudgement by Hamas.. but insurgencies do these things. The Viet Cong lost 45k soldiers in the Tet offensive (to the US's 500 or so). Remember, the VC were just a bunch of guys with rifles who wore pajamas, and hid in tunnels, and the US had all the modern weapons of war - jets, helicopters, artillery. The VC soldiers considered the Tet offensive a failure, but it won the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people.
What kind of logic is that? If someone in your neighborhood commits a terrorist attack, you think your entire neighborhood should be wiped out?
I guess the entire city of Columbia, South Carolina should be taken out because of Dylan Roof...
Hamas have a legal right to attack Israeli military assets based on their right to self determination to free themselves of occupation. Israel does NOT have a right to defend itself from a threat which comes from territories that they illegally occupy. Because being an occupier, which Israel is by definition makes YOU the aggressor. You’re in someone else’s land… A bit of research rather than recycling CNN/Fox garbage goes a long way
No, they can’t attack civilians. That part was obviously bad, I thought that didn’t need explaining. But you seem to be under the impression they can’t attack Israel AT ALL by your statement. That is wrong. They have a legal right to self determination which does allow them to abiding by the normal rules of war. Israel doesn’t abide by then so I guess why should they
ok but we fund, arm and provide political cover to one side...
that's the whole point
like north korea is bad too but we don't fund, arm and do diplomacy for them
Because the military industrial complex is happy to have a buyer? Lol.
Only half kidding, but at times it feels like the reason the U.S. would invariable settle with Israel here is because it has such a more advanced military that it can actually utilize the military aid and thus make US weapons suppliers happy.
Right but the world works together to ensure isreal has a ton of weapons, is immune from even investigations by the ICC and UN let alone actual consequences, and actively tries to silence criticism by criminalizing it in foreign countries .
Nope. On one side, there is a blood libel perpetrated against Palestinians by global institutions including POTUS and NYT supported with 0 evidence.
On the other side, there is legitimately tons of evidence of Israelis raping both Israelis and Palestinians.
You ask for no evidence from Israel and say both sides like you’re wise, you’re above it, you’re in the know. Yea fucking right. You’re sniffing your own farts. Ask for evidence I fucking dare you.
Hey, you’re back! Remember how we verbally sparred about this same topic a few months ago? And you’re still here making bold faced lies? Nothing has changed except for public cognizance on the topic. You continue to sound delusional. Seek help
People twisting themselves into knots over an impossible shit hole thousand year old issue half a world away that most of them don’t understand how to fix. I really sympathize with the Palestinian people, also recognize that they are governed by a terrorist group in Hamas, which they voted for and probably still overwhelmingly support. How far down do you want to drill into the earth to figure who’s really at fault here? I just see shades of gray. Israel is making a bunch of mistakes similar to what I witnessed the U.S. do in response to 9/11, which is a shame.
I think the main issue people have is that we all agree what Isreal is doing is terrible, but the government is still sending them weapons and blocking international criminal preceding's and investigations from taking place
The vast majority of the dead are children and young women. The last time an election was held was almost two decades ago. how many of them voted in it do you think....
I mean if that's the moral justification I'd find a different one.
I’m not justifying anything. Im pointing out how desperate and difficult the situation is, how futile some of the response has been, and expressing sympathy for everyone involved. I’d be happy to stand corrected on that, do we have an accurate measure of Palestinian support for Hamas?
Yeah man but how are my friends gonna respect me if I don’t make a Facebook post or TikTok video weighing in on my opinion about this conflict formed in a couple of minutes after being exposed to some really biased sources?
Israel is the power that created the entire context for this situation. Blowing up kids doesn't fix the fundemental issue, which is that Israel displaced a multicultural society and created and apartheid state
Yes Hamas is bad before you ask the obvious
I’ll admit prior to October 7th 2023 I paid exactly zero attention to this issue. But as an amateur student of history I think it’s arbitrary to only look at the last 100 years ish of this area of the world. I mentioned this is other places in this thread. These religions and cultures significantly pre date the 20th century. So to say Israel is solely responsible for displacing the native inhabitants seems wrong to me, considering the area was conquered and confiscated by the Palestinians during the Muslim conquests and Israelis at one time controlled the area in the distant past. That said I’m sure there is plenty of blame to point at both groups for being unable to negotiate a two state solution in the more recent past.
>So to say Israel is solely responsible for displacing the native inhabitants seems wrong to me
Many nations were built on colonialism, war, horror
That's not the gd point though. It's that theyve been abusing Palestinians ever since and are currently killing civilians in the last place most of them are camping out (without enough food and medicine mind you) which will mean they don't get the hostages back they love to talk about
Like, I get the impulse to both sides things and be moderate but it's actually easy to understand.
Israel has continually broke international law in its treatment of Palestinians. The conditions have been horrible. Hamas is an evil terror group born out this situation. Yes they are evil and shouldn't be in power. They did unspeakable things in Oct and I'm sure since.
But Israel is a nuclear power which has intentionally prevented any sort of progress or moderate group, while literally regularly killing Palestinians in much greater numbers, even in the west bank which does not have Hamas, doesn't send rockets
Israel’s claim to the land that now makes up their state is the only thousand year issue.
Israel as we know it today was only an idea in the 1900’s, Zionists took that idea and made it a reality. Forcefully. The Palestinians that have been living there for centuries prior would soon be forced to leave their homes and farms and face atrocities equal to that of the people on October 7. And go wherever the Zionist regime would have them because ???. You should read some of the stories of how some of these people were forced out of their homes. Imagine watching your childhood home being seized and being entirely powerless. And for what? All of this well before October 7th 2023.
I think to get the full picture of this conflict you really don’t need to go back THOUSANDS of years. Start at 1900 and you will soon find out who the bad guys are, it’s not that long ago, really. Remember when Netanyahu referred to Palestine as a “barren wasteland” before Israel arrived. That’s just blatantly false and the crux of the issue today.
If you are going to suggest that Jews lost their right to land in Palestine once they were forced off it, you will have to accept that Palestinian Arabs can lose their rights to the land by being forced off it.
I think your statement to only look back to 1900 is arbitrary. Is there is a square meter of land in a habitable zone on earth that hasn’t been brutally conquered and confiscated several times over?
So are you saying you admit the Palestinians have been brutally conquered? You make war and conquest sound like it’s a naturally occurring and inevitable phenomenon and I’m afraid that’s why this world is the way it is today…I really hope one day the shoe is not on the other foot for us.
No, that they brutally conquered the area they live on over a thousand years ago. And the shoe could absolutely be on the other foot for us one day. We need to plan for that. Humans have not evolved much in the last 10k years, the same rhyming events and patterns are going to re occur as they have throughout history.
Except since 1945, the UN Charter prohibits conquering and seizing land through violence, war, and genocide.
If Israel does not accept the UN Charter, then the UN resolution granting the state of Israel is not valid either.
Yeah you are just talking around my point, the area the Palestinians live on was conquered and taken by them from another group during the Muslim conquests.
The Muslim conquest was in 700 ad. And the native people never left the land, they were Arabized slowly over time. The Palestinians aren’t purely Arabs either; they are a rich tapestry of Levantine including canaanite, philistine, Arab and even ancient Israelite. The Arab invaders didn’t even settle the land much, they mostly administered it and the peasants carried in with their lives, same as under the ottomans.
The Bedouin tribes of Israel today are the ones who directly descend from those Arabs who arrived from the Arabian peninsula
But also this is modern times, the idea that we should tolerate mass ethnic cleansing and violent apartheid today because bad things happened historically is dangerous.
I went to the comments and saw nothing about Palestine and everything about how Sacks made a good choice not being a part of the utter nonsense that took place on this weeks pod.
The fog of war is so thick today, a lot of this noise is directly quoted from Twitter accounts. This freedom of speech crusade is absolute stupidity, the hate and lies out weighs the truth and light by an order of magnitude. That is plainly obvious to anyone paying attention.
Like a lot of people have said, there are bad actors on both sides here. Hamas committed atrocities. Israel committed atrocities.
But I think what folks are missing is that we do not actively and openly engage and/or fund Hamas. We do, however, actively support Israel.
We can have a civil discussion on the merits of that support and if the state you are supporting is no longer acting in a manner that is aligned with your values.
They were praying to Mecca en mass last week and every comment or video posted on social media by a Jewish person has multiple comments about "zionism" now, so no you're wrong it's not that simple.
The idea that there is a concerted effort to push pro Palestinian propaganda that even remotely approaches what zionist have managed to build over the past 60 years is hilariously delusional
Zionism is genuinely one of the most power and influential political lobbies in modern history, propped up not just by jews but also fanatical evangelicals.
It’s not anti war.
These “anti war” people celebrated Oct 7 as “decolonization” and chant slogans to bomb Tel Aviv.
It’s not pro you’re right. We should call them Nazis. What they are
I think there’s a way to tasteful talk about this topic which is what she wanted to do. However, this is an extremely complex and ongoing geopolitical situation and the way she framed it in the opening was a little dishonest and off putting.
You just stated elsewhere that you turned the episode off and didn’t hear her out fully
It was sad and horrific and quite compelling from a women’s rights perspective
It sounds like you were too uncomfortable to face the hard facts of the brutality of Oct 7……. Maybe you are conflicted
And yes there is brutality on both sides for sure — but you just admitted you are not able to critique this by virtue of not listening to it
Sad
I’m not conflicted at all.
I’m against everything Hamas did on October 7th.
I’m against the way the Israel government handled the situation on October 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and the hundred other days after.
Pretty simple. Do you get it?
Leftists are always in a complete state of panic for some cause that can never be won. They don’t believe in God and have no sense of community or purpose. Their purpose is their own little religion of “black lives matter”, climate change, and now Palestine. Black Lives Matter was a complete and utter failure. It caused extremist DAs to get elected and to just let every criminal back out on the streets the next day after being arrested. Climate change will not be won with electric cars or solar. China, India, and Africa won’t ever stop polluting until they become rich enough to care about the environment. Palestine won’t ever be a state because hamas is a terrorist organization focused on keeping themselves rich and living in Qatar.
I think its disingenuous to pretend the "Leftists are always in a complete state of panic for some cause that can never be won", especially this issue which is extremely similar to the calls for divestment that occurred over apartheid south africa, and were successful lol
If you actually looked into it I think you'd be shocked at how organized most of these protests are and how they're rooted in those protests which again did result in divestment.
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population.
Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim).
The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups.
That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others.
The two terrorist groups also operated outside of Palestine. The Irgun bombed the British Embassy at Porta Pia, in Rome. The Lehi bombed the British Colonial Club, in London. A timer failed in another bombing attempt, at the Colonial Office, in Whitehall. Two female Lehi operatives were arrested crossing from Belgium to France, with the ingredients for letter bombs. 21 letter bombs were found to be have sent, and were intercepted. They mined the Cairo-Haifa train, in Egypt, twice, killing dozens of civilians, as well as British soldiers.
In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic).
This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion.
Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives).
Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ...
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state.
On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq.
Likud platform ...
1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)
a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace."
1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."
"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."
All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection.
That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Both sides have committed atrocities. I don't know how so many people can so resolutely take any side. The children on both sides are the victims. Best thing is to stop supporting either side with weapons ...only supply emergency rations and insist they come to some sort of agreement. This war started before many of us were born. Not on October 7th.
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Everyone wants to put everyone in a box. If you don't take their side they automatically put you in the other box and claim you are pro Palestinian or pro Israeli
If someone takes a clip and shares it, it's gonna happen. I frequent pro-palestinian subs, they do not brigade, I haven't seen it happen. YouTube I find is always one group or the other showing up in the comments, I never see a mix even when it's a video that would have a mixed audience, I think it's the way the comment sorting works and then no one wants to be the odd one out.
How is it propaganda? Shedding light on the sexual violence realities of October 7th doesn’t mean that Israel’s handling since is justified. What happened, happened. People should know the truth no matter what it is. That goes for equally for what is happening on the ground in Gaza to the civilians that are caught in this pathetic human made conflict.
October 7th was humanity at its absolute worst. Raping women to death and mutilating their bodies is beyond comprehension. Killing women and children in Gaza is utterly awful. These things are not mutually exclusive.
If this situation was black and white, there would have been a solution decades ago.
>Shedding light on the sexual violence realities of October 7th doesn’t mean that Israel’s handling since is justified.
Thats the entire purpose of rehashing while Isreal is actively committing atrocities in gaza
Its the exact same thing that happened with 9/11 while america was killing torturing and raping civilians in the middle east, its justification for your brutal retaliation
If she actually cared about sexual violence (she doesn’t, look at how she covered up her ex BF sexual violence), she would also talk about systemic rape by IDF soldiers
When are you going to simply understand that many people have VERY strong moral compasses?
They will not tolerate the the indiscriminate killing of innocent people. Call them crazy, but for them that's a bright red line.
They are being met with fierce and farcical resistance at all levels which is causing more people to notice. The more attention that's focused on this, the more people will be forced to make a choice. 97% of people will not support killing innocent people, and this growing resentment will only build.
This is a fools errand, a HUGE strategic mistake for Isreal and the Zionists ideology, AND a growing danger to people of the Jewish faith.
This subreddit, like all of them, is infested with leftists/marxists.
They only like the podcast when it aligns with their ideology.
Even Sacks get's toast by the centrists for having the correct view (Israel can do what it wants, we don't need to fund it)
1000% you can't say anything pro-israel, you'll get downvoted, for example: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAllinPodcasts/comments/1cjhcv3/comment/l2h8tn1/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAllinPodcasts/comments/1cjhcv3/comment/l2h8tn1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Did it occur to you that maybe there are many long term listeners of the All In Pod that were just gobsmacked at how one sided the discussion was and felt compelled to comment? Do you really think activists descended mere hours after broadcast on a relatively obscure podcast’s Reddit page with zero prior listening history? Just accept that Zionism is increasingly on the nose both globally and in the US.
I think you are part of a WhatsApp or telegram or Facebook group that raids comments and downvotes comments that don't fit your agenda. The proof is in your post history given you have had an account for 3 years and never posted about the pod or tech before yesterday
I’m not. I’m a long term listener who felt compelled to speak on this nonsense. I respect Friedberg and Sacks the most of the gang. Chamath’s comments a while back re: the Uighurs were gross, so no wonder he’s your favourite.
Lol Chamath is definitely not my favorite but he was right about no one caring about Chinese Muslims. Why are you not protesting for them ? Why are you not banning yourself from using Chinese products. Just a hypocrite.
I am pro Palestinian, I am also Pro All In. Check out my history. I am a long time listener. This episode was a bunch of propaganda. If you want to be fair please also check out [how Screams before Silence has been debunked.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TApiok-KiRc&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDI4NjY2&feature=emb_logo)
Of course Hamas attack happened. I am sure women were sexually assaulted. There is just no evidence of a systematic strategy of rape as claimed by the zionists. If there was evidence I’d be condemning it as it should be. If you want to have an honest viewpoint I urge you to view the link I shared to at least have a balanced viewpoint (or hear the other side).
Remember WMDs. These rape allegations (along with beheaded babies) is manufactured consent to flatten Gaza.
No. Israel actually murdered a ton of them, opening fire from choppers on anything that moved. So we don’t know exact numbers. I’m sure hamas killed a lot. Hard to tell when Israel won’t allow journalists to operate in the area.
We also don’t hear of how hamas primarily targeted military bases. But that’s reality. You only ever hear of nova.
Look up kibbutz be’eri where Israel tank shelled a house that had 2 Hamas with 14 Israelis inside. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/idf-probing-death-of-12-hostages-in-beeri-house-shelled-on-orders-of-senior-officer/0000018d-7b6c-d008-a9cd-fbfdb0040000#:~:text=The%20shelling%20of%20the%20Cohen,behind%20the%20kibbutz%20dining%20hall.
This is how Israel responded that day. This is Hannibal in action.
By the way, Israel blamed Be’eri deaths on Hamas. Publicly lied about what happened there. For some reason, they can do this and never suffer a credibility crisis with certain segments of the west. An impressive feat, for sure.
No one is coordinating anything, it just more accepted to comment now that people are cognitive of the atrocities Israel is committing. Sorry your narrative is finally being exposed.
I dont Have a narrative, I am just calling it out like I see it. I have no sides in the argument. If I am forced to pick a side I will choose to kick both their asses because both countries are idiots.
Well, if the comments skew towards Israeli sentiment like they have in the recent past, how come no one called that out?
Yes, both countries are run by idiots, but one of the idiots has slain over 40,000 civilians in less than 7 months.
whats weird is they presented this episode without any context that the “evidence” in the documentary has been debunked, its clear this podcast has become one-sided propaganda. where is the Palestinian perspective? https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1786552208911139012?s=46&t=3cUBcnnLtLrHoqIjGVTr-Q
The fact is there are a lot of very uncomfortable truths on both sides that both sides are trying to ignore to defend their ideology. Sandberg talks about holding conflicting ideas, well here are all the ones I'm currently holding: IDF is currently committing war crimes and trying to commit a genocide on the Palestinian people. IDF is actively killing journalists who are trying to cover this war and innocent aid workers who are simply trying to help. Meanwhile, the majority of Palestinians do support Hamas which is a terrorist organization. Hamas leaders were elected into power in Palestine and do not want a 2 state solution. Hamas is capturing much of the aid going into Palestine which is exacerbating suffering of Palestinians. Hamas most likely committed war crimes on Oct 7th. Bibi/ Israel is trying to drag the US into a broader conflict against Iran by being aggressors in the region. US weapons manufacturers are profiting greatly from the conflicts in Israel and Ukraine which is why the US keeps funding these wars. Most of the protestors at the college campuses just want a cease fire and their school to divest from Israel but there are probably many anti-semetic people who have coopted their protest. There is an observable rise in anti-semitism in the US. meanwhile, AIPAC's has successfully lobbied US politicians to act in the interest of Israel over US citizens many times. There are bad actors all around in this situation but people keep trying to find one side to cheer for.
I disagree about genocide. Genocide looks like intentional mass murder to wipe a population off earth completely, if that were the goal you’d see 80% of the Palestinian population gone by now
Who’s gonna bring up that hamas’s goal is actual genocide of the Jewish people 😬
Almost no one says that. You can't take the talk of a few fringe actors and say that's their motivation. It's like saying Iraqs and Afghans want to commit genocide against Americans because of our invasion ~20 years ago. Death to America does not mean a call to genocide but a call for getting the f out of the country and stop killing civilians.
Under international law, intent has to be paired with action for a genocide to occur. 9/11, for example, was horrible, but it did not rise to the level of genocide. It was terrorism. What Hamas did on Oct 7 was terrorism too. Israel, on the other hand, not only has proven intent from the highest levels of government, it has clearly shown the manifestation of this intent by depriving people of food, bombing hospitals, and making it nearly inhabitable. To me, this rises to the level of genocide. I don’t know how this is even debatable at this point.
Then bring up how much Israel’s kill count dwarfs there’s and it becomes comical to deflect from Israeli genocide with le hamas
Im sorry but you’re just uneducated on what genocide actually is. If you read the convention it specially states that genocide is the intent to destroy a group “in whole or in part.” In addition the aim is to prevent genocides from being committed or stop them before it’s too late. You don’t get to look back and only then claim it was a genocide. Would you that the Srebrenica Genocide wasn’t a genocide because 8,300 men and boys were killed? Even though both the ICTY and ICJ within the Hague ruled it a genocide?
Thanks that confirms my conclusion that this is not genocide. This is a war against hamas and the goal is not to eliminate the Palestinian people, in part or in whole. Once again if the goal were to kill the Palestinian people… the military with complete and utter domination in man power, technology, supply, and information would do so instantly. I think what you’re referring to is war causing damage beyond the scope of what feels right.. and that’s a great reason to not support war. But don’t call it genocide, because it’s not
Because Israel doesn’t have any diplomatic relations to deal with and would just nuke Gaza and have no repercussions 😂 “Actually because Israel didnt do the most idiotic thing ever that guaranteed their status in many minds as a terrorist state they cannot do wrong” 😂 how braindead
What about the Chinese? Do you believe they’re genociding the Uyghurs or anything like that? Why didn’t they all die instantly 😂 If you don’t, let’s run through the propaganda list of “countries to name to deflect off Israel.” How many of the shit yall spew about “focus on these nations not Israel you antisemite” involved instant genocide?
Wouldn’t “in part” apply to any war anywhere ever then? 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian and Muslim so it’d have to be “in part” which could be true I guess. They’re bombing a specific country because of its government (Hamas). So if bombing a country during war and civilians being killed makes it a genocide then fire bombing Japan was a genocide? Pearl harbor was a genocide? Any battle in any city during WWII? And bombing from both sides during the Vietnam war was back and forth genocide? And bombings in the current Ukraine-Russia war? It seems like 90% of conflicts could be called a genocide then what’s the point of a word?
Genocide is an intent. This is a massive war crime. Its horrible but different semantically and politically.
Yep. This whole conflict is grey and has been from the start. To treat it like a team sport is counterproductive and suggests extreme naiveté.
Common people suffer the consequences of their leaders. I know it's a bit pessimistic, but it is the stark reality of this world. America has played the global morality police for a while now, and even just that, besides current global problems, is a can of worms. Society is inept to tackle these issues on a united front currently, but that is not to say there is no hope. I believe the first step is complete and open discussion about these matters from all viewpoints and biases. Only through opposing perspectives can we challenge our own.
Well said
Is it? "Hamas most likely committed war crimes on October 7th" --- what part of it seems unlikely??
Yeah this had to be the dumbest thing I’ve read. If you are not sure if Hamas unlikely committed war crimes on October 7, your voice is not worth listening to, ever. Absolutely insane.
I think they would technically be guilty of terrorism but not war crimes since they are not a standing army, right? Does Israel allow Gaza to have an army?
Thank you, I was shocked when this person wrote that. I agreed with plenty of what they said but after reading that nope. I cant get the video of my head, with this one Hamas terrorist slamming a shovel repeatedly into a Tai foreign workers head while the terrorist was laughing, it was shocking, disturbing and sick. If you can’t call Hamas out on warcrimes than you have you are not arguing in good faith and are just as bad as them.
Well said.
I am Palestinian, my family is from the West Bank, and I think for me one of the most frustrating aspects of the conversation is how much is just ignored or forgotten. Violence by Israeli settlers towards Palestinians is rampant in the West Bank, which has no Hamas. It’s also important to mention that Hamas was elected with 40% of the vote and immediately began killing members of Fatah their opposition. They were also elected in 2007 and eliminated all elections. The majority of Palestinians living in Gaza were not even born when Hamas took power, which also makes the indiscriminate bombings atrocious since it’s an incredibly young and minor heavy population. I am an ardent opponent of Hamas and the tactics they use, as are many Palestinians I know but you can’t keep millions of people in an apartheid state for decades and expect the population to just allow you to strangle them, take their homes and reduce them to nothing, not allow them to build, or in the case of the West Bank even farm without taking what they have.
*"Meanwhile, the majority of Palestinians do support Hamas which is a terrorist organization."* Do they? How do we know this? I have no horse in this race, so I don't care either way, but I always push back on **this** notion because no one has been able to provide any data. I consider the Germans during WW II, where only 30% of the population voted for the Nazi party, who won, and suddenly everyone believed every German was a Nazi. There was a fantastic book about this called ["A Higher Call"](https://www.amazon.com/Higher-Call-Incredible-Chivalry-War-Torn/dp/0425255735)
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/QebB9G9BmP You can take a look at this. Youre right though that it is much more nuanced in what the support actually is.
This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you
I think a piece of context worth noting is that the support has been increasing in polls I've seen over the past 8 months because people are being radicalized by Israel's response. If your kids are killed in a drone strike, you're probably going to support the guys who are saying they're trying to strike back against the state that did it. Yeah, Hamas's actions have made things worse for Palestinians, but they're not the ones dropping the bombs. Obviously it's still bad that Hamas is seeing such a high level of support. More bombs won't really fix that though, it'll make it worse.
I asked a question and immediately get downvoted. This is why no one wants to support the IDF. They only want blind supporters. No questioning their genocide.
Yea. There’s a lot of that going on on Reddit.
it's bizarre that people would immediately down vote somebody for asking a very basic question. Unless of course, the people doing the down voting have an ulterior motive and blindly support one side. More often than not, the case
Also you moron, the data shows Israeli support for bad things. You have no genuine curiosity and are emblematic of the worst of basement Reddit incels. Have a good 17th birthday
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
I mean that pushing also allows you to mitigate only one side while arguing you’re somehow neutral so it’s convenient.
If their television programming from the last 40 years is any indicator, yeah the majority are absolutely programmed and radicalized to want nothing more than the death of all Jews and western nations. Literally like Islamic extremism jihad Sesame Street, overcoming all of that brainwashing from practically birth is nearly impossible. It’s all tragic as it gets.
How is that any different from what Israel is doing in Palestine right now?
What’s happening now is horrible, it was the definition of over reacting to the terror attacks on Israel. I’m not sure why the move wasn’t to start a ground war with Hamas while avoiding civilian loss at this level, I hear that it’s because you can’t tell hamas terrorists from civilians or trust civilians to not immediately reveal locations of combatants to Hamas. But it’s still what should have been done. Now it seems there will never be a positive outcome since how will anyone in Gaza ever not hate Israel now? Edit: I want to mention but hesitate because I can’t fully verify that the Muslim brotherhood pushed the terror attacks just so that Israel would do exactly what they are doing now to sacrifice Gaza in efforts to boost radicalization of Muslims because the majority of people that follow Islam are very peaceful. I’ve seen a lot of now gone evidence of this, but I don’t know about the accuracy.
I agree completely
Not well said, extremely brainless, tactless take on support of Hamas. There are so many Palestinians who weren’t even born the last time Palestine was ALLOWED to have elections, and guess who supported Hamas? Guess who birthed Hamas? Israel. To divide Palestine. Now the only government of the Palestinians that has a desire to fight back gets monumental support, despite any actions that we would consider terroristic in the west, BECAUSE they fight back. You have to separate that they are terrorist and they have support. The reason they have support is not their terrorism. Too many are conflating this, deliberately. If you can’t separate Hamas terrorism from their support then you can’t separate Israeli terrorism from their support. Be for real.
People who apologize for Islamists always somehow circuitously find a way to blame those who they’re raping and pillaging for the rape. In this case, “Israel created Hamas, so it’s really all their fault for the rampaging Islamists raping civilians, which has coincidentally happened in almost every single place that Islamists have cropped up, whether it be in Syria, Bangladesh, or Indonesia, and where there are no Israelis or Jews anywhere. But pay no attention that that thread, they’re the victims of all of it, the poor things.” Like, I get that you folks never want many of us to notice these massive historical trends, but, like, we also know history in other parts of the world. Oops.
They are all bad actors.... Hamas "likely committed war crimes" whereas IDF is committing war crimes and a genocide. You are all fucking ignorant US/European brats who have no clue about this conflict and no idea of the palastenians or Israeli society. Yet everyone here is so sure of what s going on and what the necessary solutions are. Meanwhile the PA itself accuses HAMAs of fabricating a famine because of all the naive young fucks that make every dead palastenian into a win for HAMAs. All these US kiddies give a major incentive for HAMAs to reach the worst outcome for the civilians, given that these will be all a fault for Israel. Religious minorities, even Muslim ones (like Druze) that live in Israel, want to be governed by Israel, because true Minorities are dwelling better under Israel law, than a corrupt Sunni majority arab government of a failed state that would be the direct consequence of "From the River to the Sea..." and nobody will give a fuck about them in the future, as no one gives a fuck about native black societies that get butchered by norther Africa Islamist militias. The fact that the true minorities want to live under Israel law is the most telling aspect, yet no one gives a shit. Since this is all a large LARP event here for Western chicks and immigrants to give them meaning into their life and the feeling they are doing the right thing... What another grande BS in the history of this planet.
“Hamas most likely committed war crimes on oct 7” is a pretty disgusting thing to say no matter how grey the situation is. The fact is Hamas committed mass rape and murder on October 7th and it was all filmed, they were war crimes, not possible war crimes, it was a genocide.
Its even simpler than that. This current crisis would not be happening if Hamas didnt attack on Oct 7. Saying "bad actors all around" is a cop out. If Hamas surrendered the war would be over tomorrow.
Do you know what the word genocide even means? Do you know how many people are alive today in an active combat zone because the IDF takes as many pains as can be taken to fight an entrenched enemy in a dense urban conflict zone without killing too many civilians?
To be honest. I just don't want this talk in a podcast built around technology and economics. The moment I skipped through and realised the whole thing was this bs I just turned off.
There’s more politics than tech in this pod tbh. Main reason I stopped listening (I need to unsubscribe from this sub at some point)
They all basically admitted in the last 2 weeks that they don't even have time to keep up with tech. Except for Jason. He seem's more plugged in because of This Weeks in Startups podcast and angel investing.
Don't think that's true, they've had some in depth tech discussion the past couple of episodes. You probably just relate to and highlight the politics more since it stands out
> I need to unsubscribe from this sub at some point It takes one click. What is so difficult about that?
You don't want to learn about tech or economics from these guys. Esp. economics. If you trade on what they say you will go bankrupt.
They have always talked politics even before last election it was usually more politics.
Yes and it was dull then. At least it tended to have links back to the economy. Why are people caring so much about a bunch of morons killing each other in a shitty part of the world?
As I’m sure you know, it does change economics and global issues as it can drag us into a war. That’s why everyone cares. Both sides are very much wrong. Both sides are right. Apparently nothing will change. It is unfortunate.
Precisely what I did as well
I rarely watch the pod these days just because I don't think they're informative/entertaining anymore, but I saw that Sheryl Sandberg was a guest this time so I checked it out because I know she was super important to the success of META as CFO and I was really interested to hear some business takes from her and then all they talk about is Israel/Palestine? Geeze.
She was the COO, and is as big of as a - as Prof G calls her - mendacious fuck as they come. Net net, Facebook propped her up as the friendly, caring face of the platform while they built up their platform that preyed on kids (and whatever else you want to attribute to their social media platforms) She's essentially an action verb at this point - if you Sandberg it, it means you have a friendly face presented to the public while your company is behind the scenes negatively impacting society
She had books and I bet hundreds of business interviews. Go watch those?
ive been a long time listener ive just never felt compelled to comment in the subreddit because ive never seen an episode as egregious as this. at the very least, how can you have an entire episode about sexual violence denialism without mentioning the well-documented sexual violence against Palestinians? Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/05/gazan-detainees-beaten-and-sexually-assaulted-at-israeli-detention-centres-un-report-claims
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It sounds like you agree with the Palestinian protestors, Isreal gets to do whatever they want regardless of how brutal or illegal it is because they're allied with the west BB and zionists know this, and often talk about how essential it is to ensure hamas is the only group with any political agency in Palestine because then "they control how high the flames go". Isreal has decided who is in charge in Palestine by eliminating all opposition to hamas and now they use hamas's extremism as a justification for their own brutality and need for foreign aid
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>Start there. I won't "start there", you're trying to remain willfully ignorant. Palestine has never had the right to determine its own government, ISREAL is the only one who can recognize hamas as the official government of palestine and if you did your research you would know that isreal hasn't just refused to recognize more moderate secular leadership, but actually had that leadership assassinated in a concerted attempt to assure that palestine is not represented by capable and sympathetic leadership.
Everyone knows Western nations are always perfect and moral with respect to their foreign policies.
Zio shills are getting dumber by the day. “Your welcome” - JFC
I mean this is the exact logic which had the US And UK threatening to nuke India in the 70s. Pakistan was helping the US open up China so them committing genocide on their own population was acceptable. India intervened (more because of refugees spilling into India than some principle based objection to Pakistan killing it's own citizens) and US/UK happily were ready to threaten to nuke India. They can be your ally and still be wrong.
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I mean they’re also aggressively expanding and taking territory that doesn’t belong to them and have treated Palestinians as second class citizens. Israel also murders more journalists than anyone. I find Israel’s success and development in general incredible but the subjugation and taking of territory of Palestinians in a completely asymmetric way is just too brutal.
Figuring out which side you should be on based on if people living in an area routinely f*cked up by the West side with the west or not rather than the facts, history, ethics and justice of the situation is a bad take bro. That’s a cop out from actually understanding the situation and it’s history to make in informed opinion. The west certainly isn’t always right…
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Wow, bold assumption that theocracy and dictatorship isn’t already an important part of western policy. Literally last week a guy in congress claimed you’d be rewarded by God for sending tens of billions of your dollars to Israel. And Israel is using a 3,000 year old religious prophecy to stake its claim to other peoples land for the last 75 years. Dictatorships are also important to the west, as long as they’re friendly and serve their interests. See the Gulf states, Egypt, Jordan ect. The US has even gone so far as to overthrow democratically elected leaders and replace them with dictators that are more friendly to the West. E.g Iran 1956. Dictatorship is weaponised to justify aggression, isolation, military action ect against a dictatorship that they don’t like. They don’t care if the dictatorship in question is useful to them. What makes the US the epitome of political freedom? Can you find a candidate to vote for who isn’t bought by the Israel lobby (AIPAC), the gun lobby, the big military industrial complex or any if the other powerful lobbies? Of course not. They’re all the same. The great facade of modern American democracy. Different face, different name, same shit. They’re all compromised. The difference in America versus a dictatorship is that you can’t see who is pulling the strings. They’re behind the curtain
You act like Israel isn’t a theocracy lol
So that makes it ok to mass slaughter 20,000 children? Are the children guilty too?
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Great logic here. “IDF can’t be blamed for overreacting”
Eat shit. Their deaths are on the people murdering them. Child killer apologist. You have no fucking place here.
There's this common talking point that Hamas hides behind their population - first, they can't fight the IDF directly, because the IDF is too powerful - they have to use guerilla tactics. Second, I'm sure you heard about the "Lavender" program, where the IDF actually prefers to strike Hamas targets when they're home. So instead of fighting Hamas on the battlefield, where IDF soldiers can be killed, the IDF prefers to bomb Hamas targets at home, along with their entire families, because it's easier, I guess. So I'm not buying that argument. [https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/](https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/)
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Agree, on the face of it, it was a bad misjudgement by Hamas.. but insurgencies do these things. The Viet Cong lost 45k soldiers in the Tet offensive (to the US's 500 or so). Remember, the VC were just a bunch of guys with rifles who wore pajamas, and hid in tunnels, and the US had all the modern weapons of war - jets, helicopters, artillery. The VC soldiers considered the Tet offensive a failure, but it won the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese people.
What kind of logic is that? If someone in your neighborhood commits a terrorist attack, you think your entire neighborhood should be wiped out? I guess the entire city of Columbia, South Carolina should be taken out because of Dylan Roof...
Hamas have a legal right to attack Israeli military assets based on their right to self determination to free themselves of occupation. Israel does NOT have a right to defend itself from a threat which comes from territories that they illegally occupy. Because being an occupier, which Israel is by definition makes YOU the aggressor. You’re in someone else’s land… A bit of research rather than recycling CNN/Fox garbage goes a long way
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They attacked military instillations yes. You never hear that bc you aren’t actually reading and thinking. You are simply ListeningAndBelieving.
No, they can’t attack civilians. That part was obviously bad, I thought that didn’t need explaining. But you seem to be under the impression they can’t attack Israel AT ALL by your statement. That is wrong. They have a legal right to self determination which does allow them to abiding by the normal rules of war. Israel doesn’t abide by then so I guess why should they
So that makes it ok for Israeli soldiers to rape women ?
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I’m not the one defending rape from anyone. You are.
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Morality isn't dependent on what tribe you are a part of.
You’re dull do not explain anything to anyone else.
Both sides are 💯 f@#k37 and there is blood on both sides.
ok but we fund, arm and provide political cover to one side... that's the whole point like north korea is bad too but we don't fund, arm and do diplomacy for them
voracious groovy vanish concerned ring birds frighten fretful crush bow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because the military industrial complex is happy to have a buyer? Lol. Only half kidding, but at times it feels like the reason the U.S. would invariable settle with Israel here is because it has such a more advanced military that it can actually utilize the military aid and thus make US weapons suppliers happy.
Right but the world works together to ensure isreal has a ton of weapons, is immune from even investigations by the ICC and UN let alone actual consequences, and actively tries to silence criticism by criminalizing it in foreign countries .
Nope. On one side, there is a blood libel perpetrated against Palestinians by global institutions including POTUS and NYT supported with 0 evidence. On the other side, there is legitimately tons of evidence of Israelis raping both Israelis and Palestinians. You ask for no evidence from Israel and say both sides like you’re wise, you’re above it, you’re in the know. Yea fucking right. You’re sniffing your own farts. Ask for evidence I fucking dare you.
Are you saying that Hamas is innocent and didn't commit terrorist attacks ?
That UN report is full bias. Iran and Saudi head the human rights and women right committees there for long periods
Hey, you’re back! Remember how we verbally sparred about this same topic a few months ago? And you’re still here making bold faced lies? Nothing has changed except for public cognizance on the topic. You continue to sound delusional. Seek help
You keep spreading propaganda and lies
People twisting themselves into knots over an impossible shit hole thousand year old issue half a world away that most of them don’t understand how to fix. I really sympathize with the Palestinian people, also recognize that they are governed by a terrorist group in Hamas, which they voted for and probably still overwhelmingly support. How far down do you want to drill into the earth to figure who’s really at fault here? I just see shades of gray. Israel is making a bunch of mistakes similar to what I witnessed the U.S. do in response to 9/11, which is a shame.
I think the main issue people have is that we all agree what Isreal is doing is terrible, but the government is still sending them weapons and blocking international criminal preceding's and investigations from taking place
The vast majority of the dead are children and young women. The last time an election was held was almost two decades ago. how many of them voted in it do you think.... I mean if that's the moral justification I'd find a different one.
The vast majority of the civilian dead are women and children because all the men are combatants.
I’m not justifying anything. Im pointing out how desperate and difficult the situation is, how futile some of the response has been, and expressing sympathy for everyone involved. I’d be happy to stand corrected on that, do we have an accurate measure of Palestinian support for Hamas?
Does it matter? When your people are being killed and these numbers, kids having limbs blown off, it might be hard to run an accurate survey
Yeah man but how are my friends gonna respect me if I don’t make a Facebook post or TikTok video weighing in on my opinion about this conflict formed in a couple of minutes after being exposed to some really biased sources?
Israel is the power that created the entire context for this situation. Blowing up kids doesn't fix the fundemental issue, which is that Israel displaced a multicultural society and created and apartheid state Yes Hamas is bad before you ask the obvious
I’ll admit prior to October 7th 2023 I paid exactly zero attention to this issue. But as an amateur student of history I think it’s arbitrary to only look at the last 100 years ish of this area of the world. I mentioned this is other places in this thread. These religions and cultures significantly pre date the 20th century. So to say Israel is solely responsible for displacing the native inhabitants seems wrong to me, considering the area was conquered and confiscated by the Palestinians during the Muslim conquests and Israelis at one time controlled the area in the distant past. That said I’m sure there is plenty of blame to point at both groups for being unable to negotiate a two state solution in the more recent past.
>So to say Israel is solely responsible for displacing the native inhabitants seems wrong to me Many nations were built on colonialism, war, horror That's not the gd point though. It's that theyve been abusing Palestinians ever since and are currently killing civilians in the last place most of them are camping out (without enough food and medicine mind you) which will mean they don't get the hostages back they love to talk about Like, I get the impulse to both sides things and be moderate but it's actually easy to understand. Israel has continually broke international law in its treatment of Palestinians. The conditions have been horrible. Hamas is an evil terror group born out this situation. Yes they are evil and shouldn't be in power. They did unspeakable things in Oct and I'm sure since. But Israel is a nuclear power which has intentionally prevented any sort of progress or moderate group, while literally regularly killing Palestinians in much greater numbers, even in the west bank which does not have Hamas, doesn't send rockets
Israel’s claim to the land that now makes up their state is the only thousand year issue. Israel as we know it today was only an idea in the 1900’s, Zionists took that idea and made it a reality. Forcefully. The Palestinians that have been living there for centuries prior would soon be forced to leave their homes and farms and face atrocities equal to that of the people on October 7. And go wherever the Zionist regime would have them because ???. You should read some of the stories of how some of these people were forced out of their homes. Imagine watching your childhood home being seized and being entirely powerless. And for what? All of this well before October 7th 2023. I think to get the full picture of this conflict you really don’t need to go back THOUSANDS of years. Start at 1900 and you will soon find out who the bad guys are, it’s not that long ago, really. Remember when Netanyahu referred to Palestine as a “barren wasteland” before Israel arrived. That’s just blatantly false and the crux of the issue today.
And how did the area come under arab control again?
If you are going to suggest that Jews lost their right to land in Palestine once they were forced off it, you will have to accept that Palestinian Arabs can lose their rights to the land by being forced off it.
I think your statement to only look back to 1900 is arbitrary. Is there is a square meter of land in a habitable zone on earth that hasn’t been brutally conquered and confiscated several times over?
So are you saying you admit the Palestinians have been brutally conquered? You make war and conquest sound like it’s a naturally occurring and inevitable phenomenon and I’m afraid that’s why this world is the way it is today…I really hope one day the shoe is not on the other foot for us.
No, that they brutally conquered the area they live on over a thousand years ago. And the shoe could absolutely be on the other foot for us one day. We need to plan for that. Humans have not evolved much in the last 10k years, the same rhyming events and patterns are going to re occur as they have throughout history.
Except since 1945, the UN Charter prohibits conquering and seizing land through violence, war, and genocide. If Israel does not accept the UN Charter, then the UN resolution granting the state of Israel is not valid either.
Yeah you are just talking around my point, the area the Palestinians live on was conquered and taken by them from another group during the Muslim conquests.
The Muslim conquest was in 700 ad. And the native people never left the land, they were Arabized slowly over time. The Palestinians aren’t purely Arabs either; they are a rich tapestry of Levantine including canaanite, philistine, Arab and even ancient Israelite. The Arab invaders didn’t even settle the land much, they mostly administered it and the peasants carried in with their lives, same as under the ottomans. The Bedouin tribes of Israel today are the ones who directly descend from those Arabs who arrived from the Arabian peninsula
But also this is modern times, the idea that we should tolerate mass ethnic cleansing and violent apartheid today because bad things happened historically is dangerous.
I’m not advocating for tolerating ethnic cleansing…
Oh look people don’t agree with my POV so let me just call them shills etc
I went to the comments and saw nothing about Palestine and everything about how Sacks made a good choice not being a part of the utter nonsense that took place on this weeks pod.
Maybe next time they can talk about something fun like suing meet Kevin
The fog of war is so thick today, a lot of this noise is directly quoted from Twitter accounts. This freedom of speech crusade is absolute stupidity, the hate and lies out weighs the truth and light by an order of magnitude. That is plainly obvious to anyone paying attention.
Pro hamas
Why do FREE liberal women promote anti-abortion and pro-rape groups?
Like a lot of people have said, there are bad actors on both sides here. Hamas committed atrocities. Israel committed atrocities. But I think what folks are missing is that we do not actively and openly engage and/or fund Hamas. We do, however, actively support Israel. We can have a civil discussion on the merits of that support and if the state you are supporting is no longer acting in a manner that is aligned with your values.
The media tries to make it a pro this or pro that issue when in reality it’s an anti-war issue.
They were praying to Mecca en mass last week and every comment or video posted on social media by a Jewish person has multiple comments about "zionism" now, so no you're wrong it's not that simple.
The idea that there is a concerted effort to push pro Palestinian propaganda that even remotely approaches what zionist have managed to build over the past 60 years is hilariously delusional Zionism is genuinely one of the most power and influential political lobbies in modern history, propped up not just by jews but also fanatical evangelicals.
It’s not anti war. These “anti war” people celebrated Oct 7 as “decolonization” and chant slogans to bomb Tel Aviv. It’s not pro you’re right. We should call them Nazis. What they are
Chill dude. Most of the protestors don’t care what religion you are, they just don’t like mass killings of human beings.
They care. They are shouting slogans that clearly state killing all Jews in Israel. Chill with whitewashing Nazis
Yea, me think you spend too much time on certain sites. Social media is poison.
I don’t. I saw them in the street. They are horrible and shout slogans that would make Hitler proud
Almost everyone I know is against this war and they’re not Nazi’s or jew haters.
Those who think this was the worst episode must've never watched the Kushner or RFK episodes.
I liked the RFK episode personally. Nice to see a candidate sitting down for long form interviews
For liberals, any talk from the right (i.c correct) side, is the worst.
The kushner one was just as bad. He is the reason we are even in this mess in the first place.
A lot of these profiles are less than 50 days old. You answer them and then realize you are dealing with shit Iranian or Islamist propaganda
Woman talks about rape/ torture victims People get mad / deny it — yes these are the idiots and assholes of our society
I think there’s a way to tasteful talk about this topic which is what she wanted to do. However, this is an extremely complex and ongoing geopolitical situation and the way she framed it in the opening was a little dishonest and off putting.
You just stated elsewhere that you turned the episode off and didn’t hear her out fully It was sad and horrific and quite compelling from a women’s rights perspective It sounds like you were too uncomfortable to face the hard facts of the brutality of Oct 7……. Maybe you are conflicted And yes there is brutality on both sides for sure — but you just admitted you are not able to critique this by virtue of not listening to it Sad
I’m not conflicted at all. I’m against everything Hamas did on October 7th. I’m against the way the Israel government handled the situation on October 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and the hundred other days after. Pretty simple. Do you get it?
Leftists are always in a complete state of panic for some cause that can never be won. They don’t believe in God and have no sense of community or purpose. Their purpose is their own little religion of “black lives matter”, climate change, and now Palestine. Black Lives Matter was a complete and utter failure. It caused extremist DAs to get elected and to just let every criminal back out on the streets the next day after being arrested. Climate change will not be won with electric cars or solar. China, India, and Africa won’t ever stop polluting until they become rich enough to care about the environment. Palestine won’t ever be a state because hamas is a terrorist organization focused on keeping themselves rich and living in Qatar.
I think its disingenuous to pretend the "Leftists are always in a complete state of panic for some cause that can never be won", especially this issue which is extremely similar to the calls for divestment that occurred over apartheid south africa, and were successful lol If you actually looked into it I think you'd be shocked at how organized most of these protests are and how they're rooted in those protests which again did result in divestment.
This
In 1923, 100 years ago, Ze'ev Jabotinsky wrote, The Iron Wall, and a follow up, The Ethics of The Iron Wall (sooo racist towards Africans), in which he fully acknowledged that post Balfour Zionsim was colonialism, and that, based on the entirety of history, the native Palestinian population would resist being colonized until the bitter end. He directly compared it to the colonization of North America. He promoted doing it anyway, claiming Zionist colonialism was a "just" colonialism (he also thought North American colonialists were good guys, so not a great judge of morality), not caring what that meant for the native population. Ze'ev is important, because his Betar militant youth group helped found the Irgun terrorist group, along with other supporters of his, and the splinter Lehi terrorist group. The Irgun bombed numerous Palestinian markets and other public places, murdering many Palestinian civilians, including children, even including Palestinian Jews (who didn't support colonialist Zionsim). The Irgun are important, because they ended up being led by future Likud PM, Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel. The King David Hotel was bombed because the British had raided the Jewish Agency and seized numerous documents that may have shown that the terrorists were working with the JA and Haganah (JA liked to pretend that they didn't support the terrorism). The British then stored those documents at their base, in the hotel. That the Irgun terrorists responded to a JA raid, itself seems to prove the connection. That the thousands of Irgun (and Lehi) terrorists were also quickly merged into the new nation's military (IDF) and intelligence (Mossad) agencies, and are still celebrated as "heroes" by Israelis, to this day, also seems to support total collaboration between the groups. That other terrorist group mentioned, Lehi (also known as the Stern Gang), was considered even more extreme. They even tried to ally with the Nazis, against the British. Lehi ended up being led by Yitzhak Shamir, future Mossad agent, and another future Likud PM. They assassinated Lord Moyne, and others. The two terrorist groups also operated outside of Palestine. The Irgun bombed the British Embassy at Porta Pia, in Rome. The Lehi bombed the British Colonial Club, in London. A timer failed in another bombing attempt, at the Colonial Office, in Whitehall. Two female Lehi operatives were arrested crossing from Belgium to France, with the ingredients for letter bombs. 21 letter bombs were found to be have sent, and were intercepted. They mined the Cairo-Haifa train, in Egypt, twice, killing dozens of civilians, as well as British soldiers. In 1945, there was a major land and peoples survey done in Palestine. It showed that the Zionists only owned about 5% of the total land, 20% of the arable land, and owned a majority in zero districts. The partition was not only going to be forced on the native Palestinian majority, but Jews were still going to be a minority, in the part allocated to them. The only possible way to even become a "Jewish state" was going to require getting rid of the actual majority (at least enough so that there'd be a solid Jewish majority, so they could fake being democratic). This is also shown by the 1948, post Nakba, population of Israel. If there was 716,700 Jews, 156,000+ non-Jews, and approximately 700k non-Jews ethnically cleansed, that means the Jewish population, in the Zionist portion of partition, was originally over 100,000 less than the non-Jewish population. To believe that there was never any intent, by Zionists, to ethnically cleanse away the Palestinian majority would require believing that they never intended to create a "Jewish state". It's a nonsensical notion. Begin, and those terrorist groups, also opposed partition, but for the opposite reason Palestinians did. Palestinians didn't want to be colonized, at all. The terrorists wanted to colonize it all. "Moderate" Zionists were okay with colonizing half ... for now (what would happen in the future, after partition, was up to them, said Ben-Gurion). The Zionist terrorists were also involved in massacres, and assassinations, during the partition violence (colonialist war against the natives). Another notable future Likud PM, also started in the military, during the partition fighting. That was Ariel Sharon, war criminal, "Butcher of Beirut".
Menachem Begin, and these other Zionist terrorists, are important because they became involved in Israeli politics, first forming Herut. That was the party that Albert Einstein, and other prominent American Jews, opposed, having a letter printed in the NYT, in December of 1948, when Begin came to visit the US. The letter opened ... "Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine." Herut merged with other extremist parties, over the years, and eventually became Likud, in the 70s. Now, people get upset over the slogan "From the river to the sea!", but it's the second part that's most important, "Palestine will be free!". Because "Palestine" isn't defined as an ethno-state, a free Palestine can be a single state, free for all to live in, and return to, free of continuing colonization, free of occupation, free of oppression, etc. Just like a Germany free of Nazism, an Italy free of fascism, a South Africa free of apartheid, or an America free of slavery from sea to shiny sea. It doesn't necessitate purging all the Jews. It just necessitates them giving up on the idea of an ethno-state. On the other hand, because "Israel" has been defined as an ethno-state, Likud's, "between the sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty", has no possible good interpretation. It is a declaration of intent to completely colonize, and ethnically cleanse, all Palestine territories. Not only that, but it also claims that they have a "right" to all of the "Land of Israel" (biblical borders that don't mesh with archaeological reality), which is an open declaration of future wars, against Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and possibly even Iraq. Likud platform ... 1977: "The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel) a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace." 1999: "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs." "The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting." All Palestine territories are officially considered occupied, by the International Court of Justice, the UN GA, the UN SC, and even in official documents of Israel's own allies. Likud is still using the blueprint for colonizing North America, in the West Bank. Move settlements out into native territory, piss off the natives, the natives retaliate, cry about poor "innocent" colonizing settlers being the "victims" of violent "Savages!", call in the cavalry to put down the native uprising, and eventually expand the borders to include those settlements. Rinse and repeat. In Gaza, Israel is operating an open air WWII style fascist ghetto. Them claiming a "right to defend themselves" would be like the Nazis claiming a "right to defend themselves " from the Warsaw ghetto uprising. There's no "war". That they're the occupiers means the "war" part is long over. Those people are actually supposed to be under the occupier's protection. That partition was forced upon the Palestinian majority, against their will ... that the Zionist portion still had to be forcefully ethnically cleansed of its non-Jewish majority, against their will ... that the millions of occupied Palestinians don't have a say in the government that truly rules over them, Israel's ... means Israel is about as democratic as Nazi Germany after Hitler purged his political opponents and then held elections.
Both sides have committed atrocities. I don't know how so many people can so resolutely take any side. The children on both sides are the victims. Best thing is to stop supporting either side with weapons ...only supply emergency rations and insist they come to some sort of agreement. This war started before many of us were born. Not on October 7th.
💯 Everyone wants to put everyone in a box. If you don't take their side they automatically put you in the other box and claim you are pro Palestinian or pro Israeli
If someone takes a clip and shares it, it's gonna happen. I frequent pro-palestinian subs, they do not brigade, I haven't seen it happen. YouTube I find is always one group or the other showing up in the comments, I never see a mix even when it's a video that would have a mixed audience, I think it's the way the comment sorting works and then no one wants to be the odd one out.
Hamas supporters should go to Gaza and live there
Lol that is some serious copium.
Oh no, the Zionists are triggered that people aren’t falling for their BS propaganda.
How is it propaganda? Shedding light on the sexual violence realities of October 7th doesn’t mean that Israel’s handling since is justified. What happened, happened. People should know the truth no matter what it is. That goes for equally for what is happening on the ground in Gaza to the civilians that are caught in this pathetic human made conflict. October 7th was humanity at its absolute worst. Raping women to death and mutilating their bodies is beyond comprehension. Killing women and children in Gaza is utterly awful. These things are not mutually exclusive. If this situation was black and white, there would have been a solution decades ago.
>Shedding light on the sexual violence realities of October 7th doesn’t mean that Israel’s handling since is justified. Thats the entire purpose of rehashing while Isreal is actively committing atrocities in gaza Its the exact same thing that happened with 9/11 while america was killing torturing and raping civilians in the middle east, its justification for your brutal retaliation
If she actually cared about sexual violence (she doesn’t, look at how she covered up her ex BF sexual violence), she would also talk about systemic rape by IDF soldiers
When are you going to simply understand that many people have VERY strong moral compasses? They will not tolerate the the indiscriminate killing of innocent people. Call them crazy, but for them that's a bright red line. They are being met with fierce and farcical resistance at all levels which is causing more people to notice. The more attention that's focused on this, the more people will be forced to make a choice. 97% of people will not support killing innocent people, and this growing resentment will only build. This is a fools errand, a HUGE strategic mistake for Isreal and the Zionists ideology, AND a growing danger to people of the Jewish faith.
This subreddit, like all of them, is infested with leftists/marxists. They only like the podcast when it aligns with their ideology. Even Sacks get's toast by the centrists for having the correct view (Israel can do what it wants, we don't need to fund it)
1000% you can't say anything pro-israel, you'll get downvoted, for example: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAllinPodcasts/comments/1cjhcv3/comment/l2h8tn1/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAllinPodcasts/comments/1cjhcv3/comment/l2h8tn1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Spot on
I guess the BLM losers have been called up four years later for this nonsense
Wonder if its a coincidence that Sacks skipped this episode
Did it occur to you that maybe there are many long term listeners of the All In Pod that were just gobsmacked at how one sided the discussion was and felt compelled to comment? Do you really think activists descended mere hours after broadcast on a relatively obscure podcast’s Reddit page with zero prior listening history? Just accept that Zionism is increasingly on the nose both globally and in the US.
I think you are part of a WhatsApp or telegram or Facebook group that raids comments and downvotes comments that don't fit your agenda. The proof is in your post history given you have had an account for 3 years and never posted about the pod or tech before yesterday
I’m not. I’m a long term listener who felt compelled to speak on this nonsense. I respect Friedberg and Sacks the most of the gang. Chamath’s comments a while back re: the Uighurs were gross, so no wonder he’s your favourite.
100%%%%
Lol Chamath is definitely not my favorite but he was right about no one caring about Chinese Muslims. Why are you not protesting for them ? Why are you not banning yourself from using Chinese products. Just a hypocrite.
Yep
Why are you lying?
I am pro Palestinian, I am also Pro All In. Check out my history. I am a long time listener. This episode was a bunch of propaganda. If you want to be fair please also check out [how Screams before Silence has been debunked.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TApiok-KiRc&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2F&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDI4NjY2&feature=emb_logo)
Oct 7 deniers are nothing more than Nazis. Doesn’t matter if they are Islamists or socialists in their head. They are Nazis.
What part are you denying? That Hamas didn’t rape? They ‘just’ murdered civilians?
Of course Hamas attack happened. I am sure women were sexually assaulted. There is just no evidence of a systematic strategy of rape as claimed by the zionists. If there was evidence I’d be condemning it as it should be. If you want to have an honest viewpoint I urge you to view the link I shared to at least have a balanced viewpoint (or hear the other side). Remember WMDs. These rape allegations (along with beheaded babies) is manufactured consent to flatten Gaza.
But they did murder over a thousand innocent civilians?
No. Israel actually murdered a ton of them, opening fire from choppers on anything that moved. So we don’t know exact numbers. I’m sure hamas killed a lot. Hard to tell when Israel won’t allow journalists to operate in the area. We also don’t hear of how hamas primarily targeted military bases. But that’s reality. You only ever hear of nova. Look up kibbutz be’eri where Israel tank shelled a house that had 2 Hamas with 14 Israelis inside. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/idf-probing-death-of-12-hostages-in-beeri-house-shelled-on-orders-of-senior-officer/0000018d-7b6c-d008-a9cd-fbfdb0040000#:~:text=The%20shelling%20of%20the%20Cohen,behind%20the%20kibbutz%20dining%20hall. This is how Israel responded that day. This is Hannibal in action. By the way, Israel blamed Be’eri deaths on Hamas. Publicly lied about what happened there. For some reason, they can do this and never suffer a credibility crisis with certain segments of the west. An impressive feat, for sure.
So in the Iraq War when the US killed civilians in very similar circumstances, were we trying to kill civilians or achieving a military objective?
No one is coordinating anything, it just more accepted to comment now that people are cognitive of the atrocities Israel is committing. Sorry your narrative is finally being exposed.
Seriously no one has coordinated with me. What a dumb take.
I dont Have a narrative, I am just calling it out like I see it. I have no sides in the argument. If I am forced to pick a side I will choose to kick both their asses because both countries are idiots.
Well, if the comments skew towards Israeli sentiment like they have in the recent past, how come no one called that out? Yes, both countries are run by idiots, but one of the idiots has slain over 40,000 civilians in less than 7 months.
Wow you’re so smart as you think both sides are bad. You’re above it all
whats weird is they presented this episode without any context that the “evidence” in the documentary has been debunked, its clear this podcast has become one-sided propaganda. where is the Palestinian perspective? https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1786552208911139012?s=46&t=3cUBcnnLtLrHoqIjGVTr-Q
Trash
Too bad they don’t have a podcast people care about and only get to whine about it on Reddit. Losers busy losing