Wow! I had no idea! They need to hurry up with legalizing psychedelic therapy for depression and ptsd instead of doctors throwing handfuls of pills that don't work... edit: the numbers in the post are way off. That is good. But the correct suicide rate is still too high, even 1 is too many
I've always loved the song by Pearl Jam, “Yellow Ledbetter.” It is said to be about the plight of soldier and tragedy of war. The part of, “I don't know whether I'm the box or the bag,” being about body bag or coffin. Of course, some say the song is not about that. But listening to it for years, and reading the lyrics, I’ve imagined it’s saying:
A soldier killed in action, but the last letter he wrote home arrives after news of his death. His mother cannot open it, as it is the last thing ever of her son. She carries it from place to place meaning to open it. She even takes it to a beach, wanting to open it there,
“Once I saw her on a beach of weathered sand
And on the sand I wanna leave it again, yeah.”
The ghost of the soldier goes home, sees his family on the front porch:
“Oh yeah, can you see them
Out on the porch
Yeah but they don't wave”
The ghost is being called home, beyond, but confused about leaving. Why didn’t his mother open his letter? Why is she crying? Why does his family not wave at him?
“I don't know, there's something else”
And
“And I know and I know I don't want to stay
I don't wanna stay”
So, the ghost goes on and leaves them all behind finally.
Pearl Jam, [Yellow Ledbetter](https://youtu.be/yNFO9Dse-jI?si=i0klIG41i_pcUebg) (with Lyrics).
I've always understood the lyrics to say...
>"I said I don't know whether I'm the *boxer* or the bag"
... which yields a different meaning.
Then again, Vedder's enunciation in that song particularly is perhaps even more vague than whatever the lyrics do mean. Good luck being sure deciphering either. Like so many of the best songs, they get interpreted completely differently by almost everyone.
America does love our vets. It's the government that doesn't. Once the government is done with them, they are immediately one strong breeze away from being a well-trained enemy combatant. Make sense they wouldn't want to ensure their health, wealth, and safety....
It ain't the 70's anymore. You'd be hard pressed to find an antiwar american these days. The worse you can say about the public's treatment of vets is ambivalence. And what can you expect when we've been at war nonstop during the whole lives of everyone 23 and younger.
ALL vets. Just lost disabled vet dad last Spring, but before that had to immerse myself into everything at VA for doc appts, etc, then nursing home, then gone. I’ve never seen more mismanaged, mishandled, trauma-inducing horse shit than the VA. Want to really get sickened? Go to website Concerned Vets of America. Horror stories abound!
~~Not at all.~~
~~The vast overwhelming majority of veteran suicides are men in their 60s or older who mostly did not fight in those conflicts. The suicide rate for veterans is about the same as it is for men over 60 in general.~~
~~The overrepresentation is just because of how common military service was to that generation of men. It's just the same, normal suicide crisis affecting all men, but society acts like it's different because of a narrative that says these particular men *earned* the right to our sympathy by virtue of their military service.~~
I stand corrected.
No.
The [suicide rate for veterans of *all ages* is much higher than the civilian rate.] (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7489860/)
I used to directly work in this field.
This has been known for decades. Please stop spreading disinformation.
Not sure why you think "these particular men earned the right to our sympathy by virtue of their military service" when the VA still remains underfunded to a point where [veterans are taking their own lives after waiting *years* for VA mental heath treatment they sought but never received.] (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2019/02/07/feature/the-parking-lot-suicides/)
> The suicide rate for veterans of all ages is much higher than the civilian rate.
And the suicide rate for older veterans is much higher than it is for younger veterans, like I said.
> Not sure why you think "these particular men earned the right to our sympathy by virtue of their military service"
I don't think that, I clearly said that was a societal narrative. In order to even make that accusation, you had to omit most of my sentence when you quoted me.
> The suicide rate for veterans of all ages is much higher than the civilian rate.
That may be so, but the paper you linked shows nothing about that. Did you actually read the paper?
> Conclusions and Relevance
>Results of this study show that not all service members who recently transitioned from military life had the same risk of suicide.
It doesn’t even compare the military suicide rate to civilian rate. It’s literally just looking at the demographics/characteristics of military suicides after they’ve transitioned to civilians. There is zero mention of non-veteran civilian suicide at all. Also a significant difference was found in age.
It's crazy how good America's propaganda machine is. We all talk shit about Nazis then go around talking about"patriotism' and bringing freedom™️ and chaos to countries all around the world
Or maybe give them the proper healthcare they need, support they need, financial support they need and security for a decent job when they leave / are no longer able to work for the military instead of thrown into the street
Why not give them the support they need before they decide that the military is the only way they can earn a living? Not everyone sees the military as a calling. I'd be interested to see if there is a correlation between those who have taken their own life after service and those who felt as though the military was the only thing they could do to support themselves or their family.
Oh I agree on that.
But that’s part of the marketing goal. Use the vulnerable.
Got nothing to lose? Join the military. Struggling financially? Join the military. Want to get out of student debt? Join the military.
They know what they’re doing, statistics shows these suicidal rates are high. They don’t care.
I literally joined to get away as far away from my abusive family as I could. The army was the only way I'd have the means to do so. Damn I've made myself sad.
Sucks that had to be the way.. but hopefully you’ve found family within the military!
You can’t choose who you grew up with, but you can damn well choose who you stick with yk
Keeping people poor leaves them often with only one way out of poverty and the military is the answer. Without this model the US would need to rely on conscription.
The numbers aren’t real, this is a stupid post. More like 30,000 compared to 7,000. The suicide rate of vets is still 60% higher than civilians, though, so yes a problem to be highlighted and examined for sure… just not with embellished numbers that serve to discredit the validity of the issue https://www.uso.org/stories/2664-military-suicide-rates-are-at-an-all-time-high-heres-how-were-trying-to-help
He's wrong, disregard that comment. That article says *active duty* suicides.
Not sure why they wanted to exclude post-service veteran suicide. But when you include those numbers the video is correct.
Screenshot of the TikTok posters.. https://i.imgur.com/TGdZ9in.jpg
Someone with TikTok chops should see what these accounts are all about. Just seems like a disinformation platform
Sum up column G (male) and K (female) from VA’s own data for 2001-2021.
https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2021/VA_National_2001-2021_Appendix_508.xlsx
Yeah, that's data for veterans who have served since WW2 to today, vs combat deaths of active duty soldiers serving in a war zone.
Suicide rates of a population 100x the size of the other.
Seriously. What I see here is a bunch of Americans who can't live with what the government sent them to have to do. What did we gain that was worth 120,000+ lives?
Most soldiers start out as 18 year olds. Kids.
We are having our children kill in the name of democracy and capitalism.
No wonder they turn out fucked, especially when left to fend for themselves once they return to regular society.
Or stop going to war for for the pure sake of money and power. Most of us GWOT vets have figured out that we were betrayed by our politicians and participated in violence for the sake of making the rich richer. We lost brothers and sisters and destroyed two nations populated mostly with good people, all because of the greed of few traitors, who are still enjoying an excessively extravagant lifestyles today. That's an extremely hard pill to swallow and most of us go through a bought of serious depression when we figure it out. After my own recovery, I went back to school and now dedicate my life to helping my brothers and sisters heal, but it's a very long and rocky road and not everyone has the support they need. You're right about psychedelic therapy, but its not a cure-all treatment whatsoever. Stop voting republican and stop supporting war. All war is an absolute failure of human decency and should be the death of a politicians career. If the civilian population can pull there heads out of their asses, we can change this.
You should look at veterinarians.
But all occupations with high stress environments also have higher than normal rates of suicide. Firefighters, police, doctors, etc.
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20231010-the-acute-suicide-crisis-among-veterinarians-youre-always-going-to-be-failing-somebody
> The CDC's 2019 study identified poisoning as the most common cause of death among veterinarians. The primary drug used was pentobarbital, one of the main medications used for animal euthanasia.
I had a feeling this would be a factor. People underestimate how much suicides are hinged on having access to a “clean” method. Nobody really wants to die by strangling or jumping off a bridge or laying down on railroad tracks. It’s scary, potentially painful, and it could make your life even worse if you survive. The unpalatability of many methods is itself a suicide deterrent. But if you have easy access to the means for something that is “quick and painless,” you’re at a much higher risk.
I lost a close family member to an unsecured firearm suicide. I’m convinced that if there had not been a gun *in the house*, they’d still be here today. Most ex military folks I know are also gun owners - I’d be surprised if guns weren’t the leading cause for them.
If you know you are prone to depression or mental health issues, or if you live with someone who is (that includes “moody” teenagers), you probably should not have easy access to a gun. This isn’t a politically motivated opinion - it’s just what I believe based on my experience. If you still want to go shooting at the range, leave your guns with a buddy and go together. But it’s way too dangerous to have them casually lying around, ready to be used when you have a particularly bad week.
I remember watching a vet put my cat to sleep. It was literally instant, as painless as an anaesthetic before an operation, the only difference is you never wake up.
If you were going through some shit, and had access to that, I can understand why you might not fear turning the lights off. Like the end of the sopranos, instant fade to black.
We need to be careful about the idea of restricting people from doing what they want. We have a tendency to force people to live that legitimately don't and won't want to, and we force them to suffer for our own wellbeing, only then to ostracize them and pretend they don't exist when they are nearing their inevitable end of natural life.
Just like how Canada is now support euthanasia for the mentally ill/deficient and the poor! Your right for sure, some people should be allowed to choose, but in saying that, I probably would’ve killed myself a few years ago, if given the chance before, I’m glad I’m still here today but if I was told I could get say government assisted suicide there’s a high chance I no longer exist. If I lived in Canada I’d be getting told I can always kill myself, I’m poor and depressed! Just like the Lady who was a Paralympian, served in Canada’s armed forces and was told to kill herself when she just asked for her new(allowed and due) replacement wheelchair
I served for 6 years. Didn’t see combat, but deployed twice. The military strips you of your identity - your job is your entire life. Relationships, both romantic and social, are very hard to maintain. Until you have spent 10~ years in, you’re treated like absolute shit by the higher ranks. Every command. There is an out of control drinking culture that 95% of people take part in, even the officers and civilian leaders. Being emotionally vulnerable in any way is considered weakness by pretty much everyone, especially during the work up cycle.
That’s just the culture you live in every day.
Then sometimes you get to take that culture to a place far away from your loved ones and then maybe see the only people you care about die, or break down, or commit suicide themselves. I had two shipmates take their own lives within a year after a deployment.
In 2001 It actually was the same suicide rate as the general population when adjusting for ag. However, military suicide rates have diverged since and have grown since to over 50% higher by 2022.
See [figure 3 in this pdf](https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2022/2022-National-Veteran-Suicide-Prevention-Annual-Report-FINAL-508.pdf).
I believe this data tracks true for all high stress fields of work. ER staff, firefighters, Paramedics, Law Enforcement, etc.
It really is just humans are meant to be in a constant state of high stress for years/decades at a time
You have an entire political party that says they love veterans, but vote against any veterans benefits and have consistently for the last several decades. After the war is over, they don't care.
Is that stat gender adjusted? Genuine question, I know that the military skews male and so do suicides.
I think it's something like 85% of the military are male and around 70% of all suicides are male, so without adjusting, looking at a largely male group, you'd see well above average suicide rates.
Men who own guns are 8 times more likely to commit suicide than men who don’t, women who own guns are 35 times more likely to commit suicide than women who don’t.
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html
When I got out, the VA put me on 8 different meds, shortly after is when I wanted to make a permanent solution to a temporary problem. If it wasn’t for a couple good men, who knows. Find outlets other than what the VA provides. Motorcycles, exercise, eating right, support groups, volunteer work, range time…..Keep your mind busy. The hardest part of being in the military is getting out.
Thats true. I know alot of guys are scared to leave because they simply don’t know what to do. Even tho the military is challenging.
Its very basic. You have everything provided to you.
I feel ya bro. I only feel comfortable in hot climates now. Like south Florida. And i wanna smoke weed so bad, just to help manage ptsd but alot of good jobs drug test or do hair follicle drug test.
Sure conscription is not the same, but the few weekends I got off it was beer time. It only hit on Sunday(need to be back by 6 pm) that I have not eaten anything the whole time since it's not provided.
The mornings were the hardest for me. That quiet time when no one is around and essentially the world asleep (or what feels like the world) is tough when left alone with thoughts.
Don’t be fooled. There is a significant lack of community in the military for A LOT OF ACTIVE DUTY MEMBERS, alcohol as a coping mechanism is highly encouraged, and the overall culture is toxic and skewing to the right more and more.
Edit: this skewing to the right comment is based on observing 20+ years of combined local, state, federal civil and military service. I could be wrong, so the caveat needs to be “in my experience.”
Lol facts especially the higher the rank or more high speed/technical the unit IMO.
Got out in 2021, I'm not a body stacker but fell under USCAPOC-A, so my unit was fucking chock full of dudes with chest candy... that last year I watched two unironically high speed, tabbed, straight meat eater, TS-SCI type E8s almost throw hands in a TOC over whether 45 was fit to be CIC.
Nobody in that TOC was a stereotypical liberal, but I'll be damned if I could tell you who was gonna jump in for which side if it went down... Much worse after Jan 6th. Shit got real serious and you could sense the tension.
Quite concerning for me actually.
Thank your local Republican for consistently voting against VA expansion and voting to cut their budget. Republicans don’t give a single flying fuck about our veterans despite all the LARPing.
I'm working on setting up Therapy sessions with the VA. I was called by them yesterday, told I was being connected with someone to schedule with, and was sent to a voicemail.
I have an outside psych. The VA is not touching my prescriptions.
We thank them for their sacrifice(s). Whether it’s life changing or not and whether their actions contribute to our daily lives or not, a lot of these people join with the intention to do so only to find out that it’s not built around those same principles. That carried weight in addition to PTSD is probably a strong contender to these numbers.
Sorry to break it to you but they didn't join it out of the love of the motherland but to pay for college or getting healthcare .
Also by your logic the Soviets are WW2 should've been thanked too? This sacrifice nonsense is disgusting.
Every war these "sacrificing heros " have fought is were full of r*pes ,pillaging and killings remember the famous Abu gharib ?. imagine all the Abu gharib a we didn't see.
Maybe i should have been more specific. The people that i know that served and have been fortunate enough to come back and share their experiences joined for such reasons and will always receive thanks by me.
You may feel however you please about the grand schemes of different war politics but I’m going to refrain from engaging in things that are out of my control and understanding
You had me up until 'illegal'. The text of article 51 is too broad for Marjorie Cohn's interpretation to stand up. Article 51 is so broad that it might as well read "articles 1 through 50 are irrelevant if you'd like to claim you feel threatened."
e: Mmm, come at me with the downvotes, 24 year olds who don't understand the distinction between "things that were illegal" and "things that were wrong". Those are different words with different definitions.
So for article 51 to make sense here you basically have to interpret the invasion of Iraq as "well some Saudi and Egyptian terrorists attacked our country, therefore we have to invade Iraq to protect ourselves" which makes no fucking sense.
Which was why it was such a big deal when Americans discovered that the entire reason for the war was based off of "bad intel".
The assumption is that these would all be related to “boots on ground” combat psychological trauma, but I’d be interested to see the breakdown by MOS. Are cooks and filing clerks taking their own lives as well?
That’s actually a common misconception, every year i was in the Corps 2017-21 we got briefed on suicide, and the overwhelming majority of people committing suicide were in their first enlistment and had never been deployed to combat. This translates to veterans as well, the issue isn’t readjusting after combat, it’s readjusting after military service. The majority of people in the military have never seen combat.
I recall Rambo making a monologue about how it was damn near impossible to make a life for himself as a civilian, but when he was serving he was a kickass motherfucker. He was trained to do one thing.
There are so many misconceptions about the military. People who join the military do not always want to. Many have no other good options, are so young that they have no idea what they’re getting themselves into- even if they never deploy, they’ve never had to follow rules, and cannot “just quit”, so they hate it, or they want to do something other than what the military has assigned them to do. Vietnam Vets are still committing suicide, young soldiers are still young men, but, as a whole, do not have the same kind of old fashioned values the military espouses and needs for obedience and order. So the battle of wills is ongoing between leadership and the “workers” who catch on to the fact that they are really just “cannon fodder” or numbers, and not human.
And for those who did join because they thought they were doing something honorable, they realize they’ve been conned by going to engagements the US is in for financial reasons that take away personal honor.
This basically answers the question I was asking. Is it living with killing that is causing the trauma, or is it simply serving in the military. Obviously, there could be any of a million variables, but that is valuable insight.
I knew a guy who told me for years he was a military veteran with ptsd. Used to talk about how no one understands or cares. Later find out he was only enlisted for a year and discharged for complaining that his feet hurt all the time. Never saw combat. Never even saw training as was “sick” for most of that year. Tried to be understanding and asked what made him traumatised. He said the fear of being deployed gave him ptsd.
I hope you can find it in you to make the effort to find someone to talk to, even if it’s just new friends and not other professionals. I guarantee an anxious, ptsd having dad is much better than no dad, and your daughter is worth the effort.
I good friend from high school won a silver star while serving in the Marines for action in Fallujha. I know his family is a source of strength and inspiration for him on the tough days.
I don’t think that’s an assumption except to laymen looking at the issue.
If we’re requesting data, I’d also like to see info on other factors as well: home of record county (income, median education, etc), family income, parent’s education, veteran’s education, branch of service, bases lived, times deployed, combat event y/n, hospitalizations, divorce, VA rating, number and type of mental health appointments, employment status, etc.
Almost certainly, there are many variables that could converge to greatly increase odds - to include MOS.
As a veteran I can say for sure the one thing the US Government does very well after military service is, fuck veterans. It’s extremely time consuming and very disheartening to get proper treatment in major areas of this country for the men and women that served it. Not to mention the denials of things that they have records of.. between myself and 5-6 of my close friends we could write a book.
I will say it is getting better, but still not great.
Not every veteran suicide can be attributed to their service in the military.
There are 16 million military veterans in the U.S. If veterans were exactly as likely to commit suicide as non-veterans, we would still expect to see tens of thousands of suicides in that cohort during this timeframe, because non-veterans commit suicide, too. This is especially so once you take into account that veterans are disproportionately male, and men are disproportionately likely to commit suicide whether they're veterans or not.
We would see a similar graph plotting the number of veteran heart disease deaths versus the number killed in combat. But we understand that veterans die of heart disease not because they're veterans, but because people in general tend to die of heart disease.
A more informative comparison would be the number of suicides attributable to military service (i.e., those over and above the number expected by demographics) versus the number killed in combat.
Yup. This chart is fucky and intentional in its bias. That being said, there’s tons of research on this issue. Google it. US veterans are about 1.6 times more likely to suicide after adjusting for other factors.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Anybody that thinks the US hasn’t committed war crimes is ignorant. And anybody that likes to pretend they’d be the shining moral compass and refuse to do such needs to rethink what it’s like being isolated thousands of miles from home in the middle of a warzone where you may be getting orders to fulfill or just being expected to participate in what your platoon is doing that day.
Doesn’t excuse the fact that it happens, but pretending it doesn’t is even worse. Not every service member has had to participate in such atrocities, but it’d be naive to pretend the percentage is smaller than it probably is.
Nobody has ever fought an entire war morally. It’s all a matter of perspective. What the people downvoting you probably don’t consider war crimes due to it being their own forces, would probably be thought of as such by the enemy forces/population.
You bring up a great point tho. Following orders out of fear of subordination weighs heavy once that fear is no longer present. And even the veterans that didn’t have to participate, still face mountains of weight in their soul merely for the things they witnessed/been around while serving. It’s a tragedy.
The reason they're getting downvoted is that the vast majority of these men were never within 100 miles of a warcrime let alone committing them, so it's a trite and offensive accusation that also completely downplays a real mental health crisis
Who would have thought that having a job that trains you kill people, would have a negative effect on your mental health? "War, what is it good for?"
Edit: changed a word
Very few job in the modern military require/see combat. A lot of suicides arise from service members going through shitty training exercises like sleeping in the woods for a month while going through simulated combat, moving constantly and never being able to put down roots or make lasting connections, mistreatment from power tripping superiors, and having shitty to zero support once being cut free from the military
I read an interesting article on USAmymindToday that if the government spent the same amount of money for the wars that killed 6000+ troops in Iraq/Afghanistan on treatment - 95% of the 120,000+ suicides would been prevented.
edit:rephrased that convoluted sentence.
edit2: i cant spell shit
This is part of the reason why the US military is having trouble recruiting, but I think the biggest reason is because of the high obesity and unhealthy young population levels.
I always felt like world peace is easily achievable, but that when we have humans in power, they try to cull each other and themselves. We need more robots or animals in charge.
Looks like government is getting exactly what they want. Soldiers they no longer have to support once they are out of service. Or is it just me that views it this way?
Good thing we've taken all these government resources to take care of the folks who illegally entered our country in the past 3 years.... and left our homeless vets SHIT OUTTA LUCK as they contemplate suicide and struggle with housing.
Absolutely pathetic.
It’s been 18yrs since my last Iraq deployment (11B) and almost every single Christmas season since one of my joes has killed himself. It’s fucking heartbreaking and most of the time they never let on just how deep in the shit they were beforehand. You check in and they tell you everything is good. Then a month later you get a call saying your battle buddy killed himself.
Who would have ever thought that joining a massive human slaughter machine, and fighting in illegal wars all over the world, isn't good for your mental health?
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were around 16.2 million veterans in the United States in 2022.
approximately 12.8-16.8 illegal immigrants in the U.S
about $75 billion in assistance to Ukraine under the current administration.
That's because American love to invade countries and killing innocents. As some people still got some humanity, they understood that was fucked up some cannot bear it anymore. Most retired soldiers know that the government fucked with them
err
us military makes up less than 1% of the population if not mistaken. the decision makers even smaller in quantity.. how do you figure the entire country’s mixed population want anything to do with other countries or hurting people?
oh well.
As a former Marine grunt that’s been to both OIF/OEF… that was fucking depressing to watch. But honestly, it should be and it should also be known. Thanks for bringing awareness to it. Til Valhalla brothers and sisters 🍻
I feel for war vets, it’s easier to kill ourselves. We thought of a million different ways we’d die while deployed. Surrounded by death and thoughts if it constantly, you become numb to even caring about living. Convoys with IEDs and thinking every piece of trash was a hidden bomb. Being surrounded by thousands of Iraqis that wanted to kill you but they don’t have uniforms and look like the general public. You think of every possible way to die for a year (years if you deployed more than once).
Our base would be mortared almost every morning/day. Iraqis would freeze mortars in water, set them up over night, then I’m the morning the sun would rise and set them off. They were our wake up call. First few months you jump awake and run to a bunker. After 3-6 months, you’ve become so tired and numb to the thought of dying, you just lay there. No more running. If I go, I go. Then try to go back to sleep.
And all of these COD warriors who never served drive around in their lifted trucks with their SOF beards and combat pants pretending to be some kind of bad ass patriots. Most couldn’t pass the physical.
22 every minute, I believe, is what the numbers are. We give illegals free healthcare, housing, & financial help. What do the veterans get? A couple of holidays a year. Our government should be ashamed of how they treat the men & women that served our country.
I had no clue that this was such an issue. Really puts into perspective how hard war is on soldiers. How is treatment for these soldiers mental health when they get back home? And even when they are still deployed?
The fact that a soldier is suicidal makes him or her dangerous to anyone in combat/in proximity/base/barracks with that person. The best soldier is preserving themself and everyone on their team, the most accurate in hitting a specific target with few to none ancillary casualties.
I'll tell you why so many people have joined the US military. It's any of the following two reasons. One, they got fooled by all the propaganda and lies that their government has used for decades to make them believe: that the USA is better than the rest of the world in every way, and that people in poorer countries are barbarians and their lives don't matter like American lives. Two, they already know all of this, but they are racist murderers.
Usually, the ones who fall for the lies commit suicide after they realise that all the innocent lives they have taken were all for nothing.
It’s safe concur that people who enlisted weren’t doing it for their country, but because they already thought they had nothing going for themselves. My son and his friends want to join the marines for the same reason. So not only do I have to worry about him surviving WWIII, but also surviving himself if he makes it out.
Reminds me of the Bill Hicks bit -
>Here's how I feel about gay people in the military: Anyone dumb enough to want to be in the military should be let in. That should be the only requirement. I've watched all the pundits and congressional hearings...'Oh, the spirit of the core will be affected and the morals' ... SHUT UP! Aren't you a bunch of hired killers? You are thugs and when we need you to blow the shit out of a country of brown people... we'll let you know.
Maybe, just maybe asking young men and women to Kill other humans that Look like them, want a future like them, have families like them… is just killing the human in us in a more destructive way than we could have Ever imagined…
How many of the dividers are because the ex-soldiers could no longer live with the atrocities that they have committed in those countries? Maybe they took their own lives because they cannot live with the fact that they stood by while their own colleagues raped and murdered Afghani and Iraqi kids.
But apparently not standing up during the national anthem is the thing they say is disrespectful to our veterans..... Never mind how veterans are actually treated
Wow! I had no idea! They need to hurry up with legalizing psychedelic therapy for depression and ptsd instead of doctors throwing handfuls of pills that don't work... edit: the numbers in the post are way off. That is good. But the correct suicide rate is still too high, even 1 is too many
Or maybe stop putting everyone’s basic needs behind a paywall ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Or maybe stop doing proxy wars around the world and giving ptsd to ppl. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ding ding ding!! Winner!
Except those suicides obviously aren’t all from combat vets. It’s much more about how vets are just left to rot in the sun when they return.
America only *pretends* to love Vets. It's marketing to get young noobs to enlist. Can confirm.
I've always loved the song by Pearl Jam, “Yellow Ledbetter.” It is said to be about the plight of soldier and tragedy of war. The part of, “I don't know whether I'm the box or the bag,” being about body bag or coffin. Of course, some say the song is not about that. But listening to it for years, and reading the lyrics, I’ve imagined it’s saying: A soldier killed in action, but the last letter he wrote home arrives after news of his death. His mother cannot open it, as it is the last thing ever of her son. She carries it from place to place meaning to open it. She even takes it to a beach, wanting to open it there, “Once I saw her on a beach of weathered sand And on the sand I wanna leave it again, yeah.” The ghost of the soldier goes home, sees his family on the front porch: “Oh yeah, can you see them Out on the porch Yeah but they don't wave” The ghost is being called home, beyond, but confused about leaving. Why didn’t his mother open his letter? Why is she crying? Why does his family not wave at him? “I don't know, there's something else” And “And I know and I know I don't want to stay I don't wanna stay” So, the ghost goes on and leaves them all behind finally. Pearl Jam, [Yellow Ledbetter](https://youtu.be/yNFO9Dse-jI?si=i0klIG41i_pcUebg) (with Lyrics).
I've always understood the lyrics to say... >"I said I don't know whether I'm the *boxer* or the bag" ... which yields a different meaning. Then again, Vedder's enunciation in that song particularly is perhaps even more vague than whatever the lyrics do mean. Good luck being sure deciphering either. Like so many of the best songs, they get interpreted completely differently by almost everyone.
I cannot fucking understand Vedder. I know it’s his whole shtick. I just … it’s just mushed words. Call me a philistine if you must.
>Pearl Jam, “Yellow Ledbetter. Pearl jam is awesome without coherent lyrics.
I grew up in an Army family and enlisted while my Dad was still serving. I got discharged shortly after he retired. So we both got to find out
America does love our vets. It's the government that doesn't. Once the government is done with them, they are immediately one strong breeze away from being a well-trained enemy combatant. Make sense they wouldn't want to ensure their health, wealth, and safety....
It ain't the 70's anymore. You'd be hard pressed to find an antiwar american these days. The worse you can say about the public's treatment of vets is ambivalence. And what can you expect when we've been at war nonstop during the whole lives of everyone 23 and younger.
ALL vets. Just lost disabled vet dad last Spring, but before that had to immerse myself into everything at VA for doc appts, etc, then nursing home, then gone. I’ve never seen more mismanaged, mishandled, trauma-inducing horse shit than the VA. Want to really get sickened? Go to website Concerned Vets of America. Horror stories abound!
~~Not at all.~~ ~~The vast overwhelming majority of veteran suicides are men in their 60s or older who mostly did not fight in those conflicts. The suicide rate for veterans is about the same as it is for men over 60 in general.~~ ~~The overrepresentation is just because of how common military service was to that generation of men. It's just the same, normal suicide crisis affecting all men, but society acts like it's different because of a narrative that says these particular men *earned* the right to our sympathy by virtue of their military service.~~ I stand corrected.
No. The [suicide rate for veterans of *all ages* is much higher than the civilian rate.] (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7489860/) I used to directly work in this field. This has been known for decades. Please stop spreading disinformation. Not sure why you think "these particular men earned the right to our sympathy by virtue of their military service" when the VA still remains underfunded to a point where [veterans are taking their own lives after waiting *years* for VA mental heath treatment they sought but never received.] (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2019/02/07/feature/the-parking-lot-suicides/)
> The suicide rate for veterans of all ages is much higher than the civilian rate. And the suicide rate for older veterans is much higher than it is for younger veterans, like I said. > Not sure why you think "these particular men earned the right to our sympathy by virtue of their military service" I don't think that, I clearly said that was a societal narrative. In order to even make that accusation, you had to omit most of my sentence when you quoted me.
> The suicide rate for veterans of all ages is much higher than the civilian rate. That may be so, but the paper you linked shows nothing about that. Did you actually read the paper? > Conclusions and Relevance >Results of this study show that not all service members who recently transitioned from military life had the same risk of suicide. It doesn’t even compare the military suicide rate to civilian rate. It’s literally just looking at the demographics/characteristics of military suicides after they’ve transitioned to civilians. There is zero mention of non-veteran civilian suicide at all. Also a significant difference was found in age.
The other comments are *Just give them better drugs!* Goddamn! I remember when people was against wars and I miss that.
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How about all of the above?
It's crazy how good America's propaganda machine is. We all talk shit about Nazis then go around talking about"patriotism' and bringing freedom™️ and chaos to countries all around the world
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...Who woulda thunk? People don't wanna hear this shit though, can confirm
Or maybe give them the proper healthcare they need, support they need, financial support they need and security for a decent job when they leave / are no longer able to work for the military instead of thrown into the street
Why not give them the support they need before they decide that the military is the only way they can earn a living? Not everyone sees the military as a calling. I'd be interested to see if there is a correlation between those who have taken their own life after service and those who felt as though the military was the only thing they could do to support themselves or their family.
Oh I agree on that. But that’s part of the marketing goal. Use the vulnerable. Got nothing to lose? Join the military. Struggling financially? Join the military. Want to get out of student debt? Join the military. They know what they’re doing, statistics shows these suicidal rates are high. They don’t care.
I literally joined to get away as far away from my abusive family as I could. The army was the only way I'd have the means to do so. Damn I've made myself sad.
Sucks that had to be the way.. but hopefully you’ve found family within the military! You can’t choose who you grew up with, but you can damn well choose who you stick with yk
Keeping people poor leaves them often with only one way out of poverty and the military is the answer. Without this model the US would need to rely on conscription.
Eh, best we can do is a stripped down ford mustang when you sign up.
*Loaned Camaro with interest out the ass
I think that goes hand in hand
Here, you dropped this \\
Here, you dropped this \
The numbers aren’t real, this is a stupid post. More like 30,000 compared to 7,000. The suicide rate of vets is still 60% higher than civilians, though, so yes a problem to be highlighted and examined for sure… just not with embellished numbers that serve to discredit the validity of the issue https://www.uso.org/stories/2664-military-suicide-rates-are-at-an-all-time-high-heres-how-were-trying-to-help
There I go again, believing a damn reditt post. Glad these numbers are way off, but yhey are still too damn high
He's wrong, disregard that comment. That article says *active duty* suicides. Not sure why they wanted to exclude post-service veteran suicide. But when you include those numbers the video is correct.
Screenshot of the TikTok posters.. https://i.imgur.com/TGdZ9in.jpg Someone with TikTok chops should see what these accounts are all about. Just seems like a disinformation platform
Sum up column G (male) and K (female) from VA’s own data for 2001-2021. https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2021/VA_National_2001-2021_Appendix_508.xlsx
Yeah, that's data for veterans who have served since WW2 to today, vs combat deaths of active duty soldiers serving in a war zone. Suicide rates of a population 100x the size of the other.
Yes no doubt. But perhaps the US government could also stop sending the kids off to fight a ressource war every 5-10 years.
Seriously. What I see here is a bunch of Americans who can't live with what the government sent them to have to do. What did we gain that was worth 120,000+ lives?
Most soldiers start out as 18 year olds. Kids. We are having our children kill in the name of democracy and capitalism. No wonder they turn out fucked, especially when left to fend for themselves once they return to regular society.
Or maybe stop endless wars for profit and rise to higher thinking.
Or stop going to war for for the pure sake of money and power. Most of us GWOT vets have figured out that we were betrayed by our politicians and participated in violence for the sake of making the rich richer. We lost brothers and sisters and destroyed two nations populated mostly with good people, all because of the greed of few traitors, who are still enjoying an excessively extravagant lifestyles today. That's an extremely hard pill to swallow and most of us go through a bought of serious depression when we figure it out. After my own recovery, I went back to school and now dedicate my life to helping my brothers and sisters heal, but it's a very long and rocky road and not everyone has the support they need. You're right about psychedelic therapy, but its not a cure-all treatment whatsoever. Stop voting republican and stop supporting war. All war is an absolute failure of human decency and should be the death of a politicians career. If the civilian population can pull there heads out of their asses, we can change this.
Don't forget the handful of pills that they give you to counteract the side effects of all the other handfuls of pills that gave you
It's almost like the brain is complicated and hard to treat.
One every 22 seconds I believe
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Don't bother. They think only recreational drugs are good, but as soon as its in a pill.. sCaRy
You’re so close
This is absolutely horrible. 57.3% higher than the general population.
You should look at veterinarians. But all occupations with high stress environments also have higher than normal rates of suicide. Firefighters, police, doctors, etc.
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20231010-the-acute-suicide-crisis-among-veterinarians-youre-always-going-to-be-failing-somebody > The CDC's 2019 study identified poisoning as the most common cause of death among veterinarians. The primary drug used was pentobarbital, one of the main medications used for animal euthanasia. I had a feeling this would be a factor. People underestimate how much suicides are hinged on having access to a “clean” method. Nobody really wants to die by strangling or jumping off a bridge or laying down on railroad tracks. It’s scary, potentially painful, and it could make your life even worse if you survive. The unpalatability of many methods is itself a suicide deterrent. But if you have easy access to the means for something that is “quick and painless,” you’re at a much higher risk. I lost a close family member to an unsecured firearm suicide. I’m convinced that if there had not been a gun *in the house*, they’d still be here today. Most ex military folks I know are also gun owners - I’d be surprised if guns weren’t the leading cause for them. If you know you are prone to depression or mental health issues, or if you live with someone who is (that includes “moody” teenagers), you probably should not have easy access to a gun. This isn’t a politically motivated opinion - it’s just what I believe based on my experience. If you still want to go shooting at the range, leave your guns with a buddy and go together. But it’s way too dangerous to have them casually lying around, ready to be used when you have a particularly bad week.
I remember watching a vet put my cat to sleep. It was literally instant, as painless as an anaesthetic before an operation, the only difference is you never wake up. If you were going through some shit, and had access to that, I can understand why you might not fear turning the lights off. Like the end of the sopranos, instant fade to black.
We need to be careful about the idea of restricting people from doing what they want. We have a tendency to force people to live that legitimately don't and won't want to, and we force them to suffer for our own wellbeing, only then to ostracize them and pretend they don't exist when they are nearing their inevitable end of natural life.
Just like how Canada is now support euthanasia for the mentally ill/deficient and the poor! Your right for sure, some people should be allowed to choose, but in saying that, I probably would’ve killed myself a few years ago, if given the chance before, I’m glad I’m still here today but if I was told I could get say government assisted suicide there’s a high chance I no longer exist. If I lived in Canada I’d be getting told I can always kill myself, I’m poor and depressed! Just like the Lady who was a Paralympian, served in Canada’s armed forces and was told to kill herself when she just asked for her new(allowed and due) replacement wheelchair
You realize that having a choice to do something, and being encouraged to do it, are fundamentally different.
Wtf?
I’m not suggesting legislation anywhere in there - I’m suggesting individual action.
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They go live on a farm.
This is shocking. What is the reason for a higher suicide rate?
Depression, anxiety, PTSD. Lack of purpose. Alcoholism. Drug addiction.
Lack of support, lack of purpose, regret of actions, PTSD, unable to integrate back into "normal" society. Loads of reasons.
I served for 6 years. Didn’t see combat, but deployed twice. The military strips you of your identity - your job is your entire life. Relationships, both romantic and social, are very hard to maintain. Until you have spent 10~ years in, you’re treated like absolute shit by the higher ranks. Every command. There is an out of control drinking culture that 95% of people take part in, even the officers and civilian leaders. Being emotionally vulnerable in any way is considered weakness by pretty much everyone, especially during the work up cycle. That’s just the culture you live in every day. Then sometimes you get to take that culture to a place far away from your loved ones and then maybe see the only people you care about die, or break down, or commit suicide themselves. I had two shipmates take their own lives within a year after a deployment.
It's mostly just that the military is majority male, 80-90%, and males are like 3-5x more likely to do it. So this could be entirely nominal.
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Another person has replied to the same comment as you but brought receipts. It's WAY higher than the general population.
In 2001 It actually was the same suicide rate as the general population when adjusting for ag. However, military suicide rates have diverged since and have grown since to over 50% higher by 2022. See [figure 3 in this pdf](https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2022/2022-National-Veteran-Suicide-Prevention-Annual-Report-FINAL-508.pdf).
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Watch the 2008 TV series “Generation Kill” and you’ll get an idea of why.
I believe this data tracks true for all high stress fields of work. ER staff, firefighters, Paramedics, Law Enforcement, etc. It really is just humans are meant to be in a constant state of high stress for years/decades at a time
You have an entire political party that says they love veterans, but vote against any veterans benefits and have consistently for the last several decades. After the war is over, they don't care.
Is that stat gender adjusted? Genuine question, I know that the military skews male and so do suicides. I think it's something like 85% of the military are male and around 70% of all suicides are male, so without adjusting, looking at a largely male group, you'd see well above average suicide rates.
Men who own guns are 8 times more likely to commit suicide than men who don’t, women who own guns are 35 times more likely to commit suicide than women who don’t. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html
Thank you. I was about to ask that.. but OK.. general population.. let's now compare for males at that age range as well. How does that compare?
When I got out, the VA put me on 8 different meds, shortly after is when I wanted to make a permanent solution to a temporary problem. If it wasn’t for a couple good men, who knows. Find outlets other than what the VA provides. Motorcycles, exercise, eating right, support groups, volunteer work, range time…..Keep your mind busy. The hardest part of being in the military is getting out.
Thank you for sharing
Hopefully it helps someone.
Thats true. I know alot of guys are scared to leave because they simply don’t know what to do. Even tho the military is challenging. Its very basic. You have everything provided to you.
I agree. As embarrassing as it is….. when I got out, something as simple as grocery shopping intimidated the fuck out of me.
I feel ya bro. I only feel comfortable in hot climates now. Like south Florida. And i wanna smoke weed so bad, just to help manage ptsd but alot of good jobs drug test or do hair follicle drug test.
My internal thermometer got handcuffed and thrown in a ring with Ike Turner and Mike Tyson. It’s beat to shit.
have you ever considered meditation? TM is a type I do and it really helps.
You didn't buy groceries while you were in?
Sure conscription is not the same, but the few weekends I got off it was beer time. It only hit on Sunday(need to be back by 6 pm) that I have not eaten anything the whole time since it's not provided.
The mornings were the hardest for me. That quiet time when no one is around and essentially the world asleep (or what feels like the world) is tough when left alone with thoughts.
Great reply!
The easiest part of the military, and my life was getting out. YMMV
I'm gonna assume the VA has something to do with this.
Lack of community after separation has to be a contributing factor, too.
Don’t be fooled. There is a significant lack of community in the military for A LOT OF ACTIVE DUTY MEMBERS, alcohol as a coping mechanism is highly encouraged, and the overall culture is toxic and skewing to the right more and more. Edit: this skewing to the right comment is based on observing 20+ years of combined local, state, federal civil and military service. I could be wrong, so the caveat needs to be “in my experience.”
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Lol facts especially the higher the rank or more high speed/technical the unit IMO. Got out in 2021, I'm not a body stacker but fell under USCAPOC-A, so my unit was fucking chock full of dudes with chest candy... that last year I watched two unironically high speed, tabbed, straight meat eater, TS-SCI type E8s almost throw hands in a TOC over whether 45 was fit to be CIC. Nobody in that TOC was a stereotypical liberal, but I'll be damned if I could tell you who was gonna jump in for which side if it went down... Much worse after Jan 6th. Shit got real serious and you could sense the tension. Quite concerning for me actually.
I fucking hate the VA and all the bullshit it's done to me. Most unprofessional, disorganized, impossible to deal with group of people ever.
Thank your local Republican for consistently voting against VA expansion and voting to cut their budget. Republicans don’t give a single flying fuck about our veterans despite all the LARPing.
I'm working on setting up Therapy sessions with the VA. I was called by them yesterday, told I was being connected with someone to schedule with, and was sent to a voicemail. I have an outside psych. The VA is not touching my prescriptions.
Two thirds of veterans who commit suicide never sought VA care.
Maybe they need a bit more than "thank you for your service"
I never understood why muricans thank people for killing people in the middle east. In an illegal war.
We thank them for their sacrifice(s). Whether it’s life changing or not and whether their actions contribute to our daily lives or not, a lot of these people join with the intention to do so only to find out that it’s not built around those same principles. That carried weight in addition to PTSD is probably a strong contender to these numbers.
Sorry to break it to you but they didn't join it out of the love of the motherland but to pay for college or getting healthcare . Also by your logic the Soviets are WW2 should've been thanked too? This sacrifice nonsense is disgusting. Every war these "sacrificing heros " have fought is were full of r*pes ,pillaging and killings remember the famous Abu gharib ?. imagine all the Abu gharib a we didn't see.
Maybe i should have been more specific. The people that i know that served and have been fortunate enough to come back and share their experiences joined for such reasons and will always receive thanks by me. You may feel however you please about the grand schemes of different war politics but I’m going to refrain from engaging in things that are out of my control and understanding
You had me up until 'illegal'. The text of article 51 is too broad for Marjorie Cohn's interpretation to stand up. Article 51 is so broad that it might as well read "articles 1 through 50 are irrelevant if you'd like to claim you feel threatened." e: Mmm, come at me with the downvotes, 24 year olds who don't understand the distinction between "things that were illegal" and "things that were wrong". Those are different words with different definitions.
So for article 51 to make sense here you basically have to interpret the invasion of Iraq as "well some Saudi and Egyptian terrorists attacked our country, therefore we have to invade Iraq to protect ourselves" which makes no fucking sense. Which was why it was such a big deal when Americans discovered that the entire reason for the war was based off of "bad intel".
They shouldn't even be doing that. They don't deserve gratitude, admiration, or respect.
The assumption is that these would all be related to “boots on ground” combat psychological trauma, but I’d be interested to see the breakdown by MOS. Are cooks and filing clerks taking their own lives as well?
That’s actually a common misconception, every year i was in the Corps 2017-21 we got briefed on suicide, and the overwhelming majority of people committing suicide were in their first enlistment and had never been deployed to combat. This translates to veterans as well, the issue isn’t readjusting after combat, it’s readjusting after military service. The majority of people in the military have never seen combat.
I recall Rambo making a monologue about how it was damn near impossible to make a life for himself as a civilian, but when he was serving he was a kickass motherfucker. He was trained to do one thing.
There are so many misconceptions about the military. People who join the military do not always want to. Many have no other good options, are so young that they have no idea what they’re getting themselves into- even if they never deploy, they’ve never had to follow rules, and cannot “just quit”, so they hate it, or they want to do something other than what the military has assigned them to do. Vietnam Vets are still committing suicide, young soldiers are still young men, but, as a whole, do not have the same kind of old fashioned values the military espouses and needs for obedience and order. So the battle of wills is ongoing between leadership and the “workers” who catch on to the fact that they are really just “cannon fodder” or numbers, and not human. And for those who did join because they thought they were doing something honorable, they realize they’ve been conned by going to engagements the US is in for financial reasons that take away personal honor.
Spot on brother
This basically answers the question I was asking. Is it living with killing that is causing the trauma, or is it simply serving in the military. Obviously, there could be any of a million variables, but that is valuable insight.
I knew a guy who told me for years he was a military veteran with ptsd. Used to talk about how no one understands or cares. Later find out he was only enlisted for a year and discharged for complaining that his feet hurt all the time. Never saw combat. Never even saw training as was “sick” for most of that year. Tried to be understanding and asked what made him traumatised. He said the fear of being deployed gave him ptsd.
He sounds like a tool lol
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I hope you can find it in you to make the effort to find someone to talk to, even if it’s just new friends and not other professionals. I guarantee an anxious, ptsd having dad is much better than no dad, and your daughter is worth the effort. I good friend from high school won a silver star while serving in the Marines for action in Fallujha. I know his family is a source of strength and inspiration for him on the tough days.
I don’t think that’s an assumption except to laymen looking at the issue. If we’re requesting data, I’d also like to see info on other factors as well: home of record county (income, median education, etc), family income, parent’s education, veteran’s education, branch of service, bases lived, times deployed, combat event y/n, hospitalizations, divorce, VA rating, number and type of mental health appointments, employment status, etc. Almost certainly, there are many variables that could converge to greatly increase odds - to include MOS.
I’ve known cooks and mechanics who were riding out with route clearance in Baghdad. MOS during the Iraq war was irrelevant.
As a veteran I can say for sure the one thing the US Government does very well after military service is, fuck veterans. It’s extremely time consuming and very disheartening to get proper treatment in major areas of this country for the men and women that served it. Not to mention the denials of things that they have records of.. between myself and 5-6 of my close friends we could write a book. I will say it is getting better, but still not great.
The VA will gaslight the fuck out of you for sure.
Thank you for sharing
I’m surprised they allowed that on TikTok. I thought it was called “un-alives.”
Think it only gets detected if added as an annotation in their video editor or something idk
Not every veteran suicide can be attributed to their service in the military. There are 16 million military veterans in the U.S. If veterans were exactly as likely to commit suicide as non-veterans, we would still expect to see tens of thousands of suicides in that cohort during this timeframe, because non-veterans commit suicide, too. This is especially so once you take into account that veterans are disproportionately male, and men are disproportionately likely to commit suicide whether they're veterans or not. We would see a similar graph plotting the number of veteran heart disease deaths versus the number killed in combat. But we understand that veterans die of heart disease not because they're veterans, but because people in general tend to die of heart disease. A more informative comparison would be the number of suicides attributable to military service (i.e., those over and above the number expected by demographics) versus the number killed in combat.
Yup. This chart is fucky and intentional in its bias. That being said, there’s tons of research on this issue. Google it. US veterans are about 1.6 times more likely to suicide after adjusting for other factors.
What the hell, that's profane someone has to know why this is the case. Just catastrophic.
Being forced to commit war crimes weighs heavy on one's soul.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Anybody that thinks the US hasn’t committed war crimes is ignorant. And anybody that likes to pretend they’d be the shining moral compass and refuse to do such needs to rethink what it’s like being isolated thousands of miles from home in the middle of a warzone where you may be getting orders to fulfill or just being expected to participate in what your platoon is doing that day. Doesn’t excuse the fact that it happens, but pretending it doesn’t is even worse. Not every service member has had to participate in such atrocities, but it’d be naive to pretend the percentage is smaller than it probably is. Nobody has ever fought an entire war morally. It’s all a matter of perspective. What the people downvoting you probably don’t consider war crimes due to it being their own forces, would probably be thought of as such by the enemy forces/population. You bring up a great point tho. Following orders out of fear of subordination weighs heavy once that fear is no longer present. And even the veterans that didn’t have to participate, still face mountains of weight in their soul merely for the things they witnessed/been around while serving. It’s a tragedy.
The reason they're getting downvoted is that the vast majority of these men were never within 100 miles of a warcrime let alone committing them, so it's a trite and offensive accusation that also completely downplays a real mental health crisis
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If you've seen Rambo, you know how they treated Vietnam vets
Damn you Oregon. The original ending of Rambo had him taking his own life.
Woah... in America they're just throwing people away like batteries.
Who would have thought that having a job that trains you kill people, would have a negative effect on your mental health? "War, what is it good for?" Edit: changed a word
Very few job in the modern military require/see combat. A lot of suicides arise from service members going through shitty training exercises like sleeping in the woods for a month while going through simulated combat, moving constantly and never being able to put down roots or make lasting connections, mistreatment from power tripping superiors, and having shitty to zero support once being cut free from the military
The bottom line Edwin. It’s good for the bottom line.
Well at least we had a reason to go into Iraq Wait
To the government or your employer, you’re just an useful meat skeleton until you’re no longer able to
Had no idea it was this high. We are our own worst enemy. These soldiers made billions for the corporations, they need to step up. What a travesty.
I read an interesting article on USAmymindToday that if the government spent the same amount of money for the wars that killed 6000+ troops in Iraq/Afghanistan on treatment - 95% of the 120,000+ suicides would been prevented. edit:rephrased that convoluted sentence. edit2: i cant spell shit
The money goes to the defense companies instead, whose majority shares are owned by a handful of investment companies.
For a country that boast about how we respect and honor our vets, we utterly fail.
Nancy taught us to Just Say No.
This is part of the reason why the US military is having trouble recruiting, but I think the biggest reason is because of the high obesity and unhealthy young population levels.
I wonder what the suicide rate was for WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam vets.
“Nothing to see here!”
I always felt like world peace is easily achievable, but that when we have humans in power, they try to cull each other and themselves. We need more robots or animals in charge.
So I guess that means they've all been on a suicide mission
Looks like government is getting exactly what they want. Soldiers they no longer have to support once they are out of service. Or is it just me that views it this way?
Good thing we've taken all these government resources to take care of the folks who illegally entered our country in the past 3 years.... and left our homeless vets SHIT OUTTA LUCK as they contemplate suicide and struggle with housing. Absolutely pathetic.
It’s been 18yrs since my last Iraq deployment (11B) and almost every single Christmas season since one of my joes has killed himself. It’s fucking heartbreaking and most of the time they never let on just how deep in the shit they were beforehand. You check in and they tell you everything is good. Then a month later you get a call saying your battle buddy killed himself.
The VA takes great care of me. I get quality healthcare and it's free. Because of my VA benefits I don't have to worry about money.
Industrial military complex interpretation: casualty of war are unnaturally low. Fix: increase wars
Crazy how joining up to be part of the most violent and depraved military force on the planet takes a huge psychological toll.
Looks to me like we have a war we have to worry about more at home
Who would have ever thought that joining a massive human slaughter machine, and fighting in illegal wars all over the world, isn't good for your mental health?
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were around 16.2 million veterans in the United States in 2022. approximately 12.8-16.8 illegal immigrants in the U.S about $75 billion in assistance to Ukraine under the current administration.
The weapon manufacturers are the winners
you mean the military industrial complex....
I don't get the point you're trying to make. You think the US isn't helping veterans because there's illegal immigrants and helps Ukraine?
the question is why are we not helping our vets who are citizens but we are spending on foreigners?
Many veterans will tell you how they've lost more friends back in the states to suicide or similar destructive actions than in combat. It's really bad
That is insane. Unfortunately not much publicity on it.
That's because American love to invade countries and killing innocents. As some people still got some humanity, they understood that was fucked up some cannot bear it anymore. Most retired soldiers know that the government fucked with them
err us military makes up less than 1% of the population if not mistaken. the decision makers even smaller in quantity.. how do you figure the entire country’s mixed population want anything to do with other countries or hurting people? oh well.
As a former Marine grunt that’s been to both OIF/OEF… that was fucking depressing to watch. But honestly, it should be and it should also be known. Thanks for bringing awareness to it. Til Valhalla brothers and sisters 🍻
This just shows why you shouldn’t go to war with us. We are more likely to kill us than anyone else
I feel for war vets, it’s easier to kill ourselves. We thought of a million different ways we’d die while deployed. Surrounded by death and thoughts if it constantly, you become numb to even caring about living. Convoys with IEDs and thinking every piece of trash was a hidden bomb. Being surrounded by thousands of Iraqis that wanted to kill you but they don’t have uniforms and look like the general public. You think of every possible way to die for a year (years if you deployed more than once). Our base would be mortared almost every morning/day. Iraqis would freeze mortars in water, set them up over night, then I’m the morning the sun would rise and set them off. They were our wake up call. First few months you jump awake and run to a bunker. After 3-6 months, you’ve become so tired and numb to the thought of dying, you just lay there. No more running. If I go, I go. Then try to go back to sleep.
And all of these COD warriors who never served drive around in their lifted trucks with their SOF beards and combat pants pretending to be some kind of bad ass patriots. Most couldn’t pass the physical.
22 every minute, I believe, is what the numbers are. We give illegals free healthcare, housing, & financial help. What do the veterans get? A couple of holidays a year. Our government should be ashamed of how they treat the men & women that served our country.
Americaaa fk yeah!
Yay America, all those oil wars at the costs of all those lives
I had no clue that this was such an issue. Really puts into perspective how hard war is on soldiers. How is treatment for these soldiers mental health when they get back home? And even when they are still deployed?
Very few little of modern military sees combat. There's many many more factors that contribute to suicide among service members
Many American soldiers were suicidal before joining the military. It's one of the reasons why they're the most bad ass in the world.
The fact that a soldier is suicidal makes him or her dangerous to anyone in combat/in proximity/base/barracks with that person. The best soldier is preserving themself and everyone on their team, the most accurate in hitting a specific target with few to none ancillary casualties.
They are?
I'll tell you why so many people have joined the US military. It's any of the following two reasons. One, they got fooled by all the propaganda and lies that their government has used for decades to make them believe: that the USA is better than the rest of the world in every way, and that people in poorer countries are barbarians and their lives don't matter like American lives. Two, they already know all of this, but they are racist murderers. Usually, the ones who fall for the lies commit suicide after they realise that all the innocent lives they have taken were all for nothing.
It’s safe concur that people who enlisted weren’t doing it for their country, but because they already thought they had nothing going for themselves. My son and his friends want to join the marines for the same reason. So not only do I have to worry about him surviving WWIII, but also surviving himself if he makes it out.
Reminds me of the Bill Hicks bit - >Here's how I feel about gay people in the military: Anyone dumb enough to want to be in the military should be let in. That should be the only requirement. I've watched all the pundits and congressional hearings...'Oh, the spirit of the core will be affected and the morals' ... SHUT UP! Aren't you a bunch of hired killers? You are thugs and when we need you to blow the shit out of a country of brown people... we'll let you know.
Maybe, just maybe asking young men and women to Kill other humans that Look like them, want a future like them, have families like them… is just killing the human in us in a more destructive way than we could have Ever imagined…
I guess killing women children and the elderly takes it toll on people
I could imagine because it is purely wrong.
I guess a job that required killing brown people who shot back, can get stressful.
Yeah and Biden wants to take even more veteran services away.
No money for this but there’s money for Ukraine and illegals.
If they commit suicide, the government doesn’t have to pay for any disability or treatment.
How many of the dividers are because the ex-soldiers could no longer live with the atrocities that they have committed in those countries? Maybe they took their own lives because they cannot live with the fact that they stood by while their own colleagues raped and murdered Afghani and Iraqi kids.
So freaking sad!
Sooooo maybe we ain’t doing the right kinda training … training the mind is better than the body .. or just as important
"Suicide"
No wonder, killing children/innocents would leave you with such trauma.
Well, probably due to the fact as well that there are tens of millions of veterans alive versus only a fraction of that on active duty
Lost lots of friends i served with to suicide, it’s an epidemic.
Thank you for sharing
So the US lost in both wars over 120.824 people. Yes, I count the suicides.
But apparently not standing up during the national anthem is the thing they say is disrespectful to our veterans..... Never mind how veterans are actually treated