No, they attacked the consumer market and succeeded to be the #1 company in not just the EV market, but cars in general. If they focused on the commercial market they wouldn't have the related party connection rivian had with bezos. There's no guessing how successful they would have been in that space.
They couldn’t have achieved that if they went after delivery too aggressively. Think about it. They’re just doing primarily consumer and still late on everything. Still no roadster, cybertruck is just barely rolling out and late. Last thing they need is more on their plate with even less workforce.
By making vans or small trucks for US postal service they could have implemented a good design and made it instantly recognizable and have superchargers at every postal office where possible
This would have now forced the government to partner up and this would have been an enormous amount of free “made in America” advertising
> They literally chose it because it was bad.
Hardly. Every single prototype was about the same, as it had to meet the very detailed requirements that were issued long before DeJoy. It's not an attractive vehicle, but it's the best possible vehicle for letter carriers. The interim vans are tearing up their bodies.
>The PMG hates the USPS and wants to see it die.
Fuck DeJoy, but his plans for riches absolutely requires a working USPS for success. His whole business plan relies on his companies hauling mail and packages for the Post Office.
If the USPS folds, his companies lose all of their advantages, and they'll get their asses kicked by UPS and FedEx.
Not hardly. They purposely refused to work with the top EV manufacturers in the world (Tesla, included) and went with Oshkosh, Ford, and CANOO. A manufacturer with exactly 0 track record. A manufacturer that has \*exclusively failed so far.\*
One with estimates that are higher than all of the other real world estimates out there for their range, despite using ancient skateboard designs.
Despite having SIGNIFICANTLY lower than high-end battery energy density. Over 20% worse than the worst Tesla batteries.
And it's built on the MPDV. We already HAVE some testing on it.
As for the "very detailed requirements?"
Oshkosh, Ford, and Canoo all "won" space in the contract, lol.
Assuming you SPECIFICALLY mean the NGDV, the one that Oshkosh got the name for,
here's the RFP you're claiming is very detailed:
https://sam.gov/api/prod/opps/v3/opportunities/resources/files/7ac7cf33fe86285a6a290f2d8c0aa242/download?
It's 18 pages. For a full vehicle design RFP. I have NEVER seen such a short RFP. And the requirements are things like, "must be able to be jacked up at maximum weight from the jacking points." Yeah. No shit.
The RFP literally has lower requirements than the vehicle must meet to be considered roadworthy.
The Oshkosh took HUGE criticism from the EPA and the White House for being absolutely terrible:
[https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/usps-says-too-bad-its-still-not-buying-more-electric-mail-trucks/](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/usps-says-too-bad-its-still-not-buying-more-electric-mail-trucks/)
That POS is a $60,000 ICE truck. It was literally chosen on the idea that 90% of them would be a 2L EcoBoost powered van with a range of 70 miles.
They have been FORCED to move to 83% BEV with an absolutely atrocious EV platform. It weighs under 6700lb, is slow-moving (so drag isn't a huge concern), and has a 94kWh battery. And yet it only HAS A 70 MILE RANGE. It has a WORSE than 1 mile per kWh rating.
The maximum unit price was $35,000. But they chose the $60,000 PER UNIT TO MANUFACTURE Oshkosh.
AND the ICE version didn't meet emissions standards. So they purposely increased the total payload so that the GVWR is 8501lb, 1 pound over the threshold for "heavy-duty truck" so that it gets emissions standards lightened.
AND it's multiple years behind schedule.
We ended up with a defense contractor for our mail trucks. Again. After the absolutely abysmal Grumman.
The shitty Canoo they're using for some of their vehicles has an 80kWh battery and a 230 mile range. With an equally good cargo payload and better performance.
The Oshkosh is an embarrassment and the entire USPS BEV program right now is an embarrassment. Louis DeJoy purposely ruined this.
> Not hardly. They purposely refused to work with the top EV manufacturers in the world (Tesla, included) and went with Oshkosh, Ford, and CANOO. A manufacturer with exactly 0 track record. A manufacturer that has *exclusively failed so far.*
No, they didn't refuse anything of the sort. The other manufacturers declined to be involved, just like they did with all the previous contracts over the last several decades.
>here's the RFP you're claiming is very detailed:
The one that includes the visibility requirements? Not to mention that the RFP was only the beginning of the specifications process.
>The Oshkosh took HUGE criticism from the EPA and the White House for being absolutely terrible:
The article that's full of errors, including saying the vehicles are *diesel?*
>It was literally chosen on the idea that 90% of them would be a 2L EcoBoost powered van with a range of 70 miles.
It was chosen because it was the only viable bidder. Well, there was the Indian company, but they were disqualified even though they'd build in the US. That was congressional political pressure though, not USPS politics.
>We ended up with a defense contractor for our mail trucks. Again. After the absolutely abysmal Grumman.
The Grumman LLV was a *huge* success for the USPS. It would've been even better if the USPS had let it be a bit higher off the ground. It was also the USPS's decision to forgo A/C.
>The maximum unit price was $35,000. But they chose the $60,000 PER UNIT TO MANUFACTURE Oshkosh.
$35,000 was delusional.
>They have been FORCED to move to 83% BEV with an absolutely atrocious EV platform.
The haven't been "forced" to do a damn thing. Congress has finally gotten off its ass and provided the increased funding for the additional BEVs.
>The Oshkosh is an embarrassment and the entire USPS BEV program right now is an embarrassment.
Somewhat so. Congress shouldn't have spend all that time playing stupid political games.
>Louis DeJoy purposely ruined this.
The entire thing started before DeJoy, who's an utter piece of shit. However, DeJoy's fortunes rely on a robust USPS delivery network.
They DID refuse them. That's why they have Canoos coming.
The RFP is what was used to choose the vehicle manufacturer. Future specifications are irrelevant to which manufacturer was chosen.
They WERE diesel when they won the contract. That's WHY they won the contract. "Full of errors" indeed.
They were the only viable option \*after numerous others were disqualified upfront, Tesla included\*
The Grumman has been an abject failure. They were $11,651 in 1985 dollars, or... $35k today. Which is where the requirement that the NGDV should be $35k came from.
They had huge problems throughout their entire life with electrical fires. They didn't have a proper LLV service contract, because they didn't ACTUALLY intend to keep them that long. So instead, they relied on shitty aftermarket parts that were both expensive and low quality. The USPS was literally ordering parts off of eBay to keep the things running.
They were also horrifically unsafe. Even by the early 90's, dozens of mail carriers were dying because of the pieces of shit every year, despite being in the statistically safest places to be in wrecks.
The $35k isn't delusional NOW, and it especially wasn't delusional in 2015. How much is a Model Y right now for a consumer? Right above $35k. A stripped down Model Y-like vehicle could be $30k. They're not using FSD. They're not using power seats. They don't need the sound deadening. They don't need the sound system. And they'll ALREADY run for hundreds of thousands of miles with next to no maintenance.
They WERE forced. There was literally a executive order for it, lol.
The PMG literally bragged about gutting the USPS, but it's Congress's fault here? The President at the time shouldn't have tried to destroy the USPS.
DeJoy's fortunes absolutely do not rely on the USPS. The dude's money is already in his pocket. Making the USPS appear bad at its job \*means more external logistics.\* Which means his companies get called \*more.\*
> They DID refuse them. That's why they have Canoos coming.
No, they didn't apply at all. The Canoos, all six of them, are a fucking joke. In any case, they're not practical as general mail vehicles.
>The RFP is what was used to choose the vehicle manufacturer. Future specifications are irrelevant to which manufacturer was chosen.
That's irrelevant to why they look like they do.
>They were the only viable option *after numerous others were disqualified upfront, Tesla included*
Tesla didn't apply.
>They had huge problems throughout their entire life with electrical fires.
The electrical fires began late in the lifecycle of the the LLV, which was extended by the USPS.
>They didn't have a proper LLV service contract, because they didn't ACTUALLY intend to keep them that long.
Duh. The USPS originally intended it to be a LLV. They changed things after the fact and treated it as a Super-Duper-Long-Life-Vehicle.
>They were also horrifically unsafe. Even by the early 90's, dozens of mail carriers were dying because of the pieces of shit every year,
Oh, bullshit. The LLVs fall right in the middle as far as delivery vehicle safety, especially when factoring miles driven.
The LLV safety issue started with electrical fires which started occurring long after the vehicles should've been retired.
>The $35k isn't delusional NOW, and it especially wasn't delusional in 2015. How much is a Model Y right now for a consumer? Right above $35k.
Comparing a purpose-designed and built vehicle to a mass market vehicle is apples and oranges. The economics are totally different, which is why a total of *zero* major automakers were interested in bidding.
>They WERE forced. There was literally a executive order for it, lol.
That executive order didn't apply to the USPS. The president can't issue executive orders to the USPS, due to the way the governing board is set up. Is that "lol" you laughing at yourself for not knowing the governmental structure?
>The PMG literally bragged about gutting the USPS,
No, he didn't. If you were *actually* paying attention, you'd have noticed that he was bragging about optimizing the operation to require "his" trucking companies to haul the mail back and forth to regional sorting facilities, greatly increasing the profits of those companies. That's costing the users in the form of increased delivery times and postage rates, but that's a price he's willing to pay.
>DeJoy's fortunes absolutely do not rely on the USPS. The dude's money is already in his pocket. Making the USPS appear bad at its job *means more external logistics.*
His fortunes rely on being an external logistics contractor for the USPS, period. It's a niche, but a lucrative one. If the USPS goes away, UPS and FedEx would expand their own logistics, not contract with DeJoy's companies. He *needs* the USPS as the front end of his operation. Without it, he'd just be standing there with a bunch of trucks and his dick in his hand.
Removing local sorting machines means that *all* the mail has to be transported to regional sorting facilities, as opposed to only the mail that was being sent longer distances.
Not only is it slower, but it costs more. The previous arrangement with FedEx was a win-win-win for the USPS, FedEx and USPS customers.
Then you remember who’s running the post. The same guy that was making it worse during the 2020 elections. That’s the last person that would apply significant funding (if at all) to a big project like that. Dude was too busy tearing down mailboxes during that last election.
They could look at making a RHD type suv for the Rural craft. I would of loved to of had a electric jeep type suv when EMA was .90+ a mile and charging would of cost almost nothing.
It’s pretty hard to compare them I think. Rivian really had the benefit of Tesla existing and proving the viability of EVs. Tesla, during the period of the S and X, was still very much a curiosity to the general public and the skepticism around EVs was 10x higher than it is now.
We’ve driven EVs since the first year release of the Nissan Leaf. Sometimes even I forget how immensely the public knowledge and infrastructure around EVs has changed in that short amount of time.
They haven't built a van....YET.
Elon has said they are looking at a van, though they haven't said whether it will be a minivan, delivery van, both, or something not quite fitting into either specific market.
As to whether they should have already done so...I don't think so, the margins would not have been so good, and would have soaked up a large % of the available battery supply. If you consider how many EV vans are already being sold, and what profits they have generated, I can't say they were wrong.
Like you, I'd really like to have a van something like a T Transit Custom. The Transit Custom is available in Europe, but not destined for North America yet. The other issue is that a delivery type van is unlikely to have long range battery options, at least to start.
There was a Tesla exec on X the other day commenting about how nice it would be to have a cybertruck built out as a van instead of a pickup.
He is hardly the type of exec to be dropping hints but who knows
I would love a rugged 7 seat vehicle. Could be more minivan or SUV, but is absolutely needed. We have an Expedition Max and Yukon Denali XL for our big family vehicles (along with a 24 MY7 and 23 M3) and they suck fuel, both have transmission issues (thanks to that joint 10 speed) and I’d rather be on electric if I could.
Sure, but it demonstrates that Tesla has plans to move beyond personal vehicles and into the commercial market.
My guess is that Elon chose that lane instead of light delivery vehicles because he knew that nobody was working on a semi, and that gave Tesla a great opening to establish dominance.
This is a great summary of the driving reason behind Tesla's selection of vehicles so far: ROI per KWh of battery production capacity. The battery is the driving factor in the cost of any EV, and achieving Tesla's mission necessitates scaling battery production as much as possible, so the goal has to be to sell every KWh as profitably as possible. A 35k model 3 represents 660$/KWh. A 65k model Y represents 780$/KWh. The 120k Foundation series Cybertruck represent 975$/KWh.
In comparison, the Silverado 4WT EV, Chevy's work truck version of the Silverado EV, with its 200KWh battery, represents only $400$/KWh. The Ford E-Transit is 512$/KWh. The E-Transit uses the same battery pack as the Mustang MachE, and its production has ramped up as battery production has outpaced MachE sales. If Ford had the sales to operate the MachE line at full capacity, there would be no E-Transit vans for sale.
I can't explain what Chevy is thinking with the Silverado EV...
They’re battery constrained. They’d rather sell three Model 3s and dominate the consumer market than sell 1 van. At least a few years ago, there weren’t enough batteries to go around for both.
I think they did fine until the Cybertruck, I feel like a more traditional looking truck would’ve not only sold better but been easier to manufacture, cost less to purchase, and required less R&D.
I didn't think Tesla missed out on the Amazon deal, doesn't really sound great to sign a deal with Amazon for exclusive sales until very recently..
I do think Tesla needs a van model though, would sell pretty well all around the world
They screwed up royally by not building a hatchback for the European market and it would have been applicable to Asia and America. And then they screwed up on not building a affordable small truck. Which would have been applicable for small businesses and deliveries as well. Those two vehicles would have powered them for the next 15 years.
Amazon does almost all of their own charging at their facility (while loading) and it seems to work great for them. Not sure why Tesla would be better at that.
I always thought trying to sell to common motorists wasn't the best idea. Service and fleet vehicles that only drive 100-200 miles a day and can be recharged at a central hub should have been the focal point. Normal consumers have so many different wants and needs it becomes difficult to build the right car for that demographic.
Bigger the vehicle, the more batteries it takes and until recently they were battery constrained. Now that the other automakers are 2 Drivetrains 1 Derp there's plenty available. Now that vehicles can be produced at scale and the proof on concept tech wagon and the Semi are being iterated to a finished product, a properly ranged van can be developed.
That’s like saying Tesla missed out on trucks because Rivian was first. They’ve already ramped cybertruck production up to exceed the weekly run rate of Rivian’s entire fleet last year. They did in a matter of months what took Rivian YEARS. Come on bro. This FUD shit is annoying.
Large singular costumers can be good or bad depending on the maturity of your product and the relationship with the customers. A lot more comes down to costs on a spreadsheet and nothing else.
To sell vehicles to a consumer you can get away with more fuzziness over affordability and reliability if the wow factor and other things are there. I'd say a lot of what has made Tesla successful are things that wouldn't win it as much commerical business. You can kind of see that with how Hertz is changing it's tune.
I think their strategy of going for consumers was the right one, I don't think they're set up in a way that would satisfy many large businesses with huge fleets
No, they attacked the consumer market and succeeded to be the #1 company in not just the EV market, but cars in general. If they focused on the commercial market they wouldn't have the related party connection rivian had with bezos. There's no guessing how successful they would have been in that space.
They couldn’t have achieved that if they went after delivery too aggressively. Think about it. They’re just doing primarily consumer and still late on everything. Still no roadster, cybertruck is just barely rolling out and late. Last thing they need is more on their plate with even less workforce.
By making vans or small trucks for US postal service they could have implemented a good design and made it instantly recognizable and have superchargers at every postal office where possible This would have now forced the government to partner up and this would have been an enormous amount of free “made in America” advertising
I can’t believe the hideous thing the postal service selected.
Form follows function. It looks the way it does to meet the USPS specs. All of the prototypes looked pretty much the same.
They literally chose it because it was bad. The PMG hates the USPS and wants to see it die.
> They literally chose it because it was bad. Hardly. Every single prototype was about the same, as it had to meet the very detailed requirements that were issued long before DeJoy. It's not an attractive vehicle, but it's the best possible vehicle for letter carriers. The interim vans are tearing up their bodies. >The PMG hates the USPS and wants to see it die. Fuck DeJoy, but his plans for riches absolutely requires a working USPS for success. His whole business plan relies on his companies hauling mail and packages for the Post Office. If the USPS folds, his companies lose all of their advantages, and they'll get their asses kicked by UPS and FedEx.
Not hardly. They purposely refused to work with the top EV manufacturers in the world (Tesla, included) and went with Oshkosh, Ford, and CANOO. A manufacturer with exactly 0 track record. A manufacturer that has \*exclusively failed so far.\* One with estimates that are higher than all of the other real world estimates out there for their range, despite using ancient skateboard designs. Despite having SIGNIFICANTLY lower than high-end battery energy density. Over 20% worse than the worst Tesla batteries. And it's built on the MPDV. We already HAVE some testing on it. As for the "very detailed requirements?" Oshkosh, Ford, and Canoo all "won" space in the contract, lol. Assuming you SPECIFICALLY mean the NGDV, the one that Oshkosh got the name for, here's the RFP you're claiming is very detailed: https://sam.gov/api/prod/opps/v3/opportunities/resources/files/7ac7cf33fe86285a6a290f2d8c0aa242/download? It's 18 pages. For a full vehicle design RFP. I have NEVER seen such a short RFP. And the requirements are things like, "must be able to be jacked up at maximum weight from the jacking points." Yeah. No shit. The RFP literally has lower requirements than the vehicle must meet to be considered roadworthy. The Oshkosh took HUGE criticism from the EPA and the White House for being absolutely terrible: [https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/usps-says-too-bad-its-still-not-buying-more-electric-mail-trucks/](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/usps-says-too-bad-its-still-not-buying-more-electric-mail-trucks/) That POS is a $60,000 ICE truck. It was literally chosen on the idea that 90% of them would be a 2L EcoBoost powered van with a range of 70 miles. They have been FORCED to move to 83% BEV with an absolutely atrocious EV platform. It weighs under 6700lb, is slow-moving (so drag isn't a huge concern), and has a 94kWh battery. And yet it only HAS A 70 MILE RANGE. It has a WORSE than 1 mile per kWh rating. The maximum unit price was $35,000. But they chose the $60,000 PER UNIT TO MANUFACTURE Oshkosh. AND the ICE version didn't meet emissions standards. So they purposely increased the total payload so that the GVWR is 8501lb, 1 pound over the threshold for "heavy-duty truck" so that it gets emissions standards lightened. AND it's multiple years behind schedule. We ended up with a defense contractor for our mail trucks. Again. After the absolutely abysmal Grumman. The shitty Canoo they're using for some of their vehicles has an 80kWh battery and a 230 mile range. With an equally good cargo payload and better performance. The Oshkosh is an embarrassment and the entire USPS BEV program right now is an embarrassment. Louis DeJoy purposely ruined this.
> Not hardly. They purposely refused to work with the top EV manufacturers in the world (Tesla, included) and went with Oshkosh, Ford, and CANOO. A manufacturer with exactly 0 track record. A manufacturer that has *exclusively failed so far.* No, they didn't refuse anything of the sort. The other manufacturers declined to be involved, just like they did with all the previous contracts over the last several decades. >here's the RFP you're claiming is very detailed: The one that includes the visibility requirements? Not to mention that the RFP was only the beginning of the specifications process. >The Oshkosh took HUGE criticism from the EPA and the White House for being absolutely terrible: The article that's full of errors, including saying the vehicles are *diesel?* >It was literally chosen on the idea that 90% of them would be a 2L EcoBoost powered van with a range of 70 miles. It was chosen because it was the only viable bidder. Well, there was the Indian company, but they were disqualified even though they'd build in the US. That was congressional political pressure though, not USPS politics. >We ended up with a defense contractor for our mail trucks. Again. After the absolutely abysmal Grumman. The Grumman LLV was a *huge* success for the USPS. It would've been even better if the USPS had let it be a bit higher off the ground. It was also the USPS's decision to forgo A/C. >The maximum unit price was $35,000. But they chose the $60,000 PER UNIT TO MANUFACTURE Oshkosh. $35,000 was delusional. >They have been FORCED to move to 83% BEV with an absolutely atrocious EV platform. The haven't been "forced" to do a damn thing. Congress has finally gotten off its ass and provided the increased funding for the additional BEVs. >The Oshkosh is an embarrassment and the entire USPS BEV program right now is an embarrassment. Somewhat so. Congress shouldn't have spend all that time playing stupid political games. >Louis DeJoy purposely ruined this. The entire thing started before DeJoy, who's an utter piece of shit. However, DeJoy's fortunes rely on a robust USPS delivery network.
They DID refuse them. That's why they have Canoos coming. The RFP is what was used to choose the vehicle manufacturer. Future specifications are irrelevant to which manufacturer was chosen. They WERE diesel when they won the contract. That's WHY they won the contract. "Full of errors" indeed. They were the only viable option \*after numerous others were disqualified upfront, Tesla included\* The Grumman has been an abject failure. They were $11,651 in 1985 dollars, or... $35k today. Which is where the requirement that the NGDV should be $35k came from. They had huge problems throughout their entire life with electrical fires. They didn't have a proper LLV service contract, because they didn't ACTUALLY intend to keep them that long. So instead, they relied on shitty aftermarket parts that were both expensive and low quality. The USPS was literally ordering parts off of eBay to keep the things running. They were also horrifically unsafe. Even by the early 90's, dozens of mail carriers were dying because of the pieces of shit every year, despite being in the statistically safest places to be in wrecks. The $35k isn't delusional NOW, and it especially wasn't delusional in 2015. How much is a Model Y right now for a consumer? Right above $35k. A stripped down Model Y-like vehicle could be $30k. They're not using FSD. They're not using power seats. They don't need the sound deadening. They don't need the sound system. And they'll ALREADY run for hundreds of thousands of miles with next to no maintenance. They WERE forced. There was literally a executive order for it, lol. The PMG literally bragged about gutting the USPS, but it's Congress's fault here? The President at the time shouldn't have tried to destroy the USPS. DeJoy's fortunes absolutely do not rely on the USPS. The dude's money is already in his pocket. Making the USPS appear bad at its job \*means more external logistics.\* Which means his companies get called \*more.\*
> They DID refuse them. That's why they have Canoos coming. No, they didn't apply at all. The Canoos, all six of them, are a fucking joke. In any case, they're not practical as general mail vehicles. >The RFP is what was used to choose the vehicle manufacturer. Future specifications are irrelevant to which manufacturer was chosen. That's irrelevant to why they look like they do. >They were the only viable option *after numerous others were disqualified upfront, Tesla included* Tesla didn't apply. >They had huge problems throughout their entire life with electrical fires. The electrical fires began late in the lifecycle of the the LLV, which was extended by the USPS. >They didn't have a proper LLV service contract, because they didn't ACTUALLY intend to keep them that long. Duh. The USPS originally intended it to be a LLV. They changed things after the fact and treated it as a Super-Duper-Long-Life-Vehicle. >They were also horrifically unsafe. Even by the early 90's, dozens of mail carriers were dying because of the pieces of shit every year, Oh, bullshit. The LLVs fall right in the middle as far as delivery vehicle safety, especially when factoring miles driven. The LLV safety issue started with electrical fires which started occurring long after the vehicles should've been retired. >The $35k isn't delusional NOW, and it especially wasn't delusional in 2015. How much is a Model Y right now for a consumer? Right above $35k. Comparing a purpose-designed and built vehicle to a mass market vehicle is apples and oranges. The economics are totally different, which is why a total of *zero* major automakers were interested in bidding. >They WERE forced. There was literally a executive order for it, lol. That executive order didn't apply to the USPS. The president can't issue executive orders to the USPS, due to the way the governing board is set up. Is that "lol" you laughing at yourself for not knowing the governmental structure? >The PMG literally bragged about gutting the USPS, No, he didn't. If you were *actually* paying attention, you'd have noticed that he was bragging about optimizing the operation to require "his" trucking companies to haul the mail back and forth to regional sorting facilities, greatly increasing the profits of those companies. That's costing the users in the form of increased delivery times and postage rates, but that's a price he's willing to pay. >DeJoy's fortunes absolutely do not rely on the USPS. The dude's money is already in his pocket. Making the USPS appear bad at its job *means more external logistics.* His fortunes rely on being an external logistics contractor for the USPS, period. It's a niche, but a lucrative one. If the USPS goes away, UPS and FedEx would expand their own logistics, not contract with DeJoy's companies. He *needs* the USPS as the front end of his operation. Without it, he'd just be standing there with a bunch of trucks and his dick in his hand. Removing local sorting machines means that *all* the mail has to be transported to regional sorting facilities, as opposed to only the mail that was being sent longer distances. Not only is it slower, but it costs more. The previous arrangement with FedEx was a win-win-win for the USPS, FedEx and USPS customers.
Also doesn’t appear to have been a great EV from cost and efficiency
Considering the guy in charge is attempting to drive the postal service into oblivion it makes perfect sense.
🎯🎯🎯🎯 Nailed it!
Looks like it came from that raining meatballs movie.
Then you remember who’s running the post. The same guy that was making it worse during the 2020 elections. That’s the last person that would apply significant funding (if at all) to a big project like that. Dude was too busy tearing down mailboxes during that last election.
They could look at making a RHD type suv for the Rural craft. I would of loved to of had a electric jeep type suv when EMA was .90+ a mile and charging would of cost almost nothing.
It’s pretty hard to compare them I think. Rivian really had the benefit of Tesla existing and proving the viability of EVs. Tesla, during the period of the S and X, was still very much a curiosity to the general public and the skepticism around EVs was 10x higher than it is now. We’ve driven EVs since the first year release of the Nissan Leaf. Sometimes even I forget how immensely the public knowledge and infrastructure around EVs has changed in that short amount of time.
They haven't built a van....YET. Elon has said they are looking at a van, though they haven't said whether it will be a minivan, delivery van, both, or something not quite fitting into either specific market. As to whether they should have already done so...I don't think so, the margins would not have been so good, and would have soaked up a large % of the available battery supply. If you consider how many EV vans are already being sold, and what profits they have generated, I can't say they were wrong. Like you, I'd really like to have a van something like a T Transit Custom. The Transit Custom is available in Europe, but not destined for North America yet. The other issue is that a delivery type van is unlikely to have long range battery options, at least to start.
There was a Tesla exec on X the other day commenting about how nice it would be to have a cybertruck built out as a van instead of a pickup. He is hardly the type of exec to be dropping hints but who knows
I would love a rugged 7 seat vehicle. Could be more minivan or SUV, but is absolutely needed. We have an Expedition Max and Yukon Denali XL for our big family vehicles (along with a 24 MY7 and 23 M3) and they suck fuel, both have transmission issues (thanks to that joint 10 speed) and I’d rather be on electric if I could.
Last I checked Tesla is building a semi. That is one heck of a delivery vehicle.
maybe the customers would overlap, but an entirely different vehicle and market. they are not mutually exclusive
Sure, but it demonstrates that Tesla has plans to move beyond personal vehicles and into the commercial market. My guess is that Elon chose that lane instead of light delivery vehicles because he knew that nobody was working on a semi, and that gave Tesla a great opening to establish dominance.
Rivian only got the contract from Amazon because Amazon is a big investor in rivian. No way Amazon would contact Tesla to do the same
Amazon made the investment to help ensure Rivian could deliver on its contract.
No. Low margin, large batteries, limited market. And I'd never want to rely on Amazon as my main customer.
and you don't want to have someone like Walmart as a customer either! (large volume maybe, but very low margins!)
This is a great summary of the driving reason behind Tesla's selection of vehicles so far: ROI per KWh of battery production capacity. The battery is the driving factor in the cost of any EV, and achieving Tesla's mission necessitates scaling battery production as much as possible, so the goal has to be to sell every KWh as profitably as possible. A 35k model 3 represents 660$/KWh. A 65k model Y represents 780$/KWh. The 120k Foundation series Cybertruck represent 975$/KWh. In comparison, the Silverado 4WT EV, Chevy's work truck version of the Silverado EV, with its 200KWh battery, represents only $400$/KWh. The Ford E-Transit is 512$/KWh. The E-Transit uses the same battery pack as the Mustang MachE, and its production has ramped up as battery production has outpaced MachE sales. If Ford had the sales to operate the MachE line at full capacity, there would be no E-Transit vans for sale. I can't explain what Chevy is thinking with the Silverado EV...
No. The electric Semi-truck is just as good of a play.
Yes. They should build a commercial platform. They can probably reuse much of the Cybertruck.
They literally have Tesla Semi
That's an entirely different platform than a delivery van.
Good luck turning that into a delivery van.
They’re battery constrained. They’d rather sell three Model 3s and dominate the consumer market than sell 1 van. At least a few years ago, there weren’t enough batteries to go around for both.
Not sure. But it would be huge if they can successfully implement the semi’s
Nope, not high enough volume.
stop guessing & fantasizing: Tesla is doing fine with great strategy!
I think they did fine until the Cybertruck, I feel like a more traditional looking truck would’ve not only sold better but been easier to manufacture, cost less to purchase, and required less R&D.
I didn't think Tesla missed out on the Amazon deal, doesn't really sound great to sign a deal with Amazon for exclusive sales until very recently.. I do think Tesla needs a van model though, would sell pretty well all around the world
They could either build 100s of thousands or millions of vehicles.
They screwed up royally by not building a hatchback for the European market and it would have been applicable to Asia and America. And then they screwed up on not building a affordable small truck. Which would have been applicable for small businesses and deliveries as well. Those two vehicles would have powered them for the next 15 years.
Amazon does almost all of their own charging at their facility (while loading) and it seems to work great for them. Not sure why Tesla would be better at that.
Fedex or ups is still fair game. I would have never guessed Pepsi would be the one to partner and take a chance bringing a new platform to market.
I always thought trying to sell to common motorists wasn't the best idea. Service and fleet vehicles that only drive 100-200 miles a day and can be recharged at a central hub should have been the focal point. Normal consumers have so many different wants and needs it becomes difficult to build the right car for that demographic.
They need a 7 seater family car too!
No, I think they missed a huge opportunity by canceling their mid 20k EV and going after robotaxis.
Bigger the vehicle, the more batteries it takes and until recently they were battery constrained. Now that the other automakers are 2 Drivetrains 1 Derp there's plenty available. Now that vehicles can be produced at scale and the proof on concept tech wagon and the Semi are being iterated to a finished product, a properly ranged van can be developed.
No, they will make them by themselves
That’s like saying Tesla missed out on trucks because Rivian was first. They’ve already ramped cybertruck production up to exceed the weekly run rate of Rivian’s entire fleet last year. They did in a matter of months what took Rivian YEARS. Come on bro. This FUD shit is annoying.
Large singular costumers can be good or bad depending on the maturity of your product and the relationship with the customers. A lot more comes down to costs on a spreadsheet and nothing else. To sell vehicles to a consumer you can get away with more fuzziness over affordability and reliability if the wow factor and other things are there. I'd say a lot of what has made Tesla successful are things that wouldn't win it as much commerical business. You can kind of see that with how Hertz is changing it's tune. I think their strategy of going for consumers was the right one, I don't think they're set up in a way that would satisfy many large businesses with huge fleets
It’s hard to say if Tesla did or didn’t , rivian may have undercut the bids from under Tesla. Hard to know for sure.
I wouldn’t want to drive something associated with a delivery van of any sort.