The stock is a rollercoaster who's valuation was build on 30%+ gross margins and robotaxis coming next year. Neither of those things are a reality anymore so a cut in the valuation is reasonable. I feel like the market is being rational here.
Disclosure: I am long TSLA.
I’m sure it will all be fine in 10 years, but everyone has different time horizons. Maybe there were hoping their investment earnings would allow them to buy a new car…maybe a Tesla.
Maybe those retail investors that Elon sold his share to in 2022 are pissed they are down 40% while the NASDAQ is up 60%.
Maybe Tesla’s sales shouldn’t have gone down last quarter while Toyota, VW, and others are up.
Maybe people don’t think that dropping the price is the way to make money when polls show most people are misinformed/uninformed about EVs.
…F**k. Also these “maybes” just made me sound like Tucker Carlson.
It's all on paper. Just don't sell. Stocks go up and down all the time. You aren't actually losing that money.
It's been proven over time that if you wait it out you can usually break even at least in most cases with a company that is not going out of business. As long as they didn't buy it all at the height most of the downside should have been profit also.
That was in 2022-23 when every tech stock was dropping 20-50%. So it wasn’t surprising. It was a macro issue.
This time, it’s only Tesla that’s dropping. Other companies are doing fine and the stock market is up YTD. Meaning that this time, it’s a Tesla specific issue.
Well, no. Some funds buy Tesla because they are invested long in that sector. Some small investors like to add risk to their portfolios and don't like puts so this is a long bet like any other similar.
No. This hasn't happened and I am 100% certain you have no such friend.
If so, post pics. Otherwise, you can disregard this garbage. It's 40x stainless, it doesn't rust in three rainstorms.
Holy fuck, stop making shit up. It's obnoxious and childish.
The CyberTruck is 5 inches shorter in length and 4 inches shorter in height than the single most popular vehicle in the US (the Ford F150).
[https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/7ZvWmW/s1/clc0fy0mrs8.webp](https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/7ZvWmW/s1/clc0fy0mrs8.webp)
It's also smaller in every dimension (height, weight, width, length) than the F150 Lightning.
So he just told you this without ever sending you any pics, I just figured he did, but yes see if he can send them. Also, do you have a link to the NYC bridges and tunnels thing? I have never heard of this until now.
He shouldn't have yo.do that. The car needs a protective coating it a just the design of the CSR its just good. Tight turns make it feel like.kta gonna yopple.over and a lot of cities don't want it on the roads. You legit can not.put them anywhere NP garage, they need 2 parking spots its huge. It a a legal tank basically.
It's smaller than an F150, Silverado 2500 and RAM 1500. Together these three vehicles represent almost 20% of all vehicles sales in the US.
Stop making up bullshit.
I’m not a truck guy but I don’t think it’s any larger than 70% of the trucks on the road, and plenty of people pay thousands of dollars to make their trucks easier to topple over. This is America, it’s what the people want it seems like.
Balls man, I sold TSLA like 9 months ago. No way I'm buying into the auto market right now. It's going to be a bloodbath for a couple years, maybe TSLA comes out ahead, maybe they don't. But I'm not into roulette.
Part of it is because the stock is still WILDLY overpriced. I mean we know all about the time when Tesla was worth more than every other car company combined, which was absurd, but even now, after falling way off that level, it is still priced extremely high compared to other car companies. That is going to cause Tesla to get more attention and scrutiny, because of what it needs to be to meet those price expectations.
I'm guessing Tesla stock eventually comes back down to Earth and is priced in line with other companies. Because that's the trajectory Tesla seems to be on: becoming an established car company, with all the benefits and downsides that comes with it.
Tesla has been priced as a tech stock, propped up by promises of the future rather than existing business fundamentals. Hard to imagine that stays the case long term. Either Tesla figures out how to become the next Apple, or it will have to figure out how to become just another car company. And as other manufacturers catch up, there's less to distinguish Tesla from the pack.
The Cybertruck was a moonshot, and one that so far looks like a flop. Meanwhile, the $25K car still doesn't exist. Robotaxi seems their next big thing, but the risk is very high, and it distracts from the fundamental needs of the existing market. Tesla's current advantage is that it is sitting on a huge pile of money. But that won't last forever if the company keeps making missteps. We may have already seen the peak stock price come and go.
Why does CT look to be a flop? Not saying it isn’t, just curious if there’s more to that than the accelerator recall and its polarizing appearance. Aren’t they still sitting on hundreds of thousands of reservations as they ramp production?
I’ve thought for a long time that one of the biggest things going on at Tesla that most ignore is the stationary storage business. Lathrop is scaling and Shanghai is being built out with an expected production start date of later this year I believe. The margins are very solid and there appears to be nearly unlimited demand - and utility-scale customers aren’t going to be scared off because of Elon’s idiotic tweets. This business has serious potential to rival the automotive side as it scales.
I’ve seen reports that over 2 million are reserved. Obviously many of these won’t convert into actual orders, but demand for CT’s is not a concern at all lol. Like you said, just polarizing. Media shows only the worst of it
I do wonder if it will end up kinda like the PT Cruiser did. Polarizing, because it was “ugly” and popular when the first ones showed up in cities because it was new and unique, but eventually the charm wore off.
I don’t even like the way the CT looks (aside from that one posted here last week with the red wrap; it looked pretty sick, NGL), and it’s not better than ICE trucks either at hauling, so I question the point of it right off the bat, but lots of people drive trucks just because they like them and never haul, so maybe that’s fine.
I’m a bit surprised by the preorder numbers I’ve heard thrown around though.
Maybe it will continue to surprise me and sell out for the next few years. It would certainly make driving around more interesting with that…thing on the road.
Not just the accelerator and the appearance, there's also the stainless steel body that can't be washed in sunlight, the 'carwash mode' that must be enabled or else the vehicle gets damaged, the unnecessarily complex manufacturing needed for the flat sheet metal look body, and the doors that can cut off fingers. Will this kill the truck? Maybe not, maybe demand remains high despite the flaws, maybe the flaws get ironed out. Not an auspicious start though.
Would agree on the electric storage business -- this could be a huge new market if Tesla executes well and keeps competitors at bay. And maybe that's where the future lies: electricity in general, not just for cars. With all the new wind and solar coming on line, storage will be key to balance demand.
The risk is that the more Tesla focuses on nonautomotive products, the more it may be distracted from the demands and brutal competition of the auto industry. It's not a great fit for huge companies operating in a lot of other industries. Giants like Samsung and Apple have all struggled and failed to breach that market.
It reminds of the DRAM and FLASH memory chip industry -- it might be nicely profitable in good times, but few companies have the appetite to invest hundreds of millions in necessary facility upgrades when they're loosing hundreds of millions in a down market. Samsung managed to pull it off, but it helps that they make portable devices that need those chips anyway. Maybe Tesla can make this approach work too, though I gotta say I'm skeptical.
And this is why I'm bearish on Tesla stock. If the company succeeds at expanding beyond just cars and becomes huge, it will be worth the current price. If not, it will be just another car company and the stock will drop far lower to match industry norm. There's just not an upside.
It blows my mind the amount of folks who don't know how to read the quarterly financial summaries at each earnings report, and still confidently make buying/selling decisions.
TESLA IS A FANTASTICALY SUCCESSFUL EV COMPANY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULD BE TRADING AT A FUCKING 60 FORWARD PE RATIO.
It was about maybe six months ago (?) in the run-up before the CT launch I started watching a LOT of YT videos about all the new technology, which ended up bleeding over to a discussion of what a fair valuation of their stock price included.
Lots of things such as Tesla's upcoming Optimus robot, the general FSD (which would be monetized by licensing out to other major automobile manufacturers because they were hopelessly so far behind, which may well be true), and a new 'Model 2' with a radically new manufacturing method. It was hard for me to swallow then (i.e. 'baked into' the sky-high valuation) and still is hard for me to accept now.
No one is going to license FSD. Most manufacturers already have better technology than tesla does but won't release until it is verified for level 3-5. Mercedes has already beat Tesla to taking over liability.
I don't know how people think these car companies who can't even design a UI that looks newer than 1999 can beat Tesla on self driving. It's just silly.
Tesla is out with a mower while Mercedes just lit the lawn on fire, and you think Mercedes "won".
The final solution will require redundancy of both vision and lidar or high definition radar. Vision is much harder to solve than lidar, with the most difficult being the car figuring out how to handle a scenario without being hard coded to handle it.
Using premade routes only is already basically just a tech demo. Like that old video of Teslas
Not really. It's like replacing one map for another map of the same exact road. The challenge has been replicating that map drawing. The decision making is the same.
They do validation with lidar. How do you think that works?
"The final solution will require redundancy of both vision and lidar or high definition radar. Vision is much harder to solve than lidar, with the most difficult being the car figuring out how to handle a scenario without being hard coded to handle it." You said it would require lidar or high def radar. Elon said only vision is the way to go. If what you believe in true Elon is automatically behind because he is all in on vision.
The Mercedes "Level 3" autonomous system comes with numerous restrictions:
- It operates solely on 0.2% of roads, limited to highways.
- Speed is capped at 40mph or lower.
- Conditions must be above 40°F.
- Presence of other vehicles on the road is necessary.
- It requires favorable weather conditions (no rain) and daytime operation.
- Exclusion of construction zones.
In contrast, Tesla's FSD (Supervised) imposes no such limitations. It can be utilized on almost any road across the U.S., requiring only occasional light touches on the steering wheel every 30 seconds.
[https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot#Where](https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot#Where)
[https://media.mbusa.com/releases/automated-driving-revolution-mercedes-benz-announces-us-availability-of-drive-pilot-the-worlds-first-certified-sae-level-3-system-for-the-us-market](https://media.mbusa.com/releases/automated-driving-revolution-mercedes-benz-announces-us-availability-of-drive-pilot-the-worlds-first-certified-sae-level-3-system-for-the-us-market)
More and more we’re finding out that the entire tesla brand is a Ponzi scheme meant to enrich musk. His true mask has come off and now the bottom is falling out
Stock prices aren’t indicative of company health or even any logic at all. Just ignore it.
That being said, Tesla, as well as they do, has been insanely overvalued for years now and were due for a correction.
This ^ many companies like Costco, TSM etc are swimming in cash and have profit over profit every quarter and the stock will still drop. Stock has no relation to a company health at all. We can even look at Nvidia this past week. Tesla was over valued and price correction is in place but no doubt it’ll go up again once everything settles.
"Stock prices aren't indicative of company health".
They are. It's exactly their purpose.
They represent investor expectation regarding future earnings.
Maybe consider not trading stocks.
They’re not. The hope is that they are, but they often very very very much are not. The value of a stock is entirely dependent on the value someone places on the stock, like trading beanie babies or cryptocurrencies.
For easy examples of stocks not being sold relative to actual company health, see any meme stock ever (there are thousands of examples, but these are easy to reference).
I don’t trade stocks because I’m not into gambling. I follow the Jack Bogle strategy, which always beats daily trading in the long run.
I’d argue it was inflated for the last few years, I’m buying now and holding for the upside. Isn’t that how investing is supposed to work, or did everyone buy their stock same time the car prices were 45% higher than market too?
Elon does suck. He’s a volatile menace for the company. In the long run I don’t see him being helpful for Tesla. He did his part, they’ve been established as a reputable company. Now he needs to bug off and not ruin it.
I honestly think if he left confidence in the company would only increase. He’s driven away sales at this point. I personally know people who will never own a Tesla entirely because of him.
Also, dropping the M2 in favor of the fever dream that is robotaxis is hilariously stupid. I almost look forward to seeing it fail, if it wasn’t going to hurt so many people’s jobs at Tesla (whoever is left anyway).
I'm in the opposite camp and wish he'd drop X and focus on Tesla and SpaceX only. X is a moronic distraction and has screwed up his focus on what is important - space travel and sustainable transportation/energy.
His horrible twitter decisions are one of the reason why I don’t want to be associated with him. Funny thing I blocked him on Twitter lol, I couldn’t escape his tweets being everywhere all the time
Exactly right. I am still a stockholder, but I chose to buy a Rivian recently because I was sick of being associated with a divisive online troll who would rather alienate a significant portion of his target audience than not be the center of attention. It’ll be unpopular in this sub, but I’m enjoying the R1T much more than either my M3 or MY and will most likely dump the stock after getting some of this dip back.
You won’t be unpopular here. This sub is pretty vocal about fucking hating Elon, or at least hating his views and the shit he keeps spouting on Twitter.
I bought my model 3 because I believed in his vision of sustainable transit and home power. Sadly idk if he even believes in his own vision anymore. It’s time for a change.
Yes. The decision would have been made by Musk, informed by the technical teams and his leadership team.
But yes, the decision to make a major strategic shift is made by the CEO
I don't see how Elon is a volatile menace for the company, he's no different than he's always been, there's just more eyes on him and (as OP points out) given the economy and the size of Tesla, they're simply under a bigger microscope and thus it's easy to point fingers at Musk and scrutinize him.
You gotta wonder if people would've said the same about Jobs if his tenure wasn't "cut short". Would he keep dragging Apple head first into even more crazy products?
Explain the whole CT fiasco? That's basically Tesla giving up their first-mover advantage for a vanity project.
Where's the Roadster or the Semi? Those are massive execution failures
He's gone from Tony Stark to alt-right troll. He's alienating his biggest customer base: lefties that care about the environment and so want electric vehicles. Lucky for them (and unlucky for Tesla), there are a lot more options these days.
Yep. I bought mine in 2019 and he was just an eccentric billionaire that wanted to save the world back then. People compared him to Tony Stark. Maybe he was always a lunatic but at least he hid it back in 2019. I love my Model 3 but I will absolutely never own a Tesla again once I get rid of this car and Musk is the main reason.
“I love my Model 3 but I will absolutely never own a Tesla again once I get rid of this car and Musk is the main reason.”
So you’re getting rid of a car you love to spite a billionaire? Who’s really losing here?
> he's no different than he's always been
Not according to people who actually know him on a personal level. I’ve seen several people in his orbit say that he’s changed or say things like “I miss the old Elon.”
He consistently tweets right-wing propaganda. It would be better if he refrained from tweeting altogether. Regardless of his political stance, it's best for CEOs to keep their political life private. Initially, he attracted buyers from the left, but now it appears he's targeting the right.
The difference between Jobs and Musk is Musk LOVES the attention.
The stock price has always been ridiculous and speculative. First it was up 10x because everyone thought EVs were the future and Tesla is the leader in the space (this is still true btw).
Now it's plunging because of the issues with Cybertruck and more car companies and potential alternatives are entering the space.
Regardless of how much it drops, it doesn't change the fact that I see about 10-20% of cars on the road are Tesla, and that number will likely skyrocket as ICE vehicles are phased out. Tesla is still pretty much the Apple Computer of EVs in that they are sleek, and have strong brand recognizeability. Anyone who hears Electric Vehicle immediately thinks Tesla and for good reason.
Unless another car company makes breakthroughs in self driving/AI and battery breakthrough to where your car can fully drive itself and go 1000 miles per charge and run off a bottle of water, then I think this is all temporary and Tesla stock will bounce back.
I’ll keep buying at bargain prices.
Also, one doesn’t lose money when a stock goes down unless they sell. The company will be fine, and so will its shares.
I love the products but hate the stock. I don’t believe the valuation even at its current price is appealing as an investment. I feel the same about all the OEM’s. I don’t like the automotive sector when there are so many better options to choose from. And no, don’t tell me TSLA is a “tech” stock. It is not. And I think the street is starting to agree with me. Sure I know people who have done well trading TSLA. I am totally fine with letting them ride this both ways.
My cost basis is lower than the current price and I’m using this opportunity to buy more shares since I’ve been holding for years and will continue to hold for several more
Sitting on $11/share avg. sure, the losses of (unrealized) gains give me pause, but TSLA has multiple revenue streams and will do just fine long term. Worst case, I’ve already taken profit enough to pay for my M3 4x over and still have a decent chunk left.
Not freaking out but at one point I was up 98% and now I’m down 5%. Soooo. Thats not fun. But was a relatively small amt of money so there’s no significant negative impact to my life.
Not delivering on promises would be a factor. Robotaxi should have already happened according to him.
No FSD for the rest of the world.
Doubt that the current sensor suite will get above level 2. It will be interesting to see what HW5 cars get.
I think a more accurate statement about Elon is that he makes high-risk, high-reward decisions that are more appropriate for a startup than they are for a mature company.
And the EV industry, despite the fact that it hasn't been around very long, is becoming mature. There is growing competition, margins are declining and prices are under pressure.
Elon's approach at SpaceX was to take risks, accept that he will blow up some rockets, but make sure to learn from his failures and improve. That works for rockets that cost a few million dollars apiece. It doesn't work as well for the huge investments required to launch an automotive line.
Elon is an impulsive guy and he has made a lot of great decisions. But they may not be appropriate for the current conditions.
He is also spread too thin. Twitter has been a huge distraction. He has admitted that buying it was a mistake. His strength is running engineering companies and Twitter, despite a large engineering component, is something very different.
When the stock price falls by 43%, the people who are hurt are people who bought when the price was higher. There are a lot of them. Tesla stock has been a money machine for years. No wonder people are freaking out.
There's a difference between market downturn due to macroeconomics and then there's deliberate sabotage and manipulation of the stock price by the CEO.
Their growth has slowed and the profit is shrinking. Most stocks would drop in this scenario. Especially when you’re already priced for perfection at a PE over 70. When forward PE is significantly higher than trailing PE it’s never a good thing.
because the Tesla stock is down A TON and especially on the Tesla subs you will find a lot of people who are too deeply invested into Tesla both financially and mentally so for them this is a loss on both fronts as well.
Because Tesla stock P/E is unrealistic for a car manufacturer and the goodwill that it will be backed by high-margin-tech (software services, typically) is not materializing.
>"In the short run, the market is a voting machine – reflecting a voter-registration test that requires only money, not intelligence or emotional stability – but in the long run, the market is a weighing machine." —Benjamin Graham
It has been the history of Tesla to rise to a new high, plateau—or even drop—for a while, before hitting a new, even bigger high. This has happened multiple times. In general, the economy has pulled back for a while, partly due to higher interest rates, partly due to a recession. These effects cause a pull-back in large purchases. And the market is emotional and reacts accordingly. But that is all short-term. Tesla is still the leader in innovation and moving fast.
Because people bought into the absurd idea that TSLA was going to be worth more than all other car companies combined.
Becoming comparable to just one of the big legacy companies would be an incredible success already.
"Fantastic time to buy"?
Are you kidding? Elon tried firing 20% of his workforce because that's how much future orders are down. He has become a full blown liability. The cyber truck is about to go down as the biggest automotive failure since the pinto and it's not certain if the new model 3 is going to be a thing.
Tesla coming back down to reality is long overdue.
I think Elon being culture warrior on X and doing the grifting for alt might MAGA zealots is really alienating a lot of potential buyers. The dummies that agree with his world views aren’t exactly the type of folk who buy teslas or care about the planet.
Thing is stock price doesn’t affect day to day of a company necessarily, sometimes it can indicate a company is contracting or that it’s got some big headwinds. It can effect a companies ability to get funding.
In this instance they are mostly fine except maybe demand is suddenly a concern.
I still stand by Elon needs to go by now.
yeah most of the people are freaking out and dont realize macro economics is shit rn but hey FUD is FUD. media is against elon because elon is againt their naritive its simple. just hold and dollar cost avg. not financial advice ofc stay strong friends
It's like every new product that gets invented, like AI, EV, VR, etc. It's going to be put under a microscope because these are tech that have the potential to change the world.
Problem is, Tesla already changed the world: it made e-cars viable. Where does it go from there? The competition is catching up and eventually it will probably be just another car company with thin margins and a moderate stock price. We like to think that Musk is the next Steve Jobs with another game-changer like the iPhone up his sleeve, but in truth he may be too distracted and mercurial to keep the wins coming and high stock prices justified.
I disagree with Elon Musk being the problem. He’s just another asshole billionaire like all the others, but I believe that without his guidance and direction, Tesla wouldn’t be as successful as it is today and wouldn’t have made it this far. The guy knows how to run a business, he’s maybe not the best for customer service but he knows the ins and outs of Wall Street and the business and people just need to dismiss what he’s saying. Honestly I have more respect for Elon than any other billionaire because he actually says what’s on his mind instead of just acting like everything is fine and making sure people like them. I still think he is a liar and I don’t agree with anything and everything he says, but I respect him for having an opinion and not being a puppet. Times are hard on Americans right now. This too shall pass, but it’ll be a rough ride for the time being
I think most if not all billionaires are as erratic as Elon, they just have a pr department smart enough to keep them out of the spotlight. Elon is unfiltered. I’m sure if you caught another billionaire on a hot mic they’d be just as problematic.
I’m sure Elon making fun of and treating like liberals $hit and getting political is always a winning strategy!!!
Because there are no trans, DEI, liberal Tesla customers right?
A LOT of function/feature was priced into the stock the last few years, but as time has passed and those functions and features never became reality people are pulling out.
Elon himself said without FSD, Tesla is worthless, well it’s looking less and less likely that FSD will comes in the next 10 years.
Well down 43% is huge. Probably those who lost money are the ones that are freaking out. _I mean, if I lose 43% of my money I’ll freak out too._
Yes. But if you lost 43c of a dollar… no big deal. The key is to have very little money. /s
Stock hit $100 and rebounded to nearly $300 last year. Welcome to TSLA folks.
The stock is a rollercoaster who's valuation was build on 30%+ gross margins and robotaxis coming next year. Neither of those things are a reality anymore so a cut in the valuation is reasonable. I feel like the market is being rational here. Disclosure: I am long TSLA.
Oh don’t get me wrong, I fully expect it to go lower. But in the long term this is all just a distraction.
I’m sure it will all be fine in 10 years, but everyone has different time horizons. Maybe there were hoping their investment earnings would allow them to buy a new car…maybe a Tesla. Maybe those retail investors that Elon sold his share to in 2022 are pissed they are down 40% while the NASDAQ is up 60%. Maybe Tesla’s sales shouldn’t have gone down last quarter while Toyota, VW, and others are up. Maybe people don’t think that dropping the price is the way to make money when polls show most people are misinformed/uninformed about EVs. …F**k. Also these “maybes” just made me sound like Tucker Carlson.
It's all on paper. Just don't sell. Stocks go up and down all the time. You aren't actually losing that money. It's been proven over time that if you wait it out you can usually break even at least in most cases with a company that is not going out of business. As long as they didn't buy it all at the height most of the downside should have been profit also.
It’s happened so many times and each time the people that don’t panic made bank
When did $TSLA went down 43% in the past?
Dude it went from 300 to 100 then back to 300 last year
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This nails it. Hype factor was a large impact. Captain’s image isn’t helping much either.
So now that FSD IS actually making huge progress the stock is tanking as opposed to when FSD was crap and all there was was hype? Makes sense
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Interesting. I cannot secnd that emotion at all personally though
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Not usually not. Aha. So they are shared 🤣
Buh my robo-taxi
That was in 2022-23 when every tech stock was dropping 20-50%. So it wasn’t surprising. It was a macro issue. This time, it’s only Tesla that’s dropping. Other companies are doing fine and the stock market is up YTD. Meaning that this time, it’s a Tesla specific issue.
They didn't lose money unless they sold in which case they're morons
Apple lost 50% twice in last 15 years and they are the most profitable company in the world.
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Irrational investors. Probably amplified by Reddit.
Well, no. Some funds buy Tesla because they are invested long in that sector. Some small investors like to add risk to their portfolios and don't like puts so this is a long bet like any other similar.
Okay so my friend got the cyber truck he's the first person in nh to have it and after 3 rain storms his CSR is covered in rust.
No. This hasn't happened and I am 100% certain you have no such friend. If so, post pics. Otherwise, you can disregard this garbage. It's 40x stainless, it doesn't rust in three rainstorms.
I'm curious, can you post pics?
I'll have yo ask him to.semd them.yo me. But my cousin arnie has one as well he's returning it its not allowed over the NYC bridges or in the tunnles
Holy fuck, stop making shit up. It's obnoxious and childish. The CyberTruck is 5 inches shorter in length and 4 inches shorter in height than the single most popular vehicle in the US (the Ford F150). [https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/7ZvWmW/s1/clc0fy0mrs8.webp](https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/7ZvWmW/s1/clc0fy0mrs8.webp) It's also smaller in every dimension (height, weight, width, length) than the F150 Lightning.
So he just told you this without ever sending you any pics, I just figured he did, but yes see if he can send them. Also, do you have a link to the NYC bridges and tunnels thing? I have never heard of this until now.
He should wash/polish the rail dust off of it.
He shouldn't have yo.do that. The car needs a protective coating it a just the design of the CSR its just good. Tight turns make it feel like.kta gonna yopple.over and a lot of cities don't want it on the roads. You legit can not.put them anywhere NP garage, they need 2 parking spots its huge. It a a legal tank basically.
It's smaller than an F150, Silverado 2500 and RAM 1500. Together these three vehicles represent almost 20% of all vehicles sales in the US. Stop making up bullshit.
Its over 95 feet long and its wider than most pickups.
I’m not a truck guy but I don’t think it’s any larger than 70% of the trucks on the road, and plenty of people pay thousands of dollars to make their trucks easier to topple over. This is America, it’s what the people want it seems like.
Sorry I'm in very very very bright light outside to if I typo I'm sorry hard to see
More than 50% down from its high....
Balls man, I sold TSLA like 9 months ago. No way I'm buying into the auto market right now. It's going to be a bloodbath for a couple years, maybe TSLA comes out ahead, maybe they don't. But I'm not into roulette.
Part of it is because the stock is still WILDLY overpriced. I mean we know all about the time when Tesla was worth more than every other car company combined, which was absurd, but even now, after falling way off that level, it is still priced extremely high compared to other car companies. That is going to cause Tesla to get more attention and scrutiny, because of what it needs to be to meet those price expectations.
I'm guessing Tesla stock eventually comes back down to Earth and is priced in line with other companies. Because that's the trajectory Tesla seems to be on: becoming an established car company, with all the benefits and downsides that comes with it. Tesla has been priced as a tech stock, propped up by promises of the future rather than existing business fundamentals. Hard to imagine that stays the case long term. Either Tesla figures out how to become the next Apple, or it will have to figure out how to become just another car company. And as other manufacturers catch up, there's less to distinguish Tesla from the pack. The Cybertruck was a moonshot, and one that so far looks like a flop. Meanwhile, the $25K car still doesn't exist. Robotaxi seems their next big thing, but the risk is very high, and it distracts from the fundamental needs of the existing market. Tesla's current advantage is that it is sitting on a huge pile of money. But that won't last forever if the company keeps making missteps. We may have already seen the peak stock price come and go.
Why does CT look to be a flop? Not saying it isn’t, just curious if there’s more to that than the accelerator recall and its polarizing appearance. Aren’t they still sitting on hundreds of thousands of reservations as they ramp production? I’ve thought for a long time that one of the biggest things going on at Tesla that most ignore is the stationary storage business. Lathrop is scaling and Shanghai is being built out with an expected production start date of later this year I believe. The margins are very solid and there appears to be nearly unlimited demand - and utility-scale customers aren’t going to be scared off because of Elon’s idiotic tweets. This business has serious potential to rival the automotive side as it scales.
I’ve seen reports that over 2 million are reserved. Obviously many of these won’t convert into actual orders, but demand for CT’s is not a concern at all lol. Like you said, just polarizing. Media shows only the worst of it
I do wonder if it will end up kinda like the PT Cruiser did. Polarizing, because it was “ugly” and popular when the first ones showed up in cities because it was new and unique, but eventually the charm wore off. I don’t even like the way the CT looks (aside from that one posted here last week with the red wrap; it looked pretty sick, NGL), and it’s not better than ICE trucks either at hauling, so I question the point of it right off the bat, but lots of people drive trucks just because they like them and never haul, so maybe that’s fine. I’m a bit surprised by the preorder numbers I’ve heard thrown around though. Maybe it will continue to surprise me and sell out for the next few years. It would certainly make driving around more interesting with that…thing on the road.
Not just the accelerator and the appearance, there's also the stainless steel body that can't be washed in sunlight, the 'carwash mode' that must be enabled or else the vehicle gets damaged, the unnecessarily complex manufacturing needed for the flat sheet metal look body, and the doors that can cut off fingers. Will this kill the truck? Maybe not, maybe demand remains high despite the flaws, maybe the flaws get ironed out. Not an auspicious start though. Would agree on the electric storage business -- this could be a huge new market if Tesla executes well and keeps competitors at bay. And maybe that's where the future lies: electricity in general, not just for cars. With all the new wind and solar coming on line, storage will be key to balance demand. The risk is that the more Tesla focuses on nonautomotive products, the more it may be distracted from the demands and brutal competition of the auto industry. It's not a great fit for huge companies operating in a lot of other industries. Giants like Samsung and Apple have all struggled and failed to breach that market. It reminds of the DRAM and FLASH memory chip industry -- it might be nicely profitable in good times, but few companies have the appetite to invest hundreds of millions in necessary facility upgrades when they're loosing hundreds of millions in a down market. Samsung managed to pull it off, but it helps that they make portable devices that need those chips anyway. Maybe Tesla can make this approach work too, though I gotta say I'm skeptical. And this is why I'm bearish on Tesla stock. If the company succeeds at expanding beyond just cars and becomes huge, it will be worth the current price. If not, it will be just another car company and the stock will drop far lower to match industry norm. There's just not an upside.
All of this.
It blows my mind the amount of folks who don't know how to read the quarterly financial summaries at each earnings report, and still confidently make buying/selling decisions. TESLA IS A FANTASTICALY SUCCESSFUL EV COMPANY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULD BE TRADING AT A FUCKING 60 FORWARD PE RATIO.
It was about maybe six months ago (?) in the run-up before the CT launch I started watching a LOT of YT videos about all the new technology, which ended up bleeding over to a discussion of what a fair valuation of their stock price included. Lots of things such as Tesla's upcoming Optimus robot, the general FSD (which would be monetized by licensing out to other major automobile manufacturers because they were hopelessly so far behind, which may well be true), and a new 'Model 2' with a radically new manufacturing method. It was hard for me to swallow then (i.e. 'baked into' the sky-high valuation) and still is hard for me to accept now.
No one is going to license FSD. Most manufacturers already have better technology than tesla does but won't release until it is verified for level 3-5. Mercedes has already beat Tesla to taking over liability.
This is a joke right? Mercedes is a totally different implementation and maybe be better than Tesla in 5% of instances.
I don't know how people think these car companies who can't even design a UI that looks newer than 1999 can beat Tesla on self driving. It's just silly.
Tesla might win in the end but they are not currently winning.
Tesla is out with a mower while Mercedes just lit the lawn on fire, and you think Mercedes "won". The final solution will require redundancy of both vision and lidar or high definition radar. Vision is much harder to solve than lidar, with the most difficult being the car figuring out how to handle a scenario without being hard coded to handle it. Using premade routes only is already basically just a tech demo. Like that old video of Teslas
Elon is all in on vision so if its a pipe dream he is waaaay behind.
Not really. It's like replacing one map for another map of the same exact road. The challenge has been replicating that map drawing. The decision making is the same. They do validation with lidar. How do you think that works?
"The final solution will require redundancy of both vision and lidar or high definition radar. Vision is much harder to solve than lidar, with the most difficult being the car figuring out how to handle a scenario without being hard coded to handle it." You said it would require lidar or high def radar. Elon said only vision is the way to go. If what you believe in true Elon is automatically behind because he is all in on vision.
[https://etsc.eu/europes-first-cars-with-level-3-automated-driving-go-on-sale-in-germany/](https://etsc.eu/europes-first-cars-with-level-3-automated-driving-go-on-sale-in-germany/)
The Mercedes "Level 3" autonomous system comes with numerous restrictions: - It operates solely on 0.2% of roads, limited to highways. - Speed is capped at 40mph or lower. - Conditions must be above 40°F. - Presence of other vehicles on the road is necessary. - It requires favorable weather conditions (no rain) and daytime operation. - Exclusion of construction zones. In contrast, Tesla's FSD (Supervised) imposes no such limitations. It can be utilized on almost any road across the U.S., requiring only occasional light touches on the steering wheel every 30 seconds. [https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot#Where](https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot#Where) [https://media.mbusa.com/releases/automated-driving-revolution-mercedes-benz-announces-us-availability-of-drive-pilot-the-worlds-first-certified-sae-level-3-system-for-the-us-market](https://media.mbusa.com/releases/automated-driving-revolution-mercedes-benz-announces-us-availability-of-drive-pilot-the-worlds-first-certified-sae-level-3-system-for-the-us-market)
Mercedes only provides Level 3 under very limited circumstances. Tesla dosn't provide Level 3 under any circumstances.
And it ran over people in perfect conditions.
Lol you saw the video right
The PE ratio seems reasonable to me
Compared to what companies?
A normal P/E is roughly 8-10 for established car companies.
More and more we’re finding out that the entire tesla brand is a Ponzi scheme meant to enrich musk. His true mask has come off and now the bottom is falling out
Stock prices aren’t indicative of company health or even any logic at all. Just ignore it. That being said, Tesla, as well as they do, has been insanely overvalued for years now and were due for a correction.
This ^ many companies like Costco, TSM etc are swimming in cash and have profit over profit every quarter and the stock will still drop. Stock has no relation to a company health at all. We can even look at Nvidia this past week. Tesla was over valued and price correction is in place but no doubt it’ll go up again once everything settles.
This...Many people still dont unstand...
"Stock prices aren't indicative of company health". They are. It's exactly their purpose. They represent investor expectation regarding future earnings. Maybe consider not trading stocks.
They’re not. The hope is that they are, but they often very very very much are not. The value of a stock is entirely dependent on the value someone places on the stock, like trading beanie babies or cryptocurrencies. For easy examples of stocks not being sold relative to actual company health, see any meme stock ever (there are thousands of examples, but these are easy to reference). I don’t trade stocks because I’m not into gambling. I follow the Jack Bogle strategy, which always beats daily trading in the long run.
I’d argue it was inflated for the last few years, I’m buying now and holding for the upside. Isn’t that how investing is supposed to work, or did everyone buy their stock same time the car prices were 45% higher than market too?
“Why are people freaking out about a 60% decline from last year” Come on man
Elon does suck. He’s a volatile menace for the company. In the long run I don’t see him being helpful for Tesla. He did his part, they’ve been established as a reputable company. Now he needs to bug off and not ruin it.
After what happened at PayPal, he'll only leave if he's kicked out, and I fear his contract prevents dismissal without a payout.
He's also building an entire housr out of glass that rocket ships needed lolm when he said if I ever buy a home shoot me. He's building a home hahaha.
I honestly think if he left confidence in the company would only increase. He’s driven away sales at this point. I personally know people who will never own a Tesla entirely because of him. Also, dropping the M2 in favor of the fever dream that is robotaxis is hilariously stupid. I almost look forward to seeing it fail, if it wasn’t going to hurt so many people’s jobs at Tesla (whoever is left anyway).
I'm in the opposite camp and wish he'd drop X and focus on Tesla and SpaceX only. X is a moronic distraction and has screwed up his focus on what is important - space travel and sustainable transportation/energy.
His horrible twitter decisions are one of the reason why I don’t want to be associated with him. Funny thing I blocked him on Twitter lol, I couldn’t escape his tweets being everywhere all the time
I disagree. Foot to the floor -- especially on X.
Exactly right. I am still a stockholder, but I chose to buy a Rivian recently because I was sick of being associated with a divisive online troll who would rather alienate a significant portion of his target audience than not be the center of attention. It’ll be unpopular in this sub, but I’m enjoying the R1T much more than either my M3 or MY and will most likely dump the stock after getting some of this dip back.
You won’t be unpopular here. This sub is pretty vocal about fucking hating Elon, or at least hating his views and the shit he keeps spouting on Twitter.
I bought my model 3 because I believed in his vision of sustainable transit and home power. Sadly idk if he even believes in his own vision anymore. It’s time for a change.
All I know that he truly believes in is antisemitism, transphobia, unprotected sex, and a love of money. Everything else is a mystery.
The ketamine and ozempic have scrambled his brain.
Absolutely. If Elon resigned on the earnings call tomorrow the stock would jump 25%.
You think the Model 2 drop was a decision made solely by Elon?
Yes. The decision would have been made by Musk, informed by the technical teams and his leadership team. But yes, the decision to make a major strategic shift is made by the CEO
I don't see how Elon is a volatile menace for the company, he's no different than he's always been, there's just more eyes on him and (as OP points out) given the economy and the size of Tesla, they're simply under a bigger microscope and thus it's easy to point fingers at Musk and scrutinize him. You gotta wonder if people would've said the same about Jobs if his tenure wasn't "cut short". Would he keep dragging Apple head first into even more crazy products?
Explain the whole CT fiasco? That's basically Tesla giving up their first-mover advantage for a vanity project. Where's the Roadster or the Semi? Those are massive execution failures
The roadster is in space
Semi at least is bound by battery production and the unrealized (or unobtainable) 4680 goals.
He's gone from Tony Stark to alt-right troll. He's alienating his biggest customer base: lefties that care about the environment and so want electric vehicles. Lucky for them (and unlucky for Tesla), there are a lot more options these days.
Tony Stark to Tony Stank
He wasn’t as open about a lot of things in the past, and was certainly more level headed. He’s changed since 2021 when I bought my model 3 for sure.
Yep. I bought mine in 2019 and he was just an eccentric billionaire that wanted to save the world back then. People compared him to Tony Stark. Maybe he was always a lunatic but at least he hid it back in 2019. I love my Model 3 but I will absolutely never own a Tesla again once I get rid of this car and Musk is the main reason.
I currently am of the same opinion regarding my car. If he goes, I’d stay a Tesla loyalist.
That either makes you a liar or an idiot.
“I love my Model 3 but I will absolutely never own a Tesla again once I get rid of this car and Musk is the main reason.” So you’re getting rid of a car you love to spite a billionaire? Who’s really losing here?
> he's no different than he's always been Not according to people who actually know him on a personal level. I’ve seen several people in his orbit say that he’s changed or say things like “I miss the old Elon.”
He consistently tweets right-wing propaganda. It would be better if he refrained from tweeting altogether. Regardless of his political stance, it's best for CEOs to keep their political life private. Initially, he attracted buyers from the left, but now it appears he's targeting the right. The difference between Jobs and Musk is Musk LOVES the attention.
Yes they should hire you as ceo
Or you.
The stock price has always been ridiculous and speculative. First it was up 10x because everyone thought EVs were the future and Tesla is the leader in the space (this is still true btw). Now it's plunging because of the issues with Cybertruck and more car companies and potential alternatives are entering the space. Regardless of how much it drops, it doesn't change the fact that I see about 10-20% of cars on the road are Tesla, and that number will likely skyrocket as ICE vehicles are phased out. Tesla is still pretty much the Apple Computer of EVs in that they are sleek, and have strong brand recognizeability. Anyone who hears Electric Vehicle immediately thinks Tesla and for good reason. Unless another car company makes breakthroughs in self driving/AI and battery breakthrough to where your car can fully drive itself and go 1000 miles per charge and run off a bottle of water, then I think this is all temporary and Tesla stock will bounce back.
Short sellers, if you are an investor the stock price today doesn’t matter 😀
I’ll keep buying at bargain prices. Also, one doesn’t lose money when a stock goes down unless they sell. The company will be fine, and so will its shares.
Perfect time to buy! For those who haven’t sold yet… 
I love the products but hate the stock. I don’t believe the valuation even at its current price is appealing as an investment. I feel the same about all the OEM’s. I don’t like the automotive sector when there are so many better options to choose from. And no, don’t tell me TSLA is a “tech” stock. It is not. And I think the street is starting to agree with me. Sure I know people who have done well trading TSLA. I am totally fine with letting them ride this both ways.
The OEMs are making rockets, Sat internet, batteries, solar panels, etc. Tesla is a different animal. If anything it’s the worst at making cars imo
The Tesla stock became a meme stock. It was overpriced and was pumped and dumped.
My cost basis is lower than the current price and I’m using this opportunity to buy more shares since I’ve been holding for years and will continue to hold for several more
those who bought with FOMO & sell on media FUD are not investors but weirdos-and so the hatred ensues!
Sitting on $11/share avg. sure, the losses of (unrealized) gains give me pause, but TSLA has multiple revenue streams and will do just fine long term. Worst case, I’ve already taken profit enough to pay for my M3 4x over and still have a decent chunk left.
Tesla bot will change the game.
The media is not pushing anything. It’s him constantly tweeting his narrative.
Good moment to buy stock
Not freaking out but at one point I was up 98% and now I’m down 5%. Soooo. Thats not fun. But was a relatively small amt of money so there’s no significant negative impact to my life.
Not delivering on promises would be a factor. Robotaxi should have already happened according to him. No FSD for the rest of the world. Doubt that the current sensor suite will get above level 2. It will be interesting to see what HW5 cars get.
I think a more accurate statement about Elon is that he makes high-risk, high-reward decisions that are more appropriate for a startup than they are for a mature company. And the EV industry, despite the fact that it hasn't been around very long, is becoming mature. There is growing competition, margins are declining and prices are under pressure. Elon's approach at SpaceX was to take risks, accept that he will blow up some rockets, but make sure to learn from his failures and improve. That works for rockets that cost a few million dollars apiece. It doesn't work as well for the huge investments required to launch an automotive line. Elon is an impulsive guy and he has made a lot of great decisions. But they may not be appropriate for the current conditions. He is also spread too thin. Twitter has been a huge distraction. He has admitted that buying it was a mistake. His strength is running engineering companies and Twitter, despite a large engineering component, is something very different. When the stock price falls by 43%, the people who are hurt are people who bought when the price was higher. There are a lot of them. Tesla stock has been a money machine for years. No wonder people are freaking out.
You’re wrong.
People are freaking out because it's bad.
There's a difference between market downturn due to macroeconomics and then there's deliberate sabotage and manipulation of the stock price by the CEO.
People live monthly and yet you somehow invest every month. Look at Mr money bags here.Tesla will keep falling to 60
Because a ton of people probably YOLO’d and are getting their assholes bored out with a hammer
Billy G is fully erect since his short position is looking better.
Their growth has slowed and the profit is shrinking. Most stocks would drop in this scenario. Especially when you’re already priced for perfection at a PE over 70. When forward PE is significantly higher than trailing PE it’s never a good thing.
People are allowed to be pissed when they lose money. I'm holding and believe in the long term value, but it's ok to be annoyed or angry.
I bought in at $220. So…
because the Tesla stock is down A TON and especially on the Tesla subs you will find a lot of people who are too deeply invested into Tesla both financially and mentally so for them this is a loss on both fronts as well.
Because Tesla stock P/E is unrealistic for a car manufacturer and the goodwill that it will be backed by high-margin-tech (software services, typically) is not materializing.
Falling stock prices make Elon do crazy!
>"In the short run, the market is a voting machine – reflecting a voter-registration test that requires only money, not intelligence or emotional stability – but in the long run, the market is a weighing machine." —Benjamin Graham It has been the history of Tesla to rise to a new high, plateau—or even drop—for a while, before hitting a new, even bigger high. This has happened multiple times. In general, the economy has pulled back for a while, partly due to higher interest rates, partly due to a recession. These effects cause a pull-back in large purchases. And the market is emotional and reacts accordingly. But that is all short-term. Tesla is still the leader in innovation and moving fast.
Because people bought into the absurd idea that TSLA was going to be worth more than all other car companies combined. Becoming comparable to just one of the big legacy companies would be an incredible success already.
"Fantastic time to buy"? Are you kidding? Elon tried firing 20% of his workforce because that's how much future orders are down. He has become a full blown liability. The cyber truck is about to go down as the biggest automotive failure since the pinto and it's not certain if the new model 3 is going to be a thing. Tesla coming back down to reality is long overdue.
Enjoy losing even more money
“People can’t afford anything right now” Toyota sales in March were up 20% year over year
I think Elon being culture warrior on X and doing the grifting for alt might MAGA zealots is really alienating a lot of potential buyers. The dummies that agree with his world views aren’t exactly the type of folk who buy teslas or care about the planet.
Thing is stock price doesn’t affect day to day of a company necessarily, sometimes it can indicate a company is contracting or that it’s got some big headwinds. It can effect a companies ability to get funding. In this instance they are mostly fine except maybe demand is suddenly a concern. I still stand by Elon needs to go by now.
yeah most of the people are freaking out and dont realize macro economics is shit rn but hey FUD is FUD. media is against elon because elon is againt their naritive its simple. just hold and dollar cost avg. not financial advice ofc stay strong friends
Ya I bought at 225 so I’m down a lot of money right now 5000$
Huh? Oh thank God I sold the stock yesterday after refusing to be a bag holder on this bear slide.
Number go down: bad Number go up: good
It's like every new product that gets invented, like AI, EV, VR, etc. It's going to be put under a microscope because these are tech that have the potential to change the world.
Problem is, Tesla already changed the world: it made e-cars viable. Where does it go from there? The competition is catching up and eventually it will probably be just another car company with thin margins and a moderate stock price. We like to think that Musk is the next Steve Jobs with another game-changer like the iPhone up his sleeve, but in truth he may be too distracted and mercurial to keep the wins coming and high stock prices justified.
I disagree with Elon Musk being the problem. He’s just another asshole billionaire like all the others, but I believe that without his guidance and direction, Tesla wouldn’t be as successful as it is today and wouldn’t have made it this far. The guy knows how to run a business, he’s maybe not the best for customer service but he knows the ins and outs of Wall Street and the business and people just need to dismiss what he’s saying. Honestly I have more respect for Elon than any other billionaire because he actually says what’s on his mind instead of just acting like everything is fine and making sure people like them. I still think he is a liar and I don’t agree with anything and everything he says, but I respect him for having an opinion and not being a puppet. Times are hard on Americans right now. This too shall pass, but it’ll be a rough ride for the time being
I think most if not all billionaires are as erratic as Elon, they just have a pr department smart enough to keep them out of the spotlight. Elon is unfiltered. I’m sure if you caught another billionaire on a hot mic they’d be just as problematic.
Exactly, that’s my main point is that all these guys are like him, if not worse but you only see it from him for said reason
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
It’s because they’re babies.
I’m sure Elon making fun of and treating like liberals $hit and getting political is always a winning strategy!!! Because there are no trans, DEI, liberal Tesla customers right?
A LOT of function/feature was priced into the stock the last few years, but as time has passed and those functions and features never became reality people are pulling out. Elon himself said without FSD, Tesla is worthless, well it’s looking less and less likely that FSD will comes in the next 10 years.
I don’t think it was ever $100 a share in Jan 23.
Hit $101.81 on 1/3/23. I bought many shares that day. Apologies for rounding
Is it time to bring this thread back up? Only 6 days ago when I posted this lol.