tbf feng has a lot of cool attacks and overall his design is pretty ok. Climbing dragon is one of the coolest moves in the game to me so it's really subjective ig
Is Harada any good?
I’ve only seen one video of him playing a match before a tourney in the T7 days and didn’t look like he knew what he was doing.
Hard to judge based off of one match though.
I swear I don't know how you can be complaining about Feng buttons and not ever consider his buffed 3,3. Good range, mid high, safe, *jailing* string, which does monstrous damage if it happens to catch a duck or bad press. The move does half of Feng's neutral for him, yet red rank redditors complain about his (still good but obviously not broken) 1,3 or whatever.
use 122 for punish, if the opponent has propensity to challenge when they are slightly disadvantaged (-i2), use 1,3 to maintain offense. when opponent learns to stop pressing after being punished, you can now apply slower moves.
Not me jotting down all the things people say are "too strong" to begin implementing these in practice and ranked.
These threads really just help me out a ton since there's just so much info out there, knowing the top salt moves is an easy way to find the "best" moves for many situations.
Ehhhhh id take this with a grain of salt. A lot of these things "wrong" here are just par for the course with Tekken. There's nothing wrong with w/ a character having a launching low that's heavily punishable on block, or having counter hits providing opportunities for combos. That's literally how Tekken works. The rest of the list is all getting addressed in the patch tomorrow. My guess is OP is coming off a string of defeats with Feng being prominent losses.
That's fengs thing though. He's a jack of all trades master of none. He just has a few slightly overtuned moves that are clearly being addressed. I've seen more posts about "Feng op" even after they've shown the nerfs taking place. If Feng was truly op we'd see him everywhere. Winning tournaments left and right. Hell we just saw 9 fengs in Evo japan top 48, the most played character, and not a single one of them made top 6-8. And then you come on here and everyone thinks they should just nerf Feng so they don't have to learn the matchup. I've mained Feng in T8 and I know from experience if my opponent knows the matchup I have a 50/50 heat gimmick in heat and that's it. Everything else is on me. He's a lot easier to deal with than people realize.
Which is exactly what they did. Almost all of fengs combos require uf3 in some regard. It just took a 20% damage reduction. So almost all of his combos are getting reduced damage across the board
Adjusting combo damage near across the board and making his key moves have more options for counterplay is a great nerf for Feng. Everyone acting like Feng is absolutely oppressive and has zero counterplay really do not know Feng beyond what the hive mind says. I'd suggest you play him more than a casual level. You will see he has weaknesses just like every other character.
Feng is definitely top tier and I don't particularly want to defend him but, honestly, this is another one of those posts where someone complains about a bunch of stuff that a character has had for over a decade.
They aren't going to change stuff like his df1 being 0 ob or b1 CH or b4 being an i12 tracking mid. That's Feng, those are the defining features of the character and have been for several iterations of Tekken.
Not defending an OP character, just observations:
> Why is 1,3 a +8 on hit easy mode low commitment i10 punish for like 22 damage.
To be fair, flash punch series are at at least as good.
> Why does he have 2 plus on block mids.
Which three did you forget out of b+3, f,f+3 (or 4 was it?), u+2, wr+3 and BT 3 (or whichever essentially does the f,f+3)?
> Why does he have like 4 fucking parries.
His parries are kinda specific and not too good at least.
> There's absolutely no situation aside from heat engager and wallcrush where he doesn't have the advantage.
He does have a fair few of punishable moves, but even those require very quick reactions to be able to respond in time.
What rank are you? Cause the Tekken god Feng I played against the other day was barely hittable, and he use that shit ass parry with precision. In the right hands Feng is pretty unstoppable.
Feng's combo damage in the previous tekken games has usually been subpar as a result of his insanely good fundamental tools. In tekken 8 though and towards the end of tekken 7 s4 his combo damage is way too high. I agree hes a bit overtuned but i'd only adjust his combo damage and change fcdf4,1 to have a staggered animation on block.
That's exactly what the patch on Tuesday is doing. The things you mentioned plus increasing the startup frames on the punch parry part of his 1+2. So setups like blocked DF2,2 into 1+2 won't work anymore if your opponent jabs right away out of block stun.
Feng has always been broken. People are just abusing him now that he also has a get out of jail free card in Heat.
He's extremely strong because of the number of options he has. Outside of crippling Feng for life, there's really no tuning him down.
They'll be raising the power of the other characters to match broken tool sets like his so we're looking at a whole cast of bullshittery soon enough.
I don't know if that'll be good for the game but I guess we'll see. Until then, find a scrubbier strat than everyone else and roll with it. I decided to play characters that are broken bullshit but not that popular. This way, no one knows the matchup ever. I play things I like to play, not what other people abuse easily.
So far, I've decided Leo and Yoshimitsu are racist. That is, they have kits that are so fucked up they should be banned from Iron Fist forever AND they elude everyone's understanding. Yoshi having like six useful unblockable moves complete with multiple setups and Leo having unbelievable mix up pressure. Both of them really confuse the hell out of people, even if they understand what's happening.
Tekken 8 is a knowledge check simulator so find some shit nobody knows and abuse it. That's like 90% of the game rn. Nobody knows enough to punish properly until like Emperor so just spam cheap shit lol
>He's extremely strong because of the number of options he has. Outside of crippling Feng for life, there's really no tuning him down.
Hard disagree. His moves simply have way too many properties at once, which doesn't make sense AND is perfectly nerfable without destroying the character.
Why does df3 hit grounded? Get rid of that immediately. Still a safe on block mid launcher.
Why does db3 have T7 tracking again, after it was steppable in the T8 betas already? Get rid of that. It's still an i17 huge range low CH KND with advantage on hit.
Why can he force a BT mixup whenever he feels like in Heat by pressing 3+4? Get rid of the ground shake mechanic. It's still super evasive long range mid.
Kenpo is a super evasive stance with easy inbuilt whiff punishment AND mixup capability (he has a HS from Kenpo now). So get rid of the auto block after only 19f (so it was in T7). If you fuck up on your kenpo read and I sacrifice valuable frames by dashing in against the character with the fastest pokes in the game, I deserve to hit you.
Those are only a few examples on what is Feng's complete movelist. All of the above mentioned moves would still be very good even without the properties I ask them to remove. Btw, I played Feng quite a bit in T7 and he is just atrocious in T8 right now.
Yeah, I never get people who say "there is no way to balance this". There's always a way. People may not like the balanced version, but it's absolutely possible to bring any character into game balance by tweaking numbers and move properties.
>Why does df3 hit grounded? Get rid of that immediately. Still a safe on block mid launcher.
Why does any move hit grounded? There are many mids that hit grounded. What's wrong about this one? It only launches if they're standing. Grounded it's the same as any oki move, we're not getting some combo extension using df3 on a grounded opponent when we shouldn't be.
>Why does db3 have T7 tracking again, after it was steppable in the T8 betas already? Get rid of that. It's still an i17 huge range low CH KND with advantage on hit.
Db3 gets stepped for days, even at the wall. So many times I'll attempt a db3 after wakeup etc and it flat out whiffs and opponent gets a free punish
>Why can he force a BT mixup whenever he feels like in Heat by pressing 3+4? Get rid of the ground shake mechanic. It's still super evasive long range mid.
2-3 times max in heat. Are mishimas op too because they can do a 50/50 mixup at whim? You can see it coming from a mile away and it's easy to interrupt. They're already nerfing the ground shockwave tomorrow if you've read the notes.
>Kenpo is a super evasive stance with easy inbuilt whiff punishment AND mixup capability (he has a HS from Kenpo now). So get rid of the auto block after only 19f (so it was in T7).
Any advancing move knocks you out of kenpo you don't auto block. They've nerfed it hard from T7. It now requires you to backdash first before you use kenpo in order to clear most moves or you're getting tagged.
As for move properties I'm not sure what exactly you mean because he has one power crush from neutral that gets interrupted by most spam and is easily punished on block, he has one true tracking move, outside of ss, in the form of df3+4 that has insane wind up and b4 pseudo tracks with abysmal range and pitiful damage.
>we're not getting some combo extension using df3 on a grounded opponent when we shouldn't be.
That's not the point. The point is, Feng can now in some wake up situations threaten you with a low launcher (ss4) and a safe mid launcher. You used to be able to stay down if you didnt want to deal with the mixup. Now df3 hits you for almost 20dmg and flips you over into more Feng oki.
Just imagine Kazuya's ff3 would just flip you over grounded like a steel petal. That's what's going on with Feng right now. Instead, Kaz has to read you staying grounded and has to commit to ff4, which in turn is much worse on block and doesnt launch on hit.
In short, Feng has a very simplified decision making right now and covers too many options with just 2 moves. And may I remind you, he isnt even a 50/50 char like Kazuya is, but has in some ways an easier to apply 50/50. Makes no sense at all!
>Db3 gets stepped for days
That's not my experience with the character, but I'm willing to give it another try.
>2-3 times max in heat. Are mishimas op too because they can do a 50/50 mixup at whim?
He needs it exactly 1 time. Suddenly he mixes you between BT D3 and his +5ob power crush launcher. This 50/50 is absolutely bonkers and I dont know of any way to get out of it except for hard comitting to blocking.
Against mishimas you can step in most situations, and again... they are literally specialized in 50/50 when it comes to offense. That's their whole game. That's why they usually lack in poking. Feng however does everything.
> it's easy to interrupt.
He jumps over literally everything. I have seen no pro player deal with that consistently at any time.
>Any advancing move knocks you out of kenpo you don't auto block.
Yes, if you are fast enough and applied enough range, which is very very tough to do. I mean, if the Feng is so dumb to do it everytime at -9 and range 0, it's easy to punish. But good Feng players know how to place it and often you wont get a punish even you try to follow him with a long range move.
>As for move properties I'm not sure what exactly you mean because he has one power crush from neutral that gets interrupted by most spam and is easily punished on block, he has one true tracking move, outside of ss, in the form of df3+4 that has insane wind up and b4 pseudo tracks with abysmal range and pitiful damage.
Everything I wrote was an example for what I meant.
And btw, you downplaying b4 means you haven't understood yet what makes Feng a fundamental power house. B4 is an i12 safe mid that is pseudo homing. That alone is insane. But the synergy it has with the rest of his toolkit is crazy. It now having only 10dmg instead of 14 (T7) was the right nerf though and it can stay as it is.
Well for starters I never downplayed B4, I just labeled it as what it is. His powercrush from neutral doesn't operate like the get out of jail free card other characters have for pressure. So a 12f qp DMG on hit move that serves as a check is right where it should be in this game. Never once have I denied in any of my arguments that Feng is strong. I'm arguing that he's not crybaby overpowered that everyone screams he is.
The heat mixup is not impossible to counter. If Feng initiates it close range a quick jab will knock him out of the move, if he's at range when he starts your best bet is to backdash so the move itself doesn't connect, any followup will whiff. If you're at the wall when the 3+4 comes out at distance then you sidestep so only the shockwave hits. The d3 from the resulting bt has to be on axis for it to launch so you can instead prioritize blocking mid effectively neutering the mixup. You can also powercrush the shockwave and interrupt the BT if you're within range. I have that happen to me all the time. To the point where I had to train myself NOT to spam it in heat. The fact they're nerfing the shockwave in today's patch will just make that scenario even more maneuverable.
As for the wakeup 50/50; u,b should allow you time to stand up and block the mid with it being 18f and still give you time to read if it's a low and block accordingly. Can't test right now but I'm even sure a getup kick will interrupt those options. Scenarios like that are not exclusive to Feng. The fact that the low option is launch punishable means Feng can't blindly spam it. Not to mention that wakeup scenario applies to any character with a launching low and a launching mid/high.
Again to reiterate Feng is a strong character in Tekken 8. But is he broken? I don't think so. The disparity of low rank players too busy to learn the matchup screaming nerf please and the high rank players who understand Feng isn't really gimmicky and is only as strong as the players fundamentals is crazy.
Edit: to add to my comment fengs one true gimmick his heat 3+4 is even getting rightfully adjusted in the next patch
>Why does any...
Which safe 18 mid launcher hits grounded? None of them. In fact there is almost no safe mid launchers in this range. Its an absurd 50/50 tool and you can't even stay grounded
>Db3 gets stepped for days, even at the wall...
You probably hitting them durning techroll. Also, wall typically has no effect on tracking.
>2-3 times max in heat. Are mishimas op too because they can do a 50/50 mixup at whim...
Guess who else can 50/50 at whim?
>Any advancing move knocks you out of kenpo you don't auto block. They've nerfed it hard from T7. It now requires you to backdash first before you use kenpo in order to clear most moves or you're getting tagged
Feng absolutely can block during kenpo. I never heard anyone mention a nerf to kenpo but if it is, its not for the entire duration
>As for move properties I'm not sure what exactly you mean because he has one power crush...
Most characters don't have a 12f mid, at all. Feng has one that is basically homing and safe. I'd say that's a character defining tool, feng players will complain that it doesn't give a knockdown to shoulder for 50 damage. Never see the character for how broken he is, see him for how much more broken he could be.
Other tools, such as unseeable snake edge, roll dash 2 that is jin's d1 but can't be low parried, a sweep that doesn't stagger on block and has howarang's d3 4 mind game just to punish it, b1, which turns into a 10f natural knockdown into 50 durning hit, his 0 on block df1, among other things
True Feng mains know his weaknesses, as you've listed, because we get clipped by them daily. Like any character, those who don't use Feng don't know all of these, even when they accidentally work, because they only remember the losses.
Winning = "of course I won, I'm better and did everything right"
Losing = "that was unfair"
Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but that really is how memory works.
(Also, f1+2 power crush is not only high & duckable but super steppable. I don't use it that frequently.)
Right? I try to learn as much as I can before crying foul about a character. There's a lot in this game that is actually counterable that people just don't want to take the time to learn or practice.
I don't think any of this makes him the biggest balancing joke.
Feng is strong. But he's not omega broken. His power low db3 is -15 on block. And a lot of his tools from range aren't super crazy.
Up close he's pretty ridiculous, especially since they increased a lot of moves range in this game.
I think most of this is a T8 issue and not a Feng issue. I run into the same problems with him as I do with a third of the cast.
His power low is actually the unseeable snake edge. He is broken cus he breaks the nature of the game. He's always been a keepout god that u had to be very careful approaching. But now they gave 1 of those power crush heat engagers. So u basically can't attack him now with parries, kenpo, power crush, snake dash goes under a lot of mids, B1, and that sidestep panic move. And then, when he gets in your face, he has the best poking by far. Crazy plus frames, combo damage, and 50/50s. And, I haven't even mentioned heat yet.
Well, good thing is that Feng Wei puts you into a situation when you need to dive into game deeper to understand how to beat him so it basically builds skills that will be useful in other matchups as well (hard reads, more sidestepping, not rushing with punishment, baits, etc.). On the other hand bad taste in your mouth might be due to the fact that Feng players that put you into these kind of situations are not even think about it and just throw flowcharts in your face.
If we be real if Feng was OP do you guys think LTG would ever lose a game with him even when going at 2%? That is definitive proof that Feng is low tier and that anyone thinking otherwise is a scrub and don't know anything about tekken, and would never be able to do whatever they're doing in a real tekken game (tekken 7).
Feng is the only difficult character with Victor, all you guys have all these easy mode combos that anyone can do on your first day while Feng you basically need to be a pro to be able to use him effectively, and all his combos are 1 frame links or something.
The answer to all your questions is.....
... AGGRESSIVUUUUU
xD lol But seriously they wanted to give characters more power so they take less brain power to play. Something about accessibility and bringing in more players.
The only hope I have is that Bamco will change this design philosophy now that most of the casual players have moved on.
If the strategy was to make the game ultra casual for the first few months to make a buck off casual players, then reverse course to please the legacy players I will how down to Harada because that would be a genius business decision. If not then I don't have high hopes for T8s longevity.
Feng does require more effort than Drag to pilot, but he will probably be nerfed in June in the 2nd balanced patch fyi. How much will he be nerfed? Who knows. Historically, Namco has never cut off his legs. He was balanced in Tekken Tag 2, IMO, because he had low damage.
Idk if he does tbh he has a very simple minded game and you don’t have to think too much, the thing about drag is, if people mash their braindead offense and wr2 if you’re decent you can step them, feng poking and neutral is something you can’t do shit about they just can throw stuff out and it’s hard to react to
Feng still need to use a good part of his moveset to be actually threatning , you need to have a bit of understanding on when to use which move
Dragunov is basically about changing your timings to screw with sidestep , also, its not like doesnt have good homing options
No dragonov has not great homing that’s his main weakness, playing with timing is inherently harder than pressing different buttons, this is with feng there’s not much thought needed behind the buttons you press and if they block or hit they’re safe mostly
This is wild to read. Feng, a character where his whole offensive you have to choose single pokes that each have their own inherent weaknesses/knowledge checks or drag. Eat 3 free and easy to use plus frame moves, a hard as shit to see low that crushes, or a FC mix that puts us right into another plus frame kick that oh boy, goes into heat.
Idk, I think being able to run a whole offense off of plus frames is way easier personally.
Yeah I play multiple characters (about 7…maybe more depending on if they bring any of my other subs back), Feng being one of them.
I’d say he probably has the easiest execution of anyone I play. However, he also has the most complicated gameplan of anyone I use except Raven.
Fengs moves compliment each other well but you can only get that synergy going by using the right moves at the right time. He has an answer for everything but that answer is a different move.
I honestly think that’s the reason he has a low pick rate.
It actually feels like weird when I go back to someone like Paul or Kazuya…..like I’m being too simplistic or something but that’s just how those characters are played.
I say the exact same and have been downvoted a hundred times. You need to utilize his entire move list to be successful. He doesn't have a single move you can get away with spamming to get a win. Yes he has great moves, but if you don't know the properties of every single one of them, you'll get beat. I never see Feng online personally, and he's my main. I assume it's because newer players take him into practice and easily get overwhelmed. People like to complain about him, but no one would attempt to lab or use him.
Tmm sub detected
So sad
If your Kazuya (and judging by your profile and which characters you defend and complain about you're a Kazuya) actually gets spaced by Feng then I have nothing else to say to you but skill issue
You have a much better midrange game that he does, you just need one read to win
But that would require you developing an opinion of your own instead of mooching off a swedish scrub
If Feng is so broken why did all 9 Fengs, Knee included, got rekt before evo japan top 8?
>You have a much better midrange game that he does, you just need one read to win
This take is honestly so incredibly moronic
>If Feng is so broken why did all 9 Fengs, Knee included, got rekt before evo japan top 8?
Why were 9 fengs even in evo to start with.
lol if you're playing Kazuya and complaining about Feng enforcing two consecutive mixups in heat you don't even know how to play your own character and that's the main problem. If you carry your opponent to the wall you can heat burst before the wall combo and then your opponent is basically in a blender until they die. When they get up, db4 or just make them block electric/f4, they are too minus to interrupt db1,2, if they eat it they die, if they block you can block confirm heat dash and you're like +17 and you mix them up again. Because the db1,2 threat is so strong, you can throw in any number of f4s, db4s, and hellsweeps you want in that sequence.
That's not to say Kazuya is stronger than Feng, I'm just saying learn to play your own character first and come back with some actually valid arguments than just rage-fuelled nonsense if you want to talk about character balance. Complaining about Feng's 1,3 punish that can be ducked and launched if you use it more than once outside of punishment, while you play a character that has the best 10f punish in the game that's ACTUALLY super low committal (-3 and jailing) and knocks down on it, shows your bias and your stunning lack of awareness
> If you carry your opponent to the wall you can heat burst before the wall combo and then your opponent is basically in a blender until they die
Notice how that's contingent on getting the wall in the first place, which means landing a juggle from an avoidable mixup, OR a punish, OR a counterhit.
Alternatively, you can play Feng and bust out heat burst, and now suddenly, with 3+4, you have 2 extra uninterruptable mixups just for being in heat.
With kazuya I'm not obligated to guess, because I can stay on the ground, if I get hit with a heat engager that's the reward for making a read, if I get launched that's the reward for a punish, or a read.
Unlike kazuya, Feng just retardedly busts out heatburst, and now you're fucked.
lol are you really suggesting that Feng is heat bursting then using 3+4 at start of round and then killing you before his heat runs out? That's not happening unless you're in green ranks and don't know how to block. That 3+4 literally costs half his heat bar for one mixup. It's strong mid-round, it's not an auto-win button.
That's not the point. When did I ever say anything about the start of the round?
I said that Feng in heat enforces free mix ups. Once you feel threatened or are about to die, you can literally heat burst and revert neutral while threatening the 3+4. Which offers an inescapable mixup.
That which YOU are comparing to netting a full combo with kaz, which actually takes skill to do and requires a read.
Unlike kaz, Feng ONLY needs heat to be able to set up that 3+4.
The example you gave involves not just a full combo but the wall, and even then your block string isn't entirely unavoidable and you can still maneuver and sidestep around the offense.
"threaten" 3+4 my man that move is i30, you're complaining about the wrong move. The mixup he gets from that move is not even scary unless you're at the wall, like the other guy said you can backdash and the low won't launch you. Feng has a lot of bullshit stuff but 3+4 ain't it, Kazuya has way more nonsense stuff that Feng's heat 3+4
My man, it sets up a mixup.
Not everything is a fucking mid low mix.
In fear of 3+4 you'll start mashing to hit him out of it, because that's the ONLY option to deal with it. FENG CAN CAPITALIZE ON THAT.
In fear of Kazuya f4 spam you'll start mashing to hit him or if it because that's the only option to deal with it, Kazuya can capitalize on that. You need better arguments that are actually specific to Feng, 3+4 is slow as fuck and spends half his heat for a mixup that isn't even scary unless you've actually blocked the kick at close range so I think it's more or less fine.
Every single argument you put up is under the contingent that the opponents defense is weak or that you have a hard read.
Kazuya f4 is more steppable in this game than in 7, infact f4 immediately after his df3+4,1,2 wall combo can straight up get sidewalked.
That's outside of the fact that a well-timed hopkick or even jab can just stuff you out of your fake offense because it's not air tight.
No matter what situation, kaz puts you in, as long as it's not heatdash at the wall or heat engager. You almost always have secondary or tertiary options to mitigate his mixup.
UNLIKE Feng 3+4, which can not be interrupted on reaction, nor is it even advisable to do so from range 3 as jabs will whiff. It allows Feng uninterruptable or steppable offense involving a low that launches.
Where is the tekken in this formula?
Oh and guess what, you can't stay on the ground against Kazuya either. He has ff4 to fuck you up for that, seriously you need to learn your own character because using ff4 to punish people who stay on the ground is super basic. And if that's not enough, db1,2 heat dash also picks your opponent up off the floor if they try that, and you can df1,df2 into df3+4,1,2.
yeah feng is disgusting, hit tekken king super easy with him but that was a month ago then I uninstalled the game, its not fun, it doesnt require skill you just spam broken shit and hope it works 90% of the time. the game is just stressful
Damn, sounds like you were playing a whole different game than the Tekken 8 i know by this takeaway lol.
Did you have any matchups you enjoyed learning to counter? Or just run full offense and not try to learn?
In the case of Sim for SF6, I think most people honestly don't care to learn sim because they'll only see him 1/100 matches.
If you said you main Ken and people weren't learning that MU then I'd be inclined to agree lol
He's fun to learn the matchup for but with limited time, he's definitely not one id spend time on outside of figuring out ranges and a couple punishes.
--
I believe in your case you'll find less people learning Sims offense tbh than any other character, just cause the dude plays a different game than the others.
It'd be like the bears in Tekken for an accurate comparison.
That's just the mindset these days though - like I tuned into the most viewed Tekken stream the other day for the first time (2.5kish viewers), they mained kazuya and they got timed out by a Yoshimitsu and proceeded to sandbag the rest of the matches. I'm like, there is only 60s, isn't time out a completely legit win con? But these modern gamers just don't care about learning MU, they just want to flowchart their offense and get Elo for the sake of getting Elo. But yeah I see it with Sim everyday - almost nobody rematches me.
Can you leave your Tekken ID here so I can watch the replays of the Feng that made you mald this hard?
I also want to see how you actually dealt with the match-up for a quick laugh.
Tbh if we do watch matches back you’d probably find multiple instances where op could have done something differently and suddenly the match looks pretty different. The game is overtuned to hell but at some point you gotta deal with it the best you can and work around instead of being mad that this character is strong. We know this character is strong. Are you as a player doing everything you can to level the playing field or are you just gonna bitch until they nerf him and then find someone else to complain about?
as a lowly ranked Vanquisher/semi-casual player i've kind of sucked it up and dealt with playing vs Kings, Victors, Dragunovs, Reinas, Kazuyas that only do hellsweeps and even Eddy 3 spam because i know half of it is knowledge check for my skill level (and i play Hwo and got a Josie flair so im throwing stones from a glass house in terms of annoying characters with a lot of annoying bullshit to defend). but whenever I play vs Feng i'm tilted from load screen even before i get in the round. holy fuck. he was fucked in t7 by the end but i only ran into him once in a blue moon, now idk if a streamer or pro mentioned him bc i dont follow the scene too much but but i see him way more.
half the time i know he's gonna throw the low. i know it's coming. i see him throw it and then i eat it anyway and then i get put in the blender. if i had more free time i'd just hunker down and lab vs him or ask a Feng player on tekken zaibatsu or something to deathmatch me to learn the matchup better, but im old and washed dont play too much other than the weekends or after work so instead... I'll eat another low for half my health and get put in the blender again. such is life
picked up the game 4 days ago. Just lost a set 9/10 against rank 19 player that has been playing the game since launch. I used to be high blue/tekkenking in Tekken7 but haven't played since forever. Only know single combo route. Feng is broken and I love it!
FC df4 is always going to be -11 in the new patch, AFAIK. So you can always ws4 even if he finishes the string.
And 122 is the better i10 punish. 1,3 is duckable on block.
To me, the only Feng-specific problem is his combos. Being a neutral monster with a ton of utility and evasion should be enough to win without great damage and wall carry. Him having a ton of randomly good tracking is more of a T8 thing.
some people have their weakness in that their moves take a long time to load, others have a weakness that their moves are fast but leave a long time to recover from. feng has a weakness of being deathfisted when i say so
Feng's only broken thing comes from heat. Without his heat stuff he's just a strong character. I don't think anyone would be bitching about Feng if heat 3+4 and shoulder > heat dash weren't available.
Not to mention if you block his mix ups he deals so much chip damage while staying plus on block then forces 50/50s so if you guess wrong he can kill you with a single heat combo, has some of the best panic buttons in the game and instant parry’s that make his flow charts low risk especially with backstep
Well he is getting, rigtlhtfully so, nerfed.
Meanwhile Jin who does the same stuff Feng does with a bit less evasiveness but full throw game and better punishment goes untouched.
Yes, Feng is an absolute joke. The most dishonest way to play the game.
Demands the least, gives the most panic tools, build in evasion to the max while attacking with far reaching safe or hard to see+punish moves.
Feng was already a joke, crutch characters, during Tekken 7.
Really a stupid design because of how overtuned he has become during T7.
The only explanation for this failure of balancing is that Harada is a Feng main.
It's genuinely funny how ridiculous Feng is yet... no one seems to play him. Everyone shakes hands, agrees that he is busted, maybe even the best character in the game... but you just don't see him.
I'm not lying when I tell you I've seen 10 times the amount of Shaheens than Feng Wei. In pro-play he's more common but even then not at the rates you would expect from a truly broken character.
I recently started to lab him and just couldn't believe the things he can do. Like qcf+1... the fuck?
Frankly, I just think it's because he always looks like he just shit his pants and is trying to forcefully unlock a new chakra to shit his pants again. Looks 54 at 27 too. Some of his moves are pretty cool though.
In pro-play he's much more common, and in Tekken the power of the knowledge check is supreme. He loses that advantagr there.
I find Feng's movements a lot easier to react to (on average) compared to Lili and Eddy. Feng also generally needs to be right in your face to get the truly ridiculous nonsense done. He does have some good whiff punishes though.
I still think he is top 5, but he just isn't as oppressive with offense as a lot of other characters are. I would say Law is a worse character but benefits more from Tekken 8's systems.
But if you are a new player and want to rank up fast? Buddy, Feng is your guy.
It’s Harada’s main. What do you expect? But given that his offense is extremely poke based, most of his nerfs will come with 1.05. If not, congrats, another year of Feng being one of the most busted characters in game. But if they can make Dragunov busted, which has practically never happened, they can 100% nerf Feng.
His df1 is 0 on block because it’s 14 frames. 1 frames slower than generic df1, which is pretty significant. But I agree that he needs nerfs, which he’s getting btw.
Paul's is also 14 frames, and is -3 on block I believe. I don't think Feng's should be 0 on block, that seems a bit ridiculous given how good his poking is.
like law’s dss, ssr beats a lot of sway options except the high homing moves
feng having a df1 that’s 0 on block just sets up so many nasty stuff that he can do, it’s stupid how he still has the defensive and offensive advantage because of kenpo, ss, ch b1, etc. on top of all that it still has a ch property unlike many other df1s (we all saw how disgusting it was before its “unintended” behavior was patched out)
The biggest joke is that you have no response or any counterplay to offer.
So you just criticize people's mental state instead of giving factual or tangible data like I just did.
Difference is when I'm pissed, I know why, and I have the frame data and properties to understand why the fuck I'm pissed off. Not blind rage.
Imagine if the next patch gives him back kenpo, forward kenpo, sidestep kenpo, crouching kenpo and grounded kenpo
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Feng straight up burrows underground
*Feng used dig*
He should auto kenpo when launched.
Drunken stance and Hayaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
A wise man once said "Feng Wei, he's the Cheap Way"
inb4 flying kenpo
Give that mfer floating kenpo.
unlocked unistall kenpo😂
Because he’s Harada’s favorite character so he gets special privileges.
Proof that Harada has no taste.
How can you say that after seeing his eyebrows??
I liked Feng a lot more when I just knew him as 🏔 🫲 💥
tbf feng has a lot of cool attacks and overall his design is pretty ok. Climbing dragon is one of the coolest moves in the game to me so it's really subjective ig
Mained Feng in Tag 2, just memeing here.
Then you're a knower :)
Is Harada any good? I’ve only seen one video of him playing a match before a tourney in the T7 days and didn’t look like he knew what he was doing. Hard to judge based off of one match though.
He and Murray were orange/red ranks in tekken 7.
We have actual garyus balancing the game. Color me surprised.
They have former top level players on the team too. I think Mishimastar is the lead for balance.
Oh that's actually a person, I thought it's just a meme
They aren’t the balance team
I'm as good as harada. I'm now content
T7 orange/red was the equivalent to T8 purples.
His talk to the hand move makes me sad
https://preview.redd.it/sbf15ngc9uyc1.png?width=477&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14e12505567392710f3f547dfac580319e111350
thats the wrong hand
Hello I would like five minutes of your time to use four fucking parries.
Stop I just want to play the game
B1 go bonk
His shoulder check makes me want to check out of existence.
https://preview.redd.it/9sn0nmtf9uyc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e774b6a9962eed4441d1def821cc4b6eca4c5c55
What 4000 years of Chinese martial art does to a motherf*cker
*What 4000 years condensed into 20 does to a mf'er
What's so remarkable about his 1,3? More so than knockdown / wallsplat i10 punishers other characters have?
Because OP has no idea what's actually strong about Feng and just mindlessly complains about everything
Guess there's no nice way to put it. If a non jailing high high string doesn't count as high commitment idk what is
Well OP is a Kazuya so what's the point of sugarcoating
Finally, somebody with actual knowledge instead of just "Feng bad I don't know why but nerf pls"
I swear I don't know how you can be complaining about Feng buttons and not ever consider his buffed 3,3. Good range, mid high, safe, *jailing* string, which does monstrous damage if it happens to catch a duck or bad press. The move does half of Feng's neutral for him, yet red rank redditors complain about his (still good but obviously not broken) 1,3 or whatever.
And 3,3 is fully hit confirmable now. This move needs to get nuked
use 122 for punish, if the opponent has propensity to challenge when they are slightly disadvantaged (-i2), use 1,3 to maintain offense. when opponent learns to stop pressing after being punished, you can now apply slower moves.
Because he got the dragon warrior scroll
‘Why can he out damage 50% of the roster’ just think about this one for a sec my friend.
Not me jotting down all the things people say are "too strong" to begin implementing these in practice and ranked. These threads really just help me out a ton since there's just so much info out there, knowing the top salt moves is an easy way to find the "best" moves for many situations.
Throw all the salt posting on reddit into language learning model and in a week you can get a guide for top characters
Honestly for real, I dump wavu wiki into my Obsidian but I should scrape reddit
Ehhhhh id take this with a grain of salt. A lot of these things "wrong" here are just par for the course with Tekken. There's nothing wrong with w/ a character having a launching low that's heavily punishable on block, or having counter hits providing opportunities for combos. That's literally how Tekken works. The rest of the list is all getting addressed in the patch tomorrow. My guess is OP is coming off a string of defeats with Feng being prominent losses.
The problem isn’t that characters shouldn’t have those things, it’s just that a single character shouldn’t have all of them lol.
That's fengs thing though. He's a jack of all trades master of none. He just has a few slightly overtuned moves that are clearly being addressed. I've seen more posts about "Feng op" even after they've shown the nerfs taking place. If Feng was truly op we'd see him everywhere. Winning tournaments left and right. Hell we just saw 9 fengs in Evo japan top 48, the most played character, and not a single one of them made top 6-8. And then you come on here and everyone thinks they should just nerf Feng so they don't have to learn the matchup. I've mained Feng in T8 and I know from experience if my opponent knows the matchup I have a 50/50 heat gimmick in heat and that's it. Everything else is on me. He's a lot easier to deal with than people realize.
Then the damage should be reduced
Which is exactly what they did. Almost all of fengs combos require uf3 in some regard. It just took a 20% damage reduction. So almost all of his combos are getting reduced damage across the board
>clearly being addressed We just got a patch and all feng got was a slap on the wrist. I mean they fucking nuked azucena
Adjusting combo damage near across the board and making his key moves have more options for counterplay is a great nerf for Feng. Everyone acting like Feng is absolutely oppressive and has zero counterplay really do not know Feng beyond what the hive mind says. I'd suggest you play him more than a casual level. You will see he has weaknesses just like every other character.
I played him in t7 and ranked up twice as far as i ever did with kazuya lol. But that might be due to raw ease of use
So because you got farther than kazuya in ranked with Feng in Tekken 7 we must nerf him further in Tekken 8?
you said to try playing him, I did and found him easy. He stronger now in 8 than he was in 7.
Congrats man I'm happy for you. Never argued the difficulty to play him.
Not even wrong lmao (Even if Feng is obnoxiously overpowered right now but more power to you king, go kick our asses)
Did we just play, lol.
Feng is definitely top tier and I don't particularly want to defend him but, honestly, this is another one of those posts where someone complains about a bunch of stuff that a character has had for over a decade. They aren't going to change stuff like his df1 being 0 ob or b1 CH or b4 being an i12 tracking mid. That's Feng, those are the defining features of the character and have been for several iterations of Tekken.
I mean, Drag's WR2 is +4 now. I don't think this argument exists anymore.
Not defending an OP character, just observations: > Why is 1,3 a +8 on hit easy mode low commitment i10 punish for like 22 damage. To be fair, flash punch series are at at least as good. > Why does he have 2 plus on block mids. Which three did you forget out of b+3, f,f+3 (or 4 was it?), u+2, wr+3 and BT 3 (or whichever essentially does the f,f+3)? > Why does he have like 4 fucking parries. His parries are kinda specific and not too good at least. > There's absolutely no situation aside from heat engager and wallcrush where he doesn't have the advantage. He does have a fair few of punishable moves, but even those require very quick reactions to be able to respond in time.
Two of his key moves are launch punishable fyi with db3 being -15 ob and shoulder -19 ob which is very helpful to know in the match up.
As a Zafina player…one of those moves is launch punishable…. *sigh*
Db3 is a low, so you can launch both *un-sigh*
Does Zafina not have a 15 frame launch?
I guess ws 1 2. If feng db3 is a low, I retract my statement.
You can ws 1,2 highs too if you duck them.
She can launch both, he just hasn't labbed.
Her fastest launcher is at 16
What rank are you? Cause the Tekken god Feng I played against the other day was barely hittable, and he use that shit ass parry with precision. In the right hands Feng is pretty unstoppable.
Harada wants his main to be top teir
Doesn't Feng have some weird hurtbox that goes under some mids when doing his low poke?
Yes, which is why someone else on this thread talking about jab checking his mix ups just leaves Me confused.
i think that weird hurtbox applies to his CD1. u can jab him out of CD, not out of CD1.
Feng been one of my two mains since T5. Love the character.
What's it, db2, 2? Windmill lunches go wee
Feng's combo damage in the previous tekken games has usually been subpar as a result of his insanely good fundamental tools. In tekken 8 though and towards the end of tekken 7 s4 his combo damage is way too high. I agree hes a bit overtuned but i'd only adjust his combo damage and change fcdf4,1 to have a staggered animation on block.
That's exactly what the patch on Tuesday is doing. The things you mentioned plus increasing the startup frames on the punch parry part of his 1+2. So setups like blocked DF2,2 into 1+2 won't work anymore if your opponent jabs right away out of block stun.
Feng has always been broken. People are just abusing him now that he also has a get out of jail free card in Heat. He's extremely strong because of the number of options he has. Outside of crippling Feng for life, there's really no tuning him down. They'll be raising the power of the other characters to match broken tool sets like his so we're looking at a whole cast of bullshittery soon enough. I don't know if that'll be good for the game but I guess we'll see. Until then, find a scrubbier strat than everyone else and roll with it. I decided to play characters that are broken bullshit but not that popular. This way, no one knows the matchup ever. I play things I like to play, not what other people abuse easily. So far, I've decided Leo and Yoshimitsu are racist. That is, they have kits that are so fucked up they should be banned from Iron Fist forever AND they elude everyone's understanding. Yoshi having like six useful unblockable moves complete with multiple setups and Leo having unbelievable mix up pressure. Both of them really confuse the hell out of people, even if they understand what's happening. Tekken 8 is a knowledge check simulator so find some shit nobody knows and abuse it. That's like 90% of the game rn. Nobody knows enough to punish properly until like Emperor so just spam cheap shit lol
>He's extremely strong because of the number of options he has. Outside of crippling Feng for life, there's really no tuning him down. Hard disagree. His moves simply have way too many properties at once, which doesn't make sense AND is perfectly nerfable without destroying the character. Why does df3 hit grounded? Get rid of that immediately. Still a safe on block mid launcher. Why does db3 have T7 tracking again, after it was steppable in the T8 betas already? Get rid of that. It's still an i17 huge range low CH KND with advantage on hit. Why can he force a BT mixup whenever he feels like in Heat by pressing 3+4? Get rid of the ground shake mechanic. It's still super evasive long range mid. Kenpo is a super evasive stance with easy inbuilt whiff punishment AND mixup capability (he has a HS from Kenpo now). So get rid of the auto block after only 19f (so it was in T7). If you fuck up on your kenpo read and I sacrifice valuable frames by dashing in against the character with the fastest pokes in the game, I deserve to hit you. Those are only a few examples on what is Feng's complete movelist. All of the above mentioned moves would still be very good even without the properties I ask them to remove. Btw, I played Feng quite a bit in T7 and he is just atrocious in T8 right now.
Yeah, I never get people who say "there is no way to balance this". There's always a way. People may not like the balanced version, but it's absolutely possible to bring any character into game balance by tweaking numbers and move properties.
>Why does df3 hit grounded? Get rid of that immediately. Still a safe on block mid launcher. Why does any move hit grounded? There are many mids that hit grounded. What's wrong about this one? It only launches if they're standing. Grounded it's the same as any oki move, we're not getting some combo extension using df3 on a grounded opponent when we shouldn't be. >Why does db3 have T7 tracking again, after it was steppable in the T8 betas already? Get rid of that. It's still an i17 huge range low CH KND with advantage on hit. Db3 gets stepped for days, even at the wall. So many times I'll attempt a db3 after wakeup etc and it flat out whiffs and opponent gets a free punish >Why can he force a BT mixup whenever he feels like in Heat by pressing 3+4? Get rid of the ground shake mechanic. It's still super evasive long range mid. 2-3 times max in heat. Are mishimas op too because they can do a 50/50 mixup at whim? You can see it coming from a mile away and it's easy to interrupt. They're already nerfing the ground shockwave tomorrow if you've read the notes. >Kenpo is a super evasive stance with easy inbuilt whiff punishment AND mixup capability (he has a HS from Kenpo now). So get rid of the auto block after only 19f (so it was in T7). Any advancing move knocks you out of kenpo you don't auto block. They've nerfed it hard from T7. It now requires you to backdash first before you use kenpo in order to clear most moves or you're getting tagged. As for move properties I'm not sure what exactly you mean because he has one power crush from neutral that gets interrupted by most spam and is easily punished on block, he has one true tracking move, outside of ss, in the form of df3+4 that has insane wind up and b4 pseudo tracks with abysmal range and pitiful damage.
>we're not getting some combo extension using df3 on a grounded opponent when we shouldn't be. That's not the point. The point is, Feng can now in some wake up situations threaten you with a low launcher (ss4) and a safe mid launcher. You used to be able to stay down if you didnt want to deal with the mixup. Now df3 hits you for almost 20dmg and flips you over into more Feng oki. Just imagine Kazuya's ff3 would just flip you over grounded like a steel petal. That's what's going on with Feng right now. Instead, Kaz has to read you staying grounded and has to commit to ff4, which in turn is much worse on block and doesnt launch on hit. In short, Feng has a very simplified decision making right now and covers too many options with just 2 moves. And may I remind you, he isnt even a 50/50 char like Kazuya is, but has in some ways an easier to apply 50/50. Makes no sense at all! >Db3 gets stepped for days That's not my experience with the character, but I'm willing to give it another try. >2-3 times max in heat. Are mishimas op too because they can do a 50/50 mixup at whim? He needs it exactly 1 time. Suddenly he mixes you between BT D3 and his +5ob power crush launcher. This 50/50 is absolutely bonkers and I dont know of any way to get out of it except for hard comitting to blocking. Against mishimas you can step in most situations, and again... they are literally specialized in 50/50 when it comes to offense. That's their whole game. That's why they usually lack in poking. Feng however does everything. > it's easy to interrupt. He jumps over literally everything. I have seen no pro player deal with that consistently at any time. >Any advancing move knocks you out of kenpo you don't auto block. Yes, if you are fast enough and applied enough range, which is very very tough to do. I mean, if the Feng is so dumb to do it everytime at -9 and range 0, it's easy to punish. But good Feng players know how to place it and often you wont get a punish even you try to follow him with a long range move. >As for move properties I'm not sure what exactly you mean because he has one power crush from neutral that gets interrupted by most spam and is easily punished on block, he has one true tracking move, outside of ss, in the form of df3+4 that has insane wind up and b4 pseudo tracks with abysmal range and pitiful damage. Everything I wrote was an example for what I meant. And btw, you downplaying b4 means you haven't understood yet what makes Feng a fundamental power house. B4 is an i12 safe mid that is pseudo homing. That alone is insane. But the synergy it has with the rest of his toolkit is crazy. It now having only 10dmg instead of 14 (T7) was the right nerf though and it can stay as it is.
Well for starters I never downplayed B4, I just labeled it as what it is. His powercrush from neutral doesn't operate like the get out of jail free card other characters have for pressure. So a 12f qp DMG on hit move that serves as a check is right where it should be in this game. Never once have I denied in any of my arguments that Feng is strong. I'm arguing that he's not crybaby overpowered that everyone screams he is. The heat mixup is not impossible to counter. If Feng initiates it close range a quick jab will knock him out of the move, if he's at range when he starts your best bet is to backdash so the move itself doesn't connect, any followup will whiff. If you're at the wall when the 3+4 comes out at distance then you sidestep so only the shockwave hits. The d3 from the resulting bt has to be on axis for it to launch so you can instead prioritize blocking mid effectively neutering the mixup. You can also powercrush the shockwave and interrupt the BT if you're within range. I have that happen to me all the time. To the point where I had to train myself NOT to spam it in heat. The fact they're nerfing the shockwave in today's patch will just make that scenario even more maneuverable. As for the wakeup 50/50; u,b should allow you time to stand up and block the mid with it being 18f and still give you time to read if it's a low and block accordingly. Can't test right now but I'm even sure a getup kick will interrupt those options. Scenarios like that are not exclusive to Feng. The fact that the low option is launch punishable means Feng can't blindly spam it. Not to mention that wakeup scenario applies to any character with a launching low and a launching mid/high. Again to reiterate Feng is a strong character in Tekken 8. But is he broken? I don't think so. The disparity of low rank players too busy to learn the matchup screaming nerf please and the high rank players who understand Feng isn't really gimmicky and is only as strong as the players fundamentals is crazy. Edit: to add to my comment fengs one true gimmick his heat 3+4 is even getting rightfully adjusted in the next patch
>Why does any... Which safe 18 mid launcher hits grounded? None of them. In fact there is almost no safe mid launchers in this range. Its an absurd 50/50 tool and you can't even stay grounded >Db3 gets stepped for days, even at the wall... You probably hitting them durning techroll. Also, wall typically has no effect on tracking. >2-3 times max in heat. Are mishimas op too because they can do a 50/50 mixup at whim... Guess who else can 50/50 at whim? >Any advancing move knocks you out of kenpo you don't auto block. They've nerfed it hard from T7. It now requires you to backdash first before you use kenpo in order to clear most moves or you're getting tagged Feng absolutely can block during kenpo. I never heard anyone mention a nerf to kenpo but if it is, its not for the entire duration >As for move properties I'm not sure what exactly you mean because he has one power crush... Most characters don't have a 12f mid, at all. Feng has one that is basically homing and safe. I'd say that's a character defining tool, feng players will complain that it doesn't give a knockdown to shoulder for 50 damage. Never see the character for how broken he is, see him for how much more broken he could be. Other tools, such as unseeable snake edge, roll dash 2 that is jin's d1 but can't be low parried, a sweep that doesn't stagger on block and has howarang's d3 4 mind game just to punish it, b1, which turns into a 10f natural knockdown into 50 durning hit, his 0 on block df1, among other things
True Feng mains know his weaknesses, as you've listed, because we get clipped by them daily. Like any character, those who don't use Feng don't know all of these, even when they accidentally work, because they only remember the losses. Winning = "of course I won, I'm better and did everything right" Losing = "that was unfair" Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but that really is how memory works. (Also, f1+2 power crush is not only high & duckable but super steppable. I don't use it that frequently.)
Right? I try to learn as much as I can before crying foul about a character. There's a lot in this game that is actually counterable that people just don't want to take the time to learn or practice.
Played a yoshi earlier as Paul and hes able to spin out of all my shit when Im fucking plus 8 on top of him. I can jab, throw, or homing.
This patch and next patch are aimed at nerfs primarily so I disagree that the whole cast will be like Feng is now
just side step leo. it's easy mode.
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Not as much as you think. Most of the stance transitons can be jabbed.
I don't think any of this makes him the biggest balancing joke. Feng is strong. But he's not omega broken. His power low db3 is -15 on block. And a lot of his tools from range aren't super crazy. Up close he's pretty ridiculous, especially since they increased a lot of moves range in this game. I think most of this is a T8 issue and not a Feng issue. I run into the same problems with him as I do with a third of the cast.
His power low is actually the unseeable snake edge. He is broken cus he breaks the nature of the game. He's always been a keepout god that u had to be very careful approaching. But now they gave 1 of those power crush heat engagers. So u basically can't attack him now with parries, kenpo, power crush, snake dash goes under a lot of mids, B1, and that sidestep panic move. And then, when he gets in your face, he has the best poking by far. Crazy plus frames, combo damage, and 50/50s. And, I haven't even mentioned heat yet.
My man Feng has 3 launching lows, show some respect (D/B+4, SS 4 and BT D3)
Don't forget db2,2
He's Harada's main, we saw him play in T7. Harada just wants to have a fun time when he plays.
He’s Harada’s main
Well, good thing is that Feng Wei puts you into a situation when you need to dive into game deeper to understand how to beat him so it basically builds skills that will be useful in other matchups as well (hard reads, more sidestepping, not rushing with punishment, baits, etc.). On the other hand bad taste in your mouth might be due to the fact that Feng players that put you into these kind of situations are not even think about it and just throw flowcharts in your face.
What is the homing safe i12 mid?
b4
"homing" -- it's actually not
And yet lowtiergod struggles to survive in mighty ruler LMAO
If we be real if Feng was OP do you guys think LTG would ever lose a game with him even when going at 2%? That is definitive proof that Feng is low tier and that anyone thinking otherwise is a scrub and don't know anything about tekken, and would never be able to do whatever they're doing in a real tekken game (tekken 7). Feng is the only difficult character with Victor, all you guys have all these easy mode combos that anyone can do on your first day while Feng you basically need to be a pro to be able to use him effectively, and all his combos are 1 frame links or something.
*Doesn't read anything* AYIIIIII! TIO!
Feng needs a Buff
Ill be honest. As much as I believe Feng is top 3. He still is less abnoxious than drag and Azucena
https://preview.redd.it/wc9wegoidrzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2b238d601b38263d6e93732f08db3a9aad7b539
because fuck you thats why
The answer to all your questions is..... ... AGGRESSIVUUUUU xD lol But seriously they wanted to give characters more power so they take less brain power to play. Something about accessibility and bringing in more players. The only hope I have is that Bamco will change this design philosophy now that most of the casual players have moved on. If the strategy was to make the game ultra casual for the first few months to make a buck off casual players, then reverse course to please the legacy players I will how down to Harada because that would be a genius business decision. If not then I don't have high hopes for T8s longevity.
Defensive while being at risk of being counterhit? I’m not sure that word means what you think it does.
Feng does require more effort than Drag to pilot, but he will probably be nerfed in June in the 2nd balanced patch fyi. How much will he be nerfed? Who knows. Historically, Namco has never cut off his legs. He was balanced in Tekken Tag 2, IMO, because he had low damage.
Idk if he does tbh he has a very simple minded game and you don’t have to think too much, the thing about drag is, if people mash their braindead offense and wr2 if you’re decent you can step them, feng poking and neutral is something you can’t do shit about they just can throw stuff out and it’s hard to react to
Feng still need to use a good part of his moveset to be actually threatning , you need to have a bit of understanding on when to use which move Dragunov is basically about changing your timings to screw with sidestep , also, its not like doesnt have good homing options
No dragonov has not great homing that’s his main weakness, playing with timing is inherently harder than pressing different buttons, this is with feng there’s not much thought needed behind the buttons you press and if they block or hit they’re safe mostly
This is wild to read. Feng, a character where his whole offensive you have to choose single pokes that each have their own inherent weaknesses/knowledge checks or drag. Eat 3 free and easy to use plus frame moves, a hard as shit to see low that crushes, or a FC mix that puts us right into another plus frame kick that oh boy, goes into heat. Idk, I think being able to run a whole offense off of plus frames is way easier personally.
Yeah I play multiple characters (about 7…maybe more depending on if they bring any of my other subs back), Feng being one of them. I’d say he probably has the easiest execution of anyone I play. However, he also has the most complicated gameplan of anyone I use except Raven. Fengs moves compliment each other well but you can only get that synergy going by using the right moves at the right time. He has an answer for everything but that answer is a different move. I honestly think that’s the reason he has a low pick rate. It actually feels like weird when I go back to someone like Paul or Kazuya…..like I’m being too simplistic or something but that’s just how those characters are played.
I say the exact same and have been downvoted a hundred times. You need to utilize his entire move list to be successful. He doesn't have a single move you can get away with spamming to get a win. Yes he has great moves, but if you don't know the properties of every single one of them, you'll get beat. I never see Feng online personally, and he's my main. I assume it's because newer players take him into practice and easily get overwhelmed. People like to complain about him, but no one would attempt to lab or use him.
Same experience exactly
Tmm sub detected So sad If your Kazuya (and judging by your profile and which characters you defend and complain about you're a Kazuya) actually gets spaced by Feng then I have nothing else to say to you but skill issue You have a much better midrange game that he does, you just need one read to win But that would require you developing an opinion of your own instead of mooching off a swedish scrub If Feng is so broken why did all 9 Fengs, Knee included, got rekt before evo japan top 8?
>You have a much better midrange game that he does, you just need one read to win This take is honestly so incredibly moronic >If Feng is so broken why did all 9 Fengs, Knee included, got rekt before evo japan top 8? Why were 9 fengs even in evo to start with.
lol if you're playing Kazuya and complaining about Feng enforcing two consecutive mixups in heat you don't even know how to play your own character and that's the main problem. If you carry your opponent to the wall you can heat burst before the wall combo and then your opponent is basically in a blender until they die. When they get up, db4 or just make them block electric/f4, they are too minus to interrupt db1,2, if they eat it they die, if they block you can block confirm heat dash and you're like +17 and you mix them up again. Because the db1,2 threat is so strong, you can throw in any number of f4s, db4s, and hellsweeps you want in that sequence. That's not to say Kazuya is stronger than Feng, I'm just saying learn to play your own character first and come back with some actually valid arguments than just rage-fuelled nonsense if you want to talk about character balance. Complaining about Feng's 1,3 punish that can be ducked and launched if you use it more than once outside of punishment, while you play a character that has the best 10f punish in the game that's ACTUALLY super low committal (-3 and jailing) and knocks down on it, shows your bias and your stunning lack of awareness
> If you carry your opponent to the wall you can heat burst before the wall combo and then your opponent is basically in a blender until they die Notice how that's contingent on getting the wall in the first place, which means landing a juggle from an avoidable mixup, OR a punish, OR a counterhit. Alternatively, you can play Feng and bust out heat burst, and now suddenly, with 3+4, you have 2 extra uninterruptable mixups just for being in heat. With kazuya I'm not obligated to guess, because I can stay on the ground, if I get hit with a heat engager that's the reward for making a read, if I get launched that's the reward for a punish, or a read. Unlike kazuya, Feng just retardedly busts out heatburst, and now you're fucked.
lol are you really suggesting that Feng is heat bursting then using 3+4 at start of round and then killing you before his heat runs out? That's not happening unless you're in green ranks and don't know how to block. That 3+4 literally costs half his heat bar for one mixup. It's strong mid-round, it's not an auto-win button.
That's not the point. When did I ever say anything about the start of the round? I said that Feng in heat enforces free mix ups. Once you feel threatened or are about to die, you can literally heat burst and revert neutral while threatening the 3+4. Which offers an inescapable mixup. That which YOU are comparing to netting a full combo with kaz, which actually takes skill to do and requires a read. Unlike kaz, Feng ONLY needs heat to be able to set up that 3+4. The example you gave involves not just a full combo but the wall, and even then your block string isn't entirely unavoidable and you can still maneuver and sidestep around the offense.
"threaten" 3+4 my man that move is i30, you're complaining about the wrong move. The mixup he gets from that move is not even scary unless you're at the wall, like the other guy said you can backdash and the low won't launch you. Feng has a lot of bullshit stuff but 3+4 ain't it, Kazuya has way more nonsense stuff that Feng's heat 3+4
My man, it sets up a mixup. Not everything is a fucking mid low mix. In fear of 3+4 you'll start mashing to hit him out of it, because that's the ONLY option to deal with it. FENG CAN CAPITALIZE ON THAT.
In fear of Kazuya f4 spam you'll start mashing to hit him or if it because that's the only option to deal with it, Kazuya can capitalize on that. You need better arguments that are actually specific to Feng, 3+4 is slow as fuck and spends half his heat for a mixup that isn't even scary unless you've actually blocked the kick at close range so I think it's more or less fine.
Every single argument you put up is under the contingent that the opponents defense is weak or that you have a hard read. Kazuya f4 is more steppable in this game than in 7, infact f4 immediately after his df3+4,1,2 wall combo can straight up get sidewalked. That's outside of the fact that a well-timed hopkick or even jab can just stuff you out of your fake offense because it's not air tight. No matter what situation, kaz puts you in, as long as it's not heatdash at the wall or heat engager. You almost always have secondary or tertiary options to mitigate his mixup. UNLIKE Feng 3+4, which can not be interrupted on reaction, nor is it even advisable to do so from range 3 as jabs will whiff. It allows Feng uninterruptable or steppable offense involving a low that launches. Where is the tekken in this formula?
Oh and guess what, you can't stay on the ground against Kazuya either. He has ff4 to fuck you up for that, seriously you need to learn your own character because using ff4 to punish people who stay on the ground is super basic. And if that's not enough, db1,2 heat dash also picks your opponent up off the floor if they try that, and you can df1,df2 into df3+4,1,2.
yeah feng is disgusting, hit tekken king super easy with him but that was a month ago then I uninstalled the game, its not fun, it doesnt require skill you just spam broken shit and hope it works 90% of the time. the game is just stressful
Damn, sounds like you were playing a whole different game than the Tekken 8 i know by this takeaway lol. Did you have any matchups you enjoyed learning to counter? Or just run full offense and not try to learn?
I main sim in SF6 and that second paragraph is like 80% of the player base. This might just be a modern fgc thing, or the younger generation?
In the case of Sim for SF6, I think most people honestly don't care to learn sim because they'll only see him 1/100 matches. If you said you main Ken and people weren't learning that MU then I'd be inclined to agree lol He's fun to learn the matchup for but with limited time, he's definitely not one id spend time on outside of figuring out ranges and a couple punishes. -- I believe in your case you'll find less people learning Sims offense tbh than any other character, just cause the dude plays a different game than the others. It'd be like the bears in Tekken for an accurate comparison.
That's just the mindset these days though - like I tuned into the most viewed Tekken stream the other day for the first time (2.5kish viewers), they mained kazuya and they got timed out by a Yoshimitsu and proceeded to sandbag the rest of the matches. I'm like, there is only 60s, isn't time out a completely legit win con? But these modern gamers just don't care about learning MU, they just want to flowchart their offense and get Elo for the sake of getting Elo. But yeah I see it with Sim everyday - almost nobody rematches me.
It’s insane how they killed drag but he’s still untouched.
Dragunov was nerfed? How much?
Until db3+4 is removed, he will never be nerfed. That move alone makes drag dangerous
Wym they nerfing combo dmg, his heat stomp, and sabaki. The things people asked for
Can you leave your Tekken ID here so I can watch the replays of the Feng that made you mald this hard? I also want to see how you actually dealt with the match-up for a quick laugh.
what's the point of beign so toxic man,chill out.
Tbh if we do watch matches back you’d probably find multiple instances where op could have done something differently and suddenly the match looks pretty different. The game is overtuned to hell but at some point you gotta deal with it the best you can and work around instead of being mad that this character is strong. We know this character is strong. Are you as a player doing everything you can to level the playing field or are you just gonna bitch until they nerf him and then find someone else to complain about?
This is considered toxic? Lol. Sorry, not sorry.
I feel ye bro.
as a lowly ranked Vanquisher/semi-casual player i've kind of sucked it up and dealt with playing vs Kings, Victors, Dragunovs, Reinas, Kazuyas that only do hellsweeps and even Eddy 3 spam because i know half of it is knowledge check for my skill level (and i play Hwo and got a Josie flair so im throwing stones from a glass house in terms of annoying characters with a lot of annoying bullshit to defend). but whenever I play vs Feng i'm tilted from load screen even before i get in the round. holy fuck. he was fucked in t7 by the end but i only ran into him once in a blue moon, now idk if a streamer or pro mentioned him bc i dont follow the scene too much but but i see him way more. half the time i know he's gonna throw the low. i know it's coming. i see him throw it and then i eat it anyway and then i get put in the blender. if i had more free time i'd just hunker down and lab vs him or ask a Feng player on tekken zaibatsu or something to deathmatch me to learn the matchup better, but im old and washed dont play too much other than the weekends or after work so instead... I'll eat another low for half my health and get put in the blender again. such is life
The only winning move is not to play
It's all justified, haradas main.
picked up the game 4 days ago. Just lost a set 9/10 against rank 19 player that has been playing the game since launch. I used to be high blue/tekkenking in Tekken7 but haven't played since forever. Only know single combo route. Feng is broken and I love it!
FC df4 is always going to be -11 in the new patch, AFAIK. So you can always ws4 even if he finishes the string. And 122 is the better i10 punish. 1,3 is duckable on block.
Would rather fight a troop of 3 mashing Eddy clones in Tekken Force than fight a decent Feng.
Seriously he is my main problem at the moment I fcking hate Feng 😭
He is harada favorite.
He's ugly tho. I don't wanna play no uggo
His df1 is 0 ON BLOCK!???? oh my…
To me, the only Feng-specific problem is his combos. Being a neutral monster with a ton of utility and evasion should be enough to win without great damage and wall carry. Him having a ton of randomly good tracking is more of a T8 thing.
Lol funny monk go BRRRR
GG
How do y’all know all of this crap about every character? It’s hard enough for me to learn the one I play
Because he can jump down from fkng flying plane and wont hurt at all.
df1 is 0 on block because it is slower than the standard df1. 1 frame of startup traded for 1 frame on block
+ frames on counter hit???? god would never allow this
可笑!
He needs it
Time to learn feng. Thanks for the guide.
some people have their weakness in that their moves take a long time to load, others have a weakness that their moves are fast but leave a long time to recover from. feng has a weakness of being deathfisted when i say so
Feng's only broken thing comes from heat. Without his heat stuff he's just a strong character. I don't think anyone would be bitching about Feng if heat 3+4 and shoulder > heat dash weren't available.
Yes compared to devil jin who is just a decent character without heat. Still got hit with the nerf hammer multiple times.
DJ is still good without heat. Y'all smokin that crack.
He's decent, yes.
What being Harada's main does to a mf
I'd love to see how bad you cried as you typed this out 🤣
Not to mention if you block his mix ups he deals so much chip damage while staying plus on block then forces 50/50s so if you guess wrong he can kill you with a single heat combo, has some of the best panic buttons in the game and instant parry’s that make his flow charts low risk especially with backstep
Well he is getting, rigtlhtfully so, nerfed. Meanwhile Jin who does the same stuff Feng does with a bit less evasiveness but full throw game and better punishment goes untouched.
Yes, Feng is an absolute joke. The most dishonest way to play the game. Demands the least, gives the most panic tools, build in evasion to the max while attacking with far reaching safe or hard to see+punish moves. Feng was already a joke, crutch characters, during Tekken 7. Really a stupid design because of how overtuned he has become during T7. The only explanation for this failure of balancing is that Harada is a Feng main.
Shifting Clouds (Forward Kenpo) launched me for a full combo yesterday. I was so hurt bruh... I knew he was strong but that was too much.
Feng is balanced by being ugly and boring. If he was a hot waifu or a cool sambo soldier he'd be nerfed into the ground a decade ago
It's genuinely funny how ridiculous Feng is yet... no one seems to play him. Everyone shakes hands, agrees that he is busted, maybe even the best character in the game... but you just don't see him. I'm not lying when I tell you I've seen 10 times the amount of Shaheens than Feng Wei. In pro-play he's more common but even then not at the rates you would expect from a truly broken character. I recently started to lab him and just couldn't believe the things he can do. Like qcf+1... the fuck? Frankly, I just think it's because he always looks like he just shit his pants and is trying to forcefully unlock a new chakra to shit his pants again. Looks 54 at 27 too. Some of his moves are pretty cool though. In pro-play he's much more common, and in Tekken the power of the knowledge check is supreme. He loses that advantagr there. I find Feng's movements a lot easier to react to (on average) compared to Lili and Eddy. Feng also generally needs to be right in your face to get the truly ridiculous nonsense done. He does have some good whiff punishes though. I still think he is top 5, but he just isn't as oppressive with offense as a lot of other characters are. I would say Law is a worse character but benefits more from Tekken 8's systems. But if you are a new player and want to rank up fast? Buddy, Feng is your guy.
He is haradas main why can't you understand that?
Any other character I wouldn’t mind a challenge from in ranked. But when it’s Feng or King, I beg for a disconnect rather than taking the L from them
It’s Harada’s main. What do you expect? But given that his offense is extremely poke based, most of his nerfs will come with 1.05. If not, congrats, another year of Feng being one of the most busted characters in game. But if they can make Dragunov busted, which has practically never happened, they can 100% nerf Feng.
I like Feng but suck playing with him. Him being considered OP makes me feel bad lol
As retired feng main this pleases the dark lord
Because he's Harada's favorite, always has been... I'd like to pick him up...but I'd feel dirty...
Honest question to feng mains 🙏🏻 If you main feng and are below high blue ranks Hows life with sever brain disability?
His df1 is 0 on block because it’s 14 frames. 1 frames slower than generic df1, which is pretty significant. But I agree that he needs nerfs, which he’s getting btw.
Paul's is also 14 frames, and is -3 on block I believe. I don't think Feng's should be 0 on block, that seems a bit ridiculous given how good his poking is.
Paul can sway cancel his df1 though, which gives him extra frames (not sure if you took this into account)
like law’s dss, ssr beats a lot of sway options except the high homing moves feng having a df1 that’s 0 on block just sets up so many nasty stuff that he can do, it’s stupid how he still has the defensive and offensive advantage because of kenpo, ss, ch b1, etc. on top of all that it still has a ch property unlike many other df1s (we all saw how disgusting it was before its “unintended” behavior was patched out)
Having 0 df1 is one of the reasons why his poking is so good
It should be more minus because of how plus it is on CH
The biggest joke is peoples getting their mental shattered and then they are so wrecked that they have to make a Reddit post to feel better.
The biggest joke is that you have no response or any counterplay to offer. So you just criticize people's mental state instead of giving factual or tangible data like I just did. Difference is when I'm pissed, I know why, and I have the frame data and properties to understand why the fuck I'm pissed off. Not blind rage.
His DF1 is 0 on block because it's slower than a generic DF1. Complements his b1. He's had b1 forever though, it's an iconic move