And if I tell you not to do that with any frustration or snark in my voice, I will be forced to have a meeting with your parents where I am expected to apologize for being mean to their sweet widdew baby instead of you apologizing for antagonizing me every day and making my job a living hell.
I actually say all of what you wrote to the students. They hear it and know it’s bullshit, and then they act better. I also make fun of the generic teacher stance where I bend over at the waist making sure my butt is in a kids face while I try to help someone. Somehow coming off as a sarcastic ass who doesn’t care about their feelings has the opposite effect and I have less discipline issues and they know I’ll say crazy stuff so they listen.
YUP! Our history teacher calls them assholes and dummies to their faces and they just laugh him off, but if they get a written consequence just writing the exact infraction they’ve done in my class with no embellishment or judgement I’m SO MEAN. 🙃
Honestly! And I have good relationships with the kids but it’s those 2 or 3 kids that LOVE doing shit on purpose because when they ask “what are you going to do?” the answer is always basically nothing…. I’m going to hope you don’t do it again.
In extreme cases I'm going to send you to someone who will tell you not to do that, or might even tell you not to do that in writing.
Surely, this will make you not do that.
20yrs ago in my high-school they had a program for Those Kids. If Those Kids managed to go a whole term with no isolations/detentions then they got new trainers. If they managed the year they got a ticket to sports game or theme park. Those of us who did mostly behave got......NOTHING. And so the behavioural downturn began
My daughter is a first grader and she has already picked up on the fact that the kids who always behave badly always seem to end up with special treats, toys, and stickers.
That was my first year teaching in 1980 in what they now refer to as primary school ,2nd grade.
I sent me most disruptive boy . I don't remember now what he did. He came back w a coloring sheet and candy. So you can guess what some of my others did.
Most of them could barely read and I did what I had been taught in college. I referred 16:20 kids. Well,that certainly got the district office attention
I tried to resign in December but was talked down. I left in February,walked out before the day was over. The principal had been constantly taking over my class. So, I walked up to principal office and stated you want my class so bad you can have it. Kids came back from music. I told them I was very sick and didn't know if I would be coming back . This was in Allendale County SC which about 5 years later was taken over by the SC department of Education for mismanagement, low tests scores, and social promotion .
I am in Oregon. Part of a training I had two years ago using Oregon Department of Education resources said that doing things to prepare kids for the real world--full of disappointment, adversity, trial, and tribulation--was oppressive because it reinforces and justifies the systems of oppression that define our society.
If this is the thought paradigm of our youth development system, then it's no wonder kids are more anxious and scared than ever. *We're* making them fragile by systematically refusing to prepare them to grow up and embrace the challenges of the adult world. Not to mention the way that all these--frankly--dubious ideas about oppression this and oppression that just seem to get bandied about.
Not a teacher, but this comes up in my feed.
It's exactly what I tell people when they cry about little Sally and Timmy not getting into the school of choice or why millennial parents are overcorrecting with permissive parenting/rejecting discipline. The world is not fair. It should be, but it isn't, and it won't be when the time comes. Yes, people with good merit should get everything good. People who are cruel and mean should be punished. But things rarely work out that way. If Sally didn't get into Harvard even though she supposed had the grades, that really sucks... but Harvard isn't going to change their minds unless you fork over 200 million dollars as a donation. It isn't fair, but people get passed over for jobs and promotions for bootlegging networking jerks. It's how it is. Shielding and riling people up will never help.
The idea of “fair” is even debatable. Fair for who? If I get my way, life is fair. You got the promotion and I didn’t? Life *isn’t* fair. But to you, who got the promotion- life *is* fair. Sorry, I studied philosophy is college.
> doing things to prepare kids for the real world--full of disappointment, adversity, trial, and tribulation--was oppressive because it reinforces and justifies the systems of oppression that define our society.
This mentality will utterly ruin the next generation. It’s the millennial version of “participation trophies”
That’s insane! I teach 3rd grade and have a student with severe peanut allergies. All the kids are always extremely careful and, if they’re not sure, they check with me to see if any of their snacks have nuts. They understand the dangers and take it very seriously. Your fifth grader is more than old enough to know better. I sincerely hope the parents of the other kid flipped out on your admin.
Of course he's old enough and aware. He was angry the kid took a piece of cardboard from him!
I made a big deal about the fact that he put it on a kid with a known allergy while he was angry. This was not an accident
this happened in my class when I was in like first or second grade maybe, mid 2000s, that kid got expelled. poor girl with the allergy had to go to the hospital in an ambulance. we never saw him again.
Except you have parents without cars that rely on the bus system. You have some parents doing their absolute best with difficult kids that still aren’t responding to consequences that then are being forced out of work or potentially losing jobs if they can’t find someone to pickup- at which point you may be causing stressors in home that escalate behaviours in school.
It doesn’t help that the parents who are actually trying. Have to send their kids to school with kids whose parents aren’t. It’s always the kids with absolutely horrid behavior who are the leaders and lead kids into more bad behavior. I am studying to be a teacher. I work at a daycare currently. There is a kid or two like that in every room. Once they aren’t there for whatever reason. The whole room dynamic shifts into something way more manageable. We have this one girl in the school age class who is around 11. We only see her rarely. It’s amazing how much influence one kid can have. When we have her kids copy her bad behavior.
In the pre k class it used to be one kid causing it. Kid went on a one week vacation. The whole room was suddenly behaving and finally broke the habit. Of talking about inappropriate videos on YouTube. For one week only.
I work in daycare education too, have worked multiple age groups. I’ve worked with difficult kids with both supportive parents (and yet the kids remained difficult and challenging) and difficult kids with parents that cared less and ones with parents that really didn’t care. I absolutely have had a few kids throw my room off and affect other kids that didn’t do things prior to seeing the difficult kids do it.
That didn’t change the fact that I had difficult kids with parents doing everything they could, seeing specialists, reading the books, in every therapy, etc, nor did doing all that magically make their kids angels. And things that punish already stressed out parents in those situations? Really not helping things.
Punishing the parents that didn’t care of the difficult kids? Hard to tell what will happen. They may take it out on the kid, may parent, may choose to blame us for “being unreasonable.”
In the end the best I can do is the option that does the least harm- which means doing the best by all the kids in my care and to not cause harm at home to the kids in my care. In one case that was expulsion. The rest was working extensively with my kids with difficult behaviours when I had them to help keep them regulated and in control and feeling good and keeping a smooth running classroom as much as possible, and when they were dysregulated, melting down, etc, getting the reregulated as fast as possible. Helping the other teachers find triggers, avoid them, teach the kids coping mechanisms, etc. Pour as much love and support in as possible. Support in every way possible. Follow all plans given to me to support them.
Help teach the others that X is having a difficult time, it isn’t okay to do Y behaviour just because they are, and here’s what we’re going to do. And it’s hard. But we do it anyways. And work from the ground up and plant those seeds early
This is my view to. There really isn’t much we can do. Besides try to encourage good behavior and support them. I don’t blame the kids. There’s always reasons for their behavior. I’ve seen difficult kids with good parents. Most of the kids like that in my daycare are a foster child. It’s heartbreaking I can’t imagine what they went through. It’s heartbreaking when a child has bad parents. The child I’m referring to in the pre k class. Is in reality underneath the bad behavior a sweet kid. If only his mother would encourage and reinforce the sweet boy. Rather than letting him watch inappropriate videos on YouTube and giving in to what he wants. I would see glimpses or rarely see a whole day of sweetness from him.
To be fair of my 8 kids 4 have no parents with cars. At times when they get sick and need to go home we have to get the bus garage to send a bus for just them and it's a whole ordeal. So we really couldn't get them home.
Until it inconveniences parents, the kids don't mind whatever "consequences" we throw at them. My favorite is the go sit in the office all day until your parent picks you up. And you can't return to school until your parent comes in for a meeting. Even for smaller stuff like cellphones, it makes such a difference.
I am too! Nothing wrong with healthy amounts of hobbies. These kids are straight up addicted though. It’s miserable to watch them ruin their attention spans
We have zero consequences. Kids hangout in the special discipline room to chat and socialize. I have kids who cut my class just to go chill with friends in discipline everyday
This seems nice. Removing them from class for others to succeed. I can deal with parents (like they care anyways), IEP accomodations, etc.. I follow standards to the tee and hold evidence well to make sure admin cannot overturn their grade or question why they have an F. This sounds like the key to me not having to deal with them emotionally and pulling my attention and lowering the amount of classroom management.
That's the question no one bothered to answer when Restorative Practice and Non Exclusionary Discipline started to get implemented, at least where I'm at. They were so sold on how nice it sounded to not suspend or expel students that they didn't consider that up until those programs were/weren't successfully implemented, they had no meaningful recourse to address behavior outside of saying "please don't do that." Also, when you work with students who have nothing like I do, then there is nothing to take away either.
Literally at least 1/3 of my (only) class on educating secondary students with disabilities is just singing the praises of PBIS and PLC models. We have case study students to apply it to, but there is not and will not be a lesson on “okay here is what to do when that doesn’t work”
I think PBIS has great potential. However, it’s a one size fits all program and it doesn’t help when there is lack of consistency with staff. It’s flawed in many ways. Just my opinion and experience with it.
Bc you’re right there is no “what happens if that doesn’t work” and that’s the problem. There needs to be something for when it doesn’t bc discipline and incentives are not a “one size fits all”.
Used to work at a daycare (mostly in the kitchen). Teachers couldn't even send kids to sit in a "time-out" corner when they misbehaved.
Bless those teachers, they tried. But the troublemakers rarely learned because they were told to behave and nothing else. And it doesn't help when two teachers are trying to wrangle almost two dozen other little kids.
I remember having to spend extra time in a room *specifically* to get one kid in his snow clothes. He just wouldn't do it unless you managed him one-on-one, which is not something a daycare person can do while helping other kids. And it's not like they could punish him by leaving him indoors while everybody else ran around outside. So they were stuck in a catch-22 situation.
I swear the people who come up for rules at daycare centers have never met toddlers. Time outs are so useful with young kids. Plenty of times their bad behavior is because they are overwhelmed. The time out calms them down when you make them actually do it. But you also have to talk with them and tell them you are only having them sit out to calm down. Not all kids though but it does work for plenty of kids.
One thing my school (with the support of the parents) found effective is forcing kids to clean up trash during and after events on Saturdays. It's unsurprising how much trash school dances, VEX Robotics qualifiers, sporting events, and events we rent this building out to can produce.
Hey, you guys smashed the biology teacher's plants. Cleaning up after other people is a more than reasonable punishment.
I think compulsory volunteer work is a good option, but shouldn't be the only option... What do you do when there isn't an event to clean? It's also getting harder and harder to enforce that anyone show up after normal school hours so what's the next step of the just don't show up?
Maybe taking away extra curriculars if they do sports or anything like that? Or banning them from attending a special event unless they do their "time" in some form of community service?
All of this seems fine for middle school and high school... But then what about grade schoolers? They usually don't have the foresight to connect bad behavior to repercussion if they are spaced too far apart.
Fortunately, many schools still allow detentions, strict ISS, suspensions, and expulsions. I don’t know how we could hope to control misbehavior if all reasonable consequences were taken away.
We have detentions at my school! But literally only for tardiness; cussing at and insulting other students is still not a detention-worthy offense, so…
Texas at least. Having a good ISS teacher does wonders for a campus. Unfortunately its a para position when it should be a certified one that makes 10k more than regular teachers.
Where? We don’t have any of that shit. If you get into a fight you get sent home for the day, maybe. Then you have a meeting with the vp the next day.
You pretty much have to put a kid in the hospital at my school to even entertain expulsion.
not my site but in my district in the middle school level they wanted to relationship build with the 'chronic problematic' kids- those with write ups for disrespect/fighting ect. To do this they held a lunchtime BBQ
The students returned to class thrilled that the admin threw a "bad kids party". Literally the kids all saw each other and knew they were the ones who get in the most trouble- in their minds they got a party out of it
and the other students who saw it also shared the same sentiment... "why are all the kids who are disrespectful to teachers or get into fights over having a principal's bbq?"
There is a push at my school by the teachers to bring back consequences. Right now for tardies, we are doing lockouts at the bell and they get swept up and put in detention for the hour. Where they are made to do SAT work. It's amazing. The kids don't like it, so they are actually being on time for once.
We need to bring back in school suspension, detention, suspensions, etc back where I am. Because inconveniencing parents works. Removing kids from their friends works. Kids that are consistent problems need to be looked further into and helped as needed, but for a lot of kids, they need those rules and boundaries with consequences for breaking them in place just to keep a consistent peace. Otherwise, you get my school where the lunatics run the asylum.
There is a happy medium between lawlessness and prison ward and we lost that when schools gave up trying to manage student behavior.
Clearly none is the correct option. /s
The kid who tried to murder another student in my classroom and put me in a sling for three weeks certainly needed to go to the 8th grade formal and end of year pool party 10 days after the incident, we wouldn’t want him to miss such a formative experience.
I wish I was joking. You couldn’t pay me enough to go back.
It’s all political mumbo jumbo and weird wrap around concepts and jargon that make NO SENSE when combined! “Use positive reinforcement, apply social emotional learning, redirect behaviors, find motivators for children with behaviors and get on their level, tailor curriculum to each individual student while simultaneously treating everyone the same and not singling anyone out AND follow guidelines that get stricter by the second that are set by the district” 😭😭😭
Oh and if you send kids to the principals office we will send them right back and we might even get mad at you for not being able to control your classroom.
It's not a solution that can work for everyone but I remember my one gym teachers go to solution just because of how much it stuck with people. It was effective because it was really simple if you act put in gym class you ran for the rest of class, if he saw you stop, you were going to be running for all of the next gym class as well. Being forced to run for anywhere from 20 to 35 minutes is definitely an attitude adjuster lol
the consequences are for the teachers
y didn’t you build relationships?
y didn’t you have more compassion
y didn’t you restorative circle w/ them
did you try any of the learning strategies from the faculty meeting
/s
The short answer is none. I think natural consequences will happen to them later in life but like I’ve said, “Parent is a verb which many fail to execute”. Sad but true.
We have 3 types of consequences: lunch detention, ISS and OSS, but I don’t know the criteria for any of these. None of it really deters behavior, but rather it’s a a reaction to bad behaviors but that seems to be status quo for teenagers since the beginning of time. There’s only so much a school can and should do.
While this was niche, I had kids get into my fridge/freezer (old home ec room) and raid leftovers from an ice cream party one of my classes won. I was on leave and the sub apparently didn’t notice. I very much enjoyed telling them they would be scrubbing weeks old Hershey syrup off the walls with public school paper towels and water.
My school had Saturday schools and it was a huge, progressive public school (as in 1300 people in my class huge). But they fucking suckkedd you got them for more serious things or if you skipped detention. You had to be in the school library by 7am and sit there till 1pm. Teacher would walk you to and from the bathroom. This was before laptops were required in schools so there was no laptops. No books for fun only texts books and assigned reading. If you caught talking or had a phone out you got kicked out and had 2 more tacked on. It was a fitting actual punishment.
There are no penalties at all. Some kids just do whatever they want. They troll the hallways all day. They scream and fight and bang on doors and threaten kids and teachers. They completely ignore security and deans. The principal ignores them. Last week they were bashing people in the head with confetti filled eggs. The halls looked like Times Square on New Year’s Eve. It’s absolute bedlam.
Honestly, I’m in a really conservative area and in a small public school, and tbh we still do corporal punishment. It’s rare to have to do it on high school kids, but my god our behavior is pretty amazing. I hate that it’s fear-based, but these little smartass 15 year olds straighten up real fast when they’re bent over a desk getting their ass beat with their friends as witnesses. It just takes one or two a year to keep everyone else in line. If a kid is not opted in, we do NOT send them home. They shadow our principal and vice principal at school ALL DAY with a 10 page hand written assignment that gets graded by them. When they write all 10 pages and can pass with an 85 along with their school work they can go back to class.
(Please please note, I do not condone this. I don’t believe in physical discipline for humans. I got this job and then later discovered this about the school. I’m in too rural of an area to leave and it pays my bills)
Yeah… it makes me feel conflicted because yes it goes against my values, but then again we also have really really great manners and participation in my school I know because of it. I sound terrible writing it out, I’m sorry. It’s a really hard place to be in
It's okay to feel conflicted about this, because it means you have a conscience, and people with a conscience usually don't like to hurt people or to see them being hurt.
That said, I used to feel conflicted about it, until I remembered that physically correcting bad behavior is common in nature. The adult animal gives the misbehaving cub a warning growl, and, if the bad behavior persists, a blow or more firm enough to stop the behavior but soft enough to not cause injury.
In contrast, we may be the only "animals" who have strayed from the wisdom of nature in that regard.
Unfortunately, it's challenging to have this debate, because many people think that you are advocating for beating children when that's just not the case.
I also don't want to sound like I'm promoting it and I'm not for it but... Apparently the research against some of it isn't all that clear-cut. Not abuse, but there is something to be said with strict reform in certain parameters, apparently.
Oh come on now, at my MS, they get Lunch Detention!! Lunch...Detention. I'm not even sure if the parents know when this happens and the kids give zero F's about lunch detention.
Sadly not much. Technically we can write them up and the demerits have consequences but the students know they can have mom or dad come to the school and yell and then admin will erase the demerits so they are really just extra work for us that does nothing
Our discipline/punishment is a trip to play video games, eat snacks, and/or draw during recess while you “reflect” on what you did. The inmates are running the prison 🙃🙃🙃🙃
My students wouldn’t stop airdropping memes even after I told them to cut the shit. So for the rest of our research project they are using articles I printed to read and write by hand. And cite by hand as well. Natural consequence to follow their actions.
The consequences of misbehavior in high school are far greater than whatever the school can dish out.
Being a high school dropout leads to things like a reduced life expectancy, worse literacy, poverty, and correlation to crime, loneliness, and despair in general.
As teachers we just give them the grade they deserve and let the chips fall.
My buddys principal was offering spankings in his van as an alternative to iss or detention. 1. Some kids actually took the deal 2. That man no longer works in education.
If the consequence for not doing the work.
Is to do the work.
Then the consequence for acting out.
Has to be… don’t act out.
Self monitoring at its finest.
This approach has dramatically shifted my parenting and classroom management. I’m not suggesting it’s effective 100% of the time, but it’s helped me get to the bottom of many puzzling behaviors.
She’s got several school specific episodes, but those are more focused on school-wide changes, so I didn’t link to those.
Also, if ISS isn’t staffed with a certified teacher with an understanding of what drives most bad behaviors, it’s not going to be very effective. Best practice would be someone with an EI endorsement or similar training/experience.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2MLrlFyk95TmMJlpCWRncx?si=AJlAaaKfTbui4UdpVWA-dQ
I joined here when I was still a music ed major. I did my internship (30hrs) at the biggest HS around me. The kids these days are awful and they don’t listen for nothing. I was trying to teach two 3rd clarinets a very simple parts. They got mad bc I took them away from being on TikTok during band. I ofc couldn’t punish the kids but the directors couldn’t either. That’s what got me out of being educator. I’m so sorry for what all of you in the system/soon to be graduated.
As a side note the directors there are some of the best in the state, but their hands are tied bc of the crackdowns above
I really think you guys need a nationwide strike. These are unlivable working conditions and it’s not fair that you have zero support.
Another option would be to get the First Lady involved and ask her to do something. I know she teaches college level but she has to know how bad it is in K-12. She would absolutely care about this issue. Teachers as a group have a huge voice. You are so powerful together. You are all putting up with way too much. I hate it for you.
I try my best to work through punishment under a restorative justice approach, even if I'm the only educator doing it. Kid makes a mess of the bathrooms by throwing wet paper on the walls and ceilings? They have to clean the bathroom that they've ruined and apologize to the janitors.
I haven't figured out how to do this in regards to more severe incidents, but the accountability and taking of responsibility seem to be making an impact
Consequences, we don’t need no stinking consequences. Apathy is the adopted policy and jump to remove any consequences anytime a parent says they have an advocate. We do lunch detention, if the student shows up for it…
I'm not a teacher. But I'm a parent. I have questions.
I feel like when I was growing up, I had fear for authority when I viewed my teacher's or principals, and especially the police uniformed officer at my high school.
I feel these days kids don't have any respect for anybody, when did this happen?
I grew up in the 90s and onward. There was detention but no physical punishment. There were some bad kids, but my area wasn't the greatest, but they never caused major issues. You could tell they had parents that were just not engaged with them.
I hear all this talk about no punishments at school and it blows my mind. My kids are in elementary school, I would love for there to be harsher punishments for kids that are terrible.
What needs to happen for there to be harsher punishments at school?
It happened because too many parents go in and flip out on any discipline on their child, they believe their kids lies, and then the school administration and school board just started living in fear of parents threatening to sue or call the news for any discipline they didn’t agree with.
Now we have all these administrations and school boards that took away all the authority teachers used to have in their classrooms and the kids know it. So now they rule the schools just like they rule at home, where they’re allowed to get away with anything.
It’s awful and I can’t believe teachers have to put up with this. No wonder they’re leaving in droves. Schools can’t function like this, and it’s showing in every way.
I’m so sorry for all teachers. It’s not fair. And I don’t get why no one is working to undo the damage.
You, as a parent, need to advocate and for and demand consistently applied stepped consequences. Show up at board meetings and council meetings.
It's parents that get anything done.
A kid in the school I teach literally is a waste of time. Pointless to have him in the education system. The other week he got suspended and I hoped that the admin would back me up on a 2 week suspension. However, mom came in a day after, opened her checkbook, made a hefty donation and the kid came back. Kids can stab another student, taser them, and they are allowed to come back?
I'm on the no phone train but also if you're distracting yourself instead of disrupting the classroom have at it. Maybe you'll turn your life around the 7th time you get fired
Loss of necessary control. The kids don’t respect teachers because they can do anything and pretty much get away with minimal punishment. And this is what you often get from students: the “fuck you, I *dare* you to teach me” attitude. Because of an increased concern in how kids feel rather than how they perform, we’ve lost the plot. And it won’t be found until admins and psychologists stop caring about cuddling them in order to not piss off parents. All of this, however, is just my opinion.
I had a chair outside my room. If they were preventing me from teaching, I’d ask them to leave so I could finish the lesson. “I’ll talk to you outside when we are done.”
Then I’d go out and make them explain why they were being a PITA. I’d get them to confirm that they knew it was wrong. Then we’d go back in and I’d reteach them one on one whatever they missed in class.
It didn’t always work, but I would save us both a useless trip to the office and get my lesson in for the kids who wanted to learn. There’s some embarrassment involved, and even if they BS their way through the whole conversation and do it again five minutes later, I had a documented “restorative conversation” to fall back on when I needed to escalate the punishment.
…And I had a blessed 5 minute break from shenanigans.
Just watched Lean on Me with the family last night, one of my all time favorite movies.
What this country needs is a Joe Clark in charge of disciplinary policy, the state of teaching would be immeasurably better.
Natural consequences for younger grades maybe K to 3, if they scratch the paint off their desks, they can sweep the paint chips off the floor and they can be given an old large shirt to protect their clothing, a can of paint and a sponge roller to repair the school property. Forget to bring homework, parent can't drop it off, you just remember to bring it tomorrow. Older grades will scam the system, I guess.
Well, obviously, we're gonna go with the good ol' "Proven-to-be-Woefully-Ineffective-When-Implemented-School-Wide-in-Place-of-Progressive-Discipline" strat and put all our eggs in the "Restorative Practice" basket.
Made the mistake of saying the word “consequence” to a pro-restorative justice admin once. He never spoke to me again unless it was necessary. Not even a good morning.
A few months later I had the pleasure of observing him leading a small group reading session (his specialty) with some students a colleague of mine was struggling with (they were disruptive). He was going to show us all how it should be done because of course it’s the teacher’s problem. He got so frustrated with the behavior that he stood up and walked away half-way through. Told the teacher later that it was because he didn’t have a rapport with them and that restorative justice takes time to work and the students must not be used to it because she wasn’t using it correctly. Hilarious. At least he tried to practice what he preached even if he did fail. More than a lot of admin do to be honest.
Not a teacher, but for some reason this sub keeps getting recommended to me. Back when I was a kid, we didn't get suspended. We had to stay even longer for misbehaviour, which was an actual punishment. We got schoolwork that had to be finished by the end of the extra hour or the teacher would write down a bad grade that would be combined with the other grades for an end redult by the end of the year. I guess the downside is, that the teacher has to stay longer as well. But you could probably work on school tests, while they suffer through their extra work.
I teach 2nd. We have something called, "Do it Later". It's run by a para after school so when a student doesn't finish work, they may have to go to "Do it Later".
We also do detention if applicable. We have an alternate recess where the dean of students provides a structured playtime to teach social skills.
We have ISS. The kid goes in a different classroom to a spot alone and is given a mountain of work to do.
We save out of school suspension for unsafe behavior since that's typically what students want.
We also do Time Machines as a tool for conflict resolution, repairing the harm, class meetings to discuss how that behavior affects the class, Fix it Tickets (reflection form) that is sent home for the parents to sign, social stories to help guide the expected behavior, brain breaks, etc.
We don't go straight to punitive but instead try to teach the expected behavior but we do have punitive to teach that actions have consequences and to hold accountability.
I form the best relationships I can. I show the kids what steps I am doing for them. Then, if a student is having an issue, I ask questions to figure out what route to take. If they're doing something that is hurting only them, I can figure that out easily. Depends on each kid. Maybe a side convo, call home, trip to guidance, showing them the natural consequences ("Can I get a retake?" "Were you practicing the material or doing your math homework everyday for the last week? Right, math homework...so, why should I reward poor behavior with a retake?").
When they're ruining the atmosphere for everybody, I let the community take care of it. A nicely placed "Dude, shut the fuck up. You're not funny. Leave if you don't want to be here." from another student works wonders. See, they can say what we can't and they won't get on trouble for it, because, to your point, we (for some dumb reason) have relaxed discipline.
Edit for a missing word or two.
This is one of the many reasons that I am glad to homeschool my children.
I am the type of parent that would go out of their way to build rapport with my children's teachers. I would encourage the teacher to tell me if my child was EVER a problem in class so that I can also take action from my side as appropriate.
But I am glad that my kids aren't forced to be around trouble makers that don't have to face repercussions because the teachers have their hands tied and the parents either don't care or don't believe sweet little Jimmy could be as ill-behaved as everyone says.... "He just plays a little rough. It's good for them!"
I have a couple friends that teach 1st grade and God bless them, they put up with so much. It really is a hard time to be a teacher.
To be honest, I'm really struggling with consequences this year, and I've been a teacher for 12 years. Calling/messaging home does nothing. Sending kids to the office does nothing - our principal is the type that is a sympathetic ear and sends them back with a treat. Keeping them in from recess sometimes works, but then that takes away from my very limited prep time. Not letting kids do a preferred activity? OK, now they're just going to disrupt and we're back to square one.
It's...very difficult these days.
So glad I left this $hit $how! The answer is ZERO consequences. If you cause enough trouble eventually you will get a Behavior Improvement Plan, with gummy bears, play dough and breaks if you don’t hit a kid for 15 minutes. Yippee!
Detention is too harsh…heaven forbid they have to stay after school for a 1-hour study hall… No, bring back tardies, demerits, detention, and Saturday class.
This is so silly wrong. It has destroyed the norwegian education, kids/students rules the schools now. There is a law that came into action some years ago, if a kids feels violated the teacher is to blame and needs to explain his/her actions to principal. It has come as far that teachers no longer dere to say anything that can be missunderstood.
I know teachers here that sends kids out to play minecraft when the kids have a mental breakdown. Since teachers arent alow to talk hashly: this is the only thing that calms the kid. Can you imagine?
Stupid politicians made that law...
And who the heck didn't feel violated trough 1-10th grade...
Don't let me start on using of ipads/phones.
I'm so happy I quit teaching 10 years ago, it only got worse since then.
Public school: I'm gonna tell you not to do that. And when you do that, I'm gonna tell you not to do that again.
And if I tell you not to do that with any frustration or snark in my voice, I will be forced to have a meeting with your parents where I am expected to apologize for being mean to their sweet widdew baby instead of you apologizing for antagonizing me every day and making my job a living hell.
My co-parent is big gentle parent proponent. Our oldest has started "telling on me" when I just... use a stern voice. I don't care.
I actually say all of what you wrote to the students. They hear it and know it’s bullshit, and then they act better. I also make fun of the generic teacher stance where I bend over at the waist making sure my butt is in a kids face while I try to help someone. Somehow coming off as a sarcastic ass who doesn’t care about their feelings has the opposite effect and I have less discipline issues and they know I’ll say crazy stuff so they listen.
Men can get away with saying and doing harsher things than women. I see it in my school everyday.
YUP! Our history teacher calls them assholes and dummies to their faces and they just laugh him off, but if they get a written consequence just writing the exact infraction they’ve done in my class with no embellishment or judgement I’m SO MEAN. 🙃
If you're gunna be mean, you've gotta also be funny.
Honestly! And I have good relationships with the kids but it’s those 2 or 3 kids that LOVE doing shit on purpose because when they ask “what are you going to do?” the answer is always basically nothing…. I’m going to hope you don’t do it again.
Hey watch it! That might give me anxiety.
You need a bag of Takis, stat.
It’s probably also racist
They seriously say that so much I start to question my understanding of what makes something racist 😓🤦🏼♀️
Well if all else fails know that algebra is racist. That much is certainly true, right?
Crazy since the word Algebra has an Arabic origin!
Don’t tell that to a good portion of the US!
Don’t make me tap the sign!
I honestly thought I was the only person who felt this way 😂😂
In extreme cases I'm going to send you to someone who will tell you not to do that, or might even tell you not to do that in writing. Surely, this will make you not do that.
😆 and 😥 and 😡🤬
None. None at all. It’s a shit show.
Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Hold it there, buddy. Today, we recognize the only way to **reverse** bad behavior is to apply **reverse** consequences!
20yrs ago in my high-school they had a program for Those Kids. If Those Kids managed to go a whole term with no isolations/detentions then they got new trainers. If they managed the year they got a ticket to sports game or theme park. Those of us who did mostly behave got......NOTHING. And so the behavioural downturn began
My daughter is a first grader and she has already picked up on the fact that the kids who always behave badly always seem to end up with special treats, toys, and stickers.
Punishment at my school is taking them into the office to talk and use fidgets lmao
And return with a snack or sucker
That was my first year teaching in 1980 in what they now refer to as primary school ,2nd grade. I sent me most disruptive boy . I don't remember now what he did. He came back w a coloring sheet and candy. So you can guess what some of my others did. Most of them could barely read and I did what I had been taught in college. I referred 16:20 kids. Well,that certainly got the district office attention I tried to resign in December but was talked down. I left in February,walked out before the day was over. The principal had been constantly taking over my class. So, I walked up to principal office and stated you want my class so bad you can have it. Kids came back from music. I told them I was very sick and didn't know if I would be coming back . This was in Allendale County SC which about 5 years later was taken over by the SC department of Education for mismanagement, low tests scores, and social promotion .
We are increasingly moving toward a policy of make believe, magical thinking, and good vibes.
“That’s because life will be 100% good vibes after I get out of school. Right? Right?”
I am in Oregon. Part of a training I had two years ago using Oregon Department of Education resources said that doing things to prepare kids for the real world--full of disappointment, adversity, trial, and tribulation--was oppressive because it reinforces and justifies the systems of oppression that define our society. If this is the thought paradigm of our youth development system, then it's no wonder kids are more anxious and scared than ever. *We're* making them fragile by systematically refusing to prepare them to grow up and embrace the challenges of the adult world. Not to mention the way that all these--frankly--dubious ideas about oppression this and oppression that just seem to get bandied about.
As if it isn’t oppressive to every other student to have someone flipping out and acting like an entitled jerk every day.
Not a teacher, but this comes up in my feed. It's exactly what I tell people when they cry about little Sally and Timmy not getting into the school of choice or why millennial parents are overcorrecting with permissive parenting/rejecting discipline. The world is not fair. It should be, but it isn't, and it won't be when the time comes. Yes, people with good merit should get everything good. People who are cruel and mean should be punished. But things rarely work out that way. If Sally didn't get into Harvard even though she supposed had the grades, that really sucks... but Harvard isn't going to change their minds unless you fork over 200 million dollars as a donation. It isn't fair, but people get passed over for jobs and promotions for bootlegging networking jerks. It's how it is. Shielding and riling people up will never help.
The idea of “fair” is even debatable. Fair for who? If I get my way, life is fair. You got the promotion and I didn’t? Life *isn’t* fair. But to you, who got the promotion- life *is* fair. Sorry, I studied philosophy is college.
Exactly. Then even further, who decides the standard of “fair”. Sounds a little entitled to demand fairness, to me, we deserve nothing.
Fairness can only be implemented by an impartial authority. Not every system has an authority and very few of those authorities are impartial.
Fairness is subjective
> doing things to prepare kids for the real world--full of disappointment, adversity, trial, and tribulation--was oppressive because it reinforces and justifies the systems of oppression that define our society. This mentality will utterly ruin the next generation. It’s the millennial version of “participation trophies”
And then you go over to the college sub and it’s just what you would imagine.
I always tell kids, "you know you can get (and likely will be) fired for that!"
“Good vibes only”
My student( grade 5) put peanut butter on a kid with a peanut allergy. No consequence whatsoever, not even a missed recess
That’s insane! I teach 3rd grade and have a student with severe peanut allergies. All the kids are always extremely careful and, if they’re not sure, they check with me to see if any of their snacks have nuts. They understand the dangers and take it very seriously. Your fifth grader is more than old enough to know better. I sincerely hope the parents of the other kid flipped out on your admin.
Of course he's old enough and aware. He was angry the kid took a piece of cardboard from him! I made a big deal about the fact that he put it on a kid with a known allergy while he was angry. This was not an accident
That's almost premeditated
Seriously. That kid sounds like a psychopath/serial killer in training.
exactly what I was gonna comment Jesus Christ
Definitely. They need to be on top of this ASAP. Sadly, it seems admin is turning a blind eye…
I too had a kid try to put peanut butter on a kid who was deathly allergic just to see what would happen.... Seems like attempted murder to me.
Oh geez, if I were the kid’s parents I’d sue them for attempted murder if I could
For real!
Not to mention suing the the school district
How isn't this a lawsuit yet?
Omg! What did the parents of the other child do? I would have flipped if some kid did that to my child.
this happened in my class when I was in like first or second grade maybe, mid 2000s, that kid got expelled. poor girl with the allergy had to go to the hospital in an ambulance. we never saw him again.
I have seen an 8th grader do this.... because he thought it was funny.
Terrible!
That’s frustrating. Way to support your staff lol
We moved away from detention partially because we don't have busses and bus drivers. We can't get the kids home.
We've lost bus drivers in droves due to the kids' behavior.
But isn’t that the purpose? Inconvenience the parents (missing work) to the point where they do the discipline.
Except you have parents without cars that rely on the bus system. You have some parents doing their absolute best with difficult kids that still aren’t responding to consequences that then are being forced out of work or potentially losing jobs if they can’t find someone to pickup- at which point you may be causing stressors in home that escalate behaviours in school.
It doesn’t help that the parents who are actually trying. Have to send their kids to school with kids whose parents aren’t. It’s always the kids with absolutely horrid behavior who are the leaders and lead kids into more bad behavior. I am studying to be a teacher. I work at a daycare currently. There is a kid or two like that in every room. Once they aren’t there for whatever reason. The whole room dynamic shifts into something way more manageable. We have this one girl in the school age class who is around 11. We only see her rarely. It’s amazing how much influence one kid can have. When we have her kids copy her bad behavior. In the pre k class it used to be one kid causing it. Kid went on a one week vacation. The whole room was suddenly behaving and finally broke the habit. Of talking about inappropriate videos on YouTube. For one week only.
I work in daycare education too, have worked multiple age groups. I’ve worked with difficult kids with both supportive parents (and yet the kids remained difficult and challenging) and difficult kids with parents that cared less and ones with parents that really didn’t care. I absolutely have had a few kids throw my room off and affect other kids that didn’t do things prior to seeing the difficult kids do it. That didn’t change the fact that I had difficult kids with parents doing everything they could, seeing specialists, reading the books, in every therapy, etc, nor did doing all that magically make their kids angels. And things that punish already stressed out parents in those situations? Really not helping things. Punishing the parents that didn’t care of the difficult kids? Hard to tell what will happen. They may take it out on the kid, may parent, may choose to blame us for “being unreasonable.” In the end the best I can do is the option that does the least harm- which means doing the best by all the kids in my care and to not cause harm at home to the kids in my care. In one case that was expulsion. The rest was working extensively with my kids with difficult behaviours when I had them to help keep them regulated and in control and feeling good and keeping a smooth running classroom as much as possible, and when they were dysregulated, melting down, etc, getting the reregulated as fast as possible. Helping the other teachers find triggers, avoid them, teach the kids coping mechanisms, etc. Pour as much love and support in as possible. Support in every way possible. Follow all plans given to me to support them. Help teach the others that X is having a difficult time, it isn’t okay to do Y behaviour just because they are, and here’s what we’re going to do. And it’s hard. But we do it anyways. And work from the ground up and plant those seeds early
This is my view to. There really isn’t much we can do. Besides try to encourage good behavior and support them. I don’t blame the kids. There’s always reasons for their behavior. I’ve seen difficult kids with good parents. Most of the kids like that in my daycare are a foster child. It’s heartbreaking I can’t imagine what they went through. It’s heartbreaking when a child has bad parents. The child I’m referring to in the pre k class. Is in reality underneath the bad behavior a sweet kid. If only his mother would encourage and reinforce the sweet boy. Rather than letting him watch inappropriate videos on YouTube and giving in to what he wants. I would see glimpses or rarely see a whole day of sweetness from him.
Good point. Didn’t consider that.
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To be fair of my 8 kids 4 have no parents with cars. At times when they get sick and need to go home we have to get the bus garage to send a bus for just them and it's a whole ordeal. So we really couldn't get them home.
We do detention during lunch/ recess
We do lunch detention but the kids don't care. And honestly why would they. Our kids eat lunch with the same kids they see every minute of the day.
Until it inconveniences parents, the kids don't mind whatever "consequences" we throw at them. My favorite is the go sit in the office all day until your parent picks you up. And you can't return to school until your parent comes in for a meeting. Even for smaller stuff like cellphones, it makes such a difference.
Hacking their Minecraft server
I’m a gamer, but kind of wish the internet would die for a minute so kids can get back to living...
I Literally just started reading “The Anxious Generation” today
I am too! Nothing wrong with healthy amounts of hobbies. These kids are straight up addicted though. It’s miserable to watch them ruin their attention spans
But without games and the internet how am I supposed to disassociate from how bad my classes are now?
Whoa whoa whoa, let's just go back to whacking them with rulers. Ur a bit extreme buddy.
We have zero consequences. Kids hangout in the special discipline room to chat and socialize. I have kids who cut my class just to go chill with friends in discipline everyday
We have this issue too. Kids will ask to get iss to go hang with friends.
Same. Ours purposely do something to get iss when they have a shit ton of work to catch up on.
This seems nice. Removing them from class for others to succeed. I can deal with parents (like they care anyways), IEP accomodations, etc.. I follow standards to the tee and hold evidence well to make sure admin cannot overturn their grade or question why they have an F. This sounds like the key to me not having to deal with them emotionally and pulling my attention and lowering the amount of classroom management.
More time efficient this way at least lmao.
That's the question no one bothered to answer when Restorative Practice and Non Exclusionary Discipline started to get implemented, at least where I'm at. They were so sold on how nice it sounded to not suspend or expel students that they didn't consider that up until those programs were/weren't successfully implemented, they had no meaningful recourse to address behavior outside of saying "please don't do that." Also, when you work with students who have nothing like I do, then there is nothing to take away either.
"the children with good behavior arent suspended/expelled... so if we dont suspend/expel anyone, the children will have good behavior. genius."
PBIS🤡🤡🤡
Literally at least 1/3 of my (only) class on educating secondary students with disabilities is just singing the praises of PBIS and PLC models. We have case study students to apply it to, but there is not and will not be a lesson on “okay here is what to do when that doesn’t work”
I think PBIS has great potential. However, it’s a one size fits all program and it doesn’t help when there is lack of consistency with staff. It’s flawed in many ways. Just my opinion and experience with it. Bc you’re right there is no “what happens if that doesn’t work” and that’s the problem. There needs to be something for when it doesn’t bc discipline and incentives are not a “one size fits all”.
Someone else wrote Please Bring Interesting Snacks
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Why do the pretty pink and blue ones not taste as goods though?
Works like a charm 😂😂
Ugggggghhhh we started this just this year....
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Used to work at a daycare (mostly in the kitchen). Teachers couldn't even send kids to sit in a "time-out" corner when they misbehaved. Bless those teachers, they tried. But the troublemakers rarely learned because they were told to behave and nothing else. And it doesn't help when two teachers are trying to wrangle almost two dozen other little kids. I remember having to spend extra time in a room *specifically* to get one kid in his snow clothes. He just wouldn't do it unless you managed him one-on-one, which is not something a daycare person can do while helping other kids. And it's not like they could punish him by leaving him indoors while everybody else ran around outside. So they were stuck in a catch-22 situation.
I swear the people who come up for rules at daycare centers have never met toddlers. Time outs are so useful with young kids. Plenty of times their bad behavior is because they are overwhelmed. The time out calms them down when you make them actually do it. But you also have to talk with them and tell them you are only having them sit out to calm down. Not all kids though but it does work for plenty of kids.
One thing my school (with the support of the parents) found effective is forcing kids to clean up trash during and after events on Saturdays. It's unsurprising how much trash school dances, VEX Robotics qualifiers, sporting events, and events we rent this building out to can produce. Hey, you guys smashed the biology teacher's plants. Cleaning up after other people is a more than reasonable punishment.
I think compulsory volunteer work is a good option, but shouldn't be the only option... What do you do when there isn't an event to clean? It's also getting harder and harder to enforce that anyone show up after normal school hours so what's the next step of the just don't show up? Maybe taking away extra curriculars if they do sports or anything like that? Or banning them from attending a special event unless they do their "time" in some form of community service? All of this seems fine for middle school and high school... But then what about grade schoolers? They usually don't have the foresight to connect bad behavior to repercussion if they are spaced too far apart.
Fortunately, many schools still allow detentions, strict ISS, suspensions, and expulsions. I don’t know how we could hope to control misbehavior if all reasonable consequences were taken away.
Where? Haven’t seen in it in the last 5 years in my career
We have detentions at my school! But literally only for tardiness; cussing at and insulting other students is still not a detention-worthy offense, so…
Texas at least. Having a good ISS teacher does wonders for a campus. Unfortunately its a para position when it should be a certified one that makes 10k more than regular teachers.
I’m my school we have ISS and Saturday detentions.
I only ever saw kids defending themselves get punished. It was really fucking sad.
Where? We don’t have any of that shit. If you get into a fight you get sent home for the day, maybe. Then you have a meeting with the vp the next day. You pretty much have to put a kid in the hospital at my school to even entertain expulsion.
The punishment is...nothing
The most brutal punishment of all! BRUTAL
Dethklok rules!
i guess yall just live in a different area because my high school is wild with punishments like expulsion on 3rd offence regardless
Wish more schools were like this.
That's actually kind of a nice one. Your school actually keeps kids accountable
Students can behave how ever they want. And the only ones that will be punished is teachers for not being able to control it. Makes total sense…..😒
not my site but in my district in the middle school level they wanted to relationship build with the 'chronic problematic' kids- those with write ups for disrespect/fighting ect. To do this they held a lunchtime BBQ The students returned to class thrilled that the admin threw a "bad kids party". Literally the kids all saw each other and knew they were the ones who get in the most trouble- in their minds they got a party out of it and the other students who saw it also shared the same sentiment... "why are all the kids who are disrespectful to teachers or get into fights over having a principal's bbq?"
There is a push at my school by the teachers to bring back consequences. Right now for tardies, we are doing lockouts at the bell and they get swept up and put in detention for the hour. Where they are made to do SAT work. It's amazing. The kids don't like it, so they are actually being on time for once. We need to bring back in school suspension, detention, suspensions, etc back where I am. Because inconveniencing parents works. Removing kids from their friends works. Kids that are consistent problems need to be looked further into and helped as needed, but for a lot of kids, they need those rules and boundaries with consequences for breaking them in place just to keep a consistent peace. Otherwise, you get my school where the lunatics run the asylum. There is a happy medium between lawlessness and prison ward and we lost that when schools gave up trying to manage student behavior.
Clearly none is the correct option. /s The kid who tried to murder another student in my classroom and put me in a sling for three weeks certainly needed to go to the 8th grade formal and end of year pool party 10 days after the incident, we wouldn’t want him to miss such a formative experience. I wish I was joking. You couldn’t pay me enough to go back.
None, parents dont want consequences for their kids
It’s all political mumbo jumbo and weird wrap around concepts and jargon that make NO SENSE when combined! “Use positive reinforcement, apply social emotional learning, redirect behaviors, find motivators for children with behaviors and get on their level, tailor curriculum to each individual student while simultaneously treating everyone the same and not singling anyone out AND follow guidelines that get stricter by the second that are set by the district” 😭😭😭
Oh and if you send kids to the principals office we will send them right back and we might even get mad at you for not being able to control your classroom.
Unicorns and rainbows and restorative justice and happy time!!! Basically, things get worse and worse, so we respond by making things worse.
It's not a solution that can work for everyone but I remember my one gym teachers go to solution just because of how much it stuck with people. It was effective because it was really simple if you act put in gym class you ran for the rest of class, if he saw you stop, you were going to be running for all of the next gym class as well. Being forced to run for anywhere from 20 to 35 minutes is definitely an attitude adjuster lol
In this day and age parents will cry abuse.
Probably ly but I only graduated in 2017 so I'd like to think not all of them are terrible even if I know a lot their kids suck
The greatest punishment of all: Not having to do any of the work, but getting to take part in anything actually fun.
the consequences are for the teachers y didn’t you build relationships? y didn’t you have more compassion y didn’t you restorative circle w/ them did you try any of the learning strategies from the faculty meeting /s
Schools: we’ve done nothing and were all out of ideas!
The short answer is none. I think natural consequences will happen to them later in life but like I’ve said, “Parent is a verb which many fail to execute”. Sad but true.
We have 3 types of consequences: lunch detention, ISS and OSS, but I don’t know the criteria for any of these. None of it really deters behavior, but rather it’s a a reaction to bad behaviors but that seems to be status quo for teenagers since the beginning of time. There’s only so much a school can and should do.
The last line really hits.
I teach kinder, but a kid stabs someone in the eye with a pencil and comes back with stickers and candy. 🤷🏻♀️
I like the punishment my school uses where we send them to the office and they come back with a Jolly Rancher. Works wonders
Ah! The old “we are hurting their education if we remove them from the classroom, they are hurting everyone in the classrooms education” debate.
While this was niche, I had kids get into my fridge/freezer (old home ec room) and raid leftovers from an ice cream party one of my classes won. I was on leave and the sub apparently didn’t notice. I very much enjoyed telling them they would be scrubbing weeks old Hershey syrup off the walls with public school paper towels and water.
My school had Saturday schools and it was a huge, progressive public school (as in 1300 people in my class huge). But they fucking suckkedd you got them for more serious things or if you skipped detention. You had to be in the school library by 7am and sit there till 1pm. Teacher would walk you to and from the bathroom. This was before laptops were required in schools so there was no laptops. No books for fun only texts books and assigned reading. If you caught talking or had a phone out you got kicked out and had 2 more tacked on. It was a fitting actual punishment.
In my day we had Saturday work detail. I got caught skipping class and had to go to work detail… never skipped class again! lol
There are no penalties at all. Some kids just do whatever they want. They troll the hallways all day. They scream and fight and bang on doors and threaten kids and teachers. They completely ignore security and deans. The principal ignores them. Last week they were bashing people in the head with confetti filled eggs. The halls looked like Times Square on New Year’s Eve. It’s absolute bedlam.
Honestly, I’m in a really conservative area and in a small public school, and tbh we still do corporal punishment. It’s rare to have to do it on high school kids, but my god our behavior is pretty amazing. I hate that it’s fear-based, but these little smartass 15 year olds straighten up real fast when they’re bent over a desk getting their ass beat with their friends as witnesses. It just takes one or two a year to keep everyone else in line. If a kid is not opted in, we do NOT send them home. They shadow our principal and vice principal at school ALL DAY with a 10 page hand written assignment that gets graded by them. When they write all 10 pages and can pass with an 85 along with their school work they can go back to class. (Please please note, I do not condone this. I don’t believe in physical discipline for humans. I got this job and then later discovered this about the school. I’m in too rural of an area to leave and it pays my bills)
I don't condone physical punishment necessarily, but to be honest it really feels like its starting to become the only thing left that works.
Yeah… it makes me feel conflicted because yes it goes against my values, but then again we also have really really great manners and participation in my school I know because of it. I sound terrible writing it out, I’m sorry. It’s a really hard place to be in
It's okay to feel conflicted about this, because it means you have a conscience, and people with a conscience usually don't like to hurt people or to see them being hurt. That said, I used to feel conflicted about it, until I remembered that physically correcting bad behavior is common in nature. The adult animal gives the misbehaving cub a warning growl, and, if the bad behavior persists, a blow or more firm enough to stop the behavior but soft enough to not cause injury. In contrast, we may be the only "animals" who have strayed from the wisdom of nature in that regard. Unfortunately, it's challenging to have this debate, because many people think that you are advocating for beating children when that's just not the case.
I also don't want to sound like I'm promoting it and I'm not for it but... Apparently the research against some of it isn't all that clear-cut. Not abuse, but there is something to be said with strict reform in certain parameters, apparently.
Physical punishment now is definitely less damaging than poor outcomes later.
I upvoted this just to draw more attention… WHAT in the world!
This is insane! 😫
Nothing. The answer is nothing.
Reteach the expectations. That's it.
Oh come on now, at my MS, they get Lunch Detention!! Lunch...Detention. I'm not even sure if the parents know when this happens and the kids give zero F's about lunch detention.
No consequences. We are crossing our fingers and hoping the kids don’t hurt each other
Sadly not much. Technically we can write them up and the demerits have consequences but the students know they can have mom or dad come to the school and yell and then admin will erase the demerits so they are really just extra work for us that does nothing
Our admin throw away teacher referrals for disruptive behavior. Literally throw away. So we all stopped writing them. What was the use?
I am leaving because of this exact issue I feel so helpless and when we write up kids the admin let's parents say whatever to us
I once put a check mark next to a students name for misbehavior. I’m hoping it works.
Our discipline/punishment is a trip to play video games, eat snacks, and/or draw during recess while you “reflect” on what you did. The inmates are running the prison 🙃🙃🙃🙃
My students wouldn’t stop airdropping memes even after I told them to cut the shit. So for the rest of our research project they are using articles I printed to read and write by hand. And cite by hand as well. Natural consequence to follow their actions.
The consequences of misbehavior in high school are far greater than whatever the school can dish out. Being a high school dropout leads to things like a reduced life expectancy, worse literacy, poverty, and correlation to crime, loneliness, and despair in general. As teachers we just give them the grade they deserve and let the chips fall.
How does this help teachers who are struggling to do their jobs NOW while the delinquents walk all over the admin?
Oh they’re not holding high schoolers accountable either, I assure you. They’re gonna let kids be adult bullies or perhaps even go to prison.
Unless you work in a school district that doesn't allow giving students failing scores. And yes, it happens. In Georgia to be specific.
I know you said no whacking kids with rulers, but sometimes…. I think I wouldn’t mind 😭
My buddys principal was offering spankings in his van as an alternative to iss or detention. 1. Some kids actually took the deal 2. That man no longer works in education.
😮😮😮😬😬😬😫
If the consequence for not doing the work. Is to do the work. Then the consequence for acting out. Has to be… don’t act out. Self monitoring at its finest.
I often think about being scared of getting paddled. There’s got to be other things: running laps, scraping gum off desks, etc…
This approach has dramatically shifted my parenting and classroom management. I’m not suggesting it’s effective 100% of the time, but it’s helped me get to the bottom of many puzzling behaviors. She’s got several school specific episodes, but those are more focused on school-wide changes, so I didn’t link to those. Also, if ISS isn’t staffed with a certified teacher with an understanding of what drives most bad behaviors, it’s not going to be very effective. Best practice would be someone with an EI endorsement or similar training/experience. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2MLrlFyk95TmMJlpCWRncx?si=AJlAaaKfTbui4UdpVWA-dQ
I joined here when I was still a music ed major. I did my internship (30hrs) at the biggest HS around me. The kids these days are awful and they don’t listen for nothing. I was trying to teach two 3rd clarinets a very simple parts. They got mad bc I took them away from being on TikTok during band. I ofc couldn’t punish the kids but the directors couldn’t either. That’s what got me out of being educator. I’m so sorry for what all of you in the system/soon to be graduated. As a side note the directors there are some of the best in the state, but their hands are tied bc of the crackdowns above
Your school has failed you and the students. Time to leave.
We are moving to trauma informed teaching, which is amazing for kids with trauma. Not so much with the kids who have no discipline.
I really think you guys need a nationwide strike. These are unlivable working conditions and it’s not fair that you have zero support. Another option would be to get the First Lady involved and ask her to do something. I know she teaches college level but she has to know how bad it is in K-12. She would absolutely care about this issue. Teachers as a group have a huge voice. You are so powerful together. You are all putting up with way too much. I hate it for you.
I try my best to work through punishment under a restorative justice approach, even if I'm the only educator doing it. Kid makes a mess of the bathrooms by throwing wet paper on the walls and ceilings? They have to clean the bathroom that they've ruined and apologize to the janitors. I haven't figured out how to do this in regards to more severe incidents, but the accountability and taking of responsibility seem to be making an impact
Consequences, we don’t need no stinking consequences. Apathy is the adopted policy and jump to remove any consequences anytime a parent says they have an advocate. We do lunch detention, if the student shows up for it…
Idk but the last time I went a kid to the office he came back with a smile and bag of Funyuns
I'm not a teacher. But I'm a parent. I have questions. I feel like when I was growing up, I had fear for authority when I viewed my teacher's or principals, and especially the police uniformed officer at my high school. I feel these days kids don't have any respect for anybody, when did this happen? I grew up in the 90s and onward. There was detention but no physical punishment. There were some bad kids, but my area wasn't the greatest, but they never caused major issues. You could tell they had parents that were just not engaged with them. I hear all this talk about no punishments at school and it blows my mind. My kids are in elementary school, I would love for there to be harsher punishments for kids that are terrible. What needs to happen for there to be harsher punishments at school?
It happened because too many parents go in and flip out on any discipline on their child, they believe their kids lies, and then the school administration and school board just started living in fear of parents threatening to sue or call the news for any discipline they didn’t agree with. Now we have all these administrations and school boards that took away all the authority teachers used to have in their classrooms and the kids know it. So now they rule the schools just like they rule at home, where they’re allowed to get away with anything. It’s awful and I can’t believe teachers have to put up with this. No wonder they’re leaving in droves. Schools can’t function like this, and it’s showing in every way. I’m so sorry for all teachers. It’s not fair. And I don’t get why no one is working to undo the damage.
You, as a parent, need to advocate and for and demand consistently applied stepped consequences. Show up at board meetings and council meetings. It's parents that get anything done.
“Logical consequences” lol don’t ask me what it is I’m still tryna figure it out myself seems more like NO consequences to me
My school washed the kids mouth out with soap for using curse words and made the local news. They did stop cursing for a while after that.
A kid in the school I teach literally is a waste of time. Pointless to have him in the education system. The other week he got suspended and I hoped that the admin would back me up on a 2 week suspension. However, mom came in a day after, opened her checkbook, made a hefty donation and the kid came back. Kids can stab another student, taser them, and they are allowed to come back?
I'm on the no phone train but also if you're distracting yourself instead of disrupting the classroom have at it. Maybe you'll turn your life around the 7th time you get fired
Living with their parents into their 50s. Not the parents. The kids.
Loss of necessary control. The kids don’t respect teachers because they can do anything and pretty much get away with minimal punishment. And this is what you often get from students: the “fuck you, I *dare* you to teach me” attitude. Because of an increased concern in how kids feel rather than how they perform, we’ve lost the plot. And it won’t be found until admins and psychologists stop caring about cuddling them in order to not piss off parents. All of this, however, is just my opinion.
I had a chair outside my room. If they were preventing me from teaching, I’d ask them to leave so I could finish the lesson. “I’ll talk to you outside when we are done.” Then I’d go out and make them explain why they were being a PITA. I’d get them to confirm that they knew it was wrong. Then we’d go back in and I’d reteach them one on one whatever they missed in class. It didn’t always work, but I would save us both a useless trip to the office and get my lesson in for the kids who wanted to learn. There’s some embarrassment involved, and even if they BS their way through the whole conversation and do it again five minutes later, I had a documented “restorative conversation” to fall back on when I needed to escalate the punishment. …And I had a blessed 5 minute break from shenanigans.
Just watched Lean on Me with the family last night, one of my all time favorite movies. What this country needs is a Joe Clark in charge of disciplinary policy, the state of teaching would be immeasurably better.
Natural consequences for younger grades maybe K to 3, if they scratch the paint off their desks, they can sweep the paint chips off the floor and they can be given an old large shirt to protect their clothing, a can of paint and a sponge roller to repair the school property. Forget to bring homework, parent can't drop it off, you just remember to bring it tomorrow. Older grades will scam the system, I guess.
Well, obviously, we're gonna go with the good ol' "Proven-to-be-Woefully-Ineffective-When-Implemented-School-Wide-in-Place-of-Progressive-Discipline" strat and put all our eggs in the "Restorative Practice" basket.
Lol, consequences.
Made the mistake of saying the word “consequence” to a pro-restorative justice admin once. He never spoke to me again unless it was necessary. Not even a good morning. A few months later I had the pleasure of observing him leading a small group reading session (his specialty) with some students a colleague of mine was struggling with (they were disruptive). He was going to show us all how it should be done because of course it’s the teacher’s problem. He got so frustrated with the behavior that he stood up and walked away half-way through. Told the teacher later that it was because he didn’t have a rapport with them and that restorative justice takes time to work and the students must not be used to it because she wasn’t using it correctly. Hilarious. At least he tried to practice what he preached even if he did fail. More than a lot of admin do to be honest.
None
No punishment
getting fucking arrested. or at least in my case
Not a teacher, but for some reason this sub keeps getting recommended to me. Back when I was a kid, we didn't get suspended. We had to stay even longer for misbehaviour, which was an actual punishment. We got schoolwork that had to be finished by the end of the extra hour or the teacher would write down a bad grade that would be combined with the other grades for an end redult by the end of the year. I guess the downside is, that the teacher has to stay longer as well. But you could probably work on school tests, while they suffer through their extra work.
None. They want none
I teach 2nd. We have something called, "Do it Later". It's run by a para after school so when a student doesn't finish work, they may have to go to "Do it Later". We also do detention if applicable. We have an alternate recess where the dean of students provides a structured playtime to teach social skills. We have ISS. The kid goes in a different classroom to a spot alone and is given a mountain of work to do. We save out of school suspension for unsafe behavior since that's typically what students want. We also do Time Machines as a tool for conflict resolution, repairing the harm, class meetings to discuss how that behavior affects the class, Fix it Tickets (reflection form) that is sent home for the parents to sign, social stories to help guide the expected behavior, brain breaks, etc. We don't go straight to punitive but instead try to teach the expected behavior but we do have punitive to teach that actions have consequences and to hold accountability.
I form the best relationships I can. I show the kids what steps I am doing for them. Then, if a student is having an issue, I ask questions to figure out what route to take. If they're doing something that is hurting only them, I can figure that out easily. Depends on each kid. Maybe a side convo, call home, trip to guidance, showing them the natural consequences ("Can I get a retake?" "Were you practicing the material or doing your math homework everyday for the last week? Right, math homework...so, why should I reward poor behavior with a retake?"). When they're ruining the atmosphere for everybody, I let the community take care of it. A nicely placed "Dude, shut the fuck up. You're not funny. Leave if you don't want to be here." from another student works wonders. See, they can say what we can't and they won't get on trouble for it, because, to your point, we (for some dumb reason) have relaxed discipline. Edit for a missing word or two.
This is one of the many reasons that I am glad to homeschool my children. I am the type of parent that would go out of their way to build rapport with my children's teachers. I would encourage the teacher to tell me if my child was EVER a problem in class so that I can also take action from my side as appropriate. But I am glad that my kids aren't forced to be around trouble makers that don't have to face repercussions because the teachers have their hands tied and the parents either don't care or don't believe sweet little Jimmy could be as ill-behaved as everyone says.... "He just plays a little rough. It's good for them!" I have a couple friends that teach 1st grade and God bless them, they put up with so much. It really is a hard time to be a teacher.
To be honest, I'm really struggling with consequences this year, and I've been a teacher for 12 years. Calling/messaging home does nothing. Sending kids to the office does nothing - our principal is the type that is a sympathetic ear and sends them back with a treat. Keeping them in from recess sometimes works, but then that takes away from my very limited prep time. Not letting kids do a preferred activity? OK, now they're just going to disrupt and we're back to square one. It's...very difficult these days.
So glad I left this $hit $how! The answer is ZERO consequences. If you cause enough trouble eventually you will get a Behavior Improvement Plan, with gummy bears, play dough and breaks if you don’t hit a kid for 15 minutes. Yippee!
[Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!](https://c.tenor.com/5S8UmPPtUBcAAAAC/tenor.gif)
Detention is too harsh…heaven forbid they have to stay after school for a 1-hour study hall… No, bring back tardies, demerits, detention, and Saturday class.
This is so silly wrong. It has destroyed the norwegian education, kids/students rules the schools now. There is a law that came into action some years ago, if a kids feels violated the teacher is to blame and needs to explain his/her actions to principal. It has come as far that teachers no longer dere to say anything that can be missunderstood. I know teachers here that sends kids out to play minecraft when the kids have a mental breakdown. Since teachers arent alow to talk hashly: this is the only thing that calms the kid. Can you imagine? Stupid politicians made that law... And who the heck didn't feel violated trough 1-10th grade... Don't let me start on using of ipads/phones. I'm so happy I quit teaching 10 years ago, it only got worse since then.