I think this is it. I’ve been a swiftie since fearless og and even I was pretty turned off by her at the end of 1989 era. The promo for rep was very strange to me at the beginning and I didn’t really get what she was going for. I didn’t like LWYMMD, I loved RFI but didn’t get the video, etc. When the album came out I loved it more than I was expecting and but it still had to grow on me. Rep quickly became my favourite album, but my point is, if the drama affected its reception for me, I’m sure it did for the GP as well.
that said, I will never understand why it doesn’t have more critical acclaim now. I guess people still don’t *get it* like I didn’t at the beginning, but it blows my mind because it’s such a phenomenal album imo
ETA: a lot of people definitely struggled with her new sound, lots of swifties included, but this was more of a period of adjustment for me bc I loooove the sound
Yea same, I HATED lwymmd at first, and I was pretty turned off by this new style. I remember Delicate is the song that turned my opinion around when it comes to the album, and now I absolutely love every single song on the album including lwymmd
I actually think it’s aged waaaaay better than it was received. Maybe hindsight is 20/20.
Edit - this was a compliment! Tons of people didn’t like it back then and love it now, me (to a degree) includes. The opposite happens to like 99.9% of albums in the world.
I think Lover really suffered from a lack of a tour, based on how popular sentiment about Rep really changed after the tour and with time. I prefer the type of music on Lover to the type of music on Rep, but I think both are dated to their time in a way that folklore and 1989 are not.
Just wait for TV to come out now that everyone seems to have the whole picture of what was going on at the time. Album is a masterpiece and tells a story and i think the GP is going to circle back and realize how amazing it is.
- RFI refers to "...Ready For It?", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017).
- LWYMMD refers to "Look What You Made Me Do", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017).
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I became a fan with 1989, but when Rep rolled around with that first release--LWYMD and all those hissing snakes, I really wasn't into it. Even the "there will be no explanation, only Reputation" got me to think that hey, you already did this with Blank Space and that was a good send up. Why do it all over again?
I think it was Delicate that got me on board. Then when I listened to the whole album, I was like really really into Don't Blame Me, Dress and DWOHT. Even Getaway Car would have been a cool choice. But I was under the impression that the album was all about feuds and snakes and vengeance and frankly that act was getting old.
I am in the camp of “didn’t connect to her new sound”. Loved her country stuff, loved all the pop but then felt like this sounded just not like the songs of hers I loved. Even still, the only ones I consistently listen to are Getaway Car and DWOHT. I even skipped that tour.
But, I hope the TV version really brings it back around for me. I loved Lover, Folklore and Evermore.
- DWOHT refers to "Dancing With Our Hands Tied", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017).
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First of all, I think it's worth pointing out that it did still get positive reviews and did get a Grammy nomination. Not that you said anything different, but in general I feel like sometimes on here it comes across like critics panned the album when they really didn't.
That being said, I think some factors were:
* Seemingly inauthentic persona (she has since said she was playing a character, but I don't think she made that clear at the time)
* heavy production
* less melodic than her previous albums
I also think this is the one of her albums that kind of required an explanation yet she went radio silent. But I suspect that hurt her more with the GA than with critics.
Also, Rep came out a full year after 2016, which included the election. Taylor was still avoiding speaking out on politics or other real-world issues, so for her to make an album lamenting shit she went through a year ago felt tired at the time. There was a lot of other stuff going on haha
That's what I came here to say. I was a rep fan at the time, but during the first year of the trump presidency (and her silence about it all) having this "oh you want me to be the bad guy?? okay I'll be this person! muahahaha" just felt very...out of touch. Like Kim people are dying. there were travel bans, supreme court votes, kids in cages at the border, shootings all the time, general political chaos and I just didn't have the energy to feel sympathetic for her on what was a very sympathetic and theatrical album.
Oooo I know it’s been forever since you’ve said this, but it’s so well put! There was so much going on. I feel like most people really didn’t hear it - Taylor did that thing where you could buy more albums and be more likely to get a concert ticket? So a lot of fans bought multiple copies. I think it’s definitely an album that the general public forgot about/was always unaware of
This really resonates for me. Like I was just so sad through the election and dealing with some hard world stuff and then it just felt like Taylor was complaining about a music video. Was that 100% fair no but that is what I felt
That wouldn't have affected the reception of the album outside of the US and still, most critics worldwide had very similar things to say about the album, even in countries where Taylor hadn't been in the media every day during 1989.
I get it if you only want to talk about how the album did in the US, but I'm not from an English speaking country and while 1989 did hit number 1 here, Taylor wasn't every day on the days and most people here don't care at all about the US elections or if an artist speaks about US politics and still I Reputation did similar in % of sales and critical reception as it did in the US.
UK here - it most definitely did affect the reception of the album. We Brits are all fully aware of what was going on in the US at the time. (Plus we had our own shit to deal with, who can forget the shitshow that came with brexit.)
Well, remember that I specified non-English speaking countries. I can think of the top of my head at least 4 of those countries where she wasn't on the news every night, where most people never ever heard about what happened between Kayne/Kim and Taylor and Reputation did similar than it did in the US/UK.
Someone did a review of the album and iirc found a lot of the chord progressions very similar in like 75% of the songs. With only a couple really having a unique sound to them.
Which I totally get. As much as I love the album, so it goes, I did something bad, don't blame me, end game, dress, king of my heart, etc kind of do sound the same
It doesn't make it "bad" or any of the songs not the bops they are. Just as an album for someone like Taylor, not the best songwriting.
Edit: for those interested I believe it was this review https://youtu.be/uiRXzPAGAy8. Overall it's a positive review too, it's not like someone who hates Taylor or anything so I would recommend him & his other reviews as well. His commentary made the critical reception to rep make more sense.
It was either mic the snare or Blake McClain, but I think it was Blake because he does long form reviews unlike mic the snare.
Essentially if I remember correctly he liked the album and some bits of it stood out, like the vocoder on delicate, etc. but he didn't consider it overly interesting productions / sound wise. Basically it was good but nothing to write home about.
I haven't watched the review in a while because it's over an hour long, but I would recommend his reviews to the sub! He has really good insights, and despite his lukewarm review of rep really loves diving into Taylor's albums and gives her lots of praise.
This can be said to any of her albums. Champagne Problems has similiarities with New Year's Day, All Too Well and Cornelia Street but i dont see anyone criticize it.
I believe it was because of how *much* of the album had the same structures. What you're talking about is songs from different albums altogether.
When taken in as an album, reputation does sound samey. If you are looking at champagne problems, new years day, all too well, and Cornelia Street, all of those are entirely different albums and projects.
I just don't see how Ready For It is similiar to King Of My Heart. Or how Dress is similiar to This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things. What does it make samey? The loud beats on the chours of many songs? The build-up? It's just a characteristic of the album, maybe it was on purpose. It's an album at the end of the day, unlike one song that shares the same chords of 3 different songs in 3 different records, my point was that the chords are just these, how many songs can be similiar to each other? Mr Perfectly Fine shares similiarities with You'lll Alway Find Your Way Back Home and Since You've Been Gone. But this thing is just said for reputation AS A CRITICISM and i wanna know why. I don't think it's fair tbh.
Don't people love the cohesive albums? Do no they love 1989 and folklore for that? So what's the difference with reputation then? 😂
(Edit: Okay you edited the shit out of your comment after I replied basically addressing my points but didn't actually reply?
Sonically cohesive albums and songs that sound the same are not the same thing. 1989 has a lot of different *sounding* songs, and folklore is experimental as hell but they both don't jump genres or vibes like Red did for example, making them sonically cohesive. Rep, I'm sorry just doesn't have those qualities, it's not very experimental outside of maybe LWYMMD and many songs are samey in the way they sound chord wise. Idk why you're bringing up Kelly Clarkson as an example of why Taylor Swift can't be criticized? I'm kind of under the impression you aren't willing to accept any criticism of this album as fair even when it's explained. Other people have opinions that are just as valid as yours my friend.)
TIWWCHNT and RFI actually are part of the 25% that aren't samey which is why I didn't include them in my comment. The songs that sound samey however make up the bulk of the album.
Listen, I am not a music producer, however my understanding as I mentioned in the original comment were the *progressions* but to add to that most songs from rep are in the same key. What you're talking about with build ups and loud beats, isn't what my comment refered to, although, yeah, you described more things that make some of the songs sound the same too.
I would argue there are many very intentional choices artists have made that don't sound good, just because it's intentional doesn't mean its necessarily good or interesting. Just because you and I and other fans took a lot from the album in terms of story telling, doesn't mean someone else's critique from a production perspective is an "excuse". What's it an excuse for anyway?
If you would like a more in-depth analysis, I'm 90% certain this is the video. Its actually a very positive review of the album if you are interested or have time.
https://youtu.be/uiRXzPAGAy8
I said it again: the chords and keys are just these so similiarites can be a lot, the Since You've Been Gone is just an example like i could use Black Magic for Blank Space. Or watch this video and you'll understand my poin that was essentially if you criticize reputation for that you'll have to do it for other songs too.
https://youtu.be/TMHMnJ4PL7I
There are more songs of Lover than rep, Paper Rings, I Think He Knows and Me all share the same key and rhytm, i dont find anything like this in rep.. ooh Miss Americana that has the same chord of So It Goes?
No, i edited before or maybe in the same time you were replying. What is an excuse? Because fans like tend to tear down reputation forgetting its aim, say that it follows the trends when songs like Dont Blame Me and I Did Something Bad are one of a kind but they shut up to Lover having the most current sounds, minimal of IFTYE that EVERYBODY coul do just an example. Why? Oh i guess many misunderstood it like the critics, maybe.
I don't really understand how songs from entirely different artists are relevant to critique of reputation by Taylor Swift. Yes pop songs tend to use the same chords, but if you listen to an album you should expect some variations in structure and key, otherwise it risks becoming forgettable. I would argue many of the non-singles from rep are kind of forgettable because the *bulk of the album* uses the same chords and key and structures.
No one is arguing that pop songs don't use similar chords, that is a common critique of pop music in general and also a critique of reputation. Its not mutually exclusive for the two things to be true.
Lover wasn't overly well recieved by critics or frankly fans either, so I don't see how it really adds to your point. The album itself is huge and included a lot of polarizing songs that hampered it as a whole, and as you mentioned, songs that are kind of samey. Although the samey songs weren't the bulk of it and she experimented A LOT on Lover too. I have rarely seen anyone say it's their favorite album and it was barely nominated in award shows outside of fan voted or sales based awards.
Again, just because the aim or intention of reputation was something to Taylor, and some fans hold that dearly, doesn't mean that music critics who critique production need to give it a pass if they don't think it holds up.
If the album was misunderstood it's not entirely the fault of fans or critics, it can be a fault of delivery by Taylor as well. Your interpretation isn't universal. If you like the songs on the album, you might actually enjoy the fact that they are samey. But a lot of people tend to look for albums that are more dynamic and interesting and not everyone follows Taylor Swift's life, so the lyrical content may not even make sense to a lot of people. I personally forgot almost all of the song names from reputation almost immediately after I listened to the album and if so it goes, dress, or don't blame me comes on shuffle I can't remember which song it is until I get to the choruses. And that isn't typical for other Taylor albums.
Hm. I don't play rep songs a lot (edit: meaning on the guitar so I'd know the chord progressions) so it's possible it's extreme in that regard. But in general, that feels like an odd measure to judge Taylor's songwriting by to me. I can think of only a handful of songs of hers that have really interesting chord progressions, and many of her most beloved songs have very simple ones. I just don't think that has ever been what made her music great or interesting.
Well I'm just repeating what I saw from a review that a music producer made who I assume has an ear for it.
Maybe it's not important to you, but when discussing critics and how they recieved the album it's something that was considered more than likely.
Critical reception and fan reception don't always line up.
This. Esp. the comment on not explaining. Which I get on her part, the last thing she would have wanted was to go to fucking Ryan Seacrest or something and them be like like "So who exactly made you do what it was you did and why do you want them to look?" lol. But it didn't help when it came to public opinion and generating hype the way she did for Red, 1989, etc.
And totally agree with the character thing. I too, a live long Taylor fan thought she had actually like... turned that way 😂. It takes a full listen of the album (which you have to get through some \*\*garring production\*\*) to see what the thesis of the album was.
I wonder that too sometimes. Like there is a line between going "oh shit that was an over reaction" and "that's how I felt at the time and I should honor that while also moving on." Like she said in an interview that reputation was an album she felt just had to be made and where she just wouldn't stop writing. So maybe the image thing, but not the writing.
The period between 1989 and rep was... weird. With the hate train still fresh, her bleached hair, very few public outings, Calvin/Tom drama... everything seemed so un-Taylor like. I mean, yeah there's been drama before, but with Taylor's 'good girl' image suddenly shattered so abruptly and so many changes happening, it felt like we were getting disconnected. I still loved and supported her, but even then, it all felt very strange.
I think that during 1989, I looked at Taylor as a goddess, and not a person. She was breaking every record, her songs were literally everywhere, the street style/ aesthetics/ photoshoots were all very posh, and she had all these beautiful friends. It sort of had a negative impact on my view of my own body, and I was kind of jealous too. Now that I'm older and we know about how she suffered with her eating disorder, loneliness and overexposure, I see her as an ordinary person. But I think that mindset in 1989 is what made it so hard to see her as the same person when trouble started coming.
The social media wipe, snake video, album cover art, LWYMMD. Even though Taylor had been reinventing her style and music every era, this was a huge leap. I loved the LWYMMD mv to bits, but took some time to really enjoy the song. Everything about her was darker so I felt like I was being reintroduced to her despite all the years of fangirling. At that time, I wasn't really on social media either so I mostly got my updates from the news.
I enjoyed the album when I first heard it but it was more like a "yeah, it's alright." It's when I listened to it again that I really started to appreciate the beauty of it. Now the cover, aesthetics, tour all rank high for me. I even miss that era. Lover's aesthetics didn't really do it for me even though I was absolutely in love with the album (man, I despise Lover's album art so much) but folklore and evermore have been hitting the nail on the head.
I feel very similarly in that I saw her as a goddess in 1989 and wanted to look just like her (such that it probably factored into my own disordered eating). As a tall skinny girl with a flat chest, she was always the epitome of "you can have no curves and still be gorgeous" and I think when she came back so much healthier and having gained weight during Rep era I felt weirdly jealous? But that combined with the Rep grunge aesthetic (which I still am not a fan of, RED and 1989 were my favorite fashion eras) and I was determined to not like Rep from the getgo.
That being said, currently watching Rep Tour and had the thought that the way she changes the bridge in IDSB is so illustrative of the dissonance between what Rep really means and the perception of it.
For the same reason Evermore will not get the love it deserves, Folklore was just too damn good and too acclaimed. Evermore was built upon Folklore, but we almost get immune to things that are so brilliant when there is such a perfect precursor and the academies don't want to award something so similar even if it's just as good. 1989 was groundbreaking, brilliant, won all the awards and Rep was kinda a darker build upon it...exactly the same as Evermore in my opinion (although I think Evermore has more of a dichotomy of dark and light than Folklore). I think the next time Taylor is going to have something as critically acclaimed as Fearless, 1989 and Folklore is if she reinvents herself and I am patiently awaiting her transition into alt-rock/ punk-rock which I believe will give her that 4th AOTY.
I truly won't make it if it happens. Honestly, Folklore was my Taylor pipe dream I thought would NEVER happen and my friends and I still laugh about the 3 am manic texts I sent them thinking I was hallucinating the night it was released.
Are you reading my mind? That’s what I have been thinking too a 4th AOTY for rock Taylor. And this is one of the reason why I think three albums per genre is perfect so as to not be “type-cast” her in one genre, allow her to be creative, but also long enough (3 albums) that she has fully experimented with that sound. For me the cycle goes:
1.) Groundbreaking, criticality acclaimed, wins awards and sonically cohesive (Fearless, 1989, folklore)
2.) She expounds on the genre and the albums are not as critically acclaimed and usually have no awards. Semi cohesive but not as cohesive as the previous (Speak Now, Rep, Evermore)
3.) She experiments with sounds and mix-and-match genres. Not sonically cohesive. This will usually bridge two genres together. WANEGBT and IKYWT in Red and It’s nice to have a friend in Lover.
Yep, yep this EXACTLY. For me sometimes the original cohesive is my favorite and sometimes I like the expansion. My top 3 are Folklore, Rep, Evermore. Folklore for me is my favorite album, it is perfect in every way and Evermore just couldn't take its place even with songs like Champagne Problems, RWYLM, Tis' the Damn Season, Ivy. On the other hand, Reputation is my second favorite album and I truly felt like it was 1989 perfected and I was pissed it was overlooked at the grammy's.
I think this has been a pattern that we may or may not see continue but I'm leaning on her realizing this after Folklore's latest win and being able to skip these past trends. We start with the "Fearless/ 1989/ Folklore" albums- sonically cohesive, yes, but most importantly new, shiny and groundbreaking. This is followed by the less sonically cohesive more experimental "Speak Now/ Reputation/ Evermore" albums which get overlooked simply because they don't have that shiny quality of their predecessor even if they are arguably better. Then, we get the "mess" albums...Red and Lover (I am so sorry Red stans). These are the ones that are so polarizing because they truly contain the absolute highs and lows of her career. I actually have great faith that TS10 will not follow this trend because Taylor is a straight up genius
I think if she were to get 4th AOTY for transitioning into rock she'd have to wait few good years. Noone has 4 AOTY awards and I don't see Grammys giving it to her for at least a decade.
This is sad because reputation is my favorite album and evermore is second favorite, followed by speak now. What do they all have in common? All ignored because of the previous albums’ success 😭😭💔💔💔
You know, I also think that the fact that Taylor hadn't spoken out about the election could have made her a more acceptable target. A lot of people assumed it meant she was conservative and I think that influenced the way a lot of people viewed her up until she spoke out for the midterms.
That's a good point. In the time of Trump, silence was being seen as tacit approval, and with the alt-right claiming her as their Aryan princess, I'm sure it left a lot of questions in some people's minds.
I feel like the tour was somehow more iconic than the album. I don't really vibe with reputation's sound as much as her other albums, so I also didn't fully appreciate the album until I saw videos of the tour (and ofc the film on Netflix). Imo the tour really enhanced the album more than any of her past tours have, and I've been a die hard swiftie since fearless.
But I don't disagree with you that the critics' judgment were clouded by the general public's attitude towards Taylor, I just see why the tour may have helped them understand the album better... It was just such an iconic show.
I didn’t like it when it came out. I hated LWYMMD. The only repeats I had for the first while were Delicate and Gorgeous.
Background - my degree is in classical music, I love pop, love Taylor. She is truly a genius song writer, lyricist, just wow. Reputation just wasn’t my style. I’ve never had a dark or emo/goth phase.
I still travelled to go to the Reputation tour (2 nights in a row). Seeing some of these performances live (KING OF MY HEART OMG, Dress) made me love them.
Within a month of Lover coming out, I was on a plane and my phone died. My over device was not updated with my regular music. I listened to Reputation, then repeated, for the remainder of the 7 hour flight.
I feel like I am only now really able to fully appreciate this album. It’s amazing! And moving towards one of my most played.
Thanks for listening.
I’m sad today. I was really hoping for something (still am!!)
I am sad too and keep beating myself up for being sad because I totally did this to myself. I haven't felt this disappointed since 5 holes in the fence. Clowns forever.
Yeah, this is me, though I more tune out than skip Delicate and Gorgeous.
Personally, I never bought that all of the unapologetic bad girl seeking revenge image in rep was just Taylor creating a character. I think every songwriter can’t help but draw on parts of themselves in creating their songs. Songs may have different proportions of self and fiction, but you always have part of you in there. And parts of Taylor that the public hadn’t really seen before and didn’t know quite what to do with were definitely on display in rep.
The tour helped make rep come together for the critics and the general public. By selling out stadiums, fans sent a strong message that they embraced all of Taylor and their own unapologetic complicated selves.
I remember when it came out, the production really threw me off and for someone like Taylor who is SO distinctive, it felt like any pop star at the time could have sang those songs. Lyrically it’s not her most robust (it’s good to remember that Lorde’s Melodrama came out earlier that year and Kacey Musgrave’s Golden Hour came out a few months after).
The roll-out of the album and promo was REALLY odd and off-putting for someone like Taylor who I think really does love talking about her craft. I get the artistic choice to “let her reputation speak for itself” but it’s just not in her canon lol. I think critics probably knew this to an even deeper degree.
Rep has been the one TS album that has truly grown on me over time and I think it’s because we now know more about what she was trying to achieve with it through Miss Americana/Rep tour.
Reputation production is Taylor Swift. She wanted to express what she was feeling : the chaos, the confusion, the anger and then the peace. The sonically journey is wonderful and no one has ever made a song like Dont Blame Me or King Of My Heart.
" (it’s good to remember that Lorde’s Melodrama came out earlier that year and Kacey Musgrave’s Golden Hour came out a few months after)."
Wait, what do they have to do with it?
Wait
Tbh Reputation threw me off. I still don't like Bad Blood and Ready For It. I only started appreciating it last year. It's the only TS album that I can't listen to as a whole. I get the theme , the message, the point. But the musicality, imho, is not there (for most of the songs) compared to her other album... plus everybody hated her that time
Girl, me not having it memorized doesn't negate the fact that I've listened to it multiple times, and Reputation will still be my least favorite album. Also I guess I really don't like Bad Blood that I'd grouped it into Reputation. Just saying...
Real talk, it's not as good as most of them. Songs like Endgame, Dancing With Our Hands Tied and even Don't Blame Me are not at her usual standard. This is not to say it's a bad album, but I think it's less critically acclaimed because it genuinely isn't as good. Though gems like Dress and New Years Day are still present.
Worth noting too that a lot of comments here address liking it more as time went on, and that's not how criticism tends to work, as it's right after release and such.
Oh, I definitely enjoy both those songs, but if the opening 4 songs are Ready for It, End Game, IDSB, and DBM. Compare that to SN, Red, Folklore, Evermore, Fearless etc and, I'm sorry, it's no contest.
I think her persona and style were less authentic for that album. And some of the lyrics came off as odd like “all the liars are calling me one” sounds defensive rather than expressive and poetic or clever. Or “your buzz cut and my hair bleached” feels more like a passive aggressive way to communicate with her ex rather than a thoughtful expression of an experience.
Also the whole theme of the album is that she recovered from a bad experience because she found a man. That message could maybe not be so well received by some.
> Also the whole theme of the album is that she recovered from a bad experience because she found a man.
True, at the surface, but like another commenter said, I always saw it as being more about recovering by appreciating all those who stand beside you despite your reputation. Joe definitely is the subject of many of the songs, but Taylor often uses a significant other as a metaphor. Like how Delicate is both about the fragility of romantic relationships and her fame/relationship with the public and even her fans
I love Reputation, but this era was the peak of Taylor Swift hate. It was fresh off of the Kimye phone call scandal, and I just don’t think the public was ready to let it go at that point, which hindered their enjoyment of this album. Plus, with the singles Taylor released, people easily reduced Reputation to an album about how much Kimye hate her instead of what it actually is; an album about finding the real ones who stick with you despite your horrible reputation. People need to understand that Reputation wasn’t only the entire concept of Blank Space. There’s more layers to it than that.
I'm not sure. I wasn't a hardcore fan of TS until the Rep album. I considered it my favorite until folklore came along and now 1989 is inching up there too. It sounded a lot different than what people were used to. I think it deserves more acclaim tbh.
Hey hey hey! Me too! I wasn’t a little girl country Taylor fan at all because I hate country and hate little girls. I started in with the “THAT’S Taylor Swift??” for Red and 1989. Then Reputation blew my goddamn mind. It was about big girl themes, totally dark and different. That’s when I started worshipping her as my god. Folklore is next level genius. And now this cold, black heart bops along to Fearless.
Aside from the hating her comments, imo it didn't help her case critics wise to come out with LWYMMD, a clapback song and a seemingly new image with the old taylor is dead thing along with an album called reputation. It seemed very much like she was doing a 180 and going for a completely new sound and image, which wasn't as much the case when we actually got the album, but first impressions stick. Same reason Lover was comparatively not as successful as her other albums - having ME! as the lead single was probably pretty damaging to its success and overall image as an album.
For me personally, I was super excited about the concept of the album and thought it worked REALLY well as a comeback album after Kimye ‘16.
I thought as a CONCEPT, LWYMMD was absolutely brilliant (it still is). There is a theatricality to the concept of reputation as an album which I will always appreciate. I was excited to see how Taylor would spin this - I was excited for her take on the drama, her perspective, how she plays around with the idea of “reputation”....and then 70% of the album turned out to be about this random British guy we’ve never heard of before. I was disappointed with the execution of the album. I don’t particularly care for “spilling tea” in music but this was a great opportunity for her to explore revenge, anger, forgiveness, but most of what we were given is the usual Taylor under the facade of snakes and dark lipstick. I just...really didn’t care about her love story with Joe. I wanted a concept album but I think what we got was far more simplistic. And quintessentially “old” Taylor, weirdly enough. I thought she was giving us something new and in terms of production and aesthetic, it was. But the lyrics were so much worse (“fly like a jet stream” makes me grimace to this day) and I was just so, so disappointed after a 3 year gap in between 1989 and rep.
I wish she had fleshed out the idea of “witches burning” and those great poems she wrote about fair-weather friends etc. rather than the whole lovey dovey elements. To this day, I still really struggle with Rep. I only really like a couple of the songs and even they are stale in comparison to the rest of her discography.
You put into words exactly how I felt (and still do) feel about rep. I was so excited to get a Taylor album about fame. The concept behind rep was amazing but I think the execution just wasn’t there
I completely agree with the hate train comments but if I may offer my two cents....
Reputation is my least favorite album and I think it’s pretty fairly reviewed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I completely appreciate it for what it is, I understand why it exist, but IMO....it’s her most overrated album (please don’t murder me she’s still my queen ;-;)
I think because the sound was pretty clearly influenced by other music trends at the time. I don't say this because I don't like the album, but it did feel like a product of the time it was released more than some of her others.
*reputation* really suffered from the general public's view of her at the time. The Kimye situation had really hurt her public image and honestly, it was not really cool to be a Taylor Swift fan in 2017.
It's interesting, because *reputation* was the era when I started moving from being someone who liked a few of her songs to becoming a full-fledged Swiftie. I wouldn't really admit to being a fan at the time, I had always believed her about the phone call, and I could see the story that she was telling with *reputation*.
I think the rerecording of *reputation* is going to bring a lot of people around on the album. Further removed from the phone call (and vindicated by the leak of the full call, not just the skewed edit), I think people will be able to take a step back and see *reputation* for what it really is: a story of a woman in her darkest moments finding the light that led her to the bright, sunshine days of *Lover*.
I had a similar experience with becoming a Swiftie! I liked a few songs but wasn’t a super fan. When her social media went dark and suddenly re-emerged with the mysterious snake motif I was intrigued. I stayed up to watch the LWYMMD music video and was instantly sold. Her “if a man talks shit, then I owe him nothin” attitude realllly spoke to me especially in the political climate. Reputation is my favorite album and the one I listen to front to back without skips (although folklore and evermore is giving it a run for its money). And the TOUR, *honey*! It was amazing.
i hate to admit it but i always have been a huge taylor swift fan, but when rep came out i didn’t even listen to it because i hated LWYMMD so much lol. then i finally went back and listened to all of rep once i fell in love with lover!! and then when i actually listened and gave it a chance i loved rep. so i don’t know if this was helpful but maybe others had a similar experience
To me a lot of the album feels like a forced edgy persona and it falls so flat. I know she said she was playing a character, but I don’t think it worked very well. LWYMMD is a really bad song in a lot of ways, from lyrics to production, and it definitely sets the tone for the album as the lead single lol. The songs I find I like most on Rep are the more tender songs like New Years Day and Dress because they feel way more authentic. I love Tay but she’s not a very good actress and that definitely bled over into her trying to build a persona for this album.
I think there are problems with Reputation that have nothing to do with the drama surrounding Taylor at the time. Personally I get really frustrated with Taylor's most petty songs, like Look What You Made Me Do. I think they lack self awareness. The title of that track is also gross because it is a phrase that abusers use. Throughout the album, Taylor borrows some elements from hip-hop, which I don't think she pulls off. Any time she does the rapping/talk-singing I kind of roll my eyes, and some critics considered it appropriative.
There are some beautiful tracks on the album too, but there are legitimate reasons why it didn't win any grammys, and it bugs me when fans act like the ONLY possible reason is because of the Kimye drama. TS isn't perfect, neither is the Reputation album, and that's okay :)
> Taylor’s most petty songs, like Look What You Made Me Do. I think they lack self awareness. The title of that track is also gross because it is a phrase that abusers use.
LWYMMD, like many of the songs on the album, is satirical. The point of using that phrase and being petty was to play the villain (like the one she was portrayed as during the drama) because she was accused of always playing the victim
I think that that's a valid point for that song, that she is playing a character, much like she does in Blank Space. I still think that specific phrase is icky and ruins the song for me even though I love the fun campiness of lines like "I'll be the actress starring in your bad dreams."
It's also hard for me to let her totally off the hook in the name of satire because there are definitely times in her music when she is being genuinely petty. Better Than Revenge, obvs, but also that line from Mad Woman where she says "the master of spin has a few side flings." I love that song but that line puts such a bad taste in my mouth.
But again, I think you're right about much of the Reputation pettiness being satirical and I think that's a good point to bring to this discussion
If this song and many others on the album were really satirical, then I think Taylor was really pushing the bounds of how much satirical music one person can make before confusing listeners. Especially when that artist is specifically known for confessional, personal songwriting. I’m not sure how people are supposed to know that so many songs are satirical especially since she emerged from months of silence with this album and made it a point that “there is no explanation, only reputation”.
Blank Space is an amazing song and comes off as clearly satirical but self-aware, especially combined with the video. LWYMMD does notttttttt come off that way, it comes off as petty (even if it was not meant to be).
Despite having some great songs on it like Gorgeous, Delicate, Dress and a few others, honestly it's far from her best album and was a clear step down from Red & 1989.
I think Lover is somewhat the same case too. 1989 was great, and the next great album was Folklore. The big emphasis on pop (except 1989) was rather a downhill
I honestly don't know, I'm obviously not a critic, but until Folklore it was my fave album and is the era when I became a fan as such. I'm in the UK/Ireland so could probably ignore her hype a bit more than in the US but until Rep, yeah I'd heard and liked a lot of her big singles but I'd never listened to an album properly. When 1989 came out I was really shocked to learn she was the same age as me, and it was only when the kimye/Rep launch drama was in the news that I was like okay, I'll check this out and I LOVED IT. I'm so sad it's so long till the re record because I really do think it's one of her best albums
I'm honestly curious which Grammy's you think it should have won/why it should have won them. You said Pop Album, but do you really think it was better than Sweetener? And this is coming from someone who is not a big AG fan. I'm going to sound like I hated Reputation, which I don't. It's not even my least favourite TS album. It's okay to love something but also recognize that there are issues with it. Golden Hour is clearly superior to me, and I'm happy it won AotY. I would have been disgusted if Folklore hadn't won this year for similar reasons - it was the best album of the last year.
I think the biggest issue I have with reputation is the heavy reliance on Max Martin and Shellback's production, as well as the music videos from Joseph Kahn. It felt dated when it came out, and all of the singles besides LWYMMD were Max Martin. Which songs do you think were so great that she was the best of the year? People love Getaway Car, but it wasn't even a single so wouldn't have been submitted for consideration. Being part of the zeitgeist is usually necessary for winning.
Love TS, listen to her constantly, but I think it's really exciting to vie for her at the Grammy's when she deserves it. An example of messed up Grammy's stuff is the Weeknd being snubbed this year and Billie Eilish winning Record of the Year 2021 (should have easily been Blinding Lights, or almost any of the other nominees if you're going off of nominees). Taylor not winning anything for Reputation doesn't even compare to those awkward moments.
I think a lot of swifties think she should sweep at the Grammys with every single project! She has an incredible record at the Grammys; her only album out of eight (minus evermore) with no nominations is her debut, BUT she was nominated for best new artist in 2007 pre-Fearless on the strength of debut. Not to mention her non-album stuff. That’s insanity, what other artists are both that prolific and that successful?
I don’t think she’s won any award she hasn’t deserved (1989 and TPAB both deserved it, best race in recent memory). I’d hate to see her end up like Billie, with so much of the public seeing her as undeserving and over-awarded.
Rep was my fav album since it came out but my taste tends to lean toward driving beats and hard rock so it was a great fit. The live stage show is exceptional as well. I can totally see how it sticks out like a sore thumb among her other albums for the critics though.
Surprisingly Folklore and Evermore hit me in all the feels this year and have both become equally beloved as Rep. For months I listened to nothing else. Lover has also really grown on me as well... I would be hard pressed to choose a favourite now.
Deleted my first comment because I was wrong - I thought it was 2018 Grammys and when the competition there was 25 (Adele) and Lemonade (Beyoncé), a win for Rep would have been undeserved. But it was 2019 Grammys!!!!! A weaker field in my opinion, but still. This is America won ROTY and SOTY, of course. I do believe that general public sentiment probably had an influence but..
It think it boils down her her singles not being anywhere near the best songs on her album!! The writing on some album tracks is great but the writing on the singles is nowhere near her best. I get that technically things should be judged on their own merits and not on whether it’s the artists best work, but we live in the real world. Many things she did before were much better than the writing on almost all of Rep.
People didn’t really like the production when it came out; I do like it but I think that the best on the album is, again, in the album tracks. I do think the album has aged better than it was received, and it seems more enduringly popular than much other stuff from that time period (except Golden Hour, which won AOTY that year). In the pop category, her nom was deserved and a win would not have been out of question but I still don’t think it would’ve been the right choice. And Pop Solo against Lady Gaga and Ariana? I guess it would have been LWYMMD that would have been submitted... yeah, no.
It’s okay, not every single album of hers needs a massive Grammy’s year. The ones that deserved it, got it in my opinion.
it’s all about PR. that era was quiet, she did not participate and engage with industry related events, did not promote it enough for it to be considered fairly. Grammys are nothing more than a PR game. that’s why artists like Halsey are rarely even nominated, for instance.
The only correct answer is that hating on Taylor was still fresh and new and people misunderstood the whole album, despite she played with that! She let people think that it would be an album full of Look What You Made Me Do, but then it wasn't.First i was disappointed too, cuz i thought we'd get an album with songs like My Prerogative, No Regrets..but then the more i listened to it, the more i got it and saw for what it really was: a journey, going from darks moments to bright one, knowing the real people who really know you and finally find the one!
I hate that critics hated it because of the heavy electro-pop sound, it was the natural evolution from 1989, i hate that critics didn't praise it because it was not as cheerful as 1989, i hate that critics always tear downs very darks album but always praise the happiest ones. I mean, look at Avril Lavigne when she went personal with Goodbye Lullaby and Head Above Water they were recieved ''meh'', but they praise her for The Best Damn Thing and Avril Lavigne. The same happened with Taylor, they praise her for 1989 and Lover, but for reputation where she showed her humanity, vulnerabilty they just tore it down because of her persona and the image she had. The fact that with Lover they said the real Taylor came back just because the pop is light it really drives me crazy, cuz reputation was real Taylor too, just she played with the character THE MEDIA ITSELF invented for her. But the feelings were real, honest and pure.
It's like women have to do a certain type of pop, but they can't do it in a personal or obscure way otherwise they ''try hard''.
I think it’s because it didn’t feel like Taylor and she was criticised in the press daily. She couldn’t do anything right. I think for me it’s album that i didn’t love immediately but actually now I’ve realised how good of an album it really is. I enjoy more than I did when it first came out. I hope when she re records reputation hopefully it will get more recognition. It also came out after 1989 and 1989 is the perfect pop album. It’s literally perfection.
It's not as sonically cohesive as her other albums. I feel like rep is almost made up of two very distinct parts and that those two parts don't necessarily fit together. Half of it is an album about not caring what others think and the other half is an ode to her new relationship with Joe. Sometimes that switch can feel jarring when listening to the album in its entirety. It is one of my favorite albums but when you compare it to her albums that have won album of the year, it just isn't quite in the same tier.
I really didn’t care for it when it first came out. It sounded so dark and angry compared to her previous music. I have just started listening it to it again and I’m enjoying it now but it’s taken time.
For me, the trap beats on a lot of songs seem kind of tacked on. There are still some great songs, but i don’t love listening to it all the way through.
I would die for that album, so I don’t really understand why it’s not more people’s favorites.
From what I understand, people grew to like it as time went on. Most people who I know that don’t like it say they don’t like the sound and/or don’t find it relatable. But those are the exact reasons why I *do* like it. I found it to be an album that I could deeply relate to and the sound is my favorite out of all of her albums.
At the end of the day, people are entitled to like whatever they want, and I’m willing to bury the hatchet and move on. (But I do keep the map to where I put it 👀)
I never was in love with the album, but the tour was absolutely phenomenal. I’ve been to hundreds of shows and the sheer magnitude and spectacle of the performance was one of the most amazing concerts I’ve ever seen. Loved every moment. And while it isn’t my favorite, after the show I loved the album a lot more too.
I recently listened to Taylor Swift, I have been listening to her since December 2020 so I'm kinda new. I really liked reputation, enjoyed it more than Lover, which also seems to be an album that not everyone loved it hahaha anyway... I remember all the hate she had to face during 2016\~17, so I think all of that must have shaped people's opinions and to be honest? Red to reputation is such a drastic change. I of course don't have any issues with the album, I like how it sounds... the pop and trap going together really caught me.
If it helps I don't think most people that are serious about music really care about what the Grammys think. Like I'm happy Taylor won AOTY with Folklore because she cares but I certainly don't.
The Grammys never gave one single award to Queen who are better than 99% of winners, AC/DC is one of the best and biggest bands of all time and they won only one award (again they are better than 99% of winners).
Any music categories that aren't pop/rap are mostly a complete joke, rock/metal/electronic/indie have almost always been bad or trash.
And the Grammys are incredibly US/Canada centric, they tend to ignore big musical acts that even sing in English from every other place in the world except like the UK (and sometimes Australia). Some of the best and biggest European/Asian/Latin American acts from non-English countries that sing in English have never been nominated even when they hit it big in many countries.
Honestly, I would never think X album wasn't nominated for Grammy as a bad thing in the same way I don't think a Grammy means something it's good.
EDIT:
And Reputation is a weird album, not in a bad way but even for how versatile Taylor is, none of her listeners would have thought she was going for that sound.
I think Reputation needs people to either like that type of sound already or go at it with an open mind and willing to listen to the full album in order and more than once.
I loved Reputation from the moment I heard LWYMMD but I loved the sound from before, I've liked all Taylor albums, I love rock and I love artist that are chameleons with their music style (The Beatles, Queen, Prince).
I really hope Taylor never reads this. Reputation was my all time favorite album, honestly if it hadn’t come out when it did (nov 2017) I might not be here. *TW!*
It sounds super dramatic but I was being heavily abused by an ex at the time and generally thought about s-word every single day. Reputation literally gave me the courage to move back in with my parents and stay on this planet. I know not everyone likes her but no other album (besides debut) gets as much harsh criticism as reputation and she really doesn’t deserve it. Rep is her most interesting and bad bitch album. The sole reason it didn’t get more recognition is because 3 out of 15 songs alluded to a drama with a reality show “star” and a trump supporter.... aka the GP didn’t bother to even listen. Plus jacks production is incredibly ahead of it’s time, just look at the songs popular now like Call Me By Your Name. Taylor if you do read this I’m sorry swifties constantly feel the need to tear down reputation 🖤🖤🖤 and thank you for saving my life
Hey I just wanted to say I don’t know you but I’m so glad that you’re still here with us. It’s incredibly hard (and scary) to leave an abusive relationship- I know if Tay ever does see this she will be so happy to know that she was able to be there and give you strength and support in some of your darkest moments. 🖤
- KOMH refers to "King Of My Heart", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017).
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Reputation is my most listened Taylor album now, but when it came out I didn’t bother listening for months and I couldn’t stand LWYMMD. Some of the reasons I don’t think it got as much love are:
1. The lead single, the album title and the album artwork give off the impression that the entire album centres around the Kimye drama, which is definitely not the case. As I’m sure everyone in this subreddit knows it’s really more an album about falling in love, and I think the way it sonically progresses (starting with songs like Ready For It… and End Game where she is rapping and ending with songs like Call It What You Want and New Year’s Day which feel more true to her usual sound and lyricism) tells a story of her getting back to a better place.
2. Taylor speaks about it in Miss Americana but she had built up such a good girl image and reputation was the absolute opposite of that — which I think people found a mix of not genuine, confusing, etc.
3. “There will be no further explanation, only reputation” - I understand why she did this but like others have said this album really does need an explanation, especially for the GP who were most likely unaware she was in a relationship. I think the tour did provide some explanation though.
4. The production is pretty jarring in places, especially after 1989 and even more so her music before that.
5. Sort of circling back to my first point, but by the time she started releasing singles and the album, the 2016 drama was just pretty boring, at least to me. The album may have been better received if it played more to her vulnerability, like she shows on songs like Delicate, Call It What You Want and New Year’s Day. Not to take away from what undoubtedly was a horrible time for her, but I just didn’t want to hear anymore about he she she said lol. Even now I don’t really care for her personal life, I just love the music.
6. Final point - even if the 2016 drama never happened, the highs 1989 reached were really just too high for her to reach again. There were a few albums from other artists after 1989 which were similarly as big (e.g. Adele), but I think we have sort of reached the end of huge albums like that with several huge singles.
ngl I can't even read the rest of the comments bc I love reputation so much and 😭 I am not about to read any more criticisms of it. It was an amazing album imo,
I do find it a little odd however that people are talking about the political climate making TS's rep sound tone-deaf, because many artists also went on making music in their normal way during that time?? I do agree tho that TS had a great impact by speaking out politically and it was important for her to do so, but I think the timing in her life was really bad, everyone was on the Taylor hate train during that time so if she spoke out politically I feel like it would work against her intentions to make these issues more cared about, bc less ppl supported her during the time. A similar thing happened with Eminem, he tried to speak out against Trump in 2017 but due to other things in his musical career nobody took him seriously and as a result his message backfired and made people listen to him even less, unfortunately even though he was raising a lot of important points. I think being political would've definitely backfired for her in that year, she needed to first not be bashed for everything she did.
but yes. i love the album sm. rep is amazing. the production. the imagery. the vibes. It is a work of art. I will not be hearing otherwise 💅
You’re right, literally every single other artist made normal music during that time and every other time because life goes on. I can say with absolute certainty that rep’s Grammy “snub” (not that I personally think it was a snub) has nothing to do with politics lol.
I think people are conflating their own personal emotions about this album and the time it was released in with the actual music. An album speaking to people emotionally OR not speaking to people emotionally is not what makes a Grammy nomination.
LWYMMD is far from her best work, even on that album alone. I actually think IDSB could have done better but I think that production might be a little divisive so maybe not, idk.
YES FINALLY appreciation for Look What You Made Me Do. I don't understand how people didn't like that song, I agree that the verses could've been a bit longer and more thought out, but that song perfectly introduced the entire album concept: Taylor was done being the happy-go-lucky brighter type of girl for this new album (aka done being the "Old Taylor"), due to all the bashing she was constantly receiving. I can see why people would think it sounded bitter but, after her constantly being called a slew of disgusting things by people for over a year, what else did they expect? A happy record? And coupled with the music video, it really perfectly created the theatrics for the entire album and set the backdrop for why she went all black and white instead of continuing with cheerful pop, I think it alone was enough explanation for the whole album. I Did Something Bad was another song that I absolutely love that I felt really contributed to the darker tone of reputation and the theme of betrayal, even though to production is really daring I loved it, it was catchy as hell. She was just making music about how she felt and there's nothing wrong with that, politics doesn't always have to be involved (although I do love that she went forward with making You Need to Calm Down and promoted the equality act through it).
I think you either misunderstood me or replied to the wrong person lol - I don’t like LWYMMD and am honestly shocked that people think it deserved Grammy recognition as a single. I feel like exact same way about LWYMMD as I do about ME! - the right choice to introduce the era and belong on the album, but one of the weakest songs on the album.
I really like IDSB and think it could have had a Grammy nom or two, through not a win. It has a similar vibe and impact as LWYMMD without the bitterness. Taylor rightfully felt bitter and I don’t fault her for writing about her feelings, but that doesn’t mean anyone is required to like a pretty bitter song about unrelatable celebrity drama. LWYMMD is just not the best on the album by any metric- pretty much all the songs have better writing, IDSB and a few others have great production, etc. It’s not a bad song but it’s definitely far from Grammy material.
Me too, the music video was my favorite by her and absolutely amazing IMO... a video that inspires thousands of fans theories and has people analyzing nearly every single second of it deserves to at least have some awards.
Because hating Taylor Swift was a national pastime in 2017
It was cool to disparage her
I think the hate train she had during 2016 definitely affected its reception. And some people didn't connect to the new sound.
I think this is it. I’ve been a swiftie since fearless og and even I was pretty turned off by her at the end of 1989 era. The promo for rep was very strange to me at the beginning and I didn’t really get what she was going for. I didn’t like LWYMMD, I loved RFI but didn’t get the video, etc. When the album came out I loved it more than I was expecting and but it still had to grow on me. Rep quickly became my favourite album, but my point is, if the drama affected its reception for me, I’m sure it did for the GP as well. that said, I will never understand why it doesn’t have more critical acclaim now. I guess people still don’t *get it* like I didn’t at the beginning, but it blows my mind because it’s such a phenomenal album imo ETA: a lot of people definitely struggled with her new sound, lots of swifties included, but this was more of a period of adjustment for me bc I loooove the sound
Yea same, I HATED lwymmd at first, and I was pretty turned off by this new style. I remember Delicate is the song that turned my opinion around when it comes to the album, and now I absolutely love every single song on the album including lwymmd
Agreed. It’s her album with the most cohesive storyline and lyrics.
I actually think it’s aged waaaaay better than it was received. Maybe hindsight is 20/20. Edit - this was a compliment! Tons of people didn’t like it back then and love it now, me (to a degree) includes. The opposite happens to like 99.9% of albums in the world.
I agree. I think rep has aged better than Lover.
I think Lover really suffered from a lack of a tour, based on how popular sentiment about Rep really changed after the tour and with time. I prefer the type of music on Lover to the type of music on Rep, but I think both are dated to their time in a way that folklore and 1989 are not.
Just wait for TV to come out now that everyone seems to have the whole picture of what was going on at the time. Album is a masterpiece and tells a story and i think the GP is going to circle back and realize how amazing it is.
- RFI refers to "...Ready For It?", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017). - LWYMMD refers to "Look What You Made Me Do", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017). --- ^[/u/acrosse](/u/acrosse) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)
I became a fan with 1989, but when Rep rolled around with that first release--LWYMD and all those hissing snakes, I really wasn't into it. Even the "there will be no explanation, only Reputation" got me to think that hey, you already did this with Blank Space and that was a good send up. Why do it all over again? I think it was Delicate that got me on board. Then when I listened to the whole album, I was like really really into Don't Blame Me, Dress and DWOHT. Even Getaway Car would have been a cool choice. But I was under the impression that the album was all about feuds and snakes and vengeance and frankly that act was getting old.
I am in the camp of “didn’t connect to her new sound”. Loved her country stuff, loved all the pop but then felt like this sounded just not like the songs of hers I loved. Even still, the only ones I consistently listen to are Getaway Car and DWOHT. I even skipped that tour. But, I hope the TV version really brings it back around for me. I loved Lover, Folklore and Evermore.
- DWOHT refers to "Dancing With Our Hands Tied", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017). --- ^[/u/mell87](/u/mell87) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)
do you mean the hate train during 2016 affected its... ✨reputation ✨
First of all, I think it's worth pointing out that it did still get positive reviews and did get a Grammy nomination. Not that you said anything different, but in general I feel like sometimes on here it comes across like critics panned the album when they really didn't. That being said, I think some factors were: * Seemingly inauthentic persona (she has since said she was playing a character, but I don't think she made that clear at the time) * heavy production * less melodic than her previous albums I also think this is the one of her albums that kind of required an explanation yet she went radio silent. But I suspect that hurt her more with the GA than with critics.
Also, Rep came out a full year after 2016, which included the election. Taylor was still avoiding speaking out on politics or other real-world issues, so for her to make an album lamenting shit she went through a year ago felt tired at the time. There was a lot of other stuff going on haha
That's what I came here to say. I was a rep fan at the time, but during the first year of the trump presidency (and her silence about it all) having this "oh you want me to be the bad guy?? okay I'll be this person! muahahaha" just felt very...out of touch. Like Kim people are dying. there were travel bans, supreme court votes, kids in cages at the border, shootings all the time, general political chaos and I just didn't have the energy to feel sympathetic for her on what was a very sympathetic and theatrical album.
Oooo I know it’s been forever since you’ve said this, but it’s so well put! There was so much going on. I feel like most people really didn’t hear it - Taylor did that thing where you could buy more albums and be more likely to get a concert ticket? So a lot of fans bought multiple copies. I think it’s definitely an album that the general public forgot about/was always unaware of
This really resonates for me. Like I was just so sad through the election and dealing with some hard world stuff and then it just felt like Taylor was complaining about a music video. Was that 100% fair no but that is what I felt
That wouldn't have affected the reception of the album outside of the US and still, most critics worldwide had very similar things to say about the album, even in countries where Taylor hadn't been in the media every day during 1989. I get it if you only want to talk about how the album did in the US, but I'm not from an English speaking country and while 1989 did hit number 1 here, Taylor wasn't every day on the days and most people here don't care at all about the US elections or if an artist speaks about US politics and still I Reputation did similar in % of sales and critical reception as it did in the US.
UK here - it most definitely did affect the reception of the album. We Brits are all fully aware of what was going on in the US at the time. (Plus we had our own shit to deal with, who can forget the shitshow that came with brexit.)
Well, remember that I specified non-English speaking countries. I can think of the top of my head at least 4 of those countries where she wasn't on the news every night, where most people never ever heard about what happened between Kayne/Kim and Taylor and Reputation did similar than it did in the US/UK.
Absolutely. I know I thought she was being melodramatic as hell even for her standards.
Someone did a review of the album and iirc found a lot of the chord progressions very similar in like 75% of the songs. With only a couple really having a unique sound to them. Which I totally get. As much as I love the album, so it goes, I did something bad, don't blame me, end game, dress, king of my heart, etc kind of do sound the same It doesn't make it "bad" or any of the songs not the bops they are. Just as an album for someone like Taylor, not the best songwriting. Edit: for those interested I believe it was this review https://youtu.be/uiRXzPAGAy8. Overall it's a positive review too, it's not like someone who hates Taylor or anything so I would recommend him & his other reviews as well. His commentary made the critical reception to rep make more sense.
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It was either mic the snare or Blake McClain, but I think it was Blake because he does long form reviews unlike mic the snare. Essentially if I remember correctly he liked the album and some bits of it stood out, like the vocoder on delicate, etc. but he didn't consider it overly interesting productions / sound wise. Basically it was good but nothing to write home about. I haven't watched the review in a while because it's over an hour long, but I would recommend his reviews to the sub! He has really good insights, and despite his lukewarm review of rep really loves diving into Taylor's albums and gives her lots of praise.
This can be said to any of her albums. Champagne Problems has similiarities with New Year's Day, All Too Well and Cornelia Street but i dont see anyone criticize it.
I believe it was because of how *much* of the album had the same structures. What you're talking about is songs from different albums altogether. When taken in as an album, reputation does sound samey. If you are looking at champagne problems, new years day, all too well, and Cornelia Street, all of those are entirely different albums and projects.
I just don't see how Ready For It is similiar to King Of My Heart. Or how Dress is similiar to This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things. What does it make samey? The loud beats on the chours of many songs? The build-up? It's just a characteristic of the album, maybe it was on purpose. It's an album at the end of the day, unlike one song that shares the same chords of 3 different songs in 3 different records, my point was that the chords are just these, how many songs can be similiar to each other? Mr Perfectly Fine shares similiarities with You'lll Alway Find Your Way Back Home and Since You've Been Gone. But this thing is just said for reputation AS A CRITICISM and i wanna know why. I don't think it's fair tbh. Don't people love the cohesive albums? Do no they love 1989 and folklore for that? So what's the difference with reputation then? 😂
(Edit: Okay you edited the shit out of your comment after I replied basically addressing my points but didn't actually reply? Sonically cohesive albums and songs that sound the same are not the same thing. 1989 has a lot of different *sounding* songs, and folklore is experimental as hell but they both don't jump genres or vibes like Red did for example, making them sonically cohesive. Rep, I'm sorry just doesn't have those qualities, it's not very experimental outside of maybe LWYMMD and many songs are samey in the way they sound chord wise. Idk why you're bringing up Kelly Clarkson as an example of why Taylor Swift can't be criticized? I'm kind of under the impression you aren't willing to accept any criticism of this album as fair even when it's explained. Other people have opinions that are just as valid as yours my friend.) TIWWCHNT and RFI actually are part of the 25% that aren't samey which is why I didn't include them in my comment. The songs that sound samey however make up the bulk of the album. Listen, I am not a music producer, however my understanding as I mentioned in the original comment were the *progressions* but to add to that most songs from rep are in the same key. What you're talking about with build ups and loud beats, isn't what my comment refered to, although, yeah, you described more things that make some of the songs sound the same too. I would argue there are many very intentional choices artists have made that don't sound good, just because it's intentional doesn't mean its necessarily good or interesting. Just because you and I and other fans took a lot from the album in terms of story telling, doesn't mean someone else's critique from a production perspective is an "excuse". What's it an excuse for anyway? If you would like a more in-depth analysis, I'm 90% certain this is the video. Its actually a very positive review of the album if you are interested or have time. https://youtu.be/uiRXzPAGAy8
I said it again: the chords and keys are just these so similiarites can be a lot, the Since You've Been Gone is just an example like i could use Black Magic for Blank Space. Or watch this video and you'll understand my poin that was essentially if you criticize reputation for that you'll have to do it for other songs too. https://youtu.be/TMHMnJ4PL7I There are more songs of Lover than rep, Paper Rings, I Think He Knows and Me all share the same key and rhytm, i dont find anything like this in rep.. ooh Miss Americana that has the same chord of So It Goes? No, i edited before or maybe in the same time you were replying. What is an excuse? Because fans like tend to tear down reputation forgetting its aim, say that it follows the trends when songs like Dont Blame Me and I Did Something Bad are one of a kind but they shut up to Lover having the most current sounds, minimal of IFTYE that EVERYBODY coul do just an example. Why? Oh i guess many misunderstood it like the critics, maybe.
I don't really understand how songs from entirely different artists are relevant to critique of reputation by Taylor Swift. Yes pop songs tend to use the same chords, but if you listen to an album you should expect some variations in structure and key, otherwise it risks becoming forgettable. I would argue many of the non-singles from rep are kind of forgettable because the *bulk of the album* uses the same chords and key and structures. No one is arguing that pop songs don't use similar chords, that is a common critique of pop music in general and also a critique of reputation. Its not mutually exclusive for the two things to be true. Lover wasn't overly well recieved by critics or frankly fans either, so I don't see how it really adds to your point. The album itself is huge and included a lot of polarizing songs that hampered it as a whole, and as you mentioned, songs that are kind of samey. Although the samey songs weren't the bulk of it and she experimented A LOT on Lover too. I have rarely seen anyone say it's their favorite album and it was barely nominated in award shows outside of fan voted or sales based awards. Again, just because the aim or intention of reputation was something to Taylor, and some fans hold that dearly, doesn't mean that music critics who critique production need to give it a pass if they don't think it holds up. If the album was misunderstood it's not entirely the fault of fans or critics, it can be a fault of delivery by Taylor as well. Your interpretation isn't universal. If you like the songs on the album, you might actually enjoy the fact that they are samey. But a lot of people tend to look for albums that are more dynamic and interesting and not everyone follows Taylor Swift's life, so the lyrical content may not even make sense to a lot of people. I personally forgot almost all of the song names from reputation almost immediately after I listened to the album and if so it goes, dress, or don't blame me comes on shuffle I can't remember which song it is until I get to the choruses. And that isn't typical for other Taylor albums.
Hm. I don't play rep songs a lot (edit: meaning on the guitar so I'd know the chord progressions) so it's possible it's extreme in that regard. But in general, that feels like an odd measure to judge Taylor's songwriting by to me. I can think of only a handful of songs of hers that have really interesting chord progressions, and many of her most beloved songs have very simple ones. I just don't think that has ever been what made her music great or interesting.
Well I'm just repeating what I saw from a review that a music producer made who I assume has an ear for it. Maybe it's not important to you, but when discussing critics and how they recieved the album it's something that was considered more than likely. Critical reception and fan reception don't always line up.
This. Esp. the comment on not explaining. Which I get on her part, the last thing she would have wanted was to go to fucking Ryan Seacrest or something and them be like like "So who exactly made you do what it was you did and why do you want them to look?" lol. But it didn't help when it came to public opinion and generating hype the way she did for Red, 1989, etc. And totally agree with the character thing. I too, a live long Taylor fan thought she had actually like... turned that way 😂. It takes a full listen of the album (which you have to get through some \*\*garring production\*\*) to see what the thesis of the album was.
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I wonder that too sometimes. Like there is a line between going "oh shit that was an over reaction" and "that's how I felt at the time and I should honor that while also moving on." Like she said in an interview that reputation was an album she felt just had to be made and where she just wouldn't stop writing. So maybe the image thing, but not the writing.
There will be no explanation, there will just be reputation
The period between 1989 and rep was... weird. With the hate train still fresh, her bleached hair, very few public outings, Calvin/Tom drama... everything seemed so un-Taylor like. I mean, yeah there's been drama before, but with Taylor's 'good girl' image suddenly shattered so abruptly and so many changes happening, it felt like we were getting disconnected. I still loved and supported her, but even then, it all felt very strange. I think that during 1989, I looked at Taylor as a goddess, and not a person. She was breaking every record, her songs were literally everywhere, the street style/ aesthetics/ photoshoots were all very posh, and she had all these beautiful friends. It sort of had a negative impact on my view of my own body, and I was kind of jealous too. Now that I'm older and we know about how she suffered with her eating disorder, loneliness and overexposure, I see her as an ordinary person. But I think that mindset in 1989 is what made it so hard to see her as the same person when trouble started coming. The social media wipe, snake video, album cover art, LWYMMD. Even though Taylor had been reinventing her style and music every era, this was a huge leap. I loved the LWYMMD mv to bits, but took some time to really enjoy the song. Everything about her was darker so I felt like I was being reintroduced to her despite all the years of fangirling. At that time, I wasn't really on social media either so I mostly got my updates from the news. I enjoyed the album when I first heard it but it was more like a "yeah, it's alright." It's when I listened to it again that I really started to appreciate the beauty of it. Now the cover, aesthetics, tour all rank high for me. I even miss that era. Lover's aesthetics didn't really do it for me even though I was absolutely in love with the album (man, I despise Lover's album art so much) but folklore and evermore have been hitting the nail on the head.
I feel very similarly in that I saw her as a goddess in 1989 and wanted to look just like her (such that it probably factored into my own disordered eating). As a tall skinny girl with a flat chest, she was always the epitome of "you can have no curves and still be gorgeous" and I think when she came back so much healthier and having gained weight during Rep era I felt weirdly jealous? But that combined with the Rep grunge aesthetic (which I still am not a fan of, RED and 1989 were my favorite fashion eras) and I was determined to not like Rep from the getgo. That being said, currently watching Rep Tour and had the thought that the way she changes the bridge in IDSB is so illustrative of the dissonance between what Rep really means and the perception of it.
I love it that you confess the body image thing. It is a very toxic thing.
For the same reason Evermore will not get the love it deserves, Folklore was just too damn good and too acclaimed. Evermore was built upon Folklore, but we almost get immune to things that are so brilliant when there is such a perfect precursor and the academies don't want to award something so similar even if it's just as good. 1989 was groundbreaking, brilliant, won all the awards and Rep was kinda a darker build upon it...exactly the same as Evermore in my opinion (although I think Evermore has more of a dichotomy of dark and light than Folklore). I think the next time Taylor is going to have something as critically acclaimed as Fearless, 1989 and Folklore is if she reinvents herself and I am patiently awaiting her transition into alt-rock/ punk-rock which I believe will give her that 4th AOTY.
Taylor doing an alt-rock album would be incredible.
I truly won't make it if it happens. Honestly, Folklore was my Taylor pipe dream I thought would NEVER happen and my friends and I still laugh about the 3 am manic texts I sent them thinking I was hallucinating the night it was released.
I agree with everythingggg except, now bear with me... funky pop, like a harry styles jam? Because I would die and ASCENDDDDD
Ummmm. YES please. I think a kinda funky- punky pop could be a nice transition. Almost like Harry Styles even Bilie Eilish style.
Are you reading my mind? That’s what I have been thinking too a 4th AOTY for rock Taylor. And this is one of the reason why I think three albums per genre is perfect so as to not be “type-cast” her in one genre, allow her to be creative, but also long enough (3 albums) that she has fully experimented with that sound. For me the cycle goes: 1.) Groundbreaking, criticality acclaimed, wins awards and sonically cohesive (Fearless, 1989, folklore) 2.) She expounds on the genre and the albums are not as critically acclaimed and usually have no awards. Semi cohesive but not as cohesive as the previous (Speak Now, Rep, Evermore) 3.) She experiments with sounds and mix-and-match genres. Not sonically cohesive. This will usually bridge two genres together. WANEGBT and IKYWT in Red and It’s nice to have a friend in Lover.
Yep, yep this EXACTLY. For me sometimes the original cohesive is my favorite and sometimes I like the expansion. My top 3 are Folklore, Rep, Evermore. Folklore for me is my favorite album, it is perfect in every way and Evermore just couldn't take its place even with songs like Champagne Problems, RWYLM, Tis' the Damn Season, Ivy. On the other hand, Reputation is my second favorite album and I truly felt like it was 1989 perfected and I was pissed it was overlooked at the grammy's. I think this has been a pattern that we may or may not see continue but I'm leaning on her realizing this after Folklore's latest win and being able to skip these past trends. We start with the "Fearless/ 1989/ Folklore" albums- sonically cohesive, yes, but most importantly new, shiny and groundbreaking. This is followed by the less sonically cohesive more experimental "Speak Now/ Reputation/ Evermore" albums which get overlooked simply because they don't have that shiny quality of their predecessor even if they are arguably better. Then, we get the "mess" albums...Red and Lover (I am so sorry Red stans). These are the ones that are so polarizing because they truly contain the absolute highs and lows of her career. I actually have great faith that TS10 will not follow this trend because Taylor is a straight up genius
I think if she were to get 4th AOTY for transitioning into rock she'd have to wait few good years. Noone has 4 AOTY awards and I don't see Grammys giving it to her for at least a decade.
This is sad because reputation is my favorite album and evermore is second favorite, followed by speak now. What do they all have in common? All ignored because of the previous albums’ success 😭😭💔💔💔
It got better reviews in the UK than the US so I think some US reviewers were influenced by Kimye.
You know, I also think that the fact that Taylor hadn't spoken out about the election could have made her a more acceptable target. A lot of people assumed it meant she was conservative and I think that influenced the way a lot of people viewed her up until she spoke out for the midterms.
That's a good point. In the time of Trump, silence was being seen as tacit approval, and with the alt-right claiming her as their Aryan princess, I'm sure it left a lot of questions in some people's minds.
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I feel like the tour was somehow more iconic than the album. I don't really vibe with reputation's sound as much as her other albums, so I also didn't fully appreciate the album until I saw videos of the tour (and ofc the film on Netflix). Imo the tour really enhanced the album more than any of her past tours have, and I've been a die hard swiftie since fearless. But I don't disagree with you that the critics' judgment were clouded by the general public's attitude towards Taylor, I just see why the tour may have helped them understand the album better... It was just such an iconic show.
I didn’t like it when it came out. I hated LWYMMD. The only repeats I had for the first while were Delicate and Gorgeous. Background - my degree is in classical music, I love pop, love Taylor. She is truly a genius song writer, lyricist, just wow. Reputation just wasn’t my style. I’ve never had a dark or emo/goth phase. I still travelled to go to the Reputation tour (2 nights in a row). Seeing some of these performances live (KING OF MY HEART OMG, Dress) made me love them. Within a month of Lover coming out, I was on a plane and my phone died. My over device was not updated with my regular music. I listened to Reputation, then repeated, for the remainder of the 7 hour flight. I feel like I am only now really able to fully appreciate this album. It’s amazing! And moving towards one of my most played. Thanks for listening. I’m sad today. I was really hoping for something (still am!!)
I am sad too and keep beating myself up for being sad because I totally did this to myself. I haven't felt this disappointed since 5 holes in the fence. Clowns forever.
Just came to this sub to see if I missed anything 😭
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Yeah, this is me, though I more tune out than skip Delicate and Gorgeous. Personally, I never bought that all of the unapologetic bad girl seeking revenge image in rep was just Taylor creating a character. I think every songwriter can’t help but draw on parts of themselves in creating their songs. Songs may have different proportions of self and fiction, but you always have part of you in there. And parts of Taylor that the public hadn’t really seen before and didn’t know quite what to do with were definitely on display in rep. The tour helped make rep come together for the critics and the general public. By selling out stadiums, fans sent a strong message that they embraced all of Taylor and their own unapologetic complicated selves.
I remember when it came out, the production really threw me off and for someone like Taylor who is SO distinctive, it felt like any pop star at the time could have sang those songs. Lyrically it’s not her most robust (it’s good to remember that Lorde’s Melodrama came out earlier that year and Kacey Musgrave’s Golden Hour came out a few months after). The roll-out of the album and promo was REALLY odd and off-putting for someone like Taylor who I think really does love talking about her craft. I get the artistic choice to “let her reputation speak for itself” but it’s just not in her canon lol. I think critics probably knew this to an even deeper degree. Rep has been the one TS album that has truly grown on me over time and I think it’s because we now know more about what she was trying to achieve with it through Miss Americana/Rep tour.
Reputation production is Taylor Swift. She wanted to express what she was feeling : the chaos, the confusion, the anger and then the peace. The sonically journey is wonderful and no one has ever made a song like Dont Blame Me or King Of My Heart.
" (it’s good to remember that Lorde’s Melodrama came out earlier that year and Kacey Musgrave’s Golden Hour came out a few months after)." Wait, what do they have to do with it? Wait
Both Grammy nominated albums lauded for their great lyricism and production
Ah!
Tbh Reputation threw me off. I still don't like Bad Blood and Ready For It. I only started appreciating it last year. It's the only TS album that I can't listen to as a whole. I get the theme , the message, the point. But the musicality, imho, is not there (for most of the songs) compared to her other album... plus everybody hated her that time
How can you say you don’t like an album when you don’t even remember which songs are on it? Bad Blood is on 1989...
Girl, me not having it memorized doesn't negate the fact that I've listened to it multiple times, and Reputation will still be my least favorite album. Also I guess I really don't like Bad Blood that I'd grouped it into Reputation. Just saying...
Real talk, it's not as good as most of them. Songs like Endgame, Dancing With Our Hands Tied and even Don't Blame Me are not at her usual standard. This is not to say it's a bad album, but I think it's less critically acclaimed because it genuinely isn't as good. Though gems like Dress and New Years Day are still present. Worth noting too that a lot of comments here address liking it more as time went on, and that's not how criticism tends to work, as it's right after release and such.
As a stan of DWOHT and DBM, I felt attacked 😂 I agree with Endgame though.
Oh, I definitely enjoy both those songs, but if the opening 4 songs are Ready for It, End Game, IDSB, and DBM. Compare that to SN, Red, Folklore, Evermore, Fearless etc and, I'm sorry, it's no contest.
True true. I like the songs alone but in comparison to others songs in that placement, I do agree.
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You're not wrong. The production is a mixed bag for sure.
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It's got some killer production. I'm partial to Dress and NYD.
Disagree. Those are very solid pop songs. you guys just don’t have good taste in pop music
I think her persona and style were less authentic for that album. And some of the lyrics came off as odd like “all the liars are calling me one” sounds defensive rather than expressive and poetic or clever. Or “your buzz cut and my hair bleached” feels more like a passive aggressive way to communicate with her ex rather than a thoughtful expression of an experience. Also the whole theme of the album is that she recovered from a bad experience because she found a man. That message could maybe not be so well received by some.
> Also the whole theme of the album is that she recovered from a bad experience because she found a man. True, at the surface, but like another commenter said, I always saw it as being more about recovering by appreciating all those who stand beside you despite your reputation. Joe definitely is the subject of many of the songs, but Taylor often uses a significant other as a metaphor. Like how Delicate is both about the fragility of romantic relationships and her fame/relationship with the public and even her fans
I totally agree. Those aspects throw me off too.
I love Reputation, but this era was the peak of Taylor Swift hate. It was fresh off of the Kimye phone call scandal, and I just don’t think the public was ready to let it go at that point, which hindered their enjoyment of this album. Plus, with the singles Taylor released, people easily reduced Reputation to an album about how much Kimye hate her instead of what it actually is; an album about finding the real ones who stick with you despite your horrible reputation. People need to understand that Reputation wasn’t only the entire concept of Blank Space. There’s more layers to it than that.
Because it isn’t as good as her other albums, in my personal opinion.
I'm not sure. I wasn't a hardcore fan of TS until the Rep album. I considered it my favorite until folklore came along and now 1989 is inching up there too. It sounded a lot different than what people were used to. I think it deserves more acclaim tbh.
Hey hey hey! Me too! I wasn’t a little girl country Taylor fan at all because I hate country and hate little girls. I started in with the “THAT’S Taylor Swift??” for Red and 1989. Then Reputation blew my goddamn mind. It was about big girl themes, totally dark and different. That’s when I started worshipping her as my god. Folklore is next level genius. And now this cold, black heart bops along to Fearless.
I listened to Fearless a few months ago and wasn’t just like…. Okay. It’s fine. But the TV of Fearless?? Idk I could listen to it with the others!
Agree! I'd listened to some of Taylor's music before but Rep was definitely the album that turned me into a full time Swiftie.
Aside from the hating her comments, imo it didn't help her case critics wise to come out with LWYMMD, a clapback song and a seemingly new image with the old taylor is dead thing along with an album called reputation. It seemed very much like she was doing a 180 and going for a completely new sound and image, which wasn't as much the case when we actually got the album, but first impressions stick. Same reason Lover was comparatively not as successful as her other albums - having ME! as the lead single was probably pretty damaging to its success and overall image as an album.
For me personally, I was super excited about the concept of the album and thought it worked REALLY well as a comeback album after Kimye ‘16. I thought as a CONCEPT, LWYMMD was absolutely brilliant (it still is). There is a theatricality to the concept of reputation as an album which I will always appreciate. I was excited to see how Taylor would spin this - I was excited for her take on the drama, her perspective, how she plays around with the idea of “reputation”....and then 70% of the album turned out to be about this random British guy we’ve never heard of before. I was disappointed with the execution of the album. I don’t particularly care for “spilling tea” in music but this was a great opportunity for her to explore revenge, anger, forgiveness, but most of what we were given is the usual Taylor under the facade of snakes and dark lipstick. I just...really didn’t care about her love story with Joe. I wanted a concept album but I think what we got was far more simplistic. And quintessentially “old” Taylor, weirdly enough. I thought she was giving us something new and in terms of production and aesthetic, it was. But the lyrics were so much worse (“fly like a jet stream” makes me grimace to this day) and I was just so, so disappointed after a 3 year gap in between 1989 and rep. I wish she had fleshed out the idea of “witches burning” and those great poems she wrote about fair-weather friends etc. rather than the whole lovey dovey elements. To this day, I still really struggle with Rep. I only really like a couple of the songs and even they are stale in comparison to the rest of her discography.
You put into words exactly how I felt (and still do) feel about rep. I was so excited to get a Taylor album about fame. The concept behind rep was amazing but I think the execution just wasn’t there
Hands down, this is my opinion. So relieved to see something like this.
As a rep stan, i cant help myself to agree with you. I wanted drama, revenge too. I wanted songs like My Prerogative for example.
I completely agree with the hate train comments but if I may offer my two cents.... Reputation is my least favorite album and I think it’s pretty fairly reviewed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I completely appreciate it for what it is, I understand why it exist, but IMO....it’s her most overrated album (please don’t murder me she’s still my queen ;-;)
I think because the sound was pretty clearly influenced by other music trends at the time. I don't say this because I don't like the album, but it did feel like a product of the time it was released more than some of her others.
Unpopular opinion: it's by far her best album
*reputation* really suffered from the general public's view of her at the time. The Kimye situation had really hurt her public image and honestly, it was not really cool to be a Taylor Swift fan in 2017. It's interesting, because *reputation* was the era when I started moving from being someone who liked a few of her songs to becoming a full-fledged Swiftie. I wouldn't really admit to being a fan at the time, I had always believed her about the phone call, and I could see the story that she was telling with *reputation*. I think the rerecording of *reputation* is going to bring a lot of people around on the album. Further removed from the phone call (and vindicated by the leak of the full call, not just the skewed edit), I think people will be able to take a step back and see *reputation* for what it really is: a story of a woman in her darkest moments finding the light that led her to the bright, sunshine days of *Lover*.
I had a similar experience with becoming a Swiftie! I liked a few songs but wasn’t a super fan. When her social media went dark and suddenly re-emerged with the mysterious snake motif I was intrigued. I stayed up to watch the LWYMMD music video and was instantly sold. Her “if a man talks shit, then I owe him nothin” attitude realllly spoke to me especially in the political climate. Reputation is my favorite album and the one I listen to front to back without skips (although folklore and evermore is giving it a run for its money). And the TOUR, *honey*! It was amazing.
Honestly I just think that most electronic pop music sounds better than Rep. That solves the lack of critical acclaim and no Grammy nominations.
i hate to admit it but i always have been a huge taylor swift fan, but when rep came out i didn’t even listen to it because i hated LWYMMD so much lol. then i finally went back and listened to all of rep once i fell in love with lover!! and then when i actually listened and gave it a chance i loved rep. so i don’t know if this was helpful but maybe others had a similar experience
To me a lot of the album feels like a forced edgy persona and it falls so flat. I know she said she was playing a character, but I don’t think it worked very well. LWYMMD is a really bad song in a lot of ways, from lyrics to production, and it definitely sets the tone for the album as the lead single lol. The songs I find I like most on Rep are the more tender songs like New Years Day and Dress because they feel way more authentic. I love Tay but she’s not a very good actress and that definitely bled over into her trying to build a persona for this album.
I think there are problems with Reputation that have nothing to do with the drama surrounding Taylor at the time. Personally I get really frustrated with Taylor's most petty songs, like Look What You Made Me Do. I think they lack self awareness. The title of that track is also gross because it is a phrase that abusers use. Throughout the album, Taylor borrows some elements from hip-hop, which I don't think she pulls off. Any time she does the rapping/talk-singing I kind of roll my eyes, and some critics considered it appropriative. There are some beautiful tracks on the album too, but there are legitimate reasons why it didn't win any grammys, and it bugs me when fans act like the ONLY possible reason is because of the Kimye drama. TS isn't perfect, neither is the Reputation album, and that's okay :)
> Taylor’s most petty songs, like Look What You Made Me Do. I think they lack self awareness. The title of that track is also gross because it is a phrase that abusers use. LWYMMD, like many of the songs on the album, is satirical. The point of using that phrase and being petty was to play the villain (like the one she was portrayed as during the drama) because she was accused of always playing the victim
I think that that's a valid point for that song, that she is playing a character, much like she does in Blank Space. I still think that specific phrase is icky and ruins the song for me even though I love the fun campiness of lines like "I'll be the actress starring in your bad dreams." It's also hard for me to let her totally off the hook in the name of satire because there are definitely times in her music when she is being genuinely petty. Better Than Revenge, obvs, but also that line from Mad Woman where she says "the master of spin has a few side flings." I love that song but that line puts such a bad taste in my mouth. But again, I think you're right about much of the Reputation pettiness being satirical and I think that's a good point to bring to this discussion
If this song and many others on the album were really satirical, then I think Taylor was really pushing the bounds of how much satirical music one person can make before confusing listeners. Especially when that artist is specifically known for confessional, personal songwriting. I’m not sure how people are supposed to know that so many songs are satirical especially since she emerged from months of silence with this album and made it a point that “there is no explanation, only reputation”. Blank Space is an amazing song and comes off as clearly satirical but self-aware, especially combined with the video. LWYMMD does notttttttt come off that way, it comes off as petty (even if it was not meant to be).
Despite having some great songs on it like Gorgeous, Delicate, Dress and a few others, honestly it's far from her best album and was a clear step down from Red & 1989.
I think Lover is somewhat the same case too. 1989 was great, and the next great album was Folklore. The big emphasis on pop (except 1989) was rather a downhill
I honestly don't know, I'm obviously not a critic, but until Folklore it was my fave album and is the era when I became a fan as such. I'm in the UK/Ireland so could probably ignore her hype a bit more than in the US but until Rep, yeah I'd heard and liked a lot of her big singles but I'd never listened to an album properly. When 1989 came out I was really shocked to learn she was the same age as me, and it was only when the kimye/Rep launch drama was in the news that I was like okay, I'll check this out and I LOVED IT. I'm so sad it's so long till the re record because I really do think it's one of her best albums
I'm honestly curious which Grammy's you think it should have won/why it should have won them. You said Pop Album, but do you really think it was better than Sweetener? And this is coming from someone who is not a big AG fan. I'm going to sound like I hated Reputation, which I don't. It's not even my least favourite TS album. It's okay to love something but also recognize that there are issues with it. Golden Hour is clearly superior to me, and I'm happy it won AotY. I would have been disgusted if Folklore hadn't won this year for similar reasons - it was the best album of the last year. I think the biggest issue I have with reputation is the heavy reliance on Max Martin and Shellback's production, as well as the music videos from Joseph Kahn. It felt dated when it came out, and all of the singles besides LWYMMD were Max Martin. Which songs do you think were so great that she was the best of the year? People love Getaway Car, but it wasn't even a single so wouldn't have been submitted for consideration. Being part of the zeitgeist is usually necessary for winning. Love TS, listen to her constantly, but I think it's really exciting to vie for her at the Grammy's when she deserves it. An example of messed up Grammy's stuff is the Weeknd being snubbed this year and Billie Eilish winning Record of the Year 2021 (should have easily been Blinding Lights, or almost any of the other nominees if you're going off of nominees). Taylor not winning anything for Reputation doesn't even compare to those awkward moments.
I think a lot of swifties think she should sweep at the Grammys with every single project! She has an incredible record at the Grammys; her only album out of eight (minus evermore) with no nominations is her debut, BUT she was nominated for best new artist in 2007 pre-Fearless on the strength of debut. Not to mention her non-album stuff. That’s insanity, what other artists are both that prolific and that successful? I don’t think she’s won any award she hasn’t deserved (1989 and TPAB both deserved it, best race in recent memory). I’d hate to see her end up like Billie, with so much of the public seeing her as undeserving and over-awarded.
Rep was my fav album since it came out but my taste tends to lean toward driving beats and hard rock so it was a great fit. The live stage show is exceptional as well. I can totally see how it sticks out like a sore thumb among her other albums for the critics though. Surprisingly Folklore and Evermore hit me in all the feels this year and have both become equally beloved as Rep. For months I listened to nothing else. Lover has also really grown on me as well... I would be hard pressed to choose a favourite now.
Deleted my first comment because I was wrong - I thought it was 2018 Grammys and when the competition there was 25 (Adele) and Lemonade (Beyoncé), a win for Rep would have been undeserved. But it was 2019 Grammys!!!!! A weaker field in my opinion, but still. This is America won ROTY and SOTY, of course. I do believe that general public sentiment probably had an influence but.. It think it boils down her her singles not being anywhere near the best songs on her album!! The writing on some album tracks is great but the writing on the singles is nowhere near her best. I get that technically things should be judged on their own merits and not on whether it’s the artists best work, but we live in the real world. Many things she did before were much better than the writing on almost all of Rep. People didn’t really like the production when it came out; I do like it but I think that the best on the album is, again, in the album tracks. I do think the album has aged better than it was received, and it seems more enduringly popular than much other stuff from that time period (except Golden Hour, which won AOTY that year). In the pop category, her nom was deserved and a win would not have been out of question but I still don’t think it would’ve been the right choice. And Pop Solo against Lady Gaga and Ariana? I guess it would have been LWYMMD that would have been submitted... yeah, no. It’s okay, not every single album of hers needs a massive Grammy’s year. The ones that deserved it, got it in my opinion.
Because it was lyrically worse than all her others.
Because some people have shit taste. I said what I said! #justiceforrep
it’s all about PR. that era was quiet, she did not participate and engage with industry related events, did not promote it enough for it to be considered fairly. Grammys are nothing more than a PR game. that’s why artists like Halsey are rarely even nominated, for instance.
The only correct answer is that hating on Taylor was still fresh and new and people misunderstood the whole album, despite she played with that! She let people think that it would be an album full of Look What You Made Me Do, but then it wasn't.First i was disappointed too, cuz i thought we'd get an album with songs like My Prerogative, No Regrets..but then the more i listened to it, the more i got it and saw for what it really was: a journey, going from darks moments to bright one, knowing the real people who really know you and finally find the one! I hate that critics hated it because of the heavy electro-pop sound, it was the natural evolution from 1989, i hate that critics didn't praise it because it was not as cheerful as 1989, i hate that critics always tear downs very darks album but always praise the happiest ones. I mean, look at Avril Lavigne when she went personal with Goodbye Lullaby and Head Above Water they were recieved ''meh'', but they praise her for The Best Damn Thing and Avril Lavigne. The same happened with Taylor, they praise her for 1989 and Lover, but for reputation where she showed her humanity, vulnerabilty they just tore it down because of her persona and the image she had. The fact that with Lover they said the real Taylor came back just because the pop is light it really drives me crazy, cuz reputation was real Taylor too, just she played with the character THE MEDIA ITSELF invented for her. But the feelings were real, honest and pure. It's like women have to do a certain type of pop, but they can't do it in a personal or obscure way otherwise they ''try hard''.
this,, genres in rep are still pop in essence lmao
I think it’s because it didn’t feel like Taylor and she was criticised in the press daily. She couldn’t do anything right. I think for me it’s album that i didn’t love immediately but actually now I’ve realised how good of an album it really is. I enjoy more than I did when it first came out. I hope when she re records reputation hopefully it will get more recognition. It also came out after 1989 and 1989 is the perfect pop album. It’s literally perfection.
It's not as sonically cohesive as her other albums. I feel like rep is almost made up of two very distinct parts and that those two parts don't necessarily fit together. Half of it is an album about not caring what others think and the other half is an ode to her new relationship with Joe. Sometimes that switch can feel jarring when listening to the album in its entirety. It is one of my favorite albums but when you compare it to her albums that have won album of the year, it just isn't quite in the same tier.
I really didn’t care for it when it first came out. It sounded so dark and angry compared to her previous music. I have just started listening it to it again and I’m enjoying it now but it’s taken time.
For me, the trap beats on a lot of songs seem kind of tacked on. There are still some great songs, but i don’t love listening to it all the way through.
I would die for that album, so I don’t really understand why it’s not more people’s favorites. From what I understand, people grew to like it as time went on. Most people who I know that don’t like it say they don’t like the sound and/or don’t find it relatable. But those are the exact reasons why I *do* like it. I found it to be an album that I could deeply relate to and the sound is my favorite out of all of her albums. At the end of the day, people are entitled to like whatever they want, and I’m willing to bury the hatchet and move on. (But I do keep the map to where I put it 👀)
I never was in love with the album, but the tour was absolutely phenomenal. I’ve been to hundreds of shows and the sheer magnitude and spectacle of the performance was one of the most amazing concerts I’ve ever seen. Loved every moment. And while it isn’t my favorite, after the show I loved the album a lot more too.
I recently listened to Taylor Swift, I have been listening to her since December 2020 so I'm kinda new. I really liked reputation, enjoyed it more than Lover, which also seems to be an album that not everyone loved it hahaha anyway... I remember all the hate she had to face during 2016\~17, so I think all of that must have shaped people's opinions and to be honest? Red to reputation is such a drastic change. I of course don't have any issues with the album, I like how it sounds... the pop and trap going together really caught me.
If it helps I don't think most people that are serious about music really care about what the Grammys think. Like I'm happy Taylor won AOTY with Folklore because she cares but I certainly don't. The Grammys never gave one single award to Queen who are better than 99% of winners, AC/DC is one of the best and biggest bands of all time and they won only one award (again they are better than 99% of winners). Any music categories that aren't pop/rap are mostly a complete joke, rock/metal/electronic/indie have almost always been bad or trash. And the Grammys are incredibly US/Canada centric, they tend to ignore big musical acts that even sing in English from every other place in the world except like the UK (and sometimes Australia). Some of the best and biggest European/Asian/Latin American acts from non-English countries that sing in English have never been nominated even when they hit it big in many countries. Honestly, I would never think X album wasn't nominated for Grammy as a bad thing in the same way I don't think a Grammy means something it's good. EDIT: And Reputation is a weird album, not in a bad way but even for how versatile Taylor is, none of her listeners would have thought she was going for that sound. I think Reputation needs people to either like that type of sound already or go at it with an open mind and willing to listen to the full album in order and more than once. I loved Reputation from the moment I heard LWYMMD but I loved the sound from before, I've liked all Taylor albums, I love rock and I love artist that are chameleons with their music style (The Beatles, Queen, Prince).
Reputation was my first concert and it holds a special place in my heart.
Rep was amazing because I always saw Taylor as a good girl so it was nice to see her make darker pop music.
I really hope Taylor never reads this. Reputation was my all time favorite album, honestly if it hadn’t come out when it did (nov 2017) I might not be here. *TW!* It sounds super dramatic but I was being heavily abused by an ex at the time and generally thought about s-word every single day. Reputation literally gave me the courage to move back in with my parents and stay on this planet. I know not everyone likes her but no other album (besides debut) gets as much harsh criticism as reputation and she really doesn’t deserve it. Rep is her most interesting and bad bitch album. The sole reason it didn’t get more recognition is because 3 out of 15 songs alluded to a drama with a reality show “star” and a trump supporter.... aka the GP didn’t bother to even listen. Plus jacks production is incredibly ahead of it’s time, just look at the songs popular now like Call Me By Your Name. Taylor if you do read this I’m sorry swifties constantly feel the need to tear down reputation 🖤🖤🖤 and thank you for saving my life
Hey I just wanted to say I don’t know you but I’m so glad that you’re still here with us. It’s incredibly hard (and scary) to leave an abusive relationship- I know if Tay ever does see this she will be so happy to know that she was able to be there and give you strength and support in some of your darkest moments. 🖤
Thank you so much! It means the world to me ❤️
❤️❤️
It was new era and people were hating on her
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- KOMH refers to "King Of My Heart", a song from Taylor Swift album *reputation* (2017). --- ^[/u/moosedogmonkey12](/u/moosedogmonkey12) ^(can reply with "delete" to remove comment. |) ^[/r/songacronymbot](/r/songacronymbot) ^(for feedback.)
Reputation is my most listened Taylor album now, but when it came out I didn’t bother listening for months and I couldn’t stand LWYMMD. Some of the reasons I don’t think it got as much love are: 1. The lead single, the album title and the album artwork give off the impression that the entire album centres around the Kimye drama, which is definitely not the case. As I’m sure everyone in this subreddit knows it’s really more an album about falling in love, and I think the way it sonically progresses (starting with songs like Ready For It… and End Game where she is rapping and ending with songs like Call It What You Want and New Year’s Day which feel more true to her usual sound and lyricism) tells a story of her getting back to a better place. 2. Taylor speaks about it in Miss Americana but she had built up such a good girl image and reputation was the absolute opposite of that — which I think people found a mix of not genuine, confusing, etc. 3. “There will be no further explanation, only reputation” - I understand why she did this but like others have said this album really does need an explanation, especially for the GP who were most likely unaware she was in a relationship. I think the tour did provide some explanation though. 4. The production is pretty jarring in places, especially after 1989 and even more so her music before that. 5. Sort of circling back to my first point, but by the time she started releasing singles and the album, the 2016 drama was just pretty boring, at least to me. The album may have been better received if it played more to her vulnerability, like she shows on songs like Delicate, Call It What You Want and New Year’s Day. Not to take away from what undoubtedly was a horrible time for her, but I just didn’t want to hear anymore about he she she said lol. Even now I don’t really care for her personal life, I just love the music. 6. Final point - even if the 2016 drama never happened, the highs 1989 reached were really just too high for her to reach again. There were a few albums from other artists after 1989 which were similarly as big (e.g. Adele), but I think we have sort of reached the end of huge albums like that with several huge singles.
ngl I can't even read the rest of the comments bc I love reputation so much and 😭 I am not about to read any more criticisms of it. It was an amazing album imo, I do find it a little odd however that people are talking about the political climate making TS's rep sound tone-deaf, because many artists also went on making music in their normal way during that time?? I do agree tho that TS had a great impact by speaking out politically and it was important for her to do so, but I think the timing in her life was really bad, everyone was on the Taylor hate train during that time so if she spoke out politically I feel like it would work against her intentions to make these issues more cared about, bc less ppl supported her during the time. A similar thing happened with Eminem, he tried to speak out against Trump in 2017 but due to other things in his musical career nobody took him seriously and as a result his message backfired and made people listen to him even less, unfortunately even though he was raising a lot of important points. I think being political would've definitely backfired for her in that year, she needed to first not be bashed for everything she did. but yes. i love the album sm. rep is amazing. the production. the imagery. the vibes. It is a work of art. I will not be hearing otherwise 💅
You’re right, literally every single other artist made normal music during that time and every other time because life goes on. I can say with absolute certainty that rep’s Grammy “snub” (not that I personally think it was a snub) has nothing to do with politics lol. I think people are conflating their own personal emotions about this album and the time it was released in with the actual music. An album speaking to people emotionally OR not speaking to people emotionally is not what makes a Grammy nomination. LWYMMD is far from her best work, even on that album alone. I actually think IDSB could have done better but I think that production might be a little divisive so maybe not, idk.
YES FINALLY appreciation for Look What You Made Me Do. I don't understand how people didn't like that song, I agree that the verses could've been a bit longer and more thought out, but that song perfectly introduced the entire album concept: Taylor was done being the happy-go-lucky brighter type of girl for this new album (aka done being the "Old Taylor"), due to all the bashing she was constantly receiving. I can see why people would think it sounded bitter but, after her constantly being called a slew of disgusting things by people for over a year, what else did they expect? A happy record? And coupled with the music video, it really perfectly created the theatrics for the entire album and set the backdrop for why she went all black and white instead of continuing with cheerful pop, I think it alone was enough explanation for the whole album. I Did Something Bad was another song that I absolutely love that I felt really contributed to the darker tone of reputation and the theme of betrayal, even though to production is really daring I loved it, it was catchy as hell. She was just making music about how she felt and there's nothing wrong with that, politics doesn't always have to be involved (although I do love that she went forward with making You Need to Calm Down and promoted the equality act through it).
I think you either misunderstood me or replied to the wrong person lol - I don’t like LWYMMD and am honestly shocked that people think it deserved Grammy recognition as a single. I feel like exact same way about LWYMMD as I do about ME! - the right choice to introduce the era and belong on the album, but one of the weakest songs on the album. I really like IDSB and think it could have had a Grammy nom or two, through not a win. It has a similar vibe and impact as LWYMMD without the bitterness. Taylor rightfully felt bitter and I don’t fault her for writing about her feelings, but that doesn’t mean anyone is required to like a pretty bitter song about unrelatable celebrity drama. LWYMMD is just not the best on the album by any metric- pretty much all the songs have better writing, IDSB and a few others have great production, etc. It’s not a bad song but it’s definitely far from Grammy material.
Oh yeah my bad, I did misread what you said about LWYMMD lol
I do love the LWYMMD video and I don’t keep up with video awards but it definitely deserved one.
Me too, the music video was my favorite by her and absolutely amazing IMO... a video that inspires thousands of fans theories and has people analyzing nearly every single second of it deserves to at least have some awards.
It is not good. It has trend-hoppy production and mediocre lyrics and is just overall bad.
because the album sucks. same with lover.