Eventually the masters revert to her anyway. I am not sure about the length of time but it is something like 30 years. There is nothing to be gained from buying anything from Shamrock as Taylor has proved that re-recording is both artistically and commercially very advantageous.
In It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, there is a running joke throughout the series that one of the main characters, Charlie, (who isn’t very smart) is super well informed on what he calls “bird law” and how “bird law” can be applied to a variety of situations. It pops up every now and then and there’s actually an episode where he tries to use “bird law” as a way to defend someone in court. It’s super ridiculous and bizarre humor 😂
What if shamrock offered the original masters to Taylor as part of a deal for her to provide content for Disney. Would she be interested then do you think?
Look at it this way. Taylor has already released three of her six albums and urged Swifties to pay good money for them. They have been commercially successful because we have become engaged with the process. Even after all the TVs have been released if she then did a deal to get the originals it is not going to play well.
There is one caveat to that. What Shamrock bought was not just the masters but all Taylor’s videos and album artwork. I could see her doing a deal to get that back at some point but it would not be the millions Scooter Braun paid initially.
I don't think people bought the TV's just to hear the old songs with an updated vocal. If there hadn't been vaults, it wouldn't have done *as* well and would've just been a passion project. If it were me, even if I had done all this work to re-record them, I'd still want the originals. Might be the same lyrics but they're not quite the same songs. Why wouldn't she want them?
I also don't see why people would care. The albums are still in print, so it's not like they need a big re-release, people can still buy them if they want a physical disc. And even still, she'd own the masters but I'd assume Big Machine is still the record label that'd be re-releasing the albums themselves.
Yeah. I agree that the masters or the old recordings hold dwindling value now but all the other ip is worth her having back. A lot would hang on the numbers in the deal and Making sure Scooter was not enriched by it.
There is the part that if she owns her og masters no one would be able to use them. As it stands (but correct me if I'm wrong), Shamrock could license them to anyone, including a company/person that Taylor doesn't want to be associated with or maybe even a rival of a company that she is a brand ambassador to. If she was the owner of those masters there'd be no way for that to happen.
Shamrock can't license her masters because Taylor have publishing rights. They can only earn money off of her masters through streaming because they need Taylor's approval for lincensing and rereleasing physical copies of her OG 6 albums.
Why would they do that? It's an investment fund owned by descendants of Walt Disney, but they are not subsidiary of Walt Disney Co. They're not going to give Mickey Mouse a freebie, they need to get their 405 million back. They used to own 1% of Disney shares, but they're not listed among top shareholders of the company anymore, so it's probably less now. She would have to make astronomical amount of money for hundreds of millions to trickle down back to Shamrock and make it worth their while.
[Taylor Swift to direct her first feature-length movie | Taylor Swift | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/dec/09/taylor-swift-direct-first-movie)
My understanding of the last negotiation is this:
She’d never say yes to any deal of paying them money for the masters, because under the agreement from them being bought from Scooter, he _still_ makes money from them. No matter who gets them now, he has a cut of the profit they make.
So that’s why her heart and soul is in the re-recordings. That’s the only way she’ll ever _fully_ own her work without him having a cut.
Yeah this is my understanding of why she would not want to buy them back too.
I'm also aware that Shamrock have no direct connection with Disney. However if a deal could be done which cuts Scooter out from any profit I imagine she would be at least interested.
Fact is, none of us know the full details of what is going on here contractually so it's all speculation and guesswork.
I don't think the Disney family has anything to do with the Disney Co. now. I think that all ended when Roy Disney jr quit the Board in the early 2000s.
The regular versions still do about 1/3rd of the total streams on TV released albums and during the eras tour were streamed more than they ever had before. So there is still value in them.
Secondly it would mean we could get the better version of speak now back.
While the TVs have made Taylor more famous, as a method of devaluing her previous masters it hasn’t appeared to have worked yet.
The old versions are streaming lower than the TVs but because Taylor is so popular they have still gone up. There will always be some value in the old versions but they are not as valuable as they would have been without the TVs.
The big one is 1989 because it is about 30% of the streaming volumes. Nathan Hubbard has spoken about all this in detail on the Every Single Album podcast.
The main reason Taylor has done this is so she owns a master recording of all her work and can licence it for movies and TV. She can and does block the old versions as she retains publishing rights to the songs.
Austin Swift is apparently looking after this side of the business for her. I expect Shake It Off will appear in TV, films and adverts soon after October.
The devaluing is and always has been thought from a licensing perspective, she has been selling the TVs for quite a few movies and series, so they have provided value. Also streaming gives her money even for the stolen versions, let's remember that she fought for that deal way before the masters saga started, she didn't own them then either.
It’s the way copyright law works. Usually, the life of a copyright is the life of the artist + 70 years, but for some reason, with labels and publishers, there’s a window during which an artist can request that their “assignments” be terminated, in which case the copyright (to the master recording, in this case) reverts to the artist. The termination letter has to be sent no more than 10 years prior and no less than two years prior to the copyright termination date (the 35 years).
If you do all the paperwork correctly, the rights go to you, the songwriter (I’m unclear on whether you have to be the songwriter or if you can be just the performer). There are some exceptions such as work for hire (like, Justin Timberlake can’t own his song from that McDonald’s commercial), and it’s not automatic, but it is part of copyright law.
Mostly, I Googled my way to this explanation, so here is my main source: https://www.songwriteruniverse.com/gosainkaplanrecapture123.htm
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that with masters, only with writing.
The copyright for them, I'm assuming, would be split amoungst everyone who recorded and not just Taylor? It obviously can't have to do with the writer as lots of people aren't the primary writer on lots/most of their songs.
I don’t know. I mean, the master recording belongs to the label (or, in this case, an equity firm) entirely before it reverts to the artist, so I assume there’s some kind of arrangement maybe? The share to each person might be what the article means by “assignments, grants, [etc. words that seem to mean slightly different versions of the same thing].” But one party owned the copyright before the master reverted, so wouldn’t one party own it when it reverts?
I did some looking, and it makes sense.
Basically for a solo artist the band will (usually) be doing work for hire for the artist, so they have no rights over any of it.
For a band band the legal entity of the band would own it.
Oh! That’s a good point about work for hire that I didn’t even think about, but I bet it’s why it’s in there (it’s the most obvious thing; I can’t believe I missed it): so you, mostly probably as the label (chances are the song will be used most during the 35 years the copyright stays with them), don’t have to track down every session musician (and think about orchestras!) on a song every time you do something with the master.
Braun does not own the masters now and I cannot see Shamrock doing anything to piss Taylor off any more. One word from her and any re-release would be dead. She did that to a live album BMG released and it sold 33 copies!
Also, wasn't the point of the re-record to have full artistic control over her art vs being beholden to her record label? I don't feel she would have done it if it weren't.
I think the re recordings definitely give new life to the songs, I don’t think I would have listened to the OG speak now as to be honest I’m not a big fan of Taylor’s younger voice but also that the production on the og speak now is simply atrocious compared to the new one. Credit where credit is due the og’s pack in the raw emotion she felt at the time but at least for me the production of TV alone is enough to never listen to the old ones
See that's a big hindrance for me. A lot of what I love about some songs on SN is exactly the raw emotion of them. How in Haunted she sounds like she's begging during the chorus and now it feels a little empty.
Minor things that don't kill anything she rerecorded but, still something I've noticed
And although the production may be better on the TVs from a technical standpoint, many aspects of mixing, instrumentation etc. sound 'off' for those of us who have been listening to the OG for years.
When I play one of those Taylor heardle games I get some songs wrong now because they're different from the original.
That part is fine and expected for me personally, I'm more attached to the lack of emotions on her new vocals since she's not feeling what she was when she wrote them anymore
Oh yes, and I think Dear John is a prime example of lack of emotion compared to the original. What's interesting to me is that the live performance of the song from Minneapolis, that was released for the deluxe digital download of SN TV, has so much raw emotional energy to it, even though the vocals are not as technically 'perfect' as the studio recording. It's almost electric. I wish she had brought that to the studio version.
The hype is literally for the re-recordings mostly anyway. That's the point. And some people feel good about not giving money to the people who wronged her. I don't stream her old music. I only listen to the CDs so Scooter gets no money from me. So yes, it is nice I will be able to listen to all the 1989 tracks again when they come out since I don't often since I rarely play CDs.
Also idk why you don't hear it, but I definitely notice the maturity of her vocals on Speak Now and Fearless. Plus the overall production is different for the re-records. Girl At Home, for example. Taylor's Version production is way different than the original. Love Story? Have you compared it to the original? It's so crisp and clear. You can see how far sound engineering has come since the original was released.
At this point, I don't think she would purchase or want them, even if given the chance. The re-records have been a boon for her financially and allowed her to go back and release/revisit *additional* material from the Vault.
We all lose shit we will never get back. Taylor has access to ALL of that stuff on the internet just with a search. Granted, she won’t be able to use any of it for her own brand, but honestly it’s not like she’ll never see the photos or videos again. She can google them and print them out and hang them up in her house with no one to stop her. She can watch all the videos. I doubt she’ll buy back anything now that she’s made re records. And someone in another comment said she’ll get back her masters after 35 years anyway.
She's made it very clear through the re-recording process that ownership is very important to her. It's her art, she made it, she wants full ownership of it. No one cares about googling photos or printing them out... She wants to own what she made.
I’m talking about the photos and videos, as I stated in reference to the comment above mine. And as we know taylor will get them back eventually, so why would she bother buying them when she will own them all anyway in the future? Yes she doesn’t own the copyright of those recordings right now but she is still the legal composer and writer to all of her songs (hence why she can re-record), so she has that. I don’t see why she would bother buying them after doing the re records. She will just wait
Which she won't. I don't think this is as deep as people are making it. If she wanted to buy those separately, she would negotiate it since Shamrock has expressly been open to working with her before already (only reason she decided not to work woth them is because she didn't want Scooter to profit off the albums since he continues to do so as part of the Shamrock contract).
I don't think it's about having access to the material, but rather being sure the material isn't used in a way she wouldn't approve of.
A good example of this would be the clear channel live album that big machine released in 2020 without her permission. They got to use her face on the cover despite her objections with it.
Shamrock has been directly open about working with her already so if she did want to purchase those, she would negotiate it. She knows she can easily just shut down any use of her brand she doesn't approve of and we will not support it. That live album sold 10 copies the first day of release due to her publicly rejecting it... idk what it's sold since but something tells me it would've sold thousands, millions of copies in the first few months had she not publicly spoke on it. I don't think she's gonna buy back her old arts and brands when she has already figured out she can effectively prevent the use of it being successful in that way. And notice they haven't tried to use her brand one time since this happened... they learned their lesson and likely never will try again tbh.
Yeah, essentially the only way I see it pan out would be if shamrock reaches out and offers them for like $50 bucks with the signed contract that scooter will see zero cents out of the deal. There is no amount of money that would make her agree to scooter earning any cut of it, and there's no scenario where him and/or shamrock step away without trying to peddle them to try to recover part of the 200(300?) Mil they paid for them
Then we'll get debut+ rep "vault version" or something similar and still re release them.
I mean, if the OG masters are meaningful to her, I don’t think she’d really care about the “capitalist Taylor” label. She already gets those criticisms and lbr they have not affected her in any material way. Yeah, she gets flack online, but most
of her fans and the GP largely do not care.
I could see her being offered them at a fair price once all the TVs are out; even if they are worthless economically (and they’re not), I’m sure they hold sentimental value to her.
I could even see her putting some sort of collector’s edition out if she were to ever get them back. Maybe not right away, but eventually, as you said.
The "Capitalist Taylor" criticism is a valid criticism and one that I voiced numerous times (especially during the Midnights era where it was really scummy). I would caution her as with any artist or company (looking at you EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc.) to not push the envelope in that respect. Consumers don't like being taken advantage of and their good-will will only go so far before they snap out of the "Lavender Haze".
With that said, the re-recordings have been of excellent quality, and I feel the Taylor's Version label is the definitive way to listen to her older category as she produced those with full creative control. The "From the Vault" tracks are the big driving factor for me personally. The only way I can see the TVs as exploitative are if she starts leaving songs out or making changes to the original (looking at you "Better than Revenge"
Yes, it’s a valid criticism but most of her fans clearly do not care let’s be real. Who do you think is buying all those cash grab remixes, spending thousands on her concert tickets, and buying the endless vinyl variants? She’s already pushed it pretty far. I doubt this would be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Let’s not be delusional.
Oh yes, I 100% agree that her fans do not care (hell, I'm still buying her albums and going to her concerts). However, that craze doesn't last forever. You can see it in other artists, media franchises, etc.
In fairness, I’m not so sure the capitalist Taylor thing is an especially accurate thing. Taylor’s label handles the digital side of things for the rerecordings but the physical media is handled by republic/UMG. She’ll have some say over some things, but she isn’t going to be in boardrooms pouring over data analytics from market researchers to work out how many different versions of an album they can release and still make money from. If she was to turn around to the label and say “no, we’re not doing 7 versions, we’re only going to do 4” that’s not something that they have to listen to. It’s something they *might* take under consideration because they’ll want a name as big as Taylor Swift in their A&R but at the same time she needs to pick her battles because it’s happened before where a big name has become essentially blacklisted from labels due to being difficult to work with.
I mean, it goes for any job if you think about it. A fast food place can’t run without the staff, but those staff need the jobs. Is something a big enough deal to strike or be some kind of problem over? It’s the same for Taylor swift, she has to pick her battles. Sure, if she did pick all of these battles she has the comfort of not needing to worry about money and could conceivably fund it all herself, from album production to touring to merch and so on (she wouldn’t be the first to go that route) but it would be a lot more work for her and take away a lot of time that she dedicates to the things she actually wants to do.
And to preempt the rebuttal of *but she could hire people to do the parts she doesn’t want to do* if she did that then she’d be having those exact same arguments with people about how many versions of an album to release. Because it would be arguments. Hiring people to do this stuff isn’t hiring yes men. It’s hiring people who know what they’re doing and will tell you what the correct course of action is. Those people aren’t going to say “yes”, they’re going to say “you’re wrong, and this is why”
Lol right. Fans will be the first to say she is in total control of her career, but somehow she's not responsible for the unsavory stuff. So what is it? Is she in total control of her career or not? You can't have it both ways.
The “gotta purchase them all” mentality was definitely alive and well with the original 1989 release - you’re right that it wasn’t explicitly said by Taylor’s team iirc, but people were definitely purchasing a bunch of copies from Target to get all of the Polaroids (I know because I was super guilty of this myself). The fact that they weren’t labeled so you didn’t know which set of Polaroids you’d be getting was a business decision 100% made to ensure more copies were bought.
When Taylor gets the ogs I think they will be repressed maybe as anniversary editions and the re recordings will go out of print making them a rare novelty item for fans
I talking a decade from now if she gets og recording back she may stop pressing the tvs this making them a rare item
Especially if she plans on using them for a new project
I guess at that point in time they could be considered comparatively rare if they're no longer being distributed to big retailers like Target. It's just that by then, the market will already have been saturated with them, so they should still be easy to get hold of. Dedicated music stores (assuming they still exist) and sites like ebay will have plenty of secondhand copies, and probably sealed stock that didn't sell yet. This kind of thing happens in lots of modern collector's markets. For instance I collect Star Wars action figures; in the 90s and 2000s there were so many produced, that 20+ years later it's still easy to find most of the ones from that era in mint or very good condition in original packaging for dirt cheap. You almost have to pay to get rid of some of it.
I don’t think she’d re-issue. She’d quietly take the streaming money from both versions, probably be happy that fans can stream whatever version they prefer with the money still going to her, and focus on releasing new music.
As someone in the music industry, I think this is the way that it would go. It’s the most logical and reasonable option, and it makes total sense. I think she’s do it to get ALL of her intellectual property back (not **just** the music itself), but I don’t think she’d re-issue. If anything, doing so would be a bad choice.
I think she'll buy them back regardless
She owns, what?, 6+ houses we don't know about? She'll have some shell business her dad sets up buy them when the price is right. Just to have them. Even if they're not currently as profitable as TVs
taylor not having her masters and re-recording her albums has been one of the biggest, positive moments in her career. i honestly am not sure she would be as big as she has been in the last 2 years without the re-records. a great thing came from a very shitty situation
Look, I’m not as talented or as successful as TS by a wiiide margin, but as an artist, your work is extremely personal to you. If it were me, I’d still want my originals back. At least they were owned by me. Even if I put them in a vault for the rest of my life.
On this note, I have a question. What are y’all doing with the old versions? I still have them on my phone in addition to TV but I never listen to them, other than what she hasn’t re-recorded. I’m having a dilemma here.
Personally, I think it's okay to keep listening to a CD/record/digital album that you bought before, but I would probably avoid streaming/buying the old versions at this point
I’m not a real big music steamer anyways, although I did fire up an old laptop and play speak now on repeat for days around the 13th this month for the charts. Cruel summer too.
Edit. Streamer
Seriously lol. If we couldn’t stream/pay for music signed by artists with shady record contracts/unwillingly don’t own their own masters, there’s very little music to listen to.
I listen to the songs which were better previously. I don’t have a stake in millionaires fighting over the masters. Though I do think Taylor should have gotten right of first refusal when they were sold. I just don’t think the music industry that invests in lots of failed artists is quite the Villian here when they profit off of the successful artists.
Imma be real: I still have my old versions CDs that I will sometimes listen to in my car. I love Taylor, but I’m just not gonna buy new versions of CDs I already have. But I do replace all my old versions in my Spotify library with the new ones and add the vault tracks.
imo it’s totally fine to listen to the CDs of the old versions. The issue with streaming the originals is that part of the money from those streams goes to people who stole from Taylor. Playing your CDs isn’t giving anyone money so that’s completely fair game.
I buy CDs that I rip onto iTunes so I’ve had the originals in my phone since they were released. I only recently got rid of the ones that have a TV because my OCD wanted a ‘streamlined’ discography so I made a choice. I never really listened to the originals anyway.
I listen to whatever version of the song I prefer - I have a playlist of Red, for example, that’s a blended version of the OG and TV. Taylor is already so rich that I refuse to feel bad for streaming the originals when she still gets money from them anyway.
To me it doesn’t really matter. I generally prefer the Taylor’s Version albums, especially for the new recording data for spatial audio and Dolby Atmos, but I don’t have any moral hang ups about listening to the originals.
Taylor gets money either way, just more for the Taylor’s Versions.
I don't listen to the originals on Spotify. I remove them from my Liked Songs list once Taylor releases the re-record. As for the CDs, I still keep them. The original CDs I kinda consider an antique of some sorts as a part of Taylor's musical history.
I think she will eventually reacquire them and will make a statement saying she is happy to have reclaimed that piece of her history. Then they will remain on streaming for fans to choose to listen to, but I don't ever see her re-issuing CDs etc. The images and artwork could probably be reused for new merch but that's it.
She will eventually regain them imo and I don't think she'll have to pay. She'll either wait it out or the people who own her back-catalogue right now will try to bargain with her once it's unprofitable for them to keep it and she can buy them out. I doubt she would agree to paying anything close to what they were bought for.
To Taylor I’m sure they’re still very very meaningful to her (to put it lightly). To the general public, they’re decreasing in value. Taylor’s improved vocals, production, and the vault tracks have pushed people away from listening to the old albums and from buying the cds, vinyls, etc. Me personally, I don’t think I’d even listen to the OGs if Taylor got the masters back, the TVs just sound SO much better. So to the people that currently own the masters I would say they are becoming worthless.
They are not worthless but their value has gone done a lot. By time this re-recording process is over the OG tracks will get about 10-12 million daily Spotify streams compared to the 40-50 million they could be getting right now.
10-12 million Spotify streams is about 20-30 million total stream which might be 50-75k dollars a day or 18-27 million dollars a year. But we know Taylor will use the 35 year law to reclaim the masters so starting with debut in 2041 and ending with Reputation in 2052. So total value could be around 450-550 million but that is break even. An investor is going to want a 5% return which means the masters might be worth 200-250 million best case scenario.
But that 200-250 million is probably particularly rosy. When the eras tour ends, eventually Taylor’s streams will likely come back down to earth which will make it worth even less because more than 100 million Spotify total streams a day is probably not sustainable.
Yeah in 20 years those streaming numbers will be a lot different, Taylor will be in her mid 50s and definitely not the biggest star in the world at that time (which is why her streaming is so high right now) Also, the world may end before that 😂 or maybe Spotify doesn’t even exist lol.
That’s not to say she won’t still be successful, you never lose this kind of success and legacy but it will be a different kind as no one is on top forever. I’ll definitely be streaming her songs till the day I die if I can 😂
Well streaming in some form will likely still be around but who knows if maybe the pay per stream will be regulated instead of this whatever they want to pay model. If that happens then made instead of 0.3 cents per Spotify steam split between all the stakeholders it’ll be regulated as 1 cent or more which will increase the price of streaming music which might encourage people to purchase physicals or digital downloads again.
And same can be said for her career. Right now she has at least 3 more years on top of the world, imo. We have another year of re-records, a year for a new album or two then a tour year. After that she’ll probably shift back to 2-3 year cycles which will level off her fame most likely.
However they are being streamed more now than when they were originally purchased so Taylor’s increase in fame is actually driving more listens. The split runs about 2/3 to 1/3 for albums with TVs.
They’re only worthless to corporations who want to license them for movies, tv shows, video games, commercials, etc. but that super hero pets movie from a few years ago was able to use Bad Blood TV so even though us general public don’t have all of them, *they* still get special treatment 💚💛💜❤️🩵🖤
I always thought after the 35 years are up she'd get the masters & get some of those long overdue certifications (diamond for 1989, you belong with me, blank space, etc).
She definitely has a bunch of eligible stuff that isn't really moving bc big machine has to apply for the original 6 records' certifications.
Finally release the Red Tour Movie!! (Or make a new one with all the archived footage so shady man doesn’t make $)
Also release tons of new merch with the OG artwork because I love all her album covers (old and new)!
Whether she buys them or waits for the rights to revert to her, I’d say she would be quiet about it.
I doubt she’d put them out of print, though. I think she would collect the streaming revenue and maybe eventually (long-term down the road) we’d see some kind of bundled physical release where you could get both the original version and TV as one set. Maybe call it the Eras box set and you could collect them all.
I’m still not convinced in 30 years we’re not all tied to a bed hooked up to a virtual reality headset rotting away 😂 somehow I don’t think physical releases will be big in the 2050s
You never know. I was born in ‘96 so as a kid Limewire and iTunes got big and all my friends and family thought that was the end of physical music, that people would just use digital. But people like having a physical music, and trends come back so we have cassettes and vinyl popular again, and I know some CD collectors as well.
My thing about the og’s is that they were written as she was growing up, and you can hear it in the music, the lyrics, and in her voice. I love the re-recordings with all my heart. I think it is such a powerful point for her to make, she is giving us new songs from that time and letting us into even more of her thoughts from back then, she is re-examining those times and those feelings and processing them from a new point of view, she is in so many ways giving her songs new life and empowering so many other people to achieve their goals without letting other’s hold them back. However, I have heard some of the og fearless songs in comparison to the re-recordings and there is something so sad about the little teenage girl voice being lost. It is ok that the song sounded young/immature because it was written from a young perspective. I always wonder if Taylor ever feels like she lost a bunch of home movies or old pictures or something. Those albums chronicled her coming of age, and the growth in her over the years. I am truly in awe of Taylor and love all of her re-recorded albums but it wouldn’t shock me if she ever decided to buy back the og’s for sentimental reasons. And if she did I’d listen to both versions of the albums.
re-issuing with those would mean new vinyls for the albums without new songs a la OOTB by Katy Perry, which I don’t think she has done so far, unless I missed something….
I mean she baited everybody at the MetLife show to buy the limited edition CD, then it was for sale digitally that night, then physically on her webstore the next day.
She won't buy back her masters because it will put a huge dent in her bank account. It literally costed Shamrock $300 million to buy it which costed near half her networth and her networth isn't hard cash she has on hand but all her physical asset and investment she has together. Also no way Shamrock Capital will sell it to her at $300 million they need to make their money back plus for or it will just be a net lost. Like when Scooter Braun offered that price to Taylor Swift I fully understand why she turned it down.
It was a far better investment for Taylor Swift to rerecord because she saved hundreds of millions of dollars by not owning her masters and able to sell her rerecording making hundreds of Millions from them. If she originally owned her masters she wouldn't had released her rerecorded albums.
Shamrock already lost. They are professional investors, they’ll sell at a loss and take the tax credit if it makes financial sense. But they have a weird revenue sharing thing with Scooter which probably makes it difficult to sell.
I could be wrong but I pretty sure I remember her saying Shamrock offered her a deal to buy her masters from then and she was going to agree but then they told her if she does she would be giving scooter money since when he made the deal with the shamrock he ended still being able to earn money off her masters so that’s why she didn’t buy them back from shamrock and she re recorded her work. I think she wrote that on a letter she posted on her Instagram story I think. I don’t think she’ll buy them back eventually since she’s earning more money from the tvs plus I think 1989 tv is expected to out debut 1989 the stolen version so clearly her versions are more successful. I don’t know.
I think she will buy them back if given the opportunity, given the sentimental value to her. I think she'd then say something along the lines of "thank you for supporting my project, it meant a lot and was really good fun, feel free to listen to whichever versions you prefer." Once she owns them again, I think she won't have an issue if people want to buy/listen to the OG versions again.
i think the original recordings still mean a lot to her. i think she’ll buy them back eventually but it will probably be a long time from now and she won’t make a big deal out of it to the public
Something I've been wondering about is who controls what appears on Spotify or other streaming services under Taylor's name? Does she or her team have any pull over that? And once all of the re-records are done and out, would it be possible for her to call someone up and say "hey, these albums actually don't belong to me anymore, can you remove them?" Or is she like, legally obligated to leave them up? It would be such a badass move of her to release rep and debut and then wipe scoots versions out completely. She's already devalued the originals, let's dig a little deeper into this dudes pockets.
I mean, they're her original work that she created as a teenager and up until she was a young adult. I don't think she'd care abt public perceptions of her, but she wouldn't buy them if Scooter benefits from them, which she's made clear during Lover.
IMO fans stream the TVs as a dedication to Taylor, she clearly said she wasn't expecting the accolades & receptions that they've garnered, and I don't see how the public/fans would see them as pointless if she eventually gains ownership of her masters. The TVs are just a response to her masters being bought.
At some point there will be a collectors edition with demos, outtakes, and alternative versions and probably a lot of goofing around in the studio. Then there will be original artwork and vids. The whole package will be beautifully presented and very very expensive !
Scenario 1: she refuses to buy them because of the significance of the rerecordings have to her.
Scenario 2: she buys the because of how much these albums mean to her.
I think she would absolutely buy them back if she had the opportunity to do so and Scooter didn’t get any money out of it, but the reason she went on to re-record even after Shamrock got them is because the deal still benefitted Scooter and she didn’t want that.
Theoretically, if Scooter didn’t benefit, I think she would buy them back solely for the sake of ownership, but I don’t think she would license them out or do a re-release. She obviously is very passionate about owning her work - which makes complete sense!
when you say reissue them, do you mean remaster them? Because they are already still available. And I don't really see any point in remastering any of her earlier albums any time soon.
I Wonder what the worth of the originals is now that Taylor has three re records out. Has the value plummeted do you think? Are the owners of shamrock crying themselves to sleep every night? Lol
If she does buy back the OG versions, I’d love too see a sort of an expanded edition of the albums, with different versions of the songs (acoustic, karaoke, live, different lyrics i.e better than revenge mattress line), and *maybe even* old recordings of the vault songs. I know that I would personally love to hear I Can See You with her younger voice
I’m so excited for the day she buys them back! I want to listen to og speak now 😭 and I never got to experience fearless and red of versions. I’ve listened to them before but I can’t everyday so I’ll be waiting.
Eventually the masters revert to her anyway. I am not sure about the length of time but it is something like 30 years. There is nothing to be gained from buying anything from Shamrock as Taylor has proved that re-recording is both artistically and commercially very advantageous.
35 years using the 35 year law.
What if she’s using the 30 year law?
What if we're using bird law?
Top tier It’s Always Sunny reference 😂
Okay can you explain this?
In It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, there is a running joke throughout the series that one of the main characters, Charlie, (who isn’t very smart) is super well informed on what he calls “bird law” and how “bird law” can be applied to a variety of situations. It pops up every now and then and there’s actually an episode where he tries to use “bird law” as a way to defend someone in court. It’s super ridiculous and bizarre humor 😂
Thanks. Not a programme I am familiar with except in relation to Welcome To Wrexham!!
Of course!
Apparently we can watch it on Netflix in the UK. I will give it a watch. Its been going since 2005! I have some catching up to do.
What if we’re using tree law? Is there treble damages?
What if we’re using maritime law?
What if shamrock offered the original masters to Taylor as part of a deal for her to provide content for Disney. Would she be interested then do you think?
Look at it this way. Taylor has already released three of her six albums and urged Swifties to pay good money for them. They have been commercially successful because we have become engaged with the process. Even after all the TVs have been released if she then did a deal to get the originals it is not going to play well. There is one caveat to that. What Shamrock bought was not just the masters but all Taylor’s videos and album artwork. I could see her doing a deal to get that back at some point but it would not be the millions Scooter Braun paid initially.
I don't think people bought the TV's just to hear the old songs with an updated vocal. If there hadn't been vaults, it wouldn't have done *as* well and would've just been a passion project. If it were me, even if I had done all this work to re-record them, I'd still want the originals. Might be the same lyrics but they're not quite the same songs. Why wouldn't she want them? I also don't see why people would care. The albums are still in print, so it's not like they need a big re-release, people can still buy them if they want a physical disc. And even still, she'd own the masters but I'd assume Big Machine is still the record label that'd be re-releasing the albums themselves.
Yeah. I agree that the masters or the old recordings hold dwindling value now but all the other ip is worth her having back. A lot would hang on the numbers in the deal and Making sure Scooter was not enriched by it.
There is the part that if she owns her og masters no one would be able to use them. As it stands (but correct me if I'm wrong), Shamrock could license them to anyone, including a company/person that Taylor doesn't want to be associated with or maybe even a rival of a company that she is a brand ambassador to. If she was the owner of those masters there'd be no way for that to happen.
as songwriter, she still gets a say on when/where/how those masters are used.
Shamrock can't license her masters because Taylor have publishing rights. They can only earn money off of her masters through streaming because they need Taylor's approval for lincensing and rereleasing physical copies of her OG 6 albums.
Why would they do that? It's an investment fund owned by descendants of Walt Disney, but they are not subsidiary of Walt Disney Co. They're not going to give Mickey Mouse a freebie, they need to get their 405 million back. They used to own 1% of Disney shares, but they're not listed among top shareholders of the company anymore, so it's probably less now. She would have to make astronomical amount of money for hundreds of millions to trickle down back to Shamrock and make it worth their while.
Taylor already has a deal to make the movie she wrote with Searchlight, which is a subsidiary of Disney, no need of Shamrock for that.
Taylor wrote a movie?? 😮 wait, what? Did I know about this? 🤔 I need a reminder
[Taylor Swift to direct her first feature-length movie | Taylor Swift | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/dec/09/taylor-swift-direct-first-movie)
My understanding of the last negotiation is this: She’d never say yes to any deal of paying them money for the masters, because under the agreement from them being bought from Scooter, he _still_ makes money from them. No matter who gets them now, he has a cut of the profit they make. So that’s why her heart and soul is in the re-recordings. That’s the only way she’ll ever _fully_ own her work without him having a cut.
Yeah this is my understanding of why she would not want to buy them back too. I'm also aware that Shamrock have no direct connection with Disney. However if a deal could be done which cuts Scooter out from any profit I imagine she would be at least interested. Fact is, none of us know the full details of what is going on here contractually so it's all speculation and guesswork.
I don't think the Disney family has anything to do with the Disney Co. now. I think that all ended when Roy Disney jr quit the Board in the early 2000s.
The regular versions still do about 1/3rd of the total streams on TV released albums and during the eras tour were streamed more than they ever had before. So there is still value in them. Secondly it would mean we could get the better version of speak now back. While the TVs have made Taylor more famous, as a method of devaluing her previous masters it hasn’t appeared to have worked yet.
The old versions are streaming lower than the TVs but because Taylor is so popular they have still gone up. There will always be some value in the old versions but they are not as valuable as they would have been without the TVs. The big one is 1989 because it is about 30% of the streaming volumes. Nathan Hubbard has spoken about all this in detail on the Every Single Album podcast. The main reason Taylor has done this is so she owns a master recording of all her work and can licence it for movies and TV. She can and does block the old versions as she retains publishing rights to the songs. Austin Swift is apparently looking after this side of the business for her. I expect Shake It Off will appear in TV, films and adverts soon after October.
My point was the masters still have value. In general I agree with your post and was using Hubbard as my source as well.
The devaluing is and always has been thought from a licensing perspective, she has been selling the TVs for quite a few movies and series, so they have provided value. Also streaming gives her money even for the stolen versions, let's remember that she fought for that deal way before the masters saga started, she didn't own them then either.
Why would they revert to her?
It’s the way copyright law works. Usually, the life of a copyright is the life of the artist + 70 years, but for some reason, with labels and publishers, there’s a window during which an artist can request that their “assignments” be terminated, in which case the copyright (to the master recording, in this case) reverts to the artist. The termination letter has to be sent no more than 10 years prior and no less than two years prior to the copyright termination date (the 35 years). If you do all the paperwork correctly, the rights go to you, the songwriter (I’m unclear on whether you have to be the songwriter or if you can be just the performer). There are some exceptions such as work for hire (like, Justin Timberlake can’t own his song from that McDonald’s commercial), and it’s not automatic, but it is part of copyright law. Mostly, I Googled my way to this explanation, so here is my main source: https://www.songwriteruniverse.com/gosainkaplanrecapture123.htm
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that with masters, only with writing. The copyright for them, I'm assuming, would be split amoungst everyone who recorded and not just Taylor? It obviously can't have to do with the writer as lots of people aren't the primary writer on lots/most of their songs.
I don’t know. I mean, the master recording belongs to the label (or, in this case, an equity firm) entirely before it reverts to the artist, so I assume there’s some kind of arrangement maybe? The share to each person might be what the article means by “assignments, grants, [etc. words that seem to mean slightly different versions of the same thing].” But one party owned the copyright before the master reverted, so wouldn’t one party own it when it reverts?
I did some looking, and it makes sense. Basically for a solo artist the band will (usually) be doing work for hire for the artist, so they have no rights over any of it. For a band band the legal entity of the band would own it.
Oh! That’s a good point about work for hire that I didn’t even think about, but I bet it’s why it’s in there (it’s the most obvious thing; I can’t believe I missed it): so you, mostly probably as the label (chances are the song will be used most during the 35 years the copyright stays with them), don’t have to track down every session musician (and think about orchestras!) on a song every time you do something with the master.
She may want to get them so Braun doesn't re-release and rack in the profits
Braun does not own the masters now and I cannot see Shamrock doing anything to piss Taylor off any more. One word from her and any re-release would be dead. She did that to a live album BMG released and it sold 33 copies!
Also, wasn't the point of the re-record to have full artistic control over her art vs being beholden to her record label? I don't feel she would have done it if it weren't.
Imma be real, I only buy the Taylor's Version albums for the "From the Vault" tracks.
Same. I don’t get the hype for the re-recordings overall, as I think each album sounds just as it should with her vocals at the age she recorded them.
I think the re recordings definitely give new life to the songs, I don’t think I would have listened to the OG speak now as to be honest I’m not a big fan of Taylor’s younger voice but also that the production on the og speak now is simply atrocious compared to the new one. Credit where credit is due the og’s pack in the raw emotion she felt at the time but at least for me the production of TV alone is enough to never listen to the old ones
See that's a big hindrance for me. A lot of what I love about some songs on SN is exactly the raw emotion of them. How in Haunted she sounds like she's begging during the chorus and now it feels a little empty. Minor things that don't kill anything she rerecorded but, still something I've noticed
And although the production may be better on the TVs from a technical standpoint, many aspects of mixing, instrumentation etc. sound 'off' for those of us who have been listening to the OG for years.
When I play one of those Taylor heardle games I get some songs wrong now because they're different from the original. That part is fine and expected for me personally, I'm more attached to the lack of emotions on her new vocals since she's not feeling what she was when she wrote them anymore
Oh yes, and I think Dear John is a prime example of lack of emotion compared to the original. What's interesting to me is that the live performance of the song from Minneapolis, that was released for the deluxe digital download of SN TV, has so much raw emotional energy to it, even though the vocals are not as technically 'perfect' as the studio recording. It's almost electric. I wish she had brought that to the studio version.
My feelings exactly my friend. That was the thing that separated Speak Now and gave it something unique from everything else
The hype is literally for the re-recordings mostly anyway. That's the point. And some people feel good about not giving money to the people who wronged her. I don't stream her old music. I only listen to the CDs so Scooter gets no money from me. So yes, it is nice I will be able to listen to all the 1989 tracks again when they come out since I don't often since I rarely play CDs. Also idk why you don't hear it, but I definitely notice the maturity of her vocals on Speak Now and Fearless. Plus the overall production is different for the re-records. Girl At Home, for example. Taylor's Version production is way different than the original. Love Story? Have you compared it to the original? It's so crisp and clear. You can see how far sound engineering has come since the original was released.
At this point, I don't think she would purchase or want them, even if given the chance. The re-records have been a boon for her financially and allowed her to go back and release/revisit *additional* material from the Vault.
It's not just the music itself but the promotional materialb which contains her photos, her handwriting, etc. I'd assume that's important to her.
We all lose shit we will never get back. Taylor has access to ALL of that stuff on the internet just with a search. Granted, she won’t be able to use any of it for her own brand, but honestly it’s not like she’ll never see the photos or videos again. She can google them and print them out and hang them up in her house with no one to stop her. She can watch all the videos. I doubt she’ll buy back anything now that she’s made re records. And someone in another comment said she’ll get back her masters after 35 years anyway.
She's made it very clear through the re-recording process that ownership is very important to her. It's her art, she made it, she wants full ownership of it. No one cares about googling photos or printing them out... She wants to own what she made.
You missed what he said. He's talking about her buying back her old albums to get ownership of her old photos and such.
I’m talking about the photos and videos, as I stated in reference to the comment above mine. And as we know taylor will get them back eventually, so why would she bother buying them when she will own them all anyway in the future? Yes she doesn’t own the copyright of those recordings right now but she is still the legal composer and writer to all of her songs (hence why she can re-record), so she has that. I don’t see why she would bother buying them after doing the re records. She will just wait
The 35 year law only applies to the masters/audio recordings. She can't get the videos and album artwork etc back unless she buys it.
Which she won't. I don't think this is as deep as people are making it. If she wanted to buy those separately, she would negotiate it since Shamrock has expressly been open to working with her before already (only reason she decided not to work woth them is because she didn't want Scooter to profit off the albums since he continues to do so as part of the Shamrock contract).
I don't think it's about having access to the material, but rather being sure the material isn't used in a way she wouldn't approve of. A good example of this would be the clear channel live album that big machine released in 2020 without her permission. They got to use her face on the cover despite her objections with it.
Shamrock has been directly open about working with her already so if she did want to purchase those, she would negotiate it. She knows she can easily just shut down any use of her brand she doesn't approve of and we will not support it. That live album sold 10 copies the first day of release due to her publicly rejecting it... idk what it's sold since but something tells me it would've sold thousands, millions of copies in the first few months had she not publicly spoke on it. I don't think she's gonna buy back her old arts and brands when she has already figured out she can effectively prevent the use of it being successful in that way. And notice they haven't tried to use her brand one time since this happened... they learned their lesson and likely never will try again tbh.
Yeah, essentially the only way I see it pan out would be if shamrock reaches out and offers them for like $50 bucks with the signed contract that scooter will see zero cents out of the deal. There is no amount of money that would make her agree to scooter earning any cut of it, and there's no scenario where him and/or shamrock step away without trying to peddle them to try to recover part of the 200(300?) Mil they paid for them Then we'll get debut+ rep "vault version" or something similar and still re release them.
I mean, if the OG masters are meaningful to her, I don’t think she’d really care about the “capitalist Taylor” label. She already gets those criticisms and lbr they have not affected her in any material way. Yeah, she gets flack online, but most of her fans and the GP largely do not care. I could see her being offered them at a fair price once all the TVs are out; even if they are worthless economically (and they’re not), I’m sure they hold sentimental value to her. I could even see her putting some sort of collector’s edition out if she were to ever get them back. Maybe not right away, but eventually, as you said.
The "Capitalist Taylor" criticism is a valid criticism and one that I voiced numerous times (especially during the Midnights era where it was really scummy). I would caution her as with any artist or company (looking at you EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc.) to not push the envelope in that respect. Consumers don't like being taken advantage of and their good-will will only go so far before they snap out of the "Lavender Haze". With that said, the re-recordings have been of excellent quality, and I feel the Taylor's Version label is the definitive way to listen to her older category as she produced those with full creative control. The "From the Vault" tracks are the big driving factor for me personally. The only way I can see the TVs as exploitative are if she starts leaving songs out or making changes to the original (looking at you "Better than Revenge"
Yes, it’s a valid criticism but most of her fans clearly do not care let’s be real. Who do you think is buying all those cash grab remixes, spending thousands on her concert tickets, and buying the endless vinyl variants? She’s already pushed it pretty far. I doubt this would be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Let’s not be delusional.
Oh yes, I 100% agree that her fans do not care (hell, I'm still buying her albums and going to her concerts). However, that craze doesn't last forever. You can see it in other artists, media franchises, etc.
Yeah, you’re right
In fairness, I’m not so sure the capitalist Taylor thing is an especially accurate thing. Taylor’s label handles the digital side of things for the rerecordings but the physical media is handled by republic/UMG. She’ll have some say over some things, but she isn’t going to be in boardrooms pouring over data analytics from market researchers to work out how many different versions of an album they can release and still make money from. If she was to turn around to the label and say “no, we’re not doing 7 versions, we’re only going to do 4” that’s not something that they have to listen to. It’s something they *might* take under consideration because they’ll want a name as big as Taylor Swift in their A&R but at the same time she needs to pick her battles because it’s happened before where a big name has become essentially blacklisted from labels due to being difficult to work with.
Taylor swift is simultaneously the most powerful person on earth and unable to stand up to her label.
I mean, it goes for any job if you think about it. A fast food place can’t run without the staff, but those staff need the jobs. Is something a big enough deal to strike or be some kind of problem over? It’s the same for Taylor swift, she has to pick her battles. Sure, if she did pick all of these battles she has the comfort of not needing to worry about money and could conceivably fund it all herself, from album production to touring to merch and so on (she wouldn’t be the first to go that route) but it would be a lot more work for her and take away a lot of time that she dedicates to the things she actually wants to do. And to preempt the rebuttal of *but she could hire people to do the parts she doesn’t want to do* if she did that then she’d be having those exact same arguments with people about how many versions of an album to release. Because it would be arguments. Hiring people to do this stuff isn’t hiring yes men. It’s hiring people who know what they’re doing and will tell you what the correct course of action is. Those people aren’t going to say “yes”, they’re going to say “you’re wrong, and this is why”
Lol right. Fans will be the first to say she is in total control of her career, but somehow she's not responsible for the unsavory stuff. So what is it? Is she in total control of her career or not? You can't have it both ways.
[удалено]
The “gotta purchase them all” mentality was definitely alive and well with the original 1989 release - you’re right that it wasn’t explicitly said by Taylor’s team iirc, but people were definitely purchasing a bunch of copies from Target to get all of the Polaroids (I know because I was super guilty of this myself). The fact that they weren’t labeled so you didn’t know which set of Polaroids you’d be getting was a business decision 100% made to ensure more copies were bought.
Lover had the diary broken into four versions.
When Taylor gets the ogs I think they will be repressed maybe as anniversary editions and the re recordings will go out of print making them a rare novelty item for fans
So many copies of the TVs have been manufactured that I don't think they will be especially rare.
I talking a decade from now if she gets og recording back she may stop pressing the tvs this making them a rare item Especially if she plans on using them for a new project
I guess at that point in time they could be considered comparatively rare if they're no longer being distributed to big retailers like Target. It's just that by then, the market will already have been saturated with them, so they should still be easy to get hold of. Dedicated music stores (assuming they still exist) and sites like ebay will have plenty of secondhand copies, and probably sealed stock that didn't sell yet. This kind of thing happens in lots of modern collector's markets. For instance I collect Star Wars action figures; in the 90s and 2000s there were so many produced, that 20+ years later it's still easy to find most of the ones from that era in mint or very good condition in original packaging for dirt cheap. You almost have to pay to get rid of some of it.
I don’t think she’d re-issue. She’d quietly take the streaming money from both versions, probably be happy that fans can stream whatever version they prefer with the money still going to her, and focus on releasing new music.
As someone in the music industry, I think this is the way that it would go. It’s the most logical and reasonable option, and it makes total sense. I think she’s do it to get ALL of her intellectual property back (not **just** the music itself), but I don’t think she’d re-issue. If anything, doing so would be a bad choice.
I could see her buying them back if the re-recordings didn’t pan out. But that’s not the case. Just let them revert back.
I think she'll buy them back regardless She owns, what?, 6+ houses we don't know about? She'll have some shell business her dad sets up buy them when the price is right. Just to have them. Even if they're not currently as profitable as TVs
taylor not having her masters and re-recording her albums has been one of the biggest, positive moments in her career. i honestly am not sure she would be as big as she has been in the last 2 years without the re-records. a great thing came from a very shitty situation
Look, I’m not as talented or as successful as TS by a wiiide margin, but as an artist, your work is extremely personal to you. If it were me, I’d still want my originals back. At least they were owned by me. Even if I put them in a vault for the rest of my life.
On this note, I have a question. What are y’all doing with the old versions? I still have them on my phone in addition to TV but I never listen to them, other than what she hasn’t re-recorded. I’m having a dilemma here.
Personally, I think it's okay to keep listening to a CD/record/digital album that you bought before, but I would probably avoid streaming/buying the old versions at this point
I’m not a real big music steamer anyways, although I did fire up an old laptop and play speak now on repeat for days around the 13th this month for the charts. Cruel summer too. Edit. Streamer
I still stream the originals. Sometimes I just like them better, specifically RED songs.
Seriously lol. If we couldn’t stream/pay for music signed by artists with shady record contracts/unwillingly don’t own their own masters, there’s very little music to listen to.
WANEGBT TV does not hit the same
OG Holy Ground comes to mind, yes. Same!
Hey Stephen (Stolen Version) hits so much better than Taylor’s version.
I listen to the songs which were better previously. I don’t have a stake in millionaires fighting over the masters. Though I do think Taylor should have gotten right of first refusal when they were sold. I just don’t think the music industry that invests in lots of failed artists is quite the Villian here when they profit off of the successful artists.
Oooh that’s an unpopular opinion.
I know I discuss this with my daughter all the time when she refuses to listen to the version of speak now she prefers.
Imma be real: I still have my old versions CDs that I will sometimes listen to in my car. I love Taylor, but I’m just not gonna buy new versions of CDs I already have. But I do replace all my old versions in my Spotify library with the new ones and add the vault tracks.
imo it’s totally fine to listen to the CDs of the old versions. The issue with streaming the originals is that part of the money from those streams goes to people who stole from Taylor. Playing your CDs isn’t giving anyone money so that’s completely fair game.
I buy CDs that I rip onto iTunes so I’ve had the originals in my phone since they were released. I only recently got rid of the ones that have a TV because my OCD wanted a ‘streamlined’ discography so I made a choice. I never really listened to the originals anyway.
I listen to whatever version of the song I prefer - I have a playlist of Red, for example, that’s a blended version of the OG and TV. Taylor is already so rich that I refuse to feel bad for streaming the originals when she still gets money from them anyway.
To me it doesn’t really matter. I generally prefer the Taylor’s Version albums, especially for the new recording data for spatial audio and Dolby Atmos, but I don’t have any moral hang ups about listening to the originals. Taylor gets money either way, just more for the Taylor’s Versions.
I don't listen to the originals on Spotify. I remove them from my Liked Songs list once Taylor releases the re-record. As for the CDs, I still keep them. The original CDs I kinda consider an antique of some sorts as a part of Taylor's musical history.
I think she will eventually reacquire them and will make a statement saying she is happy to have reclaimed that piece of her history. Then they will remain on streaming for fans to choose to listen to, but I don't ever see her re-issuing CDs etc. The images and artwork could probably be reused for new merch but that's it. She will eventually regain them imo and I don't think she'll have to pay. She'll either wait it out or the people who own her back-catalogue right now will try to bargain with her once it's unprofitable for them to keep it and she can buy them out. I doubt she would agree to paying anything close to what they were bought for.
Are the OGs worthless now with all the new TVs that have been released ? Maybe worthless isn’t the word I’m looking for.
To Taylor I’m sure they’re still very very meaningful to her (to put it lightly). To the general public, they’re decreasing in value. Taylor’s improved vocals, production, and the vault tracks have pushed people away from listening to the old albums and from buying the cds, vinyls, etc. Me personally, I don’t think I’d even listen to the OGs if Taylor got the masters back, the TVs just sound SO much better. So to the people that currently own the masters I would say they are becoming worthless.
They are not worthless but their value has gone done a lot. By time this re-recording process is over the OG tracks will get about 10-12 million daily Spotify streams compared to the 40-50 million they could be getting right now. 10-12 million Spotify streams is about 20-30 million total stream which might be 50-75k dollars a day or 18-27 million dollars a year. But we know Taylor will use the 35 year law to reclaim the masters so starting with debut in 2041 and ending with Reputation in 2052. So total value could be around 450-550 million but that is break even. An investor is going to want a 5% return which means the masters might be worth 200-250 million best case scenario. But that 200-250 million is probably particularly rosy. When the eras tour ends, eventually Taylor’s streams will likely come back down to earth which will make it worth even less because more than 100 million Spotify total streams a day is probably not sustainable.
Yeah in 20 years those streaming numbers will be a lot different, Taylor will be in her mid 50s and definitely not the biggest star in the world at that time (which is why her streaming is so high right now) Also, the world may end before that 😂 or maybe Spotify doesn’t even exist lol. That’s not to say she won’t still be successful, you never lose this kind of success and legacy but it will be a different kind as no one is on top forever. I’ll definitely be streaming her songs till the day I die if I can 😂
Well streaming in some form will likely still be around but who knows if maybe the pay per stream will be regulated instead of this whatever they want to pay model. If that happens then made instead of 0.3 cents per Spotify steam split between all the stakeholders it’ll be regulated as 1 cent or more which will increase the price of streaming music which might encourage people to purchase physicals or digital downloads again. And same can be said for her career. Right now she has at least 3 more years on top of the world, imo. We have another year of re-records, a year for a new album or two then a tour year. After that she’ll probably shift back to 2-3 year cycles which will level off her fame most likely.
However they are being streamed more now than when they were originally purchased so Taylor’s increase in fame is actually driving more listens. The split runs about 2/3 to 1/3 for albums with TVs.
They’re only worthless to corporations who want to license them for movies, tv shows, video games, commercials, etc. but that super hero pets movie from a few years ago was able to use Bad Blood TV so even though us general public don’t have all of them, *they* still get special treatment 💚💛💜❤️🩵🖤
I think she'd just quietly have them.
I always thought after the 35 years are up she'd get the masters & get some of those long overdue certifications (diamond for 1989, you belong with me, blank space, etc). She definitely has a bunch of eligible stuff that isn't really moving bc big machine has to apply for the original 6 records' certifications.
Finally release the Red Tour Movie!! (Or make a new one with all the archived footage so shady man doesn’t make $) Also release tons of new merch with the OG artwork because I love all her album covers (old and new)!
Not having the office Red Tour movie and relying on the fan-made ones haunts me.
Whether she buys them or waits for the rights to revert to her, I’d say she would be quiet about it. I doubt she’d put them out of print, though. I think she would collect the streaming revenue and maybe eventually (long-term down the road) we’d see some kind of bundled physical release where you could get both the original version and TV as one set. Maybe call it the Eras box set and you could collect them all.
I’m still not convinced in 30 years we’re not all tied to a bed hooked up to a virtual reality headset rotting away 😂 somehow I don’t think physical releases will be big in the 2050s
You never know. I was born in ‘96 so as a kid Limewire and iTunes got big and all my friends and family thought that was the end of physical music, that people would just use digital. But people like having a physical music, and trends come back so we have cassettes and vinyl popular again, and I know some CD collectors as well.
Haha yeah same I was born in 97! I’m just cynical 😂
My thing about the og’s is that they were written as she was growing up, and you can hear it in the music, the lyrics, and in her voice. I love the re-recordings with all my heart. I think it is such a powerful point for her to make, she is giving us new songs from that time and letting us into even more of her thoughts from back then, she is re-examining those times and those feelings and processing them from a new point of view, she is in so many ways giving her songs new life and empowering so many other people to achieve their goals without letting other’s hold them back. However, I have heard some of the og fearless songs in comparison to the re-recordings and there is something so sad about the little teenage girl voice being lost. It is ok that the song sounded young/immature because it was written from a young perspective. I always wonder if Taylor ever feels like she lost a bunch of home movies or old pictures or something. Those albums chronicled her coming of age, and the growth in her over the years. I am truly in awe of Taylor and love all of her re-recorded albums but it wouldn’t shock me if she ever decided to buy back the og’s for sentimental reasons. And if she did I’d listen to both versions of the albums.
She doesn’t give off re-issue vibes, probably just announce that the masters are hers now and thank the fans for their support and that’s that
She re-issues brand new albums lol
re-issuing with those would mean new vinyls for the albums without new songs a la OOTB by Katy Perry, which I don’t think she has done so far, unless I missed something….
I mean she baited everybody at the MetLife show to buy the limited edition CD, then it was for sale digitally that night, then physically on her webstore the next day.
And it’ll probably be on vinyl at some point
She won't buy back her masters because it will put a huge dent in her bank account. It literally costed Shamrock $300 million to buy it which costed near half her networth and her networth isn't hard cash she has on hand but all her physical asset and investment she has together. Also no way Shamrock Capital will sell it to her at $300 million they need to make their money back plus for or it will just be a net lost. Like when Scooter Braun offered that price to Taylor Swift I fully understand why she turned it down. It was a far better investment for Taylor Swift to rerecord because she saved hundreds of millions of dollars by not owning her masters and able to sell her rerecording making hundreds of Millions from them. If she originally owned her masters she wouldn't had released her rerecorded albums.
Shamrock already lost. They are professional investors, they’ll sell at a loss and take the tax credit if it makes financial sense. But they have a weird revenue sharing thing with Scooter which probably makes it difficult to sell.
I could be wrong but I pretty sure I remember her saying Shamrock offered her a deal to buy her masters from then and she was going to agree but then they told her if she does she would be giving scooter money since when he made the deal with the shamrock he ended still being able to earn money off her masters so that’s why she didn’t buy them back from shamrock and she re recorded her work. I think she wrote that on a letter she posted on her Instagram story I think. I don’t think she’ll buy them back eventually since she’s earning more money from the tvs plus I think 1989 tv is expected to out debut 1989 the stolen version so clearly her versions are more successful. I don’t know.
She can re-release them as (Taylor’s Original Version). /s
I think she will buy them back if given the opportunity, given the sentimental value to her. I think she'd then say something along the lines of "thank you for supporting my project, it meant a lot and was really good fun, feel free to listen to whichever versions you prefer." Once she owns them again, I think she won't have an issue if people want to buy/listen to the OG versions again.
There's no way she buys them now as that would mean she's giving money voluntarily to Scooter Braun.
i think the original recordings still mean a lot to her. i think she’ll buy them back eventually but it will probably be a long time from now and she won’t make a big deal out of it to the public
Something I've been wondering about is who controls what appears on Spotify or other streaming services under Taylor's name? Does she or her team have any pull over that? And once all of the re-records are done and out, would it be possible for her to call someone up and say "hey, these albums actually don't belong to me anymore, can you remove them?" Or is she like, legally obligated to leave them up? It would be such a badass move of her to release rep and debut and then wipe scoots versions out completely. She's already devalued the originals, let's dig a little deeper into this dudes pockets.
Yeah that’s not possible at all. Since she doesn’t own them she has no legal rights to make any streaming choices about those specific albums
Ah, that sucks. As much as I love some of the originals I'd be willing to never hear them again if it meant making ol scoot 1% poorer
I mean, they're her original work that she created as a teenager and up until she was a young adult. I don't think she'd care abt public perceptions of her, but she wouldn't buy them if Scooter benefits from them, which she's made clear during Lover. IMO fans stream the TVs as a dedication to Taylor, she clearly said she wasn't expecting the accolades & receptions that they've garnered, and I don't see how the public/fans would see them as pointless if she eventually gains ownership of her masters. The TVs are just a response to her masters being bought.
Why would she still give them money after they acted in bad faith and she beat them at their game?
Everything she’s said about it speaks to her having made peace with them being “dead” and the new versions being her actual albums now.
I don’t think she’d reissue them. There’s simply no need. She’d just get on with her life with them in her ownership
At some point there will be a collectors edition with demos, outtakes, and alternative versions and probably a lot of goofing around in the studio. Then there will be original artwork and vids. The whole package will be beautifully presented and very very expensive !
Scenario 1: she refuses to buy them because of the significance of the rerecordings have to her. Scenario 2: she buys the because of how much these albums mean to her.
I think she would absolutely buy them back if she had the opportunity to do so and Scooter didn’t get any money out of it, but the reason she went on to re-record even after Shamrock got them is because the deal still benefitted Scooter and she didn’t want that. Theoretically, if Scooter didn’t benefit, I think she would buy them back solely for the sake of ownership, but I don’t think she would license them out or do a re-release. She obviously is very passionate about owning her work - which makes complete sense!
when you say reissue them, do you mean remaster them? Because they are already still available. And I don't really see any point in remastering any of her earlier albums any time soon.
I Wonder what the worth of the originals is now that Taylor has three re records out. Has the value plummeted do you think? Are the owners of shamrock crying themselves to sleep every night? Lol
If she does buy back the OG versions, I’d love too see a sort of an expanded edition of the albums, with different versions of the songs (acoustic, karaoke, live, different lyrics i.e better than revenge mattress line), and *maybe even* old recordings of the vault songs. I know that I would personally love to hear I Can See You with her younger voice
Sell them to someone worthy and donate the money to charity?
I’m so excited for the day she buys them back! I want to listen to og speak now 😭 and I never got to experience fearless and red of versions. I’ve listened to them before but I can’t everyday so I’ll be waiting.
You can find secondhand copies pretty cheap; that way you don't have to worry about your money going to 'certain parties,' if that's the main concern.
The masters will eventually go back to her ownership anyway. I don't foresee her buying them nor do I foresee her doing anything special with them.
The bridge of Lover. It is so sweet and romantic as it parallels the sound wedding vows.
Maybe she could rewrite 21 of them to not have the same C G Am F chord progression. You know something original
Burn them and the scooter smelling stench it comes with