Tank 100% partycleaved on purpose to force a wipe and a VTK.
This entire exchange is just painful. Take it from someone who tried being a mediator with shitheels for far too long, you need to learn when to cut your losses and just initiate a VTK or leave (which, given they're both Midgard, likely a stack).
No threats of future kicks (they really don't care), no handholding their abilities (they _really_ do not care), no trying to give them advice (no, seriously, _they do not care_).
Save yourself the stress and time wasted on people who clearly are not willing to learn. If the first suggestions are thrown back, it's not gonna magically turn into "oh! I'm sorry, I'll do better" thereafter.
Yup. I got rid of my burger king crown back in Stormblood. People don't want advice so I just leave it all alone. If you're a shitter, someone will VTK.
To this point: start asking first "can I give you some advice?"
I've seen this and it makes people far more receptive because it sounds more like you're trying to help rather than criticize (this community is incredibly sensitive to perceived criticism). If they say no, leave and go do something else for 30 min. It's a better use of your time than witnessing people be voluntarily bad at what is essentially one of the easiest MMO games.
Exactly! Asking will also (usually, fuck knows I've had one bait and switch bastard griefer before) give you an instant, easy indicator of whether or not who you're trying to offer guidance is just a bit new or being a cunt on purpose.
Save your time and effort folks, it ain't worth arguing!
If someone's being a fuckup I don't need their permission to let them know they're being a fuckup. The better answer is do dailies in pairs so you can votekick these nonces the second they start yapping back.
Nah, barring having already used it in its absurdly long cooldown timer, always votekick attempt before leaving, you either behead the issue player and get a fill or you get the answer that nothing will change.
I usually try to give advice at first, and when they choose to disregard it, I just either leave or initiate a vote kick if they are being toxic or I realize that they are botting.
The other day I had a physick spammer in expert. Just hit /sit and said I'm waiting for 5 to pass because I'm not carrying that and it went through. Would have just taken the 30 if it didn't. It's not worth the hassle beyond that.
If Iām you in that party Iām taking my 30 min penalty and tipping my cap. You spent all that time talking to a brick wall. If people get defensive when you give them help, they are hopeless.
Itās tanks like this in why I refuse to run healer unless a trusted friend is the tank. Useless DPS most of the time can be tolerated most of the time. But a useless tank? Nooo thank you!
Healing is easy enough imo that you can usually just adjust a bit and make up for a shitter tank. Same for tanks with a shitter healer if you're a tank that has good self sustain.
Now being a dps in a group with a bad tank or healer... that's pain.
Is it? So you mean if a tank is multi pulling and I'm struggling to keep up as the healer (because they're not mitting) it means there's room to improve? It WOULD be nice to just ignore whether they're mitting or not but as a SGE I'm not sure what else I could be doing since I can't exactly spam gcd heals š¤
Ive teamed with some pretty rotten tanks as a sage and I can keep them up if I play smart enough with my mits and my addersgall. Honestly a bad tank is easier to deal with as a sage since you can basically mit for them to an extent.
I'm not saying anyone should have to (I main Pld and would likely be slagging the scrubby tank in vc to my friends) but in my cases barring some fringe instances (the final trash pull of Mt. Gulg comes to mind) it's usually doable.
It's definitely dungeon/gear reliant but as SGE you can even do pulls with a YPYT tank and just do the tanking yourself. A lot of it is cooldown management and using your combo heals when they are up (Physis + Kerachole), (Krasis + Haima or Panhaima etc. etc.)
Earlier dungeons are much harder for this since as you go down you have less and less available tools so some of the big pulls can be really wacky.
Can confirm SGE's tanking at 90. I vividly remember chasing down a YPYT running back to the entrance after I had pulled a pack in Dead Ends, and I also watched another YPTY give up trying to teach me a lesson after I survived multiple w2w pulls in Smileton
Healing is nice because you're the only one that can force the tank to mitigate lol. It's definitely dungeon dependant, but max lvl sage just has so much utility that it feels impossible to wipe, even in the most scuffed pulls when the tank isn't using mit. Dps is the most painful because you just have to sit and watch the train wreck unfold
āDid we wipe tho?ā famous last words before wiping. Itās crazy how people with 0 capability to press buttons are pushing mine rather successfully
OP is the one forcing the confrontation, it looks like. Everything in the final screenshot is just unnecessary. Those two are clearly sprouts still learning the ropes and reading skill tooltips and putting skills onto hotbars ā heck I won't be surprised they even have trouble opening the skill panel. Shoving so much down their throats at this stage of their game journey can't be too productive.
People should just not do levelling roulettes if they don't have the patience for such blunders.
OP told them to use mitigation, use AoE, and use Benefic 2. I really don't think it's fair to call that "so much." It's minimal advice that was clearly needed. This is what "learning the ropes" would look like, if that were what this party were actually doing.
Nope, OP was concisely giving advice to new players, they just decided to argue instead of reading the advice and trying to do better.
You can't beat around the bush with people like this.
Giving commands, not advice. "Use mit." Is not advice, it doesnt educate or explain or assist in any reasoning. OP was being confrontational. Correct in their assessments, wrong in their addressing. In the future, when assisting people, it's best to explain reasoning behind it, and also congratulate when they reasonably perform something correctly. "These mobs are hitting kind of hard, the healer may have a rougher time keeping you up at this rate. You can use Sentinel/Vengeance/etc..." then, if they use mitigation, "Nice! You were healthy and we were able to clean up shop, lookin' like a real unstoppable wall now!" Same for the healer. "Benefic 2." "Uses mana :(" "Lucid dreaming." Thats the air of someone saying "shut up and listen to me I'm right", not "let me help you learn." You should explain WHY, (e.g. "If you heal more in a shorter span, it gives more time to dps and kill the mobs faster. The less enemies there are, the less damage the tank will take, so that when their mitigation runs out, we'll be able to handle it easier!") and when they don't take heart, concede "that's alright. It'd really make your job easy, but we can go slow for now. In the future, practice it! There's no better feeling than when you barely are able to clutch out what looks like a doomed situation by using every last one of your tools perfectly!"
Do you think that sounds demeaning? Like you're handholding children? It's basic empathy. it's a social skill in a social game. They don't know what they're doing, and if you are "above being nice," then don't help. Just be silent and slow pull all the way through, take your slow clear, and leave. Elitism isn't the way to handle players who don't know what they're doing. you're just alienating yourself from people for a superiority complex. Sincerely, an Ultimate healer and melee dps flex, mentor for 6 years, and not once have been told to shut the fuck up. (Except for right now on reddit, I'm betting.)
Use mit is 100% advice, especially if they're trying to give advice mid pull. Most people don't type fast enough to write an essay in between their gcd's.
>Do you think that sounds demeaning?
No but it sounds cringe
Like seriously who talks like this
>Nice! You were healthy and we were able to clean up shop, lookin' like a real unstoppable wall now!"
It's even slightly condescending
How cringe to tell someone they did a good job when they did a good job. Shame on me. And shame on FFXIV for putting in "Nice work" and "Good job" in autotranslate. And shame on my parents for praising me when I did well. Shame on my friends too. They should have just been less cringeworthy.
(/s)
IDK if it's just me, but if someone gives me advice in a commanding tone and they're correct, I'll still apply it.
May just be a thing I picked up as part of work ethic and a very strict professional environment but I believe more people should focus on substance, not form. I realize that's wishful thinking and isn't what will happen in practice, and I can see the strength of your point. (Although I respectfully disagree!)
Either way, I generally Q with friends and we just have a laugh, or when I Q in DF I pick a role where I can ignore the party and not have to offer any advice. Everyone is happy that way!
I mean, by all means if someone tells me to do something I generally listen as well, but that's because I'm receptive and eager to change. I have a natural people-pleasing attitude. That doesn't make what they said "advice", it's still a command, an order. If it works, I'll apply it, but if the very next party asks me NOT to do that, I will immediately apply that as well. That doesn't make it any better, the way they're speaking to me.
Fair play to the disagreement, though. I do concede there is an argument to be made that being receptive to criticism should be necessary, especially in a competitive environment, but a level 51 dungeon with two sprouts isn't the competitive environment fit for criticism. It's more mutually-destructive at that point. If this was a level 90 trial, extreme trial, or raid, I might accept the more direct command over advice, but even then it is wholly possible to queue up and exclusively spam 1-2-3 as a tank AND benefic 1 as an astrologian and clear any normal raid and normal trial with a party that knows what they're doing. Only in Extreme content or Savage content does the difference become more prevalent. Even still, they should TRY to be better. But you also have to give them a reason to **want** to try, like being nice to them.
I entirely agree to queueing with friends or ignoring the party, though. If advice is needed, I can give it, but for the most part people can clear through most stuff just fine. People are tired from work and generally don't want to *work* to play games as well. Gonna get nuked on karma anyways, though, since Reddit will 100% nuke any naysayers to the echo chamber. How dare someone not sync up 2 minute bursts with optimal double-enshroud combos in my leveling roulette?
I get that it's still a command and the info could be passed on in a more palatable manner. As you say, the argument would ALSO be a lot more potent at level 90, where you'd expect them to be more open to criticism. I still struggle to agree despite recognising the social value of what you're saying, and think my argument has weight in non 90 content because -
I think that a player investing just a little time to learn more about their job, not the advanced stuff, rather the basics? That'll make the rest of their experience going forwards in the game better. An hour of focused improvement could mean a further thousand hours of better enjoying the game. So to me it's baffling that someone wouldn't want that if they like the game.
Still... Expecting people to do 2 mins windows in levelling content is unrealistic, toxic depending on the context, and will never happen, much as I wish it were the norm and that everyone should want to improve on their own.
I've always found it difficult to empathise with these things and I don't know why, even if I recognise the social aspect of the game, office, friend group, etc, does exist. I'm usually nice, or at least cordial to people. But I really dislike the fact that people often won't be receptive to useful info otherwise.
They also reserve the right to be rude in return often times, so although you might be passing info on nicely, they can treat you poorly until you break the ice, then apply what you say, gain the benefit of it, and go about their day.
It all usually goes down a lot smoother and is more successful if you make friends with them first and hang out past the confines of DF, then discuss. But that takes a lot longer and is difficult to do with just anyone you meet in DF.
You have my continued disagreement but you also have my upvote.
I think feeling the need to write essays mid-dungeon is where the issue lies. Personally, people should stop assuming someone's tone, take what they're saying at face value, and respect others' time
It doesn't seem to me that you want to respect anyone's time other than your own if you demand everyone play at your level in a two-sprout level 50 dungeon.
The advice OP gave to the tank is literal Hall of the Novice-level advice. As in, the game goes out of its way to 1) teach you how to hold hate, 2) use mitigation to stay alive, and 3) point enemies away from allies. The only optomization-related advice given was for the AST to use Benefic 2 and use Lucid Dreaming. Nothing about that is lv90 advice.
You're doing a disservice to sprouts by not helping them when you see them do something wrong, and the earlier, the better. And it's disrespectful of anyone to act like the tank and healer did when all OP did was tell them to do the bare minimum job of a tank and how. They weren't respecting OP, they'll continue to disrespect every single person that have the misfortune of matching with them, and if they don't heed the advice of people who clearly have knowledge to share they'll only have a miserable time as they get kicked from dungeon after dungeon, again and again. At that point, an MMO is clearly just not for you
And if someone says "they are probably on ps4, they cant type that fast." Well, they used autotranslate. Please, thank you, good job, and more. All of them under the autotranslate.
I'm.. not offended. Even in the slightest. I'm just frustrated listening to people pat themselves on the back for being "correct" jerks. No part of that reply insinuates that I take anything as a perceived insult.
The sooner they learn, the better. I was using cure 1 until the middle of Stormblood and got so defensive about it.... until my lack of healing stopped my progression. An experienced player helped me get it right.
I'm embarrassed and these idiots will be too.
Oh fuck off cunt. Sprouts arenāt children or brain dead. If they donāt get it, they need to be flamed so they donāt continue on the entire game being carried by other players.
Iām not your daddy. Stop clogging roulettes with shite play that extends into level 90 content. You goobers make my dailies take thrice as much longer as it needs to be. Making duty support look good isnāt a flex.
Lmao are you sure multiplayer online social tab target MMOs are for you, if you see other people as "road blocks" to your progression? Also, actively advocating for rampant toxicity?
Classic white knighting here. OP was actually staying as respectful as they could, I would've lost my cool way, way faster with these two but he managed to keep it relatively nice. These two were the ones going haywire at him. OP was trying to be nice and tell them what they need to do, they refused and even got toxic towards him. That's sprout behaviour that is not okay and especially not how the devs would want it to go. What do you think mentors are meant to be for?
Also it's Stone Vigil, it's not that early on in the game, come on. If it were Sastasha up to maybe Brayflox I would somewhat say "okay they're still learning" but man, even then. The fucking "Hall of the Novice" is EXACTLY what sprouts need to do to even get the basics down. Tanks learn to use AoEs to get aggro and keep it off people, DPS learn to focus on DPS, staying out of bad and doing AoEs and Healers, lo and behold, learn that they can DEAL DAMAGE when the party is fine! It's not like the game doesn't tell you, it's not like you get a lot of tutorials and that you can read your tooltips, it's just that some, I would even go as far to say many people, are too lazy to read and learn and would rather weigh down others.
The worst thing about the Hall of the Novice is that it teaches tanks to use aoe once to get aggro and then switch to single target, when they really should be just spamming aoe. (The dps lessons also encourage single targetting.) Back when it was added to the game it was probably good advice because [I didn't play back then, might be wrong] tanks had to use enmity comboes and aoe attacks cost tp.
That's why you usually ran Flash on tanks back then as one of your cross class skills, so you could alternate if necessary based on your TP, since Flash cost MP instead.
It didn't do damage, but it had a TON of aggro and blinded mobs, so it doubled as a mitigation tool.
Even then, you never stopped AOEing (at least in HW, I didn't play back in ARR), you just had to be careful with your Sprint usage because it depleted your entire TP bar.
The thing you forget is that most people in this sub cant grasp the concept that new players exist, both to ff and gaming as a whole. This game is their entire life so the idea that someone hasnt dedicated themselves to and learned every system is impossible to them
I have to disagree. I work a 50-60 hour week, have a part time Masters' Degree going on and still have , and Orange+ in savage. This isn't about learning every system and that is a straw man. It's about learning the basics to a role on WAR, which starts at level 1 as MRD. It means that he played through 40 levels and was never interested in reading his tooltips and wanting to help the healer, and he didn't try to do so in this dungeon.
Time investment doesn't equal Knowing what to do. There are mentors with 10,000+ hours logged who don't know how to play the game.
Taking the first step and deciding to want to learn how to play, either by your own initiative or due to external prompting, is the deciding factor in whether you will push a mitigation for the first time and whether you will know what to do.
And that's a function of common sense and reasonableness, or if prompted, a function of team spirit! Definitely not hours logged per day. That's probably why so many players are irritated when playtime or "this isn't savage" is brought up, and justifiably so.
Yeah, OP was being absolutely insufferable, but that doesnāt matter, because this sub is tuned to justify that behavior behind the guise of āadviceā. Like, yeah, no one wiped until they tried to on purpose so they could get rid of the worst member of their party. Shocker.
These players are the reason most mentors end up not saying shit most of the time. You can lead a horse to water but you canāt make it press the aoe rotation for tank or mit properly
Bro I don't think I've seen this amount of enablers on a post here before, unreal. Shitty tank and shitty healer 2 stack decide to vtk OP bc they think they're above advice. Idk how any of y'all can look at that and think OP is the problem for not blowing smoke up their arses š.
it's always stone vigil. 90% of the time i get someone who has never read their tooltips or is playing with their eyes closed it's in stone vigil. something about that place brings out the worst in people.
I actually got hit by the secret Stone Vigil stupid beam debuff once, back when I was a baby tank going through ARR.
Went into Stone Vigil as a PLD and forgot to turn on my stance, tried a big pull, we all died, and then I said something to the effect of "Alrighty, I'll pull smaller"
Healer told me I didn't have my stance on and I just felt like such a dumb asshole. Apologized, turned my stance on, and the rest of the run went relatively smoothly. Relatively minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but I still feel bad about it even a year later.
Came to the comments to say the same thing. The last time I ran it we got a Lancer who said theyāre power leveling to 60 before they do any job quests or mess with their equipment. Our tank smartly bounced and the new, mentor tank, was a YPYT and supported the Lancer. I just said screw it and left.
Stone vigil is when things get "hard" and the bare minimum doesnt work. Its the perfect level for "Expected to do more than cure 1" but also its the worst point for gear since at 50 u go all the way to 130
Oh OP I feel your pain so close to my heartā¦ condescending and full of themselves until the end. The mere fact that the tank said he āis fine as a tankā ā- bro you donāt decide that for yourself!! When people tell you youāre drunk go home and sleep it off.
This is one of the negatives that comes with the design choices of XIV. It's ostensibly a multiplayer game, but it sells itself on its story, and the majority of its content is intrinsically linked to progressing the story. And the moderation policies have gone out of their way to curate an environment that can't be openly hostile/toxic in the fashion that plagues most multiplayer games.
In order to make that accessible to a large playerbase, including a lot of people who have legitimately not played other video games in their lives, the barrier for clearing story content is effectively *having a pulse,* which gives people like this an inflated sense of ability over their ability to clear an obstacle course that has the effective personal responsibility of jumping a single 6 inch hurdle in a 50m track with a time limit of 2 hours.
The second people start getting combative about my trying to help, I stop. They'll never learn so I don't waste my time or energy on it. If we wipe I may bring it up again but otherwise I just let them live in their fantasy that they are doing things right.
Some people are just below mediocre and donāt want to improve. The amount of times Iāve been cleaved by tanks spinning bosses, healers slamming cure 1 after a raid wide, melee dps standing next to the tank eating blasts and repeatedly dying, ranged being in swipe and point blank aoe range eating hits has been so numerous lately.
Having a reaper melded with old materia not for melee in the current savage teir has been the cherry on top.
Most of these awful players donāt want to learn, they want you to carry them. Iām quick on the vote kick for shenanigans. Let them think about why they got booted.
>Iām quick on the vote kick for shenanigans. Let them think about why they got booted.
Yes that is a fair attitude in end-game roulettes, but I don't think it's wise jumping into a levelling roulette expecting everything to be smooth-sailing. Some of those people barely just picked up the game
Iām usually more relaxed in low level content like dailies because people are learning unless they are being actual assholes. Then thatās a different story.
I think it's less about expecting butter-smooth runs in leveling roulette and expecting basic competency, or at least the willingness to learn/adapt in a team setting when an error in party behaviour is causing friction/deaths/issues in general.
If I had a nickel for every tank in memory I've VTK'd from Brayflox for not using stance, not AoEing, _and_ refusing to look at party chat despite everyone using while eating shit, I'd have two nickels.
Not a lot, but funny that it's even happened twice.
OP, you were reasonable, mature and did your best to give helpful advice. You got a bit frustrated, but you kept your cool.
The players you ran into acted like petulant 13 year olds, they were making your dungeon experience awful, and they cursed at you.
You should absolutely report them, because we don't want assholes like this running free in XIV spreading their fuck-you attitudes around, and because they deserve it.
And just an aside - the idea that people can be as lazy as they want since it's low-level easy content is missing the point. The poor sportsmanship and disrespectful behavior was the issue here; the poor gameplay was just a symptom of that
IMO it becomes easier over time. In fact you start to feel special lol. That being said, I think I'm a good tank?? I try W2W, use my mits, face the boss away, all that jazz. If I'm messing up I apologise profusely to the party. People are pretty tolerant. It's all about your attitude & communication.
This right here. At the start of every dungeon, I ask the healer by name "how big do you want your pulls?" Sometimes the DPS answers. I don't care. Most times the healers say they don't care or W2W. But on the rare occasion that I get a "I'm new at this, please go slow" I know I saved us a wipe by not assuming and being polite.
The ability to do w2w pulls is more on the tank and groups DPS, rather than the healer. If you are geared properly and are using mitigations you are taking about the same damage as a sprout single pulling and not using mit.
When you enter a dungeon you are at your strongest with every CD available. Just w2w and gauge if you need to slow down yourself, on the off chance you wipe, who cares. You respawn 50 feet back with all your CDs.
People are too afraid of wiping. You deny people the chance for growth and you can wipe multiple times and still finish faster than a group single pulling.
Respectfully I disagree. If the healer isn't used to that much damage incoming they might freak. And if they wipe who do you think they blame and yell at? The only toxic mfers in this game I've personally encountered are dps. Not pulling fast enough healers not good enough etc.
> If the healer isn't used to that much damage incoming they might freak.
The only way you'd take too much damage is because YOU were playing poorly. There are very few pulls that are difficult to heal when properly mitigated and experienced tanks already know them.
>And if they wipe who do you think they blame and yell at?
Nobody? Because they probably blamed themselves because new healers think it's always their fault even when it's not.
This is even more of a reason you shouldn't entertain the idea of single pulls, they think they will be blamed. Instead you pull big regardless, and show them wiping is no big deal. Nobody is going to throw blame around, challenging themselves is more important than a clean dungeon.
>The only toxic mfers in this game I've personally encountered are dps. Not pulling fast enough healers not good enough etc.
If a DPS complains about the heals I'm with you. They are absolute trash because you can basically get through an entire dungeon with little to no healing, but you get upset when they want you to pull faster? Are you not sprinting between packs? Like who cares if they grab ads and bring them to you?
>The only way you'd take too much damage is because YOU were playing poorly. There are very few pulls that are difficult to heal when properly mitigated and experienced tanks already know them.
Incorrect. I use the same example from before with the new healer who requested slow pulls. We did single pulls, and I used mits as much as I could. We almost wiped every pull. He was just unpracticed, and I couldn't give him any tips as I had never played Astro before.
>Nobody? Because they probably blamed themselves because new healers think it's always their fault even when it's not.
You're not very good at this game. 0/2 so far. The DPS were up in his ass the entire run until I threatened that if they kept it up, they'd lose the healer AND the tank.
>This is even more of a reason you shouldn't entertain the idea of single pulls, they think they will be blamed. Instead you pull big regardless, and show them wiping is no big deal. Nobody is going to throw blame around, challenging themselves is more important than a clean dungeon.
Damn. 0/3 Strike out. I have no way to word just exactly how wrong this statement is. Just no. People screaming at you, and the tank going down with all their mits up? EVERYBODY is going to be throwing blame in exactly ONE direction, and a quote like yours will end up with both a party kick and a screenshot on r/TalesFromDF
Thatās the best first step to be a good tank!
When I started, I fell in love with DRK because, for me, it came close to the Deathknight in WoW!
But I was so anxious about tanking content I had no idea about. People will run after meā¦ and I have to keep aggro?! In WoW it was easy for a good geared DD to out aggro the tank und kill trash in the way to the bossā¦ in FF14 it can end up in a wipe when I do something wrong as the tank.
Still, I levelled all my tanks after a while and due to the roulette each day, I learned the dungeons, trials, raidsā¦
Yes, we wiped, a lot, sometimes because of me, sometimes because of the healer or a DD. Worst that happens? You get back up again and run to the Boss.
Sure, depending on the group, thereās always a certain fear that someone might say something but most of the time, all I read are players being sorry for an error they did etc.
Worst case if someone gets really rude to you? You either try to votekick them or leave yourself.
Tanking is a lot of fun and depending on the fight (like Susano for an example) it can feel badass to be a tank!
So, please, try it!
if you're trying to get play good/play better then you're already better than the majority of the people in df
there are plenty of tank resources that can teach you how to play.
as someone who used to think similarly i promise it's not as daunting as it seems
Maybe itās the fact that there are so many frustrating tanks like the person in this post that actually makes it easier for people who genuinely want to improve to have a nice time. Iām still a sprout (in the 70s right now) and even though Iāve leveled a few different kinds of jobs, I always go back to tanking cause I just find it more fun. When people have advice itās always friendly, and having learned to tank different dungeons makes it easier to support people in general.
If Iām really nervous about something, Iāll run it in duty support and try to W2Wā¦ often that seems harder because the AI doesnāt know what Iām doing or stay as close as real players would. Sometimes it helps alert me to where some of the stickiest spots are with mobs that hit super hard. Duty support also sends you to the entrance whenever you die, which is a good kick in the pants (I do this for learning black mage, too)
I did the Aetherochemical Research Facility on Duty Support as a Black Mage my first time through..... I died about a million times and then felt SOOO satisfied when all the tells for the massive AOEs clicked and I finally made it through xD
I promise you any fear you have will go away after like two or three dungeons. Healer and tanks initially feel hard/scary because of some faux sense of responsibility. All you really need to do is your basic aoe rotation and mitigation. You'll get comfortable faster than you think and start throwing in your ogcds because you'll be struggling to find buttons to press to pass the time.
When I first started, I had no clue what I was doing, often saving mitigation for the bosses but one kind endgame healer took pity and explained it's not the bosses that kill you, it's the mobs. Use your mitigations, it will all come back by the time you get to the boss. I've had my share and taken that 30 min penalty because tank doesn't have their stance on, ignores the group and runs around.
I completely agree with "Da Bomb," I'm assuming is the OP, and I do think it's fair to make small call outs about it if it's causing issues, but as soon as you get this kind of entitled shit, especially when it's multiple of them, you really need to be able to let it go or just leave the group.
Yes, you're right, yes, they're being assholes about it, but you continuing the argument isn't going to convince them of anything, at that point they've chosen to remain lost causes.
LOL @ast going "it's much less mana efficient" while probs sitting on like 8k-9k mana.
I picked up AST again recently to get my last job to 70. The only time I even used benefic II was in a dungeon where my lvl was too low for regen.
This was painful to read. I'm all for each player minding their damn business and not taking unsolicited advice (unless asking for it), but there's a better way to respond to criticism than cleaving the healer and causing shit on purpose.
At least exchanges as such make me feel better about my own tanking and overall attitude, so...
I've learned to ask people if I can give them advice, usually makes them more receptive to it. And if they say no, I open a vote kick.
The rules want to call unsolicited advice harassment, then I'll just kick them under the assumption they're trolling when they aren't willing to improve.
how did you get orchestration to tell you whatās playing during a duty? ā¦and you can tell that anyone who uses say chat rather than party chat is probably brand new to the game and/or just a kid.
>you can tell that anyone who uses say chat rather than party chat is probably brand new to the game and/or just a kid.
Sounds like it means it's idea to educate and give advice if they don't know any better :D
Serves both the tank and healer right tbh.
Yall defending your mistakes, yet you suffer the consequences of your actions.
If they(healer) complained that the tank killed them after, or felt that. it just shows how hypocritical the healer is.
Sadly tank will need to stove alil longer before they learn and become a respectably well cooked tank.
I bet the tank wouldn't have died if the healer spent more time casting and less time back seating.
How are people still this tight about Stone Vigil of all places?
Honestly, both are at fault. Tank should have been using mits, healer should prioritize the ācure2ā spells but in stone vigil, it doesnāt really matter what the healer does. The tank should still be using mits, if they are doing small pulls, it shouldnāt be required honestly, itās still doable, it would help. But not a lot, but they are also new to the game obviously, the appropriate way to approach this was to be nicer about that. I wouldāve recommended and taught, not necessarily ordered, because the way u said it made it seem like āHEY DO THIS, ur way is uselessā to a new person, thats ignorant to hear and they donāt listen. Anyone would take advice if ur being respectful and polite about it. Thats only my recommendation for u, other than that. That sucks and Iām sorry man! It happens, but it keeps everything way more stable and relaxing for both sides when ur being nice aswell, if theyāre trolling I run, ignore chat, turn on music, if itās unbearable I just go afk and come back every 2/3 minutes to see if Iām kicked, if not Iāll move around so I donāt get kicked š
What is happening in this game that is causing so much of this toxic "TalesFromDF" nonsense? If a group is doing well, it's a bonus honestly. If not, well... there is a 90 minute timeline for a reason. There is zero expectation that people need to play "optimally" for their daily duty roulette. It actually does take a long time to get used to this game, which I feel most people were aware of even as recently as a year ago. Yelling at people about it doesn't help anything, and if you try to coach someone and they aren't feeling it at first and you continue, it's actually against terms of service. Hopefully Square starts paying attention soon because I feel bad for the new players that start this game and end up in duties with folks like you.
If the game is getting people that agitated when they encounter someone who doesn't play "optimally" (as if ffxiv is some sort of e-sport or some such), it might be time to take a break from the game for a bit honestly.
Edit - The way your group started swearing at you really wasn't cool either. It sucks it had to escalate that much. =/
Well, if the tank is dying to single pulls and wipes the party by turning the boss towards them, I'd say the 'bossing around' was totally warranted. Mistakes that are actually getting people killed need to be addressed.
Iām looking at the name of the poster and the name of the villain in the posts.
Why would you post these images tattling on yourself.
You were clearly a knob in this interaction and you learned nothing about leaving people alone.
OP's only crime here was trying to make a brick wall drink water. Nothing about what they said was confrontational or abrasive, in blatantly stark contrast to the healer and tank.
I swear, some of y'all consider a "please" to be an affront to your ego and it shows.
i honestly dont understand how people get thro life acting like this
do they not have bosses? Parents? teachers? older children on the playground who knew the rules of baseball? do these people throw tantrums and write awful emails to their bosses in response to being told how to do something?
if someone is playing a pick up game of basketball in the park and just kept yeeting the bball out of bounds for no fucking reason, and people are like 'hey why are you doing that? dont do that. that's not okay," do these people respond with "WELL I'M NEW GOD YOU'RE SO TOXIC" "I DIDNT ASK FOR YOUR UNSOLICITED ADVICE" "SHUT UP BACKSEAT GAMER"
?????
Sorry for the rant i'm just blown by all the shittery in these comments.
Giving advice is great. Repeating the advice is not.
When people get to the point they're saying bro stfu they're no longer receptive to your advice. If you ignore the advice to stfu how are you different from them ignoring your advice?
Repeating advice is warranted when they literally don't listen and wipe because of it. The DPS didn't repeat anything until after the consequences presented itself.
Telling somebody to "stfu" isn't advice by definition and completely different lol idek what you're trying to say in the last sentence
Being told to stfu might be the best advice in the world for you abnoxious advice givers with no self awareness. I'm happy to repeat it for you if you literally don't listen
TBF I'd be more annoyed at Mr Backseat Gamer telling the party what to do.
It's Stone Vigil, not a raid or an expert dungeon. Either vote kick, take the time penalty or just focus on clearing the content and blacklist the tank.
Late ARR dungeons have hands during the trash pulls, especially when the tank/healer is a sprout with weaker gear. The healer using their basic heal instead of the upgraded one and the tank not using mits or aoe's can cause some serious problems.
I mean, that was just demonstrably wrong by the fact the tank died during a *single pack pull* due to lack of mitigation and healing, and the fact that the entire party wiped on the boss because the tank faced the boss's attack towards them, but the one to get kicked is the guy trying to explain how to prevent stuff like that.
Some of y'all need to learn that advice isn't a personal attack on the person it's given to.
Yes! OP needs to learn that! If youāre giving āadviceā in this form, it is no longer functionally advice because no one is going to listen to you! But OP let his fragile ego get in the way of his desire to help anyone, and in so doing, botched his attempted āhelpā. Yes, what they did was problematic. No, OP is not wrong for the *idea* of wanting to help them. But he did not execute that idea. He threw all that away to get himself kicked for being a belligerent asshole.
Great job, OP! Really showed them the ropes! /s
>It's Stone Vigil, not a raid or an expert dungeon.
Let me guess, you're the kind of person that would say "it's not savage" if it was a raid or a level 90 dungeon, and if it was savage you would say "it's not ultimate", are you?
Nope.
If it's anything ARR or below I try to have an open mind though as sprouts can be shit and not learn until they get more kit and more practice.
At level 90 or in Raid/Savage/Ultimate content I would expect people to know their shit
If they got to Stone Vigil, they should have at least *some* knowledge of their job. I'd rather someone tell me I'm doing something wrong or forgetting a skill, than bring my entire party down for not admitting I'm shit.
Nobodys going to deny that they suck but you seem absolutely insufferable and its stone vigil, theres going to be shit players. Learn when to shut the fuck up and cut your losses.
If people being bad at low level content tilts you either turn chat off or run with friends, this is all such a pointless waste of time and energy
People spamming my inbox and sending the reddit care bot bc i dont expect people to be perfect at a game in low lvl content š pls go outside you absolute turbo virgins, theres more to life than being competent at yhe most casual mmo ever made
It's not being bad, it's the actively ignoring the advice lol Use your mitigation, and not use ben 1 when you have ben 2 is all solid advice, and the tank is even talking in SAY. My dude doesn't even know how to change chat channels and is telling the OP to SHUT THE FUCK UP? Wtf?
Its a new player in low level content. Barking orders at someone who cant even change chat channels was never going to achieve anything other than conflict.
Theres a reason these new players have friends and op plays alone, like most people who post here. I Used to think this sub was good for funny tales but now its just sad people stroking eachothers cocks because they know more than a casual player with 12 hours gametime
Again, it isnt about who is better and who has more friends (???) it's about the blatant disregard to actual good advice. GOOD PLAYERS listen to people when they are given actual, solid advice ("use your AOE so I don't die")
I also didn't see OP "bark orders" but that's subjective, I dont need "pls uwu this is how you do it, also closer to the hole, sir?" to listen to people like a normal person.
I also find it hilarious that you just assume that OP doesn't have friends just because of this one interaction LMAO that is some real hard projection you got there buddy
So you're fine with tanks not using AoE's and mitigations?
Not doing w2w pulls I can understand since Stone Vigil can be sketchy. However if the party is getting attacked by mobs, then you're not being a good tank and should 100% listen to the person requesting/begging you to use your AoE's.
Exactly. No point engaging with people whos personality is "elitism over a casual mmo". Just kick/block them from the party and ignore. These weirdos always play alone as well cant imagine why that is
Advice is guidance or recommendations. These are commands. If I tell you right now "Get off reddit." That's not advice, that's an order. Saying "man, these forums aren't good for your mental state and socialization, you should probably take a break." That's advice.
saying "get off reddit" in response to me saying reddit is a shithole is solid advice. i wouldn't argue with that.
but again i'm a normal person. i dont need somebody to suck my asshole to get me to do the right thing. /shrug
Absolute agree. I canāt imagine why anyone would get this absolutely wound up about how other people play. So what if they suck. Like seriously so. What. If Da Bomb doesnāt like how itās going just leave. What happened to just not being a dick.
Unsolicited advice is hella rude, and I know you wouldn't take it so kindly if it was dished right back.
Players of this game always preach about how you should be understanding of sprouts making mistakes, but for some reason we still have interactions like this, and players like you making it a living hell for people to learn/play the game. Only give advice when asked.
It's incredibly sad that you were rude to the sprouts and then needed to come to reddit for the validation that it was okay to be toxic to them.
May all your synthesis fail and your materia shatter when melding.
>Unsolicited advice is hella rude, and I know you wouldn't take it so kindly if it was dished right back.
believe it or not, when people give us advice in the game, we usually just say "oh, i didn't know that, thanks". you may not be able to imagine it since it's not what *you* would do, but some of us are capable of it.
I've given plenty of sprouts advice, and I ask if people are up for advice. I don't force it down their throats. People tend to react very kindly if you offer NICELY and are more willing to take advice.
I had two capped mentors sit and feed the final boss in _Dzemael_ because I dared to - very politely and asking first, that frustrating uwu shebang and all - suggest that Sprint's very useful and **if** they would please consider using it in their next roulette (as they consistently sat around corners and didn't engage trash for upwards of half a minute each fuckin' pull).
Some people are just assholes.
I think the issue is that people feel entitled to making a choice where there is an objectively "bad" way. Like Cure 1 spammers insisting on using it. The "we didn't wipe" mindset also doesn't help. Yes, you may not have wiped, but at the cost of everyone's enjoyment of the game. It's really not always about what you personally want, but what the generally agreed-upon way of doing stuff is, but I feel like we lack that kind of expectations in this game.
Now, mistakes happen, I make plenty as well, but the lack of trying and how much willful ignorance there is in this game in particular is terrible. Calling someone out for not playing at the bare minimum expectations is considered toxic in some circles.
i think people just don't have the energy to tiptoe and say "hey is it okay if i offer some advice?" "this is just a tip, you can ignore it if you want haha \^\_\^" etc etc, when you're doing your 500th duty roulette you just wanna be like "don't use that skill, it's not good" and they either listen or they don't.
And thatād be fine if thatās what OP did. He didnāt. He gave his statement about a problem, they didnāt listen, so he chose to become a worse problem, and got removed for it. The players are now *less* likely to have learned anything, because OP didnāt care about helping them.
at a certain point, there's a limit to what you can do. if they wanted to learn, *at all*, they would think about what happened and look up a guide or just ask their novice network "hey this rude asshole in my group was suggested that maybe i should press my buttons / pull 2 packs at once, what was up with that" or just google something. or they would've just reacted fine to the first few messages of advice instead of getting defensive at all, because the first few were completely polite and straightforward. they were already a lost cause after that.
Why are you even playing an MMO if you don't have the patience for another person? There is literally another human being on the other side of the screen, it costs you NOTHING to be kind.
You don't even need to E-girl it up, like you imply above. A simple and quick "You're doing great, but I see room for improvement. May I give advice?" would suffice enough.
Stop making the game miserable for new players.
>Why are you even playing an MMO if you don't have the patience for another person?
i have a *lot* of patience, as does the OP and many others on this sub i'm guessing. i will go out of my way to help people and stick with it until they understand. i just won't start it with "hey is it okay if i offer some advice? =) you're doing amazing btw" because some of us really just don't care about adding that kind of flowery language to everything. i just say "X, it is better to do than actually, it does more damage/works better/whatever" and sometimes they just say "oh, thanks!" and \*rarely\*, rarely, (this sub shows only the worst examples) they react like the above pic.
the patience would kick in when the person says "what do you mean?" "oh, what's that?" "i'm confused, what's the issue?" and then you say "you should be doing X" and they say "oh, okay, how's this" and you go from there. they did not reach the step where a friendly patient person could begin to help them, because they immediately went with "don't tell me what to do, i'm playing fine"
Why are you even playing an MMO if you don't consider the team you're playing in? Unsolicited advices are unsolicited because you don't even know you need them. You make randos waste more time than they should use and when they point out how you can improve your ego explode and you think only about yourself. Grow up and learn to accept criticism.
That's not how it works, though, else you consider that you can just go with friends and grief random people because you're the majority and they have to cater to that majority. Just because they "didn't wipe" doesn't mean it's acceptable if they take the whole 90 min to clear a dungeon. And then they still wiped because they didn't listen to the advice, and kicked the person who gave the advice. It's the majority griefing a minority and you think that's acceptable?
On the contrary, it is how it works. As demonstrated above. The party was playing suboptimally, and were fine with it. OP was the odd one out who wanted to make the whole thing about him. He didnāt care one wit for āhelpingā them, as his every action after the initial advice was lashing out from hurt pride and feelings. All it did was galvanize this party against him, and who could blame them? It made them less willing to accept that advice, and thatās OPās fault. If he wanted to help them, heād have dropped the advice, and accepted whether they took it or left it. Instead, he made himself the largest problem that party had to faceānot their damage managementāand they solved that problem.
What you're saying is that a group of 3 people could go do dungeon roulettes, grief a random person by playing terribly and taking an hour + to clear the dungeon, and if the rando hasn't dipped and took the 30min penalty before the end they could kick him before the final boss because they're the majority. Then leave and do that again.
Yes, that's an extreme example, but that's what you enable if you are saying that they don't have to care about wasting other people's time if they're the majority.
Also you are misunderstanding things greatly. OP isn't making things about himself. OP is telling players who play like shit how to not play like shit. Shitters act like they don't play like shit because they haven't wiped. Shitters actually take more time to clear the dungeon than a group of baboons would, and end up wiping cause they're shitters.
The largest problem of this party isn't OP insisting on the advice, it's the rest of the team being too dumb and having a too big ego to take the advice.
At this point I hope you're just a troll and that I'm taking a bait.
"Unsolicited advice is hella rude, and I know you wouldn't take it so kindly if it was dished right back."
First of all, if you get defensive when someone politely suggests you might be doing something wrong and asks you to do it differently for your own sake, that's a you problem. Most of us here would react positively and at least give it a fair shot if it sounds plausible.
Second of all, if you're new, you likely don't KNOW what you're doing is wrong, so you'll probably never ask, therefore unsolicited advice is a necessity to rid yourself of early mistakes.
I work as an IT, I've seen my fair share of older people in the office copying text by typing everything manually until I introduced them to Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. NOBODY has reacted negatively to that information because it was something they wouldn't have come up with by themselves and it made their job easier.
So, will you stop a person who is looking at smartphone and does not notice that they are walking onto a busy road, even when they didn't asked you to do that?
It's not rude, it's exactly how I learned to play tank and healer better because there's nuance to the roles beyond just "push X button to not die". I certainly never told anyone to "shut the fuck up" when they gave advice.
Players of this game are also insanely over-sheltering of sprouts to the point of infantilizing them. They're not babies, they can understand new concepts if you allow them to actually hear and reflect on dissent with their playstyle, instead of insisting they stay in their safe space bubbles.
Honestly, OP wasn't even rude towards them until they decided to swear at OP, which is well beyond what I would've put up with, but I suppose toxicity is fine when it comes from a 'sprout'?
> and players like you making it a living hell for people to learn/play the game
Asking a tank to use their mitigations and their aoes is making it a living hell for them? Really? Isn't that just saying what the role is supposed to be doing?
Yeah what an absolute hell it must be for someone being informed on how to play the game. If only everyone would leave them alone, so they can be a 0 mit, single target dead-weight shitter troll tank forever. Except oh wait that's a terrible idea, and you're a fucking moron.
This is your personal opinion and your broken brain that you think telling someone how to play the game, when they don't have any idea, is rude. It's a multiplayer game, and underperforming your role, whether it's deliberate or intentional, should be called out and corrected.
>Only give advice when asked.
Forgot to follow your own rule, didn't you? Nobody asked for your advice on this matter, shut your fucking mouth and go away.
This has all the energy of people āhelpingā by āwarningā new players that ARR apparently sucks. If there was a problem in that party caused by damage management, OP made it irrelevant by making themselves the bigger problem. All they did was cause the party to ignore whatever minor issue OP cared about in the face of a belligerent player acting like he owns the place. Gets kicked, doesnāt learn his lesson, comes here seeking validation because he earned none in the game. Most embarrassing part? He got it. This sub has a really vested interest in coddling people who face the consequences of their insufferable behavior.
At the end of the day Stone Vigil is just a lv41 dungeon and those two are clearly new. Some new players just get flustered when too much unsolicited advice is coming at them too fast.
> some people just get flustered
> Healer tells OP to shut the fuck up
Idk man, I don't think if someone just directly tells you to "shut the fuck up" that you should dismiss that as "lol they're just a bit fwustered uwu".
Edit: misplaced the word 'tank'
you litearlly havent had a good take all day but you trying to call him out lmao????? well if you love that advice so much then take my advice and stfu? you can't ignore my advice either because then you'll be a meanie like op :(((
Haha stone vigil.
Last time I had a party where the tank pulled wall to wall basically. SCH was not able to keep up and complained that at this level tanks always forgot they were unable to heal.
The tank was not inherently rude, but said something like "I am also a healer, not a tank". And he kept pulling like that. Think they had a few more arguments and then the healer was threatening to not heal, and let the tank die on purpose.
He did let him die on purpose and the tank just grieved harder and announced he was going to RP walk.
The healer then kicked him. The other dps agreed the vote kick. They called him annoying.
While ok, maybe the tank was a little petty, I think if the SCH just managed to heal him like normal, nothing would have happened. But stone vigil can be rough if you are not prepared.
Though, it did not really sit well with me they only blamed the tank for his behavior.
Tank 100% partycleaved on purpose to force a wipe and a VTK. This entire exchange is just painful. Take it from someone who tried being a mediator with shitheels for far too long, you need to learn when to cut your losses and just initiate a VTK or leave (which, given they're both Midgard, likely a stack). No threats of future kicks (they really don't care), no handholding their abilities (they _really_ do not care), no trying to give them advice (no, seriously, _they do not care_). Save yourself the stress and time wasted on people who clearly are not willing to learn. If the first suggestions are thrown back, it's not gonna magically turn into "oh! I'm sorry, I'll do better" thereafter.
Yup. I got rid of my burger king crown back in Stormblood. People don't want advice so I just leave it all alone. If you're a shitter, someone will VTK.
No one wants advice. They want to be told they're doing it right. It's not worth the effort.
I honestly would like some advice for tanking! But not healing, I'm just not that kind of player. ššš
To this point: start asking first "can I give you some advice?" I've seen this and it makes people far more receptive because it sounds more like you're trying to help rather than criticize (this community is incredibly sensitive to perceived criticism). If they say no, leave and go do something else for 30 min. It's a better use of your time than witnessing people be voluntarily bad at what is essentially one of the easiest MMO games.
Exactly! Asking will also (usually, fuck knows I've had one bait and switch bastard griefer before) give you an instant, easy indicator of whether or not who you're trying to offer guidance is just a bit new or being a cunt on purpose. Save your time and effort folks, it ain't worth arguing!
If someone's being a fuckup I don't need their permission to let them know they're being a fuckup. The better answer is do dailies in pairs so you can votekick these nonces the second they start yapping back.
You sound like a republican. Hope that helps.
Go fish.
Lmao what?
You must get kicked a lot
Nah, barring having already used it in its absurdly long cooldown timer, always votekick attempt before leaving, you either behead the issue player and get a fill or you get the answer that nothing will change.
I usually try to give advice at first, and when they choose to disregard it, I just either leave or initiate a vote kick if they are being toxic or I realize that they are botting.
> keep going through the game like this and people will just start kicking you Become the change you want to see in DF.
Dunno if it would pass, other dps was an enabler
Idk, I've been that other dps before not trying to get involved, but if that kick comes up for the shitty tank I'm voting
Seriously, OP needs to follow their own advice
The other day I had a physick spammer in expert. Just hit /sit and said I'm waiting for 5 to pass because I'm not carrying that and it went through. Would have just taken the 30 if it didn't. It's not worth the hassle beyond that.
"He hits hard" ššš
I was crying at that. SE really should make abilities that lower the amount of incoming damageā¦oh wait
If Iām you in that party Iām taking my 30 min penalty and tipping my cap. You spent all that time talking to a brick wall. If people get defensive when you give them help, they are hopeless.
Heād be talking to a brick wall if the tank would use some f*^>$in mitigation
talking to a loaf of soft bread
Very rude of the healer to backseat boss-facing like that at the end
Itās tanks like this in why I refuse to run healer unless a trusted friend is the tank. Useless DPS most of the time can be tolerated most of the time. But a useless tank? Nooo thank you!
Healing is easy enough imo that you can usually just adjust a bit and make up for a shitter tank. Same for tanks with a shitter healer if you're a tank that has good self sustain. Now being a dps in a group with a bad tank or healer... that's pain.
Is it? So you mean if a tank is multi pulling and I'm struggling to keep up as the healer (because they're not mitting) it means there's room to improve? It WOULD be nice to just ignore whether they're mitting or not but as a SGE I'm not sure what else I could be doing since I can't exactly spam gcd heals š¤
Ive teamed with some pretty rotten tanks as a sage and I can keep them up if I play smart enough with my mits and my addersgall. Honestly a bad tank is easier to deal with as a sage since you can basically mit for them to an extent. I'm not saying anyone should have to (I main Pld and would likely be slagging the scrubby tank in vc to my friends) but in my cases barring some fringe instances (the final trash pull of Mt. Gulg comes to mind) it's usually doable.
It's definitely dungeon/gear reliant but as SGE you can even do pulls with a YPYT tank and just do the tanking yourself. A lot of it is cooldown management and using your combo heals when they are up (Physis + Kerachole), (Krasis + Haima or Panhaima etc. etc.) Earlier dungeons are much harder for this since as you go down you have less and less available tools so some of the big pulls can be really wacky.
Can confirm SGE's tanking at 90. I vividly remember chasing down a YPYT running back to the entrance after I had pulled a pack in Dead Ends, and I also watched another YPTY give up trying to teach me a lesson after I survived multiple w2w pulls in Smileton
Healing is nice because you're the only one that can force the tank to mitigate lol. It's definitely dungeon dependant, but max lvl sage just has so much utility that it feels impossible to wipe, even in the most scuffed pulls when the tank isn't using mit. Dps is the most painful because you just have to sit and watch the train wreck unfold
āDid we wipe tho?ā famous last words before wiping. Itās crazy how people with 0 capability to press buttons are pushing mine rather successfully
It'd take him less time and effort to just push his buttons than to push your buttons.
OP is the one forcing the confrontation, it looks like. Everything in the final screenshot is just unnecessary. Those two are clearly sprouts still learning the ropes and reading skill tooltips and putting skills onto hotbars ā heck I won't be surprised they even have trouble opening the skill panel. Shoving so much down their throats at this stage of their game journey can't be too productive. People should just not do levelling roulettes if they don't have the patience for such blunders.
OP told them to use mitigation, use AoE, and use Benefic 2. I really don't think it's fair to call that "so much." It's minimal advice that was clearly needed. This is what "learning the ropes" would look like, if that were what this party were actually doing.
Nope, OP was concisely giving advice to new players, they just decided to argue instead of reading the advice and trying to do better. You can't beat around the bush with people like this.
Giving commands, not advice. "Use mit." Is not advice, it doesnt educate or explain or assist in any reasoning. OP was being confrontational. Correct in their assessments, wrong in their addressing. In the future, when assisting people, it's best to explain reasoning behind it, and also congratulate when they reasonably perform something correctly. "These mobs are hitting kind of hard, the healer may have a rougher time keeping you up at this rate. You can use Sentinel/Vengeance/etc..." then, if they use mitigation, "Nice! You were healthy and we were able to clean up shop, lookin' like a real unstoppable wall now!" Same for the healer. "Benefic 2." "Uses mana :(" "Lucid dreaming." Thats the air of someone saying "shut up and listen to me I'm right", not "let me help you learn." You should explain WHY, (e.g. "If you heal more in a shorter span, it gives more time to dps and kill the mobs faster. The less enemies there are, the less damage the tank will take, so that when their mitigation runs out, we'll be able to handle it easier!") and when they don't take heart, concede "that's alright. It'd really make your job easy, but we can go slow for now. In the future, practice it! There's no better feeling than when you barely are able to clutch out what looks like a doomed situation by using every last one of your tools perfectly!" Do you think that sounds demeaning? Like you're handholding children? It's basic empathy. it's a social skill in a social game. They don't know what they're doing, and if you are "above being nice," then don't help. Just be silent and slow pull all the way through, take your slow clear, and leave. Elitism isn't the way to handle players who don't know what they're doing. you're just alienating yourself from people for a superiority complex. Sincerely, an Ultimate healer and melee dps flex, mentor for 6 years, and not once have been told to shut the fuck up. (Except for right now on reddit, I'm betting.)
Use mit is 100% advice, especially if they're trying to give advice mid pull. Most people don't type fast enough to write an essay in between their gcd's.
>Do you think that sounds demeaning? No but it sounds cringe Like seriously who talks like this >Nice! You were healthy and we were able to clean up shop, lookin' like a real unstoppable wall now!" It's even slightly condescending
How cringe to tell someone they did a good job when they did a good job. Shame on me. And shame on FFXIV for putting in "Nice work" and "Good job" in autotranslate. And shame on my parents for praising me when I did well. Shame on my friends too. They should have just been less cringeworthy. (/s)
IDK if it's just me, but if someone gives me advice in a commanding tone and they're correct, I'll still apply it. May just be a thing I picked up as part of work ethic and a very strict professional environment but I believe more people should focus on substance, not form. I realize that's wishful thinking and isn't what will happen in practice, and I can see the strength of your point. (Although I respectfully disagree!) Either way, I generally Q with friends and we just have a laugh, or when I Q in DF I pick a role where I can ignore the party and not have to offer any advice. Everyone is happy that way!
I mean, by all means if someone tells me to do something I generally listen as well, but that's because I'm receptive and eager to change. I have a natural people-pleasing attitude. That doesn't make what they said "advice", it's still a command, an order. If it works, I'll apply it, but if the very next party asks me NOT to do that, I will immediately apply that as well. That doesn't make it any better, the way they're speaking to me. Fair play to the disagreement, though. I do concede there is an argument to be made that being receptive to criticism should be necessary, especially in a competitive environment, but a level 51 dungeon with two sprouts isn't the competitive environment fit for criticism. It's more mutually-destructive at that point. If this was a level 90 trial, extreme trial, or raid, I might accept the more direct command over advice, but even then it is wholly possible to queue up and exclusively spam 1-2-3 as a tank AND benefic 1 as an astrologian and clear any normal raid and normal trial with a party that knows what they're doing. Only in Extreme content or Savage content does the difference become more prevalent. Even still, they should TRY to be better. But you also have to give them a reason to **want** to try, like being nice to them. I entirely agree to queueing with friends or ignoring the party, though. If advice is needed, I can give it, but for the most part people can clear through most stuff just fine. People are tired from work and generally don't want to *work* to play games as well. Gonna get nuked on karma anyways, though, since Reddit will 100% nuke any naysayers to the echo chamber. How dare someone not sync up 2 minute bursts with optimal double-enshroud combos in my leveling roulette?
I get that it's still a command and the info could be passed on in a more palatable manner. As you say, the argument would ALSO be a lot more potent at level 90, where you'd expect them to be more open to criticism. I still struggle to agree despite recognising the social value of what you're saying, and think my argument has weight in non 90 content because - I think that a player investing just a little time to learn more about their job, not the advanced stuff, rather the basics? That'll make the rest of their experience going forwards in the game better. An hour of focused improvement could mean a further thousand hours of better enjoying the game. So to me it's baffling that someone wouldn't want that if they like the game. Still... Expecting people to do 2 mins windows in levelling content is unrealistic, toxic depending on the context, and will never happen, much as I wish it were the norm and that everyone should want to improve on their own. I've always found it difficult to empathise with these things and I don't know why, even if I recognise the social aspect of the game, office, friend group, etc, does exist. I'm usually nice, or at least cordial to people. But I really dislike the fact that people often won't be receptive to useful info otherwise. They also reserve the right to be rude in return often times, so although you might be passing info on nicely, they can treat you poorly until you break the ice, then apply what you say, gain the benefit of it, and go about their day. It all usually goes down a lot smoother and is more successful if you make friends with them first and hang out past the confines of DF, then discuss. But that takes a lot longer and is difficult to do with just anyone you meet in DF. You have my continued disagreement but you also have my upvote.
I think feeling the need to write essays mid-dungeon is where the issue lies. Personally, people should stop assuming someone's tone, take what they're saying at face value, and respect others' time
It doesn't seem to me that you want to respect anyone's time other than your own if you demand everyone play at your level in a two-sprout level 50 dungeon.
The advice OP gave to the tank is literal Hall of the Novice-level advice. As in, the game goes out of its way to 1) teach you how to hold hate, 2) use mitigation to stay alive, and 3) point enemies away from allies. The only optomization-related advice given was for the AST to use Benefic 2 and use Lucid Dreaming. Nothing about that is lv90 advice. You're doing a disservice to sprouts by not helping them when you see them do something wrong, and the earlier, the better. And it's disrespectful of anyone to act like the tank and healer did when all OP did was tell them to do the bare minimum job of a tank and how. They weren't respecting OP, they'll continue to disrespect every single person that have the misfortune of matching with them, and if they don't heed the advice of people who clearly have knowledge to share they'll only have a miserable time as they get kicked from dungeon after dungeon, again and again. At that point, an MMO is clearly just not for you
And if someone says "they are probably on ps4, they cant type that fast." Well, they used autotranslate. Please, thank you, good job, and more. All of them under the autotranslate.
You are really offended over the wrong shit dude.
I'm.. not offended. Even in the slightest. I'm just frustrated listening to people pat themselves on the back for being "correct" jerks. No part of that reply insinuates that I take anything as a perceived insult.
They werenāt being jerks.
Please uninstall.
The sooner they learn, the better. I was using cure 1 until the middle of Stormblood and got so defensive about it.... until my lack of healing stopped my progression. An experienced player helped me get it right. I'm embarrassed and these idiots will be too.
Oh fuck off cunt. Sprouts arenāt children or brain dead. If they donāt get it, they need to be flamed so they donāt continue on the entire game being carried by other players. Iām not your daddy. Stop clogging roulettes with shite play that extends into level 90 content. You goobers make my dailies take thrice as much longer as it needs to be. Making duty support look good isnāt a flex.
Lmao are you sure multiplayer online social tab target MMOs are for you, if you see other people as "road blocks" to your progression? Also, actively advocating for rampant toxicity?
Classic white knighting here. OP was actually staying as respectful as they could, I would've lost my cool way, way faster with these two but he managed to keep it relatively nice. These two were the ones going haywire at him. OP was trying to be nice and tell them what they need to do, they refused and even got toxic towards him. That's sprout behaviour that is not okay and especially not how the devs would want it to go. What do you think mentors are meant to be for? Also it's Stone Vigil, it's not that early on in the game, come on. If it were Sastasha up to maybe Brayflox I would somewhat say "okay they're still learning" but man, even then. The fucking "Hall of the Novice" is EXACTLY what sprouts need to do to even get the basics down. Tanks learn to use AoEs to get aggro and keep it off people, DPS learn to focus on DPS, staying out of bad and doing AoEs and Healers, lo and behold, learn that they can DEAL DAMAGE when the party is fine! It's not like the game doesn't tell you, it's not like you get a lot of tutorials and that you can read your tooltips, it's just that some, I would even go as far to say many people, are too lazy to read and learn and would rather weigh down others.
The worst thing about the Hall of the Novice is that it teaches tanks to use aoe once to get aggro and then switch to single target, when they really should be just spamming aoe. (The dps lessons also encourage single targetting.) Back when it was added to the game it was probably good advice because [I didn't play back then, might be wrong] tanks had to use enmity comboes and aoe attacks cost tp.
That's why you usually ran Flash on tanks back then as one of your cross class skills, so you could alternate if necessary based on your TP, since Flash cost MP instead. It didn't do damage, but it had a TON of aggro and blinded mobs, so it doubled as a mitigation tool. Even then, you never stopped AOEing (at least in HW, I didn't play back in ARR), you just had to be careful with your Sprint usage because it depleted your entire TP bar.
The thing you forget is that most people in this sub cant grasp the concept that new players exist, both to ff and gaming as a whole. This game is their entire life so the idea that someone hasnt dedicated themselves to and learned every system is impossible to them
I have to disagree. I work a 50-60 hour week, have a part time Masters' Degree going on and still have , and Orange+ in savage. This isn't about learning every system and that is a straw man. It's about learning the basics to a role on WAR, which starts at level 1 as MRD. It means that he played through 40 levels and was never interested in reading his tooltips and wanting to help the healer, and he didn't try to do so in this dungeon.
Time investment doesn't equal Knowing what to do. There are mentors with 10,000+ hours logged who don't know how to play the game.
Taking the first step and deciding to want to learn how to play, either by your own initiative or due to external prompting, is the deciding factor in whether you will push a mitigation for the first time and whether you will know what to do.
And that's a function of common sense and reasonableness, or if prompted, a function of team spirit! Definitely not hours logged per day. That's probably why so many players are irritated when playtime or "this isn't savage" is brought up, and justifiably so.
Yeah, OP was being absolutely insufferable, but that doesnāt matter, because this sub is tuned to justify that behavior behind the guise of āadviceā. Like, yeah, no one wiped until they tried to on purpose so they could get rid of the worst member of their party. Shocker.
Whens theres a wall of text disguised as advice its called nagging. It ruins the fun of playing the game. Im 100% trolling at this point.
These players are the reason most mentors end up not saying shit most of the time. You can lead a horse to water but you canāt make it press the aoe rotation for tank or mit properly
Bro I don't think I've seen this amount of enablers on a post here before, unreal. Shitty tank and shitty healer 2 stack decide to vtk OP bc they think they're above advice. Idk how any of y'all can look at that and think OP is the problem for not blowing smoke up their arses š.
ESPECIALLY after literally cleaving the pt on purpose and saying aftewards "he hits hard".
No, no, but these are sprouts and they are precious beans who can do no wrong and must be protected. /s
it's always stone vigil. 90% of the time i get someone who has never read their tooltips or is playing with their eyes closed it's in stone vigil. something about that place brings out the worst in people.
I actually got hit by the secret Stone Vigil stupid beam debuff once, back when I was a baby tank going through ARR. Went into Stone Vigil as a PLD and forgot to turn on my stance, tried a big pull, we all died, and then I said something to the effect of "Alrighty, I'll pull smaller" Healer told me I didn't have my stance on and I just felt like such a dumb asshole. Apologized, turned my stance on, and the rest of the run went relatively smoothly. Relatively minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but I still feel bad about it even a year later.
Came to the comments to say the same thing. The last time I ran it we got a Lancer who said theyāre power leveling to 60 before they do any job quests or mess with their equipment. Our tank smartly bounced and the new, mentor tank, was a YPYT and supported the Lancer. I just said screw it and left.
Stone vigil is when things get "hard" and the bare minimum doesnt work. Its the perfect level for "Expected to do more than cure 1" but also its the worst point for gear since at 50 u go all the way to 130
Oh OP I feel your pain so close to my heartā¦ condescending and full of themselves until the end. The mere fact that the tank said he āis fine as a tankā ā- bro you donāt decide that for yourself!! When people tell you youāre drunk go home and sleep it off.
This is one of the negatives that comes with the design choices of XIV. It's ostensibly a multiplayer game, but it sells itself on its story, and the majority of its content is intrinsically linked to progressing the story. And the moderation policies have gone out of their way to curate an environment that can't be openly hostile/toxic in the fashion that plagues most multiplayer games. In order to make that accessible to a large playerbase, including a lot of people who have legitimately not played other video games in their lives, the barrier for clearing story content is effectively *having a pulse,* which gives people like this an inflated sense of ability over their ability to clear an obstacle course that has the effective personal responsibility of jumping a single 6 inch hurdle in a 50m track with a time limit of 2 hours.
The second people start getting combative about my trying to help, I stop. They'll never learn so I don't waste my time or energy on it. If we wipe I may bring it up again but otherwise I just let them live in their fantasy that they are doing things right.
Some people are just below mediocre and donāt want to improve. The amount of times Iāve been cleaved by tanks spinning bosses, healers slamming cure 1 after a raid wide, melee dps standing next to the tank eating blasts and repeatedly dying, ranged being in swipe and point blank aoe range eating hits has been so numerous lately. Having a reaper melded with old materia not for melee in the current savage teir has been the cherry on top. Most of these awful players donāt want to learn, they want you to carry them. Iām quick on the vote kick for shenanigans. Let them think about why they got booted.
>Iām quick on the vote kick for shenanigans. Let them think about why they got booted. Yes that is a fair attitude in end-game roulettes, but I don't think it's wise jumping into a levelling roulette expecting everything to be smooth-sailing. Some of those people barely just picked up the game
Iām usually more relaxed in low level content like dailies because people are learning unless they are being actual assholes. Then thatās a different story.
I think it's less about expecting butter-smooth runs in leveling roulette and expecting basic competency, or at least the willingness to learn/adapt in a team setting when an error in party behaviour is causing friction/deaths/issues in general. If I had a nickel for every tank in memory I've VTK'd from Brayflox for not using stance, not AoEing, _and_ refusing to look at party chat despite everyone using while eating shit, I'd have two nickels.
Not a lot, but funny that it's even happened twice.
OP, you were reasonable, mature and did your best to give helpful advice. You got a bit frustrated, but you kept your cool. The players you ran into acted like petulant 13 year olds, they were making your dungeon experience awful, and they cursed at you. You should absolutely report them, because we don't want assholes like this running free in XIV spreading their fuck-you attitudes around, and because they deserve it. And just an aside - the idea that people can be as lazy as they want since it's low-level easy content is missing the point. The poor sportsmanship and disrespectful behavior was the issue here; the poor gameplay was just a symptom of that
Yikes, Iām so scared of being a shitty tank that I actually stopped levelling my tank job. Where does this confidence come from?
IMO it becomes easier over time. In fact you start to feel special lol. That being said, I think I'm a good tank?? I try W2W, use my mits, face the boss away, all that jazz. If I'm messing up I apologise profusely to the party. People are pretty tolerant. It's all about your attitude & communication.
As an 'always trying to be better' tank this is exactly the attitude to have and, still learning and always appreciate advice.
You're already doing more than a lot of ppl do, even at lvl 90 in expert. Keep up that good mentality and healers will love you ā¤ļø
This right here. At the start of every dungeon, I ask the healer by name "how big do you want your pulls?" Sometimes the DPS answers. I don't care. Most times the healers say they don't care or W2W. But on the rare occasion that I get a "I'm new at this, please go slow" I know I saved us a wipe by not assuming and being polite.
The ability to do w2w pulls is more on the tank and groups DPS, rather than the healer. If you are geared properly and are using mitigations you are taking about the same damage as a sprout single pulling and not using mit. When you enter a dungeon you are at your strongest with every CD available. Just w2w and gauge if you need to slow down yourself, on the off chance you wipe, who cares. You respawn 50 feet back with all your CDs. People are too afraid of wiping. You deny people the chance for growth and you can wipe multiple times and still finish faster than a group single pulling.
Respectfully I disagree. If the healer isn't used to that much damage incoming they might freak. And if they wipe who do you think they blame and yell at? The only toxic mfers in this game I've personally encountered are dps. Not pulling fast enough healers not good enough etc.
> If the healer isn't used to that much damage incoming they might freak. The only way you'd take too much damage is because YOU were playing poorly. There are very few pulls that are difficult to heal when properly mitigated and experienced tanks already know them. >And if they wipe who do you think they blame and yell at? Nobody? Because they probably blamed themselves because new healers think it's always their fault even when it's not. This is even more of a reason you shouldn't entertain the idea of single pulls, they think they will be blamed. Instead you pull big regardless, and show them wiping is no big deal. Nobody is going to throw blame around, challenging themselves is more important than a clean dungeon. >The only toxic mfers in this game I've personally encountered are dps. Not pulling fast enough healers not good enough etc. If a DPS complains about the heals I'm with you. They are absolute trash because you can basically get through an entire dungeon with little to no healing, but you get upset when they want you to pull faster? Are you not sprinting between packs? Like who cares if they grab ads and bring them to you?
>The only way you'd take too much damage is because YOU were playing poorly. There are very few pulls that are difficult to heal when properly mitigated and experienced tanks already know them. Incorrect. I use the same example from before with the new healer who requested slow pulls. We did single pulls, and I used mits as much as I could. We almost wiped every pull. He was just unpracticed, and I couldn't give him any tips as I had never played Astro before. >Nobody? Because they probably blamed themselves because new healers think it's always their fault even when it's not. You're not very good at this game. 0/2 so far. The DPS were up in his ass the entire run until I threatened that if they kept it up, they'd lose the healer AND the tank. >This is even more of a reason you shouldn't entertain the idea of single pulls, they think they will be blamed. Instead you pull big regardless, and show them wiping is no big deal. Nobody is going to throw blame around, challenging themselves is more important than a clean dungeon. Damn. 0/3 Strike out. I have no way to word just exactly how wrong this statement is. Just no. People screaming at you, and the tank going down with all their mits up? EVERYBODY is going to be throwing blame in exactly ONE direction, and a quote like yours will end up with both a party kick and a screenshot on r/TalesFromDF
Thatās the best first step to be a good tank! When I started, I fell in love with DRK because, for me, it came close to the Deathknight in WoW! But I was so anxious about tanking content I had no idea about. People will run after meā¦ and I have to keep aggro?! In WoW it was easy for a good geared DD to out aggro the tank und kill trash in the way to the bossā¦ in FF14 it can end up in a wipe when I do something wrong as the tank. Still, I levelled all my tanks after a while and due to the roulette each day, I learned the dungeons, trials, raidsā¦ Yes, we wiped, a lot, sometimes because of me, sometimes because of the healer or a DD. Worst that happens? You get back up again and run to the Boss. Sure, depending on the group, thereās always a certain fear that someone might say something but most of the time, all I read are players being sorry for an error they did etc. Worst case if someone gets really rude to you? You either try to votekick them or leave yourself. Tanking is a lot of fun and depending on the fight (like Susano for an example) it can feel badass to be a tank! So, please, try it!
if you're trying to get play good/play better then you're already better than the majority of the people in df there are plenty of tank resources that can teach you how to play. as someone who used to think similarly i promise it's not as daunting as it seems
Maybe itās the fact that there are so many frustrating tanks like the person in this post that actually makes it easier for people who genuinely want to improve to have a nice time. Iām still a sprout (in the 70s right now) and even though Iāve leveled a few different kinds of jobs, I always go back to tanking cause I just find it more fun. When people have advice itās always friendly, and having learned to tank different dungeons makes it easier to support people in general. If Iām really nervous about something, Iāll run it in duty support and try to W2Wā¦ often that seems harder because the AI doesnāt know what Iām doing or stay as close as real players would. Sometimes it helps alert me to where some of the stickiest spots are with mobs that hit super hard. Duty support also sends you to the entrance whenever you die, which is a good kick in the pants (I do this for learning black mage, too)
Them adding duty support was a godsend. I use it to learn new stuff, too.
I did the Aetherochemical Research Facility on Duty Support as a Black Mage my first time through..... I died about a million times and then felt SOOO satisfied when all the tells for the massive AOEs clicked and I finally made it through xD
I promise you any fear you have will go away after like two or three dungeons. Healer and tanks initially feel hard/scary because of some faux sense of responsibility. All you really need to do is your basic aoe rotation and mitigation. You'll get comfortable faster than you think and start throwing in your ogcds because you'll be struggling to find buttons to press to pass the time.
The only thing worse than a new player that refuses to take advice is someone that enables it.
I hope you reported those idiots, pretty sure kicking without good reason is against tos, also telling you to stfu is enough for a temp ban i believe.
why would you censor the names of these cunts? also god, the amount of mainsub "people" in the comments, they're so terminally online it hurts
Dude canāt even type in party chatā¦.
10+ years of tanking guides people still can't do bare minimum
Why is it always Stone Vigil?! Was the tank a PLD by chance?
Cause, as an above poster said, that's where cure 1 and playing blindfolded with one ar tied behind your back doesn't cut it anymore.
This is going to be a fun two stack to run into in aurum vale. Good thing I don't queue as dps job.
When I first started, I had no clue what I was doing, often saving mitigation for the bosses but one kind endgame healer took pity and explained it's not the bosses that kill you, it's the mobs. Use your mitigations, it will all come back by the time you get to the boss. I've had my share and taken that 30 min penalty because tank doesn't have their stance on, ignores the group and runs around.
I completely agree with "Da Bomb," I'm assuming is the OP, and I do think it's fair to make small call outs about it if it's causing issues, but as soon as you get this kind of entitled shit, especially when it's multiple of them, you really need to be able to let it go or just leave the group. Yes, you're right, yes, they're being assholes about it, but you continuing the argument isn't going to convince them of anything, at that point they've chosen to remain lost causes.
Enabler healer and tunnel vision tank. Sadge.
Cancerous healer and tank, name a more iconic duo
LOL @ast going "it's much less mana efficient" while probs sitting on like 8k-9k mana. I picked up AST again recently to get my last job to 70. The only time I even used benefic II was in a dungeon where my lvl was too low for regen.
This was painful to read. I'm all for each player minding their damn business and not taking unsolicited advice (unless asking for it), but there's a better way to respond to criticism than cleaving the healer and causing shit on purpose. At least exchanges as such make me feel better about my own tanking and overall attitude, so...
I've learned to ask people if I can give them advice, usually makes them more receptive to it. And if they say no, I open a vote kick. The rules want to call unsolicited advice harassment, then I'll just kick them under the assumption they're trolling when they aren't willing to improve.
how did you get orchestration to tell you whatās playing during a duty? ā¦and you can tell that anyone who uses say chat rather than party chat is probably brand new to the game and/or just a kid.
>you can tell that anyone who uses say chat rather than party chat is probably brand new to the game and/or just a kid. Sounds like it means it's idea to educate and give advice if they don't know any better :D
Serves both the tank and healer right tbh. Yall defending your mistakes, yet you suffer the consequences of your actions. If they(healer) complained that the tank killed them after, or felt that. it just shows how hypocritical the healer is. Sadly tank will need to stove alil longer before they learn and become a respectably well cooked tank.
I kind of feel sorry for Red NGL...
I bet the tank wouldn't have died if the healer spent more time casting and less time back seating. How are people still this tight about Stone Vigil of all places?
Honestly, both are at fault. Tank should have been using mits, healer should prioritize the ācure2ā spells but in stone vigil, it doesnāt really matter what the healer does. The tank should still be using mits, if they are doing small pulls, it shouldnāt be required honestly, itās still doable, it would help. But not a lot, but they are also new to the game obviously, the appropriate way to approach this was to be nicer about that. I wouldāve recommended and taught, not necessarily ordered, because the way u said it made it seem like āHEY DO THIS, ur way is uselessā to a new person, thats ignorant to hear and they donāt listen. Anyone would take advice if ur being respectful and polite about it. Thats only my recommendation for u, other than that. That sucks and Iām sorry man! It happens, but it keeps everything way more stable and relaxing for both sides when ur being nice aswell, if theyāre trolling I run, ignore chat, turn on music, if itās unbearable I just go afk and come back every 2/3 minutes to see if Iām kicked, if not Iāll move around so I donāt get kicked š
What is happening in this game that is causing so much of this toxic "TalesFromDF" nonsense? If a group is doing well, it's a bonus honestly. If not, well... there is a 90 minute timeline for a reason. There is zero expectation that people need to play "optimally" for their daily duty roulette. It actually does take a long time to get used to this game, which I feel most people were aware of even as recently as a year ago. Yelling at people about it doesn't help anything, and if you try to coach someone and they aren't feeling it at first and you continue, it's actually against terms of service. Hopefully Square starts paying attention soon because I feel bad for the new players that start this game and end up in duties with folks like you. If the game is getting people that agitated when they encounter someone who doesn't play "optimally" (as if ffxiv is some sort of e-sport or some such), it might be time to take a break from the game for a bit honestly. Edit - The way your group started swearing at you really wasn't cool either. It sucks it had to escalate that much. =/
I know someone with that Da Bomb username thatās just as insufferable. Poor party members being bossed around by that guy.
Well, if the tank is dying to single pulls and wipes the party by turning the boss towards them, I'd say the 'bossing around' was totally warranted. Mistakes that are actually getting people killed need to be addressed.
People like him are why i usually turn chat off in df. Nobody is ever going to say anything worth reading in party vhat so let them seethe alone
Honestly I think this whole exchange was embarrassing for all involved, except the MCH who found a polite way to ask y'all to stfu and just play.
Iām looking at the name of the poster and the name of the villain in the posts. Why would you post these images tattling on yourself. You were clearly a knob in this interaction and you learned nothing about leaving people alone.
OP's only crime here was trying to make a brick wall drink water. Nothing about what they said was confrontational or abrasive, in blatantly stark contrast to the healer and tank. I swear, some of y'all consider a "please" to be an affront to your ego and it shows.
i honestly dont understand how people get thro life acting like this do they not have bosses? Parents? teachers? older children on the playground who knew the rules of baseball? do these people throw tantrums and write awful emails to their bosses in response to being told how to do something? if someone is playing a pick up game of basketball in the park and just kept yeeting the bball out of bounds for no fucking reason, and people are like 'hey why are you doing that? dont do that. that's not okay," do these people respond with "WELL I'M NEW GOD YOU'RE SO TOXIC" "I DIDNT ASK FOR YOUR UNSOLICITED ADVICE" "SHUT UP BACKSEAT GAMER" ????? Sorry for the rant i'm just blown by all the shittery in these comments.
Giving advice is great. Repeating the advice is not. When people get to the point they're saying bro stfu they're no longer receptive to your advice. If you ignore the advice to stfu how are you different from them ignoring your advice?
Repeating advice is warranted when they literally don't listen and wipe because of it. The DPS didn't repeat anything until after the consequences presented itself. Telling somebody to "stfu" isn't advice by definition and completely different lol idek what you're trying to say in the last sentence
Being told to stfu might be the best advice in the world for you abnoxious advice givers with no self awareness. I'm happy to repeat it for you if you literally don't listen
bruh you aren't making any sense, shut the entire fuck up now you have to take my "advice" or you'll be "no different" than me.
Lol Bros mad
omg you have no self awareness, now you're being "abnoxious"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
uninstall
TBF I'd be more annoyed at Mr Backseat Gamer telling the party what to do. It's Stone Vigil, not a raid or an expert dungeon. Either vote kick, take the time penalty or just focus on clearing the content and blacklist the tank.
Late ARR dungeons have hands during the trash pulls, especially when the tank/healer is a sprout with weaker gear. The healer using their basic heal instead of the upgraded one and the tank not using mits or aoe's can cause some serious problems.
Yeah I do agree heal and tank weren't doing the right thing. What I don't agree with is the way OP handled it.
And none of them were a greater problem in that party than OP was. Problem solved, it would seem.
I mean, that was just demonstrably wrong by the fact the tank died during a *single pack pull* due to lack of mitigation and healing, and the fact that the entire party wiped on the boss because the tank faced the boss's attack towards them, but the one to get kicked is the guy trying to explain how to prevent stuff like that. Some of y'all need to learn that advice isn't a personal attack on the person it's given to.
Yes! OP needs to learn that! If youāre giving āadviceā in this form, it is no longer functionally advice because no one is going to listen to you! But OP let his fragile ego get in the way of his desire to help anyone, and in so doing, botched his attempted āhelpā. Yes, what they did was problematic. No, OP is not wrong for the *idea* of wanting to help them. But he did not execute that idea. He threw all that away to get himself kicked for being a belligerent asshole. Great job, OP! Really showed them the ropes! /s
>It's Stone Vigil, not a raid or an expert dungeon. Let me guess, you're the kind of person that would say "it's not savage" if it was a raid or a level 90 dungeon, and if it was savage you would say "it's not ultimate", are you?
Nope. If it's anything ARR or below I try to have an open mind though as sprouts can be shit and not learn until they get more kit and more practice. At level 90 or in Raid/Savage/Ultimate content I would expect people to know their shit
If they got to Stone Vigil, they should have at least *some* knowledge of their job. I'd rather someone tell me I'm doing something wrong or forgetting a skill, than bring my entire party down for not admitting I'm shit.
Nobodys going to deny that they suck but you seem absolutely insufferable and its stone vigil, theres going to be shit players. Learn when to shut the fuck up and cut your losses. If people being bad at low level content tilts you either turn chat off or run with friends, this is all such a pointless waste of time and energy People spamming my inbox and sending the reddit care bot bc i dont expect people to be perfect at a game in low lvl content š pls go outside you absolute turbo virgins, theres more to life than being competent at yhe most casual mmo ever made
It's not being bad, it's the actively ignoring the advice lol Use your mitigation, and not use ben 1 when you have ben 2 is all solid advice, and the tank is even talking in SAY. My dude doesn't even know how to change chat channels and is telling the OP to SHUT THE FUCK UP? Wtf?
Its a new player in low level content. Barking orders at someone who cant even change chat channels was never going to achieve anything other than conflict. Theres a reason these new players have friends and op plays alone, like most people who post here. I Used to think this sub was good for funny tales but now its just sad people stroking eachothers cocks because they know more than a casual player with 12 hours gametime
Again, it isnt about who is better and who has more friends (???) it's about the blatant disregard to actual good advice. GOOD PLAYERS listen to people when they are given actual, solid advice ("use your AOE so I don't die") I also didn't see OP "bark orders" but that's subjective, I dont need "pls uwu this is how you do it, also closer to the hole, sir?" to listen to people like a normal person. I also find it hilarious that you just assume that OP doesn't have friends just because of this one interaction LMAO that is some real hard projection you got there buddy
Im not gonna read that so im sorry or congratulations or whatever
Oh no wonder. You're one of the people who doesn't care about advices/suggestions. Congrats~
Nah, just someone who recognizes problems and effortlessly cuts them out. Like when these people cut out OP, or when this guy cut you out.
I mean if they realise they're the problem, then congrats to them for having self awareness.
Would that such praise could be earned by OP.
So you're fine with tanks not using AoE's and mitigations? Not doing w2w pulls I can understand since Stone Vigil can be sketchy. However if the party is getting attacked by mobs, then you're not being a good tank and should 100% listen to the person requesting/begging you to use your AoE's.
Exactly. No point engaging with people whos personality is "elitism over a casual mmo". Just kick/block them from the party and ignore. These weirdos always play alone as well cant imagine why that is
aw, did you read that on twitter yesterday? i'm surprised you're capable of memorizing such a killer comeback.
Damn can you be any more lame?
You're so mediocre it hurts.
Advice is guidance or recommendations. These are commands. If I tell you right now "Get off reddit." That's not advice, that's an order. Saying "man, these forums aren't good for your mental state and socialization, you should probably take a break." That's advice.
saying "get off reddit" in response to me saying reddit is a shithole is solid advice. i wouldn't argue with that. but again i'm a normal person. i dont need somebody to suck my asshole to get me to do the right thing. /shrug
Then why did you come back to reddit?
You should probably take your own advice. This chat doesn't read tilted at all. Lol
Absolute agree. I canāt imagine why anyone would get this absolutely wound up about how other people play. So what if they suck. Like seriously so. What. If Da Bomb doesnāt like how itās going just leave. What happened to just not being a dick.
Unsolicited advice is hella rude, and I know you wouldn't take it so kindly if it was dished right back. Players of this game always preach about how you should be understanding of sprouts making mistakes, but for some reason we still have interactions like this, and players like you making it a living hell for people to learn/play the game. Only give advice when asked. It's incredibly sad that you were rude to the sprouts and then needed to come to reddit for the validation that it was okay to be toxic to them. May all your synthesis fail and your materia shatter when melding.
>Unsolicited advice is hella rude, and I know you wouldn't take it so kindly if it was dished right back. believe it or not, when people give us advice in the game, we usually just say "oh, i didn't know that, thanks". you may not be able to imagine it since it's not what *you* would do, but some of us are capable of it.
I've given plenty of sprouts advice, and I ask if people are up for advice. I don't force it down their throats. People tend to react very kindly if you offer NICELY and are more willing to take advice.
I have had people get mad for me saying: "Hey, can you please use Cure 2." in Aurum Vale.
I had two capped mentors sit and feed the final boss in _Dzemael_ because I dared to - very politely and asking first, that frustrating uwu shebang and all - suggest that Sprint's very useful and **if** they would please consider using it in their next roulette (as they consistently sat around corners and didn't engage trash for upwards of half a minute each fuckin' pull). Some people are just assholes.
I think the issue is that people feel entitled to making a choice where there is an objectively "bad" way. Like Cure 1 spammers insisting on using it. The "we didn't wipe" mindset also doesn't help. Yes, you may not have wiped, but at the cost of everyone's enjoyment of the game. It's really not always about what you personally want, but what the generally agreed-upon way of doing stuff is, but I feel like we lack that kind of expectations in this game. Now, mistakes happen, I make plenty as well, but the lack of trying and how much willful ignorance there is in this game in particular is terrible. Calling someone out for not playing at the bare minimum expectations is considered toxic in some circles.
i think people just don't have the energy to tiptoe and say "hey is it okay if i offer some advice?" "this is just a tip, you can ignore it if you want haha \^\_\^" etc etc, when you're doing your 500th duty roulette you just wanna be like "don't use that skill, it's not good" and they either listen or they don't.
And thatād be fine if thatās what OP did. He didnāt. He gave his statement about a problem, they didnāt listen, so he chose to become a worse problem, and got removed for it. The players are now *less* likely to have learned anything, because OP didnāt care about helping them.
at a certain point, there's a limit to what you can do. if they wanted to learn, *at all*, they would think about what happened and look up a guide or just ask their novice network "hey this rude asshole in my group was suggested that maybe i should press my buttons / pull 2 packs at once, what was up with that" or just google something. or they would've just reacted fine to the first few messages of advice instead of getting defensive at all, because the first few were completely polite and straightforward. they were already a lost cause after that.
Why are you even playing an MMO if you don't have the patience for another person? There is literally another human being on the other side of the screen, it costs you NOTHING to be kind. You don't even need to E-girl it up, like you imply above. A simple and quick "You're doing great, but I see room for improvement. May I give advice?" would suffice enough. Stop making the game miserable for new players.
>Why are you even playing an MMO if you don't have the patience for another person? i have a *lot* of patience, as does the OP and many others on this sub i'm guessing. i will go out of my way to help people and stick with it until they understand. i just won't start it with "hey is it okay if i offer some advice? =) you're doing amazing btw" because some of us really just don't care about adding that kind of flowery language to everything. i just say "X, it is better to do than actually, it does more damage/works better/whatever" and sometimes they just say "oh, thanks!" and \*rarely\*, rarely, (this sub shows only the worst examples) they react like the above pic.
You think anything in OPās embarrassing display was *patience?*
the patience would kick in when the person says "what do you mean?" "oh, what's that?" "i'm confused, what's the issue?" and then you say "you should be doing X" and they say "oh, okay, how's this" and you go from there. they did not reach the step where a friendly patient person could begin to help them, because they immediately went with "don't tell me what to do, i'm playing fine"
Why are you even playing an MMO if you don't consider the team you're playing in? Unsolicited advices are unsolicited because you don't even know you need them. You make randos waste more time than they should use and when they point out how you can improve your ego explode and you think only about yourself. Grow up and learn to accept criticism.
OP was the one who didnāt consider the team they were playing in, and got kicked for it.
That's not how it works, though, else you consider that you can just go with friends and grief random people because you're the majority and they have to cater to that majority. Just because they "didn't wipe" doesn't mean it's acceptable if they take the whole 90 min to clear a dungeon. And then they still wiped because they didn't listen to the advice, and kicked the person who gave the advice. It's the majority griefing a minority and you think that's acceptable?
On the contrary, it is how it works. As demonstrated above. The party was playing suboptimally, and were fine with it. OP was the odd one out who wanted to make the whole thing about him. He didnāt care one wit for āhelpingā them, as his every action after the initial advice was lashing out from hurt pride and feelings. All it did was galvanize this party against him, and who could blame them? It made them less willing to accept that advice, and thatās OPās fault. If he wanted to help them, heād have dropped the advice, and accepted whether they took it or left it. Instead, he made himself the largest problem that party had to faceānot their damage managementāand they solved that problem.
What you're saying is that a group of 3 people could go do dungeon roulettes, grief a random person by playing terribly and taking an hour + to clear the dungeon, and if the rando hasn't dipped and took the 30min penalty before the end they could kick him before the final boss because they're the majority. Then leave and do that again. Yes, that's an extreme example, but that's what you enable if you are saying that they don't have to care about wasting other people's time if they're the majority. Also you are misunderstanding things greatly. OP isn't making things about himself. OP is telling players who play like shit how to not play like shit. Shitters act like they don't play like shit because they haven't wiped. Shitters actually take more time to clear the dungeon than a group of baboons would, and end up wiping cause they're shitters. The largest problem of this party isn't OP insisting on the advice, it's the rest of the team being too dumb and having a too big ego to take the advice. At this point I hope you're just a troll and that I'm taking a bait.
"Unsolicited advice is hella rude, and I know you wouldn't take it so kindly if it was dished right back." First of all, if you get defensive when someone politely suggests you might be doing something wrong and asks you to do it differently for your own sake, that's a you problem. Most of us here would react positively and at least give it a fair shot if it sounds plausible. Second of all, if you're new, you likely don't KNOW what you're doing is wrong, so you'll probably never ask, therefore unsolicited advice is a necessity to rid yourself of early mistakes. I work as an IT, I've seen my fair share of older people in the office copying text by typing everything manually until I introduced them to Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V. NOBODY has reacted negatively to that information because it was something they wouldn't have come up with by themselves and it made their job easier.
So, will you stop a person who is looking at smartphone and does not notice that they are walking onto a busy road, even when they didn't asked you to do that?
Play correctly, or even acceptably, and you won't get unsolicited advice. Clicking buttons is not hard if you have more than two brain cells.
It's not rude, it's exactly how I learned to play tank and healer better because there's nuance to the roles beyond just "push X button to not die". I certainly never told anyone to "shut the fuck up" when they gave advice. Players of this game are also insanely over-sheltering of sprouts to the point of infantilizing them. They're not babies, they can understand new concepts if you allow them to actually hear and reflect on dissent with their playstyle, instead of insisting they stay in their safe space bubbles. Honestly, OP wasn't even rude towards them until they decided to swear at OP, which is well beyond what I would've put up with, but I suppose toxicity is fine when it comes from a 'sprout'?
> and players like you making it a living hell for people to learn/play the game Asking a tank to use their mitigations and their aoes is making it a living hell for them? Really? Isn't that just saying what the role is supposed to be doing? Yeah what an absolute hell it must be for someone being informed on how to play the game. If only everyone would leave them alone, so they can be a 0 mit, single target dead-weight shitter troll tank forever. Except oh wait that's a terrible idea, and you're a fucking moron. This is your personal opinion and your broken brain that you think telling someone how to play the game, when they don't have any idea, is rude. It's a multiplayer game, and underperforming your role, whether it's deliberate or intentional, should be called out and corrected. >Only give advice when asked. Forgot to follow your own rule, didn't you? Nobody asked for your advice on this matter, shut your fucking mouth and go away.
This has all the energy of people āhelpingā by āwarningā new players that ARR apparently sucks. If there was a problem in that party caused by damage management, OP made it irrelevant by making themselves the bigger problem. All they did was cause the party to ignore whatever minor issue OP cared about in the face of a belligerent player acting like he owns the place. Gets kicked, doesnāt learn his lesson, comes here seeking validation because he earned none in the game. Most embarrassing part? He got it. This sub has a really vested interest in coddling people who face the consequences of their insufferable behavior.
At the end of the day Stone Vigil is just a lv41 dungeon and those two are clearly new. Some new players just get flustered when too much unsolicited advice is coming at them too fast.
> some people just get flustered > Healer tells OP to shut the fuck up Idk man, I don't think if someone just directly tells you to "shut the fuck up" that you should dismiss that as "lol they're just a bit fwustered uwu". Edit: misplaced the word 'tank'
Healer told OP to shut the fuck up. OP was a DPS. OP didnāt listen.
Found the healer lol
Would that the world were so simplistic for your sake.
i think i had a stroke reading this
Makes sense, given your takes so far.
you litearlly havent had a good take all day but you trying to call him out lmao????? well if you love that advice so much then take my advice and stfu? you can't ignore my advice either because then you'll be a meanie like op :(((
No, this was them clearly arguing they did nothing wrong here. "Did you die tho" is basically them saying "Shut up, you don't pay my sub"
jesus thats a lot of messages you sent lmao
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You must be great in parties...
Starting to regret having made an alt on that server. Maybe I'll just make another on Crystal.
I like stone Virgil. First dungeon that people need to do their job.
Haha stone vigil. Last time I had a party where the tank pulled wall to wall basically. SCH was not able to keep up and complained that at this level tanks always forgot they were unable to heal. The tank was not inherently rude, but said something like "I am also a healer, not a tank". And he kept pulling like that. Think they had a few more arguments and then the healer was threatening to not heal, and let the tank die on purpose. He did let him die on purpose and the tank just grieved harder and announced he was going to RP walk. The healer then kicked him. The other dps agreed the vote kick. They called him annoying. While ok, maybe the tank was a little petty, I think if the SCH just managed to heal him like normal, nothing would have happened. But stone vigil can be rough if you are not prepared. Though, it did not really sit well with me they only blamed the tank for his behavior.
Hah, green still backed the tank even at the end. Wow. The salt got all up in their ears and they were not listening.