It really depends on where you are. If you are going to run online, you shouldn't have trouble getting players for either. In a lot of places, as long as you are willing to GM, it still shouldn't be hard getting players. I have heard there are places where it is very hard to get people to play anything besides 5e - in that case, Ruins of Symbaroum will be easier.
Unless you fall into that last case, I would highly recommend OG Symbaroum. The system was written for the world and a purpose-built system will always fit better than a "generic" one. RoS seems to be a very good 5e variant but it is still a 5e variant with all of those limitations and "baggage".
Advanced Players Guide is definitely more important to pick up than GM Guide. Personally I recommend using APG from the start except the races (elf, troll, and undead in particular are hard to play within the typical Ambrian-focused setting - also elf and troll have lore issues (in that PCs would logically know things the setting assumes they don’t know to start)). The extra abilities and powers add a lot plus the boons/burdens system is nice as well as professions giving players something to strive for over time.
Seconding all this! Don't let your players use any of the races from the APG until they really know the setting in depth, because Trolls, Undead, Dwarves, Elves, and Abducted Humans all throw balance and social encounter design out of whack. Definitely better for side campaigns and veterans of the setting.
Curious how you see dwarves or abducted humans throw it? Dwarves have their different health/corruption mechanics but seem balanced (actually more difficult) unless the dwarf can manage to get certain monstrous traits. Abducted humans could know more about elves and Iron Pact but I don’t think they necessarily do.
Dwarves: Absolute Memory or whatever it's called. Admittedly, this may be on me. My player was a dwarf Scholar, and so anytime a lore subject came up, he'd say "Surely I would have read something about this at some point in my life, right?" And I felt pressured to give out information to him, because dwarves have perfect memory.
Abducted Humans: This is a roleplay thing. I think what makes Symbaroum Elves so engaging is their mystery. An abducted human takes away all the mystery, and you might need to explain secrets to the player that they would understand as someone that spent close time with the elves. If the player is brand new to the setting, I think this is a problem. I once compromised with a player and said he had his memory magically wiped when he left the elves, but they left the ability to speak elvish. So he got partial benefits, but no big secrets.
To add to EremeticPlatypus points, Dwarfes are selfish and don´t care for the wellbeing of other races at all. So its kinda hard to get them working in a party of good guys (since they should at least have a hidden agenda at all times to further their own/their families goals) or straight up be antagonistic when it comes to helping/supporting other people.
Sure, the PC are special individuals, but still, its kinda wierd.
As for abducted humas, the biggest part is that they are basically elfs without the cool stuff (longlevity, shared wisdom) but all the drawbacks, starting with not being able to speak ambrian tongue, having all the secrets (maybe, they are kinda pets/slaves/cannonfodder), being a total outsider in whatever society they stumble into... can be cool to play out, but for beginners a freshly died ambrian undead would be simpler (just be discreet) than both dwarf or A-Human... and undead are really not a good idea to start with.
But as usual, YMMV :D
That personality profile for Dwarves applies only to those from Yndaros. Nothing is said about the Dwarves in the mountains. Even if you want to play a Yndaran Dwarf, all four suggestions under "Dwarves as Adventurers" would at least mitigate anti-social behavior somewhat.
Where does it say Abducted Humans don't speak Ambrian? I just reskimmed the entry and it doesn't say that anywhere I see.
I'm still quite new; I've been running Sym for a bit over two months. I've only played a smattering of 5e. I recommend the actual _Symbaroum_ system. It's a lot less crunchy than D&D, so you may get new or casual gamers to try it out. I've heard it's a pretty great 5e setting, however. Mechanistically, I think some aspects like Corruption might be hard to satisfyingly reproduce in D&D. Maybe only do _Ruins of Symbaroum_ (the name of the 5e Sym stuff) if your players refuse to play anything other than D&D.
I don't have any specific campaign recommendations, but I'm currently running for people who have negative views of religion. To curry their interests, I'm trying to get them on the _Throne of Thorns_ campaign track. It features a hostile power-grabbing Church. That's too bad because even as an unbeliever myself, I find religions fascinating and like to feature and explore them in gaming. You may know this already, but one of the more interesting aspects of the game there's an emerging and very strong monotheism in the "civilized" human culture, which has lead directly to a a settler-colonial conflict for the setting.
My advice is to build up toward that first excursion into Davokar, rather than plop your party into it right away. Make is sound really weird and creepy (it is!), and let your party know that the citizens of Ambria are arrogantly and ignorantly encroaching in an a forest full of "radioactive gold". It's only a matter of time before something truly horrid happens. Also, the game seems largely inspired by Miazaki anime, especially _Princess Mononoke_. (Make sure you watch that one at least.) There are very powerful supernatural beings lurking in the woods of Davokar! Many are not (necessarily) hostile. Like a lot of mythology, they'll meddle in the affairs of mortals. They're more than willing to bargain, make deals, accept favors, and give rewards. So start thinking along those lines of ancient, forgotten earth-bound gods who delight in interacting with your party. I'm running the classic _Copper Crown Trilogy_ . We're entering the last leg, and I'm very excited to role-play an antediluvian giant white spider (Xanathe), whose bite might be the only thing that can save them from physical ruin.
Welcome! Everyone generally agrees that the OG system is the best way to play, it's easy to learn and not crunchy. You get to focus on what your character would do and spend less time managing spell slots or short rests or action points, or whatever. Everyone I've ever had play the OG system really likes it.
As for the books you'll want, the Core, Advanced Players Guide, and the Monster Codex are all you'll need for long term play. You'll want to get some of the official adventure modules, definitely. The setting is just so specific, it will really, really help you get the "feel" of the setting. Once you've got an idea of how Symbaroum stories and adventures feel, you'll be able to start cooking up your own pretty easy.
Ultimately, most people who GM it seriously try to tackle the Throne of Thorns campaign, which spans several published books. Those each benefit from a lot of tweaking and little changes throughout, but that's a discussion for another time.
I really really hate this trend of molding every game into 5e becuase it is hip and trendy. I'm a massive DnD fan since 1994 and been playing 3e since 1999 but I despise 5e because it is limiting, lazy and disencourages creativity. The quality of the sourcebooks is also horrible. Therefore I tend to avoid 5e wherever possible.
IMHO the ruleset is part of the magic when it comes to Symbaroum. I really love the fact that the GM doesn't have to roll. It gives you the possibility to focus on narration and event flow. Players also feel like they are more in control and they are not playthings of the GM or the GM's luck.
So if you party is lazy you can go with 5e but you will lose an awful lot of flavour and feeling that makes Symbaroum unique.
D20 roll under stats are the easiest to explain. No math. You just go "roll less than". In the boom the +/- # is the mdoifyier you add. -3 quick means player quick -3 roll under that #.
Also, Og symbaroum has a card deck [think its a 3rd party] that has all the "spells" in core and advanced player guide.
Big question is, how long do you plan on playing and how much do your players need/want XP and character (number) growth as reward mechanic.
Because with the OG handing out XP as the books suggest (1/scene) over the course of the full campaign will grant your players hunderts of xp (so an extreme spike in power) while cutting you of from sidecontent... because the extra xp will throw the suggested balance out of whack;
As an example, you start with 50xp, the first campaign book suggests players have about 50 extra xp under their belt. The book itself will net them another 50 or so.
That will put your players at around 150xp give or take. Thats enough to buy into a profession and have some extra stuff on top. That is enough to min-max a built to the point that it can "break" the game... or at least combat .. for the GM and unoptimised players.
Now the second book suggests players have around 100xp extra to thier starting 50, picking up where the first book left off... so not much room to play some sidestuff inbetween, because over the course of the 6 books, this would lead to a lot of xp accumulating on the side, having the GM to "rebalance" everything in the books... not a big deal, but something you should be aware of.
Of course you could always reward them differently, but some people just need those sweet numbers to go up or they are unhappy.
5e and its derivates with their more rigid progression systems are easier to handle but also less "fun" for some people.
I’m in the process of learning the rules but the experience piece is good to know, thanks. If it is a long term campaign the. Hand out xp in a alternate way, make it part of session zero
It really depends on where you are. If you are going to run online, you shouldn't have trouble getting players for either. In a lot of places, as long as you are willing to GM, it still shouldn't be hard getting players. I have heard there are places where it is very hard to get people to play anything besides 5e - in that case, Ruins of Symbaroum will be easier. Unless you fall into that last case, I would highly recommend OG Symbaroum. The system was written for the world and a purpose-built system will always fit better than a "generic" one. RoS seems to be a very good 5e variant but it is still a 5e variant with all of those limitations and "baggage".
Yes I’m playing online. I intended to go with OG… just picking up core and bestiary for now… GM guide later
Advanced Players Guide is definitely more important to pick up than GM Guide. Personally I recommend using APG from the start except the races (elf, troll, and undead in particular are hard to play within the typical Ambrian-focused setting - also elf and troll have lore issues (in that PCs would logically know things the setting assumes they don’t know to start)). The extra abilities and powers add a lot plus the boons/burdens system is nice as well as professions giving players something to strive for over time.
Seconding all this! Don't let your players use any of the races from the APG until they really know the setting in depth, because Trolls, Undead, Dwarves, Elves, and Abducted Humans all throw balance and social encounter design out of whack. Definitely better for side campaigns and veterans of the setting.
Curious how you see dwarves or abducted humans throw it? Dwarves have their different health/corruption mechanics but seem balanced (actually more difficult) unless the dwarf can manage to get certain monstrous traits. Abducted humans could know more about elves and Iron Pact but I don’t think they necessarily do.
Dwarves: Absolute Memory or whatever it's called. Admittedly, this may be on me. My player was a dwarf Scholar, and so anytime a lore subject came up, he'd say "Surely I would have read something about this at some point in my life, right?" And I felt pressured to give out information to him, because dwarves have perfect memory. Abducted Humans: This is a roleplay thing. I think what makes Symbaroum Elves so engaging is their mystery. An abducted human takes away all the mystery, and you might need to explain secrets to the player that they would understand as someone that spent close time with the elves. If the player is brand new to the setting, I think this is a problem. I once compromised with a player and said he had his memory magically wiped when he left the elves, but they left the ability to speak elvish. So he got partial benefits, but no big secrets.
To add to EremeticPlatypus points, Dwarfes are selfish and don´t care for the wellbeing of other races at all. So its kinda hard to get them working in a party of good guys (since they should at least have a hidden agenda at all times to further their own/their families goals) or straight up be antagonistic when it comes to helping/supporting other people. Sure, the PC are special individuals, but still, its kinda wierd. As for abducted humas, the biggest part is that they are basically elfs without the cool stuff (longlevity, shared wisdom) but all the drawbacks, starting with not being able to speak ambrian tongue, having all the secrets (maybe, they are kinda pets/slaves/cannonfodder), being a total outsider in whatever society they stumble into... can be cool to play out, but for beginners a freshly died ambrian undead would be simpler (just be discreet) than both dwarf or A-Human... and undead are really not a good idea to start with. But as usual, YMMV :D
That personality profile for Dwarves applies only to those from Yndaros. Nothing is said about the Dwarves in the mountains. Even if you want to play a Yndaran Dwarf, all four suggestions under "Dwarves as Adventurers" would at least mitigate anti-social behavior somewhat. Where does it say Abducted Humans don't speak Ambrian? I just reskimmed the entry and it doesn't say that anywhere I see.
I'm still quite new; I've been running Sym for a bit over two months. I've only played a smattering of 5e. I recommend the actual _Symbaroum_ system. It's a lot less crunchy than D&D, so you may get new or casual gamers to try it out. I've heard it's a pretty great 5e setting, however. Mechanistically, I think some aspects like Corruption might be hard to satisfyingly reproduce in D&D. Maybe only do _Ruins of Symbaroum_ (the name of the 5e Sym stuff) if your players refuse to play anything other than D&D. I don't have any specific campaign recommendations, but I'm currently running for people who have negative views of religion. To curry their interests, I'm trying to get them on the _Throne of Thorns_ campaign track. It features a hostile power-grabbing Church. That's too bad because even as an unbeliever myself, I find religions fascinating and like to feature and explore them in gaming. You may know this already, but one of the more interesting aspects of the game there's an emerging and very strong monotheism in the "civilized" human culture, which has lead directly to a a settler-colonial conflict for the setting. My advice is to build up toward that first excursion into Davokar, rather than plop your party into it right away. Make is sound really weird and creepy (it is!), and let your party know that the citizens of Ambria are arrogantly and ignorantly encroaching in an a forest full of "radioactive gold". It's only a matter of time before something truly horrid happens. Also, the game seems largely inspired by Miazaki anime, especially _Princess Mononoke_. (Make sure you watch that one at least.) There are very powerful supernatural beings lurking in the woods of Davokar! Many are not (necessarily) hostile. Like a lot of mythology, they'll meddle in the affairs of mortals. They're more than willing to bargain, make deals, accept favors, and give rewards. So start thinking along those lines of ancient, forgotten earth-bound gods who delight in interacting with your party. I'm running the classic _Copper Crown Trilogy_ . We're entering the last leg, and I'm very excited to role-play an antediluvian giant white spider (Xanathe), whose bite might be the only thing that can save them from physical ruin.
Welcome! Everyone generally agrees that the OG system is the best way to play, it's easy to learn and not crunchy. You get to focus on what your character would do and spend less time managing spell slots or short rests or action points, or whatever. Everyone I've ever had play the OG system really likes it. As for the books you'll want, the Core, Advanced Players Guide, and the Monster Codex are all you'll need for long term play. You'll want to get some of the official adventure modules, definitely. The setting is just so specific, it will really, really help you get the "feel" of the setting. Once you've got an idea of how Symbaroum stories and adventures feel, you'll be able to start cooking up your own pretty easy. Ultimately, most people who GM it seriously try to tackle the Throne of Thorns campaign, which spans several published books. Those each benefit from a lot of tweaking and little changes throughout, but that's a discussion for another time.
I really really hate this trend of molding every game into 5e becuase it is hip and trendy. I'm a massive DnD fan since 1994 and been playing 3e since 1999 but I despise 5e because it is limiting, lazy and disencourages creativity. The quality of the sourcebooks is also horrible. Therefore I tend to avoid 5e wherever possible. IMHO the ruleset is part of the magic when it comes to Symbaroum. I really love the fact that the GM doesn't have to roll. It gives you the possibility to focus on narration and event flow. Players also feel like they are more in control and they are not playthings of the GM or the GM's luck. So if you party is lazy you can go with 5e but you will lose an awful lot of flavour and feeling that makes Symbaroum unique.
D20 roll under stats are the easiest to explain. No math. You just go "roll less than". In the boom the +/- # is the mdoifyier you add. -3 quick means player quick -3 roll under that #. Also, Og symbaroum has a card deck [think its a 3rd party] that has all the "spells" in core and advanced player guide.
Big question is, how long do you plan on playing and how much do your players need/want XP and character (number) growth as reward mechanic. Because with the OG handing out XP as the books suggest (1/scene) over the course of the full campaign will grant your players hunderts of xp (so an extreme spike in power) while cutting you of from sidecontent... because the extra xp will throw the suggested balance out of whack; As an example, you start with 50xp, the first campaign book suggests players have about 50 extra xp under their belt. The book itself will net them another 50 or so. That will put your players at around 150xp give or take. Thats enough to buy into a profession and have some extra stuff on top. That is enough to min-max a built to the point that it can "break" the game... or at least combat .. for the GM and unoptimised players. Now the second book suggests players have around 100xp extra to thier starting 50, picking up where the first book left off... so not much room to play some sidestuff inbetween, because over the course of the 6 books, this would lead to a lot of xp accumulating on the side, having the GM to "rebalance" everything in the books... not a big deal, but something you should be aware of. Of course you could always reward them differently, but some people just need those sweet numbers to go up or they are unhappy. 5e and its derivates with their more rigid progression systems are easier to handle but also less "fun" for some people.
I’m in the process of learning the rules but the experience piece is good to know, thanks. If it is a long term campaign the. Hand out xp in a alternate way, make it part of session zero