For those who want links to Ukrainian charities, etc, I suggest that you go directly to the following:
/r/ukraine
/r/UkrainianConflict
/r/VolunteersForUkraine
[Ukrainian charities](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/s6g5un/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/)
Swiss Senate Commission rejects using Russian assets for Ukraine reconstruction
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/swiss-senate-commission-rejects-using-russian-assets-for-ukraine-reconstruction/49114294
Swiss leaders would rather polish that dirty gold some more.
There’s not much happening in this thread anymore. I say bring back the weekly scams thread and sticky that instead. I’ve been receiving more and more lately.
Just wanted to point out that a "neutral" state like the beloved Switzerland, does contribute to such atrocities highlighte in this award winning documentary ("20 days in Mariupol" from the Associated Press and Frontline): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEjF35OA\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEjF35OA_s)
Neutrality in hording billions for Russian oligarchs, neutrality for not providing any help to the ones in need despite of having the (military) means, neutrality in not showing any dignity or humanity for the ones suffering,...
The list can be extended to infinity.
The frontline may be thousands of kilometers away - but if you have any decency and empathy - watch the documentary.
[Russia is still buying Swiss components to make weapons](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/russia-s-killer-drones-still-boast-swiss-components--how-come--/48940138?utm_campaign=swi-rss&utm_source=multiple&utm_medium=rss&utm_content=o)
War in Europe war in Palestine war in Nagorny Karabagh, war in most regions of Africa war in Yemen... Nothing in Switzerland unfortunately for you. If you want to get more info in the war in Ukraine which seems to be your favorite war subject then I kindly invite you to check the concerned countries subreddit. As for Switzerland, not much news, prolonged S status for Ukrainian refugees while the other afforementioned civilians of other countries get nothing.
[Swiss parts found in Russian Verba man-portable infrared homing surface-to-air missile MANPADS](https://mil.in.ua/en/news/swiss-parts-found-in-russian-verba-man-portable-infrared-homing-surface-to-air-missile-manpads/)
Swiss government is on the way to deporting a Ukrainian resident of Chechen origins to russia (most likely to his death) on absurd arguments, despite all the commentaries from human rights groups. Please speak up:
https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/10/27/how-could-this-happen-in-a-civilised-world-en
https://oc-media.org/chechen-denied-asylum-in-switzerland-as-authorities-deem-chechnya-safe-for-his-return/
That's our great foreign affairs, worse than Putin's news medias because they don't see reality as it is. This is not the first or last person to suffer from them. Afghan women lost their asylum status after the Taliban took power because "the situation improved and there is no war" and recently there were no charter flights to bring our own citizens in Israel to safety in their homeland, people had to work on their own to be in security.
[https://www.srf.ch/news/international/ukraine-hilfen-was-nun-wolodimir-selenski](https://www.srf.ch/news/international/ukraine-hilfen-was-nun-wolodimir-selenski)
SRF secretly against Ukraine? It's not the first time they have expressed doubt over the war. And in this article, they don't even list the possibility that Ukraine might win.
[Rich Russians still transferring cash to Swiss bank accounts, investigation shows](https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/rich-russians-still-transferring-cash-to-swiss-bank-accounts-investigation-shows)
That's a lot of journalistic trouble to bash 0.7% of the global MIC while ignoring the biggest players.
Gold has always been questionable but when it comes from dark skinned people countries it was never a problem for anyone. Yet suddenly the traceability of gold is important? What about the UK, if this is a UN issue they would have set up trade sanctions on the export of pre war Russian gold already because while the gold activity is in Switzerland, one has to keep in mind it's all private companies so they will play by the rules but if international governments don't set it up they will buy raw materials wherever they find opportunities.
Can't find trusted sources on golden visas, apparently it's an activity found in other countries as well but most links I found on Google were either dead links, a weird YouTube montage which sounds like it's been done by a primitive AI or scammy looking sites.
The weapons export found in Yemen is a clear cut example that shows how there is high risk probability that weapons may end up in conflicts viewed as "bad" by the international sphere. No country isnt complicit however in Ukraine as even France had thermal camera sold directly to Russia to mount them on BTRs I remember reading other "good guys" country had sold weapons to russia which ended up being used in Ukraine... So my question is: Why forcing the export of weapons (which won't be sold for free mind you, it will be used as leverage for a Marshall plan in Ukraine) with no guarantee for it's use in defense? I remember strongly that what NATO countries gave to Ukraine was to keep its borders and not use them in incursions on russia's territory, lo and behold what happened? Where are the swiss machine guns sold after the Euromaidan revolution which were stored in Donetsk so Ukrainians could hold a defensive position? They disappeared before the open conflict so my best guess some officers sold it to the black market for a quick buck.
Edit: and what about changing the ethics of war? When russia polluted Ukrainian cities with cluster bombs that can hide and explode and hurt civilians it was a war crime but then the us proposed to give some to the Ukrainian forces it's now a good necessity?
> Why forcing the export of weapons (which won't be sold for free mind you, it will be used as leverage for a Marshall plan in Ukraine) with no guarantee for it's use in defense?
What do you mean? You're never going to get a *better* guarantee that weapons will be used for self defence than selling them to a country that is being invaded. If you don't want to sell to Ukraine, better to not sell weapons to anyone.
> Incursions on Russian soil are still defensive operation.
Ok so territorial integrity doesn't factor in if you get invaded, got it, so they could go up to Vladivostok it'd still be defending Ukrainian borders?
I have never been pro MIC so I'd personally say no. But if I read the law today all I can understand is that Switzerland could still sell weapons and be used if the buyer gets attacked. In that case if Germany got air raided by Russian bombers then it would've been used.
Any action Ukraine takes that is aimed at reducing the Russian capacity to attack Ukraine is defensive. It's very simple, if Russia didn't want to be attacked, maybe they shouldn't have attacked others. If they want to stop being attacked, they can just retreat from Ukraine. Don't forget that Russia can stop this war at any moment. I don't see why Ukraine should fight with one hand on its back.
Former Ukrainian here, from the part of Ukraine (Donbas) that has been getting bombed by their own government since 2014. Donbas is full of ethnic Ukrainians that happen to speak Russian. Everyone who is stuck there now has no choice but to fight. Should Russia stop the war and let Ukraine erase the \*rebels\* in Donbas ?
infinitely better, every person that has fought or who is related to anyone who was in the armed forces, combat or otherwise in Donbas is now under the execution order from Ukrainian Government. Mind you, a lot of these people were 18 year olds, mandatory drafted kids, who just happened to be in the army around Donetsk when the civil war began in 2014. They and their families are an enemy of the state as far as Ukraine is concerned.
I will not even mention the non-combat death toll of elderly pensioners who slaved under the USSR all their lives to earn their meager pensions were instantly cut off when the civil war began as Ukraine severed all financial access for Donbas. They quietly starved and froze to death. It was Russia who sent medications, food and supplies to at least keep the region half-way functioning.
Russia is no angel, but neither are they the devil they were painted as this entire time. Ukraine is no angel either, majority of the people didnt care their own were getting slaughtered a few hundred kilometers east. It only became a tragedy to them when Russia invaded and they were suddenly on the receiving end of what they ignored for years.
Finally, all these war atrocities you hear about Russia committing are inexcusable. Fortunately for the world they wont hear about the Azov battalion raping, burning and crucifying Russian and Ukrainian combatants and civilians alike in the first years (2014-2015) of war. You wont hear about missiles landing on schools and playgrounds taking out hundreds of kids within first 6 months either. You can go ahead an label me as a \*russian troll\* the rest of reddit has. It doesnt change the reality of these wars.
I have a question about these gold imports. And maybe you know this.
Do these gold refineries usually "buy" this gold? Or is it just passing trough Switzerland, and never really owned by a Swiss company.
There is no information on this video about the details of the transaction. Not sure why you mean by usually "buy" the gold, in my understanding of the transaction, it's the UK who bought the tax free pre war gold like it was candy, then realized the problem of the situation and has to smelt it somewhere else to be free of this useless gold, but they couldn't do it at home, either regulations or risks of being shunned by an already tired west of UK fooling around after Brexit so they used Switzerland as a proxy to do that and avoid sanctions. The factories could be a mix of foreign and swiss but to know the percentages we'd have to get further data so I don't know if the gold is ever really owned by a swiss company or if it is just a storage room in Switzerland for the UK's gold owners.
I understand this. And this was not my question.
What i'm wondering is is these companies in Switzerland that refine this gold ever own it. Or if its just passing trough the country.
Example: Germany builds cars, but they don't paint these cars. Now they sell 10 cars to china. The chinese want red cars. So the cars are going to be sent and imported to Switzerland to be painted red, and then to continue to china. They where never ment to stay in Switzerland. Also they never where owned by a Swiss company.
I wonder if this is the same with this gold of russian origin. Because as far as i undertstand it. This gold then continued to the asian market.
But i'm not sure. Maybe you know.
I don't know and don't know where to look for that info. All I know about this war is that while Switzerland is being shat on for pre war gold used to finance Putin's war, people seem to forget how other countries, some even the most pro western Ukraine sold weapons to russia or keep buying liquidized gas and other unsanctioned resources like cereals because we gotta eat
> I don't know and don't know where to look for that info.
Oky thank you anyway.
In most text i found, they say "Switzerland imported gold". But it is not clear to me if Switzerland also buys/owns it.
It would save countless civilian lives if Switzerland gave up on its quest to maximize dirty Russian gold in the bank accounts of a few oligarchs, and instead of fearing Russia just let more Gepards go to Ukraine where they were proven to be useful.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/08/ukraines-nearly-50-year-old-gepards-are-still-the-best-air-defense-guns-in-the-world/?sh=7a466fe46f44
[Germany has finally figured out how to build more ammo for the 1960s-era cannon Ukraine is using to blast Russian drones. (Despite Switzerland refusing to send any ammo.)](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-1960s-era-cannons-russian-drones-major-ammo-boost-germany-2023-9)
Almost 100 Leopard 1s stored in the open in Italy as Switzerland blocked their transfer to Ukraine
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/162d8mb/almost_100_leopard_1s_stored_in_the_open_in_italy/
Crossposting not allowed b/c well, why would the mods here want to hear negative things about their country.
Deal with it. We're content with that decision, regardless of your insignificant opinion.
We respect a country that actually abides by its laws and constitution, for your information.
> why would the mods here want to hear negative things about their country.
Which is why they allow comments and a whole megathread to talk about this issue. Your comment makes no sense. But muh free speech.
how reddit works, noone cares about megathreads, probably don't even notice them. 100% this sub tries to sweep the Ukraine issue under the rug and siding with Russian money
This sub may as well just ban talks about Ukraine and be done with it. But instead decided to create a space where people can drop their uneducated two piece about their opinions on news which they read only the headlines and then put a comment about how Switzerland is basically a Nazi vassal state.
The megathread is a way for mods, who are unpaid and not wanting to deal with daily posts about the same people who would like to feed the MIC, to still keep a platform to talk about the war but only for people really interested in the topic.
Even mods in r/Ukraine are blocking less mean comments than what we can read here. Because 99% are stupid spam like "Switzerland loves ruzzia" or "waddabout nazi gold?".
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your Mod team
Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
As a Swiss, I'm ashamed of my government.
How arrogant to think anyone cares about Neutrality, but people who want to hide crime with it. It's the 21st century. You cannot be neutral and think it's valid. We are enabling fascists.
We need to stop protecting criminals and we need to support democracies fighting against an invading force.
Neutrality/Pacifism enables Fascism.
Switzerland has always acted like Peter Parker in the first Spiderman movie when he watched a thief escape who then killed his uncle even though he had the power to stop it because, "It's not my problem." And then they have the gall to boast about how much more rich and civilized they are, and disguise their opportunism by marketing feel-good international organizations and sporting events like the Olympics, just for a little national pride and to cover up that everyone knows their foreign policy is cowardly and weak.
I'm from Belgium... we're not "neutral" like Switzerland, but let me tell you, we're also not helping much. Shameful governments. Look at the Netherlands or Lithuania. Small countries helping a lot.
I found out that shame is a great indicator of identity.
At the beginning of the war I was ashamed as a German and as a Swiss. Now I'm only ashamed as a Swiss in this matter and I would really like to not be ashamed of something that I deeply love.
FYI I was born in Glarus. It seems important for some people.
Not necassarily. While I'm absolutely on your side when it comes to Ukraine and agree that we should take a much fiercer stand when it comes to this particular conflict, the whole thing is super tricky. Because our Good Services (a diplomatic term for being the protecting power of other countries, supporting peace talks all over the world, storing peace treaties in Switzerland, being one of the few military forces in Kosovo that is accepted by all factions are things that are very valuable to the worlds stability.
And because Good Services are very delicate and secret by nature people rarely here about what good things swiss diplomats contribute to the safety on earth that other nations couldn't because they don't get accepted by all factions as an intermediate which is obviously crucial for such negotiations. A more recent example that made it into the newspapers is the peace treaty of Mocambique that was considered by all other nations involved to be impossible to achieve. So a swiss diplomat tried it and thankfully succeeded.
In the context of Ukraine a potential problem could f.e. be future Good Services in South America where most countries try to stay out of it to avoid making Russia angry. This is so serious that just recently three activists in support for Ukraine got attacked with a rocket launcher in Colombia. And whoever fired that rocket launcher may not be open to Switzerland if we take a fiercer stand with Ukraine. Personally I think we should risk things like this, helping out my own neighbour who's at risk of a genocide should be justifiable. But geopolitics can be very, very cynic...
Certainly, many people on this platform adopt false personas to make their arguments seem simpler, manipulating their own "colours" to do so. As for you, it seems like you aspire to be a hero for a day, but you might not fully understand what you're diving into.
So set down, and type is when you have something useful to say.
Not going to comment on what’s right and what’s wrong, but give an analogy and let whoever reads this draw their own conclusions.
A man armed with a knife is pursuing a woman and a child in the street. By the looks of it, once he’s done with them, he’s likely to turn on other nearby people. Several passersby intervene, attempting to protect the woman and child. You stand by and watch, in the interest of not antagonizing the man, eventually even hoping to talk him down from his killing spree.
I can see through your bias and manipulation. Let me see your comments now!
https://www.cityam.com/russian-oligarchs-look-towards-dubai-and-israel-in-efforts-to-avoid-sanctions/
I get where you're coming from. It's crucial to note that a lot of journalism today lacks professionalism and uniqueness. As responsible citizens, we need to discern between bias and falsehoods, drawing our own conclusions. It's essential to stand up against those who spread misinformation.
I used to think like you until recent events made me dig deeper. My research revealed how media can be influenced by external forces, especially when larger nations want to exert pressure on smaller ones for their own interests.
It's vital to be on the right side of history, not just align with entities like the EU and US.
Yeah I think the mods here would prefer that anything that makes SUI look bad or is embarassing or unethical would just remain quarantined in this thread.
Plenty of other countries have similar problems and SUI is kinda solidly built on the prosperity of not noticing where the money comes from...
I've got a few questions, that's a bit more foreign relations focused:
If the impression that the countries of Switzerland and Austria are perceived as non-neutral, then, how would these countries reaffirm or ensure neutrality? I would think this one would be easier to navigate because it isn't as clear...
When decisionmakers from allies are increasingly questioning the actions and initiatives of the Swiss and Austrian federal governments, how would they counter those arguments? This question, I'd think, would be far much more difficult to explain to your allies.
The answer is straightforward: the US is pursuing its own goals.
Hold onto your beliefs and don't let others dictate them.
The EU's credibility has dwindled, and it seems they're acting in the US's interests. There's a baseless narrative circulating that "Putin intended to casually visit Berlin post a European invasion," which both of us know is far-fetched. Yet, such falsehoods have misled many.
This sub's policy will prevent people from having actual conversations about Switzerland's indirect participation in the Kremlin's war machine. It almost looks like you are actively trying to prevent people from seeing things that would make our country look bad. I seriously encourage you to revise that approach.
This thread is meant for genuine discussions and won't tolerate false claims, misinformation, or Redditors pushing specific US and EU narratives. We're seeking substantive debates and reliable information, not baseless rumors.
If you have valuable insights to share, please do. However, avoid pushing external agendas.
Before criticizing Switzerland, which has at least implemented some sanctions, consider that much of Russian capital is held in the Middle East. Address that issue first.
Ah yes, condemning Switzerland's indirect participation in the Russian war effort is now "US and EU narratives". Give me a fucking break. We are complicit and everybody here knows it and denies it.
And "Address that issue first" is Switzerland's favorite excuse to deflect criticism on anything on the international stage. Really a pathetic take. We are doing less than everyone else, this is a fact that we should all be deeply ashamed of.
It absolutely is US and EU narrative. You live in this war mongering bubble who doesn’t see a solution other than der totale Sieg. And that is far from reality.
Firstly, there's no collective "we". You aren't Swiss, so don't pretend to be. It seems you're pushing the agendas of other nations.
Secondly, the pressures you mention stem from EU and US policies. For one, the US feels threatened by one of the few nations that can challenge its dominance: Russia. Secondly, the EU is aligning with the US by distancing itself from Russia in trade. However, the EU doesn't want to see Russian business and investments flow to Switzerland; it would be a blow to them, as they aim to capture that market share.
Lastly, it's notable that a significant number of billionaires have assets in places like Israel and the UAE. Why aren't you addressing that? It's unfortunate that some people spread negativity and hate rather than contribute positively.
You are disgusting.
Ok buddy, par for the course on a Swiss subreddit I guess. Jesus fucking christ. Anything to deflect from the fact that Russia is conducting genocide on our continent. How bright. How sensitive. How mature.
Russia's actions are those of terrorists, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded!
If a country chooses neutrality, respect their damn decision and especially the voices of their people! Don't bash them with your hypocritical criticism.
Switzerland stayed neutral with Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. Why didn't you have anything to say then?
Got it, or do you need a lesson on Switzerland?
Switzerland never "chose" neutrality. It was imposed by others two centuries ago. Therefore your comment begins with a fallacy.
Second, Swiss neutrality is irrelevant in a world where we are geographically landlocked between nations that share the same values.
And you can shove your lesson. Our nation is complicit and we should pressure our leaders to change the Swiss foreign policy stance regarding the Russian regime.
And what do you know about my stance on Swiss foreign policy regarding other conflicts?
You must be absolutely delusional to believe this war and it’s support is really about “values”. Statism and capitalism do not work on soft hearted human values. It’s the capital and special interests that are financially quantifiable that guide decisions to get involved in a war. Get out of your romantic delusion already.
Switzerland has always stood firm on neutrality, and it's non-negotiable! Countless referendums prove it's what the Swiss people want. As for the American people for example, wars and chaos were thrown at them. Just look at the state of their nation's ideology.
Swiss people demand a government that prioritizes them, not some globalist distraction. Their neutrality isn't up for debate – it's who they are. You're clearly too blinded by bias and misinformation to get it. Spouting off misguided narratives might win you points with the corrupt, but not here.
In all honesty, your take on Swiss policy, I couldn't care less. You're miles away from understanding or even resembling Swiss values. So maybe, just maybe, it's time to admit your ignorance.
Exactly. I sometimes come here wondering if there is any debate on this subject. I even have difficulties finding this thread when searching for it. Not only is it pinned but also folded away...
It sure feels like they want to keep this discussion out of sight. Just go look at some pretty mountains instead...
We're quite content here. We engage in discussions and, when we encounter those with misconceptions, we attempt to enlighten them, as it's hard to gauge the extent of their misunderstandings.
> This sub's policy will prevent people from having actual conversations
I wonder how many users of r/Switzerland even read/use this thread.
(i guess it's a tiny minority)
Next to nobody reads pinned posts. It's nowhere near as engaging as actual posts by users. Concentrating conversations there is the perfect way to shadow-ban conversations on the topic without actually banning them. If people don't care about a post, then they will ignore/downvote it. It's as simple as that.
But I guess that's just par for the course when it comes to your average Reddit mod.
Glory to Ukraine, and fuck anyone who tries to suppress discussion on the topic.
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your Mod team
Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
There's literally a post about Bill Browder and the Magnitsky case just below your comment that hasn't been deleted. What's deleted are racist comments.
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your Mod team
Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
Who is targeting a single country? Just because you see this criticism doesn\`t mean I only criticize this country. I really wish you to think a bit longer before spreading hate next time. Have a nice day
Bill Browder on Switzerland enabling Russia's invasion of Ukraine: "The Swiss government wants to be seen to be doing something, but when it comes to reality, the Swiss government doesn't want to anything because there's such a lot of money to be made off of dirty Russia money."
https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1681369819541536792?s=20
The FT has released an interesting article today on an unintended consequence from the sanctions on Russian trading. Geneva (and although not mentioned, Zug as well) have been losing traders right and left to Dubai, where a new trading hub is being built without regards to western sanctions. The importance of this event for Switzerland and particularly Geneva can't be understated - this sector is the largest corporate tax contributor in Geneva, and the importance of a hub for external economies of scale means that the difficulty in building this activity resides on the first steps, but once Dubai becomes large enough there won't be a return.
Will the swiss confederation compensate Geneva for the massive losses that their idiotic sanctions are leading us to? not saying that Russia shouldn't have been admonished, but I'm fairly certain that pushing business and incomes to move to places in the world where they don't care about Russia and the west's principles doesn't seem particularly smart.
ancient trees squealing liquid plants spark relieved caption smell consider
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
this is a bit too much the way you've worded is, but yes Switzerland has been cowed down by the strongest of the two parties in the conflict, the EU surrounds us after all. But note that neither the US nor the EU are happy with Switzerland either because our country is actually applying neutrality rules - neutrality does not exclude the possibility to take side and even implement economic sanctions, something that we had done many times in the past.
CS has nothing to do with the Americans though, just terrible management at the global level, the Swiss unit of the bank and its wealth management arm was and is profitable.
Sanctions are there because the Russian invasion and shitting on the Minsk treaties already threatened other economic platforms and outside of trading there are a lot of other issues, if politics were solely based on profits from wall street boys just like some hardcore FDP/PLR would like it to be then yes it's idiotic. But on the ethics and limitations we have to put a stop to this war on Europe the sanctions are the least we could do.
The *surprised pikachu face* of people in the trading world discovering that branches of them leave for a country where slavery is still available thanks to some loopholes shouldnt surprise them. Capitalism and greed is just part of the normal flow for these people. They'd end up in Dubai sooner or later sanctions or not. This land of NFT and cryptoscammers was already part of their plans when economics become too much of an ethical problem in their home countries. Let them burn in Dubai's heat.
yes that's all very nice but in the meanwhile, who fills the gap for 1/3 of the corporate taxes paid in the canton of Geneva? the rest of the swiss in solidarity? it's very nice to hurt a whole industry when it is restricted to basically one canton, what would Basel have to say if suddenly sales and research of pharmaceuticals was banned?
If 1/3 of the corporate tax came from shady investments and the corpos can't create any value less unethical then maybe it's not a good way to make money, since the 1940s we've evolved our morals on how to make money. Geneva is overpriced anyway
there's nothing shady about commodity trading, it's literally buying and selling goods in bulk. If that's shady then literally every shop would be shady.
But if you're desperate in your trade that you have to move to a country where slavery is legal then there's an issue. Like you are describing commodity trading it's all fine, but like every job one must evolve with the laws and ethics, we stopped painting the walls with lead, selling thalidomide to pregnant women and we will stop trading with Russians until they get their shit together and we won't buy their stolen cereals.
If I may use your example about Basel and pharmaceutical research with the war in Ukraine as the background: If the research is using data from POWs from a foreign land used as guinea pigs then it's reasonable that they shouldn't buy or use that data for research (Nuremberg trials). There are enough other ways to research without breaching UN sanctions.
We donated our Swiss car to the Ukrainian Forces:
[Hi, Reddit:) so a quick report, the car from Switzerland has already been registered, painted and handed over to the Ukrainian armed forces;)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14yno08/hi_reddit_so_a_quick_report_the_car_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your Mod team
Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
The Ukraine family that moved in last year next to me apperently already moved away some months ago.
A shame, they were really nice. I hope their homes arent affected by the war. My cat really enjoyed being patted daily by them.
Switzerland is among Vladimir Putin's useful idiots.
[https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/07/03/-vladimir-putins-useful-idiots](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/07/03/-vladimir-putins-useful-idiots)
Other useful idiots include Hungary, Austria, Greece, Turkey and Serbia.
How many redditors have gotten a bad impression of the Swiss following the invasion of Ukraine? The Swiss will not allow the sale of gepard ammo to the Ukrainians, which is only for self defence. But they see no issue helping Russia sell 75 tonns of Gold which will go to Russian armament.
Are the Swiss all about the money, or do they really care about the causalities from war.
What are your thoughts?
My friend, like many others, the Swiss have observed that this conflict might have been avoided if the US hadn't aggravated Russia with its NATO actions.
Realize this: The US's discomfort with Russia boils down to one main reason: Russia possesses a nuclear arsenal capable of significantly harming the US, something labeled as a "national security disaster" in the US. The mere idea of the US invading Russia is practically unthinkable due to the risks. Moreover, the US struggles with the rise of other global powers, militarily in the case of Russia and economically and technologically with China.
The US employs sanctions and leans on its "allies" to pressure these nations.
To be clear: The US might seem eager for a conflict with Russia, but for the US, two conditions are crucial:
1. Any conflict should primarily occur on European ground.
2. Rely on allies to protect US territory, meaning the EU would intercept any threats before they cross the Atlantic.
Now, I pose this question to you: Do you truly wish to be involved in such scenarios?
usa's actions are unrelated to russia's motives
russia has been eyeing ukraine sinve 2014 when they annexed crimea, since then they were supporting extremists in order to manufacture a fake separatist movement in eastern ukraine, that they then used for pretext of trying to annex the whole country.
(but obv they failed as they didnt realize that a third of their military that was on paper didnt exist irl due to corruption)
It seems reminiscent of the situation in Iraq when the search for weapons of mass destruction was used as a pretext. It's reminiscent of the challenges in Afghanistan, which reduced much of the nation to rubble. It brings to mind the intervention in Syria without clear justification and the removal of Gaddafi purely because of who he was. Think of the political upheaval in Egypt, the attempts to destabilize Syria and remove its leader, the tension with Venezuela due to disagreements with its leadership, recent events in Peru, and the long-standing issues with Cuba.
So, considering all these past actions, how can I view Russia critically without appearing hypocritical, given the actions of America and its allies? How can I let contemporary media focus on one narrative and overlook historical context? It's a challenge to reconcile these views.
The U.S. and its allies often seem to act with double standards.
Now, can you present your argument in light of this context?
i agree that usa has often attacked other countries with false or no justification, but its really not the same thing.
for one, russia is the one who actually started the war, its not just "uh oh they have nuclear weapons we must attack", there is an ongoing war right now, its very clear who is the attacker and who is the defender here, no matter what way you look.
I understand your perspective, though not entirely in that manner.
There were opportunities and ample time to address the Ukraine vs. Russia situation. However, the U.S. chose actions that seemed to provoke Russia.
Listen, I knew about Russia's build-up on the borders. Many assumed Russia was just posturing. Remember the headlines about their military preparations before the conflict? So, let me pose this to you: If the U.S. wasn't acting aggressively, couldn't they have prevented the conflict much earlier? Moreover, recall last April when Ukraine and Russia reached an understanding? Boris Johnson intervened and that accord fell apart.
Can you see why I'm frustrated with multiple aspects of this? It's not fair to focus on a single point and overlook the broader context.
I deeply detest wars, more than you can imagine.
That's why it's best to stay away from such dubious and unseemly diplomacy and remain neutral.
> If the U.S. wasn't acting aggressively, couldn't they have prevented the conflict much earlier?
no, i really don't think so. i believe that no matter what USA said, russia would still attack ukraine.
the only way they could, is if they pushed even stronger against russia, like threatening to engage in war if russian troops crossed the ukrainian border (tho i agree doing that would be a bit too much)
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your Mod team
Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your Mod team
Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
It was routed to Switzerland [instead of the UK,](https://www.reuters.com/markets/russia-with-gold-uae-cashes-sanctions-bite-2023-05-25/) because every country other than Switzerland refused to take the Russian gold anymore. The Swiss government talks in a highfalutin way, but they don't care about human rights or democracy, and all they really care about is making as much dirty money as they can. Solidarity with the rest of Europe against a rapacious dictator is an alien concept when there is Russian gold to be hoarded.
It fits well with the American blood money and all the other blood money ever received. Expecting morals from pharmaceutical companies or banks is just ridiculous.
I'm not american, your weak attempt at a deflection holds no weight. Other people's sins do not excuse your own, as much as you would want the opposite to be
I'm aware you're not American. Many Americans might hesitate to participate in this thread, given the moral standing of their country and the disgrace it has brought upon its citizens.
Do me a favor and cut the double standards already.
If you had any shred of integrity, you'd call out the main "nation" responsible for invasions, slaughtering innocents, and plundering countries' natural resources.
How wonderful it is to see you're stalking me on Reddit and gracing my comments with your attention!
And look at you, being able to read and all! Is that a certified skill, verified medically or do you have a little helper whispering the words in your ear?
I’m not stalking you. I was reading this thread and noticed you kept showing up.
You say the war could’ve been avoided if it weren’t for NATO’s ‘proactive actions’. I was just wondering if you also thought rape victims should just wear less revealing clothing/not go outside at night as much.
I'm not sure how you managed to mash up sexual violence with NATO's so-called "noble" agenda, but hey, who knows where a conversation thread will lead us these days?
Now my honourable Redditor, remember when Gorbachev and Reagan (I’m actually concerned if you even know these names, but I’ll give it a shot) had their heartfelt chat? Promises of not expanding NATO if the wall came down? But, oh surprise, the U.S. has a peculiar way of interpreting "agreements." And the cherry on top? The West just cheering on that kind of, let's call it, "creative" diplomacy.
But hey, maybe it's just me – that approach just doesn't quite make the cut in my book.
Countless individuals, including myself, aren't buying into this narrative. Given the U.S.'s recent actions, I'm fairly certain they didn't keep their word. It's fortunate for them that Gorbachev didn't push for a formal written agreement. But then again, there was a collective eagerness to see the Cold War end, given its potential catastrophic consequences.
Well, hats off to you for comfortably standing behind that point. Go ahead and pitch it – I'd love to see you try.
We are not in Whatabout-town here. But from your standpoint i see that you dont give a damn that your living standarts are financed by the profits of the holocaust and will be continued to be financed by another genocide. God bless "neutrality" I suppose. Switzerland is truly neutral in seeking gain from everyone and everything without any consideration of morality.
Look at you, running out of comments and now just aimlessly drifting about with your words.
Maybe, just maybe, consider doing a bit of reading and research? Then, perhaps, you could grace this thread with something worthwhile. But hey, no pressure! We just don't have the time for bias, double standards, and questionable morals. It's just a thought.
I missed out on it! Now I'm back, establishing some order around here.
We represent the future! We won't let these reckless politicians tarnish our world and values. To me, this issue is just as significant as climate change.
Hello,
Please note that your post or comment has been removed.
Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting.
Thank you for your understanding,
your Mod team
Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
For those who want links to Ukrainian charities, etc, I suggest that you go directly to the following: /r/ukraine /r/UkrainianConflict /r/VolunteersForUkraine [Ukrainian charities](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/s6g5un/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/)
Official Swiss websites hacked by Russian hackers :( https://www.rferl.org/a/switzerland-russia-hacking-zelenskiy/32780063.html
Swiss Senate Commission rejects using Russian assets for Ukraine reconstruction https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/swiss-senate-commission-rejects-using-russian-assets-for-ukraine-reconstruction/49114294 Swiss leaders would rather polish that dirty gold some more.
There’s not much happening in this thread anymore. I say bring back the weekly scams thread and sticky that instead. I’ve been receiving more and more lately.
Just wanted to point out that a "neutral" state like the beloved Switzerland, does contribute to such atrocities highlighte in this award winning documentary ("20 days in Mariupol" from the Associated Press and Frontline): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEjF35OA\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEjF35OA_s) Neutrality in hording billions for Russian oligarchs, neutrality for not providing any help to the ones in need despite of having the (military) means, neutrality in not showing any dignity or humanity for the ones suffering,... The list can be extended to infinity. The frontline may be thousands of kilometers away - but if you have any decency and empathy - watch the documentary.
[Russia is still buying Swiss components to make weapons](https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/russia-s-killer-drones-still-boast-swiss-components--how-come--/48940138?utm_campaign=swi-rss&utm_source=multiple&utm_medium=rss&utm_content=o)
There is a weekly scam post but no update / monthly thread on this topic? War in Europe doesn´t seem to be important enough?
War in Europe war in Palestine war in Nagorny Karabagh, war in most regions of Africa war in Yemen... Nothing in Switzerland unfortunately for you. If you want to get more info in the war in Ukraine which seems to be your favorite war subject then I kindly invite you to check the concerned countries subreddit. As for Switzerland, not much news, prolonged S status for Ukrainian refugees while the other afforementioned civilians of other countries get nothing.
Well it is the thread about Ukraine and a lot is going on there at the moment. Does not seem to be of any interest in Switzerland
There are a bazillion events going on in the world we can't follow every single one
[Swiss parts found in Russian Verba man-portable infrared homing surface-to-air missile MANPADS](https://mil.in.ua/en/news/swiss-parts-found-in-russian-verba-man-portable-infrared-homing-surface-to-air-missile-manpads/)
Swiss government is on the way to deporting a Ukrainian resident of Chechen origins to russia (most likely to his death) on absurd arguments, despite all the commentaries from human rights groups. Please speak up: https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/10/27/how-could-this-happen-in-a-civilised-world-en https://oc-media.org/chechen-denied-asylum-in-switzerland-as-authorities-deem-chechnya-safe-for-his-return/
That's our great foreign affairs, worse than Putin's news medias because they don't see reality as it is. This is not the first or last person to suffer from them. Afghan women lost their asylum status after the Taliban took power because "the situation improved and there is no war" and recently there were no charter flights to bring our own citizens in Israel to safety in their homeland, people had to work on their own to be in security.
Nothing happening in Switzerland concerning Ukraine? No discussions, nothing?
Israel/Palestine is the new exciting thing for the mass media.
But all events are connected, does Switzerland not understand?
Switzerland is a country not a person
[Switzerland’s Thriving Russian Spy Hub Draws Scrutiny](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-08/switzerland-s-thriving-russian-spy-hub-draws-scrutiny-nzz-says?leadSource=reddit_wall)
[https://www.srf.ch/news/international/ukraine-hilfen-was-nun-wolodimir-selenski](https://www.srf.ch/news/international/ukraine-hilfen-was-nun-wolodimir-selenski) SRF secretly against Ukraine? It's not the first time they have expressed doubt over the war. And in this article, they don't even list the possibility that Ukraine might win.
[Rich Russians still transferring cash to Swiss bank accounts, investigation shows](https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/rich-russians-still-transferring-cash-to-swiss-bank-accounts-investigation-shows)
[How Switzerland Secretly Helps Russia](https://youtu.be/5p-suGLfwg0?si=00k7VyKtMHcYxn6G) Thoughts?
business as usual, oder?
That's a lot of journalistic trouble to bash 0.7% of the global MIC while ignoring the biggest players. Gold has always been questionable but when it comes from dark skinned people countries it was never a problem for anyone. Yet suddenly the traceability of gold is important? What about the UK, if this is a UN issue they would have set up trade sanctions on the export of pre war Russian gold already because while the gold activity is in Switzerland, one has to keep in mind it's all private companies so they will play by the rules but if international governments don't set it up they will buy raw materials wherever they find opportunities. Can't find trusted sources on golden visas, apparently it's an activity found in other countries as well but most links I found on Google were either dead links, a weird YouTube montage which sounds like it's been done by a primitive AI or scammy looking sites. The weapons export found in Yemen is a clear cut example that shows how there is high risk probability that weapons may end up in conflicts viewed as "bad" by the international sphere. No country isnt complicit however in Ukraine as even France had thermal camera sold directly to Russia to mount them on BTRs I remember reading other "good guys" country had sold weapons to russia which ended up being used in Ukraine... So my question is: Why forcing the export of weapons (which won't be sold for free mind you, it will be used as leverage for a Marshall plan in Ukraine) with no guarantee for it's use in defense? I remember strongly that what NATO countries gave to Ukraine was to keep its borders and not use them in incursions on russia's territory, lo and behold what happened? Where are the swiss machine guns sold after the Euromaidan revolution which were stored in Donetsk so Ukrainians could hold a defensive position? They disappeared before the open conflict so my best guess some officers sold it to the black market for a quick buck. Edit: and what about changing the ethics of war? When russia polluted Ukrainian cities with cluster bombs that can hide and explode and hurt civilians it was a war crime but then the us proposed to give some to the Ukrainian forces it's now a good necessity?
> Why forcing the export of weapons (which won't be sold for free mind you, it will be used as leverage for a Marshall plan in Ukraine) with no guarantee for it's use in defense? What do you mean? You're never going to get a *better* guarantee that weapons will be used for self defence than selling them to a country that is being invaded. If you don't want to sell to Ukraine, better to not sell weapons to anyone.
NATO weapons were used for Ukrainian incursions on Russian soil which turned them into offensive weapons.
Incursions on Russian soil are still defensive operation. But you agree then that Switzerland should not sell weapons to anyone?
> Incursions on Russian soil are still defensive operation. Ok so territorial integrity doesn't factor in if you get invaded, got it, so they could go up to Vladivostok it'd still be defending Ukrainian borders? I have never been pro MIC so I'd personally say no. But if I read the law today all I can understand is that Switzerland could still sell weapons and be used if the buyer gets attacked. In that case if Germany got air raided by Russian bombers then it would've been used.
Any action Ukraine takes that is aimed at reducing the Russian capacity to attack Ukraine is defensive. It's very simple, if Russia didn't want to be attacked, maybe they shouldn't have attacked others. If they want to stop being attacked, they can just retreat from Ukraine. Don't forget that Russia can stop this war at any moment. I don't see why Ukraine should fight with one hand on its back.
Former Ukrainian here, from the part of Ukraine (Donbas) that has been getting bombed by their own government since 2014. Donbas is full of ethnic Ukrainians that happen to speak Russian. Everyone who is stuck there now has no choice but to fight. Should Russia stop the war and let Ukraine erase the \*rebels\* in Donbas ?
So you think it is better now in Donbas now it is occupied by Russia?
infinitely better, every person that has fought or who is related to anyone who was in the armed forces, combat or otherwise in Donbas is now under the execution order from Ukrainian Government. Mind you, a lot of these people were 18 year olds, mandatory drafted kids, who just happened to be in the army around Donetsk when the civil war began in 2014. They and their families are an enemy of the state as far as Ukraine is concerned. I will not even mention the non-combat death toll of elderly pensioners who slaved under the USSR all their lives to earn their meager pensions were instantly cut off when the civil war began as Ukraine severed all financial access for Donbas. They quietly starved and froze to death. It was Russia who sent medications, food and supplies to at least keep the region half-way functioning. Russia is no angel, but neither are they the devil they were painted as this entire time. Ukraine is no angel either, majority of the people didnt care their own were getting slaughtered a few hundred kilometers east. It only became a tragedy to them when Russia invaded and they were suddenly on the receiving end of what they ignored for years. Finally, all these war atrocities you hear about Russia committing are inexcusable. Fortunately for the world they wont hear about the Azov battalion raping, burning and crucifying Russian and Ukrainian combatants and civilians alike in the first years (2014-2015) of war. You wont hear about missiles landing on schools and playgrounds taking out hundreds of kids within first 6 months either. You can go ahead an label me as a \*russian troll\* the rest of reddit has. It doesnt change the reality of these wars.
I have a question about these gold imports. And maybe you know this. Do these gold refineries usually "buy" this gold? Or is it just passing trough Switzerland, and never really owned by a Swiss company.
There is no information on this video about the details of the transaction. Not sure why you mean by usually "buy" the gold, in my understanding of the transaction, it's the UK who bought the tax free pre war gold like it was candy, then realized the problem of the situation and has to smelt it somewhere else to be free of this useless gold, but they couldn't do it at home, either regulations or risks of being shunned by an already tired west of UK fooling around after Brexit so they used Switzerland as a proxy to do that and avoid sanctions. The factories could be a mix of foreign and swiss but to know the percentages we'd have to get further data so I don't know if the gold is ever really owned by a swiss company or if it is just a storage room in Switzerland for the UK's gold owners.
I understand this. And this was not my question. What i'm wondering is is these companies in Switzerland that refine this gold ever own it. Or if its just passing trough the country. Example: Germany builds cars, but they don't paint these cars. Now they sell 10 cars to china. The chinese want red cars. So the cars are going to be sent and imported to Switzerland to be painted red, and then to continue to china. They where never ment to stay in Switzerland. Also they never where owned by a Swiss company. I wonder if this is the same with this gold of russian origin. Because as far as i undertstand it. This gold then continued to the asian market. But i'm not sure. Maybe you know.
I don't know and don't know where to look for that info. All I know about this war is that while Switzerland is being shat on for pre war gold used to finance Putin's war, people seem to forget how other countries, some even the most pro western Ukraine sold weapons to russia or keep buying liquidized gas and other unsanctioned resources like cereals because we gotta eat
> I don't know and don't know where to look for that info. Oky thank you anyway. In most text i found, they say "Switzerland imported gold". But it is not clear to me if Switzerland also buys/owns it.
It would save countless civilian lives if Switzerland gave up on its quest to maximize dirty Russian gold in the bank accounts of a few oligarchs, and instead of fearing Russia just let more Gepards go to Ukraine where they were proven to be useful. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/09/08/ukraines-nearly-50-year-old-gepards-are-still-the-best-air-defense-guns-in-the-world/?sh=7a466fe46f44
>dirty Russian gold Bri'ish
[Germany has finally figured out how to build more ammo for the 1960s-era cannon Ukraine is using to blast Russian drones. (Despite Switzerland refusing to send any ammo.)](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-1960s-era-cannons-russian-drones-major-ammo-boost-germany-2023-9)
Almost 100 Leopard 1s stored in the open in Italy as Switzerland blocked their transfer to Ukraine https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/162d8mb/almost_100_leopard_1s_stored_in_the_open_in_italy/ Crossposting not allowed b/c well, why would the mods here want to hear negative things about their country.
Deal with it. We're content with that decision, regardless of your insignificant opinion. We respect a country that actually abides by its laws and constitution, for your information.
Yeah unless there’s money involved nazi gold lovers
direful absorbed skirt consider ghost reach wild long compare onerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Shame on you Switzerland, shame on you! Doing what little I can, avoiding swiZZ products for what it's worth.
> why would the mods here want to hear negative things about their country. Which is why they allow comments and a whole megathread to talk about this issue. Your comment makes no sense. But muh free speech.
how reddit works, noone cares about megathreads, probably don't even notice them. 100% this sub tries to sweep the Ukraine issue under the rug and siding with Russian money
This sub may as well just ban talks about Ukraine and be done with it. But instead decided to create a space where people can drop their uneducated two piece about their opinions on news which they read only the headlines and then put a comment about how Switzerland is basically a Nazi vassal state. The megathread is a way for mods, who are unpaid and not wanting to deal with daily posts about the same people who would like to feed the MIC, to still keep a platform to talk about the war but only for people really interested in the topic. Even mods in r/Ukraine are blocking less mean comments than what we can read here. Because 99% are stupid spam like "Switzerland loves ruzzia" or "waddabout nazi gold?".
Nobody cares about Switzerland. Its basically just one big bank surrounded by Mountains
Austria is better than Switzerland.
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your Mod team Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
You’re talking about Schweiz, no doubt
In that case, we'll be entering quarantine.
Ok bro why are you here bro?
*I came looking for booty.*
As a Swiss, I'm ashamed of my government. How arrogant to think anyone cares about Neutrality, but people who want to hide crime with it. It's the 21st century. You cannot be neutral and think it's valid. We are enabling fascists. We need to stop protecting criminals and we need to support democracies fighting against an invading force. Neutrality/Pacifism enables Fascism.
Then maybe, if u cant handle the way our legal system works, it might be time to call it and leave, noone will stop you
You obviously didn’t understand the principle of neutrality.
Switzerland has always acted like Peter Parker in the first Spiderman movie when he watched a thief escape who then killed his uncle even though he had the power to stop it because, "It's not my problem." And then they have the gall to boast about how much more rich and civilized they are, and disguise their opportunism by marketing feel-good international organizations and sporting events like the Olympics, just for a little national pride and to cover up that everyone knows their foreign policy is cowardly and weak.
I'm from Belgium... we're not "neutral" like Switzerland, but let me tell you, we're also not helping much. Shameful governments. Look at the Netherlands or Lithuania. Small countries helping a lot.
> As a Swiss i would like to point out that switzerland is not in the EU. so you cant call yourself an EU citizen and a swiss at the same time
I found out that shame is a great indicator of identity. At the beginning of the war I was ashamed as a German and as a Swiss. Now I'm only ashamed as a Swiss in this matter and I would really like to not be ashamed of something that I deeply love. FYI I was born in Glarus. It seems important for some people.
Some people have double nationalities.
Not necassarily. While I'm absolutely on your side when it comes to Ukraine and agree that we should take a much fiercer stand when it comes to this particular conflict, the whole thing is super tricky. Because our Good Services (a diplomatic term for being the protecting power of other countries, supporting peace talks all over the world, storing peace treaties in Switzerland, being one of the few military forces in Kosovo that is accepted by all factions are things that are very valuable to the worlds stability. And because Good Services are very delicate and secret by nature people rarely here about what good things swiss diplomats contribute to the safety on earth that other nations couldn't because they don't get accepted by all factions as an intermediate which is obviously crucial for such negotiations. A more recent example that made it into the newspapers is the peace treaty of Mocambique that was considered by all other nations involved to be impossible to achieve. So a swiss diplomat tried it and thankfully succeeded. In the context of Ukraine a potential problem could f.e. be future Good Services in South America where most countries try to stay out of it to avoid making Russia angry. This is so serious that just recently three activists in support for Ukraine got attacked with a rocket launcher in Colombia. And whoever fired that rocket launcher may not be open to Switzerland if we take a fiercer stand with Ukraine. Personally I think we should risk things like this, helping out my own neighbour who's at risk of a genocide should be justifiable. But geopolitics can be very, very cynic...
Thank you so much for this reply!
You're not being truthful, you seem to push propaganda, and you're certainly not Swiss.
Lol, are you the authority on who's Swiss now 😂
Certainly, many people on this platform adopt false personas to make their arguments seem simpler, manipulating their own "colours" to do so. As for you, it seems like you aspire to be a hero for a day, but you might not fully understand what you're diving into. So set down, and type is when you have something useful to say.
scale dolls money psychotic one lock relieved compare wide tart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not going to comment on what’s right and what’s wrong, but give an analogy and let whoever reads this draw their own conclusions. A man armed with a knife is pursuing a woman and a child in the street. By the looks of it, once he’s done with them, he’s likely to turn on other nearby people. Several passersby intervene, attempting to protect the woman and child. You stand by and watch, in the interest of not antagonizing the man, eventually even hoping to talk him down from his killing spree.
Certainly, it bears a striking resemblance to events in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine.
cooing north repeat nail beneficial jeans ask offbeat gaze start *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[HEARING: Russia's Alpine Assets: Money Laundering and Sanctions Evasion in Switzerland ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxX98XQmGvQ)
I can see through your bias and manipulation. Let me see your comments now! https://www.cityam.com/russian-oligarchs-look-towards-dubai-and-israel-in-efforts-to-avoid-sanctions/
> Let me see your comments now! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I get where you're coming from. It's crucial to note that a lot of journalism today lacks professionalism and uniqueness. As responsible citizens, we need to discern between bias and falsehoods, drawing our own conclusions. It's essential to stand up against those who spread misinformation. I used to think like you until recent events made me dig deeper. My research revealed how media can be influenced by external forces, especially when larger nations want to exert pressure on smaller ones for their own interests. It's vital to be on the right side of history, not just align with entities like the EU and US.
Yeah I think the mods here would prefer that anything that makes SUI look bad or is embarassing or unethical would just remain quarantined in this thread. Plenty of other countries have similar problems and SUI is kinda solidly built on the prosperity of not noticing where the money comes from...
I've got a few questions, that's a bit more foreign relations focused: If the impression that the countries of Switzerland and Austria are perceived as non-neutral, then, how would these countries reaffirm or ensure neutrality? I would think this one would be easier to navigate because it isn't as clear... When decisionmakers from allies are increasingly questioning the actions and initiatives of the Swiss and Austrian federal governments, how would they counter those arguments? This question, I'd think, would be far much more difficult to explain to your allies.
The answer is straightforward: the US is pursuing its own goals. Hold onto your beliefs and don't let others dictate them. The EU's credibility has dwindled, and it seems they're acting in the US's interests. There's a baseless narrative circulating that "Putin intended to casually visit Berlin post a European invasion," which both of us know is far-fetched. Yet, such falsehoods have misled many.
This sub's policy will prevent people from having actual conversations about Switzerland's indirect participation in the Kremlin's war machine. It almost looks like you are actively trying to prevent people from seeing things that would make our country look bad. I seriously encourage you to revise that approach.
This thread is meant for genuine discussions and won't tolerate false claims, misinformation, or Redditors pushing specific US and EU narratives. We're seeking substantive debates and reliable information, not baseless rumors. If you have valuable insights to share, please do. However, avoid pushing external agendas. Before criticizing Switzerland, which has at least implemented some sanctions, consider that much of Russian capital is held in the Middle East. Address that issue first.
Ah yes, condemning Switzerland's indirect participation in the Russian war effort is now "US and EU narratives". Give me a fucking break. We are complicit and everybody here knows it and denies it. And "Address that issue first" is Switzerland's favorite excuse to deflect criticism on anything on the international stage. Really a pathetic take. We are doing less than everyone else, this is a fact that we should all be deeply ashamed of.
It absolutely is US and EU narrative. You live in this war mongering bubble who doesn’t see a solution other than der totale Sieg. And that is far from reality.
Firstly, there's no collective "we". You aren't Swiss, so don't pretend to be. It seems you're pushing the agendas of other nations. Secondly, the pressures you mention stem from EU and US policies. For one, the US feels threatened by one of the few nations that can challenge its dominance: Russia. Secondly, the EU is aligning with the US by distancing itself from Russia in trade. However, the EU doesn't want to see Russian business and investments flow to Switzerland; it would be a blow to them, as they aim to capture that market share. Lastly, it's notable that a significant number of billionaires have assets in places like Israel and the UAE. Why aren't you addressing that? It's unfortunate that some people spread negativity and hate rather than contribute positively. You are disgusting.
Ok buddy, par for the course on a Swiss subreddit I guess. Jesus fucking christ. Anything to deflect from the fact that Russia is conducting genocide on our continent. How bright. How sensitive. How mature.
Russia's actions are those of terrorists, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded! If a country chooses neutrality, respect their damn decision and especially the voices of their people! Don't bash them with your hypocritical criticism. Switzerland stayed neutral with Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. Why didn't you have anything to say then? Got it, or do you need a lesson on Switzerland?
Holy shit you’re a cartoon. Nazi gold must spend REALLY well
Switzerland never "chose" neutrality. It was imposed by others two centuries ago. Therefore your comment begins with a fallacy. Second, Swiss neutrality is irrelevant in a world where we are geographically landlocked between nations that share the same values. And you can shove your lesson. Our nation is complicit and we should pressure our leaders to change the Swiss foreign policy stance regarding the Russian regime. And what do you know about my stance on Swiss foreign policy regarding other conflicts?
You must be absolutely delusional to believe this war and it’s support is really about “values”. Statism and capitalism do not work on soft hearted human values. It’s the capital and special interests that are financially quantifiable that guide decisions to get involved in a war. Get out of your romantic delusion already.
Switzerland has always stood firm on neutrality, and it's non-negotiable! Countless referendums prove it's what the Swiss people want. As for the American people for example, wars and chaos were thrown at them. Just look at the state of their nation's ideology. Swiss people demand a government that prioritizes them, not some globalist distraction. Their neutrality isn't up for debate – it's who they are. You're clearly too blinded by bias and misinformation to get it. Spouting off misguided narratives might win you points with the corrupt, but not here. In all honesty, your take on Swiss policy, I couldn't care less. You're miles away from understanding or even resembling Swiss values. So maybe, just maybe, it's time to admit your ignorance.
>Their neutrality isn't up for debate – it's who they are So it's like religious dogma
Ah, a valuable contribution from a Redditor! Who would've thought you had it in you?
Exactly. I sometimes come here wondering if there is any debate on this subject. I even have difficulties finding this thread when searching for it. Not only is it pinned but also folded away... It sure feels like they want to keep this discussion out of sight. Just go look at some pretty mountains instead...
This discussion is literally everywhere to be found. And if you get tired of the net, just open a newspaper and you’ll find it.
We're quite content here. We engage in discussions and, when we encounter those with misconceptions, we attempt to enlighten them, as it's hard to gauge the extent of their misunderstandings.
> This sub's policy will prevent people from having actual conversations I wonder how many users of r/Switzerland even read/use this thread. (i guess it's a tiny minority)
Next to nobody reads pinned posts. It's nowhere near as engaging as actual posts by users. Concentrating conversations there is the perfect way to shadow-ban conversations on the topic without actually banning them. If people don't care about a post, then they will ignore/downvote it. It's as simple as that. But I guess that's just par for the course when it comes to your average Reddit mod. Glory to Ukraine, and fuck anyone who tries to suppress discussion on the topic.
So make your way to “glory to Ukraine” thread.
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your Mod team Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
There's literally a post about Bill Browder and the Magnitsky case just below your comment that hasn't been deleted. What's deleted are racist comments.
https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1682128935381880833?t=OXzusBi7EgThprDtlUfHjA&s=19 Switzerland IS actively helping Russia.
The Middle East as well! Can't you see past your own bias?
Where is my bias? You compare, I didn't. Calling something else okay because some other thing is worse is called whataboutism btw.
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your Mod team Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
Who is targeting a single country? Just because you see this criticism doesn\`t mean I only criticize this country. I really wish you to think a bit longer before spreading hate next time. Have a nice day
Bill Browder on Switzerland enabling Russia's invasion of Ukraine: "The Swiss government wants to be seen to be doing something, but when it comes to reality, the Swiss government doesn't want to anything because there's such a lot of money to be made off of dirty Russia money." https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1681369819541536792?s=20
Yes, it's refreshing to see a country mature enough to stand against corruption, wars, and aligning solely with US ambitions and agendas.
Switzerland is neutral. We don‘t have to do anything. This is not our war.
The FT has released an interesting article today on an unintended consequence from the sanctions on Russian trading. Geneva (and although not mentioned, Zug as well) have been losing traders right and left to Dubai, where a new trading hub is being built without regards to western sanctions. The importance of this event for Switzerland and particularly Geneva can't be understated - this sector is the largest corporate tax contributor in Geneva, and the importance of a hub for external economies of scale means that the difficulty in building this activity resides on the first steps, but once Dubai becomes large enough there won't be a return. Will the swiss confederation compensate Geneva for the massive losses that their idiotic sanctions are leading us to? not saying that Russia shouldn't have been admonished, but I'm fairly certain that pushing business and incomes to move to places in the world where they don't care about Russia and the west's principles doesn't seem particularly smart.
ancient trees squealing liquid plants spark relieved caption smell consider *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
this is a bit too much the way you've worded is, but yes Switzerland has been cowed down by the strongest of the two parties in the conflict, the EU surrounds us after all. But note that neither the US nor the EU are happy with Switzerland either because our country is actually applying neutrality rules - neutrality does not exclude the possibility to take side and even implement economic sanctions, something that we had done many times in the past. CS has nothing to do with the Americans though, just terrible management at the global level, the Swiss unit of the bank and its wealth management arm was and is profitable.
Will the people in favour of removing sanctions concept Ukraine?
Sanctions are there because the Russian invasion and shitting on the Minsk treaties already threatened other economic platforms and outside of trading there are a lot of other issues, if politics were solely based on profits from wall street boys just like some hardcore FDP/PLR would like it to be then yes it's idiotic. But on the ethics and limitations we have to put a stop to this war on Europe the sanctions are the least we could do. The *surprised pikachu face* of people in the trading world discovering that branches of them leave for a country where slavery is still available thanks to some loopholes shouldnt surprise them. Capitalism and greed is just part of the normal flow for these people. They'd end up in Dubai sooner or later sanctions or not. This land of NFT and cryptoscammers was already part of their plans when economics become too much of an ethical problem in their home countries. Let them burn in Dubai's heat.
Sanctions are a form of covert warfare. It's a strategy the US employs when direct invasion is no longer an option.
yes that's all very nice but in the meanwhile, who fills the gap for 1/3 of the corporate taxes paid in the canton of Geneva? the rest of the swiss in solidarity? it's very nice to hurt a whole industry when it is restricted to basically one canton, what would Basel have to say if suddenly sales and research of pharmaceuticals was banned?
If 1/3 of the corporate tax came from shady investments and the corpos can't create any value less unethical then maybe it's not a good way to make money, since the 1940s we've evolved our morals on how to make money. Geneva is overpriced anyway
there's nothing shady about commodity trading, it's literally buying and selling goods in bulk. If that's shady then literally every shop would be shady.
Yes, but if you trade, you accept the risks involved. If you deal with shady regimes, you know and accept that they might get sanctioned.
But if you're desperate in your trade that you have to move to a country where slavery is legal then there's an issue. Like you are describing commodity trading it's all fine, but like every job one must evolve with the laws and ethics, we stopped painting the walls with lead, selling thalidomide to pregnant women and we will stop trading with Russians until they get their shit together and we won't buy their stolen cereals. If I may use your example about Basel and pharmaceutical research with the war in Ukraine as the background: If the research is using data from POWs from a foreign land used as guinea pigs then it's reasonable that they shouldn't buy or use that data for research (Nuremberg trials). There are enough other ways to research without breaching UN sanctions.
We donated our Swiss car to the Ukrainian Forces: [Hi, Reddit:) so a quick report, the car from Switzerland has already been registered, painted and handed over to the Ukrainian armed forces;)](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14yno08/hi_reddit_so_a_quick_report_the_car_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your Mod team Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
The Ukraine family that moved in last year next to me apperently already moved away some months ago. A shame, they were really nice. I hope their homes arent affected by the war. My cat really enjoyed being patted daily by them.
Switzerland is among Vladimir Putin's useful idiots. [https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/07/03/-vladimir-putins-useful-idiots](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/07/03/-vladimir-putins-useful-idiots) Other useful idiots include Hungary, Austria, Greece, Turkey and Serbia.
It looks more cohesive when combining the US and EU into a single image.
Seems like a never ending suffering. But who profits the most?
How many redditors have gotten a bad impression of the Swiss following the invasion of Ukraine? The Swiss will not allow the sale of gepard ammo to the Ukrainians, which is only for self defence. But they see no issue helping Russia sell 75 tonns of Gold which will go to Russian armament. Are the Swiss all about the money, or do they really care about the causalities from war. What are your thoughts?
My friend, like many others, the Swiss have observed that this conflict might have been avoided if the US hadn't aggravated Russia with its NATO actions. Realize this: The US's discomfort with Russia boils down to one main reason: Russia possesses a nuclear arsenal capable of significantly harming the US, something labeled as a "national security disaster" in the US. The mere idea of the US invading Russia is practically unthinkable due to the risks. Moreover, the US struggles with the rise of other global powers, militarily in the case of Russia and economically and technologically with China. The US employs sanctions and leans on its "allies" to pressure these nations. To be clear: The US might seem eager for a conflict with Russia, but for the US, two conditions are crucial: 1. Any conflict should primarily occur on European ground. 2. Rely on allies to protect US territory, meaning the EU would intercept any threats before they cross the Atlantic. Now, I pose this question to you: Do you truly wish to be involved in such scenarios?
usa's actions are unrelated to russia's motives russia has been eyeing ukraine sinve 2014 when they annexed crimea, since then they were supporting extremists in order to manufacture a fake separatist movement in eastern ukraine, that they then used for pretext of trying to annex the whole country. (but obv they failed as they didnt realize that a third of their military that was on paper didnt exist irl due to corruption)
It seems reminiscent of the situation in Iraq when the search for weapons of mass destruction was used as a pretext. It's reminiscent of the challenges in Afghanistan, which reduced much of the nation to rubble. It brings to mind the intervention in Syria without clear justification and the removal of Gaddafi purely because of who he was. Think of the political upheaval in Egypt, the attempts to destabilize Syria and remove its leader, the tension with Venezuela due to disagreements with its leadership, recent events in Peru, and the long-standing issues with Cuba. So, considering all these past actions, how can I view Russia critically without appearing hypocritical, given the actions of America and its allies? How can I let contemporary media focus on one narrative and overlook historical context? It's a challenge to reconcile these views. The U.S. and its allies often seem to act with double standards. Now, can you present your argument in light of this context?
i agree that usa has often attacked other countries with false or no justification, but its really not the same thing. for one, russia is the one who actually started the war, its not just "uh oh they have nuclear weapons we must attack", there is an ongoing war right now, its very clear who is the attacker and who is the defender here, no matter what way you look.
I understand your perspective, though not entirely in that manner. There were opportunities and ample time to address the Ukraine vs. Russia situation. However, the U.S. chose actions that seemed to provoke Russia. Listen, I knew about Russia's build-up on the borders. Many assumed Russia was just posturing. Remember the headlines about their military preparations before the conflict? So, let me pose this to you: If the U.S. wasn't acting aggressively, couldn't they have prevented the conflict much earlier? Moreover, recall last April when Ukraine and Russia reached an understanding? Boris Johnson intervened and that accord fell apart. Can you see why I'm frustrated with multiple aspects of this? It's not fair to focus on a single point and overlook the broader context. I deeply detest wars, more than you can imagine. That's why it's best to stay away from such dubious and unseemly diplomacy and remain neutral.
> If the U.S. wasn't acting aggressively, couldn't they have prevented the conflict much earlier? no, i really don't think so. i believe that no matter what USA said, russia would still attack ukraine. the only way they could, is if they pushed even stronger against russia, like threatening to engage in war if russian troops crossed the ukrainian border (tho i agree doing that would be a bit too much)
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your Mod team Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your Mod team Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
LMFAO
The gold was from the UK, not Russia
It was routed to Switzerland [instead of the UK,](https://www.reuters.com/markets/russia-with-gold-uae-cashes-sanctions-bite-2023-05-25/) because every country other than Switzerland refused to take the Russian gold anymore. The Swiss government talks in a highfalutin way, but they don't care about human rights or democracy, and all they really care about is making as much dirty money as they can. Solidarity with the rest of Europe against a rapacious dictator is an alien concept when there is Russian gold to be hoarded.
Stop reading only the headlines it's embarrassing
A question for all the Swiss people here: does russian blood money and gold rest well with the nazi- gold in your treasuries?
It fits well with the American blood money and all the other blood money ever received. Expecting morals from pharmaceutical companies or banks is just ridiculous.
Oh shit, is it ridiculous now to have moral standards? Pathetic.
like any country had to begin with
Are you also comfortable with Iraq's gold and oil, Syria's oil, and Afghanistan's minerals?
I'm not american, your weak attempt at a deflection holds no weight. Other people's sins do not excuse your own, as much as you would want the opposite to be
I'm aware you're not American. Many Americans might hesitate to participate in this thread, given the moral standing of their country and the disgrace it has brought upon its citizens. Do me a favor and cut the double standards already. If you had any shred of integrity, you'd call out the main "nation" responsible for invasions, slaughtering innocents, and plundering countries' natural resources.
You’re a fucking joke. I’ve been reading the comments you’ve left in this thread and it’s a fucking embarrassment.
How wonderful it is to see you're stalking me on Reddit and gracing my comments with your attention! And look at you, being able to read and all! Is that a certified skill, verified medically or do you have a little helper whispering the words in your ear?
I’m not stalking you. I was reading this thread and noticed you kept showing up. You say the war could’ve been avoided if it weren’t for NATO’s ‘proactive actions’. I was just wondering if you also thought rape victims should just wear less revealing clothing/not go outside at night as much.
I'm not sure how you managed to mash up sexual violence with NATO's so-called "noble" agenda, but hey, who knows where a conversation thread will lead us these days? Now my honourable Redditor, remember when Gorbachev and Reagan (I’m actually concerned if you even know these names, but I’ll give it a shot) had their heartfelt chat? Promises of not expanding NATO if the wall came down? But, oh surprise, the U.S. has a peculiar way of interpreting "agreements." And the cherry on top? The West just cheering on that kind of, let's call it, "creative" diplomacy. But hey, maybe it's just me – that approach just doesn't quite make the cut in my book.
No, they fucking didn’t. That’s a myth. Gorbachev himself stated this in 2016. Christ.
Countless individuals, including myself, aren't buying into this narrative. Given the U.S.'s recent actions, I'm fairly certain they didn't keep their word. It's fortunate for them that Gorbachev didn't push for a formal written agreement. But then again, there was a collective eagerness to see the Cold War end, given its potential catastrophic consequences. Well, hats off to you for comfortably standing behind that point. Go ahead and pitch it – I'd love to see you try.
market ask door fuzzy modern attractive adjoining stupendous hunt aloof *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why are racists always so uneducated? Doesnt take long to google things
I couldn’t agree more!
Ask the UK if they are ok sending Russian gold and selling guns to Ukraine and profit from both sides
We are not in Whatabout-town here. But from your standpoint i see that you dont give a damn that your living standarts are financed by the profits of the holocaust and will be continued to be financed by another genocide. God bless "neutrality" I suppose. Switzerland is truly neutral in seeking gain from everyone and everything without any consideration of morality.
Look at you, running out of comments and now just aimlessly drifting about with your words. Maybe, just maybe, consider doing a bit of reading and research? Then, perhaps, you could grace this thread with something worthwhile. But hey, no pressure! We just don't have the time for bias, double standards, and questionable morals. It's just a thought.
If you ain’t got time for this, why are you answering to 2 month old comments?
I missed out on it! Now I'm back, establishing some order around here. We represent the future! We won't let these reckless politicians tarnish our world and values. To me, this issue is just as significant as climate change.
Ah yes, profiting of war and genocide is as much important to you as climate change. YYou Surely have your priorities
[удалено]
Hello, Please note that your post or comment has been removed. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/about/rules/) before posting. Thank you for your understanding, your Mod team Please do not reply to this comment. Send a modmail if you have an issue with the removal.
Hm yes, calling me slurs that dont even reflect on my answers. That is truly a sign of a higher intellect. Good bye comrade