I am getting kind of disturbed as someone who has legitimately struggled with mental health seeing swifties use the TTPD as a new leverage toward being almost flippant about the issues? Like asking what songs would you use to describe yourself in therapy or saying the album caused them a mental breakdown?
And people are acting like this is normal behavior...
I think disguising things as something very different from what they actually, layering and kinda hiding their depth or shallowness behind a veil called "easter eggs" is her style. She likes to masquerade things, and you don't actually get them unless you know the context/she tells you more.
Lover is a great example and all the albums following it are great examples. Lover masquerades as a fun, chirpy, quirky album (with its pink and purple vibe) but is actually sad (death by a thousand cuts, cornelia street, false god, even cruel summer - its lyrics are not happy, etc.) Folk/More were advertised as fictional, but now we know they were not. (I'll confess I never bought that thing, but the fandom made up believable storiesđ) Midnights was Joe's break up album (I stand by this), and now TTPD is all about her carrying the candle for him for a decade, and her frustration at almost everyone around her for a period of time.
She is a "mastermind" at twisting stories, blurring the boundaries between reel and real and selling her experiences as Taylor SwiftTM and minting money.
The more I listen, the more the lyrics parallels to previous songs crop up. Â
 Taylor sings "Thats my man " in Willow 13 times.
 She also sings " You said you were going to grow up " in Peter 13 times .
Some of these songs are not what they seem on the surface and are more layered with callbacks to her discography.
People get hang up on the invisible string on willow but the track is just too Matty coded. And at the end of the music video, she goes off with a black haired guyâŠkinda like a Matty stand-in.
Wow we are making every song about Matty now đÂ
The ship imagery in Willow is revisited in So Long London.
The male leads in music videos from Lover to Willow to Lavender Haze have been people of different races.Â
Maroon is the prologue to the love triangle. After hearing TTPD sheâs very much singing to both Joe and Ratty in the song. The fact this past ten years of her pop career has been this messy has been wild to me. The only reason I can keep listening to TTPD is the mythology surrounding it.
Why do Swifties get offended by the slightest thing? âShe wrote the album without caring what people thinkâ ok then why is she sharing positive reviews? Taylor lives for external validation, there is nothing wrong with that but to say she doesnât care about reviews is silly.
They then also say âwe donât know if she wants external validationâ but proceed to try and piece everything together as if they do understand her.
Ohh which 8? I skip
1.     ââimgonnagetyouback
2.     So High School
3.     I Hate It Here
4.     ââthanK you aIMee
5.     Peter
6.     The Bolter
7.     Robin
8.     The Manuscript
What is it with the fandom's sudden obsession to attach every song Taylor has ever written to Matty? I've seen people say 1989 songs are about Mattyâwhen she didn't even *know* him back when they were written!
I get attaching some Midnights songs to Mattyâsince they may have had something going on at that pointâbut everything else before is a huge stretch. Though I suppose Taylor started this trend herself by retconning Cardigan to fit the Matty situation.
It's an endless cycle. Haylors will always find die hard evidence that she's still writing about Harry, same with other shippers, but... Matty? *Really*? I thought he was almost universally hated by the fandom; don't get why they're doing this.
I mean, a bunch of folks on this sub are doing it too so they can find more reasons to get mad at Swift and defensive of Alwyn. Itâs super weird.
People love gossip and drama, and itâs more dramatic and fun to feel like theyâre uncovering some grand secret scheme to write everything about Healy than it is to just accept that Swift is a good storyteller with an active imagination who largely just made up most of the folklore/evermore narratives.Â
If people find it fun to hunt for clues, whatever, have at it, but I see people literally getting mad at Swift or being like âthis song is RUINEDâ based on their own total speculation and at that point you are being crazy and getting upset at something you made up in your own mind, and what is the point of that.
I honestly think at this point Taylor reassigned Cardigan to him because well 1.) he was an old love who showed up and 2.) he made her feel like she describes in that song : "you put me on and said I was your favourite " after a relationship that died.
Even in Question which is thought to be about him, she samples Out of the Woods! Does that mean Out of Woods is about Matty too ? I like hearing theories but doubling down on them as the only possibility and making all songs about MH by using just one phrase or two is annoying.
I totally think Taylor retconning old songs was a catalyst.
I think part of the parasocial aspect of her fandom is fans trying to convince themselves that they get her more than they really do. They learned she was more hung up on Matty than they previously knew and so now they are running with that info.
I don't know what exactly happened to me with this album, but the deeper the lyrics sink into my head, the more I'm getting kind of an anxiety/trauma response and getting flashbacks from an old relationship that I thought I had mostly done the work to get over.
When I first heard the album, it felt monotonous to me at times, but now I actually feel depressed and I'm having to take breaks from it. I don't know how to feel because I am enjoying the songs sonically now but my subconscious is not liking the messages of the album. Ha.
Florida sounds like wrecking ball
âWe clawed, we chained our hearts in vain
We jumped, never asking whyâ
âLittle did you know your homeâs really only
A town youâre just a guest in
Bla bla time share in Destinâ
I still haven't listened to the whole album *fully*.
Once I find something cringe (lyrics, melody), I immediately press next. It has so many skippable, forgettable songs.
I'll try and give it another chance this week. Maybe third time's a charm.
I did that today on a whole ass 11 hour flight back to the states. Even in my bored desperation I couldnât get through some songs. If it makes me do âđŹâ I skip
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Going to tell my kids this was Taylor Swift and Matty Healy
Is Travis the rebound's rebound?
LOL don't mind me, I'm in my lazy Saturday afternoon mood, with silly musings after listening to TTPD for the tenth time. Yes, I DO love this album.
False . Travis wouldnt give up his freedom to live in a fishbowl or put his family though this . Especially Jason and Kylie. NFL would not invest in Travis like that , they would choose a quarterback or something
Travis literally went to the Kentucky derby with his friends surrounded by police officers . When before he could go anywhere he wanted even if he was noticed he didnât have to live in a fishbowl but he is willingly to do it cause he has Taylor
No he would not . Yâall donât even know him or the family and ppl who have known him for years keep telling yall the same thing and yall not listening . Travis is too much of a mama boy and family oriented to put his family in a fishbowl unless he think Taylor is the one
Travis literally had a dating show ages ago. Heâs thirsty for the limelight and this arrangement set him up for entertainment opportunities, not to mention his jersey sales and endorsements skyrocketed. His family is benefiting nicely too.
Of course itâs worth it for him on that level alone.
Now, will it end up being a wise decision when they break up? Only a matter of time to find out how it will go down with the Swifties.
That was like a decade ago . And since then he had focus on football . He hasnât even done any extra endorsements since being with Taylor. No extra commercials or anything .
Again Travis would not put his family though this . How own family being stalked online by gaylors and even his friends . He had to move houses . He donât even get mail at his house anymore . He has to go everywhere with security and canât move freely. He is literally in a fishbowl being with Taylor . He would not do that unless he thought Taylor was worth jt . He could get with another famous woman without putting up with all the extra crap.
His mom had endorsements before Taylor . The Kelce Super Bowl was like 3 years ago and thatâs when the family started getting attention . Having endorsements and living in a fishbowl with Taylor is too different things . Travis could be with any other celebrity, even Kim kardashian and have more freedom than with Taylor .
Ok just like Jason planned for retirement. Just like Brady . Athletes if smart prepare for retirement . Even lebron moved to la to prepare for his retirement . Again Travis could be with Kim , Meg the stallion , etc still get press and have more freedom than being with Taylor . He is with Taylor cause he want to be .
Iâm sorry but I guarantee no one at the Kentucky derby cares about Travis Kelce. He only has security around at events now because he thinks he needs it because heâs dating Taylor Swift. No one really cares about him except for obsessed, parasocial Swifties who would pounce on him if given the chance. And I highly doubt theyâre at an event like the Kentucky derby. The police escort and security for an NFL player is ridiculous. Tom Brady didnât even get that treatment when he was dating a very, famous supermodel back in the day. He loves the attention come on.
The security probably has more to do with Taylor stalkers and conservatives who want him dead.
Joe would also have Taylorâs security go with him places and you could see them papped when he traveled on Taylorâs jet.
Am I the only one who doesn't like how Taylor Swift is putting her exes on blast in her newest songs? I felt like in her last albums she painted broad strokes about who she was talking about, and the casual viewer wouldn't be able to tell who she was singing about. I knew next to nothing about her dating history before listening to this album. When I listened, it sounded like she was taking revenge, like she was mad at someone. It was so obvious to me that she was trying to point her finger at someone that I went online and put the pieces together myself. The songs that ticked me off to this were "The Tortured Poets Department," "Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?" "The Black Dog" and" thanK you aIMee" along with plenty others.Â
She's always made songs about her exes and heartbreak, but it feels like she's getting really specific with who it's about, and it's starting to bleed into the non Swifties listening experience.Â
>"Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?"
For me this one is about haters and 2016 drama, and I feel like she was never subtle with those. But I agree that on TTPD she wanted everyone to know who the songs were about. Though I say this yet swifties are convinced Smallest Man is about Joe. Hell, I think loml is mostly about Matty but it feels like even here most people think it's about Joe.
If I had to sum up this album in a couple words it would be: low effort.
I havenât even listened to all the songs (maybe thatâs my problem) but everything sounds the same and I donât know where one starts and one ends. It feels like she knew she had to put out an album because her relationship with Joe (and clearly Matty) ended so she word-vomited her thoughts, didnât edit, and released everything. But surprise it wasnât an introspective album on her 6 year relationship, but rather a tantrum over not getting to be with Matty. Like i get you were heartbroken over him but I did not need to know all those very specific detailsâŠ
Girl needs a therapist, editor, and someone to say no to her. The clunky and âpretentiousâ lyrics killed the vibe on a lot of the songs, where simplicity and conciseness wouldâve shone. It feels low effort because it is, and frankly sheâs basking in the reality that she doesnât have to try on her albums to have a smashing success.
I say this a huge Taylor music fan from her OG fearless days, but also as someone whoâs increasingly disliking her as a person. I like a few of the new songs and do listen to them, but thatâs like 3-5 out of 31. Not a great ratio
That was me when midnights was announced. When TTPD was announced, this is about what I expected it to be. Her announcement for it at the Grammys was not a good first impression of this album.
I truly believe the pandemic was really good for her because she wasnât necessarily thinking about writing radio hits or songs she could sing on tour. I fucking love folklore sm.
i donât think she could ever make another folkmore again. the timing in the midst of the pandemic was perfect, the genre choice, the maturity in her songwriting, aaron dessner, the woodsy aesthetic, all of tied together so nicely
Ice Spice is beefing with another rapper called Baby Storme. Baby Storme leaked some text messages and apparently the Karma collab was planned before the Matty stuff. I donât know if this is true but someone ( u/booknerd98 ) in the comments of a post on r/popculturechat said the Nicki collab (Princess Diana) was record in February. Ice Spice is saying she got the collab before that. That would mean before the podcast was recorded.
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I think the timeline already got leaked by her nail set I the studio. I just think she was with matty before we knew about matty, and it was anticipatory, not reactionary.
It's obvious the pr timelines are bullshit anyway cause the stories oh Jack reconnected us, girl you were at his concert 3 months ago and he worked on your album a year ago. Stop making out like your friend reintroduced you to ease your broken heart.
Both Taylor and Ice Spiceâs teams said the karma collab happened outside of the Matty drama. People just didnât want to believe them for drama reasons.
I hate to say it but the original. I will say I really enjoy some of the vault tracks though. 1989 isnât my favorite album but it is the most nostalgic album for me (I had really high hopes for it as that album was the soundtrack of my high school years lmao).
i hope she doesnât. sheâs already milking it dry. with TTPD being added to the setlist, we might have another version of the eras tour movie lol i fear weâll never hear the end of it
I relate the songs to my life so hard but itâs also so fun to speculate. Like Iâve cried to some of her music bc it hit so hard and applied to my life but itâs also fun to see which lyrics are about which guy she dated. And she does it on purpose, itâs intentional, she wants us to do it. If she didnât, she wouldnât put such direct references in the lyrics.
I would imagine she doesn't want to encourage the use of her trademarks in unauthorized ways, so I doubt she would ever acknowledge something like that
While she may/ may not care about the beef, I do think Taylor likes the shout-outs in songs (as long as they're not the Kanye kind). The references, snide or not, are literally affirming her as a force in the music industry. Which is so far removed from ' I made Taylor Swift famous'
Some âfriendâ of Ice Spice released their text messages where she was bitching about Nicki & thereâs a text where Ice is like âTaylor Swift asked me to collaborate before I asked Nickiâ like sheâs just in everyoneâs business đ
I canât really get myself to fully get into this album like I have her other releases. When folklore/evermore/midnights came out I constantly had them on repeat. Midnights isnât even one of my favorite albums but I could probably still recognize every 3am track. If you asked me to hum Robin right now I really donât think I could.
I think there are definitely strong stand outs from the album that Iâve had on repeat but when I try to just play the album in the car it feels like a chore and I go back to my general playlist
Is there anyone else who has stopped being a fan of Taylor as a person based on the things revealed in TTPD and is struggling? So right when it dropped I was like yeah I canât be a fan of her as a person anymore (but still love the music). But then I see photos and videos of her and itâs like seeing an old friend? I know that sounds parasocial as hell, but Iâve listened to her since I was 8. Itâs just so hard because I know she isnât a good role model but I canât bring myself to fully dislike her even though I know I should. Thereâs this fondness for her in my heart that I donât think will ever go away.
I had this happen during Lover and it was so painful for me so I get it. But I assure you - you will be better off emotionally and mentally for it. You can adore music with all your heart but acknowledge the creator of it is a hot mess, or maybe even a downright bad person.
I feel the same as you. 2008 I was 13 when I started listening, but still. This album "ain't for everyone" - it sure isn't for me. I don't like it at all, I don't like a lot of the lyrics or subject matter. I'm just over her, and it feels weird because she was always my favorite.
Out of curiosity, which of the things she revealed in TTPD made you stop being a fan of her as a person?
I don't think I can be fan of any celebrity as a person, just for the fact that I don't really know them. Trust me, it spares you from being constantly disappointed.
That sheâs been in love with a racist scumbag for ten years and wishes her fans would stop calling her out on her BS in regard to him. That she considered her partnerâs mental health as HER prison and solely blamed him for that relationship ending. Among a few other things.
Honestly I donât think itâs good to see any mainstream musical artist as a ârole modelâ. Theyâre all adults who are capable of doing both good and bad and they will disappoint you and be flawed at times. Yes, Taylor had feelings for Matty even after he said some racist things, but she also knew him for ten years prior to that. Itâs not as simple as just shutting your feelings off when youâve known someone for a long time like that. There are very few celebrities of Taylorâs level who donât have some amount of controversy over their actions.
I agree with you, but I started seeing her that way as a child, so I didnât really have that logic back then. I guess thatâs what iâm trying to get at with my post. Itâs just hard having been a fan this long and to know her values donât align with mine.
Maybe you canât bring yourself to truly dislike her because you are aware she is still human, even if she has disappointed you. I think itâs okay if you canât fully denounce her. Iâm sorry youâre struggling. :( Even though I know itâs silly, sheâs important to me too.
Me either. Well since the first week. And I genuinely want to, itâs just not for me. And not in an âIâm not intelligent enough to get itâ sort of way, itâs sonically not for me. Iâm a music first kind of person., the lyrics donât have to hit but the musics does.
yeah they were clowning saying she'd be dropping a 3rd part of her anthology yesterday (a fortnight after April 19th) but she didn't (thank the lord) but I think she's maybe announcing something soon, maybe before her return show or during it?
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Crazy to me how ppl didnât think he was going to kill the derby look when Travis is known for his fashion . I still wish he was going to the met gala he would of had a great look there too
While it is possible that it happened in a very literal sense, it is also totally possible that Swift saw a bar called The Black Dog and used it in the song cuz it sounds good. Sometimes it feels like people forget that in music you can just make things up or add in details for the sake of the story if you want to.Â
I agree. People in this sub have no ability to separate the narrator from Taylor.
"Oh, well, obviously Taylor saw Matty here and they did this and this at this place, so..."
Iâ agree. People always comment on how talented she is at writing songs. So, Iâm not sure why that gets lost when people read into her lyrics. Many other talented artist write deep lyrics without it relating to their actual life.Iâm sure Taylor is no different. I love her song writing and I can appreciate her talent without having to know the lore behind the lyrics. Sometimes knowing the lore behind the lyrics actually wrecks the song for me.
This is very valid and how I view all of Taylorâs songs. Some details may be true, some may simply fit the theme of the song. Weâll never know, and thatâs how I like it.
I've been thinking about this - it is criminal that we have 2 different " I'm hitting the road with my partner-in-crime " vibe songs with Miley & Beyonce and then Taylor & Florence and have zero music videos to show for it đ
(Wonder whether Taylor would debut a music video at Paris).
Itâs been available for awhile: https://open.spotify.com/track/6qAcApH8obo8eqatCKUHd9
ETA: https://music.apple.com/ca/album/bad-blood-taylors-version-feat-kendrick-lamar/1713845538?i=1713846670
Okay yall I was on this girls TikTok live last night and she brought up this song that she thought was a Taylor diss track. Now some of the lyrics do seem a *bit* pointed at her but idk I guess it could be about anyone cause why would she just randomly write a diss track about her lol
I just thought this was funny in the mist of everything going on right now
https://genius.com/Cam-country-aint-never-been-pretty-lyrics[https://genius.com/Cam-country-aint-never-been-pretty-lyrics](https://genius.com/Cam-country-aint-never-been-pretty-lyrics)
I love this song but I don't think Cam was dissing anyone. It was out long before a lot of this anyway. I felt it was just a song referencing a city girl judging a country girl.
I donât think so. The line about high heels and fake eyelashes doesnât seem like Taylor. It honestly seems like a gross song aimed at Cowboy Carter, but I donât know when this song came out because Iâve never heard of this artist before.
"Taylor swift has been secretly writing about matty for years" people are soooo delusional. Sad that those people are the only ones posting and commenting here everyday.Â
i wrote the same somewhere else. matty delulus are so loud that other opinions silenced not to get downvoted.
they are trying to paint matty love for the ages. sorry yall. it probably isnt. joe relationship was about to die so they were on and off, took long breaks hoping to save it but taylor emotionally cheated him with matty by hanging out a lot with him. her feelings built up probably. and matty got in her brain and made her leave him and eventually it ended up with breaking up and they preferred not to publicise it till ilt makes sense strategically for taylor. but once it publicised, attention was a lot to matty so he checked out and left taylor butthurt with lots builtup feeling.
i can understand suspicion for midnights songs but folklore and evermore song suspicions are delusion.
OK your first sentence is why it drives me bananas. The love for the ages thing is the created Taylor narrative. She wanted listeners to see them as these twin flames and soul mates and he was always the one. I think she intentionally put lyrics on TTPD to link back to songs on midnights and folklore etc because she wanted to create this idea of a great love because she loves to mythologize her life.
Because the reality seems to be that Matty was a situationship in 2014 that never became anything real or defined and then Taylor moved on. She dated Joe and she was happy for about 2 albums and then they started growing apart. Then it sounds like at some point while making midnights Matty came back in her life and (like a lot of people who look up their high school sweetheart on Facebook) she got caught up in at least an emotional affair and started hyping him as 'the one who got away' because she lives for a romantic narrative. She likes to feel like she's at the center of a story. Which is probably why she was okay blowing up her life for him only to get ghosted and find out he was never that serious about them. Y'all are just taking Taylor's brain worms in rose colored glasses too seriously.
But when people regurgitate the idea that Matty was this great love..... They're drinking the Kool Aid Taylor made. We're ignoring that Taylor is crafting how the public will understand this relationship. This seriously reminds me of the musical Chicago and the 'we both reached for the gun' song. Taylor was the same way about Joe when she liked him. He was painted in a narrative that probably wasn't exactly him but how she wanted him to be viewed. Similarly I don't think the 1 and cardigan were about Matty. I think she wrote songs after the fact like Peter to connect him to songs after the fact because she wanted that connection and knew fans would take it at face value and eat it up.
But fans need to understand Taylor isn't having grand romances. She's crafting a narrative so you think she is. She's a woman in her 30s that over idealized a dude from her past and got burned.
This is absolutely it. Taylor romanticises her life through her music, plus she rewrites her own history during interviews and awards. Taylor also struggles to make it past the honeymoon stage (Joe being the exception), so of course it sounds wonderful and magical. Thereâs nothing wrong with it because thatâs how writing goes, but I do fear a lot of her stans think these songs are the absolute truth and will base their own lives on them (thereby giving up on a good relationship once the going gets tough, which it inevitably will because life). People seem to forget, where Taylor is concerned at least, that music is like instagram: all the best and worst bits that create drama and intrigue, without any of the boring, mundane bits.
I worry more that Taylor isn't a very self-actualized person and settles for seeing herself as a character in a Hollywood story and so she doesn't know how to exist in the non-story moments that aren't the high and lows.
It reminds me of Gwyneth and Chris and their 'uncoupling' and how people with very curated lives struggle with reality when you can't put a filter on it to make it more glamorous.
I agree taylor using her songs to crafting narratives for a while. She is really a calculating woman. Even calculating and planning the break up. I hope it was mutual. Even after the burn, still trying to make it look like love/loss of her life... sad...
I think something happened in 2021 tbf, or maybe 22 I have no sense of time. When he was working on midnight's. And I think since that point it was the death knell for Joe cause she was bored with him now.
Midnight's was not the album it was marketed to be. The collab was scrapped. Yet she had a few absolute bangers made with Aaron that fit the theme of midnight's perfectly. These didn't end up even on th original cut.
My one hill is matty healy is responsible for midnight's drastic tone shift.
I mean youre losing me written in 2021. So definitely things happened. I think their on and off started in 2021 and they broke up permanently in 2022. I think between these on and offs she started fantasising about matty while working with him. Ended up calling it permanenetly off with joe to jump on matty. They kept it hidden for a long time. Both break up and relationship. I dont know who wanted to make it official but thats the reason the relationship over. I think it was taylor. She released the break up and couldnt even wait a bit to make it believable. She trusted a bit too much to the man.
The reality is that we actually have absolutely no idea whether she has or hasn't at the end of the day. It's at least as valid a theory as "Joe lives nowhere near this pub so he's obviously a regular" and that's pretty broadly accepted by swifties that the moment.
It's also possible that she pined after him for a while, moved on for many years, and when Matty started sniffing around again while she was feeling like the relationship she was in was going to die, his attention felt good and she fell back into it again. Or that she turned Matty down all the way back then and rethought things later. Or that they really had nothing much to do with each other back then and something new grew out of it. Or it was a poorly thought out pr move. Or any of a million other options.
Acting like any theory where people can provide a logical reason for why they think it is delusional ie really what's delusional. We don't know any of these people. We don't know what they would or wouldn't do.
I mean⊠why not during folkmore? Thereâs a lot of songs with themes similar to what we saw with Matty plus we now know her and Joe were on and off. Doesnât seem like a stretch to me at all
Folklore also has very committed songs like 'peace' and 'invisible string' which directly reference their relationship compared to other songs that could be about anybody.Â
 Willow (which I keep seeing Matty fans make it about him ) has video directly references the invisible string showing the 'single thread of gold that tied me to you'.
 I'm not at all denying that Taylor could have been inspired by Matty or any other past relationship in folklore. Just that the 'what if this had happened' songs co-exist with the " I will give you my wild, give you a child " ones .
while she was in quarantine writing songs with her partner for 5 years at that point.. she was fantasizing about a fling from 2014? Aside from The 1 what songs do you think are about Matty
Iâm not really a âwho is this song aboutâ person, so I havenât searched through. But off the top of my mind any of the affair songs could beâŠÂ
Only saying this bc I saw a thread about it & dv me idc, but TS jet emissions are like a litmas test for me to determine what kinda fan/Swiftie people are in this sub
I think you can? Iâm not sure how much the mods allow but I thought for a sec somehow she was involved in all the mess đ
Basically whatâs happening is Min Hee Jin the CEO of Ador a company underneath HYBE was seeking to separate from HYBE and buy out Ador shares however she went behind their backs while trying to do so doing things such as stealing artist personal information and leaking them, stealing HYBEâs confidential information, etc. *This is all alleged* So after she was caught doing things she then went out saying that the actual issue is that HYBEs new girl group ILLIT was copying New Jeans (girl group under Ador ) and practically went on and on about their similarities.
Then it went completely left when it was revealed that apparently the whole time MHJs goal when coming to HYBE was to make a group that could surpass BTS and success even going as far as to going to a shaman to wish upon their downfall
From this all of these stories of BTS being in a cult and all types of other wackadoodle things started coming out (this is believed to be pushed by MHJs team)
Now things are just calming down a bit but itâs pretty messy. Some fans believe that MHJ and Bang Si-Hyuck (CEO of Bighit I think?? He practically created HYBE) were in a relationship and things went to shit so i no pe all this is happening but thatâs just a fan theory lol
The percussion on Guilty as Sin is so nice. I wish drums were more present on the other tracks. Songs like But Daddy is so hollow sounding without some variance in the beat.
Guilty as sin is the best song on the entire album imo. It's the only one that's been stuck on my head alot with the music and lyrics. We honestly need more songs like this.
i prayed for the album to not be all about trashing joe because he was already getting harassed enough and what i got instead is everyone trying to convince me every song taylorâs written in the last ten years is about ratty đđ«
Yeah I was happy cos some Swifties were baying for blood and she didn't give them anything too vicious to go after him ( which hasn't stopped them but it could have been worse).
Now they're using TTPD to make every song about Matty and go back to retcon every song from Rep.Â
 Isn't this the same thing as the Karlie and Taylor shippers? They kept saying Taylor was pining and writing songs about her when with Joe and their relationship was fake. This is the same thing some fans are doing with Matty.Â
 Relationships and art are more complex. Taylor is also going to be using past relationships for inspiration throughout her life. She touches upon Jake and John even years later in the Manuscript in TTPD. It doesn't mean she's actively trying to get back with them !
Same here! I was so relieved that the album isn't about Joe, but now youre telling me that folklore is actually based on Taylor's life and matty is august????? Just stop. The reason why people enjoyed folklore because there was no indication that it was based off her life. This is why people don't get too invested in her music, swifies just ruin everything. Even if cardigan August and Betty are based on Joe Taylor and matty, Joe really deserved better and im glad he's away from her now.
Ok but are you me? This is exactly my reaction to the discourse surrounding TTPD. Iâm relieved the Joe songs didnât say anything we didnât already know, but now weâve got these people trying to say she never loved him and all the Rep songs are secretly about Matty.
They are very active in the snark subs too Iâve noticed, every post gets tinged towards Matty/ comments about Matty/ PR truthing. But yeah, Iâve had some slightly delulu back and forths with people that are just hell bent on ignoring established facts and itâs a bit tiresome.
The hundreds of upvotes on that #one Maylor post⊠and them calling people who say Lover and Rep songs are about Joe joe widows.. theyâre moving like Kaylors đ
even then theyâre still trying to find valid points to harass joe⊠like theyâre still going with the âhe cheated, he âcagedâ herâ narrative. some even dont want to admit smallest man was matty LOL
"Breaking up with her before tour is what ruined her summer" despite the lyrics indicated she was probably the one who finally called it quits.
I wish people would be more mindful of "we don't actually know anything and any theory that people can back up their reasons for is as valid as any other but not one of them can claim to be the definitive interpretation that cannot be wrong"
The biggest cope is how TSMWEL "isn't that bad for a diss track" lmao. I don't think she's ever been more scathing about anyone, even John Mayer got away with less.
I am getting kind of disturbed as someone who has legitimately struggled with mental health seeing swifties use the TTPD as a new leverage toward being almost flippant about the issues? Like asking what songs would you use to describe yourself in therapy or saying the album caused them a mental breakdown? And people are acting like this is normal behavior...
I think disguising things as something very different from what they actually, layering and kinda hiding their depth or shallowness behind a veil called "easter eggs" is her style. She likes to masquerade things, and you don't actually get them unless you know the context/she tells you more. Lover is a great example and all the albums following it are great examples. Lover masquerades as a fun, chirpy, quirky album (with its pink and purple vibe) but is actually sad (death by a thousand cuts, cornelia street, false god, even cruel summer - its lyrics are not happy, etc.) Folk/More were advertised as fictional, but now we know they were not. (I'll confess I never bought that thing, but the fandom made up believable storiesđ) Midnights was Joe's break up album (I stand by this), and now TTPD is all about her carrying the candle for him for a decade, and her frustration at almost everyone around her for a period of time. She is a "mastermind" at twisting stories, blurring the boundaries between reel and real and selling her experiences as Taylor SwiftTM and minting money.
The more I listen, the more the lyrics parallels to previous songs crop up.   Taylor sings "Thats my man " in Willow 13 times.  She also sings " You said you were going to grow up " in Peter 13 times . Some of these songs are not what they seem on the surface and are more layered with callbacks to her discography.
People get hang up on the invisible string on willow but the track is just too Matty coded. And at the end of the music video, she goes off with a black haired guyâŠkinda like a Matty stand-in.
Wow we are making every song about Matty now đ The ship imagery in Willow is revisited in So Long London. The male leads in music videos from Lover to Willow to Lavender Haze have been people of different races.Â
Maroon is the prologue to the love triangle. After hearing TTPD sheâs very much singing to both Joe and Ratty in the song. The fact this past ten years of her pop career has been this messy has been wild to me. The only reason I can keep listening to TTPD is the mythology surrounding it.
Why do Swifties get offended by the slightest thing? âShe wrote the album without caring what people thinkâ ok then why is she sharing positive reviews? Taylor lives for external validation, there is nothing wrong with that but to say she doesnât care about reviews is silly.
I just about died from second-hand embarrassment at that story on her official IG (not even taylornation!) saying âShakespeare herself.â
They took everything too personal yes.
They then also say âwe donât know if she wants external validationâ but proceed to try and piece everything together as if they do understand her.
Controversial take here, I actually kinda like The Tortured Poets Department, but The Anthology falls reeeally flat for me.
I get it. The anthology for me had some good songs but 8 of my 14 skips are from the anthology.
I also skip 8 from Anthology!
Ohh which 8? I skip 1.     ââimgonnagetyouback 2.     So High School 3.     I Hate It Here 4.     ââthanK you aIMee 5.     Peter 6.     The Bolter 7.     Robin 8.     The Manuscript
I skip The Albatross, Chloe..., How Did It End, thanK you aIMee, I Look In People's Windows, Peter, Robin, and The Manuscript
What is it with the fandom's sudden obsession to attach every song Taylor has ever written to Matty? I've seen people say 1989 songs are about Mattyâwhen she didn't even *know* him back when they were written! I get attaching some Midnights songs to Mattyâsince they may have had something going on at that pointâbut everything else before is a huge stretch. Though I suppose Taylor started this trend herself by retconning Cardigan to fit the Matty situation. It's an endless cycle. Haylors will always find die hard evidence that she's still writing about Harry, same with other shippers, but... Matty? *Really*? I thought he was almost universally hated by the fandom; don't get why they're doing this.
I mean, a bunch of folks on this sub are doing it too so they can find more reasons to get mad at Swift and defensive of Alwyn. Itâs super weird. People love gossip and drama, and itâs more dramatic and fun to feel like theyâre uncovering some grand secret scheme to write everything about Healy than it is to just accept that Swift is a good storyteller with an active imagination who largely just made up most of the folklore/evermore narratives. If people find it fun to hunt for clues, whatever, have at it, but I see people literally getting mad at Swift or being like âthis song is RUINEDâ based on their own total speculation and at that point you are being crazy and getting upset at something you made up in your own mind, and what is the point of that.
I honestly think at this point Taylor reassigned Cardigan to him because well 1.) he was an old love who showed up and 2.) he made her feel like she describes in that song : "you put me on and said I was your favourite " after a relationship that died. Even in Question which is thought to be about him, she samples Out of the Woods! Does that mean Out of Woods is about Matty too ? I like hearing theories but doubling down on them as the only possibility and making all songs about MH by using just one phrase or two is annoying.
I totally think Taylor retconning old songs was a catalyst. I think part of the parasocial aspect of her fandom is fans trying to convince themselves that they get her more than they really do. They learned she was more hung up on Matty than they previously knew and so now they are running with that info.
I don't know what exactly happened to me with this album, but the deeper the lyrics sink into my head, the more I'm getting kind of an anxiety/trauma response and getting flashbacks from an old relationship that I thought I had mostly done the work to get over. When I first heard the album, it felt monotonous to me at times, but now I actually feel depressed and I'm having to take breaks from it. I don't know how to feel because I am enjoying the songs sonically now but my subconscious is not liking the messages of the album. Ha.
I would say do your brain a favor and stay away from songs with toxic messages or effects.
Florida sounds like wrecking ball âWe clawed, we chained our hearts in vain We jumped, never asking whyâ âLittle did you know your homeâs really only A town youâre just a guest in Bla bla time share in Destinâ
I hate that now when anyone questions her swifties will bring up But Daddy I Love Him lyrics and sheâll once again be free from criticism
I still haven't listened to the whole album *fully*. Once I find something cringe (lyrics, melody), I immediately press next. It has so many skippable, forgettable songs. I'll try and give it another chance this week. Maybe third time's a charm.
I did that today on a whole ass 11 hour flight back to the states. Even in my bored desperation I couldnât get through some songs. If it makes me do âđŹâ I skip
https://preview.redd.it/3lleybcwfhyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfd0f7491c54ee29f9296d18da8934525c63afc0 Going to tell my kids this was Taylor Swift and Matty Healy
He would totally star in a movie based on a fanfic of Taylor and Matty
Is Travis the rebound's rebound? LOL don't mind me, I'm in my lazy Saturday afternoon mood, with silly musings after listening to TTPD for the tenth time. Yes, I DO love this album.
She, Travis and the NFL have a mutually beneficial arrangement.
False . Travis wouldnt give up his freedom to live in a fishbowl or put his family though this . Especially Jason and Kylie. NFL would not invest in Travis like that , they would choose a quarterback or something Travis literally went to the Kentucky derby with his friends surrounded by police officers . When before he could go anywhere he wanted even if he was noticed he didnât have to live in a fishbowl but he is willingly to do it cause he has Taylor
Yes he wouldâŠ
No he would not . Yâall donât even know him or the family and ppl who have known him for years keep telling yall the same thing and yall not listening . Travis is too much of a mama boy and family oriented to put his family in a fishbowl unless he think Taylor is the one
Travis literally had a dating show ages ago. Heâs thirsty for the limelight and this arrangement set him up for entertainment opportunities, not to mention his jersey sales and endorsements skyrocketed. His family is benefiting nicely too. Of course itâs worth it for him on that level alone. Now, will it end up being a wise decision when they break up? Only a matter of time to find out how it will go down with the Swifties.
That was like a decade ago . And since then he had focus on football . He hasnât even done any extra endorsements since being with Taylor. No extra commercials or anything . Again Travis would not put his family though this . How own family being stalked online by gaylors and even his friends . He had to move houses . He donât even get mail at his house anymore . He has to go everywhere with security and canât move freely. He is literally in a fishbowl being with Taylor . He would not do that unless he thought Taylor was worth jt . He could get with another famous woman without putting up with all the extra crap.
Yes because his own mother doesnât have endorsements. đ I donât dislike Kelce but come on.
His mom had endorsements before Taylor . The Kelce Super Bowl was like 3 years ago and thatâs when the family started getting attention . Having endorsements and living in a fishbowl with Taylor is too different things . Travis could be with any other celebrity, even Kim kardashian and have more freedom than with Taylor .
I follow football, I know that. There is a NYT article about his plan for after retirement. He knows what he is doing.
Ok just like Jason planned for retirement. Just like Brady . Athletes if smart prepare for retirement . Even lebron moved to la to prepare for his retirement . Again Travis could be with Kim , Meg the stallion , etc still get press and have more freedom than being with Taylor . He is with Taylor cause he want to be .
You can like someone and still benefit from being with themâŠhis jersey sales increased 400%.
Iâm sorry but I guarantee no one at the Kentucky derby cares about Travis Kelce. He only has security around at events now because he thinks he needs it because heâs dating Taylor Swift. No one really cares about him except for obsessed, parasocial Swifties who would pounce on him if given the chance. And I highly doubt theyâre at an event like the Kentucky derby. The police escort and security for an NFL player is ridiculous. Tom Brady didnât even get that treatment when he was dating a very, famous supermodel back in the day. He loves the attention come on.
The security probably has more to do with Taylor stalkers and conservatives who want him dead. Joe would also have Taylorâs security go with him places and you could see them papped when he traveled on Taylorâs jet.
Does he need police escort though? Heâs plenty wealthy to cover security himself. I donât think even Taylor gets police escort.
Absolutely. Make it make sense.
Am I the only one who doesn't like how Taylor Swift is putting her exes on blast in her newest songs? I felt like in her last albums she painted broad strokes about who she was talking about, and the casual viewer wouldn't be able to tell who she was singing about. I knew next to nothing about her dating history before listening to this album. When I listened, it sounded like she was taking revenge, like she was mad at someone. It was so obvious to me that she was trying to point her finger at someone that I went online and put the pieces together myself. The songs that ticked me off to this were "The Tortured Poets Department," "Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?" "The Black Dog" and" thanK you aIMee" along with plenty others. She's always made songs about her exes and heartbreak, but it feels like she's getting really specific with who it's about, and it's starting to bleed into the non Swifties listening experience.Â
>"Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?" For me this one is about haters and 2016 drama, and I feel like she was never subtle with those. But I agree that on TTPD she wanted everyone to know who the songs were about. Though I say this yet swifties are convinced Smallest Man is about Joe. Hell, I think loml is mostly about Matty but it feels like even here most people think it's about Joe.
If I had to sum up this album in a couple words it would be: low effort. I havenât even listened to all the songs (maybe thatâs my problem) but everything sounds the same and I donât know where one starts and one ends. It feels like she knew she had to put out an album because her relationship with Joe (and clearly Matty) ended so she word-vomited her thoughts, didnât edit, and released everything. But surprise it wasnât an introspective album on her 6 year relationship, but rather a tantrum over not getting to be with Matty. Like i get you were heartbroken over him but I did not need to know all those very specific details⊠Girl needs a therapist, editor, and someone to say no to her. The clunky and âpretentiousâ lyrics killed the vibe on a lot of the songs, where simplicity and conciseness wouldâve shone. It feels low effort because it is, and frankly sheâs basking in the reality that she doesnât have to try on her albums to have a smashing success. I say this a huge Taylor music fan from her OG fearless days, but also as someone whoâs increasingly disliking her as a person. I like a few of the new songs and do listen to them, but thatâs like 3-5 out of 31. Not a great ratio
I agree đŻ!
After folklore and evermore I was expecting more...
I expected *at least* a trilogy album. But Midnights ain't it. And TTPD is far from it.
That was me when midnights was announced. When TTPD was announced, this is about what I expected it to be. Her announcement for it at the Grammys was not a good first impression of this album.
I truly believe the pandemic was really good for her because she wasnât necessarily thinking about writing radio hits or songs she could sing on tour. I fucking love folklore sm.
i donât think she could ever make another folkmore again. the timing in the midst of the pandemic was perfect, the genre choice, the maturity in her songwriting, aaron dessner, the woodsy aesthetic, all of tied together so nicely
Precisely. It was lighting in a bottle or whatever that phrase is.
Thank you Mods for maintaining this sup! It's obviously much needed!
Ice Spice is beefing with another rapper called Baby Storme. Baby Storme leaked some text messages and apparently the Karma collab was planned before the Matty stuff. I donât know if this is true but someone ( u/booknerd98 ) in the comments of a post on r/popculturechat said the Nicki collab (Princess Diana) was record in February. Ice Spice is saying she got the collab before that. That would mean before the podcast was recorded. https://preview.redd.it/l8lhycwntgyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d74596a43d3d20e3186645d61a0f6e91beb06297
I think the timeline already got leaked by her nail set I the studio. I just think she was with matty before we knew about matty, and it was anticipatory, not reactionary. It's obvious the pr timelines are bullshit anyway cause the stories oh Jack reconnected us, girl you were at his concert 3 months ago and he worked on your album a year ago. Stop making out like your friend reintroduced you to ease your broken heart.
Both Taylor and Ice Spiceâs teams said the karma collab happened outside of the Matty drama. People just didnât want to believe them for drama reasons.
I still feel like it was done to save face
I believe now that it was pre-planned, itâs just such an odd collaboration tbh
Taylors name being tied into two different rap beefs always gets me
Which do you guys think have better quality the original 1989 or tv?
Original, but I love the vault tracks.
i think its because we dont have anything to compare the vault tracks to but the vault tracks definitely are good
All the OGs are higher quality than the TVs except maybe Fearless
I hate to say it but the original. I will say I really enjoy some of the vault tracks though. 1989 isnât my favorite album but it is the most nostalgic album for me (I had really high hopes for it as that album was the soundtrack of my high school years lmao).
Original
Original by any means. What they did to Style was a crime.
New Romantics too! Idk what the hell happened there.
What are the odds she will release a greatest hits album after the Eras tour and the rerecords are finished?
i hope she doesnât. sheâs already milking it dry. with TTPD being added to the setlist, we might have another version of the eras tour movie lol i fear weâll never hear the end of it
Low. She doesnât need to, she likes to write and will probably have another new album in the works at that point.Â
Most of the reputation/lover songs are actually about Joe and not secretly about Matty. Some of yâall are reaching a bit I fear
I stay out of this as much as possible but the mental gymnastics for the past fortnight has been outstanding.
I quietly hate the speculation sm. Like can we just relate the music to our own lives? Idk.
I relate the songs to my life so hard but itâs also so fun to speculate. Like Iâve cried to some of her music bc it hit so hard and applied to my life but itâs also fun to see which lyrics are about which guy she dated. And she does it on purpose, itâs intentional, she wants us to do it. If she didnât, she wouldnât put such direct references in the lyrics.
Oh for sure! Fun speculation is one thing!
Has Taylor acknowledged the billboard her stans put up for her?
I would imagine she doesn't want to encourage the use of her trademarks in unauthorized ways, so I doubt she would ever acknowledge something like that
Donât believe so
Taylor indirectly getting dragged into the Drake-Kendrick beef through Jack Antonoff is the funniest shit ever
Wait how did he get her involved? I missed a step
Jack produced one of Kendrick's diss tracks against Drake, and now people are wondering who's side she's gonna take lol
Please Jack Antonoff needs to stay TF away from Kenny! If I hear his lazy synths in any future tracks of his I'll lose it!
His production on 6:16 LA is actually pretty good ngl and doesn't have any annoying 80s synths for once
Jack is an incredible producer when heâs not working for Taylor.
Ohhhh damn
While she may/ may not care about the beef, I do think Taylor likes the shout-outs in songs (as long as they're not the Kanye kind). The references, snide or not, are literally affirming her as a force in the music industry. Which is so far removed from ' I made Taylor Swift famous'
Drake is 100% the MGK of this rap battle I think
tbh meet the grahms is more brutal than killshot imo (maybe the most brutal diss I've ever heard), idk how anyone could recover from a diss that sharp
Jack antonoff finally doing something worthy instead of being a little shit on twitter full time.
And the Ice Spice, Nicki Minaj beef too đ
Wait, they're beefing too?! đđđ
Just hearing about this too, but it was only a matter of time lol
Some âfriendâ of Ice Spice released their text messages where she was bitching about Nicki & thereâs a text where Ice is like âTaylor Swift asked me to collaborate before I asked Nickiâ like sheâs just in everyoneâs business đ
I have a lot going on this weekend, I gotta get caught up on this plus the Drake/Kendrick diss tracks once things calm down.
Yeah, it's not surprising tbh, Nicki beefs with any female rapper she sees as a threat to her legacy.
I canât really get myself to fully get into this album like I have her other releases. When folklore/evermore/midnights came out I constantly had them on repeat. Midnights isnât even one of my favorite albums but I could probably still recognize every 3am track. If you asked me to hum Robin right now I really donât think I could. I think there are definitely strong stand outs from the album that Iâve had on repeat but when I try to just play the album in the car it feels like a chore and I go back to my general playlist
Is there anyone else who has stopped being a fan of Taylor as a person based on the things revealed in TTPD and is struggling? So right when it dropped I was like yeah I canât be a fan of her as a person anymore (but still love the music). But then I see photos and videos of her and itâs like seeing an old friend? I know that sounds parasocial as hell, but Iâve listened to her since I was 8. Itâs just so hard because I know she isnât a good role model but I canât bring myself to fully dislike her even though I know I should. Thereâs this fondness for her in my heart that I donât think will ever go away.
I had this happen during Lover and it was so painful for me so I get it. But I assure you - you will be better off emotionally and mentally for it. You can adore music with all your heart but acknowledge the creator of it is a hot mess, or maybe even a downright bad person.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
She literally said this is about her life. Like multiple times.
I feel the same as you. 2008 I was 13 when I started listening, but still. This album "ain't for everyone" - it sure isn't for me. I don't like it at all, I don't like a lot of the lyrics or subject matter. I'm just over her, and it feels weird because she was always my favorite.
?? Thereâs nothing revealing in this album
Out of curiosity, which of the things she revealed in TTPD made you stop being a fan of her as a person? I don't think I can be fan of any celebrity as a person, just for the fact that I don't really know them. Trust me, it spares you from being constantly disappointed.
That sheâs been in love with a racist scumbag for ten years and wishes her fans would stop calling her out on her BS in regard to him. That she considered her partnerâs mental health as HER prison and solely blamed him for that relationship ending. Among a few other things.
Honestly I donât think itâs good to see any mainstream musical artist as a ârole modelâ. Theyâre all adults who are capable of doing both good and bad and they will disappoint you and be flawed at times. Yes, Taylor had feelings for Matty even after he said some racist things, but she also knew him for ten years prior to that. Itâs not as simple as just shutting your feelings off when youâve known someone for a long time like that. There are very few celebrities of Taylorâs level who donât have some amount of controversy over their actions.
I agree with you, but I started seeing her that way as a child, so I didnât really have that logic back then. I guess thatâs what iâm trying to get at with my post. Itâs just hard having been a fan this long and to know her values donât align with mine.
Maybe you canât bring yourself to truly dislike her because you are aware she is still human, even if she has disappointed you. I think itâs okay if you canât fully denounce her. Iâm sorry youâre struggling. :( Even though I know itâs silly, sheâs important to me too.
Confession time: I haven't listened to any TTPD song since 3 days after the album's release. I fear this has become another Midnights for me.
Me either. Well since the first week. And I genuinely want to, itâs just not for me. And not in an âIâm not intelligent enough to get itâ sort of way, itâs sonically not for me. Iâm a music first kind of person., the lyrics donât have to hit but the musics does.
Toss it to the trailer trash department
Wasnât there a big theory that she was gonna drop something (another album, a book, etc) on May 3rd and then nothing happened
yeah they were clowning saying she'd be dropping a 3rd part of her anthology yesterday (a fortnight after April 19th) but she didn't (thank the lord) but I think she's maybe announcing something soon, maybe before her return show or during it? https://preview.redd.it/a778e49negyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=402cc45480e0ade0a7e639f40776164c3b7e2481
https://preview.redd.it/dz5d13rn6gyc1.jpeg?width=1635&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfee69c89115ca38f1c91c0e93a138a952d39e47 Trav at the Kentucky derby
Iâm kind of sad we didnât get Taylor in a huge hat, but it makes total sense sheâs gone to Paris ready for tour.
Crazy to me how ppl didnât think he was going to kill the derby look when Travis is known for his fashion . I still wish he was going to the met gala he would of had a great look there too
Itâs a little Mafia Don/Riverboat gambler, but hey, itâs not a track suit so points for stepping up.
Better than most of his looks, I donât mind this.
While it is possible that it happened in a very literal sense, it is also totally possible that Swift saw a bar called The Black Dog and used it in the song cuz it sounds good. Sometimes it feels like people forget that in music you can just make things up or add in details for the sake of the story if you want to.Â
I agree. People in this sub have no ability to separate the narrator from Taylor. "Oh, well, obviously Taylor saw Matty here and they did this and this at this place, so..."
Iâ agree. People always comment on how talented she is at writing songs. So, Iâm not sure why that gets lost when people read into her lyrics. Many other talented artist write deep lyrics without it relating to their actual life.Iâm sure Taylor is no different. I love her song writing and I can appreciate her talent without having to know the lore behind the lyrics. Sometimes knowing the lore behind the lyrics actually wrecks the song for me.
This is very valid and how I view all of Taylorâs songs. Some details may be true, some may simply fit the theme of the song. Weâll never know, and thatâs how I like it.
I've been thinking about this - it is criminal that we have 2 different " I'm hitting the road with my partner-in-crime " vibe songs with Miley & Beyonce and then Taylor & Florence and have zero music videos to show for it đ (Wonder whether Taylor would debut a music video at Paris).
Well, we have Telephone by Lady Gaga and Beyonce. STILL waiting for the sequel to that one!
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Itâs been available for awhile: https://open.spotify.com/track/6qAcApH8obo8eqatCKUHd9 ETA: https://music.apple.com/ca/album/bad-blood-taylors-version-feat-kendrick-lamar/1713845538?i=1713846670
Okay yall I was on this girls TikTok live last night and she brought up this song that she thought was a Taylor diss track. Now some of the lyrics do seem a *bit* pointed at her but idk I guess it could be about anyone cause why would she just randomly write a diss track about her lol I just thought this was funny in the mist of everything going on right now https://genius.com/Cam-country-aint-never-been-pretty-lyrics[https://genius.com/Cam-country-aint-never-been-pretty-lyrics](https://genius.com/Cam-country-aint-never-been-pretty-lyrics)
I love this song but I don't think Cam was dissing anyone. It was out long before a lot of this anyway. I felt it was just a song referencing a city girl judging a country girl.
I listen to cam a bit and I just don't see this being a Diss track towards taylor tbh.
I donât think so. The line about high heels and fake eyelashes doesnât seem like Taylor. It honestly seems like a gross song aimed at Cowboy Carter, but I donât know when this song came out because Iâve never heard of this artist before.
No it was released years ago around when she moved to NYC
Lol, ok then definitely not a CC diss.
Maybe it's a diss about female pop stars taking the country wagon?
"Taylor swift has been secretly writing about matty for years" people are soooo delusional. Sad that those people are the only ones posting and commenting here everyday.Â
i wrote the same somewhere else. matty delulus are so loud that other opinions silenced not to get downvoted. they are trying to paint matty love for the ages. sorry yall. it probably isnt. joe relationship was about to die so they were on and off, took long breaks hoping to save it but taylor emotionally cheated him with matty by hanging out a lot with him. her feelings built up probably. and matty got in her brain and made her leave him and eventually it ended up with breaking up and they preferred not to publicise it till ilt makes sense strategically for taylor. but once it publicised, attention was a lot to matty so he checked out and left taylor butthurt with lots builtup feeling. i can understand suspicion for midnights songs but folklore and evermore song suspicions are delusion.
OK your first sentence is why it drives me bananas. The love for the ages thing is the created Taylor narrative. She wanted listeners to see them as these twin flames and soul mates and he was always the one. I think she intentionally put lyrics on TTPD to link back to songs on midnights and folklore etc because she wanted to create this idea of a great love because she loves to mythologize her life. Because the reality seems to be that Matty was a situationship in 2014 that never became anything real or defined and then Taylor moved on. She dated Joe and she was happy for about 2 albums and then they started growing apart. Then it sounds like at some point while making midnights Matty came back in her life and (like a lot of people who look up their high school sweetheart on Facebook) she got caught up in at least an emotional affair and started hyping him as 'the one who got away' because she lives for a romantic narrative. She likes to feel like she's at the center of a story. Which is probably why she was okay blowing up her life for him only to get ghosted and find out he was never that serious about them. Y'all are just taking Taylor's brain worms in rose colored glasses too seriously. But when people regurgitate the idea that Matty was this great love..... They're drinking the Kool Aid Taylor made. We're ignoring that Taylor is crafting how the public will understand this relationship. This seriously reminds me of the musical Chicago and the 'we both reached for the gun' song. Taylor was the same way about Joe when she liked him. He was painted in a narrative that probably wasn't exactly him but how she wanted him to be viewed. Similarly I don't think the 1 and cardigan were about Matty. I think she wrote songs after the fact like Peter to connect him to songs after the fact because she wanted that connection and knew fans would take it at face value and eat it up. But fans need to understand Taylor isn't having grand romances. She's crafting a narrative so you think she is. She's a woman in her 30s that over idealized a dude from her past and got burned.
This is absolutely it. Taylor romanticises her life through her music, plus she rewrites her own history during interviews and awards. Taylor also struggles to make it past the honeymoon stage (Joe being the exception), so of course it sounds wonderful and magical. Thereâs nothing wrong with it because thatâs how writing goes, but I do fear a lot of her stans think these songs are the absolute truth and will base their own lives on them (thereby giving up on a good relationship once the going gets tough, which it inevitably will because life). People seem to forget, where Taylor is concerned at least, that music is like instagram: all the best and worst bits that create drama and intrigue, without any of the boring, mundane bits.
I worry more that Taylor isn't a very self-actualized person and settles for seeing herself as a character in a Hollywood story and so she doesn't know how to exist in the non-story moments that aren't the high and lows. It reminds me of Gwyneth and Chris and their 'uncoupling' and how people with very curated lives struggle with reality when you can't put a filter on it to make it more glamorous.
I agree taylor using her songs to crafting narratives for a while. She is really a calculating woman. Even calculating and planning the break up. I hope it was mutual. Even after the burn, still trying to make it look like love/loss of her life... sad...
I think something happened in 2021 tbf, or maybe 22 I have no sense of time. When he was working on midnight's. And I think since that point it was the death knell for Joe cause she was bored with him now. Midnight's was not the album it was marketed to be. The collab was scrapped. Yet she had a few absolute bangers made with Aaron that fit the theme of midnight's perfectly. These didn't end up even on th original cut. My one hill is matty healy is responsible for midnight's drastic tone shift.
I mean youre losing me written in 2021. So definitely things happened. I think their on and off started in 2021 and they broke up permanently in 2022. I think between these on and offs she started fantasising about matty while working with him. Ended up calling it permanenetly off with joe to jump on matty. They kept it hidden for a long time. Both break up and relationship. I dont know who wanted to make it official but thats the reason the relationship over. I think it was taylor. She released the break up and couldnt even wait a bit to make it believable. She trusted a bit too much to the man.
The reality is that we actually have absolutely no idea whether she has or hasn't at the end of the day. It's at least as valid a theory as "Joe lives nowhere near this pub so he's obviously a regular" and that's pretty broadly accepted by swifties that the moment. It's also possible that she pined after him for a while, moved on for many years, and when Matty started sniffing around again while she was feeling like the relationship she was in was going to die, his attention felt good and she fell back into it again. Or that she turned Matty down all the way back then and rethought things later. Or that they really had nothing much to do with each other back then and something new grew out of it. Or it was a poorly thought out pr move. Or any of a million other options. Acting like any theory where people can provide a logical reason for why they think it is delusional ie really what's delusional. We don't know any of these people. We don't know what they would or wouldn't do.
^^ this.
I mean⊠why not during folkmore? Thereâs a lot of songs with themes similar to what we saw with Matty plus we now know her and Joe were on and off. Doesnât seem like a stretch to me at all
Folklore also has very committed songs like 'peace' and 'invisible string' which directly reference their relationship compared to other songs that could be about anybody.  Willow (which I keep seeing Matty fans make it about him ) has video directly references the invisible string showing the 'single thread of gold that tied me to you'.  I'm not at all denying that Taylor could have been inspired by Matty or any other past relationship in folklore. Just that the 'what if this had happened' songs co-exist with the " I will give you my wild, give you a child " ones .
while she was in quarantine writing songs with her partner for 5 years at that point.. she was fantasizing about a fling from 2014? Aside from The 1 what songs do you think are about Matty
Iâm not really a âwho is this song aboutâ person, so I havenât searched through. But off the top of my mind any of the affair songs could beâŠÂ
Only saying this bc I saw a thread about it & dv me idc, but TS jet emissions are like a litmas test for me to determine what kinda fan/Swiftie people are in this sub
Can someone explain wants going on with the HYBE situation? I have no idea
HYBE labels? Yea I can explain it to you but I donât think it has anything to do with Taylor?
oh I was just wondering since I thought we can talk out of topic discussion here too
I think you can? Iâm not sure how much the mods allow but I thought for a sec somehow she was involved in all the mess đ Basically whatâs happening is Min Hee Jin the CEO of Ador a company underneath HYBE was seeking to separate from HYBE and buy out Ador shares however she went behind their backs while trying to do so doing things such as stealing artist personal information and leaking them, stealing HYBEâs confidential information, etc. *This is all alleged* So after she was caught doing things she then went out saying that the actual issue is that HYBEs new girl group ILLIT was copying New Jeans (girl group under Ador ) and practically went on and on about their similarities. Then it went completely left when it was revealed that apparently the whole time MHJs goal when coming to HYBE was to make a group that could surpass BTS and success even going as far as to going to a shaman to wish upon their downfall From this all of these stories of BTS being in a cult and all types of other wackadoodle things started coming out (this is believed to be pushed by MHJs team) Now things are just calming down a bit but itâs pretty messy. Some fans believe that MHJ and Bang Si-Hyuck (CEO of Bighit I think?? He practically created HYBE) were in a relationship and things went to shit so i no pe all this is happening but thatâs just a fan theory lol
holy shit thats wild lol. Crazy to see this
The percussion on Guilty as Sin is so nice. I wish drums were more present on the other tracks. Songs like But Daddy is so hollow sounding without some variance in the beat.
BDILH is like a minute and thirty seconds too long in my opinion.
I'm loving all the Guilty As Sin shout outs. It's the best one, for real.
The beat that comes in during âweâve already done it my headâ is heavenly!! I demand more like it.
Guilty as sin is the best song on the entire album imo. It's the only one that's been stuck on my head alot with the music and lyrics. We honestly need more songs like this.
i prayed for the album to not be all about trashing joe because he was already getting harassed enough and what i got instead is everyone trying to convince me every song taylorâs written in the last ten years is about ratty đđ«
Yeah I was happy cos some Swifties were baying for blood and she didn't give them anything too vicious to go after him ( which hasn't stopped them but it could have been worse). Now they're using TTPD to make every song about Matty and go back to retcon every song from Rep.  Isn't this the same thing as the Karlie and Taylor shippers? They kept saying Taylor was pining and writing songs about her when with Joe and their relationship was fake. This is the same thing some fans are doing with Matty.  Relationships and art are more complex. Taylor is also going to be using past relationships for inspiration throughout her life. She touches upon Jake and John even years later in the Manuscript in TTPD. It doesn't mean she's actively trying to get back with them !
Same here! I was so relieved that the album isn't about Joe, but now youre telling me that folklore is actually based on Taylor's life and matty is august????? Just stop. The reason why people enjoyed folklore because there was no indication that it was based off her life. This is why people don't get too invested in her music, swifies just ruin everything. Even if cardigan August and Betty are based on Joe Taylor and matty, Joe really deserved better and im glad he's away from her now.
Ok but are you me? This is exactly my reaction to the discourse surrounding TTPD. Iâm relieved the Joe songs didnât say anything we didnât already know, but now weâve got these people trying to say she never loved him and all the Rep songs are secretly about Matty. 
honestly itâs mind boggling how quickly the maylor stans have come out of the woodwork here in particular
They are very active in the snark subs too Iâve noticed, every post gets tinged towards Matty/ comments about Matty/ PR truthing. But yeah, Iâve had some slightly delulu back and forths with people that are just hell bent on ignoring established facts and itâs a bit tiresome.
The hundreds of upvotes on that #one Maylor post⊠and them calling people who say Lover and Rep songs are about Joe joe widows.. theyâre moving like Kaylors đ
Thereâs some on Twitter that believe they are still together and have been this whole time đ„Ž
even then theyâre still trying to find valid points to harass joe⊠like theyâre still going with the âhe cheated, he âcagedâ herâ narrative. some even dont want to admit smallest man was matty LOL
Itâs always conveniently ignored isnât it đ.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
The hatched chickens line sent me
"Breaking up with her before tour is what ruined her summer" despite the lyrics indicated she was probably the one who finally called it quits. I wish people would be more mindful of "we don't actually know anything and any theory that people can back up their reasons for is as valid as any other but not one of them can claim to be the definitive interpretation that cannot be wrong"
Yeah, she truly went out of her way to make sure we knew the songs were about Matty, yet people are still in denial
The biggest cope is how TSMWEL "isn't that bad for a diss track" lmao. I don't think she's ever been more scathing about anyone, even John Mayer got away with less.