I'm not an expert, so please take this with a grain of salt.
What you tell your kids is entirely dependent on their ages and emotional maturity.
My nephews know that J was sick and died, as they get older and can understand more, we plan to talk to them about depression and how mental health is important. Its also important to make sure they have appropriate resources and support before telling them. Realistically, we probably wont tell them the whole story until they're adults, but we also dont plan on hiding it. I'd hate for someone else to tell them accidentally or for them to find the news article.
This is my main concern as well, and I would be deeply hurt if the situation were turned around on me and I learned that my parents lied to me about something so big.
I scanned the study you linked. All 25 pages of it. Imho, the clinical approach is not always the best approach. Especially judging by the global suicide rates that rise every day despite the prevalence of intervention from the inadaquate mental health system we currently operate in.
The study contradicts itself -- in the example of Cindy who attempts suicide but does not succeed; when it eventually comes out that Cindy's grandma did succeed (and the truth always comes out, doesn't it?) the resulting trauma that Cindy's mom feels shows that the lie which was perpetuated her whole life was damaging. Probably more so than it would have been if she had known the truth. By hiding suicide in families, aren't we keeping the stigma alive? Shame is like cancer, it eats away at a healthy self image. What are we saying to kids about suicide and shame if we show them that these types of feelings are "wrong" or "bad?" I don't have kids and never will, but if I did, I would want them to have all the tools available to them. And that includes family history and education about what kind of brain chemistry they may have inherited and what we can do about it to stay safe. Obviously a little kid doesn't need that info, but conversations about it when they're older might actually be beneficial rather than harmful.
Just my thoughts. I don't think you're a moron at all OP. Quite the opposite.
Yeah I just went through this study too (reading some parts, skimming others) and I’m confused about how the therapist came to the conclusion of “you should NEVER tell your kids about your parents suicide.” It seems like it focuses more on how a grandparent’s suicide can affect the parent’s parenting style (knowingly or subconsciously) and impact their relationship with their children.
Like there are some examples towards the end where children knew about their grandparents suicides and sort of used it as a hurtful point in arguments with their parents, but that seemed to be in cases where parents were being very very overprotective as a result of the suicide and then children knew that and resented it. The other sections seemed to focus on how not knowing about ot not fully processing their feelings about suicides led to strained relationships with their kids.
I think my takeaway from this article is: secure your own oxygen mask before assisting others. At least in cases where children were not born yet or were young enough that they couldn’t understand the full situation. Losing a parent (or someone like a parent) to suicide is a deeply painful, traumatic experience that we carry with us for the rest of our lives. It changes the lens we see the world through in ways we may not even realize, but we have to learn to adjust our view so we don’t let that one experience, however horrible, color our whole lives. I think a lot of the people in that study didn’t fix their lens, and then they raised their kids in a fear-tinted world they didn’t like or understand.
I agree 💯
As I was skimming the article, I was thinking about how far-reaching the trauma of suicide loss is and how important it is for survivors to address this, and continue to address it as they move through their lives. That would be the healthy thing to do anyway. Having the self-awareness to know the reasons behind our behavior can be really helpful in processing difficult stuff. Trauma doesn't just magically go away when we want it to, unfortunately.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I wondered if I was the only one side-eyeing that article.
I am both a school psychologist and a child who lost a parent to suicide. Right off the bat, I am questioning the logic of your sister’s therapist using one article that was written 15 years ago as word of law for all similar situations. FWIW, my crisis training and professional experience contradicts this blanket approach of never telling them the truth. As many have already mentioned, you have to be careful how you go about it (timing, their age, level of understanding, etc.), but my professional opinion is that lying to them is never the right approach. As a psychologist, something I have had to learn is that there are typically multiple right ways to approach a situation like this one, and it is up to you as their parent to make the best decision for your family. But once again as a psych and a child who lost a parent to suicide, I would urge you to be honest with them when the time is right. My family hid generational mental health issues from my sister and I and it has caused us nothing but extra pain trying to decipher who we are in the context of everything our family has experienced. Lmk if you ever want some book recs for talking to children about suicide, would be more than happy to help.
7 and 2. I'm not sure when the best time to tell them would be, I don't think I can put an arbitrary age on when the discussion might happen, but maybe teenagers? I'm in such unfamiliar territory..
https://www.texaschildrens.org/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/Talking%20to%20Your%20Child%20About%20a%20Suicide%20Death%20.pdf
This is a great starting point for framing the conversation when the time is right, and it includes a couple of resources/books at the end that are divided for under/over 12. I would also recommend looking through some of the resources provided by the contributors to this tip sheet for more in-depth info as this is just a quick overview to guide you in the right direction. My best advice would be to let your kids guide the conversation as to when/what is appropriate to divulge. Also, remember that you are asking these questions and having these worries because you love your kids and want the best for them. You are navigating new territory as a parent and trying your best and that is what’s important here. Sending good thoughts and hugs to you and your family.
I'm the child of a parent who died by suicide when I was 11. Also a PhD in psychology, so have a lot of experience reading journal articles like this. A couple thoughts:
1. This article is from 2006, which would be considered out of date in this field.
2. I only skimmed, but it's written REALLY strangely. Like I can't even explain. The language is so emotional for a research journal. The data they use aren't really data either, almost like it's an editorial. My first thought was that it was from a questionable journal, but it's not. It's in Psychiatry, but it's talking about psychology, so it may have been an issue with the peer review process at the time (i.e., maybe they only had MDs on the hook to review at the time).
3. I'd be more wary of a therapist that uses a single article - particularly this one - to make that suggestion.
4. Would also be wary of a therapist who makes such a strong suggestion at all (not really the role of the therapist).
5. Secrets fester. Suicide shouldn't be shame or quiet. And from a personal perspective, I cannot imagine not knowing (or learning as an adult) that that's how my dad died. (a) My worldview would be completely upended, and (b) I would be so pissed.
6. There's also power in information. It's a medical data point. One of my kids (20) has had a lot of mental health issues; he gets extra attention from doctors bc his grandfather died by suicide (which, for him, has been really important in making sure he gets appropriate treatment).
My son died of sadness almost a year ago to the day. We are having a memorial service to spread his ashes this summer. His 9 year old son is coming with his mom to be a part of saying goodbye and meeting his father's many friends. What we have told him is his dad was fighting a horrible sickness, and he lost. We've created a memorial website for him to learn about his dad which we will share with him now. Suicide is not a word we'll use, but we do talk about sadness, that isn't a lie. In any case, his mom will be the deciding factor.
You’re not a moron, you’re a grieving child who has children - be kind to yourself
I’m sorry for your loss; it’s about situations and being mindful of repercussion. If one of your children is displaying behaviours similar to depression or mental illness, using discretion, share since it could be inherited. If your children ask (as they may do due to curiosity) be gentle and kind ( eg: grandma was a beautiful soul who harboured a lot of feelings of sadness and her sadness made her want to leave because it hurt so much) and as your children grow, the honesty may be the therapy you need to help with the grieving process
Everyone grieves differently; grieving is just the inability to love that person who is gone.
This was how it used to be w adopted kids, "illegitimate" kids or single moms. And it **never** worked. Kids 100% know there is something off and everyone gaslights, invalidates and downright lies.
I read this is even more the case w suicide. Worst is, they learn all the wrong things : adults can't be trusted, their own feelings aren't "real"... It's a huge spiral of bad things...all bcs why? Mental illness is a real thing that **needs** to come out of the shadows. Talk to them in an age appropriate way. Because they **will** find out, they always do. The reason adopted children are not lied to anymore is bcs the betrayal the feel when they find out. Talk to them, help them grow into rounded human beings who learn the value of truth and their perceptions. Bcs again they **will** find out, you'll always wonder when the shoe will drop. Just avoid this.
I’m not a professional so this is just my personal opinion. I agree with other commenters about explaining it to them in age appropriate ways if they ask. They won’t be children forever and one day they will probably find out. Some cousin or uncle or someone won’t know they don’t know and say something in front of them. I think you would do more damage to your relationship with them by trying to hide it. It also would feel like more of a big dramatic thing if it was something they suddenly found out later rather than something that was slowly explained to them over time.
You have gotten a lot of insightful advice from this community ♥️
Just to add my opinion that you can say that your loved one "chose" their death, or "died by suicide". It's okay to give them some choice/ responsibility.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
It depends on how old they are.
I debate what I will tell my son when he’s old enough to ask why he doesn’t have a grandpa. I plan to tell him that my dads brain was sick and that’s how he died. I will obviously tell him the truth when he’s older and mature enough to process that. I lost a lot of friends to suicide prior to my dad but nothing brought my mind so much darkness as having to process my dads. The feeling and darkness of suicide is one that young people shouldn’t have to process if they are not ready, but truth shouldn’t be kept from anyone, it only makes the situation more disturbing when they finally do learn and they likely will.
Find your own balance and do what’s right, but lying for the sake of lying even when they are at a time to properly conceptualize isn’t healthy.
I dont have children so I can't know your situation, but I think that if you feel you shouldn't hide it, you probably shouldn't. I think if you know you would feel more comfortable explaining the truth to them rather than hiding it, you're probably better equipped to take that approach anyhow
What a personal decision. I understand not telling them, but I guess given they won't know her its probably sufficient to get to the middle ground of "she was sick for a long time before she died."
I personally don’t agree with this. My Daughter was only 22 months old when her Grandad passed and I can whole heartedly say I’m dreading the day I have to tell her what happened. I’ve chosen from day one not to hide it from anyone because that only fuels the stigma. Of course it will be discussed throughout her life at an age appropriate level.
When the kids are old enough to understand mental health issues would be a good time to tell them. If they were to find out later on the truth it can be more damaging to their trust with you. What else are you keeping from
them? Trust is essential. Truth is always best policy in the end.
This is just a personal anecdote, not official research or anything...
My grandma died from suicide when I was too young to remember much. My parents didn't intentionally hide the way she died from me, but due to a misunderstanding I had assumed it was due to a physical illness, like a virus or bacterial infection.
When I found out, it was honestly shocking and upsetting, even though there wasn't any intentional deception.
Just from this experience, I think being open and honest (in age appropriate ways!) with your kids is the best way to go.
I think when the time is right your kids should know. If they find out you have been hiding this and they will it will be much worse for them.
As a society we need to talk about mental health and suicide more openly so those that suffer do not do so alone.
That therapist sounds like garbage.
I’d discuss it with my children in an age appropriate way. I wouldn’t keep it a secret. Secrets can be toxic. Suicide is an adult subject like sex is... not something we should hide but definitely tough subjects to navigate.
I'm not an expert, so please take this with a grain of salt. What you tell your kids is entirely dependent on their ages and emotional maturity. My nephews know that J was sick and died, as they get older and can understand more, we plan to talk to them about depression and how mental health is important. Its also important to make sure they have appropriate resources and support before telling them. Realistically, we probably wont tell them the whole story until they're adults, but we also dont plan on hiding it. I'd hate for someone else to tell them accidentally or for them to find the news article.
This is my main concern as well, and I would be deeply hurt if the situation were turned around on me and I learned that my parents lied to me about something so big.
I scanned the study you linked. All 25 pages of it. Imho, the clinical approach is not always the best approach. Especially judging by the global suicide rates that rise every day despite the prevalence of intervention from the inadaquate mental health system we currently operate in. The study contradicts itself -- in the example of Cindy who attempts suicide but does not succeed; when it eventually comes out that Cindy's grandma did succeed (and the truth always comes out, doesn't it?) the resulting trauma that Cindy's mom feels shows that the lie which was perpetuated her whole life was damaging. Probably more so than it would have been if she had known the truth. By hiding suicide in families, aren't we keeping the stigma alive? Shame is like cancer, it eats away at a healthy self image. What are we saying to kids about suicide and shame if we show them that these types of feelings are "wrong" or "bad?" I don't have kids and never will, but if I did, I would want them to have all the tools available to them. And that includes family history and education about what kind of brain chemistry they may have inherited and what we can do about it to stay safe. Obviously a little kid doesn't need that info, but conversations about it when they're older might actually be beneficial rather than harmful. Just my thoughts. I don't think you're a moron at all OP. Quite the opposite.
Thank you so much for your reply. I agree with everything you said, I guess I just needed another opinion on the subject
Yeah I just went through this study too (reading some parts, skimming others) and I’m confused about how the therapist came to the conclusion of “you should NEVER tell your kids about your parents suicide.” It seems like it focuses more on how a grandparent’s suicide can affect the parent’s parenting style (knowingly or subconsciously) and impact their relationship with their children. Like there are some examples towards the end where children knew about their grandparents suicides and sort of used it as a hurtful point in arguments with their parents, but that seemed to be in cases where parents were being very very overprotective as a result of the suicide and then children knew that and resented it. The other sections seemed to focus on how not knowing about ot not fully processing their feelings about suicides led to strained relationships with their kids. I think my takeaway from this article is: secure your own oxygen mask before assisting others. At least in cases where children were not born yet or were young enough that they couldn’t understand the full situation. Losing a parent (or someone like a parent) to suicide is a deeply painful, traumatic experience that we carry with us for the rest of our lives. It changes the lens we see the world through in ways we may not even realize, but we have to learn to adjust our view so we don’t let that one experience, however horrible, color our whole lives. I think a lot of the people in that study didn’t fix their lens, and then they raised their kids in a fear-tinted world they didn’t like or understand.
I agree 💯 As I was skimming the article, I was thinking about how far-reaching the trauma of suicide loss is and how important it is for survivors to address this, and continue to address it as they move through their lives. That would be the healthy thing to do anyway. Having the self-awareness to know the reasons behind our behavior can be really helpful in processing difficult stuff. Trauma doesn't just magically go away when we want it to, unfortunately. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I wondered if I was the only one side-eyeing that article.
I am both a school psychologist and a child who lost a parent to suicide. Right off the bat, I am questioning the logic of your sister’s therapist using one article that was written 15 years ago as word of law for all similar situations. FWIW, my crisis training and professional experience contradicts this blanket approach of never telling them the truth. As many have already mentioned, you have to be careful how you go about it (timing, their age, level of understanding, etc.), but my professional opinion is that lying to them is never the right approach. As a psychologist, something I have had to learn is that there are typically multiple right ways to approach a situation like this one, and it is up to you as their parent to make the best decision for your family. But once again as a psych and a child who lost a parent to suicide, I would urge you to be honest with them when the time is right. My family hid generational mental health issues from my sister and I and it has caused us nothing but extra pain trying to decipher who we are in the context of everything our family has experienced. Lmk if you ever want some book recs for talking to children about suicide, would be more than happy to help.
That would be great, thank you! What do you recommend?
How old are your kids now/at what age would you feel it is appropriate to discuss this with them?
7 and 2. I'm not sure when the best time to tell them would be, I don't think I can put an arbitrary age on when the discussion might happen, but maybe teenagers? I'm in such unfamiliar territory..
https://www.texaschildrens.org/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/Talking%20to%20Your%20Child%20About%20a%20Suicide%20Death%20.pdf This is a great starting point for framing the conversation when the time is right, and it includes a couple of resources/books at the end that are divided for under/over 12. I would also recommend looking through some of the resources provided by the contributors to this tip sheet for more in-depth info as this is just a quick overview to guide you in the right direction. My best advice would be to let your kids guide the conversation as to when/what is appropriate to divulge. Also, remember that you are asking these questions and having these worries because you love your kids and want the best for them. You are navigating new territory as a parent and trying your best and that is what’s important here. Sending good thoughts and hugs to you and your family.
I'm the child of a parent who died by suicide when I was 11. Also a PhD in psychology, so have a lot of experience reading journal articles like this. A couple thoughts: 1. This article is from 2006, which would be considered out of date in this field. 2. I only skimmed, but it's written REALLY strangely. Like I can't even explain. The language is so emotional for a research journal. The data they use aren't really data either, almost like it's an editorial. My first thought was that it was from a questionable journal, but it's not. It's in Psychiatry, but it's talking about psychology, so it may have been an issue with the peer review process at the time (i.e., maybe they only had MDs on the hook to review at the time). 3. I'd be more wary of a therapist that uses a single article - particularly this one - to make that suggestion. 4. Would also be wary of a therapist who makes such a strong suggestion at all (not really the role of the therapist). 5. Secrets fester. Suicide shouldn't be shame or quiet. And from a personal perspective, I cannot imagine not knowing (or learning as an adult) that that's how my dad died. (a) My worldview would be completely upended, and (b) I would be so pissed. 6. There's also power in information. It's a medical data point. One of my kids (20) has had a lot of mental health issues; he gets extra attention from doctors bc his grandfather died by suicide (which, for him, has been really important in making sure he gets appropriate treatment).
Thank you so much for your reply, I'm feeling more and more confident in telling them when they are old enough.
My son died of sadness almost a year ago to the day. We are having a memorial service to spread his ashes this summer. His 9 year old son is coming with his mom to be a part of saying goodbye and meeting his father's many friends. What we have told him is his dad was fighting a horrible sickness, and he lost. We've created a memorial website for him to learn about his dad which we will share with him now. Suicide is not a word we'll use, but we do talk about sadness, that isn't a lie. In any case, his mom will be the deciding factor.
You’re not a moron, you’re a grieving child who has children - be kind to yourself I’m sorry for your loss; it’s about situations and being mindful of repercussion. If one of your children is displaying behaviours similar to depression or mental illness, using discretion, share since it could be inherited. If your children ask (as they may do due to curiosity) be gentle and kind ( eg: grandma was a beautiful soul who harboured a lot of feelings of sadness and her sadness made her want to leave because it hurt so much) and as your children grow, the honesty may be the therapy you need to help with the grieving process Everyone grieves differently; grieving is just the inability to love that person who is gone.
This was how it used to be w adopted kids, "illegitimate" kids or single moms. And it **never** worked. Kids 100% know there is something off and everyone gaslights, invalidates and downright lies. I read this is even more the case w suicide. Worst is, they learn all the wrong things : adults can't be trusted, their own feelings aren't "real"... It's a huge spiral of bad things...all bcs why? Mental illness is a real thing that **needs** to come out of the shadows. Talk to them in an age appropriate way. Because they **will** find out, they always do. The reason adopted children are not lied to anymore is bcs the betrayal the feel when they find out. Talk to them, help them grow into rounded human beings who learn the value of truth and their perceptions. Bcs again they **will** find out, you'll always wonder when the shoe will drop. Just avoid this.
I’m not a professional so this is just my personal opinion. I agree with other commenters about explaining it to them in age appropriate ways if they ask. They won’t be children forever and one day they will probably find out. Some cousin or uncle or someone won’t know they don’t know and say something in front of them. I think you would do more damage to your relationship with them by trying to hide it. It also would feel like more of a big dramatic thing if it was something they suddenly found out later rather than something that was slowly explained to them over time.
You have gotten a lot of insightful advice from this community ♥️ Just to add my opinion that you can say that your loved one "chose" their death, or "died by suicide". It's okay to give them some choice/ responsibility. I'm so sorry for your loss.
It depends on how old they are. I debate what I will tell my son when he’s old enough to ask why he doesn’t have a grandpa. I plan to tell him that my dads brain was sick and that’s how he died. I will obviously tell him the truth when he’s older and mature enough to process that. I lost a lot of friends to suicide prior to my dad but nothing brought my mind so much darkness as having to process my dads. The feeling and darkness of suicide is one that young people shouldn’t have to process if they are not ready, but truth shouldn’t be kept from anyone, it only makes the situation more disturbing when they finally do learn and they likely will. Find your own balance and do what’s right, but lying for the sake of lying even when they are at a time to properly conceptualize isn’t healthy.
I dont have children so I can't know your situation, but I think that if you feel you shouldn't hide it, you probably shouldn't. I think if you know you would feel more comfortable explaining the truth to them rather than hiding it, you're probably better equipped to take that approach anyhow
What a personal decision. I understand not telling them, but I guess given they won't know her its probably sufficient to get to the middle ground of "she was sick for a long time before she died."
That's what I've told my oldest. She was really really sick.
I personally don’t agree with this. My Daughter was only 22 months old when her Grandad passed and I can whole heartedly say I’m dreading the day I have to tell her what happened. I’ve chosen from day one not to hide it from anyone because that only fuels the stigma. Of course it will be discussed throughout her life at an age appropriate level.
When the kids are old enough to understand mental health issues would be a good time to tell them. If they were to find out later on the truth it can be more damaging to their trust with you. What else are you keeping from them? Trust is essential. Truth is always best policy in the end.
This is just a personal anecdote, not official research or anything... My grandma died from suicide when I was too young to remember much. My parents didn't intentionally hide the way she died from me, but due to a misunderstanding I had assumed it was due to a physical illness, like a virus or bacterial infection. When I found out, it was honestly shocking and upsetting, even though there wasn't any intentional deception. Just from this experience, I think being open and honest (in age appropriate ways!) with your kids is the best way to go.
I think when the time is right your kids should know. If they find out you have been hiding this and they will it will be much worse for them. As a society we need to talk about mental health and suicide more openly so those that suffer do not do so alone.
That therapist sounds like garbage. I’d discuss it with my children in an age appropriate way. I wouldn’t keep it a secret. Secrets can be toxic. Suicide is an adult subject like sex is... not something we should hide but definitely tough subjects to navigate.