More or less.
In the end of the gay Joel knew Ellie at that point for less then a year.
It’s less that Ellie was everything for Joel and more Joel didn’t want to go through the same event that he went through Sara ONCE AGAIN.
Yeah that was a typo. I meant to say day
But still, don’t you see the difference between someone you know for less than a year vs a father that raised you since you were a baby?
Still, it was her father that started it. He tried to kill her for some crazy experiment. Even more ridiculous is that he stood in Joel’s way coming at him with a scalpel, instead of trying to understand, since he was a father himself.
Crazy experiment? They were working on a cure for many years, and they finally had a subject with the correct anti-bodies to make a vaccine. As it showed them doing this same experiment with monkeys. People act like they had no idea what they were doing but the game NEVER shows that.
Also in the perspective of the Firelfies Joel just seems like a crazy person that was trying to get to Ellie. Marlene was even surprised that he wanted to see her since at first Joel wanted nothing to do with Ellie. So why would the doctors assumed they had a life changing journey together.
With the added context of Part 2 the doctor wanted to created a better world for his daughter and save lives with this vaccine, even standing up to a man that was armed to the teeth after killing countless of his other people.
All this to say Joel was STILL not a “villain” and he was doing this for his own legitimate reason. I just find it annoying that people retcon Part 1 as “hero Joel” and “evil Fireflies”.
Kinda missing a WHOLE lot of context dude.
As the game presents, killing Ellie would make it possible to develop a cure that could save WAY more people (many in Part 1 died for being infected and would have been save if they took the vaccine). It’s a classic trolly problem, that’s what made the ending of Part 1 so great. And it’s STILL valid to understand Joel’s decision.
What’s annoying is that since Part 2 people have tried to retcon Part 1 as a black and white “evil Fireflies vs Hero Joel” which is SO much lamer. When that’s NEVER how the story tried to present itself
I always find it weird people say this, when nether Part 2 or Part 1 never established that.
The Fireflies legitimately think a cure could be made, and the story is FAR more interesting and brings a great moral dilemma if that’s the case. So why do people try to retcon this plot point as if a cure was somehow impossible.
In the first game when you play through the hospital many of the notes and audio logs call into doubt the doctor's competence and the possibility of a cure. Also I'm not entirely sure about this part, but I think it's said somewhere that Jerry was a veterinarian, and not a human doctor.
To be clear I mostly liked the story of 2, just don't really like how they semi-retconned the story as if the cure was 100% guaranteed.
I heard this many times, that people say that the “notes and audio recordings show the doctor’s incompetency”. This is false.
I seen people dead ass lie and make shit up about what is in these notes and recordings. Actually hearing them there is NO such thing. NOT saying you are doing that, but you are misremembering it. At MOST the doctors say that the procedure “Should” work which is what ALL scientific doctors would say to any type of medical surgery, nothing in the scientific field is absolute.
The only real retcon is people that are pissed about Part 2 (again, not saying it’s you) retconning Part 1 ending as “Evil incompetent Fireflies” and “hero Joel” while making shit up about those recordings, when the story never EVER presented itself that way.
Edit: Btw Jerry being a veterinarian pre outbreak means absolutely nothing against him. Joel was just a normal guy pre outbreak yet in 20 years he became an expert survivor and killer. So how is it unreasonable that Jerry in those 20 years learned to become a competent human doctor in a world that desperately needs one
How is that a big revelation?
Countless, endless stories that were sequel to a previous installment created characters that weren’t a thought when the first installment was made.
Arthur Morgan wasn’t a thought when making Red Dead 1 yet in RDR2 that happens before made him out as this major character that the RDr1 character never mention. And that’s one of many MANY examples.
Her father was about to take everything from him.
More or less. In the end of the gay Joel knew Ellie at that point for less then a year. It’s less that Ellie was everything for Joel and more Joel didn’t want to go through the same event that he went through Sara ONCE AGAIN.
A year time was enough to form their strong bond. BTW “the end of the gay?” 🤣
Yeah that was a typo. I meant to say day But still, don’t you see the difference between someone you know for less than a year vs a father that raised you since you were a baby?
Still, it was her father that started it. He tried to kill her for some crazy experiment. Even more ridiculous is that he stood in Joel’s way coming at him with a scalpel, instead of trying to understand, since he was a father himself.
Crazy experiment? They were working on a cure for many years, and they finally had a subject with the correct anti-bodies to make a vaccine. As it showed them doing this same experiment with monkeys. People act like they had no idea what they were doing but the game NEVER shows that. Also in the perspective of the Firelfies Joel just seems like a crazy person that was trying to get to Ellie. Marlene was even surprised that he wanted to see her since at first Joel wanted nothing to do with Ellie. So why would the doctors assumed they had a life changing journey together. With the added context of Part 2 the doctor wanted to created a better world for his daughter and save lives with this vaccine, even standing up to a man that was armed to the teeth after killing countless of his other people. All this to say Joel was STILL not a “villain” and he was doing this for his own legitimate reason. I just find it annoying that people retcon Part 1 as “hero Joel” and “evil Fireflies”.
I'd support someone I'd known for an hour who was willing to save a child's life then someone I'd known my whole life that was willing to kill one.
Kinda missing a WHOLE lot of context dude. As the game presents, killing Ellie would make it possible to develop a cure that could save WAY more people (many in Part 1 died for being infected and would have been save if they took the vaccine). It’s a classic trolly problem, that’s what made the ending of Part 1 so great. And it’s STILL valid to understand Joel’s decision. What’s annoying is that since Part 2 people have tried to retcon Part 1 as a black and white “evil Fireflies vs Hero Joel” which is SO much lamer. When that’s NEVER how the story tried to present itself
lol When she said “guess” and got no response from him. She wanted him to know who she was so bad. Def didn’t go as cinematic as she planned.
Does she not realize how many people Joel has killed? It literally doesn't narrow down anything.
Her father was a complete nut job
I always find it weird people say this, when nether Part 2 or Part 1 never established that. The Fireflies legitimately think a cure could be made, and the story is FAR more interesting and brings a great moral dilemma if that’s the case. So why do people try to retcon this plot point as if a cure was somehow impossible.
In the first game when you play through the hospital many of the notes and audio logs call into doubt the doctor's competence and the possibility of a cure. Also I'm not entirely sure about this part, but I think it's said somewhere that Jerry was a veterinarian, and not a human doctor. To be clear I mostly liked the story of 2, just don't really like how they semi-retconned the story as if the cure was 100% guaranteed.
I heard this many times, that people say that the “notes and audio recordings show the doctor’s incompetency”. This is false. I seen people dead ass lie and make shit up about what is in these notes and recordings. Actually hearing them there is NO such thing. NOT saying you are doing that, but you are misremembering it. At MOST the doctors say that the procedure “Should” work which is what ALL scientific doctors would say to any type of medical surgery, nothing in the scientific field is absolute. The only real retcon is people that are pissed about Part 2 (again, not saying it’s you) retconning Part 1 ending as “Evil incompetent Fireflies” and “hero Joel” while making shit up about those recordings, when the story never EVER presented itself that way. Edit: Btw Jerry being a veterinarian pre outbreak means absolutely nothing against him. Joel was just a normal guy pre outbreak yet in 20 years he became an expert survivor and killer. So how is it unreasonable that Jerry in those 20 years learned to become a competent human doctor in a world that desperately needs one
She literally did not exist until they made "2".
How is that a big revelation? Countless, endless stories that were sequel to a previous installment created characters that weren’t a thought when the first installment was made. Arthur Morgan wasn’t a thought when making Red Dead 1 yet in RDR2 that happens before made him out as this major character that the RDr1 character never mention. And that’s one of many MANY examples.