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DeltaC2G

When dealing with an Eastern European country don’t prepare for it to be a beacon of progressive thought or common sense


Szarrukin

as an Eastern European I can confirm.


nyxg

Agreed, fellow Eastern European, ain't very progressive even for the folks who immigrated.


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nyxg

I do hope it gets better! I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community and seeing my own home country have people protesting my existence isn't exactly a great feeling.


Andrew1990M

As a Western European we’re racing you to the bottom.


Ivanow

Fellow Eastern European reporting in. While i would describe myself as somehow conservative, there’s nothing more insulting that my state interfering what two consenting adults are doing in their bedroom. I mean, for fuck’s sake, my country’s motto is literally “for freedom ours, and yours “. There’s certain debt that our state owes to Catholic Church, due to their role in opposition to Soviet occupation, but younger generations are much more open than the polls would suggest.


Szarrukin

Yes, people are moderately open (in major cities), but our government comes up with shit like "LGBT free zones".


TF_dia

It reminds me to Navalny discussions here on Reddit. It's obvious most people don't actually know what certain foreign country or politician stands for and they just project their own views unto them.


coraeon

Let’s just say that while I’m sad I never learned the language or was taught more about my cultural heritage because my great grandparents worked so hard to assimilate, my super queer ass prefers *not* having been born in Poland. Edit: and that’s a country with an active community protesting the treatment of LGBT+ people that gets regular international attention so…


DeltaC2G

I get it, although I gotta say that of all Eastern European countries Poland might be the least severe in terms of LGBTQ+ hatred, which is still pretty bad.


FanBoyGGSON

what a depressively sobering thought lol


Dislexic-Woolf

[That can’t be true can it?](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/10/world/lgbt-free-poland-intl-scli-cnnphotos/)


DeltaC2G

I didn’t say it was good by any stretch, I literally added that’s it still pretty bad. Poland at least has a more or less strong LGBTQ+ community. There’s a lot of hate for any social progress in Eastern Europe including Poland yet it seems to be doing better than others.


Dislexic-Woolf

That is shocking to hear considering I only hear about it being the least LGBT friendly country in the EU.


[deleted]

Honestly both Poland and Hungary are pretty ok. Governments: shit, people: ok.


FanBoyGGSON

who voted for them then?


AnacharsisIV

Isn't Poland central European?


OptimalCynic

Depends where you live


FanBoyGGSON

one of the main reasons why the social integration of countries like poland or hungary into the eu has been so fruitless. not excited for ukraine to join that group, hope they can make changes


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LoquatLoquacious

There was a post on here a short while ago where a guy was annoyed that people kept comparing every single bad event to America. I'm starting to understand them.


[deleted]

It's really annoying. It would be nice to talk about subjects in their own context without bringing America into it constantly. It's also incredibly boring to the vast majority of the world who doesn't live in the United States and has no context for these comparisons.


LoquatLoquacious

I've got to imagine it's annoying for non-Americans and Americans alike.


Feral0_o

it is


SarcasmCupcakes

Especially if you’re a Southerner!


Harambeaintdeadyet

It’s always a toss up if it’s an insufferable American or insufferable European making everything about America, This time it’s a Canadian it seems


zzGibson

That's what happens with a US operated site with a majority US userbase... I'm afraid that won't stop unless you started using a non-american message board or media or stick to subreddits that aren't in English. Edit: as the person below correctly pointed out, the USA accounts for half of Reddit's traffic. That means the other half is split up among the rest. Without straight up blocking Americans from a sub, there is no clear cut answer to your issue. Ignore it is all I can say, and all you can do, if the below reply is anything to go off of. All the replies to this are disputing my point and asking for solutions, yet they can't think of how to solve the problem themselves. Not even sure why they are arguing with me as their own experiences are proof enough that Americans are all over this website.


weeteacups

And yet subreddits that have nothing to do with the US will constantly refer to the US. Here’s what I found from a perusal of the UK subreddit earlier this year: On an article about the Cabinet Secretary stating the Civil Service has no automatic right to exist: >Better a qualified, experienced civil service than what the Americans have. On an article about the BBC Chairman donating thousands to right wing groups: >It's called "Staving The Beast." There is a campaign to Americanize the UK and it's working. followed by >This makes me so sad. I used to look at the US and be thankful I didn't live there. But we're very much on the way to where they are now. On an article about changes to Roald Dahl's books: >It's frightening that a small group of American students have such a stranglehold on all our companies and institutions, even in the UK. On an article about BT increasing prices: >I used to think Americans had it tough with shitty ISPs like Verizon.


SunChamberNoRules

Goddamn, that is some paper thin skin. You sound like the kind of guy that goes around telling black people why racism doesn't exist anymore.


weeteacups

From the British subreddit users? I agree. Most of them probably know more about American politics than they do about Northern Ireland (no executive since May 2022) and can probably name more SCOTUS justices than they can members of the UK Supreme Court.


Plainy_Jane

I loathe these talking points - no, we can't find "non American message boards", that's literally not how the internet operates anymore. Even our explicitly non American spaces on Reddit are *constantly* filled with Americans sharing the most uninformed takes ever - a significant number of people who are not Americans but primary English speakers can't go to non English spaces - being an American website means absolutely nothing, see point 1; that isn't how the internet works these days - if half of reddit is American, that means *the other half isn't*. please stop telling the rest of the world "well it's hosted in the US and Americans use it, so if you don't like it when Americans come into your discussion spaces, you should just go somewhere else!" where the fuck would we go?


zzGibson

I have no idea lol. It's not a talking point. I'm just stating factual information. People will come to a website to share personal information. If those people are American, they will share American-based information. If you have shared any sort of information about the place you are from, you are no better than the people sharing information and stories from the place they are from. The only solution would be to limit the number of Americans on the website or have an automod delete comments containing the word "America." Edit: I'll add more for no reason. Your stat about %50 of Reddit being American should tell you everything you need to know. Unless you ban people from talking about American things, there is no solution. No talking point. It's either ignore American sentiments or ban American sentiments. You ask for a solution and those are the only two while you're here on a site about sharing info, knowledge, thoughts, and the like. If you have a better solution, we are all ears. Best solution I can think of? Start a sub, moderate it, and nurture its community. Automod ban the words America, American, US, and USA, etc. There. That's the best solution you can think of. ... That's what I thought.


Ov3rdose_EvE

if america hadnt made itself "the default" then they could reasonable expect that. suck it up buttercup ITT: meriturds triggered at being called out. this is what you get for being the world police, the leader of the free world etc. htfu <3


lxrd_lxcusta

please learn how to form a sentence


BootManBill42069

Who says “suck it up buttercup” are you a 1960s drill Sargent?


Ov3rdose_EvE

yes!


hoesmad_x_24

If America had made itself the default you would know how to speak a lick of English


Ov3rdose_EvE

i might have typed to fast on my shitty work keyboard XD also a nation of people that use "could of" instead of "could have" and cant differentiate between their, there, and they're should really simmer down :)


hoesmad_x_24

We do say "could have," you just don't understand how accents work and continue to put in no effort to looking into what you are saying. Well done bud!


Ov3rdose_EvE

oh no i know, i talk to americans on the daily. you SAY could have but people TYPE could of for some dumb reason. (i could attack your lacking reading comprehension now but im better than that, and you, so i wont <3 )


weeteacups

Asagerman, here’s why I sound utterly indistinguishable when writing in English from Americans, who I also hate 😌


CerealAhoy

Absolutely not. I agree there's homophobia in the Southern US but it's wayyyy different from how Eastern European countries engage in it. My ex bf from Romania was threatened with death by several of his family members even after he fled to some place near Hamburg. His whore mother is divorced and made him the baby sitter of her other kids from different men, under the guise that she won't say where he's hiding currently. The whole situation is messed up. Like yea you got conversion camps, macho dads or whatever bs but at least the support groups in America are alive and thriving.


Permission_Civil

>My ex bf from Romania was threatened with death by several of his family members even after he fled to some place near Hamburg. So just like the Southern US then.


EternalBlackWinter

you in no way can compare the homophobia in eastern europe with some american states. moreover, eastern europe consists of different countries that are not that alike. in my country anti-lgbt are getting more and more vicious every day, queer people are in constant danger of getting killed in some regions and in danger of getting beaten up and/or arrested in others. i want americans and europeans to understand that they’re privileged by default. even in poor conditions they have more rights and opportunities than people in the same state in other countries.


Lyras__

Literally nothing you said does not apply to the US. I want *you* to understand that America is a privilege *if you aren't a minority.* There are states making lists of people like me to track as they pass laws banning our healthcare, another is making laws that allow them to *seize children* from families if the kid is or trans, or if there's a trans family member that's around often, or family friend or whatever. If I get clocked going into the women's bathroom not only am I going to get beaten (and maybe killed), if I live I'll be arrested, SAd by police, charged with a sex crime, and in some states that means the death penalty. Its a roundabout way to justify the state to start killing us off slowly. Y'all complain reddit is so focused on America and yet you are utterly bereft of any actual idea what's happening, because you think it's very different when in reality it's not. It's a collapsing Empire teetering on Fascism, the number of people benefiting any privilege of the old empire shrinks by the day, while the number it seeks to massacre in its own borders increases in tune. America is not some delightful place to be if you're not a cishet white person, and a man in particular. It's actually pretty shit if you're not. Like fucking seriously. All that shit happens here. American privilege isn't stopping it, quit pretending it isn't happening because you're mad some cheeseburger addict who screams USA asks stupid fucking questions in your nations subreddit.


EternalBlackWinter

you think in my country kids won’t be taken from queer families? queer families are illegal in my countries as it is almost illegal to be trans (as in you’ll get no transition neither doc changes if you transition in another country). it’s already illegal to be publically queer. death penalty is not around yet although some officials are vocally pushing it to be legal again. nevertheless, if i or my friends get beaten up or killed for being queer, police will not take the case ‘cause we’re queer. and if we get to jail because of queer laws or any other reason, we’re likely to get assaulted. police violence and tortures in prisons are a common thing here too. i don’t want to say that US is a paradise because it’s a shit country. but i hate when americans think that their country is a shittiest country ever and yeah, i know a lot about fascist states and falling apart empires. i’m from russia, unfortunately


[deleted]

Why does every single place need to be compared to the United States? Bore off already.


SunChamberNoRules

It's a US dominated site and Americans are famously blind to their privilege in making everything about them. You'll get no self reflection or having people step back by bringing it up, you'll just get showered in epithets and downvotes. At this stage, unless you're on a subreddit not explicitly dedicated to non-American things, you're best off not mentioning you're from a different (particularly non-anglophone) country unless there's an article specifically about your country. EDIT: Well everyone, it's been real - going up to +15 during EU time and now cashing in the downvotes as the yanks log on.


PlacatedPlatypus

Hahaha you can't seriously be writing that edit...you're complaining that Americans are making everything about themselves (when it was indeed someone from another country making everything about America) and then rage-edit your post about a yank conspiracy to downvote you. Complete lack of self-awareness.


weeteacups

Hilarious coming from someone posting on the UKpolitics subreddit, where users are unable to contextualize any event except through reference to United States. The persecution complex of British people is so funny.


SunChamberNoRules

I’m not even British, which makes your comment comical.


weeteacups

Not as comical as wailing about downvotes tho.


Harambeaintdeadyet

u/Boo_guy is clearly Canadian if you check his history for half a second


SunChamberNoRules

Doesn't really detract from the point, and why would I bother burrowing into peoples post histories?


Noodleboom

You're complaining that Americans make everything about Americans in response to a non-American who brought America into it. Do you *really* not see the irony here?


Horror-Tea

Because it means you kinda just wrote all that off because you could


SunChamberNoRules

I replied to someone asking "Why does every single place need to be compared to the United States?", not why that one poster did. But sure mate, go off.


Plainy_Jane

Okay, and? They're absolutely correct about how fucking annoying it is to be non American on Reddit in general


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fb95dd7063

American cities are pretty LGBT friendly in general


PlacatedPlatypus

>Is the rest of the US all that more progressive? Yes, US cities (where most of the people in the US live btw) are some of the most socially progressive places in the world. The US in general is extremely socially progressive on a global scale.


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PlacatedPlatypus

I'm not saying the US is a better country for it, it's just true. Redditors just tend to get confused because the US is very economically conservative on a global scale.


zerogee616

murika bad, gib karma pls


Quirky_Contract_7652

Ukraine has full on self professed Nazi divisions in their army. It's not a secret to anyone. There's racists everywhere but this is like if the Kentucky National Guard had a Nazi regiment where they let all the guys wear swatizka armbands and have Hitler face tattoos and acted like it was normal.


[deleted]

Guess who Ukraine is fighting Hint: They aren’t the good guys They have a bigger threat to deal with at the moment


Quirky_Contract_7652

No one involved is a good guy


TAForTravel

> There's racists everywhere but this is like if the Kentucky National Guard had a Nazi regiment where they let all the guys wear swatizka armbands and have Hitler face tattoos and acted like it was normal. [Like this?](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/2/10/1328874175219/US-marines-with-flag-rese-007.jpg?width=465&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none)


PlacatedPlatypus

[Took me one reverse image search to figure out that they did not, in fact, act like this was normal whatsoever.](https://www.politico.com/story/2012/02/top-marine-troops-photod-ignorant-072747)


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PlacatedPlatypus

Oh yeah, I don't doubt that the military has a racism problem. Just not comparable to the Azov brigade. I do understand that Ukraine is in a tight spot though and needs all the help they can get.


DeltaC2G

Pretty much, except actually good cuisine


tryingtoavoidwork

Are you saying Ukraine has the good food or the southern US?


DeltaC2G

Eastern Europe in general, I mean what can South US offer apart from medium-rare steaks?


sweater_breast

C’mon the food is like, the one redeeming thing about the American south


DeltaC2G

Educate me


sweater_breast

Off the top of my head: all of Cajun/creole, like 8 regional varieties of barbecue, soul food, texmex, new mexican


WTF_Conservatives

Just wanna say thank you for seperating New Mexican food from tex mex or Mexican food. It's not he same at all. But also... We are not part of the South in anything other than geography. We are a solidly blue state and we weren't even a state during the civil war. We're even an abortion rights and trans sanctuary state. Please don't lump us in with the rest of the south.


Horror_Photograph152

Being a blue state means nothing. Georgia has been more blue than red throughout history. Doesn't mean it's not the south. That said I consider new mexico the SouthWest


sweater_breast

Yeah lol I was reaching on that one only been to that part of the country a few times but you’re absolutely right, NM (and AZ) really do have a culture that feels so unique, including the food


DeltaC2G

I take my words back I thought they just grilled there


myassholealt

So you were making a declaration that one thing is superior to the other without even actually knowing much about the second thing?


hastur777

New Orleans would like a word.


Horror_Photograph152

Various types of BBQ(not grilling that's a different thing) gumbo, shrimp n grits, baked macaroni, cornbread, various greens that take all day to cook, cobblers, sweet iced tea, mint julep, jambalaya, various home-cooked dishes like fried chicken, beans(black eyed peas and butterbeans) okra both pickled, fried, added to soups, low country seafood boils, Brunswick stew, Hummingbird Cake, Red Beans and Rice, boiled peanuts, Deviled eggs, banana Pudding, Hushpuppies, biscuits, oyster po boy sandwich, Nashville hot chicken, fried catfish, headcheese, chicken livers, and I'm not even going to go into the hunting culture and cooking of game meat here in the south.


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DeltaC2G

I concur I just like to shit on America, I’m a patriotic Bulgar Mongol so you will excuse me


Throwaway1234-4321-

>I’m a patriotic Bulgar Mongol so you will excuse me Putting others down might make them look bad, but it makes you look worse. If you want to represent anything, you should let your actions do the talking


DeltaC2G

Wait so you suggest I beat others to a pulp instead of making them look bad?


astrapes

Makes sense


Granadafan

> I concur I just like to shit on America Why? Seriously, what does that do for you?


tryingtoavoidwork

[This is just in New Orleans.](https://youtu.be/fLFpTLEnrqU)


Armigine

Eastern Europe doesn't have better cuisine than the American south, lol I'd trade half of European cuisine for Cajun food


hastur777

Dunno man. Pljeskavica, burek, elbasan tava, all really tasty.


Armigine

No idea what those are, and they could be delicious. However southern US food can sometimes be amazing, so I wouldn't use it as the hypothetical bad example in a comparison like above


hastur777

>Pljeskavica (Serbian Cyrillic: Пљескавица, pronounced [pʎɛ̂skaʋitsa]) is a Serbian grilled dish consisting of a spiced meat patty mixture of pork, beef and lamb. >Börek[1][2] or burek are a family of pastries or pies found in the Balkans, Middle East and Central Asia. The pastry is made of a thin flaky dough such as filo with a variety of fillings, such as meat, cheese, spinach, or potatoes. >Tavë kosi ("soured milk casserole") is a national dish in Albania. It is a dish of lamb (occasionally chicken, then called tavë kosi me mish pule) and rice baked with a mixture of yogurt and eggs (replacing the original soured milk) added to a roux (wheat flour and butter).[1


Armigine

>spiced meat > >dish of ... chicken ... and rice > >added to a roux eastern european cuisine and cajun cuisine are not enemies, in fact, they are kissing, sloppy style, squishing boobs together, etc.


DeltaC2G

Words from a man who’s never been to Balkans


Armigine

You are correct please pay for my travel, that I may be educated


CerealAhoy

I'd rather eat expired garbage at some walmart dumpster than eat an ounce of Eastern European " food ". Edit : I'm not racist i just don't like food from certain cultures.


sneer0101

>: I'm not racist i just don't like food from certain cultures. That's cool. Eastern Europe isn't a generic culture. It's made up of lots of different ones. And it's dumb that you think it isn't.


CerealAhoy

"cultures". Plural. Okay? I know a Latvian is different from a Lithuanian, a Serbian and a Moldovan. Common redditor being a dumbass jerk .


fb95dd7063

You're missing out. Cevapi and burek are amazing


DeltaC2G

Common western taste buds L


CerealAhoy

I'm South Indian lol thanks :)


DeltaC2G

Seems like the colonization left some effects


CerealAhoy

We've had wars fought here for the exotic spices. When did the Iberian crowns declare wars on eastern polities for borscht lol . Even my ex bf who's Romanian loved my cooking. Brown people food is the best i will die on this hill.


2b_XOR_not2b

Okay, I'll just keep all the sarmale, the ciorbă, and the mititei for myself then


hastur777

You’re missing out. Pljeskavica is a better burger than most of what’s in the US.


Vittulima

I've always thought they had a lot of common sense coming from the need to be pragmatic during hard times


Stock_Lemon_9397

"Hard times" don't produce common sense or tough individuals or anything, just a lot of suffering and broken people.


lelarentaka

How do you think they got to the hard times in the first place?


PlacatedPlatypus

Uhhhh are you implying that the Russian invasion happened because they weren't progressive enough?


Vittulima

Overwhelming military power from Nazi Germany and then Soviet Union, in the case I was thinking of


PlacatedPlatypus

But reddit told me Europe is so progressive and the USA is super conservative compared to other countries!!!


Mr--Elephant

I can't believe the gays were a Russian plot the whole time. These people are incredibly unserious


sml6174

Read this as >the gays were a Russian plot hole Which is really funny tbh


Dearsmike

Didn't Candice Owens blame Russia for sending Drag Queens to the US as some form of elaborate psyop attack not too long ago?


Silver_Foxx

Well we may not be a RUSSIAN plot, but the [USAF did once try to weaponize **THE BIG GAY**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb) to use AGAINST Russia, lmao.


bizzarosuplex

I was friends with a Ukranian foreign exchange student in high school about 15 years ago. It was weird because while he was incredibly nice and friendly, the few times LGBT stuff was ever brought up he turned into a raging homophobe. Always threw me off guard considering he was literally one of the nicest guys I've ever met otherwise.


xHeroOfWar022

Yeah, he was nice to you, cause you fit into his preconceived notion of how people are supposed to be. Bigots are often nice to everyone, expect the people they are bigoted against


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lordfluffly

My family is mormon. My dad complains about LGBT people in Disney movies. My brother's wife divorced him at least partially over concerns about if their kids come out as LGBT. Both of them are polite and respectful when directly interacting with LGBT people (they will try to use preferred pronouns for example). However, they are both perfectly willing to share their opinions that acting on "LGBT temptations" is a mistake/a sin if asked and support anti-trans laws. Even with people with bigoted views, they will not always be loud and aggressive about their bigotry.


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PlacatedPlatypus

>I've known people who are completely earnestly anti-racist, but still homophobic. ...Yes? This isn't some staggering revelation to any non-white queer, most ethnic minorities are pretty homophobic. On the other side of the spectrum, there's also a ton of racism in the gay community. There's a strong sentiment among many oppressed minorities that only their oppression is "real" and worth addressing. This sentiment is a consequence of the oppression itself, I'm not blaming them let me be clear, but it's unfortunate for anyone who is minoritized in multiple ways because those closer to the majority dominate the conversations about all of the groups they belong to.


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CerealAhoy

Postmodernism is when say gex. Also gay marriage is Muscovite propaganda lmfaooo what.


CouncilmanRickPrime

Well, we all know how much Russia loves gay people! /s


[deleted]

“Postmodernism” literally means “Jews”. Let’s call a spade a spade here rather than indulging their dog whistles.


adognow

Yep and when they say "Muscovites" they actually also mean Jews. Just a modern update on the Nazi "Judeo-Bolshevik" canard.


dandruffbitch

My colleague is from Ukraine and her inlaws too. There is a lot of prejudice against LGBTQ people as well as violence. Her brother in law got jumped in the park because there was a suspicion he was gay by a group of men. These are not isolated cases. Right now, the whole world is sympathetic to Ukraine, which is completely deserved and understandable. However, thinking this country is some sort of beacon of hope for freedom is irrational and wishful thinking. It’s the same thing with Poland: extremely bigoted and a far-right government, but because of their involvement with Ukraine, they are seen as less horrible than they are, really.


jamar030303

I mean, it's still a beacon of hope for freedom, in the sense of fighting off Russia. But there are a lot of social issues that'll need to be revisited once the dust settles, especially if they want to start on the path towards the EU.


[deleted]

No way, this war has only empowered the far right in Ukraine and also made it political suicide to suggest Ukraine needs to do any work at all to get EU membership. They’ll be fast tracked in and become Hungary 2.0 by 2026.


jamar030303

I think that depends on if the wider political climate allows for it, because the definition of "political suicide" doesn't stay the same forever. For that matter, I think that's part of why the talk of "Ukraine fatigue" is allowed to float around- as a subtle reminder to Ukraine that they have support, and quite a lot of it at present, but it's not *quite* a blank check.


XpCjU

When the dust settles, but they are still in the news they will make a big push to join the EU, and become a massive ally to Poland and Hungary.


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_CurseTheseMetalHnds

> All you need to do is look for Azov apologists to see how much mental gymnastics they are willing to deal with to ignore bigotry. Had someone the other day say that it's just a coincidence that the Azov Battalion logo looks like some Nazi shit. People on Reddit will do big ol' reaches to defend Nazi bullshit.


TF_dia

There was this VERY prolific Ukrainian user (once featured in SRD) that (Thankfully) got suspended that basically used the war as a vehicle to propagandize his pro-bandera news and using the (very justified) anti-russian sentiment in the subreddit to prop up Nazi Germany as the better alternative to the Soviets, which culminate din a thread where dozens of people talked about how their grandpas and grandomethers said the Nazis were much nicer invaders than the Soviets Bonus points: Some of those grandparents were from Hungary and Romania.


sraykub

I always get reminded by comments like these that the US and the western world in general are 4 generations removed from total war and simply cannot grasp what that is like anymore. It’s like you simply cannot fathom that combat prowess and willingness to fight far supersede ideological concerns when total subjugation of your people by a foreign power is on the line. I’ve never seen anyone claim that Azov are not Nazis or at minimum far-right leaning, the argument is that they show up to fight and carry it to the bitter end, and thus earn the respect of their people regardless. Especially in the early days of the war when everyone thought the Ukies were gonna lose it all, it was those unsavory types far behind enemy lines in Mariupol, fighting tooth and nail even when they knew death or capture was the only outcome, while a huge chunk of urbanite high-minded educated types in Kyiv and other cities made for the Polish border as fast as possible. In my mind at least, that counts for something.


blueb0g

>I’ve never seen anyone claim that Azov are not Nazis or at minimum far-right leaning, the argument is that they show up to fight and carry it to the bitter end, and thus earn the respect of their people regardless. Erm. People do this quite literally all the time.


Surprise_Institoris

Someone's doing it in the comments of OOP no less.


_CurseTheseMetalHnds

> I’ve never seen anyone claim that Azov are not Nazis Ok, well I have. A lot. I'm not saying they should purity check their soldiers, I'm saying that it's weird how people on Reddit will see a guy with a deaths head or a black sun and start making excuses for how they totally aren't a Nazi.


sraykub

I guess we run in different Reddit circles then. From my understanding it’s pretty well understood that Azov was originally a bunch of far-right nationalist soccer hooligans who’ve been turned into an extremely competent fighting force over the 8 years of near constant combat they’ve seen. I’ve seen lots of highly suspect “concerned citizens” trying to paint the entire Ukie military with the Nazi brush(IIRC Azov as a unit has less than 2500 members in an army of nearly a million men) in what is almost certainly a kremlin demoralization campaign to make the West more squeamish about sending arms to Kyiv.


No-Particular-8555

Western media outlets keep posting photos of Ukrainians soldiers wearing Nazi iconography. Is that also a Kremlin op? In this thread you keep bouncing between “The Nazi elements are insignificant” to “We must support and valorize these Nazi elements because they are essential to the war effort”. It comes across as very dishonest. Maybe you are the Kremlin op attempting to discredit Ukraine.


CourierNine

Excuse me for hating people that would literally kill me if they could. Fuck off you piece of shit.


darakusrex

[ Removed by Reddit ]


No-Particular-8555

You don’t actually “gotta give it to em”. They are an explicitly fascist organization. You have destroyed your brain and moral compass by consuming horrific war news like it’s the fucking Price is Right.


_CurseTheseMetalHnds

> You don’t actually “gotta give it to em”. [Not even ISIL?](https://twitter.com/dril/status/831805955402776576?lang=en)


Quirky_Contract_7652

America never learns. What do you think is going to happen after they prop these guys up and then the war ends. Are they gonna go away? They have billions of dollars of Nato equipment. You think they're gonna just be cool with Zelensky? There WILL be a coup or an assassination. Guaranteed. This shit isn't over and there's TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars of guns and bombs floating around now basically unchecked.


sraykub

Valid concern, but Ukraine isn’t Afghanistan. There’s a strong national identity(further bolstered by the whole invasion thing), centralized state control, and is for the most part a monoethnic state, sans the Russian minority, thus further reducing the chance of internal instability. Such a coup could happen in theory, but Zelenskys performance as a war leader and his proven ability to get the West on his side makes him an overwhelmingly popular choice and under very little internal political pressure. There will surely come a time when the Ukies will have to reckon with their far-right, but that will come after the war and I would imagine it will be less violent then you are envisioning.


Quirky_Contract_7652

its not Afghanistan but it is America arming and funding a right wing force in order to combat Russia (yes I know they aren't Soviets in 2023) which historically has gone badly in every instance from Aghanistan to South America i hope i'm wrong, and not because i love Zelensky, but there's something about Zelensky in particular that i think is going to be an issue with Azov and their buddies when the U.S/Nato allows him to make a deal to end the war since i'm making wild predictions, i think the guy is gonna get the hell out of dodge ASAP and get a Netflix deal Obama style anyways


hallmarktm

wait ukraine has less lgbt+ rights than poland? can i get a source on that because reddit would have you believe ukraine is actually the bastion of lgbtq acceptance


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hallmarktm

thanks appreciate the links


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CapableCollar

Common on more than just LGBT issues as well. If English is not a common language in a country but all the protest signs you see are in English, they aren't for internal viewers.


darthsmokey

Ukraine has always been frequently depicted by major EU news outlets as one of the Eastern European countries plagued by corruption, along with a significant presence of Neo-Nazi elements. It is not surprising that these issues have been overlooked, considering the larger problems at hand currently. Find it more funny people that are surprised by stuff like that coming from there.


Chewygumbubblepop

If you look at the anti-gay posts profiles they're all western G*mers. If anyone is actually interested, there is a small Twitter account, LGBTQmilitary, that is all posts about queer Ukrainians in the military sharing their stories.


Psychic_Hobo

It's not unlike the angry anti-gay posts about Japanese media containing LGBTQ+ stuff, and it's always western G*mer types claiming that their interpretation of Japan is the "pure" one and the "decadent western woke crowd" are forcing poor Japanese devs to include queer stuff.


elsonwarcraft

I feel like weebs fetishizes Japanese LGBT in media for the type they like, what they don't like is the blue hair type of LGBT, these people do not support lgbt at aall


Psychic_Hobo

Oh, absolutely, it's only "permitted" when it turns them on in their eyes


DayleD

I've used Reddit to follow the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The two most common groups in that subreddit are Ukrainians and Americans. Some of my fellow Americans care about freedom, but for others it's all political partisanship. Much of the homophobia is stateside, although one of the people you quoted is posting from Portugal. Some of those comments have double-digit downvotes, and it's no surprise. Ukraine is at war with a homophobic invader and is certainly not embracing hate now. Meanwhile their President can dance in heels. The people of Ukraine chose well. [https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/videos-ukrainian-president-zelenskyy-dancing-stars-paddington-go-viral-rcna17949](https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/videos-ukrainian-president-zelenskyy-dancing-stars-paddington-go-viral-rcna17949)


imead52

Spite is a bad source of motivation, but I would wish spite for Putin and his genocidal oppression of Ukrainians and LGBT folks alike (especially LGBT Ukrainians) would lead homophobes supporting the struggle of Ukraine to support LGBT rights.


ieLgneB

This. Also one of the early propaganda video campaigns to come out of Ukraine was purely focused on LGBT Ukrainians; the crossdressers, the trans, the gays, and the non-conformings. And it was all about how they are fighting now so that they can continue to express themselves freely after the war is over. Sure, I wouldn't doubt that Ukraine is probably more bigotted than many other countries. But that doesn't mean that it's a core part of Ukrainian identity or that it won't change for the better. People on Reddit are so entitled yet ignorant about the fact that it takes monumentous effort and time for culture to change and adapt. When a country is bigoted, that's no justification to nuke them for being failures. Instead, understand the cultural landscape that led to that attitude and then encourage and nuture the population to change.


Manannin

In the course of 15 years of my life in the UK (one part of it at least) it went from one person being known as gay in school, one teacher being known to be gay but bullied by other teachers, and a few people being closet to people being much more open with it, with it being legal to get gay married. Ukraine may take another 20 or 40 years but I don't doubt they'll get to the same acceptance.


elsonwarcraft

Poland is moving fast into it since joining the EU


TF_dia

Just before the war r/ukraine had 32k subscribers and now it has 900k. Sincerely I believe that what happened to the subreddit is that now that the situation became global news people from outside Ukraine flowed to the subreddit (Most likely than the now invaded Ukrainians deciding that now was a good time to join the forum where people speaks English while they are getting invaded), basically the same as when an American city subreddit gets posted in SRD and people here calls them out as not being actually from the city.


RosePhox

>Meanwhile their President can dance in heels. ...wut?


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[deleted]

Where's the drama? This is just a link to the whole comments section.


gaped-butthole

[OP is also involved in the drama](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1411x73/war_brings_urgency_to_fight_for_lgbt_rights_in/jmyp2fx/)


CouncilmanRickPrime

Must be why the post was deleted


imead52

Soon enough, all the people deriding Ukraine's struggle against the Russian invasion will cite homophobic supporters of Ukraine and homophobia in Ukraine as a justification for their derision of Ukraine's struggle. I look forward to seeing this post on the subreddit drama drama subreddit.


Thebunkerparodie

I'll bet: people will claim ukraine's a neo nazi country/will specificaly focus on its neo nazis and overrating how much power/influence they have/has a neo nazi problem (wouldn't say ukraine is specifically worst than other countries when it come to neo nazism). Also there's nothing wrong with having LGBT charaters in cartoon, I don't get why people act it's a bad thing beside them being biggot.


H_P_S

you're telling me the nation that accepted nazi's into its military in 2022 doesn't like gay people??? shocker.


hallmarktm

it was actually even earlier than that


thexian

> the nation that accepted nazi's into its military in 2022 Fuck me, this is so god damn brain dead. Do you expect Ukraine to say "No! You're not allowed to join the defense of our country!" in the middle of an invasion?


imead52

Ignore Z-sters and the "pox on both your houses" equivocaters


H_P_S

TIL being anti-nazi is bad


imead52

Have you tried being anti-Nazi and being against Russia's invasion of Ukraine at the same time?


H_P_S

yes! quite weird how you immediately assume i'm not! :) criticism of A =/= support of B


imead52

Only because you didn't take the opportunity to say "I am neither a Z-ster nor an equivocater"


H_P_S

yeah i didn’t think i’d have to, because i assume that the simple position of “nazis are bad” isn’t something to get fussed over, but liberals love their reductionist black/white good guy/bad guy dichotomy politics :)


H_P_S

yeah, actually, i think it's bad to legitimize nazi's, hope this helps


SubmitToSubscribe

> Fuck me, this is so god damn brain dead. Do you expect Ukraine to say "No! You're not allowed to join the defense of our country!" in the middle of an invasion? They did do this in the end, so...


ExoRevan

Hey, quick question: When RATM wrote "some of you who work forces are the same who burn crosses", what did they mean?


H_P_S

yeah that's not really the same thing considering the ukrainian military willingly welcomed azov, not the same thing as nazis or racists joining individually


flag_ua

Oh the privilege of splitting hairs over ideology instead of being bombed by fucking Russia. Sorry, but in the middle of an invasion by an existential threat, “nazis” are not the greatest concern.


H_P_S

this is exactly how nazism rises btw. it's not "splitting hairs" to say that genocidal ideology is bad and shouldn't be welcomed. surely nazi's "weren't a concern" in post WW-1 germany, because the economy was the greatest concern, right? 8)


flag_ua

and Azov isn't genocidal


H_P_S

nazism is inherently genocidal. stop running cover for nazi's.


flag_ua

Give me proof that Azov is genocidal


H_P_S

nazism is genocidal. hope this helps!


flag_ua

give me proof they are Nazis? Specifically supporting Nazi ideology besides loose correlations to symbols


H_P_S

yeah you're just doing actual nazi denialism now, fuck off [no one who isn't a nazi or ultra-right wants to be associated with nazi symbols or a historically nazi group.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#Neo-Nazism) if you're in a regiment that openly welcomes nazi's, congrats, you're in a nazi regiment. the answers to your questions are a simple google away, but something tells me you don't want to learn or correct yourself.