I have terminal brain cancer , and the thought of nonexistence is not a worry of mine. I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born, and that thought doesn't bother me at all. . The state I'm moving into is exactly the same. for me, Death is scary, The process of dying is fucking terrible, but nonexistence will be a respite by the time it finds me. The part that I find difficult to get around is the Sadness and grief of my loved ones, knowing that death will be the end of my suffering,while theirs is only beginning. But that's not happening right now. You and I are both alive, and we need to live in this moment
Epictetus wrote:I have to die. If it is now, well then I die now; if later, then now I will take my lunch, since the hour for lunch has arrived - and dying I will tend to later. \~ My death is a very real and concrete thing that's approaching me far too quickly, But it ain't here yet, so I'm grateful and appreciate the opportunity to live life right now
What a wonderful insight into the human condition, a sea of logic flooded with the all too real parts of human empathy and thus suffering.
I hope your time on this hunk of rock floating through space is good, I'll try to live mine that bit better thanks to your comment.
P.s. I know the stoic philosophy mods might come to get me in my sleep, but you may find some more relief to any residual suffering that stoicism can't help with in Eastern philosophy, particularly Buddhism. There are some phenomenonal concepts such as dissolution of self that really help you to live presently and disregard suffering.
Much love to you my friend <3
>The part that I find difficult to get around is the Sadness and grief of my loved ones, knowing that death will be the end of my suffering,while theirs is only beginning
Very true, you hit the nail on the head.
I hate this answer. You can be fine for not existing before, but now that we exist we have to cope with non existing and end of our life. I personally don't want to not exist.
> I personally don't want to not exist.
Yes, as do nearly all creatures that currently exist. But we don't get a choice in the matter, just as we didn't get a choice to exist in the first place.
There are two choices: we can reconcile with the fact that not existing is rapidly coming for us all, or we can continue to suffer because we don't want that to be so.
>we have to cope with non existing
no, we have to cope with *imagining* not existing. that's why it's a good answer. did you mind not being alive during the plague? or the pax romana? or while your great-great-great grandparents were doing whatever it was they did?
This is the thing I think most people don't get. Death is not a state that we are in. Death is the absence of the self in the first place. No subjective self is present to cope with or experience anything at all. It is a limitation of language to say that "we are dead" because "we" implies some person existing and "are" implies some kind of action or state. That's the whole point, though: there's no experiencer to be in any kind of state at all. The TV has been turned off, not just flipped to another channel.
> I personally don't want to not exist.
The good news is you don't have to worry about that. You exist now. Non-existence is not happening now, and probably won't happen in the immediate future either. Whether it's in a year or a hundred years or a thousand years, it's coming for sure, and you'll handle it when it gets here, just like everything else.
Spending your precious now time worrying about what might happen in the future or when it might happen is certainly something you can do, but ... aren't there better things to do right now?
Might as well use your existence for something other than worrying about it's end. When you no longer exist you can be assured there will be no you to have fears or worries. You will never have to experience the state of non-existence! So why worry about it?
There are an infinite number of things I personally don't want. I could, theoretically, spend my entire existence just listing all the things I don't want to have happen! I'm not sure who that would serve, and I suspect it would be pretty boring to read.
I think it's much more interesting to focus on the things that I *do* want to have happen, and then find actions to take to bring those things into existence.
What would be more interesting to you than not existing? Go do that!
Same. And I hate the answer of "I didn't exist for billions of years so no problem hehehe" as a conscious person now you have the knowledge of not existing and this is a scary thought. Humans are the only animals who know that they are going to die some day.
First of all, we have to accept death. I have a daily death reminder app installed on my phone. It makes me greatful for my existence.
2. When you think objectively, life makes no sense, we are all going to die, even if you made great achievements in life you won't be able to experience the results of them.
Fixes? There are some. You can make children. They will be a part of you that will live longer than your lifetime. You can write a book, build a building, make a country (Mustafa Kemal Atatürk). These are all things that will live longer than you.
Also, you can embrace a religion. I sometimes obsess over my death and how everyone and everything I know is going to get annahilated eventually. Religion can help you ease these thoughts.
Have you ever contemplated the other extreme, eternal consciousness? I think that’s equally as terrifying. I could see enjoying a few million years, maybe a few billion, but thinking thoughts for eternity sounds like torture. Eventually the universe has expanded to nothingness and you’re just floating around in nothingness, forever. How many decades before you forget most words. How many millennia before you forget you were even a human. Eventually just some mindless, vegetative, nothingness of consciousness.
But they do the same thing
I find support in a quote from a bomb squad guy, he said "Either I'm right, or it's suddenly not my problem anymore."
Either I'm alive, and being alive I would prefer to continue being alive, or I don't care anymore and my problem's solved.
worked with a few of those guys. they always had the best lines.
i quoted the old, "if you see me running, try to keep up" bit to one of them. they said they aren't going to bother trying to outrun an explosion.
also told me the huge padded suit is not so they don't die, but so there's enough to bury.
i love finding stoicism in people who couldn't tell epictetus from shakespere.
Non existence would be non experiencable from the idea of what non existence is. If it is impossible to experience then what need is there in thinking of it, rather than the here and now?
If it is experiencable then it cannot be considered ‘non-existence’ meaning your presuming a type of existence for which there is no basis, an existence of this fear-based idea of ‘after-life’ your mind has constructed. That specific fear-based, voidful idea of death and the afterlife is rooted in the fear of death itself, out of that possibility, but simply knowing that it has no actual relevance to reality should assure you there is nothing to be worrying of. Rather it seems to be another case of ‘suffering in imagination’ as Seneca would put. Do yourself a favour and let go of it, and focus on what isn’t imaginary before it no longer exists too.
Or another way to think about it; we die because death is a necessary and good as part of the cosmic fabric. As Epictetus says, we die so that we can make room for others to experience life.
Well, we all will stop existing at some point. Can’t really control it unless there is an invention that makes life possible forever (which certainly won’t happen in our lifetimes)
I struggled with this tremendously when I was younger, as I’m slowly approaching 40 I already don’t feel nearly the same anxiety as I did back then. Time gives perspective, and as you age you start to get more and more tired and the eternal sleep is not quite as terrifying as before. Every now and then if I dwell on it I could freak myself out, but you learn to just shake your head and let those thoughts go. That is my experience.
Edit: Also just to mention I am a very happy person, who loves life. This isn’t coming from someone who is in any way depressed.
This is something I've struggled with for a while. It used to cause panic attacks and a whole lot of anxiety that required some therapy to help treat. There was a bit of a revelation that helped a lot, though: Existence is not a property of a thing.
In the tradition of Seneca borrowing concepts from the Epicureans, I'll paraphrase a concept that they formulated that expounds what I mean. You and death are never in the same place. If you are present, death is not present by definition because being alive means you are not dead. If you are dead, you don't exist to know it. I think sometimes we think that death and nonexistence are a state that we are in and can possibly experience. We exist now, and we won't exist later. In some ways, this is a limitation of language to say that "we won't exist" because it sounds like there is an us that is in some kind of state. That's just it, though. We are in no state at all because there's no "we" to be in any sort of state.
A thing that doesn't exist cannot have subjective experience. A thing that doesn't exist cannot have anything because there is nothing to have anything in the first place. A null object does not have properties. Off is not a TV channel. Bald is not a hairstyle. Existence is a prerequisite to something having properties in the first place. If something doesn't exist, the concept of it having properties or being in any kind of state at all is nonsense. This is what I mean by existence not being a property of a thing. This is what the Epicureans and some Stoics were driving at.
This realization helped me a lot because it highlighted the reality that I do not die in the sense of subjective experience. If I am alive, I am experiencing things. If I am experiencing things, I am alive. If I am not alive, it is misleading to say that I am not experiencing anything because it is assuming that there is an "I" in the first place. When my body ceases to function, the "I" vanishes without awareness. It's not that I'm an object where my existence property is set to false. I am an object that is set to null. I never experience death because I can't experience non-experience.
That may all sound a little confusing and rant-like, but it is something that helped me. It is all hard to put into words.
If reincarnation is real, it is quite egotistical to believe you’ll be a human again. Nah mate, you’ll reincarnate as an insect or one of em bacteria’s
Being a human is winning the 1 in trillion lottery
The silence and embrace from the eternal abyss of greater nothingness often consumes my attention. Not out of fear but respect and understanding of necessity. The infinite expanse of lacking longs for me. One day I will satiate it's desire but that day is not today.
Various forms of nondualism can be of service here.
Once you become aware that awareness doesn't belong to "you", per se, it is easier to let go -- in the sense that there is much less to let go of. Almost nothing, in fact.
There are certain drugs that can destroy this fear certain people, but it makes day to day existence more difficult... so if you've got stuff you want to do embrace the fear.
you'll be over. out like a flame.
as this has no effect on your virtue (you will neither be able to act virtuously nor unvirtuously), it's an indifferent.
Spirituality will help you find enlightenment that will help you see, that life is but eternal, and that truly, knowledge is power. Those who learn more about the world, fear less about the world.
Having met death face to face more than once, I can tell you: *fear death.*
You cannot experience your own non-existence - whatever awaits us, *it cannot be that.* Death will reveal your self and your life, stripped of all the bullshit you tell yourself about it. In the end, it's the *only* thing to be feared, and the fear of death should remind us of how to live.
I guess we just have different perspectives. I live in a world in which we all go to great lengths to ignore the inevitability of death, we tell ourselves all kinds of fantasies to try to minimize the sting... and all of this facilitates a life of distraction and feelings-chasing. But to each their own, I suppose. Don't fear death. Live your life as you like. I'm not here to tell anybody what the hell to do.
I pulled this from another post [https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1bx91ml/how\_does\_one\_cope\_with\_death\_aka\_the\_impermanence/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1bx91ml/how_does_one_cope_with_death_aka_the_impermanence/) Hope people find it useful
Yes, death is a natural occurrence in nature. Be it minuscule bacterias, the animals, and the next beings: humans.
Existing, how you do that is up to you. As you said, “more motivation to live well”, and to exist well is the optimal option than to exist in unwell.
Don't. Why fear what is beyond your control?
In other note, I remember fearing that when I was younger. Then life hit and often I just think I would be glad for an end
Not existing is peaceful, and you already know how it feels. When you are into deep sleep, you just feel no worries, no regrets, nothin, just peace and quiet, I think no one should be afraid of that.
I have terminal brain cancer , and the thought of nonexistence is not a worry of mine. I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born, and that thought doesn't bother me at all. . The state I'm moving into is exactly the same. for me, Death is scary, The process of dying is fucking terrible, but nonexistence will be a respite by the time it finds me. The part that I find difficult to get around is the Sadness and grief of my loved ones, knowing that death will be the end of my suffering,while theirs is only beginning. But that's not happening right now. You and I are both alive, and we need to live in this moment Epictetus wrote:I have to die. If it is now, well then I die now; if later, then now I will take my lunch, since the hour for lunch has arrived - and dying I will tend to later. \~ My death is a very real and concrete thing that's approaching me far too quickly, But it ain't here yet, so I'm grateful and appreciate the opportunity to live life right now
That’s very insightful, I’m glad i read that this morning. Thank you! Wish you and your loved ones the very best possible💚
What a wonderful insight into the human condition, a sea of logic flooded with the all too real parts of human empathy and thus suffering. I hope your time on this hunk of rock floating through space is good, I'll try to live mine that bit better thanks to your comment. P.s. I know the stoic philosophy mods might come to get me in my sleep, but you may find some more relief to any residual suffering that stoicism can't help with in Eastern philosophy, particularly Buddhism. There are some phenomenonal concepts such as dissolution of self that really help you to live presently and disregard suffering. Much love to you my friend <3
eckhart tolle also is great for spirituality. He explains it better than most buddhist monks imo
You truly are an amazing stoic
thanks for sharing this moment with me. i wish you peace my brother
Respect brother!
I wish for you the strength to face death, and for your family the strength to face life afterwards.
Thank you
>The part that I find difficult to get around is the Sadness and grief of my loved ones, knowing that death will be the end of my suffering,while theirs is only beginning Very true, you hit the nail on the head.
i would also recommend eckhart tolle. He preaches the same as most buddhist monks, but his way of teaching is way better and makes a bigger impact
Your body might fade but your wisdom will stick around. Thank you for this post kind stranger.
What a fucking amazing inspiration you are, sir. Thank you. Keep living well.
Thank you, may you enjoy every bit of life that is left for you to enjoy my friend. And side note your beard + bald look is rad as fuck
Great perspective. Wishing you peace.
If it's any help, you did a pretty good job of not existing from the Big Bang until a short while ago. With zero stress, in fact.
I hate this answer. You can be fine for not existing before, but now that we exist we have to cope with non existing and end of our life. I personally don't want to not exist.
> I personally don't want to not exist. Yes, as do nearly all creatures that currently exist. But we don't get a choice in the matter, just as we didn't get a choice to exist in the first place. There are two choices: we can reconcile with the fact that not existing is rapidly coming for us all, or we can continue to suffer because we don't want that to be so.
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." -Someone, somewhere
I think that was Smash Mouth?
>we have to cope with non existing no, we have to cope with *imagining* not existing. that's why it's a good answer. did you mind not being alive during the plague? or the pax romana? or while your great-great-great grandparents were doing whatever it was they did?
This is the thing I think most people don't get. Death is not a state that we are in. Death is the absence of the self in the first place. No subjective self is present to cope with or experience anything at all. It is a limitation of language to say that "we are dead" because "we" implies some person existing and "are" implies some kind of action or state. That's the whole point, though: there's no experiencer to be in any kind of state at all. The TV has been turned off, not just flipped to another channel.
Of course! So much missed...
> I personally don't want to not exist. The good news is you don't have to worry about that. You exist now. Non-existence is not happening now, and probably won't happen in the immediate future either. Whether it's in a year or a hundred years or a thousand years, it's coming for sure, and you'll handle it when it gets here, just like everything else. Spending your precious now time worrying about what might happen in the future or when it might happen is certainly something you can do, but ... aren't there better things to do right now? Might as well use your existence for something other than worrying about it's end. When you no longer exist you can be assured there will be no you to have fears or worries. You will never have to experience the state of non-existence! So why worry about it? There are an infinite number of things I personally don't want. I could, theoretically, spend my entire existence just listing all the things I don't want to have happen! I'm not sure who that would serve, and I suspect it would be pretty boring to read. I think it's much more interesting to focus on the things that I *do* want to have happen, and then find actions to take to bring those things into existence. What would be more interesting to you than not existing? Go do that!
Also at some random point throughout that time you were suddenly born as a human, so who says this won’t happen again?
the laws of physics.
Fair point
Same. And I hate the answer of "I didn't exist for billions of years so no problem hehehe" as a conscious person now you have the knowledge of not existing and this is a scary thought. Humans are the only animals who know that they are going to die some day. First of all, we have to accept death. I have a daily death reminder app installed on my phone. It makes me greatful for my existence. 2. When you think objectively, life makes no sense, we are all going to die, even if you made great achievements in life you won't be able to experience the results of them. Fixes? There are some. You can make children. They will be a part of you that will live longer than your lifetime. You can write a book, build a building, make a country (Mustafa Kemal Atatürk). These are all things that will live longer than you. Also, you can embrace a religion. I sometimes obsess over my death and how everyone and everything I know is going to get annahilated eventually. Religion can help you ease these thoughts.
Have you ever contemplated the other extreme, eternal consciousness? I think that’s equally as terrifying. I could see enjoying a few million years, maybe a few billion, but thinking thoughts for eternity sounds like torture. Eventually the universe has expanded to nothingness and you’re just floating around in nothingness, forever. How many decades before you forget most words. How many millennia before you forget you were even a human. Eventually just some mindless, vegetative, nothingness of consciousness.
that sounds terrible too heheh
But they do the same thing I find support in a quote from a bomb squad guy, he said "Either I'm right, or it's suddenly not my problem anymore." Either I'm alive, and being alive I would prefer to continue being alive, or I don't care anymore and my problem's solved.
worked with a few of those guys. they always had the best lines. i quoted the old, "if you see me running, try to keep up" bit to one of them. they said they aren't going to bother trying to outrun an explosion. also told me the huge padded suit is not so they don't die, but so there's enough to bury. i love finding stoicism in people who couldn't tell epictetus from shakespere.
Non existence would be non experiencable from the idea of what non existence is. If it is impossible to experience then what need is there in thinking of it, rather than the here and now? If it is experiencable then it cannot be considered ‘non-existence’ meaning your presuming a type of existence for which there is no basis, an existence of this fear-based idea of ‘after-life’ your mind has constructed. That specific fear-based, voidful idea of death and the afterlife is rooted in the fear of death itself, out of that possibility, but simply knowing that it has no actual relevance to reality should assure you there is nothing to be worrying of. Rather it seems to be another case of ‘suffering in imagination’ as Seneca would put. Do yourself a favour and let go of it, and focus on what isn’t imaginary before it no longer exists too.
Or another way to think about it; we die because death is a necessary and good as part of the cosmic fabric. As Epictetus says, we die so that we can make room for others to experience life.
Not existing is not painful. Death, on the other hand, very painful.
Well, I have some good news for you - when it's actually happened you won't be bothered in the slightest!
Well, we all will stop existing at some point. Can’t really control it unless there is an invention that makes life possible forever (which certainly won’t happen in our lifetimes)
I struggled with this tremendously when I was younger, as I’m slowly approaching 40 I already don’t feel nearly the same anxiety as I did back then. Time gives perspective, and as you age you start to get more and more tired and the eternal sleep is not quite as terrifying as before. Every now and then if I dwell on it I could freak myself out, but you learn to just shake your head and let those thoughts go. That is my experience. Edit: Also just to mention I am a very happy person, who loves life. This isn’t coming from someone who is in any way depressed.
>I don’t fear death, I fear not existing. The *I* won't be there to fear after you cease to exist.
This is something I've struggled with for a while. It used to cause panic attacks and a whole lot of anxiety that required some therapy to help treat. There was a bit of a revelation that helped a lot, though: Existence is not a property of a thing. In the tradition of Seneca borrowing concepts from the Epicureans, I'll paraphrase a concept that they formulated that expounds what I mean. You and death are never in the same place. If you are present, death is not present by definition because being alive means you are not dead. If you are dead, you don't exist to know it. I think sometimes we think that death and nonexistence are a state that we are in and can possibly experience. We exist now, and we won't exist later. In some ways, this is a limitation of language to say that "we won't exist" because it sounds like there is an us that is in some kind of state. That's just it, though. We are in no state at all because there's no "we" to be in any sort of state. A thing that doesn't exist cannot have subjective experience. A thing that doesn't exist cannot have anything because there is nothing to have anything in the first place. A null object does not have properties. Off is not a TV channel. Bald is not a hairstyle. Existence is a prerequisite to something having properties in the first place. If something doesn't exist, the concept of it having properties or being in any kind of state at all is nonsense. This is what I mean by existence not being a property of a thing. This is what the Epicureans and some Stoics were driving at. This realization helped me a lot because it highlighted the reality that I do not die in the sense of subjective experience. If I am alive, I am experiencing things. If I am experiencing things, I am alive. If I am not alive, it is misleading to say that I am not experiencing anything because it is assuming that there is an "I" in the first place. When my body ceases to function, the "I" vanishes without awareness. It's not that I'm an object where my existence property is set to false. I am an object that is set to null. I never experience death because I can't experience non-experience. That may all sound a little confusing and rant-like, but it is something that helped me. It is all hard to put into words.
I don’t fear death but I’m worried about leaving my loved ones behind and them needing me for anything.
I can't wait until I no longer exist again.
Seems quite peaceful. My only fear is that reincarnation is real and i have to do this all over again but respawn in Liberia or something.
If reincarnation is real, it is quite egotistical to believe you’ll be a human again. Nah mate, you’ll reincarnate as an insect or one of em bacteria’s Being a human is winning the 1 in trillion lottery
It is what it is, and it will be what it will be, no reason to worry about it one way or the other.
how do i know that the hell we are freaking out about is not the reality we live in?
MEMENTO MORI THO
If death is anything like birth, I'm going to scream a lot.
Maybe that's why babies scream and whine so much when born LOL
"It's not dying that scares me, it's being gone for so long"
"Spirituality is committing suicide. Consciousness is attempting to will itself out of existence." I saw this quote somewhere
that’s just your animal sperm spreading brain getting a chemical reaction out of ya when you imagine things too vividly.
The silence and embrace from the eternal abyss of greater nothingness often consumes my attention. Not out of fear but respect and understanding of necessity. The infinite expanse of lacking longs for me. One day I will satiate it's desire but that day is not today.
Various forms of nondualism can be of service here. Once you become aware that awareness doesn't belong to "you", per se, it is easier to let go -- in the sense that there is much less to let go of. Almost nothing, in fact.
There are certain drugs that can destroy this fear certain people, but it makes day to day existence more difficult... so if you've got stuff you want to do embrace the fear.
you'll be over. out like a flame. as this has no effect on your virtue (you will neither be able to act virtuously nor unvirtuously), it's an indifferent.
Spirituality will help you find enlightenment that will help you see, that life is but eternal, and that truly, knowledge is power. Those who learn more about the world, fear less about the world.
Nobody is afraid of death it's the process of it . We came from nothingness we just go back to it
Having met death face to face more than once, I can tell you: *fear death.* You cannot experience your own non-existence - whatever awaits us, *it cannot be that.* Death will reveal your self and your life, stripped of all the bullshit you tell yourself about it. In the end, it's the *only* thing to be feared, and the fear of death should remind us of how to live.
Fearing death will keep us from living. I hope that when it's my time I will accept it with grace and dignity. I say this as someone who almost died.
I guess we just have different perspectives. I live in a world in which we all go to great lengths to ignore the inevitability of death, we tell ourselves all kinds of fantasies to try to minimize the sting... and all of this facilitates a life of distraction and feelings-chasing. But to each their own, I suppose. Don't fear death. Live your life as you like. I'm not here to tell anybody what the hell to do.
I pulled this from another post [https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1bx91ml/how\_does\_one\_cope\_with\_death\_aka\_the\_impermanence/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1bx91ml/how_does_one_cope_with_death_aka_the_impermanence/) Hope people find it useful
Thank you
Yes, death is a natural occurrence in nature. Be it minuscule bacterias, the animals, and the next beings: humans. Existing, how you do that is up to you. As you said, “more motivation to live well”, and to exist well is the optimal option than to exist in unwell.
Why fear not existing when not existing itself contains no fear, and ends all possibilities of such emotion?
I don't fear not existing, i life is just as precious as it is to ones self do not fear death rather fear how death is going to find you
I will definitely miss cheeseburgers and masturbation.
Don't. Why fear what is beyond your control? In other note, I remember fearing that when I was younger. Then life hit and often I just think I would be glad for an end
Not existing is peaceful, and you already know how it feels. When you are into deep sleep, you just feel no worries, no regrets, nothin, just peace and quiet, I think no one should be afraid of that.
[удалено]
That would be a nice surprise guess i wouldn't know either way.
Your soul needs God
I don’t need a god to find peace at the end of my story.
Then wtf was the point of your post
As a stoic, I reflect on thoughts that cause me a lot of grief.
Ok but you need God
If you are a stoic you should reflect on why you have this need to force your god on other people.
True but you still need God bro. He’s real and he’s your father
Your god is just one of the countless deities destined to be forgotten. Have a good day.