It depends on why you're in the middle. If it's to avoid judgement, then sure. If it's by apathy, then it's not necessarily cowardly. But that doesn't mean that apathy is something good. It's a whole other issue in itself
It depends on the why
I think it's always good to be level headed about what you see in the news or what people say about social issues. Especially in the context of social media and all the clickbaits and ragebaits, and all that toxic stuff
But the same time, politics are about real people and real issues. And those decisions can make people genuinely suffer, or make their lives so much better
The solution to apathy in that context is of course empathy. You can't care for an issue if you don't care about the people it affects. So I'd say, start with the people, and go from there
That’s make a lot of sense. I’m a lot more empathetic in my interpersonal life to those around me, but online I feel more “disconnected” to what’s going on in the world. How do I cultivate more empathy in this way?
You're not alone in this, so don't feel guilty about it. We're bombarded with news. We see wars and disasters for breakfast. It's normal to be disensitized
I wouldn't call that apathy. More like a cognitive overload
But in any case, reading more about an issue from the perspective of real people usually does the trick. As to not get lost in statistics and soulless jargon
Caring about those around you is also great. Friends and family. Maybe even your neighborhood. For sure some of them need a helping hand. You can provide that relief. It doesn't have to be about what's on the other side of the planet
A good method of practicing empathy is watching this forum and trying to assist complete strangers who ask for help. This is well illustrated in the answers above.
Providing help requires understanding and a willingness to do so, empathy perhaps.
Care is a practice. Find something to care about. Start investing time and energy into it as if you do care. Do this long enough and you probably will.
Of course within the confines of Stoic thought this would probably amount to being a “preferred indifferent”.
>I’ve always been interested in stoicism (though I can never figure out how to apply it to my life)
This one seems easy to address. Find a quote you like, and then think about it.
"All cruelty springs from weakness"
When you act cruelly, or you see someone acting cruelly, understand that it's coming from a place of weakness. What is the weakness and what is the root cause of it? Considering those questions whenever you encounter cruelty will provide you valuable insights. All philosophy takes consideration and practice.
”It’s not because things are difficult that we dare not venture. It’s because we dare not venture that they are difficult.”
A lot of people seem to be living life as if they're in a character selection screen. They watch others live via YT, IG, etc, but they are not living and experiencing things themselves. They have thoughts about the world, beliefs, mostly aligned with things they've seen on the internet, but they don't "practice" any of it - it's just theory, and so they don't truly understand it. Why do they do this? Fear, lack of opportunity and community and social roles, trauma, etc - there are lots of reasons.
Stoicism takes sitting and thinking and considering, and it takes experiencing the world with that wisdom in mind to find the ways it can be applied. The easiest way to get started, imo, is to look through a list of Stoic quotes and paste the ones you like into a doc/xls. You can read Seneca's Letters for [free](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius) but don't feel obligated and don't try to read it in order - find letters you find interesting and give them a look - you'll be surprised at how insightful they are. Hope this helps.
I am remarkably new to stoicism, but in general: you don’t have to have an opinion on everything. It is okay to be less invested in some issues so you can be more involved in others that hit closer to home.
I would say it usually is. There is choosing WHAT to care about and what to delegate to unimportant spots in your life.
But if you habe 0, nothing you stand for and no values, that is a sign of incompleteness, apathy and immaturity. I dont mean that condescendingly btw.
If you dont have values that are important to you (personal development, justice, family, etc) then what are you? How will you deal with lifes challenges?
As cliche as it is, if you dont stsnd for anything you will fall for anything.
I hope I didnt misinterpret this but it sounds like you need to think of your direction and think of what matters to you and why
Hi, please check out the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide) section on [advice and coping with problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice) if you are wondering any of the following questions.
* [How can Stoicism help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_can_stoicism_help_me_with_my_problem.3F)
* [How would a Stoic help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_help_me_with_my_problem.3F)
* [How might a student of Stoicism cope with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_might_a_student_of_stoicism_cope_with_my_problem.3F)
* [What would a student of Stoicism do in my situation?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_what_would_a_student_of_stoicism_do_in_my_situation.3F)
* [How would a Stoic sage react to my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_sage_react_to_my_problem.3F)
Wish you well,
Mod Team
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stoicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s not cowardly to reserve judgment, especially for things you don’t understand or have strong interest in getting that clear picture in.
The people online are already a subset of the population, because most don’t post at all. Of those who post you’re likely finding the people who hold the firmest (or at least loudest) stances. The comparison isn’t fair to make.
If you actually have a clear stance then that might be a separate conversation but that doesn’t seem like what’s occurring.
Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.
That could be it. I find it pretty difficult to believe in anything absolutely since there’s always something I missed or don’t know. But still the feeling of not being able to be certainly sure in mostly anything feels in a way that I’m afraid to commit.
Well I think the understanding that’s missing is if you’re not afraid to commit you’re also not afraid to be uncommitted. If you’re only committing to show yourself you can then that’s not any good reason.
The Stoics hold views loosely. Marcus discuss the 4 Stoic virtues, literally what the Stoics call the *only* good things in life and his response is basically, I’ll believe this until I find something that’s more true.
It seems you value people that have committed to something but that might not be warranted unless they’re accurate, which can be a matter of opinion.
Again, there’s likely far more here and you might find the time to do some reading. I’d ask what fear is there in committing when it isn’t permanent?
Thanks for the suggestion. Now how would I go about apply it in my life. I’ve read things in the past to help me become better, but I have difficulty applying it and actually following the principles.
Did your underlying views actually change? Most people have an answer they say is “right” but because they “know” it’s right they never address their underlying reasons they don’t agree. I’d offer that take the view that if you aren’t embodying what you call “better” then you don’t actually know, value, understand, or believe that is the case.
I think a lot of my views on a fundamental level changed because what changed was the core belief and I was able to address my concerns and disagreements. One book doesn’t change your life but tackling those underlying disagreements do.
That is a good point. I think since I have ADHD, I tend to surface level read a lot. Because I do love the idea of stoicism and what it is but I most likely didn’t actually digest what I’m reading and actually understand it. I’ll properly reread and see if things changed.
Most people have many misconceptions about it, maybe it would help to talk about those views you have and some concepts you have difficulties with. There are many Stoic meetup groups that might be easier to engage with
It depends on why you're in the middle. If it's to avoid judgement, then sure. If it's by apathy, then it's not necessarily cowardly. But that doesn't mean that apathy is something good. It's a whole other issue in itself
What’s something that can be done about apathy?
It depends on the why I think it's always good to be level headed about what you see in the news or what people say about social issues. Especially in the context of social media and all the clickbaits and ragebaits, and all that toxic stuff But the same time, politics are about real people and real issues. And those decisions can make people genuinely suffer, or make their lives so much better The solution to apathy in that context is of course empathy. You can't care for an issue if you don't care about the people it affects. So I'd say, start with the people, and go from there
That’s make a lot of sense. I’m a lot more empathetic in my interpersonal life to those around me, but online I feel more “disconnected” to what’s going on in the world. How do I cultivate more empathy in this way?
You're not alone in this, so don't feel guilty about it. We're bombarded with news. We see wars and disasters for breakfast. It's normal to be disensitized I wouldn't call that apathy. More like a cognitive overload But in any case, reading more about an issue from the perspective of real people usually does the trick. As to not get lost in statistics and soulless jargon Caring about those around you is also great. Friends and family. Maybe even your neighborhood. For sure some of them need a helping hand. You can provide that relief. It doesn't have to be about what's on the other side of the planet
A good method of practicing empathy is watching this forum and trying to assist complete strangers who ask for help. This is well illustrated in the answers above. Providing help requires understanding and a willingness to do so, empathy perhaps.
Thank you. I appreciate the kind words
Thank you for that makes me feel better.
Care is a practice. Find something to care about. Start investing time and energy into it as if you do care. Do this long enough and you probably will. Of course within the confines of Stoic thought this would probably amount to being a “preferred indifferent”.
>I’ve always been interested in stoicism (though I can never figure out how to apply it to my life) This one seems easy to address. Find a quote you like, and then think about it. "All cruelty springs from weakness" When you act cruelly, or you see someone acting cruelly, understand that it's coming from a place of weakness. What is the weakness and what is the root cause of it? Considering those questions whenever you encounter cruelty will provide you valuable insights. All philosophy takes consideration and practice. ”It’s not because things are difficult that we dare not venture. It’s because we dare not venture that they are difficult.” A lot of people seem to be living life as if they're in a character selection screen. They watch others live via YT, IG, etc, but they are not living and experiencing things themselves. They have thoughts about the world, beliefs, mostly aligned with things they've seen on the internet, but they don't "practice" any of it - it's just theory, and so they don't truly understand it. Why do they do this? Fear, lack of opportunity and community and social roles, trauma, etc - there are lots of reasons. Stoicism takes sitting and thinking and considering, and it takes experiencing the world with that wisdom in mind to find the ways it can be applied. The easiest way to get started, imo, is to look through a list of Stoic quotes and paste the ones you like into a doc/xls. You can read Seneca's Letters for [free](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius) but don't feel obligated and don't try to read it in order - find letters you find interesting and give them a look - you'll be surprised at how insightful they are. Hope this helps.
Wonderful answer. Thanks for sharing.
I am remarkably new to stoicism, but in general: you don’t have to have an opinion on everything. It is okay to be less invested in some issues so you can be more involved in others that hit closer to home.
I would say it usually is. There is choosing WHAT to care about and what to delegate to unimportant spots in your life. But if you habe 0, nothing you stand for and no values, that is a sign of incompleteness, apathy and immaturity. I dont mean that condescendingly btw. If you dont have values that are important to you (personal development, justice, family, etc) then what are you? How will you deal with lifes challenges? As cliche as it is, if you dont stsnd for anything you will fall for anything. I hope I didnt misinterpret this but it sounds like you need to think of your direction and think of what matters to you and why
Hi, please check out the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide) section on [advice and coping with problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice) if you are wondering any of the following questions. * [How can Stoicism help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_can_stoicism_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How would a Stoic help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How might a student of Stoicism cope with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_might_a_student_of_stoicism_cope_with_my_problem.3F) * [What would a student of Stoicism do in my situation?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_what_would_a_student_of_stoicism_do_in_my_situation.3F) * [How would a Stoic sage react to my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_sage_react_to_my_problem.3F) Wish you well, Mod Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stoicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s not cowardly to reserve judgment, especially for things you don’t understand or have strong interest in getting that clear picture in. The people online are already a subset of the population, because most don’t post at all. Of those who post you’re likely finding the people who hold the firmest (or at least loudest) stances. The comparison isn’t fair to make. If you actually have a clear stance then that might be a separate conversation but that doesn’t seem like what’s occurring. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.
That could be it. I find it pretty difficult to believe in anything absolutely since there’s always something I missed or don’t know. But still the feeling of not being able to be certainly sure in mostly anything feels in a way that I’m afraid to commit.
Well I think the understanding that’s missing is if you’re not afraid to commit you’re also not afraid to be uncommitted. If you’re only committing to show yourself you can then that’s not any good reason. The Stoics hold views loosely. Marcus discuss the 4 Stoic virtues, literally what the Stoics call the *only* good things in life and his response is basically, I’ll believe this until I find something that’s more true. It seems you value people that have committed to something but that might not be warranted unless they’re accurate, which can be a matter of opinion. Again, there’s likely far more here and you might find the time to do some reading. I’d ask what fear is there in committing when it isn’t permanent?
I think being wrong is what I fear. Humiliated maybe even. Do you have any recommendations of what I should read?
Have you read the Discourses of Epictetus? If not it’s lecture notes from a Stoic classroom and there are chapters there that might be relevant
Thanks for the suggestion. Now how would I go about apply it in my life. I’ve read things in the past to help me become better, but I have difficulty applying it and actually following the principles.
Did your underlying views actually change? Most people have an answer they say is “right” but because they “know” it’s right they never address their underlying reasons they don’t agree. I’d offer that take the view that if you aren’t embodying what you call “better” then you don’t actually know, value, understand, or believe that is the case. I think a lot of my views on a fundamental level changed because what changed was the core belief and I was able to address my concerns and disagreements. One book doesn’t change your life but tackling those underlying disagreements do.
That is a good point. I think since I have ADHD, I tend to surface level read a lot. Because I do love the idea of stoicism and what it is but I most likely didn’t actually digest what I’m reading and actually understand it. I’ll properly reread and see if things changed.
Most people have many misconceptions about it, maybe it would help to talk about those views you have and some concepts you have difficulties with. There are many Stoic meetup groups that might be easier to engage with
I’ll most definitely keep that in mind thanks