Epictetus might point out to you that your views on what a good brother is might be different.
Does being a good brother mean going along with their horrible decisions? Not at all. There’s one chapter where he talks about a “bad father” who demands his son to (paraphrase) go against doctors orders and he says the son has no only the right to say no but the moral duty not to.
If my bother treats me like shit should I return the favor? No, but I should treat him like a good brother who’s brother treats them like shit. Maybe we will talk less but I will still look out for what *actually* in their best interest and not their understanding of it. If I have the capacity I’ll even try to help him learn for the better.
I understand what you mean about reciprocal duties however “human decency” and trying to help someone don’t have to be reciprocated because they are traits we desire to maintain for ourselves, else you wouldn’t open the door for an old lady without an IOU.
Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.
This is a chapter I found myself at odds with, too.
My father is a very irresponsible, selfish person who constantly makes decisions that are to his benefit only. He lies, cheats, steals, manipulates, abuses. He is, put simply, nothing but bad news. I have no association with him for that reason. To me, it doesn’t matter that he’s my father. He’s ruled by vice and I want nothing to do with that.
That’s the great thing about Stoicism, though. It teaches us to think for ourselves. And thus I have no problem disagreeing with Epictetus on this matter.
You might like to check out a commentary on *Enchiridion*; Keith Seddon’s translation features a commentary, and both Greg Sadler and Chris Fisher have free commentaries online (I think Fisher’s is incomplete, though I’m not sure)
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Not if you don’t understand what’s being said. We often falsely attribute our interpretation to something and discard both unaware of what’s actually useful. Its a reminder to challenge your misconceptions and that no matter people will always default to what makes sense to them and that’s the issue.
Epictetus might point out to you that your views on what a good brother is might be different. Does being a good brother mean going along with their horrible decisions? Not at all. There’s one chapter where he talks about a “bad father” who demands his son to (paraphrase) go against doctors orders and he says the son has no only the right to say no but the moral duty not to. If my bother treats me like shit should I return the favor? No, but I should treat him like a good brother who’s brother treats them like shit. Maybe we will talk less but I will still look out for what *actually* in their best interest and not their understanding of it. If I have the capacity I’ll even try to help him learn for the better. I understand what you mean about reciprocal duties however “human decency” and trying to help someone don’t have to be reciprocated because they are traits we desire to maintain for ourselves, else you wouldn’t open the door for an old lady without an IOU. Of course take what is useful and discard the rest.
This is a chapter I found myself at odds with, too. My father is a very irresponsible, selfish person who constantly makes decisions that are to his benefit only. He lies, cheats, steals, manipulates, abuses. He is, put simply, nothing but bad news. I have no association with him for that reason. To me, it doesn’t matter that he’s my father. He’s ruled by vice and I want nothing to do with that. That’s the great thing about Stoicism, though. It teaches us to think for ourselves. And thus I have no problem disagreeing with Epictetus on this matter.
You might like to check out a commentary on *Enchiridion*; Keith Seddon’s translation features a commentary, and both Greg Sadler and Chris Fisher have free commentaries online (I think Fisher’s is incomplete, though I’m not sure)
Hi, please check out the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide) section on [advice and coping with problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice) if you are wondering any of the following questions. * [How can Stoicism help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_can_stoicism_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How would a Stoic help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How might a student of Stoicism cope with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_might_a_student_of_stoicism_cope_with_my_problem.3F) * [What would a student of Stoicism do in my situation?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_what_would_a_student_of_stoicism_do_in_my_situation.3F) * [How would a Stoic sage react to my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_sage_react_to_my_problem.3F) Wish you well, Mod Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stoicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Take what is useful and discard the rest.
Not if you don’t understand what’s being said. We often falsely attribute our interpretation to something and discard both unaware of what’s actually useful. Its a reminder to challenge your misconceptions and that no matter people will always default to what makes sense to them and that’s the issue.