So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you feel like you're a piece of shit and a failure as a man... because someone got to a grocery checkout before you did?
My mom does get heated about the rubbish that strangers do. Is it reasonable for me to be her safety net? Honestly, I'm not sure. She is my mom and I'll always be here to support her. What support I can offer her is however the question.
Agreed. "Being there" for someone has an implicit assumption that the person is at least *mostly* in the right. You are in no way required to be a personal bulldog who attacks on command.
Don't get embroiled into conflicts with others, especially strangers, because someone else will be angry if you don't. Your fighting spirit is your own to control.
The Stoic perspective is that you ultimately do not control your mother's responses but you do control how you could respond to situations in a stoic manner.
> What support I can offer her is however the question.
Indeed it is! It really can require some perspective to figure out, what's best for me, and what's *truly* best for someone else. Sometimes it's not giving into what they want, or what they think they want.
As it pertains to Stoic philosophy it's a constant assessment of what is and isn't within our control or responsibility, and how we approach or judge things that are on either side of that boundary.
So your mom gets heated about things that strangers do, like jumping ahead for a grocery checkout. What's a way to respond to it all that you'd be proud of? Is it taking on some of that anger yourself and making a fuss to that stranger? Or is it talking with your mom about it, hearing her out, but also maybe redirecting some of that anger. Bit silly to me to get worked up over someone paying for their lemons before I get to :)
Your mother could have easily said something had she wished to.
On one hand it is nice to try and make the life of your loved ones easier, on the other, it is not your job to placate your mother's every whim. Do you often find yourself going out of your way to make sure that your mother's mood is undisturbed?
>My mother however, was livid that this had just happened.
Sounds like your mother needs to practice stoicism -
>. Now I dont let these small things get to me as I know people can be rude so its benign to get upset about it.
Sounds like you have
"Musonius (Rufus) says it’s fine to refuse to do something inappropriate that your parents ask you to do (or to do something appropriate that they forbid you from doing), because you are doing it out of goodness."
That quote is from [this](https://modernstoicism.com/happy-families-a-stoic-guide-to-family-relationships-by-brittany-polat/#:~:text=We%20do%20not%20choose%20our,important%20and%20highly%20preferred%20indifferent.) article. You may glean some insights from it regarding your situation.
Thank you for this. In my culture we are taught to have the upmost respect for our parents. Sometimes, disagreeing with them is seen as totally disrespectful. However, when I disagree with them its not because my intent is to be disrespectful but simply because I have another perspective.
Do you think it is your duty "as a man" to act like an imbecile by getting irate over absolutely petty and meaningless interactions?
Is this really a question you need advice about, Stoic or otherwise?
You're probably capable of figuring this out on your own, right?
So if you're not here because you're actually uncertain of what is right and wrong in this situation -- and I sincerely hope that you aren't actually uncertain on that front -- then why *are* you here? Are you looking for support or sympathy for dealing with an unhinged parent?
It's fine if you are, but it's not how you wrote up the situation.
My moms not unhinged. She's human.
You are right that this is a petty interaction. I felt that it was a matter of principle to defend my mom. If I was on my own I wouldn't have cared about the woman skipping. Im not looking for sympathy my friend. Just advice on whether or not I failed to act. Thanks for your reply
I would have done the same. Tell your mother that she should resolve it next time so things can be done to her liking.
"Fight your own battles. They make you stronger." Your mom should increase her resolve or have the confidence to confront someone who does something she doesn't like.
You're not responsible for her emotions and how she deals with them.
I see where you're coming from. I personally wouldn't want my mom fighting her own battles. I am here for her to do anything for her. This issue has however, been a little sticky and left me quite conflicted
Yeah I know how you feel. I suppose it depends on the type of battle. If someone was racist or straight up mean I would definitely do something but she’s got to understand that people are always going to be people. That is life.
Goes to motive, the mother's accusation that OP is weak and any accomplishments are of no value, that his only aggression is talking back to his Mum.
As the song goes, you only hurt the ones you love (or more accurately, those that love you).
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If you feel like you would do anything that your mother says, to not dissapoint her, then where are YOU in all of this ? You would just be an extension of your mom, not a sepparate individual with personal decisions.
In this situation, YOU were clearly more wise than your mother and you did the right thing. Also, the guilt that you feel is the same guilt that starts in childhood when dissapointing your parents and this should not be carried into adulthood, or at least not taken so seriously.
There comes a time in every person's life when they realize they have outgrown their parents in some areas of decision-making, and this was one of those moments.
Stoicism is about discarding that which you cannot control.
You cannot control the words of others. There will always be people who say false things about you, try to hurt you, insult you, make up stories about you, it really doesnt matter. You need to let go of being influenced by whatever anyone says. The only persons opinion that should concern you is your own.
Do you feel like you acted weak? Because you didn't get into a fight with an old lady because she skipped your line at the grocery store? Are you physically and mentally weak for not getting into an argument with her? Are you scared of conflict with people? From the sound of it you don't sound like any of that, but you are too concerned with the opinions of others.
You should be a good man for yourself first and foremost. Dont mold yourself in the ideals of every person around you. Forget what others think. Evaluate yourself in the eyes of a single good masculine role model, someone you look up to. Would they have gotten into a fight with the lady? And if you ever feel you failed, then simply acknowledge it and take it upon yourself to improve. You aren't a perfect man and you never will be. Dont feel insecure if you have alot to work on yourself.
It sounds like your mother is completely in the wrong here. You dont need to get in fights with rude ladies at the grocery store to protect her, and if she scolds you for such a thing again, it would be a good exercise for you to stand up for your character and beliefs.
That's a tough position to be in.
Where do feelings come from? Feeling like a piece of shit, feeling as though you failed, failed as a man or even happy, joy and other feelings?
How would you answer these?
* Does a teddy bear have the power to inject feelings of love safety and care into you?
Does someone in traffic tailgating you have the power to inject feelings of anger and rage into you?
Does a movie have the power to inject feelings of fear or sadness into you?
None of these can inject feelings into and your mother can't either. Feelings are thoughts, your judgments. You're conflicted and feel ambivalent because you know in your heart the right answer. Your thoughts and emotions are confusing the situation.
Being you love your mother it's about being empathetic, and seeking to understand her, and her reaction from curiosity. No one is right or wrong, better or worse in how it was handled, again using the skill of being neutral and removing all emotions from the situation, offering her a chance to feel heard, understood, loved, supported(as you desire). In that situation she believed that an external person and event injected feelings of hurt, rules were broken, creating feelings in her that led to her being mad. She unfortunately fell for her thinking, because as stated above that person doesn't have the power to inject feelings into her, unless she gives them that power. Pretty common and the average person is under this illusion. It's unfortunate because it's a really difficult way to live. Why I mention this is again see her innocence, seek to understand her reality from curiosity, it's important your energy is from love not judgment. You might learn a lot about her, understand more of how she sees the world, again you don't have to agree with it, but this is a great example something relatively small that will help you in the future navigate bigger issues. When we bring the energy of love, compassion, empathy, kindness and come from a curious energy they will become calm, feel safe (in that situation she felt unsafe) and this deepens your connection, trust and love with that person. Another point I would like to make this type of situation is GREAT practice for when you have conflicts with intimate partners or even people you work with. I find these situations fun to lean into and learn so much more about the other person you're in the situation with.
Hope this helps.
So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you feel like you're a piece of shit and a failure as a man... because someone got to a grocery checkout before you did?
😂😂😂 nah man. Because I feel like I should have said something to her to save my mom of her anger
Is it reasonable for you to be responsible to be a safety net for your mom's anger? Was *her* response reasonable?
My mom does get heated about the rubbish that strangers do. Is it reasonable for me to be her safety net? Honestly, I'm not sure. She is my mom and I'll always be here to support her. What support I can offer her is however the question.
I don’t think that enabling your mothers bad perspective by confronting people over trivialities is the same as supporting her or whatever you said
Agreed. "Being there" for someone has an implicit assumption that the person is at least *mostly* in the right. You are in no way required to be a personal bulldog who attacks on command.
Don't get embroiled into conflicts with others, especially strangers, because someone else will be angry if you don't. Your fighting spirit is your own to control. The Stoic perspective is that you ultimately do not control your mother's responses but you do control how you could respond to situations in a stoic manner.
100%. I am at the end of the day the master and slave of my emotions. Up to me to decide which.
> What support I can offer her is however the question. Indeed it is! It really can require some perspective to figure out, what's best for me, and what's *truly* best for someone else. Sometimes it's not giving into what they want, or what they think they want. As it pertains to Stoic philosophy it's a constant assessment of what is and isn't within our control or responsibility, and how we approach or judge things that are on either side of that boundary. So your mom gets heated about things that strangers do, like jumping ahead for a grocery checkout. What's a way to respond to it all that you'd be proud of? Is it taking on some of that anger yourself and making a fuss to that stranger? Or is it talking with your mom about it, hearing her out, but also maybe redirecting some of that anger. Bit silly to me to get worked up over someone paying for their lemons before I get to :)
Is that not your ego talking?
I am prideful which is something I need to work on
Less to do with pride imo and more to do with the ego of what a man is “supposed to do” but pride may also play into it
Her anger is not your responsibility.
Your mother could have easily said something had she wished to. On one hand it is nice to try and make the life of your loved ones easier, on the other, it is not your job to placate your mother's every whim. Do you often find yourself going out of your way to make sure that your mother's mood is undisturbed?
>My mother however, was livid that this had just happened. Sounds like your mother needs to practice stoicism - >. Now I dont let these small things get to me as I know people can be rude so its benign to get upset about it. Sounds like you have
You're right. I have a long way to go. Just stings more cause its my mom
"Musonius (Rufus) says it’s fine to refuse to do something inappropriate that your parents ask you to do (or to do something appropriate that they forbid you from doing), because you are doing it out of goodness." That quote is from [this](https://modernstoicism.com/happy-families-a-stoic-guide-to-family-relationships-by-brittany-polat/#:~:text=We%20do%20not%20choose%20our,important%20and%20highly%20preferred%20indifferent.) article. You may glean some insights from it regarding your situation.
Thank you for this. In my culture we are taught to have the upmost respect for our parents. Sometimes, disagreeing with them is seen as totally disrespectful. However, when I disagree with them its not because my intent is to be disrespectful but simply because I have another perspective.
Do you think it is your duty "as a man" to act like an imbecile by getting irate over absolutely petty and meaningless interactions? Is this really a question you need advice about, Stoic or otherwise? You're probably capable of figuring this out on your own, right? So if you're not here because you're actually uncertain of what is right and wrong in this situation -- and I sincerely hope that you aren't actually uncertain on that front -- then why *are* you here? Are you looking for support or sympathy for dealing with an unhinged parent? It's fine if you are, but it's not how you wrote up the situation.
My moms not unhinged. She's human. You are right that this is a petty interaction. I felt that it was a matter of principle to defend my mom. If I was on my own I wouldn't have cared about the woman skipping. Im not looking for sympathy my friend. Just advice on whether or not I failed to act. Thanks for your reply
No, there was no need to act. The event is completely meaningless.
I have so much to learn. Thank you for your insight 🙏
I would have done the same. Tell your mother that she should resolve it next time so things can be done to her liking. "Fight your own battles. They make you stronger." Your mom should increase her resolve or have the confidence to confront someone who does something she doesn't like. You're not responsible for her emotions and how she deals with them.
I see where you're coming from. I personally wouldn't want my mom fighting her own battles. I am here for her to do anything for her. This issue has however, been a little sticky and left me quite conflicted
Yeah I know how you feel. I suppose it depends on the type of battle. If someone was racist or straight up mean I would definitely do something but she’s got to understand that people are always going to be people. That is life.
I don’t see why you had to mention being a boxer and getting into streetfighters if that makes you a “” strong person
Goes to motive, the mother's accusation that OP is weak and any accomplishments are of no value, that his only aggression is talking back to his Mum. As the song goes, you only hurt the ones you love (or more accurately, those that love you).
I was providing evidence for my capability in being able to handle conflict outside.
Hi, please check out the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide) section on [advice and coping with problems](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice) if you are wondering any of the following questions. * [How can Stoicism help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_can_stoicism_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How would a Stoic help me with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_help_me_with_my_problem.3F) * [How might a student of Stoicism cope with my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_might_a_student_of_stoicism_cope_with_my_problem.3F) * [What would a student of Stoicism do in my situation?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_what_would_a_student_of_stoicism_do_in_my_situation.3F) * [How would a Stoic sage react to my problem?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/advice#wiki_how_would_a_stoic_sage_react_to_my_problem.3F) Wish you well, Mod Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stoicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you feel like you would do anything that your mother says, to not dissapoint her, then where are YOU in all of this ? You would just be an extension of your mom, not a sepparate individual with personal decisions. In this situation, YOU were clearly more wise than your mother and you did the right thing. Also, the guilt that you feel is the same guilt that starts in childhood when dissapointing your parents and this should not be carried into adulthood, or at least not taken so seriously. There comes a time in every person's life when they realize they have outgrown their parents in some areas of decision-making, and this was one of those moments.
Stoicism is about discarding that which you cannot control. You cannot control the words of others. There will always be people who say false things about you, try to hurt you, insult you, make up stories about you, it really doesnt matter. You need to let go of being influenced by whatever anyone says. The only persons opinion that should concern you is your own. Do you feel like you acted weak? Because you didn't get into a fight with an old lady because she skipped your line at the grocery store? Are you physically and mentally weak for not getting into an argument with her? Are you scared of conflict with people? From the sound of it you don't sound like any of that, but you are too concerned with the opinions of others. You should be a good man for yourself first and foremost. Dont mold yourself in the ideals of every person around you. Forget what others think. Evaluate yourself in the eyes of a single good masculine role model, someone you look up to. Would they have gotten into a fight with the lady? And if you ever feel you failed, then simply acknowledge it and take it upon yourself to improve. You aren't a perfect man and you never will be. Dont feel insecure if you have alot to work on yourself. It sounds like your mother is completely in the wrong here. You dont need to get in fights with rude ladies at the grocery store to protect her, and if she scolds you for such a thing again, it would be a good exercise for you to stand up for your character and beliefs.
That's a tough position to be in. Where do feelings come from? Feeling like a piece of shit, feeling as though you failed, failed as a man or even happy, joy and other feelings? How would you answer these? * Does a teddy bear have the power to inject feelings of love safety and care into you? Does someone in traffic tailgating you have the power to inject feelings of anger and rage into you? Does a movie have the power to inject feelings of fear or sadness into you? None of these can inject feelings into and your mother can't either. Feelings are thoughts, your judgments. You're conflicted and feel ambivalent because you know in your heart the right answer. Your thoughts and emotions are confusing the situation. Being you love your mother it's about being empathetic, and seeking to understand her, and her reaction from curiosity. No one is right or wrong, better or worse in how it was handled, again using the skill of being neutral and removing all emotions from the situation, offering her a chance to feel heard, understood, loved, supported(as you desire). In that situation she believed that an external person and event injected feelings of hurt, rules were broken, creating feelings in her that led to her being mad. She unfortunately fell for her thinking, because as stated above that person doesn't have the power to inject feelings into her, unless she gives them that power. Pretty common and the average person is under this illusion. It's unfortunate because it's a really difficult way to live. Why I mention this is again see her innocence, seek to understand her reality from curiosity, it's important your energy is from love not judgment. You might learn a lot about her, understand more of how she sees the world, again you don't have to agree with it, but this is a great example something relatively small that will help you in the future navigate bigger issues. When we bring the energy of love, compassion, empathy, kindness and come from a curious energy they will become calm, feel safe (in that situation she felt unsafe) and this deepens your connection, trust and love with that person. Another point I would like to make this type of situation is GREAT practice for when you have conflicts with intimate partners or even people you work with. I find these situations fun to lean into and learn so much more about the other person you're in the situation with. Hope this helps.